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Speaker 1: Bad Lebine joining us right now, great timing as the

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Speaker 1: winter meetings are approaching.

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Speaker 2: So that great to have you on.

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Speaker 1: And good to see you again. What I want to do, though,

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Speaker 1: is because the online world really needs to get hooked

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Speaker 1: in from the jump, and I feel like the pressing

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Speaker 1: question that will really bring people in and we'll get

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Speaker 1: to a lot of other things, is what do you

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Speaker 1: think the twins are going to do with Byron Buckston?

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Speaker 1: A guy that you know pretty well as you spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with him. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: he will end up getting traded? And do you think

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Speaker 1: that Byron will wave a no trade clause to a

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Speaker 1: number of teams based on where the team's at Right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm hitting you with something hard to start because I

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Speaker 1: want people to know we're bringing it today.

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Speaker 2: You're playing the aj Perzinski role here. This is the

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Speaker 2: first time I've been on the show with no catchers present.

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Speaker 2: It's quite shocking. I don't know how to respond. It's refreshing, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's refreshing for goodness sake. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Much better looking, much better looking too. We don't hide

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Speaker 3: behind the mask.

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Speaker 2: You know, better beards, that's for sure, fellas Hey, just

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Speaker 2: quick appreciation. I haven't got a chance to spend much

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Speaker 2: time with you guys. Saw you guys play, Kevin absolutely

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Speaker 2: spectacular defender is some of the most highlight reel catches

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen in my career. You made. I remember

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Speaker 2: so many of them, especially in Toronto. Just an absolute

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Speaker 2: pleasure to watch you play with your intensity on defense

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Speaker 2: and Todd, I would say, in a word, freakish in

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Speaker 2: terms of your power, your pull side power. I remember

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Speaker 2: the home run derby you hit and was highlight of

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Speaker 2: my career. You doing that in front of the home

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Speaker 2: crowd was spectacular. But you know, as we enter a

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Speaker 2: free agency and we can talk about that globally, like you,

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Speaker 2: two guys would be coveted right now based upon your

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Speaker 2: skill set. So pleasure to spend some time with you.

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Speaker 2: With regards to Byron, you know, Byron is such a

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Speaker 2: unique player. I think keep in mind, guys, that one

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Speaker 2: of the mentors he had, the captain who preceded him,

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Speaker 2: was Joe Mauer. Joe Maller played his entire career in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: Joe Maher, who I know definitively because we offered to

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Speaker 2: him at the end of his career the chance to

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Speaker 2: go play wherever he wanted to. Derek Falvey myself ownership

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Speaker 2: was very supportive of that. Joe decided to stay in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: You know, he felt a bond to that community. He

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Speaker 2: never wanted to turn his back on that fan base.

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Speaker 2: And I think Byron is wired in some similar fashions.

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Speaker 2: You know, last trade deadline, I think he made a

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Speaker 2: very bold statement to the media in which he said

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Speaker 2: definitively he was not going to be treated he was

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Speaker 2: going to stay with Minnesota. So while he is desirous

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Speaker 2: of winning a championship, I think he primarily would like

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Speaker 2: to do that in Minnesota. So I think the question remains, well,

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Speaker 2: Derek Falvey will now skip for Derek Shelton sit down

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Speaker 2: with him. Will they convince him that they're going to

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Speaker 2: be competitive and competitive soon? And if so, I would

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Speaker 2: expect Byron Buckston will want to be part of that.

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Speaker 2: He's going to want to deliver a championship as best

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Speaker 2: he can to the Minnesota fans. If, however, they say

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Speaker 2: that there are a number of years away, he may

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Speaker 2: start looking elsewhere. But I think he's going to be

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Speaker 2: very specific as to where he wants to look. He

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Speaker 2: is from Baxley, Georgia. I think the chance to get

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Speaker 2: closer to home would be very important to him. Otherwise

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Speaker 2: I would see him staying in a Minnesota Twins Jersey.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Before we get into the specifics of teams and stuff,

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Speaker 3: I always, you know, when I have an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: talk to someone like you, I kind of like to

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Speaker 3: just know kind of what the day to day is

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Speaker 3: like at the winter meeting for someone in your previous position.

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Speaker 3: I attended for the first time last year. I spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of time on the ground floor kind of

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Speaker 3: walking around, but I always like to get a little

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Speaker 3: insight now that I'm done playing. Do you go in

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Speaker 3: with like a checklist in mind? Do you have, like

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Speaker 3: you know, free agents that you want to set up

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Speaker 3: meetings with. As agents call on, you just kind of

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Speaker 3: take us into kind of the day to day and

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Speaker 3: I guess the course of the winter meetings how that

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Speaker 3: kind of shakes out for you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, primarily we want to know if the traveling

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Speaker 2: secretary has good snacks in the suite. I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: kind of the focus of it. Kevin, I would say

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Speaker 2: it's changed dramatically over the course of my career. When

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Speaker 2: I started I was with the Colorado Rockies. Dan O'Dowd

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Speaker 2: was the general manager, and the way it started was

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Speaker 2: I was literally handed a list of all the phone

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Speaker 2: numbers the other general managers. I would call all twenty

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Speaker 2: nine rooms and try to set up one individual meetings

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Speaker 2: where Dan o Daoud and his group could go sit

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Speaker 2: down with them. And so there was a lot more

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Speaker 2: individual engagement with teams. We would actually literally go visit

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Speaker 2: with at least twenty, if not all twenty nine other clubs.

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Speaker 2: You would sit down, you'd have an open conversation about

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Speaker 2: what are your needs and surpluses, how do they align

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Speaker 2: up with our needs and surpluses, and are there opportunities

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Speaker 2: for us to get together to make deals. I think

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Speaker 2: things have changed now a little bit. At the winter meetings,

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Speaker 2: there's far less meeting together. There's a lot more conversations

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Speaker 2: over the phone by way of text. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff done leading up to the meetings, so you

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Speaker 2: really are very targeted when you get to the meetings.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you're only meeting with four or five clubs. It's

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Speaker 2: the clubs that you see the most likelihood of getting

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Speaker 2: a deal done. And then, as you guys know, there's

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Speaker 2: so many agents, and there's so many members of the

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Speaker 2: media there that you're constantly meeting with agents, members of

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Speaker 2: the media, And as the way the off season goes,

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Speaker 2: we usually start looking into free agency and trying to

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Speaker 2: spend our owner's money to fill our holes. When that

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Speaker 2: seems exorbitant, we go to the trade market, and then

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Speaker 2: when it seems like the asking price to acquire talent

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Speaker 2: is too high, we circle back to the free agent market.

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Speaker 2: And so it's a constant conversation balancing between talking to agents,

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Speaker 2: talking to other teams executives to try to find out

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Speaker 2: where's the best deal that we can make, to try

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Speaker 2: to make the biggest impact on an organization.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you hit that well, man. Those things

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Speaker 4: I always thought, like when I played, I would tell

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Speaker 4: my agent I was a free agent, like, just give

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Speaker 4: them a price. We already know what price we're at.

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Speaker 4: Just tell tell the team I want to go to,

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Speaker 4: or a team that's interest in me. It's going to be

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Speaker 4: sell and sown. Let's get this ball move. And I'm

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Speaker 4: sick of it. I got the holidays coming up here.

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Speaker 4: But that's just just not how it goes, and I

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Speaker 4: kind of wish it did, because I feel like more

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Speaker 4: guys that either get picked up or you know, there'll

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Speaker 4: be a little there'll be a little more stuff going

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Speaker 4: in motion. But that's just.

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Speaker 2: I think you're talking about two different approaches to an agent.

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Speaker 2: Once you know one you're talking to who's clearly trying

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Speaker 2: to get the most money he can for the player,

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Speaker 2: and totally respect that. That's one style of negotiation. The

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Speaker 2: other one is what you're talking about, which is where

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Speaker 2: you're really contemplating what is the quality of life that

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Speaker 2: that player wants to pursue. And sometimes that's playing in

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Speaker 2: a specific market, Maybe it's an opportunity to play a

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Speaker 2: specific position. Maybe a guy's hunting the longest term deal

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Speaker 2: rather than the most money per year, and other guys

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Speaker 2: want the most money in the shorter term because they

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Speaker 2: want to get back to free agency. But when you're

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Speaker 2: talking to an agent, you get a clear picture right

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Speaker 2: out of the choot as to what type of negotiation

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Speaker 2: you're undertaking. But I honestly always felt, from an executive standpoint,

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Speaker 2: the more transparency, the more likely we were to get

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Speaker 2: a deal done. I never took advantage of somebody if

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Speaker 2: they were more willing to reveal that that player maybe

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Speaker 2: really wanted to sign with you. You know, I think a

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Speaker 2: measure of a person sometimes is how do you handle leverage?

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Speaker 2: And so when an agent came to us and said,

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Speaker 2: you know, hey, listen, my guy really would like to

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Speaker 2: either stay with you as an existing player or come

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Speaker 2: to you as a free agent. I never viewed that

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Speaker 2: as a compromise on their part. That was just a reveal,

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Speaker 2: and I appreciated their honesty. You still want to treat

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Speaker 2: the player extremely fairly in that situation, because the relationship

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Speaker 2: is with the player moving forward, and if he doesn't

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Speaker 2: realize in the moment that you took advantage of him,

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Speaker 2: he certainly will over time. He will be disinclined to

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Speaker 2: ever re sign with you, and his agent will be

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Speaker 2: disinclined to do business with you in the future. So

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Speaker 2: I think the integrity of the agent starts that conversation

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Speaker 2: when he reveals that the player maybe wants to return

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Speaker 2: to the team or join that team. The integrity then

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Speaker 2: shifts to the general manager in that instance to handle

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Speaker 2: that situation responsibly and still treat the player very fairly

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Speaker 2: in the process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, on topic with that, because baseball is the only

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Speaker 3: sport where kind of free agency drags out over the

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Speaker 3: entire offseason. Give me your perfect scenario, things that could

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Speaker 3: be implemented. Obviously things have to be collectively bargain. But

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Speaker 3: how do we get free agency moving quicker? How is

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Speaker 3: it putting a deadline on you free agents or trades

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Speaker 3: or certain things. How do you see us as an

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Speaker 3: industry making big baseball free agency exciting and quick? And

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Speaker 3: then obviously you know there's gonna be some guys who linger,

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Speaker 3: but let's get the majority of these guys signed so

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Speaker 3: fans could get excited about these new players. Players can

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Speaker 3: get acclimated, they can meet their teammates. As a player,

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Speaker 3: I always felt like, you know, my first couple of

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Speaker 3: years when I was with Toronto, I always worked out

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Speaker 3: with this mindset that I was improving to help my team.

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Speaker 3: It got harder for me when I was always a

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Speaker 3: free agent. I was out there, I'm like, what am

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Speaker 3: I training for? Like, obviously I want to be the

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Speaker 3: best version myself, but I like this collective approach that like, man,

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Speaker 3: I want to call one of my teammates and be like, hey,

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Speaker 3: did you get in the gym today? Did you hit?

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Speaker 3: Did you do this? It sucked, you know when you

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Speaker 3: had to wait till, you know, middle of February to.

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Speaker 2: Sign Well and Kevin, I'll add a few things to

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Speaker 2: your comments, which I think are spot on. Is you know,

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Speaker 2: when we're signing a guy like you or signing a

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Speaker 2: guy like Todd, part of it is because of the leadership,

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Speaker 2: the experience you have, the championship pedigree. So if you

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Speaker 2: are coming on board February, you know, week before spring training,

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Speaker 2: you're not able to really spread your knowledge and your

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Speaker 2: wisdom to as guys and have as big of an impact.

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Speaker 2: And also, my guess is you guys find that very

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Speaker 2: fulfilling to help mentor guys. And if we're saying you

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Speaker 2: can only start that process when you meet them in

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Speaker 2: spring training, we're missing an opportunity. Another thing I would

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Speaker 2: just add to the conversation is the fact that every

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Speaker 2: club is investing so much in their spring training facilities.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of you guys now are coming

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Speaker 2: down well in advance to spring training to work out

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Speaker 2: there because the facilities are just so great, And so

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Speaker 2: we're depriving you of the ability to get down there

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Speaker 2: and also get to know some of your teammates, some

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Speaker 2: of your coaches, some of the resources that will be

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Speaker 2: around you. You're getting to know that as spring training

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Speaker 2: begins or dare I say now a lot of guys

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Speaker 2: who are signing well into spring training. It's just such

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Speaker 2: a disadvantage. So I think there's a real dangerous situation

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Speaker 2: going on in baseball right now, which is gms are

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Speaker 2: trying to get the best deals they can, so tour

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Speaker 2: agents agents believe if they wait longer, it'll be more

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Speaker 2: deadline driven teams will have to capitulate and give more money.

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Speaker 2: But then there's a tipping point in that you get

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Speaker 2: past a certain date, the player and agent become a

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Speaker 2: little bit compromised, and gms now are taking advantage of

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Speaker 2: that and signing guys to you know, kind of deflated

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Speaker 2: deals late into February, sometimes March, when guys are really

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Speaker 2: needing to get back into camp and get back out

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Speaker 2: on the field, and so they're in a compromise position.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a terrible way to start a relationship. Furthermore,

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Speaker 2: we're seeing from a performance standpoint, those players are missing

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Speaker 2: out on spring training. There's something to do with the

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Speaker 2: at bats. You guys get that, the reps, you guys

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Speaker 2: that get on the mound just to get into shape.

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Speaker 2: Those guys aren't having great aprils, some of them spilling

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Speaker 2: into May, and so I think we're losing across the

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Speaker 2: boards as an industry on all the fronts you mentioned, Kevin,

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Speaker 2: and then additionally a few that I just brought up.

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Speaker 2: So as a result, I love the thought of having

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Speaker 2: some sort of deadline. Todd kind of referenced it. I

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Speaker 2: think we should get back to the point where when

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Speaker 2: you guys go and spend the holidays with your families

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Speaker 2: and friends, you can tell them where you're going to

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Speaker 2: play the next year, and where your kids may be

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Speaker 2: going to school, and where you're looking for housing. So

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Speaker 2: if we could somehow figure out a way, maybe it's

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Speaker 2: not a hard and fast deadline too soon after the season,

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Speaker 2: but surely by the end of December, we should all

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Speaker 2: have a pretty good understanding of how good a fit

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Speaker 2: of players for a team and a team is for

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Speaker 2: that player. If we can accelerate decisions to be made

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Speaker 2: in the calendar year such that you then can spend

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Speaker 2: all of January February preparing with the team you're going

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Speaker 2: to play for, ideally interacting with some of those teammates,

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Speaker 2: sharing your wisdom, sharing your expertise. I think we all

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Speaker 2: win from that.

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Speaker 4: How about making a deadline at the Winter Meetings? Wouldn't

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Speaker 4: that be helpful for a lot of guys to you know,

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Speaker 4: get these free agents going a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit well todd. That would reinvigorate the Winter Meetings, which

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Speaker 2: right now, you know, we don't see a ton of

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Speaker 2: signings there. Would It would be the off season spectacle

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Speaker 2: that Major League Baseball wishes it was. You know, we

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Speaker 2: have media all over the place there trying to break news,

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Speaker 2: but they're really hunting for stories and they really are

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Speaker 2: breaking a lot more rumors than they are signed. If

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Speaker 2: we actually had a need to sign and agreed to

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Speaker 2: terms with players, there, what an event that would be

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Speaker 2: for Major League Baseball? We put in on it, on

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Speaker 2: it on the map. Where's right now? It's just kind

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Speaker 2: of a slow bleed to get through free agency, and

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Speaker 2: I don't think it captures the fans interest like MLB

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Speaker 2: would want it to.

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Speaker 1: My next question, hold on, hold up real quick, because

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Speaker 1: I want to jump in. Are you guys I'm just

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Speaker 1: making sure here from the player perspective, are you guys

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Speaker 1: good with like KP You're good? Everyone like you? You have

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Speaker 1: to sign December eighth, I noise get taken care of,

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Speaker 1: and then you just get to take it or leave

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Speaker 1: it off, or versus doing a trade deadline at the

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Speaker 1: winter meetings so that it can't be used as leverage

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Speaker 1: and we can get the trade action done and then

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Speaker 1: go to the signings.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a I think it's got to be

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Speaker 3: incentive driven. I don't think it's like a cutoff, like

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Speaker 3: you can't sign, but maybe incentivized teams for signing players,

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Speaker 3: Like maybe ninety percent of the deal counts against the

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Speaker 3: CBT and you get a ten percent discount on you know, luxury,

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Speaker 3: something along those lines. To incentivize teams where you know,

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Speaker 3: if we're fighting over just you know, a year. I

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Speaker 3: know year is a lot or you know, a couple

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Speaker 3: million bucks, which sounds like a lot, but to a

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Speaker 3: team it's not that much. But like, let's get the

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Speaker 3: ball roving. Incentivized teams. Maybe it's a draft pick compensation

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Speaker 3: if you sign a guy for X amount of years

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Speaker 3: for certain amount of dollars, whatever it may be. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're smarter people out there than me. But I think

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Speaker 3: you incentivized teams and agents and players to sign by

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Speaker 3: a certain date. So all those things that we talked about,

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Speaker 3: being able to get in and meet your teammates and

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Speaker 3: you know, get your family settled.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: As a player who signed late, it was tough, you know,

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Speaker 3: And I think about my my most recent experience with

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Speaker 3: the Rangers. You know, part of the reason I got

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Speaker 3: brought in was to be kind of a veteran guy,

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Speaker 3: a leader, guy who's been there help out some of

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Speaker 3: these younger guys. And the first time I'm meeting them,

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Speaker 3: it's three or four days into spring training. I didn't

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Speaker 3: have a lot of time. And obviously my time was

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Speaker 3: short there. I got released, you know, a couple months

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Speaker 3: into the season. But it felt like if I had

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Speaker 3: an entire offseason living here in Dallas, I could have

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Speaker 3: commuted down to arling in and you know, saw the

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Speaker 3: guys and worked out and got to know the staff

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Speaker 3: a little bit better. You know, maybe things would have

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Speaker 3: turned out a little bit different. But you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't think you could just put a deadline on, like

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Speaker 3: if you don't sign your you're kicked out of baseball.

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Speaker 3: I think it has to be incentive driven.

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Speaker 2: How about this as an idea, guys, how about if

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Speaker 2: you don't sign by specific date, the most you can

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Speaker 2: sign for is like eighty percent of the qualifying offer,

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Speaker 2: and it could be over two three years if you

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Speaker 2: want to, or it could be all in one year.

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Speaker 2: But like that's that's kind of now the cap for play.

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Speaker 5: If you want the Yeah, But I just I think

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Speaker 5: it's such an unrealistic ask when you're saying that, I

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Speaker 5: mean that just gives you're coming from a long time

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Speaker 5: executive side, that where that's a way for that side

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Speaker 5: to squeeze guys, Like for me, why not do the

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Speaker 5: incentive side which incentivizes team to actually be active versus

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Speaker 5: them saying take it or leave it.

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Speaker 1: If you wait until tomorrow, you're only going eighty percent

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Speaker 1: of the qualifying offer. I just think that's a trash

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Speaker 1: way to operate in a negotiation.

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Speaker 2: I'm just assuming that the guys who are positioned to

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Speaker 2: make one hundred plus million dollars, you know, enter trying

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Speaker 2: to ecot one hundred and ten or signed for ninety

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Speaker 2: Like I think executives would have to come to the

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Speaker 2: table much more sincerely earlier in that process is what

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Speaker 2: I would hope as well.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the incentive side is a good

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Speaker 1: idea and that side ever go for it, okay, And

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Speaker 1: what about the trade deadline? What about it? See to me,

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Speaker 1: I think because I'm always trying to think that, I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to play like a player agent here. I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to defend the other side a little bit.

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Speaker 1: My thing is I always try to think of what

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Speaker 1: actually would get done in a negotiation, because anything that

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Speaker 1: happens has to get agreed to from player and ownership side.

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Speaker 1: For me, the thing that I actually think is realistic

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Speaker 1: is the trade deadline. Right so on the player side,

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Speaker 1: you're going to be happy with that. Players don't want

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Speaker 1: to get traded in freaking February when they already think

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Speaker 1: they're gone somewhere and then they get moved. Wipe the

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Speaker 1: trades off the board. Let the first month or so

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Speaker 1: of the offseason focus on what trades can happen, and

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Speaker 1: then it's done. Now you can still do signings before that,

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Speaker 1: but you can only sign players to advance yourself as

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Speaker 1: a team for an x amount of time period. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you're going to open up trades again, but we don't

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Speaker 1: get that many trades at the beginning of the season anyway.

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Speaker 1: So like, let's let's set this dead period where you

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Speaker 1: can't trade players on a forty man roster.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very sound concept.

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Speaker 2: You know, As I said earlier, part of the reason

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Speaker 2: we wait on free agency is because we have an alternative,

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Speaker 2: which is going to the trade market. And part of

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Speaker 2: the reason we wait on the trade market is because

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Speaker 2: we have an alternative, which is free agency. So if

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Speaker 2: you have tight windows in which you can only operate

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Speaker 2: in one space, you're going to have to accelerate conversations

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Speaker 2: in each of those spaces.

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Speaker 4: It's a good it's a good one. Yeah, I said

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Speaker 4: free agent. I meant to say trade deadline. I know

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Speaker 4: that's what I came off. But this is very interesting.

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Speaker 4: This is this should be the language and the banter

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Speaker 4: back and forth with you know, the collective bargaining and

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Speaker 4: everything else like these should be the tall and I

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Speaker 4: hope that's what they're talking about, But there's other little

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Speaker 4: things that they go through with.

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Speaker 1: While we're at it. One more thad, can we trade

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Speaker 1: draft picks too? Every other league gets to do that.

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Speaker 1: I'm just coming from the fan perspective. All I care

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Speaker 1: about that is activity.

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Speaker 3: I've been saying it for a long time that I

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Speaker 3: think it would help advance trades, you know, like and

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Speaker 3: it's to my point too, Like I wanted to ask

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Speaker 3: you about this too, and you know the trade that

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Speaker 3: happened yesterday between the Red Sox and the Pirates. But

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Speaker 3: we were just talking about teams covet prospects so much

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Speaker 3: that at some point you have an abundance of them

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Speaker 3: and you don't have enough room for them to you know,

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Speaker 3: fill out your major league roster. At some point you

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Speaker 3: got to trade them, Like what is what's the what

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Speaker 3: is it the fear of that this prospect becomes this

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Speaker 3: player that you drafted, developed and you hoped. But at

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Speaker 3: some point I'd love to see teams like use their

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Speaker 3: prospects and their draft picks to improve their major league

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Speaker 3: roster because ultimately that's what, you know, makes everything work.

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Speaker 3: If you have a productive major league team, everything else

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Speaker 3: would kind of follow.

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Speaker 2: And I think both these points kind of fall under

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Speaker 2: a similar umbrella. For me, I would love to trade

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Speaker 2: draft picks. We've talked about this as from the GM

405
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Speaker 2: perspective at every GM meeting. I don't know why we

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Speaker 2: haven't implemented that. I just strongly believe we should have

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Speaker 2: every ability to try to build a championship organization. We

408
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Speaker 2: shouldn't be restricted like we currently are. I would take

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Speaker 2: a lot of the safeguards off of the draft. I

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Speaker 2: would take it off of trading draft picks. I just

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Speaker 2: think teams should be able to spend money where they

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Speaker 2: want to spend money to try to build championship organizations.

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Speaker 2: Let's let teams be as creative as possible. Let's not

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Speaker 2: restrict creativity whatsoever. And then, Kevin, with regards to your point,

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Speaker 2: I do think there's a little bit of that fear

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Speaker 2: that that prospect turns into the next role six, role seven,

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Speaker 2: role eight player, the guy who's the perennial All Star,

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Speaker 2: the guy who's the goal glover or the silver slugger.

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Speaker 2: But then I also think GM's probably put a little

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Speaker 2: bit too much onus on this notion of service time.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, yesterday's trade was really fascinating because

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Speaker 2: you trade a premium position player prospect who they're going

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Speaker 2: to control for the next six years for a really

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Speaker 2: solid major league starting pitcher who you can control for

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Speaker 2: two years. And so you know, that is a very

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Speaker 2: calculated decision on both sides parts, and that's why Boston

427
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 2: probably receives additional value in this deal because they're giving

428
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Speaker 2: up six years of control for two. That's always a

429
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Speaker 2: challenge as well, because that's how you gain cost control

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Speaker 2: in the game. Is for every guy you're signing to

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Speaker 2: a deal that is, you know, fifteen plus million dollars,

432
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Speaker 2: you have to have four to five guys making the

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Speaker 2: major league minimum to balance out your payroll by and large,

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Speaker 2: and if you have one that is competing at a

435
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 2: very high level, they're worth so much value to the team.

436
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 2: So there is this balancing act of like how much

437
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 2: of your future value are you sacrificing to try to

438
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,719
Speaker 2: win today. An addition that I would just bring up is,

439
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 2: you know, I think so many general managers are so

440
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 2: intelligent today, but one of the things we may be

441
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 2: missing is just that kind of that thirst to win.

442
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: And I think we all know the general managers who

443
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 2: are super aggressive out there, who are willing to try

444
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 2: those prospects in the name of trying to win today.

445
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: I think they are more general managers out there who

446
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 2: want to play it safe and want to keep their

447
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 2: prospects for the future to give a chance to win

448
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 2: in the future. They're not necessarily willing to forego the

449
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 2: chance to win today. I think there's a little bit

450
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 2: of an imbalance in the general managers today. When I

451
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 2: started in the game, you know, the average GM was

452
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: kind of the Kevin Towers, Dave Dombrowski, Jim Hendry types

453
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 2: of guys. Omar Minaya, Jim Bowden. These guys were going

454
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 2: forward at all the time, and they wore that on

455
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: their sleeves. Now, I think guys are a lot more

456
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: reserved about that, and they're playing for you know, not

457
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 2: only for tomorrow, but they're also playing for three, five,

458
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 2: ten years down the road. I think we need some

459
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 2: more general managers with a little bit more short term

460
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 2: goals to be able to drive some of those types

461
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 2: of deals. Otherwise they're going to hold onto those prospects

462
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 2: in the name of trying to win down the road.

463
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 4: Preach Datt, that last part was money right there. Last

464
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 4: question for May I'm a shift gears here, Ron Washington,

465
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 4: what do you think that? I mean, he's been around

466
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 4: the block, he's been everywhere as well, loved. I mean,

467
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 4: what do you think he'll bring to the Giants moving forward?

468
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: Here?

469
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Todd, I'm glad you brought up. He is one

470
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 2: of my biggest friends and mentors in the game. Just

471
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 2: a spectacular human being. Anyone who's touched this guy knows

472
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: that he just loves the game of baseball at such

473
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: a high level. He's not a glass half full guy.

474
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 2: He's the water's brimming over. He is tremendous. I've never

475
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 2: seen a guy who has the impact he has on

476
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 2: the morale of a team. Just nobody was ever down

477
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: when wash was in the clubhouse. He genuinely believed and

478
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 2: he espoused when he was the manager of the Texas Rangers,

479
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: give us the double a roster tank, We're going to

480
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: kick somebody's butt. And that's basically what he said. Never

481
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: once in his tenure with the Rangers did he ever

482
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 2: come up to me or John Daniels and say, Hey,

483
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: this guy can't play here or he's not good enough.

484
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 2: He always embraced the best that every player had to

485
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: offer and put them in the ultimate position to succeed.

486
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 2: In addition to that, guys, I think he's the best

487
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: infield I've ever been around. I've heard great things about

488
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 2: Perry Hill and a few guys, but he was the

489
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 2: best guy I've ever witnessed. He's a great base running guy,

490
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 2: tremendous third base coach. I know we won't be doing

491
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: that for the Giants, but in today's day and age,

492
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how many competitive advantages you get from

493
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 2: your working coaches you unequivocally do that from Wash. You

494
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: see what he's how he's impacted every team's defense that

495
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 2: he has been part of. You know, Marcus Simeon, Eric Chavez,

496
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 2: oz Alby's, all of these guys give him so much

497
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: credit for becoming the Gold Globe players that they became.

498
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: And I think on top of that, he's just such

499
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: a effervescent, spectacular human. So does San Francisco. Giants obviously

500
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: have a very good left side of the infield. You've

501
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: got Raphael Devers potentially moving to first base. What better

502
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: guy to come in and not only make him an

503
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: average first basement, but if there's anybody out there who

504
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: can make him an above average first basement, it would

505
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: be Wash. One of their best prospects, Eldridge is going

506
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: to be coming up at some point soon. Wash will

507
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: help him, yet to be determined what they're going to

508
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: do at second base. He's also going to help the

509
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: veterans on the left side. Chapman's obviously a perennial Gold

510
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: Glove domas solid above average defender at short But he's

511
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: going to help those guys. I think he's going to

512
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: help the guys in the field. He's going to also

513
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: help the swagger and attitude in the clubhouse. This is

514
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 2: a guy who believes he is going to be a champion.

515
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 2: Every time he sets foot on the field. It exudes

516
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: to all the players around him. He is going to

517
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: be a huge advantage for the San Francisco Giants.

518
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 3: All right, last one for me too. Rockies kind of

519
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 3: went out and made a let's just call it an

520
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: interesting hire. What are the Rockies kind of building with

521
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 3: who they brought in?

522
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: So, you know, Paul is a exceptionally intelligent individual. He

523
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 2: and I happened to grow up in the same neighborhood,

524
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: played high school baseball against each other, so I've known

525
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: him for quite some time. You know, I think he

526
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 2: gets a lot of credit and credit deserved for being

527
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 2: on the advent of bringing analytics into baseball. He had

528
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: a great career in baseball then left to spend ten

529
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: years in the NFL, so I think he comes back

530
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: to baseball even more polished. He's got some additional ideas

531
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: he's going to have about building a championship team. As

532
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 2: you guys know, playing in Colorado is probably the biggest

533
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 2: Rubik's cube in all of professional sports. Trying to help

534
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: turn altitude from what is now one of the biggest

535
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 2: atturns to the biggest competitive advantages. And if someone can

536
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: figure that out, that team has a chance to have

537
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: a tremendous run, because I think people will be very

538
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: concerned about having to go play there, especially in playoff

539
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: type settings. So I think Paul is an extremely intelligent guy.

540
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: No stone will be left unturned. He's going to be

541
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: researching altitude from every single angle. And then he partners

542
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: up with a guy named Josh Burns, who has had

543
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 2: a tremendous career in the game. Another good friend of mine.

544
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: Josh and I went to college together, played baseball in

545
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: college together, and he got me my first job working

546
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: for the Colorado Rockies. Josh has been a general manager

547
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 2: twice over He's been to the World Series eight times.

548
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: He has won four of them, one with the Red Sox,

549
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: three with the Dodgers. He's been instrumental in building out

550
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: the player development and amateur scouting side for the Dodgers.

551
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 2: He's going to bring that knowledge and acum into the

552
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 2: Colorado Rockies. I think the Rockies are in great hands

553
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 2: right now. Now. The question is what additional changes are

554
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: they able to make and how will they invest in

555
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,479
Speaker 2: the players and staff on the field to compliment what

556
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: Josh and Paul are doing in the front office.

557
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: All right, that last one, and I think this is

558
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: a fascinating topic that you would have great insight on,

559
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about it right after you

560
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: leave us. There was an article in The Athletic yesterday

561
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: called Inside How MLB teams evaluate player makeup from top

562
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: prospects to big time free agents. It is written by

563
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: Enosarus and Chandler Rome. It is sparked by an interesting

564
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: case from Barbaldez had a very public incident that he

565
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: has a side of a story to most people saw

566
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: and it looks like he was throwing at his catcher, right,

567
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: and that sparks the whole makeup conversation. So I'm curious

568
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: your thoughts on how you would handle a player like that.

569
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: And we got some inside on how there's videos that

570
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: are sent out which is pretty common from free agents,

571
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: and they put a lot in there about his characters.

572
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: So how do front offices evaluate that? And you know this, right,

573
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking for your group, but there are some

574
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: front offices sometimes that miss where like I'm pretty on

575
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: the outside and I'll hear like that guy is not

576
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: good news, and it's like, why did the acquirements? Someone

577
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: will say to me that team doesn't do good enough

578
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: homework on makeup.

579
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Scott's a great question, and you know, I

580
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 2: think it's multi layers. So I just would say this is,

581
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 2: you know, I think there's some teams that are very

582
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: model driven in their decision making, and the bottom line

583
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 2: is makeup doesn't really show up well in models. It's

584
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 2: not empirical, it's a little bit softer, it's a little

585
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: more subjective than it is objective. So when you talk about,

586
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: you know, an eyebrow raised by you guys, when you

587
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: see a guy sign and you're like, wow, that doesn't

588
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 2: seem as if it's going to align, well, it's probably

589
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: with a team that really isn't putting a ton of

590
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: value on makeup at all because it's not measurable. I think,

591
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: in contrast, one thing, I've been Party two and I've

592
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: been so fortunate in both Texas and Minnesota. One thing

593
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: that we did is we employed former major league players

594
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: to really help us sort through this discussion. So in Minnesota,

595
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: two of our first hires when we got there were

596
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: LaTroy Hawkins and Tory Hunter. We then eventually added Justin

597
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: Mornau and Michael Couldiere to the group. And so what

598
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: we would do is we would give them a list

599
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: of free agents and say, hey, guys, based upon your

600
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 2: personal experience and or your friends in the game, can

601
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: you find out what is it like to go shoulder

602
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: to shoulder with this guy in a clubhouse, What is

603
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: he like on the field, what does he like when

604
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: things get tough, because we wanted to get firsthand experience

605
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: and knowledge on those things rather than us speculating. I

606
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: think it's really tough for scouts to break this down

607
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: because sometimes we see a guy who hits a pop

608
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: up in the infield and he doesn't run it out,

609
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: and also we ascribe all sorts of negative attributes to them.

610
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: It turns out that has nothing to do with it.

611
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 2: So we want to talk to players who've either played

612
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: with those guys and been in the clubhouse with him,

613
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: or who can access players or coaches who have been

614
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: in the clubhouse with him to find out exactly what's

615
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 2: going on with these guys, so there's no surprises when

616
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: we acquire them, and with ram Berveldes specifically, you know,

617
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: it's such a fascinating case. I actually had a chance

618
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: to work with Ulysses Cabrera's agent this offseason because I

619
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: am an independent person right now. He asked my opinion

620
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: of how our front office is going to perceive him.

621
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: He did put together a video as you reference God,

622
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: and the video is fascinating because usually these videos are

623
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: hype performance videos. This is actually a twenty minute video

624
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: which really gives you insights into who Cranburvel does is

625
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: where did he grow up, what is his family like?

626
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's the classic story of a guy growing

627
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: up in a household with no electricity and no running

628
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: water and really having to fight for everything throughout his life.

629
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: It really put the person in perspective, and I think

630
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: for teams that genuinely care about that this will be

631
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: a video that will probably open their eyes. For teams

632
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: that maybe put less of an emphasis on makeup, it

633
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: may not matter whatsoever, but the reality is, this guy's

634
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: been a really, really good performer for quite some time.

635
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: Hits the market a little bit older than some free agents,

636
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: but no fault of his own. This was because the

637
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: Houston Astros probably tried to do a few things on

638
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: the front end to extend his tenure with them. He's

639
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: a year older, but he is one of these guys,

640
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: who is, you know, throwing six seven innings every single

641
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: time he goes out there. I think that's going to

642
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: get the attention of teams. They're all going to ask

643
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: him what happened that night when he crossed up the catcher.

644
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: As long as I think he's accountable, contrite and sincere

645
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: about his answer, hopefully he will be put in a

646
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: position where the teams can look past that and he'll

647
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: find the perfect team and the perfect fit for him

648
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: to continue to showcase his talents on the mound.

649
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: That's great insight. I didn't know you worked with the team.

650
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: Even more interesting to hear how that all works. And yeah,

651
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean it's obvious, it's not in this case something

652
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: that is hidden because the one incident was very public.

653
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: So it's cool to hear what goes on behind the

654
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: scenes to then say, hey, one thing happened for one

655
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: second about the other billion seconds that this guy exists

656
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: around your team and what that's going to look like.

657
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, in Scott, I just would toss it

658
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: to the players here for a second, Like I always

659
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: felt in my career when I was evaluating a situation,

660
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: if a guy was genuinely contrite about what happened, if

661
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: there was a transgression. And I come from a team

662
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: where we traded for Josh Hamilton, we signed Matt Bush,

663
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: these guys had done some things in their lives which

664
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: were challenging, to say the least. Both of those guys

665
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: were genuinely accountable to their actions. They were contrite about that,

666
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: and they were aspirational of doing better. And one of

667
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: the litmus tests I always talked about was can this

668
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: person stand in front of a sixth, eighth, or tenth

669
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: grade class of students and say, hey, listen, I made mistakes.

670
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: Here were my mistakes, here's what I learned from them.

671
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: Don't do what I did. And if they can do that,

672
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: then we're in position. We all want to forgive guys, right,

673
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: we want to give them second chances, provided that they're

674
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: genuinely accountable for what transpired.

675
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, oh, go ahead, Todd.

676
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, I think at the end

677
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 4: of the day, we don't know what he was going through. Uh,

678
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 4: people make mistakes. It's how you come back from it.

679
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 4: And you give somebody an extra mistake or two, and

680
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 4: you see how they come back from and listen, it

681
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 4: looked bad, of course it did on TV. You saw

682
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 4: what he did. It looked like everything was on purpose,

683
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. But guess what, do you know the person.

684
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 4: Do you know what he was going through that day?

685
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: Was there something on his mind? Okay, then let's get

686
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 4: to know the guy first before you make judgment. Of course,

687
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 4: love it.

688
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree anymore. I think a

689
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: lot of bringing guys into an organization, to your point,

690
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: And I feel like I'd be a perfect guy for

691
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 3: that job that you were speaking of because I played

692
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: on ten teams. I played with so many different guys.

693
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: It's hard to judge a guy off of one moment

694
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: in their career. To Scott's point, that's one second of

695
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: the billion second s he's lived on Earth. You know,

696
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: some of these guys, you have no idea where they

697
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 3: came from, how they grew up, what they did you know,

698
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: personally speaking, I had a moment in my career that

699
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 3: you know, was the lowest the lows. And if people

700
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 3: want to judge me for that one moment in time

701
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 3: where I made a mistake, so be it. But if

702
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 3: you ask anyone that I played with or that I've

703
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: been in contact with, coaches, front office players, they tell

704
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 3: you that was just, you know, a moment of weakness.

705
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: I grew from it. I stood up, I was accountable

706
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: for what I did. I moved on. I did everything

707
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 3: I had to do in order to make it right

708
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 3: with the group of people that I offended and that

709
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: I was hurt from. But it would kill me if

710
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: people still judge me for a moment on the field,

711
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 3: in the most competitive environment where I had a moment

712
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: of weakness. You know, And for Framber, he's been an

713
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: outstanding picture. To me, what he did is totally forgivable.

714
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 3: It was a moment of a weakness, a lapse in judgment.

715
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 3: But he shouldn't be defined by, you know, the one

716
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: moment of his career. He's been way too valuable of

717
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: a picture to your point, what he brings. He's been

718
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 3: in an organization that's been you know, aside from maybe

719
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: the Dodgers kind of the gold standard of being in

720
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: a competitive environment and building a culture. So hopefully people

721
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: will either watch this video or go out and do

722
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: their research. I've been a part of a lot of

723
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 3: organizations where a GM will come down or is always

724
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: present around the trade deadline and he'll straight up be like, Hey,

725
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: we're thinking about getting this guy. What have you heard

726
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: on him? Have you played with him? What's he like?

727
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: They want to go down? Is he going to fit

728
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: in this clubhouse?

729
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 4: You know?

730
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: And if the answer is yes, he's gonna fit in.

731
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: And if the answer is like, you know, he's a

732
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: little bit difficult to handle. But I think what we've

733
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 3: created in this clubhouse is enough to kind of bring

734
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: him in and he's not going to be a distraction

735
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: because the talent is so great. You bring a guy

736
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: in and you know, people could change depending on their

737
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: environment and the people are around, they can improve, you know.

738
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: So hopefully this is just a blip on the radar

739
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: for him, something we're not talking about, you know, once

740
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: he signs and just allow his body of work to

741
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: go kind of speak for him.

742
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: Well, Kevin, I'll add one thing to what you just said.

743
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: There which is one thing we did in addition to

744
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: talking to some of our leaders. When we're talking about

745
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: bringing a guy into the clubhouse, we went and talked

746
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: to the visiting clubhouse manager and we asked him, Hey,

747
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: how does this guy conduct himself in the clubhouse? How

748
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: does he interact with the clubs? You know, these are

749
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: guys who are you know, he doesn't have to look

750
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: up to them. He can treat them however they want to.

751
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: And it's fascinating revealing how players interacted with clubhouse guys.

752
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: And we canceled trades based upon what we heard from

753
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 2: our visiting clubhouse guy in terms of the character we

754
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: thought that the player may have based upon how he

755
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: may be mistreated some people in the clubhouse. And we've

756
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: also enhanced our interest in players based upon the leadership

757
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: that they showed in the clubhouse. So I think players

758
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 2: should understand we're trying to do our homework. We're trying

759
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 2: to get the best information we can. But the age

760
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 2: old discussion, hey somebody's always looking, I think is somewhat true,

761
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: Like how do you conduct yourself when you think nobody's looking?

762
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: Is part of how we're evaluating you. And then the

763
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: last thing I'll say, is we preach to our kids

764
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: all the time. You're not defined by the adversity, but

765
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: you're defined by how you respond to the university. We

766
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: should afford our teammates the same luxury we afford our children.

767
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: I like that, and I like bringing in players to help,

768
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: and players that like the ones you're looking at on

769
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: the screen here, because if they're doing podcasts and digital

770
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: shows and they're just delivering real talk all the time,

771
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: it's good. You don't want a fluff guy that's just

772
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: gonna be like, yeah, everyone's okay, Like you need somebody

773
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: who's going to tell you, hey, this is really how

774
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: this guy is. So I like that that. This was great.

775
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Great to catch up with you again.

776
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: Totally different combo this way, without the catchers. They'll probably

777
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: be back next time we chat. But encouraging everyone also

778
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: to check out your new show, Rosters to rings, check

779
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: out the pod wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks dad,

780
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: good to talk to you.

781
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on guys. Always a pleasure.

782
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: That's that Levine, longtime baseball executive. Let's just bring this

783
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: in for a couple minutes to wrap it up, because

784
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: it does come from that article guys, specifically on Framberbaldez KP.

785
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: You provided a great context on what happened and how

786
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: you personally feel like you're someone that would forgive the

787
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 1: situation look at it as a one off. The way

788
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: our world works nowadays is something like that goes viral

789
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: and somebody just I don't want to say, cancels them forever,

790
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: but they're like, oh, I would never want him on

791
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: my team, And hey, I get a little drastic sometimes

792
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: like that. I'm not going to lie, right, I didn't play,

793
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at it from a different sphere. I'm

794
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: trying to look at it as if I own a

795
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: team and he costs one hundred and fifty million dollars?

796
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: Am I okay with that? I'm not saying, hey, am

797
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: I going to have another incident just like that? But

798
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: is the character in line?

799
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: Right?

800
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: Is this guy somebody that I feel like I can trust?

801
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: That's not going to be a problem because we know

802
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: that he's a good pitcher, we know that he can

803
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: pitch in a playoff game, we know that he can

804
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: be a number one or two starter for a team

805
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: for the next several years. But how do you think

806
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: it owner looks at that look it.

807
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to get into specific names here,

808
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: but there there are people employed by teams, players that

809
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: have done a lot worse. And you know, it's recent news.

810
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 3: So and obviously the timing for him would never would

811
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: have been good. But for his own individual you know,

812
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 3: free agency, the timing couldn't be any worse. If this

813
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: was four or five years ago, people are probably talking

814
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 3: about it. The only reason it's still relevant is he

815
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 3: recently did it. He's about to be a free agent,

816
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: so you have to factor that in. But you know,

817
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 3: to that's point, you know, we we should give people

818
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 3: a little bit more grace. We should give people the

819
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: ability to go out make an apology if it's sincere,

820
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: give him a give them an opportunity to to to

821
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 3: prove people wrong. And teams are not dumb. Teams are

822
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 3: going out and doing their homework. Much to his point,

823
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 3: and I love that conversation, being able to get into

824
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 3: the mind of a GM and hear all these sort

825
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 3: of things, you know, the visiting clubhouse guy, the travel secretary,

826
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: your nutrition's, your chefs, all these people they're gonna reach

827
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 3: out to. You know, I in my opinion alex Anthopolis

828
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 3: is one of the best gms in baseball because he's

829
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 3: so real. He comes and talks to his players. And

830
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 3: when I was in Atlanta, when I was in Toronto,

831
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: most recently in Atlanta, these things would come up all

832
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: the time. You know, hey, we're thinking about getting this guy.

833
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: He would come sit at you know, launch or dinner

834
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: with four or five of us and be like, hey,

835
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 3: I know you played with this guy. What do you

836
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 3: got on him? Will he fit in? You know I

837
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: heard this. Do you think that's true? You know I

838
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 3: talked to this person, you know, so it's really it

839
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: is an important factor. But I don't think any one

840
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: player should be defined by any moment on the field.

841
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: Give him a chance to explain himself. And like you said,

842
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: you've never walked them out on any one of these shoes.

843
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 3: You have no idea what this guy had come, where

844
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 3: he had come from, the amount of adversity had faced

845
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 3: in his life for him to be judged on this

846
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 3: one cross up of his picture, where yes, it did

847
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: look very intentional. You could look on the face that

848
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: he was obviously upset with, you know, maybe the way

849
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 3: he was calling a game. But this guy grew up

850
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 3: in a place that didn't have running water, probably slept

851
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: on the floor. Like, let that be kind of the

852
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: foundation of this guy's character more than this moment that

853
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 3: kind of went viral.

854
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good insight. And hey, my last point on

855
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: this It says in the article eighty seconds into a

856
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: twenty five minute video, the content switches from on field

857
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: results to flushing out what kind of person Bramberbaldez is.

858
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: That's cool.

859
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: I'm just like, whoa twenty five minutes? We're doing a

860
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: Netflix stock Let's let's maybe pair it down a little bit.

861
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're going to keep tod Father

862
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: on twenty five minutes on anything? Right?

863
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 2: Nope?

864
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, Yeah.

865
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: What's the what's the sweet spot? Top Father?

866
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: Maybe five?

867
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: Can I get five out of you? If it's a

868
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: good story.

869
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 4: Now you didn't get me, you give me eight to twelve? Okay?

870
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, me talked to you to this to this point too, Like,

871
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about a guy poping up of

872
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 3: the infield and jogging down the first base like that.

873
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: People don't know the the entirety of you know, what

874
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: a player is going through, Like there's a lot of

875
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: times you're playing banged up and you've been told, hey,

876
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 3: don't run hard down the line. I mean, I know

877
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: that's a microcosm of you know, what was happening, but

878
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: like we're just so quick to judge players from what

879
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: we see and what is put on Twitter or Instagram

880
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: and it becomes these viral moments. But there's so much

881
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: that goes on behind the scenes. Like you know, you

882
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 3: could have a newborn at home and not have a

883
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: lot of sleep, and you could just you know, not

884
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 3: be in your right mind and go out and do

885
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: something and you're judged for It's like, at the end

886
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: of the day, we're human beings. We have emotions, we

887
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: have problems outside the field, we have lives outside the field.

888
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 3: Like things happen, you know, but if you can stand

889
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: up and maybe that was maybe to his fault he

890
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: didn't get in front of the camera after that happened

891
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: and said, hey, I made a mistake. It was a

892
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 3: lapse of judgment, you know, like I wasn't vibing with

893
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: my catcher, I was upset, I made a mistake or

894
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 3: I got crossed up. I don't know what the scenario was,

895
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: but the fact that he hasn't answered those questions. You know,

896
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 3: maybe that's you know, maybe the bigger story here, but

897
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 3: it's not what he did, you know, allow people an

898
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 3: opportunity to kind of, you know, have a comeback story.

899
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: That's my only thing, guys. I know we got to run,

900
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: but it's hard when you didn't get the public apology,

901
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: kind of got the denial and maybe things happened behind

902
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: the scenes, but it helps, like it would help him.

903
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: I know it sucks and maybe I'm wrong here, guys,

904
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: but everyone that looked at the video kind of feels

905
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: the same way. I wish that he would have just

906
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: come out or even now and said, like, I messed up,

907
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: I'm a human. Can you feel me on this one?

908
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: I apologize like forgive me to the public and forever,

909
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: and I think it would have played out better.

910
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: That's me.

911
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: I think people do give forgiveness, but it seemed like

912
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: there was a denial at the time and we've never

913
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: really gotten it. I'm sure the conversation's different with teams,

914
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: but that's the main issue I have. Do you guys

915
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: feel me on that one?

916
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: Like if he just.

917
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: Comes back and says that that part I think makes

918
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: it easier it's hard to look at the video and

919
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: be like that was a cross up. That was a

920
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: real genuine cross up.

921
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: It's because and I think the biggest issue of the

922
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 4: whole thing, and I'll just button it up, it's because

923
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 4: he did it to his own teammate. You know. It

924
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 4: wasn't like, it wasn't like he did it to somebody

925
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: he didn't like, you know, he did like, what was

926
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 4: that about? And that's something that'll stick with him, you know.

927
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 4: And there's far more horror stories. Don't get me wrong.

928
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 4: The guy's okay, it could have been much worse, don't

929
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 4: get me wrong. But yes, he did it to his

930
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: own teammate. And that's that's the problem that people are

931
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 4: going to have with