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Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may

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Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. Ashley Zarski initially seems

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Speaker 1: like someone Robert Fisher would dislike. He's a conservative, gun

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Speaker 1: toting hunter in a pickup truck. She's a liberal leaning woman,

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Speaker 1: unafraid to speak her mind. They're not a natural match,

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Speaker 1: so it may surprise you that of everyone I interview,

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Speaker 1: Ashley gives me the best insight into Robert when we

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Speaker 1: meet in Sedona. All I know is that she worked

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Speaker 1: with him years ago. I have no idea she was

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Speaker 1: also one of his closest friends. Our conversation is emotional

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Speaker 1: and revealing. We talk of affairs and violent threats and caves.

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Speaker 1: What strikes me most, though, is how Ashley is still

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Speaker 1: struggling twenty three years later to reconcile the man she

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Speaker 1: knew with the brutal acts he's accused of committing. Ashley

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Speaker 1: is perhaps the bravest person I interview for this show.

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Speaker 1: It would be so easy for her to disown Robert

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Speaker 1: or at least remain silent. Instead, she's up for him.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, she abhors the murders she knew and

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Speaker 1: loved Mary and the kids, but she refuses to paint

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Speaker 1: Robert as a two dimensional evil cartoon. She resists the

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Speaker 1: urge to pile on to erase years of happy memories.

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Speaker 1: Long after the church and hunting Buddies throw Robert under

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Speaker 1: the bus. Understandable given the circumstances. I'm not judging them,

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Speaker 1: Ashley recounts to me in her first public interview, the deepest,

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Speaker 1: most honest, most complex narrative of who Robert really was.

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Speaker 1: Think of the bravery that takes if tomorrow the world

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Speaker 1: hates you, viscerally despises you. You are evil incarnate, a

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Speaker 1: throat slashing child killer who will speak on your behalf,

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Speaker 1: who will resist the urge to distill you down to

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Speaker 1: your worst instincts, who will refuse to feed the hungry

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Speaker 1: media beast and the ravenous public it serves the reductive

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Speaker 1: archetypal villain they crave. This is not about making Robert

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Speaker 1: Fisher look good. It's about trying to understand and find him.

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Speaker 1: It's also about integrity. Courage is more than violence. Courage

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Speaker 1: can be calm. Courage can be telling a stranger about

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Speaker 1: a friend you loved, the truth, good and bad, even

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Speaker 1: when your friend is accused of heinous crimes. To find

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Speaker 1: Robert Fisher, we need to understand him. To understand him,

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Speaker 1: we need nuance. Nuance is truth, and truth is integrity,

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Speaker 1: and integrity still matters, at least on this show from

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three. I'm John Walzac and this

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Speaker 1: is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man who

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Speaker 1: disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing up

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Speaker 1: their suburban home and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty three

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Speaker 1: years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need your help.

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Speaker 2: Tell me what you do for a look.

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Speaker 3: I'm a respiratory therapist. I give breathing treatments to people.

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Speaker 3: I do diagnostic testing, and the book my job as

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Speaker 3: I take care of people on life sports systems.

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Speaker 2: I imagine the last few years with COVID were kind

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Speaker 2: of tough for you.

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Speaker 3: The last three years have been really hard, demoralizing in

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Speaker 3: a lot of ways. I think the hardest part for

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Speaker 3: me was that our own government was lying to us. Oh,

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Speaker 3: in this spring, when it gets warmed this, I'll just

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Speaker 3: go away, don't, won't. I know? I didn't. When Phoenix

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Speaker 3: was still shut down, they had this huge protest to

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Speaker 3: the Capitol. So we did a counter protest. It showed

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Speaker 3: up in scrubs in ninety five across across the chest

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Speaker 3: and he said nothing, and people just were horrible. They

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Speaker 3: threw shapes and sodas out of us. They called us actors.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, come work one shift in my ICU. You'll

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Speaker 3: feel differently at my hospital. In the eleven months that

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Speaker 3: I was there, and I had one thousand and eighty

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Speaker 3: nine COVID patients on events, and seventeen of them lived

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Speaker 3: to leave the hospital.

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Speaker 2: So what year did you begin your career? What year

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Speaker 2: did you first work as a therapist?

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Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety and is that when you met Robert Fresher. Yep,

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Speaker 3: he went vipe up. Nice guy. He was funny, but

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Speaker 3: he was super quiet, so he would surprise you with

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Speaker 3: his sense of humor. I'll give you this one story.

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Speaker 3: We had a cardiac of russ come into the ear.

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Speaker 3: He had gotten up to ICU and kind of have

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Speaker 3: a twit for a nurse. So the intensivist comes up

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Speaker 3: and he wants to see her notes, and she's all

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Speaker 3: flustered because they're not complete. So she starts telling them

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Speaker 3: Doctor Hammond, I had to do this and this and

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Speaker 3: this and this, and finally he's like, Evlin, I'm not

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Speaker 3: grating your notes, and she goes back into her spiel

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Speaker 3: of hell, they're not complete, but it's not our fault.

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Speaker 3: So doctor Hammond says, you know, Everylin, you would get

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Speaker 3: a lot further with me if just periodically you compliment me,

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Speaker 3: like doctor Hammond, you dashing young thing here, please look

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Speaker 3: at my nursing notes. I'm in there, and Pob's in

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Speaker 3: there that this conversation's too good, So neither one of

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Speaker 3: us is leaving this room. Finally, doctor Hammond sees the

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Speaker 3: notes and he gets what he needs and he starts

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Speaker 3: to leave the room, and Bob lookes up and says,

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Speaker 3: doctor Hammond, you handsome hunk of steel, where are you going?

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Speaker 3: And so that became my name for doctor Hammon for

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Speaker 3: the rest of the time I worked there.

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Speaker 1: Humor bonds them tightly and helps them cope with blood

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Speaker 1: and gore and stress.

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Speaker 3: Healthcare workers become more warped the more pressure there is,

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Speaker 3: so the jokes become a little bit less appropriate. For instance,

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Speaker 3: every single stinky year, Memorial Day weekend, and Labor Day weekend,

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Speaker 3: every trauma center in this state is going to get

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Speaker 3: hit with vote propeller versus swimmer or a jet scare.

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Speaker 3: And let's just say that propeller always wins. The patients

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Speaker 3: that come in. We used to name SEVICI. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 3: we go darkly under pressure. That's where we went. I

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Speaker 3: got Sevichi. Are you going to bag and drag this one?

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Speaker 3: I can remember working a level one track that was

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Speaker 3: pedestrian versus train. The train never loses, and it was

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Speaker 3: a blood path, and about every five seconds or so,

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Speaker 3: Bob would have to take an alcohol wipe across the

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Speaker 3: goggles because I didn't just being covered and what he

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Speaker 3: was good at seeing needs and filling those for people,

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Speaker 3: And he didn't do it with a lot of fanfare,

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Speaker 3: but he did it really consistently.

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Speaker 1: Beyond jokes and moments of kindness. Robert was also a prankster.

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Speaker 1: Ashley tells me about a coworker with whom Robert had

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Speaker 1: a friendly competition.

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Speaker 3: He and Bob used to tease each other and pull

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Speaker 3: pranks on each other all the time. What kind of

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Speaker 3: thanks if you left the little bottles of say, Jurgen's

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Speaker 3: hand lotion on the courtroom table when you came in

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Speaker 3: in the morning, it was very likely to have been

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Speaker 3: replaced with the mayonnaise from the cafeteria instead, so you

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Speaker 3: smelled like the condiment aisle for any of the next

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Speaker 3: twelve hours. There was this magic shop that sold all

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Speaker 3: sorts of pranks gifts, kind of like a Spencer's gifts

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Speaker 3: but better. And it had these little glass files of

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Speaker 3: the most foul smelling stuff you could imagine. And it

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Speaker 3: was a pretty common gag that we would take one

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Speaker 3: of these glass files, this nasty smell of stuff, tape

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Speaker 3: it into the doorframe, I mean ky the inside door knobs.

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Speaker 3: So now you've closed the door, break the glass. You're

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Speaker 3: just being attacked with like chemical warfare, and now you

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Speaker 3: can't even turn the door knob. Take it off. I

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Speaker 3: was stupid, kind of juvenile things, but they were just fun.

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Speaker 3: Bob and a few of us might have stolen one

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Speaker 3: of the golf carts from security and driven it through

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Speaker 3: the air once. The things that you could get by

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Speaker 3: word for so much more fun. Healthcare was a lot

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Speaker 3: more fun in the mid nineties.

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Speaker 2: So if you would partake in these pranks.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he drummed them up half the time. The

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Speaker 3: golf cart was totally hissitia, Oh, they won't do anything.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I like living indoors and eating food. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to forge myself. I'll hunt you something. I

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Speaker 3: don't want raccoon. You know, we just had a banter.

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Speaker 3: We made more jokes than anything about like the Clinton

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Speaker 3: Monica Lewinski thing. We more or less laughed at these

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Speaker 3: poor people. It wasn't nice, but it didn't affect us either.

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Speaker 1: Jokes aside. Robert wasn't very political. With one exception, A.

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Speaker 3: Lot of people in our department were really excited about

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Speaker 3: Ross parole when he was initially starting to round in

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Speaker 3: ninety two. You know, the economy stunk and they were

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Speaker 3: looking for something different. So he was kind of in

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Speaker 3: that vein. We had probably fifty people in our department

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Speaker 3: in about ten or twelve, like, we're doing parole. If

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Speaker 3: this is the best the two party system can give us,

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Speaker 3: We're ing parole. And he was kind of into that.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember any reaction of his Oklahoma City or

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Speaker 2: Waco or the Clinton years, oj any of the seminal

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Speaker 2: comments of the nunties.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember us watching the Oja high speech. Chase

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Speaker 3: I had all of thirty miles an hour through the

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Speaker 3: streets of LA with the rest of the country and

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Speaker 3: laughing at it. I don't remember him expressing a view

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Speaker 3: whether he had done it or not, but we were like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's exactly how I'd be trying to ditch the La cops.

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Speaker 3: I'd be driving thirty miles an hour down the four

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Speaker 3: or five.

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Speaker 1: What about religion? Did Ashley ever see Robert reading a Bible?

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Speaker 1: Did he talk about God?

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Speaker 3: No? No, that was a family thing, and we would

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Speaker 3: get into some philosophical discussions once in a while, but

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Speaker 3: he certainly wasn't one of these it was going to say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the second current dance unless you're Trump and two current

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Speaker 3: Dans or whatever. He wasn't going to throw his religion

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Speaker 3: down anybody else's throat.

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Speaker 2: The way that he's been portrayed in the media is

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Speaker 2: as I don't know how to say this nicely, like

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Speaker 2: a kind of conservative runneck. Is that fair?

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Speaker 3: I think that's inaccurate. I mean, yeah, he liked to

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Speaker 3: wear overalls with or without T shirt, leaves the T

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Speaker 3: shirt off, Bobby work out a lot, is a nice field. Again,

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Speaker 3: I told you all roads lie data, but he wasn't

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Speaker 3: a redneck at all. And I mean, well, I grew

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Speaker 3: up in Atlanta. I can tell you a few things

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Speaker 3: about Redinck and he certainly didn't fit that mold at all.

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Speaker 3: And I won't even necessarily calm, super concernedive, just quiet.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember what foods he liked to drink?

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Speaker 3: This is going to make him sound like the redneck.

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Speaker 3: I remember being big on beef jerky, huge on beef jerky,

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Speaker 3: taking in there the overalls. We always ate dinner together

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Speaker 3: in those days. Most of us were doing either like

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Speaker 3: chicken on fries or burger fries. He was the one

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Speaker 3: who told me to eat fries with ranch dressing, which

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Speaker 3: the first time I saw that, it's awesome.

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Speaker 4: What else was he into?

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Speaker 3: He was really into hunting and fishing. I hate guns. No,

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Speaker 3: I'm not asking to take you away years there, just

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Speaker 3: not for me. He was really into his fitness. He

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Speaker 3: used to bent pressed the eight cylinders. They're heavy, until

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Speaker 3: he got caught and they were like, no, no, you

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Speaker 3: can't do that because if you drop it, you're going

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Speaker 3: to kill us all. And then he would do bicep

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Speaker 3: curls with the east cylinders. They're still a good fifteen

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Speaker 3: twenty pounds. And then when he got busted with that,

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Speaker 3: he would just pick a small stuff number he'd been

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Speaker 3: pressed through.

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Speaker 2: Can you describe Bob physically to me? Like, if he

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Speaker 2: walk in this room, what is he?

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Speaker 3: Sometimes he would shave his head real close. Other times

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Speaker 3: he had kind of a short blonde haircut, about six

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Speaker 3: foot two, probably went two and a quarter two thirty.

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Speaker 3: He was pretty solid. It wasn't heavy set at all.

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Speaker 3: He was just solid. Thus the bench pressing these tanks

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Speaker 3: weighed well over one hundred pounds, about nothing of it.

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Speaker 4: What about his back pain?

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Speaker 3: It would bother him periodically. I can remember a time

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Speaker 3: that he took a week or two weeks off because

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Speaker 3: he was just bed balanced. But they were preparing for

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Speaker 3: their first child and he was helping Mary set up

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Speaker 3: the nurser, but doing all sorts of home renovations too,

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Speaker 3: and had just aggravated it. But day to day he

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Speaker 3: didn't really complain about it that much. Everybody kind of

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Speaker 3: knew that he had had it, and it's why when

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Speaker 3: he would do crazy things like bench press the h

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Speaker 3: cylinders or his co workers, we were like, you're going

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Speaker 3: to kill your back. No, I got this.

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Speaker 1: As the nineties progressed, Robert's back pain got more severe,

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Speaker 1: but even as he deteriorated, he still went on adventures

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Speaker 1: with coworkers, hiking, fishing, biking. One trip in particular stands out.

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Speaker 3: And some of the air Ducks and some of the

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Speaker 3: other artists had gone on a mountain bike trip out

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Speaker 3: by Bartlett Lake and John Hatfield buried a wheel in

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Speaker 3: the sand. So he was biking in the buried the

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Speaker 3: front wheel and went over the handoffers smash everything.

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Speaker 4: He John Hatfield.

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Speaker 3: Fractured essentially every bone in his face, ended up requiring

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Speaker 3: an emergency trait. They had to take him in the field.

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Speaker 3: You know the bs things you see on television where

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Speaker 3: they track somebody with a big ballpoint pen. That's how

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Speaker 3: he came into the ear.

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Speaker 2: Did Bob perform the trade.

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Speaker 3: No one of the er docs did, but Bob helped

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Speaker 3: secure kept John comb. Somehow they allow Bob to fly

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Speaker 3: in with John. Had an identical twin. Bob was one

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Speaker 3: who got in touch with Peter and took care of

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Speaker 3: notifying people and organizing things like a blood drive, organizing

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Speaker 3: things like people donating vacation hours to John because he

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Speaker 3: was going to need it.

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Speaker 1: Hello, John, I reached John Hatfield by phone.

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Speaker 5: Robert Fisher was working as a restory therapist as I

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Speaker 5: was working in the same department at the time. In

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Speaker 5: the late.

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Speaker 1: Eighties, Robert started as a respiratory therapist, then was promoted

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Speaker 1: to cardiovascular tech, a role which had.

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Speaker 5: Him responding to the level one trauma center to help

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Speaker 5: put in central lines and chest tubes inside the trauma

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Speaker 5: room in the er. The kind of work that you

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Speaker 5: guys did, that's a high stress environment. There's zero margin

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Speaker 5: for error. Can you talk about what kind of person

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Speaker 5: drives in that environment? Anybody with a paramedic kind of

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Speaker 5: a background, or even rest for a therapist that work

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Speaker 5: in intensive care to have a low anxiety level When

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Speaker 5: things need to get done, you just kind of know

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Speaker 5: what you're going to do because you're trained, you're educated,

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Speaker 5: you know what the process is. So it's almost reflexive.

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Speaker 5: If you will, you don't have to think about it.

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Speaker 5: You just can do it. It's almost like they're stepping

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Speaker 5: back and even if though people may be on the

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Speaker 5: verge of death, you know that you're doing what you

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Speaker 5: need to do to prevent it. It's just through training,

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Speaker 5: the anxiety level is just not there.

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Speaker 1: What was Robert like as a person.

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Speaker 5: He was driven on exercise and fan off bills and

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Speaker 5: making sure his family was taken care of. He was

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Speaker 5: very traditional kind of a person in a sense of

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Speaker 5: family hierarchy. It was very much man goes out, works,

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Speaker 5: makes the money, brings it home. A woman stays home,

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Speaker 5: takes care of the kids. I can members two kids

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Speaker 5: being born. His wife delivered. There are two children right

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Speaker 5: there at the same campus where we worked. So I

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Speaker 5: remember both his daughter and Bobby Junior both being born,

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Speaker 5: and he's just being a big proud dad.

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Speaker 4: Of course, my boy, smile, you're on candy camera.

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Speaker 6: Boy, the keys there you go.

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Speaker 3: When he had his kids was probably the happiest that

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Speaker 3: I'd ever seen them. In fact, before I went back

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Speaker 3: to Resttory School, I had worked as a professional photographer. Well,

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Speaker 3: his wife had taken both kids when Bobby would have

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Speaker 3: been like three or four months old to sears, and

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Speaker 3: three times they had to be reshoots for whatever reason.

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Speaker 3: Film was destroyed, eyes were closed and I still had

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Speaker 3: access to the studio. So I'll do family pictures. I'll

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Speaker 3: do the kids together to the kids lull. In those days,

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Speaker 3: it was still film, so we sent out film. When

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Speaker 3: they got developed. I took the main shot from each

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Speaker 3: of those groupings as an alumn by fourteen, put them

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Speaker 3: in frames and hung on both the patient rooms and

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Speaker 3: I see you just to watch his reaction, and he

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Speaker 3: was awesome with that. I think knowing that side of

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Speaker 3: him is what has made it the hardest for me

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Speaker 3: to accept did he really do this? For the first

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Speaker 3: ten years I would have scept not a chance. Twenty

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Speaker 3: years now I have to say the FBI probably knows

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Speaker 3: more than I do, even if I knew the guy better.

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Speaker 3: So that's been hard.

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Speaker 1: The Robert Ashley remembers was kind, empathetic.

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Speaker 3: And super generous. Like I got hit by a drunk

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Speaker 3: driver end of ninety one and just broke everything. It

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Speaker 3: was twenty five surgeries from one car accident, and Bob

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Speaker 3: gave me, you could donate your PTO time. He gave

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Speaker 3: me like a couple hundred hours of PTO time. Fairly generous,

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Speaker 3: but he was just quite so. He wasn't going to

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Speaker 3: make a big deal of doing it. He wasn't going

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Speaker 3: to tell forty nine of his closest friends that he

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Speaker 3: was doing it. But he would just do things like

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Speaker 3: that t help y'all.

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Speaker 4: Outside of work.

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Speaker 1: Ashley, Robert and their families went to baseball games, water parks,

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Speaker 1: and concerts. Robert was a huge Garth Brooks family.

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Speaker 4: And when Pink Floyd came to town.

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Speaker 3: We have great seats on the field. It was a

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Speaker 3: huge crowd passing beach balls around stuff. That was as

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Speaker 3: I was getting to know him better and he had

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Speaker 3: seen kind of quiet and reserve. But he asked me,

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Speaker 3: if I was getting tickets, would I mind getting tickets

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Speaker 3: for he married to Joinette.

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Speaker 1: Another time, Robert and Ashley attended a charity consultor in

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Speaker 1: Sedona organized to raise money for a Native American scholarship fund.

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Speaker 3: So it was Jackson Brown, Bonnie Ray, the Indigo Girls.

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Speaker 3: He had never heard the Indigo Girls, but he really

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Speaker 3: liked because nobody harmonizes like them and let me go

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Speaker 3: back to like Simon and Garfunkel or something. He went

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Speaker 3: with the year that Melissa Ethrich was there, which was

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Speaker 3: funny because I never saw but other friends who were

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Speaker 3: probably's such a homophobe. I never had him say anything

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Speaker 3: or act in any way that made me believe that,

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Speaker 3: And considering that particular concert, looks see between the Indigo

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Speaker 3: Girls Melissa Etheridge, if he was as big a homophobe

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Speaker 3: as people in their own minds made them out to be.

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Speaker 3: You sure wouldn't have known it that day.

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Speaker 1: This brings me to an interesting point, Robert Fisher's sexuality.

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Speaker 1: It comes up unexpectedly. When I interviewed former FBI agent

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Speaker 1: Bob Caldwell.

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Speaker 6: There was a point that they thought maybe he might

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Speaker 6: be Someone had mentioned that he might be homosexual, and

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Speaker 6: maybe it was his homosexual.

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Speaker 1: Lover who helped him escape after he killed his family.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember who speculator that he was gay.

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Speaker 6: I believe that was his pastor, friend that he grew

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Speaker 6: up with in high school that was counseling him and Mary.

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Speaker 6: I believe he was the first one to mention that

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Speaker 6: he might have been gay.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about Ken. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ken Hodgson was one of Robert's closest friends in Confidants.

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Speaker 1: They grew up together. Ken later became a pastor and

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Speaker 1: for many year Robert attended his church. If Robert told

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Speaker 1: anyone he was gay, it would have been Ken. I

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Speaker 1: try reaching Ken, but he never responds. Now, let me

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Speaker 1: paint a picture of two men. One is a gun

359
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,159
Speaker 1: toting hunter and fisherman who drives a pickup, loves country

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00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: music and allegedly has affairs with women. The other is

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Speaker 1: a fitness obsessed wanna be nurse who likes tight shirts,

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00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 1: was in the Navy and jams out to the Indigo girls.

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Speaker 1: They're both Robert Fisher. This is not about his sexuality.

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00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 1: It's about stereotypes, good, evil, gay, straight, and integrity and storytelling.

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Speaker 1: I have all the power here. Either version of the

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Speaker 1: truth I choose is technically true?

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Speaker 4: What is truth?

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Speaker 2: Though?

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Speaker 4: What is real?

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Speaker 1: These are perhaps the defining questions of our era, which

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Speaker 1: is why I want to illustrate, briefly, in a tiny way,

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Speaker 1: how storytellers, reporters, entertainers, dictators can warp what you think.

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Speaker 1: It's possible to lie by telling the truth, by cherry

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Speaker 1: picking narrow truths that fit your chosen narrative. As far

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Speaker 1: as Robert's sexuality.

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Speaker 4: Who knows.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he was gay, maybe he was straight, maybe he

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Speaker 1: was bisexual. No one can answer that except Robert himself

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Speaker 1: or maybe his pastor friend Ken Ken or Robert I'm here,

380
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 1: call me.

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00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 3: I'm not into conspiracy theories. Think those people are idiots.

382
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 1: Creator honestly Ashley again, But I bought into Lue a

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Speaker 1: persistent rumor that Robert had an affair.

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Speaker 3: With one of the icee and nurses that we both

385
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 3: worked with. Sure she went through a negliative force in

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Speaker 3: her hospit of the time, would call the hospital and

387
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Speaker 3: leave threatening messages for Bob.

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Speaker 4: This is a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Neither the alleged affair nor the threats have ever been

390
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Speaker 1: reported publicly to my knowledge. They'll be new even to

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. Ashley doesn't know for sure whether or not

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Speaker 1: Robert and the nurse had an affair. Robert never confirmed it,

393
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Speaker 1: but he does know that the nurse's husband thought the

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Speaker 1: affair was ongoing for years.

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Speaker 2: You said that her husband would call on Friday messages

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Speaker 2: for Robert.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that was like not even a secret.

398
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Speaker 2: And was this in the mid nineties, late nineties.

399
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Speaker 3: That would have been mid nineties kind of all when

400
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 3: oj thing was happening, Probably ninety five ish did it started,

401
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 3: was still going on dur ninety eight.

402
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: Do you remember anything about the nature of those thoughts,

403
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,719
Speaker 2: how frequent they were, what he said, anything like that.

404
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 3: There were some that you know, I'll be waiting for

405
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: you when you get off. But Bob was a big guy.

406
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 3: He was probably six to two and just solid. I

407
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: never met husband, but everybody who did kind of laughed

408
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 3: at Yeah, I'll be waiting for them. And I don't

409
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 3: remember a lot of the specifics out there than just

410
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 3: stupid tsasseronn Beard driven rants.

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Speaker 1: For three years from nineteen ninety five to ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: This man thought his wife was having an affair with

413
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: Robert Fisher. He called the hospital repeatedly threatening Robert.

414
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: How did Bob react to this throats?

415
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 3: He laughed them off?

416
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 4: Well, usually Ashley laughed them off too.

417
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Speaker 1: Robert was six feet tall with a lean, muscular build.

418
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Speaker 1: The nurse's husband not so much, but still.

419
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: There were some epistol off When he was mad. He

420
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 3: would get pretty reserved to himself, so you'd have to

421
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 3: choke with him to kind of get them out of

422
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 3: it and say, Bob, look at the sides, you and

423
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: Pevey Herman, who do you think is going to win

424
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Speaker 3: this battle? It'll be okay.

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Speaker 1: The threats continued until at least nineteen ninety eight, three

426
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: years before the murders. They had a material impact on Robert.

427
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: He first worked at Scottsdale Memorial Hospital's Osborne campus, only

428
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: one point eight miles from his house, about a five

429
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Speaker 1: minute drive.

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Speaker 3: Then, as rumors and the threats started coming, and he

431
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Speaker 3: went to share.

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00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: The shady campus was much further away, nine point eight

433
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Speaker 1: miles from his house, about a thirty minute drive in

434
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Speaker 1: rush hour. It's been reported that in nineteen ninety nine,

435
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,479
Speaker 1: Robert had an affair with Messuse. I'll get to that

436
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: in a later episode, but this is very different. First,

437
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: it's new information. Second, it's important to examine the word affair.

438
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: Affair connotates an ongoing relationship. The nineteen ninety nine incident was,

439
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: by all accounts, a one time sexual encounter, not an affair. This, however,

440
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: allegedly went on for three years and was with a

441
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: close coworker, not a random Messuse. It was enough to

442
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: force Robert to move from one hospital near his house

443
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: to another far away. The implications of this alleged affair

444
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: and the threats Robert received are potentially important. I haven't

445
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: seen any evidence that law enforcement interviewed the nurse implicated

446
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: in the alleged affair. I also haven't seen any evidence

447
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: they considered her husband a possible suspect. But after the

448
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: murders Ashley did.

449
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 3: If he didn't do it, who else in the world

450
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 3: or would ever want to do anything to hurt with

451
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 3: his family, and the only thing that came to mind

452
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 3: was now ex husband.

453
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to reach the nurse's husband, but I

454
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: did speak briefly by phone to the nurse.

455
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 4: She vehemently denied any.

456
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: Affair quote bullshit never happened. If you like this show,

457
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: please download our first two seasons, Missing in Alaska and

458
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: Missing on nine to eleven. For updates, visit meon thirty

459
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: three dot com or follow me on Twitter at John

460
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: waalzac jo n Wa l Czak. Thanks for listening. The

461
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: alleged affair and violent threats are the first bombshell of

462
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: my interview with Ashley. The second is the caves. After

463
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: the murders, investigators called ash and asked about.

464
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 3: Places that Bob liked to hang out. Where did he

465
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 3: like to camp from with I don't camp, but if

466
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: he's alive, and if he's in Arizona, you'll find him

467
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 3: in northern Arizona. Told him about Young because we used

468
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 3: to explore the caves. We ride mountain bikes there and

469
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: explore the cave some.

470
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: This has never been reported before. Ashley is the first

471
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: witness to establish a link between Robert Fisher and the caves.

472
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: Where police thought he was hiding after the murders, where

473
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: many people still believe his body remains today. A race

474
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: from your mind any image of Grand Hollywood caves. These

475
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: are tiny holes leading into claustrophobic tangles of underground passageways.

476
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: I had been leaning away from the idea that Fisher

477
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: died in a cave. Now I'm not so sure.

478
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: The SWAT team entered the redmand cave, but the one

479
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 2: that was closest to where the vehicle was, which is

480
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: right there, yeah, fifty.

481
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: Feet Gila County Detective Brian Havey.

482
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: Were they able to enter that cave?

483
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: No.

484
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: Deputy Kron tried to make entry into the cave, and

485
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: it's just too narrow. There's no way that any human

486
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 2: being could have crawled down in that one.

487
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 4: So I'm going down in the cave.

488
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: If you have any claustrophobia, you don't want to be

489
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: doing this. Yes, next episode, I go down into the caves.

490
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: But first I need to learn more from Ashley.

491
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: You know for a fact that he has some familiarity

492
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 2: with the caves.

493
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all hands down. I know he used to

494
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 3: like to go to Young and hunt that region of

495
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 3: the caves. I know he knew. He was the one

496
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 3: that kept us from freaking out when you'd take a

497
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 3: turn and then it would get a little tighter than

498
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: you wanted it.

499
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: So you actually went in caves with him?

500
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of us did.

501
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: Ashley, Robert and some coworkers went mountain biking near the

502
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: caves and decided to enter one together.

503
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: It was a great place to cool down when you

504
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: got overheated from mountain biking because they were a lot cooler.

505
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: When you say you went into the cave, how far

506
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: deep did you guys go? And how far deep did

507
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: he go?

508
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: They? You want pretty far because I came out a

509
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: different way then we've gone it. I probably want a

510
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: few hundred yards at best. Then skill was an involved

511
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yeah, I'm out. Were you crawling when

512
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 3: it got tight? Yeah? So initially you could stand up

513
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: and just walk right in. It was a reprieve from

514
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: the heat. That was a great place to cool off

515
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 3: during our ride. We kind of made it kind of

516
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: like our halfway point turned around.

517
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: Do you remember what time of year and what year mentions.

518
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: It was sometime between ninety two and ninety five, ninety

519
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: six maybe even, And you.

520
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: Said that was near young. Yeah, so it was very

521
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: close to where the four Runner was not.

522
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 3: Really close to where the four Runners found and so

523
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: I was like, that's kind of creepy. But I also

524
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: thought at that point that if Bob really did it,

525
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: they were going to find him dead in the cave.

526
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 4: But they didn't.

527
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: No one ever found any of Robert's remains or belongings.

528
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 3: I knew that he would never hurt the dog. I'm

529
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: not surprised if they found Blue alive. I was surprised

530
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: that they didn't find up dead. That sounds morbid, doesn't it.

531
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's true though.

532
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: On April tenth, two thousand and one, when Robert's house exploded, I.

533
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: Saw on the news. My jaw hit the ground. I

534
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: picked up the phone and called the number to say,

535
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 3: you have this wrong. There was not a.

536
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: Chance when news of the murders filtered out.

537
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 3: I accept this, not a chance on how he would

538
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 3: have laid a finger on either one of those kids

539
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: or Mary.

540
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 2: What was Mary like?

541
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: She was sweet? She was quiet, but really sweet, great

542
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 3: with kids like man, you missed your calling all those

543
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: years who worked for Bank of America. You should have

544
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: been teaching kindergarten. You would be great at this.

545
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: Do you remember if you would wear his wedding room?

546
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah? Always.

547
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: In fact, the night Robert kept wiping blood off Ashley's

548
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: goggles at work so she could see.

549
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: He ended up having to change gloves a billion times

550
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: because the glove would split where his ring was. One

551
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: of the things that I always remember him saying was

552
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: that he married up, that he got the better end

553
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: of the deal, and I thought that was sweet.

554
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: Robert also spoke lovingly about at least one other family member.

555
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: He had a sister that he was so close to

556
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: it that he talked about finally.

557
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: What did you say about his sister?

558
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: Just she was like a second mother, a friend, a

559
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: partner in crime, that she had always been there for him.

560
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: Later, as I'm packing up, Ashley tells me she has

561
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: a message for Robert's sisters or.

562
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: Whatever it's worth. And not everybody hated it.

563
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: Or even necessarily knows to sure.

564
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: Or even necessarily knows for sure he did it.

565
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: You said you've struggled with coming to terms with the

566
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: idea that he did it. Do you think that he

567
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: did it at this.

568
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 3: Point on an intellectual level, Yeah, I have to think

569
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 3: that he did it on an emotional level. I don't

570
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: know that all ever get there. If he in fact

571
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 3: did do this, it had to have been some massive

572
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: psychotic break, and I know that doesn't really fit the narrative.

573
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: When you see him on the tapes they've shown on

574
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: television going to the bank or go you to buy

575
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: supplies and stuff, I don't know that I saw any

576
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: supplies being purchased that he wouldn't have purchased on any

577
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: given day or the week for his lifestyle. So I

578
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 3: kind of was like, oh, yeah, you made that fitter narrative,

579
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: whether it was true or not.

580
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: At this point, do you believe he's alive or.

581
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 3: Then I think he's dead. And I've thought that for

582
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: a really long time. In the early days of it,

583
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: there were a couple of supposed sightings who wanted a

584
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: grocery store and pasion, which would have made sense, But

585
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: it wasn't him. The guy that they detained in Canada.

586
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: He was pretty good image of him, wasn't him. And

587
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 3: I have said from the very start that if you did,

588
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: you're not going to find him alive. He's not somebody

589
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: that would have said, oh I got rid of that problem.

590
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 3: Now I'm going to start this life I've been secretly

591
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: wanting that's certainly not the Bob that I've known him

592
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 3: in any version.

593
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: I asked you a hard question, Sure, how much of

594
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: that is objective? And how much do you want to believe.

595
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 3: That it's fifty to fifty honest objectively? Said, Look, his

596
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 3: story and his picture was certainly out there, like right

597
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: away out there. So I'm like, really, nobody could find

598
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: this guy. It's not like he's Deep Cooper jumping out

599
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: of a plane, you know. So that's the objective said,

600
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: And the subjective is it sounds more were to say,

601
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: you hope that one of your friends or buddy's is

602
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 3: but for his sake, if he did do this, then

603
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: I hope that he's not alive, because it would torture him.

604
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: In early two thousand and one, Ashley, her husband, and

605
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: their son spent a weekend with the Fishers at a

606
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: cabin near Whispering Pines, eleven miles north of Payson.

607
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: It was just before this happened, and we'd had a

608
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: great weekend together. Bob helped cut down the lembs that

609
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: were too close to the cabin. There was a stream

610
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: that went just below where the cabin was in whispered clients,

611
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: and he went fishing with Bobby, tried to show my

612
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 3: not quite four year old how'll catch a fit. And

613
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: then the next thing I know is not even a

614
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: month later, and I'm seeing this on the news and

615
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, there's no way he did this. That's where

616
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: he stayed stuck for completely stuck for about ten years.

617
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: So this trip was in March of two thousand one.

618
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would have been in February or March of

619
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: two thousand and one. And it was just a weekend thing.

620
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: We'd done it a billion times.

621
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: Ashley's son, Kyle, was only three and a half.

622
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: And it was a funny kid and he loved Bob

623
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 3: because Bob would toss him around like a basketball for

624
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: hours and you wonder why your back coats. Bob would

625
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: toss Kyle in the air forever. He loved the billy low.

626
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: She's OK, Yeah, I kind of missed this.

627
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: I pressed Ashley for as many details about this final

628
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 1: trip weeks before the murders as she can remember.

629
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: During the day out there, you could see other cappins around,

630
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: but at night it had a three sided wrap around

631
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: porch and the creek ran just below the property. Line,

632
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: and it felt like you were the only one on earth.

633
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: So that was our happy time. That was Bob's bourbon time.

634
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: And that was about the only time that you would

635
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: really see him drink very much. I mean after work

636
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 3: sometimes we would all go out and play pool together.

637
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: You might see him with a beer, but he liked bourbon.

638
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: He tried his damnas to teach my three and a

639
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: half year old to fish from the Greek. Yeah, he

640
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 3: was in and out of it, like he was a

641
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: child of immediate gratification. So when he cast the first

642
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: line and it did not come up with a fish,

643
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: he's kind of a pissed off three year old. Bob

644
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: thought that was funny. He was patient with him, and

645
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: he had Bobby helping him learn how to work the

646
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: net that trip.

647
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: Did you notice anything negative about his dynamic with Mary.

648
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: Or because no, And I think that's part of why

649
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 3: I was like, there is not a snowballs chance and

650
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: how he did this. I was just so convicted that

651
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: he did not do that. I would have seen something.

652
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 3: I kept racking my brain for did I see any

653
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: little argument disagreement took And I didn't. I didn't see

654
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: thing different.

655
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to hide long standing maurial issues. Yeah,

656
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: from somebody you've known for eleven years. It's not like

657
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 2: you knew it for three weeks.

658
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: Right, It's like the temperature of the room can get

659
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: icy in a bad relationship, and it never did. But

660
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 3: either they put on just a great, unified front or

661
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 3: they were doing all right.

662
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: One question I'd have for you is for people that

663
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: believe that he did this, I think it might be

664
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 2: jarring to hear somebody speak of the positive side of him.

665
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: Are you okay with that?

666
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 3: It bothers me that people are that way because and

667
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 3: I think it's just gotten more intense over this last decade, especially,

668
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 3: people only want to see you one way, and I

669
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 3: think one thing about me, I'm like, these are people

670
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 3: who didn't know them, who've never experienced that, and I

671
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 3: want to talk like experts. It bothers me. There's nothing

672
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 3: I'm bill about them. But yeah, that has always kind

673
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 3: of bothered me that in my experience, most people who

674
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: have said negative things don't never spend an hour their

675
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 3: life with them and didn't know them.

676
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: By the way, is this is the beginning of all

677
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: the same time.

678
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 3: Uh huh, don't worry it rolls too fast, but it's

679
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 3: kind of cool to see.

680
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: We get up from Ashley's table, walk to the back door.

681
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: Through the window, I see storm clouds roll in the

682
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: famous red rocks of Sedona, rise above the horizon and darken.

683
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 4: The monsoon is here and we.

684
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 7: Get more of the Lord there when I gonna make

685
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 7: a can.

686
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 8: O my way up here. I've been, I've been too,

687
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 8: could have paid up the pie. Oh good, this is

688
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 8: I love it up.

689
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: My parents love it up here, so I'm not.

690
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: But it's like he's from an emotional part from this place,

691
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: so American up. I'll come back with the need.

692
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: To stone all the pros may and you just.

693
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 9: Put in a brand new kitchen after bath Redd the pool.

694
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: But replace the roof.

695
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 9: Like our exit strategy always was it One day Kyle

696
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 9: would cremate us a BACKWASHICETU pull fill start still might

697
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 9: be the exit strategy, but it won't be from.

698
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: I haven't heard.

699
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, next time I'm missing in Arizona. Something says not

700
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: haunted like anurring a little cave near grave in the woods.

701
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 4: Cave near the grave.

702
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three

703
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: three new tips. That's one eight three three six, three, nine, eight, four,

704
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: seven seven, by email at tips at iHeartMedia dot com,

705
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: tips at iHeartMedia dot com, online at meon thirty three

706
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: dot com, or on Twitter at John Wallzac.

707
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 4: J O, n w A. L. Czak.

708
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: Paul Decan is our executive producer, Chris Brown is our

709
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: supervising producer. Hannah Rose Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemberline

710
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: is our researcher, Ben Bolan is a consulting producer, and

711
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer John Wallzac. Cover art

712
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: by Pam Peacock. Meon thirty three. Logo designed by Derek Rudy.

713
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: Our intro song is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download

714
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: the first two seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska

715
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: and Missing on nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined,

716
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: give us a five star rating. Missing an Arizona is

717
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: a co production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three