Speaker 1: Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the
Speaker 1: podcast that looks at the future and says I Believe
Speaker 1: I can fly. I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Joe McCormick, and
Speaker 1: our other host, Lauren big Obama is not with us today,
Speaker 1: but she will be back next time. So today we're
Speaker 1: gonna be answering a listener request. Wait, whoa what Hey,
Speaker 1: We've got listeners and they request things. They often request things. Well,
Speaker 1: some of the things they request are impossible to talk about, right,
Speaker 1: but we do get we know. We we ask people
Speaker 1: at the end of every single episode if you have suggestions,
Speaker 1: send them in, and some folks do, and this is
Speaker 1: one of them. We're going to talk about a listener request, right.
Speaker 1: So this listener request is from someone calling himself or
Speaker 1: herself through all right. It says, Hey, guys, I've been
Speaker 1: thinking hard on what I'd like to hear as a
Speaker 1: podcast from you guys, and finally it flew in, Like
Speaker 1: Boba fat jet packs, I think it would be interesting
Speaker 1: to hear if we ever will get to jet packs
Speaker 1: and what they will look like, as well as the
Speaker 1: jet packs. And that's in quotes the jet packs we
Speaker 1: have now, thanks your faithful listener, the lightsaber wielding hobbit
Speaker 1: ru It's a lot of mythology going on with Row.
Speaker 1: I like it. Yeah, No, I don't like the cross pollination.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we wanted to really take a look at this.
Speaker 1: We figured this would be a fun one. One of
Speaker 1: the many things we talked about. Whenever there's a discussion
Speaker 1: about the future, someone inevitably says, where's my flying car
Speaker 1: or where's my jet pack? Those two things I think
Speaker 1: end up representing kind of our concept of what the
Speaker 1: future should have incorporated into it more than anything else. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: jet packs show up in a lot of media, of course,
Speaker 1: and we can talk about those in a minute, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to start with sort of the idea of
Speaker 1: jet packs before we get to the reality of ship packs.
Speaker 1: When you imagine the sci fi jet pack, the thing
Speaker 1: people are asking for when they say where's my jet pack,
Speaker 1: where's my jet pack? Where's my jet pack? What is it?
Speaker 1: It's sort of a device that makes you a hummingbird. Sure,
Speaker 1: it's limitless, fully controllable personal flight, so you can zip
Speaker 1: through the air to your destination. At rapid speeds. You
Speaker 1: can take off and land wherever and whenever you want.
Speaker 1: You can hover in place if you need to. You
Speaker 1: can make a quick getaway if you need to. It's
Speaker 1: just total personal freedom of movement, right. And beyond that,
Speaker 1: it's it's as close as we would be able to
Speaker 1: get to flying like a superhero as possible. Right, there's
Speaker 1: no what we wouldn't have a vehicle around us, there's
Speaker 1: no plane or car around us. It is you experiencing
Speaker 1: that credible thrill of flying. And it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that a lot of people have that desire, right,
Speaker 1: the desire to feel as if they are flying through
Speaker 1: the air. And this, I mean, that's the superpower I
Speaker 1: would go with if I couldn't have my other one,
Speaker 1: which is essentially total time control. But yeah, I would
Speaker 1: want to fly through the airline. Well, as we've discussed before,
Speaker 1: I would choose teleportation because proper teleportation can recreate the
Speaker 1: effects of flight and many other things besides. Well, sure,
Speaker 1: but see to me, it's not just the destination, it's
Speaker 1: the journey. How romantic. Well, okay, we know that rockets
Speaker 1: slash jets exist today. We have plenty of them. We
Speaker 1: know how to make them. There are some really smart
Speaker 1: people who are good at designing them to do very
Speaker 1: specific things. And of course backpacks exist, so one plus
Speaker 1: one should equal too. In the theory, you should be
Speaker 1: able to combine them and it should be super easy
Speaker 1: to create something like a jet pack. So where are they?
Speaker 1: Why don't we have them? What's the hold up? So
Speaker 1: the best way I thought to look into this is
Speaker 1: to kind of lay out some rules and kind of
Speaker 1: define some terms, because we're gonna use the word jet
Speaker 1: pack a lot in this episode, but a lot of
Speaker 1: the things we're going to be talking about are not
Speaker 1: technically jets. They are rockets, and there is a difference.
Speaker 1: I knew you'd bring some annoying technicality into this. It's
Speaker 1: important because there are jet packs that are jet packs
Speaker 1: that are jet engines strapped to a person. Let's pursue
Speaker 1: the truth to the fullest extent. Well, what is a jet? Okay?
Speaker 1: So a jet is an engine that takes an air,
Speaker 1: uses a turbine to compress the air, and then pushes
Speaker 1: that compressed air mixture out and mixes it with fuel
Speaker 1: and then it combusts the fuel. So they require oxygen
Speaker 1: to work. That oxygen comes from that air intake at
Speaker 1: the beginning. So a pure jet engine would not work
Speaker 1: in outer space because you wouldn't have the the oxidizer
Speaker 1: to mix with the fuel to allow it to combust. Right,
Speaker 1: It's sort of like I don't a sort of part rocket,
Speaker 1: part vacuum cleaner all thrust. Uh So rockets carry both
Speaker 1: the fuel and the oxidizer, the oxidizing agent together, whatever
Speaker 1: that might be. Right, that's why they can burn in
Speaker 1: deep space. They don't need external oxygen in order to
Speaker 1: work because he's still the atmosphere of any kind, right,
Speaker 1: you still need you still need some sort of oxidizer
Speaker 1: in order to combust. That's one of those things that
Speaker 1: you know, you need heat a an oxidizer in a
Speaker 1: fuel in order for you to create any sort of
Speaker 1: fire or burn something. But if you pack the oxidizer
Speaker 1: with you, then you don't have to pull it in
Speaker 1: from the surrounding environment. So rockets end up having that
Speaker 1: as one of the components on them. Both of them
Speaker 1: work by creating thrust. Yes, uh so there are some
Speaker 1: jet packs that are actually jet packs, they are jets.
Speaker 1: For example, um Eve's ROSSI. He was the guy who
Speaker 1: had the fixed wing jet pack. Uh, he jumped out
Speaker 1: of like a hot air balloon and flew for an
Speaker 1: incredibly long time. We'll talk about him again a little
Speaker 1: bit later in the episode, but his is actually a
Speaker 1: wingsuit that has jet engines on it, so it is
Speaker 1: a jet pack. I think that's super ironic because I've
Speaker 1: seen people online referring to him as quote rocket man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently we can't get the nomenclature right. People wearing rocket
Speaker 1: belts are wearing jet packs, and people using jets are rocketmen. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we're silly people, I guess. So now that
Speaker 1: we've laid out some terminology, let's look at some instances
Speaker 1: of jet packs and pop culture some of the things
Speaker 1: that really promoted this idea of personal transport that allows
Speaker 1: us to fly wherever we want. And there are a
Speaker 1: lot of examples we can point to. One is one
Speaker 1: that Rube mentioned, right, Yeah, now I have it in
Speaker 1: the notes. But did you did you already know where
Speaker 1: Boba Fett first appeared the Star Wars? I did? Are
Speaker 1: you really asking me? The Star Wars Holiday special? Now?
Speaker 1: Right now, we're in the holiday season and you might
Speaker 1: not know this about me, but if you happen to
Speaker 1: see me out somewhere, and you wish me happy holidays.
Speaker 1: Whether you know it or not. The holiday you're referring
Speaker 1: to is Life Day, the day celebrated by the Wookies
Speaker 1: in the Star Wars Holiday Special. You actually watched the
Speaker 1: Star Wars Holiday Special. I've watched it like six or
Speaker 1: seven times. I've sat through all of the interminable sketches,
Speaker 1: two hour long variety show in the worked in the
Speaker 1: context of a Wookie family drama unfolding and without any subtitles. Um.
Speaker 1: I find the Wookie Life Day quite inspiring. Anyway. In
Speaker 1: an animated segment on this holiday special variety show, there
Speaker 1: was the first appearance of Boba Fette, who was the
Speaker 1: bounty hunter we all know and love now, wearing the
Speaker 1: cool Mandalorian armor, sporting the weird gadget kind of weapons.
Speaker 1: He was almost kind of like an outer space James Bond.
Speaker 1: He had lots of little strange gadgets on him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He wrote in on a big old dinosaur like thing too,
Speaker 1: So you know it's you couldn't have gone for more
Speaker 1: dramatic entrance. Now. Of course, most people are familiar with
Speaker 1: Boba Fett from the appearances in the other movies, specifically
Speaker 1: Empire Strikes Back in Return of the Jedi, rhet coond
Speaker 1: into Star Wars um and uh, then you have Django
Speaker 1: Fet in the Clone Wars. But at any rate, that
Speaker 1: jet pack was put to good use in Return of
Speaker 1: the Jedi and bad use as well, because that was
Speaker 1: pretty much what ended up having him get swallowed by
Speaker 1: the star Lac. Yeah. They're having a big fight on
Speaker 1: job of the Hut's barge, and I think he uses
Speaker 1: it to try to jump from one ship to the
Speaker 1: other ends up falling down in the pit. Spoiler alert
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen Return of the Jedi. As I recall,
Speaker 1: Han Solo is holding a long pole arm and he
Speaker 1: hears from Chew Bacca the words Boba fet says, Boba
Speaker 1: Fett Boa fet where and he turns and three stooges
Speaker 1: like hits Boba Fett's jet pack controls, forcing him to
Speaker 1: fly into the star like Yeah. And I think this
Speaker 1: is interesting because surprisingly Boba Fette's jet pack depiction in
Speaker 1: the Return of the Jedi is fairly realistic because it
Speaker 1: only works in a short burst and it's apparently hard
Speaker 1: to control. Yeah. Yeah, we'll go into more of that too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So another famous appearance of a jet pack and pop
Speaker 1: culture is in James Bond. I loved this one when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and I still kind of love
Speaker 1: it now because of how ridiculous and pointless it is,
Speaker 1: Like he could have just there's a scene where Sean
Speaker 1: Connery has just had I think a sword fight with somebody.
Speaker 1: He's just killed. This is a pre credit sequence, so
Speaker 1: it's the it's the the mission that James Bond was
Speaker 1: on before, the one you're actually interested in. And he
Speaker 1: kills the bad guy and the henchman come running and
Speaker 1: so he makes, uh, he tries to make his escape
Speaker 1: from like a giant manner, right, and he uses a
Speaker 1: jet pack. You don't see him putting it on. He
Speaker 1: just kind of suddenly has it on. You see him
Speaker 1: put on the helmet, but not the jet pack, which
Speaker 1: clearly would take several minutes of coordination to get it
Speaker 1: on properly, right, And so he's trying to get off
Speaker 1: the roof of a mansion. I always felt like, wouldn't
Speaker 1: a rope work just as well? Just kind of have
Speaker 1: a rope, But he flies out over the mansion and
Speaker 1: then lands in the street. Next to his Aston Martin
Speaker 1: and then makes us get away, conveniently stowing the jet
Speaker 1: pack into the trunk of the Aston Martin. First. Uh
Speaker 1: so that was pretty exciting. And then of course there's
Speaker 1: The Rocketeer. I never saw it. It's actually a very underrated, fun,
Speaker 1: pulpy kind of movie. The Rocketeer is based off a
Speaker 1: comic book series that came out in the nineteen eighties
Speaker 1: that was meant as a tribute to the old science
Speaker 1: fiction serials of the thirties and forties, So it was
Speaker 1: The Rocketeer itself doesn't date all the way back there,
Speaker 1: that is, when it's set. It's set in the thirties,
Speaker 1: but the actual comic book came out in the eighties,
Speaker 1: and then the movie came out in the nineties, and um,
Speaker 1: again has a superhero who uses a rocket pack too
Speaker 1: fly around. Although this rocket pack is phenomenal because it
Speaker 1: apparently has a nearly infinite supply of fuel. So those
Speaker 1: are the kind of the pop culture ones that I
Speaker 1: think about. I mean, they're obviously there are other ones
Speaker 1: as well, but those are the big ones that jump
Speaker 1: out at me. So we've seen all of this, we
Speaker 1: know people have thought about it. What are some of
Speaker 1: the reasons why jet packs aren't just all over the place,
Speaker 1: and one of the big ones is that, well, it's
Speaker 1: just because the way people are. We're not aerodynamic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't have wings. Yeah, we don't generate lift, and
Speaker 1: we're pretty dense. Yes, all of us, even the lighter side,
Speaker 1: are pretty dense relatively. Yeah, And uh so in order
Speaker 1: for us to fly, we have to be we have
Speaker 1: to use something that's going to generate enough lift to
Speaker 1: counteract the weight that we have. Right, we have to
Speaker 1: be able to generate more upward thrust than we have weight.
Speaker 1: But there's a problem here because it doesn't just have
Speaker 1: to counteract your weight and the Earth's gravity tugging down
Speaker 1: on you. It has to counteract its own weight on
Speaker 1: top of your weight exactly. So whatever jet pack, like,
Speaker 1: if I weigh, you know, eighty pounds and I've got
Speaker 1: a jet pack on that has a hundred eighty pounds thrust,
Speaker 1: well does that if that is the total weight it has,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be getting off the ground because it's
Speaker 1: the jet pack is not it's going to be it's
Speaker 1: you know, that weight, it's going to add to it.
Speaker 1: And plus then you have the fuel. Right, the fuel
Speaker 1: is going to add weight, and in fact, the longer
Speaker 1: you want to fly, the more fuel you have to carry.
Speaker 1: But the more fuel you carry, the heavier your jet
Speaker 1: pack is, and that's it places more limitations. This is
Speaker 1: the same sort of issue we run into when we
Speaker 1: talk about space, the idea that the weight of stuff
Speaker 1: that we're trying to send up into space matters because
Speaker 1: that requires more fuel, and the more fuel you add,
Speaker 1: the more weight you have to the overall space delivery package.
Speaker 1: These are big issues. Also depending on the type of fuel, um,
Speaker 1: it could be fairly dangerous. Not all rocket fuels, uh
Speaker 1: you know friendly stuff. Well, I mean, we we have
Speaker 1: seen tragic cases where rockets explode um. And it depends
Speaker 1: on what kind of fuel you use. Like you said,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's some fuels that are much safer than others.
Speaker 1: And I think typically when you're designing a jet pack,
Speaker 1: you're going to try to tend towards the safest kind
Speaker 1: of fuel you can use. But this puts limitations on
Speaker 1: your design, right. And if you're looking at a lot
Speaker 1: of the jet packs that have come out, specifically the
Speaker 1: ones that follow one particular design, the limits on flight
Speaker 1: times are pretty pretty rough. I mean we're talking like
Speaker 1: thirty seconds of flight, and and a lot of the
Speaker 1: things I read talked about how you need to have
Speaker 1: about ten seconds of that to determine how to land safely.
Speaker 1: So really you've got twenty seconds of lying time followed
Speaker 1: by ten seconds of Oh, I need to find a
Speaker 1: place to set down, so I don't know injure myself,
Speaker 1: um at any rate, those are some of the problems.
Speaker 1: And other one is just that jet packs are not quiet. Nope,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, it's one thing if you are
Speaker 1: a person demonstrating a technology and you've got a big
Speaker 1: group of people around watching you flight through the air.
Speaker 1: It's another if you want to suggest this as an
Speaker 1: actual mass produced means of travel travel, Right, if you're
Speaker 1: imagining this city of the future where everybody walks out
Speaker 1: the front door in the morning, puts on a backpack,
Speaker 1: and then jets off to work, this is going to
Speaker 1: be an incredibly noisy city. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, these
Speaker 1: are rockets or jets. They are not quiet devices. And uh,
Speaker 1: if you watch the footage of these old like tests
Speaker 1: of jet packs, various jet packs, you see a lot
Speaker 1: of people putting their fingers in their because it was
Speaker 1: it was loud, and uh, you know, you just imagine
Speaker 1: a city full of people doing that. First of all,
Speaker 1: the skies would just be roaring constantly, which would be
Speaker 1: kind of tedious. I would think there would have to
Speaker 1: be some kind of citywide service also that you call
Speaker 1: up every time a jet pack flyer crashes on your lawn.
Speaker 1: Do you get them to come collect the corps or
Speaker 1: what do you do? I think you have your corps
Speaker 1: pushing robots, just push them out to the curb. Right,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the amazing future. Everyone's going to
Speaker 1: have a corpse pushing robot. I can buy that. Okay,
Speaker 1: it was a little little dark, but hey, it's the holidays.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the mindset we're into. Okay, I've got
Speaker 1: another big question about this. Though everybody says they want one, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but is anybody actually gonna pay what it would cost
Speaker 1: to make these? I think there there's going to always
Speaker 1: be a very small market for these. But that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a small market. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's ever going to get to a point where it's
Speaker 1: going to require mass production, which means that costs are
Speaker 1: never going to come down, So the price tag of
Speaker 1: these things is going to be very high, so the
Speaker 1: people who can afford them are going to be few
Speaker 1: in number. Right, it seems like people are imagining jet
Speaker 1: packs as a kind of transportation alternative. Instead of taking
Speaker 1: the subway or your car, you take a jet pack.
Speaker 1: What seems more likely to me is that even as
Speaker 1: jet packs become more viable at the consumer level, they're
Speaker 1: still still going to be basically a very expensive recreational device.
Speaker 1: You can only use transportation alternative, right, because you know
Speaker 1: you can't. You know, we have such hard limitations on
Speaker 1: how much fuel you can carry, how far you can
Speaker 1: travel that uh with only a couple of exceptions of
Speaker 1: some proposals that would allow you to travel further but
Speaker 1: would be restrictive in other ways. It just wouldn't be practical.
Speaker 1: So without those practical uses, there's not the funding necessary
Speaker 1: to go into research development. Beyond that, there's not enough
Speaker 1: interest to create a uh an industry around it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got the I will constantly have people say wouldn't
Speaker 1: jet packs be cool? And yeah, but cool isn't a
Speaker 1: good enough and reason to to actually make them. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like lightsaber is actually which we talked about recently.
Speaker 1: It seems really cool, but then can you really think
Speaker 1: of anything a lightsaber can do that you can't do
Speaker 1: with something else that's easier to make? Right now, that
Speaker 1: hasn't stopped us from actually making working jet packs, which
Speaker 1: is different from lightsabers. If you remember our lightsaber episode,
Speaker 1: we essentially said we can't figure out how this would
Speaker 1: ever become a real thing, and then on top of that,
Speaker 1: we couldn't think of a practical application for it, apart
Speaker 1: from Lauren's suggestion that it would allow us to both
Speaker 1: slice and toast bagels at the same time. Um So
Speaker 1: jet packs. However, we've actually got several examples of those
Speaker 1: being made, and some of them are just you know,
Speaker 1: concepts or whatever that were floated out there, no pun intended.
Speaker 1: But I just had a collection of some of the
Speaker 1: fun ones that I thought I talked about, and one
Speaker 1: that is not so so fun, but it's so crazy
Speaker 1: that I had to include it. Did you read all
Speaker 1: of these yet, Joe? Are you talking about the kidnapping? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You read that one? Yeah? Okay, back up to alright,
Speaker 1: August night. That's when Frank R. Paul illustrated the cover
Speaker 1: of Amazing Stories, and it shows a guy wearing a
Speaker 1: jet pack. He's flying over a lady's waving to the
Speaker 1: lady las wig Hi, mr jet pack man, Uh and uh.
Speaker 1: It's one of those early depictions, like one of the
Speaker 1: earliest ones that I've seen of this idea of of
Speaker 1: a jet pack that would allow people to travel on
Speaker 1: their own. As you were saying, Joe in nineteen five,
Speaker 1: this is the sort of legendary thing you have. The
Speaker 1: himmel Schummer. The himmel Stummer was the sky stormer hack
Speaker 1: that was supposedly developed by the Nazis during World War Two,
Speaker 1: and it was supposed to be two pulse jet tubes
Speaker 1: based off of the rocketry that the Nazis were working
Speaker 1: on at the time, one mounted to the back of
Speaker 1: a soldier that would allow for thrust, and one that
Speaker 1: would be on the front of the soldier so that
Speaker 1: would be used for steering um and this was meant
Speaker 1: to allow soldiers to jump over obstacles. This sounds like
Speaker 1: one of those stories. I mean, is there any evidence
Speaker 1: that this actually existed? There was, there was at least
Speaker 1: some There are people out there who would who would
Speaker 1: at least no definitively if elements of this story are true,
Speaker 1: because there are no photographs that have have survived. Assuming
Speaker 1: this thing really did exist, there are no examples of
Speaker 1: the thing that I know of. Supposedly Bell got hold
Speaker 1: of the company Bell. Yeah, Bell Aerospace Labs. They they
Speaker 1: got whole of one of these. Um supposedly, but again,
Speaker 1: unless someone there knows definitively whether that happened or not,
Speaker 1: it's kind of in the realm of legend. There are illustrations,
Speaker 1: but the illustrations are illustrations, they're not photographs. So, however,
Speaker 1: it could be said that the idea had been proposed,
Speaker 1: whether it was ever actually built in any sort of prototype,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Then you have the Hiller vs. One.
Speaker 1: Did you see a picture of one of these? I
Speaker 1: didn't just imagine like a little round platform. It's got
Speaker 1: a railing that goes all the way around. Wait a second, yes,
Speaker 1: I did see this. The the flying platform. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a flying platform. It's actually a ducted fan, so it's
Speaker 1: aducted fans, got a propeller inside it that rotates. That's
Speaker 1: what generates the thrust. It's like as if you could
Speaker 1: stand at the top of a guard tower, but that
Speaker 1: guard tower could raise itself up into the sky and
Speaker 1: come back down it will. Yeah and uh. It was
Speaker 1: built in an nineteen fifties, early nineteen fifties, and again
Speaker 1: not an actual jet pack, more of a flying platform
Speaker 1: and you would steer it by shifting your weight. In fact,
Speaker 1: I watched a film of this so well video on YouTube,
Speaker 1: but it was converted from a film where you see
Speaker 1: the guy like kind of herky jerky making this thing
Speaker 1: move to specific locations. UM. And it was a five
Speaker 1: foot fiberglass round wing that was the ducted fan part
Speaker 1: that you stood on top of. UM and had twin
Speaker 1: counter rotating coaxial propellers inside this ducted fan, so the
Speaker 1: fan part would be under your feet and generating the
Speaker 1: thrust that would allow you to go up into the air.
Speaker 1: But it was somewhat limited. It was never never received
Speaker 1: full funding, so it never went into any kind of production.
Speaker 1: I think they built six of them, and at least
Speaker 1: one of them is on display in a museum right now.
Speaker 1: You control it by shifting your weight. Yeah, So it's
Speaker 1: like the segue of flying vehicles. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's lean forward and that's where you're gonna go lean
Speaker 1: forward too far and bad news. Then you have the
Speaker 1: theicle jump belts. This was also developed in the nineteen fifties. Now,
Speaker 1: these weren't really jet packs. They were meant kind of
Speaker 1: like the the Himmel Stemmer uh, the ones. They were
Speaker 1: meant to help help a soldier like leap over something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a run really fast for a short time. Uh. And
Speaker 1: the company had developed solid fuel rockets, including rockets that
Speaker 1: we would use in an early space program projects like
Speaker 1: Jim and Jim and I and Mercury. Almost a gimin e.
Speaker 1: Well that's all I love astro not say it. They
Speaker 1: call it the Jiminy project. Yeah, Jimini cricket, Jim and
Speaker 1: I Cricket and the Jiminy Project. All right. So then
Speaker 1: the jump belt also had the nickname Grasshopper. Again, it
Speaker 1: wasn't funded beyond some early prototypes faded away. For one thing,
Speaker 1: that loud noise problem. That becomes a real issue in
Speaker 1: military applications because obviously you don't want to give away
Speaker 1: your position to the enemy. And if you're wearing a
Speaker 1: jet strapped to you or a rocket, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: making some noise and you're not hard to find now.
Speaker 1: So then you've got windel More of Bell Aero Systems,
Speaker 1: and this is really where we start looking into jet
Speaker 1: packs seriously. Uh. Windew More created the Bell rocket belt,
Speaker 1: which used hydrogen peroxide as rocket fuel, and that was
Speaker 1: useful because it wasn't explosive and thus was safe for
Speaker 1: a jet pack where to carry around. So you had
Speaker 1: to use kind of a chemical reaction to get the
Speaker 1: propellant to shoot out. Yeah, so it's the The device
Speaker 1: was like a imagine a three tank backpack or the
Speaker 1: tanks on the left and the right have solution of
Speaker 1: hydrogen peroxide in them. The tank in the center has
Speaker 1: nitrogen gas and it not not liquid nitrogen. Nitrogen gas.
Speaker 1: The nitrogen gas pushes that that mixture of hydrogen peroxide
Speaker 1: through a catalyst, and the catalyst makes this chemical reaction
Speaker 1: happen where you end up getting steam. So you get
Speaker 1: water and you get oxygen also heat obviously, and that's
Speaker 1: what the steam is what would provide that thrust through
Speaker 1: It escapes through nozzles, and the nozzles are what allow
Speaker 1: you to get the thrust that would counteract your weight
Speaker 1: and you could fly up into the air. Uh, So
Speaker 1: it worked. He built this thing. He actually tested it
Speaker 1: himself quite a few times on tethered flights and uh
Speaker 1: the design he made had a flight time limit of
Speaker 1: about twenty one seconds. Uh. Now, the first successful untethered
Speaker 1: test flight of the Bell rocket belt was in April
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty one and was piloted by Harold Graham.
Speaker 1: What had happened was a Moore had injured his knee
Speaker 1: and knew that he would not be able to do
Speaker 1: the untethered test flight, although it upset him greatly, so
Speaker 1: he got Harold Graham to do it. This flight lasted
Speaker 1: fourteen seconds UM and hit a top speed of six
Speaker 1: miles per hour and traveled thirty five feet untethered. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm thinking that if I were this test pilot,
Speaker 1: my thought would be holy crap, holy crap, holy crap,
Speaker 1: poly crap, holy crap, pole thankodness Like that would be
Speaker 1: essentially the way my thought process. I wouldn't be worried
Speaker 1: about how far I was going. I'd been thinking my
Speaker 1: feet are no longer on the ground and I've got
Speaker 1: a rocket strapped to my back. Um. So a public
Speaker 1: demonstration went a little bit uh was a little bit
Speaker 1: more spectacular Graham flew for just ten seconds, but he
Speaker 1: flew over a truck at an altitude of about fifteen feet,
Speaker 1: traveled a hundred fifty feet in distance at about ten
Speaker 1: miles per hour. And as they were testing this out,
Speaker 1: they figured out that thing I was talking about, how
Speaker 1: it takes about ten seconds to make sure that you
Speaker 1: can land safely. So if your full flight time is
Speaker 1: twenty one seconds, and ten seconds of that needs to
Speaker 1: be taken up with you figuring out where to land,
Speaker 1: you have very You've got a real limit on how
Speaker 1: far you can go and how high you could go safely. Anyway, Um,
Speaker 1: they actually incorporated a device into this, this jet pack,
Speaker 1: this this rocket belt, in which a little uh speaker
Speaker 1: would start beeping when you had ten seconds of fuel left.
Speaker 1: It would be inside the pilot's helmet. And I remember,
Speaker 1: I think it was I want to say it was
Speaker 1: the Verge that wrote this whole great history. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of of great histories about jet packs out
Speaker 1: there online. The Verge has a fun one. But I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can only imagine that you've got a rocket strap
Speaker 1: to your back, you're flying through the air, You're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how to land. And meanwhile, your your
Speaker 1: helmet is beeping in your ear, Like, there's got to
Speaker 1: be a better way of doing this in a low
Speaker 1: stress and kind of approach. You have nine seconds until death, right.
Speaker 1: So one of the test pilots for this bell rocket belt,
Speaker 1: his name was is Bill Suitor. He actually, if I
Speaker 1: am not mistaken, flew a jet pack into the Olympic
Speaker 1: opening ceremonies in Ur, didn't he He He did. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: also flew the jet pack, or was one of the
Speaker 1: two pilots who flew the jet pack and thunderball. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other one was Gordon Yeager. So they acted as
Speaker 1: sort of stunt pilots for Sean Connery. That's kind of
Speaker 1: cool too. And Bill Suitor actually has has tested lots
Speaker 1: of these kind of devices. Apparently he got a real,
Speaker 1: uh real taste for it. And you know, the story
Speaker 1: is that he was nineteen years old and he went
Speaker 1: to his next door neighbor to see if he could
Speaker 1: get a job. His next door neighbor was Window Moore
Speaker 1: and said, well, you could test some of this stuff,
Speaker 1: and he said, okay, nineteen years old and that's how
Speaker 1: he got started. That's amazing, Yeah, and it's kind of cool.
Speaker 1: So nineteen sixty one we got another interesting entry here
Speaker 1: Robert Corter test flies a jet flying belt. Now this
Speaker 1: was also one that windel Moore worked on before he
Speaker 1: passed passed away in nineteen sixty nine. Uh, this flying
Speaker 1: belt had a w R nineteen fan jet engine from
Speaker 1: Williams International. So this was actually a jet pack. If
Speaker 1: you look at a picture of this, it looks like
Speaker 1: a guy with a jet engine strapped to his back
Speaker 1: and that and with a couple of handles coming out
Speaker 1: and that's it. I mean, it looks like he's just
Speaker 1: wearing a jet engine. Um, so less like a jet
Speaker 1: pack like Boba fette and more like alright, imagine taking
Speaker 1: a jet engine off an aircraft and strapping it to someone.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what this looks like. We've all done
Speaker 1: that at one time or another. You know, we've all
Speaker 1: had are We all have our pasts. So here comes
Speaker 1: the crazy story. And this this is a dark, crazy
Speaker 1: story that we don't even have all the information on,
Speaker 1: but it was one that I thought I needed to
Speaker 1: include because it was just so bizarre. In nineteen two,
Speaker 1: Brad Barker partners with two guys, Joe Wright and Larry
Speaker 1: Stanley to build a new get belt based off of
Speaker 1: Wendell Moore's design, but this one was supposed to have
Speaker 1: lighter components, is supposed to have greater fuel capacity, so
Speaker 1: it was supposed to allow for longer flying times than
Speaker 1: the previous ones. So they even got Bill Suitor to
Speaker 1: come in and test fly the model they built. They
Speaker 1: call it the RB two thousand. Now here's where the
Speaker 1: story gets weird. Barker and Stanley had some sort of disagreement.
Speaker 1: One story I read was that Stanley thought that Barker
Speaker 1: and Wright were, uh, we're conspiring to essentially steal money
Speaker 1: because Stanley was the guy who fronted most of the
Speaker 1: money for the development of this jet pack. And the
Speaker 1: argument got heated and Barker at one point grabbed a
Speaker 1: rubber mallet and started hitting Stanley with it. Uh So
Speaker 1: Stanley press charges. Barker was arrested for assault. He got
Speaker 1: two years probation. Uh. Stanley one ownership of the RB
Speaker 1: two thousand rocket belt. So he goes to claim the
Speaker 1: device from Barker's auto shop and it's not there, and
Speaker 1: neither is Barker. What Yeah, So then later then this
Speaker 1: is taking course over years by the way. Stanley then
Speaker 1: goes to track down Joe Right, the other partner. Joe Wright,
Speaker 1: turns up dead beaten so badly they had to identify
Speaker 1: him from his dental records. Yeah. No, unsolved. They the
Speaker 1: police said, we don't have enough information to to uh
Speaker 1: too to charge any suspect with this crime. Uh. So
Speaker 1: Stanley finally finds Barker and takes him to court and
Speaker 1: wins a ten million dollar reward from the judge, but
Speaker 1: Barker refuses to pay, so Stanley allegedly grabs Barker, shoves
Speaker 1: him in a box, and holds him for eight days
Speaker 1: until Barker manages to escape. Uh. Police then arrested Stanley
Speaker 1: on kidnapping charges. He was sent to life in prison gut,
Speaker 1: I think eight years instead. Uh. And then the kicker
Speaker 1: of this is the RB two thousand jet pack itself
Speaker 1: is lost. No one knows where it is, or at
Speaker 1: least no one's saying did anybody ever actually see it?
Speaker 1: I'm wondering did soon did he? So? Yeah, a really
Speaker 1: weird story. And I tried to follow up on this
Speaker 1: to see what other information I could find, but it
Speaker 1: was pretty much that And it was just crazy. The
Speaker 1: more I read about the more I thought this needs
Speaker 1: to be a movie. Someone needs to make a movie
Speaker 1: about this story, because it's kind of like a Cohen
Speaker 1: Brothers kind of story about the jet pack gone wrong. No,
Speaker 1: I could totally see the Cohen Brothers doing this. But
Speaker 1: at any rate, let's talk about some more updated jet packs. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know that was that was kind of a look
Speaker 1: back through the history of it. But we've actually got
Speaker 1: some examples we can point to today. Yeah. Well, a
Speaker 1: lot of what we've been talking about has been terrestrial.
Speaker 1: Like you're standing on the surface of the Earth and
Speaker 1: you want to fly, you know, because you think that'd
Speaker 1: be cool. Yeah, So you launch off the ground, you
Speaker 1: fly for a eleven seconds or whatever it is, and
Speaker 1: then that you get the message you need to land immediately.
Speaker 1: You do, and it's the thrill of the lifetime. But
Speaker 1: what about in space, where we really do have back
Speaker 1: mounted propulsion systems that are very important for things that
Speaker 1: for example, when astronauts are working outside the International Space Station. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me about this is how infrequently they
Speaker 1: were used. Because I remember seeing, like again in movies,
Speaker 1: even in gravity, the George Clooney character has a backpack
Speaker 1: that allows him to jet around, which he does like
Speaker 1: in a very cavalier style to the point where you're thinking,
Speaker 1: you're wasting a lot of resources, buddy. At any rate, um,
Speaker 1: they actually weren't used that frequently, but they did come
Speaker 1: in very handy. They were created for extra vehicular activities
Speaker 1: or e v a s, the space walks, that kind
Speaker 1: of thing, and an early one was the Manned Maneuvering
Speaker 1: Unit or m m U. I was developed by NASA
Speaker 1: in the nineties for the Space Shuttle missions, and it
Speaker 1: was a descendant of a program that the Air Force
Speaker 1: started called Astronaut Maneuvering Unit. It was something that they
Speaker 1: had built for the Gemini program, but they never got
Speaker 1: a chance to actually use it. The one time they
Speaker 1: were going to test it, uh, the astronaut in charge
Speaker 1: was sweating so profusely just from working in the confines
Speaker 1: of the Gemini capsule that his his helmet was fogging over.
Speaker 1: So they canceled the spacewalk and that was going to
Speaker 1: be the test of the Astronaut Maneuvering Unit. As it
Speaker 1: turns out, they never got a chance to test it.
Speaker 1: But the that did end up evolving more or less
Speaker 1: into the M m U further down the road, so
Speaker 1: it was used in only three Space Shuttle missions. It
Speaker 1: was that was the only time they used it because
Speaker 1: NASA eventually determined that there were other means of either
Speaker 1: securing astronauts to whatever they were working too, so they
Speaker 1: didn't have to worry about floating off into space, or
Speaker 1: they would um use robotics like a robotic arm to
Speaker 1: move things into position rather than someone jetting out there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: referring to those alternative means, I think kind of like
Speaker 1: the James Bond example I gave earlier, this may be
Speaker 1: a situation where a rope is more useful than a
Speaker 1: jet pack. Yeah, exactly. Now, they did develop the Simplified
Speaker 1: AID for e V A Rescue or SAFER, which is
Speaker 1: kind of a slim down version of the m m U.
Speaker 1: It's much smaller, has less fuel in it. It's really
Speaker 1: only there in the case of an emergency. So let's
Speaker 1: say that you're an astronaut and their tether for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: isn't secure. This would allow another restaurant to go retrieve
Speaker 1: the first one before disaster. Right, So it's they do
Speaker 1: have these, but they said this is weird because technology
Speaker 1: we've developed that we hope we never have to use.
Speaker 1: It's it's the thing that you make that you hope
Speaker 1: you never actually have to put into use. As for
Speaker 1: other terrestrial jet packs, there are some other ones we
Speaker 1: can point to with varying levels of success and funding.
Speaker 1: There's one that a company called jet Machines extreme company
Speaker 1: I should say in organization, I guess. They created a
Speaker 1: project called the jet Vest and they claimed it was
Speaker 1: the going to be the world's smallest jet turbine flying belt.
Speaker 1: So this is actually a jet pack, not a rocket belt. Um.
Speaker 1: How long would go three or four minutes, So the
Speaker 1: idea being that it would be much more efficient than
Speaker 1: the hydrogen peroxide based units. Um. They held a kick
Speaker 1: story campaign in two thousand twelve to try and raise
Speaker 1: thirty dollars in funding. And here's the crazy thing. You
Speaker 1: would think people are going to donate millions. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you look at something like the Oculus Rift or
Speaker 1: the Pebble Watch and how many people funded that, and
Speaker 1: you would think, oh, well, jet pack. Clearly that had
Speaker 1: to blow the thirty thou dollar campaign goal out of
Speaker 1: the water. No, it didn't even hit two thousand dollars. Now,
Speaker 1: that was two thousand twelve. Maybe if they had launched
Speaker 1: it a year later or in two thousand and fourteen,
Speaker 1: they might have met with different different amount of success.
Speaker 1: But it did not fund and when I went to
Speaker 1: their website, they had not really updated it since then,
Speaker 1: had still had a link to that Kickstarter campaign, So
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they're still active or not they
Speaker 1: have like a really really bad fundraising video or something
Speaker 1: that's okay, I mean it was it was obviously guys
Speaker 1: who were enthusiasts and engineers, but you know, they weren't
Speaker 1: necessarily on camera hosts or anything. But it was a
Speaker 1: fairly succinct description of what they were trying to accomplish
Speaker 1: and what. You know, how they had even broken out
Speaker 1: where the money was going to go, like they said,
Speaker 1: you know, here's specifically what we want that money for,
Speaker 1: um because we've been this project so far has been
Speaker 1: coming directly from our pockets, and we can't afford to
Speaker 1: keep going without extra money. I guess sometimes it's just
Speaker 1: hard to understand why some projects. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It may have just been that this was one of
Speaker 1: those that didn't get widely enough spread for people to
Speaker 1: support it, or it could be that again, people say
Speaker 1: they want jet packs, but when it comes down to
Speaker 1: putting their money on the line, they don't really want him. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: there's still several companies that do make jet packs, some
Speaker 1: of which you can actually purchase from That include t
Speaker 1: Am Tam. There's also one called go Fast, and there's
Speaker 1: one called Thunderbolt Arrow Systems, among others. Uh. And we
Speaker 1: mentioned Eve's Rossie who used his wing jet pack in
Speaker 1: two thousand six. He leapt out of a hot air
Speaker 1: balloon win to free fall, started up his engines, and
Speaker 1: flew for more than six minutes before activating his parachute
Speaker 1: to land. But he says he doesn't have any plans
Speaker 1: to market the jet pack. He did say he was
Speaker 1: playing on testing it several more times. But like the
Speaker 1: Iron Man suit, right, this one's for me. Um. There's
Speaker 1: also the Martin jet Pack, which is marketed as quote
Speaker 1: the world's first practical jet pack. It's adducted fan approach.
Speaker 1: So this goes back to that that platform I was
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, Yeah, same sort of thing. It uses
Speaker 1: ducted fans and propellers to generate the thrust, a pair
Speaker 1: of them in this case. And um, it's got a
Speaker 1: range of thirty kilometers or thirty minutes flight time, and
Speaker 1: it runs on gasoline as fuel. So because you're you're
Speaker 1: powering a fan, you're not you're not generating thrust using
Speaker 1: a rocket fuel or anything like that. Um. Of course
Speaker 1: gasoline obviously has its own, uh safety issues. But still
Speaker 1: and then there's another type of jet pack that we
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about, and you did a lot of
Speaker 1: the research on this. This was the jet lev Flyer, which,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, is a water powered jet pack. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you've ever been to one of those like super
Speaker 1: popular water resort destinations, you may have seen someone using
Speaker 1: one of these. Obviously, never been to one of these,
Speaker 1: you need to go to Camcoony. Uh I guess if
Speaker 1: a jet ski is a jet this in some sense
Speaker 1: really is a jet pack and it's not certainly not
Speaker 1: a rocket Okay, So picture this. You put on a
Speaker 1: bathing suit and your sun screening, your pool shoes, and
Speaker 1: you get your sunglasses with a little dingle dangle around
Speaker 1: your necks so they don't fall up down in the
Speaker 1: water strap on a backpack. It's got kind of a
Speaker 1: y shaped pipe on your back going up behind your
Speaker 1: head and sort of following the contours of your shoulders,
Speaker 1: and then the ends of the two arms of that
Speaker 1: y shape turned downward towards your feet with two nozzles
Speaker 1: that spray water at an enormous rate. And it looks
Speaker 1: basically like you've got to fire hoses strapped to your
Speaker 1: back spraying toward the ground, okay, and they spray enough
Speaker 1: water with enough force to lift your body up off
Speaker 1: of the surface of the water. There is a disclaimer
Speaker 1: in the promo video I watched that said every time
Speaker 1: it showed somebody like landing on a dock or getting
Speaker 1: off of a dock, and said, doc, takeoff and landing
Speaker 1: are high risk maneuvers, expert training required. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: I would only trust myself to rise up out of
Speaker 1: the water and crash back into it. Um. I've looked
Speaker 1: into this a little bit. There were some other interesting
Speaker 1: things in it, like they you know, the thrust control
Speaker 1: is one thing. The thrust is what determines how high
Speaker 1: up you're gonna go. Obviously you're you're limited because this
Speaker 1: is tethered. It's a tethered system. The water is coming
Speaker 1: from the body of water you are in right well,
Speaker 1: so it is not just uh so it has a
Speaker 1: hose coming out the back of it. And the hose
Speaker 1: doesn't just go into the water, It attaches to a
Speaker 1: large machine that travels around in the water below. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the machine floats on top of the water, and it
Speaker 1: is what It provides the suction for the water and
Speaker 1: the power for the thrust. In other words, all the
Speaker 1: heavy parts, the engine and and things like that are
Speaker 1: located on the surface of the water, which then means
Speaker 1: the jet pack itself doesn't have to have to provide
Speaker 1: that kind of thrust to counteract that weight. That weight
Speaker 1: is already taken care of. It's just floating on the
Speaker 1: water below you. So it has an advantage over other
Speaker 1: jet backs. It doesn't have to carry its engine with it. Now,
Speaker 1: you can't obviously fly beyond the length of that hose
Speaker 1: from the platform, nor would you really want to, I
Speaker 1: don't think, But but it is it does allow you
Speaker 1: to actually fly over the surface of the water. Um,
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool. Uh, you know. I've I've looked
Speaker 1: at it online. I've watched a lot of videos of
Speaker 1: people using this stuff, and I keep thinking I would
Speaker 1: I want to do this, But I have a feeling
Speaker 1: I lack the basic balance to be able to do
Speaker 1: it without becoming a hilarious YouTube video. Well, just don't
Speaker 1: try any of those doc takeoff or landing maneuvers. I
Speaker 1: think I'd be more worried about taking a header right
Speaker 1: into like someone else's boat or something. Right are you
Speaker 1: accidentally go into shallow water land up on the shore.
Speaker 1: So I think it has about a ten meter maximum height,
Speaker 1: And based on their website, it looked like you could
Speaker 1: also you could buy sort of a jet pack add
Speaker 1: on kit for your jet ski, for your existing jet
Speaker 1: ski that would turn your jet ski into the base
Speaker 1: of a jet pack. Pretty cool. Yeah, according to their
Speaker 1: marketing materials quote, you don't only buy a jet pack
Speaker 1: add on kit, you will buy a new way of happiness.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad because all my old ways of happiness
Speaker 1: or uh but yeah, no, this was a fun thing
Speaker 1: to talk about and and you know, I think ultimately
Speaker 1: we have to go back to those early challenges and
Speaker 1: talk about how jet packs. While they are a cool
Speaker 1: idea and they definitely represent this this notion of freedom
Speaker 1: and exhilaration that is very compelling, the jet packs themselves
Speaker 1: are not compelling enough to overcome the massive challenges that
Speaker 1: lie between them and making it a commonplace reality for
Speaker 1: for the average person. Yeah. I think there is just
Speaker 1: not enough real actual consumer demand for this too to
Speaker 1: make them all they could be. Yeah, that's the bottom line.
Speaker 1: There's not enough reason to invest in developing consumer jet packs,
Speaker 1: not even getting to the issue of safety, right, which
Speaker 1: I mean if everybody really did have jet packs, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to live in that place. Yeah. I shared
Speaker 1: a video from the British comedy series that Mitchell and
Speaker 1: web Look, which is a sketch comedy show, and one
Speaker 1: of the sketches they did was a news reporter covering
Speaker 1: the the successful launch of a jet pack company, and
Speaker 1: through the entire interview, you just here and see people
Speaker 1: flying by out of control, like just screaming as they
Speaker 1: careen around, and I think, yeah, you know, that's pretty
Speaker 1: much how I imagine. I'm going to keep in mind
Speaker 1: that if you ever sho these videos of people using
Speaker 1: actual jet packs, essentially they take off from a standing position,
Speaker 1: remain in that standing position as they go up or down,
Speaker 1: move forward or left or right, so you're just you're
Speaker 1: standing up. You're never in that Superman prone position, you know,
Speaker 1: where you can fly horizontally over the ground. You're yeah,
Speaker 1: you would have to have something to counteract. I guess
Speaker 1: you could do it very briefly, right, you would start
Speaker 1: falling immediately because you don't generate lift that way. You know,
Speaker 1: you would have to so in order for you to
Speaker 1: stay up, you have to have the nozzles pointing back
Speaker 1: down towards the ground. And you're not moving that quickly.
Speaker 1: You're not moving very far. You can't go that high,
Speaker 1: at least not without really risking some possible major problems. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: there there are a lot of that's the that's the
Speaker 1: little tagline on the commercial possible major problems I could
Speaker 1: say injury or death, I guess. Uh. And ultimately, you
Speaker 1: never know when you're suit of a jet pack is
Speaker 1: going to get you beaten around the head with a
Speaker 1: rubber mallet. I mean, it's it's got a lot of
Speaker 1: dangers associated with it, something that you wouldn't even imagine
Speaker 1: at first. Well, where I can say that jet packs
Speaker 1: do seem to be very useful is going to be
Speaker 1: in space travel largely. I can see them not just
Speaker 1: for E V A, on the I S S. Like
Speaker 1: in case your tether comes unhooked, you can jet back
Speaker 1: to the to the airlock, but also say on the
Speaker 1: surface of other planets. I can see that, especially maybe
Speaker 1: planets or asteroids that have reduced gravity, where there you
Speaker 1: could get more bang for your buck in terms of
Speaker 1: the fuel you're carrying. Well, sure, especially if you're thinking
Speaker 1: about your your working within the confines of a space
Speaker 1: suit of some sort, which is already going to restrict
Speaker 1: your ability to move freely. So it may mean that
Speaker 1: you need something like that in order for you to
Speaker 1: to navigate the landscape around you. So yeah, I can
Speaker 1: see that being a useful, um, you know, a useful
Speaker 1: tool in those situations, just not your average Joe like
Speaker 1: you heading for work. If I see you head to
Speaker 1: the office wearing a jet pack, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: both impressed and terrified. So just long for you to
Speaker 1: keep in mind, if you want to, I would only
Speaker 1: come to work with one of those water jet packs.
Speaker 1: Just dragging button behind you is just one of those things,
Speaker 1: just dragging on the ground, just that you can hear
Speaker 1: clattering up the steps. Yeah, that might not be the
Speaker 1: best best use of your time and resources, but who
Speaker 1: am I to say so? Guys, that wraps up this
Speaker 1: episode of forward thinking. If you have any suggestions for
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