WEBVTT - Ep. 56: Genuine Outlaws - Covert Operations, Part 3 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:06.880 M start talking to people. Told him that I was. 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.120 I was a bricklayer from Tennessee that recently moved here 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.000 and my wife got a job in Hot Springs, and 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.920 now I like the little turkey hunting And I actually 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.440 asked a guy, Hey, if you have the best turkey 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.479 hunt around here, who would be I'd like to talk 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.119 to somebody about turkey hunt. You need to talk to 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.639 Louis Dale. On this third part of our Genuine Outlaw series, 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.000 we're going behind the veil into the realm of the 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.959 covert operations of the government. In a strange twist, we 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.520 were able to get an interview with the federal undercover 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:43.000 officer who worked a sting operation on Louis Dell Edwards 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.200 in the nineteen nineties. The Edwards brothers, Charlie and Louis 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:52.040 Dell were notorious turkey hunting violators, moonshiners, and could be 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:57.000 straight up rough men. But we're also beloved, respected men, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:02.240 known for their honesty, genuine nature, and generosity. Some even 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.720 describe them as pure. I grew up knowing these men 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.280 and them in a process of personal exploration of why 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.640 I am endeared to them, we'll spend half of our 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.880 time with this secret agent and the second half with 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.280 Dr Daniel Rupe as he lays out for us the 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:25.880 anthropological foundations of why Western culture is enamored without laws. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.080 This whole series, I've been trying to make sense of 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.440 why we're often endeared to these guys who don't play 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:37.200 by the rules, and its origins will surprise you. Of 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.839 all the Dad Gubb Bear Grease podcasts we've ever made, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.960 this one I doubt you're gonna want to miss. And hey, 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.760 if you haven't listened to the first two parts of 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.720 this series, which were bio sketches of the Edwards brothers, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.880 you might be lost with some of these characters, so 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.920 be sure to listen to part one and two. Ego 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.840 is a very bad thing in the world of hunting, 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:09.040 and uh the particular group obviously the information I heard 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.280 about them, that is, they were very ego driven in 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.000 their in their taking of animals. They wanted to be 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:26.520 the ones that couldn't be caught. My name is Clay 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.080 Nukelem and this is the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:35.320 explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.240 and where we'll tell the story of Americans who lived 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:44.200 their lives close to the land presented by f HF Gear, 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:49.440 American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed 0:02:49.480 --> 0:03:00.320 to be as rugged as the places we explore. LOOKI Tulsa, 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.280 and I heard this restrict of Ludel's mouth. He was 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:06.640 at the house one day and the guy shows up 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.239 at his house and Ludell said, a big, old tall 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.320 he said, a nice looking guy, strong built, and he said. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:16.560 He knocked on his door, and he went to the door, 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.520 and Loudell said, amen, what could do for He said, 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.880 I hear you're a turkey hunter. He said, I'm from 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:23.919 Tennessee and he said, I stopped down by the Big 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.160 FOURK store and asked around, and they said, you're the 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.880 guy that would take me turkey. And this is two 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.640 or three weeks for a season. Hen Loudell says, well, 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:33.919 you know it's not so he said, I don't care. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.000 He said, if you take me here, he said, can 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:37.400 you take me? He said sure, I'll take you turke 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:39.240 hn And he said, well, you'll be over here at 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.880 four thirty in the morning. And he said next morning, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.680 old boys are at four thirty. And Loudell said, he 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.240 gives a boy some credit because they talked and everything. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.160 He said he was the best he ever heard on 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.640 a turkey call. With the mouth call. He said he 0:03:54.760 --> 0:04:04.360 was the best he ever heard, the best he ever heard. 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.240 I'd like to introduce you to a man named Russ Arthur. 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.520 That's his real name, but he hasn't always used it. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.839 Russ is now sixty three years old, and in the 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:21.440 nineteen nineties he was in his early thirties. Oddly, he 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.120 fits the description to the t that Louis Dell gave 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:29.400 of this Tennessee turkey hunter. Russ is about six ft 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.960 two and kind of built like a retired nineteen eighties 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:38.280 w WF wrestler, and by my best estimation and at 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.200 least by one other hill billy, he's a nice looking feller. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.840 When you meet him, you're struck by his genuine nature 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.160 and he can't hide that he's his country. As Cornbread 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:54.240 turns out, he's an incredible voice mouth caller, no doubt, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:59.120 one of the best I've ever heard. It's kind of spooky. 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.800 See can you mouth call like with your physical voice? Uh? 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.960 Sometimes if yeah, I want to hear your barred owl hoot, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:22.599 you gotta yelp. That's just with his mouth. That's not 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:29.919 a call. It's slightly unnerving sitting here talking to Russ 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.520 after hearing Louis Delle's description of this strange man oddly 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.240 appearing at his house in Arkansas. The Russ I'm talking 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.200 to is a real man, clearly a real turkey hunter. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.680 He's a real bricklayer, and he's really from Tennessee. Louis 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.159 Delle and I talked to the same guy, but back 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:54.480 then he wasn't Russ. He was someone else. You see. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.920 Russ worked his entire career for the United States Force 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.000 Service Law Enforcement Division, and in the nineteen nineties he 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.440 worked a stint of that time in Arkansas. He said 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.760 it was one of the most memorable parts of his career. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.560 But he's been retired for almost a decade. After I 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.680 did the first episode in this series, I had someone 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.400 privately contact me and say, nobody in the community knows this, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.440 but I know the undercover agent who worked the case 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.680 on Louis Dell. I was giddy. I was able to 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:31.720 contact Russ, drive eight hours to where he lived, and 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.320 he agreed to talk to me as long as we 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.960 didn't speak negatively about the Edwards family, because he respected 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.120 them as people. There were at least two undercover operations 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.600 with the Edwards brothers, but none of it fully revealed 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:51.279 until now here's Andy with more of what Louis Dell 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.719 told him about the incident. But he said, I'm not 0:06:55.839 --> 0:07:01.039 ready to go, said get you good, and a boy said, well, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.600 where's your gun? He said, well, don't you worry about 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.560 if Turkey goub was morning. He said, I'll find a gun. 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.960 But he loads him up and dropped him off and 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.640 picked him up back east down there that morning. But 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.040 they'd sent they'd sent that lit us and they sent it. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:16.720 A boy in there trying to trying to get me 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.960 to mess up. Did he know the whole time that 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.920 he was entertaining the undercovered guy. He suspicion it's the 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:29.760 whole tel. He's suspicioned that the whole time, and he recalled. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.160 But he may not have come up with this completely 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.520 on his own, and some details will point to that 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.440 he didn't suspicion it the whole time at all. Turns 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.560 out Louis Dell had some help from the community. But 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.320 you'll have to wait to find out. How you remember 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.320 retired Arkansas Game and Fish game board and Jimmy Martin 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.640 from part one of the series. Here he is giving 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.800 us some broader context into the undercover operations on the 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:02.800 Edwards brothers. There were several operations over several years where 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.160 we would have, like to say, people from the Fishing 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.920 Wildlife Service, u S, Forest Service, different undercover agents would 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.200 come in and uh, how would how would they get 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.320 their name? I mean, would it be like, how would 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:20.480 they get Louis Elle's name? My supervisor and we communicated 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.480 with Fishing, Wildlife and Forest Service all the time. We 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.000 we used undercover agents all the time, not just on 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.200 Louis Delle or they'd be used all over the state 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.280 on different things like striper fishermen. We used them on 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.840 when the whites were running up the river for netting, 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.680 people that were net and fish, illegal bear hunting. The 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.360 big one from my supervisor was Loui Delle and Charlie. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.280 He wanted the people called. He wanted, you know, to 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.480 be the one look at me. I caught Louis Delle, 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:53.360 look at me. We never didn't make it. The most 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.360 interesting part of all these interviews is hearing the different 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.880 angles into the same story. We might be surprised to 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.800 learned that they could have busted Louis Dell. This next 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.679 twenty minute interview with undercover agent Russ Arthur is one 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.600 of the most unique I've been a part of it 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.559 was like talking to a ghost, to a man that 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.480 didn't really exist. It was so interesting because I heard 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:22.359 multiple stories of the brothers suspecting they'd entertained undercover agents, 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.640 but none of the agents ever surfaced, as they say 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:30.480 in the business until now Here's retired Forest Service law 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:35.240 enforcement agent Russ Arthur. What years were you in Arkansas? 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.480 I was in Arkansas ninety, so I would have been 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.840 eleven years old when you were over there. I think 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:48.840 I remember seeing you. I think he's actually riding it 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:57.120 back with ninety. How would people get selected to have 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.280 a job done on them? They would just have notoriety 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:05.480 inside the communities and the local guys couldn't catch them. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.760 I mean, is that is that how it would work? Well, 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:09.880 that's part of it. But you know, when I moved 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:14.280 to Arkansas, you know, keeping mind, my number one job 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.080 was not undercover work. Uh, it was just a probably 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.920 of my work that I did when I was in 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.280 Arkansas was undercover. A lot of it was just you know, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.320 overt investigations, of crimes on federal land, on service land, 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.360 whether it be in the drug world or the timber 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.720 theft world or the wildfire arsenal world. So you know, 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.760 I was a criminal investigator that investigated all crimes out there, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:45.920 and occasionally information would come in that we've got a 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.720 need for an undercover operation, and there are several things 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:50.880 that you have to look at, and I had a 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.440 supervisor that was that was very familiar with that state. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.160 But information would come up through the field level, either 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.200 through other agencies or through our own agency, of a 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.760 need for potential undercover and then there were litmus tests 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.400 he would go through to see and set down, and 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.319 we'd say, hey, do we need to do this? Is 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.120 it worth while spending time on this? How egregious is it? 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.240 You know all those things you have to go in? 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.480 Is it? Is it dangerous? Is it something that's gonna 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.200 take a week? Is it something's gonna take it two years? 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:21.760 So you have to look at that, But a lot 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.920 of that is word of mouth of communities. Yes, so 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.599 the local game wardens probably would it just would have 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.559 gone up the chain and the gaming fish that these 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.720 brothers were killing more turkeys than they should have. Oh, Yeah. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.679 I heard about these particular individuals for for a year 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.880 or two when I was out there, from the game 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.640 wardens and from the local Force service officer. Do you 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.400 remember what they said. Did they give numbers to how 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.360 many birds they were killing or anything? No, the Uh, 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.880 the only thing that I remember is these guys are killers, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.199 and you know that they need to be stopped and 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.400 nobody can catch them. And it became a very apparent 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.600 to me. Uh. And I'll still stand by this that 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.200 ego is a very bad thing in the world of hunting. 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:10.120 I mean, I truly truly believe believe that. And uh, 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:14.400 this particular group, obviously the information I heard about him, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.560 that is they were very ego driven in their in 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.439 their taking of animals. They wanted to be the ones 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.880 that couldn't be caught. They wanted to be the ones 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.520 that couldn't be caught. This lines up perfectly with what 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.719 we've heard everywhere else. To the Edwards brothers, evading the 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.520 law was a game. To me. I don't want to 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.600 say it's comical, but I want to ask you something. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.240 If you're an officer, and let's say you and Joe 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.760 were the only two officers in a two hundred thousand 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.680 acre county and a hundred fifty thousand acres, and that's 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.640 federal land, fifty thousand that's private land that's got cattle ranches, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.480 farm land. Your phone was ringing off the wall. I've 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.760 got a haulk it's dead over here, I've got this 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.520 it's going over here, and you've got all this vast 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.200 area over there. Is it really an achievement that you 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.800 can allude to people that are that busy. You're obviously 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.160 a good hunter. You when you go in the woods, 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.680 your senses go up. You know how to read them, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.760 lap and say, you're pretty good navigator. You've got a 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.360 good sense of bearing, good sense of weather coming and going, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.320 good sense of animal movement. You know where to go 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.840 in and go out. It would be that hard taking 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.560 what these officers are up against to elude them. So 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.960 I find it kind of comical because I don't think 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.640 that the common people in the community is realize what 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:47.440 officers are up against. That's a mic drop comment from Russ. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.120 Game boardings can't work twenty four hours a day, they 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.560 have days off, they have limitations, and most of the 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.360 time they have to be reactionary and not proactive in 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.440 enforcing the law. As a little context, the United States 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.559 Forest Service Law Enforcement Division is commissioned to enforce the 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.920 law on the federal lands on which they have jurisdiction. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.000 Much of the Edwards Brothers hunting was done on Forest 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.880 Service land. I asked Russ why the Forest Service was 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.880 tasked to try to catch them, and he said, the 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.360 state game agencies in federal law enforcement often work together 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.840 on these type of projects, and they just felt like 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.280 he'd be a good fit on this case. It was 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:32.640 that simple. Here's Russ describing how the sting went down. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.160 Do you remember how did you engage Edwards Brothers. Okay, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.960 it was very well known when I was in Arkansas, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.520 within my work force, if you will, that I was 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.600 an avid turkey hunter. So they obviously said, Man, I 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.200 think I think you're the guy to go do this 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.800 turkey deal. I mean, you know, you like turkey hunting, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.480 you understand turkey hunters. And and I was like, well, 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.760 you know, is is he charging people to hunt on 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.320 no forest? Well no, I don't think he is. Him 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.600 and his brother they just they just kill everything they see. Well, 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.200 why can't you catch him? Just can't catch him? Uh? Well, 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.480 is he is he is he baiting. Well, I'm not 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.440 sure if he's bating turkeys or not, but rumor has 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.560 it he does walk throughs. He'll get dropped off one place, 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.760 picked up another, and he hides guns and stop poles. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.240 So you hear all these rumors. I think it would 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.680 have probably have been ninety two, probably maybe ninety three. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.480 And my supervisor came to me and he said, do 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.280 you want to give a shot? You know? And I said, yeah, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.120 well we'll give a shot. And he said, well, let's 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.280 let's lay a plan out. And uh, you know how 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.280 the govern is, you have to have a plan for everything. 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.200 So I drafted up a pretty generic plan and he 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:52.960 approved it, and uh and and it consisted of, you know, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.840 playing on their ego. What I know about turkey hunters, 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.240 there were very territorial over their hunting there, probably more 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.360 so than than any other group that I know. So 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.320 I had an undercover truck, had a Tennessee tag on it. 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:11.200 About a month for that turkey season, I started going 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.320 out scouting in areas that I knew louis Dale frequented hunting. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.480 No one that he would probably see my truck just 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.760 as a seed, if you will. I never ran into 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:22.880 him in the woods. But I parked it two or 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.600 three different places predominantly though I knew that he would 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.520 have to come by. What would you do when you went? 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.360 Would you actually walk out in the woods. Oh yeah, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:31.920 I'd walk out in the woods, but I didn't normally 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.400 just turn around, watch my truck and see what vehicles 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.040 came by, See if anybody slowed down and looked at it. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:38.920 And I had vehicles slowed down and look at it, 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.080 and you'd part it with the license plates where you 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.880 could see it, and uh, word would get out there 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.760 somebody from Tennessee run here. Yeah, what's the name of 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.640 the little store down there? Well, the big malls what 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.240 they call it? Right, I ended up stopping I stopped 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:54.920 in there two or three times and just get a 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.800 coke and a pack of crackers, and uh start talking 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.720 to people. Told him that I was it was a 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.880 brick player from Tennessee that that recently moved here. And 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:04.840 my wife got a job in Hot Springs And now 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.920 I like a little turkey hunting. And I actually asked 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.920 a guy, if you had the best turkey hunt around here, 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.639 who would it be. I'd like to talk to somebody 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.840 about turkey hunt. He said, you need to talk to 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.399 Louis Dale. And I said, who's that? You knew what 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.600 he's gonna say, And I said who you know? I said, well, 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.040 who's that? And what he he? Oh? Yeah, hell, he'll 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.520 talk to you about he loves turkey. He did he 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.440 Did this guy give you any intel that Louis dell 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.119 Wood was a by later? No, he just said he 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:34.879 was turkey hunter, good turkey hunter. And I said, well, 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:36.119 how did I get in Dutch with him? Said, here, 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.119 I'll call him, and he called him. He picked up 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.760 the phone, he called him and uh, he got him 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.040 on the phone and put me on the phone with him, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:44.639 and and he said, well, why don't you come up 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:45.639 to the house. And he told me how to get 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.359 into the house. So he was real open to a 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.560 guy from Tennessee. Yeah, yes he was. Was that surprising? 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.560 Oh well, I was hoping by then that his curiosity 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.960 had that he had already known there was somebody pope 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.879 around because back then everybody knew where everybody hunted, and 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.800 everybody knew what everybody drove, and just a Tennessee tag 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.480 back in there would have been super unusual, exactly, And 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.320 and I knew that it was probably circulating around that community, 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.520 and eventually it turned out that it was. That was 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.800 the first thing as the first as the first thing 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.000 he said when I pulled up next front yard, he says, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.080 I wonder who that was. And so we just started, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.280 you know, having exchange about turkey hunting. And I wasn't 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.560 asking him where to hunt. Uh, you know, I told 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.400 him I was just an avid turkey hunter and I'd 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.639 like to hunt some of the areas. I understood he 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.320 was one of the best in the area. You know, 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.560 I would far didn't want to get in any areas 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.840 that he hunted, but could he just give me some 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.119 general advice on hunting turkeys in Arkansas? And he ate 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.399 that up. I told him some man I would loved. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:51.879 I had some good friends I probably never get to 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.720 hunt with again. And I know you probably playing folks 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.240 to hunt with, but if you ever get time, I'd 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.760 like to hunt with you. And we exchanged phone numbers. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.879 And you are a lot younger than him, well I 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.040 was probably about ten years younger. Okay, you know we 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:09.000 immediately had a connection there and everything and everything. That's 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.640 how I got started the story that Andy and Russ 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.040 both tell are incredibly similar, which is pretty wild considering 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.359 the thirty year gap in Andy's story being second hand. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.400 As Brent Reeves always says, if you want to get 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.440 two different stories, asked two eyewitnesses to the same thing. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.159 What happened. I'm amazed at how easily the details of 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.239 stories can get messed up, But not so here and 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.440 hey stick around until the second half of this podcast 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.720 when Dr Daniel Ruth tells us why we love Outlaws. 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.560 Russ continues, and so exchange phone numbers, and then what happened? 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.680 Change phone numbers. I didn't want to be too pushy. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.040 I waited a week or two. Season was getting ready. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.159 It was about probably a week or two away, and 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:01.800 I called him up, was look, I'm going to come 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.600 out scouting and and do some listening. Do you want 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:05.960 to go in? And he said, man, I ain't got 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.560 They said that first time. He told me he didn't 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:10.720 have time. And then he called me back and he 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:12.879 said yes. He said, if you can do it, it 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.480 was either like a Tuesday or Wednesday. One of the 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.160 isn't the middle week, I can do it the other day. 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.320 So he actually called me back and re schedule of 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.680 the day. So I went over there before daylight, picked 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.560 him up and we went out and he said, I'll 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.560 tell you what he said if he told me we're 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.560 to let him out. He said, I'm gonna walk this 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.520 ridge out. Show me on the map where you come out. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.400 He said, I'll walk this ridge out, and he told 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.720 me where to go. Listen, and he said, then you 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.480 can pick me up. And that's when I knew that 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:45.280 he was beginning to trust me. He said, no, look, 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:47.760 when you pick me up, I don't want anybody to 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.880 see me on the road. And when you pick me up, 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.199 we drove the section the road I was picked him up. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:54.679 He said, when you pick me up, there'll be a 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.840 limb laying in the edge of the road, and you 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.240 stop right there with that limb. Said, I'll jump out. 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.240 I'll jump in the truck from there. He said, we 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.040 don't need to let anybody see where we're getting in 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.640 and out. I said, I understand that. So I didn't 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.320 ask any questions. But that was just a scouting trip. 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:13.480 That was That was our first trip. He had heard 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.520 a couple of birds. I didn't hear anything. And I 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.520 told him, you went where you were supposed to go. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.000 I went when he came back, gave him a report. Yep, 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.640 come back, gave him report. I didn't hear anything, pretty country, 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:26.680 what about you? And he was excited he had heard 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.240 a couple of birds, and I said, well, I said, 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.080 do you think anybody be hunting them opening day? He said, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:33.840 they may be hunting them opening day, but they may 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.600 be dead before opening day. I said, okay, I said, 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.480 I can understand that. And I just said, if you 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:45.000 need help, let me know. If you need any help, 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:49.320 let me know. It's hard to imagine the dynamics of 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.600 what's going on here. Russ is trying to dupe a 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.240 man that's extremely suspicious of the law and known for 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.879 not getting caught. He's got to come across as genuine 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.240 as he invites himself on an illegal preseason turkey hunt, 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:09.320 which deep down he disdains the activity. It's an interesting 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.120 mental space. You see. Russ is from a real deal 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:18.080 turkey hunting family from Tennessee. Let's step outside of this story, 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.439 outside of this truck for just a second. I have 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.840 a personal question for Russ about his motivation for doing 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:30.080 what he's doing. I want to understand what he's feeling 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.720 at that moment because it's not what he's letting on. 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:40.080 What would you say your primary motivation inside of this, 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.680 because it's it's clear to me that you're you're a 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:47.119 hunter yourself. You're deeply connected to where you grew up hunting. 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.239 Is it a love for wildlife? Is it uh a 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.919 love for justice? What would you say would be a 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:57.480 primary motivator for you inside of this? I guess you 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.920 would have to say it's all wrapped up. And what 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.960 I mean by that was I was very fortunate to 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:07.200