Speaker 1: Look out.
Speaker 2: It's only films to be buried with. Hello, and welcome
Speaker 2: to films to be buried with. My name is Brett Goldstein.
Speaker 2: I'm a comedian and actor, a writer, a director, a
Speaker 2: sign and I love films. As Thomas Edison once said,
Speaker 2: our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain
Speaker 2: way to succeed is always to try just one more time.
Speaker 2: I do hope there's a part two. There is Tommy Relaxer. Please.
Speaker 2: Every week I invite a special guest over. I tell
Speaker 2: them they've died. Then I get them to discuss their
Speaker 2: life through the films that meant the most of them.
Speaker 2: Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Jimmy and Jamil, Mark Frost, Showerstone,
Speaker 2: and even Ked Bambles. But this week it is part
Speaker 2: two of the Perfectly On Time Earlier If Anything Films
Speaker 2: of the Year twenty twenty three specialism with business Nis Kumar.
Speaker 2: Head over to the Patreon at Patreon dot com, forward
Speaker 2: slash Brett Goldstein, where you get the extra stuff with this,
Speaker 2: including a secret get the whole episode uncut, ad free
Speaker 2: and as a video. Check it out over at Patreon
Speaker 2: dot com Forward slash Break Goldstein. I have included most
Speaker 2: of the Patreon for everyone this week except for the
Speaker 2: secret as that is for the Patreons only, and there's
Speaker 2: too much good stuff here and it is Christmas after
Speaker 2: also enjoy it. We left you on a traveling boner,
Speaker 2: so let's see what happened next. So that is it
Speaker 2: for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode three
Speaker 2: hundreds and three, Part two of the Perfectly on Time
Speaker 2: Early if Anything Films of the Year twenty twenty three
Speaker 2: special edition of the Films to be Buried with. Well,
Speaker 2: let's get to a traveling bonus. Worry, why does mine
Speaker 2: would be May December? Then, so let's talk about my December.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I thought it was brilliant. I mean, I get a huge, huge,
Speaker 3: huge Todd tignspan and I thought that it was an
Speaker 3: incredible film, I will say, and I do think this
Speaker 3: is quite important. I actually didn't know the real stories
Speaker 3: based on me, so I was coming to it. But
Speaker 3: I thought it had like such an interesting like ambivalence
Speaker 3: about filmmaking and acting and basing stories on real people. Again,
Speaker 3: there's also now kind of metalla to this where some
Speaker 3: of the real people involved in the true story I
Speaker 3: believe maybe upset about May December. So there's a kind
Speaker 3: of sort of ethical swirl of questions around it. But
Speaker 3: I thought it had such an interestingly it had an
Speaker 3: almost like hostile tone to the act of making a
Speaker 3: film based on a true story. That was one of
Speaker 3: the things that I read from it. I thought it
Speaker 3: was really funny at points. I thought that Julianne Moore's
Speaker 3: whole performance was so heightened. Natalie Portman was incredible in it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, and Charles Melton, who I think is in
Speaker 3: is in maybe river Dale. It's another one of these
Speaker 3: conversations where I go, this, this newcomer is spectacular, and
Speaker 3: everyone has to tell me, no, he's incredibly famous from
Speaker 3: something you've something that was on television that has just
Speaker 3: passed you by. But I thought he was. He was
Speaker 3: brilliant in it, and I thought I love Portman. I
Speaker 3: think Portman is such a such an interesting actor. What
Speaker 3: was the troubling element of the bonum for you?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: I love that film very much. The one question I have.
Speaker 2: We talked about this once. I don't think I understand
Speaker 2: what camp is. Keep think because I keep hearing that
Speaker 2: that film is very campy, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what that means, because I just loved it. I
Speaker 2: always slightly think CAMPI means bad or deliberately bad or
Speaker 2: something I never think I've fully understood, because I was
Speaker 2: just like, this is a fucking brilliant film, which you
Speaker 2: mean camp sounds to me like a like it was
Speaker 2: doing something.
Speaker 1: What does it mean? Am I thing?
Speaker 3: I thought that the point where there's an incredibly dramatic
Speaker 3: swell in the music and Julian Bore says we've run
Speaker 3: out of hot dogs, yeah, whilst holding the fridge door open,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, that I think is very camp. So
Speaker 3: what does it mean funny? I mean, I think it's like,
Speaker 3: I think it's any kind of I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's like think yeah.
Speaker 3: To me, it's like that sort of very, very heightened,
Speaker 3: almost cartoonish expression of emotions that has an air that
Speaker 3: I sort of recognize as being camp like, And it's
Speaker 3: like it's an exaggeration of emotional heightened drama and for
Speaker 3: that bit with the kind of massive swell of music
Speaker 3: and I don't think we have enough heart dogs like
Speaker 3: that sort of disconnect and the joke in that to
Speaker 3: me feels inherently camp. Okay, anything where some I feel
Speaker 3: like anything where it's where an emotion is almost pitched
Speaker 3: to an almost hysterical level that borders on being comedy
Speaker 3: and at times becomes comedy is campy. Okay, But I
Speaker 3: also don't know what I'm talking about. We might all
Speaker 3: have to read Susan's on Tugs on camp. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: but what troubled you about it?
Speaker 2: You know, it's about a woman who has slept with
Speaker 2: her It took me a long time because I'm not American.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what grade. They don't say how old
Speaker 2: he was as a child. Yeah, they just say what
Speaker 2: grade he was in. I was like, I don't know
Speaker 2: what that means. I don't But it turns out who's
Speaker 2: like twelve thirteen when they first got together, and then
Speaker 2: she goes to prison, and then she comes out prison
Speaker 2: and she marries him and has children with him, and
Speaker 2: so now he is an adult. So there's you know,
Speaker 2: it's all troubling the scenario. But Natalie Portman and Julia
Speaker 2: and More, two of the most beautiful and most brilliant
Speaker 2: actors ever. There's like a sequence which I really love
Speaker 2: where the two of them are in the mirror and
Speaker 2: they're both just facing the camera and Nadalie Portman's trying
Speaker 2: to sort of copy her makeup as More's makeup, and
Speaker 2: the two of them are talking and it's kind of
Speaker 2: sort of they're feeling each other out, and they're dancing
Speaker 2: around each other and trying to evade each other and
Speaker 2: connect and it's very sexy. And I don't quite know
Speaker 2: why it's so sexy other than they're both brilliant. But
Speaker 2: also I'm like, the whole film is I guess troubling
Speaker 2: because of the situation, but everyone's so beautiful and sexy.
Speaker 4: I don't know what meant to think. Does that make sense? Yeah,
Speaker 4: it definitely makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: In the end, my actual troubling boner was Tar, and
Speaker 3: we should just move on from that.
Speaker 5: Tell us why, because I feel like I should have
Speaker 5: to explain that because Tar is obviously a troubling boner
Speaker 5: because it's about an incredibly unpleasant person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's still Kate Blanchet in a suit and
Speaker 3: I'm a human being.
Speaker 1: You want to get shouted out by Kate?
Speaker 3: Leave me alone? Yes, Okay, it's not good. I don't
Speaker 3: think any any element of it is good. I got
Speaker 3: proud of it. Nope, I'm ashamed of it. That's why,
Speaker 3: in a year of troubling boners, Cap Blanchette and tasted
Speaker 3: out as the most troubling of all of the boners.
Speaker 1: Her performance is that of a troubled bona.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole thing. It's a troubling bon for a
Speaker 3: person who is in this midst of a crisis caused
Speaker 3: by her troubling bonus.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's worrying.
Speaker 3: It's worrying, White on the movie listen, t is fucking brilliant, brilliant,
Speaker 3: worry what. It's a fucking brilliant film.
Speaker 1: He really is.
Speaker 2: That's one of them films that was going to be
Speaker 2: on the question for that film would be a film
Speaker 2: that some people don't like and you have no idea
Speaker 2: why not. It's just a really good film.
Speaker 1: It's a great movie, like and it was.
Speaker 3: I think before it came out, there was this sort
Speaker 3: of idea that it was going to be it was
Speaker 3: going to be this like takedown of cancel culture, and
Speaker 3: you sort of go, it's so much more interesting and
Speaker 3: complicated and nuanced than that. And I love the final
Speaker 3: sort of last half hour of it. I really love
Speaker 3: when she goes back to her childhood home and she
Speaker 3: finds her old VHS recordings of Leonard Bernstein doing his
Speaker 3: like public access TV shows, trying to teach children about
Speaker 3: classical music, and like there's just a sequence of her
Speaker 3: watching it, and you understand, you know, it's like trying
Speaker 3: to understand like a really monstrous person, because she she
Speaker 3: definitely does things that are She's awful in so many ways,
Speaker 3: but it gets to the core of something about like she,
Speaker 3: like like a lot of monsters, she kind of started
Speaker 3: from a there was there was a pure intent, like
Speaker 3: she does love music, but she's so sort of corrupted
Speaker 3: by her inabilities to control he run impulses. Like I
Speaker 3: think that that movie, her performance in that, and Franzwackgowski
Speaker 3: in Passages are like two really interesting films about people,
Speaker 3: like people who work in the kind of creative industries
Speaker 3: who are sort of in their in each of their
Speaker 3: own way, monsters or unpleasant in some way.
Speaker 1: What is your best third part of a trilogy? Film? Three?
Speaker 3: Well, Guard of the Galaxy Volume three, great film. It
Speaker 3: was a lot. It was a really nice way to
Speaker 3: close it off. And I think as those Marvel films
Speaker 3: fall down, this kind of trap of trying to perpetuate
Speaker 3: a storyline that can spin out into more films. It
Speaker 3: was quite nice to watch something that I mean, they
Speaker 3: may well make other movies, but it was nice to
Speaker 3: watch something that felt truly like the end of a
Speaker 3: story and the end of a group of characters that
Speaker 3: we've sort of built up a relationship with.
Speaker 4: What was your end part of a trilogy? Creed three,
Speaker 4: Creed three, great movie. I love Creed three so much.
Speaker 4: It is when you love Creed three, Hollywood making a
Speaker 4: good Holly film. Creed three is so good. It's genuinely complicated.
Speaker 1: Have you seen it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love genuinely I love the Creed films.
Speaker 2: It's Creed a bad guy. You're not a bad guy,
Speaker 2: but the Creed you're rooting for the other guy. You're
Speaker 2: sort of genuinely rooting for him for quite a lot
Speaker 2: of the film in a way that it's quite brave
Speaker 2: for a film like that, Like and it even makes
Speaker 2: the climactic fake. You sort of want them both to
Speaker 2: have that, like it's a you're really kind of roots you.
Speaker 2: You ultimately want Creed to win, but you wouldn't mind
Speaker 2: if the other guy.
Speaker 3: It's a I was wondering watching it, whether that was
Speaker 3: an idea that they'd had for a film. You know,
Speaker 3: sometimes there's a film idea that goes around and then
Speaker 3: someone thinks we could make you can make that a
Speaker 3: Diehold or something like that, because the idea of you know,
Speaker 3: a champion boxer whose childhood friend who actually secretly might
Speaker 3: have been the more talented of the two, but who
Speaker 3: you know, they have this like they have this sort
Speaker 3: of sliding doors moment where he sort of takes the
Speaker 3: blame for something that and goes to jail.
Speaker 1: And it's a it's a good it's a good concept.
Speaker 3: It's just a really good idea for a movie, for
Speaker 3: a boxing movie, and then you put the kind of
Speaker 3: Creed sort of name on it and the build up
Speaker 3: that they've had over the previous two movies.
Speaker 1: I'd love Michael B. Jordan. I think he's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's really good. Yeah, Yeah, I really enjoyed cre three.
Speaker 3: I thought it was excellent.
Speaker 2: Which film do you think was the most impressive low
Speaker 2: budget film? You saw what film did the most with
Speaker 2: the least money?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: I think that for me, I can't believe How to
Speaker 3: Have Sex is a first feature.
Speaker 1: I love that film, like I thought it was.
Speaker 3: Really really brilliant, and again, like with not a big budget,
Speaker 3: I just thought, what a really don't know, I just thought,
Speaker 3: what a genuinely sort of complicated and thornier story that
Speaker 3: has so much layers and nuance. What an amazing thing
Speaker 3: to have made look effortless. Like that's what I think
Speaker 3: with that, and you know it's a low budget British moviv.
Speaker 3: I just I thought it was. I thought I thought
Speaker 3: it was an incredible achievement.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is in my top three that film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can talk about it. I imagine it's I
Speaker 3: imagine it's in various categories for you.
Speaker 2: It's fucking brilliant that film. It's in not it's it's
Speaker 2: very very different. But in the way that I feel
Speaker 2: about the film sometimes rarely never always, which was my
Speaker 2: greatest film of last year, where it feels.
Speaker 3: That was a couple of years ago. Now I know
Speaker 3: we're slowly losing track of time with these.
Speaker 2: But it feels like a documentary in terms of the
Speaker 2: acting is so natural, everything, every part of it feels
Speaker 2: so real, and they definitely look I don't know, but
Speaker 2: it seems to me they did. They must have just
Speaker 2: so basically the film is a kind of sixteen year
Speaker 2: olds going on their first holiday alone as girls, and
Speaker 2: they go to Magloof I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's supposed to but yeah, I think
Speaker 3: it's certainly one of the various party destination party destinations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they and it's the first time.
Speaker 2: They're very excited and they get involved with some people
Speaker 2: in the room next door who are these guys and
Speaker 2: a girl, and then they sort of party through the
Speaker 2: week and one of them is a virgin and things
Speaker 2: happen along the way and it's just sort of all
Speaker 2: of it's just sort of observed and it's very subtle,
Speaker 2: and the story that it tells, like the moment where
Speaker 2: the guy where Badger goes on stage to play the
Speaker 2: last game of that thing, it's it's so kind of
Speaker 2: what it has to say about the culture and the
Speaker 2: the complexities of sex and yeah, this culture that is
Speaker 2: encouraging wildness and drink, but it's also real and those
Speaker 2: holidays are you know, we've all been on them holidays
Speaker 2: and it felt like so real. And this story with
Speaker 2: the girl is so kind of, so subtly told, and
Speaker 2: it's just brilliant casting. And she she the lead actor,
Speaker 2: is so kind of natural, but she's inherently vulnerable because
Speaker 2: she's shorter than everyone else in the cast, And so
Speaker 2: you this was going to be one of my film
Speaker 2: that scared me deviced it was in the area because
Speaker 2: the whole film, you're just like, you feel so protective
Speaker 2: of her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she's because she's.
Speaker 2: Small and she's young, and you're like, yeah, God, I
Speaker 2: hope you're going to be and the kind of nuance
Speaker 2: between the guys. It's a fucking excellent film. It's really, really,
Speaker 2: really good. It's but I just assume it was made
Speaker 2: on the on the run.
Speaker 1: It really does feel like that.
Speaker 2: I can't believe they had permission to film in places.
Speaker 2: I think they just must have gone in clubs. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's brilliant.
Speaker 3: It's just an amazing achievement. Molly Manning, Walker and the lead,
Speaker 3: me and McKenna Bruce. It's like like everyone involved in
Speaker 3: that film has pulled off something really spectacular, but particularly
Speaker 3: those two that performance, the way, the control of the
Speaker 3: sort of way that it's directed that makes you feel
Speaker 3: immersed in it. So you're kind of swept up in it,
Speaker 3: even though you even though when it starts and they're
Speaker 3: so just excited to be there. You know, it's that
Speaker 3: adrenaline rush of like being on holiday with your friends
Speaker 3: unsupervised for the first time. That it's that you do
Speaker 3: get caught up in the kind of excitement of it,
Speaker 3: even though you know that it's there's going to be
Speaker 3: something bad that happens, and the way it gets into
Speaker 3: conversations about consent and gray areas around consent and how like,
Speaker 3: actually you sort of it's like a thing, you like,
Speaker 3: boys need to be taught about this kind of stuff,
Speaker 3: Like it's it's a film that I hope. I read
Speaker 3: an interview with the director where she said that they
Speaker 3: screened it somewhere and then there was like a man
Speaker 3: in his sixties outside like looking angry, and when she
Speaker 3: was walking out, she thought he was going to bollock her.
Speaker 3: And he came up to her and said, I think
Speaker 3: I might have done that to a girl. And it
Speaker 3: had like sent him on this whole like it had
Speaker 3: spun him out, and it's like it's an it's an
Speaker 3: incredibly I thought.
Speaker 1: It was brilliant. I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 3: It's terribly sad, and I definitely I remember sitting down
Speaker 3: in the cinema and like there was like a group
Speaker 3: of people who were kind of watching it, like they
Speaker 3: were going to watch like Kevin and Perry go large
Speaker 3: or something yeah, yeah, or human traffic, and I there's
Speaker 3: a part of me that actually wanted to go up
Speaker 3: to them and be like, guys, I think the poster
Speaker 3: is slightly misleading here.
Speaker 1: Ye, but yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2: But I like it does other things that I love
Speaker 2: in a film, which is I think it has deep
Speaker 2: love for all of its characters. I think it has
Speaker 2: empathy for all of them. And there's kind of like
Speaker 2: Badger is kind of tragic, Like I think the scene, yeah,
Speaker 2: when he goes up on stage.
Speaker 1: And that thing happens.
Speaker 2: You should see the film, Like, yeah, it's sad, and
Speaker 2: I think he sat in the next day he goes,
Speaker 2: I don't remember anything, and you're like, yeah, you do,
Speaker 2: And yeah it's God, it's good. The dynamics between all
Speaker 2: of them, between the girls and between the guys and
Speaker 2: their friendships and the way it's all done with looks
Speaker 2: it's a tremendous bit of work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what was the film that you loved from
Speaker 3: the low budget And.
Speaker 2: My answer is Godzilla minus one fantastic god Z minus one.
Speaker 2: How did they do that for ten pounds?
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 6: It just makes sense they made it for it doesn't
Speaker 6: make sense. It's ten pounds. It's such a good film
Speaker 6: ten pounds. Imagine making god Zilla minus one ten pounds.
Speaker 6: It's so good, it's so brilliant. It's a very good film, emotional,
Speaker 6: deep and has huge war sequences and Godzilla sequences. And
Speaker 6: you're like, very excited.
Speaker 3: To see what happens with the people that did that,
Speaker 3: and talk to me because you're like, I mean, if
Speaker 3: you can pull that off on those budgets, very excited
Speaker 3: to see what happens next.
Speaker 1: What was your favorite missing impossible film for.
Speaker 3: Well, listen, he just keeps rolling on, doesn't he. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he just keeps rolling on with Dead Reckoning is fucking great.
Speaker 3: Loved it, absolutely loved it.
Speaker 1: What more do you want?
Speaker 2: I think a special shout out to Pailey Atwell, who
Speaker 2: is a movie star, old school movie star, like and
Speaker 2: the second she's in it, you're like, I love you.
Speaker 2: You're so charming and funny and light and like light
Speaker 2: shines from you and you really get this sort of
Speaker 2: this sort of movie acting, which is like fucking charisma
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, she's she's brilliant in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's my one my one slight, My only slight
Speaker 3: reservation about it is that the part one of two
Speaker 3: nus of it, which has happened for a few films
Speaker 3: this year, including Spider Verse, means that there's just a
Speaker 3: middle bit where you like, there's just a bit more
Speaker 3: exposition than there normally would be in this film because
Speaker 3: you've got to set up the second one. And my
Speaker 3: only other reservation is massive spoiler alert, don't kill Rebecca Ferguson.
Speaker 3: We love Rebecca Ferguson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've talked you about this before. There's a weird
Speaker 2: bit when Rebecca Ferguson. There's a weird bit of filmmaking.
Speaker 2: It's a very long fight scene with Rebecca Ferguson. It
Speaker 2: takes about six minutes I think maybe more. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: during the fight scene with Rebecca Ferguson, the music is
Speaker 2: really sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, she's definitely gonna.
Speaker 2: Die because you've got sad music over this six minute
Speaker 2: secret Why is this? Seemingly she's doing very well in
Speaker 2: this fight, but the music is yeah, yeah, the music.
Speaker 3: Direction yeah, obviously, the motorcycle jump is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: They train the train, the train at the end. The
Speaker 1: train at the end is incredible.
Speaker 3: It is amazing that they're still finding they're still finding
Speaker 3: new imaginative action problems to put him in. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: can't wait for part two. What is the film that
Speaker 3: made you laugh the most? I'll tell you what. There
Speaker 3: were some movies that did make me laugh a lot.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed Theater Camp a lot. I thought that was
Speaker 3: very charming, very funny. I really really well done. So
Speaker 3: many like that, just very stacked cast, so many really
Speaker 3: funny people a de Biri. I absolutely love the fact
Speaker 3: that every so often that people who make comedy films
Speaker 3: are now just like, let us deploy Patty Harrison, deploy
Speaker 3: the Harrison drop Patty Harrison in She's She Could, She's
Speaker 3: gonna be so funny, perfect, Like, I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: It's so fun funny to me.
Speaker 3: But I think the film that probably made me laugh
Speaker 3: the most actually was Ry Lane made absolutely so delighted.
Speaker 3: It's a very very extreme it's shot in South London,
Speaker 3: and it's it's a sort of it's a very charming
Speaker 3: rom com, very familiar part of the world to me.
Speaker 3: I think they've walked past about three places I've lived in,
Speaker 3: not even just the areas, I mean the specific roads
Speaker 3: in Brixton and in and around Brixton. It's delightful. The
Speaker 3: two leads are delightful. I will say the blow job
Speaker 3: Hummers set piece is one of the things I've made
Speaker 3: me laugh the most. And like the way that that's
Speaker 3: done and the sort of like funny inventive filmmaking techniques
Speaker 3: that they used to illustrate two people telling stories to
Speaker 3: each other about their lives, which isn't inherently cinematic though,
Speaker 3: as we've discussed on many occasions, it is my favorite
Speaker 3: sub genre of movie, just two people walking around talking
Speaker 3: because of them before before trilogy, but it really made
Speaker 3: me laugh. I thought that the script was great.
Speaker 1: I thought the way it was made was great.
Speaker 3: I thought they just consistently stuffed it with really funny
Speaker 3: people and I was delighted by it.
Speaker 1: It is delightful. Yeah, love that film. What was your
Speaker 1: funniest film? Regan? Oh? Loved?
Speaker 3: Should we say that we're talking about the film Megan
Speaker 3: or well? Do you think people will know?
Speaker 1: Mthreagan?
Speaker 2: I went in, you know, who knows what I was
Speaker 2: expecting Killer film from Bluemhouse, who tend to make very
Speaker 2: good films. What I wasn't expecting was a fun so
Speaker 2: fun and so funny and the it's so entertaining and
Speaker 2: there's a like I think one of the biggest loves
Speaker 2: I have is when the doll turns like looks fucking
Speaker 2: like what did you say? The Siloicris, it's such a
Speaker 2: good it's really funny, and the idea is good.
Speaker 1: It's a good idea for a film.
Speaker 2: And the design of the doe and these sort of
Speaker 2: actual kind of logistics of or whatever the word is
Speaker 2: of making that dough and the way the doll moves
Speaker 2: and the way the doe looks like. The film doesn't
Speaker 2: work if the dough is ship but the dough is
Speaker 2: brilliant and the way the doll moves is brilliant, and.
Speaker 1: It's really funny. It's like it's a comedy. It's happy.
Speaker 3: I think it's like happy death though, Like it's that
Speaker 3: they're they're really they're they're comedies really yeah again and
Speaker 3: Roddy Chegg just popping up.
Speaker 1: Love it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a five style film. I have no Chris,
Speaker 2: this is brilliant, is just.
Speaker 3: Brilliant it's there was no better time had in the cinema,
Speaker 3: Like just in terms of if you want to have
Speaker 3: a fun one hundred minutes, there was no better example
Speaker 3: of that than the Reagan What.
Speaker 2: Is the most underseen film that you love the most,
Speaker 2: that deserves a shout out?
Speaker 3: So look, I watched Reality Great because I you know,
Speaker 3: it's subject matter that interests me. I read a couple
Speaker 3: of articles about it, but the like, the process for
Speaker 3: me to sort of track it down was difficult, Like
Speaker 3: it was, there's so few screenings of it, which I'm
Speaker 3: sort of surprised by because, like Sidney Sweeney is incredibly famous,
Speaker 3: so I think I have sort of assumed it would
Speaker 3: get a wider I think it might be one of
Speaker 3: those things where we got it in the cinemas here
Speaker 3: on a very limited run.
Speaker 1: But I think it might be an HBO film.
Speaker 3: So it's a it's a verbatim film, so it's the
Speaker 3: script is assembled from transcripts of the recordings the FBI
Speaker 3: make when they turn up at the house of Reality Winner.
Speaker 3: Who who was an n say translator and leap and yeah,
Speaker 3: I know, yeah we should Yeah.
Speaker 2: Really confuses every part of telling every time you try
Speaker 2: and talk about this film. I have to understand this
Speaker 2: person's actual name is Reality Winner.
Speaker 1: That is their name.
Speaker 2: This is nothing to do with reality TV. No, it's
Speaker 2: not a joke. There's a real human person who was
Speaker 2: called by their parents' Reality Winner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, her name is Reality Winner. And she.
Speaker 3: Leaks an intelligence report about Russian interference into the twenty
Speaker 3: sixteen elections. And you know, she does confess to this
Speaker 3: because she sort of she sees Trump and kind of
Speaker 3: Trump acolytes on television saying, you know, well, there's no
Speaker 3: record of any sort of Russian interference, and as somebody
Speaker 3: who's working the intelligence service, you know, she admits that
Speaker 3: she couldn't stomach it because she said, I'm looking at
Speaker 3: information about Russian interference, like you can make an argument
Speaker 3: about whether or not it swayed the election, but her
Speaker 3: point is that they are outright lying. So she leaks
Speaker 3: that to the Intercept and so they turned it into
Speaker 3: a piece of debatim theater and again is it is
Speaker 3: literally the the transcripts, and they've now adapted that into
Speaker 3: a film. And I thought it was I thought it
Speaker 3: was brilliant. I've never and listen, perfectly happy to be
Speaker 3: directed on this and I'm sure there's loads of examples
Speaker 3: is but I've never seen a film like I've never seen.
Speaker 3: I'd heard of the Beati Theater, but I don't think
Speaker 3: i'd actually seen of Abatim film before. There's lots of
Speaker 3: like filmmaking tricks used by Tina Santa, who's the director,
Speaker 3: to sort of you know, you sort of see the
Speaker 3: wavelines from the recording machine. There are bits of the
Speaker 3: of the transcript that are redacted because it has classified information,
Speaker 3: and people like disappear. Would they start to say the
Speaker 3: name that they're going to say, and then the characters
Speaker 3: just disappear on the screen. So it's it's properly like
Speaker 3: it's filmmaking. It's not just put some cameras up in
Speaker 3: film the place, proper filmmaking. I thought all the performances
Speaker 3: are incredible. I think Sidney Sweeny is amazing in.
Speaker 1: It, like, yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 3: I really thought it was an incredible film, and it
Speaker 3: was a great movie about whistle blowing. And it's the
Speaker 3: real transcript, so it has this whole other layer of
Speaker 3: you know, you sort of realize how people, when under pressure,
Speaker 3: people don't speak in perfectly formed sentences and they don't
Speaker 3: articulate themselves clearly, and so what you're you actually has
Speaker 3: that feeling of just being immersed in an interrogation where
Speaker 3: the two people, you know, people conducted the interrogation are
Speaker 3: trying to maintain it's not an interrogation, but it's it's
Speaker 3: a fucking interrogation. Yeah, and like the way you feel
Speaker 3: her kind of unravel. I thought, I thought it was brilliant.
Speaker 3: I really really hope people go and watch it. I
Speaker 3: thought it was I thought it was such a good film.
Speaker 3: Huge agree, it's excellent. And it's also the seeing the
Speaker 3: reality of this interrogation and the fiation up and it's
Speaker 3: so the again, just the kind of mechanics of the
Speaker 3: reality of that of like a load of men turn
Speaker 3: up at this young woman's house. She's on her own.
Speaker 3: It's quite scary, and they're just they're trying to be
Speaker 3: kind of charming, but there's a vague undercurrent of threat
Speaker 3: and it's like, where's your dog and we should lock
Speaker 3: the dog up, so we're going to come inside and
Speaker 3: she's just having to stay calm, but there's like too
Speaker 3: many men there and it's like what's going on here?
Speaker 3: It's really it's really good.
Speaker 2: I've got two others finish and I don't know if
Speaker 2: you've seen these films, but they You will fucking love
Speaker 2: these films because these films are your favorite genre of film,
Speaker 2: and that genre is Honkis be Terrible.
Speaker 1: We'll come back to Hongis be terrible. These films.
Speaker 3: Let's confessed that one of my favorite film types of
Speaker 3: film is Honkys be terrible.
Speaker 1: The whites are acting out, You're a new character. Hugy
Speaker 1: be terrible. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But these two films.
Speaker 1: One is called one thousand and one. Have you seen it?
Speaker 2: I have not one thousand and one by Avy Rockwell
Speaker 2: starring Tiana Taylor, and it is You.
Speaker 1: Will love it, Oh my god, you'll love it. And
Speaker 1: it is a film.
Speaker 2: It's a story of a mother who gets out of
Speaker 2: prison and is trying to see her son, who she
Speaker 2: does not have custody or any more. The sun is
Speaker 2: in foster care, and she eventually kind of steals kidnaps
Speaker 2: her own child, and then the film goes over I
Speaker 2: don't know how many years, quite a few years, twenty
Speaker 2: years maybe more of their life where they kind of
Speaker 2: in hiding, but she's living in New York and it
Speaker 2: also has time goes on the gentrification of New York
Speaker 2: and the area happens, and the performance of the lead
Speaker 2: is incredible, Like it's you know, that's one of the
Speaker 2: performances of all time. And it's so well made, and
Speaker 2: it looks like it's shot in film. I don't believe
Speaker 2: it is shot on film, but it feels very kind
Speaker 2: of like seventy cinema and it's fucking excellent, and you
Speaker 2: really it's very moving and just a story of these lives.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: You know, one of my favorite genres is time passing.
Speaker 2: I love, and this film probably we.
Speaker 3: Like Richard Basically what you're saying is we like Richard Lakelet.
Speaker 1: It's tremendous, tremendous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw it and I thought I got to
Speaker 3: see that, and then it's sort of slightly is one
Speaker 3: of those that slipped through the cracks.
Speaker 2: And then there is a film, a Canadian film that
Speaker 2: I saw on a plane, and you know, that is
Speaker 2: not my ideal way to see anything, but I had
Speaker 2: no other chance to see it. And it is a
Speaker 2: film called Brother and it is made by Clement Ergo
Speaker 2: and it's a Canadian film and it is top.
Speaker 1: Three I think, right oka it is fucking.
Speaker 2: Brilliant, and it will be compared to Moonlight, and that
Speaker 2: is fine because it is a bit like Moonlight in
Speaker 2: terms of it's kind of I think it. I think
Speaker 2: it is three time periods of this boy's life, this
Speaker 2: boy and his brother, and there are kind of similarities
Speaker 2: thematically between the two films. And it's really really beautiful
Speaker 2: and so well done. And the undercurrent of it is
Speaker 2: your favorite genre of filmy's terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really all whites are acting up.
Speaker 2: It's really good, beautifully made film and oh it's good,
Speaker 2: and it stayed with me. I remember every second of it.
Speaker 2: I love it very much. I think it's very very good.
Speaker 2: I would urge you to see those two films.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 3: Can I also, just before we move on, give a
Speaker 3: quick shout out to Emily the Criminal and do my
Speaker 3: now my now annual tradition of shoehorning an Aubrey Plaza
Speaker 3: film into every one of these podcasts. But I do
Speaker 3: just think she's doing some like very varied, wild and
Speaker 3: interesting work. And Emily the Criminal is again it's okay.
Speaker 3: The background to it is like, oh, capitalism is collapsing
Speaker 3: that again, it's like that's the weird.
Speaker 1: That's one of the.
Speaker 3: Key themes of movies in twenty twenty three. But it's
Speaker 3: about this woman who have you? Did you see it?
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it. It's basically about a woman who's like,
Speaker 3: he's struggling to pay off her student loans, so she
Speaker 3: basically gets involved in a credit card fraudering and it's
Speaker 3: like it's just a very very like lean, ninety minute
Speaker 3: nasty thriller. Aubrey plaz is brilliant in it. It's got
Speaker 3: one of the most horribly realistic fight scenes, like in
Speaker 3: a way that it's not like in a way that
Speaker 3: real fights are not like dramatic. They're kind of awkward,
Speaker 3: but also people get really hurt in them, but they
Speaker 3: don't look cinematic. They just look like two people just
Speaker 3: sort of fumbling around each other. Like sex and fighting
Speaker 3: are the two things that look way less glamorous and real.
Speaker 3: They do it film, but it's got a horribly realistic
Speaker 3: quite scene. It's a ninety minute lean, like not one
Speaker 3: unnecessary word in it. She's brilliant in it. Emily the
Speaker 3: Criminal check it out. I loved it, loved it.
Speaker 2: Let's do this Do Do Do Do Do Do Do
Speaker 2: Do Do Do, Do.
Speaker 1: Do Do Do.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the arbitrary Patriot section coming in at some
Speaker 2: point this might be a Patriot section.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: We've talked for only two hours, so who knows. What
Speaker 2: is the best beginning to a film this year?
Speaker 3: My best beginning was Across the Spider Verse, because I loved,
Speaker 3: loved into the Spider Verse so much. I think it's
Speaker 3: so beautiful. And then Across the Spider Verse starts you
Speaker 3: off in Gwen Stacy's world, and I just thought it
Speaker 3: was so stunning, and it looked so different. They had
Speaker 3: a completely different color palette, the art style completely changed,
Speaker 3: and I just thought it was just such a brilliant
Speaker 3: way to start that movie.
Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was lovely. What
Speaker 1: was your best opening? Maybe anatomy of a full?
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice, anatomy of a full We have a very
Speaker 2: long sort of interrog going on. You get pimp on
Speaker 2: the steel drums, Yeah, sort of playing catch up in
Speaker 2: this world. It's a very good sort of froze you
Speaker 2: into it. You're like, who are these people? What the
Speaker 2: hell is going on? And then a murder or a
Speaker 2: fool happened in the snow.
Speaker 3: It's an answer to mind for another for a different question,
Speaker 3: so we can return to that.
Speaker 1: What's the best ending?
Speaker 3: The flat moments, the Lynch cameo as John Ford. You know,
Speaker 3: if the horizons at the bottom is interesting, if the
Speaker 3: rises at the top is interesting, if the horizons in the
Speaker 3: middle is boring, good luck with your filmmaking career, now
Speaker 3: get now, get the fuck out of my office. I
Speaker 3: think I can't remember the exact phrasing, but it's good.
Speaker 3: I think it's something like, good luck with your career,
Speaker 3: now get the fuck out of my office.
Speaker 1: He walks out.
Speaker 3: He walks off into the distance, the horizons in the middle.
Speaker 3: The camera is jolted and the horizon gets put at
Speaker 3: the at the bottom of the fray. I loved it.
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that the sort of incorporation
Speaker 3: of the camera into the storytelling.
Speaker 1: They met a thing. I loved it. I thought it
Speaker 1: was great. What was your best ending?
Speaker 2: My best ending? This is a film we haven't talked about.
Speaker 2: I actually think that it might be Maestro, and I'll
Speaker 2: tell you the way. Yeah, I think Maestro is a
Speaker 2: very underrated film. A lot of people were mean about
Speaker 2: My Stroke, turned on My Stroke, and I suspect that
Speaker 2: has more to do with publicity and awards campaigns and
Speaker 2: things like that. I think my store is brilliant. I've
Speaker 2: loved my stroke went to see it. I think when
Speaker 2: I've heard people talk about it in the negative way,
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I think you're not talking about
Speaker 2: you're missing what the film. What the film's really about,
Speaker 2: Like when people are talking about his conducting or whatever
Speaker 2: the fuck they're talking about, it is like, it's a
Speaker 2: really heartbreaking film about a marriage. And the bit that
Speaker 2: I think is so sort of killer about it is
Speaker 2: when she says, quite late in it, she says, I
Speaker 2: think it was kind of I think her words are
Speaker 2: like over arrogant of me to believe that I didn't
Speaker 2: have needs, that I exist without my needs being met
Speaker 2: or something. The kind of deal that she has made
Speaker 2: in this marriage is like, we'll have a good marriage,
Speaker 2: but he's going to be up to all sorts and
Speaker 2: that was kind of agreed at the beginning, and she's
Speaker 2: in love, thinks that she can live with that, and
Speaker 2: it turns out as time goes on maybe she can't.
Speaker 2: But there was a kind of confidence in her own
Speaker 2: self esteem, in her own sense of self that yeah
Speaker 2: of course I can handle that because I love him,
Speaker 2: and I think that's I certainly seemed to me a
Speaker 2: very real thing about love and relationships. And I also
Speaker 2: think there's her These are all spoilers for the film,
Speaker 2: but she gets cancer and her the end of her
Speaker 2: life section of that film I think is beautifully done.
Speaker 2: I think it's so real and moving, and the way
Speaker 2: they are as a family is sort of heartbreaking. And
Speaker 2: I think at the beginning of the film, there's this
Speaker 2: like quote where it's something about the two sides of
Speaker 2: an artist, the impossible extremes of one thing and another,
Speaker 2: and how those two contrasts something something I mean, I
Speaker 2: probably should live, something about the duality of the impossibility
Speaker 2: of being one thing and the contrast between two things
Speaker 2: makes up or something like that. Something like that anyway,
Speaker 2: And what I think makes the film for me much
Speaker 2: more sort of possibly profound is the word than it
Speaker 2: is given credit for, is that it has this sequence
Speaker 2: where she dies of cancer, and it's done so beautifully
Speaker 2: and it's so moving. But it's not like we haven't
Speaker 2: seen that kind of thing before in film, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's the loss of a partner, and it's portrayed
Speaker 2: beautifully and it's very sad, and we watch from the
Speaker 2: distance of the family hug each other, and the film
Speaker 2: could end there. It could go back to him in
Speaker 2: his old age makeup giving his interview in him saying
Speaker 2: and I loved her, I loved her so much. That
Speaker 2: does happen. But what happens after that is we then
Speaker 2: see him in a gay club, sweaterly dancing with his
Speaker 2: student and coming on to his student, and that's the end.
Speaker 2: And it is like, I think it's so interesting thing
Speaker 2: to include that bit, because it is it has taken
Speaker 2: you to this moment where you're sort of heartbroken and
Speaker 2: you're so moved, and it's saying this is true, but also.
Speaker 1: This is true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this was a love this was real, this
Speaker 2: was marriage, this was family.
Speaker 1: But also here's a possibly kind of creepy guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, where he probably shouldn't be at this age
Speaker 2: with these people who are his students getting off with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like I was like, that's really good. That's good. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think it's underrated in that way that
Speaker 2: it includes that bit, because it is the very thing
Speaker 2: it's said at the beginning. It's like, all of these
Speaker 2: things are true. He was a family, he was a
Speaker 2: good father, he was a love. He was also a
Speaker 2: bit of a pairv you know what I mean, Like yeah,
Speaker 2: and he was also a great artist. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: all of these things, and that's kind of hard to
Speaker 2: keep in your head. And that's what this art is
Speaker 2: trying to do, I believe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very nice, fair argument for most, very fair argument,
Speaker 3: very fair argument. I'm going to revisit it. Think Maestro
Speaker 3: is a movie that suffered from me watching on TV TV.
Speaker 3: But the sequence where like where she's el Is is
Speaker 3: very good, and also their fight with the mad Macy's
Speaker 3: Day parade.
Speaker 1: In the background.
Speaker 3: But it's another theme of twenty twenty three, the complicated marriages. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because Maestro Oppenheimer May December, you hurt my feelings. They're
Speaker 3: all about how do you sustain a marriage and how
Speaker 3: do you move through like difficulties, some of which are
Speaker 3: pre arranged and some of which are sprung on you
Speaker 3: in a marriage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, very good stuff.
Speaker 2: What's your favorite set piece, not beginning, not end, just
Speaker 2: to set piece in a film.
Speaker 3: Well, look, I think this thing has taken on a
Speaker 3: life of its own or it's one of it's the
Speaker 3: same piece that took on a life it's own, almost
Speaker 3: as it was happening to us. But I'm just ken. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, it's when you watch it in the film.
Speaker 3: You know, I watched it in a cinema and people
Speaker 3: sort of like hooting with delight at it. And you know,
Speaker 3: then the Oscar's performance, which is incredible, sort of just
Speaker 3: he has just sort of heightened the kind of the
Speaker 3: like furvor of people enjoying that particular sequence. But the
Speaker 3: scene in the movie is also brilliant in of itself.
Speaker 3: The other highlights of Barbie for me, the thing that
Speaker 3: made me laugh. The two things that maybe laugh the
Speaker 3: most are him when she agrees to go out on
Speaker 3: a date with him closing the door and screaming sublime,
Speaker 3: which really made me absolutely how and Kate McKinnon describing
Speaker 3: herself as smelling of basement I thought was the best
Speaker 3: line in the movie.
Speaker 1: But it's a great song.
Speaker 3: It's a really really fantastic set piece, the sets and
Speaker 3: the way that it's filmed. It's just like, yeah, it
Speaker 3: was so much fun, and it's and then and then
Speaker 3: to sort of top it off, he does it at
Speaker 3: the Oscars and Slash Prize. The guitar siloighted, so like, well,
Speaker 3: congratulations Ryan Gosling, you are very good.
Speaker 1: He's very good, very very good. He's very very good,
Speaker 1: very good. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's funny because you sort of go sometimes in like entertainment,
Speaker 3: it's quite abstracted, and especially when you're like trying to
Speaker 3: do those award shows, you're like, what are people really
Speaker 3: looking for? And then you watch that and you go,
Speaker 3: is that that's exactly sorry, that's exactly what everyone wants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what everyone wants.
Speaker 3: Show business, charismatic, self aware show business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's exactly what people want.
Speaker 2: My answer, Can I have two? But they're from the
Speaker 2: close they're in the same film. Weirdly that I've picked
Speaker 2: these in the film No Hard Feelings, And look, I
Speaker 2: think there is issues with the film No Hard Feelings,
Speaker 2: because I do think the last half hour feels like
Speaker 2: it got reshot and like it kind of changes. I
Speaker 2: was a bit confused by the last like hang on
Speaker 2: what happened? But it all going a bit so it
Speaker 2: gets a bit sincere maybe at the end, but it's
Speaker 2: a very very fun hour and a half and there
Speaker 2: is a set piece that is so well done and
Speaker 2: what it does and how it plays with an ad.
Speaker 2: It's basically Jennifer Lawrence goes skinny dipping with the guy
Speaker 2: in the sea at night, and the way it's shot
Speaker 2: is you just see her legs as her clothes come down,
Speaker 2: so you just see the bottom of her legs. So
Speaker 2: it's as if the film is going, obviously, we're not
Speaker 2: going to show you any nudity, and it's like kind
Speaker 2: of in the waters and neck and you go like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I guess it's it's one of these films.
Speaker 3: This is the cinematic vocabulary of nudity in a PG thirty.
Speaker 3: Yes we all know it, we've all seen it.
Speaker 1: We know exactly what it.
Speaker 2: Plays out like that, and you go like, yes, of course,
Speaker 2: we're not going to see any nudity in this film.
Speaker 2: And then some people on the beach steal their clothes
Speaker 2: and then suddenly jenniferlones fully nude, gets out of the
Speaker 2: beach and beats the shit out everyone.
Speaker 1: It's so surprising.
Speaker 2: And so well done and funny and sort of it's
Speaker 2: brilliantly set up because you can't believe it.
Speaker 1: You just can't believe it.
Speaker 2: It's really funny and great and sexy and cool.
Speaker 1: And it's a really good set piece.
Speaker 2: And then later in this film, which maybe is my
Speaker 2: best film because I've got so many things, I love
Speaker 2: it it is, there's a scene where he plays on
Speaker 2: the piano man Eita to her in a restaurant and
Speaker 2: she's moved by it, and it's genuinely beautiful and moving
Speaker 2: and wonderful. What a wonderful film, I think, even though
Speaker 2: like the last half headed half hour, those are my
Speaker 2: two set pieces. Yeah, it's good. What is the film
Speaker 2: you weren't expecting to like that you loved?
Speaker 3: Easiest, easiest one for me to answer, Marcel the shell
Speaker 3: with the shoes on, even though I love Jenny Slay.
Speaker 3: I saw the poster for it and I just thought,
Speaker 3: you know what, that looks too tweet, even for me.
Speaker 3: And I've seen I've seen every Wes Anderson movie multiple times,
Speaker 3: and I was like that, it looks too fucking much too.
Speaker 3: And then my friend Dom, who I assumed would hate
Speaker 3: this movie, said, oh, I cried literally throughout that movie.
Speaker 3: And that was the thing where I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe I should give this a go. And I watched
Speaker 3: it and I simply wept throughout and I laughed, and
Speaker 3: I cried, and I'm so annoyed with myself that I
Speaker 3: didn't think this would that. I thought it looks a
Speaker 3: bit precious. Yeah, I thought it was brilliant. I really
Speaker 3: really strongly recommend people see myself, and I strongly recommend
Speaker 3: on the off chance.
Speaker 1: That you like me.
Speaker 3: Thought, yeah, I thought it might be too tweet for me.
Speaker 3: It's just tweet enough. Maybe it was. I thought it was.
Speaker 3: It's fantastic. Yeah, it's brilliantly done as well, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's brilliantly done.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My answer for too tweet for me that I thought
Speaker 2: I wouldn't was Asteroid City, the Wes Anderson film, because
Speaker 2: I had sort of interesting I'd sort of reached the
Speaker 2: end of the road with Wes Anderson. I'd kind of
Speaker 2: felt like i'd sort of had had enough maybe, And
Speaker 2: then I was on a plane again and I watched
Speaker 2: and I thought, I'll give Asteroid City ago only because
Speaker 2: I didn't you want to see it.
Speaker 1: I loved it. Yeah, I loved it so much.
Speaker 2: I found it really beautiful and funny and moving and sexy,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, not too to be for me.
Speaker 2: Loved it, loved the alien love it. Yeah, the Alien's Great.
Speaker 3: My grand theory about Was Anderson is that, like, because
Speaker 3: on paper, you would think if you like one of them,
Speaker 3: you like all of them. Really, but I think that
Speaker 3: everybody at some point runs out of patients, and no
Speaker 3: one has the same point at which they run out
Speaker 3: of patients, and in some ways it may actually not
Speaker 3: be a reflection of the film itself, the actual individual
Speaker 3: film that you'd run out of patients with. So I
Speaker 3: reached a kind of threshold after the Dodgel Limited. I
Speaker 3: was like, fuck this guy, man, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 3: I can't go around like this anymore. It's I just
Speaker 3: can't do it. And then I found myself at moon
Speaker 3: Rise Kingdom being like what am I doing? And then
Speaker 3: I was like, I love moon Rose Kingdom, I love
Speaker 3: what was Anderson. I'm back on board. And I think
Speaker 3: I thought that at Grand Budapest Hotel. After Grand Budapest Hotel,
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't think needs to make another film,
Speaker 3: Like I really I think that the Grand Buda pest
Speaker 3: I tell is like, is the perfect distillation of everything
Speaker 3: he's done. I think it's incredible. And then you sort
Speaker 3: of watch the French Dispatch and you go I'm enjoying myself.
Speaker 3: I really am enjoying myself. I Asteroid City. I feel
Speaker 3: that I'm in another cycle where I just was like,
Speaker 3: I'm not quite on board with this, but I'll be
Speaker 3: back for the next one. I think it's really hard
Speaker 3: to pin people down for what their most favorite and
Speaker 3: least favorite Wes Anderson film is. I think you can generally,
Speaker 3: I think everybody generally agrees that Rushmore, Royal ten, and Bounds.
Speaker 3: Rushmore is a good film, even if you don't like
Speaker 3: any of the other Wes Anderson films. Rushmore is one
Speaker 3: anyone could watch. Royal ten, the Best Friend. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think there's a consensus around ten and Balums, but then
Speaker 3: the rest of it is kind of.
Speaker 1: Up for grabs.
Speaker 3: Like I love Grand Budapest, I love the Life Aquatic,
Speaker 3: I absolutely love it. And I think people I think
Speaker 3: we'll all just I think I look at Where's Anderson
Speaker 3: the way the Joker looks at Batman at the end
Speaker 3: of the Dark Night, and I just say, I think
Speaker 3: you and I are destined to do this for a
Speaker 3: long time. We'll go around in circles. Well, sometimes sometimes
Speaker 3: I'll be absolutely on board. Other times I'll think what
Speaker 3: the fuck are you doing? And gives a shit about
Speaker 3: any of this. Sometimes you're going to live long enough
Speaker 3: to become the villain. Yeah yeah, But I just, you know,
Speaker 3: whenever I see what it do is, I've always like
Speaker 3: he's his own genre and we should probably be thankful
Speaker 3: that he is making these movies and they make money
Speaker 3: and he gets amazing people in them, And like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm a big Anderson fan.
Speaker 1: Do we what do you.
Speaker 2: Have a greatest Film? Because I know we're saved favorite,
Speaker 2: we're saving favorite? What was great?
Speaker 1: Well, Okay, now we're into the meat of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now now we're now we're into the acting categories
Speaker 3: of the Oscars. We've left we've left short film and
Speaker 3: sound editing and all that ship behind.
Speaker 1: Now we're in.
Speaker 3: Now we're into the awards that are people have heard
Speaker 3: of the people who are nominated for them. And I
Speaker 3: feel like the Oscars does itself a disservice by not
Speaker 3: announcing it, being like, Okay, you've sat through a lot
Speaker 3: of people you've never heard of before.
Speaker 1: Now, Emily Blood.
Speaker 3: I think that I am struggling to determine where I
Speaker 3: put three films across Greatest Film and Favorite Film and
Speaker 3: the three films are Past Lives, Killers of the Flower Moon,
Speaker 3: and Oppenheimer. I think I'm going to put Oppenheimer as
Speaker 3: the greatest, so is it not necessarily my favorite, but
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to put Oppenheimer's the greatest film.
Speaker 3: And the reason I'm putting Oppenheimer's the greatest film is
Speaker 3: it is a film that was designed to be seen
Speaker 3: by an enormous audience. It is not an abstract, difficult
Speaker 3: art house film. It is a film about a nuclear
Speaker 3: physicist that he tried to bring to as wide an
Speaker 3: audience as possible, and he did it by us tricks
Speaker 3: that he'd learned from making Batman films. The sequence where
Speaker 3: is he says to Oppenheimer, why you need to get
Speaker 3: out those ridiculous clothes, you're a scientist, and then Oppenheimer
Speaker 3: ditches his military uniform and goes back to his suit.
Speaker 3: That's like Batman putting on the batsuit. That is shot
Speaker 3: and executed in the exact same way as Batman putting
Speaker 3: on the batsuit for the first time, and the screenplay
Speaker 3: is very similarly structured to Batman begins, Yeah, you're right,
Speaker 3: he's pulled from all of his tricks. But I think
Speaker 3: the thing going into Oppenheimer, I was like, and you know,
Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of his I love the Prestige,
Speaker 3: I love the Batman films, I love Memento. I was
Speaker 3: wondering whether he would be able to get a kind
Speaker 3: of emotional core to it. And the two things that
Speaker 3: I can take away from having seen the film three
Speaker 3: times now are number One, it fucking rattles along. It
Speaker 3: properly rattles on. It's compelling, scenes throw to each other
Speaker 3: with a momentum that just means you kind of can't
Speaker 3: stop watching it. And considering it's a film about people
Speaker 3: talking about science, it is quite extraordinary how riveting it is.
Speaker 3: But also all of my potential misgivings were kind of
Speaker 3: answered by the movie. It does annoy me that people
Speaker 3: keep talking about it. It's like, Oh, it's just another
Speaker 3: movie about a great man who did a great thing,
Speaker 3: and you're like, I don't.
Speaker 1: Think you've watched the movie.
Speaker 3: It's a movie about a great man who is the
Speaker 3: smartest man in the world, but his legacy was dreadful,
Speaker 3: and the end of the film, it's not setting him
Speaker 3: up or venerating him, it's him realizing that he's unleashed
Speaker 3: this force on the whole world that could destroy the planet.
Speaker 3: And the way that Einstein says to him, you know,
Speaker 3: they'll give you an award at some point, and you
Speaker 3: see just this flash of him as an old man
Speaker 3: accepting an award in the White House is so potent
Speaker 3: because his legacy isn't the awards that he's won. His
Speaker 3: legacy is, you know, the death of thousands of thousands
Speaker 3: of people like he Yeah, his legacy is death. And
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that I come away from that movie
Speaker 3: is going, why the fuck didn't he stop building the
Speaker 3: bomb to Hitler falls? Because all through in the lead
Speaker 3: up to it, when you find yourself going, yeah, of
Speaker 3: course he would build a bomb, and the way that
Speaker 3: they the way that he explains that, and he says,
Speaker 3: you know, it's not you know, if Hitler builds a bomb,
Speaker 3: it's not your people who's going to drop them on first.
Speaker 3: You know, like that, you go, fuck, yeah, you know
Speaker 3: he's a Jewish scientist. This means something to him more
Speaker 3: than just the pursuit of science. But after Hitler falls,
Speaker 3: why does he not keep going with it? And does
Speaker 3: he not understand that the US government is using him
Speaker 3: because they're already thinking about the next war. The army
Speaker 3: and the government are already thinking about the war with Russia.
Speaker 3: Why does he go along with it? And I don't
Speaker 3: think Christopher Nolan has an satisfactory answer for that, so
Speaker 3: he doesn't try and force one in there. So you're
Speaker 3: left with this sense of like, did he just do
Speaker 3: it because as a scientist he wanted to complete the work,
Speaker 3: whether he was too intellectually curious. Yeah, that is such
Speaker 3: a like sort of moral gray era. And also, and again,
Speaker 3: if I may wear my pod save the UK hat
Speaker 3: for a moment, he is often he is a filmmaker
Speaker 3: who's off and described as being politically very conservative. That
Speaker 3: movie is fucking pro union. And the fact that, you know,
Speaker 3: one of the two biggest films in the world. In
Speaker 3: the premiere, the stars all walked out because it was
Speaker 3: the start of the strike in the film and television industries.
Speaker 3: And the antipathy towards the military industrial complex and the
Speaker 3: kind of political hounding of socialists and left wing people
Speaker 3: is extremely interesting. Like, I think it's incredibly interesting. And
Speaker 3: Killian Murphy's amazing. Emily Blunt in that final scene when
Speaker 3: she's being cross examined is so brilliant. Yeah, I just thought,
Speaker 3: we keep on saying we want intelligent films for a
Speaker 3: mass audience, and he fucking gave you one. And if
Speaker 3: you come away from it and you go, well it
Speaker 3: was a bit too long, then go fuck yourself. I
Speaker 3: hope you fucking drown in a sea of Aquaman sequels.
Speaker 1: I sort of think you've convinced me of and I
Speaker 1: was the most is the greatest with me.
Speaker 2: I think I think you're right. You've made a very
Speaker 2: very very good argument. You're right. Maybe that's it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was going to say, no, how I feelings. No,
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I mean, I think only
Speaker 2: because I think you've put that so well and it
Speaker 2: would be nice to have it at the other end
Speaker 2: of the scale. I think I would possibly say how
Speaker 2: to have sex because it is at the opposite ed
Speaker 2: of the scale, very small, the kind of mass empathy
Speaker 2: that it has, and the the subtlety of all of it,
Speaker 2: and the the non judgmental nature of how it plays out,
Speaker 2: and then it just feels so real and all the
Speaker 2: dy no, every part of it is like you understand, people,
Speaker 2: this is the power of cinema is putting us in
Speaker 2: these positions of great empathy and here are these sixteen
Speaker 2: year old girls and we feel completely part of it.
Speaker 2: And I just think it's and it's just sort of
Speaker 2: very loving the whole film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't speak well, I just want to quickly
Speaker 3: sneak in. If we're talking about films about radical empathy,
Speaker 3: a French movie called Saint Omayer by that Alistiop made,
Speaker 3: that is the most radical empathy I've ever seen, because
Speaker 3: that is a movie where the protagonist is finding empathy
Speaker 3: with a woman who murders her baby. And it's all
Speaker 3: about the trial of the woman who murders her baby,
Speaker 3: and it's based on a true story and it's something
Speaker 3: that really happened to Alistyop, where she became fixated on
Speaker 3: this woman that had murdered her child. And it's about
Speaker 3: a lot of things. It's about motherhood, it's about parenting,
Speaker 3: it's about being black in France, it's about generational trauma.
Speaker 3: But it's also its core about empathy and about how
Speaker 3: sometimes empathy can be troubling because sometimes when you see
Speaker 3: yourself reflected back in someone who's done something horrendous, it
Speaker 3: can almost warp your sense of self. But also at
Speaker 3: the same time, there is something that's always positive about
Speaker 3: trying to reach out and understand why something has done.
Speaker 3: You know, someone has done the thing that's against nature.
Speaker 3: You know, a parent murdering their child is against the
Speaker 3: natural order and the way that aspiece is designed to
Speaker 3: reproduce itself. But anyway, I just think that that is
Speaker 3: such a morally complex, murky and quite beautiful piece of work.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's just a sneaky extra shout for says sneaky.
Speaker 2: Is there anything before we get to favorite? Is there
Speaker 2: anything any other films.
Speaker 3: We haven't done things that you would cry cry the
Speaker 3: most about?
Speaker 1: Oh, because that's my favorite?
Speaker 3: What's the most the only other one we haven't wonte
Speaker 3: this film that would make you want to do something
Speaker 3: new with your life?
Speaker 2: Okay, what is the film that made you want to
Speaker 2: do something new with your life?
Speaker 3: Every time I see a documentary about great musician, it
Speaker 3: makes me wish I was a musician. Little Richard I
Speaker 3: am everything. Little Richard, I am everything. It's also just
Speaker 3: a brilliant documentary. Little Richard is like the person who
Speaker 3: invented rock and roll. He's also an imperfect hero in
Speaker 3: so many ways because it was his own relationship with
Speaker 3: his own bisexuality. It's a very, very superb documentary.
Speaker 2: Little Richard on what was in the playlist I have
Speaker 2: on my tool show. That's what plays perfect. People come
Speaker 2: in perfect perfect, but you are a musician. My answer
Speaker 2: is the deepest breath. Despite showing us that maybe the
Speaker 2: other side is a haunting head of place you never
Speaker 2: want to see, I do want to be a free
Speaker 2: diver now and I'm holding my breath.
Speaker 1: I'm about to two minutes. That's my new thing, free diving.
Speaker 2: What is the film that means the most too, because
Speaker 2: of the experience we had around seeing.
Speaker 3: It Anatomy before, because I went to see it because
Speaker 3: it was playing in the big screen nearest to me,
Speaker 3: and I was very excited about seeing it in the
Speaker 3: big screen. But I was absolutely knackered and I sat
Speaker 3: down and as the trailer started, I thought I've made
Speaker 3: a mistake, like I'm too tired to watch this movie.
Speaker 3: And I was literally falling asleep in my seat. And
Speaker 3: the film was so good that it woke me back up.
Speaker 3: It's the only time in my life there have been
Speaker 3: definitely times where I've been like, I'm too naked to
Speaker 3: see this film.
Speaker 1: I'm not getting what I should.
Speaker 3: Do out of it, shout out hostiles like Christian bell Western.
Speaker 3: With all due respect, I should not have seen that
Speaker 3: at midnight. I hold my hands up. That was a
Speaker 3: huge mistake. But this is the only time where I've
Speaker 3: gone in going I'm definitely not in the mood for this,
Speaker 3: and the film was so fucking good that in the
Speaker 3: end I was riveted, like on the edge of my seat.
Speaker 3: The argument sequence is incredible. Sandra Hiller is unbelievable. I
Speaker 3: did not think we would be sat here talking about
Speaker 3: a palm Door Winner where a key plot point hinges
Speaker 3: on a steel drum cover of Pimp by fifty cent.
Speaker 3: No one could ever have predicted that The defense Lawyer,
Speaker 3: the bald Defense Lawyer one of my favorite performances of
Speaker 3: the year. The way that he moves and the way
Speaker 3: that he like keeps wringing his hands is just incredible.
Speaker 3: French courts are fucking weird, and that's another thing that
Speaker 3: I've learned this year. And in conclusion, if somebody played
Speaker 3: a steel drum cover of pa MP, I would push
Speaker 3: them out of a window. So I'm team she did
Speaker 3: it and was right too.
Speaker 1: My answer would be I went with a friend. We went.
Speaker 2: We were supposed to see a preview of Zone of Interest,
Speaker 2: and we turned up there and we had put our
Speaker 2: name down for it, and when we got there, it
Speaker 2: was full and we were told we were sent away,
Speaker 2: and we were really mad, like we'd come all this
Speaker 2: where we were like fuck. And also to go and
Speaker 2: see a film like that you sort of have to
Speaker 2: be prepared for, like this is gonna be singing heavy,
Speaker 2: so we were all sort of prepared for this heavy
Speaker 2: film and we were turned away. And then we walked
Speaker 2: around the corner and in another room there was a
Speaker 2: sneak preview going on and there was some seats. We
Speaker 2: were like, we just fucking sneaking, so we snuck in.
Speaker 2: We didn't know what it was going to be, and
Speaker 2: it was Saltburn. So we've gone in thinking, oh god,
Speaker 2: we're going to watch this really heavy holocaust film. And
Speaker 2: then we watched fucking Saltburan, which was quite the opposite
Speaker 2: and was such a fucking great and we were like,
Speaker 2: well that was much more fun.
Speaker 1: Fuck me.
Speaker 3: That is that's a that's a shift. That's a shift
Speaker 3: in your evening. That is a real that's a turn
Speaker 3: in your evening. So we went in, went in very heavy,
Speaker 3: left very light the Saltband. What a roller coaster of
Speaker 3: a film, Love it, What a great fun wild ride.
Speaker 3: Not expecting that what a tree. You weren't expecting murder
Speaker 3: on the dances fig was not expecting And if you were,
Speaker 3: you'd be like Glazer. I think that might be too experimental.
Speaker 3: I think you might have finally pushed it over the edge.
Speaker 3: What about And we'll talk about that film next next year.
Speaker 2: For the rest you're wondering where that is, that is
Speaker 2: the next year film. Yeah, okay, what's the funamator cryd.
Speaker 3: Of My One Fine Morning, Mia Hanson love film. Leah
Speaker 3: Seid plays a woman whose husband has died. She lives
Speaker 3: alone looking after a daughter, and her dad has got
Speaker 3: something called Benson syndrome, which is a kind of degenerative
Speaker 3: neurological disorder. And Okay, even as I say that, I'm like,
Speaker 3: bear with me, and it's super fucking French. The way
Speaker 3: that the ease with which she starts to have an
Speaker 3: affair with a man who's like a friend of her
Speaker 3: ex husband is one of the most French things I've
Speaker 3: ever seen. But it and listen, in the interest of
Speaker 3: full disclosure, my grandmother is not very well with the
Speaker 3: degenerative neurological disorder. And I think that two of the
Speaker 3: films have made me cry the most this year are
Speaker 3: One Fine Morning and Marcel. Michelle and Marcel. There's a
Speaker 3: plot with the grandmother, and if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 3: it's almost hard for me to articulate. It's one of
Speaker 3: the most harrowing things you've ever seen. A movie is
Speaker 3: so harrowing. But the thing about One Fine Morning, you know,
Speaker 3: it's heartbreaking because you're watching her watch her father die,
Speaker 3: and like that as a process, I'm sort of experiencing it.
Speaker 3: I'm watching my mum go through it as well, and
Speaker 3: so that there's a lot of really heavy stuff in there,
Speaker 3: and you know, she's kind of in the street. She
Speaker 3: runs into one of his students and she just kind
Speaker 3: of breaks down just at the mention of him, and
Speaker 3: that the last scene is so heavy because he's they're
Speaker 3: all sort of singing, and she you know, at this point,
Speaker 3: he's in a home and they've been through all this
Speaker 3: process about whether they should put him in a home,
Speaker 3: what sort of home they should put him in, and
Speaker 3: she kind of breaks down at the end. And I
Speaker 3: was just absolutely in floods of tears. But part of
Speaker 3: the thing is that there is also a huge amount
Speaker 3: of love and hope in the film, because ultimately I
Speaker 3: thought that what this film was about was like, you know,
Speaker 3: we're all heading for death, and so the only thing
Speaker 3: to do in confronting that is to live your life.
Speaker 3: And I think she has kind of she has sort
Speaker 3: of accepted her lot at the start of the movie
Speaker 3: as someone who just raises her door her and looks
Speaker 3: after her dad, and then like this affair it makes
Speaker 3: her like remember that she's like a sexual person and
Speaker 3: she has desires. And she finds a book of his
Speaker 3: writing at the end, and one of the things that
Speaker 3: he says is, I'm just going to keep writing because
Speaker 3: it's the only thing I can do to kind of
Speaker 3: fight against the despair. And a lot of the film,
Speaker 3: for about quite heavy subject matter, is about fighting against despair.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: There's like older people who keep talking about that, like
Speaker 3: her mother who's like divorced from her father but still
Speaker 3: is very involved in his care is like constantly going
Speaker 3: on like climate protests and like getting in turned by
Speaker 3: the police, which he's going And I thought that as
Speaker 3: much as this movie made me cry because there's lots
Speaker 3: of heavy subject matter that is, you know, directly affecting
Speaker 3: my life in so many ways. Also, it made me
Speaker 3: cry because I found it quite uplifting and it's actually
Speaker 3: a film about Yeah, it is terrible, it is sad,
Speaker 3: and the only thing for it is to seize life
Speaker 3: and push back against the despair and protest and love
Speaker 3: people and you know, experience joy and make things and
Speaker 3: celebrate the life that you have rather than constantly anticipating
Speaker 3: its inevitable end. And I actually thought it made me counterintuitively,
Speaker 3: very very pleased to be alive. And so it made
Speaker 3: me kind of cry because I was sad. But it
Speaker 3: also at the end, they just sort of run up
Speaker 3: into these gardens in Paris and they're just all looking
Speaker 3: out on the morning, and that at the end I
Speaker 3: realized I was actually crying because it had made me
Speaker 3: feel quite optimistic and hopeful and energized about being alive.
Speaker 3: I loved this movie so much, so it's sort of
Speaker 3: like the opposite of your podcast. Yeah, it's the opposite
Speaker 3: of all of my work.
Speaker 1: This movie is the opposite of all of my work.
Speaker 3: Also, LEAs I do, she's the fucking best she's so good,
Speaker 3: and she's so good in this film, and it is
Speaker 3: like it's funny at points and it's sexy. And maybe
Speaker 3: I'm just like deluded, but I actually thought that I
Speaker 3: came away from it thinking that it was a film
Speaker 3: that is about seizing life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I loved it. I absolutely loved it, and it
Speaker 1: made me weep just throughout.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful answer before I get to my so which
Speaker 2: is my favorite? Just one little shout out for the
Speaker 2: film BlackBerry, BlackBerry. Remember, oh, remember twenty twenty three when
Speaker 2: there were lots of films about corporations where the hero
Speaker 2: of the story was like a product, and you thought
Speaker 2: this is weird.
Speaker 1: BlackBerry's fucking great. BlackBerry Hidden Jim, I'll.
Speaker 3: Tell you how good BlackBerry is. I watched it on
Speaker 3: a plane and my partner, the aforementioned amien Ere watched
Speaker 3: the whole thing because it was quite loud and I
Speaker 3: couldn't really hear properly. So I had the subtitles on,
Speaker 3: which I sometimes do on the plane just because I
Speaker 3: the headphones are not yeah, you know, I'm not amazing,
Speaker 3: So I put have my headphones on as I put
Speaker 3: the subtitles on as well, and BlackBerry is so good
Speaker 3: that she watched the whole film just on subtitles, not
Speaker 3: on her screen, on my screen.
Speaker 1: Great, that's the worst.
Speaker 3: Surely the worst way to watch a film is on
Speaker 3: a plane, but not even on your screen. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: I watched BlackBerry and Dumb Money Back to Bad Love
Speaker 3: really a little bit of very positive feelings about both
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Film credit posts and of a favorite film of the
Speaker 2: year is Past Lives. I love pers Slaves so fucking much.
Speaker 2: I think Perst Lives is a perfect film. Pers Lives,
Speaker 2: and it happens to me very occasionally. It happened with
Speaker 2: the Florida Project, happened with Panzelabrin. Past Lives of the
Speaker 2: film that I went to see and I immediately went
Speaker 2: to see again the next day, and I saw it
Speaker 2: three times in about a week because I was like,
Speaker 2: is this one of the best films made? And they
Speaker 2: went to check and I was like, yes, I think
Speaker 2: it is, and I think it does something. It's very
Speaker 2: sort of understated. The whole film is very classy. It's
Speaker 2: a really really classy film. It's sort of very sort
Speaker 2: of understated and simple, but the way I think it
Speaker 2: has sort of huge things to say, not just about love.
Speaker 2: If you haven't seen it. It's about two best friends
Speaker 2: who are like twelve, I think in Korea, and they
Speaker 2: get separated because she moves to Canada with her family.
Speaker 2: And then about ten years later they get in touch
Speaker 2: and they communicate by a skype, but you see they
Speaker 2: become very close as adults over skype. And then at
Speaker 2: some point she says they have to stop doing this
Speaker 2: because they're never actually going to see each other, are they,
Speaker 2: And she needs to embrace life rather than look forward
Speaker 2: to skypes with this guy. And so they separate again.
Speaker 2: And then the last main part of the film is
Speaker 2: I think another ten years later or five years later,
Speaker 2: and they he comes to visit her and is now married.
Speaker 2: And it's so it is a love story in that sense,
Speaker 2: but there's also a story of like immigration.
Speaker 1: And I also think one of the.
Speaker 2: Things that's really brilliant about it and very it's just
Speaker 2: like it's just is part of the film is the
Speaker 2: reality is about communication. Is the fact that the sequence
Speaker 2: where they're talking over skype, it's like the limits of
Speaker 2: technology and the kind of the that sound of beeB
Speaker 2: boop beep that skype and the fact that they do
Speaker 2: build this genuine relationship there and you fall you fall
Speaker 2: in love with all of them. And then when he
Speaker 2: finally gets to visit them in New York, the fact
Speaker 2: that he can't speak English at all really makes him
Speaker 2: a child. It suddenly from this this kind of erudite,
Speaker 2: eloquent conversations that you've been observing, suddenly, in front of
Speaker 2: her husband, he's essentially a child because he doesn't have
Speaker 2: any language. Neither of them do, and it reduces all
Speaker 2: this flex in, all this stuff. Too nice to meet
Speaker 2: you like, that's sort of all he can really do,
Speaker 2: and it makes him small and it makes him kind
Speaker 2: of weaker. And the husband. It's such a brilliant casting
Speaker 2: and acting and writing, and there is a scene in it.
Speaker 2: We've talked about it, but the way the film is
Speaker 2: set up, your team them, because they're who you've watched
Speaker 2: the original the best Friends. You kind of as a
Speaker 2: love triangle. You want it to be them, and then
Speaker 2: you meet her husband and you're predisposed to the other
Speaker 2: two you sort of. But then there is a scene
Speaker 2: which I think is all one take, where they lie
Speaker 2: in bed together, the husband and wife, and he starts
Speaker 2: talking about it and thinking about this guy, and it
Speaker 2: is such a fucking it makes you love the husband
Speaker 2: completely and by that point you're like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 2: get why you're with him. And there's a just brilliant
Speaker 2: bit of writing where he and he's starting to wonder
Speaker 2: if there is a problem with this guy, and he says,
Speaker 2: all I know is you make my life bigger. Worry
Speaker 2: I don't do the same for you, And she says,
Speaker 2: I'm just a girl from Korea and it's and it's
Speaker 2: so fucking beautiful and you It is this complicated story,
Speaker 2: and ultimately I think she's made the right decision. And
Speaker 2: what it's about, it's about love, is also it's about
Speaker 2: she's ambitious, she's bigger than her old friend from career.
Speaker 2: They are different, and he represents home, but she has
Speaker 2: left home and that's the reality of her and I
Speaker 2: don't think he is going to leave home, and that
Speaker 2: is why ultimately she's in the right place. But the
Speaker 2: fact that the husband sits just allows this to play
Speaker 2: out and kind of allows it almost just on faith,
Speaker 2: like if I do nothing, hopefully this will be okay.
Speaker 2: And it's a real kind of act of love from
Speaker 2: him because if it were me, particularly when she says
Speaker 2: I'm going to walk him to Azuba.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, no, you're fucking not. I'll walk into
Speaker 1: his fucking uber thank you very much.
Speaker 3: It's John mcgara, who is both in Big Short and
Speaker 3: Big Short is kind of a good name for him.
Speaker 3: But he like, yeah, there's a bit where he's playing
Speaker 3: like Xbox or something, which he comes back and you're like, dude,
Speaker 3: you got to get you don't know what your up
Speaker 3: against here, Dude, you got to get the game. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she's got a strong emotional bond with Korean Superman. You
Speaker 3: need to get your head in the game. And there's
Speaker 3: a bit in it where there's a bit where he says,
Speaker 3: just outwright, is he attractive? And she goes, yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: watching it between my fingers because I'm like, what the
Speaker 3: fuck is how the fuck is this.
Speaker 1: Going to play out?
Speaker 3: But that yeah, the yeah you make one my world
Speaker 3: so much bigger and I hope I do the same
Speaker 3: for you. Is like, that's that's the thing where you
Speaker 3: go and like he's like, because they're all creative people,
Speaker 3: like they meet in a kind of writer's retreat, and
Speaker 3: so the husband is constantly saying, you know it says
Speaker 3: it's this is a great story. You know, this is
Speaker 3: a great story the two people that you know, it's
Speaker 3: like it's sort of it's basically the plot of the
Speaker 3: song Disco two thousand by Pulp, but for immigrants, like
Speaker 3: it's sort of, yeah, it's that the lyrics of that are,
Speaker 3: let's all make up with the year two thousand, Won't
Speaker 3: it be strange when we're all fully grown? Like it's
Speaker 3: like it's like it has all that stuff in it.
Speaker 3: And they at the end the conversation where like you say,
Speaker 3: they're speaking Korean at the bar and he's sort of
Speaker 3: just sat there. But what they're talking about is how
Speaker 3: the film constantly references Indian, which is this like Korean
Speaker 3: idea of destiny and people being destined for each other.
Speaker 3: And he basically says, you, you and Arthur have that.
Speaker 3: And he says to her, the reason I liked you
Speaker 3: is because you are you and you are someone who leaves.
Speaker 3: But he says, but to Arthur, you were someone who stays,
Speaker 3: and like that whole thing, and when and she says,
Speaker 3: she says something like that. She talks about the girl
Speaker 3: that she was that he loved, and she said and
Speaker 3: she says twenty years ago, I left her behind with you,
Speaker 3: and like all of that stuff is like I mean
Speaker 3: this like especially if you're like a second generation ever.
Speaker 3: I mean she she the character and I are a
Speaker 3: pretty similar age at but she that you know, that is.
Speaker 1: My parents experience.
Speaker 3: You walk out that movie and you're like, I wonder
Speaker 3: if my mom or my dad left someone behind like
Speaker 3: in India, Like what what you know?
Speaker 1: What was that? What's that experience?
Speaker 3: No, I don't really know how to it's not it's
Speaker 3: it's like it's kind of a difficult subject approach, Like
Speaker 3: I don't even know how to start that conversation because
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah did you yeah, yeah yeah. But also
Speaker 3: you realize like they both left like a version of
Speaker 3: themselves in I mean my mom is like came to
Speaker 3: England from India via Kenya. So my mum like left
Speaker 3: two or three different versions of herself in two different places.
Speaker 3: And you know, and I do think they so times
Speaker 3: wonder what their life would have been like if they
Speaker 3: haven't left India and like and it is like there's
Speaker 3: that whole sort of layer. If your parents or you immigrated,
Speaker 3: you sort of go there's probably aver there's a version
Speaker 3: of me that never existed, that was born and brought
Speaker 3: up in India, and it's like all of that stuff
Speaker 3: going on, What was the bit that really sent you
Speaker 3: over there? Because, as we've discussed every time, Brett and
Speaker 3: I are like Mark Ruffalo's Hulk when he's asked, why
Speaker 3: are you angry?
Speaker 1: He says, the secret is I'm always angry.
Speaker 3: The secret is we're always crying, and all of the
Speaker 3: effort goes into us not crying.
Speaker 2: I think it's the it's the it's the final walk
Speaker 2: at the end. Yeah, but it's also it's such a
Speaker 2: good It's Selene's young debut film, right director mind fucking blunt.
Speaker 2: But the the the amount of times there's it's a
Speaker 2: real thing of sort of chemistry and kind of magic
Speaker 2: of like there's a few times in the film where
Speaker 2: it's just one and it's the two of them just
Speaker 2: looking at each other and they don't speak a lot,
Speaker 2: and it is absolutely romantic as fucking electrifying and beautiful
Speaker 2: and magic. And also the thing there's so much of
Speaker 2: it that's just so like the fact that they do
Speaker 2: touristy things and the husband's like, I have never done
Speaker 2: that because I live here, Like there's it's so much
Speaker 2: about that as well, just the places, and yeah, she
Speaker 2: moves twice in the film, and she's bigger, she's bigger
Speaker 2: than she's bigger than him, and the year's time.
Speaker 1: Oh god, what a killers.
Speaker 3: I was obviously I was just crying the whole time,
Speaker 3: but like I was like, I haven't really it's sort
Speaker 3: of I've just been running a low base level. But
Speaker 3: then at the end when they say goodbye the car,
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I'm fine, and then she goes
Speaker 3: back to her husband and then she and she's actually
Speaker 3: contained herself quite a lot. I mean, I think gret
Speaker 3: Lee like she should have won everything. And also like
Speaker 3: what like it's just a weird thing about being in
Speaker 3: comedy because I've seen her in like sitcoms and stuff.
Speaker 3: He's sort of you really like root for comedy, Like
Speaker 3: I've never met her, but you sort of weirdly root
Speaker 3: for comedy people because she was in like New Girl
Speaker 3: and the Feyan Polar Sisters movie like this, you're sort
Speaker 3: of like, yeah, go comedy person, but she should have
Speaker 3: won everything. She is incredible, incredible in that movie. But
Speaker 3: when she melted down, I suddenly was like, oh no, yeah,
Speaker 3: oh God, like pop God spill. But it's because you
Speaker 3: realize she's going she suddenly mourned the whole life that
Speaker 3: she didn't even realize that she'd missed.
Speaker 1: And she's been so she's so cool.
Speaker 2: She's such a cool person, and she's so like even that,
Speaker 2: but you said like her just saying yeah, he's good looking.
Speaker 1: It's like she's just very cool.
Speaker 2: And else aware and and she is kind of looking
Speaker 2: after him when he comes because he is more inno city. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a real innocence about him, and she sees that
Speaker 2: and she kind of has outgrown him. Oh god, what
Speaker 2: an hour and a half.
Speaker 1: And what a film. What a film. That's my favorite
Speaker 1: film of the year. What is yours?
Speaker 3: Well, my favorite film of the year is Past Lives,
Speaker 3: But it's a dead heat between Past Lives and the
Speaker 3: film that when Brett saw it, he sent me two
Speaker 3: text messages. The first one said, of course you liked it.
Speaker 3: That film is basically Honkys Be Terrible. I will now
Speaker 3: be doing a character called Honkys Be Terrible. He sort
Speaker 3: of sings to the tune of Johnny B.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 3: The litany of crimes committed by white people around the
Speaker 3: world it's Killers of the Flower Moon. I went to
Speaker 3: see this at the Imax. They did a limited run
Speaker 3: of screenings at the Imax, so it's obviously it's not
Speaker 3: shot for Imax, but it's it's just it's still fucking massive,
Speaker 3: you know. It's like when they say doesn't fill the Armax,
Speaker 3: me like, yeah, it's still bigger than any cinema.
Speaker 1: I went, I saw it with you, No I saw it,
Speaker 1: No we even I saw.
Speaker 3: I saw these two films with my friend Vinne, and
Speaker 3: like we we book ahead. It's very like deliberate planned thing.
Speaker 3: And I went there and there is a moment in
Speaker 3: that film where de Niro and Scorsese are discussing some
Speaker 3: part of this plot that's unfolding, you know, and they're
Speaker 3: you know, they're they're white Americans who are furious that
Speaker 3: the Osage tribe, which was given this kind of derisory
Speaker 3: bit of land, have now become you know, I think,
Speaker 3: per capita, the richest people in the world because the
Speaker 3: land had loads of oil underneath it, and so they've
Speaker 3: brought in this kind of custodian, this like guardianship scheme
Speaker 3: where they all have to have like a white protector
Speaker 3: and slowly, they just start being murdered, and it's all
Speaker 3: part of this plot, you know, to essentially murder all
Speaker 3: of these people. And I think the character Leonardo dca
Speaker 3: plays died two years before Lily Gladstone was born, so
Speaker 3: it's this is not ancient history, this is twentieth century America.
Speaker 3: And there is a moment in it where De Niro
Speaker 3: and DiCaprio are planning something, they're talking about something, you know,
Speaker 3: and they're in a cinema, and there's so many scenes
Speaker 3: in Martin Scorsese films where people are in a cinema
Speaker 3: like you know, and are watching like Main Street's Cape Fear.
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's a trope of his movies, and
Speaker 3: the film they're watching is a Western, And in that moment,
Speaker 3: I thought, holy fucking shit, this guy. These people are
Speaker 3: committing a genocide, as the genocide that they're committing is
Speaker 3: being repackaged as a heroic narrative of conquest over savages
Speaker 3: for the entertainment of the people still committing the genocide,
Speaker 3: and that single moment it blew my mind. I thought
Speaker 3: the film was incredible. I thought it was so propulsed.
Speaker 3: If the performances are all incredible. As we said when
Speaker 3: The Irishman came out, It's just nice that every couple
Speaker 3: of years between, like Uber eats adverts, Robert de Niro goes,
Speaker 3: I just say, you know, I'm still better than everyone.
Speaker 3: I'm still better than everyone, Like I'm still the best
Speaker 3: at this. I choose to do these to do Rocky
Speaker 3: and Bullwinkle, but if I wanted to, I would do
Speaker 3: it and still be better than all of you. I
Speaker 3: thought DiCaprio was brilliant, you know, Lily, like Lily Gladston
Speaker 3: is the kind of beating heart of that movie, like
Speaker 3: the whole thing hinges on her performance. And also Robbie
Speaker 3: Robertson died this year, and like what a like final
Speaker 3: piece of work for someone who like loves the band
Speaker 3: and loves the work that he did with Bob Dylan,
Speaker 3: like and loves all of his scores, Like the score
Speaker 3: for The Irishman is so fucking brilliant, and this score
Speaker 3: is like a last piece of work. Is like what
Speaker 3: an incredible epitaph for his career in music, But all
Speaker 3: the performances were extraordinary, and this is this is like
Speaker 3: this like Scorsese making a film about a what America
Speaker 3: is and making a film about the original sin of America.
Speaker 3: You cannot understand that country unless you understand that it
Speaker 3: begins with the massacre of the indigenous people and the
Speaker 3: fact that it was. And we always talk about how
Speaker 3: like we, you know, people of color, always talk about
Speaker 3: how like we want white people to understand whiteness. This
Speaker 3: is a film that fucking understands whiteness. And I understand
Speaker 3: when people go, we need to see more from the
Speaker 3: osage perspective, and Scorsese has said, you know, quite openly,
Speaker 3: that's not our story to tell. Our story as a
Speaker 3: white American is the story of the villains. And it
Speaker 3: is a movie about the bad guys of this story.
Speaker 3: And it's about what whiteness is as a social construct,
Speaker 3: and it's a poison. That means that a husband would
Speaker 3: slowly try and murder his wife because of love is
Speaker 3: who he loves, who he loves, and it's is way
Speaker 3: more complicated than just he's trying to get rid of her.
Speaker 3: He does love her, but he's like loyalty to what
Speaker 3: his whiteness trumps everything thing. And it is one of
Speaker 3: the great films about America. And it's confronting and it's
Speaker 3: engaging with its history, and it's unflinching in its depiction
Speaker 3: of the kind of horrors of the massacre of the
Speaker 3: indigenous people. And like, when I've walked out, my fucking
Speaker 3: head was spinning because also it's just Martin Scorsese film,
Speaker 3: So he doesn't you know, he doesn't make boring films.
Speaker 3: He makes thrilling movies. And he also, like he makes
Speaker 3: long films feel short. That it's three and a half
Speaker 3: hours and I could have watched another two hours. And
Speaker 3: the fact that DiCaprio was going to play the FBI
Speaker 3: agent and they suddenly were like, no, that's wrong, because
Speaker 3: that puts the FBI as the heroes of this and
Speaker 3: there are no heroes here. There are just monsters and
Speaker 3: they're victims, you know. And just when you think the
Speaker 3: film can't get any better, Jesse Plemons appears. There's no
Speaker 3: film that wouldn't be improved by Jesse Clemmons popping up through.
Speaker 3: I just think that Scorsese is, you know, he's the
Speaker 3: fucking best, and like, we're so lucky that he is
Speaker 3: continuing to push himself further and further, and he's never
Speaker 3: made a movie like this, And it's a hugely political
Speaker 3: film in its own way. And also I just think
Speaker 3: he's getting angrier as he gets older, Like there's no
Speaker 3: mellowing out like you talk about like the message of
Speaker 3: One Fine Morning being like you have to see. It's
Speaker 3: like he's fucking seizing life and he's making like you know,
Speaker 3: he's gonna make a fucking movie about Jesus.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 3: Great, I can't wait. I can't wait. We have no
Speaker 3: right to demand any more from him than he has
Speaker 3: given us, but anything he is willing to still give
Speaker 3: us we should be grateful for profoundly. And this is
Speaker 3: why Past Lives and Killers of the Flower Moon are
Speaker 3: why we fucking fell in love with movies when we
Speaker 3: were kids, and it's why we still keep being in
Speaker 3: love with films and why we'll never stop being in
Speaker 3: love with films.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree on all of that. It is amazing
Speaker 2: because he's he's very old, and the fact that he
Speaker 2: is he is it has the energy to do it,
Speaker 2: and that he is thinking in such complicated, deep stuff.
Speaker 2: It's very really impressive. I also like there's a bit
Speaker 2: in it where I'm like, that's very Scorsese moment where
Speaker 2: because it did a very grim film, but there are
Speaker 2: brief moments of like humor in it, and where he
Speaker 2: often finds humor in it's like people being hypocrites. There's
Speaker 2: a bit and Taxi Driver that I always thinks funny
Speaker 2: where he's buying guns from a man and the man
Speaker 2: lays out a load of guns and then the guy
Speaker 2: offers him drugs and he acts as if to say,
Speaker 2: what sort of person do you think I am?
Speaker 1: How dare you?
Speaker 2: And there's a bit in Killers Flaming where Leonard DiCaprio
Speaker 2: says I don't like you to the other guy, who's
Speaker 2: also an absolute fucking scumback, and he's sort of like, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Sort of discuss me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's a bit of it where the guy's basically like,
Speaker 3: well what if I just kidnap the children? And then
Speaker 3: the guy he's talking to like, well, you obviously know
Speaker 3: now that I think you're gonna do. Like it's like,
Speaker 3: there's lots there's lots of like weird like it's there's
Speaker 3: lots of like quite weird and bleak like comedy in it,
Speaker 3: and also just like as usual, there's so many like
Speaker 3: arresting images, the fields burning and the way it's shot
Speaker 3: through the kind of smoke that makes it look like
Speaker 3: a Vangoff painting. Is like, you're like, you know, add
Speaker 3: that to the montage of unforgettable scores, iicy images.
Speaker 1: What's your top ten? Come on?
Speaker 3: All right? The top ten was? The top ten was?
Speaker 3: The top ten is tricky. It's impossible, is actually impossible.
Speaker 3: I'm not even sure I agree with what I've done here,
Speaker 3: but you go for it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One film we haven't mentioned, just to quick shout out,
Speaker 2: is the film Scrapper.
Speaker 1: I really like Scrapper was really funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in its way, Scrapper is a hugely like
Speaker 2: bold film because Scrapper plays like a British sort of
Speaker 2: what appears to be a depressing film set on an
Speaker 2: estate and feels wildly what's the word revolutionary or something,
Speaker 2: because it's really fun and has a happy ending. And
Speaker 2: I watched that whole film expecting it not to have
Speaker 2: a happy ending because of all films like that, And
Speaker 2: in the end you're like, oh wow, yeah it was
Speaker 2: fun and everyone's okay.
Speaker 1: This is great. I loved it, all right.
Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about this because I'm
Speaker 2: looking at my ten and it doesn't have no hard
Speaker 2: feelings in and given how much I.
Speaker 1: Talked about that, surely that we didn't mention that.
Speaker 3: Oh God, mine doesn't that anyway, Mine doesn't have one
Speaker 3: fine morning in it. So that's got to change. Oh God,
Speaker 3: we've got to start this again.
Speaker 1: My mad doesn't have my three good in and that's brilliant. Christ.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's mine. I think already angry about it. My
Speaker 2: stroke Reality, Killers of the Flower Boon, May December, one
Speaker 2: thousand and one, Oppenheimer Brother How to Have Sex, Tar
Speaker 2: Past Lives.
Speaker 1: Very very good.
Speaker 3: Okay, so mine is Passages the Fableman's May December Reality
Speaker 3: Rye Lane, Anatomy of Befall One Fine Morning, Oppenheimer Past Lives,
Speaker 3: Killers of the Flower Moon. Okay, you can have it this, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it would. It should have been drawn Killers of the
Speaker 3: Flower Moon. Like listen, I'm none of us happy about this.
Speaker 1: This.
Speaker 2: We've done about three hours here. This is one of
Speaker 2: my shortest ones yet. And bang on time before I
Speaker 2: send you to having one film for you to take
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Three, I gotta go Flower Moon. But it's it's such
Speaker 3: as all such. Yeah, this is the thing. I think
Speaker 3: people will take past lives, so I'll take I'll take
Speaker 3: explained I.
Speaker 2: Stuck you in a coffee and send you sorry. The
Speaker 2: boom explained bits of you everywhere. I was like, oh
Speaker 2: fucking I'm with a coffee. You know what I'm like?
Speaker 2: Stuff you all in, I say, I say to your corpse,
Speaker 2: I'm about to send you to the episode with a
Speaker 2: DVD from TWE twenty three. Remember other people that are
Speaker 2: in heaven trying to have a nice time for film
Speaker 2: to show the people in heaven.
Speaker 3: The people in heaven mustn't know what happened on earth.
Speaker 3: The Killers of the Flower move off, you go we
Speaker 3: I've just realized we didn't do the film be most
Speaker 3: related to Christ?
Speaker 1: What's your answer? My answer?
Speaker 3: The only reason I remembered it is I got berated
Speaker 3: my friend for even suggesting this. The film I'm most
Speaker 3: related to was The Killer, the David Fincher movie, because
Speaker 3: the first fifteen minutes of that is so accurate as
Speaker 3: a representation of what it's like to be a stand
Speaker 3: up comedian.
Speaker 1: It's really on your life.
Speaker 3: It's true, on your own in a strange city, just
Speaker 3: waiting killing time until the evening. When you do your
Speaker 3: work for a very short space of time, you've got
Speaker 3: to get your heart rate down just enough that you
Speaker 3: can do the job that you're there to do.
Speaker 1: It's true.
Speaker 3: I was like, that is so he just wanders around,
Speaker 3: He has a McDonald's, sits on a bench for a bit.
Speaker 3: He's also like he's really obsessed with music, which I
Speaker 3: think stand up because you have dead time in the day.
Speaker 3: It allows you to indulge in obsessions that you can
Speaker 3: do in a mobile way, like say, for example, music
Speaker 3: or a game for the sake of argument the cinema.
Speaker 3: It really reminded me of big a stand up And
Speaker 3: when I told a friend of mine, when I told
Speaker 3: Daniel Kitson, who is also a standup comedian, that he said,
Speaker 3: are you fucking kidding me? First of all, he doesn't
Speaker 3: just wanderinglessly with a purpose. And also when he orders
Speaker 3: the McDonald's, he doesn't eat the bread. So how in
Speaker 3: any way is he like you? He's also very bad
Speaker 3: at his job, the killer. The killer is really bad
Speaker 3: at his job. It's really bad at his job. All right, nice,
Speaker 3: I think we've done it. We did hours and hours.
Speaker 3: We've done it. As ever, I love you. All of
Speaker 3: our sympathies are with buddy peace.
Speaker 4: I love you very much. Buddy peace, I'm going to
Speaker 4: stop this recording. Oh hey, is there anything we should
Speaker 4: look out for in the coming year for you this?
Speaker 3: I am on tour in the UK and Dublin. The
Speaker 3: tickets are available at Nishkamar dot co dot UK. I
Speaker 3: said I was on tour in the UK and Island
Speaker 3: and people who live in Ireland rightly were like doing
Speaker 3: one day in Dublin is not an Irish tour. So
Speaker 3: UK and Dublin Nishkamar dot co dot UK and my
Speaker 3: stand up special Your Power Your Control is available to
Speaker 3: buy and also you could listen to the album on
Speaker 3: Spotify or Apple Music and you can get it from
Speaker 3: iTunes at Amazon Prime. If you live in the UK
Speaker 3: and have Sky, you can watch it on Sky or
Speaker 3: now Tv, but otherwise you can buy it from wherever
Speaker 3: you get your video, or just listen to it on
Speaker 3: Spotify or Apple Music.
Speaker 2: Hello you very much, Nisch, Happy New Year, Happy New
Speaker 2: Year to you.
Speaker 1: Happy day.
Speaker 2: So that was episode three hundred and three. Head over
Speaker 2: to the Patreon at Patreon dot com, Forward slash Break
Speaker 2: Goldstein for the extra secret chat and videos with mister
Speaker 2: nish Kumar goes Apple Podcasts. Give us a five star rating,
Speaker 2: but right about the film. It means the most to
Speaker 2: you and why it's a lovely thing to read, helps numbers, etc.
Speaker 2: My neighbor Morien loves it always cries at it. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much to everyone for listening. I hope you're
Speaker 2: all well. Thank you to Nisch for doing this with me.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Scruby's PIP and the Distruction pieces of Network.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to iHeartMedia
Speaker 2: and Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network for hosting it.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and Lisa Laden
Speaker 2: for the photography. Come and join me next week for
Speaker 2: an excellent episode with a very special, brilliant guest. That
Speaker 2: is it for now. I hope you're all well, but
Speaker 2: in the meantime, have a lovely week, and please be
Speaker 2: excellent to each others.
Speaker 7: Back back back backs and sacks and back by backs,
Speaker 7: us back back back bas backs and back by back
Speaker 7: back back back