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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by an empty

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Speaker 1: DVD case. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations of

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Speaker 1: our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash thinking

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Speaker 1: Sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: You never know stories of things we simply don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer too. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways the podcast. I Am Devin, joined per usual

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Speaker 1: by Joe and Steve. They can't even see the end.

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Speaker 1: I got to do it for him. You got to

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Speaker 1: do everything. I am helpless. You are Den does everything

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Speaker 1: around here. It's true, I do, I do everything. Um,

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Speaker 1: this week we're going to talk about a mystery, or

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Speaker 1: maybe a lot of mysteries, or maybe just one mystery.

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Speaker 1: Conspiracy could be a couple of dozen mysteries here, could

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Speaker 1: be could be a lot of spiracy. Yeah, show Steve

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Speaker 1: keeps trying to say a word conspiracy. Yeah, he thinks

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Speaker 1: that's the right word. It's yeah, it's pronounced bilthy. Controversy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one. That one. That one's actually pretty accurate. And

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Speaker 1: before we get too terribly far into this or inmate

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Speaker 1: at all, it was a listeners suggestion. Um, by Rob

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Speaker 1: about a million years ago or like a year in

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Speaker 1: February of two. Well, if you're a bacteria, that just

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Speaker 1: about a million years, it's true. Yeah, Or if you

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Speaker 1: live on Pluto. Wait, no, opposite, if you live on Pluto,

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Speaker 1: it's about half a day. Sorry, sorry everyone. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: thanks Rob, Okay. So let's do a quick overview of

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Speaker 1: this case, real quick quick click, quick quick click between

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Speaker 1: nineteen two and nineteen eighty eight, or maybe nineteen depending

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Speaker 1: on how you look at it, five or twenty six

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Speaker 1: depending sign tists slash humans or who were employed by

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Speaker 1: G e C. Marconi or its affiliates or closely related

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Speaker 1: to G e C. Marconi, which, by the way, it

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Speaker 1: was a very large British defense contract. Um, they died,

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Speaker 1: especially especially they really the big die off was really

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Speaker 1: the first for mus Yeah. And now you may be saying, Devin,

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Speaker 1: it's not weird for people to die. What's going on?

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Speaker 1: This was a huge company. Well, listener, you're right, it's

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Speaker 1: not weird for people to die. But these people were

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Speaker 1: all involved in a lot of stuff like you know

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Speaker 1: the development of the Stingray torpedo, or like Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: the Lucasfilms thing well, actually it was named after lucasfilm thing.

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Speaker 1: Literally it was. But that's actually what the media dubbed

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Speaker 1: a project that was going on with the Strategic Defense

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Speaker 1: Initiative Organization in the United States, primarily our allies were

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Speaker 1: helping us. Yeah, roll Reagan um. But the media called

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Speaker 1: it star Wars, so we're calling it star Wars. Damn it.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk more about Star Wars in a second. Mostly

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Speaker 1: the thing you should be paying hinged to is the

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Speaker 1: Stingray torpedo, but also Star Wars. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: the Jedi Knights. No, shut up. You can't make jokes

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Speaker 1: about that all the time. I can't do. Okay, These

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Speaker 1: slash twenty six scientists slash people all died in different ways, well,

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Speaker 1: most of them died in different ways. A lot of

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Speaker 1: them actually died in the same way. Again, we'll get

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Speaker 1: to that. Some of the circumstances were a little hanky

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Speaker 1: and some of them not. In all of them, it

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Speaker 1: was a kind of tight timeline for all these people

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Speaker 1: to have died in these like kind of mysterious ways.

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Speaker 1: Some of them are definitely suspects, some of them are

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Speaker 1: definitely not. But it's a Cold war plot. Well, it

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Speaker 1: might be right. I mean, that's the whole alleged conspiracy

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Speaker 1: is that actually these people were all in on some

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Speaker 1: really highly classified information and that's kind of weird. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of weird that they all started to die off.

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Speaker 1: I can I can see how we'd raised his eyebrows. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I think the way we're going to approach this

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Speaker 1: case is it's going to be another Devin lists and

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Speaker 1: talks for a long time case because I like those

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Speaker 1: right now apparently, but we're going to talk about uh,

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Speaker 1: star Wars and the Stingray Torpedo, just like really basic overview,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to talk about the deaths, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll talk about theories. Okay, so we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about star Wars, the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization. I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to call it the s d I oh and

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Speaker 1: the Stingray Torpedo, and most people just call it sd I. No.

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Speaker 1: I like sd I. Oh, it's more comprehensive that. Ok. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't don't do that. I'm just gonna abbreviate everything.

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Speaker 1: People hate it when we do that. We do so.

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Speaker 1: In the nineties sixties, the Royal Navy started to think

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Speaker 1: that maybe they should start developing their own torpedoes because

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Speaker 1: they were buying them from the US. They were, And

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Speaker 1: not that there's anything wrong with the U S. Torpedoes,

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Speaker 1: but the Britain, Britain's, Britain's British British thought they could

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Speaker 1: maybe do better and they didn't want to be dependent

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Speaker 1: upon somebody else for their armament. Right. That's yes, that's

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Speaker 1: the way we should be saying that. Not we're better

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Speaker 1: than them, but they thought they were better than us.

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Speaker 1: Good point. That tendency is a very very bad thing

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Speaker 1: to do. It really ever get into a large scale

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Speaker 1: armed conflict, it really is. And you know what was

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Speaker 1: happening around that time is the Cold War or was

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Speaker 1: about to happen, and uh well that was kind of

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Speaker 1: like a huge armament thing. So well, you know, they

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Speaker 1: they just had ideas of their own too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, the U. S. Navy is a little high

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Speaker 1: bound sometimes and they're thinking and and the risk though.

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Speaker 1: You know, they came up with the Spearfish, which was

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Speaker 1: just a what's the word I'm thinking of just clever, No,

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Speaker 1: not clever efficient, it was just it was just freaking fast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, they just actually would by by Mark forty

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Speaker 1: from the U. S. Navy. Let's build something around this

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Speaker 1: is better. Yeah, well, so the sting I'm sorry giving

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Speaker 1: is that, Joe? Is that what the m K stands for? Mark? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I could never find that listed anywhere, so it always

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Speaker 1: frustrated me when I was doing the research. Why is

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Speaker 1: it an MK something? Yeah? Stupid US Navy and their abbreviations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Joe may be able to like continue to shed

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Speaker 1: some light on some of this stuff. But the stingray torpedo,

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Speaker 1: or at least the very beginning concepts of it, we're

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Speaker 1: starting to be born in the nineteen sixties and obviously

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Speaker 1: they needed some help developing said stingray torpedo, So the

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Speaker 1: Royal Navy turned to what was at that point called

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Speaker 1: g E C. Marconi or just Marconi. It's gone through

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Speaker 1: a lot of different iterations. We're just going to call

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Speaker 1: it Marconi for the rest because it's just easier. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I think they got gobbled up by

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Speaker 1: somebody else. They're not even Marconi anymore. True, they were

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Speaker 1: originally Marconi and then they became g CE Marconi. G

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Speaker 1: CE was a company that owned them, and they bought

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Speaker 1: them out like in the late eighties, and then they

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Speaker 1: got bought out by somebody else. It's been this huge thing.

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Speaker 1: So we're just gonna call Marconi, Okay, cool, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: listeners cool, send me an email. If you're not cool, cool,

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Speaker 1: it isn't I Well, I personally don't think it's very

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Speaker 1: important to know what makes this torpedo important for this

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Speaker 1: for this story. I mean, people may be interested, in

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Speaker 1: which case, the internet's a thing, so look it up.

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Speaker 1: Actually it's I will say that it is very interesting

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Speaker 1: in the way that it operates. And yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: is the multi purpose approach that they took, you know,

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Speaker 1: from shooting it out of a submarine to dropping it

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Speaker 1: from a plane is pretty phenomenal. Absolutely, No, I think

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Speaker 1: it's as much as an instrument of war can be. Cool.

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Speaker 1: It's cool. Yeah, this is a cool Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: This is kind of the equivalent of the Mark forty

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Speaker 1: six US. It's like an air more meant to be

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Speaker 1: dropped out of airplanes and helicopters rather than shot out

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Speaker 1: of submarines. But yeah, it's a nifty little, nifty little thing.

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Speaker 1: And I especially like the whole idea of fines it's

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Speaker 1: been tried on other things. We Russian supposedly are trying

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Speaker 1: to send submarines, which is sort of paying out like

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Speaker 1: lubricant on the on the no, from the nose of

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Speaker 1: the of the torpedo to basically reduced drag and make

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Speaker 1: it more efficient faster. Yeah, it's kind of and it's

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Speaker 1: a cool idea, although probably leaves a nasty, sticky trail.

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Speaker 1: But yeah. Yeah. But the really important part to know

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Speaker 1: as it pertains to this case is that most of

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Speaker 1: the people who are involved in this case were involved

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Speaker 1: in the development or implementation of the Stingray torpedo, which

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Speaker 1: was top secret, relatively decent security clear I would say

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Speaker 1: totally top secret, but yeah, really high clearance. UM. So

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Speaker 1: they were either involved in that development it or in

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Speaker 1: um the Star Wars project, which came a little later.

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Speaker 1: Star Wars program was to basically to develop a missile

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Speaker 1: defense system to protect America from any kind of nuclear attack. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is the way dumbed down version. We don't need

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Speaker 1: experts to explain to us this dumbed down version. We're

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Speaker 1: going to just say this dumb down version. Basically, the

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Speaker 1: idea was to shoot down incoming Soviet ballistic missiles from

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Speaker 1: every angle not even necessarily so so Star Wars was

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Speaker 1: very controversial and it was actually like very ambitious. It

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Speaker 1: included surface to air interception, orbital intervention. And this is true.

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Speaker 1: Uh an X ray laser called projects called Project Excalibur

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Speaker 1: yea or laser is a cool idea. It's really cool too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we should start a kickstarter to buy our own laser

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Speaker 1: extra laser. And and I've got to say, directed energy

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Speaker 1: weapons have really come a long way. They had thanks

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Speaker 1: the sd I, I think more than anything else. Now

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Speaker 1: were and now we're fielding, we're actually getting that fielding

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Speaker 1: necessarily getting ready to field really high powered lasers that

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Speaker 1: actually can't shoot down. So this was early development of that.

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Speaker 1: It was super topsy. We're still talking Star Wars, as

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Speaker 1: you say, at this point, we're still the eighties, so

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Speaker 1: we're still decades away from where we are. Absolutely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So all of the projects that these or twenty six people,

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Speaker 1: well the twenty people they person is a little different.

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Speaker 1: But the people that we're going to talk about, we're

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Speaker 1: all working very closely on these heavily classified projects. And

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Speaker 1: by closely, you don't mean together as a group, because

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Speaker 1: they were they were you know, rubbing elbows all know,

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Speaker 1: most of them. Some of them did work together, but

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Speaker 1: most of them didn't actually ever interact. They just were

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Speaker 1: working on the same project. And these projects were large. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you don't develop an extreme laser without you know, having

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Speaker 1: a couple hundred people working. You know, that's not a thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I guess As a side note, I just want

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Speaker 1: to say that sometimes when I was watching Fringe, UM,

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Speaker 1: I started to really doubt the whole like, this reminds

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Speaker 1: me of the project Belly and I worked right for

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Speaker 1: multipleship and then you should, you should. But like, the

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Speaker 1: further I delved into the history of the Star Wars project,

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Speaker 1: the more I was like, oh crap, they literally just

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Speaker 1: pulled this from history. This is like, this is exactly

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Speaker 1: what we were doing. Oh god wow. So, like I said,

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Speaker 1: while there's some connections to Star Wars and to the

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Speaker 1: development of the Stingright torpedo, this episode is not about that.

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Speaker 1: So let's get going. Let's talk about some death. First, death,

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Speaker 1: We're talking about death now. Professor Keith Bowden. Professor Bowden

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Speaker 1: was a computer programmer at Essex University. He was an

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Speaker 1: expert on supercomputers and pretty well renowned for his work

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Speaker 1: with computer controlled aircraft, which is like totally ubiquitous now

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Speaker 1: but in the whole different, totally different. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: Pong was major at that time. UM. On an evening

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Speaker 1: in March of nine two, he died in a car

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Speaker 1: accident after um reportedly drinking at a social function. His

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Speaker 1: friends and families say he wasn't drinking, UM, but he

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Speaker 1: lost control of his car and crashed it into a

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Speaker 1: rail line that wasn't being used anymore, so there were

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Speaker 1: no trains using it or anything like that. Crashed into

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Speaker 1: a rail line as and he crashed into a train tracks.

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Speaker 1: How would you know? He went down an embankment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at the bottom was a set of training. Um. The

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Speaker 1: impact would have killed him. So he died. He died.

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Speaker 1: It did kill Hiyeah, it did kill him. But it

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Speaker 1: was apparently the impact right because there was no, like

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Speaker 1: I said, no trains or anything like that. And something

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say a lot here. You're gonna hear like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he ran his car into this thing and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: in use. How lucky, right. I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: did it deliberately, somebody else did it. Yeah. Next up

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Speaker 1: is Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Godly. Um. Godly was the head

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Speaker 1: of the work study unit at the Royal College of

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Speaker 1: Military Science, which you're going to hear a lot about

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Speaker 1: the Royal College of Military Science. Um. Not clear what

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Speaker 1: projects he worked on, but I think he probably did

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Speaker 1: work on a lot of the projects, which honestly might

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Speaker 1: be more of an indication than not not knowing what

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Speaker 1: projects he worked on might be more of an indication

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Speaker 1: than like if they had said, what don't these guys

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Speaker 1: were working because it was secret. It was it was

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Speaker 1: really secret. And in fairness, Godly may or may not

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Speaker 1: be dead. He just mysteriously disappeared in April of two.

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Speaker 1: He has presumed dead. And the reason that people presume

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Speaker 1: that he's dead is that his father died in ninety

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Speaker 1: seven and left him like a ton of money, not

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Speaker 1: a ton quiet but you know the modern equivalent of

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Speaker 1: over grandly, like a hundred and thirty grand um. And

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Speaker 1: he never named it, yeah, in today's money, and he

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Speaker 1: never claimed it. It doesn't He might be like Patrick

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Speaker 1: McGowan in The Prisoner and he's just being held in

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Speaker 1: a little little point village on the coast somewhere held

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Speaker 1: the operative word there. Yeah, it's reasonable to assume that

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Speaker 1: he is not under his own personage. I mean that

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Speaker 1: he's not really operating of his own free will. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I mean. Yeah, but he disappeared, he did.

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Speaker 1: Next up is Roger Hill. Hill was a radar designer

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Speaker 1: and a drafter from mar cony Um and he shot

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Speaker 1: himself with a shotgun in March of presumably on purpose.

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Speaker 1: A corner report says it was a suicide. So this

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring this up because this is We're only

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Speaker 1: three in, but we're gonna see this a number of times.

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Speaker 1: Things that seem very easily defined from the outside as

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Speaker 1: a suicide or or and we're going to see things

254
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Speaker 1: that are seemed very simply as just plain old accidents

255
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Speaker 1: or intentional loss of life are going to be wrapped in.

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Speaker 1: So this is gonna come up again and again. So

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna warrant people because I know people are gonna

258
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Speaker 1: be like, oh, are you kidding me? How is that

259
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Speaker 1: on the list? This is how the list is. This

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Speaker 1: let's just been I always use the phrase curated. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like this list has been very tailored because

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Speaker 1: I've found some alternate versions of it out there that

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Speaker 1: have more info. But it always gets trimmed more and

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Speaker 1: more as I read people that we're not on the list,

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Speaker 1: that we who were scientists and they were not on

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Speaker 1: the official list because they were outside of Marconi. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well there are some people on this list that were

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Speaker 1: outside of Marconi as well. But we'll keep talking about this,

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Speaker 1: and I agree that there are some that have I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely created. I think is like a really nice number,

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Speaker 1: perfect list size. It's a good number. It's always perfect

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Speaker 1: cla the top ten, the top twelve, the top twenty,

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Speaker 1: the top like this is the way those things always run.

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Speaker 1: So it's you know, sometimes you gotta pad that out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: evidently they did. Next up is Jonathan wolsh Um. He

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Speaker 1: was a communications expert who had worked on a number

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Speaker 1: of classified projects from our Coni. On November nine, wolsh

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Speaker 1: fell out of his hotel room window in Abbot John

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Speaker 1: West Africa. That's not suspicious at all, not at all.

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Speaker 1: Actually they don't have hotel room window in Africa, that's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's really easy to fall out, of course. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: Walsh had actually expressed to some ends that he was

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Speaker 1: that he feared that his life was in danger prior

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Speaker 1: to leaving for his trip for West Africa. So that's cool.

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Speaker 1: This is when things start to kind of ramp up

286
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Speaker 1: after after Wolsh, which is pretty suspicious, but yeah, I

287
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Speaker 1: managed to get along for many years without falling out right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he was only twenty nine, so like, come on.

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Speaker 1: Next up is vim Al dodgy By. He was a

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Speaker 1: computer software engineer with Marconi who ran most of the

291
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Speaker 1: testing on the torpedo development projects, so that would have

292
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Speaker 1: included the stay right torpedo and then the iterations thereafter.

293
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Speaker 1: On August fifth, night six he told his wife that

294
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Speaker 1: he would be working late and then drove about a

295
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 1: hundred miles to Bristol and then mysteriously fell two hundred

296
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Speaker 1: and sixty feet, which is eighty years from a suspension bridge.

297
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Speaker 1: And he had no connection to Bristol. He didn't know.

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Speaker 1: There was no reason for him to be there except

299
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Speaker 1: there was a nice high bridge. Except for there was

300
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Speaker 1: a nice high bridge. But I don't know why you

301
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Speaker 1: would drive a hundred miles for a nice high bridge.

302
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Speaker 1: I bet they're nice high bridges somewhere within that hundred

303
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Speaker 1: mile radius. Not necessarily, there's there's buildings to throw yourself

304
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Speaker 1: off trains to throw yourself in front of you. There's

305
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Speaker 1: other ways to kill yourself. Um. The police report initially

306
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Speaker 1: included a mention of a needle sized puncture on his

307
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Speaker 1: left butt cheek. Um. But then later they said, oh,

308
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Speaker 1: actually that that needle size puncture wound is actually that

309
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Speaker 1: that actually came from his fall of course. Um. And

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Speaker 1: I also heard that he when they found his body,

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Speaker 1: his pants were down around his ankles. I've heard varying

312
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Speaker 1: accounts of that. Yes, it depends on he did fall

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Speaker 1: into a river that Yeah, so he'd been looking forward

314
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Speaker 1: to starting. He had actually just been offered a job

315
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Speaker 1: in the city of London. His friends confirmed, as did

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Speaker 1: his wife, that he had no reason for committing suicide. Granted,

317
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Speaker 1: we know from our couple of years of doing the

318
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 1: show that there's not always a reason. There's not always

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Speaker 1: outward signs signs to friends and family. Now, one of

320
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Speaker 1: the things I want to know is did he jump

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Speaker 1: during the day or at night? I believe it was

322
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Speaker 1: at night, Okay, anybody driving by, some some big Russian

323
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Speaker 1: looking guys, maybe throwing him off the bridge, I don't believe. So. No,

324
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Speaker 1: the when his when he died, um, he was with

325
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Speaker 1: the he was within a week of his last day

326
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Speaker 1: at Marconi. UM, so that's a little yeah, Yeah, that's cool,

327
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Speaker 1: new job in London. Yeah, although you know, like I said,

328
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Speaker 1: there's no reason, but when you start to couple it

329
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Speaker 1: with a lot of other stuff, it's kind of like, wow,

330
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Speaker 1: this is this is a Domino story. This is as

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Speaker 1: That's what I always refer to these as is. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, the first one is fine, the second one.

333
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Speaker 1: By the sixth, seventh, and eighth, you're like, whoa, there's

334
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 1: something going on. That's what That's how the story gets

335
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah. I think I'm probably a combination of

336
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: actual accidents and natural causes mixed in with some murders.

337
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 1: Possibly it's a perfect cover. Next up is our Shads Sharif.

338
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: Shariff was working on a system to allow detection of

339
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: submarines by satellites. So that's that's cool technology, important technology.

340
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: Synthetic aperture radar is one of the ones that the

341
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 1: technologies they used to take waves on the surface of

342
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: the ocean. Yeah. In October six um Shariff placed a

343
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Speaker 1: rope around his neck, tied the other end of the

344
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: rope to a tree, and then drove off in his

345
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: Audi with the accelerated pedal, jammed down Um and effectively

346
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Speaker 1: decapitated himself. The coroner did decide that this was a

347
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: suicide because I don't know why. I think his his

348
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 1: brother Um actually went to retreat the car. He said

349
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Speaker 1: there was a metal rod on the floor of the

350
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: car next to the gas pedal. This was retrieved after

351
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: it had been in custody. You know, of course the

352
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: police take the car and say we're gonna check it out,

353
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 1: figure it out. So I always I saw that too,

354
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: and I was really suspicious of that because it means

355
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 1: it would have been in a wrecking yard and things.

356
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: You know, as I get in there, I've got a

357
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: thing in my hand from working on another car, and

358
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: I set it down and I moved this car, and

359
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: then I leave it. Like it's never described. Is it

360
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: a rod that it was of the proper length? This

361
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: is again, this is one of those things about the stories.

362
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: It's just there was a raw metal rod on the floorboard,

363
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: but we don't actually get any description to say if

364
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,239
Speaker 1: it could or could not have been used in a

365
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: nefarious way too, as is inferred hold down the gas pedal. Well,

366
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: the thing about it is too is you would have

367
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: thought that there had actually been a rod there, that

368
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: the police would have actually you know, taken it into evidence. Well,

369
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: according to all of the folks that really believe that

370
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: this is a genet conspiracy, this is examples of police ineptitude,

371
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: right that happens, or a willful cover up that too,

372
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: or maybe a little both. I guess. The couple of

373
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: things that add to Shrief's story, Um, Sharif didn't really

374
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: live anywhere near Bristol, which is where he committed suicide.

375
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: And he had actually spent the last night of his

376
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: life renting in what they call a rooming house, which

377
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: I think is just like a hostel. There's no good

378
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: reason for this. He had a nice apartment and life Bristol. Yeah,

379
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: And he had apparently paid for that room in cash

380
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: and apparently was seen to have had a bundle of

381
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 1: high denomination notes, right bank notes, whichever, you know whatever.

382
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: Apparently the police were told about these this money cash basically,

383
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: and they they didn't make any mention of it when

384
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: there was an ins into the death. Um, and it's

385
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: basically just been scrubbed out of the record. I imagine

386
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: the guys who drove the ambulances and picked his body

387
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: up at the scene, probably found a new home for it, Yeah,

388
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: if it was on him. Yeah, that's true. This is

389
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: a messy scene. Tax is that what that is? That

390
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: he's going to pay for this? Yeah? If I gotta,

391
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: if I gotta put up with all this gross in

392
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: the second of his head and put it in a

393
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: paper bag. Yeah, Um wouldn't have stayed in a paper bag.

394
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: Most of the other guests that were um staying in

395
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 1: the same hostile rooming housing were all employed at the

396
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: British Aerospace which is actually where Sharif worked prior to

397
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: working at Marconi, and he had worked in Yeah, they

398
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: were doing guided weapons. Yeah, just say they were doing

399
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: similar stuff what he was doing for Marconi. Yeah, And

400
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: it sounds like he had been doing that prior and

401
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: then Marconi was like, hey, you work over here, and

402
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, totally, no problem. While that in

403
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: and of itself isn't really suspicious, it could have just

404
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: been like a reunion or something like that, it is.

405
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: I guess it seems a little weird because his friends

406
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: didn't seem to know about that. But it's just a

407
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: bizarre way to kill yourself, you know. It's a really

408
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: weird way to kill yourself. I have heard of it

409
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: on It's actually more common than you would think. I

410
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: have heard of several instances where people with a convertible

411
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: or like, you know what, I'm doing this, and so

412
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: it's it's not uncommon. But what I want to know

413
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: is I've never actually seen anything that's listed. Do we

414
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: know how much booze he had in him or if

415
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: any there's no mention of it. So in all of

416
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: the other ones, there's a mention that they were drunk

417
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: or you know, and he rereated in some way. There's

418
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: no mention of that in this one. So I can

419
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: only assume that he wasn't okay because they would have

420
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: mentioned it. I mean, the police would have been like, also,

421
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: he was super drunk, so of course he did this well,

422
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: And then that's why I'm asking. I mean, there's um there.

423
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: There is in one of the things that I read

424
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that how is it described he

425
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: had to use four lengths of rope to commit the

426
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: that he committed, but when they searched his car, they

427
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: only found a receipt for one length of rope, and

428
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: so that is pointed at as signs of foul play

429
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: by by conspiracies is you know, well, obviously he had

430
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: somebody had bought it because he realized they didn't have

431
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: enough to get the job done, because he couldn't have

432
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: gone fast enough to pop his knogging off. That's some

433
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: serious premeditation of suicide though. Well, but it could also

434
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: be that he happened to have a bunch of rope

435
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: in his car and went, yeah, I'm kind of done

436
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: and I think I need a little more rope, and

437
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: so he bought more rope. I guess I just think

438
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: like you. Okay, So what he like drove past the

439
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: particular tree and bought Oh that's a good tree. Oh,

440
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: let me do some calculations to see how fast I'm

441
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: gonna have to be going how fast? He's an essentially

442
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 1: smart guy. But you know what, you like in the

443
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: instances that I have heard about where people have done

444
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: this before, there's a bit of revenge in that. It's

445
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: a jilted marriage situation. I think about that I'm gonna

446
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna get divorced, and I'm gonna lose this

447
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: nice convertible car I have. Let me go ahead and

448
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: coated in my own bodily fluids before she gets it. Okay,

449
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: Well we'll we'll talk a little bit more about this

450
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: than okay, because I think we're verging one. That's okay.

451
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: Next up is Richard Pugh. Pugh worked as a computer

452
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: consultant and digital communications expert for the Ministry of Defense.

453
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: His death was ruled an accident, which I think is insane. Um.

454
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: He was found in his flat in January of seven.

455
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: His feet were bound, there was a plastic bag over

456
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: his head and a rope tied around his body, which

457
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: was then wrapped around his neck four times. Sure, yeah,

458
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: he did that himself. It was ruled a sexual misadventure.

459
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was ruled suicide. It wasn't even

460
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: ruled misadventure. I read in one place it was ruled

461
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: a sexual misadventure. It was ruled an accident. Oh okay, alright,

462
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: that's fair. Yeah, there's twenty five of these, so I

463
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: may be getting a few of them confused, because it

464
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: turns out this is not the only one that sounds

465
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: like this that happens in this So there is another one. Okay,

466
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: So that one was an accident, all right, okay. Next

467
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: up is Avtar Singhy don He was a researcher at

468
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: the Ministry of Defense and he had worked conducting tests

469
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: on submarine warfare equipment, which would have included the stamary torpedo. Uh.

470
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: He's another one that just disappeared on a weird circumstances.

471
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: On January seven, he was three weeks away from successfully

472
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: defending his doctoral thesis. So he would have been a

473
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: doctor basically, I mean, he would have had his doctor,

474
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: his degree, he would have achieved his UM, but he

475
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: disappeared instead. Um and then he actually reappeared four months

476
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: on the job. He did. He just kind of like

477
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:06,239
Speaker 1: walked away from his life with no explanation. He was

478
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: He's still alive, right, he is. Yeah. He had actually

479
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: finally been traced to a red light district of Paris,

480
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: and it was confirmed that he didn't really know how

481
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: he got there or why he was there weekend well

482
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: four months, four months and actually when he was found,

483
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: he was working under an assumed name and he was

484
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: working in a sweat shop with illegal immigrants. And he's

485
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: a bright guy obviously, I mean he's defending his dissertation. Like,

486
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: this is a guy who's really ambitious and educated and

487
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: well read. And you know, he's working for the Ministry

488
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: of Defense, and what he decided to do I guess

489
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: is work, like really just walked away from it all.

490
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: Is really really walked away from it all, like in

491
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: the biggest way possible. So that is kind of odd.

492
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: And I wonder if he retained his security clearance after that.

493
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: I'm I presume so he came back to work. I mean,

494
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: he continued to work at Marconi UM, which is again

495
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: kind of suspicious. It seems like they would maybe think,

496
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: you know, oh, this guy just walked away from his life,

497
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: we should revoke his clearance. But no, they said, okay, yeah, yeah,

498
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: come down back, that's fine. Well it's either he was

499
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: not working at stuff that was to to top top,

500
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: top secret, or or maybe they knew he disappeared for

501
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: a reason. Well maybe again, maybe they sat him down

502
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: to had talk and he told them he just won't

503
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: tell reporters or anybody else. It's possible, yeah, he um,

504
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: he was actually very good friends with Mr Dodgy By

505
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: that the one who from the bridge, Yeah, the one

506
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: who fell I'm using air quotes here, fell from the

507
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: bridge Um. And he when he returned, you know, he said,

508
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about that, and I don't

509
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: want to talk about disappearance. I just want to get

510
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: back to work. And Marconi said cool. By the way,

511
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: he didn't fall from the bridge. He was tossed over

512
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: the railing by a couple of big Russian guys. Maybe

513
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: we don't corn to jop. Next up, Dr John Britton. Dr.

514
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: Britton worked on top secret projects for the Royal College

515
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: of Military Science, then later for the Ministry of Defense.

516
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: He died on January seventeenth, nine seven, by way of

517
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide poisoning from his car in his garage. He

518
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: had literally just returned from a top secret trip to

519
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: the United States related to his work with the Ministry

520
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: Ministry of Defense, and he probably thought would be Ministry

521
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: of Magic, weren't you. He probably would be a great

522
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: idea to just sit in his car with an Asian

523
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: running listening to the radio. Yeah, totally wanted to hear

524
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: that last story on NPR. Yeah exactly. So NPR killed him, Yeah,

525
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: NBR kills yeah, yeah, or BBC, it's true. Next up

526
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: is David Skeels. He worked as an engineer for Mark

527
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: Coni and then he died the exact same way, the

528
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: same to the BBC. Yeah, listening to BBC. Um he's

529
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: the same way as Dr Britton did, but in February

530
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: of seven. The difference between the two is that Brittain

531
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: didn't have the uh the TV trope hoose going from

532
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: the window from the exhaust pipe to his into his window,

533
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: whereas Skials and everybody that follows does. Yeah. So that's

534
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: which I didn't realize. I totally thought that was a

535
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies like TV thing. I didn't think that actually happened.

536
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: Apparently it's just a quicker way to do it, you know,

537
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: instead of having to fill up the entire room, you

538
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: just to fill up your car. I didn't know people

539
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: sat in rooms with their cars running as a way

540
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: to take their own lives. Just when I'm getting it's

541
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: actually not that uncommon, I didn't know that. It's also

542
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: not that uncomfortable. Yeah's kind of go to sleep. Next

543
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: is Victor Moore. Mr. Moore was a design engineer for Marconi.

544
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: He died also in February of seven, but from a

545
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: drug overdose. He had just finished his work on infrared

546
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: satellites and then he was found dead. His death apparently

547
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: instigated an m I five investigation UM, the results of

548
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: which obviously still remain a secret. There's also a report

549
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: that the Ministry of Defense Serious Crime Squad like the

550
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: name right UM, did in a separate investigation into Marconi

551
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: that was started because of this death. I really just

552
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: want to be on the Ministry of Defense not Serious

553
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: Crime Squad, not as serious, right right, that's I think

554
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: that's the name of it. I think that's how it goes.

555
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: Serious Crime Squad, not as serious crime Squad. Well, no,

556
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: I want to be on the not serious as in

557
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: nothing is serious, because it's kind of sometimes what I

558
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: think we are. Yeah, we are actually actually want to

559
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: work for the Ministry of bad haircuts. You're halfway there, Joe, welcome.

560
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: Next up is um Peter Pepel. He was a scientist

561
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: working for the Royal College of Military Science. He died

562
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: on February seven. Yes, there's now three deaths in February

563
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: of this one was especially hanky, though he did also

564
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: die in the same way as Dr Britton and Mr Skeels.

565
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: His wife found him on his back, with his head

566
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: parallel to the rear of the car bumper and his

567
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: mouth in line with the exhaust pipe of his car.

568
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: He was laying under the exhaust pipe, essentially like literally

569
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: drinking in exactly what I what I heard is he attacked.

570
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: His body was actually jammed underneath the car. Yeah. Yeah,

571
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: So police apparently were pretty confused about how he could

572
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: have gotten into that position. It sounds like his wife

573
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: initially thought they were driving home from a function, and

574
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: then she went inside and he stayed out. No, there

575
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: was apparently like a weird noise coming from a yeah,

576
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: and so she thought maybe he had been trying to

577
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: investigate that and gotten stuck. I'm not sure why she's

578
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: an engine running when you're doing someone like that, okay,

579
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: because that's the only way that you can hear the

580
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: engine making the noise. I guess I think he would

581
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: like turn it off and look for something loose first.

582
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: And I I think about it is is especially if it

583
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: sounds like there was a little clearance und of the car,

584
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: and if it's been running you just arrived home, it's

585
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: gonna be hot. Your your muffler especially, it's going to

586
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: be you know, well, it will burn you. Actually at

587
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: one time touched the muffler one time and when it

588
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: was when the angel was running, and well, I was

589
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: sorry that I did that, and well, well I will

590
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: save it for later to say, because that actually gives

591
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: me what I have thought about is a potential explanation

592
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: of how he ended up in the position that he

593
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: was in. Okay, well, we'll talk about that in a minute.

594
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: He apparently, you know, reportedly friends and family, wife blah blah,

595
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: all say there were no signs of stress in his life,

596
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: so there was no reason for him to have committed suicide.

597
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: UM he didn't work for the Royal College of Military

598
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: Science anymore. UM he was in the research and development

599
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: arm of the Ministry of Defense. But UM People and

600
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: Brittain apparently worked together at the Royal College of Military Science,

601
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: and um People was on that same trip to the

602
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: United States as Dr Brittain was UM and he had

603
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: also recently just gotten back from the United States on

604
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: their top secret whatever. That is a coincidence. By the way,

605
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: have we did we say anything about the fact that

606
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: these guys are not all in the same town, they're

607
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: all over Britain. Yeah, I don't know that we've actually

608
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: said that. Those that of the I don't know half

609
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: dozen or dozen people that we've talked about so far.

610
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: It's not as if they were all you know in

611
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: one town or one city. They are all over, really

612
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: spread all over the country, all over the Country's important

613
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: to keep in mind, but yeah, it is important to

614
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: keep in mind. Next is David Sands. He was a

615
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: senior scientist working at a sister company of Marconi, and

616
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: he had worked closely with Dr Britton. He died on

617
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 1: March seven in a fatal car accident. He made a

618
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: sudden you turn on UH two, a lane highway on

619
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: his way to work who know who knows why, and

620
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: then crushed at high speeds into an abandoned cafeteria that

621
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: was out of use cafe whichever, the British calm cafeterias,

622
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: I've heard a restaurant. But it was down. It wasn't

623
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: like it was right on the edge of the road.

624
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: It was like down a little side inlet road that

625
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: he managed to go careening down. Yeah, he managed to

626
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: hit the one spot in that area that was abandoned

627
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: because lucky. Yeah, he loaded up his car with gasoline

628
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: can he had. Yeah, he had two additional five gallon

629
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: cans full of gas hanging out in his car and

630
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: they sort of ruptured and blew up and turned into

631
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: a fireball. It's weird. Yeah, it's like they were trying

632
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: to destroy evidence. Yeah. I think they identified him by

633
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: dental records. I believe so. Yeah. You know again, no signs,

634
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: no outward signs of a reason to suicide. Also a

635
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: weird way to commit suicide. But okay, that's actually kind

636
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: of very male. Men tend to go out in violent ways.

637
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: Yeah we've said that before. But like by pulling a

638
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: you turn and losing control of your car, that's the

639
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: things control. He lost control. Well, I don't. I don't

640
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: understand the you turn thing. I mean I would I

641
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: would think just you know, get on the get on

642
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: the freeway and just massed down the accelerator until you're

643
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: maxed out in speed and then crash into like a

644
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: bridge about or something like that. You turn out. Doesn't

645
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 1: really make sense to me. That's weird. He have missed

646
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: his turn. He may have said I'm going to hit

647
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: that building and then I knows nobody's in and it's

648
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: it's solid and my car is gonna go boom and

649
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: a hell I missed it. He flipped. But we'll talk

650
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: about that more later. Uh. Stewart Gooding was a postgraduate

651
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: student at the Royal College of Military Sciences. He died

652
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: on April tenth. Um. He was in a fatal car

653
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: crash in Cyprus. He died instantly when his hired car,

654
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: which I believe is a rental car. Yeah, I believe. Yeah,

655
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: he was driving it though like you'll see hired car.

656
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: It's not like he wasn't he hadn't hired someone. It

657
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: was an at taxi or anything. He was driving. Um,

658
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: he collided with head on with a truck, a semi

659
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: a semi truck, yeah, or a lory as you might

660
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: call it in the British aisles. The truck driver was

661
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: said to be totally unhurt, as were all the passengers. Yeah.

662
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: The truck is a lot bigger than the car. So well,

663
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought the isn't he the one that

664
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: the passengers in the car were also unhurt? I don't

665
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: think there were any passengers. Yeah, no, Actually I think

666
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: you're right. I don't think there was passengers. That there's

667
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: somebody else that had passengers in the car. Again, in

668
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: one of it's hard to keep track of it. It's

669
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 1: really hard, which is why I'm appreciating this fact checking. Actually,

670
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: usually i'd just be like Steve showed up. But now

671
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I think you keep coming. Um, so

672
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. I mean, that's another failed car accident.

673
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: But okay, this is one of the ones that I'm

674
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: going to call BS on for getting tacked. I consider

675
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: this attack in this is this is getting got pinned

676
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: into the list because we had to pad out to

677
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: a big number because he's not anywhere remotely involved in

678
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: anything else. He's on a vacation. Well actually he wasn't

679
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: on vacation. He was in Cyprus because um there was

680
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: the But but still it's they're carrying out quote unquote exercise.

681
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: That could have been an accident. It could have been

682
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: as a big truck driven by a couple of the

683
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: big burly Russian guys. Could have been either way. You

684
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: gotta stop blaming the Russians. It could have been the Cubans,

685
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, and not part of the world's probably Russians.

686
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: Next up is definitely wasn't the French David A k A.

687
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: Robert green Hall Uh. He was the contracts manager at

688
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 1: Israel Chemicals Limited. He died from complications after he quote

689
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: unquote mysteriously leapt from a forty foot or twelve meter

690
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: high railway bridge. He was apparently on his way to

691
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: work and decided to pull over and jump to his

692
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: death four hours after he had left home to go

693
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: to work. By the way, Yeah uh. This happened on

694
00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: April tenth of seven, same day as Stewart Gooding had

695
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: his little car accident in Cyprus. In Cyprus, in another country,

696
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: totally different country. UM. The I c L which is

697
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: is really chemical as Limited later revealed that UM he

698
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: had actually been positively vetted for Clarence and had probably

699
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: had access to secret UK and NATO data because of

700
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: some of the contracts he was managing for them, which

701
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: would have been connected to Star Wars and Stingray torpedo stuff. UM.

702
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: And he was working on the same defense project as

703
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: David Sands UM, who you will remember from the U

704
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: Turn incident the fireball with He actually didn't die immediately

705
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 1: from his fall. He survived UM. And the emergency people

706
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: came and took him way and took him to the

707
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: hospital and they said, okay, you fell what happened there?

708
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: And he said, I don't really know how or why

709
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: I fell from that bridge. And then he died a

710
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: couple of days later in the hospital. I have heard

711
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: different accounts on him. I have actually heard that though

712
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: he has no memory of what happened that day, he

713
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: did recover and survived. Yeah, you know, saying it's it's

714
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: one of the sources that I found. I was like, wow,

715
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: this is one of the ones that was a red

716
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: flag for me because I actually didn't see that anywhere. Yeah,

717
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: I didn't either, but uh, but you know, it is possible,

718
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: Like I sometimes you can get a massive injury, like

719
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: and you can get I knew a guy that was

720
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: a paratrooper and there was a guy in his battalion

721
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: or whatever, Yeah he was, and they jumped one day

722
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: and this guy's shoot didn't open and he augured in

723
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: and he walked away from it and then and and

724
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: he said, oh cool, and then he died later that night.

725
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: If he had massive internal injuries, nobody even knew, which is,

726
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: by the way, incredibly negligence on the part of the army.

727
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I should have had the guy in the hospital. Yeah,

728
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: every every major organ was ruptured. But it is possible

729
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: also to fall and sustain massive injuries. But it's it's

730
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: not going to kill you if you get treatment and

731
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: you get long term treatment for the time that it

732
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: takes two to be healed and corrected. Yeah, this guy

733
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: is and the things that I found was reported to live.

734
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: So it's possible. But but I could see a situation

735
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: where you would have so many ruptures in your body

736
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: that they just couldn't get into that sucker hose that

737
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: you have in your yards, just leaking everywhere. There's the

738
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: way you can plug it all. Not a Dutch boy

739
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: in the damn Okay, Yeah, well, I mean it's I

740
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: guess we can just chalk that up to I mean, yeah,

741
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's weird. I mean, it's weird that

742
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: he wouldn't remember ever why he felt. But there's also

743
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: such a thing as like head trauma related to I'm

744
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: not surprised at all either way. And it's kind of

745
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: weird though, like four hours later suddenly or just on

746
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: a railroad bridge jump in or falling or falling, you know,

747
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: it's usually pretty easy to stay on those things, although

748
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, if you're on a railroad bridge,

749
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: although what the hell was he doing on a railroad bridge.

750
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: Often railroad bridges don't have guardrails on because because trains

751
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: don't tend to fall off of them usually, so there's

752
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: no need to put a Actually do tend to fall

753
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: off of them occasionally. But you know what, what guard

754
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: rail is going to stop? You need to build a

755
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: tunnel to pretty massive guard rail baxed up. It's going

756
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: to be George Countess. He was a system analyst at

757
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 1: Bristol Polytech and on April seventeenth seven he was drowned

758
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: as a result of a car accident into river. His

759
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: car was found upside down in a river in Liverpool.

760
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: I presume he was inside it, yes, which I'm going

761
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: to say right now again, I feel like that one

762
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: is tacked in. I agree, especially because like systems analysts

763
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: of personal Polytech, like I didn't really find a good

764
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: connection to the rest of these is that we're in

765
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: this industry at this point, we we This story is

766
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: one of the ones that starts expanding, occasionally reaches out

767
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: and grabs a guy that's in the biz. Well it is,

768
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's in the biz. Died under what

769
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: could be kind of interpreted as questionable circumstances in the

770
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: like midst of literally within like there's a two or

771
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 1: three month period here where suddenly a bunch of people

772
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: are dying, So I can understand why it would be

773
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: looped in. I don't know that it necessarily is right

774
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 1: for it to be looped in, but I totally understand

775
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: why people see this one as as connected to the case.

776
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: Next up is um Shawny Warren. And this is the

777
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: only woman on this list, and is also that one

778
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: that we've put the question mark around to be the

779
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: twenty six. I mean, you keep saying they were involved

780
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: in the biz, but Shawnny, she's not the one that

781
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: I put the question Okay, is a journalist? Okay, okay?

782
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: Because I don't I I don't think Shanny is again

783
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: a good one to be put into this. I say

784
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: they're suspicion around her death. I don't disagree with that,

785
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: but I don't think that her employment had any connection.

786
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we'll find out the game. I apologize,

787
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: Please den tell us what happened. Ms. Warren was a

788
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: personal assistant at a company called micro Scope. Yes, just

789
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: like a microscope but two words. And this company was

790
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: purchased by Marconi about a month after her death. Within

791
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: a month of her death, she was found drowned in

792
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: eighteen whole inches of water. It's actually kind of deep

793
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 1: based on the situation, well, based on the situation um,

794
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: and was actually pretty close to where Ms David ak

795
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: Robert was found having jumped off the bridge. Um. She

796
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: was found gagged with a noose around her neck, her

797
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: feet were bound, her hands were tied behind her back.

798
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: She was wearing stiletto shoes and business formal attire. The

799
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: Corner lists her death as like open slash under investigation,

800
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: but apparently speculated publicly that she had quote gagged herself,

801
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: tied her feet with a rope, then tied her hands

802
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 1: behind her back, and hobbled to the lake on stiletto

803
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: heels to drown herself. Maybe he was being like Flip.

804
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: But the hard part about this is there's there. Her

805
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,439
Speaker 1: footprints were in the river bed, but there were no

806
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: other footprints taking her out to the point at which

807
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: she her footprints stopped happening. So you're saying, basically, aliens, yes,

808
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,720
Speaker 1: that's exactly right now. I I this has the stink

809
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: of murder all over it. I call huge bs on this,

810
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: like I wear stiletto shoes every once in a while,

811
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: and I swear to you you try you like we'll

812
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: get you a size whatever, so as you are siletto shoe,

813
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: and we will go down to the river bank and

814
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: you try to walk more than two steps without your

815
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: feet being tied in that mud. And you tell me

816
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: that it's possible that I don't know. I've seen women

817
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: in some pretty pretty snug little skirts that have to

818
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: do the two inch little jitter to move forward in

819
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: mushy mud on a river bank. Yeah, that the shoes

820
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: are going to come off your feet. Well, you know,

821
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: if she moves fast enough, as I saw it, and

822
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: Scooby doo, you can. You can run across the surface

823
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: of the water. Before you start saying you can, that's true.

824
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: It's really easy to do that when your feet are

825
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: tied together. Yeah, and there is there is all kinds

826
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: of hink nous with her death. I am. I'm totally

827
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: on board with that. And by the way, I tried

828
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: to pull the Corners report, also ended up trying to

829
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: pull the police report on her death, and then that

830
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: led me to trying to find them all. It turns out,

831
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: whereas here we can get a lot of that stuff

832
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: depending on where it happened online, Yeah, you can only

833
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: get it in person. In Britain. Well, we have a

834
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: lot of listeners in Britain. We should have called one

835
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, well, you know you also got to

836
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: pay for it. Well, they'll pay for it. I thought

837
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: we could find at least one listener in that every

838
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: every district that this was happening should have done that.

839
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: My bad. Well, and I don't. I guess I don't

840
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,479
Speaker 1: necessarily think, you know, I go either way on her

841
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: actual involvement. I mean, if Microscope was purchased by Mark

842
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: Coni and she was a high level executive assistant, she

843
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: would have likely seen most of the correspondence coming in

844
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: and out from the highest levels, which means she would

845
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 1: have likely had her own clearance, which means she would

846
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: have been privy to some details. But Steve Shaking said,

847
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: because I also think like that could be total b

848
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: s and like that's not accurate at all. You're presuming

849
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: that Microscope was involved in what Marconi was working on.

850
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: They may they may not have been brought in because

851
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: of their Star Wars and um, what was the torpedo name?

852
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,959
Speaker 1: Thank you, I suddenly forgot the name of the torpedo. There's,

853
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, something that was related to it. They may

854
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: have just been a company who had, as we see

855
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: all the time, a great idea and a great start somewhere,

856
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: and Marconi went, we're buying that all we're taking it.

857
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: It could have been you know, it could have been

858
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: a completely they could have actually manufacturing or you know, uh,

859
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: some completely non classified stuff. Maybe just manufacturing equipment that

860
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: Marconi wanted to I mean, I don't know, I had

861
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: no idea what. Well, so I guess we can all

862
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: agree that at least in her case, she was murdered.

863
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: But whether that has something to pertain to the rest

864
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: of these or not, who knows. Little case. So yeah,

865
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: next up Mark Wisner. He was a software engineer at

866
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: the Ministry of Defense. He was found dead in on

867
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: April nine, in the house that he shared with two colleagues.

868
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: He had a plastic sack around his head and several

869
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: feet of cling wrap Saran wrap wrap wrapped around his face.

870
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: May sound similar because that's how Mr Pugh died. This

871
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: death was also ruled an accident against sexual auto erotic asphixiation.

872
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't just it is always classified. This is Britain,

873
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: so they just call it an accident. Whereas we have

874
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: this weird descriptive phrase for it. Yeah, but you know,

875
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: Wisener was no into I think this might not have

876
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: been his only time of exploring the kink because there

877
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: are reports of some things. Apparently he had some articles

878
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: of women's attire so they was on him, So it

879
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: may not. This one may actually just be purely an

880
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: accident misadventure of this sexual kind. Fair. Yeah. Um. Michael

881
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: Baker was a digital communications expert who died on May three,

882
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: seven in a fatal car accident. He's the one that

883
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 1: we were trying to think of earlier. He's the one

884
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: who the other thing. Two other people were in the car.

885
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: They were well, they were unhurt, Thessian guys. I don't

886
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: think they were just two other normal British people who

887
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: were in the car that were not severely injured or

888
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: killed inside accident. Well suspicious, probably not as suspicious, but alone. Yeah.

889
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: Frank Jennings was an electronic weapons engineer and he died

890
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: of a heart attack in June of nine seven. I

891
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: think that's the dumbest thing ever, and just this is

892
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: another pin Yeah, absolutely, that's what I mean by the

893
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: dumbest thing ever. I should clarify. I don't think it's

894
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: done that he died of a heart attack. That's really

895
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 1: sad Sully that he's included, But I'm gonna includehi anyway,

896
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: because he's on every list you'll see ever, because at

897
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: this point the dominoes are just like right or just

898
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: randomly being yeah. Next up is Russell Smith. He was

899
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: a lab tech at Atomic Energy Research Establishment, which is

900
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: the name of a company. January, he fell off a

901
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: cliff in and died, which was ruled a suicide, even

902
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: though half Yeah, it's kind of weird because they always

903
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: say it was a suicide. He fell, like those are

904
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: the two phrases they use. They're never like he jumped. Yeah,

905
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: I think that's that's an odd attempt to preserve um. God,

906
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: I can't think of the word that I want to

907
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: say for for their their dignity, the year, their honor.

908
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: But you know it's like, he fell, that's what happened,

909
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: and must he must have accidentally fell? He fell on purpose? Yeah,

910
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: he fell on purpose. Yeah. Next up is Trevor Knight.

911
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: He was a computer engineer with Marconi Space and Defense Systems,

912
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: which is Marconi. On March, Mr Knight was found dead

913
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: in his home at the wheel of his car with

914
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: a hose pipe connected to the exhaust. I know this song. Uh.

915
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: Fellow female employee at Marconi claimed that she had found

916
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: three different suicide notes left by him, which made clear

917
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: his intentions of suicide. This female friend also mentioned that

918
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: Mr Knight disliked his work, but she didn't think that

919
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: he was depressed or had any kind of signs of

920
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: suicide or anything like that. Yeah, the next one had

921
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: chosen more interesting. Suicide method is the right word for it.

922
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: Alistair Beckham was a software engineer for Marconi. He was

923
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: found dead in August of eight after being electrocuted in

924
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: his garden shed with wires that connected to his body

925
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: I think via his mouth and then oh no, no,

926
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: you're right, sorry, I'm getting too switched. Um. They were

927
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: in his armpits he wrapped. I think he attached him

928
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: to his body body somehow. Actually it was like kind

929
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: of an improvised de Faber latter, and he had a

930
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 1: handkerchief stuffed in his mouth. His death is for obvious reasons,

931
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: still under investigation, because that doesn't really seem like a

932
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: suicide thing. Well, that's not how I would choose to

933
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: do it. But yeah, he taped them to both sides

934
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: of his chest, I guess, and I plugged in and

935
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: plugged the cord into the wall. That's the speculation if

936
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: he killed himself, right, I mean, it's because for all accounts,

937
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: he'd come home, he had walked the dog, he had

938
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: gone and gotten the paper, like he had done all

939
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: these very normal routine like things that day, and it

940
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: just randomly walked into the garden shed and wired himself up. Yeah,

941
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: which seems a little weird. It does, And actually to

942
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: follow a trend seems kind of like a Russian thing

943
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: to do, But I mean it does. You're laughing, But

944
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: like they like us, car batteries. Car batteries hurt but

945
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: don't kill you. Yeah, well, maybe they were actually aiming

946
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: to kill this time. And actually one of the reasons

947
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 1: that this might be even more suspicious is that also

948
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: in August of um they think probably auguste. I've seen

949
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: both dates. Perry Ferry, what kind of a name is that? British?

950
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: Was it? Retired army Brigdier and the ass marketing director

951
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: at Marconi. He was also electrocuted. He was electrocuted in

952
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 1: his company flat, his Marconi company flat with electrical leads

953
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: in his mouth. Apparently he spliced him like between his

954
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: teeth or attached them to his fillings and then just

955
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: plugged into the wall and uncomfortable. It just sounds bad. Yeah, again,

956
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: I think suicide in this case because his parents said

957
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: named him Perry Ferry. I mean, it's weird. It's weird

958
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: that like within a month, two people related to Marconi

959
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: died from cell phone administered electrocution in the same month. Yeah,

960
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: but he's weird. But he's the one that had had

961
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: not too long before that some near fatal something in

962
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: a car. He was in a car accident, he was

963
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: trapped in the car, and so he kind of had

964
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: this thing going on, according to people who are around him. Panic.

965
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I still think it's super Russian. I

966
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: like that idea. Joe is biased you. But also like

967
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: in a month, really to Doues electrocuting themselves, it's like

968
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: they hired a new hit man. I mean, I mean, like,

969
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: there are these clusters and we'll talk about those in theories.

970
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: But well there's yeah, there are like several different suicides

971
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: in this one that were rules suicides that are rather bizarre. Yeah,

972
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: we'll talk about them later. We will in just a minute, actually,

973
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: because we're very close here. Andrew Hall was an engineering

974
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: manager with British Aerospace. He was found dead in September

975
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: by carbon monoxide poisoning in his car with a host

976
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: pipe connected to the exhaust, which was ruled a suicide.

977
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: On board of that story, I really think we need

978
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: to We need to find out who manufactured those hoses

979
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 1: and sue him probably obviously there was a problem with

980
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: their houses because they were they were putting carbon monoxide

981
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: in people's cars. And then the twenty six one is

982
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: a guy by the name of Johnathon Moyle. He was

983
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: a British defense journalist and he was found hanged in

984
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: his hotel room in Santiago, Chile on April one, and

985
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: it was the rule the suicide officially, but apparently he

986
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: did a lot of the reporting initially on the Stingray torpedo.

987
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: There's that. Do you know who else is loosely connected

988
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: to this story? Reagan Danny Cassilero remember him from the

989
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: Octopus because he worked for what was the magazine Computer World.

990
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: He worked for it owner. I can't remember now, it's

991
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: been so long since we talked about, but they did,

992
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: they did some of the early reporting that was compiling

993
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: this stuff. And I don't know if he was involved

994
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: with it or not, but it's a weird link. We

995
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: always find the strange links between these stories. Conspiracy, conspiracy,

996
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: conspiracy Danny. Danny thought everything was kind of interconnected, you know,

997
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: as it is all different tentacles of the octopus. Theories, theories, theories,

998
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: all your theories. While either it's murder, it's not, it's

999
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: some combination of both. I think a combination. I think

1000
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: some of these things that hinky enough. So they were

1001
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: all murdered. Let's do that as a theory. They were

1002
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: all murdered, every single one of them except for the suicide.

1003
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: But as you know, like heart attacks can be induced

1004
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: by chemicals, poisons, they can. True. But he was a

1005
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: six year old dude. There's that too in the eighties,

1006
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: in the eighties, which in Britain was nothing but pork,

1007
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: fat and beans every night. Yeah, I believe that's true.

1008
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: Right to healthy lifestyle. Yeah, because my culinary experience with

1009
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: Britain is completely accurate. I agree. Okay, so we can

1010
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: all agree that it's not all murders. Can we also

1011
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: all agree that none of these that the theory that

1012
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: none of these deaths are suspicious at all. Is silly

1013
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: that there's no actual link between any of them? Oh yeah,

1014
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: that's silly. That's silly. Yeah, some of them are. And

1015
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, and there's also some of them. I mean,

1016
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: they could have been murders, but they're not related to

1017
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: the defense industry. Also possible. So I have a question. Yeah,

1018
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: it was a smiley face ever found spray painted near

1019
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: the bodies? Actually there was. There was a smiley face

1020
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: with at a certain distance of everybody. That's true. So

1021
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: we are going to go ahead and say that our

1022
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: favorite theory is that some of these are questionable and

1023
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: some of them are not, right, some of them shouldn't

1024
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,919
Speaker 1: be included, right, I agree, Yeah, definitely not. But there

1025
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,439
Speaker 1: were four of them, the foremost spectacular suicides, which would

1026
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: be Sharif and Sans and Beckham and Ferry at the

1027
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: very least. Yeah, those ones that we're talking Sharif, the

1028
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: deccapitation by Rope in the car. Well, hang on, Joe,

1029
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: let's let's take these in order, because you're you've you've

1030
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 1: actually ignored some that people have pointed out as being

1031
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: completely question really suspicious. Yeah, so actually let's just go

1032
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: ahead and start. We're gonna we're gonna walk through everyone

1033
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: of these again in order. No, we're not, We're not

1034
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: doing that. But let's let's start with um. Dr Bowden's

1035
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: car accident. He was the very first victim, the very

1036
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: first one, way back when before Little Devon ever existed

1037
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: in this whole world, Dr Bowden had a car accident.

1038
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: The story goes right that Dr Bowden's immaculately maintained land

1039
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: rover creamed across a four lane highway and plunged off

1040
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: a bridge, down an embankment onto an abandoned rail yard.

1041
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: Boden was found on the scene, and nobody else got hurt.

1042
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: Nobody else got hurt, nobody else even saw it. Pretty lucky, right.

1043
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: There was obviously an inquest in to this, UH and

1044
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: the police testified that Boden's blood alcohol level had exceeded

1045
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: the legal limit and he had been driving way too fast,

1046
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: so he was drunk. He's driving real fast and reckless.

1047
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: He accidentally careened off the highway. His wife. Dr Boden's wife,

1048
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: her name is Hilary, and her lawyer think that's silly.

1049
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: Not silly, it's a cover up, is what they think. UM,

1050
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: and actually friends that were with Bowden at the social

1051
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: event that he was at prior to his death agree

1052
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: he was not drunk. He um had been drinking, but

1053
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: he wasn't drunk. They also, well, the friends don't mention,

1054
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: but the wife mentions the condition of the car. They

1055
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: apparently had a specialist quote unquote specialist examined the car

1056
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: um and that specialist told them that somebody had taken

1057
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: the wheels off and put old, worn out wheels onto

1058
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: his land Rover, which I don't know. I go either way,

1059
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: Like all reports are from many different aspects in his life,

1060
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: that he loved this car, he maintained it as best

1061
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: as he possibly could, and he was a man of well,

1062
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean he he didn't. He was a man of means,

1063
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: you know. So he would have had tires that had

1064
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: the appropriate tread on them. Presumably he would have had

1065
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: a car that was in good condition. Um. But apparently

1066
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: the police said no, no, that the wheels were worn

1067
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: that was part of it. He you know, just took off.

1068
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: It could have been that, you know. Of course, being

1069
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: a man of means, I mean, this is something they

1070
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: look for. Somebody told his rex their cars. They looked

1071
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: to see you know, did did did he like replace

1072
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: his tires with old, you know, use crappy tires before

1073
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: he deliberately wrecked his car to collect you know, an

1074
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: insurance payout could have been Maybe he was trying to

1075
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: do that well, but he was wealthy enough. I don't

1076
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: think he needed he's I mean, tires have a lifetime,

1077
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: and there is a point when you come to the

1078
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: end of that tires lifetime where the tread is no

1079
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: longer safe to drive upon and it is time to

1080
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: replace it. And he could have very well been near

1081
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: that at the point at which he had his accident.

1082
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: And you know what happens when you take a severe

1083
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: turn and go across the highway and then down an embankment.

1084
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: Everything gets thrash. So it's entirely possible that his tires

1085
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: got the torn up. It's it's also possible that somebody

1086
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: at the wrecking yard went, you know, that's a nice

1087
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: set of tires, and they said he did it well,

1088
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: and they they switch him out, at which point then

1089
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: this examiner comes it's these are old. This is weird.

1090
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: I know, that's that's what I was thinking to let

1091
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like the guy probably had a really nice

1092
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: set of tires on there. The other thing about his

1093
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: not being drunk is that if he's at an event.

1094
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever been an

1095
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: event where somebody says, wait, have one for the road,

1096
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: and you suddenly have two for the road, and three

1097
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: for the road and four for the road, and then

1098
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: you hit the road and you're fine when you walk

1099
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: out of said location, but then you're five minutes away

1100
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: and it starts to hit you. Yeah, it's my understanding.

1101
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: It was like a work social function. So one, well,

1102
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: that's even more indicative of getting drunk. It's maybe. I mean,

1103
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: I think it can go either way. Either it is

1104
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: totally indicative of him getting drunk, or it's totally indicative

1105
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 1: of him not being drunk, which is kind of a

1106
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: bummer because it depends on the kind of person he was,

1107
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: and you can only take that from you know, what

1108
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: his family says, and his family says he was not

1109
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: that kind of guy, But I don't know. Yeah. Next

1110
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: up is Walsh, who you may or may not remember,

1111
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: was in West Africa and quote unquote tell out of

1112
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: a window. They he did have a flight the next day,

1113
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 1: so presumably it's not a suicide, although maybe it is.

1114
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: I mean, he was there for a work presumably they

1115
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 1: booked his flights there and back, so hard to tell.

1116
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: Our conspiracist friends would say that that is indication that

1117
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: he was not intending to take his life while he

1118
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: was there. Could have been an accident. Well, but I mean,

1119
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: it's also true that it is. It's totally possible it

1120
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: was an accident a fall. Next up, while we're talking

1121
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 1: about weirdness, is um dodgy by police say that he

1122
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: was depressed? His friends say no, So I'm not sure

1123
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: how the police would know and his friends didn't. But okay,

1124
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: you can look at a corpse and see like kind

1125
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: of bad. Police say he was drunk. Um friends say

1126
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: he had never had any alcohol ever. And I think

1127
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: that's a religion thing. He was Pakistani, he was likely

1128
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: a Muslim, and if he was, you know, that's that's

1129
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 1: a that's a tenant of a lot of different parts

1130
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: of But I want to be careful here, because his

1131
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: friends didn't say he did drink. They said he rarely drank.

1132
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: I've heard that some of his friends said he never drank. Okay,

1133
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: But well, the reason I say that is because, in

1134
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: the same reporting it is reported that bottles of wine

1135
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: were found in his car. Um and you know, and

1136
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: that's where I also get that it was the people said, well,

1137
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: he never drank while driving, but he would occasionally drink. Okay.

1138
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,560
Speaker 1: So the reporting I heard on this, and this is

1139
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like who knows right.

1140
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,480
Speaker 1: The reporting I heard on this is that the police

1141
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: um initially said, oh, he was drunk, and his friend

1142
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: said no, no, he didn't drink at all, and they said, no, no,

1143
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 1: he was drunk. They we found two paper cups and

1144
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: a bottle of an empty bottle of wine in his car.

1145
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 1: He was drinking with a friend and then the friend.

1146
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 1: I don't know where the friend went, but suddenly, you know,

1147
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 1: he was jumping off a bridge. That's what the police said.

1148
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, that bridge was a location that

1149
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: was known for people to go to commit suicide. Yeah

1150
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:08,520
Speaker 1: it was, Yeah, it was convenient high spot. Yeah, no, absolutely,

1151
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: I agree, but it's still kind of wonky that, you know,

1152
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:13,640
Speaker 1: his friends would say no, he didn't drink, and the

1153
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,680
Speaker 1: police would say, okay, okay, but we found this thing,

1154
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: we don't and they just totally disregard the friend. You know,

1155
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 1: they say he was drinking with a friend and then

1156
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,679
Speaker 1: suddenly he was committing suicide, and nobody ever says like,

1157
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:27,759
Speaker 1: where was the friend, what was the time frame, what's

1158
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: the story there? So I think that's a little odd.

1159
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: And then also the whole like injection mark on his

1160
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: puncture yeah, ankle, Yeah, I mean it seems weird, right,

1161
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: you can't. I don't think that's the sort of thing

1162
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 1: that usually comes from. For two hundred and forty ft.

1163
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: Drop a couple of things here. One, let's let's talk

1164
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: about his pants being around his ankles. Let's say that

1165
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: he went in semi head first, that's one possible account.

1166
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 1: I mean, if anybody has jumped into a dove, into

1167
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: a body of water with their shorts not exactly cinched up,

1168
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: has experienced having their their pants ripped off of them,

1169
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 1: which is a little embarrassing. Sadly, I've done it in public.

1170
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,799
Speaker 1: But the other thing is that if he is falling

1171
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 1: into a moving body of water, and when did he um.

1172
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: This was in November, so I don't know what. I

1173
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,839
Speaker 1: don't know what the river level was at that time,

1174
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: but if a body is tumbling in a moving body

1175
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: of water, it is entirely possible that he could have

1176
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: been driven into something as simple as a stick or

1177
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: a piece of metal and then pulled away. And that's like,

1178
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: you are much larger puncture mark than the one they

1179
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: were initially speaking about. You're talking about the pants being

1180
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: pulled off. Well, no, I'm talking about the puncture wound

1181
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,679
Speaker 1: in I mean, think about fencing. Okay, if you've seen

1182
01:10:55,800 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: rigid fencing before, and if people you that at the

1183
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: edges of river. Again, I don't know what the area is.

1184
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: So I'm guess as they're saying right there, saying it's

1185
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: a it's a puncture wound. That's like the size of

1186
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: a needle, is what they're talking about. Where is it

1187
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: going to come from? But you know what, it may

1188
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: not have been the side. It may have been the

1189
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 1: size of a needle when they examined it. But I mean,

1190
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: you've seen wounds where something larger in diameter has punctured

1191
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: through and torn the flesh and then everything has filled

1192
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:32,799
Speaker 1: back in the void after the fact is that is removed.

1193
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: Usually that happens with someone's alive. Though, I mean, it

1194
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: couldn't have it right away. I mean, I'm just saying

1195
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it is as suspicious as it has

1196
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: pointed out. I hate conspiracies and I am going to

1197
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 1: rail on this a lot, and I apologize. I can't

1198
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 1: help it. Yeah, So do we want to move on

1199
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 1: since it is an immovable object? I think Mr Sharif's

1200
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:07,759
Speaker 1: wild ride. Yes. Yeah. Mark Cooney initially said that Sharif

1201
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: Mr Shariff was just a junior employee and he didn't

1202
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: really have anything to do with Star Wars, and he

1203
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: didn't really know what was going on. Uh not so

1204
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: say the coworkers. Apparently, at the time of his death,

1205
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: Mr Shariff was apparently about to be promoted. Also, apparently

1206
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: Mr Sharif worked in Mr Dodgy Buys the hardest name

1207
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,600
Speaker 1: average pronounced yeah in his department with him. That's he.

1208
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: I mean, for both of them to have died in

1209
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:46,719
Speaker 1: relative succession of like kind of questionableness, that seems kind

1210
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 1: of weird. Police also said that Mr Shriff the reason

1211
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 1: that he committed suicide is because he was upset, oh

1212
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: for the breakup break up with a woman. It turns

1213
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 1: out that that woman that they initially identified was actually

1214
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: his landlady, not his lover. And then the media said, actually, hey, um,

1215
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: that woman police that you guys said was his lover,

1216
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 1: that's his landlady. They said, oh, no, no, no, Actually

1217
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,799
Speaker 1: the woman was a coworker who was married with children,

1218
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 1: so we didn't want to release her name. And then

1219
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: his friends came forward and said, no, he had a

1220
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 1: fiance in Pakistan and he was trying to get her

1221
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: into the country, right, and apparently, by like the reports

1222
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: that I've read, that was going fine. M over right, Yeah,

1223
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 1: I mean it sounded like things were going fine. I mean,

1224
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: he had obviously been deemed respectable enough, um that he

1225
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,719
Speaker 1: had been given clearance. I mean he worked on top

1226
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: secret projects for Marconi under contract from the Crown. I mean,

1227
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: you know, for him to say, hey, my fiance wants

1228
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: to come here, it seems reasonable that that process would

1229
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: have been fairly smooth. They, by no accounts were breaking up.

1230
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 1: So I don't really know where the police we're getting

1231
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 1: this information. Well, the suicide angle is from the fact

1232
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 1: that he left a tape, if not more than one

1233
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 1: tape in his car that they there was of himself.

1234
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: The police did say that they say that they found

1235
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 1: tapes of his voice that were indicative of a suicide. Note,

1236
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: the police do say that yes, it might. It might

1237
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 1: be that, I would say, in um Pakistan, where they

1238
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 1: have a lot of arranged marriages, it might be that

1239
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: that was a source of his depression. It's in because

1240
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 1: he might not Yeah, he might have actually not really

1241
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 1: wanted to go through with this marriage. Now it's looking

1242
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: like it's going to succeed. He's like, you know, this sucks.

1243
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: I'd rather be dead than marry her. Yeah, I mean,

1244
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:51,480
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a whole list of of possible

1245
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: reasons that he could have decided to take his own life.

1246
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: And as we talked about before initially, is that you know,

1247
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 1: like I've seen this method of suicide is usually kind

1248
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 1: of it's kind of revenge edge to it. That seems

1249
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 1: still it seems weird from what I've read from his

1250
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 1: life at that time. It seems weird. But that but

1251
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 1: if he was actually, if he'd actually broken up with somebody,

1252
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: I I don't know, we don't do you know, because

1253
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was actually his car was

1254
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: his car? You know that for sure? I mean I'm like, well,

1255
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's like there's that revenge act of Okay, well,

1256
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 1: screw it. I'm gonna I'm gonna destroy this car with myself.

1257
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 1: I think it was his car, Okay, I don't know

1258
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 1: that it was his Audi that he purchased with his

1259
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 1: Mark Co money. I mean, then then that is not

1260
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: a that is not a viable angle. That's why I

1261
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 1: said I didn't know. I kind of like the idea

1262
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: of borrowing somebody's car for that. I know you have

1263
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,759
Speaker 1: two other ones that you want. Well, there's details about

1264
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: two others that that seem weird. So there's Britain. He's

1265
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 1: the one who was found under the car in an

1266
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: odd angle. Yeah, theory about because you just are an

1267
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 1: Asayer tonight. But it's it's it's weird. I see people

1268
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: saying that he was at an odd angle, jammed under there.

1269
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: But Joe had been talking about the fact that, you know,

1270
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 1: I once touched an exhaust pipe and it was hot,

1271
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:23,440
Speaker 1: and I have been under a car and done something similar,

1272
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: and your immediately uncontrollable reaction is to involuntarily jerk your body,

1273
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 1: at which point, if you're underneath the vehicle, you know

1274
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: what you do. You hit the undercarriage of the car

1275
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 1: with your head. I have almost knocked myself out under

1276
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 1: a car before. So I can see a guy who

1277
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: crawls under they say it's a weird angle. But if

1278
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:49,759
Speaker 1: he crawls under there and he something happens, he touches

1279
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 1: something it's hot, and he inadvertently jerks and whales his noggin,

1280
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 1: he's then going to be incapacitated and he may have

1281
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 1: some kind of convulsion. I don't know, but that may

1282
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 1: explain how he wedged himself farther under there. I kind

1283
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 1: of like the idea of two burly Russian guys you

1284
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 1: love you know what? That is your explanation for everything.

1285
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,799
Speaker 1: It's amazing we kept that out of the Murrow Murray

1286
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 1: Eppiside's hard. It's hard with the like domino effect of

1287
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: this though right where you think, okay, well one time

1288
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: of like one guy accidentally weighing in his head and dying.

1289
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: But when you take in fact that you know within

1290
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: a year period five and I know that, so that

1291
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,760
Speaker 1: that that comes up though that's in the final theory.

1292
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 1: There's there's a stress aspect that is in the final

1293
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 1: theory that we'll talk about. But I have one more

1294
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: because I I have a kind of simple explanation for

1295
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 1: one more, and that is David Sands. He's the guy

1296
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 1: who drove into the cafe or the cafeteria, and he

1297
01:17:56,040 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: had gotten all those gas cans several days is ahead

1298
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 1: of time, and it's to five gallant cans of fuel

1299
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 1: that he petrol that he had in his car he

1300
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: ted in well, as I remember gas cans in seven

1301
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 1: they had a plug in one end and a screw

1302
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: cap on the other, and none of that was extremely tight.

1303
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: So I remember walking into buildings when I was a

1304
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: kid that had one or two gas cans and they

1305
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 1: weeked of fumes. So it's very possible he had he

1306
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 1: had he had gone and gotten gassed several days before

1307
01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: and then disappeared for a four hour drive, at which

1308
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 1: point he told his wife he was thinking and he

1309
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: didn't remember much of his drive, and now he gets

1310
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: in his car again, which is full of gas fumes

1311
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: and is driving around. It is completely possible that this

1312
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 1: guy was inadvertently hoffing gas and out of his head,

1313
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 1: or maybe he just lit a cigarette them yeah, actually

1314
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 1: rupped it into a fireball, and then what happens. That's

1315
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: why he made that weird turn, because he'd be jerked

1316
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: a wheel and just happened to drive into that that

1317
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 1: little offshoot road. But again, that's super lucky. But it's

1318
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: it's also it's just people do stupid stuff. I know

1319
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 1: so many people that used to use the screw top

1320
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 1: gas cans to store gas and then you would walk

1321
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 1: over and I would touch the lid and it would

1322
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 1: fall off, like, oh, I thought I screwed that back

1323
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 1: on last time I used it. Like, these are very

1324
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 1: plausible reasons. They are, But then we start talking about

1325
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 1: like taking as a whole, right, and I grant you.

1326
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think for me it's like and I

1327
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: don't want to take them as a hole because I

1328
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 1: think taking that a hole is too simple of an approach.

1329
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 1: That's why it bothers me conspiracy. But I mean, I

1330
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 1: think for others it is it's like, really, seriously, you

1331
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 1: think that two dudes died of electrocution within it, like

1332
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 1: within you know, ten days of each other. That's insane

1333
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,640
Speaker 1: to me. I'm also going to say though, that the

1334
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 1: whole running my car in the garage is a trope

1335
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: and everybody knew about it. Yeah, and there is the

1336
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: phenomena of copycats, so it maybe that he said, oh wow,

1337
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 1: I heard about this guy at the company you know

1338
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 1: that might actually be kind of a quick way to

1339
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 1: do it. I'm going to do that. Are doing it,

1340
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. So here are the two

1341
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: I guess additional addundum theories. Right, is that like there's

1342
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:38,799
Speaker 1: a hitman, because there are nice little clusters of Oh, hey,

1343
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: for a year, these people died this way, and then

1344
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 1: for a year, these people died this way, and then

1345
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:46,639
Speaker 1: for another year, for a year was the Russians, then

1346
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: it was the Chinese, and it was the American. It

1347
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: is a nice cluster, I'll give you that, it is.

1348
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: It's really clean the delineation between each of those. But

1349
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: then you know there's the other fact of like, yeah,

1350
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stress involved, right, so we start

1351
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 1: talking about why, right, why would these deaths be why

1352
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: would they need murders or why would they be suicides?

1353
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:13,720
Speaker 1: And like why would these things happen? For suicide, It's

1354
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 1: probably a pretty easy answer. These people are under a

1355
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 1: lot of stress, and they're developing essentially weapons of fairly

1356
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: mass destruction, and they can't talk to anybody, and they

1357
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: can't they can't really talk about it. They're not mass destruction,

1358
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 1: but they are powerful weapons, big destruction. In my world,

1359
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: that's mass destruction. It's not like thousands of people. But

1360
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: you're not torpedo. If you take out a submarineer a ship,

1361
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,800
Speaker 1: well a lot of people, you're kieople yet. But I

1362
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: also I also remember Joe and I don't know, I

1363
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 1: know Devin won't because you're you're too young. But for you,

1364
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 1: if you remember this, my dad was worked for a

1365
01:21:53,920 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 1: government organization, and I remember this kind of we're overarching

1366
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,719
Speaker 1: cloud of stress of just like where in the hell

1367
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 1: the world was and what we were going through in

1368
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: terms of the Cold War, and it weighed on some

1369
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: people more than others. And while my pop wasn't in

1370
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:21,800
Speaker 1: any kind of direct secret thing, he dealt with things

1371
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: that to this day, you know, I can't get him

1372
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: to breathe a word of and it's a it's a

1373
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: very clean line of I shut it down. So there's

1374
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: also there is this weird stress level that happened. There's

1375
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: also I mean, there's two other things that play here, right,

1376
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 1: There's the British stiff upper lip. Also the fact that

1377
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 1: you can't talk about this stuff. Well yeah, the top

1378
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:45,879
Speaker 1: secret nature of that. But I'll also include the harmful

1379
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 1: aspects of reinforced masculinity at this time, right, I think

1380
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 1: you're I think that you guys are like trending too

1381
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 1: hard towards suicide here, I mean some of them. No,

1382
01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it that. No, I'm just trying to

1383
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: are you ever to say earlier four of them have

1384
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: something in common besides the fact that their desks were

1385
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: ruled suicide. That would be sharif stands, Beckham and Ferry,

1386
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: and so they were. They were all bizarre suicide things

1387
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: from we got the guy with who decapitated himself with

1388
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 1: his car in a rope, We got the guy with

1389
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 1: the gas cans in the car, and then we got

1390
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: the two guys who elextrocuted themselves one of the chests,

1391
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,839
Speaker 1: one of the mouth, So all very strange suicide methods,

1392
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: and then the other. The other thing they have in

1393
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: common is they all had made appointments to meet with

1394
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 1: their MPs. That's true for and what's the course, never

1395
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 1: never happened, and so that's kind of intriguing. No, I agree,

1396
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:44,640
Speaker 1: And that's why that's where I would go in, and

1397
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:47,719
Speaker 1: that's why I'm not going with the pure suicide theory.

1398
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: No, no no, no, no, I absolutely agree with you. I

1399
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,599
Speaker 1: am just trying to give a bit of historic framing

1400
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:56,560
Speaker 1: for some people who may not be thinking in that context.

1401
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: I'm happy to go down. I'm actually happier to go down,

1402
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 1: because you see, the most of these people were murdered

1403
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 1: avenue than I am Steve's avenue. But the whole Cold

1404
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: War thing is that what you have to understand about

1405
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:10,599
Speaker 1: the Cold War as I looked through part of it,

1406
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:13,839
Speaker 1: and that is that in the in the late forties

1407
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:16,640
Speaker 1: and in the fifties, it was a much more paranoid

1408
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 1: time and bye by this time the late eighties, of course,

1409
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 1: and nobody knew it. I mean, nobody knew that it

1410
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: was almost the Soviet Union was about to fall just

1411
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: a few years, and we you know, everybody thought it

1412
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 1: was going to be around for much much, much longer

1413
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 1: than that. And it was a big shock and surprise

1414
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 1: wasn't surprise when it all came tumbling down. But still

1415
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: by by that, by that point in time, things is

1416
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 1: stabilized to the point that everybody felt like that the

1417
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 1: actual possibility of warfare or nuclear warfare and all that

1418
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 1: stuff was remote. Yeah. So, I mean, so the big

1419
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: pressure in the Cold War was was really like the

1420
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 1: furties and fifties. Well, but you know, and and the

1421
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 1: other the other way to go. I mean, you've called

1422
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: out those four as really odd suicides. The other two

1423
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: that are looked at as suicides are the ones that

1424
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: were tied up with the cling wrap around their heads, right,

1425
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: and you know those are suspicious. Well they're suspicious because

1426
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know this until I was doing some of

1427
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: the readings that like, that is a great It turns

1428
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: out that's a great way to discredit somebody. How you've

1429
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: labeled them a pervert. According to the general population, what

1430
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: did that person do? And I never I was like

1431
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 1: they were trying something, or somebody was over and they

1432
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:43,720
Speaker 1: had an accident and somebody just left. I was like, oh, oh,

1433
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:49,759
Speaker 1: it's you know, modern thinking versus eighties thinking. Oh wow,

1434
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: that really does just destroy all credibility of their person. Well,

1435
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a lot of stuff about whistleblowing

1436
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: and well, yeah, you're kind of catch twenty two with

1437
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially like when things are changing

1438
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,800
Speaker 1: like they were in the like eighties with the Cold War, right,

1439
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union to come tumbling down. You know, we're

1440
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 1: kind of things are being revealed like Star Wars was

1441
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 1: revealed right to the media, and suddenly the regular administration

1442
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, we were doing this thing. Cool um.

1443
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: And so I think there was this kind of sense

1444
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 1: or there's the potential for this kind of sense of

1445
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: if you're working on these projects, right, you had this

1446
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:38,400
Speaker 1: pressure to either be a whistleblower and reveal what you

1447
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: knew or what are you what are they revealing? What

1448
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean, if they knew something top secret, if they

1449
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 1: knew about some project, whatever they knew about, say, you

1450
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: know cost, I mean you know often like you know

1451
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 1: cost overruns that actually it turns out we're just you know,

1452
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: phony that kind of thing, or any kind of I

1453
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: mean just moral anything like that, sort of bribery, things

1454
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: like that. So that's that's why the whole it's it's

1455
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of interesting, these these four guys that killed themselves

1456
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:12,760
Speaker 1: in bizarre ways. I wanted to talk to their MP.

1457
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: Oh by the way, if you're not from Britain, MP

1458
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 1: is a member of Parliament. I should have probably said

1459
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:21,439
Speaker 1: that earlier. It's it's like your congressman, yeah, yeah, And

1460
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 1: so I think there's like that sense of like at

1461
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: that time, right, that's a very pivotal moment of like

1462
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: either you are a whistleblower or you're implicated in an inquest, right,

1463
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 1: And I think I've seen that thrown around a lot

1464
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 1: on the internet. In terms of why that would be

1465
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:40,799
Speaker 1: that these people are being murdered was because they were

1466
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 1: They may have known something, they may have thought they

1467
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 1: known something, they may have known nothing, but they may

1468
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:50,640
Speaker 1: have been making appointments to meet with people who you

1469
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 1: would traditionally meet with if you were to be a whistleblower.

1470
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:55,920
Speaker 1: That could have been I don't know. I mean, I

1471
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 1: don't know that it's a good theory. Well, actually, so

1472
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,240
Speaker 1: you have connected for me the dots that I had

1473
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 1: not been able to connect. In the reading which is

1474
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: there there's writings about you know, going to see their

1475
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:16,519
Speaker 1: their their MPs, and and then there was writings about

1476
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 1: the fact that some of these people were complaining about

1477
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 1: the unscientific nature of the tasks that they were assigned.

1478
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: In other words, they it sounded like they were assigned

1479
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: to do really stupid stuff and they were like, dude,

1480
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 1: why am I doing this? And now I understand the

1481
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:40,760
Speaker 1: implication of that is that it was an excuse to

1482
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:45,839
Speaker 1: run your time to build for something just to build

1483
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,840
Speaker 1: for something. In other words, saying you came to work

1484
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 1: all week and building for forty hours, but actually sitting

1485
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 1: at home and watching the telly the whole time. What

1486
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 1: could have been Actually, that could have been so much

1487
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:01,479
Speaker 1: as just being shown aside and into something else. Because

1488
01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 1: they've gotten somebody that may be upstairs. It kind of

1489
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 1: gotten the idea that you were maybe going to wrap

1490
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 1: them out, so they wanted to get you away from

1491
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,879
Speaker 1: the project. That's why they put you out something meaningless

1492
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:17,000
Speaker 1: and stupid. But but then that that lens now, Okay,

1493
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 1: that that makes the connection for me of some of

1494
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 1: the things that I had read about like well, why

1495
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: is this murder? And I was like, well, that does

1496
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:26,679
Speaker 1: maybe freaking sense now it makes sense to why now

1497
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 1: they see, oh they've they've gotten angry enough, they're going

1498
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 1: to go complain to somebody who was in a position

1499
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 1: to do something about it. It's possibly that. And also,

1500
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: let's not let's not forget actually it's not that uncommon

1501
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:44,720
Speaker 1: for scientists to be murdered by the opposition. Yeah, they

1502
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 1: can't be flipped. Yeah, that's it's not that uncommon. Um,

1503
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:50,680
Speaker 1: And so it's it's happened playing you know. That's one

1504
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 1: of the things that I always I've always been curious

1505
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: there are certain people who did come to this country

1506
01:29:57,040 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 1: after World War Two and worked for us, and I

1507
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 1: wonder how many of them didn't come here because they

1508
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 1: didn't want to turn a lot. Yeah, I'm sure we

1509
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 1: could do a lot of episodes on that. Let's not. Yeah,

1510
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 1: I think that. I think a lot of Germans came

1511
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 1: here because in all this face at their country had

1512
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 1: been flattened oppuch better over, So I I think it's

1513
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:23,960
Speaker 1: probably there are a few of these that are kind

1514
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,919
Speaker 1: of tossed in here. But I do think it's reasonable

1515
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 1: to think that a lot of these suicides are suspect

1516
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 1: and probably not actually suicides. Yeah, I call this a

1517
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 1: mixed bag. This is a mix for me, really, actually,

1518
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:41,559
Speaker 1: fifty fifty I'm using rough for me, there's twenty five

1519
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 1: of them. I don't want to do that kind of map.

1520
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 1: For me, it's six of them, twenty five bad, seventy innocent.

1521
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 1: The other way around, I think of them are probably

1522
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 1: pretty innocent. I think seventy of them are in nefarious

1523
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 1: in some way. Whether they're all connected to each other

1524
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 1: or not, I don't know, But I think seventy of

1525
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:02,200
Speaker 1: the swarmers. Yeah, you know some of them. I mean,

1526
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 1: like you know, the guys that made their appointments with

1527
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:08,720
Speaker 1: their MP's. Of course. Well, maybe we can maybe leave

1528
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 1: Sharif out of this because he had made an appointment

1529
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 1: before his MP to talk about his wife. I don't

1530
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 1: think I can leave but anyway, it was about her.

1531
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 1: But I don't think I can leave him out of

1532
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 1: there because I think that's clever. But yeah, yeah, it's

1533
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,599
Speaker 1: true too. Uh So some of them were maybe murdered

1534
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:29,120
Speaker 1: by you know, agentes of Marconi, the Defense, and then

1535
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 1: some of the other ones were maybe murdered by the

1536
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 1: Russians or even the US. Oh yeah, you ask, well,

1537
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 1: who knows? I mean, we're murdered by Kraft. Well, but

1538
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean because it's Macarona, not Marca. It turns out

1539
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:46,720
Speaker 1: they were stealing the macaroni and cheese, the liquid gold,

1540
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: the secret formula before Velvita got the best. Hey, do

1541
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: you have anything else to add? That's what I'm talking

1542
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,280
Speaker 1: about cheese. No, No, I'm just like you know, I

1543
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: don't think we're likely to sell its mystery time to say. No,

1544
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:02,799
Speaker 1: I don't think so either, But I think it's interesting

1545
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:05,760
Speaker 1: to talk about. Uh So, if you want to see

1546
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:08,599
Speaker 1: some of the links to our research, you can find

1547
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 1: that on our website. That's Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

1548
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 1: We are, of course on iTunes, We're on Google Play,

1549
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 1: We're streaming pretty much everywhere. UM, so you should subscribe

1550
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: and rate and review if you haven't done that on

1551
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 1: your respective however you are hearing me right now, UM,

1552
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 1: preferably a good one, but you know whatever, we'll tell

1553
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 1: what we can get. We've got Facebook, We've got a

1554
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 1: group and a page, so you can join the group

1555
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:41,640
Speaker 1: and like the page. We have Twitter, which is Thinking Sideways.

1556
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 1: We do have a subreddit which is Thinking Sideways. It's

1557
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 1: our thinking sideways. And then you can also email us

1558
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 1: with just you know, feedback, suggestions, offers of expertise, um,

1559
01:32:55,920 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 1: just pretty much. We like those emails the most. That

1560
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:03,240
Speaker 1: email addresses Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. And

1561
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 1: then if you'd like to support the show in any way,

1562
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 1: we've got a couple of ways to do that. We

1563
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:11,679
Speaker 1: have merchandise, there's a link on our website. Uh We've

1564
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 1: got PayPal if you want to do a one time donation,

1565
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 1: or we have Patreon, which is at patreon dot com

1566
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:21,799
Speaker 1: slash Thinking Sideways, which you heard in the beginning there. Um,

1567
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 1: and that's how you set up a reoccurring donation and

1568
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 1: that really sustains the show's budget. We don't really have

1569
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:34,320
Speaker 1: a budget. We kind of do this on our own dime.

1570
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 1: And so what that does? Any of those donations help

1571
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,760
Speaker 1: us cover the basic costs of podcast. We're not out

1572
01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: to make a profit. We're not collecting well, actually, I'm

1573
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: not wearing this gold watch because of the patre Yeah,

1574
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: we're not, you know, we don't. We're not trying to

1575
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,519
Speaker 1: make income on this or anything like that. We just

1576
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,919
Speaker 1: want to cover our costs, which has been pretty successful

1577
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 1: really totally. So thank you so much for that. And

1578
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:07,280
Speaker 1: if you haven't done that and you want to patreon

1579
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash Thinking sideways, um P A t R

1580
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:14,840
Speaker 1: E O N Yeah, google it, don't try to do

1581
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 1: it by yourself. Um, all of that having been said,

1582
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna jet on out of here. Yeah,

1583
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:23,519
Speaker 1: I think so. To the Loue people, we'll talk to

1584
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:33,519
Speaker 1: you next week. Everybody