WEBVTT - Musk and Twitter's 'Unresolved Matters 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.680 From the heart of where Innovation, money and power COLLI 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:10.080 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:26.600 Emily Jay I'm Emily Check in San Francisco, and this 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.240 is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Elon 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.000 Musk tells Bloomberg there are still unresolved matters when it 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.600 comes to his bid for Twitter, and that he believes 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.600 a recession is likely. We'll bring you our conversation with 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.400 the Tesla CEO from the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha, 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:46.960 plus the first for Apple workers at a retail store 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.120 in Maryland vote to unionize. We'll talk to the former 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.600 chair of the National Labor Relations Board about whether the 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.040 iPhone maker should brace for a wave of union votes 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:00.240 at stores around the world, and monetizing meta how the 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.399 company is shifting priorities and its algorithms in an effort 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.160 to chase TikTok. We will get to all of that 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.960 in a moment, but first, U stocks rebounding after last 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.640 week's route eraised nearly two trillion dollars from the SMP 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.160 five hundred blueis Katie Gray felt here to walk us 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.600 through the day and how tech played in it. Katie 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.520 take it away. Well, Emily, was a big broad rally today. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.760 You had both the SMP five hundred and the NAZAC 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.039 one hundred fishing two and a half percent higher. That 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.560 was even though you did seal yields continue to climb. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.919 If you look at the tenure treasure yield fishing about 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.919 five basis points higher today, but still volatility taking a breather. 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.120 You're looking at the vix. They're breaking below thirty at 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.800 one point, finishing a little bit above thirty, but still 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.240 seeing some of the volatility exit the market. As we 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.200 saw stocks rebound today and within that rally, two stocks 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.040 caught my eye Tesla and Twitter. Of course, like you said, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.920 we heard from Elon Musk in conversation with Bloomberg News 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.120 editor in chief John Michael Swaite. This was an interesting 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.720 so on the Twitter front, you heard Musk, like you said, Emily, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.840 say that there's still a few unresolved matters with the 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.880 Twitter deal, leaving a few question marks. There still Twitter 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.320 shares finishing three percent higher. Tesla even more so, even 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.200 though we heard must say that layoffs have started at Tesla, 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.040 that the company plans to layoff ten percent of its 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.919 salaried workforce. Over the next three months. Still you saw 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.840 a big rally in Tesla shares, finishing over nine percent higher. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.440 But if you zoom out away from just today's rally, 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.280 what's interesting is that we know that tech has had 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.000 a really tough time this year. If you look at 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:37.399 the SMP five hundreds top ten largest tech companies, they're 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.320 down about thirty percent so far this year. But cracks 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.079 are starting to show up outside of tech too, And 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.520 you're looking at the top ten largest non tech companies 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.760 in the SMP five hundred, that's the white line you 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.360 can see now down over two percent, Emily. So we'll 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.440 see if this rally that we saw at least today 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.040 can sustain itself as other areas of the market begin 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.280 to come under a little bit of pressure. Here all right, Katie, 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:02.800 thanks for that. I want to take a look at 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.440 the crypto markets now and this weekend's bitcoin drama downs 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.200 and some up spoilstering hope for some relief from the 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.440 crypto winter. Bloomberg Shnale Boss here to break it all 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.919 down socanally. Is it gonna keep up? Well, it's already 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.000 starting to slow down. We are still seeing a lift 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.560 in bitcoin, Emily, but remember Sunday brought you a more 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.480 than fifteen percent lift in bitcoin prices. Now you're looking 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.600 at about a two percent rise in the last twenty 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.440 four hours. Earlier today it was about five percent. So 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.800 that shows you that that the steam is starting to 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.000 slow down a little bit. But you are still seeing 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.800 still a rise. So yes, Bitcoin higher, hovering above a 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.240 twenty thousand. Let's take a look also here at ethereum, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.080 because like bitcoin got a massive rise on Sunday, even 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.920 bigger jump than Bitcoin, but you are seeing that rise 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.800 start to slow down significantly now only up about two 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:56.520 tenths of one percent. Still, you do see ethereum giving 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:58.839 some life back to the n f T market as well. 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.160 You're seeing an n f T indecks rise once again. 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.560 And look at these volumes up quite a bit when 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.000 you look at the largest market places, look at open Sea, 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.200 it's actually up much more than that right now in 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.440 terms of volumes. Looks rare volumes are also higher in 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.040 the last twenty four hours. And interesting magic even yes, 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.520 the volumes are down over the most recent period, but today, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:22.720 just today they announced a funding round that had their 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:28.120 valuation announced as surging tenfolds, and so you are seeing 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.440 the n f T market come to life, just as 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.840 people gather at NYC n f T. There's a lot 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.799 of excitement around what the future brings. Despite the SCRIPTO 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.599 Winter Shinali, thanks for that. We've got the co founder 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.800 of Magic Eating coming up with us later in the show. 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.400 You'll be back for that meantime. Elon Musk commented on 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.520 everything from Twitter to the markets to Tesla in a 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.359 wide ranging interview with Bloomberg's editor in chief John michel 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:55.280 Sweet at the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha. But anyone 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.600 hoping to hear him commit to his deal to buy 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.240 Twitter would be disappointed. Take a listen of what do 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.000 you had to say about that and more? There are still, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.719 um a few unresolved matters. You've You've probably read about 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.760 the question as to whether the number of fake and 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.480 spam users on the system is less than five percent 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.480 as Twitter claims, which I think is probably not most 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.800 people's experience on we're using Twitter. UM So we're still 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.200 awaiting resolution on that matter. UM. And that that is 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:34.720 a very significant matter. UM So we're awaiting resolution on that. Um. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.240 And then of course there is the question of will 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:44.080 the dead portion of the round come together, and then 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.440 will the share holders vote in favor? So I think 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:51.080 those are the three things that um standard. Uh, you 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.000 know if that needs to be resolved before the transaction 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.440 can complete. What about the general state of the economy? 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.600 Does that weigh on you when you think about this? 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.119 I mean, just described it. You have a super bad 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.280 feeling about the economy. Are you still in that position? 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.360 I just said to you earlier Joe Biden has just 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.400 come out and said that a recession in America is 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:17.280 not inevitable. How do you feel about the economy? Well, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.600 I think a recession is inevitable at some point. As 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.159 to whether there is a reception in the near term, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.479 I think that is more likely than not. Certainly isn't. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.800 It's not a certainty, but it appears more likelier than that. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.400 Can you set the record straight on one thing, which 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.880 is this issue about the layoffs? I think you said 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.719 initially that Tesla ten percent of the workforce would be cut, 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.640 then ten percent of salary would be cut, then salaried 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.840 would stay fl flat and overall headcamp would go up. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.839 What what what is the number? I know there's already 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.320 I think being a lawsuit about the ten percent? Is 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.760 ten percent. The goal to reduce the workforce or what 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.960 is the number that we should think about all that 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:08.440 you're planning. Yes, so it TESLA is reducing the salary 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:13.760 workforce are roughly ten percent over the next probably three 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:19.440 months or so. UM. The UH we expect to grow 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:24.040 out our hourly workforce. Act quite clear that we expected 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:29.760 to grow our own hourly workforce, but we uh, we 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.680 grew very fast on the on the salary side, UM, 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.160 and we grew a little too fast in some areas, 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.800 and so it requires reduction in the salary workforce. And 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:46.640 we're about two thirds hourly and one third salary. So 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.080 I guess technically attempts at reduction in the salary workforce 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.520 is only probably a three three and a half a 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:57.840 cent reduction in total headcount. TESLA CEO Elon Musk. They're 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.400 speaking with Bloomberg editor in chief John Michael Weight from 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.320 the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha. I want to break 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.960 some of that down with our own at Ludlow. Let's 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.720 start on Tesla since that's where they ended. What's the 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.280 significance of what we learned right there? Yeah, I think 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.440 that the main takeaway and what he goes on to 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.280 say is that demand is really strong, that they have 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.680 a really long wait list for their vehicles, and he 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.160 talked about how they need to build more factories quicker. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:24.880 And the point he was making that piece of tape 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.239 is that they are reducing ten percent of salary staff. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.720 The salary staff is only a third of the workforce, 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:32.360 so it kind of nets out at a three to 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.320 three and a half percent reduction of headcount globally and 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.719 tests a kind of ballooned right over the last few years, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.400 a hundred thousand employees. They're kind of trimming back in 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.400 some areas, according to Mask and the focusing on priority, 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.000 which is people that actually build stuff, the cars, the 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.880 battery packs around the world. Talking about other people that 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.240 are building stuff. The employees at Twitter probably didn't get 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.000 an answer one way or another whether or not he's 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.600 going to go through with the deal. You know, it 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.520 was it was like recent appearances by Ask. He did 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.880 not explicitly state that he is committed to the deal 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.199 as its outlined twenty cents to share. You know, he 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.480 kind of went through the motions and he gave this 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.440 caveat that he was trying to do deposition minimization. He 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.840 didn't want to get into legal trouble because it's appending deal, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.720 but still problems with bots. Still need to shareholder vote 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:21.760 to make this happen. We keep forgetting that. And the 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.800 debt real quick reference of debt thirteen billion dollars a 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.120 debt committed by banks, and he seemed to suggest that 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.480 that too is not solid. I wonder how much it 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.400 doesn't help that he thinks a recession is likely at 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.240 some point and Twitter, along with the rest of the markets, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.640 has taken a turn. Yeah, continuation of his thoughts right. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.120 He said previously as a super bad feeling about the economy, 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.760 referencing internal memo, and he said that, you know, a 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.040 recession is kind of going to happen at some point. 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.800 The economy is cyclical. That makes sense. But is it 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.600 going to happen in the near term? He said, more 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.120 likely than not. Twitter's market cap twenty nine billion dollars. Yes. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.040 At the end of this trading session, he did talk 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.400 about DOJ and we had some interesting commentary there along 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.280 with his support for cryptocurrencies. So those coins really interesting. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.800 He clarified, first of all, he's not suggesting that people 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:09.839 go out and invest in cryptocurrencies. That was part of 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:11.360 the question that was put to him, he said, I'm 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.840 not saying that. He said that he went across the 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:18.400 factory floors a Tesla SpaceX and he has workers, you know, engineers, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.280 all kinds of people in the workforce saying to him, 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.000 we're invested in doge coin. Can you support it? And 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.200 he says that's his rationale for supporting it, And of 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.360 course he's bought dogecoin himself. You can buy test the 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.760 merchandise and not vehicles, but merchandise using doged coin. So 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.960 he seems to be suggesting that his support is because 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.520 he has a wide network of employees that also support 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.600 cryptocurrency UM and he kind of made the bitcoin side 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.640 of things with TESSAs Holdings being a very small, inconsequential 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.800 part of the balance sheet. Interesting, a little bit more 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.880 meat on the bones there at Bludlow. Thank you for 0:10:52.960 --> 0:11:02.160 your analysis. That's the sound of Apple workers in Tosa 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.160 in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore, which just became the 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.520 first Apple retail store in the country to unionize. Store 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:14.160 employees voted overwhelming Lady unionized to thirty three, and this 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.520 is likely just the beginning, as more stores are expected 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.640 to organize around the world. In recent months, we've seen 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.120 more and more workers at tech companies unionized, But with 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.080 the tightening labor market and the economy turning down, how 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.840 much influence can they have for more? I'm joined by 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.640 William Gould the fourth. He is the former chairman of 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.480 the National Labor Relations Board, a scholar on labor law 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.040 at Stanford Law School, and author of the book for 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:43.000 Labor To Build Upon Wars, Depression and Pandemic. William, thank 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.440 you so much for joining us. So look, the vote 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.080 wasn't even close. What does that tell you about the 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.000 chances that this is going to happen at many more 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.360 Apple stores? Well, I think it's likely that it will 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.960 happen at many more stores. We don't know really how many, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:03.520 uh it's likely to be, but clearly something is happening. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.040 We've been talking for a long time about the unrelenting 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:12.199 decline of organized labor and the absence of organized labor 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:17.000 from tech altogether. That's beginning to change a bit. How 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.840 much we don't know. I think there are a number 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:24.800 of factors and issues which have made this possible. But 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.920 there's no doubt about the fact that something is happening, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.880 and it's quite feasible possible that it will happen elsewhere 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.840 there and another companies. Apple has said in a statement 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.360 about the possibility of this happening in the past, We're 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.200 fortunate to have incredible retail team members, and we deeply 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.680 value everything they bring to Apple. We're pleased to offer 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.400 very strong compensation and benefits for full time and part 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:55.199 time employees, including healthcare, tuition reimbursement, new parental leave, paid 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.640 family leave, annual stock grants, and many other benefits. You know, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.920 how do I think the benefits that Apple, which is 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.600 to be fair, one of the wealthiest companies in the world, 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:11.880 compared to what workers in unions elsewhere receive, you would 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.240 think they'd be a step above the rest. Oh, there 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.040 are a step above the unionized sector of the economy, 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.240 but there's certainly a step above a number of them. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.360 I think that probably UH the impetus for this comes 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.359 from a desire of workers to to shape these employment 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.679 conditions with the employer, not to have them unilaterally imposed 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:40.000 upon them, and UH to to address issues like scheduling, 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:45.960 like safety issues. And we've seen in this period of inflation, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.520 a decline in real wages. I think all of these 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.439 issues a confluence of these issues and and the circumstances 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.280 that have emerged in this period of uncertainty. I talk 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.240 about wars and de Russian and pandemic in my book, 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:07.079 and uh, it's a period of uncertainty where workers are 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.920 frequently I'm more likely to look to unions and some 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.920 kind of protective mechanism and some kind of participatory mechanism 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:19.880 than they otherwise would now. Amazon, of course, has been 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:25.200 facing unionization efforts of its own at warehouses, a vote 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.880 in Staten Island, for example, to unionize. I recently sat 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.160 down with Amazon CEO Andy Jassy and asked for his 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.880 response to these efforts. Take a listen to what he 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.160 had to say. We happen to think they're better off 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.800 without a union for a number of reasons, including the 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.560 fact that you know, it's it's much harder when you 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.040 have a union to have a direct relationship with your 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:54.800 manager and to get things done quickly. Amazon's labor union 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.040 interestingly filed a charge over those remarks that he made 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.800 to me. I'm curious what you see is the parallels 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.640 between Apple and Amazon and what the difference between a 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.080 wave of tech union unizations, how how that compares to 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:14.000 the history of unions in this country. Well, there there 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:19.960 have been uh waves of of trade union movement at 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:24.560 various points. UH. The Great Depression, World War two are 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:29.400 some of the most recent illustrations. UH, when workers are 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:34.960 don't know really what's uh what lies ahead. UM, there's 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.600 this idea that we can just sit down and work 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.400 things out together. Is fine so long as the worker 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.480 really has a say in it. And I think that 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.760 the what the workers are saying through UH. These initiatives 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:53.440 in Tech and Amazon Amazons are very formidable effort because 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.360 there's so many employees that you have to organize in 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.720 one uh and one swoop. Uh. You know, with the 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:06.440 the Staten Island being approximately eight thousand workers, that's a 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.200 tough thing for for union to do. And they were 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.360 able to do it effectively in part because they were 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.200 able to uh. It was a it was an independent 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.960 ground swell. Though the workers came to the union. Um, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.320 the union is not coming to the workers. And that's 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.680 the way it's been in every period of great union growth. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.120 I don't know that this is going to be a 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.880 great period of union growth. I think we're in early days. 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.160 So what do you think these tech companies Apple, Amazon 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.080 at Teter should prepare for How do you see this 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.320 playing out? Are they just going to have to pay 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.800 these employees a lot more, give them much better benefits? 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.040 What does it look like on the other side. I 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.760 think the big thing is the two. It's not simply 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:55.080 a matter of benefits. It's a matter of UH worker involvement, 0:16:55.120 --> 0:17:02.120 worker participation UM in determining schedule, in UH input into 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:07.000 safety issues which have become so important in this pandemic 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.400 era in a number of contexts, and UH and they're 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.760 gonna have to in some instances, UH really come through 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:20.560 with money for workers who, as I said, see their 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:26.920 real wages declining for reasons that are totally beyond their control. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.919 And it seems at the present to anybody's control. All right, well, 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.200 certainly very long chapter yet to be written here, William Gould, 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.680 former Chair of the National Labored Relations Bards Stifford Law professor, 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.800 really appreciate having your perspective here today on the show 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.640 Coming up, changes are coming to metas it shifts its 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.760 algorithm to bring more creators to the platform, creators you 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.240 may not have heard of before and expand into the metaverse. 0:17:55.280 --> 0:18:12.600 Will explain it all next, Mr Bloomberg. Meta has big 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.800 plans for creators as it looks for ways to continue 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.000 to expand, especially in the metaverse. Mark Zuckerberg has announced 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.000 new ways for creators to make money, including through n 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.399 f t s, reels, and even from paid online events 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.600 and subscriptions. On top of trying to lore more creators 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:33.160 to better compete with TikTok, Meta is also shifting its algorithm. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.479 Since the invention of Facebook's news feed, the company has 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.320 been focused on delivering content that it knows users want 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.560 to see. However, after more than a decade, it's becoming 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.880 clear some users need a little more to stay engaged. 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.080 The success of TikTok has unearthed a new kind of 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.639 algo magic, giving people content they didn't even know they 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.600 wanted to see. This is why creators with little followings 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.800 have been being able to gain massive traction on TikTok, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:03.040 but less so on metas platforms. Now, Mark Zuckerber wants 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:04.560 to change all that. For more on all this, I'm 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.520 joined by Bloomberg's tech editor Sarah Fryar So talk to 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.439 us about what Meta a k a. Facebook is doing 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:14.000 here and if it's gonna work. It's really a big 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.800 bet to focus on showing people content from people they 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.359 don't already follow, that they haven't already expressed interest in, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.840 in the hopes of helping those people build a following 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.159 as creators. But it's really risky because it just flies 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.320 in the face of all of the curation you've done 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.520 of your feed, who you decide, who you want to follow, 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.040 who you're friends with, etcetera. Um metas deciding that it 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.600 thinks it has something to show you that might be better. Uh, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.520 and it might or might not work. So it's a 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.239 big moment of experimentation. They're really betting the company on 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.000 this because if they can't make money um from this pivot, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.360 then you won't be able to really fund the metaverse, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.880 and they won't have the creator relationships that they need 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.479 take into the metaverse eventually. How A creators looking at 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:09.960 the differences between a TikTok and a Facebook or on Instagram, Well, 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:15.320 creators have their audiences on on Instagram that they where 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.639 they really have this like back and forth relationship. Um, 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.800 there's it's easier to connect in some ways on Instagram 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.679 that it is on TikTok, But TikTok is is really 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.920 offering people an opportunity for more followings, and is considered 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:33.320 the easier place to become famous overnight compared to Instagram, 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.399 which is already kind of established. And and Facebook is 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.080 simply not top of mind for young people anymore. And 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.399 that's another thing that the company really needs to change. 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.320 So they're leaning on Instagram, and they're also leaning on 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.320 changes to Facebook itself that are going to help draw 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.000 in young people and make them more entertainment destinations than 0:20:54.080 --> 0:21:00.640 simple social networks. UM, that's all trying to compete with TikTok. However, 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.200 you know this, this is what they really need to 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.720 do to stay relevant. And if it doesn't work, UM, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:11.639 then they're going to have have um potentially alienated from 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.679 people who have depended on the platforms working the way 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:18.439 they already do. Fascinating a big bet. Indeed, we'll be 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.560 watching to see how that one plays out. Bloomberg's certifire 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.200 our tech editor, and also the book about Instagram, No Filter. 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:36.480 Thank you, Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Chang 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.200 in San Francisco. Time now for some tech news you 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.359 might have missed. Uber is bringing back its shared ride 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.400 service for the first time since the pandemic it's now 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.480 called Uber x share instead of Uberpool, joining Lift, which 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.840 reactivated car pool services in some markets. Back in May, 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.040 Bloomberg's at Bloodlow here with the details and what do 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.199 we know. Yeah, it's interesting. So if you choose to 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.440 do Uber x share, you get partnered with the co writer, 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.840 so it's just you and one other person. And Uber 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:09.000 says that uses its algorithms to calculate your co writer 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.440 based on your route, and who gets dropped off first 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:13.480 depends on the route. There might be periods of time 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.280 where you're riding on your own and someone gets in. 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.280 You might be riding as a two and someone gets 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.320 out and you carry on on your own the rest 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:22.640 of the way. And they're introducing this and limited markets 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:25.920 including l A, New York City, San Francisco. In fact, 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.960 we have this tweet from somebody that noticed the news 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:33.960 in New York City channeling their inner pandemic experience or 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.359 pre pandemic experience, just with a bit of batter excited 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.399 for a summer of chaotic encounters in the back of 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:44.080 a Nissan Ultimate. We can all relate. I remember uberpool 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.439 and other shared right services pre pandemic right, and you 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.880 could have three or four people in the car. You're 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.640 all in the back like somebody's got a briefcase and umbrella, 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:56.159 a dog. Whatever is going on. This is kind of different, 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:58.960 but it's going to be interesting to see the psychology 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.840 of how users act to this after the pandemic. I mean, 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:03.560 you look at the share performance right of Uber and 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.240 Lift since June when things started to recover in the 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.199 share price after the initial shock of the pandemic, and 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:13.480 we're still down significantly. Right. Uber's story has been one 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:17.159 where they've diversified the business with Uber eats Lift. You know, 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.040 we've been debating in the recent weeks and quarters about 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.600 whether the demand is really there, how much both of 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.880 these companies will have to do to incentivized riders and drivers, 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:28.800 and how that will weigh on the bomb line. Interesting 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.240 in the case of Uber x share, if you offer 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.040 that you get an immediate discount on your ride, which 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.159 could be a way to lure people in. Right, and 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.760 you see Uber and Left just trading in tandem. Really there, 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.520