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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

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Speaker 1: Andrew McCarthy has been on a long journey. At twenty two,

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Speaker 1: he was a rising young movie star with the requisite

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Speaker 1: good looks and talent. You know what love is. Love

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Speaker 1: is an illusion created by lawyer types like yourself to

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Speaker 1: perpetuate another illusion called marriage, to create a reality divorce

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Speaker 1: and the the illusionary for divorce ars. After playing a sullen

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Speaker 1: writer in sat Almo's Fire, he woke up one morning

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Speaker 1: to discover he and his co stars were members of

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Speaker 1: something New York magazine called the Brat Pack of Sucks.

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Speaker 1: It was news to him, and like it or not,

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Speaker 1: from then on he was permanently linked to that cynical

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Speaker 1: symbol of eighties self indulgence. Fortunately for us, this was

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Speaker 1: only one stop on Andrew McCarthy's journey. McCarthy discovered the

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Speaker 1: traveling the world was the perfect antidote to the fame

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Speaker 1: and exposure that came with his acting career. He has

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Speaker 1: spent much of the last decade writing about his experiences

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Speaker 1: in distant and exot lands. He has a book out

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Speaker 1: called The Longest Way Home, One Man's Quest for the

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Speaker 1: Courage to settle down. Many people travel to escape and disconnect,

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Speaker 1: but Andrew McCarthy, who turns fifty later this month, credits

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Speaker 1: his solo adventures with ushering him into adulthood. Well I'm

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Speaker 1: known from my youth. Yeah, no, not your best movies,

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Speaker 1: but I mean you're most well known movies where this

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Speaker 1: spade of movies you did when you were a young,

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Speaker 1: young leading man. What's it like for you to turn fifty? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's on that level. It's a weird thing because though

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Speaker 1: that success in those movies of being a boy, to

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Speaker 1: find my adulthood. So it's a weird thing to outgrow youth.

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Speaker 1: And so if you outgrow the success that came with youth,

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Speaker 1: what do you carry forward? So it's an interesting dilemma

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Speaker 1: or position. So, I mean, on a personal level, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to separate those two things because I'm so much

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Speaker 1: an outgood as you are. Suppose you, but you carry

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Speaker 1: forward in a more sort of current way. But I'm

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Speaker 1: such a result of that kind of early fame. For me,

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Speaker 1: I went and did TV, And for you, I would

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Speaker 1: say that was there for you too. You took this

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Speaker 1: other path. What led you to do that? What led

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Speaker 1: you to do what you're doing now in terms of

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Speaker 1: its relationship to your acting career, it was a total

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Speaker 1: accidental thing. I had no intention of becoming a travel

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Speaker 1: writer or you didn't know not. So this wasn't a

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Speaker 1: case where you were sitting there and as there's been

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Speaker 1: no plan ever at any point. Okay, So when I

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Speaker 1: was a young actor, I stumbled into these movies and

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Speaker 1: suddenly I'm in the brad Pack and suddenly I'm this

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Speaker 1: kind of an actor, which I'm like, well, wait, that's

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Speaker 1: not the kind of actor I wanted to be. But

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Speaker 1: those were the movies I was in suddenly, and so

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Speaker 1: that was my career trajectory, which is interesting because there

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Speaker 1: was no hands on the wheel then. Really, I was

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Speaker 1: just reacting to situations. So when I didn't get well,

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Speaker 1: that was describe how you felt back then. Fame, money, success, movies,

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Speaker 1: which are the most intoxicating of a well, movies are

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Speaker 1: much more intoxicating and much more um like royalty than

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Speaker 1: television is. You know, it's you know, it's it's a movie,

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Speaker 1: and movies people relate to differently when you're in movies

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Speaker 1: than they do when you're on television. There's a certain

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Speaker 1: familiarity on television that people assume, but in movies you're

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Speaker 1: there is an awe that people have. I think it's

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Speaker 1: dissipated now to some degree because everything is so water

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Speaker 1: down and interchangeable. But when we started, particularly you know,

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Speaker 1: you did TV when your career was over, and now

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Speaker 1: that's not the case at all. So describe how you

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Speaker 1: felt when you were I mean, it was a wondrous, wonderful,

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Speaker 1: uh confusing time, I think, But again, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: any real consciousness of like, okay, I just did a

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Speaker 1: movie about a mannequin, Now let me do one about

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Speaker 1: a drug addict. I mean, it was just like that

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Speaker 1: was what came next. I had a certain desperate quality

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Speaker 1: of what you just have to keep going. And and

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Speaker 1: those movies, you have to remember, we're not that successful

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Speaker 1: at the time, and did weren't respected and sort of

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Speaker 1: iconic the where they've become now, only later because I

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Speaker 1: think of the cr and people were able to suddenly

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Speaker 1: take those movies home, whereas a generation before they couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what made those movies so successful because

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Speaker 1: suddenly young people who were the people who are renting

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Speaker 1: movies when vhs came to the four in the mid eighties,

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Speaker 1: could take us home and watch us ten fifteen times

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Speaker 1: and take ownership in a certain way that was never

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Speaker 1: possible before. So then you're you're locked in that moment

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Speaker 1: in time. Did you feel that those films were a

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Speaker 1: genre of film while you were making them, they were

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Speaker 1: less um substantive, substantive than some other movies. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: although now you look back and you know they're still

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Speaker 1: you know, if you said, we would have been still

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Speaker 1: talking about Pretty in Pink years later, yeah, compared it's crazy,

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Speaker 1: but they did, you know, they did capture something about

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Speaker 1: They took seriously that dilemma of being very self centered

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Speaker 1: and young. That was wonderfully important. What was the most

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Speaker 1: because you are a very bright guy, and you've always

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Speaker 1: seen like a very bright guy on film and very

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Speaker 1: thoughtful when you go back and you look it from

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Speaker 1: your perspective now you're older, what were the most rewarding

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Speaker 1: parts of your career when you were making films, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you were younger. Well, I worked with Claude Chevroll

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Speaker 1: and a couple of films and France, and that was

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Speaker 1: a real powerful experience. I I well, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: know your opinion, but I haven't worked for him. Any

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Speaker 1: good directors. There are very few good directors, you know,

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Speaker 1: And so that was one he was. He just had

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Speaker 1: a vision. He had his own vision. He wasn't interested

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Speaker 1: in other people's ideas of what his films should be like.

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Speaker 1: He had real passion and vision, and he had a

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Speaker 1: unique point of view on what film was and what

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Speaker 1: his relationship to it was and what he wanted to

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Speaker 1: create on screen and what he wanted me to be

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Speaker 1: doing in his film. He had a real that sort

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Speaker 1: of French or tour kind of this is my film,

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Speaker 1: this is what I want you to do. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: why do you want me to do it that? Because

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Speaker 1: because I prefer And I'm like, okay, you know, And

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Speaker 1: he had such and he had such appreciation for me.

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Speaker 1: I felt quite appreciated by him. So that allowed me

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Speaker 1: to trust him, and he trusted me and enjoyed me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of he is afraid

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Speaker 1: of actors, so they don't enjoy them, and they don't

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Speaker 1: enjoy the process you know that doctors go through. So

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Speaker 1: that becomes his adversarial or the best sort of business

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Speaker 1: like relationship. Very tense, yeah, but one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: moments recently was. I went back and I downloaded on

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Speaker 1: my computer the Stanley Kubrick documentary Life and Pictures, and

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Speaker 1: there's this wonderful moment and when Matthew Modine says they're

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Speaker 1: getting to that part of Kubrick's career where he did

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Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket, and Matthew talks about how you know,

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Speaker 1: he was walking around angsting over what does Stanley want?

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Speaker 1: What does Stanley want? And he said that Kubrick pulled

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Speaker 1: up in a car with people like on the way

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Speaker 1: to the seting goes, what are you doing, Matthew, And

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Speaker 1: he goes, Matthew Modine says, I'm trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what you want. I can't get a grip on what

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Speaker 1: it is you want. And he said that Stanley him

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Speaker 1: He goes, oh God, no, why don't want you to

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Speaker 1: do that? He goes, It's very simple. I want you

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Speaker 1: to have a good time. I want you to enjoy yourself.

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Speaker 1: But that's giving him such great respect and is doing

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Speaker 1: that on the actors that suddenly the active relaxes, and

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Speaker 1: when an actors relaxed, they can do which is which

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Speaker 1: is an art that I think many directors now a

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Speaker 1: don't have the ability to do and be. I feel

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Speaker 1: almost resentful that they have to do it, Like the

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Speaker 1: biggest directors I've ever worked with, like Mike Nichols, who

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Speaker 1: I had a very small role with, But Nichols was

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Speaker 1: someone who win that brief time I had with him

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Speaker 1: in the movie Working Girl. What I always will love

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Speaker 1: was him taking that moment to go, hey, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be okay. Just relax. I picked you for a reason,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to do this thing for me, and

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Speaker 1: the great ones and the good ones want to do

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Speaker 1: whatever it takes to open that channel of communication with

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Speaker 1: you so we can get the job done, because we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna get it done if you and I aren't

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Speaker 1: communicating well. They don't need to exert their power and

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Speaker 1: demonstrate that they're in charge in any way. They simply are,

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Speaker 1: and then they want to bring out the best in

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Speaker 1: you for their own purposes. Other than Chibral, who did

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Speaker 1: you like? I like most of them, you know. I

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Speaker 1: like talking Ted Koch. I thought Ted was kind of crazy.

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Speaker 1: We did Weekend of Bernies together. Ted was kind of

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Speaker 1: crazy and screaming in a madman, But I really I

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Speaker 1: got that. I enjoyed that he liked me, you know,

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Speaker 1: so he'd be screaming and then he just turned and

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Speaker 1: wink at me, and I've got you know, I was

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Speaker 1: on the inside then. You know, when you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're inside and a partner to a director, you will

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Speaker 1: do what they want you to do if they make

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Speaker 1: you understand, if they empower you to that, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're in the process. You know. I

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Speaker 1: find many directors just stand behind the box because they

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Speaker 1: don't really understand actors. They just want them to get

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Speaker 1: it done so they can move on and get their

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Speaker 1: next shot. And that's just like the hell with you.

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Speaker 1: Go stand on your box. I'll get it. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: what about actors? And you've worked with a gallery of

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Speaker 1: very well known people, and what were some of them

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Speaker 1: that you really it was a joy for you in

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Speaker 1: a positive experience to work alongside them. I really liked

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Speaker 1: working with John Malkovich. Uh. I just did a very

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Speaker 1: small thing with him in a movie called Maholan Falls.

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Speaker 1: But I liked watching the way he worked. He had

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Speaker 1: no ownership of anything. He just did completely different things

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Speaker 1: in each tape. That was fantastic when you do that thing,

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Speaker 1: but it was no good technically, and you did something

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Speaker 1: else the next time, because that's some movies. It doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: it's the movies. It doesn't matter how Brando esc but

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Speaker 1: he had no But that's what's a wonderful thing about

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Speaker 1: movie acting. Good movie acting, there's no ownership of the

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Speaker 1: moment's passing right by, and you sort of catch it

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Speaker 1: as it's flying past. I mean, that's why I think

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Speaker 1: good movie actors. I like the ones that don't rehearse.

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Speaker 1: I love to hear some theater, but in the movies,

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Speaker 1: I never wanted her. So I want to get right

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Speaker 1: to the point and then okay, yeah, yeah, Now it's

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Speaker 1: roll so that when you jump, there's not look in

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Speaker 1: the eye. It's that discovery on camera. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be recreating on cameras. I'll tell you that. What's

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Speaker 1: happened to me, and it's only gotten worse as the

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Speaker 1: result of doing this television show is that I become

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Speaker 1: so technical. That's an asset inis certain way. I know

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Speaker 1: lots of actors that are afraid of the technical part

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Speaker 1: of movie making, and I think the more an actor

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Speaker 1: knows about the technical part of movie making them more.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and when did you start directing ten years ago?

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Speaker 1: And why uh, Because I worked with so many bad ones.

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Speaker 1: I tell you I just became the older an honest

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Speaker 1: answer somewhere. But the older I've gotten more interested I

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Speaker 1: am in the whole story, and the less interested I

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Speaker 1: am in you know how my hair is? You know

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Speaker 1: I'm less. I'm happy to watch someone else do it

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Speaker 1: is my faith theory. Now I am Mike. I'm interested

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Speaker 1: in producing. Like I'll say that. People say, don't you

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Speaker 1: want to beat it? And I go, no, not really, no,

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Speaker 1: See I'm not sure I have no interest in producing.

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Speaker 1: But the I like the director. I like the idea

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Speaker 1: of the whole story and being responsible for that and

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Speaker 1: keeping all that in my head. And I like a

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Speaker 1: great company together. By the way, too cynical actors, one

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Speaker 1: who has no decided to direct, the other desire to douce.

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Speaker 1: I could produce your films. Is it cynical? Is it just? Uh? Season?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the nice word. But I like the

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Speaker 1: idea of directing is being something that I'm doing and

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Speaker 1: applying all the things that I know and have learned.

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Speaker 1: Where is acting? It's still very much me focus, and

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Speaker 1: I the older I get, I find self consciousness still

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Speaker 1: shrouds me at times, and with directing there's none of that.

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Speaker 1: I'm never nervous or anxious when I directing. I never

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Speaker 1: have any kind of a sense of internal sort of

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Speaker 1: doubts and failings. I'm like, well, this is what I

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Speaker 1: have to do. I have to get this shot, have

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Speaker 1: to get that. I have to make sure, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a skill that I'm applying, and I've

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Speaker 1: worked with a hundred directors, so I know what works

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Speaker 1: what doesn't. I know as an actor, when I'm behaving

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Speaker 1: in a certain way, it usually means this. So when

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Speaker 1: I see an actor behaving that way, I just go

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Speaker 1: and go, oh, he doesn't know his lines. Okay, listen, John,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna do the first the first line from

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Speaker 1: the setup, and then suddenly he's charming again, you know,

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Speaker 1: because you know, I have all those active defenses, so

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Speaker 1: I know them when I see them. How are you

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Speaker 1: directing women? That's an art? I think, Well, directing women

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Speaker 1: is a different thing because it's you know, but largely

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Speaker 1: it's flirt and appreciate flirt and appreciate what a sexist thing?

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Speaker 1: Have you to say? Well, any time people is feel

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Speaker 1: um sexually attractive, they relax, and guys too. If I

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Speaker 1: forward with a particular guy and he likes it too,

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Speaker 1: but the other guys that guys, I don't for it

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Speaker 1: with guys. I just sort of guys more than the women.

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Speaker 1: It's less dangerous us a god your hands. But I

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Speaker 1: say that too, but then they laugh, and never lacked

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Speaker 1: when people laugh. If people laugh, they relax and they

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Speaker 1: like you then and then they go, okay. And what

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Speaker 1: you did I try and do is I forget who

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Speaker 1: taught it to me? Is that I remember Robert Redford

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Speaker 1: taught it to me. I did. I worked Sundayance a

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Speaker 1: million years ago, and he noticed detail of behavior right away.

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Speaker 1: And so when I saw that he noticed my detail

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Speaker 1: of behavior, I knew he was paying attention. When I

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Speaker 1: act as director to an actor, I will I will

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Speaker 1: notice their details, and so then they know he's watching,

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Speaker 1: so then they show up. Brando had that great thing,

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Speaker 1: and he used to say, you know, and if I

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Speaker 1: work with a new director the first day, I'll do

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Speaker 1: the real deal and they'll sort of fake it, and

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Speaker 1: if he can't tell the difference, I write the movie off.

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Speaker 1: But I mean that was small on Brando. He said

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Speaker 1: those kind of he was he was a ninja. But

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Speaker 1: he also said that great thing that acting is really

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Speaker 1: just ultimately this childish kind of behavior that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think I have somewhat of an agreement with that

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Speaker 1: to a certain way. There's a certain shame I feel.

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Speaker 1: If I'm directing and I am auditioning a middle aged

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Speaker 1: man and he comes in and reads his scene for me,

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Speaker 1: I just feel so embarrassment for them. I just feel

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Speaker 1: I hate the hat in hand feeling that actors go through.

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Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate being it when I have

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Speaker 1: to do it. I hate that hat in hand feeling,

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Speaker 1: and I hate when people have to do it for me.

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Speaker 1: I just I've recently been doing a lot of press

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Speaker 1: for this book, and so I see a lot of

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Speaker 1: clips of me when I'm very young. They throw them

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Speaker 1: up on the TV, and I see that young, youthful,

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Speaker 1: wide eyed passion for it and loving it and loving

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Speaker 1: it and the acting maybe dubious, but I mean that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't deny or look away from the thrill that

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Speaker 1: I'm getting to do this and we're doing it together

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Speaker 1: and it's so good. And that was what was attractive

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Speaker 1: about what I had to offer when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: Is your passion for acting less Well, it's waxed and

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Speaker 1: waned over the years, for sure, and I found you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a complicated question for me to answer because if

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Speaker 1: I were as successful as I might have wanted to

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Speaker 1: be as time has gone on, would it have waned?

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Speaker 1: I don't know? Or is it just a mask for disappointment.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, um, when you say if

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Speaker 1: you were successful as you wanted, but you were very successful, yes, no,

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Speaker 1: I was very successful in my jilin and then as

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Speaker 1: time has gone on, I've been I haven't gotten the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to do movies and certain things that I would

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Speaker 1: have wanted to do. So then my interest is Wayne.

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Speaker 1: But would it have Wayne had I been doing those?

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Speaker 1: And the question is did you want to? Which came Well,

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Speaker 1: that's all that's a that's a bigger question, you know,

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Speaker 1: and part of part of me did not. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're not doing that because it's a party that didn't

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Speaker 1: want And that's been very uh, that's been something I've

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Speaker 1: been slow to accept, you know. And but it's a

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Speaker 1: good valid point, you know. But again, I was in

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Speaker 1: the theater the other day in Ireland. I was just

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Speaker 1: there and I watched this Tom Murphy play and I'm like, God,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to be playing the part that guy is playing.

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Speaker 1: I haven't felt that in years, and I was thrilled

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Speaker 1: to feel that again, to feel that, like I, he's

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Speaker 1: very good, but I could do that part. And I

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Speaker 1: rarely feel that, you know, to feel that kind of

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Speaker 1: jazz again. Because so my core and at essence and

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Speaker 1: initially what I am and how I locate myself was

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Speaker 1: as an actor who someone you really liked directing? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I have only directed up theater stuff. I

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Speaker 1: directed Dana Delaney in a Plan, which I thought she

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Speaker 1: was a delight, you know. She's I like a nimble

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Speaker 1: sort of actor, you know, and I like one that

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Speaker 1: actually is interested in direct Yeah. And when I do TV,

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Speaker 1: I do a lot of that show Gossip Girl, and

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Speaker 1: I particularly like Ed Westwick. I thought he was really

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Speaker 1: interested in input and I would suggest things to him

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Speaker 1: and he would just take that idea and do the

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Speaker 1: idea and then go, oh and then I'll do this,

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Speaker 1: and I that's exactly take what I they offer you

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Speaker 1: and now just make it and bring you know, don't

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Speaker 1: just do what I tell you. Now take it, you know,

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Speaker 1: And then create your own thing with it. And I

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Speaker 1: like that feeling. You just sort of offer a nudgement

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Speaker 1: direction then off they go and they discover it, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I'm a genius, you know. And I just

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Speaker 1: like working with the crew, particularly too. I like to

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Speaker 1: create more than almost more than any actors working with

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Speaker 1: the crew, because if you can engage a crew, they're

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Speaker 1: suddenly leaning forward and they're coming to me with ideas.

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Speaker 1: It was like the craft service dude suddenly come and go.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really cool when he does that. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: so a good idea. I'm glad I thought of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, good ideas wherever they come from, you know, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And that was something chevrole taught me because he would

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Speaker 1: love an idea from anybody, and he co opted and

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Speaker 1: took it as his own. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to here's the thing. I'm talking with actor Andrew

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Speaker 1: McCarthy about what motivated him to leave comfort and safety

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Speaker 1: behind and to chronicle his solo travels in his new

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Speaker 1: memoir The Longest Way Home, One man's quest for the

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Speaker 1: courage to settle down. What's your relationship been to travel

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Speaker 1: since you were young. Did your family travel a lot? Now?

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Speaker 1: We went I grew up in Jersey. We went down

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Speaker 1: the Jersey shore for one week. He structured tax shelters

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Speaker 1: and all sorts of various mysterious things, like a bad

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Speaker 1: capital guy. I think he's fired that um. But we

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Speaker 1: did not travel. Travel came into my life later. But

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Speaker 1: when I discovered travel, it was the same thing that

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Speaker 1: happened to me when I discovered acting. I discovered acting

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Speaker 1: when I was think fifteen. I was in I was

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Speaker 1: the artful dodger in Oliver in high school. And that

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Speaker 1: changed my life in the way that that Tennessee Williams

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Speaker 1: line I misquoting A room that would have always been

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Speaker 1: half in the dark was suddenly in the light. That

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Speaker 1: kind of that was my experience when I first acted,

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, there I am wow, and

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Speaker 1: I've it was done. There was never a discussion would

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Speaker 1: I be an actor? There was no thought, there was

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Speaker 1: no nothing that that was what was happening to me.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happened. And I had no idea how

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Speaker 1: it would happen. I just sort of knew that it

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Speaker 1: would happen. And then I'd go to college sort of

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Speaker 1: and then i'd be in the movies, and that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: There was no plan after that, but that's where I

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Speaker 1: got into trouble. But and when I began to travel,

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Speaker 1: it was a similar sensation of not travel for work,

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Speaker 1: which is an entirely different insulated experience of getting picked

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Speaker 1: off going on, and that's never enjoying or experience I

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Speaker 1: always did. I loved being away, you know, in locations

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Speaker 1: and things, but I mean travel to he was not

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Speaker 1: vacation and not to sort of work. Traveled to me

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Speaker 1: is sort of something you go do alone and you

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Speaker 1: go off into the world and you make yourself vulnerable

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Speaker 1: into the world. It's not going to the spot. Well.

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Speaker 1: I the first time I traveled to change my life

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Speaker 1: in the same way that acting did. I walked across

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Speaker 1: the Camino to Santiago in Spain. It's five miles across

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Speaker 1: the north of Spain, and I was like, I'd never

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Speaker 1: hiped that, never backpacked. I read a book about it,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly I went and did it, and something just

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Speaker 1: told me to do that, and so I went and

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Speaker 1: did it, and that changed my life. That sort of

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Speaker 1: I've located with myself. Those three was twenty years ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so that changed my life doing that, and I

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Speaker 1: felt myself again, if in a full way, in the

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Speaker 1: way that I had stopped, felt less and less in

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Speaker 1: diminishing returns in acting. And what happened to you on

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Speaker 1: that trip, Well, I just sort of had one of

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Speaker 1: those comical classic breakdowns where I had a weeping fit

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Speaker 1: in the field of weed and sort of in the

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Speaker 1: moment of clarity, discovered I was ruled by fear, really,

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Speaker 1: and that fear had been so dominating my life, which

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Speaker 1: was such a is a strange thing for an actor

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Speaker 1: and someone who's very public and all that kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff and that, and so the minute you're aware of something,

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Speaker 1: it begins to change. And so that's that's sorted to

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Speaker 1: change for me. And so I traveled more and between jobs.

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Speaker 1: So if I didn't have a job by say November,

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Speaker 1: you know you're not going to get one before Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: and Christmas. So those last two months of every year,

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Speaker 1: I would go travel. I'd go down to Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 1: I'd go to Africa, like, buy a ticket into Cape

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Speaker 1: Town and a ticket for two months later. Yourself, did

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Speaker 1: you travel with someone alone? I would always go see

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Speaker 1: that the way you said, oh, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we'll you no. No. If I travel with you, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have a nice experience. We're gonna have fun, but

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have our experience of each other and there's

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Speaker 1: a certain safety, you know, illusionary maybe, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a feeling of safety and camaraderie. By design, you

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Speaker 1: do it alone. But the design I did it alone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I think you alone? I do yeah now mostly

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Speaker 1: for almost always for writing assignments. But I rarely get

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Speaker 1: to travel the way I did then because I have kids,

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Speaker 1: and so you can't travel for two months alone. Just

428
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 1: wondering how many kids do you have to how old

429
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: the pen? And six? Do you really traveling? Now? So? So,

430
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 1: where where you went across the Camino in Spain twenty

431
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: years ago? You had a ten year period before you

432
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: had children. Were you traveling? Was at a very aggressive

433
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 1: time you were traveling? Yeah? Very much so? And what

434
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: are some of the more memorial Pick two, let's say,

435
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 1: like the Camino which was followed. I followed a girl

436
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: down to Singapore. I knew her here and she worked

437
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 1: out in Singapore, and she said, don't you come down

438
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: and you know, visit me in Singapore, and I could

439
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: read between the lines. So I went down to Singapore

440
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: for a very nice weekend. And then someone said, while

441
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: you're going to Singapore, while you're in that part of

442
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 1: the world, you want to go to, uh Anchor Watt

443
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 1: And I was like, Anchor Wow, what's that's Anchor Wat? Okay?

444
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: And so I went to Anchor Wat. You know, you

445
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: hear people talk all the time about, oh, you should

446
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: have been there twenty years ago. You know, I was

447
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: at Anchor twenty years ago. Should have been there twenty

448
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, it was like, so that was a

449
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: big boutique now for the old and so that's you've

450
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: been there obviously. Why was that a great trip? I

451
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 1: was just one of those things where I just stepped

452
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: out into the world and the world meets you. You know,

453
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: you go make yourself vulnerable to the world, and the

454
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 1: world sort of receives you. That's my experience. You know,

455
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: the world is a much safer, more welcoming place than

456
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: we are led to believe by our politicians. And uh

457
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: so that has been my that's been my discovery. And

458
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 1: I find when you ask for help, I mean, I'm

459
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: that guy in New York at home where I will

460
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: never ask for directions. I'm like, don't turn on the GPS.

461
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,959
Speaker 1: We'll find it. We'll find it. I'm fine, you know.

462
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: But when I travel, the first thing I do is

463
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: I go, Hi, can can you help me? And the

464
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: minute you say can you help me? You are you go,

465
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: You shrink back to being a right sized you know

466
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: what I mean. You make yourself vulnerable to the world.

467
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 1: And that is a good thing in my opinion, and

468
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: the more I sort of so it's a weird empowering thing.

469
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: I I ran from acting because I felt vulnerable, and

470
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: yet I go out into the world and I feel vulnerable.

471
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: I opened myself up and feel vulnerable in a more

472
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: powerful way. You know. That's an authentic sort of vulnerability,

473
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: in the way that connects me to you, you know,

474
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: And so that is of interest to me. And so

475
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: anyway traveled to change my life in that way. So

476
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: then I vently just started writing about it. When when

477
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: did that begin? Well? I I tried to keep a journal,

478
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: and I thought, and I was not good at journaling.

479
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: Journaling was seemed to me silly and self indulgent, and

480
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 1: it was just stupid. I read it and I was

481
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: embarrassed by my journals. But I met a guy, you know,

482
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: one time, a kid. I was in hand Or Saigon,

483
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: and this kid pulled up and wanted to give me

484
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: ride on his scooter. And so I spent the day

485
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: with him on the back of the scooter, going around

486
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: and gave me a tour. And I went back to

487
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: my hotel and wrote it down, because you know, when

488
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: you're traveling alone, particularly very untethered, and so writing sort

489
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: of grounded me in a certain way. I just I

490
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: didn't know that, but when I did it, I went,

491
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: I feel better now. And so I wrote the scene

492
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: of what happened, and it captured my trip in a

493
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: certain way, and it was very personal to me. And

494
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: so I did that for like ten years. I would

495
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 1: just write the stuff. I'd come home, I throat in

496
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: a drawer and I'd forget about it and then, you know,

497
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: continue acting in all this. But when when I traveled,

498
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 1: I would write this stuff down of my encounters with people.

499
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: And I was an actor, so I know scenes. I

500
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: know dialogue. I know good I've said so much bad dialogue.

501
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: I know good dialogue when I hear it. So i'd

502
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: hear a good quote I'd write it down and then

503
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: eventually I kind of so, but none of the magazines

504
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: are travel. Stuff I'm reading is capturing the personal experience

505
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: that I'm having. I could do this. And so I

506
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: met a name did not know they're writing about places

507
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I'm like, that's not what traveler travels

508
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: and why would you describe their angle? What were they trying? Yeah?

509
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: In essence, And so I was found travel much more internal, personal,

510
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: private experience. And you know, I think did a lot

511
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: of literature from people who books really changed my life.

512
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: His notion that you know, go go far, go alonge,

513
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: don't come back for a long time, I found inspiring

514
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: and absolutely correct. And so that notion I think he said,

515
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: you know, travel, any kind of good travel erture is

516
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: ultimately about the traveler and not the destination. And so

517
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: that's what interested me, and how the universal things that

518
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: were happening to me when I would talk about the

519
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: emotional kind of things that were happening to be traveling,

520
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: when I would communicate that to a person to go, yeah,

521
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: that's really yeah, I feel that way or and so

522
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: that is what's of interest. You're trying to find that

523
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: moment of connection and identification with somebody not talking about

524
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: a place. And so I started writing for magazines about that.

525
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: When did that premiere? What was the first one that

526
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: we four? I wrote my Yeah, like eight years ago,

527
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: the National Geographic Traveler magazine. Yeah, I met the editor.

528
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: I knew somebody knew him. I met. I asked to

529
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: meet him and we met in a bar in the

530
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: East village and I said, you know, you let me

531
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: write for your magazine and he said, you're an active dude.

532
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but I know how to travel and

533
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: I know how to tell a story because that's what

534
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: I do. And nothing I'm reading is capturing the essence

535
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 1: of why we travel. Nothing and so nothing that I

536
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,959
Speaker 1: was reading and so so he said that's a good answer.

537
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,239
Speaker 1: And uh, after a year or so, he said, this

538
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: is you know, a while ago, after a year of

539
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: cajoling and pressuring him, emailing, badgering him, he sent me

540
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: for a story. I said, look, if it doesn't work,

541
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: just don't pay me. And he said, yeah, okay, I

542
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: can do that. So I wrote it. I went to

543
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Ireland and I wrote a story and you know, it worked.

544
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: And don't tell people in the movie business that it doesn't.

545
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: But again it was the same kind of thing that acting.

546
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: I want to do this. I don't know why. It

547
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: just touches something in me. It's I feel like me

548
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: when I do it. That's what I most like in

549
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: the world is feeling like myself. So I want to

550
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: do that, And so it worked out. I did another one.

551
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: I did another one. Then he was like, I kept

552
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: bombarding him with you know, pitches and things, and because

553
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: look here, talk to these other people, go bother them.

554
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: And so I did that. And I also knew in

555
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: a way that I didn't when I was acting that

556
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: I wanted by the time I was sort of outed

557
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: as being wait, the guy from Pretty in Pink's a

558
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: travel writer. By the time I was outed for that,

559
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to have written for a lot of good publications,

560
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: so they I wasn't easily dismissed. Did you find that

561
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: there was any sense of people, uh, playing that with you?

562
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: The guy from Pretty in Pink as a travel writer?

563
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: Not initially because most of it's done by email. I

564
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: didn't meet many editors and so I'm just writing. And

565
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: then finally a magazine I wrote for New and they

566
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 1: when the magazine came out, they said, we sent Andrew Bratt, Packer,

567
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: Andrew McCarthy and Ethiopian. He got arrested, read about it

568
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: in Norman scene. I got arrested writing the story, and

569
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: so it was a good lead, so I put it

570
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: in the story, and so then I was suddenly my

571
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: two worlds collided. But by then I'd written for you know,

572
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: the New York Times, The Atlantic, the National Geographics. So

573
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: I had a stable body work under me where I

574
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: wasn't so quickly dismissed. But yes, to answer your question,

575
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: I still encounter it all the time, people going thinking

576
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm some kind of interloper or dilettante. But I think

577
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: it's interesting as much as anyone I've met in this business.

578
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: And I've only met you a handful of times. You're

579
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: someone who whatever people want to say your persona is

580
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: from those films, You're so different in person from your

581
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: persona in those funder and where where those where those

582
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: films are what's the word high concept? I mean all

583
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: those platforms are very high concept and very amorphous kind

584
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: of and the characters are everybody's doing anything. Yeah, I

585
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: mean aspect a personality I said very much suited me,

586
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: which is why I was successful in them. And yet

587
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: I mean, would anybody want to be labeled forever? Is

588
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: what they did when they were twenty one years old

589
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: and change? It's not that even mind, It's just it

590
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: catches people unawares. They didn't know they'd locked me in

591
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: that box. And then I meet them. You're when met

592
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: in person, you're every inch of person who I would

593
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: give a contract to write for a magazine and have

594
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,239
Speaker 1: direct my TV show with my movie. So usually when

595
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I meet people, they get over it quickly, and if

596
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: they don't, it's usually their insecurity and their problem. And

597
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: I can recognize that very quickly as you you know,

598
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: you can very And so life is too short and

599
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: I go elsewhere do you find that this is the

600
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: role where you're out there and it's a bit of

601
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: a public thing for you, you know what I mean,

602
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: you're out there, come one. But I found it. You

603
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: like this role. It's much less a role than well,

604
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: that's an interesting about a role. It's not like, well,

605
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: it's more just me. Um, that's people. I've been doing

606
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: out a publicity for this book and people say, what's

607
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: the difference between doing publicity for your book and you know,

608
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: movie published or junket, I go a movie junket or

609
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: any kind of movie published her television acting publicity, you're

610
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: presenting still you're behind it, and you're talking about the

611
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: role when you're you're a certain you're adopting a certain persona.

612
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: Whereas it where when you're I'm talking about this book

613
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: that I'm written, it's much more just like as a

614
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: friend of mine says, well, you've written a memoir and

615
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: now your ass is hanging out. I mean it's just

616
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: me and I'm sort of being the book, which is

617
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: very open in a certain way. So I find it

618
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: much more vulnerable. You think yours is hanging out with

619
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: this book, Yeah, much more so than certainly with acting. Yeah,

620
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: I mean the book is much more sort of memoir

621
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: than travel book. It's much more sort of that internal

622
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: journey that happens when we travel, as opposed to the external.

623
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: But you don't feel that writer is a role you're

624
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: playing now, you don't. You don't look at as a

625
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: role you're playing the role of writer. I found I

626
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: found writing a relief when I found it because I

627
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: felt like I was you know what what? So I

628
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: don't particularly feel like it's a role I feel that

629
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: certain similarity in acting towards In acting you have a

630
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: certain skill tool chest, and in writing you have also

631
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: a certain tool chest um that you need to apply

632
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: to create what you want to create. And I feel

633
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: like I have more of a one and acting because

634
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: I've done it longer. So you know inspirations, you know

635
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: inspiration and acting happens very rarely. Most of the time

636
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: you're laying brick. So but the reason I asked this

637
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: is because when the acting thing, which is also just

638
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: you know what we ended up doing, when you do

639
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: that and it works well, it feels a certain way,

640
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: and then it's a great feeling, and then it was

641
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: a similar feeling when I write something. I was gonna

642
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: say sense, and I don't know where that sense is

643
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: gonna end, and I'm typing and I don't know where

644
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: the sin is gonna end. There there it is. That's

645
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: a thrill. So I get when you're now a close

646
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: up and that moment happens in the coast up between it.

647
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 1: So when what I guess what I'm asking is, is

648
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: this where you are more reliably getting that thrill than

649
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: you did from acting? Can you count on this more

650
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 1: to give you the at least the opportunity for that thrill. Well,

651
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: I'm getting received at it in uh are quite well,

652
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, more so than I am in acting

653
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: in a certain way. So I'm that's where my jazz

654
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: is coming from now because I'm getting the opportunity. And

655
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: it's also something I can create my own opportunity here

656
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: with the writing because I just do it, and because

657
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I've been successful at it, I'm getting more opportunity to

658
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: do it. Or is acting you know, you're waiting for

659
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: somebody to give you the chance to do it. But

660
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 1: it's also the moment of connection that you have, Like

661
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: we're having a conversation and suddenly it sparks and we

662
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: feel connected and ah, and so you have that human

663
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: instant um for you. Uh do you feel like tomorrow

664
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: there's a great well maybe I was acting still alive

665
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: for you so much so. I mean, but like we

666
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: just said, I I suppose the jazz is coming from

667
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: writing because that's where the opportunity is coming him. But

668
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: I in a certain way, the it doesn't matter, they're

669
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: the same thing because what you're talking about and what

670
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: I feel I need to sort of I hate the word,

671
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: but like create every day. It doesn't even have to

672
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: be good creativity or bad creative. I have to feel

673
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: in essence. That's how I locate myself by employing creativity

674
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: in my life. I mean, I don't lay bricks, I

675
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: don't turn widgets. That's how I That's what I do.

676
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: That's how who I am. And so that's how I

677
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: find myself. And so I need to I find If

678
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: I can do that every day, then I'm I'm in

679
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: a better mood, you know. And it again, it doesn't

680
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: have to be good or something anybody sees. But and

681
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: so writing is one of those things where I can

682
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: do that, you know, on a regular basis that is

683
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: cumulative and feel substantive and feels like I've spent my time. Well,

684
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: So describe for people, if you would, one observation or

685
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: one instance of where your ass is hanging out in

686
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: the book. What was something you wanted to deal with

687
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: in the book and talk about in the book that

688
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: was important to you to communicate to readers. Well, I mean,

689
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: I suppose I wanted to just communicate the humanness and

690
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: like I wasn't writing specifically how this is what I

691
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: felt and why I you know, I the books that

692
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: odd paradox. I The books really about trying to come

693
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: to terms with someone that I loved and to get

694
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: married by leaving and going as far away from them

695
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: as I could possibly get. That's what the book of

696
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: the essence of the book is, how do we find

697
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: intimacy with people and yet still maintain our own singularity?

698
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: And have you succeeded to that? Well, you know the

699
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: day of time. Um, But I mean it's something I

700
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: hadn't read about, and it's something I hadn't seen people

701
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: grappling with. And I'm very sort of singular and solitary

702
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and yet I love now

703
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: my wife and my kids desperately in a painful way.

704
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: And how do you reconcile those two things? And I

705
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: wanted to find an answer for that as much as

706
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: I could. At least I want to put the question

707
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: on the table and go, this exists for me, maybe

708
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: it exists for other people too. Where I hate you,

709
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: how much I love you? How am I going to

710
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: reconcile that? With me wanting to? I don't know if

711
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: it's neat, but it's how much I love you, how

712
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: much I'm making myself vulnerable to be slammed by you,

713
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: And yet that's the only game in town. I have

714
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, let you could stab me here and

715
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: and but that's the only viable game in town. And

716
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: how does someone who desperately wants to run away deal

717
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: with that? And knowing that's the only game in town.

718
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: So so it was just a conflict and sort of

719
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: push pull that I wanted to wrangle with. And so

720
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: to to wrangle with that, I had to expose my

721
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: self and do Dad, what did your wife think about

722
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: the book? She like that would ended. You know, we

723
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: got married. I mean, but she knows who I am,

724
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: and so she knew it. She knew it all before

725
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: she heard. And you know, when you're writing that great print,

726
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: well it's different, it's different, and everything is different in print.

727
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: You know that grain show Dannian line. I'm mis quoting that.

728
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: Um she said. You know, I write to know what

729
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm thinking. You know, I've said that I travel to

730
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: find out what I'm feeling, and I write to figure

731
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: it out again. But when you, like you said, when

732
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: you see something in print, it's very different. I write

733
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: in the book a lot about my relationship with my father,

734
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: which surprised me I didn't know I was going to

735
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: be writing about that and then constantly being being a

736
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: son and being a father, and my relationship with my

737
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: father was not great or close. He is, yeah, and

738
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: has it? Is it better? It's which has an amicable

739
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: distance and affection now that it didn't have. You know,

740
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: I was afraid of my father very much, and then

741
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: of three brothers, so there were four boys, and now

742
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: we have I have great affection for him. We're not

743
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: particularly close in any way, but and I feel that lack.

744
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: I feel that that did you say that in the book? Yes?

745
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: How did he respond to that? I don't know that

746
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: he's read it, But I found the writing of the

747
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: book made me feel more affectionate towards my father in

748
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: a certain way, and that it's in print, and it

749
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: dissolved a lot of this sort of stress between us

750
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: on my part. Anyway. Again, I don't know what his

751
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: reaction is. I find that for me, you know, I

752
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: have a child, and aside from my specific relationship with her,

753
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: just parenting in general. The great reality is that you

754
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: look and see what the boundaries and the nature was

755
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: of your own relationship with your parents, and therefore you

756
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: must accept that the same as true in their eyes.

757
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: But at least now I look at like my mother,

758
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: I understand her better. You know, it's similar to your dad.

759
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: I look at my mom and I go, well, she

760
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: was this way in this way, and she was an

761
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: animal trainer with four sons and two daughters. I get it.

762
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: I understand her. I mean I heard someone would say,

763
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: you know, I was an event in my parents life.

764
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: I wasn't the event. I don't. Wow, that makes you know?

765
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,959
Speaker 1: But yes, I have this idea of how I think

766
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: my son and my relationship is in my daughter. My

767
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: it is still with my daughter because she's only six,

768
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: but my son is becoming he's ten now and he's

769
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: becoming cool. And I went up to his classroom today

770
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: and he was mortified that I came up to his

771
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 1: card dad, what are you doing here? Get out of here?

772
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: And got a book again. I'm I'm already, I'm something

773
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: he's embarrassed of already, and I'm like, wow, yeah, that's

774
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: starting to happen. But interestingly, my son. I always tried

775
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: to protect my kids from this acting person and people

776
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: come up to me for an autographer. I have a

777
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: picture taker, and I would always kind of say, well,

778
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: I'm with my family, right, I'd rather not if you

779
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: don't mind. Where's other times I'd be fine too. And

780
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: this summer we were in Wyoming camping family camping tip.

781
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: But we're in a diner and I was with my

782
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: son and the woman comes up to me and the

783
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: waitress and she says, are you from the mannequin Mike? Yeah? Hi, Hi,

784
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: And so suddenly it's big news in the diner that

785
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: they go and weekend at Bernie's, and you know, so

786
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: there's no where to ron and I. We take our

787
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: pictures and saw on our autographs and have the chats,

788
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: and my son is sitting here next to me the

789
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: whole time. And I turned to him afterward, I said, Sam,

790
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: how did that? How did that make you feel that

791
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: you know? And how is that for you? I said, Oh, Dad,

792
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 1: I was so proud, and I got tears in my eyes.

793
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: I realized I've done everything wrong trying to protect my

794
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: kids from this, because I thought I should be protecting

795
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: him so he wouldn't resent it or think of something

796
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: he's different than other kids, or his dad's even weird.

797
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: But he just saw a certain part of me that

798
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: I hadn't that I withheld from him that was very

799
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: important part of me that I shouldn't have been withholding

800
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: all this not So it's interesting. I mean, you think

801
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: you're doing all these kind of things and who the

802
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: hell knows? The last thing I want to ask you is, um,

803
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: you said it's not it's the journey and not the destination.

804
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: And would you say that you are I don't. I

805
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: hate this word, But would you say that you're content

806
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: and you're happy where you are? Now? Uh? Interesting? I'm

807
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: you know, the director me is always going what's next?

808
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: What's next? The shot is good? But what shot am

809
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 1: I doing next? So? I I love the travel writing.

810
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: I enjoyed having to bring this book forth, you know,

811
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: and creating that that was the next change. But I'm

812
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: always sort of looking for what's the next sort of

813
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: challenge to do and what's the next thing to do?

814
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean content, my content? You know, I don't. I'd

815
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: be hard pressed to say I've kept them separate, for

816
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: I think I've had so many disappointments and so much

817
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: baggage involved with acting, and I know what happens to

818
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: screenplay so much that I haven't done that at all yet. Um,

819
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm too protective of my words, you know,

820
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: in a certain way, to have them just ravaged like

821
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 1: that without care. Uhre books, Well, yeah, I have another

822
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: idea for another book. I have a novel that I've

823
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: almost finished that there's more I'd like to do, and

824
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: there there's more i'd like to do acting again, you know.

825
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: I said that sort of come back into my life

826
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: in a way of desire again. So but I wouldn't

827
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: say content, no, but I'm pleased to feel sort of

828
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: vital in myself in a certain way. Andrew McCarthy. His

829
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: book is called The Longest Way Home, One Man's Quest

830
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: for the Courage to settle down. Now next month you

831
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: can see him in his latest project, a movie called

832
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: Christmas Dance. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's

833
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: the Thing