1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Hi, it's West Kasova. We're taking a break today for 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: the holiday. Here's one of our favorite episodes that you 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: might have missed. And for an update on what's happening 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: with these farm protests, check out the link in the 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: show notes. We'll be back on Monday with a new 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Big Take. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great weekend. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: It's the Big Take from Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio. I'm 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: West Kasova. Today, farmers are protesting rules that order them 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: to slash emissions not from their tractors, from their cows. 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: Our insatiable appetite for meat, eggs, cheese means there are 11 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: billions of chickens, and pigs and cows the world over. 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: Animal agriculture is a leading contributor to greenhouse gas emissions 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: and pollutants like ammonia and nitrogen. In Europe, governments are 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: starting to crack down. They're demanding farms dramatically cut the 15 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: size of their herds to meet environmental goals that could 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: force thousands of farmers out of business. One place where 17 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: anger over this issue is spilled over is the Netherlands, 18 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: where political tensions are so high it threatens to overturn 19 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: the government so if you end up in a situation 20 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: that force will be necessary. It's quite possible that there 21 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: will be a big crisis within the Dutch government that 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: Gouldifan toplets to describe what's happening. Bloomberg reporter Didrich Bazil 23 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: joins me now from Amsterdam. Diedrich Bazil, thanks so much 24 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: for being here his thanks for having me. So you've 25 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: been covering this conflict between dairy farmers in the Netherlands 26 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: and the government. Can you just give us sort of 27 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: a lay of the land of exactly what's happening there, 28 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: If it's okay, I would like to start with asking 29 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: you a question. Actually, sure, the Netlands has about seventeen 30 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: million people. But I was wondering, do you know how 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: many chickens we have in this country? How many chickens? 32 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: You know, you're right away, I have no idea how 33 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: many chickens there are in the Netherlands. Now we have 34 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: one hundred million chickens in the Netherlands, and on top 35 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: of that we have eleven million picks and another four 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: million cows, and that makes Netlands the country and with 37 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: the highest density of farm animals in the whole of Europe, 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, that creates all kinds of problems, including the 39 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: nitrogen crisis we're discussing today. One risk is the amount 40 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: of nitrogen that is emitted. But another risk is what 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: we've seen with Corona. When a lot of people and 42 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: a lot of animals are together on the small piece 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: of land, chances are that diseases are gonna jump from 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: animals to humans. So we have this situation where nitrogen 45 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: other pollutants are building up. The government is trying to 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: meet climate pledges and looking to dairy farmers and other 47 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: farmers to help with that by ordering them to reduce 48 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: the emissions. Yeah. So what happened is this has been 49 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: an issue for a couple of years in the Netherlands, 50 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: but back in June, the government announced a target to 51 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: reduce their nitrogen emitants and the target was to reduce 52 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: it by fifty percent in twenty thirty. When they presented 53 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: this target, they also presented a map of the Netherlands 54 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: and that map included the nature areas in the country, 55 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: and we have several and surrounding those nature areas. Often 56 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: the nitrogen had to be diminished by up to ninety percent, 57 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: and that basically means that all farms that operate there 58 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: have to close down. So that map and that target 59 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: of fifty percent cause a lot of commotion in the country. 60 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: And since we have seen strikes from farmers for a 61 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: couple of months now, and they have been blocking the streets, 62 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: they have been going to the house of the minister 63 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: to protest, they're starting fires on the highway. That kind 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: of of well, you can see why farmers would be 65 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: so alarmed by this, because they're essentially saying we're going 66 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: to be putting a certain number of people out of 67 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: business who may have been farming for generations. Did they 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: prepare farmers at offer this or was this something that 69 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: was announced out of the blue. There are two sides 70 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: to this story, like always think, One side is that 71 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: these farmers, for years, and especially also the big companies 72 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: behind those farmers, they have been polluting Dutch in nature 73 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: and making money out of it. And the other side 74 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: of the story is that political parties that are still 75 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: in power today in the Netherlands have told those farmers 76 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: for years that if they scale up, if they become bigger, 77 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: and if they investigate in innovation, everything will be okay 78 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: and everything will be fine. And yeah, that's not the 79 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: way it is. The problem is just way more structural. 80 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: Politicians just haven't been brave enough to tell the honest 81 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: story to the farmers, and now they don't have a 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: choice anymore, and the farmers few betrayed. Can you describe 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: some of the protests that happened over the summer, because 84 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: some of them are quite large and pretty druma. Yeah. 85 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: So the thing is farmers they have tractors, so if 86 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: you have a tractor, you can do a lot of things. 87 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: They drove with the tractors to Parliament. They use him 88 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: to block the highway, they use him to go to 89 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: the house of the minister and straight away, when you 90 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: have a tractor, you basically have a weapon. It's difficult 91 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: for the police to do something about it when the 92 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: road is blocked with tractors. And they have been doing 93 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: this for the past months. Even caused the Minister of 94 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: Agriculture to step down. And we have a new now 95 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: new one since a couple of weeks, and we also 96 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: have a Minister of Nitrogen, the first one ever in 97 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: the history of the Netherlands, and I think the world, 98 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: to be honest, this is fascinating. A minister of nitrogen. 99 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: What does that person do? Yees? So the Netlands has 100 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: I think it's the first country in the world to 101 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: have a Minister of nitrogen. Her name is Chrissie on 102 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: the Ball and yeah, she basically is the Minister of 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: bad news because her only task is to make sure 104 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: that the target of fifty percent production by twenty thirty 105 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: that's going to happen. And that's a terrible, terrible mission, 106 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: I guess, because there's only bad news you can tell 107 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: farmers because they have to close down their farms, they 108 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: have to stop the business they have been running for 109 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: several generations. What is it that the farmers are demanding? 110 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: They see the government's solution as being pretty severe. What 111 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: is that they're coming back with in demanding or asking for? 112 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: So the challenge of the government is to live up 113 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: to their target and at the same time provide a 114 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: future for farming in the Netherlands. And that is a 115 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: big challenge because the only way to reach this target 116 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: is for farmers to close down. Not all, of course, 117 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: but a big portion will have to quit their business. 118 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: And these farmers are requesting basically either come with a 119 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: decent way to buy us out with a lot of money, 120 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: or give us other ways to continue our business what 121 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: we have been doing for generations, and give us a 122 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: roadmap what is allowed, what is possible. And that's also 123 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: something that has been lacking up to this moment. It's 124 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: unclear what farming is acceptable for the Netherlands within the 125 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: targos they want to reach basically, so they want they 126 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: want clarity. If these farms are forced to shut down, 127 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: if others have to cut their herds in half or 128 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: more in order to meet the requirements and somehow still 129 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: stay in business, where will the milk, the meat, the cheese, 130 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: everything else that those farms are now producing come from. 131 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: Because I guess the assumption is that the demand for 132 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: those products isn't going to drop. They'll just have to 133 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: come from someplace else. What farmers have been saying is, yeah, 134 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: we're feeding a Netherlands, so what are you doing to us? 135 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: That is true, but also not entirely true, because I 136 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: think about seventy percent of what is produced in the 137 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: Netherlands is for export, and Nelands is the second biggest 138 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 1: export or in the world when it comes to agricultural product. 139 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: If they will have to minimize their their output, then 140 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: someone else in the world as an opportunity to fill 141 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: the gap. Basically, what would that mean for the economy 142 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: of the Netherlands to lose those exports And a very 143 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: interesting question because the strange thing is that we're the 144 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: second biggest exporter of agriculture products in the world. But 145 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: there's some important context there because if you look at 146 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: how big part it is of the Dutch GDPs, only 147 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: one point four percent, Like, it's not nothing, but it's 148 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: also not very it's not also non major. One element 149 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: is important here is that those numbers of exporting products 150 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: are inflated a little bit because of what we call 151 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: the Rotterdam effects. In Rotterdam City in Netherlands, we have 152 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: the port of Rotodam, which is the biggest of Europe, 153 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of products that are produced in the 154 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: heartlands of Europe are shipped to the rest of the 155 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: world via Rotterdam and often those products end up on 156 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: the balance sheet of Dutch export. By the end, it's 157 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: it's not that big of a deal for the Dutch economy. 158 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: It will hurt, but I don't think that will be 159 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: the biggest problem. One interesting thing about the Netherlands is 160 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: how progressive A lot of the agriculture is there's you know, 161 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: in worms, fields of greenhouses where lettuce, tomatoes, other things 162 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: are grown. And yet we have on the other side 163 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: this traditional agriculture which is very polluting. Is there conflict 164 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: between those two different sort of visions of farming and 165 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: agriculture in the country. This is an augument of those 166 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: same farms and elands. They say, like Luke, we're the 167 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: most innovative farmers in the world. Why if you're going 168 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: to close down farms, why will you close on our farms? 169 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: And I think if there is a future for the 170 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Dutch agriculture sector, it lies in the innovation. We have 171 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: the Wakening University which is at the forefront of research 172 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to agriculture. So I think the nlance 173 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: will still be able to make a lot of money 174 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: with this innovation, but perhaps they shouldn't produce everything themselves 175 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: in their own country. So tensions are really high still 176 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: between farmers and the government. How do you see this 177 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: playing out? What is the solution? Obviously some politicians are 178 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: going to want to be responsive to farmers who vote, 179 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: and yet they have to balance against the requirements of 180 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: climate change. Where do you see this heading in June, 181 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: the target was presented of a fifty percent reduction by 182 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: twenty thirty, and only last week the government presented a 183 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: buyout plan. What does that mean? It means that as 184 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: a farmer you can say, high government, please buy my 185 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: farm in a way to reach the targets. And not 186 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: all details are known at the moment, but what it 187 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,239 Speaker 1: seems to be is that they're going to offer one 188 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty percent of the current market value of 189 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: their company or their lends. How are farmers responding to 190 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: the buyout plan? Are they signing up? Do you think 191 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: that many of them will take this deal? Mixed signals 192 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: from the farmers. Some are very happy. There's also quite 193 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: some farmers that already wanted to quit their business and 194 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: not just waiting for a good offer basically. But you 195 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: also have those big farms which are just making lots 196 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: of money producing their products, and those are also the 197 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: big polluters, and if they continue their business they can 198 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: make way more money than if they would sell it today. 199 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: I think those are the essential farms are not not 200 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: that keen to go along with the split. The hopes 201 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: of the government and the political party at the moment 202 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: is that this voluntary buy a plan will do the trick, 203 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: and if it doesn't, then you at some points have 204 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: to get to a place where you're going to use force, 205 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: and that is a bridge many political parties don't want 206 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: to cross at this moment. Dutch Prime Minister Margret did 207 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: say that it could happen at some point that you 208 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: need force. When you say for us, you mean going 209 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: in and actually shutting down the farms, that would be 210 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: a very extreme move. Yeah, that would be in a 211 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: very extreme move. But if you if you listen to 212 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: the specialists, it's quite likely because it's not the case 213 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: that if half of the farmers will quit that you 214 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: reach the targus. It's also specific farms that are close 215 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: to a very vulnerable nature reserves. Those farms have to 216 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: close down and if those farms decide not to, then 217 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: force will be necessary. And the Dutch government currently consists 218 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: of four parties, it's a coalition government, and at least 219 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: one party is very much opposed using force because many 220 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: of their voters are farmers. So if you end up 221 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: in a situation that force will be necessary, it's quite 222 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: possible that there will be a big crisis within the 223 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: Dutch government that could even topple it, and who knows 224 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: what will happen after that. It's a very sensitive topic 225 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: and it will stay difficult for quite some time. Dietrich, Brazil, 226 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here. Thanks West for having me. 227 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: Was a pleasant occasion. Yeah, it's not just the Netherlands 228 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: where this political and economic battle over agriculture is playing out. 229 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: More on Man when we return. The tensions we're seeing 230 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: in the Netherlands are also playing out in other countries 231 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: around the world. To talk about that, Agne Escada Susa 232 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: joins me from London. She is a food reporter and 233 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: also known affectionately as Bloomberg's foods are Eggie. Thanks for 234 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: being here, Thank you for having us, Aggy. When we 235 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: talk about the biggest pollutants, it's often oil or coal, 236 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: but as we just heard from Dietrich, the Netherlands is 237 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: zeroing in an agriculture pollutants. In your own reporting, you 238 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: describe how other countries in Europe and around the world 239 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: are also targeting agriculture. Why is this happening now? Farming 240 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: and agriculture is still relatively little understood driver of climate 241 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: change is more effort and more understanding. I think the 242 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: public opinion is changing. When it comes to impact of 243 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: farming on the environment, it's actually pretty big. Agriculture itself 244 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: accounts for a quarter of global greenhouse gas emissions. Growing 245 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: your food but then also transporting the food all the 246 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: way to retailers, that actually accounts for about a third 247 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: of global greenhouse gas emissions. So it's actually substantial. And 248 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: just looking at livestock, livestock is a major driver of 249 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: emissions of the lend, usage of water, consumption of so 250 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: many different aspects, and cleaning up agriculture cannot happen without 251 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: tackling the environmental footprint of livestock. And what exactly is 252 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: it about livestock that is so polluting? The environmental footprint 253 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: of livestock is so multidimensional. First and foremost, I think 254 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: the most important thing when it comes to livestock is 255 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: the fact that livestock emit methane. It's a really powerful gas, 256 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: and livestock is actually a major source of methane emissions. 257 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: This happens through a so called enteric fermentation. It basically 258 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: means that the digestive system of cattle of sheep causes 259 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: microbes inside stomachs of other animals to actually release methane. 260 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: They're gassy. They're gassy animals, they're gassy, they're gases, so 261 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: they burp out, they burp out methane. Their manure, their 262 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,359 Speaker 1: urine pollute soil. You know, it's a source of nitrogen oxide. 263 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: That's another polluting factor. And on top of it, they 264 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: eat a lot of crops, so you need to actually 265 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: use so much more land in order to grow a 266 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: crop for them. The management is not there yet. More 267 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: needs to be done in order to figure out the 268 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: way to store the manure but actually converted into biomass, 269 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: converted into energy. I wanted to ask you now about 270 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: the political pressure that is building in a lot of countries, 271 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: especially in Europe, when it comes to governments trying to 272 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: cut their greenhouse gas emissions and are now looking at 273 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: farmers to do that. What is happening is that after many, many, 274 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: many years of seeing a lot of focus on fossil fuels, 275 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: it seems like there is more attention right now on 276 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: farming in general. What we're seeing is that more governments 277 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: around the world are introducing our furthering policies that are 278 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: focused on agriculture and actually making agriculture most sustainable and 279 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: trying to address emissions from livestock. Certainly more should be done, 280 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: but there are signs that they are moving in that direction. 281 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: We've had so far, I think at least one hundred 282 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: and fifty countries signing up to the methane pledge. The 283 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: methane pledge was the major push at Glasgow at COP 284 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: twenty six. There was last year's CAP conference. Since then, 285 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: so many more countries have joined that pledge. So at 286 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: least one hundred fifty countries have pledged to cut methane 287 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: emissions by thirty percent by the end of the decade. 288 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: This is a very general pledge, so it includes all 289 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: sorts of sectors, and particularly it has been a focus 290 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: on oil and gas. There is an understanding that in 291 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: some countries agriculture will need to be tackled. There are 292 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: some countries where livestock emissions and agriculture emissions account for 293 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: a large share of the total country footprint. So for example, 294 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: take New Zealand. Half of New Zealand carbon emissions come 295 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: from agriculture. That is a very big chunk of emissions. 296 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: So what's going to happen is that countries will have 297 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: to determine how they're going to cut their methane emissions. 298 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: So if the countries that were agriculture is a huge 299 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: part of the problem, they will need to tackle it. 300 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: And we're all already seeing some of those big producers 301 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: trying to and introducing targets for farming. How have they 302 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: responded to these restrictions that the government is trying to impose. 303 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: So it depends on the country, But generally farmers are nervous. 304 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: In some instances they feel they are being singled out unfairly. 305 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes they can feel confused as to actually what's going 306 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: to happen. I think in several countries, like for example, 307 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: in New Zealand in the Netherlands, when it comes to 308 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: actually nitrogen emissions and nitrogen reduction plan, farmers know and 309 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: have been it's quite clear that farmers will need to 310 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: reduce their herd size and they feel that that will 311 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: lead to the loss of business, the loss of profitability. 312 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: They will have to change the way they've been doing things, 313 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: and they feel the change is coming. But it's also 314 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: you know that they're producing food. You have to put 315 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: yourself in the shoes of those farmers. They've been farmers 316 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: their entire lifetime. Maybe they grew up in a farming family. 317 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: You know, they've been farming for generations. Suddenly they need 318 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: to change this. Suddenly, a government policy, a government measure 319 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: tells them, well, it's time. You know, you're going to 320 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: have to cut back on your herds. You might actually 321 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: have to shut down your business, go and move to 322 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,719 Speaker 1: the city and do something else. In a way, it 323 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: feels like they're gonna have to be approoted, and it's 324 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: a huge confusion as well as to huge uncertainty, huge confusion, 325 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: feeling of the lack of appreciation for what they do. 326 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: They essentially feel under siege, under siege from a government, 327 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: undersiege from vegans suddenly telling everyone it less meat. It's 328 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: a lot to take on. At the same time, you know, 329 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: they're told to cut back on pesticides, cut back on fertilizers. 330 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: You're gonna have to be taxed more. So suddenly there's 331 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: just a lot to take on. The world is changing 332 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: at the same time, they're being affected by the consequences 333 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: by the climate change itself. We've had years of drought, 334 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: we've had extreme weather, and that's affecting their crops, is 335 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: affecting their livestock, and so they're in a way they're pummeled. 336 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: They're being struck from both sides, and they've been protesting 337 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: some of them. Is that right, I mean kind of 338 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: very dramatic protests to show politicians how they're feeling. Yes, 339 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: and twenty twenty two fields has been a year of 340 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: protest farmer protests, at least in Europe. What is quite 341 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: unique about twenty twenty two is, first and foremost, what 342 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: we so earlier this year is the fact that the 343 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: energy and fertilizer costs are on the rise. That's squeezing 344 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: farmer margins. At the same time, they don't feel they're 345 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: being paid enough for the food they produce. And then 346 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: it's the climate policies that are coming. As governments introduce them. 347 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: It feels like climb policies are becoming one more sticking 348 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: topic factor when it comes to the farmer discontent. It's 349 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: a relatively new thing and we expect to see more 350 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: of it. We see a lot of politicians sort of 351 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: jumping on this bandwagon against green policies in order to 352 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: curry favor with farmers. There are millions of farmers out 353 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: there and very often they're a strong electorate that politicians 354 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: have to count with them. They need to respond to 355 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: their needs because they know they may lose votes. They 356 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: also have in several countries they lobbing is strong. In 357 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: a way, you could argue that that may be something 358 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: that could put breaks on the introduction of climate policies 359 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: on time and at scale. And it feels like governments 360 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: are really weighing it carefully. The sentiment of farmers are 361 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: feeling actually has been to an extend captured by right 362 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: wing groups by a movement opposing vaccinations and COVID restrictions. 363 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: We even so former US President Donald Trump speaking out 364 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: on the issue of farmers and on protests, and he 365 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: did say that farmers in the Netherlands, of all places, 366 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: are courageously opposing the climate tyranny of the Dutch government. 367 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: We speak, farmers in the Netherlands, of all places, are 368 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: courageously opposing climate tyranny of the Dutch government. Can you 369 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: believe those We do see this argument being furthered by 370 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists, by extreme right as well, that climate policies 371 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: will lead to a reduction of food supplies, that it 372 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: may actually cause shortages, if not famine. You know, you 373 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: see farmers repeating that argument as well. It does appeal 374 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: to primordial fears in a way. I mean, we're all 375 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: concerned about food and people are struggling with food inflation, 376 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: with the cost of living crisis. To actually see that, wow, 377 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: you know, my food built is going to go up 378 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: even more if my government actually introduces climate policy and 379 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: we're going to produce less food and the prices are 380 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: going to go up. I mean that really appeals to 381 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: people's fears. We need to pay attention to the populist argument. 382 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: It's such an easy argument to make. You know, there's 383 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: a hashtag. There are social media hashtags out there. No farmers, 384 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: no food farmers are using that hashtag, but anti vaxers 385 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 1: are using that hashtag and we're seeing it. You know 386 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: from what I read as well in terms of their claims, 387 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: they're very, very simplistic, and they're just very it's so 388 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: much more complicated than that, but it's it's very catchy. 389 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: When we come back, why do you if anything can 390 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: be done to fix this mess? Egg. You've spelled out 391 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: how big a problem this is, and we've heard the 392 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: very dramatic example from the Netherlands of how deeply people 393 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: feel about this, and so that's all that raises the 394 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: question of what can be done about this? What is 395 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: the solution here? Tackling pollution from agriculture and making agriculture, farming, 396 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: and the food systems more sustainable is a multidimensional problem. 397 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: When it comes to nitrogen, better manure management, trying to 398 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: find ways of converting manure into sources of energy. When 399 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: we look at methane emissions, there are new solutions coming up. 400 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: For example, feed supplements that are supposed to reduce the 401 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: work of microbes responsible for those submission. In other words, 402 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: make them less gassy. Yes, make them less gassy. However, 403 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: these solutions are still at early stages and there's no 404 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: silver bullet for cutting those emissions altogether. It has to 405 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: be a holistic approach from an economic perspective. If these 406 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: regulations go into effect and dairy farmers have to cut 407 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: the size of their herds, that in itself will reduce emissions. 408 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: I guess what then happens is dairy products of all kinds, 409 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: the prices rise, and that decreases demand. Because really, aren't 410 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: we looking at a problem that people want this? People 411 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: want milk, they want cheese, they want meat, and as 412 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: long as there's a demand for it, people are going 413 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: to want to produce it, and then it becomes just 414 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: a matter of how much does it cost. Currently, we 415 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: still produce more food than we consume. What needs to 416 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: change is actually distribution of food, the fact that we 417 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: waste so much food. About a third of food produced 418 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: around the world is being wasted or lost at the 419 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: harvest level. So this is beyond livestock. But I think 420 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: it's a very important point. If we were to, in theory, 421 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: reduce food waste, we would end up getting more food. 422 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: So I think, you know, we could speculate on what 423 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: it will do to prices, but none of those climate 424 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: policies need to be kind of taken in isolation. There's 425 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: a variety of solutions. There's a variety of policies that 426 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: can be implemented, so reducing food waste would be one 427 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: of them. Coming up with alternative proteins, yes, we do 428 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: need to acknowledge, and you're absolutely right, people want to 429 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: eat that stuff. People like cheese. They love cheese, you know, 430 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: and they like their steak. So yes, there should be 431 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: a push towards healthier, more sustainable diets, encouraging people to 432 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: cut back on meat, especially in the developed world. But 433 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: at the same time, we need to come up with solutions, 434 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: come up with new alternative sources of protein, and those 435 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: are being developed right now. Precision fermentation is really capturing attention. 436 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: So producing cow free milk or cheese or protein, and 437 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: all these things are you kind of new and in development, 438 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: and there's a long process they get people to accept 439 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 1: them over time, and until then you have a lot 440 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: of these farmers who are pretty angry. I suppose it's 441 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: not that different from other industries. They change over time. 442 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: The question is how do you engage farmers, how do 443 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: you actually bring them on board in order to support 444 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: that transition in agriculture. New industries and new food sources 445 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: will require will still require agriculture, will still require farmers 446 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: to actually produce for them. I think the role of 447 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: governments is to policemakers is to figure out the ways 448 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: of bringing farmers on board so that they become part 449 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: of those solutions as well. So the process when it 450 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: comes to climate policies supporting new sources of food needs 451 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: to be inclusive of farmers. This is something that climate 452 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: policy makers need to be thinking about. One place we 453 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: having talked about is one of the world's biggest agriculture 454 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: biggest livestock market, which is the US also one of 455 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: the biggest emitters of agricultural pollutants, and yet we have 456 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: seeing these kinds of protests in the US. Yes, it's 457 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: it's quite interesting what is happening in the US. There 458 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: have been voices out of the US looking to Dutch 459 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: farmers as an example of why governments shouldn't get involved. 460 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: But at the same time, when we look at the 461 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: US climate policies as well and what they want to 462 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: do with livestock, that we haven't really seen much action 463 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: that the US isn't really cracking down on farmers in 464 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: a way that these other countries are. Yeah, that's right. 465 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: So we haven't seen a push to reduce, for example, 466 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: demand for meat. We haven't seen a push to slash 467 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: emissions from livestock the same way as we see in 468 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: other producing powerhouses. But at the same time, we do 469 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: have some positive examples of where farmers can get involved, 470 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: and one such example is actually regenerative agriculture. It's where 471 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: the US arguably is leading the way. And what is that. 472 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: What is regenerative agriculture, So it's basically involving farmers in 473 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: carbon trading, farmers can earn carbon credits essentially, so they 474 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: can actually earn money for their sustainable practices. So there's 475 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: incentives for farmers to do things better. So they're incentire 476 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: financial incentives for farmers to do things better. And that's 477 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: still an nascent market, but we are seeing more and 478 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: more companies trying to support those practices as well and 479 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: support the farmers who supply to them, and we're seeing 480 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: more farmers actually getting involved. It's an example of farmers 481 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: actually being on board the sustainability shift. Agnesca Desusa thanks 482 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. Thank you very much 483 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: for having me. You can read more of Agnesca desusas 484 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: and Detreg bas Seals reporting at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks 485 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: for listening to us here at The Big Take. It's 486 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: a daily podcast from Bloomberg in iHeartRadio. For more shows 487 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 488 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. 489 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 490 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is 491 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink Federica Romanello 492 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: is our producer. Our associate producer is Zeneb Sadiki. Raphael 493 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: m Seely is our engineer. Our original music was composed 494 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kosova. We'll be back on 495 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: Monday with another big take. Have a great weekend.