Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Speaker 1: Andrew McCarthy has been on a long journey. At twenty two,
Speaker 1: he was a rising young movie star with the requisite
Speaker 1: good looks and talent. You know what love is. Love
Speaker 1: is an illusion created by lawyer types like yourself to
Speaker 1: perpetuate another illusion called marriage, to create a reality divorce
Speaker 1: and the the illusionary for divorce ars. After playing a sullen
Speaker 1: writer in sat Almo's Fire, he woke up one morning
Speaker 1: to discover he and his co stars were members of
Speaker 1: something New York magazine called the Brat Pack of Sucks.
Speaker 1: It was news to him, and like it or not,
Speaker 1: from then on he was permanently linked to that cynical
Speaker 1: symbol of eighties self indulgence. Fortunately for us, this was
Speaker 1: only one stop on Andrew McCarthy's journey. McCarthy discovered the
Speaker 1: traveling the world was the perfect antidote to the fame
Speaker 1: and exposure that came with his acting career. He has
Speaker 1: spent much of the last decade writing about his experiences
Speaker 1: in distant and exot lands. He has a book out
Speaker 1: called The Longest Way Home, One Man's Quest for the
Speaker 1: Courage to settle down. Many people travel to escape and disconnect,
Speaker 1: but Andrew McCarthy, who turns fifty later this month, credits
Speaker 1: his solo adventures with ushering him into adulthood. Well I'm
Speaker 1: known from my youth. Yeah, no, not your best movies,
Speaker 1: but I mean you're most well known movies where this
Speaker 1: spade of movies you did when you were a young,
Speaker 1: young leading man. What's it like for you to turn fifty? Well,
Speaker 1: it's on that level. It's a weird thing because though
Speaker 1: that success in those movies of being a boy, to
Speaker 1: find my adulthood. So it's a weird thing to outgrow youth.
Speaker 1: And so if you outgrow the success that came with youth,
Speaker 1: what do you carry forward? So it's an interesting dilemma
Speaker 1: or position. So, I mean, on a personal level, it's
Speaker 1: hard to separate those two things because I'm so much
Speaker 1: an outgood as you are. Suppose you, but you carry
Speaker 1: forward in a more sort of current way. But I'm
Speaker 1: such a result of that kind of early fame. For me,
Speaker 1: I went and did TV, And for you, I would
Speaker 1: say that was there for you too. You took this
Speaker 1: other path. What led you to do that? What led
Speaker 1: you to do what you're doing now in terms of
Speaker 1: its relationship to your acting career, it was a total
Speaker 1: accidental thing. I had no intention of becoming a travel
Speaker 1: writer or you didn't know not. So this wasn't a
Speaker 1: case where you were sitting there and as there's been
Speaker 1: no plan ever at any point. Okay, So when I
Speaker 1: was a young actor, I stumbled into these movies and
Speaker 1: suddenly I'm in the brad Pack and suddenly I'm this
Speaker 1: kind of an actor, which I'm like, well, wait, that's
Speaker 1: not the kind of actor I wanted to be. But
Speaker 1: those were the movies I was in suddenly, and so
Speaker 1: that was my career trajectory, which is interesting because there
Speaker 1: was no hands on the wheel then. Really, I was
Speaker 1: just reacting to situations. So when I didn't get well,
Speaker 1: that was describe how you felt back then. Fame, money, success, movies,
Speaker 1: which are the most intoxicating of a well, movies are
Speaker 1: much more intoxicating and much more um like royalty than
Speaker 1: television is. You know, it's you know, it's it's a movie,
Speaker 1: and movies people relate to differently when you're in movies
Speaker 1: than they do when you're on television. There's a certain
Speaker 1: familiarity on television that people assume, but in movies you're
Speaker 1: there is an awe that people have. I think it's
Speaker 1: dissipated now to some degree because everything is so water
Speaker 1: down and interchangeable. But when we started, particularly you know,
Speaker 1: you did TV when your career was over, and now
Speaker 1: that's not the case at all. So describe how you
Speaker 1: felt when you were I mean, it was a wondrous, wonderful,
Speaker 1: uh confusing time, I think, But again, I didn't have
Speaker 1: any real consciousness of like, okay, I just did a
Speaker 1: movie about a mannequin, Now let me do one about
Speaker 1: a drug addict. I mean, it was just like that
Speaker 1: was what came next. I had a certain desperate quality
Speaker 1: of what you just have to keep going. And and
Speaker 1: those movies, you have to remember, we're not that successful
Speaker 1: at the time, and did weren't respected and sort of
Speaker 1: iconic the where they've become now, only later because I
Speaker 1: think of the cr and people were able to suddenly
Speaker 1: take those movies home, whereas a generation before they couldn't.
Speaker 1: I think that's what made those movies so successful because
Speaker 1: suddenly young people who were the people who are renting
Speaker 1: movies when vhs came to the four in the mid eighties,
Speaker 1: could take us home and watch us ten fifteen times
Speaker 1: and take ownership in a certain way that was never
Speaker 1: possible before. So then you're you're locked in that moment
Speaker 1: in time. Did you feel that those films were a
Speaker 1: genre of film while you were making them, they were
Speaker 1: less um substantive, substantive than some other movies. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: although now you look back and you know they're still
Speaker 1: you know, if you said, we would have been still
Speaker 1: talking about Pretty in Pink years later, yeah, compared it's crazy,
Speaker 1: but they did, you know, they did capture something about
Speaker 1: They took seriously that dilemma of being very self centered
Speaker 1: and young. That was wonderfully important. What was the most
Speaker 1: because you are a very bright guy, and you've always
Speaker 1: seen like a very bright guy on film and very
Speaker 1: thoughtful when you go back and you look it from
Speaker 1: your perspective now you're older, what were the most rewarding
Speaker 1: parts of your career when you were making films, you know,
Speaker 1: when you were younger. Well, I worked with Claude Chevroll
Speaker 1: and a couple of films and France, and that was
Speaker 1: a real powerful experience. I I well, I'd like to
Speaker 1: know your opinion, but I haven't worked for him. Any
Speaker 1: good directors. There are very few good directors, you know,
Speaker 1: And so that was one he was. He just had
Speaker 1: a vision. He had his own vision. He wasn't interested
Speaker 1: in other people's ideas of what his films should be like.
Speaker 1: He had real passion and vision, and he had a
Speaker 1: unique point of view on what film was and what
Speaker 1: his relationship to it was and what he wanted to
Speaker 1: create on screen and what he wanted me to be
Speaker 1: doing in his film. He had a real that sort
Speaker 1: of French or tour kind of this is my film,
Speaker 1: this is what I want you to do. I'm like,
Speaker 1: why do you want me to do it that? Because
Speaker 1: because I prefer And I'm like, okay, you know, And
Speaker 1: he had such and he had such appreciation for me.
Speaker 1: I felt quite appreciated by him. So that allowed me
Speaker 1: to trust him, and he trusted me and enjoyed me.
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of he is afraid
Speaker 1: of actors, so they don't enjoy them, and they don't
Speaker 1: enjoy the process you know that doctors go through. So
Speaker 1: that becomes his adversarial or the best sort of business
Speaker 1: like relationship. Very tense, yeah, but one of my favorite
Speaker 1: moments recently was. I went back and I downloaded on
Speaker 1: my computer the Stanley Kubrick documentary Life and Pictures, and
Speaker 1: there's this wonderful moment and when Matthew Modine says they're
Speaker 1: getting to that part of Kubrick's career where he did
Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket, and Matthew talks about how you know,
Speaker 1: he was walking around angsting over what does Stanley want?
Speaker 1: What does Stanley want? And he said that Kubrick pulled
Speaker 1: up in a car with people like on the way
Speaker 1: to the seting goes, what are you doing, Matthew, And
Speaker 1: he goes, Matthew Modine says, I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what you want. I can't get a grip on what
Speaker 1: it is you want. And he said that Stanley him
Speaker 1: He goes, oh God, no, why don't want you to
Speaker 1: do that? He goes, It's very simple. I want you
Speaker 1: to have a good time. I want you to enjoy yourself.
Speaker 1: But that's giving him such great respect and is doing
Speaker 1: that on the actors that suddenly the active relaxes, and
Speaker 1: when an actors relaxed, they can do which is which
Speaker 1: is an art that I think many directors now a
Speaker 1: don't have the ability to do and be. I feel
Speaker 1: almost resentful that they have to do it, Like the
Speaker 1: biggest directors I've ever worked with, like Mike Nichols, who
Speaker 1: I had a very small role with, But Nichols was
Speaker 1: someone who win that brief time I had with him
Speaker 1: in the movie Working Girl. What I always will love
Speaker 1: was him taking that moment to go, hey, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be okay. Just relax. I picked you for a reason,
Speaker 1: and you're going to do this thing for me, and
Speaker 1: the great ones and the good ones want to do
Speaker 1: whatever it takes to open that channel of communication with
Speaker 1: you so we can get the job done, because we're
Speaker 1: not gonna get it done if you and I aren't
Speaker 1: communicating well. They don't need to exert their power and
Speaker 1: demonstrate that they're in charge in any way. They simply are,
Speaker 1: and then they want to bring out the best in
Speaker 1: you for their own purposes. Other than Chibral, who did
Speaker 1: you like? I like most of them, you know. I
Speaker 1: like talking Ted Koch. I thought Ted was kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: We did Weekend of Bernies together. Ted was kind of
Speaker 1: crazy and screaming in a madman, But I really I
Speaker 1: got that. I enjoyed that he liked me, you know,
Speaker 1: so he'd be screaming and then he just turned and
Speaker 1: wink at me, and I've got you know, I was
Speaker 1: on the inside then. You know, when you feel like
Speaker 1: you're inside and a partner to a director, you will
Speaker 1: do what they want you to do if they make
Speaker 1: you understand, if they empower you to that, and you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like you're in the process. You know. I
Speaker 1: find many directors just stand behind the box because they
Speaker 1: don't really understand actors. They just want them to get
Speaker 1: it done so they can move on and get their
Speaker 1: next shot. And that's just like the hell with you.
Speaker 1: Go stand on your box. I'll get it. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: what about actors? And you've worked with a gallery of
Speaker 1: very well known people, and what were some of them
Speaker 1: that you really it was a joy for you in
Speaker 1: a positive experience to work alongside them. I really liked
Speaker 1: working with John Malkovich. Uh. I just did a very
Speaker 1: small thing with him in a movie called Maholan Falls.
Speaker 1: But I liked watching the way he worked. He had
Speaker 1: no ownership of anything. He just did completely different things
Speaker 1: in each tape. That was fantastic when you do that thing,
Speaker 1: but it was no good technically, and you did something
Speaker 1: else the next time, because that's some movies. It doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: it's the movies. It doesn't matter how Brando esc but
Speaker 1: he had no But that's what's a wonderful thing about
Speaker 1: movie acting. Good movie acting, there's no ownership of the
Speaker 1: moment's passing right by, and you sort of catch it
Speaker 1: as it's flying past. I mean, that's why I think
Speaker 1: good movie actors. I like the ones that don't rehearse.
Speaker 1: I love to hear some theater, but in the movies,
Speaker 1: I never wanted her. So I want to get right
Speaker 1: to the point and then okay, yeah, yeah, Now it's
Speaker 1: roll so that when you jump, there's not look in
Speaker 1: the eye. It's that discovery on camera. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be recreating on cameras. I'll tell you that. What's
Speaker 1: happened to me, and it's only gotten worse as the
Speaker 1: result of doing this television show is that I become
Speaker 1: so technical. That's an asset inis certain way. I know
Speaker 1: lots of actors that are afraid of the technical part
Speaker 1: of movie making, and I think the more an actor
Speaker 1: knows about the technical part of movie making them more.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and when did you start directing ten years ago?
Speaker 1: And why uh, Because I worked with so many bad ones.
Speaker 1: I tell you I just became the older an honest
Speaker 1: answer somewhere. But the older I've gotten more interested I
Speaker 1: am in the whole story, and the less interested I
Speaker 1: am in you know how my hair is? You know
Speaker 1: I'm less. I'm happy to watch someone else do it
Speaker 1: is my faith theory. Now I am Mike. I'm interested
Speaker 1: in producing. Like I'll say that. People say, don't you
Speaker 1: want to beat it? And I go, no, not really, no,
Speaker 1: See I'm not sure I have no interest in producing.
Speaker 1: But the I like the director. I like the idea
Speaker 1: of the whole story and being responsible for that and
Speaker 1: keeping all that in my head. And I like a
Speaker 1: great company together. By the way, too cynical actors, one
Speaker 1: who has no decided to direct, the other desire to douce.
Speaker 1: I could produce your films. Is it cynical? Is it just? Uh? Season?
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the nice word. But I like the
Speaker 1: idea of directing is being something that I'm doing and
Speaker 1: applying all the things that I know and have learned.
Speaker 1: Where is acting? It's still very much me focus, and
Speaker 1: I the older I get, I find self consciousness still
Speaker 1: shrouds me at times, and with directing there's none of that.
Speaker 1: I'm never nervous or anxious when I directing. I never
Speaker 1: have any kind of a sense of internal sort of
Speaker 1: doubts and failings. I'm like, well, this is what I
Speaker 1: have to do. I have to get this shot, have
Speaker 1: to get that. I have to make sure, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a skill that I'm applying, and I've
Speaker 1: worked with a hundred directors, so I know what works
Speaker 1: what doesn't. I know as an actor, when I'm behaving
Speaker 1: in a certain way, it usually means this. So when
Speaker 1: I see an actor behaving that way, I just go
Speaker 1: and go, oh, he doesn't know his lines. Okay, listen, John,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna do the first the first line from
Speaker 1: the setup, and then suddenly he's charming again, you know,
Speaker 1: because you know, I have all those active defenses, so
Speaker 1: I know them when I see them. How are you
Speaker 1: directing women? That's an art? I think, Well, directing women
Speaker 1: is a different thing because it's you know, but largely
Speaker 1: it's flirt and appreciate flirt and appreciate what a sexist thing?
Speaker 1: Have you to say? Well, any time people is feel
Speaker 1: um sexually attractive, they relax, and guys too. If I
Speaker 1: forward with a particular guy and he likes it too,
Speaker 1: but the other guys that guys, I don't for it
Speaker 1: with guys. I just sort of guys more than the women.
Speaker 1: It's less dangerous us a god your hands. But I
Speaker 1: say that too, but then they laugh, and never lacked
Speaker 1: when people laugh. If people laugh, they relax and they
Speaker 1: like you then and then they go, okay. And what
Speaker 1: you did I try and do is I forget who
Speaker 1: taught it to me? Is that I remember Robert Redford
Speaker 1: taught it to me. I did. I worked Sundayance a
Speaker 1: million years ago, and he noticed detail of behavior right away.
Speaker 1: And so when I saw that he noticed my detail
Speaker 1: of behavior, I knew he was paying attention. When I
Speaker 1: act as director to an actor, I will I will
Speaker 1: notice their details, and so then they know he's watching,
Speaker 1: so then they show up. Brando had that great thing,
Speaker 1: and he used to say, you know, and if I
Speaker 1: work with a new director the first day, I'll do
Speaker 1: the real deal and they'll sort of fake it, and
Speaker 1: if he can't tell the difference, I write the movie off.
Speaker 1: But I mean that was small on Brando. He said
Speaker 1: those kind of he was he was a ninja. But
Speaker 1: he also said that great thing that acting is really
Speaker 1: just ultimately this childish kind of behavior that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I have somewhat of an agreement with that
Speaker 1: to a certain way. There's a certain shame I feel.
Speaker 1: If I'm directing and I am auditioning a middle aged
Speaker 1: man and he comes in and reads his scene for me,
Speaker 1: I just feel so embarrassment for them. I just feel
Speaker 1: I hate the hat in hand feeling that actors go through.
Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate being it when I have
Speaker 1: to do it. I hate that hat in hand feeling,
Speaker 1: and I hate when people have to do it for me.
Speaker 1: I just I've recently been doing a lot of press
Speaker 1: for this book, and so I see a lot of
Speaker 1: clips of me when I'm very young. They throw them
Speaker 1: up on the TV, and I see that young, youthful,
Speaker 1: wide eyed passion for it and loving it and loving
Speaker 1: it and the acting maybe dubious, but I mean that
Speaker 1: you couldn't deny or look away from the thrill that
Speaker 1: I'm getting to do this and we're doing it together
Speaker 1: and it's so good. And that was what was attractive
Speaker 1: about what I had to offer when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: Is your passion for acting less Well, it's waxed and
Speaker 1: waned over the years, for sure, and I found you know,
Speaker 1: it's a complicated question for me to answer because if
Speaker 1: I were as successful as I might have wanted to
Speaker 1: be as time has gone on, would it have waned?
Speaker 1: I don't know? Or is it just a mask for disappointment.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, um, when you say if
Speaker 1: you were successful as you wanted, but you were very successful, yes, no,
Speaker 1: I was very successful in my jilin and then as
Speaker 1: time has gone on, I've been I haven't gotten the
Speaker 1: opportunity to do movies and certain things that I would
Speaker 1: have wanted to do. So then my interest is Wayne.
Speaker 1: But would it have Wayne had I been doing those?
Speaker 1: And the question is did you want to? Which came Well,
Speaker 1: that's all that's a that's a bigger question, you know,
Speaker 1: and part of part of me did not. You know,
Speaker 1: you're not doing that because it's a party that didn't
Speaker 1: want And that's been very uh, that's been something I've
Speaker 1: been slow to accept, you know. And but it's a
Speaker 1: good valid point, you know. But again, I was in
Speaker 1: the theater the other day in Ireland. I was just
Speaker 1: there and I watched this Tom Murphy play and I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: I'd like to be playing the part that guy is playing.
Speaker 1: I haven't felt that in years, and I was thrilled
Speaker 1: to feel that again, to feel that, like I, he's
Speaker 1: very good, but I could do that part. And I
Speaker 1: rarely feel that, you know, to feel that kind of
Speaker 1: jazz again. Because so my core and at essence and
Speaker 1: initially what I am and how I locate myself was
Speaker 1: as an actor who someone you really liked directing? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I have only directed up theater stuff. I
Speaker 1: directed Dana Delaney in a Plan, which I thought she
Speaker 1: was a delight, you know. She's I like a nimble
Speaker 1: sort of actor, you know, and I like one that
Speaker 1: actually is interested in direct Yeah. And when I do TV,
Speaker 1: I do a lot of that show Gossip Girl, and
Speaker 1: I particularly like Ed Westwick. I thought he was really
Speaker 1: interested in input and I would suggest things to him
Speaker 1: and he would just take that idea and do the
Speaker 1: idea and then go, oh and then I'll do this,
Speaker 1: and I that's exactly take what I they offer you
Speaker 1: and now just make it and bring you know, don't
Speaker 1: just do what I tell you. Now take it, you know,
Speaker 1: And then create your own thing with it. And I
Speaker 1: like that feeling. You just sort of offer a nudgement
Speaker 1: direction then off they go and they discover it, and
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm a genius, you know. And I just
Speaker 1: like working with the crew, particularly too. I like to
Speaker 1: create more than almost more than any actors working with
Speaker 1: the crew, because if you can engage a crew, they're
Speaker 1: suddenly leaning forward and they're coming to me with ideas.
Speaker 1: It was like the craft service dude suddenly come and go.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really cool when he does that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: so a good idea. I'm glad I thought of that.
Speaker 1: You know, good ideas wherever they come from, you know, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And that was something chevrole taught me because he would
Speaker 1: love an idea from anybody, and he co opted and
Speaker 1: took it as his own. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
Speaker 1: listening to here's the thing. I'm talking with actor Andrew
Speaker 1: McCarthy about what motivated him to leave comfort and safety
Speaker 1: behind and to chronicle his solo travels in his new
Speaker 1: memoir The Longest Way Home, One man's quest for the
Speaker 1: courage to settle down. What's your relationship been to travel
Speaker 1: since you were young. Did your family travel a lot? Now?
Speaker 1: We went I grew up in Jersey. We went down
Speaker 1: the Jersey shore for one week. He structured tax shelters
Speaker 1: and all sorts of various mysterious things, like a bad
Speaker 1: capital guy. I think he's fired that um. But we
Speaker 1: did not travel. Travel came into my life later. But
Speaker 1: when I discovered travel, it was the same thing that
Speaker 1: happened to me when I discovered acting. I discovered acting
Speaker 1: when I was think fifteen. I was in I was
Speaker 1: the artful dodger in Oliver in high school. And that
Speaker 1: changed my life in the way that that Tennessee Williams
Speaker 1: line I misquoting A room that would have always been
Speaker 1: half in the dark was suddenly in the light. That
Speaker 1: kind of that was my experience when I first acted,
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, there I am wow, and
Speaker 1: I've it was done. There was never a discussion would
Speaker 1: I be an actor? There was no thought, there was
Speaker 1: no nothing that that was what was happening to me.
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. And I had no idea how
Speaker 1: it would happen. I just sort of knew that it
Speaker 1: would happen. And then I'd go to college sort of
Speaker 1: and then i'd be in the movies, and that's what happened.
Speaker 1: There was no plan after that, but that's where I
Speaker 1: got into trouble. But and when I began to travel,
Speaker 1: it was a similar sensation of not travel for work,
Speaker 1: which is an entirely different insulated experience of getting picked
Speaker 1: off going on, and that's never enjoying or experience I
Speaker 1: always did. I loved being away, you know, in locations
Speaker 1: and things, but I mean travel to he was not
Speaker 1: vacation and not to sort of work. Traveled to me
Speaker 1: is sort of something you go do alone and you
Speaker 1: go off into the world and you make yourself vulnerable
Speaker 1: into the world. It's not going to the spot. Well.
Speaker 1: I the first time I traveled to change my life
Speaker 1: in the same way that acting did. I walked across
Speaker 1: the Camino to Santiago in Spain. It's five miles across
Speaker 1: the north of Spain, and I was like, I'd never
Speaker 1: hiped that, never backpacked. I read a book about it,
Speaker 1: and suddenly I went and did it, and something just
Speaker 1: told me to do that, and so I went and
Speaker 1: did it, and that changed my life. That sort of
Speaker 1: I've located with myself. Those three was twenty years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so that changed my life doing that, and I
Speaker 1: felt myself again, if in a full way, in the
Speaker 1: way that I had stopped, felt less and less in
Speaker 1: diminishing returns in acting. And what happened to you on
Speaker 1: that trip, Well, I just sort of had one of
Speaker 1: those comical classic breakdowns where I had a weeping fit
Speaker 1: in the field of weed and sort of in the
Speaker 1: moment of clarity, discovered I was ruled by fear, really,
Speaker 1: and that fear had been so dominating my life, which
Speaker 1: was such a is a strange thing for an actor
Speaker 1: and someone who's very public and all that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff and that, and so the minute you're aware of something,
Speaker 1: it begins to change. And so that's that's sorted to
Speaker 1: change for me. And so I traveled more and between jobs.
Speaker 1: So if I didn't have a job by say November,
Speaker 1: you know you're not going to get one before Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: and Christmas. So those last two months of every year,
Speaker 1: I would go travel. I'd go down to Southeast Asia,
Speaker 1: I'd go to Africa, like, buy a ticket into Cape
Speaker 1: Town and a ticket for two months later. Yourself, did
Speaker 1: you travel with someone alone? I would always go see
Speaker 1: that the way you said, oh, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we'll you no. No. If I travel with you, we're
Speaker 1: gonna have a nice experience. We're gonna have fun, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna have our experience of each other and there's
Speaker 1: a certain safety, you know, illusionary maybe, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: have a feeling of safety and camaraderie. By design, you
Speaker 1: do it alone. But the design I did it alone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think you alone? I do yeah now mostly
Speaker 1: for almost always for writing assignments. But I rarely get
Speaker 1: to travel the way I did then because I have kids,
Speaker 1: and so you can't travel for two months alone. Just
Speaker 1: wondering how many kids do you have to how old
Speaker 1: the pen? And six? Do you really traveling? Now? So? So,
Speaker 1: where where you went across the Camino in Spain twenty
Speaker 1: years ago? You had a ten year period before you
Speaker 1: had children. Were you traveling? Was at a very aggressive
Speaker 1: time you were traveling? Yeah? Very much so? And what
Speaker 1: are some of the more memorial Pick two, let's say,
Speaker 1: like the Camino which was followed. I followed a girl
Speaker 1: down to Singapore. I knew her here and she worked
Speaker 1: out in Singapore, and she said, don't you come down
Speaker 1: and you know, visit me in Singapore, and I could
Speaker 1: read between the lines. So I went down to Singapore
Speaker 1: for a very nice weekend. And then someone said, while
Speaker 1: you're going to Singapore, while you're in that part of
Speaker 1: the world, you want to go to, uh Anchor Watt
Speaker 1: And I was like, Anchor Wow, what's that's Anchor Wat? Okay?
Speaker 1: And so I went to Anchor Wat. You know, you
Speaker 1: hear people talk all the time about, oh, you should
Speaker 1: have been there twenty years ago. You know, I was
Speaker 1: at Anchor twenty years ago. Should have been there twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, it was like, so that was a
Speaker 1: big boutique now for the old and so that's you've
Speaker 1: been there obviously. Why was that a great trip? I
Speaker 1: was just one of those things where I just stepped
Speaker 1: out into the world and the world meets you. You know,
Speaker 1: you go make yourself vulnerable to the world, and the
Speaker 1: world sort of receives you. That's my experience. You know,
Speaker 1: the world is a much safer, more welcoming place than
Speaker 1: we are led to believe by our politicians. And uh
Speaker 1: so that has been my that's been my discovery. And
Speaker 1: I find when you ask for help, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: that guy in New York at home where I will
Speaker 1: never ask for directions. I'm like, don't turn on the GPS.
Speaker 1: We'll find it. We'll find it. I'm fine, you know.
Speaker 1: But when I travel, the first thing I do is
Speaker 1: I go, Hi, can can you help me? And the
Speaker 1: minute you say can you help me? You are you go,
Speaker 1: You shrink back to being a right sized you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. You make yourself vulnerable to the world.
Speaker 1: And that is a good thing in my opinion, and
Speaker 1: the more I sort of so it's a weird empowering thing.
Speaker 1: I I ran from acting because I felt vulnerable, and
Speaker 1: yet I go out into the world and I feel vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I opened myself up and feel vulnerable in a more
Speaker 1: powerful way. You know. That's an authentic sort of vulnerability,
Speaker 1: in the way that connects me to you, you know,
Speaker 1: And so that is of interest to me. And so
Speaker 1: anyway traveled to change my life in that way. So
Speaker 1: then I vently just started writing about it. When when
Speaker 1: did that begin? Well? I I tried to keep a journal,
Speaker 1: and I thought, and I was not good at journaling.
Speaker 1: Journaling was seemed to me silly and self indulgent, and
Speaker 1: it was just stupid. I read it and I was
Speaker 1: embarrassed by my journals. But I met a guy, you know,
Speaker 1: one time, a kid. I was in hand Or Saigon,
Speaker 1: and this kid pulled up and wanted to give me
Speaker 1: ride on his scooter. And so I spent the day
Speaker 1: with him on the back of the scooter, going around
Speaker 1: and gave me a tour. And I went back to
Speaker 1: my hotel and wrote it down, because you know, when
Speaker 1: you're traveling alone, particularly very untethered, and so writing sort
Speaker 1: of grounded me in a certain way. I just I
Speaker 1: didn't know that, but when I did it, I went,
Speaker 1: I feel better now. And so I wrote the scene
Speaker 1: of what happened, and it captured my trip in a
Speaker 1: certain way, and it was very personal to me. And
Speaker 1: so I did that for like ten years. I would
Speaker 1: just write the stuff. I'd come home, I throat in
Speaker 1: a drawer and I'd forget about it and then, you know,
Speaker 1: continue acting in all this. But when when I traveled,
Speaker 1: I would write this stuff down of my encounters with people.
Speaker 1: And I was an actor, so I know scenes. I
Speaker 1: know dialogue. I know good I've said so much bad dialogue.
Speaker 1: I know good dialogue when I hear it. So i'd
Speaker 1: hear a good quote I'd write it down and then
Speaker 1: eventually I kind of so, but none of the magazines
Speaker 1: are travel. Stuff I'm reading is capturing the personal experience
Speaker 1: that I'm having. I could do this. And so I
Speaker 1: met a name did not know they're writing about places
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I'm like, that's not what traveler travels
Speaker 1: and why would you describe their angle? What were they trying? Yeah?
Speaker 1: In essence, And so I was found travel much more internal, personal,
Speaker 1: private experience. And you know, I think did a lot
Speaker 1: of literature from people who books really changed my life.
Speaker 1: His notion that you know, go go far, go alonge,
Speaker 1: don't come back for a long time, I found inspiring
Speaker 1: and absolutely correct. And so that notion I think he said,
Speaker 1: you know, travel, any kind of good travel erture is
Speaker 1: ultimately about the traveler and not the destination. And so
Speaker 1: that's what interested me, and how the universal things that
Speaker 1: were happening to me when I would talk about the
Speaker 1: emotional kind of things that were happening to be traveling,
Speaker 1: when I would communicate that to a person to go, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really yeah, I feel that way or and so
Speaker 1: that is what's of interest. You're trying to find that
Speaker 1: moment of connection and identification with somebody not talking about
Speaker 1: a place. And so I started writing for magazines about that.
Speaker 1: When did that premiere? What was the first one that
Speaker 1: we four? I wrote my Yeah, like eight years ago,
Speaker 1: the National Geographic Traveler magazine. Yeah, I met the editor.
Speaker 1: I knew somebody knew him. I met. I asked to
Speaker 1: meet him and we met in a bar in the
Speaker 1: East village and I said, you know, you let me
Speaker 1: write for your magazine and he said, you're an active dude.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but I know how to travel and
Speaker 1: I know how to tell a story because that's what
Speaker 1: I do. And nothing I'm reading is capturing the essence
Speaker 1: of why we travel. Nothing and so nothing that I
Speaker 1: was reading and so so he said that's a good answer.
Speaker 1: And uh, after a year or so, he said, this
Speaker 1: is you know, a while ago, after a year of
Speaker 1: cajoling and pressuring him, emailing, badgering him, he sent me
Speaker 1: for a story. I said, look, if it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: just don't pay me. And he said, yeah, okay, I
Speaker 1: can do that. So I wrote it. I went to
Speaker 1: Ireland and I wrote a story and you know, it worked.
Speaker 1: And don't tell people in the movie business that it doesn't.
Speaker 1: But again it was the same kind of thing that acting.
Speaker 1: I want to do this. I don't know why. It
Speaker 1: just touches something in me. It's I feel like me
Speaker 1: when I do it. That's what I most like in
Speaker 1: the world is feeling like myself. So I want to
Speaker 1: do that, And so it worked out. I did another one.
Speaker 1: I did another one. Then he was like, I kept
Speaker 1: bombarding him with you know, pitches and things, and because
Speaker 1: look here, talk to these other people, go bother them.
Speaker 1: And so I did that. And I also knew in
Speaker 1: a way that I didn't when I was acting that
Speaker 1: I wanted by the time I was sort of outed
Speaker 1: as being wait, the guy from Pretty in Pink's a
Speaker 1: travel writer. By the time I was outed for that,
Speaker 1: I wanted to have written for a lot of good publications,
Speaker 1: so they I wasn't easily dismissed. Did you find that
Speaker 1: there was any sense of people, uh, playing that with you?
Speaker 1: The guy from Pretty in Pink as a travel writer?
Speaker 1: Not initially because most of it's done by email. I
Speaker 1: didn't meet many editors and so I'm just writing. And
Speaker 1: then finally a magazine I wrote for New and they
Speaker 1: when the magazine came out, they said, we sent Andrew Bratt, Packer,
Speaker 1: Andrew McCarthy and Ethiopian. He got arrested, read about it
Speaker 1: in Norman scene. I got arrested writing the story, and
Speaker 1: so it was a good lead, so I put it
Speaker 1: in the story, and so then I was suddenly my
Speaker 1: two worlds collided. But by then I'd written for you know,
Speaker 1: the New York Times, The Atlantic, the National Geographics. So
Speaker 1: I had a stable body work under me where I
Speaker 1: wasn't so quickly dismissed. But yes, to answer your question,
Speaker 1: I still encounter it all the time, people going thinking
Speaker 1: I'm some kind of interloper or dilettante. But I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting as much as anyone I've met in this business.
Speaker 1: And I've only met you a handful of times. You're
Speaker 1: someone who whatever people want to say your persona is
Speaker 1: from those films, You're so different in person from your
Speaker 1: persona in those funder and where where those where those
Speaker 1: films are what's the word high concept? I mean all
Speaker 1: those platforms are very high concept and very amorphous kind
Speaker 1: of and the characters are everybody's doing anything. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean aspect a personality I said very much suited me,
Speaker 1: which is why I was successful in them. And yet
Speaker 1: I mean, would anybody want to be labeled forever? Is
Speaker 1: what they did when they were twenty one years old
Speaker 1: and change? It's not that even mind, It's just it
Speaker 1: catches people unawares. They didn't know they'd locked me in
Speaker 1: that box. And then I meet them. You're when met
Speaker 1: in person, you're every inch of person who I would
Speaker 1: give a contract to write for a magazine and have
Speaker 1: direct my TV show with my movie. So usually when
Speaker 1: I meet people, they get over it quickly, and if
Speaker 1: they don't, it's usually their insecurity and their problem. And
Speaker 1: I can recognize that very quickly as you you know,
Speaker 1: you can very And so life is too short and
Speaker 1: I go elsewhere do you find that this is the
Speaker 1: role where you're out there and it's a bit of
Speaker 1: a public thing for you, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: you're out there, come one. But I found it. You
Speaker 1: like this role. It's much less a role than well,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting about a role. It's not like, well,
Speaker 1: it's more just me. Um, that's people. I've been doing
Speaker 1: out a publicity for this book and people say, what's
Speaker 1: the difference between doing publicity for your book and you know,
Speaker 1: movie published or junket, I go a movie junket or
Speaker 1: any kind of movie published her television acting publicity, you're
Speaker 1: presenting still you're behind it, and you're talking about the
Speaker 1: role when you're you're a certain you're adopting a certain persona.
Speaker 1: Whereas it where when you're I'm talking about this book
Speaker 1: that I'm written, it's much more just like as a
Speaker 1: friend of mine says, well, you've written a memoir and
Speaker 1: now your ass is hanging out. I mean it's just
Speaker 1: me and I'm sort of being the book, which is
Speaker 1: very open in a certain way. So I find it
Speaker 1: much more vulnerable. You think yours is hanging out with
Speaker 1: this book, Yeah, much more so than certainly with acting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the book is much more sort of memoir
Speaker 1: than travel book. It's much more sort of that internal
Speaker 1: journey that happens when we travel, as opposed to the external.
Speaker 1: But you don't feel that writer is a role you're
Speaker 1: playing now, you don't. You don't look at as a
Speaker 1: role you're playing the role of writer. I found I
Speaker 1: found writing a relief when I found it because I
Speaker 1: felt like I was you know what what? So I
Speaker 1: don't particularly feel like it's a role I feel that
Speaker 1: certain similarity in acting towards In acting you have a
Speaker 1: certain skill tool chest, and in writing you have also
Speaker 1: a certain tool chest um that you need to apply
Speaker 1: to create what you want to create. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I have more of a one and acting because
Speaker 1: I've done it longer. So you know inspirations, you know
Speaker 1: inspiration and acting happens very rarely. Most of the time
Speaker 1: you're laying brick. So but the reason I asked this
Speaker 1: is because when the acting thing, which is also just
Speaker 1: you know what we ended up doing, when you do
Speaker 1: that and it works well, it feels a certain way,
Speaker 1: and then it's a great feeling, and then it was
Speaker 1: a similar feeling when I write something. I was gonna
Speaker 1: say sense, and I don't know where that sense is
Speaker 1: gonna end, and I'm typing and I don't know where
Speaker 1: the sin is gonna end. There there it is. That's
Speaker 1: a thrill. So I get when you're now a close
Speaker 1: up and that moment happens in the coast up between it.
Speaker 1: So when what I guess what I'm asking is, is
Speaker 1: this where you are more reliably getting that thrill than
Speaker 1: you did from acting? Can you count on this more
Speaker 1: to give you the at least the opportunity for that thrill. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm getting received at it in uh are quite well,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, more so than I am in acting
Speaker 1: in a certain way. So I'm that's where my jazz
Speaker 1: is coming from now because I'm getting the opportunity. And
Speaker 1: it's also something I can create my own opportunity here
Speaker 1: with the writing because I just do it, and because
Speaker 1: I've been successful at it, I'm getting more opportunity to
Speaker 1: do it. Or is acting you know, you're waiting for
Speaker 1: somebody to give you the chance to do it. But
Speaker 1: it's also the moment of connection that you have, Like
Speaker 1: we're having a conversation and suddenly it sparks and we
Speaker 1: feel connected and ah, and so you have that human
Speaker 1: instant um for you. Uh do you feel like tomorrow
Speaker 1: there's a great well maybe I was acting still alive
Speaker 1: for you so much so. I mean, but like we
Speaker 1: just said, I I suppose the jazz is coming from
Speaker 1: writing because that's where the opportunity is coming him. But
Speaker 1: I in a certain way, the it doesn't matter, they're
Speaker 1: the same thing because what you're talking about and what
Speaker 1: I feel I need to sort of I hate the word,
Speaker 1: but like create every day. It doesn't even have to
Speaker 1: be good creativity or bad creative. I have to feel
Speaker 1: in essence. That's how I locate myself by employing creativity
Speaker 1: in my life. I mean, I don't lay bricks, I
Speaker 1: don't turn widgets. That's how I That's what I do.
Speaker 1: That's how who I am. And so that's how I
Speaker 1: find myself. And so I need to I find If
Speaker 1: I can do that every day, then I'm I'm in
Speaker 1: a better mood, you know. And it again, it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be good or something anybody sees. But and
Speaker 1: so writing is one of those things where I can
Speaker 1: do that, you know, on a regular basis that is
Speaker 1: cumulative and feel substantive and feels like I've spent my time. Well,
Speaker 1: So describe for people, if you would, one observation or
Speaker 1: one instance of where your ass is hanging out in
Speaker 1: the book. What was something you wanted to deal with
Speaker 1: in the book and talk about in the book that
Speaker 1: was important to you to communicate to readers. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I suppose I wanted to just communicate the humanness and
Speaker 1: like I wasn't writing specifically how this is what I
Speaker 1: felt and why I you know, I the books that
Speaker 1: odd paradox. I The books really about trying to come
Speaker 1: to terms with someone that I loved and to get
Speaker 1: married by leaving and going as far away from them
Speaker 1: as I could possibly get. That's what the book of
Speaker 1: the essence of the book is, how do we find
Speaker 1: intimacy with people and yet still maintain our own singularity?
Speaker 1: And have you succeeded to that? Well, you know the
Speaker 1: day of time. Um, But I mean it's something I
Speaker 1: hadn't read about, and it's something I hadn't seen people
Speaker 1: grappling with. And I'm very sort of singular and solitary
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and yet I love now
Speaker 1: my wife and my kids desperately in a painful way.
Speaker 1: And how do you reconcile those two things? And I
Speaker 1: wanted to find an answer for that as much as
Speaker 1: I could. At least I want to put the question
Speaker 1: on the table and go, this exists for me, maybe
Speaker 1: it exists for other people too. Where I hate you,
Speaker 1: how much I love you? How am I going to
Speaker 1: reconcile that? With me wanting to? I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's neat, but it's how much I love you, how
Speaker 1: much I'm making myself vulnerable to be slammed by you,
Speaker 1: And yet that's the only game in town. I have
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, let you could stab me here and
Speaker 1: and but that's the only viable game in town. And
Speaker 1: how does someone who desperately wants to run away deal
Speaker 1: with that? And knowing that's the only game in town.
Speaker 1: So so it was just a conflict and sort of
Speaker 1: push pull that I wanted to wrangle with. And so
Speaker 1: to to wrangle with that, I had to expose my
Speaker 1: self and do Dad, what did your wife think about
Speaker 1: the book? She like that would ended. You know, we
Speaker 1: got married. I mean, but she knows who I am,
Speaker 1: and so she knew it. She knew it all before
Speaker 1: she heard. And you know, when you're writing that great print,
Speaker 1: well it's different, it's different, and everything is different in print.
Speaker 1: You know that grain show Dannian line. I'm mis quoting that.
Speaker 1: Um she said. You know, I write to know what
Speaker 1: I'm thinking. You know, I've said that I travel to
Speaker 1: find out what I'm feeling, and I write to figure
Speaker 1: it out again. But when you, like you said, when
Speaker 1: you see something in print, it's very different. I write
Speaker 1: in the book a lot about my relationship with my father,
Speaker 1: which surprised me I didn't know I was going to
Speaker 1: be writing about that and then constantly being being a
Speaker 1: son and being a father, and my relationship with my
Speaker 1: father was not great or close. He is, yeah, and
Speaker 1: has it? Is it better? It's which has an amicable
Speaker 1: distance and affection now that it didn't have. You know,
Speaker 1: I was afraid of my father very much, and then
Speaker 1: of three brothers, so there were four boys, and now
Speaker 1: we have I have great affection for him. We're not
Speaker 1: particularly close in any way, but and I feel that lack.
Speaker 1: I feel that that did you say that in the book? Yes?
Speaker 1: How did he respond to that? I don't know that
Speaker 1: he's read it, But I found the writing of the
Speaker 1: book made me feel more affectionate towards my father in
Speaker 1: a certain way, and that it's in print, and it
Speaker 1: dissolved a lot of this sort of stress between us
Speaker 1: on my part. Anyway. Again, I don't know what his
Speaker 1: reaction is. I find that for me, you know, I
Speaker 1: have a child, and aside from my specific relationship with her,
Speaker 1: just parenting in general. The great reality is that you
Speaker 1: look and see what the boundaries and the nature was
Speaker 1: of your own relationship with your parents, and therefore you
Speaker 1: must accept that the same as true in their eyes.
Speaker 1: But at least now I look at like my mother,
Speaker 1: I understand her better. You know, it's similar to your dad.
Speaker 1: I look at my mom and I go, well, she
Speaker 1: was this way in this way, and she was an
Speaker 1: animal trainer with four sons and two daughters. I get it.
Speaker 1: I understand her. I mean I heard someone would say,
Speaker 1: you know, I was an event in my parents life.
Speaker 1: I wasn't the event. I don't. Wow, that makes you know?
Speaker 1: But yes, I have this idea of how I think
Speaker 1: my son and my relationship is in my daughter. My
Speaker 1: it is still with my daughter because she's only six,
Speaker 1: but my son is becoming he's ten now and he's
Speaker 1: becoming cool. And I went up to his classroom today
Speaker 1: and he was mortified that I came up to his
Speaker 1: card dad, what are you doing here? Get out of here?
Speaker 1: And got a book again. I'm I'm already, I'm something
Speaker 1: he's embarrassed of already, and I'm like, wow, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: starting to happen. But interestingly, my son. I always tried
Speaker 1: to protect my kids from this acting person and people
Speaker 1: come up to me for an autographer. I have a
Speaker 1: picture taker, and I would always kind of say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm with my family, right, I'd rather not if you
Speaker 1: don't mind. Where's other times I'd be fine too. And
Speaker 1: this summer we were in Wyoming camping family camping tip.
Speaker 1: But we're in a diner and I was with my
Speaker 1: son and the woman comes up to me and the
Speaker 1: waitress and she says, are you from the mannequin Mike? Yeah? Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: And so suddenly it's big news in the diner that
Speaker 1: they go and weekend at Bernie's, and you know, so
Speaker 1: there's no where to ron and I. We take our
Speaker 1: pictures and saw on our autographs and have the chats,
Speaker 1: and my son is sitting here next to me the
Speaker 1: whole time. And I turned to him afterward, I said, Sam,
Speaker 1: how did that? How did that make you feel that
Speaker 1: you know? And how is that for you? I said, Oh, Dad,
Speaker 1: I was so proud, and I got tears in my eyes.
Speaker 1: I realized I've done everything wrong trying to protect my
Speaker 1: kids from this, because I thought I should be protecting
Speaker 1: him so he wouldn't resent it or think of something
Speaker 1: he's different than other kids, or his dad's even weird.
Speaker 1: But he just saw a certain part of me that
Speaker 1: I hadn't that I withheld from him that was very
Speaker 1: important part of me that I shouldn't have been withholding
Speaker 1: all this not So it's interesting. I mean, you think
Speaker 1: you're doing all these kind of things and who the
Speaker 1: hell knows? The last thing I want to ask you is, um,
Speaker 1: you said it's not it's the journey and not the destination.
Speaker 1: And would you say that you are I don't. I
Speaker 1: hate this word, But would you say that you're content
Speaker 1: and you're happy where you are? Now? Uh? Interesting? I'm
Speaker 1: you know, the director me is always going what's next?
Speaker 1: What's next? The shot is good? But what shot am
Speaker 1: I doing next? So? I I love the travel writing.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed having to bring this book forth, you know,
Speaker 1: and creating that that was the next change. But I'm
Speaker 1: always sort of looking for what's the next sort of
Speaker 1: challenge to do and what's the next thing to do?
Speaker 1: I mean content, my content? You know, I don't. I'd
Speaker 1: be hard pressed to say I've kept them separate, for
Speaker 1: I think I've had so many disappointments and so much
Speaker 1: baggage involved with acting, and I know what happens to
Speaker 1: screenplay so much that I haven't done that at all yet. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm too protective of my words, you know,
Speaker 1: in a certain way, to have them just ravaged like
Speaker 1: that without care. Uhre books, Well, yeah, I have another
Speaker 1: idea for another book. I have a novel that I've
Speaker 1: almost finished that there's more I'd like to do, and
Speaker 1: there there's more i'd like to do acting again, you know.
Speaker 1: I said that sort of come back into my life
Speaker 1: in a way of desire again. So but I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say content, no, but I'm pleased to feel sort of
Speaker 1: vital in myself in a certain way. Andrew McCarthy. His
Speaker 1: book is called The Longest Way Home, One Man's Quest
Speaker 1: for the Courage to settle down. Now next month you
Speaker 1: can see him in his latest project, a movie called
Speaker 1: Christmas Dance. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing