Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: From the Heart where Innovation, money and power. Collie in
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley, Nbon.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York.
Speaker 4: There's the Bloomberg Technology coming up. Nissan in talks to
Speaker 4: merge with Honda. Why tech giant Fox con catalyze the
Speaker 4: autodial discussions plus data bricks. Valuation rises to sixty two
Speaker 4: billion dollars. We'll sit down with the CEO to discuss
Speaker 4: the company's AI strategy and its expansion, and all eyes
Speaker 4: on micron earnings after the closing bell, Can AI demand deliver? First,
Speaker 4: let's get to this key story of the day, the
Speaker 4: merger discussions Nissan and talks with Honda, and it would
Speaker 4: be a deal that could create the world's third largest
Speaker 4: automaker with a better chance to compete with the like
Speaker 4: Toyota and even Tesla in the EV space for example. Now,
Speaker 4: according to reports, the discussion between the two they accelerated
Speaker 4: off the Fox Cohn, the Taiwan based producer of iPhones,
Speaker 4: actually approached Nissan about taking a stake.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Crotodel joins us.
Speaker 4: Some more so interestingly, once again, is Japanese companies trying
Speaker 4: to fend off international investors.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you know this, This is a case
Speaker 5: of a company in Nissan that has been challenged for
Speaker 5: years now, and really since the moment that Carlos Gohn
Speaker 5: was unceremoniously taken out and arrested actually, you know, by
Speaker 5: folks in Japan. There was really concern within the government
Speaker 5: there about you know, the long term viability of this company,
Speaker 5: and I think a desire to kind of drive them
Speaker 5: into the arms of Honda. I think Honda was reluctant,
Speaker 5: and perhaps Fox Cohn with its you know, interest in
Speaker 5: entering the auto industry, it's interests in particular in electric vehicles,
Speaker 5: you know, knocking on Nissan's doors, I think, you know,
Speaker 5: it is sort of indicative of the sort of of
Speaker 5: prospect that would only you know, further alarm the Japanese government.
Speaker 4: I remember back in the day talking to carloscon about
Speaker 4: the Nissan Leaf. He was really upbeat about the scale
Speaker 4: of the market they had in electric vehicles. But now
Speaker 4: it pales into comparison to a Tesla, for example, How
Speaker 4: would the combined units be beneficial?
Speaker 5: I think importantly it would help Nissan in a real
Speaker 5: sort of blank space, which is hybrids. And you know,
Speaker 5: a few years ago we would have you know, sort
Speaker 5: of been talking about, you know, would hybrids have a
Speaker 5: future our Tesla's the way of the industry going forward.
Speaker 5: I think we've seen this real renaissance, particularly in the
Speaker 5: US market, but also in other parts of the world
Speaker 5: where you know, it's clear that consumers are still not
Speaker 5: ready yet to pull the trigger on a Nissan Leaf
Speaker 5: or a Tesla. And you know, it's been the case
Speaker 5: that Nissan has had a lot of issues, but one
Speaker 5: of them has been the complete lack of hybrids in
Speaker 5: the US market. Honda really has some strength and that
Speaker 5: regard and would help Nissan to better compete if these
Speaker 5: two were to combine.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: Hybrids will help in California in the future. Just talk
Speaker 4: us through what's coming from the Biden administration in terms
Speaker 4: of California regulations compelling people to have ev zero emission cars.
Speaker 2: In the future.
Speaker 5: Yeah, California you know, announced intentions quite a while ago
Speaker 5: to phase out combustion cars from twenty thirty five in
Speaker 5: order to actually you know, sort of en trine that
Speaker 5: and really protect that the state needs to go to
Speaker 5: the federal government and get a waiver. And there's a
Speaker 5: precedent for this going back decades where California, because of
Speaker 5: the issues unique issues that's had with air quality, going
Speaker 5: going back, you know, many years ago, there's precedent for
Speaker 5: it for the state to be able to set its
Speaker 5: own standards separate from the federal government. And there are
Speaker 5: many states that follow and adopt California's standards. So this
Speaker 5: is a case of the Biden administration kind of making
Speaker 5: more difficult on its way out the door. Any effort
Speaker 5: that the Trump administration, I think is inevitably going to
Speaker 5: try and and you know, take a stab at the
Speaker 5: various waivers that California has had to try and set
Speaker 5: tougher policies for the auto industry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see how it devised the next administration.
Speaker 4: Crotrudelle just a brilliant roundup of all things autos and evs.
Speaker 4: Let's get back though, to the semiconductor space right now,
Speaker 4: because that's really where we're looking at what's happening underneath
Speaker 4: the benchmarks. Mike cron of course reporting after the bell
Speaker 4: as well today, and that's really looking for growth in
Speaker 4: the company's high manwidth memory. As I mentioned the products there,
Speaker 4: it's all about AI, infrastructure, surprise price. Denny Fish as
Speaker 4: a man who knows exactly about all these things, put
Speaker 4: folio manager on the Global Tech and Innovation team. And
Speaker 4: Rick Janis Henderson Bess, you own all the big names
Speaker 4: when it comes to semiconductors, and cutos to you because
Speaker 4: you've had exposure to the biggest rallies of the year. Denny,
Speaker 4: what do you make of high bandwidth memory the focus
Speaker 4: on US chip makers to get into that space.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, we've witnessed probably the largest deployment of
Speaker 6: advanced semiconductor content ever in our history. And the reason
Speaker 6: that's happened is because we've advanced AI over the last
Speaker 6: couple of years and those advancements continue. I mean, we've
Speaker 6: really laid the tracks the last couple of years with
Speaker 6: pre training of all these models from open AI, from Google,
Speaker 6: with Gemini, Anthropic and others. And what's really interesting now
Speaker 6: is we're actually making the transition from from what we've
Speaker 6: seen with these models to reasoning. And that's a really
Speaker 6: big deal because now we're going to start seeing the
Speaker 6: handoff in a pretty material way for from pre training
Speaker 6: and training to actually inference and time based inference, and
Speaker 6: so that should continue to be quite good for accelerated computing.
Speaker 6: It's just the mix might get a little different over time.
Speaker 6: But as it relates to just you know, GPUs customasics
Speaker 6: from the hyperscalers, high bandwidth memory optics, you know, it
Speaker 6: should continue to be quite strong.
Speaker 4: Jonath Henderson has some exposure to Micron, but I'm not
Speaker 4: seeing it, for example, in your Global Technology Fund for example.
Speaker 2: I'm interested, therefore.
Speaker 4: More about what you think about the shift that we've
Speaker 4: seen going on from all in on picks and shovels,
Speaker 4: all in on the infrastructure build out when it comes
Speaker 4: to semiconductors, but now people moving across the software, now
Speaker 4: people thinking that it's the application lay that people are
Speaker 4: more interested in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's absolutely right. And you know, I actually think
Speaker 6: twenty twenty five is going to be a really interesting
Speaker 6: year because you can't put the investment into data centers
Speaker 6: that we put in over the last couple of years
Speaker 6: unless you start to monetize it. And we're actually starting
Speaker 6: to see breadcrumbs, particularly over the last couple of quarters
Speaker 6: from a lot of companies, and you know, you hit
Speaker 6: it on the head, you know, the application software ecosystem,
Speaker 6: whether that's publicly traded vendors that are starting to actually
Speaker 6: talk about specific contributions to their revenue models, or a
Speaker 6: ton of you know, startups obviously that are you know,
Speaker 6: racing to you know, disrupt the existing vendors and take
Speaker 6: advantage of this multi trillion dollar opportunity. And what's really
Speaker 6: interesting is, you know, the software industry, you know, over
Speaker 6: the last twenty years, you know, growed you know, I
Speaker 6: don't know, six seven hundred billion dollars in aggregate as
Speaker 6: it expanded the software TAM. But as you really start
Speaker 6: thinking about what AI can do, this jump to reasoning
Speaker 6: and where we're going from here, and it brings not
Speaker 6: only the software TAM into play, but this you know,
Speaker 6: larger you know services TAM that can be attacked by AI.
Speaker 6: And that's that should be really good for the software ecosystem.
Speaker 4: How are we going to start to see the wheek
Speaker 4: from the chaff?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 4: Though, Denny, throughout twenty twenty four, in many ways, all
Speaker 4: boats have risen until the second half and then we
Speaker 4: started to pit winners against losers.
Speaker 2: Are we going to see that continue? Look, we take
Speaker 2: a case.
Speaker 4: Study of Adobe just not managing to deliver when it
Speaker 4: comes to how much generative AI is going.
Speaker 2: To get to their bottom line compared.
Speaker 4: To paneteer that has just exploded ever higher because the
Speaker 4: AI opportunity.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well that's where we're at. And I mean, we've
Speaker 6: actually seen a narrowing in the semiconductor ecosystem in terms
Speaker 6: of the winners as we look at picks and shovels,
Speaker 6: and that's to be expected. Every time there's a big
Speaker 6: theme like this, you get a rising tide lifts all boats,
Speaker 6: and then you get a narrowing of.
Speaker 7: It, you know.
Speaker 6: And I think that's what we're going to see across
Speaker 6: the rest of the tech ecosystem, including software and twenty five.
Speaker 6: As you said, we'll separate the wheat from the chaff.
Speaker 6: The companies that are actually having meaningful contribution from AI,
Speaker 6: they're going to get higher multiples, their growth is going
Speaker 6: to accelerate, and it's going to be goodness. And then
Speaker 6: there are going to be companies that are clearly struggling
Speaker 6: to get to the right side of time, as you
Speaker 6: mentioned and Adobe's and you know, it's an interesting case
Speaker 6: study because it's been a heavily debated stock in the
Speaker 6: investment community for the last couple of years, as investors
Speaker 6: have gone from Adobe being on the right side of
Speaker 6: time as it relates to AI, to potentially being on
Speaker 6: the wrong side of time.
Speaker 4: Talking of wrong side of time, many trying to pass
Speaker 4: what the right or wrong side of the next administration
Speaker 4: is going to be. This is going to affect, for example,
Speaker 4: some Internet names. I know that you focus in on
Speaker 4: Denny And at the moment, we've got the breaking news
Speaker 4: that the US Supreme Court is going to hear arguments
Speaker 4: over a TikTok divestment. We're going to dig into that
Speaker 4: in a moment, but we do see regulatory implications for
Speaker 4: a lot of companies coming.
Speaker 2: How do you navigate that?
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, not too differently than how we've navigated it
Speaker 6: for the last handful of years. And what I mean
Speaker 6: by that, we've had a very hostile backdrop for the
Speaker 6: last four years. So is it going to get worse?
Speaker 6: It's probably hard to get worse. Is it going to
Speaker 6: get better? Might get a little bit better in certain areas,
Speaker 6: but I expect it to continue to be a difficult
Speaker 6: environment for large cap tech. You know, that diminishes the
Speaker 6: opportunity for them to do M and A and then
Speaker 6: it also you know, we will continue to see aggressive
Speaker 6: postures from the DOJ like we've seen with the Google case.
Speaker 4: Dannie Fish, portfolio manager at Janis Henderson Investors really taking
Speaker 4: us across pulp Brett to the tech ecosystem. We thank you,
Speaker 4: and look, let's just dig into that. Breaking news now
Speaker 4: on TikTok. The Supreme Court has announced that it will
Speaker 4: hear TikTok's challenge to its US ban on January the tenth,
Speaker 4: just days of course before it's potential ban or divest
Speaker 4: argument coming January the nineteenth. We're seeing the implications for Snap.
Speaker 4: For example, snapshares currently falling, Meta shares.
Speaker 2: Have impairing their gain.
Speaker 4: On the news now coming up cracking down on China
Speaker 4: made hips the latest action being taken by the Biden
Speaker 4: administration to combat national security and competition concerns. That's next,
Speaker 4: bring their technology. Get back to the breaking TikTok news.
Speaker 4: Acrossing this plumemberg terminal is the news that the Supreme
Speaker 4: Court will indeed hear TikTok's arguments on January tenth, before
Speaker 4: a potential ban which is likely to come into place
Speaker 4: on January the nineteenth Bluemog's Kaylee lines Josephs for more.
Speaker 4: Of course, this is all regarding it's either to divest
Speaker 4: or be banned on January the nineteenth, but they managed
Speaker 4: to get the Supreme Court to hear the argument.
Speaker 8: Yeah, of course, TikTok, since this law was first passed
Speaker 8: in a bipartisan manner by Congress and then signed into
Speaker 8: law by President Biden earlier this year, has contended that
Speaker 8: it violates the right to free speech embedded in the
Speaker 8: Bill of Rights in the US Constitution. So that is
Speaker 8: the grounds with which TikTok is pursuing this appeal at
Speaker 8: the Supreme Court, after having lost an appeal in the DC.
Speaker 2: Circuit Federal Court of Appeals.
Speaker 8: Which voted three to zero against the company's arguments, saying
Speaker 8: that Congress as well with and its rates within concerns
Speaker 8: over national security to put into place this band. So
Speaker 8: we'll see how this goes on January tenth, as you say,
Speaker 8: Carolina's just nine days before this band is set to
Speaker 8: go into effect. But keep in mind this Supreme Court
Speaker 8: does have a conservative majority, three justices of which were
Speaker 8: appointed by then President and now President elect Donald Trump,
Speaker 8: who earlier this week at a press conference in mar
Speaker 8: A Lago, when asked about the TikTok Ban said that
Speaker 8: he has a warm place in his hurt for TikTok,
Speaker 8: talking about how he does think it's one of the
Speaker 8: reasons why he was able to pick up more of
Speaker 8: the youth vote, and at marra A Lago on that
Speaker 8: very same day this week he met with TikTok CEO
Speaker 8: Show Choo. So it'll be interesting to see if we
Speaker 8: hear from the President elect on the Supreme Court's decision
Speaker 8: to hear TikTok's arguments on January.
Speaker 4: Tenth's having market implications. We see Snap, for example, losing
Speaker 4: some market value on the back of this as people
Speaker 4: try to price in whether or not TikTok will be
Speaker 4: remaining as a competitor. Meta also pairing some of its
Speaker 4: earlier gains.
Speaker 2: Katie.
Speaker 4: All of this comes in the context of US versus China.
Speaker 4: We've had the breaking news today that Biden is going
Speaker 4: to be announcing well a Chinese semiconductor probe here in
Speaker 4: the coming days.
Speaker 2: Another area of tip.
Speaker 8: For tat absolutely and this one is interesting, Caroline, because
Speaker 8: this probe will specifically be looking at foundational chips. The
Speaker 8: older generation ones that of course are the backbone to
Speaker 8: everything from cars to smartphones. Knowing this administration already for
Speaker 8: the last several years has been putting into place export
Speaker 8: controls around advanced semiconductor technology, so the things that go
Speaker 8: into say artificial intelligence, trying to restrain China's ability to
Speaker 8: control that technology. But the concern that this White House
Speaker 8: still has in its waning days is that China, because
Speaker 8: it's still producing these older chips, is going to be
Speaker 8: able to flood the market with them and therefore makes
Speaker 8: say American companies less competitive. Already, this administration had announced
Speaker 8: that they would like to raise the tariff on older
Speaker 8: chips from twenty five percent to fifty percent by twenty
Speaker 8: twenty five, but according to people familiar with the matter,
Speaker 8: the feeling of the administration is that is not enough
Speaker 8: to actually adequately protect competition. Hence the launching of this
Speaker 8: investigation the rub Caroline and is while this investigation will
Speaker 8: be launching, the inauguration where Joe Biden will leave the
Speaker 8: office and Donald Trump will take it is just over
Speaker 8: thirty days away, So ultimately the conclusion of the probe
Speaker 8: the findings will be left up to the discretion of
Speaker 8: Donald Trump as to how to handle them, whether that
Speaker 8: will be tariffs or other restrictions around trade. We do
Speaker 8: know though that the President elect is not shy when
Speaker 8: it comes to tariff's in China, Caroline, he.
Speaker 2: Loves the word m Kaylee. Just set the context then.
Speaker 4: Because also we know that he did invite President She
Speaker 4: we understand, to the inauguration.
Speaker 2: So could yes, a.
Speaker 4: Lot of this end not being implemented because deals are done.
Speaker 2: Well, that's entirely possible.
Speaker 8: And it's a live conversation here in Washington as to
Speaker 8: whether or not the tariffs that Donald Trump has threatened,
Speaker 8: not just technology but all goods coming from China are
Speaker 8: just a negotiating tactic, a way to start the conversation
Speaker 8: to extract more from China that he would see, basically,
Speaker 8: a way to use leverage that remains to be seen.
Speaker 8: But it will be up to his discretion if he
Speaker 8: does want to act if these findings do conclude that
Speaker 8: there are unfair trade practices China is involved in when
Speaker 8: it comes to this very critical technology that the US
Speaker 8: has already heavily invested in developing here in the States.
Speaker 8: I would not as well, Caroline, that while a lot
Speaker 8: of this is the discretion of the president. Congress is
Speaker 8: consistently acting hawkishly toward China as well. It is Congress
Speaker 8: where the TikTok band originated, where we've seen a lot
Speaker 8: of restrictions pass through law, and in the continuing funding
Speaker 8: resolution that was just released last night, it also includes
Speaker 8: language related to outbound investment into China restrictions. So this
Speaker 8: is something we're seeing really across the board.
Speaker 4: Kayley lines, thank you very much. Indeed, all things US China.
Speaker 4: Now it's time for talking tech. And first up, the
Speaker 4: risk of blackouts.
Speaker 2: They're going to.
Speaker 4: Increase for most of North America over the coming decade,
Speaker 4: according to a report by a grid reliability regulator. Then,
Speaker 4: the report underschool's utility challenges as demand is forecast arise
Speaker 4: the most in decades, of course, driven by AI and
Speaker 4: the electrification of the economy.
Speaker 2: Plus, a new court order.
Speaker 4: Issued Monday says TikTok must turnover its source code and
Speaker 4: financial data. This after plays from the Chinese tech company
Speaker 4: Beijing Machine Network accuse the social media platform of copyright
Speaker 4: infringement and misappropriation of trade secrets. A Meta's Instagram is
Speaker 4: expected to account for half of the company's and revenue
Speaker 4: in the United States. That's according to estimates from research
Speaker 4: firm E Marketer, Instagram is now expected to top thirty
Speaker 4: two billion dollars in US advertising revenue in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: Up more than twenty four percent from the current year.
Speaker 4: Coming up, sam MoOx aq and announces a major new
Speaker 4: funding round.
Speaker 2: CEO Jack Hidari is with us.
Speaker 4: The next we're going to be discussing the company's plans
Speaker 4: to use the course AI and innovate everything from medical
Speaker 4: devices to cybersecurity, AQ AI and quantum.
Speaker 2: This is remote technology.
Speaker 4: AI solutions company sandmox Aq has closed its latest round
Speaker 4: of funding, raising three hundred million dollars funding. The company,
Speaker 4: now a five point six big company, says the investment
Speaker 4: will be used to further its development in areas like
Speaker 4: drug discovery, cybersecurity, navigation, and medical devices, or using its
Speaker 4: own AI techniques. Sunbox aqco Jack Henry is here with us.
Speaker 2: Let's talk large quantitative models.
Speaker 4: How is what you're building different from the large language
Speaker 4: models we've all had to wrap our head around.
Speaker 2: Karling.
Speaker 7: Good to see you. First of all, great to be
Speaker 7: here live on set in the world of Zoom. It's
Speaker 7: great to be in person for once. This is a
Speaker 7: fundamental new area of AI. So I think we're familiar
Speaker 7: with chat GPT, we're familiar with large language models, wonderful
Speaker 7: set of applications, millions of people using it around the
Speaker 7: world as it should be. Now comes large quantitative models,
Speaker 7: and when we look at the majority of the business
Speaker 7: sectors the economy, we look at biopharma, chemicals, energy, financial services.
Speaker 7: These are all quantitatively driven, non language driven, and so
Speaker 7: the majority of our economy is actually depending on quantitative relationships.
Speaker 7: An example would be in biopharma. Let's say we want
Speaker 7: to create a new drug for a certain cancer or
Speaker 7: Alzheimer's or Parkinson's. We probably don't want to take the
Speaker 7: drug of the language model trained on Reddit and cat
Speaker 7: pictures probably not recommend it. But we can use large
Speaker 7: language models to summarize scientific literature for example.
Speaker 2: That's wonderful.
Speaker 7: But when it comes to actually the quantitative relationship of
Speaker 7: creating the drug, seeing if it fits at that receptor,
Speaker 7: and developing that all throughout the clinical trial, that's a
Speaker 7: job for large quantitative models. The data is fundamentally different,
Speaker 7: the models are different.
Speaker 2: The whole field is.
Speaker 4: A new area, and how practical is it in its
Speaker 4: application right here, right now, when you're raising three hundred
Speaker 4: million dollars.
Speaker 2: What is that for? Is that fat talent?
Speaker 4: Is that to actually drive the necessary.
Speaker 2: Improvements in the models? What is it that you're going
Speaker 2: to be fine tuning?
Speaker 7: Well, the goodness is, over the last two three years
Speaker 7: since our spinout, we've now proven with customer after customer
Speaker 7: that it actually is having impact. For example, UCSF University
Speaker 7: of California, San Francisco, one of the best places for
Speaker 7: biomedical work. Stamprusner is a Nobel laureate there using our
Speaker 7: software to advance his drugs for NEURODJN diseases right now.
Speaker 7: So this is having impact today. It's running today on
Speaker 7: the GPUs on Nvidia and TPUs from Alphabet.
Speaker 2: It's running right now.
Speaker 7: And these are quantitative models again, not trained on the
Speaker 7: corpus of words of the Internet, but trained on the
Speaker 7: relationships of chemicals and atoms and those kind of dynamic relationships.
Speaker 7: So it's having impact right now, Carolina.
Speaker 4: Because what's interesting, of course he's talked about a spinoff.
Speaker 2: It was a spinoff from Google. Your chair is Eric Schmidt.
Speaker 4: We understand the sort of way in which the company
Speaker 4: first was born and then we look at what's happening
Speaker 4: with Google Quantum, the Willow Chip. Everyone's deeply excited about
Speaker 4: real applications to quantum in the next five ten years.
Speaker 2: Is that realistic? Well, it's a great question.
Speaker 7: Why do we call our company sambox AQ? What's the
Speaker 7: AQ A for AIQ for quantum and so years ago
Speaker 7: we already saw that advanced compute really has two engines.
Speaker 7: It has the AI engine of large language Models, Large
Speaker 7: quantitative Models lqms, but it now also has the queue
Speaker 7: the quantum and the breakthrough that Google announced just last week,
Speaker 7: our colleague hartmand Nevin, who announced that at the Santa
Speaker 7: Barbara campus of Google, is a wonderful example of the
Speaker 7: milestones being achieved in the quantum hardware space. We don't
Speaker 7: build quantum hardware, We use quantum hardware as it progresses
Speaker 7: to business impact. Today quantum computers are very early, but
Speaker 7: what Google showed last week with the Willow chap is
Speaker 7: that as you scale the number of cubics, you can
Speaker 7: actually decrease the number of errors. That was a critical
Speaker 7: milestone Caroline, in terms of how we can advance quantum computing.
Speaker 2: So the future that.
Speaker 7: We see is one that has GPUs and QPUs quantum
Speaker 7: processing units together working together in a mesh in the
Speaker 7: hybrid cloud that I think is the future, and we're
Speaker 7: going to see I think, very significant progress over the
Speaker 7: next five six years in the quantum hardware itself.
Speaker 4: All of that means your applications become well, how quickly
Speaker 4: are you going to be making money.
Speaker 2: From this for your investors that we've just been seeing.
Speaker 7: Well, the good news is we're already generating revenue today.
Speaker 7: We're creating a lot of value for our customers today.
Speaker 7: And so be it in biropharma, be it in the
Speaker 7: chemicals and material space, be it in battery chemistry. We
Speaker 7: know the importance of batteries, not just for electric vehicles. Actually,
Speaker 7: the bigger market for batteries are stationary batteries to store
Speaker 7: energy from renewable sources. That's actually the bigger market. But
Speaker 7: we must leap frog beyond lithium ion technology. This again
Speaker 7: is a job for an l QM, a large quantitative
Speaker 7: model versus an l LM, and so I think that
Speaker 7: the number of applications are really numerous, and we raise
Speaker 7: this money in order to advance our investment in the
Speaker 7: product development. We do want to hire more PhDs, more
Speaker 7: software engineers. We have quite a few ready, but it's
Speaker 7: time to hire more. So those listening who have those
Speaker 7: kind of skills please contact us.
Speaker 4: Hey, well, Jack Hnary is Samox AQCEO. Welcome back to
Speaker 4: BLOEMG Technology. I'm Karen Hide in New York. Let's dig
Speaker 4: into what's happening in the crypto side of things, because
Speaker 4: another risk asset of choice that's trading in a sensetive
Speaker 4: manner ahead of the federal reserve is bitcoin. We're now
Speaker 4: one hundred three thousand. Remember yesterday we managed to peak
Speaker 4: above one hundred and eight thousand dollars per token, so
Speaker 4: we're just seeing a little bit of money coming off
Speaker 4: ahead of also the holidays as well. Mike's strategy down
Speaker 4: as of course, it's basically a bitcoin proxy here, but
Speaker 4: interestingly we were hearing from Michael Sailor a little bit
Speaker 4: earlier Washington considering a potential cryptoregulation. How it's going to
Speaker 4: basically iterate and micro Strategy is continuing to be buying bitcoin,
Speaker 4: bringing its total investments to roughly forty five billion dollars.
Speaker 4: The chairman, Michael Saylor, spoke to Bloomberg earlier on why
Speaker 4: the company is investing in the digital asset and continuing
Speaker 4: to do so.
Speaker 2: When whether he'd consider a role in shaping new crypto.
Speaker 9: Policy, take listen, I've met with a lot of people
Speaker 9: in the incoming administration, but I couldn't comment further than that.
Speaker 10: Okay, I can't comment further than that. I was going
Speaker 10: to ask you about plans, but said I'll ask you
Speaker 10: about whether or not you would be willing to serve
Speaker 10: in the Trump administration in any capacity. Bloomberg has reported
Speaker 10: that there potentially could be a crypto advisory council. Is
Speaker 10: that something that you might be interested in?
Speaker 9: You know, I'm always willing to provide, you know, thoughts
Speaker 9: on constructive digital assets policy, either in confidence or publicly,
Speaker 9: And if I'm asked to serve on some sort of
Speaker 9: digital assets advisory counseling, probably would do so.
Speaker 11: Yes, Michael, I also want to talk to you about
Speaker 11: micro strategy, your own plans. It's amazing you have announced
Speaker 11: plans to raise forty two billion dollars over three years.
Speaker 11: You announced that back in October. But the rate you're
Speaker 11: going at, and this is through confortable debt offerings, stock sales,
Speaker 11: the rate you're going at you could fulfill that target
Speaker 11: by January. Are you planning to lift that cap and
Speaker 11: line up more facilities in the pursuit of more bitcoin.
Speaker 9: Yeah. When we bounced it, it wasn't clear how enthusiastic the
Speaker 9: capital markets would be, but we got a very enthusiastic reception.
Speaker 9: And then after November fifth with the Red Wave, we
Speaker 9: saw a big sea change in the political environment, and
Speaker 9: so we went faster than we had thought we were
Speaker 9: going to go. On October thirtieth, our goal is to
Speaker 9: is to continue to raise capital, primarily through fixed income markets.
Speaker 9: So we'll pursue preferred stock or convertible bond or other
Speaker 9: equity linked financings as long as it's creative for our shareholders.
Speaker 9: When we get through the twenty one twenty one plan,
Speaker 9: which is forty two billion in capital, we'll revisit revisit
Speaker 9: our capital plan, and we'll put in place a new plan,
Speaker 9: subject to market conditions at the time.
Speaker 4: Micro Strategy Chairman Michael Sailor and political roles in the
Speaker 4: future of his bitcoin buying. Let's talk a little bit
Speaker 4: more now with the Defiance etfco and CEO Sylvia Jablunsk.
Speaker 4: You've got Defiance Daily target two x long micro strategy.
Speaker 2: ETF always demand.
Speaker 4: For those sorts of leverage products on MicroStrategy.
Speaker 3: At the moment, demand is on fire. That's the best
Speaker 3: way I can put it. You know, we've seen billions
Speaker 3: of dollars of assets flowing into this ETF. It's by
Speaker 3: far the fastest growing ETF.
Speaker 2: That we've ever seen.
Speaker 3: And I think the reason is that, you know, Bitcoin
Speaker 3: has just taken off, and whether that's because of the
Speaker 3: commercialization of bitcoin, ETF's holding bitcoin, you know, favorable policy
Speaker 3: with the new government coming into office. I just think
Speaker 3: that there's this huge tailwind and who is the best
Speaker 3: proxy for bitcoin.
Speaker 2: It's micro strategy. So stock listed on an.
Speaker 3: Exchange as a single name, it trades as a leverage
Speaker 3: you know, version of bitcoin, and we've now leveraged it
Speaker 3: two times and so this you know, short term volatility.
Speaker 3: Traders love the ETF and it's just been wildly popular.
Speaker 4: And from an institutional perspective as well as a retail.
Speaker 3: Perspective, absolutely both institutions in retail. I think what's great
Speaker 3: about the institutional angle is that some institutions are still
Speaker 3: sort of weary about holding bitcoin itself, whether it's through
Speaker 3: the digital wallet or using an ETF for it. But
Speaker 3: you know, micro strategy is just a sock, right that
Speaker 3: trades on an exchange, and so they are able to
Speaker 3: put that in their portfolios. And I think that shows
Speaker 3: up a lot of demand.
Speaker 4: A very volatile holding in portfolios taught to us about. Therefore,
Speaker 4: when you're looking at the hype cycles around, whether it's
Speaker 4: crypto or AI parent contrast, how much you's still seeing
Speaker 4: people wanting to pour into the infrastructure slide of the
Speaker 4: AI bet and other.
Speaker 2: Ets you have exposure to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that the demand is that it's all
Speaker 3: time high, right ever since the Chat Shiepyte moment and
Speaker 3: now the Google Willow moment and you know crypto and
Speaker 3: kind of all the buzz around that. You know, there's
Speaker 3: trillions of dollars of cash sitting on the sidelines. There's
Speaker 3: the biggest wealth transfer of our generation happening as we speak.
Speaker 3: And you know gen Z, you know gen Z, Millennial
Speaker 3: gen X kind of you know.
Speaker 2: The younger traders are.
Speaker 3: This is where they're allocating their funds too. And you know,
Speaker 3: retail has definitely spoken, institutions have definitely spoken, and they're
Speaker 3: looking for that Fourth Industrial Revolution allocation, and you know,
Speaker 3: the biggest trades right now are basically quantum and micro strategy.
Speaker 4: Let's go into quantum because we just had Jack Hetery
Speaker 4: on from sam max AQ and talking about how we're
Speaker 4: starting to see quantum theory.
Speaker 2: Be put into practice.
Speaker 4: You just mentioned Willow and their breakthroughs over at Google.
Speaker 2: Which other stock should people be looking at?
Speaker 4: Are they only dominating on the big companies that have
Speaker 4: got exposure to quantum.
Speaker 2: Like an IBM or Google. Are they're going smaller?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so we kind of looked at this space
Speaker 3: and what I liked about what Jack explained. His company
Speaker 3: has the A and the Q, the AI and the quantum.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 3: So, so chat gpt AI is you know, kind of
Speaker 3: version one. Quantum is taking everything to the next level.
Speaker 2: So you need quantum in order for AI to be efficient.
Speaker 2: You need to process that data quickly.
Speaker 3: It will help you know, essentially healthcare, cryptography, aerospace, and defense,
Speaker 3: you know, blockchain technology, anything you can think of will
Speaker 3: be bettered with quantum supercomputing power. And so the most
Speaker 3: popular stocks right now are are a combination of large
Speaker 3: cabs and small caps. Right, so you have like the ibms,
Speaker 3: the Googles, the n videos. Some of these companies are
Speaker 3: actually very relevant hp IBM. And then the smaller names
Speaker 3: that are taking off hundreds of you know, one hundreds
Speaker 3: percentage points of performance are companies like d Wave ion
Speaker 3: Cue for Gratty Computing. We actually married them in our
Speaker 3: ETF Quantum. So you have the large caps and the
Speaker 3: small caps, so the ballast and the quality earnings with
Speaker 3: the high flyers and the movers that are just winning.
Speaker 4: Just look at these high flies for a moment, Like,
Speaker 4: we're not basically one thousand percent on DWave Quantum over
Speaker 4: the last year to date.
Speaker 2: Two hundred percent.
Speaker 4: How how cautious have been people getting into these wildly
Speaker 4: volatile names, even if they are.
Speaker 2: Open to the right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think that people have been doing
Speaker 3: a combination of both. Right, So they're getting into these
Speaker 3: smaller names, but they're also looking at things like the
Speaker 3: ETFs at all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, you want to kind of like balance.
Speaker 3: It with the Googles, right, I think Google is a
Speaker 3: company that does many, many things that can perform quite well,
Speaker 3: and so it kind of like balances your risk on
Speaker 3: the small caps. But also again it comes back to
Speaker 3: the you know, administration, administration will be very favorable of
Speaker 3: quantum you know, rate cuts, you know kind of we're
Speaker 3: freedom for M and A activity and theory, and so
Speaker 3: that also helped the backdrop pubs along with just the
Speaker 3: super high fining technology that's moving forward.
Speaker 2: All lies on the FED in about an hour or
Speaker 2: so's time.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you for taking it back to macro
Speaker 4: policy too. Defiance ETF CEO Silvi Jablonski. Happy holidays. Now,
Speaker 4: let's just talk about Eno Musk and SpaceX for a moment,
Speaker 4: because they've repeatedly failed to comply with federal reporting protocols
Speaker 4: aimed at protecting state secrets, triggering several federal reviews.
Speaker 2: This is all being cited by the New York Times.
Speaker 2: They're looking at sources there now.
Speaker 4: The Air Force also recently denied mask a high level
Speaker 4: security access, citing potential security risks. Meanwhile, here's what SpaceX
Speaker 4: president when Shotwell said about the company's relationship with the
Speaker 4: Air Force and an event with a Center of Strategic
Speaker 4: and International Studies just yesterday.
Speaker 12: We have, we had a rough relationship early on with
Speaker 12: the Air Force, but we have over the last probably
Speaker 12: eleven ten or eleven years, I think, developed a really
Speaker 12: a really great relationship. Frankly, I think there's do you know,
Speaker 12: it takes a long time to build trust, and I
Speaker 12: think we're we're I think we're finally there.
Speaker 4: Elsewhere in space, NASA announcing another delay in the mission
Speaker 4: to bring back two US astronauts who are stranded for
Speaker 4: months on the International Space Station and now saying they
Speaker 4: will remain there at least until late March Tuesday.
Speaker 2: That's it. Time currently for home coming up.
Speaker 4: Data Bricks sixty two billion dollar valuation. We speak with
Speaker 4: Ali Godzi's Data Bricks CEO.
Speaker 2: That's next. This is Blue meg Technology.
Speaker 4: Data Bricks raising ten billion dollars in new funding bring
Speaker 4: the software makers valuation to sixty two billion dollars.
Speaker 2: The company says it intends to invest this capital towards
Speaker 2: new AI products.
Speaker 4: To acquisitions, significant expansion in its international go to market
Speaker 4: operation for more Data Bricks CEO Aligotzi joins us.
Speaker 2: Now, boy, it's been busy.
Speaker 4: Let's just talk a little bit about the AI applications
Speaker 4: and just where you see the wide open space at
Speaker 4: the moment for Data Bricks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for having me on. There's so many
Speaker 1: applications across many different protocols, you know, lots and lots
Speaker 1: of customers that are using us for AI and then
Speaker 1: a processing I should say, starting with Rivan. For instance,
Speaker 1: the carmaker uses us to optimize the batteries of their
Speaker 1: electric vehicles. You know, Walgreens uses us to figure out
Speaker 1: how much should they stock up the inventory and their
Speaker 1: supply chain. It's super important price for them to be
Speaker 1: able to optimize their prices and lower their CEOs. And
Speaker 1: then square or block. They used to have these app
Speaker 1: where you swipe your credit cards, but to set that
Speaker 1: up in a store used to be pretty complicated a
Speaker 1: few years ago. Now it's super simple because you can
Speaker 1: use generative AI and just tell it, hey, I have
Speaker 1: these five products, this is the price, and it sets
Speaker 1: itself up just using generive AI.
Speaker 4: So before you were unifying to moockratizing data. Now it's
Speaker 4: about the applications of AI.
Speaker 2: But for that also you.
Speaker 4: Need talent ALI and I'm interested as to where the
Speaker 4: next layer of talent is coming from. Where you need
Speaker 4: to hone in on how you get them on board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there is a crazy war for AI
Speaker 1: talent right now. I've never seen anything like it before.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a you know talent war was already
Speaker 1: crazy last ten years for software engineers. Now in AI
Speaker 1: it's just completely insane. So we are going to use
Speaker 1: a lot of the proceeds towards that to be competitive.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of talent you know, was hired by
Speaker 1: Open AI and Bianthrofic. What's happened is we've hit this
Speaker 1: thing called the scaling wall.
Speaker 4: Now you know, oh you think there is a wall,
Speaker 4: do because some altman's determine there isn't one.
Speaker 1: There is a wall. I think it's it's pretty clear
Speaker 1: that most even those big companies, many of them are
Speaker 1: now investing in other techniques, not the classic scaling laws.
Speaker 1: So that actually also has opened up the opportunity where
Speaker 1: people are now going There are more companies now that
Speaker 1: can participate in this next chapter after the you know,
Speaker 1: scaling wall or the scaling laws. So that's also very
Speaker 1: exciting times. But you got to pay up for that talent.
Speaker 2: You've got to pay up. Do you pay up for
Speaker 2: us talent?
Speaker 4: I'm going to make it personal, Ali, because yourself are
Speaker 4: an immigrant originally Iran, moved over to Sweden, come over
Speaker 4: to the United States, and I'm interested in how much
Speaker 4: you look abroad particularly in the context of the next administration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well look, not because of the administration, but when
Speaker 1: there is this crazy talent war going on, you of
Speaker 1: course start looking at you know, where can we go
Speaker 1: where it's not so intense, right, where the competition is
Speaker 1: not so intense, So we look everywhere. You know, I
Speaker 1: think Eastern Europe is super interesting, very smart people that
Speaker 1: live there, and you know, it's just different. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't have that intensity of a competition around the
Speaker 1: talent Europe and of course Asia. I'm in the location,
Speaker 1: so we're looking at.
Speaker 6: All of those.
Speaker 1: But still you don't want to you know, you don't
Speaker 1: want to ignore Silicon Valley or United States. It's still
Speaker 1: where you have the highest talent density. It's absolutely necessary,
Speaker 1: So we're going to compete here as well.
Speaker 2: Is it about acqui hiring?
Speaker 4: I mean you've been inquisitive and some of that in
Speaker 4: els based music mL for example, some of that in
Speaker 4: the data side tabula for example. You're going to make
Speaker 4: acquisitions because of the people or because of the products
Speaker 4: being built.
Speaker 1: Well both, you know, there's three things you could get.
Speaker 1: You could also get revenue, right, but there's a lot
Speaker 1: of startups that started super talented people amazing ip, but
Speaker 1: they quite didn't get to the revenue. So it's, you know,
Speaker 1: two birds with one stone. You get that talent and
Speaker 1: you get their intellectual property, and in this race, you
Speaker 1: need that right, you need both of those things. So
Speaker 1: absolutely we're going to actually double down on that even
Speaker 1: more now that we have this funding.
Speaker 4: It's a race, but there's also a race versus your
Speaker 4: competition at the moment to be getting those clients who
Speaker 4: are your key competitors Because I know on LinkedIn you've
Speaker 4: been throwing some shade at Snowflake for example.
Speaker 2: We all think about Microsoft.
Speaker 4: Are they the two competitors for you?
Speaker 1: You know it fact I would say that was in
Speaker 1: previous years. You know, I would say a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago we were really intensely focused on competing with them.
Speaker 1: Now in this AI era, that's kind of shifted and
Speaker 1: Microsoft is.
Speaker 6: Super important partner.
Speaker 1: In fact, Microsoft on and Google our investors in data bricks.
Speaker 1: There is some competition. They have products that sometimes compete
Speaker 1: as well, but all uh, you know those companies the
Speaker 1: majority of the revenue in the cloud is storage, compute, networking,
Speaker 1: and you know that might be seventy percent of their revenue.
Speaker 1: I'm speculating, and we're a killer app for that. We
Speaker 1: drive so much storage, compute, and networking. In fact, we
Speaker 1: drive close to thirty million machines in the cloud every
Speaker 1: day that we launch. So we're super close partners and
Speaker 1: they love us as customers and vice versa. But there's
Speaker 1: that little coopetition happening as well, and probably that's going
Speaker 1: to expand over time. As you know, AI is becoming
Speaker 1: more and more important.
Speaker 4: There's one big game of frenemies out there. And when
Speaker 4: it comes to technology, Ali, I'm interested in particular when
Speaker 4: you're thinking about how you're raising money. Ten billion is
Speaker 4: a lot for live capital front and center there.
Speaker 2: You've also got who's who of other investors.
Speaker 4: With a sixteen Z for example. What's interesting, you're also
Speaker 4: going to the debt markets. We understand how is that going?
Speaker 4: Because that seems to be trying to offset the tax
Speaker 4: implications to keep your employees.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a great point. I think let's
Speaker 1: take them one by one. Let's take the equities. You know,
Speaker 1: the equity raise for us, it's super important to get
Speaker 1: partners that are long term oriented. We want investors that
Speaker 1: are going to say, you know, we're going to be
Speaker 1: with you probably ten years, twenty years.
Speaker 10: This is a great price.
Speaker 1: We'll buy again more and later in the ideo will
Speaker 1: buy even more, and we'll stick you know, to your plan,
Speaker 1: and we'll let you implement that long term vision and
Speaker 1: not become too short term oriented, you know, the ninety
Speaker 1: to quarterly sort of mindset. So that was the thing
Speaker 1: we optimized for, and we were pretty picky. We had
Speaker 1: nineteen billion of interests in this round and basically cut
Speaker 1: people back to half of that, and we said no
Speaker 1: to most investors. And then on the death financing, that
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense as well. If the company
Speaker 1: is growing in valuation so much, then actually you're better
Speaker 1: off just getting a big loan. Even if interest rates
Speaker 1: are high and you're paying let's say just make that
Speaker 1: number round number ten percent interest on that, you're better
Speaker 1: off taking that as a loan and paying that back
Speaker 1: in a few years because you can pay that back
Speaker 1: in equity then, and presumably the company has doubled in valuation.
Speaker 1: Let's call it into three years.
Speaker 4: Okay, one hundred and twenty billion, looking at it for
Speaker 4: the next couple of years, and you've given us the
Speaker 4: timescale potentially for an IPO as well, Ali Gotzi. Always
Speaker 4: great to have you on data. Rick CEO, congrats on
Speaker 4: the fundraise. Meanwhile, let's talk about concerns over AI's global
Speaker 4: boom receiving Bipowerisan support in Congress in a framework report
Speaker 4: released on Tuesday recommending guardrails and regulations on AI really
Speaker 4: being detailed in an effort to protect Americans and maintain
Speaker 4: national security. We spent with Senator Amy Klobershaw of Minnesota,
Speaker 4: who had this to say on regulating AI.
Speaker 13: My view has been that we should have rules of
Speaker 13: the road in place, by the way, for all platforms.
Speaker 13: I have been way out there, as I think, you know,
Speaker 13: in terms of getting not just pornography off the Internet,
Speaker 13: but other very very difficult things that are on there.
Speaker 4: Right now, let's go back to those regulatory proposals, Bloomberg
Speaker 4: Government reporter Omer City joins us. Now, it was a
Speaker 4: comprehensive list of recommendations.
Speaker 2: What were the key takeaways for you?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 14: Congress released this major policy paper this week addressing AI
Speaker 14: on various areas. They touched on education, healthcare, financial services, agriculture,
Speaker 14: national security. Because they're trying to examine what AI's impacts
Speaker 14: are on each of these areas and how Congress should respond.
Speaker 14: The key takeaway is that Congress is seeking to strike
Speaker 14: this balance. They want to promote AI because they believe
Speaker 14: it has tremendous opportunity, you know, to unleash human productivity
Speaker 14: to solve complex issues. But at the same time, they're
Speaker 14: well aware of AI's risks, and so they want to
Speaker 14: protect the American people and uphold their civil liberties.
Speaker 4: Very briefly, urgent is what we expect to come next
Speaker 4: from Congress.
Speaker 14: Right, So that's the key question. How do they translate
Speaker 14: these recommendations into action.
Speaker 2: We saw Senator Amy Kolochar there.
Speaker 14: She's proposing, you know, to combat this issue of non
Speaker 14: consensual explicit deep fakes or deep fake pornography, which has
Speaker 14: been around for a while, but AI has only accelerated
Speaker 14: the spread, which has alarmed many many lawmakers. And so
Speaker 14: that's an area where Congress is eager tacked quickly. Another
Speaker 14: area that Congress is eager tacked is to increase you know,
Speaker 14: scientific research and development in AI, expand energy infrastructure to
Speaker 14: me AI demands, train the workforce, educate folks on AI,
Speaker 14: and even you know, clarify existing intellectual property law. And
Speaker 14: so there are many, many key recommendations that are proposing
Speaker 14: this report. But it's just a matter of how Congress
Speaker 14: is then transitions into translating that into legislation that gets
Speaker 14: signed into law.
Speaker 4: We'll see how it happens on the next administration. I'm
Speaker 4: a city. Thanks for breaking it down. Let's get back
Speaker 4: to Micron now schedule to report this fiscal first code
Speaker 4: results after the market close today.
Speaker 2: Remegs Inking joins.
Speaker 4: Us some more all about high bandwidth memory.
Speaker 15: That's right. Obviously, the biggest story in chips has been
Speaker 15: in video. Guess what in videos? And chips need a
Speaker 15: lot of memory to train those AI models. And really
Speaker 15: it's a case of how much can Skhi nix how
Speaker 15: much can Microns supply in video with and this has
Speaker 15: been a big story for them, a lot of high
Speaker 15: margin business coming their way. But on the flip side,
Speaker 15: the markets that there depend on, there's a lot of
Speaker 15: debate about how well they're doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, we're expecting about an eighty percent increase
Speaker 4: in revenues for example, we're up on the day.
Speaker 2: But it's been a turbulent time for Micron stock.
Speaker 4: Still it feels as though most analysts say buy it
Speaker 4: at the moment.
Speaker 2: Is it gonna be about the forecasting? What are the
Speaker 2: pitfalls here in?
Speaker 15: Yeah, No, that's exactly it. I mean people are kind
Speaker 15: of tentatively positive, and the concern there is that, look,
Speaker 15: still a lot of money that this company gets comes
Speaker 15: from the smartphone market, comes from the PC market, and
Speaker 15: guess what, they're not that great. They're still inventory around.
Speaker 15: So let's not get too carried away with this AI
Speaker 15: thing until it really shows that it can take over completely.
Speaker 4: But meanwhile, everyone's desperate to get totally in on stocks
Speaker 4: like Broadcom, even if they're just giving us total addressable markets.
Speaker 4: Do you think we will get a signal of what
Speaker 4: the market will be like for mi cron.
Speaker 15: I mean, they have been talking about this for a
Speaker 15: long time, and I'm sure we'll continue to bang that
Speaker 15: drum and talk about how this is a different opportunity
Speaker 15: for them once they're designed in, they're designed in, it's
Speaker 15: not the old commodity market. They'll give us all of that,
Speaker 15: I'm sure, and they're probably right about that particular area.
Speaker 15: The key is whether it's big enough to offset what's
Speaker 15: going on elsewhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just briefly, China an issue.
Speaker 15: China is always an issue. There's a concern there that
Speaker 15: the access to that market becomes an issue. And also
Speaker 15: local competitors given the competition between the two countries and
Speaker 15: the bands and this, you know, and all of the
Speaker 15: trade ward, that's clearly something that's on people's minds.
Speaker 4: And King if I'd be a busy man later, thanks
Speaker 4: so much stopping in ahead of that set of earnings
Speaker 4: later in the day.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: You do not want to forget to focus in on
Speaker 4: the FED in a minute, but also check out our podcast.
Speaker 4: You'll find it on the terminal as well as online
Speaker 4: on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart this is Bloomberg Technology.