Speaker 1: We're starting another episode of Diamonds in the Rough. I
Speaker 1: love that. Me and Erica we're having what we rat
Speaker 1: just a small rant, a private rant, and then we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: should we get started. Our producer goes.
Speaker 2: Oh, we're rolling.
Speaker 1: Thanks, thanks, Jeff Lewis Junior.
Speaker 2: Oh oh, well, all right, so welcome back to our
Speaker 2: second episode of Diamonds in the Rough. And I hope
Speaker 2: you liked the first one because we've got some more
Speaker 2: coming for you.
Speaker 1: We've got some more. People really loved it. They loved hearing.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't even know if it's a softer
Speaker 1: side to each of us, but hearing a side of
Speaker 1: some of the questions that people haven't really gotten into.
Speaker 1: And I talked about this on to Cheese and a
Speaker 1: Pod with Tam. I said, sometimes what's really annoying when
Speaker 1: you're watching a housewife shows. Somebody will share information and
Speaker 1: then nobody asks the question back because they're so worried
Speaker 1: about what they're going to promote. Yes, so you don't
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of a lot of things that
Speaker 1: I actually think are interesting because the other person's being
Speaker 1: so selfish that they're like, hold on, to get hold.
Speaker 2: On, let me say what I need to say. Hold on,
Speaker 2: let me say what I need to say.
Speaker 1: What's what's new? What is new?
Speaker 2: Oh? Downstairs, you know I have an electric car. I
Speaker 2: have an electric Porsche, by the way, and I just
Speaker 2: like saying that. But all the ev spots were taken
Speaker 2: up by Tesla's and I was a little because I
Speaker 2: don't have I should have plugged in my car at home,
Speaker 2: and it was on my to do list, But somehow
Speaker 2: or another I got caught up in watching other podcasts
Speaker 2: on YouTube, nothing like ours, but something different, and I
Speaker 2: just was watching it all night long and I forgot
Speaker 2: to plug in my car, and then downstairs they didn't
Speaker 2: have any spots for me. It's okay, I'm rude. I'll
Speaker 2: make it home.
Speaker 1: I listening to this book. This is just off topic,
Speaker 1: but it's the it's what's it called Dinner with Vampires? Oh?
Speaker 2: What's that?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? It's about is it? No, it's a
Speaker 1: true it's a memoir.
Speaker 2: It's your family, hold on life, Dinner Vampires.
Speaker 1: Starring But it's at Bethany joy Lyn's from One Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dinner for Vampires. It's been on the New York Times
Speaker 1: bestseller list multiple times. But I started listening to it
Speaker 1: because it was about being in a religious cult and
Speaker 1: uh Jesus, she married like the son of like the
Speaker 1: head cult leader and it was the girl from One
Speaker 1: Tree Hill and she was an actress. It's really good
Speaker 1: and like not being in narcissistic relationships like it was.
Speaker 1: It's really good. You should listen.
Speaker 2: I watch a lot of those docs on cult leaders
Speaker 2: and it is fascinating the way like normal people, I
Speaker 2: mean seemingly normal people get really involved in these cults
Speaker 2: like that TikTok dance cult.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, that one was a good one.
Speaker 2: Did you see the Mother God one where she where.
Speaker 1: She was drinking like ten, she turned.
Speaker 2: Green, she turned silk up blue codial silver yeah, yeah
Speaker 2: whatever whatever silver colid. Yes, and then they drove around
Speaker 2: with her body in the in the with the Christmas
Speaker 2: lights and ship. I mean, it's possible because you are
Speaker 2: in a psychotic state. But also I think what you're
Speaker 2: channeling some god and I don't know if it's our
Speaker 2: God or there got whatever.
Speaker 1: But that so many people are impressionable or feel so alone.
Speaker 1: Yes that they.
Speaker 2: Are, and they're in a vulnerable place. Yeah, they're in
Speaker 2: a vulnerable place, or they don't have a sense of
Speaker 2: belonging anythink.
Speaker 1: And what what Joylynn said was she you know, has
Speaker 1: been an actor since she was a little kid, and
Speaker 1: you know, she grew up in the church and she
Speaker 1: had had kind of this harder, harder life going up
Speaker 1: because she was an introvert, and then she would do
Speaker 1: all for acting and then the church wouldn't really accept her.
Speaker 1: And she started this. Originally it was just kind of
Speaker 1: like a Bible study, okay, and then it turned it
Speaker 1: into something out yeah, and it just it made me
Speaker 1: think about like what we're talking about through this through
Speaker 1: on Diamonds in the Rough. It's like sometimes when you
Speaker 1: are on television, sometimes when you have to put on
Speaker 1: this persona.
Speaker 2: And it is that it's a persona, it's a performance.
Speaker 2: It's an outward facing public persona. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That then sometimes you're so desperate to connect or to
Speaker 1: feel sure.
Speaker 2: And people it's it's a strange place because I think
Speaker 2: sometimes people assume and being on reality TV is such
Speaker 2: a different thing. Like I don't get to take this
Speaker 2: character named Erica off, like she lives with me, I
Speaker 2: am she I just like you don't get to take
Speaker 2: Teddy off and put her in the corner and oh
Speaker 2: that was a role I'm playing and I'm actually this
Speaker 2: other person. No, And when people meet you out and
Speaker 2: they fully they fully accept what they seen on television,
Speaker 2: and you can't be anything other than that. And that's
Speaker 2: sometimes hard to live with.
Speaker 1: And you can't even really if you show, if you
Speaker 1: show emotion, you've shared too much, or you're you're trying
Speaker 1: to get attention, or you're trying to get back on
Speaker 1: a show, or you're looking for cloud or it's you're thirsty.
Speaker 1: But if you don't share enough, you're boring. You're boring
Speaker 1: or you know what, you're a hypocrite because you're not sharing.
Speaker 1: It's it's such are you're hiding? I mean, all of it.
Speaker 1: We've gotten every single criticism you can, you could you
Speaker 1: could possibly get. But a lot of this episode we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about, like when we first came out here,
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a little bit about nepotism. But first,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about just headlines that we've seen.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1: You want to take the first one.
Speaker 2: Sure. Beyonce Blue Ivy coordinate in their golden gowns as
Speaker 2: they bring a strong bond to Mufasa. On Monday, December ninth,
Speaker 2: Blue Ivy in her mother Beyonce walk the Red carpet
Speaker 2: premiere form of Fasa The Lion King, and in a
Speaker 2: video that's circulating on TikTok that starts with the Blue
Speaker 2: Ivy taking photos alone, Beyonce comes in to also be
Speaker 2: in one of the pictures, and to some viewers that
Speaker 2: looked like Blue was annoyed for her mom like kind
Speaker 2: of interfering with her moment. People online felt like Blue
Speaker 2: should be thankful that she has the nepotism available to
Speaker 2: walk on that red carpet. What do you think?
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's also another piece to this puzzle.
Speaker 1: She's a teenager. She's one a teenager.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a teenager, and she's also a human being
Speaker 2: outside of being Beyonce and jay Z's Yeah, like I think.
Speaker 1: About my kids and it doesn't matter if I'm in
Speaker 1: a red carpet or not.
Speaker 2: But like, no, I was gonna think about it. I
Speaker 2: wanted you to talk about how you grew up with
Speaker 2: your father, Like you grew up with a very famous father.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I also wasn't doing like red car We
Speaker 1: lived in Indiana and Hiltonhead there was. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: I was walking a bunch of red carpet.
Speaker 2: But it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: He was still just your dad. Yeah, but I think
Speaker 1: that And there's also more levels, like people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: she seemed annoyed, but in the same moment, what about
Speaker 1: Beyonce probably wanted to protect Blue Ivy in that moment
Speaker 1: because of everything in the press going on with jay Z. Well, like,
Speaker 1: there's so many levels to everything.
Speaker 2: Beyonce is a mom trying to and their daughter. There
Speaker 2: could you imagine living in the shadow of someone like Beyonce,
Speaker 2: jay Z, Lebron James. I mean, you can look at
Speaker 2: it in politics. It's just living in the shadow of
Speaker 2: these very famous icons as parents. That's got to be
Speaker 2: a mind trip on it own. Like these kids don't
Speaker 2: get enough in my opinion, understanding, how are you ever
Speaker 2: going to fill a great man and woman's shoes like that?
Speaker 2: That's an impossible task. So of course, yes, she's lucky
Speaker 2: to have the life that she lives, but guys, it
Speaker 2: does not come free. She's paying a price, whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, emotionally, physically, psychologically. You know, nothing in life
Speaker 2: is easy, even if your parents are jay Z and
Speaker 2: Beyonce got this job to break, and.
Speaker 1: I mean it also comes with I mean I didn't
Speaker 1: have this, but like imagine being followed around with security
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, having.
Speaker 2: This zero freedom, zero freedom and zero room to mess
Speaker 2: up zero And.
Speaker 1: When you do mess up, everybody is going to highlight it,
Speaker 1: especially now that there's social media. There's everything. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: we had a couple of polaroids when I was younger
Speaker 1: of like my bad behavior, Like what man, we didn't
Speaker 1: even have polaroids and.
Speaker 2: Go drop off the film and there is none.
Speaker 1: So ah, but I don't even I think she was
Speaker 1: just being a teenager and it didn't bother me.
Speaker 2: It didn't bother me at all.
Speaker 1: And also she wanted to go to the premiere. Like
Speaker 1: if she didn't want to go, I'm sure she could
Speaker 1: have said, I don't want to go.
Speaker 2: She looks great, isn't she in the movie?
Speaker 1: In the movie, but like she's going to go, I mean, right,
Speaker 1: But if she didn't want to be in a picture
Speaker 1: with her mom, really.
Speaker 2: I'm sure leave Blue Ivy alone.
Speaker 1: She also was happy to be on stage with her
Speaker 1: mom at Coachella.
Speaker 2: Also received criticism and came back stronger. Yeah and so
Speaker 2: you know, like, let these children live, let these children grow,
Speaker 2: let these and stop being So of course she's annoyed.
Speaker 2: She's a teenager and I.
Speaker 1: Think that also, And we'll get into it because now
Speaker 1: we react to Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter Apple. So Apple jumps
Speaker 1: into a debutant's photo, that's Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter. After there
Speaker 1: was mean girl backlash. This was on page six. Apple
Speaker 1: Martin was labeled a mean girl over the weekend for
Speaker 1: playfully jumping into a fellow debutant's photo. Can you pronounce
Speaker 1: this detante?
Speaker 2: I don't know, And then the next word, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but I know it said, listen, it's very fancy French
Speaker 2: and this is a very you know, to be a
Speaker 2: debutante is something, I mean, that's lovely and to be
Speaker 2: in France and to make your debut. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, the French debutant from the viral video told People
Speaker 1: Thursday that Apple twenty doesn't deserve an ounce of what
Speaker 1: she's getting online. Why not, Well, they're all saying she's
Speaker 1: a mean girl because she jumped into the photo.
Speaker 2: But Apple's been photographed since she was an embryo. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: like again, is she not allowed to have fun?
Speaker 1: Are you just?
Speaker 2: Are you just sour grapes? Because Apples jumped in your photo?
Speaker 1: But she's not even sour grape. She's saying she doesn't
Speaker 1: deserve she doesn't deserve it. Even the person whose photos
Speaker 1: she jumped into.
Speaker 2: Wait, is sticking up for her. Oh, I'm misreading what
Speaker 2: a ding dong?
Speaker 1: Sorry?
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for the French debutante who agrees with us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean in the video in question, I hate that.
Speaker 2: I look at me. I was always going to the negative.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like, anyways, fuck that French debutat.
Speaker 2: I just give that all back. I'm so very sorry.
Speaker 2: Thank you to the lovely French debutante who stuck up
Speaker 2: for Apple.
Speaker 1: Martin who we can't pronounce her name, but we're trying.
Speaker 1: Loppin de Montemart was posing at her black gown when
Speaker 1: she turned around and saw Apple walking into frame after
Speaker 1: and striking pose after post at the time, she brushed
Speaker 1: off the interruption and continued walking.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then. Apple also made headlines after the annual event for
Speaker 1: an interaction with her date, Count Leohinkle Vaughan Donner. Smart.
Speaker 2: She sounds so euro and so fab it sounds so rich.
Speaker 2: It really does. It sounds like something like we don't
Speaker 2: have here in America.
Speaker 1: It sounds richer than Teddy Joe.
Speaker 2: Mellencamp or yeah, I don't even I'm not even saying
Speaker 2: my name because there's a whole lot of shit that
Speaker 2: comes to mind. So we got it.
Speaker 1: She was filmed visibly rolling her eyes during a conversation
Speaker 1: with the New York University students. She was filmed being
Speaker 1: a human being. Oh okay, yeah, yeah, and I'm sorry
Speaker 1: Apple's been getting shit since they named her Apple.
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. And she's going this daughter and
Speaker 2: you know Chris's dad's yeah, like that's her dad. I mean, guys,
Speaker 2: leave Apple alone again? Can these people just live?
Speaker 1: No? They can't. Here we go, Yeah, here's another one.
Speaker 2: Okay, well you know what. Okay, So Kim's getting a
Speaker 2: blamed for you know, North and Chicago West being and
Speaker 2: their father Kanye West music video. Well, if you can't
Speaker 2: put your kids in your own music video, like, who cares,
Speaker 2: it's his music video. Let them do what they want.
Speaker 2: It's their money, their time, their children. If you don't
Speaker 2: like it, well then I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1: And while some are giving the exes like they're proud
Speaker 1: that they're giving their girls creative freedom. Other labeled the
Speaker 1: opportunity as peak nepotism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have. I'm here, let me lay out the
Speaker 2: facts for you. Nepotism has been around since like before
Speaker 2: or you know, the dawn of man, whether it's a
Speaker 2: bakery that you hand down to your sons or whether
Speaker 2: you were the daughters of Kim and Kanye. I mean nepotism.
Speaker 2: I mean we've had two fathersome presidents in the United
Speaker 2: States of America, And yes, that's true. I looked it up.
Speaker 2: And you know what else, there's nepotism in every field,
Speaker 2: and this happens to be their children. Imagine being their children.
Speaker 2: That's a very hard place to be. Yes, it's rich.
Speaker 2: Yes you have things that other kids don't have, but
Speaker 2: you also have this unrealistic pressure placed upon you that
Speaker 2: most children will never understand and most adults will never understand.
Speaker 1: And I can say from personal experience, personal experience and
Speaker 1: knowing other kids of famous people, famous people, it either
Speaker 1: comes with an extreme level of trying to be perfect,
Speaker 1: of perfectionism U or the complete opposite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 1: Where it's like you're just like fuck it. I want
Speaker 1: to be completely the opposite of anything that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people go so far as to change
Speaker 2: their name and never talk to their family again. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's just it runs a gamut. I mean, there's
Speaker 2: no fameous not.
Speaker 1: But I don't get hating on the kids for it,
Speaker 1: like you can't.
Speaker 2: They're just kids.
Speaker 1: They're just kids.
Speaker 2: And you know, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, do you think it's do.
Speaker 2: You think it's unfair or do you think when is
Speaker 2: the world fair? Right? When has that been? Uh? There
Speaker 2: is no fair in this life or this world that
Speaker 2: that doesn't even enter the equation.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, and you can even go, like even
Speaker 1: in the South, like whether it's nepotism or not. But
Speaker 1: I remember meeting you know, blah blah blah the fourth
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, you know he had money. Well, of course,
Speaker 1: why would we name them. It was a family, it
Speaker 1: was a family line. Nobody nobody said for the third
Speaker 1: of the fourth if you're broke. Yeah, it's like we're
Speaker 1: changing up, changing up the entire situation in here. People
Speaker 1: are asking me, do I feel that nepotism has helped
Speaker 1: me and are hurt me in my career? I mean,
Speaker 1: I would say that the lessons that my dad instilled
Speaker 1: in me and working very hard. I was going to
Speaker 1: say that has helped me, Like there's been having your dad.
Speaker 1: He's been very very hard on me. But he also
Speaker 1: you know today, he's the first person that called me
Speaker 1: this morning and he's like, you know, just checking in
Speaker 1: on you. How is it going? And so I think
Speaker 1: it can be challenging, Like but I think, yes, having
Speaker 1: somebody with a famous last name as a relative can
Speaker 1: get you in the door, but.
Speaker 2: You have to carry the ball from there.
Speaker 1: You have to carry the ball from there. And then
Speaker 1: also it can hurt you, like in the same way.
Speaker 1: Like people's favorite thing, other than that I'm boring, their
Speaker 1: second favorite thing to say about me is that I'm
Speaker 1: John Mellencamp's.
Speaker 2: Daughter, So therefore this is all because of him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't deserve to be a human being,
Speaker 1: and you know, yes, I'm riding on his coattails and
Speaker 1: so there is challenges and that can't feel good at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's weird because it goes back
Speaker 1: to that original conversation is if I if I say
Speaker 1: something like, well, I mean I moved out to California
Speaker 1: at seventeen and I've been supporting myself and I don't
Speaker 1: have a trust fund, and you know, I've had a
Speaker 1: million rejections. People are like, oh, what do you want
Speaker 1: a pity party?
Speaker 2: No, it's just actually a fact. Yeah, Like it's actually
Speaker 2: to show you that all of this advantage you thought
Speaker 2: I got really wasn't there. Yeah, And I mean, I
Speaker 2: mean some I'm sure something's but certainly, Yeah, you've worked
Speaker 2: very hard. Your dad has not and John don't come
Speaker 2: for me, but you know, I mean.
Speaker 1: He has not. No, and I mean there's he's laid
Speaker 1: it on you very real. Yeah, And I would imagine
Speaker 1: that a lot of other parents have done the same.
Speaker 2: I know some very successful men that did not hand
Speaker 2: their children their fortune or their business simply because anti quote,
Speaker 2: they don't have the talent. But I think also, I
Speaker 2: mean I've seen that, and I've seen it in business.
Speaker 2: I see it in like, you know, hardcore business, like
Speaker 2: they don't have the talent. I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1: But also, what what bens the like would you be
Speaker 1: able to like, would people be able to say that
Speaker 1: your son is nepotent.
Speaker 2: Like, well, my son's a cops and there's that in
Speaker 2: the streets. I don't know if that's anything to be.
Speaker 1: But you see what I'm saying, like, how does that
Speaker 1: not exist everywhere then exactly? And like how do you
Speaker 1: shelter your kids from being considered You can't?
Speaker 2: I mean, and it's just people are going to you
Speaker 2: have to.
Speaker 1: I think that.
Speaker 2: Look, at some point, when you're in the public, you're
Speaker 2: going to have to accept the fact that you have
Speaker 2: to pay a tax for this, this public life, and
Speaker 2: part of it is being misunderstood, uh rushed to judgment
Speaker 2: and things like oh, you only got here because of
Speaker 2: your father's last name or your mother is Kim Kardashian,
Speaker 2: therefore you have our no value and you know, which
Speaker 2: is not true, and that's not fair. But when is
Speaker 2: life fair?
Speaker 1: Life isn't fair, which brings us to fame our next
Speaker 1: thing that or infamy. Can you give me the definition
Speaker 1: of Yeah, it's being known for not good shit is.
Speaker 2: One of my lawyers looked at me and said, hey,
Speaker 2: you're not famous, you're infamous. So I was like, give
Speaker 2: an al capone infamous, you're infamous.
Speaker 1: I was like, great, that's that's yeah. What were your dreams.
Speaker 2: As Okay, So my dream was always to perform, meaning
Speaker 2: that from the time I was about three or four,
Speaker 2: I would create shows, even though they were nothing. I
Speaker 2: would get into a closet, ask my mother to introduce me,
Speaker 2: and I would literally jump up on like the coffee table,
Speaker 2: like in front of us, and sing and dance for
Speaker 2: my mother, my grandmother, anybody that was listening and watching.
Speaker 2: And from that, my mom put me in dance and
Speaker 2: children's theater and it never stopped. I went to a
Speaker 2: great performing arts high school in Atlanta, which is no
Speaker 2: longer there. At the time it was called Northside School
Speaker 2: of Performing Arts. And then I wanted to continue my
Speaker 2: life of performing and moved to New York City and
Speaker 2: settled in Los Angeles about eight years later. Seven years later.
Speaker 2: So for me, performance has all and I managed to
Speaker 2: take long breaks in between. I was married twice and
Speaker 2: when I and became a mom, so I wasn't performing then,
Speaker 2: but that was always gnawing at my heart, like to perform,
Speaker 2: to create, and when I was living Tom's life, and
Speaker 2: I really was living Tom's life up for about seven
Speaker 2: years and then I said, you know what, Tom, I
Speaker 2: need to create. I need to do things like it
Speaker 2: was calling It's always been inside. So fame for me
Speaker 2: was not the I'm going to be rich and famous. Yes,
Speaker 2: that is something that sort of affirms your I don't know,
Speaker 2: your pro jax or whatever it is that you do. Hey,
Speaker 2: people like it, you know, applause. But I didn't do
Speaker 2: it for the applause. I did it because I fucking
Speaker 2: loved it, and I love the feeling of being out.
Speaker 1: There on stage. Yea.
Speaker 2: And even now it's like it's it's great and I'm
Speaker 2: grateful for everything that's happened to me. But there's also
Speaker 2: days where it's like, jeez.
Speaker 1: This is a lot.
Speaker 2: This is a lot. Well, I mean, and I don't
Speaker 2: even have I have a sliver, a sliver of the
Speaker 2: attention of these people that we were talking about early,
Speaker 2: A sliver, you know.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean two years you may have had.
Speaker 2: For two years, I was a roll two years you may,
Speaker 2: but for two years ago I was. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: and not for all the right reasons. So it would
Speaker 2: be different if it was like, oh, Erica, you were
Speaker 2: celebrated because it was so great.
Speaker 1: We were in the Lion King.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in the Lion King and you you really
Speaker 2: killed it, are you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know that's not what I was sure, It's just
Speaker 2: the Yeah, let me know, it was none of that.
Speaker 2: It was let's make let's let's be on a reality
Speaker 2: TV show. Let's have competitors, competing networks make docs about you.
Speaker 2: Let's have every fucking tabloid write about you, put you
Speaker 2: on everything. And like I said.
Speaker 1: They asked me to be in that doc. By the way, I.
Speaker 2: Was thank you. I really appreciate that. Thank you. You know,
Speaker 2: there was a couple of people that have that reached
Speaker 2: out to me and were like, hey, this came across
Speaker 2: my desk just so you know, no way, Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I appreciate everybody that did that because that's it's like,
Speaker 2: that's gross.
Speaker 1: I mean, granted, I know that on to teasing the
Speaker 1: pot I recaptured, but like, there's a there's a there's
Speaker 1: a good there's a limit. But what do you say
Speaker 1: to people because this was this is the perception that
Speaker 1: you get and I'm I'm talking to not as somebody
Speaker 1: that's one of my good friends, but it's the perception
Speaker 1: of sure, watching on the show, you know, you were married,
Speaker 1: you got a divorce, you you went to go trace
Speaker 1: chase your dream, leave the other stuff behind, and then
Speaker 1: you met an older man who funded the entire who
Speaker 1: funded the entire vanity project?
Speaker 2: Yes, not true. I've been getting paid in the entertainment
Speaker 2: business since i was a little kid, even though it
Speaker 2: was a local you know, in Atlanta, Georgia, where I'm
Speaker 2: born and raised. Yeah, I was working since I was
Speaker 2: little and meaning I wanted to. I wanted to do
Speaker 2: these things, whether it was commercials, whether it was theater
Speaker 2: and being on Housewives did nothing more than take my project,
Speaker 2: which was already on its feet and expose it. Took
Speaker 2: it out of the clubs and took it to a
Speaker 2: more mainstream environment.
Speaker 1: How long were you performing in the clubs and stuff
Speaker 1: before you booked Housewif.
Speaker 2: I started Erica Jane, I want to say, I think
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven was my first record, and then
Speaker 2: I don't know what year I came on, so whatever,
Speaker 2: I don't Yeah.
Speaker 1: But do you think that what was like the when
Speaker 1: you first started with Tom. Was there a time where
Speaker 1: he was like, I don't want you performing or did
Speaker 1: you just mold your life into his?
Speaker 2: I molded my life because what my life was was
Speaker 2: his life was great. Yeah, So I molded my life
Speaker 2: into his life and I and I got exposure to
Speaker 2: an entirely different life, and so that was wonderful until
Speaker 2: you know again here says this need. Yeah, until this
Speaker 2: need to like, hey, I want to create again. I
Speaker 2: feel this again, and I think that that's what happens.
Speaker 2: We step away, we come back, We step away, we
Speaker 2: come back. Was there a defining moment? Yes, there was.
Speaker 2: I received an invitation to a club show of a
Speaker 2: woman that I knew through Tom's social circle. But I
Speaker 2: flipped it over and I saw that it was choreographed
Speaker 2: by one of my dear friends from performing arts high
Speaker 2: school that had worked with like heavily with Michael Jackson
Speaker 2: and everyone else, and I mean like a real fucking
Speaker 2: like a real dancer. And I called him and I said,
Speaker 2: what are you doing on this project? And he literally said,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, you know. He said, well what are you
Speaker 2: doing and I said, well, in terms of like performing
Speaker 2: and I said, well nothing, really, I haven't. It's well,
Speaker 2: if it's possible for her, meaning the invitation, the woman
Speaker 2: on the invitation, is possible for you. So shout out
Speaker 2: to Travis Payne, thank you. And he planted the seed
Speaker 2: and helped me grow Erica Jane and then Mikey and
Speaker 2: I took it and grew it more. So we just
Speaker 2: kept going. And that's the truth. And look my hometown.
Speaker 2: You know, I know, I'm fifty three, but like the
Speaker 2: kids that came up, we came up together and performing
Speaker 2: our school, we turned out some amazing talent, some really
Speaker 2: cool people. I mean you basically when you came out
Speaker 2: of our dance program, you went on tour with Michael
Speaker 2: or Janet, Paula Abdul or you went onto Broadway like
Speaker 2: there was no and let's not forget you did go
Speaker 2: onto Broadway. I did, but much later in my life.
Speaker 2: But like I'm talking straight out of twelfth grade. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they didn't go. They were like right out of there
Speaker 2: on world tours. And that was when you were making money,
Speaker 2: like they were buying houses and shit.
Speaker 1: Do you remember, like what your biggest rejection was.
Speaker 2: I've had so many. I remember people telling me, you know,
Speaker 2: you're not talented, you can't sing, you can't dance. But
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't
Speaker 2: think you seem to understand. It's all about also how
Speaker 2: you see yourself as an artist. There are there are
Speaker 2: people that are vocalists, there are people that are dancers.
Speaker 2: There are people that entertain like it's all of that.
Speaker 2: I don't think you are what you think you are
Speaker 2: probably is the biggest rejection.
Speaker 1: What it's your biggest insecurity.
Speaker 2: I think my biggest insecurity sometimes is not feeling prepared.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to explain that any other way
Speaker 2: than not feeling prepared enough. And it's hard to explain,
Speaker 2: but like, have I gone over this enough? Have I?
Speaker 1: And you can see it in your demeanor when you
Speaker 1: don't feel.
Speaker 2: Like you're prepared, yes, And when you don't know, I
Speaker 2: feel like an edgy to And when I don't know,
Speaker 2: I feel like I don't know a piece of music
Speaker 2: well enough, or I haven't worked out the kinks in something,
Speaker 2: or I don't know the choreography well enough, I feel rushed.
Speaker 1: You can see it.
Speaker 2: And because you don't get into that flow state, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't get into that relaxed state that people like
Speaker 2: when you can throw away all of the all of
Speaker 2: the stuff and just really live in the moment. And
Speaker 2: that's what I crave the most is living in that
Speaker 2: moment on stage is nothing like it?
Speaker 1: Is it an escape? You think?
Speaker 2: I say that all the time.
Speaker 1: And what was there? And I know I'm grilling Erica
Speaker 1: right now, but I'll switch over it will But like,
Speaker 1: was your would you consider your mom the stage mom?
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that it well, not only my mother,
Speaker 2: but my grandmother. In the best sense possible, I think
Speaker 2: that I was living their unrealized dreams through two generations.
Speaker 2: And there was a moment when I was like, can
Speaker 2: I just because it was constant, like it was company
Speaker 2: rehearsal on the weekend ends and went to performing arts
Speaker 2: high school, you know, can I step back? I'm not really,
Speaker 2: but Erica, if you step back, you lose time. And
Speaker 2: so they instilled a whole lot of sense of urgency
Speaker 2: into me.
Speaker 1: And would you say that, like your mom is still
Speaker 1: involved in your career?
Speaker 2: Yeah? My mom is like that was terrible, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: can you not come? You know, I don't like that.
Speaker 2: I really thought I was like pause pause, personally, are
Speaker 2: you fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was gonna I was about I thought you
Speaker 1: were gonna say fuck now.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, if anyone can strike at my
Speaker 2: the deepest, most open wound of myself, it's my mother.
Speaker 2: And you can see it on the show. You can
Speaker 2: see how I just start to turn on her because
Speaker 2: that mouth of hers is ruthless because it cuts me
Speaker 2: in a way that nobody can.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Is not nice at all, very ugly, very ugly. And
Speaker 2: I've shown that and I've tried really hard to work
Speaker 2: on it. I really have. I discussed it in therapy,
Speaker 2: I've talked about it with my mother. It's just something
Speaker 2: I have to get over. Yeah, you know, something that
Speaker 2: I have to get over. I also say that follow
Speaker 2: your dreams.
Speaker 1: How did you pick the name Erica Jane?
Speaker 2: Shit, I couldn't come up with anything else. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's really not that deep. I just wanted to be Erica,
Speaker 2: you know, because I thought that disconnecting from I didn't
Speaker 2: want to be Erica da. You know, you don't want
Speaker 2: to be a real name, Like that's not exciting. The thing,
Speaker 2: the whole thing about being an artist or having an
Speaker 2: artistic project is escapism. I've always said Erica Jane was
Speaker 2: an escape artist. It was an escape from all life
Speaker 2: that I was living at that time. Fantasy, love, escape, glitz,
Speaker 2: glamor of fine illw my six words to describe Erica Jane.
Speaker 2: But it was the only thing that we came up
Speaker 2: with at the time. I don't have some magical sort
Speaker 2: of Is it inspired by Jane Mansfield? Sure?
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's funny that you say that. As
Speaker 1: you said that, you know you wanted that name getting
Speaker 1: into nepotism in my dad he wanted to get away
Speaker 1: from his stage name.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they you know, back when he first started coming up,
Speaker 1: they gave him Johnny Couger, That's right, and then he
Speaker 1: spent years and years and years of his life trying
Speaker 1: to be John Mellencamp, fighting it. So then it went
Speaker 1: from Johnny Couger to John Couger to John Cougar Mellencamp.
Speaker 2: You know, like how old was your father when he
Speaker 2: was signed? Like his first his.
Speaker 1: First big hit was in nineteen eighty one, the year
Speaker 1: I was born. So, I mean those could see it.
Speaker 3: Jack and Diane, I think it was Jack and Diane
Speaker 3: and it was that album I remember was thirty six
Speaker 3: and I can see the album cover in my head
Speaker 3: and I can remember that that song was.
Speaker 2: I mean you talk about heavy rotation like that song
Speaker 2: was a funny.
Speaker 1: It's a smash. Yeah. And that's my mom in the video.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm going on tonight? Is it really?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That's OK.
Speaker 1: That's my mom sucking on chili dogs outside.
Speaker 2: The tastey freeze and to think. But I and when
Speaker 2: I met you, I was like, wow, I've listened to
Speaker 2: her dad like for forever.
Speaker 1: But it is funny, I mean, the way people you know,
Speaker 1: there's an escapism version, and then there's also the part
Speaker 1: of like when you when you want, when you want
Speaker 1: to achieve your goals, you may sign on and do
Speaker 1: anything right even if it's not something you want to. Well.
Speaker 2: I think that that's also how that business was and
Speaker 2: is still is that they change and mold you to
Speaker 2: what is palatable and what sells. I mean, and now
Speaker 2: now it's the complete opposite. If you're not your authentic self,
Speaker 2: you're not selling shit.
Speaker 1: So I mean they did the same thing with like
Speaker 1: you know, old Hollywood movies.
Speaker 2: Nobody was her real name, Marilyn Monroe was not her name.
Speaker 2: Norma Jean Martinsen was you know, Marilyn Monroe, Rita Cansino
Speaker 2: was Rita Hayworth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they would be signed onto one particular you
Speaker 1: know studio, and I had to do all the movies
Speaker 1: within that, and then they get loaned out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they would get loaned out. So I mean
Speaker 2: it's kind of like being on Brava. I'm just chidding,
Speaker 2: my god, nobody wants to borrow.
Speaker 1: You right now.
Speaker 2: Don't you ever say that again in my presence. I'm
Speaker 2: telling you better stop talking negatively.
Speaker 1: I have if I didn't laugh at myself.
Speaker 2: No, but there's there's a limit. Okay, fine, okay, you
Speaker 2: can have that's it. That's your one stop deprecating. Do
Speaker 2: not say that again.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that, at least, you know when I'm
Speaker 1: being self deprecating now versus when we first met and
Speaker 1: you were just.
Speaker 2: Like, gosh, well that's also Look, how do you know
Speaker 2: what I How do you feel right now now that
Speaker 2: you're so you know, all of this really glaring attention
Speaker 2: is turned onto you. How do you feel I mean,
Speaker 2: and I mean this genuinely, like I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: bullshit you, Like, how do you feel about what were
Speaker 2: your hopes and dreams as a performer and now you've
Speaker 2: never been bigger? Being known for something that's painful? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that sucks.
Speaker 1: It sucks. I would say that like when I first
Speaker 1: came out to California, you know, I had grown up
Speaker 1: riding horses, and I got all of my I don't
Speaker 1: know my confidence by winning getting those blue ribbons. Well,
Speaker 1: you were a professional as a teenager. People don't realize this, Ted,
Speaker 1: he was a professionalist team. Yeah, like I was, you
Speaker 1: know one at Madison Square Garden. It was it was
Speaker 1: my entire life. And then I had gotten a full
Speaker 1: ride to college. But in contingent with riding on the team.
Speaker 1: When I said it was by the way, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say, okay, but to ride on the team.
Speaker 1: But then when I said that, I wouldn't I didn't
Speaker 1: want to ride on the team because I was an
Speaker 1: idiot seventeen year old and said I don't want to
Speaker 1: ride on the college team because collegiate riding as a step.
Speaker 1: But it just was a stupid It's a fucking man,
Speaker 1: It's okay. But then they were like, well then we
Speaker 1: don't want you. You have shitty grades.
Speaker 2: The mean we got you over here is because you
Speaker 2: were good.
Speaker 1: And that's when I decided to move to California and
Speaker 1: I my parents were like, well, yeah, I mean you can.
Speaker 1: And they were divorced at this time, a million years
Speaker 1: and you know we did.
Speaker 2: They say to you, how dare you turn down a
Speaker 2: full ride? I can't imagine your dad being like, hey,
Speaker 2: what's wrong with you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I mean and then he was like, well that's fine.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna if you don't want to ride in college,
Speaker 1: well I you will still take you. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going. I'm going to California. I want to
Speaker 1: be an actress.
Speaker 2: Is that what you wanted to be?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I didn't, but I didn't really I
Speaker 1: just wanted to be seen, Okay, I get it. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like I was in acting school for all these years.
Speaker 1: I mean, I probably you know, I mess. I met
Speaker 1: my I started at CA in the mailroom. I met
Speaker 1: my first roommate and my first acting class i'd ever taken.
Speaker 2: Did your dad get you the job at CIA? In
Speaker 2: the mail room?
Speaker 1: He got me that interview, baby, He got me that
Speaker 1: interview with Arlene Newman. May she rest in peace.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not like you were doing anything interesting other
Speaker 2: than delivering the mail, which is, as everybody knows, the
Speaker 2: key starting position.
Speaker 1: It is the key. I was the only person in
Speaker 1: the mail room that hadn't graduated from an Ivy League college.
Speaker 1: So it was a touch of nepotism that got good
Speaker 1: for you. But then I got myself on a partner's desk.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. So after a year of being in the
Speaker 1: mayroom all of those things, I worked my way up
Speaker 1: and kind of became that quirky, self deprecating taty joe
Speaker 1: that everybody kind of wanted. Sure, they were like on
Speaker 1: their desk, Yeah, we want you, we want you to
Speaker 1: work for me. And it taught me a lot. And
Speaker 1: it also taught me that I came from being a
Speaker 1: big fish in a small pond to the smallest fish
Speaker 1: and the biggest ocean, and the ocean.
Speaker 2: And the fucking the ocean intimating out here, yeah, well anywhere,
Speaker 2: but you know, it can get intimidating.
Speaker 1: And I, you know, had We've talked about this, but
Speaker 1: I had grown up with eating issues and body dysmorphia
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff that comes with riding
Speaker 1: horses and skin tight beige pants and well did you
Speaker 1: have to weigh in for those things? You don't have
Speaker 1: to weigh in and hunter jumper, But it's like you're
Speaker 1: almost rewarded for.
Speaker 2: Being tiny and small and looking like you don't exist
Speaker 2: on the horse, and especially.
Speaker 1: When you're somebody that's my height and I don't have
Speaker 1: long legs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to be teeny tiny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, so it was kind of that. And then
Speaker 1: I came out to California and I'd gone to the
Speaker 1: same school from third grade till twelfth grade, so like,
Speaker 1: and I rode with the same people, so I never
Speaker 1: had to kind of make new friends. Oh shit, And
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm out here to tell me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, hell, you know, and I'm I'm living
Speaker 1: in the studio apartment, barely making do.
Speaker 2: Like, let's just say that your dad gave you no money.
Speaker 2: You're not feeling this part of the story. Your father said, fuck.
Speaker 1: You, he gave they My parents gave me my Jetta.
Speaker 1: We packed that jetts, got rid of the Grimlin, we
Speaker 1: got rid of the Gremlin, I got the Jetta, We
Speaker 1: shifted out, and then that was that was the end
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: That was good luck.
Speaker 1: You figured out.
Speaker 2: You figured it out, which is kind of it's great,
Speaker 2: but it's also like, could you imagine turning slate loose
Speaker 2: right in a few years and being like, go work
Speaker 2: it out? No, but not, I mean think about that,
Speaker 2: they basically say, and that you go.
Speaker 1: But I mean to be perfectly honest and that I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to like shit on my mom. But I
Speaker 1: had been kind of figuring it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, your whole life, My.
Speaker 1: Whole life, you know, so that part was but adding
Speaker 1: in that like loneliness of being in a big place.
Speaker 1: And then that's when I kind of, I guess, in
Speaker 1: lack of a better way of saying, it started eating
Speaker 1: my feelings. And I remember that first. You know, at
Speaker 1: this point, I come out to LA, I get you know,
Speaker 1: things are going all right. I'm making a couple of friends,
Speaker 1: I'm doing.
Speaker 2: At the job.
Speaker 1: I got the job, I got a manager. I got
Speaker 1: those head shots with like the belly button piercing that
Speaker 1: I had just gotten, you know, like my pencil thin eyebrows.
Speaker 1: And then that's when.
Speaker 2: Did you go to class? Did you study?
Speaker 1: I did I see study?
Speaker 2: Yes? Uh?
Speaker 1: Not Stey what what? Yes?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: What helped me?
Speaker 2: I was going to say Stella Adler because it sounded
Speaker 2: like you were going to say that, but that doesn't
Speaker 2: sound right.
Speaker 1: It's not. It was Stella Adler later, but before that
Speaker 1: it was I don't know because I didn't go I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm going to hear but either or I mean,
Speaker 1: it was like a chorus line pretend to be a tree.
Speaker 2: You know how I love that? How what the fuck
Speaker 2: is the tree? Like, I've never even thought about that.
Speaker 1: Explain how you'd feel if you were the Hollywood sign.
Speaker 2: Old and dilapidated with.
Speaker 1: The l missing, because somebody, that's what I was saying,
Speaker 1: anybody I jumped off. But yeah, and then there was
Speaker 1: a moment where I was going on auditions and I
Speaker 1: was also I was a hostess at Mister Chow and
Speaker 1: your O Chow, and things were just kind of spiraling.
Speaker 1: I booked the job. I talked about this on the show,
Speaker 1: and then after pilot season, we kind of started like
Speaker 1: we had that second round. We're like, we're all about
Speaker 1: to start filming the pilot and I had gained probably
Speaker 1: fifty pounds.
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1: Yes, they called their manager and said she either needs
Speaker 1: to lose weight or we're going to fire her. We're
Speaker 1: going to fire And I never recovered from that. I
Speaker 1: never recovered from it. And I also never went on
Speaker 1: another audition again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it took it out of you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I was like that, and then I was
Speaker 1: so bitter of course about.
Speaker 2: It and demoralized. I mean, Jesus Christ, could you imagine
Speaker 2: lose fifty pounds that we're going to.
Speaker 1: Fucking fire you. Yeah, like we're done.
Speaker 2: The girl that we hired is not the girl that's
Speaker 2: showing up here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then it just became, you know, fifteen years of
Speaker 1: living in California and you know, just putzing around trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what I was going to do. You know,
Speaker 1: like I worked in agencies, I went and the fact that.
Speaker 2: You never went on an audition again is so crushing.
Speaker 2: That just lets me know how deeply that wounded you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I remember going home for that
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving like that that year after, and I just had
Speaker 1: kept gaining more and more weight, and I just remember,
Speaker 1: this is not judgment of my family, but I remember
Speaker 1: walking in in my family's faces because there was an
Speaker 1: Instagram then, so.
Speaker 2: They were like shocked when you walked through the door.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were shocked.
Speaker 2: And it was not in a good way.
Speaker 1: Not not in a good way. And so that's kind
Speaker 1: of always carried with me. But then, you know, you
Speaker 1: take that pain and to transmute it, and you transmute
Speaker 1: it and I kind of started finding my way and
Speaker 1: then you know, I lost it again. And that's and
Speaker 1: that's really the long, the long and short of it
Speaker 1: is my life has been this and and so is.
Speaker 2: Yours, of course, And I think that that's, you know,
Speaker 2: I hate to be so cliche, but that's also like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna and you guys can criticize us later. That's
Speaker 2: the hero's journey, I mean, because you have it, you
Speaker 2: lose it, you regain it. You you know, you're mad,
Speaker 2: you're sad, you're bitter, but you overcome and then things change.
Speaker 2: The most important thing I think for me, and I
Speaker 2: think for you, is to like I told you, you can
Speaker 2: do anything but quit, and you will again take this
Speaker 2: challenge and overcome and make it something else. And I
Speaker 2: think the way that you've you were on housewives and
Speaker 2: then you took that and turned yourself into a really
Speaker 2: great podcaster and you've had a lot of success is
Speaker 2: not only it's very admirable, but so many people would
Speaker 2: have walked off in defeat and you didn't do that.
Speaker 2: And you have to you have to acknowledge that in
Speaker 2: yourself that you've created something else out of that, and
Speaker 2: you'll create something else out of this experience.
Speaker 1: And I have to also like tell you, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it a much right now. I have
Speaker 1: to tell you thank you because it it didn't mean
Speaker 1: a lot to me that you said yes to me,
Speaker 1: of course, and it did mean a lot to me
Speaker 1: because there are so many people that want to jump
Speaker 1: on the bed wagon, yeah, of hating or making you
Speaker 1: feel like you're less than or not enough. And I
Speaker 1: think that the fact that you chose our connection over
Speaker 1: what other people thought is why this became so successful.
Speaker 1: And I really really appreciated it, and like you did
Speaker 1: it at a time that like you really didn't have to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I am your friend, Yeah, And I also
Speaker 2: have been where you are, and I also know that
Speaker 2: this too shall pass, And I believe in you, and
Speaker 2: I respect you, and I know that you will overcome
Speaker 2: because you are a hard fucking worker and you've never
Speaker 2: allowed anything since I've known you to take you to
Speaker 2: a place where you didn't fight back and fight back
Speaker 2: on your own behalf. And so I'm very proud of
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: And I mean, we may fight back the wrong way.
Speaker 2: But nobody's perfect, and you are a human being, and
Speaker 2: you're allowed to have these sort of experiences. The difference
Speaker 2: between us and others is that ours is in the
Speaker 2: public and people get to enjoy cheer us on or
Speaker 2: criticize us. It's all good at the end of the day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: now I have.
Speaker 1: A tear, I know. Okay, So our next question that
Speaker 1: people are asking.
Speaker 2: I think, like, why did you both want to become
Speaker 2: a housewife? Did you ever watch reality TV before? I
Speaker 2: did not?
Speaker 1: You know, I did not watch this show before I
Speaker 1: got I didn't either, But people never believe me when
Speaker 1: I say that.
Speaker 2: They didn't for me either. I said I knew who
Speaker 2: the women were because at that time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, people always going to say, we saw that
Speaker 1: picture of you and Kyle when you're in like the.
Speaker 2: Air, Yeah we met its two completely different noses and
Speaker 2: knows ago Yeah, no to both of us, by the way.
Speaker 2: And she doesn't care that I say this, but a
Speaker 2: nos ago and yeah, I had met her at some
Speaker 2: party and she was kind of she was the thing
Speaker 2: about Kyle people don't understand. And I said this a
Speaker 2: long time ago. Kyle had grew up in this business.
Speaker 2: But she doesn't take it that seriously. Do you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? Like, Oh, I you know, she's always
Speaker 2: been friendly to strangers and to everyone else. And she
Speaker 2: and so she was I was a stranger. She took
Speaker 2: a picture with me. There you go. That's all it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah. People try to make it like, oh, she's been
Speaker 1: dying to get on the show for years because this
Speaker 1: one photo.
Speaker 2: No, No, it's kind of bizarre. I would have never
Speaker 2: seen myself on a show like this.
Speaker 1: So how did you actually?
Speaker 2: I told you I, Tom and I were friends with
Speaker 2: David Foster and Yolanda. We had gone out to their
Speaker 2: house one day and she came down not feeling great
Speaker 2: in her robe. She was very sick, and we were
Speaker 2: all talking, the four of us, and she literally said,
Speaker 2: have you thought about being a housewife? And I said no,
Speaker 2: And she said, I'm texting my boss. We've already kind
Speaker 2: of started, but we need someone, and that was Alex Baskin. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and here I am. I got the job, and here
Speaker 2: I am. It was really something that was so different
Speaker 2: than anything I could have ever seen. I didn't know
Speaker 2: what I was doing or what it was because it
Speaker 2: wasn't like a five six, seven eight, yeah go over here.
Speaker 2: Seeing this note, I was like, what are we doing? So, yeah,
Speaker 2: what about you?
Speaker 1: For me, it was slightly different. So I had said
Speaker 1: I never had gone on Edition again after that incident,
Speaker 1: but then cut to you know, we're ten or fifteen
Speaker 1: years later. I've had the I've had my first two kids.
Speaker 1: I was in and I've been open about this. I
Speaker 1: was in like a rough part of my life again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know, I'd had multiple miscarriages, I had IVF.
Speaker 1: I was struggling because it was what I forgot about
Speaker 1: how that it was the first time that I wasn't
Speaker 1: making my own money.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, which is a big deal for you and
Speaker 2: you know who else is a big deal for you?
Speaker 2: And Kyle really bonded over that. Yeah, like both of
Speaker 2: you like making my own money because I was always like, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 2: let me give it to whomever. The two of you
Speaker 2: are very in sync about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I always had my own separate bank
Speaker 1: account and for the first time ever, I didn't have
Speaker 1: anything in there, that anything, and it was just making
Speaker 1: me honestly unhinged. And that's when I started All In,
Speaker 1: not as a company, just I started. It was La
Speaker 1: Workout Junkie. You guys actually made me change the name whatever,
Speaker 1: but La Workout Junkie, which was like, I want to
Speaker 1: change my life today. And they followed along on my
Speaker 1: journey on changing my life and then it turned into
Speaker 1: a business and all of that. So I'd grown a
Speaker 1: very small Instagram falling. We're talking like ten thousand people
Speaker 1: right throughout my journey and my business. And I had
Speaker 1: been reached out to you know, you get those emails
Speaker 1: from like casting sure, and I had been reached out
Speaker 1: to be on a different show like Bunham and Murray,
Speaker 1: like the Ogs, the Ogs of reality TV. And I
Speaker 1: filmed the pilot and it was I mean, a lot
Speaker 1: of the girls from that show have come on and
Speaker 1: they and they did really well, and then the show
Speaker 1: continued on. But after I filmed the pilot, I was like,
Speaker 1: I absolutely cannot do that show.
Speaker 2: Like I was like this, was it combative or just
Speaker 2: conflict or just sit right with you?
Speaker 1: So staged? And like I just I felt like it
Speaker 1: didn't feel right. And so I emailed my old friend
Speaker 1: from C A A And said, Hey, did I sign
Speaker 1: a contract that I can't get out?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: And turned out and she said you can know. She
Speaker 1: said you can get out of it, and she goes,
Speaker 1: but while we're on the topic, would you do Real Housewives?
Speaker 1: And I said, I've never watched it because I watched
Speaker 1: The Bachelor of Real Rules like, but I wasn't at
Speaker 1: that point. I was pretty I was younger, you know
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: I always thought you were too young to be on
Speaker 2: the show because you were on your way up. You
Speaker 2: need bitches that are on their way down. Now you've
Speaker 2: got all the dirt under your nails, you'll ever need
Speaker 2: to be on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's how it happened. And then the
Speaker 1: entire like process started where you have your interviews, your
Speaker 1: test seetings or test shoots, all of that. But I
Speaker 1: kind of knew the second I had my test shoot
Speaker 1: with like Chris Colin and everybody. I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to get the drop. Like, I kind of knew it.
Speaker 1: But I mean I didn't keep it for that long.
Speaker 2: Well, you kept it long enough. I think that you
Speaker 2: kept it long enough to learn a lot of things
Speaker 2: and then to you know, recreate yourself, which is.
Speaker 1: I mean, it did make me realize that I wasn't
Speaker 1: my full self. Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's the one thing about turning a camera onto yourself
Speaker 2: that I think sometimes people who aren't in our business
Speaker 2: don't have the luxury of doing, which is to see yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah and go oh god, yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really how I speak to others, or that's
Speaker 2: how I allow others to speak to me, or I
Speaker 2: look crazy.
Speaker 1: No, I was like a shell of a human being.
Speaker 1: Yeah you can, and I can assure you. I'm going
Speaker 1: through a way fucking harder time now than I was then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you got chops now.
Speaker 1: But like it took a little time and it was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this, this is naturally who I am. I
Speaker 1: just I deflated in that moment.
Speaker 2: But that's a that's a very common thing to do.
Speaker 2: It's like when people say, oh, you're so much different,
Speaker 2: like when we have this conversation. Of course I'm different.
Speaker 2: I'm having a conversation with a friend. I'm not in
Speaker 2: a shark tank right now. Yeah, I'm just open and
Speaker 2: able to talk to you about certain things.
Speaker 1: What would you say the biggest pro and con are of.
Speaker 2: Being on the show, of being in reality television. I
Speaker 2: think the biggest pro is I've it's you know, kicked
Speaker 2: up in a whole bunch of doors. For me, the
Speaker 2: biggest con has been, you know, what I went through
Speaker 2: publicly with Tom and subsequently everything after that, and having
Speaker 2: to live through that and pick yourself up and rebuild,
Speaker 2: which has been the hardest. What about you?
Speaker 1: I would say the biggest pro is has one been
Speaker 1: that I've been able to kind of create all of
Speaker 1: this afterwards. Yeah, and that I've had the support of
Speaker 1: all of you other ladies that have come in and
Speaker 1: been like, yeah, let's let's go, let's do this, let's
Speaker 1: make magic together. So that's been a pro along with
Speaker 1: you know, parts of you know, financial things, but also friendships. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I have developed some real true friends, but friends
Speaker 1: that when you are down, they're still there. There's still there,
Speaker 1: like down down. So that's the pros. And I've been
Speaker 1: able to give my you know, my family a different
Speaker 1: life than I probably could have if it never happened,
Speaker 1: And the cons are I also gave my family a
Speaker 1: different life than.
Speaker 2: They could well set you know, you could have lived privately.
Speaker 2: Someone said this to me, if you weren't on a
Speaker 2: reality TV show, what would it have been like the
Speaker 2: fallout with Tom? And I said, well, look, it would
Speaker 2: have been a very bad legal story. Yeah, nobde cares.
Speaker 2: But because you're on TV, then it becomes something else,
Speaker 2: bigger and its own monster. And I'm sure you feel
Speaker 2: the same way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then you get into this feeling of your like,
Speaker 1: do I do I fight back super hard or do
Speaker 1: I just sit chilly? Or do I do that?
Speaker 2: Like there are no right or wrong.
Speaker 1: They're no right or wrong. There's no right a wrong,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'll keep making mistakes, guys, so just
Speaker 1: stay tune.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what, again, there's no handbook for
Speaker 2: everybody can assume that they know what you're going through.
Speaker 2: And yes, there's been a lot of divorces and whatever
Speaker 2: separations or whatever I went through just but to do
Speaker 2: it in a public forum is a whole other animal.
Speaker 2: And there are very few people that you can call
Speaker 2: and say I feel like I'm gonna blow my head
Speaker 2: off and they go, yes, that's normal. Hold on a second,
Speaker 2: let me talk to you, and you're gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: And I think something that I have learned through this
Speaker 1: that also has been pretty great with my friends, whether
Speaker 1: they're show friends I met through the show or friends
Speaker 1: that my you know, mommy and me or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: is the ability to have the strength to say, actually
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk right now, why and that's
Speaker 1: really fucking sad? Or I'm really I'm having a day,
Speaker 1: or hey can we go, let's go to line for
Speaker 1: let's do that. Like we are allowed to have highs
Speaker 1: and lows, And I think for so long I didn't
Speaker 1: believe I was allowed to have those.
Speaker 2: Why you just thought you had to be on all
Speaker 2: the time, all the time.
Speaker 1: Jesus, I thought.
Speaker 2: That too, until I had nothing but lows and I
Speaker 2: gave up. It crushed me so hard, Like the lows
Speaker 2: were so hard that I was like, I can't, I
Speaker 2: I just can't. Like it's it's really from A to B,
Speaker 2: it's really from nine am to eleven am. I would
Speaker 2: check in with my therapist like every like her goal
Speaker 2: for me was every two to three hours, Like, if
Speaker 2: you can just make it till noon, consider that a goal.
Speaker 2: Like really she was like, yeah, that's how bad the
Speaker 2: shit is. And I feel badly for anybody that's listening
Speaker 2: that doesn't have that kind of support, because it is
Speaker 2: important as human beings and it's just women that you know,
Speaker 2: we go through these things and we really should be there.
Speaker 2: I know it's hard and it sounds cliche, but for
Speaker 2: one another more so than we really are, and stop
Speaker 2: judging everybody. You're fucked up.
Speaker 1: To listen and it's fine. I think it's okay. To like,
Speaker 1: if you want to make small talk and gossip about
Speaker 1: them and fucking do it.
Speaker 2: I think that's wonderful and that's how we put ourselves
Speaker 2: out here. But also too, just remember when you're pointing
Speaker 2: in that mirror, they're two at you, right, that's two
Speaker 2: fingers pointing right.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys for tuning in to another episode
Speaker 1: of Diamonds in the Rough. What should we get into
Speaker 1: next week?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I think that we have we
Speaker 2: need to get our claws into something good. How about
Speaker 2: in the comments? Oh, give us some suggestions if you
Speaker 2: if you see something you know that you want to
Speaker 2: maybe talk about, give us a little suggestion, Give.
Speaker 1: Us a suggestion, and we could even comment on the comments.
Speaker 2: I like that too.
Speaker 1: I always should clap back to our comments.
Speaker 2: Or just laugh our asses off because sometimes they're just
Speaker 2: so good. But that means you'd have to turn off
Speaker 2: key where it's.
Speaker 1: Eh the clown emoji? The clown You can't even write
Speaker 1: that online? Try it dar, all right?
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening,