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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking the myth of the broke millennial

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Speaker 1: with doctor Gene Twiny.

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Speaker 2: That's right. We are joined today by doctor Jean Twagy.

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Speaker 2: She's a professor of psychology over at San Diego State University.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's a single expert who has researched

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Speaker 2: and tackled the topic of generational change as well as

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Speaker 2: doctor Twiny has written multiple books on the different defining

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Speaker 2: characteristics of specific generations. She did that in her book

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Speaker 2: I jen where she focused on gen z and then

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Speaker 2: her latest book, Generations. It spans from all the way

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Speaker 2: back from the silent generation all the way up to

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Speaker 2: to polars not solar bears, right, no, no, yeah, polar

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Speaker 2: Like that's the generation our kids are in. I learned.

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Speaker 2: And an article that she wrote in The Atlantic really

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Speaker 2: caught our eye because not only did she write about

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Speaker 2: our generation, millennials, but she spoke directly to the personal

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Speaker 2: finances of millennials. And that's what we're gonna mainly discuss today,

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Speaker 2: and not only the financial reality, but how it is

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Speaker 2: that we perceive and how we interpret that reality. And

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Speaker 2: so today's episode is gonna be a little bit different,

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Speaker 2: but I think we're going to have a very enlightening

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Speaker 2: conversation today, Doctor Gene Twainy, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me well, Doctor Twayny, you glad to

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Speaker 1: have you. Yeah, it's going to be super fascinating. Like

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Speaker 1: the way we think about generational differences is so interesting,

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Speaker 1: and I think you're going to clear through a lot

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Speaker 1: of that clutter. But the first question we ask anyone

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Speaker 1: who comes on the show is what do they like

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Speaker 1: to splore? John Matt and I we splore John Kraft beer.

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Speaker 1: We're drinking one now. But some people would say you

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Speaker 1: spent a lot on that, guys, but we're still saving

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Speaker 1: the investing for the future while we're doing that. So

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Speaker 1: is there something like that in your life?

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Speaker 3: I would say it is our family vacations to national parks,

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Speaker 3: all right. So we've got three kids, and when we

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Speaker 3: started our national park obsession, at least it's my obsession

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Speaker 3: that the kids and my husband are sort of along

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Speaker 3: for the ride, but they.

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Speaker 2: Usually like it.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, when we started it, and my youngest was

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Speaker 3: kind of just at the stage where she could go

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Speaker 3: on longer walks and I realized we had a very

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Speaker 3: narrow window between that and when our older kids wouldn't

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Speaker 3: want to have anything to do with us. And we

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Speaker 3: may have already jumped that shark. We're still going for

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Speaker 3: it and trying to make some family memories. And you

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Speaker 3: really can't go wrong with the National parks.

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Speaker 2: There are all same, No you can.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're on the West coast, which means you're a

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Speaker 1: lot closer to a bunch of the cool ones. And okay,

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Speaker 1: question for you. I've heard since COVID of course read

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Speaker 1: a lot about how the national parks are packed? Is

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Speaker 1: that true? How hard is it? How much harder have

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Speaker 1: your more difficult have your vacations become?

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Speaker 3: They are more crowded. There are a number of parks

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Speaker 3: that have instituted time entry, so you have to, you know,

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Speaker 3: pick a time when you're going to enter the park.

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Speaker 3: And with five people and several who like to sleep in,

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Speaker 3: that does make it a little bit more difficult for sure.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know when my kids are going

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Speaker 3: to get up, and I don't want to drag them

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Speaker 3: out of bed. But that's only really the most popular

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Speaker 3: parks we've found. There's some amazing places that are just

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Speaker 3: not as visited. I mean, it's just one example. There's

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Speaker 3: a park in Colorado called Black Canyon of the Gunnison,

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Speaker 3: which was amazing and gorgeous and not crowded and you

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Speaker 3: didn't need timed entry.

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Speaker 2: Very cool. Okay, one more recommendation then, because yeah, I've

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Speaker 2: been out to Yosemite a couple of times. I think

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Speaker 2: it might be my favorite place in the entire world.

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Speaker 2: But do you have maybe one more recommendation for me personally?

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Speaker 3: Well, unfortunately, this is a place you eat time entry. Now, however,

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Speaker 3: my favorite National Park has always been Arches.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it's pretty spectacular. Yeah for sure. I was lucky,

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Speaker 2: fortunate enough to run a half marathon one time through

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Speaker 2: It's called the Canyon Lands Half and it was right there.

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Speaker 3: And okay, yeah, yeah that's the other that's the other

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Speaker 3: National exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful so a great town too, right. But okay,

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Speaker 2: doctor Gene, let's talk about the different generations, because the

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Speaker 2: I would say, the generational stereotypes, they're pretty common, right,

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Speaker 2: Like folks have a preconceived idea as to how somebody

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Speaker 2: is going to act based on their age, but they're

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Speaker 2: not always one hundred percent accurate? How is it the

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Speaker 2: first got interested in generational differences and just parsing out

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Speaker 2: the statistics. Was it partly to dissect the validity of

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Speaker 2: those different stereotypes?

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Speaker 3: It was in a way. I mean I first got

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Speaker 3: into it as a college undergraduate. I was using a

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Speaker 3: questionnaire and saw that my fellow undergrads were scoring very

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Speaker 3: differently on it than the original sample from the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 3: And this was in the early nineties, but it made sense,

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Speaker 3: you know, over that twenty year period, there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of generational change. So that was one of my

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Speaker 3: first publications. That happened to be around the time too,

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Speaker 3: that there was a lot of media attention about gen X,

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Speaker 3: my own generation, and it was very striking to me

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Speaker 3: how much of it was guesswork and stereotypes and observations

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Speaker 3: and unsupported statements. They'd say things like, oh, gen xers

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Speaker 3: have low self esteem, Like, well, how do you know that?

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Speaker 3: Do you have a bunch Did you give the self

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Speaker 3: esteem scale to a bunch of people in Gen X

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Speaker 3: and then compare it to boomers at the same age,

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Speaker 3: And of course they didn't, But I did that and

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Speaker 3: found out the actually the opposite gen xers have higher

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Speaker 3: self esteem than boomers did at the same age.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Gen X is the self esteem I'm special generation, as

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Speaker 2: you've written about.

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Speaker 3: Well, millennials take it next level. Yeah, but it did start.

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Speaker 3: It started with boomers, grew to Gen X and then

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Speaker 3: and then arguably reached to peak with millennials.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what are the biggest influences on generational differences?

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Speaker 2: Then?

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Speaker 1: Like, what what is what is it that's impacting these

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Speaker 1: disparate outcomes for different age cohorts? So and even just

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Speaker 1: kind of what these these generations are. You talk about

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Speaker 1: how like Matt and I we are geriatric millennials, right,

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Speaker 1: So Matt and I are geriatric millennials, and that that

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Speaker 1: has its particular specific brand. I think it's it's even

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Speaker 1: different than the rest of the millennial cohort. But what's

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Speaker 1: impacting kind of how these generations are formed and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, the traditional theory of generations is that people experience

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Speaker 3: major events, things like recessions or wars or pandemics is

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Speaker 3: at a certain age and that's what causes generational differences.

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Speaker 3: And of course those have an impact, but not as

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Speaker 3: much as technology. So that's the I think origin of

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Speaker 3: so much cultural change and thus generational change, because that's

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Speaker 3: what really makes living now different compared to living two

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Speaker 3: hundred years ago or one hundred years ago, or fifty

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Speaker 3: years ago, or even twenty years ago. And when I

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Speaker 3: see technology, I'm not just talking about computers and smartphones.

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Speaker 3: I also mean things like faster transportation and better medical

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Speaker 3: care and air conditioning and labor saving device is like

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Speaker 3: washing machines. I got a little obsessed with washing machines

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Speaker 3: when I was writing this book because I just kept thinking,

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Speaker 3: you know, a woman of my age with three children,

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Speaker 3: how my life would be completely different if I had

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Speaker 3: lived two hundred years ago. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 3: for that is that back then, doing laundry took all day,

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Speaker 3: and you would do it over an open fire, usually

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Speaker 3: with a group of other women, and you'd use these

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Speaker 3: harsh soaps. And you know, now you just throw your

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Speaker 3: clothing machine and walk away. I mean, it's so different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite nice, even though it still takes I

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Speaker 2: saw a meme recently, and it speaks to my generation

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Speaker 2: and technology. I guess with memes specifically, but it's like,

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Speaker 2: it takes five minutes to gather your clothes, thirty minutes

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Speaker 2: to actually wash the clothes, but then seven days to

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Speaker 2: actually put the the truth fold. That's the rough start.

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Speaker 3: And I am waiting. I'm really really waiting for technology

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Speaker 3: to get to the point when we have a robot

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Speaker 3: that will take the clothes from the washer and put

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Speaker 3: them in the dryer.

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Speaker 2: That that would be the condo.

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Speaker 3: That'd be fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Well, didn't you You've also talked about how technology has

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Speaker 1: fueled the growth of individualism, too, right, and so that

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Speaker 1: and that's part of what kind of separates us as

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Speaker 1: as generations.

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Speaker 3: That's right, So you know technology has these downstream effects.

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Speaker 3: To one of those is individualism more focused on the

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Speaker 3: self and less on others. So that's one reason why

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Speaker 3: self esteem grew over the generations, because that was more encouraged.

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Speaker 3: And then the other downstream effect is what's called the

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Speaker 3: slow life strategy. That development has slowed it every every

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Speaker 3: stage of the life cycle. So kids are less independent,

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Speaker 3: teams are less likely to do things like have a

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Speaker 3: job or go out on dates or drink alcohol. Young

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Speaker 3: adults take longer to marry and have kids and settle

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Speaker 3: into careers, and middle aged people look and feel younger

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Speaker 3: than their parents and grandparents did at the same age.

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Speaker 3: So I think that that framework is so useful for

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Speaker 3: thinking about generational change because it has affected everyone and

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Speaker 3: it explains a lot with one theory. It also helps

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Speaker 3: a lot of grandparents who are wondering why their twenty

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Speaker 3: eight year old grandchildren are not married yet, that it's

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Speaker 3: not just millennials or Gen Z, that this is something

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Speaker 3: that's a broader trend in the whole culture.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, Okay, So I've got one quick follow up

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Speaker 2: before we before we stop talking about your generation Gen

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Speaker 2: xers and dive and dive into millennials, our generation. I'm

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Speaker 2: curious when it comes to technology and entertainment specifically too,

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Speaker 2: Like you write about the shift towards unabashed materialism, You

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Speaker 2: talk about the consumption that the shiny materialism in the eighties, right,

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Speaker 2: can you discuss that? And then I guess I'm curious,

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Speaker 2: like what kind of impact do you think that that

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Speaker 2: had on future future generations pursuit of money and success.

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Speaker 2: I guess basically, I'm curious if you think that that

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Speaker 2: entertainment culture sort of set the stage, if it planted

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Speaker 2: the seeds for maybe the model of consumption that we

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Speaker 2: are experiencing. Today, it could.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's interesting to look at the

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Speaker 3: generational trends and how young people think about money. So

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Speaker 3: there's a big survey of entering college students that ask

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Speaker 3: about important life goals. And it started back in the

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Speaker 3: late sixties when the college students were boomers, and there's

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Speaker 3: been a big decline from boomers to Gen xers, to

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Speaker 3: millennials to Gen z in saying that quote developing a

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Speaker 3: meaningful philosophy of life is important because that's like this

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Speaker 3: kind of squishy boomer thing. It's very abstract and very intrinsic.

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Speaker 3: And what's gone up steadily over that same time period

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Speaker 3: is the importance of being very well off financially. That

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Speaker 3: has continued to grow. It grew the most between boomers

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Speaker 3: and Gen x but then it kept going and it

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Speaker 3: pretty much every year it ticks up just a little

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Speaker 3: bit more to reach another all time high. And you know,

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Speaker 3: it makes some sense given the trends over that time period,

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Speaker 3: you know, starting in the early eighties, in particular, a

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Speaker 3: big growth in income inequality. So the messages you either

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Speaker 3: make it or you don't, So you better make it

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Speaker 3: because the question says very well off financially not just okay,

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Speaker 3: you know, but when you put it in the context

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Speaker 3: of income inequality, it makes some more sense. And then,

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Speaker 3: as you mentioned with gen X, gen X really kind

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Speaker 3: of pioneered these ideas of you know, as high school seniors,

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Speaker 3: for example, of saying, yeah, I want to have a boat,

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Speaker 3: I want to have a vacation house. And that has

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Speaker 3: backed off some for millennials and gen Z, but there

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Speaker 3: was that kind of just very materialistic time, especially late

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Speaker 3: eighties or early nineties that really shows up when you

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Speaker 3: look at the surveys of young people, and it was

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Speaker 3: Jeddaks who were the young people at that at that time.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, let's dive into our largest generation of listeners,

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Speaker 1: the generation that Matt and I barely fall into, or

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Speaker 1: at the upper upper end. But it feels like every

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Speaker 1: headline about millennials and finances are dour, right, And I

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Speaker 1: guess one of the biggest questions we have for you

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Speaker 1: is the millennial cohort. Are they actually doing worse than

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Speaker 1: previous generations? Everything out there in media would suggest that

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Speaker 1: millennials are, you know, between a rock and a hard place,

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Speaker 1: But you seem to kind of disagree a little bit

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 3: It's not just that I disagree, it's that the US

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Speaker 3: this data proves it wrong. Now it's more complex than that.

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Speaker 2: It's not a matter of opinion. It's fast.

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Speaker 3: Well sorry, that's kind of like, you know, my little

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Speaker 3: snarkiness when I go.

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Speaker 2: It's true. I appreciate you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's the thing. When people take issue

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Speaker 3: with it, I don't like take it up with the

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Speaker 3: Census Bureau, you know, or anyway. But and it is okay,

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Speaker 3: So let's let's talk about what the what the stats show.

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Speaker 3: So median household incomes for younger populations, this is going

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Speaker 3: to be those who are now millennials, so we're what

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Speaker 3: we're what we're talking here is look at two groups

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Speaker 3: twenty five to thirty four year olds, thirty five to

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Speaker 3: forty four year old. So I have the graph in

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Speaker 3: front of me right now. I've got it updated to

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two because the Census released that a couple

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Speaker 3: of months ago, and median incomes and those groups are

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Speaker 3: at all time highs. And yes that is adjusted for inflation.

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Speaker 2: So this is so.

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Speaker 3: Contrary to what you read on social media and in

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Speaker 3: news articles that when that Atlantic article came out with

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Speaker 3: this graph based on the census data. People who are online,

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Speaker 3: who of course didn't read the actual article automatically because

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Speaker 3: that's how it goes automatically, assumed that it could not

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Speaker 3: possibly be corrected for inflation. So their theory was that

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Speaker 3: the Atlantic, with all of their fact checking, publish this

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Speaker 3: without a correction for inflation, and of course that's not

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Speaker 3: the case. It is adjusted for inflation. And then people

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Speaker 3: started arguing about, you know, whether the inflation adjustment was correct,

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Speaker 3: and to that it's taken up with the Bureau of

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Speaker 3: Labor Statistics. So it's true, you know, you could make

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Speaker 3: arguments about how it's adjusted and so on. But media

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Speaker 3: incomes are at all time highs Now, why is that

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Speaker 3: not necessarily the best thing in the world? For some

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Speaker 3: interesting reasons. For one thing, almost all of those income

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Speaker 3: gains have been for women, and that seems like it's

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Speaker 3: great news, and it is. It also, though, means that

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Speaker 3: then when a heterosexual couple wants to keep both of

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Speaker 3: those high incomes that they might have, they have to

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Speaker 3: pay for childcare exactly. So that's one definite reality that

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Speaker 3: has to be acknowledged in these stats. The other one

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Speaker 3: is almost all those gains have been for college educated

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Speaker 3: people and there that's actually one of the reasons why

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Speaker 3: the incomes are so high for millennials is because more

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Speaker 3: millennials got a college education than any previous generation. Even

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Speaker 3: though those who didn't get a college education are not

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Speaker 3: doing as well, their incomes have actually gone down slightly.

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Speaker 3: There's been gains for those with college incomes and so

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Speaker 3: many more have college education.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we definitely want to ask you some follow

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Speaker 2: up questions about college about some of these different changes

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Speaker 2: that in particular millennials have experience. But like regarding what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about here, just as general attitude towards the

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Speaker 2: way that millennials perceive their finances, the commenters, non article

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Speaker 2: reader people know exactly like like the perception it kind

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Speaker 2: of feels reality to a certain extent, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: almost as if there's like a reality distortion field that

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Speaker 2: you know, has millennials feeling worse about their actual situation.

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Speaker 2: And so can you speak to that. Why do millennials

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Speaker 2: feel poor than they actually are?

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Speaker 3: And there's a number of reasons. I think one thing

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Speaker 3: is that early on there were there was, you know,

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Speaker 3: actual data showing that millennials weren't doing as well so

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Speaker 3: the Federal Reserve of Saint Louis, you know, put out

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Speaker 3: a study that got all kinds of press and twenty

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Speaker 3: fifteen maybe saying oh, millennials might not ever catch up

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Speaker 3: and so on, and that you know, got a lot

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Speaker 3: of attention, and I think it kind of put people

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Speaker 3: in that mindset. Of course, then the Saint Louis FED

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Speaker 3: updated that later on and with the most most recent data,

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Speaker 3: turns outllennials are neck and neck with Gen X and

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Speaker 3: on track to catch up with boomers in terms of

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Speaker 3: their wealth building. So even with college loans and all

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Speaker 3: that taken into account, millennials are still doing pretty well,

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Speaker 3: you know, with with wealth building. But so I think

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Speaker 3: some of it is that the perception got stuck at

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Speaker 3: that previous point where recovery from the Great Recession was

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Speaker 3: taking a long time, particularly for younger people. I think

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Speaker 3: some of it is what I mentioned, that the income

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Speaker 3: gains have not been even across all groups. I think

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Speaker 3: another big part of it is simply that negative news cells.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whether that's the report.

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Speaker 3: Saint Louis FED being, you know, the one that was

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Speaker 3: more negative versus more positive, or just the way people

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Speaker 3: interact online. I mean nobody goes on Twitter and says

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Speaker 3: I'm doing really well and so is my generation, and

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Speaker 3: we rock like it just doesn't really happen. It's much

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Speaker 3: more the focus of you know, everything is terrible. That's

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Speaker 3: what it's likes and clicks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the medium matters. And again people are just knee

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Speaker 1: jerk like, oh no, that can't be true because that's

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Speaker 1: good news, and good news can't be real, not in

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Speaker 1: today's environment. Well, and you mentioned the Great Recession. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel like the Great Recession and kind of the

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Speaker 1: ensuing financial haboc had something to do with this this

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Speaker 1: pessimistic view. I know it impacted obviously a lot of

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Speaker 1: people negatively, a lot of millennials. They saw their parents

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Speaker 1: struggle during that time period, did that kind of like

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Speaker 1: I guess, sway how they thought about the US economy.

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Speaker 3: It certainly could be a case. I think what is

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Speaker 3: odd though, is if that had such a big effect,

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Speaker 3: why didn't the huge comeback of the economy after the

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Speaker 3: Great Recession have an equal effect, Because it doesn't seem

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Speaker 3: to have.

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Speaker 1: That's actually a really good point, and again, we just

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Speaker 1: have a more of an ability to digest bad news.

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Speaker 1: It's the focus on the bad news. I supposeessimists sound smarter.

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Speaker 1: The optimist sound like don Quixote. Whatever. Right, But okay,

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Speaker 1: we've got more questions to get to with Eugene. We

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Speaker 1: want to we want to dive down specifically into a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different aspects of millennial finances and how they're

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Speaker 1: impacted these days. Well, we'll get to some more question

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Speaker 1: with doctor gen Twangy right after this.

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Speaker 2: Right, we are back from the break with doctor Gene Twingy,

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Speaker 2: and we you know, we basically we set the stage

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Speaker 2: as to perhaps why it is that millennials in particular

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Speaker 2: view their circumstances as not quite as great. Things aren't

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Speaker 2: going as great as maybe they envisioned their parents histories

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Speaker 2: in past. Part of that, I'm sure some of it

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Speaker 2: has to do with just like everything looks better in retrospect, right,

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Speaker 2: like you remember all the positives, and even if you're

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Speaker 2: talking to your parents, I think they're oftentimes recounting all

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Speaker 2: the great things that they're able to do, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to being able to kind of filter out some of

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Speaker 2: those negative aspects of life. We live in an era

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Speaker 2: of nostalgia. Yes, yeah, it's funny because on a personal level,

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Speaker 2: nostalgia reigns supreme, But when it comes to news like

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Speaker 2: we were talking about before, we are immediately drawn towards the,

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Speaker 2: I guess more than negative side of things. But doctor Jeene,

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Speaker 2: what are some of the biggest differences between the financial

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Speaker 2: obstacles that our parents had to deal with and then

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Speaker 2: the ones that folks in their twenties and thirties have

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Speaker 2: to deal with now? And I'll say in forties as well,

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Speaker 2: because millennials are now in their early forties. Homes they're

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Speaker 2: vastly more expensive these days, it seems. And so where's

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Speaker 2: the distinction between some of those facts versus the narrative

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Speaker 2: that has sprung up.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a mix here of things where

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Speaker 3: the narrative hits on some truth and then also where

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Speaker 3: it maybe doesn't come as close to what the stats

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Speaker 3: are telling us. So there's definite truth in college loans,

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Speaker 3: you know, being a big burden, but that's also qualified

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Speaker 3: by the fact that, yes, you might have those loans,

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Speaker 3: but you're going to be making a lot more money

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Speaker 3: over your lifetime than if you didn't go to college,

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Speaker 3: because in most cases that loan is going to pay

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Speaker 3: off in terms of more come out. Always unfortunately, but

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Speaker 3: usually it will. Then the other truth is what we

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Speaker 3: mentioned about about childcare, that women's incomes have just grown

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Speaker 3: so much, and so for families to keep up their earnings,

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Speaker 3: then we have to find somebody to take care of

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Speaker 3: the kids. And then that's you know, childcare costs are

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Speaker 3: just astronomicals. So that's definitely a concern. Where I think

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Speaker 3: the narrative has not been as accurate is in terms

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Speaker 3: of housing. So there's a couple of really interesting stats.

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Speaker 3: So one is that at least as of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: the home ownership rate for millennials was virtually identical to

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Speaker 3: Gen X and boomers at the same age. It lagged

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Speaker 3: by two percentage points, and that's it. So it was

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Speaker 3: about fifty among twenty five to thirty nine year olds

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Speaker 3: for Gen xers and boomers, now about forty eight for millennials.

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Speaker 3: Really not that different, you know, especially considering that more

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Speaker 3: millennials went to college and thus you know, put off

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Speaker 3: their earning years for longer. So that piece isn't as accurate.

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Speaker 3: The other thing, that's that's you have to keep in

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Speaker 3: mind about housing prices. There's a couple of things. So first,

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Speaker 3: so your group, you know, called elderly millennials. You could

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Speaker 3: say you're not elderly millennials or geriatric millennials. Instead, you

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Speaker 3: are the group of millennials that potentially, if you bought

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Speaker 3: a house, you're the housing lucky millennials. And I know

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Speaker 3: nobody sees it that way, but I have in front

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Speaker 3: of me a graph of the share of household income

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Speaker 3: that goes to housing over time, and that was actually

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Speaker 3: at all time lows since you know, tracing from nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy five to the present, in the twenty tents, and

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Speaker 3: that's when a lot of millennials born in the eighties

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Speaker 3: bought their houses. And you can see that in housing

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Speaker 3: prices too, because you know, there's huge drop the you know,

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Speaker 3: that horrible drop in housing prices for anybody who bought

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Speaker 3: before housing crashed in two thousand and eight. A lot

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Speaker 3: of those folks were Gen X and they had to

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Speaker 3: wait ten years for their house to be worth what

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Speaker 3: they paid for it. But then if you were lucky

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Speaker 3: enough to buy a house in their early twenty tens,

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Speaker 3: the gains that you saw, especially post twenty twenty were incredible.

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Speaker 3: Where there is truth, though, is sense about twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 3: You know, twenty twenty two when interest rates started going

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Speaker 3: way up. So the folks who have not bought into

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Speaker 3: the market yet, so that a lot of that, you know,

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Speaker 3: on average, is going to be younger millennials in gen Z.

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Speaker 3: They're in a very difficult position because housing prices are

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Speaker 3: still high and interest rates are so much higher. Because

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Speaker 3: that's the piece that's often left out of the conversation

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Speaker 3: in terms of housing prices going up. Well, they can say, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know what boomers bought this house for, you know,

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Speaker 3: seventy thousand dollars in nineteen eighty two. Well, the interest

434
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: rate in nineteen eighty two to seventeen percent for a

435
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: mint hunch.

436
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 1: Well, and houses are a whole lot different now too.

437
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: We're kind of comparing apples and oranges because the size

438
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: of homes has grown a lot. And yes, of course

439
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: the price of homes has skyrocketed, especially over the past

440
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: or the cost to buy a home with rising prices

441
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: and interest rates has gone up quite a bit. But

442
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: you're right, we're still like talking about different things because

443
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: the advertise of a home when of that seventy thousand

444
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: dollars home was a whole lot smaller back then too.

445
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because if you look at the housing the sorry,

446
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: the mortgage payment, it's actually pretty similar until just about

447
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: a year and a half or two years ago. That's

448
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: when things really started to get out of whack because yeah,

449
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 3: prices went way up, but interest rates had been so

450
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: low for so long that the mortgage payment actually wasn't

451
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: tremendously different. Now the down payment, that's a whole other story. Then,

452
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: of course that is going to be more of an issue.

453
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 3: But what I have heard, and I'd love to see

454
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: better data on this, is a lot of people say

455
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: that their parents helped them out with it. So there's

456
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: a well transfer from boomers to millennials going on with

457
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 3: down payments for houses.

458
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: It's almost not fair to say to draw these lines

459
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: like we have when it comes to some of the

460
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: different generations and say that, oh, generally speaking, millennials are

461
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: right on track when it comes to home ownership, because

462
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 2: like you said, it really does have so much to

463
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: do with where it is that you fall within that cohort.

464
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: Because so like Joel and I, we were those older geriatric,

465
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: lucky millennials, or I like to affectionately call us, what

466
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: is it, the Oregon Trail right right there on the

467
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: cusp between Gen X and actual millennials. But we were

468
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: able to purchase homes while things were at all time

469
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: Not only were housing prices at all time lows, but

470
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: interest rates were crazy low. And I remember talking to

471
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: my wife after we purchased our first home back in nine, thinking, man,

472
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 2: we've got friends that are just a couple years older

473
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: than us, and they are in a much more difficult situation.

474
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: And it's honestly just by by luck of the draw

475
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: that they happened to have their act together. You know,

476
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: if in some respects they were ahead of the ball, right,

477
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: they were only two years older than us, but in

478
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 2: some respects they were looking it seemed like that they

479
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: were five years older than us, because they were thinking

480
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 2: about buying a home even earlier. But because of that,

481
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: they bought close to the peak, and like you said,

482
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: saw there, it took them nearly a decade in order

483
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: to see those values recover exactly.

484
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: And you just don't see that discussed. I mean, it's

485
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 3: the just the millennials and the never own houses narrative

486
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 3: that seemed to take up, you know, all all of

487
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: the space and that dynamic, which is pretty easy to

488
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: document when you look at housing prices that it was

489
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: actually Gen X who got screwed the most that you

490
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: never hear you never hear about that.

491
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So in your opinion, doctor Toynie, are there any

492
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: economic headwinds that face kind of millennial in particular more

493
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: so than other generational cohorts or is there any like

494
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: the student loan thing even right like that is feels

495
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: very specific to the millennial generation, but like you said,

496
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: their earnings are also more than making up kind of

497
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: for the student loan debt they've taken on. But are

498
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: there any economic headwinds that are just like specifically millennial

499
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: related and they get coverage and it's spot on.

500
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just haven't seen a whole lot

501
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 3: that has been spot on. There's been so much out

502
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: there that just has been you know, so off what

503
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 3: the what the stats actually show. It's it's hard to pinpoint.

504
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: I mean, did you have a particular thing in mind?

505
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: No, I guess that's my question because it feels like

506
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: from everything I've read from your perspective, and well not

507
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: even your perspective, like you said, from the facts, that

508
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: on the ground that like there's there are all these

509
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: narratives that are spun and yet so little of it

510
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: feels based in reality. But it's also dominated the psychology

511
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: of the average millennial, feeling like the deck is kind

512
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: of stacked against stacked against us from an economic perspective,

513
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: from an earning's perspective, from student loan debt, and oh

514
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: my goodness, well, I think I feel like that psychological

515
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: weight has created responses like delaying marriage, delaying having kids,

516
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But it's so interesting because it

517
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: feels more psychological than economic reality.

518
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 3: It is, but there's you know, there's other elements in

519
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 3: there too, because it's not it's really not the economics

520
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: that are pushing people to get married later and have

521
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 3: children later. It's because that trend has been going on

522
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: in a fairly linear way, not a cyclical way like

523
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: the economy, in a linear way. Since the sixties. The

524
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: average age of marriage has been going up, the average

525
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: age you're having children has been going up, and that's

526
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: due to this little life strategy. And it's because we

527
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: live longer. I mean, it's for a good reason. Right now,

528
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: people take longer at every stage because we live longer.

529
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: I think the difficulty is you run up against biology

530
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: that female fertility, or male fertility for that matter. It

531
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: just hasn't changed yet. We're, you know, taking more years

532
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: to get educated and then putting off getting married and

533
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: having kids. And sometimes that can collide with the facts

534
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: of biology.

535
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: Sure, and you might, with medical advances scrape another ten years.

536
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: Not yet.

537
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: Oh really?

538
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I guess.

539
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: I'm taking up fertility medications and different things that.

540
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: It doesn't help with age.

541
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay.

542
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. In my other life, I actually wrote a book

543
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: called The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant. It's my

544
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: one book that wasn't based on my own research, but

545
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 3: it was. I was inspired to write it kind of

546
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: for similar reasons like what we're talking about today. The

547
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: stuff that I read about fertility wasn't based in the

548
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: best research, and there it was kind of a good

549
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: news bad news story when you did look at the

550
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 3: best research. The good news was the whole idea of like,

551
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: you're not going to ever have kids after thirty five

552
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: turned on not to be true at all. That there's

553
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: more encouraging statistics on that. However, there is a deadline

554
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: somewhere between forty and forty five for women. You're you're

555
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: done and IVF and fertility drugs cannot overcome that.

556
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: Okay, wow, So what we're highlighting here though, are just

557
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: the just massive changes to how it is that millennials

558
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: are living. There's living their lives and so do you

559
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: think these changing factors right, like, so these external or

560
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 2: I guess not external? Like these these are markers that

561
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: oftentimes they're different milestones that we can tend to measure

562
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: our lives by. Do you think that these emphasis on

563
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: these things like getting married, like having kids? Do you

564
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: think that some of the external factors that we're experiencing

565
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: in the economy are legit reasons that millennials are doing

566
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: things differently or do you feel that they're more basically

567
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: like excuses and millennials, I think excuses. Yeah. So do

568
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: you think they simply just have different priorities? Do you

569
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: think they millennials just have different life goals than previous generations.

570
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that that's something that it's not

571
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: necessarily unique to millennials. I think it's something that has

572
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: been building since the boomers, and I think a lot

573
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: of it is individualism, more of a focus on the self,

574
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: less of a focus on social rules and the society

575
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: much just nobody does anything for duty anymore. Now I'm

576
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: not saying that's bad. That's probably good in a lot

577
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: of ways, but I think that does bias people away

578
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: from having children. Although I will say this, there's a

579
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: big survey that I work with a lot of high

580
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: school seniors and it goes back to nineteen seventy six

581
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: and there's a bunch of questions on there about how

582
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: many children do you want to have and even if

583
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: things were ideal, would you want to have children. Millennials

584
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: said they wanted to have children just as much as

585
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: previous generations when they were eighteen, and so it's interesting

586
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: that changed later. Where you see the change among eighteen

587
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: year olds is in the transition from Millennials to Gen Z.

588
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: Then it starts to go down. And so what that

589
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: tells me is the birth rates never coming back up

590
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: because millennials at eighteen said I want to have kids

591
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 3: just as much as previous generations. But we know what

592
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: happened with the birth rate. It went way down as

593
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 3: Millennials transferred, he became the generation of child bearing age,

594
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: and then as that baton has passed to Gen Z,

595
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: they are not even saying they want to have kids.

596
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 3: When they're eighteen.

597
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, as like societal wealth has grown, a

598
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: lot of people predicted that it would lead to more procreation,

599
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: more kids, but the exact opposite has happened, and we've

600
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: leaned more into travel and experiences and stuff like that

601
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: with a lot of the excess income that we've got

602
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: with too high earning adults potentially in the same house, right,

603
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: that's right, that allows for a.

604
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: Lot more than that.

605
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: I guess we were just talking about fertility and talked

606
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: about declining birth rates. How is that going to impact

607
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 1: future generations, like from an economic perspective, because yeah, it

608
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: does seem like it's going to inhibit the US economy

609
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: and potentially constrain finances in the future.

610
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I'm glad you asked about that, because mean that

611
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: that decline in the birth rate has just really wide

612
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 3: ranging implications and I think we don't even realize all

613
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: of them yet. We can look to a country like

614
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: Japan that's had a declining birth rate for longer than

615
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: we have, and there's just massive problems. I mean, there's

616
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: all kinds of things that that that are going to happen.

617
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: I mean, just to mention too, you know, you got

618
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: to wonder if Social Security is going to be able

619
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: to survive, there's not going to be as many younger

620
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: workers because that's based on there being a certain number

621
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: of younger workers to support the retired people. Because it's

622
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: a Ponzi scheme. Really, you know, it's not in real

623
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's not in real time, so you know,

624
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: it's not that that stuff that comes out of your

625
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: paycheck is exactly what you get later. You end up

626
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: getting more because of inflation and other factors. So you

627
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 3: need more young workers to support the older ones. And

628
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: that's just not going to be the case. Plus, I

629
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: mean there's just issue around elder care. Are there going

630
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: to be enough younger people to take care of older people,

631
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: especially as lifespans continue to Lengthen, I.

632
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: Mean japan is I feel like they've created robots and

633
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: stuff right to help out in these nursing nursing centers

634
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: because that's the future.

635
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it really really might be. Yeah, Well, doctor Geen,

636
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: We've got more questions to get to. We've kind of

637
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: picked apart millennials, but we're going to talk about I

638
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: guess some of the other generations as well, talk about boomers.

639
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: We'll get to all that right after.

640
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 1: This, all right, we'll back we're still talking with doctor

641
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: gen Twangy. We're talking about broke millennials or wait, actually

642
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: maybe not. Maybe millennials are actually doing better than they thought,

643
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: which is which is good news, and hopefully that creates

644
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: like some psychological resolve to to not just lean into

645
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: that doomerism and see the optimism. Right, and and there's

646
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: still I think a whole lot of potential for the

647
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: millennial generation. But doctor Chie, we want to talk about

648
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: the baby boomer generation. Right, Like the folks who are

649
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: reaching traditional retirement age, they seem to be sticking it

650
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: out in the workforce a little bit longer. How's that

651
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: impacting the economy right now? People remaining in the workforce

652
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: into late sixties, early mid late seventies too.

653
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So is that a way to combat the fact

654
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: that there are fewer younger generations paying into something like

655
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 2: social Security, the fact that there are old signers yeah

656
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: who are working.

657
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that is going to have you know,

658
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: has already had a bunch a bunch of impacts. So

659
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 3: there's both good and bad impacts of that. So one

660
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: clear good thing is then yeah, we don't have as

661
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: much of a worker shortage. There's you know, people are

662
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: working for longer because they're living longer, they're healthier for longer.

663
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: The downside of that we've seen in the housing supply

664
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: because boomers are not selling their houses it's seventy like

665
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,240
Speaker 3: previous generations might have. They're often staying in those hows

666
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 3: until they're much older, so there's kind of a bottleneck

667
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 3: in the housing supply. Also kind of negative news, a

668
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: lot of boomers are working longer because they have to.

669
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 3: They just don't have enough saved up for retirement. And

670
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 3: I think that, combined with a lot of other statistics,

671
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: really go against the again popular narrative that boomers are

672
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: all rich and doing really well, when in fact there

673
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 3: is a lot there are a lot of boomers who

674
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: are not doing well, particularly those who did not get

675
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: a college education. Their incomes have really fallen behind. And

676
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: a couple of economists got a lot of attention a

677
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 3: few years ago for their paper showing that death rates

678
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: for those who were in middle aged, which was boomers

679
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 3: at the time, had been declining for decades and then

680
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: started to go up, particularly for those who did not

681
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: have a college education. And I found a similar thing

682
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: in my book with Depression, that there used to be

683
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: very little difference in depression rates in middle age between

684
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 3: people with them without a college education, and then that

685
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 3: really diverged starting with the Boomers, with those without a

686
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 3: college education became much more likely to be depressed.

687
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: That is so fascinating, and I feel like at different

688
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: points in this conversation maybe we haven't like drilled down

689
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: deep on it yet though, but college education, Matt and

690
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: I feel like we're both college graduates. Well we've kind

691
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: of started in some ways to sour a little bit

692
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: as we see the prices rise of college. But I

693
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: don't know, in the past like three months, I've started

694
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: to kind of do a double take on that because

695
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: and the American public is kind of with us on that.

696
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: Fifty six percent of people say right now that a

697
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: college degree doesn't make sense, that it's not as valuable

698
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: as it used to be. But it sounds like they're wrong.

699
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: Right in all the talk of student loan debt and

700
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: how impossible it is, what an impossible hurdle it is

701
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: to overcome, is setting people up to believe college is

702
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: the wrong path. But from everything you're saying, it sounds

703
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: like one of the most definitive things that's going to

704
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: put you on the trajectory to have a successful financial future.

705
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, at least on average. Of course, there's exceptions.

706
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: You know, if you're someone who really wants to go

707
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: into construction, you can absolutely do extremely well. You know,

708
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 3: as a general contractor say not everybody has to necessarily

709
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 3: get a college education. But if you're looking at the

710
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: overall average trajectory, it's going to make a big difference.

711
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: You know, for your average person who you know, the

712
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 3: choices maybe you know, working at a kind of regular

713
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: corporate job, that college degree is going to make a

714
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: huge difference in your income over time.

715
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, so let's go from from boomers to zoomers,

716
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: which doesn't seem like that's taken quite as well as

717
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: just gen Z.

718
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: I kind of like zoomer.

719
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 2: I like personally I like zoomers as well. I feel

720
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: like fewer folks are you using that term. But earlier

721
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: so you mentioned like that slow life strategy, that dynamic,

722
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 2: that pattern, and as we've witnessed that when it comes

723
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: to millennials, and basically it's a slow start, right, and

724
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: so it's not there's no surprise that Oh yeah, net

725
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: worth of millennials as they're entering the workforce, it's lower

726
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: than prior generations because they've put off actually generating income

727
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: because they've been they have been in college. Do you

728
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 2: do you foresee uh, that same pattern that that slow

729
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: life strategy. Do you do you foresee that continuing with

730
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: future generations with with say gen Z, Is that something

731
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: that you think is going to continue?

732
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: It sure looks that way. I mean, okay, just you know,

733
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 3: to look at gen Z says teens. They have completely

734
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: next leveled those trends in terms of teens being less

735
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: likely to adult things like get a driver's license, or

736
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 3: have a job in high school, or go out on

737
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 3: dates or drink alcohol. All of those have just kept

738
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 3: continued to decline in that transition between millennials and gen

739
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: Z being the teenagers, and the stats on say marriage,

740
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 3: you know that at least by my calculations, the oldest

741
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: gen Z is now twenty eight, So we're starting to

742
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: see that transition safe for younger people getting married, and

743
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 3: that median age at first marriage continues to go up.

744
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: So it sure looks like gen Z is going to

745
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: continue that slow life strategy trend.

746
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 2: Yes, I guess the reason I'm pointing that out is

747
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 2: because it seems that this is something that we can

748
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: keep in mind as we continue to process the information

749
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: around us, Right like, as we see headlines, as we

750
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: see more headlines start to focus on not only we're

751
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: millennials totally behind, and then they don't go and correct

752
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 2: the story, where in reality millennials are doing just fine.

753
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: Now they're shifting the attention perhaps to zoomers, to Gen

754
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: z as well, because not only are they doing worse

755
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: than Gen xers, oh, they're actually doing worse than than millennials.

756
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 2: They're even more behind. But perhaps this is a pattern

757
00:40:58,480 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: that we're going to continue to see.

758
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm wondering too, doctor Jane, Like the talked

759
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: about the slow life strategy, is there ever like a

760
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: boomerang or a whiplash effect that generations have where they

761
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: kind of, instead of going further down into some of

762
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: the trends that the previous generation succumb to, where they're

763
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: just like no way and in fact don't need the

764
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: new iPhone, I'm going back to a flip phone. It

765
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 1: seems like there's a small subset of a small cohort

766
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: of people in like gen Z or something that are

767
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: doing that. But does that ever catch on and become

768
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: like a phenomena in a generation that just kind of

769
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: bucks the trend and moves headlong in a different direction.

770
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: Only very rarely. So most of the things that we're

771
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: talking about like this, the slow life strategy just seems

772
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 3: to continue. It just continues going in the same direction.

773
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: Individualism is another example. Gen Z certainly, you know, continues

774
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: a lot of those trends toward individualism. You know, technological change, Yeah,

775
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: there might be a small cohort or the flip phone,

776
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: but that's going to be pretty rare. Where the one

777
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 3: big exception is that in the transition between millennials and

778
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: gen Z, there was a big decline in life satisfaction, happiness,

779
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 3: self esteem, and a big increase in depression and anxiety.

780
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: So that seems to be mostly due to our relationship

781
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: with technology that for a lot of millennials just based

782
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: on the technology they grew up with. Your smartphones were

783
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: cool and fun, and social media, you know, was just

784
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 3: kind of a way to connect with people. But if

785
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 3: you didn't want to do it, you didn't have to,

786
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 3: and it was had a different character there wasn't as

787
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 3: much competition for for likes and followers, and it wasn't

788
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 3: as negative and for gen Z it's unfortunately been all

789
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 3: of those things. You know, it's moved from optional to

790
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 3: virtually mandatory. There's a lot of pressure it you know,

791
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: tends to tilt toward towards the negative. And also, and

792
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 3: this is effective millennials as well, but even more with

793
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 3: gen Z spending less time with their friends face to face.

794
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like social media became the place to

795
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: interact as opposed to a method.

796
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: To like it didn't facilitate, yes, irl interactions and in

797
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: fact replaced it. And so this this isn't even money related,

798
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: doctor Jene, But like, what's your prescription here? Like is

799
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: it for us to completely log out of social media?

800
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: Is it to delete the apps from our phone and

801
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: just try to hang out with our friends in person

802
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: with the podcast apped around? Though?

803
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 3: Right, Technology is not all bad. It's there's trade offs,

804
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 3: just like with everything. And in terms of you know,

805
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 3: smartphones and social media, I think it's the same. So

806
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 3: if you kind of step back and think about it

807
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 3: in terms of, you know, what should you do? You know,

808
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: for people of different ages, and this is relevant to

809
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 3: you know, listeners have children as well. Let's protect kids

810
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: and teens as long as we possibly can, just put

811
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: it off, like no social media until sixteen would be fantastic,

812
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 3: and I and many other people are starting to advocate

813
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 3: for that, you know, in terms of policy change. But

814
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 3: as a parent, you can try to do that too.

815
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 3: Same thing with the smartphone. Don't hand your nine year

816
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: old and iPhone. Get them a flip phone or you

817
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: know one of those kids' phones, gab phones, pinwheel phones,

818
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: that type of thing where they can just call and

819
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: text and there's no internet access and no ability to

820
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 3: download social media apps. Because the problem is you need

821
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: to hand the kid's a smartphone. Okay, maybe you try

822
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: to put parental controls on it and stuff. But I

823
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 3: hear stories all the time very enterprising eleven year olds

824
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: who find workarounds.

825
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: Those kids are smart. Yeah, they're smart, smart than their

826
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: parents at that point.

827
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know, if you're going to give them

828
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: their own device, which is going to be with them

829
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 3: all the time, make sure that device is locked down

830
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 3: as you can possibly get it until they're old enough

831
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: to handle it. So in my house, the rule is

832
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: you don't get a smartphone until you get a driver's license.

833
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: That way, if they want to delay the driver's license,

834
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: like the generation currently wants to, they got to delay the.

835
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: Social media and then they're just struggle home with you anyway. Well,

836
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 2: I appreciate you you speaking to that. And again it's

837
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: even tangentially, maybe barely related to money. But again, what

838
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: we're talking about here is life satisfaction and happiness, and.

839
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 3: That's connected the money.

840
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: Yes, it's absolutely connected. Yeah, And the reason that we

841
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: talk about money is because we put it in the

842
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: framework that money allows you to pursue some of those things.

843
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: Is the money isn't the goal in and of itself.

844
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: It's the being able to live a fulfilling, happy life.

845
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: And so the other.

846
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: Thing is if you're not happy, you're probably also not

847
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 3: going to do as well in your career.

848
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all related, all interconnected, that's for sure.

849
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: Yes.

850
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: Well, doctor Gene Toygy, thank you so much for joining

851
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: us today on the show. Where can our listeners find

852
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: out more about you and find out about your book generations?

853
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I do a website. It's genetwiny dot com

854
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: and that has stuff about all my books and so on.

855
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: I also have a sub stack now, so I'm trying

856
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: to post every two weeks or so just with new

857
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 3: new findings about generational differences. And yeah, the new book

858
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: has has all the updated stuff across all the generations.

859
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 3: And really my goal in the book was understanding, you know,

860
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: to take big data and crunch it and try to

861
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 3: figure out what the real differences are as opposed to

862
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: stereotypes and have us get along better and understand each

863
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 3: other better. That that was really the goal behind the book.

864
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: I love it. That's yeah, that's that's what we do.

865
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: But with money, it's all the nuances and and the

866
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: fine details that make all the difference. Doctor Gene Twangie,

867
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking the time to speak

868
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 2: with us today.

869
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: Thank you all right, man, that was a that was

870
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: a great conversation with doctor Gene twenty It was and

871
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: just so different than so much of the stuff we

872
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: normally talk about on the podcast.

873
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 2: But certainly, yeah, I feel like we gave folks a

874
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 2: little bit of the heads up at the beginning where

875
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: he's like, Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna talk

876
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 2: about graphics. Yeah, you know, like that's not normally something

877
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: we talk about. But it is demographics's destiny, right, dude,

878
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: It truly is, and I'm glad we were able to

879
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: touch more on that towards the end of the episode here.

880
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: But all of this is going to have such an

881
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: impact on our futures and even the leadership of our country, right,

882
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: like the future generations, I mean we are the future generations,

883
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: but then also Gen Z and also our kids, the

884
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: polars or Alpha generation or Gen Alpha. But all of

885
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 2: this has an impact on the future of our country. Yeah, yeah,

886
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: what was you have a big takeaway? Oh? Man? Okay,

887
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 2: so I've had a lot of thoughts and a lot

888
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: of interesting data, but not like hard practical takeaways. But okay,

889
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 2: I think he's a couple of the biggest practical takeaway

890
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: I have from doctor Gene Toyni's work and from this

891
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: conversation is the necessity of optimism. And I think we've

892
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: become so pessimistic as a culture. And yes, those initial

893
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: reports at times of millennials and their financial success was like, hey,

894
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: they might not do as well as future generations, But

895
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 2: the facts on the ground changed, and we need to

896
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: update the data, and we need to update the narrative.

897
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: And I think if you are sitting back there saying

898
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: I got Delta raw hand, it's really easy to just

899
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: kind of wallow in that, not realizing that there's a

900
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: lot of opportunity out there for millennials. And so.

901
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: That's my big takeaway is that like optimism is a necessity,

902
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 1: and even if some of those those facts and data

903
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: are like, actually generation is not doing quite as well

904
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: or something like that, it doesn't mean you as an

905
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 1: individual can't too, right.

906
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 2: That's true. You can stand apart from your cohort.

907
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like you can choose to use a flip

908
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: phone and shoot the smartphones, and part of there's definitely

909
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: a big part of me that wants to do that.

910
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: I haven't necessarily taken that plunge yet, But you don't

911
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: have to. You don't have to be a stereotype of

912
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: your generation. But you can also you can also choose

913
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: to disbelieve the popular narrative about your generation that might

914
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: not be quite accurate totally.

915
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: And it's not that some of those events that did

916
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: actually happen in time. We're not denying that those had

917
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: an impact on folks. Right, So we were kind of

918
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: talking about the Great Recession and the impact on houses

919
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: and kind of where you landed on either side of

920
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: that had a large I had a lot to do

921
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: with your net worth now when it was that you

922
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: were able to purchase a home. And so now I'll

923
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: kind of segue to my big takeaway, which was I

924
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: like that she pointed out that it's not those external

925
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: factors as much as it is our own decisions to

926
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: not pursue certain things. And I feel that oftentimes what

927
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: we see in any generation, not just millennials, but we're

928
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: kind of picking on millennials because that's who we are,

929
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: and that's certainly they're entering in their prime working years.

930
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: The oldest millennials are now entering into middle age. But

931
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: oftentimes we point at things and say, oh, that's I mean,

932
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: come on, well, if that would have happened to me,

933
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: sure I'd own a home, or if I was in

934
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: a different position, maybe I would have a couple kids

935
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: or wanted whatever, right, maybe I would be married.

936
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: If homes were seventy K like the Boomers had. Exactly,

937
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: you're not taking an account the other things.

938
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: And it comes down to priorities. And I think what

939
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: we need to do is just own up to the

940
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: fact that we want to live different lives than perhaps

941
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: the lives that our parents lived, but to pin it

942
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 2: on the different life events that happened to us as

943
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 2: opposed to making decisions for ourselves and to proactively make

944
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: those decisions. I guess it's a small, little tweak, but

945
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 2: I think that amount it just empowers you as an

946
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 2: individual to make decisions that you know are going to

947
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: be best for you, even if they are different. That's

948
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 2: fine that they're different. Just own up to it rather

949
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: than having a bunch of excuses to point back to.

950
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: All Right, one more minor thing, the double edged sword

951
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: that technology is and has become for people of different generations,

952
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: Like the washing machine was this great labor saving device,

953
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: and the smartphone had, especially in its infancy, these wonderful impacts.

954
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: And now we're starting to.

955
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: See the other side of the smartphone revolution, right, and

956
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: how it's addicting people to a bunch of different things.

957
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: But our attention has been sucked away at the same time.

958
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: So technology can be really cool, it can fuel a

959
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: lot of productivity, or it can suck it dry. But Matt,

960
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: all right, let's get back to the beer that we

961
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: had on this episode. This one is an Icelandic Arctic

962
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: pale Ale by Einstock Old Geard, What were your thoughts

963
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: on this beer?

964
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll say that you can certainly taste the

965
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: hops in this compared to Monday's beer. Was that was

966
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: a pale logger, right or Icelandic it was an Arctic clogger,

967
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: that's right? But that one man that in my mind,

968
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: that one drank a little bit fresher, a little bit cleaner,

969
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: a little bit colder, whereas this one, I guess the

970
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: pale aspect of it, so you could certainly experience and

971
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: taste the hops a bit more. It was a bit

972
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: more bitter than I was expecting. It kind of reminded

973
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: me of like, is it the esb the was? Is

974
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: that like extra special bitter? Yeah? It definitely. That kind

975
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: of reminds me of one of those that's as compared

976
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: to a pale but certainly still liked it.

977
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: Would you think like a multi paale is how I

978
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: describe this one? Which maybe that's the way the Icelanders

979
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: do it, you know, which is which is cool. So

980
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: it's always fun to to the.

981
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 2: Sugars to keep them warm than those cold one, that's right,

982
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 2: that's right.

983
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, It always fun to try a new brewery,

984
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: especially one that's in a random, interesting country like Iceland.

985
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: So cloud to try this beer. It wasn't it wasn't

986
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: my favorite.

987
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: I'll okay, I just really I just on the canus.

988
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 2: This is trip hopped. Oh dang, all right. Sometimes you

989
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: get double double hopped or double dry hoped. This thing

990
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: was triple hopped.

991
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: No, it has It doesn't taste triple hopped. Well, the

992
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: mouths are overwhelming the hops in this one.

993
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, But the bitterness, the maybe that is from the

994
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: hops is what I taste. It's not triple dry hops,

995
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: because that's where we have more of that, you know,

996
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: that fresher, drier, more herbal verbalness. This is just bitterness

997
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 2: with yes, yes, that's true. That's true.

998
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Matt, that's going to do it for

999
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: this episode. We'll put links to doctor Gene Twangies substack

1000
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: to where you can buy her book. Let's put that

1001
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: stuff up on the show notes at howtomoney dot com.

1002
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: But let's wrap it up now and until next time,

1003
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,