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Speaker 1: What is happening my people? I'm John Middlecop. This is

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Speaker 1: the three and Out Podcast, back to talk a little football.

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Speaker 1: We did a live reaction yesterday to the PGA Championship.

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Speaker 1: Xanderschoffley finally won a major, and obviously the big story

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Speaker 1: of Friday and the weekend was Scottie Scheffler being arrested

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Speaker 1: and put into an orange jumpsuit. So I gave my

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Speaker 1: outlook on that one. Alzheimer. That'll be tough to be

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Speaker 1: topped ads to the legend of Scotty And today we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk OTA's quarterback contracts, TUA Doug Peterson on

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Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence. I think both teams would be well served

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Speaker 1: to take a similar approach. Let it play out. Some

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Speaker 1: thoughts on OTA's when it comes to the importance of

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Speaker 1: young guys, new free agents, new coaches, head coaches or coordinators.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm just going to fire through a couple

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Speaker 1: of NFL stories. Marvin Harrison Junior is being sued by fanatics,

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Speaker 1: the NFL network has basically canceled or po all their programming,

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Speaker 1: and Drake may stood next to Tom Brady and he's massive.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Jones is participating in seven on seven, so it

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Speaker 1: looks like he's healthy. And we'll just talk a little

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Speaker 1: football and then be joined by Michael Lombardi, longtime NFL

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Speaker 1: executive turn podcaster media guy. So I talked to him

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Speaker 1: last week for about thirty thirty five minutes. He will

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Speaker 1: be on the podcast as well, and other than that,

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Speaker 1: we will do a mail bag tomorrow. So at John

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Speaker 1: Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those dms, I will

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Speaker 1: answer your mail bag questions. The rest of the week.

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Speaker 1: But no mail bag today, just some thoughts on OTA's

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Speaker 1: and Lombardi and then we'll get back rocking and rolling

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Speaker 1: to normal program. It's Moral Day weekend coming up, so

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Speaker 1: hopefully you're going to the lake, getting a barbecue in,

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Speaker 1: playing some golf, hanging out. It's a good time of year.

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Speaker 1: Sun is out in theory. It's actually a cloudy day

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Speaker 1: and raining a little where I am, but time to

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Speaker 1: enjoy yourself. So if you listen on Collins Feed, make

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Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to three and out. All of our

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Speaker 1: contents up on the YouTube page. Type in my name.

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Speaker 1: It's all there. And other than that, let's talk some football.

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Speaker 1: But before we dive in, I mentioned this yesterday on

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Speaker 1: the Go Low podcast reacting to the PGA Championship where

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Speaker 1: Scotti Sheffler got arrested. Is I was up early in

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Speaker 1: the morning on Sunday, scroll on Instagram and I see

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Speaker 1: this video of Brock Party handing out beers to George

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Speaker 1: Kittle at the Luke Combs concert, and I'm like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna go to that, So hit up

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Speaker 1: my friends at game time, got taken care of, and

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Speaker 1: I'm headed to Luke Comb's here in Glendale in a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks. I'm fired up. And I've used these

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Speaker 1: guys over and over for the last year and a half.

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Speaker 1: I've gone to spring training games, I've gone to an

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Speaker 1: NHL game. I've gone to multiple concerts. I haven't gotten

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Speaker 1: to a comedy show yet, but it if you want

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Speaker 1: to go to one. I saw my neighbors like a

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Speaker 1: month ago, headed out. They had cocktails in hand, hopping

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Speaker 1: in an uber had to do a comedy show. So

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Speaker 1: if you want to go, enjoy yourself, go do something fun,

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Speaker 1: get out of the house. Game Time do it right now.

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Speaker 1: Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. You know Mike Florio

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Speaker 1: on Pro Football Talk, highly successful. I guess it would

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Speaker 1: be called a blog website. It's like the modern day newspaper,

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Speaker 1: operates at rapid speed, and he gives his opinions and

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Speaker 1: I disagree with ninety percent of them. But his big

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Speaker 1: thing is the price always goes up when it comes

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Speaker 1: to these quarterback contracts. And here's my thing. I would

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Speaker 1: never mind paying a little bit more to know for sure,

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Speaker 1: I would hate giving an astronomical amount of money because

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Speaker 1: we all see these quarterback contracts. They are in a

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Speaker 1: different universe than the rest of the players. Like when

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Speaker 1: wide receivers get broken off, they get seventy million dollars guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: That's what Devonte Adams, that what that's what Tyreek Hill got.

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Speaker 1: I've never cared that much about the yearly basis when

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Speaker 1: it comes to your contract, because that's not how NFL

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Speaker 1: contracts work. This is not basketball, where when you sign

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Speaker 1: a four year, one hundred million dollar deal, you're basically

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Speaker 1: getting twenty five million dollars a year. Every penny is guaranteed,

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Speaker 1: or a two hundred million dollar deal or two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty million dollar deal or whatever money gets handed

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Speaker 1: out in the NBA. We know football contracts don't work

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Speaker 1: like that because there's guaranteed money, there's non guaranteed money.

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Speaker 1: There's signing bonuses, which are a big setup to the

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Speaker 1: way these guys get compensated. And when we just saw

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Speaker 1: Jared Goff get one hundred and seventy million dollars guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: That was the number that mattered to me, not the

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Speaker 1: fifty three million dollars. Now, if you do the math,

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Speaker 1: fifty three million dollars over the course of several years,

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Speaker 1: you know it's like a three year He's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: He is the starting quarterback for the foreseeable future. Safe

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Speaker 1: to say they're not going to pull a Sean Payton

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Speaker 1: Denver Broncos and cut him if he has a down year.

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Speaker 1: But they have to feel really good about him because

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Speaker 1: when they traded for him, their franchise was a joke.

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Speaker 1: Three years later, they have a lead in the NFC

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Speaker 1: Championship and we're working the forty nine ers on the road.

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Speaker 1: So Jared Goff has proven and a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: one question mark with him is in inclement weather. Now,

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Speaker 1: if I was playing in a freezing cold game, he

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Speaker 1: definitely wouldn't be the first draft pick. But remember a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago in a cold game against Aaron

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Speaker 1: Rodgers and his last game as a Packer played pretty well.

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Speaker 1: So his resume is really really long and has proven

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Speaker 1: four for them that he can win playoff games, not

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Speaker 1: a playoff game, playoff games one two. This year. The

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Speaker 1: thing with Tua is he's obviously been really solid for

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Speaker 1: the Dolphins. He's help with Mike McDaniel and Tyreek Hill

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Speaker 1: and kind of the crew they have make the franchise

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Speaker 1: relevant and got them to the playoffs back to back years.

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Speaker 1: Here's the problem, and this year is a good example.

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Speaker 1: Last year he was injured right, he had the concussion situation,

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Speaker 1: didn't even play in the in the game against the

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Speaker 1: Bills in the playoffs, skyther Thompson did actually have some moments,

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Speaker 1: and then this year he had no shot like it

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Speaker 1: was a joke against the Kansasity Chiefs in that freezing

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Speaker 1: cold weather game that Bretfeach told me the combine was

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Speaker 1: the coldest game he's ever been experienced. And when you

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Speaker 1: just say it's going to be a freezing cold game,

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Speaker 1: you would short the Dolphins. My thing is on extending him,

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Speaker 1: like what's the rush? Why do you need to do it?

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Speaker 1: If the number is the number, I just can't pay

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Speaker 1: you the number right now. If I'm gonna have to

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Speaker 1: pay ten more percent because this year you take me

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Speaker 1: to the conference championship game. Rattle off some playoff victories

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Speaker 1: win me the division, Okay, But I will feel much

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Speaker 1: better against that six month ten percent inflation because I

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Speaker 1: didn't pay him over the summer, and I paid him

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Speaker 1: in February or March of twenty twenty five knowing what

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Speaker 1: he can do in the big games, because right now

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Speaker 1: you simply do not. He was not good down the stretch.

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Speaker 1: He did not beat good teams, and he didn't play well.

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Speaker 1: And the team that you're chasing, he's never gonna be

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Speaker 1: as good as Josh Allen. So I'm not comparing him

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Speaker 1: to Josh Allen, but that's the guy in your division, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's the guy you have to take down. And there

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Speaker 1: was never a better time than twenty twenty three when

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Speaker 1: the team started six and six, and then when the

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Speaker 1: dust settled, they won the division and obviously they were

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Speaker 1: in the second round of the playoffs. So my take

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Speaker 1: on guys like Tua is I just need as much

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Speaker 1: information as possible before I'm absolutely forced. That's what I

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Speaker 1: would do, and we'll see if the Dolphins end up

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Speaker 1: giving him a massive extension. And even in the Jared

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Speaker 1: goth range, which I think like I would rather have

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Speaker 1: Jared Goff than to a Tongua Bai lola. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's some hot take. I think that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a no brainer. And I think if I pull thirty

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Speaker 1: two GMS, I think GoF would be the majority of picks.

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Speaker 1: Not saying it'd be thirty two nothing, but I think

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Speaker 1: the number would be well over twenty five. I think

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Speaker 1: it would be ninety percent. I really do. So my

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Speaker 1: take on this is just what's the rush? What's the rush?

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Speaker 1: And I say the same thing about Trevor Lawrence because

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Speaker 1: Doug Peterson said today that Trent Balkey and Trevor Lawrence's

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Speaker 1: agent are working tirelessly on a contract extension. Another Florio take,

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Speaker 1: the price only goes up. Okay, at least I feel

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Speaker 1: better about giving one hundred and eighty or two hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars knowing I have a guy after he throws

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Speaker 1: thirty five touchdowns and leads me to the division championship,

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Speaker 1: when most people are gonna pick the Texans or even

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Speaker 1: the Colts, not us. Trevor Lawrence has never thrown more

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Speaker 1: than twenty five touchdowns in a season, and that was

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Speaker 1: two years ago. Last year he was banged up, and

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Speaker 1: simply he just wasn't very good, turn the ball over

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Speaker 1: way too much. And to me, the eye test, you

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Speaker 1: just watched him, and when you factored in the hype,

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Speaker 1: you're like, I don't see it.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: If he's the eleventh best quarterback and I got to

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Speaker 1: give him some massive contract, so be it. But if

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Speaker 1: it turns out he's actually closer like the fifteenth sixteenth

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Speaker 1: best quarterback in the league, we got a problem. And

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Speaker 1: now given our division, just with CJ. Stroud and the

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Speaker 1: Houston Texans, we're fighting for second place. And if this

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Speaker 1: year Shane Siken's definitely a good coach, and if Anthony

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Speaker 1: Richardson could stay healthy, that roster's good, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: we're finishing in third and we're paying our quarterback of premium. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I thought the Dak contract years ago was kind of bold,

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Speaker 1: but say this. They don't win in the playoffs, which

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Speaker 1: obviously gets talked about a lot. But every year I'm

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Speaker 1: getting twelve wins with Dak Prescott when he's healthy. Every

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Speaker 1: year I got a pretty good chance to win the division.

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Speaker 1: I've won it two of three years. This year might

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Speaker 1: be a little challenging because the roster's not as good

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Speaker 1: because his contract's kicking in. But for three years on

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Speaker 1: that massive contract extension, he entered the Bell in the

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Speaker 1: regular season. And I just based on the body of

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Speaker 1: work with Trevor Lawrence, giving him and to these massive

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Speaker 1: numbers just seems like bad business, because that's ultimately what

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Speaker 1: this is. This is not baseball. Or you have an

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Speaker 1: unlimited amount of money and you can pay show Hey Tani.

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Speaker 1: You can pay his buddy from Japan, who's some sweet pitcher.

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Speaker 1: You can pay Mookie Betch, you can pay Freddy Freeman.

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Speaker 1: You can do like the Yankees did all those years,

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Speaker 1: pay all these guys. It doesn't matter. That's not the

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Speaker 1: case here. You're in a salary cap league where your

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Speaker 1: resources you better be right because when you sign bad

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Speaker 1: contracts or overpay dramatically for a player, it's a problem.

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Speaker 1: And that's a position player. When you dramatically overpay a quarterback,

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Speaker 1: you're in major, major trouble. So I think these teams

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Speaker 1: like yeah, Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes

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Speaker 1: making boatloads of money, they're elite, they're all time great players.

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Speaker 1: When Patrick Mahomes, you could argue, is already like a

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Speaker 1: top five quarterback of all time. Josh Allen and Lamar

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Speaker 1: Jackson are the second and third best player given Joe

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Speaker 1: Burrow's injuries right now in the league. So like you

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Speaker 1: feel good about it, and they can carry teams when

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Speaker 1: I pay you all this money, Like you get to

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Speaker 1: a point like can you carry me? And I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen enough. I mean we've seen two of these big games.

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Speaker 1: A lot to be desired, like just not my type.

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Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence kind of still riding a lot of hype

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Speaker 1: from his youth, weird situation in Jacksonville, but I just

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Speaker 1: got to see more and I could not give out

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Speaker 1: that type money now justin Jefferson's currently holding out from

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Speaker 1: these voluntary OTAs. He's so good, like you don't have

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Speaker 1: a choice, Like you're gonna have to pay him a

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Speaker 1: ton of money. But this is where it gets complicated.

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Speaker 1: The last wide receiver contracts are seventy ish million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Like that's the most guaranteed money that was given out.

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Speaker 1: He's probably going I want one hundred million dollars. And

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Speaker 1: that's just not how these teams operate. It's all based

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Speaker 1: on comps. Even if your hat is nicer than my hat,

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Speaker 1: if I bought my hat for thirty dollars and you go, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'll sell you this hat. It's a little nicer for

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Speaker 1: sixty dollars. That that becomes difficult. And that's where these

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Speaker 1: conversations just aren't black and white. The Vikings aren't morons.

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Speaker 1: They know how elite this player is, and Jefferson knows

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Speaker 1: obviously how good he is. But you start asking for

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Speaker 1: the moon, and that's part of negotiations. One team's you know,

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Speaker 1: out here, the other teams over here, and you try

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Speaker 1: to find some middle ground. And clearly, because there's been

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Speaker 1: several years, you know before that group of guys Debo,

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Speaker 1: DK and aj got those big contracts, aj Senz has

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Speaker 1: got a contract extension on top of that. Is that's

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Speaker 1: where the numbers, you know, are just a little weird.

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Speaker 1: And you've seen some other guys get contract extensions. To me,

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Speaker 1: it's less about the per year and more like how

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Speaker 1: much are you guaranteeing me? So I'm sure he wants

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Speaker 1: one hundred plus million dollars?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Nick Bosa last year got one hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 1: million dollars, most money ever for a non quarterback, and

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Speaker 1: we haven't seen a player quite of that level get extended,

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Speaker 1: but like there were already comps for that position. TJ.

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Speaker 1: Watta think got over ninety miles, Garrett was in the

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Speaker 1: hundred range, Joey Bosa was in the hunte So it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm better the position inflation, the cap inflation.

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Speaker 1: It was a bold move on top of the previous numbers,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't out of the realm. And that's where

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Speaker 1: I wonder if there's some disconnect here. Ultimately, Justin Jefferson

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Speaker 1: will be in Minnesota Viking Cam Hayward, who's been on

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Speaker 1: this podcast a couple times, this is one that gets

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Speaker 1: kind of complicated because he's an older player. He's holding out.

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Speaker 1: He sees the amount of money these d tackles are getting.

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Speaker 1: He knows his value to the team, team captain, Man

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Speaker 1: of the Year for the NFL, and I think the

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Speaker 1: Steelers go, well, you are thirty five, you were injured

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Speaker 1: last year. These can get very emotional. These are difficult

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Speaker 1: discussions and situations to figure out. Now, Ultimately, the closer

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Speaker 1: and closer you get for the season, like the one

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Speaker 1: move you have, like if Tua really wanted to get paid,

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Speaker 1: like I give him credit because he hangs his hat.

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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it is intangibles, team leader.

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Speaker 1: Everyone likes him, knows the offense you start holding out,

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Speaker 1: I don't blame him, Like that is the business move.

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Speaker 1: That's what Zach Martin did last year. It's like, Zach,

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Speaker 1: we're paying you fourteen. Well I see all these other

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Speaker 1: guards getting sixteen. I want twenty. So he's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not showing up, Like that is your one pitch. Not

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Speaker 1: an easy pitch to throw, but when you throw it,

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Speaker 1: you create a chaotic situation for the organization and put

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Speaker 1: leverage a little bit in your court. So I understand

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Speaker 1: what Cam's doing. That is the right business move. Just

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Speaker 1: fans can turn on you, right, justin Jefferson. No one's

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Speaker 1: like that's weird. Right, It's like, yeah, shit, he deserves

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. Tua did it, Like yeah, is

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Speaker 1: he good enough? Is he good enough? But this is

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Speaker 1: where like two was in the business of Tua, right,

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Speaker 1: that's the business you're in. You don't own a company,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't have some other entity like your

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Speaker 1: business is you playing quarterback for them? So this is

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Speaker 1: not an easy situation. But we'll see over the next

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Any other names pop up. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there will be. Cede Lamb would definitely be. You want

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Speaker 1: to keep an eye on OTAs. I just want to

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Speaker 1: hit on some things that I think are key going

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Speaker 1: into like this next month period of time. I think

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Speaker 1: first and foremost is all your top picks, which ideally

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Speaker 1: are going to contribute to you this season, your first

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Speaker 1: second round picks, and then you're gonna get a couple

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Speaker 1: of random other rookies. But they're really starting probably closer

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Speaker 1: to the third with the third group than they are

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Speaker 1: with the ones. Sometimes you know your rookies old school

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Speaker 1: coaches will put them with the two. Some just throw

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Speaker 1: them right in. Obviously, some of these quarterbacks, Bonnicks, Caleb

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Speaker 1: Williams just running with the ones. You got to mix

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Speaker 1: those guys in because they had rookie mini camp. They've

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Speaker 1: been traveling forever. They haven't been with the veteran players.

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Speaker 1: Now you're all under one umbrella. You're all on one team.

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Speaker 1: So this is not about there's no pads, there's no hitting,

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Speaker 1: there's no tackling. It's about taking the scheme from the

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Speaker 1: coaches and then seeing your new teammates and how to play,

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Speaker 1: And that to me is a huge because with the injuries,

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Speaker 1: with the amount you have to depend and I would

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Speaker 1: say the same the second year guys, some of them

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Speaker 1: your draft picks that spend time on practice squad, This

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Speaker 1: is a huge time for them to gain an advantage,

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Speaker 1: especially over some of these new rookies. You might have

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Speaker 1: been a guy last year that was drafted in the

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Speaker 1: third round to play guard, and then all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden they draft another guy in the third or fourth

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Speaker 1: round to play guard. You have a huge advantage during

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Speaker 1: this period of time because you know everything, especially if

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Speaker 1: you have the same coach or same coordinator, you have

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Speaker 1: a gigantic, gigantic advantage because of the knowledge, because of

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Speaker 1: what is asked of everybody at practice, the standard of

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Speaker 1: your team. So this is the time for you to

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Speaker 1: separate a little bit. I think you know in free agency,

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Speaker 1: when you give a guy a little bit of money,

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Speaker 1: that guy's going to start for you. This is not

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Speaker 1: a young player, a rookie player that you have to

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Speaker 1: at least, you know, get him to earn his stripes,

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Speaker 1: get him to earn the respect of the coaches and

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Speaker 1: the team. If I give a guy fifteen million dollars

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Speaker 1: a year at guard or detackle, or linebacker or whatever position.

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Speaker 1: That guy is my starter. So as the tech companies

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Speaker 1: like to say, in a very trendy word to onboard

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Speaker 1: that guy. Wherever you're coming from, this is how we

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Speaker 1: do it here. This is what we want you to do. Now,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. When you sign a guy in free agency,

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Speaker 1: if he's been in the league four or five, however

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Speaker 1: many years, he's shown you what he does. So now

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Speaker 1: when you sign that guy, you should be asking him

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Speaker 1: to do what he does well. So it's it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a tough balance. Ideally he's just a plug and

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Speaker 1: play scheme fit. If he's not, that's where you get

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Speaker 1: problems with some of these free agencies signing. This is

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Speaker 1: not baseball. Hey, just sign a third baseman. He got

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Speaker 1: second in my lineup. Put him at third base, put

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Speaker 1: him a second lineup. We're off and runner. He's either

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Speaker 1: gonna hit and play the events or he's not. That's

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Speaker 1: obviously not how football works. You know, Hey, this guy

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Speaker 1: was more of a press man corner. Now you're asking

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Speaker 1: him to play more way, more zone concepts. This guy

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Speaker 1: played in Kyle's scheme that's all zone based runs. Now

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Speaker 1: we're doing more one on one power base. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: ask him to pull a lot. It's like, well, we

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Speaker 1: might have some issues, but ultimately you signed that guy

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Speaker 1: to be the starter. So when the ones come out

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Speaker 1: this week, next week, that guy's running with the ones

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Speaker 1: and getting him up to speed. The terminology is probably different.

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Speaker 1: It's like, hey, a new Spanish, you got to learn

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Speaker 1: Chinese now. Even though football, like the plays relatively are

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Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of similarities, the verbiage is different.

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Speaker 1: So getting him comfortable red might have meant one thing there,

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Speaker 1: and now green means what red used to mean. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm just using something pretty rudimentary, But it's really that

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Speaker 1: it can be confusing, and this is a good time

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Speaker 1: to work out any confusing level. And then obviously the

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Speaker 1: team bonding stuff. This is the time of year where

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Speaker 1: if you have teams in the NBA or the NHL,

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Speaker 1: where you see all these guys together at boxes, slamming beers,

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Speaker 1: where you see these guys throwing out first pitches at

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Speaker 1: whatever the baseball stadium is, all in a box, you know,

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Speaker 1: firing down chicken strips and shot gunning a beer while

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Speaker 1: they're on the jumbo tron like that shit matters. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: this is a team game and to do team bonding stuff.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully it just happens organically with your young players, your

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Speaker 1: older players, your new players. I do think that's important.

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Speaker 1: It really is. It doesn't make or break you if

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Speaker 1: you're not good enough. But it's pretty clear these teams

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Speaker 1: that win have pretty good cohesion, and that's something that

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Speaker 1: is on the GM because are you picking the right

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Speaker 1: type guys? Have you put a team together of like

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Speaker 1: minded individuals, because if you have, they'll get along. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, football teams a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: get along no matter what. But the closer they can

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Speaker 1: get during this time, especially with new faces, I think

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Speaker 1: the easier transition it is during training camp when it's

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Speaker 1: really hard and long and boring and monotonous and not

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Speaker 1: that fun. So this time of year is much more fun.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: It's like three day work weeks. You're doing all sorts

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Speaker 1: of shit. On the weekend, you get long breaks. Coaches

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Speaker 1: are working, you know, the equivalent for them of nine

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Speaker 1: to fives. Now, the coaches that aren't like Andy Reid

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Speaker 1: or Mike Tomlin or some of these guys, it's a

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Speaker 1: little chiller if you have a new coach either a

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Speaker 1: new head coach or new coordinators. It's obviously a little

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Speaker 1: more complicated to implement the scheme, get everyone on the

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Speaker 1: same page. There is more work to be done mentally,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the meetings are really big, right because

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Speaker 1: you're installing all this stuff. You don't want to install

427
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: too much, but you don't want to install well, not enough.

428
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: You want to make sure they understand it. You don't

429
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: want to go from A to F when they don't understand.

430
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: B and D.

431
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: So this is just it's a cool time for the scouts.

432
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: They're kind of kicking back. But some of your new

433
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: position coaches, and definitely your coordinators, it's a new time

434
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: and obviously all the new head coaches, good time to

435
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 1: get your feet under you. You know, this is a

436
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: good time. You're running the entire team. So when you

437
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: see a headline, hey, so and so got in trouble

438
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: or so and so got injured, Well, if you were

439
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator and it was a defensive guy, that

440
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: was never your problem. Like Mike McDonald or Brian Callahan

441
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: with the Titans, when someone on the opposite side of

442
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: the ball had an issue, they didn't really have to

443
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: think about it. Pedal of the metal. Just focus on

444
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: what they were focusing on. That comes to your desk now,

445
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: and you were going to lead the team meeting, you

446
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 1: have to deal with something off the field. So just

447
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: getting a little bit hell. Just a guy having an

448
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: awful day, guy who broke up with his girlfriend and

449
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: is an awful mental space. These are human being young

450
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: human beings. So these guys better figured out and better

451
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 1: figured it out fast because the season comes. There's no

452
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: waiting around. It's full go okay. Some other just NFL

453
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: stories that I kind of found interesting. Michael Rubin, who

454
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: is the Fanatics CEO president, created the company which has

455
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: obviously become a powerhouse company when it comes to a peril,

456
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: has a little bit of a dispute going on with

457
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: Marvin Harrison Junior and Marvin Harrison Junior, these guys are

458
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: claiming that he signed a deal up to a million

459
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: dollars and he did not complete his end of the bargain.

460
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: He didn't do anything. And Marvin Harrison Senior, who scouting buddies,

461
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: told me he plays a huge role in all this,

462
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: Like the reason Marvin did nothing during the pre draft

463
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: process wasn't Marvin's idea it was pops, and which is fine.

464
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: It's not your normal, just like it wouldn't be like

465
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: my dad if I was an NFL player giving me

466
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: advice like that, You've never been around the NFL. This

467
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: guy's a Hall of Famer, but this could It's gonna

468
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: get interesting because I don't think fanatics, who is very,

469
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: very dependent on their deals with the leagues, on deals

470
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: with the players, would just randomly sue like I think

471
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: this is. It's gonna be fascinating to watch the way

472
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: this plays out. It's not going to impact him on

473
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: the field. But you know, Marvin Harrison senior man, he's

474
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: playing a pretty big role in his son's life, which

475
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 1: is a good thing, but it can be complicated when

476
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: business gets involved. There was a picture that went viral

477
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: because Dave or not Dave Rubin Michael Rubin. I think

478
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: David Rubin's a podcaster. Michael Rubin had what he does

479
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: every year when these guys do this rookie shoot in

480
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. He has over the top rookies, mainly the quarterbacks.

481
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: I saw Malik Neighbors was there too, and he brings

482
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: like Tom Brady and Jay Z and it's cool. He

483
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: put out some clips of Tom given advice, Jay Z

484
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: given advice are all around like a probably a dinner table,

485
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: not a conference table, because it looked like it was

486
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: at his house. And there was a picture that kind

487
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: of went viral that the Patriots posted that Michael posted

488
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: that Drake May posted. Drake May is massive. Tom Brady's huge.

489
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: I think Tom Brady, I've walked around him, feels like

490
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: a six foot six I think technically at the combine

491
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: he measured in it like just a shade under six ' five.

492
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: He is a huge individual and Drake may look bigger

493
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: than him. Obviously Tom's skinnier now, but Drake May is

494
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: a massive, massive guy. And this gets back to betting

495
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: on the quote unquote intangibles or the tangibles, the size,

496
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: all that there is to work with. I understood it.

497
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: I understood it the whole time, and it's gonna be

498
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fascinating to watch how the Patriots play

499
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: out with him total access. The NFL network, I've been

500
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: saying this for a long time, has just mailed it in.

501
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: Now.

502
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: There's financial ramifications to this. I people often like the

503
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: NFL is making money hand over fist. How are they

504
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: just not trying with the NFL network. Well, yeah, if

505
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: one entity makes money, doesn't mean that you necessarily have

506
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: to keep pumping money into something else that is not

507
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: making money. I would consider myself, as we said in

508
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: the radio business, a p one, which is your most

509
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: loyal radio listeners, And I'm sure we have these now

510
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: on the podcast, people that listen to all the content.

511
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: A large percentage of people would be considered more casual.

512
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: They come in and they come out, depending on time,

513
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: depending on their schedule. Football is my life. It's how

514
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: I make a living. It's how I support my family.

515
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 1: It's how I put food on the table. I love it,

516
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: I think about it, I watch it. I never ever

517
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: watch NFL network ever. Now. I know Mike Yam who

518
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: hosted that show recently. He used to work at Pack twelve.

519
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: He's a stud. It sucks. There's a large percentage of

520
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: people that lose their job that aren't making much money,

521
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: production assistance people behind the scenes. But it's been pretty

522
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: clear for a while that the NFL does not give

523
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: a shit about this network. Good Morning Football, which I

524
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: think relative to their other properties, was relatively successful in

525
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: terms of ratings and people watching it, and had like

526
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: legit talent like Trager, Kyle Brandt. It's just on hiatus,

527
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: not going on. And I've said this over and over.

528
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: I noticed it at the gym. They just they're playing today.

529
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: I was at the gym this morning and I look

530
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: up and it's Steelers Titans. But not like from the

531
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: recent years. It was like when Jeff Fisher was the

532
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: Titans coach, which I actually if I was running the

533
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: network and we were doing a bunch of cost cutting.

534
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: Just replay games, replay cool games, like what the hell

535
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: is it? We own the we own the inventory. And

536
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that's what NFL Network's doing. If you

537
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: tell me they are not able to unload this network,

538
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: which is definitely up for debate. The ESPN and some

539
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: of these companies that they've tried to sell it to

540
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: have not pulled the trigger. I think you can just

541
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: run NFL games NonStop, and once the season starts, you

542
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: can just replay all the games for the weekend just

543
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: in order. I mean, just start bright and early Monday

544
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: morning and just play the crappier games to the good

545
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: games from Monday till Thursday. And it's pretty clear that's

546
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: probably what they're gonna do. And I kind of understand.

547
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: If people are not watching your network, that means you're

548
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: not making any money. And given that you have high

549
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: costs and you're paying people, probably losing money. So this

550
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: is not like some controversial business decision. Now you could

551
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: argue that is it important for NFL to have a network.

552
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: I would have said ten fifteen years ago, for sure,

553
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, I don't think it matters at all.

554
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: Daniel Jones, You never know. It all matters when you

555
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: get injured, your recovery time. I saw the forty nine ers.

556
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: They do this Matt Mayoko, longtime beat writer for the Niners,

557
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: works I think with the team, and they put on

558
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: this big Dwight Clark like yearly. It's kind of a

559
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: round table. They have a bunch of famous players come back.

560
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: Steve Young was there, Alex Smith was there, party, they

561
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: were all on stage. Dray Greenlaw was also there, and

562
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: he's like, I just really started walking pretty recently. I

563
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: mean he was hurt three months ago torn achilles. Daniel

564
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: Jones was hurt relatively early in the season, and he's

565
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: already participating in seven on sevens.

566
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: Right.

567
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: Look at Aaron Rodgers first game of the season. He's

568
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: gonna be ready for OTAs. So there's gonna be a

569
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: ton of pressure on this guy. No one's gonna care

570
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: that last year he towards ACL. He can't be as

571
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: bad as he was last year. They got no shot.

572
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: I don't have high hopes, but he's going to be

573
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: one of the major stories in the NFL all season long.

574
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: He's the New York Jets or New York Giants starting quarterback.

575
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: And let's face it, most people think he sucks. Most

576
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: people think he fleeces the Giants in a contract and

577
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: just isn't any good. When that is the narrative on

578
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: your career, you're not any good and you're making a

579
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: lot of money. If you got last year was ugly,

580
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: you'd get even uglier this year. Okay, here with longtime

581
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: NFL executive and current author, because he is writing books

582
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: left and right, Football Done Right, Gridiron Genius, and I'm

583
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: pretty sure he's typing as we speak on something new.

584
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: Michael Lombardi, how are you doing.

585
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: I'm great. No, I'm in a little bit of a

586
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 3: research phase. You know. I loved doing the research on

587
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: Football Done Right. That was a lot of fun. I

588
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 3: learned a lot about things I didn't know, you know,

589
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: And so this next book is kind of in the

590
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: early formula of stages. It's going to be about the

591
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: last five years from twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen at

592
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: the Patriots, when they went to three, they won three

593
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: super Bowls, went to four, lost the conference championship game.

594
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 3: I think you have to go back to the early

595
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: to the mid seventies of the Steeler dynasty to have

596
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: five of those really productive seasons that they had. So

597
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: I'm doing a lot of research on that, and it's

598
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: probably going to be at least two years before that

599
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: thing comes out. But it's fun to do the search,

600
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 3: go back and we live each year.

601
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: I know you you are a football historian, and I

602
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: while I'm younger, I get offended sometimes when like younger

603
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: analysts or former players act like some of these guys

604
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: from back in the day couldn't play now. I remember

605
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: being a GA at Fresno State and meeting me and

606
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: Joe Green and Mike you know him. I mean, his

607
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: hands are big as a as a grizzly bear. If

608
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: you think that guy wouldn't dominate today, or you know,

609
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: going to Warriors games, and meeting Jerry West. He's not

610
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: six two guys, I mean he's six eight. He'd be fine.

611
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, we have we don't appreciate it. But a

612
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: lot of that, John is the league doesn't really do

613
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: enough job of highlighting some of these guys you know

614
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: that were great. You know, we tend to think everything's

615
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 3: great today, and like, you know, use the example of

616
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: of Joe Green. I mean, Joe Green played at a

617
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: time where the three technique, the nose tackle, those guys

618
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: were really the dominant defensive lineman, whether in Merlin Olsen,

619
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 3: whether it was you know, Bob Lilly. You know, every

620
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 3: team had a tackle that could play the run but

621
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 3: could also rush the passer, and they were developing that.

622
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: And I think we've lost a little bit of that luster,

623
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 3: you know, because you know, the game shift a little bit,

624
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: you know, Alan Page, you know, you know, I mean

625
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: Larren Sapp was one of the elite players. I think

626
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 3: people tend to forget that as great as he was.

627
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't think we do a good enough job.

628
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 3: And some of the coaches too, I don't think we

629
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 3: give them enough credit. And I think that one of

630
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 3: the things I've learned over my career, a lot of

631
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: things I've learned is is the answers to most problems

632
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 3: are in the past. Everybody thinks that, you know, there's

633
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 3: going to be some new formation or some new element

634
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 3: or some new design, when you know, the nickel defense,

635
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: as I wrote about in Football Done Right, was invented

636
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 3: by Buddy Parker, who can't get in the Hall of Fame.

637
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: The two minute offense and defense was invented by Buddy Parker,

638
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: who can't get in the Hall of Fame, and he

639
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 3: won two titles with the Detroit Lions. So a lot

640
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: of it, too is we don't honor those you know,

641
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 3: like Buddy Parker was up for a vote this year

642
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: and didn't get in, And like I wrote about in Gridiron,

643
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 3: we don't have a criteria for it. Like we have

644
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 3: no criteria for what's who's a Hall of Fame coach.

645
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: We have a subjective criteria he is or he isn't.

646
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 3: If I were to say to you, you know, is

647
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 3: Pete Carroll a Hall of Fame coach? People would say, well,

648
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 3: he won a Super Bowl, But you know, I don't know.

649
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 3: Pete Carroll surely is an NFL he's you know, he's

650
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: won a Super Bowl, he had a high winning percentage,

651
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: he took his team to the playoffs, he lost to

652
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: Super Bowl. You know, but there's so many different you know, everybody,

653
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: you know, George Allen's in the Hall of Fame didn't

654
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 3: win a Super Bowl, only coach ten years, seventy percent

655
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: winning percentage, and Mike Holmgreen can't get in, Like it

656
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: makes no sense, which is probably why most of the

657
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 3: people that vote for the Hall of Fame didn't read

658
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 3: Football done right.

659
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: It's funny how the league changes when when I was

660
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: in the league, you know, a third down back was

661
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: you know, just an extra piece, a guy that could

662
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote catch the ball or the nickel corner was

663
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: just kind of a throwing guy who could play in

664
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: more of a confined area and had to be able

665
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: to stop the run. Now, if you can't catch the

666
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: ball out of the backfield, you're not on a roster,

667
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: right if you if you don't have multiple nickel corners,

668
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: you've got no chance. We talk a lot about where

669
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: things are going because the rule changes are not going

670
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: to be rolled back to physicality. Would you argue it's

671
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: only going to become more and more spread.

672
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: Out, Well, I think spread outs also creates problems. Like

673
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: let's talk about Chicago for a second. Right, they drafted

674
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 3: Doomsay in the first round. You know, they don't have

675
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: a really elite three technique, they don't have an elite

676
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 3: inside player, but they chose to go with another receiver

677
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 3: who's going to play in the slot. I think, you know,

678
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: we no longer define anything by downs. Everything's by personnel groupings,

679
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: and so when you want to spread people out, your

680
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 3: tackles have to be really good. Like Darnell Wright, the

681
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 3: first round pick, ten pick overall two years ago, He's

682
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: got to be a really good player if they're going

683
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: to be able to do that. You know, if he's

684
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: the right tackle, and who's the left tackle in Chicago.

685
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: So the more you spread, the more vulnerability you put

686
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: on the quarterback, the more ability the system has to

687
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 3: give the quarterback answers. I'm not sure that every every

688
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 3: coordinator has that solve. You know, there's always a beater somewhere.

689
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: I just feel like, you know, I feel like the

690
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: game is going to go back to being more under center.

691
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: I think it's going to come back to a little

692
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: bit of an older school mentality, and only because I

693
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: think it'll allow more balance within the framework of the offense.

694
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: You mentioned nickelbacks. Look, when I first started in the league,

695
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 3: it was the back's criteria was run, catch, block. We

696
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 3: graded a running back like we didn't grade, you know,

697
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 3: Barry Sanders on his blocking ability. We graded him on

698
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: his running, you know. But today a running back is

699
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 3: block first. If you can't pass protect, you're not playing.

700
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 3: You're just not playing catch and run. Running is the

701
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 3: last thing the back does because you can't put him

702
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: on the field if he doesn't catch it, if he

703
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 3: doesn't block. So I think you have to stay in

704
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 3: tuned to that, and we have. We're moving away from

705
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 3: from first down, second and third down to what personnel

706
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: groups on the field. So when you draft the Doomsay,

707
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 3: you're saying to everybody, we're going to be an eleven

708
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: team because you got Keenan Allen and you've got DJ Moore.

709
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 3: And if a Dooonsay standing next to Evra Flus did,

710
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 3: was it really worth the first pick and over all

711
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: the eighth pickover all night pick. So I think you

712
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 3: have to think of it that way.

713
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: You know, last time I talked to you, your son

714
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: was working for the Raiders and he now works for

715
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: the forty nine ers. And I know you've talked about

716
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: back when you worked in Cleveland the second time and

717
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: you interviewed Kyle Shanahan for the offensive coordinator.

718
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: Position, you were blown away.

719
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: You're like, this guy would be our head coach.

720
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: Should have been Yeah.

721
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you talk about old school football. Obviously the

722
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: Harbab Brothers or throwback group. I would say Kyle for

723
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: being a quote unquote younger coach is definitely a throwback.

724
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: His mentality so far. You're talking to your son that experience,

725
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: it's being around that operation. I heard you talking about this,

726
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: and it's been well reported that Kyle tapes everything, so

727
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: every meeting room is videoed and has a life. He

728
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: can listen to everything from his office, which you know,

729
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: I think around the league people be like what, but

730
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 1: he just wants to know what's going on, and everyone

731
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: says it's actually works very well. Everyone's on the same page.

732
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: How's your son's experience been so far?

733
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: I think it's been great. He's been really blessed in

734
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: his career. You know, he starts with Belichick and learns

735
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: personnel and then he you know, works with Jim Harball.

736
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 3: Then he comes back at the Jets and then he

737
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: goes back with Bill with Josh McDaniels. He knows that

738
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: system and now he's with Kyle. Look that taping thing

739
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 3: started with Walsh back in nineteen eighty six. I was taping.

740
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: I can still remember John Putting watching Bill install the

741
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 3: game plan when we were getting ready to go back

742
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 3: to New York and play the Giants in a playoff game.

743
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: And I was up there taping it and Coach was

744
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: going over who we were going to attack in the secondary,

745
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: how we were going to a tackle, and you know,

746
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 3: Herbie Walsh was a safety. We were going to really

747
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: go after a UCLA safety. And the first, I think

748
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 3: the second play of the game, we run a slant

749
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: with Jerry Rice, who gets one on one with Herbie

750
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 3: makes a mistres like Coach said he would do in

751
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: the tape, and then he fumbles the ball when he

752
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 3: changes it from one hand to the other and it

753
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: goes through the end zone and then we got off

754
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 3: to a forty nine to three ass kicking. But that

755
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: taping was really important because it allowed coaches and allowed

756
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: players to if they missed a meeting or they missed

757
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 3: something in a meeting, they go back and watch it,

758
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 3: and it really kept things in tune. And I think

759
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: it's really important. As I mentioned on my podcast, if

760
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 3: I were back in the league, I would take every

761
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: personnel meeting everyone, I would take Draft Day and I

762
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 3: would go back and watch Draft Day again, because there's

763
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 3: so many things that happened that our memories have a

764
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: different way of going through it. Like what I think

765
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 3: about I just mentioned Warren Sap. When I think about

766
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: the Warren Sap Draft about you know, We're sitting there

767
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 3: at the ninth pick in the first round. We're talking

768
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: about taking you know, Kyle Brady at the tight end

769
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 3: because we needed one and we had moved up, and

770
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 3: you know, and Brady goes right in front of us

771
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: after you know, the Jets took Johnny Mitchell the year before,

772
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 3: they come back and take Brady the next year. And

773
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: so there we are sitting with Warren sat and we

774
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: have this huge trade, Like I would have loved to

775
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: have seen that, just to go through it. And then

776
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 3: later when we moved down, we made a great trade.

777
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 3: We moved down to the bottom of the first we're

778
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: debating between Curtis Martin and and a linebacker at Craig

779
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: Powell from Ohio State, and the rationale, how we got

780
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: to it, that horrible mistake and we take Martin at

781
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 3: twenty seven, twenty eight, whatever it was, we would have

782
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: gotten the Hall of Fame back. Instead we got a

783
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 3: guy that didn't play. And you know, and that those

784
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: are the things you need to analyze. And I think

785
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: people get so caught up with well, you're just looking

786
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: a second guests. No, you're looking to learn.

787
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny the draft happens and there's so

788
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: much hype around the high picks. And I remember being

789
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: a training camp Parties rookie year and i've because of

790
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: his draft status, they just kind of inserted Trey Lance

791
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: as the starter. But you could tell Kyle was a

792
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: little uncomfortable and the players were uncomfortable. And this little guy,

793
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: he's taking third string reps, is just making plays and

794
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: in the games, in the preseason games he was and

795
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: I understand it was second half preseason, but he made

796
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: he was good, and he made the team and kind

797
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: of the rest is history. You know, Jared Goff just

798
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: got a massive contract. Yeah, and if you look at

799
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: the numbers, you know, I mean, parties in line, like,

800
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, talk to your son. How much they value

801
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: this guy and the emotional maturity and obviously his physical gifts.

802
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: But Jared Goff can't move and he doesn't have the

803
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: biggest arm. H What do you think is the reason

804
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: for brock Purty's success? Is it simply Kyle I've defended

805
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: him and I know you have to just watch the

806
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: guy play. I mean, he's a really good player.

807
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,959
Speaker 3: He's got great instincts, his arms tied to his feet.

808
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: He you know, he can anticipate throws. Look, you use

809
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: the word, you know they trust them, But just watch

810
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 3: the tape. I mean you watched the tape. They allow

811
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 3: him to do things within the framework of that offense

812
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 3: that shows they have confidence in his ability to make

813
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 3: the place they're not calling place to protect them. I

814
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 3: think we don't do you know, you haven't scouted. Probably

815
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 3: see this as I see it. But so many times

816
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: during gains, the announcers don't understand that the coach is

817
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: protecting the quarterback, not being conservative. There's a huge difference

818
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 3: between that. You know, earlier in the year, Matt Lafleur

819
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 3: was protecting Jordan Love. By the end of the year,

820
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 3: he was allowing them to play in the game, and

821
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 3: so there's a difference between how they call the game

822
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 3: of what they do. And I think that you can

823
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: see from Kyle's play calling they're not protecting this kid

824
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: at all. They're letting them play, and they should because

825
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: he's really good. You know, we just have a hard times.

826
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: There's certain movements that I can't explain. You know, there's

827
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 3: the Justin Fields movement that has created the sensation in

828
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 3: the NFL that no matter you know, how you look

829
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 3: at the evidence, even on the analytical side, you can't

830
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 3: get people to believe that he's not a great quarterback

831
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 3: yet and there's no evidence that he is. He's won

832
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 3: ten games. And then there's the Trey Lance conglomerate that

833
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 3: just keeps going that nobody wants to buy into that.

834
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 3: You know, he's not a rhythm thrower. And I don't

835
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 3: understand how brock Perdy isn't, like Kurt Warner, a great

836
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: success story, but for some reason, nobody wants to acknowledge

837
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 3: brock Perdy except for the forty nine ers.

838
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: I think the moment you don't get drafted high, especially

839
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: way down, you know, in the fifth, sixth, seventh round,

840
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: no one wants to embrace you. People forget people think

841
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: Brady early, well, early on in his career. Remember he

842
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: was not as good as Peyton, even though it was

843
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: pretty clear early like the guy was pretty good. You know,

844
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: if Trey Lance had done what brock Perdy did his

845
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: first couple of years, we'd be talking about him like

846
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: the next John Elway.

847
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, we'd be It'd be would be it

848
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: would be Tim Tebow nausea. It would be over the top.

849
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I mean, it would be brutal.

850
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: We'd have to read about it every single day, just

851
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 3: like we have to read about that Miami signed Odell

852
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 3: Beckham and Stefan Diggs is in Houston, like they're getting

853
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 3: the career. They're getting two players that you know, we

854
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 3: don't turn the clock back. We just think they're still great.

855
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: Jordan Love.

856
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: You know, the second half of the season, it's hard.

857
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: You watch them, You're like, holy shit. But from a

858
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: financial standpoint, my take has always been I would play

859
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: it another couple of months. I'd have no problem extending

860
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: him during the season, but I'd like to see a

861
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: little more before we just give some enormous contract on

862
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: a really, really short body of work. What would be

863
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: your approach if you were running the packers when it

864
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: came to because you might be able to get them

865
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: on quote unquote a little discount if you threw a

866
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: lot of money on him, But if it didn't go

867
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: well and he took a step back, you'd be in

868
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: a little trouble.

869
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you have him this year, and you

870
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: got the franchise tech next year, So you have him

871
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: for two years at you know, whatever number you want

872
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: to at. Right, So you got them at this year

873
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: because they redid the they redid the fifth year, and

874
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: then then you have the franchise number. And let's be clear,

875
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: you know, if Golf's getting fifty three million, you know,

876
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 3: then what's Prescott going to get? You know what is

877
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: you know what what's the next guy in line going

878
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 3: to get? You know? And well Purdy, you know all

879
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 3: of them. I'm Purty's got two more years and he

880
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 3: can't touch his contract, you know, So he got two

881
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 3: more years, plus they have a franchise number they can

882
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 3: get Purty. So they got essentially three years built in

883
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: there to get a contract, and it's only going to

884
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: go up. But look, let's face it, the revenue streams

885
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 3: are going up too. I think I would be rather patient,

886
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 3: But I see enough of love that you believe that

887
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: he's going to be a good player. I don't think

888
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 3: it's about the scoreboard. I think it's about really, if

889
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 3: you're Brian Guducus, is you want to be able to

890
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: see one of the Walls quotes, which is the second

891
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 3: year the players in the system, he becomes better. That's

892
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 3: what happened to Kyler Murray. Right, Kyler Murray's second year,

893
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: he didn't really get better. He had the really good

894
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 3: beat where he's running around making a lot of plays

895
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 3: on loose plays. But once people started to rush him

896
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 3: the right way where they didn't let their ends run

897
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: up the field, where they closed the pocket down, they

898
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: forced him to his left if he had to get out,

899
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden he wasn't the same player.

900
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 3: And so I think what you want to see is

901
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: is what steps the love take the second year is

902
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 3: in the system, And once you see that, then I

903
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 3: don't think you should hold back. You should go.

904
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things on the draft. Do you

905
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: think the Patriots clearly they you know, we're very dead

906
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: set on taking a quarterback. But we're even more validated

907
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: when Brian Davel, who worked with Josh Allen, and then

908
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: Kevin O'Connell both really wanted Drake May that it's you

909
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: can't make that move as a personnel guy if you

910
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: already liked the guy, and those are the two guys

911
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: that really like your guy as well, it's a no brainer.

912
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: You just sick there, no matter that. I mean, you're

913
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: getting offered eleven twenty three in the future one. That

914
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: is a lot.

915
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 3: It is. But you know, now the Giants claim they

916
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 3: were they're trying to trade to to get Joe Allen,

917
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 3: I mean, but then they made no attempt to trade

918
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 3: with the Cardinals to get it. It's unbelievable, like they

919
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 3: think we're actually stupid. You know. Look, I think they

920
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 3: were going to pick them, whether Brian liked him or not.

921
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 3: I think that if you know Elliott and you know

922
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 3: his background, size, speed, you know, those are the things

923
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: I mean, Mays and tangibles. He'll work hard. You know.

924
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 3: Sometimes the job of a scout is to see what

925
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 3: other people don't. And if you just grade production then

926
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 3: that's one thing, but you have to be able to

927
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: see and visualize something moving forward, and I didn't see

928
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 3: maybe what Elliott saw as deeply in May, where Brian

929
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: did or Dave Ball did, or Kevin O'Connell did. But

930
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 3: I think to me that was going to be the pick,

931
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 3: no matter if they wanted them or not. There was

932
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 3: no way they could trade that. There wasn't an The

933
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: alternative would have been McCarthy, and they had no way

934
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 3: of knowing they can get McCarthy. You end up being

935
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 3: like a boat out at sea, and you without without

936
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 3: a compass, you don't know if get back. So let's

937
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: hypothetically say they went to eleven. Right now, you know

938
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: that nobody had any thought that Atlanta was going to

939
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 3: take Pennox at eight, and so now you're trying to

940
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 3: get back to get you what happens if you come

941
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: out of there with all these picks and no quarterback?

942
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 3: Where are you?

943
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: Did you see the clip going viral of Jade Daniels

944
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: and Drake May both throwing basically the same seam route,

945
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: and Jaden's ball was almost in the guy's hands before Drake,

946
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: because of his loopy release, kind of got rid of it.

947
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 1: And it's just and I'm all four taking a big

948
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 1: swing on a project. But now you have the project

949
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: and kind of have to fix it. I mean part

950
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: of Josh Allen the project or Patrick Mahomes was then

951
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: that period of time of developing them. And you look

952
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: at the Patriots you go, well, new regime. This coach

953
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 1: was doing media five years ago. He's a linebacker seven

954
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: years ago. I mean it's this is going to be

955
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: a big, big time challenge for that organization with this player,

956
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: is it not?

957
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 3: Well? The other thing is too, is you know when

958
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: you bring Patrick Mahomes into it, right, you knew that

959
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 3: Andy Reid was going to be the guy that was

960
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 3: detailing the player development of Patrick Mahomes. But in New England,

961
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 3: the detailed player development is coming from Alex van Pelt.

962
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: And what happens see, I don't think we asked this

963
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 3: question enough. What has to be true for this, for

964
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 3: this to be successful? What has to be true for

965
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 3: Drake may to be a great player. And part of

966
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: what has to be true is Alex van Pelt has

967
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 3: to do a really good job of development in this fundamentals,

968
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: techniques and getting him groved into the offense. That has

969
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 3: to be true because if he doesn't, then he's going

970
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: to be all over the board. That's the challenge, right.

971
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 3: And so because Mayo doesn't coach offense, defense, or the

972
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 3: kicking game, that he just is basically in charge of

973
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: the team. You could potentially see a new offensive coordinator

974
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: if things don't go well in a year or two,

975
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 3: and now where are you and now you're changing things again.

976
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: That's why player development is so reliant upon who the

977
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: head coaches and what the systems are. And when you're

978
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 3: hiring coaches to put their system in and the organization

979
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: doesn't have one, then you have a lot of propensity

980
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: to make mistakes.

981
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: I thought one of the most laughable pre draft kind

982
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: of conversations was the Chargers taking a wide receiver. It's like,

983
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: have any of you guys watched this guy operate for

984
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: fifteen years?

985
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 3: Larry?

986
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: He might have passed on Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson

987
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: if they were there, if he thought the offensive lineman

988
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: was good enough, especially in this wide receiver class. I

989
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: just don't think Pete like we've all watched him win

990
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: big without superstar wide. When's the last time Michigan had

991
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: a star wide receiver?

992
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:35,439
Speaker 3: Right?

993
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 1: Well, he wonted San Francisco with fifty year old Randy Moss.

994
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 3: Look, Bill Wall said, the last position you chicked on

995
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 3: your team as the wide receiver position. He's in the

996
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame.

997
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 1: Has that changed a little bit though, you think.

998
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's changed at all. I mean,

999
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: look at look at green Bay. Look at green Bay.

1000
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 3: Who's got a better receiving core than green Bay has?

1001
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: I mean, think about it. You know, everybody says, well,

1002
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 3: the quarterback. You know, the receivers make the quarterback. Look

1003
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 3: at green Bay's receiving room. That's pretty freaking good, you know.

1004
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 3: And so they're the least amount of money spent on

1005
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 3: wide receivers in the league. You know, they don't seem

1006
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: to have a problem throw in the football. I don't

1007
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 3: think it's changed at all. I think it's re enhanced

1008
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 3: itself because the offensive lineman is so critical. Look, everybody

1009
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: sits there and says, you know, the receiver makes the quarterback. Now,

1010
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 3: I know arm On, but he was a fifth round pick.

1011
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 3: He got paid a lot of money. But you know,

1012
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: you tell me how great the receivers are on Detroit.

1013
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 3: They're good. Hockinson's good. I mean, they're good. They got players,

1014
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, But the reality of the situation

1015
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 3: is is that they are. I mean the floor more tight,

1016
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 3: the porter that they get, you know, they get open,

1017
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 3: they make plays, the golf gets in the ball. I

1018
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 3: don't think it's changed. I mean, look again, if you're

1019
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 3: Chicago and you can't protect Caleb Williams that he's going

1020
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 3: to get hit and you're an eleven, I don't understand it.

1021
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: But look, you get applauded if you take a wide

1022
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 3: receiver today because most of the people doing the apping

1023
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 3: are Madden fans. They want to play in their it's

1024
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 3: a Madden game when the game is won by the

1025
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 3: teams that can win the line. I mean, Kansas City's

1026
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 3: traded Tyreek Hill. They've won two Super Bowls. Nobody talks

1027
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 3: about it. I mean people are talking about Kansas City

1028
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 3: is going to go back and they're going to win

1029
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 3: another Super Bowl and like they act like, oh, well,

1030
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: they got this great receiving room. No they don't. They

1031
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 3: got Patrick Mahomes. That's the receiving room.

1032
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: People ask me a lot, is there anything with the

1033
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: Rice situation that the Chiefs could have done? And I said, well,

1034
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: this isn't college. The moment the season ends, you got

1035
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: some time. And this goes back to the draft where

1036
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: you got to feel comfortable with the player. It's not

1037
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: like they can hold his hand in March, April and

1038
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: even early May if he's not around the facility. What's

1039
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: your thoughts on just that situation. When you get a

1040
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: player with some question marks in the past, the moment

1041
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: the season ends, you kind of just hold onto your ass.

1042
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 3: Well, they've been lucky with this John, They've been really

1043
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: lucky with it. They take Tyreek Kill when he was

1044
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 3: on nobody's board. I mean maybe he might have been

1045
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 3: on Reggie McKenzie's board at the Raiders. I think that

1046
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 3: was the only other team he was on their board

1047
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 3: because of his behavior at Oklahoma State got thrown out

1048
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 3: it he couldn't even roll an acron, couldn't enroll at

1049
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 3: West Alabama, but he got drafted by the Chiefs. You know,

1050
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 3: Kelsey had some issues in terms of off the field,

1051
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 3: which obviously were wrong, but they took him in the

1052
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: third round, right, you know, And they've been able Chris Jones.

1053
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 3: The only reason he's the second round pick is because

1054
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 3: some people thought he wasn't a hard you know, all

1055
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 3: the things off the field, they've been very fortunate of

1056
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 3: how they built their team of managing this and it's

1057
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 3: a credit to them. And so you know, whatever Rice

1058
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 3: is within his background was probably there at SMU and

1059
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,479
Speaker 3: they chose that they felt that they could deal with it. Now,

1060
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 3: you know, if they don't have Rice, I mean they

1061
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 3: take Tony and give up a draft pick. Now Tony,

1062
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 3: you know, Tony's a guy that again, does he love football?

1063
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 3: Is he going to make their rooms? So now you've

1064
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 3: got Hollywood Brown as their receiver, and you got Worthy

1065
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 3: who's one hundred and sixty pounds. Is he going to

1066
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 3: be a full time player? And he got Kelsey at

1067
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 3: thirty six years old. You tell me that receiving room

1068
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 3: is really good. Hollywood Brown's always been talked about as

1069
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: being a number one guy, but he's never produced that

1070
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: way at all.

1071
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: I think they're a defensive team now, right, That's right.

1072
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 3: That's right, That's exactly right they are. And that's the

1073
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 3: point of this conversation is is that they've changed who

1074
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 3: they are. They're going to win up front. You know,

1075
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 3: they have a huge, huge question market left tackle, but

1076
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 3: they're going to get Pajeco more. I mean Pachecko was

1077
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 3: carrying the bout seven more times in the playoffs. After

1078
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: the Christmas Day game, Pachecko's load management increased by seven

1079
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 3: carries a game compared to earlier in the year.

1080
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: Locker room dynamics. I know something you being around Bill

1081
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: Forever talked a lot about something that Falcons clearly didn't value.

1082
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: And Bill, We've all talked a lot about the Cousins

1083
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 1: situation from a financial standpoint, but from a locker room standpoint.

1084
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: He can't practice in OTAs. So who's out there taking

1085
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: the reps with a bunch of young, impressionable offensive skill guys. Pennix.

1086
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 1: Pennix is not some project. He's like a six year

1087
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 1: starter in college football. The locker room dynamics and Cousins,

1088
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: the high character guy who's historically a little sensitive, doesn't

1089
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: this have the chance to get really weird, really fast internally,

1090
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: no matter what Raheem Morris can do to talk to

1091
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: the guys.

1092
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think to me, it's about the quarterbacks.

1093
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 3: Personality has to come out in the team. It's in

1094
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 3: Kansas City, it's in Cincinnati, it's in Buffalo, right, and

1095
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 3: so you know, I think there's no question that it's

1096
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 3: hard to have two leaders. I mean, Walsh did this

1097
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: in San Francisco. Remember he rotated Steve Young and Joe Montana,

1098
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 3: and finally Ronnie Lott went to him and said, Bill,

1099
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 3: we need a starter, we need one guy. We need

1100
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 3: to know who we're counting on. And he went with

1101
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 3: Montana and he trained him after the next season. So yeah,

1102
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 3: this never has worked having two quarterbacks, and no matter.

1103
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 3: Everybody thinks the second quarterbacks better than the first, and

1104
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 3: most I mean, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure you

1105
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 3: know the backup quarterback is probably most people at the

1106
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 3: Giants think Tommy the Veto might be better than pay

1107
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: Dot Daniel Jones. I don't, but I'm just saying that,

1108
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 3: you know there could be. So you just created a

1109
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 3: situation and then you didn't have It's two years in

1110
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 3: a row. Now you don't help your defense at all. Like,

1111
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 3: are you watching the NFL? Are you watching the NFL?

1112
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 3: Do you study the NFL to understand what wins games?

1113
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 3: You know? Forget about you know, you draft a running

1114
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 3: back who's a really good player, but you had you

1115
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 3: had Algier there average five yards of character. You didn't

1116
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 3: need another running back. Now I'm sure they're gonna blame

1117
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 3: Arthur Smith for this. But the reality of it is

1118
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 3: is you passed a legitimately great three technique, a legitimately

1119
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 3: great three technique in Jalen Carter. Now you live right

1120
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 3: down the street from them. If you don't, if you

1121
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 3: didn't like his character because you know more about anybody, Okay,

1122
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 3: maybe that's the case, but I'm not sure that that is.

1123
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 3: And then this year you pass you know, you passed

1124
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 3: Latua or you pass Byron Murphy. I mean, those are

1125
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: two legitimate defensive front guys. So now you're saying you're

1126
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 3: twenty ninth in the National Football League and forcing turnovers

1127
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 3: last year, and you're just one player away. Kirk Cousins

1128
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: is going to fix all that for you, and you

1129
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 3: take Michael Pennix. I mean, where's the team building here?

1130
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: You know, the Jets and the Giants have been mainly

1131
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: terrible for the last decade plus. Obviously, John Marr is

1132
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: an impressive guy, but it's safe to say he got

1133
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: pretty heavily involved when it came to Daniel Jones. There

1134
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: was a story recently about the Jets wanting to hire

1135
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: a guy over Nathaniel Hackett. To me a coach or

1136
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: GM if you want a new offensive coordinator, you would

1137
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,479
Speaker 1: just fire your offensive coordinator hire a guy that feels

1138
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: like a Woody Johnson problem. Do you think the New

1139
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: York teams have an owner meddaling issue right now?

1140
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 3: Well, I think the Jets clearly do. I mean when

1141
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 3: he came when Woody Johnson came out and said that,

1142
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 3: you know, we've got trading Zach Wilson, and he had

1143
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 3: comments on all that. Yeah, I do. I think they have.

1144
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 3: The Jets are different in the sense that they were

1145
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 3: trying to manage a problem. They're trying to make everybody happy.

1146
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 3: They were trying to make their offense happy by hiring

1147
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 3: somebody over Aaron Over over Nathaniel Hackett. But but make

1148
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:14,479
Speaker 3: Aaron Rogers happy by not firing Nathaniel Hackett. And you can't.

1149
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 3: Nobody gets made happy anywhere. The Giants, I think have

1150
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 3: just been John has run the team. I've been saying

1151
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 3: this forever, and I like John. John's a really nice man,

1152
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 3: a genuinely nice human being. But I think it's a

1153
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: family run business, and I think they have a hard

1154
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 3: time of being objective about what they're doing, and they

1155
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 3: fall in love with players. And when they gave Daniel

1156
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 3: Jones that money last year for no reason other than

1157
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 3: the vindication of that they drafted them sixth overall. It

1158
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 3: was a mistake. I mean, if you go back and

1159
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 3: ask one simple question, why do we win and why

1160
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 3: do we lose? The Giants when they went to the

1161
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 3: playoffs didn't win because Daniel Jones was good. They won

1162
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 3: because they managed the game. They won in three dimensions.

1163
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 3: They played good offense and defense, cookkicking, get but he

1164
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 3: didn't carry the team. He didn't carry the team whatsoever.

1165
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 3: And who was going to sign him to that contract anyway?

1166
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 3: Who were you competing against Nobody?

1167
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: I think if they got a redo, you would have

1168
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: to give Saquon Barkley an extension because the running backs

1169
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: make such little money. It might have been thirty five

1170
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: million guaranteed franchise Daniel Jones and you would have been

1171
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: off it this year, and you would have still had

1172
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: the dynamic player at a relatively cheap price because of

1173
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: the you know, the deflation in running back contracts, and

1174
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: be rid of Daniel Jones instead. If you're stuck with

1175
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: this contract, I don't know about you. My I think

1176
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: they're going to be pretty bad. I mean, I think

1177
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: they're going to really struggle. They don't have a quarterback.

1178
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 3: You and I both know that. You know somebody's going

1179
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: to have a high pick next year, right, I mean

1180
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 3: not everybody's going ten and seven. Somebody's going to be bad.

1181
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 3: And look, when you go through it, I had this

1182
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 3: in my notes here. You know, when you go through

1183
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 3: all the quarterback in the white you know when you

1184
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 3: look at Daniel Jones's inability to throw the ball down

1185
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 3: the field, which has been horrible. Right, He's never averaged

1186
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 3: John He's never averaged over over seven yards per tentpt

1187
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 3: in his career. He's never averaged over seven yards per

1188
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 3: attempt in his career. So you're asking a he doesn't

1189
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 3: throw the ball down the field. And there's a thousand

1190
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 3: reasons why he can't throw the ball down the field.

1191
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 3: But you can't win with a quarterback who won't throw

1192
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 3: the ball. It's one of my biggest concerns that I

1193
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 3: was a huge, huge I was a huge Trevor Lawrence fan.

1194
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 3: But Lawrence doesn't throw the ball up the field either.

1195
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 3: It's a huge concern. But one of the things is

1196
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 3: Larren Sharp put this out and you know this is

1197
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 3: based off of clutch quarterbacks with the last five minutes

1198
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 3: since two thousand, okay, and you have to have at

1199
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 3: least forty five minimum attempts in this category, and when

1200
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 3: you go through it, I mean, Daniel Jones is forty

1201
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 3: second out of fifty six. Davis Mills is actually ahead

1202
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 3: of them, Mac Jones is ahead of them, you know,

1203
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 3: Mike Lennon, Andy Dalton's ahead of him, Carson Wentz is

1204
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 3: ahead of him, Kenny Pickett's actually ahead of him. So, like,

1205
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 3: I don't understand how anybody thinks that this guy is

1206
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 3: going to be good and that he's coming off of

1207
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 3: a neck injury. I think it's a problem. I don't

1208
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 3: think they're good either. I think they're changing what they're

1209
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 3: doing defensively. They want to play Tampa, they want to

1210
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: play Ben, but don't break. They're going to be trying

1211
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 3: to stay within the game and not blitz and do

1212
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 3: all that. Okay, but at some point you want to

1213
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 3: get off the field. You got to play Manda Mann

1214
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: and you got to have much for the past.

1215
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: Totally agree. I went back and look at some clips

1216
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: of bo Nicks the other day, and I was around

1217
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: Derek for a little bit at Fresno State and obviously

1218
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: when Jimmy came out watched some of his college stuff,

1219
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: I see some similarities with those two guys. And historically

1220
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: that type player usually went somewhere between thirty and fifty,

1221
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: kind of in that range. In this new world we

1222
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: live in, he ends up going in the top fifty team.

1223
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: But why can't that work? Well, why wouldn't he work

1224
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: with Sean Payton When you look at some of these guys,

1225
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Jaden Daniels is going to a defensive head

1226
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: coach with Cliff Kingsbury, who I know. He gets a

1227
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: lot of hype. It seems like a nice guy, but

1228
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: he's not really my style of offensive coordinator. You've got

1229
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: Drake May going to a defensive head coach, even Caleb

1230
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: Williams going to a defensive head coach. This guy gets

1231
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: to go to Sean Payton and his skill set, accuracy, timing,

1232
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: getting rid of the ball. Actually came away thinking everyone's

1233
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: talking a bunch of crap about this pick. I'm like,

1234
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: I actually think it might have a chance to have

1235
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: a little success.

1236
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 3: Well, I have faith in Sean Payton. He's developing the player. Again,

1237
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 3: it goes back to who's developing the player? And that's

1238
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 3: the critical component of this whole conversation is who is

1239
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 3: doing that and Sean's going to do what's right for

1240
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 3: the offense, what's right for the quarterback. One of the

1241
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 3: things people don't understand about Shawn's offense is what he

1242
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 3: couldn't get Russell to do is to he programs it

1243
01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 3: so the quarterback is I don't want to call him,

1244
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 3: but there's a level of roboticness into play. You move

1245
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 3: your feet to this area, you throw the ball here.

1246
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 3: Everything his feet armed coordinated, which is what bo Nix

1247
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 3: was really good at doing. You could see it in

1248
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 3: org tape. His feet and his arm were tied together.

1249
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 3: And so because of it, you know Sean's going to

1250
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 3: call the game and so that he sets him up

1251
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:24,959
Speaker 3: for success, and I think it will work. I'm look.

1252
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 3: I think what the biggest misconception is is every you know,

1253
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 3: every when you say a quarterback has to be managed,

1254
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 3: you know that that's like a knock. It's not every

1255
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 3: quarterback with the even Patrick Mahomes at time last year

1256
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: turned the ball over wait too much. They cut back

1257
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 3: on that. You got to run the right system for

1258
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 3: the player to enhance his skill set. You know, and

1259
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 3: then the player looks better. You know, look at GOFF

1260
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: and the Detroit system, where that when GoF was playing

1261
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 3: in the RAMS system. What's the difference between Golf and

1262
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 3: Detroit and GOFF in Los Angeles? The line in the

1263
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 3: go if GoF gets hit earlier in a game, it

1264
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 3: ain't going to be good. Whether you pay them fifty

1265
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 3: three million or whether you pay them thirteen million. You

1266
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 3: got to protect GoF. You got to protect GoF, and

1267
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 3: you got to give golf and you've got to protect golf,

1268
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 3: and you've got to give them answers. And if the

1269
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 3: and where the RAMS were spending money, that line started

1270
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 3: to fall apart. And when they didn't have that, you know,

1271
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 3: he started getting hit and you know that bothered him.

1272
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get you out of here on this. I

1273
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: get asked a lot by young people, as I'm sure

1274
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: you do, just just career advice, just big picture stuff.

1275
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: And you've had a lot of success in your career.

1276
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: You've been around arguably the most successful people in the

1277
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: history of the NFL. Your sons are working at a

1278
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: high level, you know, and my take always is the

1279
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: faster you can do what you're passionate about because you're

1280
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: going to have to work to be successful at whatever

1281
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,439
Speaker 1: a lot. So it's so much easier to work when

1282
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: you enjoy what you're doing, because eventually work becomes work.

1283
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: When people ask like, hey, I'm young, I'm not quite

1284
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: sure I want to work in football, or you know,

1285
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: I don't really love my job. I what's just a

1286
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: good just big picture advice you try to give to

1287
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: younger people trying to make their way in this crazy world.

1288
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Speaker 3: So find your passion early, don't worry about making money,

1289
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 3: and remember that wisdom doesn't come from experience, it comes

1290
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 3: from learning and education. And become an educated football person

1291
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 3: and study the game, study the history of the game,

1292
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,439
Speaker 3: learn the game from all out levels, not just from

1293
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 3: one point of view. And you've got to keep learning

1294
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 3: the game every single day because if you don't, it's

1295
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 3: going to passion. And I think that's really what it

1296
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 3: comes down to. I think you have to be willing

1297
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 3: to sacrifice short term money for long term gain.

1298
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: Do you think that's a similarity that most successful people have.

1299
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: They're not as consumed young with money. It's about the

1300
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: big picture.

1301
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 3: You got to have a passion, right, You got to

1302
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 3: believe in what you're doing. You got to love it

1303
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 3: because you're you know, like you're going to go to

1304
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 3: work and it's not going to be fun some days

1305
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 3: where you know, because you're losing because of the outside noise.

1306
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 3: It's not because it's not fun. You have to listen

1307
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 3: to the outside noise. The people that have no idea

1308
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 3: what they're talking about that they have always opinions.

1309
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: Well, Michael, I appreciate the time and thanks a lot.

1310
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: Have a great week and you enjoy the summer.

1311
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 3: Appreciate it. Thank you, John, Okay, thanks to Lombardi for

1312
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 3: coming on.

1313
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,839
Speaker 1: Appreciate everyone listening. Hopefully everyone's having a good week and

1314
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Speaker 1: I will talk to you tomorrow. The volume