Speaker 1: From the heart of where Innovation, money and power COLLI
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Emily Jay I'm Emily Check in San Francisco, and this
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Elon
Speaker 1: Musk tells Bloomberg there are still unresolved matters when it
Speaker 1: comes to his bid for Twitter, and that he believes
Speaker 1: a recession is likely. We'll bring you our conversation with
Speaker 1: the Tesla CEO from the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha,
Speaker 1: plus the first for Apple workers at a retail store
Speaker 1: in Maryland vote to unionize. We'll talk to the former
Speaker 1: chair of the National Labor Relations Board about whether the
Speaker 1: iPhone maker should brace for a wave of union votes
Speaker 1: at stores around the world, and monetizing meta how the
Speaker 1: company is shifting priorities and its algorithms in an effort
Speaker 1: to chase TikTok. We will get to all of that
Speaker 1: in a moment, but first, U stocks rebounding after last
Speaker 1: week's route eraised nearly two trillion dollars from the SMP
Speaker 1: five hundred blueis Katie Gray felt here to walk us
Speaker 1: through the day and how tech played in it. Katie
Speaker 1: take it away. Well, Emily, was a big broad rally today.
Speaker 1: You had both the SMP five hundred and the NAZAC
Speaker 1: one hundred fishing two and a half percent higher. That
Speaker 1: was even though you did seal yields continue to climb.
Speaker 1: If you look at the tenure treasure yield fishing about
Speaker 1: five basis points higher today, but still volatility taking a breather.
Speaker 1: You're looking at the vix. They're breaking below thirty at
Speaker 1: one point, finishing a little bit above thirty, but still
Speaker 1: seeing some of the volatility exit the market. As we
Speaker 1: saw stocks rebound today and within that rally, two stocks
Speaker 1: caught my eye Tesla and Twitter. Of course, like you said,
Speaker 1: we heard from Elon Musk in conversation with Bloomberg News
Speaker 1: editor in chief John Michael Swaite. This was an interesting
Speaker 1: so on the Twitter front, you heard Musk, like you said, Emily,
Speaker 1: say that there's still a few unresolved matters with the
Speaker 1: Twitter deal, leaving a few question marks. There still Twitter
Speaker 1: shares finishing three percent higher. Tesla even more so, even
Speaker 1: though we heard must say that layoffs have started at Tesla,
Speaker 1: that the company plans to layoff ten percent of its
Speaker 1: salaried workforce. Over the next three months. Still you saw
Speaker 1: a big rally in Tesla shares, finishing over nine percent higher.
Speaker 1: But if you zoom out away from just today's rally,
Speaker 1: what's interesting is that we know that tech has had
Speaker 1: a really tough time this year. If you look at
Speaker 1: the SMP five hundreds top ten largest tech companies, they're
Speaker 1: down about thirty percent so far this year. But cracks
Speaker 1: are starting to show up outside of tech too, And
Speaker 1: you're looking at the top ten largest non tech companies
Speaker 1: in the SMP five hundred, that's the white line you
Speaker 1: can see now down over two percent, Emily. So we'll
Speaker 1: see if this rally that we saw at least today
Speaker 1: can sustain itself as other areas of the market begin
Speaker 1: to come under a little bit of pressure. Here all right, Katie,
Speaker 1: thanks for that. I want to take a look at
Speaker 1: the crypto markets now and this weekend's bitcoin drama downs
Speaker 1: and some up spoilstering hope for some relief from the
Speaker 1: crypto winter. Bloomberg Shnale Boss here to break it all
Speaker 1: down socanally. Is it gonna keep up? Well, it's already
Speaker 1: starting to slow down. We are still seeing a lift
Speaker 1: in bitcoin, Emily, but remember Sunday brought you a more
Speaker 1: than fifteen percent lift in bitcoin prices. Now you're looking
Speaker 1: at about a two percent rise in the last twenty
Speaker 1: four hours. Earlier today it was about five percent. So
Speaker 1: that shows you that that the steam is starting to
Speaker 1: slow down a little bit. But you are still seeing
Speaker 1: still a rise. So yes, Bitcoin higher, hovering above a
Speaker 1: twenty thousand. Let's take a look also here at ethereum,
Speaker 1: because like bitcoin got a massive rise on Sunday, even
Speaker 1: bigger jump than Bitcoin, but you are seeing that rise
Speaker 1: start to slow down significantly now only up about two
Speaker 1: tenths of one percent. Still, you do see ethereum giving
Speaker 1: some life back to the n f T market as well.
Speaker 1: You're seeing an n f T indecks rise once again.
Speaker 1: And look at these volumes up quite a bit when
Speaker 1: you look at the largest market places, look at open Sea,
Speaker 1: it's actually up much more than that right now in
Speaker 1: terms of volumes. Looks rare volumes are also higher in
Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours. And interesting magic even yes,
Speaker 1: the volumes are down over the most recent period, but today,
Speaker 1: just today they announced a funding round that had their
Speaker 1: valuation announced as surging tenfolds, and so you are seeing
Speaker 1: the n f T market come to life, just as
Speaker 1: people gather at NYC n f T. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of excitement around what the future brings. Despite the SCRIPTO
Speaker 1: Winter Shinali, thanks for that. We've got the co founder
Speaker 1: of Magic Eating coming up with us later in the show.
Speaker 1: You'll be back for that meantime. Elon Musk commented on
Speaker 1: everything from Twitter to the markets to Tesla in a
Speaker 1: wide ranging interview with Bloomberg's editor in chief John michel
Speaker 1: Sweet at the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha. But anyone
Speaker 1: hoping to hear him commit to his deal to buy
Speaker 1: Twitter would be disappointed. Take a listen of what do
Speaker 1: you had to say about that and more? There are still,
Speaker 1: um a few unresolved matters. You've You've probably read about
Speaker 1: the question as to whether the number of fake and
Speaker 1: spam users on the system is less than five percent
Speaker 1: as Twitter claims, which I think is probably not most
Speaker 1: people's experience on we're using Twitter. UM So we're still
Speaker 1: awaiting resolution on that matter. UM. And that that is
Speaker 1: a very significant matter. UM So we're awaiting resolution on that. Um.
Speaker 1: And then of course there is the question of will
Speaker 1: the dead portion of the round come together, and then
Speaker 1: will the share holders vote in favor? So I think
Speaker 1: those are the three things that um standard. Uh, you
Speaker 1: know if that needs to be resolved before the transaction
Speaker 1: can complete. What about the general state of the economy?
Speaker 1: Does that weigh on you when you think about this?
Speaker 1: I mean, just described it. You have a super bad
Speaker 1: feeling about the economy. Are you still in that position?
Speaker 1: I just said to you earlier Joe Biden has just
Speaker 1: come out and said that a recession in America is
Speaker 1: not inevitable. How do you feel about the economy? Well,
Speaker 1: I think a recession is inevitable at some point. As
Speaker 1: to whether there is a reception in the near term,
Speaker 1: I think that is more likely than not. Certainly isn't.
Speaker 1: It's not a certainty, but it appears more likelier than that.
Speaker 1: Can you set the record straight on one thing, which
Speaker 1: is this issue about the layoffs? I think you said
Speaker 1: initially that Tesla ten percent of the workforce would be cut,
Speaker 1: then ten percent of salary would be cut, then salaried
Speaker 1: would stay fl flat and overall headcamp would go up.
Speaker 1: What what what is the number? I know there's already
Speaker 1: I think being a lawsuit about the ten percent? Is
Speaker 1: ten percent. The goal to reduce the workforce or what
Speaker 1: is the number that we should think about all that
Speaker 1: you're planning. Yes, so it TESLA is reducing the salary
Speaker 1: workforce are roughly ten percent over the next probably three
Speaker 1: months or so. UM. The UH we expect to grow
Speaker 1: out our hourly workforce. Act quite clear that we expected
Speaker 1: to grow our own hourly workforce, but we uh, we
Speaker 1: grew very fast on the on the salary side, UM,
Speaker 1: and we grew a little too fast in some areas,
Speaker 1: and so it requires reduction in the salary workforce. And
Speaker 1: we're about two thirds hourly and one third salary. So
Speaker 1: I guess technically attempts at reduction in the salary workforce
Speaker 1: is only probably a three three and a half a
Speaker 1: cent reduction in total headcount. TESLA CEO Elon Musk. They're
Speaker 1: speaking with Bloomberg editor in chief John Michael Weight from
Speaker 1: the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha. I want to break
Speaker 1: some of that down with our own at Ludlow. Let's
Speaker 1: start on Tesla since that's where they ended. What's the
Speaker 1: significance of what we learned right there? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that the main takeaway and what he goes on to
Speaker 1: say is that demand is really strong, that they have
Speaker 1: a really long wait list for their vehicles, and he
Speaker 1: talked about how they need to build more factories quicker.
Speaker 1: And the point he was making that piece of tape
Speaker 1: is that they are reducing ten percent of salary staff.
Speaker 1: The salary staff is only a third of the workforce,
Speaker 1: so it kind of nets out at a three to
Speaker 1: three and a half percent reduction of headcount globally and
Speaker 1: tests a kind of ballooned right over the last few years,
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand employees. They're kind of trimming back in
Speaker 1: some areas, according to Mask and the focusing on priority,
Speaker 1: which is people that actually build stuff, the cars, the
Speaker 1: battery packs around the world. Talking about other people that
Speaker 1: are building stuff. The employees at Twitter probably didn't get
Speaker 1: an answer one way or another whether or not he's
Speaker 1: going to go through with the deal. You know, it
Speaker 1: was it was like recent appearances by Ask. He did
Speaker 1: not explicitly state that he is committed to the deal
Speaker 1: as its outlined twenty cents to share. You know, he
Speaker 1: kind of went through the motions and he gave this
Speaker 1: caveat that he was trying to do deposition minimization. He
Speaker 1: didn't want to get into legal trouble because it's appending deal,
Speaker 1: but still problems with bots. Still need to shareholder vote
Speaker 1: to make this happen. We keep forgetting that. And the
Speaker 1: debt real quick reference of debt thirteen billion dollars a
Speaker 1: debt committed by banks, and he seemed to suggest that
Speaker 1: that too is not solid. I wonder how much it
Speaker 1: doesn't help that he thinks a recession is likely at
Speaker 1: some point and Twitter, along with the rest of the markets,
Speaker 1: has taken a turn. Yeah, continuation of his thoughts right.
Speaker 1: He said previously as a super bad feeling about the economy,
Speaker 1: referencing internal memo, and he said that, you know, a
Speaker 1: recession is kind of going to happen at some point.
Speaker 1: The economy is cyclical. That makes sense. But is it
Speaker 1: going to happen in the near term? He said, more
Speaker 1: likely than not. Twitter's market cap twenty nine billion dollars. Yes.
Speaker 1: At the end of this trading session, he did talk
Speaker 1: about DOJ and we had some interesting commentary there along
Speaker 1: with his support for cryptocurrencies. So those coins really interesting.
Speaker 1: He clarified, first of all, he's not suggesting that people
Speaker 1: go out and invest in cryptocurrencies. That was part of
Speaker 1: the question that was put to him, he said, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that. He said that he went across the
Speaker 1: factory floors a Tesla SpaceX and he has workers, you know, engineers,
Speaker 1: all kinds of people in the workforce saying to him,
Speaker 1: we're invested in doge coin. Can you support it? And
Speaker 1: he says that's his rationale for supporting it, And of
Speaker 1: course he's bought dogecoin himself. You can buy test the
Speaker 1: merchandise and not vehicles, but merchandise using doged coin. So
Speaker 1: he seems to be suggesting that his support is because
Speaker 1: he has a wide network of employees that also support
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency UM and he kind of made the bitcoin side
Speaker 1: of things with TESSAs Holdings being a very small, inconsequential
Speaker 1: part of the balance sheet. Interesting, a little bit more
Speaker 1: meat on the bones there at Bludlow. Thank you for
Speaker 1: your analysis. That's the sound of Apple workers in Tosa
Speaker 1: in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore, which just became the
Speaker 1: first Apple retail store in the country to unionize. Store
Speaker 1: employees voted overwhelming Lady unionized to thirty three, and this
Speaker 1: is likely just the beginning, as more stores are expected
Speaker 1: to organize around the world. In recent months, we've seen
Speaker 1: more and more workers at tech companies unionized, But with
Speaker 1: the tightening labor market and the economy turning down, how
Speaker 1: much influence can they have for more? I'm joined by
Speaker 1: William Gould the fourth. He is the former chairman of
Speaker 1: the National Labor Relations Board, a scholar on labor law
Speaker 1: at Stanford Law School, and author of the book for
Speaker 1: Labor To Build Upon Wars, Depression and Pandemic. William, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. So look, the vote
Speaker 1: wasn't even close. What does that tell you about the
Speaker 1: chances that this is going to happen at many more
Speaker 1: Apple stores? Well, I think it's likely that it will
Speaker 1: happen at many more stores. We don't know really how many,
Speaker 1: uh it's likely to be, but clearly something is happening.
Speaker 1: We've been talking for a long time about the unrelenting
Speaker 1: decline of organized labor and the absence of organized labor
Speaker 1: from tech altogether. That's beginning to change a bit. How
Speaker 1: much we don't know. I think there are a number
Speaker 1: of factors and issues which have made this possible. But
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about the fact that something is happening,
Speaker 1: and it's quite feasible possible that it will happen elsewhere
Speaker 1: there and another companies. Apple has said in a statement
Speaker 1: about the possibility of this happening in the past, We're
Speaker 1: fortunate to have incredible retail team members, and we deeply
Speaker 1: value everything they bring to Apple. We're pleased to offer
Speaker 1: very strong compensation and benefits for full time and part
Speaker 1: time employees, including healthcare, tuition reimbursement, new parental leave, paid
Speaker 1: family leave, annual stock grants, and many other benefits. You know,
Speaker 1: how do I think the benefits that Apple, which is
Speaker 1: to be fair, one of the wealthiest companies in the world,
Speaker 1: compared to what workers in unions elsewhere receive, you would
Speaker 1: think they'd be a step above the rest. Oh, there
Speaker 1: are a step above the unionized sector of the economy,
Speaker 1: but there's certainly a step above a number of them.
Speaker 1: I think that probably UH the impetus for this comes
Speaker 1: from a desire of workers to to shape these employment
Speaker 1: conditions with the employer, not to have them unilaterally imposed
Speaker 1: upon them, and UH to to address issues like scheduling,
Speaker 1: like safety issues. And we've seen in this period of inflation,
Speaker 1: a decline in real wages. I think all of these
Speaker 1: issues a confluence of these issues and and the circumstances
Speaker 1: that have emerged in this period of uncertainty. I talk
Speaker 1: about wars and de Russian and pandemic in my book,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's a period of uncertainty where workers are
Speaker 1: frequently I'm more likely to look to unions and some
Speaker 1: kind of protective mechanism and some kind of participatory mechanism
Speaker 1: than they otherwise would now. Amazon, of course, has been
Speaker 1: facing unionization efforts of its own at warehouses, a vote
Speaker 1: in Staten Island, for example, to unionize. I recently sat
Speaker 1: down with Amazon CEO Andy Jassy and asked for his
Speaker 1: response to these efforts. Take a listen to what he
Speaker 1: had to say. We happen to think they're better off
Speaker 1: without a union for a number of reasons, including the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, it's it's much harder when you
Speaker 1: have a union to have a direct relationship with your
Speaker 1: manager and to get things done quickly. Amazon's labor union
Speaker 1: interestingly filed a charge over those remarks that he made
Speaker 1: to me. I'm curious what you see is the parallels
Speaker 1: between Apple and Amazon and what the difference between a
Speaker 1: wave of tech union unizations, how how that compares to
Speaker 1: the history of unions in this country. Well, there there
Speaker 1: have been uh waves of of trade union movement at
Speaker 1: various points. UH. The Great Depression, World War two are
Speaker 1: some of the most recent illustrations. UH, when workers are
Speaker 1: don't know really what's uh what lies ahead. UM, there's
Speaker 1: this idea that we can just sit down and work
Speaker 1: things out together. Is fine so long as the worker
Speaker 1: really has a say in it. And I think that
Speaker 1: the what the workers are saying through UH. These initiatives
Speaker 1: in Tech and Amazon Amazons are very formidable effort because
Speaker 1: there's so many employees that you have to organize in
Speaker 1: one uh and one swoop. Uh. You know, with the
Speaker 1: the Staten Island being approximately eight thousand workers, that's a
Speaker 1: tough thing for for union to do. And they were
Speaker 1: able to do it effectively in part because they were
Speaker 1: able to uh. It was a it was an independent
Speaker 1: ground swell. Though the workers came to the union. Um,
Speaker 1: the union is not coming to the workers. And that's
Speaker 1: the way it's been in every period of great union growth.
Speaker 1: I don't know that this is going to be a
Speaker 1: great period of union growth. I think we're in early days.
Speaker 1: So what do you think these tech companies Apple, Amazon
Speaker 1: at Teter should prepare for How do you see this
Speaker 1: playing out? Are they just going to have to pay
Speaker 1: these employees a lot more, give them much better benefits?
Speaker 1: What does it look like on the other side. I
Speaker 1: think the big thing is the two. It's not simply
Speaker 1: a matter of benefits. It's a matter of UH worker involvement,
Speaker 1: worker participation UM in determining schedule, in UH input into
Speaker 1: safety issues which have become so important in this pandemic
Speaker 1: era in a number of contexts, and UH and they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to in some instances, UH really come through
Speaker 1: with money for workers who, as I said, see their
Speaker 1: real wages declining for reasons that are totally beyond their control.
Speaker 1: And it seems at the present to anybody's control. All right, well,
Speaker 1: certainly very long chapter yet to be written here, William Gould,
Speaker 1: former Chair of the National Labored Relations Bards Stifford Law professor,
Speaker 1: really appreciate having your perspective here today on the show
Speaker 1: Coming up, changes are coming to metas it shifts its
Speaker 1: algorithm to bring more creators to the platform, creators you
Speaker 1: may not have heard of before and expand into the metaverse.
Speaker 1: Will explain it all next, Mr Bloomberg. Meta has big
Speaker 1: plans for creators as it looks for ways to continue
Speaker 1: to expand, especially in the metaverse. Mark Zuckerberg has announced
Speaker 1: new ways for creators to make money, including through n
Speaker 1: f t s, reels, and even from paid online events
Speaker 1: and subscriptions. On top of trying to lore more creators
Speaker 1: to better compete with TikTok, Meta is also shifting its algorithm.
Speaker 1: Since the invention of Facebook's news feed, the company has
Speaker 1: been focused on delivering content that it knows users want
Speaker 1: to see. However, after more than a decade, it's becoming
Speaker 1: clear some users need a little more to stay engaged.
Speaker 1: The success of TikTok has unearthed a new kind of
Speaker 1: algo magic, giving people content they didn't even know they
Speaker 1: wanted to see. This is why creators with little followings
Speaker 1: have been being able to gain massive traction on TikTok,
Speaker 1: but less so on metas platforms. Now, Mark Zuckerber wants
Speaker 1: to change all that. For more on all this, I'm
Speaker 1: joined by Bloomberg's tech editor Sarah Fryar So talk to
Speaker 1: us about what Meta a k a. Facebook is doing
Speaker 1: here and if it's gonna work. It's really a big
Speaker 1: bet to focus on showing people content from people they
Speaker 1: don't already follow, that they haven't already expressed interest in,
Speaker 1: in the hopes of helping those people build a following
Speaker 1: as creators. But it's really risky because it just flies
Speaker 1: in the face of all of the curation you've done
Speaker 1: of your feed, who you decide, who you want to follow,
Speaker 1: who you're friends with, etcetera. Um metas deciding that it
Speaker 1: thinks it has something to show you that might be better. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it might or might not work. So it's a
Speaker 1: big moment of experimentation. They're really betting the company on
Speaker 1: this because if they can't make money um from this pivot,
Speaker 1: then you won't be able to really fund the metaverse,
Speaker 1: and they won't have the creator relationships that they need
Speaker 1: take into the metaverse eventually. How A creators looking at
Speaker 1: the differences between a TikTok and a Facebook or on Instagram, Well,
Speaker 1: creators have their audiences on on Instagram that they where
Speaker 1: they really have this like back and forth relationship. Um,
Speaker 1: there's it's easier to connect in some ways on Instagram
Speaker 1: that it is on TikTok, But TikTok is is really
Speaker 1: offering people an opportunity for more followings, and is considered
Speaker 1: the easier place to become famous overnight compared to Instagram,
Speaker 1: which is already kind of established. And and Facebook is
Speaker 1: simply not top of mind for young people anymore. And
Speaker 1: that's another thing that the company really needs to change.
Speaker 1: So they're leaning on Instagram, and they're also leaning on
Speaker 1: changes to Facebook itself that are going to help draw
Speaker 1: in young people and make them more entertainment destinations than
Speaker 1: simple social networks. UM, that's all trying to compete with TikTok. However,
Speaker 1: you know this, this is what they really need to
Speaker 1: do to stay relevant. And if it doesn't work, UM,
Speaker 1: then they're going to have have um potentially alienated from
Speaker 1: people who have depended on the platforms working the way
Speaker 1: they already do. Fascinating a big bet. Indeed, we'll be
Speaker 1: watching to see how that one plays out. Bloomberg's certifire
Speaker 1: our tech editor, and also the book about Instagram, No Filter.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Chang
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Time now for some tech news you
Speaker 1: might have missed. Uber is bringing back its shared ride
Speaker 1: service for the first time since the pandemic it's now
Speaker 1: called Uber x share instead of Uberpool, joining Lift, which
Speaker 1: reactivated car pool services in some markets. Back in May,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's at Bloodlow here with the details and what do
Speaker 1: we know. Yeah, it's interesting. So if you choose to
Speaker 1: do Uber x share, you get partnered with the co writer,
Speaker 1: so it's just you and one other person. And Uber
Speaker 1: says that uses its algorithms to calculate your co writer
Speaker 1: based on your route, and who gets dropped off first
Speaker 1: depends on the route. There might be periods of time
Speaker 1: where you're riding on your own and someone gets in.
Speaker 1: You might be riding as a two and someone gets
Speaker 1: out and you carry on on your own the rest
Speaker 1: of the way. And they're introducing this and limited markets
Speaker 1: including l A, New York City, San Francisco. In fact,
Speaker 1: we have this tweet from somebody that noticed the news
Speaker 1: in New York City channeling their inner pandemic experience or
Speaker 1: pre pandemic experience, just with a bit of batter excited
Speaker 1: for a summer of chaotic encounters in the back of
Speaker 1: a Nissan Ultimate. We can all relate. I remember uberpool
Speaker 1: and other shared right services pre pandemic right, and you
Speaker 1: could have three or four people in the car. You're
Speaker 1: all in the back like somebody's got a briefcase and umbrella,
Speaker 1: a dog. Whatever is going on. This is kind of different,
Speaker 1: but it's going to be interesting to see the psychology
Speaker 1: of how users act to this after the pandemic. I mean,
Speaker 1: you look at the share performance right of Uber and
Speaker 1: Lift since June when things started to recover in the
Speaker 1: share price after the initial shock of the pandemic, and
Speaker 1: we're still down significantly. Right. Uber's story has been one
Speaker 1: where they've diversified the business with Uber eats Lift. You know,
Speaker 1: we've been debating in the recent weeks and quarters about
Speaker 1: whether the demand is really there, how much both of
Speaker 1: these companies will have to do to incentivized riders and drivers,
Speaker 1: and how that will weigh on the bomb line. Interesting
Speaker 1: in the case of Uber x share, if you offer
Speaker 1: that you get an immediate discount on your ride, which
Speaker 1: could be a way to lure people in. Right, and
Speaker 1: you see Uber and Left just trading in tandem. Really there,
Speaker 1: I gotta ask why why did they change the name?
Speaker 1: I mean, Uber x share doesn't just doesn't have the
Speaker 1: same ring as uberpool. Yeah, I lact songs to this
Speaker 1: as well. So what Uber saying their blog post is
Speaker 1: that after the pandemic shut down shared rides in they
Speaker 1: did a complete revamp. Right. They did pilots around the
Speaker 1: world in different markets. They redesigned the feature. And this
Speaker 1: is the core principle, Right, it's not really a pool
Speaker 1: of people. It's a co sharing ride that it's you
Speaker 1: and one other person, and it's limited. I'd also point
Speaker 1: out that there's there's no mask requirement, at least here
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, right, And Uber is saying that it's
Speaker 1: at the comfort level of riders whether they wear a mask.
Speaker 1: But that's the key point. It's just one and another,
Speaker 1: not a big pool of riders like uberpool. And I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of the mainstay of why they've changed
Speaker 1: the name. Right. I can only imagine the awkward masks
Speaker 1: now mask conversation. It's okay at ludlow, thank you. Following
Speaker 1: the recent collapse in token prices, one crypto lender is
Speaker 1: covering its spaces. Block five has asked for f t
Speaker 1: X as help to get more cash, with a two
Speaker 1: million dollar revolving credit facility. To be precise, this to
Speaker 1: avoid the same fate that other lenders have faced, like
Speaker 1: Celsius and Babble, which froze withdrawals on their platforms. Here
Speaker 1: to break it all down, our crypto contributor Shinnali. Boss,
Speaker 1: you scratch your back, I'll scratch mine, I guess. And
Speaker 1: there's some deals that come from a position of weakness
Speaker 1: and some from a position of strength and all that. Remember,
Speaker 1: as you said, some of the rivals to block By
Speaker 1: had paused withdrawals, and now you have a block By
Speaker 1: after also recently acknowledging that I had to liquidated a
Speaker 1: large client taking some funds from f t X. Remember
Speaker 1: when you look at why why this happened, you have
Speaker 1: spf Sam Bankman freed saying that sometimes leadership means acting decisively,
Speaker 1: and that's what block By did, removing troublesome counterparties before
Speaker 1: they became a problem and adding cash before it was necessary.
Speaker 1: Remember Sam Bankman Freeze Alimated Research also had extended credit
Speaker 1: to Voyage or Digital as well as a safeguard for
Speaker 1: client assets. In light of this a very volatile crypto
Speaker 1: market environment. And you know, you look at what people
Speaker 1: are saying about the whole thing. Is Sam bank been freed?
Speaker 1: Is f t X the white night here? Uh? You know,
Speaker 1: Anthony Scaramugi told Bloomberg it makes him the JP Morgan
Speaker 1: of the crypto industry and to talk about deals also
Speaker 1: that come from a position of strength. They also announced
Speaker 1: a deal to acquire an f T x c U S,
Speaker 1: a deal to acquire m bed, a clearing firm as
Speaker 1: it looks to expand. Interesting. Okay, so now I stay
Speaker 1: with us. I want to talk now about how the
Speaker 1: world of n f T s will evolve amidst this
Speaker 1: crypto winter. Our next guest Joshan Yin, who is the
Speaker 1: CEO of the n f T startup Magic Eden, which
Speaker 1: I know you mentioned earlier in the show and backed
Speaker 1: by Lightspeed Venture Partners and Sequoia joining us. Now, so look, Josan,
Speaker 1: this is the start of n f T n y C.
Speaker 1: I believe last year was a big year for n
Speaker 1: f T s, but we've seen the market quiet down.
Speaker 1: What's the impact of the crypto winter been on the
Speaker 1: n f T market and how do you see that
Speaker 1: playing out? Yeah, since, first of all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for having me, I think, yeah, definitely that has been
Speaker 1: a broader downtown and macro impact recently, I think from
Speaker 1: our point of view with Magic Eaton though it's been
Speaker 1: the last few months has been going from strength to strength.
Speaker 1: Um So, we are one of the fastest growing marketplaces
Speaker 1: in the world. We are about market share on Salana
Speaker 1: we uh and May actually was the largest ever month
Speaker 1: for us, so it's been about a ten x growth
Speaker 1: from the last time we raised. So I think from
Speaker 1: our point of view, we still see pretty significant demand
Speaker 1: from creators as well as end users to come and
Speaker 1: interact with and discovery f T s. And you know,
Speaker 1: the way we think about it is it's a long
Speaker 1: term time horizon here. We we sort of measure success
Speaker 1: on a multi year cycle and you know, ups and
Speaker 1: downs are part and parcel with crypto. So we're here
Speaker 1: for the long haul and super excited to be announcing
Speaker 1: this today. How is Magic Eating different from other n
Speaker 1: f T marketplaces like open Sea. Yeah, great question. This
Speaker 1: comes up a lot actually, and the reason we started
Speaker 1: Magic Eating was it was very intentional. Um So for us,
Speaker 1: like we consider ourselves a very very community centric and
Speaker 1: and deeply create a focused marketplace. Um what does that
Speaker 1: mean exactly? It means that this permeates everything that we do.
Speaker 1: So for example, one of the earliest products that we
Speaker 1: built was actually a launch pad, which is an end
Speaker 1: to end create a create a tool, and create a
Speaker 1: service that helps create as launch n f T Collections UM. Secondly,
Speaker 1: we actually partner with Collections through the entire journey, so
Speaker 1: not just at launch, but through the end to end
Speaker 1: experience where they may want to build a customer embedded marketplace,
Speaker 1: we're also a partner for that. UM. And then on
Speaker 1: the community side, I really think that it's important to
Speaker 1: consider marketplaces is more than just the point of sale,
Speaker 1: So we actually want to work with communities to to
Speaker 1: actually be there around the entire discovery journey, whether it's
Speaker 1: you know, analytics, whether it's research, whether it's actually the
Speaker 1: point of sale. We want to be there. So I
Speaker 1: think from our point of view, we're really excited to
Speaker 1: continue building for the future UM and for us UM
Speaker 1: that means you know, continuing to expand the team, continuing
Speaker 1: to grow the line of docks, so we're super excited
Speaker 1: about that. So you made a very specific decision to
Speaker 1: be a Salona and f T market place, and I'm
Speaker 1: really curious, you know, find faster speeds, lower transaction costs,
Speaker 1: but also real outages. So what's the trade off here
Speaker 1: and what are some of the things that are going
Speaker 1: to need to be worked through to make this a
Speaker 1: viable solution. Yeah, for sure. So it's obviously still very early,
Speaker 1: and I think the tradeoff here was going with Salana
Speaker 1: is that it's a it's a newer chain, right, so
Speaker 1: they're still working through a lot of the growing pains,
Speaker 1: and as much as we have grown over the last
Speaker 1: nine months, which has been pretty insane, they are experiencing
Speaker 1: something similar. But we have obviously huge faith in what
Speaker 1: they're doing, and the decision to launch there was very
Speaker 1: intentional because the cost of experimentation is lower when the
Speaker 1: when when transactions are cheaper, and for us, that means
Speaker 1: more creatives, more end users who are willing to come
Speaker 1: and try n f T s for the first time,
Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully that means that will continue to
Speaker 1: grow over the long term, and we want to be
Speaker 1: here as a part of that. I'm wondering about n
Speaker 1: f T pricing also here, because you've seen things self
Speaker 1: for extraordinary amounts in the last year, millions and millions
Speaker 1: of dollars, and some of those same assets are now
Speaker 1: trading for a lot less. Uh, And so what is
Speaker 1: a normal price here? What where does the markets start
Speaker 1: to stabilize, what is the average price of an n
Speaker 1: f T. It's really hard to say. I wish I
Speaker 1: could answer that for you, but I think overall we
Speaker 1: we definitely see strong demand still for n f T
Speaker 1: s um you know, effectively. I think about n f
Speaker 1: T s in a really similar way in terms of
Speaker 1: the market cycle to where fungible tokens where four or
Speaker 1: five years ago. So it's okay to talk about prices
Speaker 1: up down sideways. Ultimately, what matters is like, look at
Speaker 1: the trajectory of the growth. Fungible tokens became became a
Speaker 1: trillion dollar market, right and n f T s, I think,
Speaker 1: are a much more applicable technology to many, many things
Speaker 1: across the spectrum of culture. So regardless of where we
Speaker 1: see the price end up, I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: to build. Josh and I have to ask you about
Speaker 1: Bill Gates's remarks recently about the n f T market.
Speaker 1: He said it's entirely based on the greater full theory,
Speaker 1: and then added odd obviously, expensive digital images of monkeys
Speaker 1: are going to improve the world immensely. With not a
Speaker 1: small dose of sarcasm, what is Bill Gates getting wrong?
Speaker 1: I mean, Bill, come and come and try out Magic Aid,
Speaker 1: and we'd love to have you on the platform. No.
Speaker 1: I think the couple of things that I would call
Speaker 1: out is that, yeah, we're very early in the general
Speaker 1: n FT category and FT ecosystem. Um. Yeah, like profile pictures,
Speaker 1: you know, they may not seem like something that's very
Speaker 1: interesting or very exciting to a lot of people, but
Speaker 1: the reality is that they got very popular, and they're fun,
Speaker 1: they're social. It's at the intersection of culture um, and
Speaker 1: they have permeated a lot of society. I think one
Speaker 1: of the things that we are really excited about is
Speaker 1: enabling more forms of utility for these n f t s.
Speaker 1: So part of this raise is actually going to go
Speaker 1: to what's building out a gaming vertical at Magic Eiden.
Speaker 1: And you know, gaming is an inherently social activity. It's
Speaker 1: where communities already gather, and you can imagine the same
Speaker 1: the same types of behavior where people are buying I
Speaker 1: didn't and skins already that are not crypto related. People
Speaker 1: are going to be doing those things with n f
Speaker 1: t s. And the cool thing about that is that
Speaker 1: it's a it's actually true ownership that's happening here. So
Speaker 1: it's early. I mean, we invite Bill to come on
Speaker 1: and check out Magic Eating, we we'd happily walk him
Speaker 1: through all the all infrastructure. I wondering also if you
Speaker 1: can speak a little to the overall fundraising environment here,
Speaker 1: because you're a rare company that was able to see
Speaker 1: a tenfold surge invaluation since March. Find you right, So
Speaker 1: how hard is it out there to actually raise money?
Speaker 1: What are investors looking for when they're putting their money
Speaker 1: to work. Yeah, I'd say it's it's absolutely tougher right
Speaker 1: now than it was probably two three months ago, for sure.
Speaker 1: But I still think that if you are a really
Speaker 1: high quality team with clarity of thought, clarity of vision,
Speaker 1: strong execution, long term focused investors will still, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to do these deals, and I think Magic
Speaker 1: Eating is a testament to that, where, you know, despite
Speaker 1: a deteriorating market over the last couple of months, our
Speaker 1: numbers have been a strong as ever, and we actually
Speaker 1: had a lot of appetite and interest inbound from both
Speaker 1: our existing investors in the previous round and new investors.
Speaker 1: So there is appetite still to do deals. But I
Speaker 1: think the implication is you need to there's a longer
Speaker 1: dating period, shall we say, right, with a lot of
Speaker 1: teams and investors, and I think that's actually probably healthy
Speaker 1: for the market. So obviously you're optimistic. Paint the picture
Speaker 1: five years out. What does the n f T market
Speaker 1: look like, how much is it worth? What problems is
Speaker 1: it solving? Yeah, I think the n of team market
Speaker 1: will be a trillion dollar market. Going back to the
Speaker 1: point earlier around sort of mimicking the growth of fungible tokens,
Speaker 1: I do believe that n f T s will permeate many,
Speaker 1: many different types of assets. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that we really pumped about is, let's explore the universe
Speaker 1: of gaming n f T s. Let's explore the universe
Speaker 1: of music n f T S. I really don't think
Speaker 1: that it all stops with profile pictures and um, this
Speaker 1: is a very inherently social experience. It's it permeates a
Speaker 1: lot of different things around culture, and you know, hopefully
Speaker 1: this is just the beginning and it spurs a lot
Speaker 1: of other amazing innovation in the n f T space.
Speaker 1: So we're just stick to be a part of it,
Speaker 1: and hopefully we can push the ecosystem forward with a
Speaker 1: lot of other builders out there Josh and CEO of
Speaker 1: Magic Eating and our very own Shinelli Bossa thank you both.
Speaker 1: Coming up the future of work and how to power it.
Speaker 1: Will speak about all that and more with Coral CEO
Speaker 1: Christo Quarrels, who's also got a view on the market
Speaker 1: and lived through her share of downturns. She joins us. Next,
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. In this week's Teconomics, we bring you
Speaker 1: the story of Coral, a developer of business productivity, graphics
Speaker 1: and operating system solutions that wants to drive the future
Speaker 1: of work and compete against the likes of vm Ware
Speaker 1: and Citrics. Coral CEO Crystal Corals joins me now to
Speaker 1: talk about this vision and more so, how do you
Speaker 1: intend to compete with Citrics, vm Ware, which are to
Speaker 1: be fair giants in the tech space. They definitely are giants.
Speaker 1: If you look at our largest product, it's Parallels, which,
Speaker 1: as many people know, enables you to do such things
Speaker 1: as running Windows on a Mac. But it's more than that.
Speaker 1: So we have the desktop solution that millions of people
Speaker 1: enjoy and love and enable them to do a better job.
Speaker 1: But we also have a server cloud and we just
Speaker 1: bought a company this week that enables us to be
Speaker 1: anywhere so you don't have to download anything. But really
Speaker 1: about a zero trust security way of streaming applications. And
Speaker 1: so we think about the virtualization space. There are the
Speaker 1: big giants like Citrics, m VM where who are really
Speaker 1: serving clients that have five thousand and up consumers. We're
Speaker 1: here to make it easy for every company, every worker,
Speaker 1: and every company to work from wherever they want, be
Speaker 1: at the coffee shop, the sofa, the office in a
Speaker 1: really secure and easy way. You've been around the block,
Speaker 1: Christa at you were the CEO of Open Table. You've
Speaker 1: been through some ups and downs when it comes to
Speaker 1: the markets. How do you see the shift to remote
Speaker 1: work playing out? Is this here for good? Are some
Speaker 1: companies going to regret telling their employees they could work
Speaker 1: from home forever? I think the genieu is clearly out
Speaker 1: of the bottle. If you look at pre pandemic work,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of that came from what it
Speaker 1: was like to come into a factory. It didn't imagine
Speaker 1: a world where zoom and collaboration tools and software really
Speaker 1: enabled people's daily lives. And we believe that when you
Speaker 1: work better, you live better, and people don't going to
Speaker 1: give that up. We've seen that in how people are
Speaker 1: willing to accept a salary decrease for not having to
Speaker 1: come into the office. And I think the companies that
Speaker 1: remain abject about their desire to get people in they
Speaker 1: are going to suffer as it relates to where talent
Speaker 1: wants to go. That's not to say we don't gather.
Speaker 1: It's not to say that we don't get people together.
Speaker 1: But I believe that your personal productivity pod should be
Speaker 1: where you ever you wanted to be, and you should
Speaker 1: be able to connect securely and hopefully use some of
Speaker 1: our products while you do so. So Ellen us calling
Speaker 1: workers back in the office, do you think he's going
Speaker 1: to be on the wrong side of history. I mean,
Speaker 1: could this hurt companies that are forcing employees to come
Speaker 1: back to the office. I think it's all about understanding,
Speaker 1: also what your business is. We have the benefit of
Speaker 1: being what I like to say, we're in the bits
Speaker 1: business and not the Adams business, meaning we ship software.
Speaker 1: We don't have a physical product. Obviously, they're delivering a
Speaker 1: large and complex physical product with a supply chain to boot.
Speaker 1: And I think there are times in which he's he
Speaker 1: needs to demonstrate from a cultural standpoint, how those people
Speaker 1: need to come in. I think if you're building software,
Speaker 1: which is our case, we can be more flexible and
Speaker 1: we can lean in and give the knowledge worker not
Speaker 1: just flexibility but freedom, which is ultimately what they're seeking.
Speaker 1: You live through the dot com bust, and I'm curious
Speaker 1: how you think this compares. Do you think a recession
Speaker 1: is inevitable? And if so, is it a big R
Speaker 1: or a little R? Yeah, this is my second down turn,
Speaker 1: and so it's always interesting to see people who have
Speaker 1: just been operating for the last thirteen years and think
Speaker 1: it's fully representative. It does feel to me more like
Speaker 1: the dot com bust, how albeit with much higher interest rates.
Speaker 1: And so I do think is a big art recession.
Speaker 1: Anytime inflation is north of five percent, you're going to
Speaker 1: have a pretty significant challenge out there in the market.
Speaker 1: I think it's a question of how quickly you do
Speaker 1: companies respond. I was at an event the other day
Speaker 1: and somebody said, uh, economics are the new black, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was amusing, because you know, I come
Speaker 1: from the private equity landscape, as we're backed by Ker
Speaker 1: and the unit economics have always been a mainstay of
Speaker 1: our business, and it will need to be so going
Speaker 1: forward for many other companies. So how do you think
Speaker 1: this is going to impact the broader landscape of of
Speaker 1: all of these tech unicorns that have raised money at
Speaker 1: high valuations on top of these huge public tech companies
Speaker 1: that have been enjoying very nice multiples, and you know,
Speaker 1: will they recover well? I think if you need to
Speaker 1: raise capital, that capital got significantly more expensive, you know
Speaker 1: to you know, the flat round is the new upround.
Speaker 1: And I think the reality is, you know, how are
Speaker 1: managers employees going to respond in this environment? So when
Speaker 1: the dollar is up, oil is up, and interest rates
Speaker 1: are up, it means equity has to be down. And
Speaker 1: when equity is down, the primary driver of uh tech
Speaker 1: first workers who work for the equity. They get cranky
Speaker 1: and it's getting more challenging and by the way, they
Speaker 1: might be losing a job. And so the whole ecosystem
Speaker 1: is being thrust into this world where the cost of
Speaker 1: capital is such that you cannot grow at any price.
Speaker 1: You've got to grow at a thoughtful, unit economic driven price.
Speaker 1: So how is this all going to impact the war
Speaker 1: for talent? On the one hand, you've had the great
Speaker 1: resignation and workers who are deciding, you know what, I
Speaker 1: just don't want to do this anymore, and I have
Speaker 1: all of these options. Now you see the market contracting
Speaker 1: people don't necessarily have that kind of optionality. There are
Speaker 1: layoffs and hiring freezes happening across the tech industry. How
Speaker 1: do those two balance each other out? I think you
Speaker 1: have to look at which labor market you're in, So
Speaker 1: I would be very concerned if you are in a
Speaker 1: market like San Francisco or New York where you're cost
Speaker 1: of your labor generally is higher than cost of other
Speaker 1: labor out there in the marketplace. I think what it's
Speaker 1: done is created a level playing field for twent across
Speaker 1: not just the United States, but across the globe. And
Speaker 1: you know, we clearly employ UH developer teams outside of
Speaker 1: the United States. We think it's a critical advantage for
Speaker 1: US as an organization. But I think it is a
Speaker 1: great leveling of talent too. It used to be that
Speaker 1: you had to be at a certain location to manage
Speaker 1: and benefit from the ecosystem, and now I think that's
Speaker 1: gone as our tools and our collaboration software enables people
Speaker 1: to truly be effective from any place. So it's a
Speaker 1: great level of her talent. Okay, So if it's a
Speaker 1: great level of her talent, who wins and who loses?
Speaker 1: If you're a San Francisco engineer, it could be probably um.
Speaker 1: But great talent is always always in need. And I
Speaker 1: think what you see in some of these companies who
Speaker 1: have raised exceptionally large rounds, they couldn't even hire their
Speaker 1: you know, according to their hiring plan. Um. But you're
Speaker 1: also going to see those hiring plans get dramatically scaled back.
Speaker 1: I think you know, I talk about management by haiku.
Speaker 1: If you had no bounds, you could do anything, but
Speaker 1: you might not be as creative as you otherwise would
Speaker 1: have been. So how do you manage within seventeen syllables
Speaker 1: and actually still build a great product? And I think
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of people look at the incredible
Speaker 1: companies that get born out of our session because they
Speaker 1: had to be mindful and choosy about where they spent
Speaker 1: their money. Management by haiku, that is a new one
Speaker 1: for me. I will remember Corals, Christopher Corals, thank you
Speaker 1: as always to have you back here on the show.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't for the edition of Bloomberg Technology We're
Speaker 1: gonna be back tomorrow with a number of great guests.
Speaker 1: Slack CEO and co founder Stewart Butterfield will be with
Speaker 1: us along with Shopify president probably finglestoned to talk about
Speaker 1: new features the company is launching. We don't forget to
Speaker 1: check out our new podcast as well. Wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts, This is Bloomberg.