WEBVTT - Carl Sagan: American Hero 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.920 Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:12.240 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.560 Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Noel. The 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:19.000 Stint of Noel is winding down sadly. It's such an 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:24.880 awkward thing having no here, no the stint of knol Right, 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.960 Oh you mean the wording? Yeah, wording is fine? All right? 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.960 How you doing? I'm fine, just like that wording. I'm sleepy? 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.120 Why about I've just been staying up late, writing until 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.040 one and two in the morning like a dope like 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:47.640 a seventeen Oh yeah, yeah, a manifesto. No, no, just 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.520 staying up too late, that's neat. Do you drink wine 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.320 while you type? Last night? It was bullet bourbon? Yeah, 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.200 and then you're just like, I'm not typing words correctly anymore. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.120 And then time for bed. You get on a roll 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.000 and then you look up and it's to two am. 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.280 Nice man, I'm glad to hear that six thirty yearlls 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.000 around and here we are. That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.600 So you're creative juices are flowing. They're flowing, baby. You 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.559 know who else is juices were flowing and still flow 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.640 through this universe. Carl Sagan, he was. He was a 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.880 creative science type. Yeah, and it made him kind of controversial. Man. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.160 It also made him beloved, beloved, and uh, I think 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.360 one of like the precursors to what we do, you know. 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.880 In fact, he there's a quote on him being an explainer, 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.039 which I thought was very cool, which is the geekiest 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:42.080 term ever, but it's a pretty it's a good term science. Yeah, 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.360 he said. I think I'm able to explain things because 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.800 understanding wasn't entirely easy for me. Some things that the 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.440 most brilliant students were able to see instantly, I had 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.280 to work to understand. I can remember what I had 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.200 to do to figure it out. The very brilliant ones 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.560 figure it out so fast that sounds familiar. They never 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.360 see the mechanics of understanding out. I really identified with that, 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.960 and like, man, that's kind of what we do. You know. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.400 We worked really hard to understanding this because we're not experts, 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.320 and he wasn't an expert on one thing. He covered 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.920 a lot of That's what made him unique, A lot 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.839 of different facets of science. Yeah, which you don't see much. 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.360 No you don't. I mean it does pop up here 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.800 and there. But if you if you think about the 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.040 people who are like that, like Jared Diamond is a 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:30.200 really good current example Neil Type. No, that's Dustin Diamond. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.320 Jared Diamond. Uh man. I don't even remember what he's 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:39.200 trained in. He's just such a generalist. But he wrote 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:43.120 like guns, germs and steel. Um, he's got a little 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.680 a little Robert bork Beard, good guy. Um, he's one. 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.440 Neil deGrasse Tyson has definitely become one, although he's still 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.200 very much an astrophysician, right, yeah, but he's he's sort 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.679 of talked about a lot of times in terms of 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.480 being like Sagan, and not just because as he rebooted Cosmos, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.200 which was Sagan's show, but um, oh yeah, he's just 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.760 the face of science, Like he's the go to guy. 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.840 I mean, like he was the obvious choice for Cosmos 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.600 because he was already so much like Sagan, following in 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.280 those footsteps for sure. Those other guys, just like Brian 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.399 Green as a science explainer, Bill Nye as a science explainer. Um, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.320 they're definitely out there for sure. But you can you 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.919 make a good point that Sagan was one of the originals, 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.000 if not the original but the idea that he was 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:35.720 somebody who was willing to draw parallels from different disciplines 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.880 in science or bring him together to create, um, something 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.360 approachable for people, to kind of invigorate people's love of science. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.000 I think it's amazing. Yeah. It made him beloved. It 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.800 also just made him not reviled. This is not the 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.160 right word, but he was definitely criticized in the scientific establishment. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.840 Uh in parts. For sure. Some people in the scientific 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:03.560 establishment loved him, and some were like, uh, you're not 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.720 doing much real research. You know, you're just sort of 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.880 a face guy. And um, I poo poo that entirely 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.880 and say that he did a lot for science and 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.760 people like him are are necessary, and uh, I value 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.440 their work. Okay, you're taking a stand. Huh. Yeah, man, 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.680 Carl Sagan is amazing. He's one of my heroes. Yeah, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.159 he's like. I watched Cosmos when I was ten years old. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.160 I have never seen it. Man, it was great. I 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.000 mean it was a PBS show that had tens of 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:39.520 millions of viewers. Millions and millions, So that's you're saken. Yeah, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.120 And you know what he he told Johnny Carson. He 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.240 never said billions and billions Uh, he said billions of 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.599 pond billions, right, I never heard it. There's a super 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.359 cut on YouTube of all of his billions, millions and 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:57.000 trillions from Cosmos cut to uh with it like hip 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:02.600 hop music, bed and um is a glorious down. I 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:04.800 don't remember the name of it. There's one. There's a 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.559 video a song that somebody created with him, a super 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.600 cut of him. It's called Glorious Toll. It's pretty great. Well, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.599 I never heard billions and billions in there. There's a 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.520 lot of billions and millions and trillions. He loved those words, 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.320 but he said I never specifically said billions and billions, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.240 and I couldn't. I didn't hear it either, So he's 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.520 a misunderstood genius. Yeah, they became I think Carson did 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.720 at first, or maybe it was Saturday Night Live, and 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.440 then that just became the thing, billions and billions, because 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.520 he is a weird little dude for sure, in a 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.039 lot of ways, easily parody, but he also seemed to 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.440 have a fairly good sense of humor about himself at 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.480 least and in general. He smoked grass. He thought grass 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:52.760 was far out man. We just vaulted back in time 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.800 with that one he smoked the marijuana grass making a 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.560 contemporary He was on the pot, Yeah, he did. He 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.159 liked to smoke weed and um. In fact, I have 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:09.479 a quote here from he wrote an essay and best 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.320 Pavement album by the way. He wrote an essay. I 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.599 don't know about that. Yeah, what's your favorite? Um? I 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.919 planned it in Enchanna the first one it's hard. Although 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.479 Crooked Rain, crookt Rain was pretty good. No, I've never 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.760 seen him more interested in what we're talking about. It's funny. 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.600 In college we used to have a saying, it's not 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.359 a matter of which album are we gonna listen to next? 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.920 It's which Pavement album are we gonna listen to? Next? 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.000 T shirt? Yeah? So anyway, Sagan wrote an essay and uh, 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.920 marijuana reconsidered um, and here is one of his quotes. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.400 He said, the cannabis experienced has greatly improved my appreciation 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.799 for art, a subject which I had never much appreciated before. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.839 The understanding of the intent of the artists, which I 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.839 can achieve when high, sometimes carries over to when I'm down. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.880 This is one of many human frontiers which cannabis has 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.800 helped me traverse. Was that the frog doing Carl Sagan. 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.200 That was sort of kermity, but he uh yeah, I 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.680 mean that's not it doesn't define him or anything, but yeah, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.760 he liked to smoke the pot and he liked to 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.880 get out of his little tape recorder and talk about stuff, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.600 put on a turnal neck, yeah, with nothing else. It 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.000 was the sixties and seventies, of course he was, and 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.480 I think the eighties and maybe even into the nineties. 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:28.120 That's true. So um, let's let's I guess let's go 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.560 back to the beginning. We've done some pretty good teasing here, right, 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.200 And when you're talking about a human being, there's no 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.120 place better to start at the beginning than with their 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:45.560 birth Brooklyn, New York. His mother was Rachel, was a 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:51.040 garment industry manager and apparently the biggest Oh yeah, yeah, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.040 but his mom was overbearing. Yes, mom was overbearing. Sorry, 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.240 dad was a Ukrainian immigrant, Samuel, who worked as a 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.840 garment industry manager. Because in four they probably and hire 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.320 women to do jobs like that, which is really stinky. 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:05.880 So uh and we it's not like we've met the 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.600 lady or anything and can report that she's overbearing. The 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:13.080 idea that she's overbearing comes from this longstanding image of her. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.440 She had very high hopes and high expectations and aspirations 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.360 for Carl very well may have made the man. Yeah, 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.920 you know, I moved to New Jersey after a little 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.440 while and was voted the class brain at Rahway High School. 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.200 And I thought this was interesting in this what articles 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.240 this New Yorker, which one while why Carl Sagan's truly 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:41.720 replaceable Smith Smithsonian Joel Ackenbach. Uh. It was a great article, though. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:46.000 But they tracked down in nineteen fifty three a questionnaire 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.160 from high school that he had to fill out on 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.600 his own character traits, and Sagan said he gave himself 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.840 low marks for vigorousness like with sports, an average rating 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.679 for emotional stability, and the highest ratings for being dominant 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.160 and reflective. I'm gonna start using that vigorousness. Yeah, and 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.320 I worked out this morning. I'm so vigorous. Um. So 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.520 that's not just a piece of paper they dug up, Chuck, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.800 that's from his archives, which were actually sold to the 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.920 Library of Congress by his widow. Um what is his 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.280 widow's name? Anne? And drew in one of his uh, well, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.920 his his widow. But he was married three times um 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.920 and uh Ann sold the papers. Are supplied the papers 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.400 for an honorarium, I guess, to the Library of Congress, 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.520 And the Library of Congress got that money from Seth McFarland. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.440 So basically, Seth McFarland bought Carl Sagan's papers and donated 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.880 them to the Library of Congress. Yes, that's why. It's 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.520 pretty cool. That's what it's called, the Seth McFarland Collection 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:52.079 of the Carl Sagan and drew In Archive. Had to 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.880 put his name on there. Well, I mean, sure, why not? 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.520 You know, No, it's fine. He's he's he's a huge 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.280 fan of his work, and he's the one who rebooted 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.720 Cosmos and genuinely, like, I mean, I gotta say, like, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.000 whatever you have to say about Seth McFarland, there was 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.040 plenty to say about Seth McFarland. He is, he proved 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.920 himself a true fan of Carl Sagan and a rich guy. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.480 I've always liked a family guy. So I don't have 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.800 any bad to say about him. Uh, what have you 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.840 seen American Dad? No, I never got into that. Actually, yeah, 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.680 it's not family guy. It's definitely just totally different. Uh. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:32.480 Seven hundred and ninety eight boxes of stuff of archival material. Um. 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.480 The guy love to log every conversation he ever had 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.839 and every thought that ever entered his brain, mainly through 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.040 the cassette tape. But um, I guess that was transcribed 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:48.600 by other folks. Yeah, apparently that's um. Joel achenbach Um 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.720 says that his his writing style was so conversational because 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.960 he didn't write, He dictated into ad dictaphone and then 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.040 it was transcribed. Basically, basically, he was like the Hunter 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.000 s Thompson of science. Yeah. Remember Hunter t had like 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.400 the real real he'd wear around his neck when one 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.040 is high on marijuana. It is a buzz skill to type. Actually, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.560 that's funny. We bring up Hunter Thompson. Hunter Thompson loved acid. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.240 You know who else loved acid? Timothy Leary. You know 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.960 who hung out with Timothy Leary, Carl Sagan. Timothy Leary 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.360 was trying to get Sagan to advise him on how 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:26.040 to build a an interstellar arc because Leary just totally 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.720 lost his stuff by this time, right on him. Oh yeah, 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.920 I'm surprised we haven't. Um, let's do it, man, we should. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:35.720 We should do one on like the Mary pranks there's 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.760 a whole thing just basically redo the the electric kool 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.960 Aid ascid test would be a good episode. But Leary 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.080 um at a mental institution because he'd been popped with 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.120 a bunch of acid. I think had a visitor in 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.920 Carl Sagan and Frank Drake of the famous Drake equation, 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.320 and they came by to say hi, and and Leary 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.360 was like, seriously, you guys have to help me design this. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.840 And they were like, this the closest stars too far away, 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.920 your koke, This isn't gonna work. And Learry said he 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.719 since that they had some sort of neural blockage. That's 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.120 why they couldn't think like he could. Yeah. Man, So 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.679 that was Carl Sagan Timothy Larry story. But I think 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.719 they stayed in touch. Oh I'm sure they did. So. Uh. 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.800 Young Sagan is his life kind of changes when he 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.520 goes to the World's Fair in nineteen thirty nine. He 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.680 was just five years old. You remember whose World's Fair 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:30.240 that was? Was it? No? Was it Chicago? Eddie Berns? 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.880 Oh yeah, that was the law wo the one that 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.920 changed everything, including Carl Sagan. Boy, that's a big one. Um. 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.160 So Sagan goes to the World's Fair, and it was 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.680 sort of a a great time, um, to be a 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.959 young kid interested in science, because in the late thirties 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.400 and forties and fifties, it was like everyone was captivated 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.160 by the future. Right, There's this idea that science could 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.480 do anything, anything and very soon would. It was really 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.720 exciting and um, it was just a great time to 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.680 be to be into it. It's the uh what's his 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.920 name Openheimer? No, Oppenheimer. Now I'm talking about the article 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:17.240 back like, yeah, Oppenheimer. Yeah, I'm the I'm become death. 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.160 That's what I thought you were talking about. Uh. In 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.920 the article, he makes a great point about, um, just 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:27.160 that that time period and um, how exploratory everything was 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.800 really from then, like through the nineteen seventies. That was 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.800 a great like forty year period in science where basically 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.280 that was funding and like anything is possible, we can 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.800 do anything we want until they started to you know, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.600 I guess disproved things here and there, right, And actually 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.600 what's interesting is there's a corresponding boost in technology from 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.079 that era too, And a lot of people point out 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.000 that all of this stuff from about nineteen seventy five 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.800 on is actually built on the backs of the stuff 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.560 that was built in the forty years before that, from 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.720 about ninety five to nineteen seventy five, and ever since then, 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.440 we've the technological plateau. It's really interesting and you don't 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.520 think about You're like, well, no, I mean we have 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.960 iPhones now. It's like, yeah, iPhones are all they're a 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.160 combination of different stuff that was first discovered or invented 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:17.080 forty or more years ago. Um, And basically everything's like that. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.160 We were in a slump right now. So it was 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.040 not only a time where they thought science could do anything. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.440 Science was doing just about anything. And we've since hit 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.400 a plateau and um. He the author described him. I 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.520 thought it was a great description Sagan as a nuanced 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:37.120 referee because really cool thing about Sagan was he was 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.480 very grounded in science and proof and facts, but he 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.080 wasn't um. He wasn't just a square and a skeptic, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.000 although he was a skeptic, yeah, but he was also 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.640 like he wanted to to find life on other planets. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.600 And he didn't shut things down. He was all about 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.360 the discussion of everything as long as you still did 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.720 the research. We're grounded in fact as a matter of fact, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.560 and he did not believe in UFOs. He did not 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.400 think that UFOs were extraterrestrial spacecraft, but in nineteen sixty 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.560 nine he mounted a conference on UFOs in which everyone 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.440 apparently had their say all sides. Yeah, it wasn't like 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.840 we're mounting a conference on UFOs. You can come so 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.440 the rest of us can poo poo your ideas and beliefs. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.200 It was, come and share your your position on it. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.920 That's enormous, and that in and of itself is worth 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.960 remembering the person for. But this is nineteen sixty nine, 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.440 before you'd even become like a household name or anything 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.640 like it. Yeah, And I like to think we do that, 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.480 and we still get emails. So we got one today 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.640 for people that said it's it's dangerous to even mention 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.640 other schools of thought. That's dogmatic. Yeah, And I just 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.200 I don't agree that dogmatic and close minded and don't 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.720 even bring don't even email us with that crap. Yeah, 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.440 I just don't don't even bother because we're gonna we're 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.400 gonna make fun of you on the air. Yeah, because 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.480 that's not what our shows about. Even if we don't 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.800 believe something, we like to throw all sides out there. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.160 Because I think, uh, discussion is healthy no matter what. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.520 That's just me. Even when we were mocking crop circles, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.160 we still like talked about crop circles, did we not. 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.800 It's not like we just pretended like there wasn't such 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.720 a thing as crop circles. That's right, And we have 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.480 Carl Sagan, thank for laying that golden path in front 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.000 of us. So you want to take a break, I 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.360 don't want to, but we have Okay, all right, we'll 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:49.600 be right back. All right, So we've been beating around 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.440 the bush here. Um, let's talk well not really, we've 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.360 been getting into it, but let's let's talk about some 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.600 of the things that Sagan. Uh. He wasn't just some 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.000 Johnny come lately. He had uh degree upon degree. I 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.680 think he had had billions and billions. We had undergrad degree, 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.600 he had his masters, he had his PhD. He was 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.560 he was well versed in a lot of realms of science, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.680 but his big thing was astronomy. Right. He had two 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.600 degrees in undergraded masters in physics and then a doctorate 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.240 in astronomy. Um and he did a little stint at Harvard. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.400 I didn't get tenure. So he's like, I'm out of here, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.560 and Cornell is like, you come to us and we 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.760 will treat you like a god. And they did, and 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:35.040 he settled in at Cornell and set up am his 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:40.440 own lab right, the Laboratory for Planetary for Planetary Studies. Uh, 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.119 and he just that was when he really started to 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.520 get going. He was doing cide work for NASA at 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.160 the time as well doing consulting. He did that throughout 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.840 his whole career, formulas, that kind of stuff. Sure, when 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.040 NASA is picking your brain about like the Apollo mission, 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.200 you're you're doing pretty well for yourself as a scientist. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.560 But so he had this this this potent child to 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.639 to really go as sciency as he wanted to with 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.439 the stuff, and he did in some ways in a 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.600 lot of ways with his consulting with NASA, but he 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:16.840 also kind of pushed NASA into humanities um direction as well. Yeah, 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.560 like the the Voyager discs, that's a that's a really 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.920 great example of it. Like he talked NASA and including 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.879 discs on Voyager one and two, the Golden Record, Yeah, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.040 that are they're basically like, here's some stuff that represents 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.120 humanity and Earth. Yeah, pretty much like if we ever 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.679 do find life on Earth. We need to have something 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.560 to offer them to represent us. Yeah, what I say, 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.200 life on Earth. Yeah, there's life on Earth. That's pretty 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.880 much documented. His fact, life out there, extraterrestrial life. He said, 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.480 we need to present ourselves and what Earth is like 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.280 and what humans are like. So he included a hundred 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.160 and fifteen images representing the diversity of life and then 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.840 uh sounds basically like his wife. Literally, this is pretty 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.000 out there. I don't know if marijuana had anything to 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.760 do with it, I think so. Yeah, his wife Anne, 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.040 she created her own sounds for the project. Basically, she 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:14.040 meditated and then thought, I told the story of the 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.920 universe by thinking it with her brain, and then those 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.439 brain waves were translated into music. And she said, my 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.200 mind also wandered to my love of my husband, so 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.520 that was translated. So they blasted. That was her message 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.359 that they blasted out in space, which is pretty far 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.320 out right, but but awesome messages of love. Sure, man, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:39.159 it's pretty neat. He wasn't afraid to show his tender side. No, no, no, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:44.840 he definitely wasn't. He was vulnerable in a lot of ways. Um. 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.800 And also on those discs, there's a believe etchings of 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.760 a man and a woman. I think it's etched on 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.000 the disc and they're like laser disc size. They're super 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.520 retro and made of gold, which is pretty cool. Um. 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.480 And then there's a basically a depiction of where Earth 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.120 is in the Milky Way, I believe, so it's basically 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.120 saying we're here if you ever find this. And then 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.960 of course Voyager one I believe I got lost and 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:15.359 awakened and became sentient and then became a god on 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.880 to some beings. Remember, and I think Star Trek one 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.879 the first, the first movie. I never saw that. Vijor. 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.640 Do you never saw any of the Star Trek movies, Dude, 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.760 I've never seen one episode of the TV show. I've 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.040 never seen one episode of the Next Generation. The only 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.280 Star Trek thing I've ever ingested was our Apologies to 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.080 Will Wheaton. By the way, was that first movie that J. J. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.160 Abrams did. I saw that. I saw the second one 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.640 of that. I also saw, I think Star Trek maybe one, two, 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.480 and three, And in one of those, there's this god 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.960 vjer who's like this artificial intelligence, and they finally meet 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:58.440 Vijor and realized that the Oi UH is blotted out 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.760 and it's really VOI of jar One the Space Probe. Wow, yeah, 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.119 that's pretty cool. I thought it was pretty neat too. 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.679 I'm not a tricky by any means, but yeah, they 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:10.719 were still entertaining. I just never got into it. I 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.320 was always a Star Wars guy, not that they're mutually exclusive, 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.600 but I don't know. It just didn't grab me. You know, 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:17.800 who would have predicted that we go off on a 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.520 star trek Tangent and the Carl. Although I think I've 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.679 told the story of working on a commercial with William Chatterer, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.320 you have, didn't he like bend you over a car 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:32.280 and pretend to arrestue That was punch? Hey Shatner was 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.240 t J Hooker. It could have happened. Yeah, he was 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.600 great though. He was awesome. He'd love being William Chatterer. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:38.760 Oh yeah, man, you can tell like I wears it 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.399 like a suit. Yeah he was. He was awesome, very 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.640 nice guy. So, um, we're getting off track again here 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.440 with science. There was actual science to stuff. As a 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.720 matter of fact, the idea of the greenhouse effect is 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.960 rooted partially in his work. Yeah, I mean that that 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:01.000 had been around since the late nineteenth century. But um, 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.400 he looked at like a planet like Venus and said, 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.120 you know what, Venus is really hot, and I think 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:11.840 wise because this greenhouse effect. And um, then because of 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:15.280 that work, people started thinking, well maybe Earth has a 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:17.919 greenhouse effect. Going on to really opened the door for 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.840 that line of thought. It did, and he's correct. Earth 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.920 definitely does have a greenhouse effect, and it's problematic. Correct. 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.520 Another one that he's widely cited for is the Fate 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.919 Young Young Son paradox um. I don't know if the 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.080 if he was the one who first pointed this out 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.320 or if he just kind of built upon it and 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.720 it's still not fully solved. I think so he and 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.760 George Mullen figure this out. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.639 the idea is that Earth early on in its history 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:54.200 was a ball of ice, but problematically, there was also 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.920 some liquid water on Earth too, It wasn't all ice. 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.359 This doesn't make much sense because the Sun as it 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.440 stands now is just about enough to keep Earth from 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:06.400 from being a frozen ball of ice. But back then, 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:08.800 when Earth was mostly a frozen ball of ice, the 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:14.520 Sun was only at like it's luminosity or lumosity luminosity 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.760 one of those luminosity, right, yeah, sure, Um that it 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.040 is today and so it doesn't make sense that there 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:24.240 should be any liquid water on Earth. And it's called 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.440