1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From the heart of where Innovation, money and power COLLI 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: Emily Jay I'm Emily Check in San Francisco, and this 4 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Elon 5 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Musk tells Bloomberg there are still unresolved matters when it 6 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: comes to his bid for Twitter, and that he believes 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: a recession is likely. We'll bring you our conversation with 8 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: the Tesla CEO from the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha, 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: plus the first for Apple workers at a retail store 10 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: in Maryland vote to unionize. We'll talk to the former 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: chair of the National Labor Relations Board about whether the 12 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: iPhone maker should brace for a wave of union votes 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: at stores around the world, and monetizing meta how the 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: company is shifting priorities and its algorithms in an effort 15 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: to chase TikTok. We will get to all of that 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: in a moment, but first, U stocks rebounding after last 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: week's route eraised nearly two trillion dollars from the SMP 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: five hundred blueis Katie Gray felt here to walk us 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: through the day and how tech played in it. Katie 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: take it away. Well, Emily, was a big broad rally today. 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: You had both the SMP five hundred and the NAZAC 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: one hundred fishing two and a half percent higher. That 23 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: was even though you did seal yields continue to climb. 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,919 Speaker 1: If you look at the tenure treasure yield fishing about 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,919 Speaker 1: five basis points higher today, but still volatility taking a breather. 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: You're looking at the vix. They're breaking below thirty at 27 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: one point, finishing a little bit above thirty, but still 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: seeing some of the volatility exit the market. As we 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: saw stocks rebound today and within that rally, two stocks 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: caught my eye Tesla and Twitter. Of course, like you said, 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: we heard from Elon Musk in conversation with Bloomberg News 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: editor in chief John Michael Swaite. This was an interesting 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: so on the Twitter front, you heard Musk, like you said, Emily, 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: say that there's still a few unresolved matters with the 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Twitter deal, leaving a few question marks. There still Twitter 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: shares finishing three percent higher. Tesla even more so, even 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: though we heard must say that layoffs have started at Tesla, 38 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: that the company plans to layoff ten percent of its 39 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: salaried workforce. Over the next three months. Still you saw 40 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: a big rally in Tesla shares, finishing over nine percent higher. 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: But if you zoom out away from just today's rally, 42 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: what's interesting is that we know that tech has had 43 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: a really tough time this year. If you look at 44 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: the SMP five hundreds top ten largest tech companies, they're 45 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: down about thirty percent so far this year. But cracks 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: are starting to show up outside of tech too, And 47 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: you're looking at the top ten largest non tech companies 48 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: in the SMP five hundred, that's the white line you 49 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: can see now down over two percent, Emily. So we'll 50 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: see if this rally that we saw at least today 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: can sustain itself as other areas of the market begin 52 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: to come under a little bit of pressure. Here all right, Katie, 53 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: thanks for that. I want to take a look at 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: the crypto markets now and this weekend's bitcoin drama downs 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: and some up spoilstering hope for some relief from the 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: crypto winter. Bloomberg Shnale Boss here to break it all 57 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: down socanally. Is it gonna keep up? Well, it's already 58 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: starting to slow down. We are still seeing a lift 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: in bitcoin, Emily, but remember Sunday brought you a more 60 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: than fifteen percent lift in bitcoin prices. Now you're looking 61 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: at about a two percent rise in the last twenty 62 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: four hours. Earlier today it was about five percent. So 63 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: that shows you that that the steam is starting to 64 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: slow down a little bit. But you are still seeing 65 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: still a rise. So yes, Bitcoin higher, hovering above a 66 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: twenty thousand. Let's take a look also here at ethereum, 67 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: because like bitcoin got a massive rise on Sunday, even 68 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: bigger jump than Bitcoin, but you are seeing that rise 69 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: start to slow down significantly now only up about two 70 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: tenths of one percent. Still, you do see ethereum giving 71 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,839 Speaker 1: some life back to the n f T market as well. 72 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: You're seeing an n f T indecks rise once again. 73 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: And look at these volumes up quite a bit when 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: you look at the largest market places, look at open Sea, 75 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: it's actually up much more than that right now in 76 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: terms of volumes. Looks rare volumes are also higher in 77 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours. And interesting magic even yes, 78 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: the volumes are down over the most recent period, but today, 79 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: just today they announced a funding round that had their 80 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: valuation announced as surging tenfolds, and so you are seeing 81 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: the n f T market come to life, just as 82 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: people gather at NYC n f T. There's a lot 83 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: of excitement around what the future brings. Despite the SCRIPTO 84 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: Winter Shinali, thanks for that. We've got the co founder 85 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: of Magic Eating coming up with us later in the show. 86 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: You'll be back for that meantime. Elon Musk commented on 87 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: everything from Twitter to the markets to Tesla in a 88 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: wide ranging interview with Bloomberg's editor in chief John michel 89 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: Sweet at the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha. But anyone 90 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: hoping to hear him commit to his deal to buy 91 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: Twitter would be disappointed. Take a listen of what do 92 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: you had to say about that and more? There are still, 93 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: um a few unresolved matters. You've You've probably read about 94 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: the question as to whether the number of fake and 95 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: spam users on the system is less than five percent 96 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: as Twitter claims, which I think is probably not most 97 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: people's experience on we're using Twitter. UM So we're still 98 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: awaiting resolution on that matter. UM. And that that is 99 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: a very significant matter. UM So we're awaiting resolution on that. Um. 100 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: And then of course there is the question of will 101 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: the dead portion of the round come together, and then 102 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: will the share holders vote in favor? So I think 103 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: those are the three things that um standard. Uh, you 104 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: know if that needs to be resolved before the transaction 105 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: can complete. What about the general state of the economy? 106 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: Does that weigh on you when you think about this? 107 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,119 Speaker 1: I mean, just described it. You have a super bad 108 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: feeling about the economy. Are you still in that position? 109 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: I just said to you earlier Joe Biden has just 110 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: come out and said that a recession in America is 111 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: not inevitable. How do you feel about the economy? Well, 112 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: I think a recession is inevitable at some point. As 113 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: to whether there is a reception in the near term, 114 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: I think that is more likely than not. Certainly isn't. 115 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: It's not a certainty, but it appears more likelier than that. 116 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: Can you set the record straight on one thing, which 117 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: is this issue about the layoffs? I think you said 118 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: initially that Tesla ten percent of the workforce would be cut, 119 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: then ten percent of salary would be cut, then salaried 120 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: would stay fl flat and overall headcamp would go up. 121 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: What what what is the number? I know there's already 122 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: I think being a lawsuit about the ten percent? Is 123 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: ten percent. The goal to reduce the workforce or what 124 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: is the number that we should think about all that 125 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: you're planning. Yes, so it TESLA is reducing the salary 126 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: workforce are roughly ten percent over the next probably three 127 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: months or so. UM. The UH we expect to grow 128 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: out our hourly workforce. Act quite clear that we expected 129 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: to grow our own hourly workforce, but we uh, we 130 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: grew very fast on the on the salary side, UM, 131 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: and we grew a little too fast in some areas, 132 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: and so it requires reduction in the salary workforce. And 133 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: we're about two thirds hourly and one third salary. So 134 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: I guess technically attempts at reduction in the salary workforce 135 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: is only probably a three three and a half a 136 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: cent reduction in total headcount. TESLA CEO Elon Musk. They're 137 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: speaking with Bloomberg editor in chief John Michael Weight from 138 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: the Qatar Economic Forum in Doha. I want to break 139 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: some of that down with our own at Ludlow. Let's 140 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: start on Tesla since that's where they ended. What's the 141 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: significance of what we learned right there? Yeah, I think 142 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: that the main takeaway and what he goes on to 143 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: say is that demand is really strong, that they have 144 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: a really long wait list for their vehicles, and he 145 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: talked about how they need to build more factories quicker. 146 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: And the point he was making that piece of tape 147 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,239 Speaker 1: is that they are reducing ten percent of salary staff. 148 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: The salary staff is only a third of the workforce, 149 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: so it kind of nets out at a three to 150 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: three and a half percent reduction of headcount globally and 151 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: tests a kind of ballooned right over the last few years, 152 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand employees. They're kind of trimming back in 153 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: some areas, according to Mask and the focusing on priority, 154 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: which is people that actually build stuff, the cars, the 155 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: battery packs around the world. Talking about other people that 156 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: are building stuff. The employees at Twitter probably didn't get 157 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: an answer one way or another whether or not he's 158 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: going to go through with the deal. You know, it 159 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: was it was like recent appearances by Ask. He did 160 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: not explicitly state that he is committed to the deal 161 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: as its outlined twenty cents to share. You know, he 162 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: kind of went through the motions and he gave this 163 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: caveat that he was trying to do deposition minimization. He 164 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: didn't want to get into legal trouble because it's appending deal, 165 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: but still problems with bots. Still need to shareholder vote 166 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: to make this happen. We keep forgetting that. And the 167 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: debt real quick reference of debt thirteen billion dollars a 168 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: debt committed by banks, and he seemed to suggest that 169 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: that too is not solid. I wonder how much it 170 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: doesn't help that he thinks a recession is likely at 171 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: some point and Twitter, along with the rest of the markets, 172 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: has taken a turn. Yeah, continuation of his thoughts right. 173 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: He said previously as a super bad feeling about the economy, 174 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: referencing internal memo, and he said that, you know, a 175 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: recession is kind of going to happen at some point. 176 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: The economy is cyclical. That makes sense. But is it 177 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: going to happen in the near term? He said, more 178 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: likely than not. Twitter's market cap twenty nine billion dollars. Yes. 179 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: At the end of this trading session, he did talk 180 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: about DOJ and we had some interesting commentary there along 181 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: with his support for cryptocurrencies. So those coins really interesting. 182 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: He clarified, first of all, he's not suggesting that people 183 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: go out and invest in cryptocurrencies. That was part of 184 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: the question that was put to him, he said, I'm 185 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: not saying that. He said that he went across the 186 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: factory floors a Tesla SpaceX and he has workers, you know, engineers, 187 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: all kinds of people in the workforce saying to him, 188 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: we're invested in doge coin. Can you support it? And 189 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: he says that's his rationale for supporting it, And of 190 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: course he's bought dogecoin himself. You can buy test the 191 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: merchandise and not vehicles, but merchandise using doged coin. So 192 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: he seems to be suggesting that his support is because 193 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: he has a wide network of employees that also support 194 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency UM and he kind of made the bitcoin side 195 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: of things with TESSAs Holdings being a very small, inconsequential 196 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: part of the balance sheet. Interesting, a little bit more 197 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: meat on the bones there at Bludlow. Thank you for 198 00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: your analysis. That's the sound of Apple workers in Tosa 199 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore, which just became the 200 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: first Apple retail store in the country to unionize. Store 201 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: employees voted overwhelming Lady unionized to thirty three, and this 202 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: is likely just the beginning, as more stores are expected 203 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: to organize around the world. In recent months, we've seen 204 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: more and more workers at tech companies unionized, But with 205 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: the tightening labor market and the economy turning down, how 206 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: much influence can they have for more? I'm joined by 207 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: William Gould the fourth. He is the former chairman of 208 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: the National Labor Relations Board, a scholar on labor law 209 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: at Stanford Law School, and author of the book for 210 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Labor To Build Upon Wars, Depression and Pandemic. William, thank 211 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. So look, the vote 212 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: wasn't even close. What does that tell you about the 213 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: chances that this is going to happen at many more 214 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: Apple stores? Well, I think it's likely that it will 215 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: happen at many more stores. We don't know really how many, 216 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: uh it's likely to be, but clearly something is happening. 217 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: We've been talking for a long time about the unrelenting 218 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: decline of organized labor and the absence of organized labor 219 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: from tech altogether. That's beginning to change a bit. How 220 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: much we don't know. I think there are a number 221 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: of factors and issues which have made this possible. But 222 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: there's no doubt about the fact that something is happening, 223 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: and it's quite feasible possible that it will happen elsewhere 224 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: there and another companies. Apple has said in a statement 225 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: about the possibility of this happening in the past, We're 226 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: fortunate to have incredible retail team members, and we deeply 227 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: value everything they bring to Apple. We're pleased to offer 228 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: very strong compensation and benefits for full time and part 229 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: time employees, including healthcare, tuition reimbursement, new parental leave, paid 230 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: family leave, annual stock grants, and many other benefits. You know, 231 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: how do I think the benefits that Apple, which is 232 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: to be fair, one of the wealthiest companies in the world, 233 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: compared to what workers in unions elsewhere receive, you would 234 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: think they'd be a step above the rest. Oh, there 235 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: are a step above the unionized sector of the economy, 236 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: but there's certainly a step above a number of them. 237 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: I think that probably UH the impetus for this comes 238 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,359 Speaker 1: from a desire of workers to to shape these employment 239 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: conditions with the employer, not to have them unilaterally imposed 240 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: upon them, and UH to to address issues like scheduling, 241 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: like safety issues. And we've seen in this period of inflation, 242 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: a decline in real wages. I think all of these 243 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: issues a confluence of these issues and and the circumstances 244 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: that have emerged in this period of uncertainty. I talk 245 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: about wars and de Russian and pandemic in my book, 246 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: and uh, it's a period of uncertainty where workers are 247 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: frequently I'm more likely to look to unions and some 248 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: kind of protective mechanism and some kind of participatory mechanism 249 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: than they otherwise would now. Amazon, of course, has been 250 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: facing unionization efforts of its own at warehouses, a vote 251 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: in Staten Island, for example, to unionize. I recently sat 252 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: down with Amazon CEO Andy Jassy and asked for his 253 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: response to these efforts. Take a listen to what he 254 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: had to say. We happen to think they're better off 255 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: without a union for a number of reasons, including the 256 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: fact that you know, it's it's much harder when you 257 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: have a union to have a direct relationship with your 258 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: manager and to get things done quickly. Amazon's labor union 259 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: interestingly filed a charge over those remarks that he made 260 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: to me. I'm curious what you see is the parallels 261 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: between Apple and Amazon and what the difference between a 262 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: wave of tech union unizations, how how that compares to 263 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: the history of unions in this country. Well, there there 264 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: have been uh waves of of trade union movement at 265 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: various points. UH. The Great Depression, World War two are 266 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: some of the most recent illustrations. UH, when workers are 267 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: don't know really what's uh what lies ahead. UM, there's 268 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: this idea that we can just sit down and work 269 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: things out together. Is fine so long as the worker 270 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: really has a say in it. And I think that 271 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: the what the workers are saying through UH. These initiatives 272 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: in Tech and Amazon Amazons are very formidable effort because 273 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: there's so many employees that you have to organize in 274 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: one uh and one swoop. Uh. You know, with the 275 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: the Staten Island being approximately eight thousand workers, that's a 276 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: tough thing for for union to do. And they were 277 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: able to do it effectively in part because they were 278 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: able to uh. It was a it was an independent 279 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: ground swell. Though the workers came to the union. Um, 280 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: the union is not coming to the workers. And that's 281 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: the way it's been in every period of great union growth. 282 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: I don't know that this is going to be a 283 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: great period of union growth. I think we're in early days. 284 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: So what do you think these tech companies Apple, Amazon 285 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: at Teter should prepare for How do you see this 286 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: playing out? Are they just going to have to pay 287 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: these employees a lot more, give them much better benefits? 288 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: What does it look like on the other side. I 289 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: think the big thing is the two. It's not simply 290 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: a matter of benefits. It's a matter of UH worker involvement, 291 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: worker participation UM in determining schedule, in UH input into 292 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: safety issues which have become so important in this pandemic 293 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: era in a number of contexts, and UH and they're 294 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: gonna have to in some instances, UH really come through 295 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: with money for workers who, as I said, see their 296 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: real wages declining for reasons that are totally beyond their control. 297 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: And it seems at the present to anybody's control. All right, well, 298 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: certainly very long chapter yet to be written here, William Gould, 299 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: former Chair of the National Labored Relations Bards Stifford Law professor, 300 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: really appreciate having your perspective here today on the show 301 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: Coming up, changes are coming to metas it shifts its 302 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: algorithm to bring more creators to the platform, creators you 303 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: may not have heard of before and expand into the metaverse. 304 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: Will explain it all next, Mr Bloomberg. Meta has big 305 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: plans for creators as it looks for ways to continue 306 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: to expand, especially in the metaverse. Mark Zuckerberg has announced 307 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: new ways for creators to make money, including through n 308 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: f t s, reels, and even from paid online events 309 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: and subscriptions. On top of trying to lore more creators 310 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: to better compete with TikTok, Meta is also shifting its algorithm. 311 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 1: Since the invention of Facebook's news feed, the company has 312 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: been focused on delivering content that it knows users want 313 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: to see. However, after more than a decade, it's becoming 314 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: clear some users need a little more to stay engaged. 315 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: The success of TikTok has unearthed a new kind of 316 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: algo magic, giving people content they didn't even know they 317 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: wanted to see. This is why creators with little followings 318 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: have been being able to gain massive traction on TikTok, 319 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: but less so on metas platforms. Now, Mark Zuckerber wants 320 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: to change all that. For more on all this, I'm 321 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: joined by Bloomberg's tech editor Sarah Fryar So talk to 322 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: us about what Meta a k a. Facebook is doing 323 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: here and if it's gonna work. It's really a big 324 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: bet to focus on showing people content from people they 325 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: don't already follow, that they haven't already expressed interest in, 326 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: in the hopes of helping those people build a following 327 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: as creators. But it's really risky because it just flies 328 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: in the face of all of the curation you've done 329 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: of your feed, who you decide, who you want to follow, 330 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: who you're friends with, etcetera. Um metas deciding that it 331 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: thinks it has something to show you that might be better. Uh, 332 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: and it might or might not work. So it's a 333 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,239 Speaker 1: big moment of experimentation. They're really betting the company on 334 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: this because if they can't make money um from this pivot, 335 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: then you won't be able to really fund the metaverse, 336 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: and they won't have the creator relationships that they need 337 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: take into the metaverse eventually. How A creators looking at 338 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: the differences between a TikTok and a Facebook or on Instagram, Well, 339 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: creators have their audiences on on Instagram that they where 340 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: they really have this like back and forth relationship. Um, 341 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: there's it's easier to connect in some ways on Instagram 342 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: that it is on TikTok, But TikTok is is really 343 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: offering people an opportunity for more followings, and is considered 344 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: the easier place to become famous overnight compared to Instagram, 345 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: which is already kind of established. And and Facebook is 346 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: simply not top of mind for young people anymore. And 347 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: that's another thing that the company really needs to change. 348 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: So they're leaning on Instagram, and they're also leaning on 349 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: changes to Facebook itself that are going to help draw 350 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: in young people and make them more entertainment destinations than 351 00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: simple social networks. UM, that's all trying to compete with TikTok. However, 352 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: you know this, this is what they really need to 353 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: do to stay relevant. And if it doesn't work, UM, 354 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: then they're going to have have um potentially alienated from 355 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: people who have depended on the platforms working the way 356 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: they already do. Fascinating a big bet. Indeed, we'll be 357 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: watching to see how that one plays out. Bloomberg's certifire 358 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: our tech editor, and also the book about Instagram, No Filter. 359 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Chang 360 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Time now for some tech news you 361 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: might have missed. Uber is bringing back its shared ride 362 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: service for the first time since the pandemic it's now 363 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: called Uber x share instead of Uberpool, joining Lift, which 364 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: reactivated car pool services in some markets. Back in May, 365 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's at Bloodlow here with the details and what do 366 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: we know. Yeah, it's interesting. So if you choose to 367 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: do Uber x share, you get partnered with the co writer, 368 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: so it's just you and one other person. And Uber 369 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: says that uses its algorithms to calculate your co writer 370 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: based on your route, and who gets dropped off first 371 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: depends on the route. There might be periods of time 372 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: where you're riding on your own and someone gets in. 373 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: You might be riding as a two and someone gets 374 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: out and you carry on on your own the rest 375 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: of the way. And they're introducing this and limited markets 376 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: including l A, New York City, San Francisco. In fact, 377 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: we have this tweet from somebody that noticed the news 378 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: in New York City channeling their inner pandemic experience or 379 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: pre pandemic experience, just with a bit of batter excited 380 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: for a summer of chaotic encounters in the back of 381 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: a Nissan Ultimate. We can all relate. I remember uberpool 382 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: and other shared right services pre pandemic right, and you 383 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: could have three or four people in the car. You're 384 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: all in the back like somebody's got a briefcase and umbrella, 385 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: a dog. Whatever is going on. This is kind of different, 386 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: but it's going to be interesting to see the psychology 387 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: of how users act to this after the pandemic. I mean, 388 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: you look at the share performance right of Uber and 389 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: Lift since June when things started to recover in the 390 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: share price after the initial shock of the pandemic, and 391 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: we're still down significantly. Right. Uber's story has been one 392 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: where they've diversified the business with Uber eats Lift. You know, 393 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: we've been debating in the recent weeks and quarters about 394 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: whether the demand is really there, how much both of 395 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: these companies will have to do to incentivized riders and drivers, 396 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: and how that will weigh on the bomb line. Interesting 397 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: in the case of Uber x share, if you offer 398 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: that you get an immediate discount on your ride, which 399 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: could be a way to lure people in. Right, and 400 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: you see Uber and Left just trading in tandem. Really there, 401 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: I gotta ask why why did they change the name? 402 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: I mean, Uber x share doesn't just doesn't have the 403 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: same ring as uberpool. Yeah, I lact songs to this 404 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: as well. So what Uber saying their blog post is 405 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: that after the pandemic shut down shared rides in they 406 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: did a complete revamp. Right. They did pilots around the 407 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: world in different markets. They redesigned the feature. And this 408 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: is the core principle, Right, it's not really a pool 409 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: of people. It's a co sharing ride that it's you 410 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: and one other person, and it's limited. I'd also point 411 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: out that there's there's no mask requirement, at least here 412 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, right, And Uber is saying that it's 413 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: at the comfort level of riders whether they wear a mask. 414 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: But that's the key point. It's just one and another, 415 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: not a big pool of riders like uberpool. And I 416 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: think that's kind of the mainstay of why they've changed 417 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: the name. Right. I can only imagine the awkward masks 418 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: now mask conversation. It's okay at ludlow, thank you. Following 419 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: the recent collapse in token prices, one crypto lender is 420 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: covering its spaces. Block five has asked for f t 421 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: X as help to get more cash, with a two 422 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: million dollar revolving credit facility. To be precise, this to 423 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: avoid the same fate that other lenders have faced, like 424 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: Celsius and Babble, which froze withdrawals on their platforms. Here 425 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: to break it all down, our crypto contributor Shinnali. Boss, 426 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: you scratch your back, I'll scratch mine, I guess. And 427 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: there's some deals that come from a position of weakness 428 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: and some from a position of strength and all that. Remember, 429 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: as you said, some of the rivals to block By 430 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: had paused withdrawals, and now you have a block By 431 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: after also recently acknowledging that I had to liquidated a 432 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: large client taking some funds from f t X. Remember 433 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: when you look at why why this happened, you have 434 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: spf Sam Bankman freed saying that sometimes leadership means acting decisively, 435 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: and that's what block By did, removing troublesome counterparties before 436 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: they became a problem and adding cash before it was necessary. 437 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Remember Sam Bankman Freeze Alimated Research also had extended credit 438 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: to Voyage or Digital as well as a safeguard for 439 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: client assets. In light of this a very volatile crypto 440 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: market environment. And you know, you look at what people 441 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: are saying about the whole thing. Is Sam bank been freed? 442 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: Is f t X the white night here? Uh? You know, 443 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 1: Anthony Scaramugi told Bloomberg it makes him the JP Morgan 444 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: of the crypto industry and to talk about deals also 445 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: that come from a position of strength. They also announced 446 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: a deal to acquire an f T x c U S, 447 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: a deal to acquire m bed, a clearing firm as 448 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: it looks to expand. Interesting. Okay, so now I stay 449 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: with us. I want to talk now about how the 450 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: world of n f T s will evolve amidst this 451 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: crypto winter. Our next guest Joshan Yin, who is the 452 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: CEO of the n f T startup Magic Eden, which 453 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned earlier in the show and backed 454 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: by Lightspeed Venture Partners and Sequoia joining us. Now, so look, Josan, 455 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: this is the start of n f T n y C. 456 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: I believe last year was a big year for n 457 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: f T s, but we've seen the market quiet down. 458 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: What's the impact of the crypto winter been on the 459 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: n f T market and how do you see that 460 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: playing out? Yeah, since, first of all, thanks so much 461 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: for having me, I think, yeah, definitely that has been 462 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: a broader downtown and macro impact recently, I think from 463 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: our point of view with Magic Eaton though it's been 464 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: the last few months has been going from strength to strength. 465 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: Um So, we are one of the fastest growing marketplaces 466 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: in the world. We are about market share on Salana 467 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: we uh and May actually was the largest ever month 468 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: for us, so it's been about a ten x growth 469 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: from the last time we raised. So I think from 470 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: our point of view, we still see pretty significant demand 471 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: from creators as well as end users to come and 472 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: interact with and discovery f T s. And you know, 473 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: the way we think about it is it's a long 474 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: term time horizon here. We we sort of measure success 475 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: on a multi year cycle and you know, ups and 476 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: downs are part and parcel with crypto. So we're here 477 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: for the long haul and super excited to be announcing 478 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: this today. How is Magic Eating different from other n 479 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: f T marketplaces like open Sea. Yeah, great question. This 480 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: comes up a lot actually, and the reason we started 481 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: Magic Eating was it was very intentional. Um So for us, 482 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: like we consider ourselves a very very community centric and 483 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: and deeply create a focused marketplace. Um what does that 484 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: mean exactly? It means that this permeates everything that we do. 485 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: So for example, one of the earliest products that we 486 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: built was actually a launch pad, which is an end 487 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: to end create a create a tool, and create a 488 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: service that helps create as launch n f T Collections UM. Secondly, 489 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: we actually partner with Collections through the entire journey, so 490 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: not just at launch, but through the end to end 491 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: experience where they may want to build a customer embedded marketplace, 492 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: we're also a partner for that. UM. And then on 493 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: the community side, I really think that it's important to 494 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: consider marketplaces is more than just the point of sale, 495 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: So we actually want to work with communities to to 496 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: actually be there around the entire discovery journey, whether it's 497 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, analytics, whether it's research, whether it's actually the 498 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: point of sale. We want to be there. So I 499 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: think from our point of view, we're really excited to 500 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: continue building for the future UM and for us UM 501 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: that means you know, continuing to expand the team, continuing 502 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: to grow the line of docks, so we're super excited 503 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: about that. So you made a very specific decision to 504 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: be a Salona and f T market place, and I'm 505 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: really curious, you know, find faster speeds, lower transaction costs, 506 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: but also real outages. So what's the trade off here 507 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: and what are some of the things that are going 508 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: to need to be worked through to make this a 509 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: viable solution. Yeah, for sure. So it's obviously still very early, 510 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: and I think the tradeoff here was going with Salana 511 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: is that it's a it's a newer chain, right, so 512 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: they're still working through a lot of the growing pains, 513 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: and as much as we have grown over the last 514 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: nine months, which has been pretty insane, they are experiencing 515 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: something similar. But we have obviously huge faith in what 516 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: they're doing, and the decision to launch there was very 517 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: intentional because the cost of experimentation is lower when the 518 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: when when transactions are cheaper, and for us, that means 519 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: more creatives, more end users who are willing to come 520 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: and try n f T s for the first time, 521 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully that means that will continue to 522 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: grow over the long term, and we want to be 523 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: here as a part of that. I'm wondering about n 524 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: f T pricing also here, because you've seen things self 525 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: for extraordinary amounts in the last year, millions and millions 526 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: of dollars, and some of those same assets are now 527 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: trading for a lot less. Uh, And so what is 528 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: a normal price here? What where does the markets start 529 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: to stabilize, what is the average price of an n 530 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: f T. It's really hard to say. I wish I 531 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: could answer that for you, but I think overall we 532 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: we definitely see strong demand still for n f T 533 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: s um you know, effectively. I think about n f 534 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: T s in a really similar way in terms of 535 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: the market cycle to where fungible tokens where four or 536 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: five years ago. So it's okay to talk about prices 537 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: up down sideways. Ultimately, what matters is like, look at 538 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: the trajectory of the growth. Fungible tokens became became a 539 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: trillion dollar market, right and n f T s, I think, 540 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: are a much more applicable technology to many, many things 541 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: across the spectrum of culture. So regardless of where we 542 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: see the price end up, I think there's a lot 543 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: to build. Josh and I have to ask you about 544 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: Bill Gates's remarks recently about the n f T market. 545 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: He said it's entirely based on the greater full theory, 546 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: and then added odd obviously, expensive digital images of monkeys 547 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: are going to improve the world immensely. With not a 548 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: small dose of sarcasm, what is Bill Gates getting wrong? 549 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: I mean, Bill, come and come and try out Magic Aid, 550 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: and we'd love to have you on the platform. No. 551 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: I think the couple of things that I would call 552 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: out is that, yeah, we're very early in the general 553 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: n FT category and FT ecosystem. Um. Yeah, like profile pictures, 554 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: you know, they may not seem like something that's very 555 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: interesting or very exciting to a lot of people, but 556 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: the reality is that they got very popular, and they're fun, 557 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: they're social. It's at the intersection of culture um, and 558 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: they have permeated a lot of society. I think one 559 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: of the things that we are really excited about is 560 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: enabling more forms of utility for these n f t s. 561 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: So part of this raise is actually going to go 562 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: to what's building out a gaming vertical at Magic Eiden. 563 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: And you know, gaming is an inherently social activity. It's 564 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: where communities already gather, and you can imagine the same 565 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: the same types of behavior where people are buying I 566 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: didn't and skins already that are not crypto related. People 567 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: are going to be doing those things with n f 568 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: t s. And the cool thing about that is that 569 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: it's a it's actually true ownership that's happening here. So 570 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: it's early. I mean, we invite Bill to come on 571 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: and check out Magic Eating, we we'd happily walk him 572 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: through all the all infrastructure. I wondering also if you 573 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: can speak a little to the overall fundraising environment here, 574 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: because you're a rare company that was able to see 575 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: a tenfold surge invaluation since March. Find you right, So 576 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: how hard is it out there to actually raise money? 577 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: What are investors looking for when they're putting their money 578 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: to work. Yeah, I'd say it's it's absolutely tougher right 579 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: now than it was probably two three months ago, for sure. 580 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: But I still think that if you are a really 581 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: high quality team with clarity of thought, clarity of vision, 582 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: strong execution, long term focused investors will still, you know, 583 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: I want to do these deals, and I think Magic 584 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: Eating is a testament to that, where, you know, despite 585 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: a deteriorating market over the last couple of months, our 586 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: numbers have been a strong as ever, and we actually 587 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: had a lot of appetite and interest inbound from both 588 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: our existing investors in the previous round and new investors. 589 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: So there is appetite still to do deals. But I 590 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: think the implication is you need to there's a longer 591 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: dating period, shall we say, right, with a lot of 592 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: teams and investors, and I think that's actually probably healthy 593 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: for the market. So obviously you're optimistic. Paint the picture 594 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: five years out. What does the n f T market 595 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: look like, how much is it worth? What problems is 596 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: it solving? Yeah, I think the n of team market 597 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: will be a trillion dollar market. Going back to the 598 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: point earlier around sort of mimicking the growth of fungible tokens, 599 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: I do believe that n f T s will permeate many, 600 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: many different types of assets. And one of the things 601 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: that we really pumped about is, let's explore the universe 602 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: of gaming n f T s. Let's explore the universe 603 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: of music n f T S. I really don't think 604 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: that it all stops with profile pictures and um, this 605 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: is a very inherently social experience. It's it permeates a 606 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: lot of different things around culture, and you know, hopefully 607 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: this is just the beginning and it spurs a lot 608 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: of other amazing innovation in the n f T space. 609 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: So we're just stick to be a part of it, 610 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: and hopefully we can push the ecosystem forward with a 611 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: lot of other builders out there Josh and CEO of 612 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: Magic Eating and our very own Shinelli Bossa thank you both. 613 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: Coming up the future of work and how to power it. 614 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: Will speak about all that and more with Coral CEO 615 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: Christo Quarrels, who's also got a view on the market 616 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: and lived through her share of downturns. She joins us. Next, 617 00:34:32,239 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. In this week's Teconomics, we bring you 618 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: the story of Coral, a developer of business productivity, graphics 619 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: and operating system solutions that wants to drive the future 620 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: of work and compete against the likes of vm Ware 621 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: and Citrics. Coral CEO Crystal Corals joins me now to 622 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: talk about this vision and more so, how do you 623 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: intend to compete with Citrics, vm Ware, which are to 624 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: be fair giants in the tech space. They definitely are giants. 625 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: If you look at our largest product, it's Parallels, which, 626 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: as many people know, enables you to do such things 627 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: as running Windows on a Mac. But it's more than that. 628 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: So we have the desktop solution that millions of people 629 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: enjoy and love and enable them to do a better job. 630 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: But we also have a server cloud and we just 631 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: bought a company this week that enables us to be 632 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,919 Speaker 1: anywhere so you don't have to download anything. But really 633 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: about a zero trust security way of streaming applications. And 634 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: so we think about the virtualization space. There are the 635 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: big giants like Citrics, m VM where who are really 636 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: serving clients that have five thousand and up consumers. We're 637 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: here to make it easy for every company, every worker, 638 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: and every company to work from wherever they want, be 639 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: at the coffee shop, the sofa, the office in a 640 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: really secure and easy way. You've been around the block, 641 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: Christa at you were the CEO of Open Table. You've 642 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: been through some ups and downs when it comes to 643 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: the markets. How do you see the shift to remote 644 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: work playing out? Is this here for good? Are some 645 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: companies going to regret telling their employees they could work 646 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: from home forever? I think the genieu is clearly out 647 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: of the bottle. If you look at pre pandemic work, 648 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: you know a lot of that came from what it 649 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: was like to come into a factory. It didn't imagine 650 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: a world where zoom and collaboration tools and software really 651 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: enabled people's daily lives. And we believe that when you 652 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: work better, you live better, and people don't going to 653 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: give that up. We've seen that in how people are 654 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: willing to accept a salary decrease for not having to 655 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: come into the office. And I think the companies that 656 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: remain abject about their desire to get people in they 657 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: are going to suffer as it relates to where talent 658 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: wants to go. That's not to say we don't gather. 659 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: It's not to say that we don't get people together. 660 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: But I believe that your personal productivity pod should be 661 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: where you ever you wanted to be, and you should 662 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: be able to connect securely and hopefully use some of 663 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: our products while you do so. So Ellen us calling 664 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: workers back in the office, do you think he's going 665 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: to be on the wrong side of history. I mean, 666 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: could this hurt companies that are forcing employees to come 667 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: back to the office. I think it's all about understanding, 668 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: also what your business is. We have the benefit of 669 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: being what I like to say, we're in the bits 670 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: business and not the Adams business, meaning we ship software. 671 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 1: We don't have a physical product. Obviously, they're delivering a 672 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: large and complex physical product with a supply chain to boot. 673 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: And I think there are times in which he's he 674 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: needs to demonstrate from a cultural standpoint, how those people 675 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: need to come in. I think if you're building software, 676 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: which is our case, we can be more flexible and 677 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: we can lean in and give the knowledge worker not 678 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: just flexibility but freedom, which is ultimately what they're seeking. 679 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: You live through the dot com bust, and I'm curious 680 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: how you think this compares. Do you think a recession 681 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: is inevitable? And if so, is it a big R 682 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: or a little R? Yeah, this is my second down turn, 683 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: and so it's always interesting to see people who have 684 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: just been operating for the last thirteen years and think 685 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: it's fully representative. It does feel to me more like 686 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: the dot com bust, how albeit with much higher interest rates. 687 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: And so I do think is a big art recession. 688 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: Anytime inflation is north of five percent, you're going to 689 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: have a pretty significant challenge out there in the market. 690 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: I think it's a question of how quickly you do 691 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: companies respond. I was at an event the other day 692 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: and somebody said, uh, economics are the new black, and 693 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: I thought it was amusing, because you know, I come 694 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: from the private equity landscape, as we're backed by Ker 695 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: and the unit economics have always been a mainstay of 696 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: our business, and it will need to be so going 697 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: forward for many other companies. So how do you think 698 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: this is going to impact the broader landscape of of 699 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: all of these tech unicorns that have raised money at 700 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: high valuations on top of these huge public tech companies 701 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: that have been enjoying very nice multiples, and you know, 702 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: will they recover well? I think if you need to 703 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: raise capital, that capital got significantly more expensive, you know 704 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 1: to you know, the flat round is the new upround. 705 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: And I think the reality is, you know, how are 706 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: managers employees going to respond in this environment? So when 707 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: the dollar is up, oil is up, and interest rates 708 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: are up, it means equity has to be down. And 709 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: when equity is down, the primary driver of uh tech 710 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: first workers who work for the equity. They get cranky 711 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: and it's getting more challenging and by the way, they 712 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: might be losing a job. And so the whole ecosystem 713 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: is being thrust into this world where the cost of 714 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: capital is such that you cannot grow at any price. 715 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: You've got to grow at a thoughtful, unit economic driven price. 716 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: So how is this all going to impact the war 717 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: for talent? On the one hand, you've had the great 718 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: resignation and workers who are deciding, you know what, I 719 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: just don't want to do this anymore, and I have 720 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: all of these options. Now you see the market contracting 721 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: people don't necessarily have that kind of optionality. There are 722 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: layoffs and hiring freezes happening across the tech industry. How 723 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: do those two balance each other out? I think you 724 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: have to look at which labor market you're in, So 725 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: I would be very concerned if you are in a 726 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: market like San Francisco or New York where you're cost 727 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: of your labor generally is higher than cost of other 728 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: labor out there in the marketplace. I think what it's 729 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: done is created a level playing field for twent across 730 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: not just the United States, but across the globe. And 731 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, we clearly employ UH developer teams outside of 732 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: the United States. We think it's a critical advantage for 733 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: US as an organization. But I think it is a 734 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: great leveling of talent too. It used to be that 735 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: you had to be at a certain location to manage 736 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: and benefit from the ecosystem, and now I think that's 737 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: gone as our tools and our collaboration software enables people 738 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: to truly be effective from any place. So it's a 739 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: great level of her talent. Okay, So if it's a 740 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: great level of her talent, who wins and who loses? 741 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: If you're a San Francisco engineer, it could be probably um. 742 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: But great talent is always always in need. And I 743 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: think what you see in some of these companies who 744 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: have raised exceptionally large rounds, they couldn't even hire their 745 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: you know, according to their hiring plan. Um. But you're 746 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: also going to see those hiring plans get dramatically scaled back. 747 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: I think you know, I talk about management by haiku. 748 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: If you had no bounds, you could do anything, but 749 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: you might not be as creative as you otherwise would 750 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: have been. So how do you manage within seventeen syllables 751 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: and actually still build a great product? And I think 752 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: that's where a lot of people look at the incredible 753 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: companies that get born out of our session because they 754 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: had to be mindful and choosy about where they spent 755 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: their money. Management by haiku, that is a new one 756 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: for me. I will remember Corals, Christopher Corals, thank you 757 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: as always to have you back here on the show. 758 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: And that doesn't for the edition of Bloomberg Technology We're 759 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: gonna be back tomorrow with a number of great guests. 760 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: Slack CEO and co founder Stewart Butterfield will be with 761 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,280 Speaker 1: us along with Shopify president probably finglestoned to talk about 762 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: new features the company is launching. We don't forget to 763 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 1: check out our new podcast as well. Wherever you get 764 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: your podcasts, This is Bloomberg.