WEBVTT - Don 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:02.320 Previously on Happy Face. 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:08.280 Don Finley is the son of Julie Winniham, my father's 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.360 last victim. I had heard that he wanted to do 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.320 the things that my dad did to his mom to me. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.119 I want him to know how sorry I am for 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:21.520 what my father did. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:23.239 I think he's behind me. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.640 He looks, he looks tense. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:31.240 She walks up to down and without saying anything, he 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.840 opens up his arms and they embrace. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.440 She was a kind hearted, good soul, and he broke 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.159 every rule that he ever had set for victims. That 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.559 he was going to do this too, right right, My 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.440 mom broke every rule because of her soul. He felt 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:46.599 something different with her. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.040 The detectives came up to Spokane and they questioned my 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:56.000 mom that she said, of your dad's jail for Bruder, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:58.480 I want to know what you saw. 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.640 No one knows this. I haven't told anybody. They open 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.880 up a room, white walls, silver table. My mom has 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.559 a sheet covered up to her neck. That's the last 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:10.520 time I saw that all. 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.080 This was a multi year relationship. And if he could 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.680 do that to her, he could do that to anybody. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.360 Julie was found when a local resident stopped to take 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:22.320 a scenic picture. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.520 Why did the universe tell that person to stop right here? 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.560 If your mom's body wasn't found, he would. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.480 Still be out there today, the pies, the. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:44.479 Pies with the sun. I don't know, shine O shi, Oh, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:00.000 what did. 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.560 You think about doing to keep it? 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:04.760 You really want to know that? 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:06.240 Yeah? 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:06.520 I do. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.919 I mean I've had I wanted to torture him. I've 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.799 thought of burying him up to you know what I mean, 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.600 just cutting little cuts and like animals, you know, all 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:26.359 kinds of sick and twisted thoughts. Those aren't normal thoughts. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.440 What do you think when you had those thoughts? 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:36.880 They were wrong? It's not right, but it was Yeah, 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.960 I've had wild, wild, wild thoughts. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:50.960 Gandhi once said, the weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.280 the attribute of the strong. But how do some find 0:02:55.280 --> 0:03:00.440 the strength to forgive the unforgivable. I'm Lauren Bright Checko 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:02.760 and this is happy face. 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.320 From The Oregonian, December twentieth, nineteen ninety five by John 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.560 Painter Junior. The last of Keith Hunter Jesperson's sentences for 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.960 three Northwest murders was handed down Tuesday, when a Clark 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.240 County judge ordered him to serve a minimum of thirty 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.440 four and a half years in prison for killing a 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:31.400 Cavas woman last March. He earlier had admitted strangling Julie Winningham, 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.120 forty three, and the sleeper of his long haul truck. 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.320 The sentence will be served consecutively to two consecutive Oregon 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.680 murder sentences, guaranteeing that Jesperson forty will die in prison. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.560 At the sentencing, Winningham's son Don Finley, described the mother 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:52.080 as a kind person willing to help others. Quote, you 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:58.440 killed her, putting her family in darkness. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.600 Melissa, Noel and I had spent an emotional few hours 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.440 with Don. We'd had him walk us through what he'd 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.480 gone through after Keith had brutally murdered his mom, Julianne Winningham, 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.440 How hard it was to be surrounded by the things 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.720 that reminded him of his mom and the tails spin 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.240 it had put his life in. But the thing that 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.680 Melissa wanted to truly understand was after carrying such anger, 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.520 how did Don come to a place where he truly 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:31.600 felt healed and how did he learn to forgive? Did 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.240 you think about bringing a gun into the Oh? 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:39.479 Yeah, they didn't have mental detectors every day of the trial. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:44.240 They didn't have metal detectors. One day I walked out 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.760 of the court. I was from me to your father. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.599 There was nothing stopping me. He was full of shackles, 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.039 nothing stopping me from just going at him. I didn't 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.160 know then, but I know now why I didn't do it, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.200 because he would have won. We are not here to 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:06.160 take another life. Okay, it would have been over. He 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.720 would have won because I went to his level of 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.360 killing another human being. And now I am happy he's 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:19.120 in there because your life has been miserable. My life 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:24.560 has been miserable. I have healed. Your father will never heal, 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:30.080 and that is no longer your burden, no longer your burden. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:44.000 Do you know about the two people that were convicted 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:44.559 for the crime. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:49.119 I know that Laverne was assisted, that her boyfriend friend 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.360 John was guilty of this crime, and that she manufactured 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.680 evidence to got him convicted and ultimately got her convicted 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.560 as well. But they were found guilty, that they serve 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:01.440 some prison time. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.600 And can I ask you a question, do you think 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.440 they deserve to stay in prison for what they said 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.680 they did or do you think they should have been released? 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.200 They should have been released. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:16.400 Okay, well, my opinion is he should have been released 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.520 and she should have stayed in because she's the one 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.640 who made the accusations. But they get out. As soon 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.279 as they get out, they make a movie about it instantly, 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.359 within a month, about their life story. Who are they 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.719 to bring this up? I was really pissed off because 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.840 if they wouldn't have confessed, they may have caught your 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:40.800 father before my mom. But no, and it screwed everything up. 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:43.919 He could have been caught, It may have never happened 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.599 to my mom. It could have saved four or five women. 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.599 Because this lady confessed to a crime she didn't commit 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.760 to get out of an abusive relationship. I've had to 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.279 forgive her also to be able to move on. I 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.240 have to forgive the detectives for not doing a thorough investigation. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.440 I had to forgive all these people for not doing 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.799 their job. And then I had to truly forgive your father. 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.680 I had to truly forgive my own father. I've had 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:16.200 a lot of forgiving, and you have to forgive, not forget, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:17.320 to be able to move on. 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.000 For all of Don's words about forgiveness, it was apparent 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.120 that jessperson had very much gotten into his head. 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:34.240 Do you know who Sondra London is? 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.040 No, I've never heard the name. 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.760 This is what your father did. Sondra London, who was 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.240 in love with a serial killer named Van Rawlings in Florida. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.080 He executed seven women with the machete. She wrote a 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:52.320 book about him. Your father wrote Sondra London to ask 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.960 her to write a book. She said no, but I 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.320 will create a computer book, diary or whatever. So your 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.760 father proceeds to write her telling her how great it 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.920 is to be in jail, how to get away with murder, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.600 how to do this. It's still on the internet today. 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.720 It's like twenty two pages. 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.600 From The Oregonian, September tenth, nineteen ninety seven by J. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.880 Todd Foster. Last year from prison, Jesperson wrote a Jacksonville, 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.960 Florida woman who's fascinated with serial killers and thinks society 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.720 should have unfettered access to their minds. Sondra London, fifty 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.000 then posted Jesperson's letters word for word on the internet, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.320 as she has other killers letters. On Jesperson's page, which 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.160 features a rotating skull, he compares his victims to garbage 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.680 he discarded along America's roadways as a long haul truck driver. 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.480 His most disturbing writings, however, are contained in the Self 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.000 Start Serial Killer Kit, which offers web browsers a line 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.760 life size blow up doll named for one of his victims, 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:10.800 Julianne Winningham. Winningham's son Don Findley, twenty five, of Vancouver, Washington, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.040 read Jessperson's website Tuesday and was appalled. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.840 He put in part of this stuff that he wrote 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.440 Get yourself Start Serial Killer Kit. It comes with a 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.880 two hour VHS tape of life and death situations that 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.680 are guaranteed to scare the piss or, arouse you or both. 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.960 Take your Julie Winningham blow up doll with an extra 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.080 spring back neck, take her mouth, put it over the 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:39.800 head of your cock, and you'll soon have the living 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:44.720 strength to squeeze the shit out of anybody. Why did 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:57.400 he pick my mom? 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:03.600 Your mother calls, don't wink at me in court? It 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:10.439 was fucking funny as I jumped over the fucking barrier 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.520 and was grabbed because this man. 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.839 You could see how much down was affected by Keith. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.880 He still carries that hurt. But perhaps what's most impressive is, 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.719 even in that emotional state, how he handled himself on the. 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:42.480 Stand Tanya's brother and sister. You know didn't really do 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.400 in court like I did. Yeah, you know you didn't 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.679 see the whole thing on court. You know I had to. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.560 I did the rebuttal to your father, and I told 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.560 him this is the last thing I told him. I said, 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.280 as Christians, I forgive you, and God will punish you 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.000 in the way you deserve to be punished. Your father 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.520 put his head down. The judge had a tear coming 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:10.280 out of his eye. The only reason your father is 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.760 not dead is because he didn't kill two women in 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.920 the state of Washington. But he did kill one right 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.640 over there and right over there, just a mile and 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:28.640 a half difference. What are your triggers like? 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:32.600 What triggers you? Even now, having done all the work 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.680 and feeling like you've healed, you were saying that it's everywhere, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.040 It's like Emuji's, it's Walmart. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:39.240 Why? 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.600 Oh, it was because only because of the simple fact 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.880 of the title they gave him on the Happy Face Killer. Psychologically, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.400 that messed with my head. Everywhere I saw it would 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.600 be a reminder of him. Now that I'm healed, I'm 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.400 over it. But it was his thing. He's not I 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.000 can't let that beat me up because he'll still win. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.280 As long as I have something going in me that 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.880 he did, I'm never gonna hear. So I have to 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.560 release it, no matter how much it hurts. So you 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:13.720 would you saw it everywhere everywhere, everywhere, back of jeeps, Walmart, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.199 people's clothes. How many people walk around with the happy 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.560 face with the bullet in the head, You know how 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.920 many people walk You know what I'm saying. All that 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.360 stuff goes through my head, you know, and I'm like 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.600 just a flashback everywhere I go. I see this guy. 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.680 Now many years it took me to get past that. 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:29.719 I don't even know. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.160 God, it's like it's literally like being haunted by a 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:34.480 real life boogieman like it. 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.280 And I am an overthinker, and I believe your father 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.680 did that on purpose. But then on the other hand, 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:48.240 I think that he was just being mischievous and smart 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.280 ass and signing it with the happy face, not realizing why. 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.520 It's exactly why he winked at you in court. It's 0:12:55.600 --> 0:13:01.480 his taking something so sinister and heinous and spinning it 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.080 to the polar opposite of like putting. It's his sixth 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.880 sense of humor. It's his way of mocking people's pain. 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.920 It's he gets pleasure from that, and this smiley face 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:13.520 is as a mockery. 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.080 I get it. Yeah, But why do you feel that 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.480 your dad used my mom's name in the thing I 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.720 told you about that you never knew about and didn't 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.320 use Tanya Bennett or one of the other six victims. 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.560 She was not his typical victim. I mean, he broke 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.040 all of his rules with her. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:39.160 I think it's because she stopped him. She's the reason 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.320 he got caught, and so. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:42.240 He resents her. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.240 From I the creation of a serial killer by Jack Olson. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.320 From his County jail cell, his curly brownish Maine shorn 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.480 by an inmate barber, Keith Jesperson continued his campaign to 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.640 muddy the legal waters. Most of his confessional letters were 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.120 sent after his own lawyer told him to shut up. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.800 The notes were uniformly upbeat quote have a nice day 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:13.439 from happy face. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.920 Regardless of how Don defines the relationship between Keith and Julie, 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.160 Melissa saw her as a woman who could have been 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.840 her stepmother, that in some parallel universe Melissa and Don 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.600 could have been would have been step siblings instead. There 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:48.080 now forever linked by the emotional scars of Keith's crimes. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:49.800 This is a. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.640 I don't I have my own answer to it. But 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.720 do you think justice was served at first? 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.000 No? 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:01.280 Now? 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:10.040 Yeah, because he loses I told you he has a miserable, 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:16.040 horrible life. Me and you, we still have the opportunity 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:21.120 to have this open freedom, positivity. He's around, No, he's. 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.920 Around nothing but negative energy all day as his daughter, 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.040 take back your power, take back that guilt and turn 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.760 it into a positive, which you've tried to do by 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.920 helping and reaching out and doing what you do for people. 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.520 Melissa has tried throughout her adult life to use her 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.200 career to connect the families of victims with the families 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:48.800 of perpetrators in order to bring about closure and healing 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.280 and ultimately forgiveness. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.760 I think you're right, yeah, that there is some sort 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.360 of divine intervention. But this is what I struggle with, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.840 don I struggle with this, like, if there is divine intervention, 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.880 why didn't that divine intervention intervene and save your mom? 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.080 If the universe was telling this man to come and 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.960 take a picture, couldn't the universe have told your mom 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:17.800 to not be with my dad? 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.880 Like I said, there's a plan. We are supposed to 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.840 help the screw the world that's out there. We need 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.920 to show them that it doesn't. The evil doesn't always win, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.520 the villain doesn't always get away. We are here, we 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:40.000 are survivors. We did this. It's been twenty two years. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:45.680 We're done, We're over it. Let's do us. The only 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.680 animosity you have is something that you had no control over, 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.160 and I had no control over. So why should we 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.760 let it control us any longer. It wasn't your choice 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.760 to do what he did. It wasn't my choice. But 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.160 yet we're letting his choices control ourselves. 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.479 Melissa's most deeply rooted fear is that she is somehow 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:25.920 like her father, capable of terrible things. Don almost immediately 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:31.560 sensed the opposite. He didn't see the capacity for evil 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:32.640 in her at all. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:43.720 You obviously are not him. Okay, obviously you're not, So 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.920 that needs to be the first thing. I'm scared, though, 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.640 That's the first thing you need to get out. You're nothing. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:53.920 But I'm scared I look like him. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.000 No, I have no from him. That's okay, because my 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:00.280 heart is so turned off. 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.119 I'm afraid I've built like him that I don't know 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.200 I don't hurt people, but I'm scared. 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:11.640 You're not like him because of that. You're like blocking 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.000 feelings and being cold, whatever you think it may be. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:19.040 Because this has been damaged so bad, all it did 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.239 was get covered up and covered up and covered up 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:26.080 and covered up a scar. You can bring this up 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.880 one hundred more times on television and that scab wouldn't reopen. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:34.560 It is a scar. I am okay. I am convinced 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.359 that he is where he deserves to be. My mom's 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.919 in a better place, and he gave this to me 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.399 and you to pass on to people, and no matter 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.680 what we go through in life, we can make it. 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:00.240 Don also believed there was nothing accidental about the in 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.320 which his mother's body was found. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:10.320 Life leads us in a weird path, and we are 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.320 the ying and the yang of one in three point 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.560 one million. Did you know that the odds of what 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.160 your dad did to my mom is one in three 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.359 point one million. Have you met that many people in 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.679 your life? No. I have traveled to the United States. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.680 I have gone as far as the Caribbean to run away, 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.520 and I still the universe brings me back here. I 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.160 moved all the way to Saint Thomas to the top 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.280 of an island. Leave me alone. No one will know 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.560 anything about me unless I won't tell them. But I 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.639 still end up right back here. I worked in the 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.280 town for six years as a local bartender, heard stories 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.640 about my mom. People come across me every day and say, 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.640 your name's not Leeroy, or people call me up out 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.280 of the blue, I've seen her on television again, I 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.000 saw you on television, so out of the blue, I 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.480 would get random calls. People would be facebooking me from 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.800 all around the country, thinking I can help them, you know. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.760 So there was a lot going on. But to be 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:19.280 able to heal, I told myself that your father needed 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:26.840 to be put away. My mom lived a fulfilled, happy life. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:33.920 It was her time to go to a better place. Yes, no, 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:39.920 because God has a plan. Okay, no, God has Yes, 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.400 he does. Well, let's not call it God. Let's call 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.640 it the universe. Our universe has a plan for each 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:51.480 and every one of us, and it isn't a kind world. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.480 I can't believe you see it so nice. I wish 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.600 I could see this. I want to help you feel it. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:04.280 You gotta have to let me because otherwise you're gonna 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:05.679 end up the old cat lady. 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.000 Yeah, that would be. 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.639 Don Lee Roy, whomever he believed himself to be at 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:28.040 that moment. Also believed that the universe kept putting people 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.080 in his path for a reason, including a man in 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.200 the back seat of his cab. 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.480 I drive taxi and the weirdest stuff happens. I met 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.479 a gentleman who was about seventy two years old. He 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.679 proceeds to tell me that he had a family, and 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.040 after raising his family, he got got tired of working 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.200 for the man, so he decided to start robbing banks. Well, 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.800 he ended up getting eighteen years. He ended up in 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:04.119 osp We proceed to talk. It's a five hour journey. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.800 Come to find out he's been locked up the whole time. 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.560 Your dad's been locked up. So this man proceeds to 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.800 tell me what I already knew, how bad life was 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.960 in prison, but how bad your father his life is. 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:25.320 The stuff he told me made me happy because I 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.200 am able to eat a steak, see a beautiful lady, 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.479 go out and fish. You are still able to do that. 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:36.960 He will never be able to do any of the 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:37.880 pleasures in life. 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:41.480 Again, what did he say that his life is like 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:42.040 in prison? 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:47.720 Well, basically, your dad lives in one building. He's not 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.480 allowed to go out of the building. He isn't outside, 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:56.160 can't go outside. He is in PC's protective custody. 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:05.760 From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen. 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.600 Most of the cops and detectives who'd worked the case 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:11.959 were pissed that I'd gotten two people out of prison 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.360 and beat the death penalty myself, but some of them 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:19.040 still had a morbid interest and happy face. When we 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:22.359 pulled into the intake center and Clacamus, one guard asked 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:25.159 if I would pose with him for a picture. I 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:27.800 was put in solitary confinement in D Block to keep 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:31.639 me safe from other prisoners. Lady killers and rapists ranked 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.240 near the bottom of the food chain in the prison system, 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:38.520 barely above child molesters and crooked cops. I was allowed 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.440 one hour of yard time of day, no books, no cards, 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:48.160 no nothing. Wherever I went, the pointy fingers came out. 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:50.359 Everyone wanted a piece of the celebrity. 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:58.960 So I'm telling this guy the whole story, and he 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:02.680 proceeds to tell me how he's seen your dad get 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.280 beat up many of times. Your dad is known as 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.600 a snitch. Your dad is locked in his cell. He 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:12.160 comes out like an hour or two hours a day. 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:15.239 How big is he now? I can just imagine with 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:17.640 no exercise in a cage that's as big as he 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:19.960 is a foot wide. Think about he's six foot eight, 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.080 the sale six by nine. And if all you do 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.440 is put on wait, you gotta be uncomfortable. He never 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:30.960 gets interaction with anybody. So this guy proceeds to tell 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:36.320 me that he's even met your dad and had controversy 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.359 with him. And I have every right to believe this 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:41.440 guy because I feel it. I've seen the tattoos and 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:47.720 this is too odd. And this man told me that 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.280 he wanted me to stop at a bank so he 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:52.199 could rob it and go back in to shank this 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.520 guy because he deserves. 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:58.360 To die because he knew you explained who you were to. 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:00.680 Him, and the whole time in the case, Abrady kept 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.200 calling me the last victim's son instead of by my name. 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:09.159 He's like the new generation of inmates aren't willing to 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:11.840 do like the old school. Some up a long story. 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.600 He told me that he talks to someone inside once 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:19.440 a month. He said. The next ass whipping j just 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:20.720 personal notes from me. 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:23.880 Did it happened? 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:28.119 How am I going to know. I don't know. This 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:29.520 was just a few months ago. 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:31.320 Don't you find that kind of odd? 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:33.439 That added the blue? A guy like this gets in 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:34.080 my taxi. 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:59.800 Yeah, all of Melissa's fears about confrontation, about Gon's hatred, 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:04.480 anger about her father and what he'd done to Don's mother, everything, 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:10.960 it was just finally over and there was peace. In 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:17.120 a sort of strange, if not slightly broken way, there 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:17.639 was love. 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.679 I'm glad it's not the word. I'm thankful that you 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:25.720 were willing to take me out here and show me. 0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:29.879 I know this isn't I can tell that after this 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:32.240 much's time, you you know this is a place you 0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:40.600 can go to. But my mind is just racing. I'm 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:43.720 thinking of a million of things. I'm thinking about, thinking 0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:48.960 about my dad and my picturing it in my mind. I've 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.280 been in that cab of the truck. I'm picturing exactly 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.160 what he said, what he must have done, like how 0:26:54.240 --> 0:27:04.000 quickly I would have taken off. I mean, it's it's 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:06.399 definitely I can I can visualize it. 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:12.600 But how has healing on your own? How has it 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:15.960 shaped you as a person? How is it shaped like 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:17.920