1
00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,880
Speaker 1: On December twenty seventh, two thousand and two, Jennifer del

2
00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Prete was working at a daycare facility in Romeoville, Illinois.

3
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,239
Speaker 1: One of the children in her care, a nearly four

4
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 1: month old girl, was struggling to breathe and was nearly

5
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,239
Speaker 1: limp del Prete claimed to have given the infant a

6
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 1: slight shake to rouse her, in addition to a few

7
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: pats in case anything was launched in her throat. As

8
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000
Speaker 1: the child's condition deteriorated, Jennifer called nine to one one

9
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,760
Speaker 1: and reported that the child was not breathing and had

10
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 1: no pulse. Paramedics were able to restart the little girl's heart,

11
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,919
Speaker 1: but she remained unconscious. Cat scans revealed recent as well

12
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,000
Speaker 1: as older bleeding within the coverings of the brain. A

13
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: few days later, retinal hemorrhaging appeared as well, and physicians

14
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: concluded that the child's injuries were the result of violent

15
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,559
Speaker 1: shaking at the hand of her most recent caregiver, Jennifer

16
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,239
Speaker 1: del Prete, who was charged with child battery, but just

17
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,760
Speaker 1: over ten months later, the child died and the charge

18
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 1: was upgraded to murder. At trial, the state's four experts

19
00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: made their case that the evidence of the most recent

20
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 1: brain bleed had to have been the result of violent shaking,

21
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 1: while the evidence of older bleeds must have meant that

22
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,840
Speaker 1: the abuse was ongoing. It would seem unlikely that all

23
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: these medical professionals would have missed some other lingering medical condition, right,

24
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 1: but this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.

25
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 1: Today we have a shaken baby prosecution which there appeared

26
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: to be warning signs that this young infant girl was sick,

27
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,399
Speaker 1: but the cause was just missed before it was too late,

28
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 1: and instead her death was mistakenly attributed to alleged abuse

29
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 1: at the hand of our guest today, Jennifer del Preet.

30
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.

31
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 2: Well, hello, thank you for having me.

32
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 1: You're very welcome and joining us to help tell this story.

33
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 1: Is Jenny's a pellet counsel from Blagan and Garvey, Pat Blagan, Pat,

34
00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 1: welcome to the show.

35
00:01:58,840 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 3: Thanks.

36
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: Now he became familiar with SPS shaking baby syndrome because

37
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 1: of this case, and we've covered this multi hypothesis on

38
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: wrongful Conviction junk Science with our host Josh Dubin and

39
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 1: the executive director of the Center for Integrity and Forensic

40
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,520
Speaker 1: Science as Kate Judson, who will join us later to

41
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,119
Speaker 1: talk about how it relates to Jenny's prosecution. Now, back

42
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, when this hypothesis was first posited

43
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,520
Speaker 1: by doctor Dorman guth Kelch, he was searching for the

44
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 1: cause of these findings brain bleeds, retinal bleeds, and brain

45
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,640
Speaker 1: swelling that were being observed in infants who were either

46
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 1: deceased or were struggling to survive, and he thought that

47
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: maybe these findings could be the result of the bridging

48
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,640
Speaker 1: veins of the brain and eyes being severed by the

49
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,919
Speaker 1: acceleration and deceleration of violence shaking. Does anyone know how

50
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 1: this went from a simple hypothesis to a widely or

51
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 1: almost universally accepted but not yet exposed junk science that

52
00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,640
Speaker 1: has ruined so many thousands of lives.

53
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 3: I don't think he ever intended it to be that way.

54
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 3: I think he just wanted parents in England to maybe

55
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 3: stop handling their children so roughly. But he wasn't saying,

56
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,880
Speaker 3: oh my god, these things are diagnostic of this. But

57
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 3: I think it's the difference between the old way that

58
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,079
Speaker 3: medicine operated, Like you know, medical students and doctors were

59
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 3: taught Hey if you find these things, then the answer

60
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 3: is x, this is what the patient has. In more

61
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 3: recent years, there's been a move to what they call

62
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,240
Speaker 3: evidence based medicine, and.

63
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,239
Speaker 1: With that shift came folks who found, as I mentioned earlier,

64
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 1: a growing list of eighty one non traumatic medical conditions

65
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: that can cause these findings in addition to traumatic causes

66
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 1: the car wrecks or even short falls. And increasingly studies

67
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,120
Speaker 1: find that if shaking could be the cause that we should,

68
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 1: we almost must expect to see some other very specific injuries.

69
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 2: Many cases will also have occipital bone samach, the neck bone.

70
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 1: We now expect to see a spinal injury if we

71
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 1: can even begin to suspect violence shaking. But before you

72
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: had to know any of this stuff, of about SBS,

73
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 1: shake and baby Singer, we'll call it SBS. Jenny, what

74
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 1: was your life like and how did you decide to

75
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: get involved in childcare.

76
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 2: I come from a middle class family living in the

77
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 2: Southwest suburbs off of Chicago. I was babysitting since I

78
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,880
Speaker 2: was ten, and I had my daughter at eighteen. But

79
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 2: I was a good mom and I started babysitting so

80
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 2: I could still be with my daughter and I would

81
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 2: bring her with. I just really have a passion for children.

82
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 2: They just love me, and I just get along with

83
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,360
Speaker 2: them a lot. I get along with them more than adults.

84
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,040
Speaker 1: You eventually had a second kid, too, right.

85
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 2: Yes, I have two children. I have a daughter, Tia,

86
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,479
Speaker 2: she's thirty three, and I have a son, Draven, he's

87
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 2: twenty five.

88
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,600
Speaker 1: I understand you are a very involved mom. You participated

89
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,320
Speaker 1: as a room mom at your daughter school. In addition

90
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 1: to babysitting. You work part time at a library. And

91
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 1: that's how things went for a while until a friend

92
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: of your is another one of the room moms at school,

93
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,279
Speaker 1: Gleanne Care, gave you a new opportunity.

94
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,080
Speaker 2: Gleanne wanted to bring in more income, bought a home

95
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 2: in Romeoville that was a daycare already. She remembered me

96
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 2: working with children back in the room mom days and

97
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 2: thought of me, so she asked me if i'd work

98
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 2: at the daycare. But I didn't want to leave the

99
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 2: library because I loved it, so I did both.

100
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: And what about the family who we're going to refer

101
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,119
Speaker 1: to as the z family and the infant in this case, Iz,

102
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 1: From what I understand, you had only known her for

103
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,479
Speaker 1: about the final eight weeks of her nearly four month

104
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 1: long or short life. But you spent a great deal

105
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,680
Speaker 1: of time with her, feeding her, getting to know her idiosyncrasies.

106
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was very She would cry a lot. She

107
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 2: seemed like she was in pain. So we went and

108
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 2: talked to the mom a few times and told her

109
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 2: maybe she has acid reflox. You should, you know, look

110
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,960
Speaker 2: into that and get her what she needs, because she

111
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 2: was very, very, I would say, touchy, just cried a lot.

112
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: I also read from the trial that Glenn had testified

113
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 1: that he z the baby would often clench her fists

114
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,720
Speaker 1: after she ate, unusual for a baby, right, And it

115
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 1: was later confirmed that there was evidence that she was

116
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: having seizures. But all of these red flags had gone unnoticed.

117
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: In addition to another glaring detail, what.

118
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 3: Was not noticed at the time, even though you know

119
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,920
Speaker 3: the pediatrician visits they had been measuring the head circumference,

120
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 3: was the head grew at an abnormally fast rate, which

121
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 3: can be a sign of a chronic subdural hemotoma, meaning

122
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 3: a bleed in the brain. It's one of the reasons

123
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 3: why they take those kind of measurements. Brain bleeds are

124
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 3: not uncommon at birth, and they're not always dangerous, but

125
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 3: they do want to monitor them.

126
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: What was missed by the doctors before and after, and

127
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 1: was absent a trial as well, was that IS's head

128
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: circumference went from the fiftieth to the ninetieth percentile in

129
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 1: just ten weeks.

130
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,839
Speaker 3: You know, our belief is that's the old brain bleed

131
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,679
Speaker 3: probably existed at the time the head was growing too fast.

132
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,320
Speaker 1: Eventually, it turned out that these older brain bleeds were

133
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,600
Speaker 1: likely present before Jenny had even met the child, and

134
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 1: were likely ongoing through the tragic end of her incredibly

135
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 1: short life, which happened during that sleepy week between Christmas

136
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 1: and New Year's when the whole world basically grinds to

137
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 1: a hall. It was December twenty seventh, two thousand and two.

138
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,800
Speaker 2: Yes, I was the only one scheduled to work. Leanne

139
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 2: had to go out of town for Christmas. It was

140
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 2: a great week. It was the first week ever in

141
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 2: my life as a single mom of two kids, and

142
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,120
Speaker 2: I paid for everything in cash for Christmas. It was

143
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 2: a very good time in my life. I was about

144
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 2: thirty four and I was doing well on my own

145
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 2: for once.

146
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 1: And what do you remember from the time you arrived

147
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: at the daycare that day, so I.

148
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 2: Got there and the Ze family came too. She had

149
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 2: to work, I guess, but we didn't know that at

150
00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: the time that the baby was sick. She had a

151
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 2: fever on Christmas Eve and went into the hospital. I

152
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 2: wasn't aware of that. She brought me some medicine, said

153
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 2: she was sick, some amoxicillin, the pink stuff, and I

154
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 2: didn't think anything of it. Babies gets sick all the time.

155
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,960
Speaker 1: And it turns out that a maxicillan taken along with

156
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: gas relieve medication can trigger seizures. So there were just

157
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 1: so many things potentially happening inside this poor little girl,

158
00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 1: So please continue.

159
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,920
Speaker 2: Well, the mom was a little bit rushed, so she

160
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 2: was kind of running in with the kids, and she

161
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 2: told me to give her this medicine. At one I

162
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 2: put it in the fridge and she didn't say anything

163
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 2: else about it. I don't know if it was an

164
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:17,000
Speaker 2: ear infection or cold. So I just took the kids.

165
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,240
Speaker 1: And as I understand it, you had your hands full

166
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: that day.

167
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have two five year olds, a four

168
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 2: year old, and a three year old all around me.

169
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's a full squad. And as you said

170
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 1: later to police and repeat it consistently ever since. Is

171
00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 1: that while trying to care for all of these other kids,

172
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 1: you had fed iy and put her down for a nap,

173
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 1: and when she awoke around noon, you set her on

174
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 1: the couch, made a bottle, and when you returned you

175
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 1: found that she was struggling to breathe. Now, according to police,

176
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: you never said that you had vigorously shaken her, but

177
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,440
Speaker 1: you said you had given her a slight shake to

178
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 1: try to rouse her. Then you checked her throat for

179
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: a blockage and gave her a pat on the back.

180
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,439
Speaker 1: And soon her condition worsened.

181
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 2: And I called nine one one. They asked me to

182
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,720
Speaker 2: do CPR, which I did. They came in within minutes

183
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 2: and they took over and she went off to the hospital.

184
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,319
Speaker 2: I had to stay there with the kids.

185
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 3: So the baby goes to Saint Joseph's Hospital and the

186
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 3: administer of epinephrine, they do get the heartbeat restored. They

187
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,960
Speaker 3: start doing X rays and the sea scans trying to

188
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,320
Speaker 3: find out what's wrong with the baby, and it is

189
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:27,079
Speaker 3: early on that they find acute, meaning like newer brain bleeds,

190
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 3: but they also find chronic, meaning older brain bleeds. And

191
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,839
Speaker 3: I think one of the initial treating doctors said something like, oh, well,

192
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,840
Speaker 3: when you see a brain blead like that, you know

193
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 3: you have to assume it's shaken baby or baby abuse

194
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 3: or something. They said that the old brain bleed was

195
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 3: also caused by abuse, even though we don't know anything

196
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 3: else about it other than there was a brain bleed.

197
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: Right, there was no other information about those older bleeds,

198
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: and as the days passed, the preediatric critical care doctor

199
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 1: noted some retinal hemorrhage and eventually brain swalling, which just

200
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,360
Speaker 1: confirmed what they believed. While a procedure performed on is

201
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 1: led findings, it should have again made them question their

202
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,439
Speaker 1: conclusions and their resolve.

203
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,040
Speaker 3: So they ended up doing a burr whole procedure to

204
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 3: alleviate some of the pressure in the brain and evacuate

205
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 3: some of the blood. So we had the imaging showing

206
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 3: the old brain bleeds, but then that was also confirmed

207
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,840
Speaker 3: by this surgery because they evacuated old blood from the brain,

208
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 3: and they're also seeing evidence of seizures. There's like seizure

209
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 3: activity that they're noting when the baby's asleep and at

210
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 3: some other times there was evidence at least from Jenny

211
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,600
Speaker 3: herself and from Gleann Kerr about the cleansing of fists

212
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 3: and the baby shaking after she ate that perhaps this

213
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 3: seizure activity was happening before the baby collapsed, and would

214
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,760
Speaker 3: of course give an alternative explanation. But one of the

215
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 3: doctors who said this must be shaking baby syndrome said, well,

216
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,720
Speaker 3: those seizures were a result of the shaking baby syndrome.

217
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 3: And that's what I think. One of the things that

218
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 3: made me realize how dangerous this kind of diagnosis is

219
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 3: is they really are jumping to the conclusion. They say

220
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 3: they're not trying to diagnose murder, but they are, and

221
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 3: they're doing it from very very limited findings.

222
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 1: So instead of paying mind to these sides that something

223
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,840
Speaker 1: else was clearly going on inside this poor little girl's

224
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,719
Speaker 1: body and had been potentially since birth, the doctors were

225
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: doubling down, sticking to the diagnosis that they had made

226
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 1: on day one, that they had already relayed to police

227
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: and the Z family on the day I was brought in.

228
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 2: I called the Z family a few times when I

229
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 2: got home that day and at least for two to

230
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 2: three days to find out how she was. They wouldn't respond.

231
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 2: They didn't answer phone calls, voicemails, nothing.

232
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenberg Trauig

233
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,839
Speaker 1: through its pro bono program. Greenberg Trowig leverages its more

234
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,080
Speaker 1: than twenty six hundred lawyers across forty four offices to

235
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,280
Speaker 1: serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal

236
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 1: access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice,

237
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,400
Speaker 1: Greenberg Trowerg attorneys have exonerated and freedomanded Philadelphia represent numerous

238
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,079
Speaker 1: individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed as juveniles

239
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,079
Speaker 1: and resentencing hearings, and received the American Bar Associations twenty

240
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 1: twenty one Exceptional Service Award for Death Penalty Representation for

241
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: their work on five death penalty cases. GT is reimagining

242
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,080
Speaker 1: what big law can be because of a more just world.

243
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: Only happens by design.

244
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 2: I got a phone call and they asked if I

245
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 2: could come in for more questioning. I thought I was

246
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 2: helping them, so I just went in freely without a lawyer.

247
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,679
Speaker 2: Biggest mistake in my.

248
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: Life at this point, with the certainty of most of

249
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,559
Speaker 1: the medical establishment behind them, the lead detective, Kenneth Kroll,

250
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 1: interrogated you and let's face it. He had a clear agenda.

251
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,160
Speaker 2: The interview goes in steps, which I found out later

252
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 2: at the evidentiary hearing when Kenneth Crow explained it. First,

253
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 2: they try to just be your friend, and they told me,

254
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, if you heard her, you could tell us.

255
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 2: You'll just have to go to parenting classes. I said, no,

256
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 2: I did not do anything to her. I helped her.

257
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 2: And then he said, show me with this bear. So

258
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 2: he gave me a teddy bear and I had to

259
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 2: show him the steps of everything I did, precautionary wise

260
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 2: to see what was wrong with her. And then he

261
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,680
Speaker 2: told me I could keep the bear. I don't know

262
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 2: why I didn't want the bear. Then he leaves me

263
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 2: in the room. They both do for a long time.

264
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,880
Speaker 2: They do that so you can think about things and

265
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,560
Speaker 2: get stressed. So I sat there and when they came back,

266
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 2: they told me they talked to a doctor and that

267
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 2: she had a skull fracture, which she never had a

268
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,040
Speaker 2: skull fracture. They completely lied to me, and I said,

269
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 2: there's no way she has that. I was with her

270
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 2: the entire time. She never fell. And I was crying

271
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,199
Speaker 2: by that time because then I felt like they were

272
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,520
Speaker 2: trying to say I did something, and they kept going

273
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 2: at it and going at it, and I kept crying

274
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 2: and insisting no, and I think they used things that

275
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 2: I said against me later they tried to turn the

276
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 2: around that I said. So that's how the interrogation went right.

277
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: Not only were they lying to you in order to

278
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,839
Speaker 1: try to extract the false confession, but then they skewed

279
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 1: the innocent things that you had said, in particularly that

280
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,960
Speaker 1: you had given iz eight quote slight shake.

281
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 3: So as you know that Jenny did not confess to

282
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 3: shaking the baby, even though they tried to treat it

283
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 3: as a confession in her trial, and the detective noted

284
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 3: that the demonstration with the bear or the doll or

285
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 3: whatever it was was a very minor, slight shake. But

286
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 3: in the grand jury when they were getting Jennifer and dighted,

287
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 3: they put in evidence that, you know, the kind of

288
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 3: shaking necessary to hurt a baby like this would be,

289
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 3: you know, extremely vigorous and progressive shaking. And then they said,

290
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 3: did Jenny admit that she shook the baby? Answer yes,

291
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 3: without any reference to the amount of force of the

292
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 3: shake or that it was a very minor shake.

293
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 1: So Jenny, that was February eleventh, two thousand and three,

294
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 1: when you were indicted for aggravated battery of a child,

295
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 1: which potentially could put you in prison for sa to

296
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 1: thirty years, and you spent a long night in jail

297
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,680
Speaker 1: before bonding out, and your family and Cleanne put together

298
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 1: the retainer for your attorney.

299
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 2: So for the next year, I had to take care

300
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 2: of my children and know that I could go away

301
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 2: for six to thirty years. So that's why I lived

302
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 2: my life every day. The library was so supportive of

303
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,000
Speaker 2: me that they paid me for I believe two to

304
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 2: four months after this happened, but I was not allowed

305
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,720
Speaker 2: to work there because it was a public place. I

306
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,600
Speaker 2: also was told by my son's school, who was also

307
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 2: my daughter's school back in the day, that I was

308
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 2: not allowed to come on the property anymore. So I

309
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 2: had to pull them out of school because I was

310
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 2: on the front page of the town newspapers like I

311
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 2: heard a baby.

312
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Iz had been released to the care of her

313
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 1: parents and some home healthcare workers, but she was never

314
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: expected to recover, and she finally passed away tragically on

315
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 1: November ninth, two thousand and three, and the autopsy was

316
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 1: performed by a doctor Jeff Harki, who became critical to

317
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 1: your defense. Actually, later on in the case.

318
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 3: Doctor Harky performs the autopsy, he does brain sectioning, these

319
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 3: other things, notably, you know, he says he looked for fractures,

320
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 3: of course, and didn't find any. By that more in time,

321
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 3: they wouldn't have been any bruising to look forward, because

322
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 3: it's almost a year after the baby first collapsed.

323
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 1: Right, Instead of relying on a fuller picture of the

324
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 1: child's health from earlier medical records and the CT scans

325
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,840
Speaker 1: and radiology from December twenty seven, two thousand and two,

326
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,680
Speaker 1: a lot of his autopsy report relied on the reports

327
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 1: of the state's eventual star witness at trial, doctor Emily Flaherty.

328
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 3: And so eventually he just essentially adopts those findings that

329
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 3: it was shaking baby Siner more abusive head trauma. Another

330
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 3: critical piece that I really can't get out of my

331
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 3: mind is despite doctor Flaherty knowing of the old brain

332
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 3: bleed the chronics of berylhematoma, she never mentions that in

333
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 3: her report to the corner. It's obviously a critically important

334
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,400
Speaker 3: issue of the case. I mean, she's not supposed to

335
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 3: be writing a report saying the things that support what

336
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 3: she thinks because she thinks of shake a baby syndrome.

337
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 3: She's supposed to put in all the important medical findings,

338
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 3: but she left that out and as a result, Harkey

339
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 3: didn't know about it, and so he calls it a homicide.

340
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,679
Speaker 3: He has since said, if I knew there was this

341
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 3: old bring blead, I would not have called it a homicide.

342
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 1: Right to his credit, he was skeptical of the SBS

343
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,640
Speaker 1: hypothesis even back then, but based on Flarerty's selective reporting

344
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,400
Speaker 1: of IS's condition, he wrote in his autopsy report, quote

345
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 1: multiple organ failure due to anoxic ischemic injuries due to

346
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: abusive head trauma unquote or AHT, and he continued on,

347
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 1: quote AHT occurred ten to eleven months prior unquote. So

348
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,680
Speaker 1: I mean, looking at IS's body, which had lived, healed

349
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 1: and then died, how the world does he know of

350
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: the condition of the body ten to eleven months earlier.

351
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 3: He knows it based on doctor Flaherty's report.

352
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,640
Speaker 1: He also noted no external injuries or trauma, as did

353
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,639
Speaker 1: doctor Flaherty, which should have been an important red flag.

354
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,919
Speaker 3: Experts like doctor Flaherty do not think that's important They

355
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 3: literally do not think it's important as to whether there

356
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 3: is bruising or even a red mark on a baby

357
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 3: who they say is shaken with such force that passerbys

358
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,359
Speaker 3: would know that serious injury was being done to the child.

359
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 3: They think it doesn't even leave a mark, but have

360
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 3: no explanation for the common sense question of well why

361
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 3: wouldn't it.

362
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, we're talking about an adult aggressively

363
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 1: gripping and shaking a child. Anyone would expect to see

364
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 1: some bruising, probably some significant bruising at the site of

365
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,479
Speaker 1: the alleged gripping. Right. Nevertheless, they had their declaration that

366
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: this was a homicide and wrenched up the charge to

367
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: first degree murder. Oh my god. In April of two

368
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: thousand and four, do you remember when you got that news, Jenny.

369
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 2: I was making breakfast for my children, trying to live

370
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 2: a normal life. I was working at Target by this time,

371
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 2: and got a call from my lawyer.

372
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 1: Chuck Chuck Is Charles Brett's your trial attorney.

373
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 2: I was sitting in my kitchen with my kids trying

374
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: to eat breakfast when you call me. So I had

375
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 2: to absorb all that and not react because my kids

376
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,120
Speaker 2: were there. And I was trying to just have them

377
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,919
Speaker 2: live a normal life, even though I was terrified.

378
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: So you surrendered yourself and your parents bonded you out.

379
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,120
Speaker 1: As trial approached in February of two thousand and five,

380
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: and rather than going in front of a jury, you

381
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,120
Speaker 1: chose to have your case heard by Judge Carla Alessio polychondriotes. Now,

382
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: what made you opt for a bench trial over a jury?

383
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 1: Most lawyers are almost always opposed to that.

384
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 2: If you pull people off the street, they're not going

385
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 2: to understand all this medical the brain bleeds, the colors.

386
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,880
Speaker 2: I just didn't feel they would comprehend all of that.

387
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,159
Speaker 2: And I've thought a judge was smarter and wiser and

388
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 2: would understand the medical facts, because I thought that's what

389
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 2: they needed to focus on here. But they didn't in

390
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 2: my opinion.

391
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 3: So you know, they presented the family members of Isazi,

392
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: they presented some of the treating physicians. They presented the

393
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 3: testimony of Detective Kroll, who put in this supposed confession.

394
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: Right the interrogation in which she said quote slight shake,

395
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: which was good enough for their trickery at the grand

396
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: jury to get an indictment. But even Detective Kroll had

397
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: written in his report that Jenny never confessed to shaking

398
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 1: the baby.

399
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 3: But the most important thing they presented was doctor Flaherty.

400
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 3: I'm K.

401
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 4: Judson, the executive director of the Center for Integrity and

402
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 4: Forensic Sciences. In the case of Jenny del Prete, when

403
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 4: the infant I was admitted to the hospital, scans revealed

404
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 4: old and new bleeding within the coverings of the brain.

405
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 4: Those earlier bleeds and their cause were not discovered or

406
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 4: diagnosed prior to her collapse. Like many doctors at that time,

407
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 4: doctor Flaherty believed that subdural hemorrhages indicated child abuse. Then

408
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,239
Speaker 4: when blood appeared in IS's retinas several days later, that

409
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 4: served to confirm doctor Flaherty's beliefs. When she testified at trial,

410
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 4: she said that those retinal hemorrhages can only happen in

411
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 4: the case of an acceleration deceleration injury like violent shaking,

412
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 4: When we now know that those findings can occur through

413
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 4: shortfalls or underlying medical issues. I already had a history

414
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 4: of general unexplained discomfort and seizure activity in just four

415
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 4: months of life. In addition, her head circumference had expanded

416
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 4: from the fiftieth to the ninetieth percentile in just ten weeks.

417
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 4: Rapid growth like this is unusual and can predispose a

418
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 4: child to bleeding within the coverings of the brain or

419
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 4: signal other problems. It's why that growth is monitored in

420
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 4: the first place. However, none of this information was considered

421
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 4: by the doctors who examined iz. Doctor Flaherty went on

422
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 4: to say that in addition to subdural hematoma, subarachnoid hemorrhages,

423
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 4: and diffuse injuries, there were parentamal lacerations and contusions. However,

424
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 4: those injuries were not present, and no other doctor ever

425
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 4: corroborated that claim.

426
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 3: I mean she gave what we know is medically wrong

427
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: in accurate testimony. There were no lacerations or contusions, as

428
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: confirmed by all the radiology and the autopsy.

429
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: So not only did she entirely omit the existence of

430
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: the older brain bleed from her reporting and ultimate conclusions,

431
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: which then misled doctor Harkey in his autopsy report, but

432
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: also now she's making up internal injuries that don't exist,

433
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: all while ignoring the complete and total lack of injuries

434
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: you would expect to see on the baby's chest where

435
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 1: an adult would have had to have gripped the child.

436
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: But the doctor said, it's pretty uncommon to find bruising

437
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: in a case of shaking baby syndrome.

438
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 3: That's like saying it's uncommon to find bruising in boxing

439
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 3: or football, Like, oh, really, so.

440
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: I just referenced doctor Harky, who, unbeknownst to the defense,

441
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: was not exactly a proponent of the SBS hypothesis, although

442
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: he's still at least as was evidence in his testimony,

443
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: he still agreed that it was a valid theory. What

444
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: did he say a trial?

445
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: He essentially mirrored doctor Flaherty's conclusions at the trial, but

446
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: because his questioning of shaking baby cinder min this case

447
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 3: was hidden from the defense, and because his conclusion seemed

448
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 3: so straightforwardly consistent with doctor Flaherty, they didn't know there

449
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 3: was any reason to ask him about these kinds of things.

450
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: And to combat the state's witnesses, Jenny's attorney put on

451
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: an expert in pathology and pediatrics, doctor Wayne Tucker, who

452
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 1: certainly did a more thorough assessment than doctor Harkey. In

453
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: addition to Flarerity's report, he reviewed the medical records, the

454
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: initial CT scans and radiology, police and paramedic reports, pictures

455
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: and the autopsy, and he testified that the gas drops

456
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: in conjunction with amoxicillin can cause seizures. He then concluded

457
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: that IS's CT scan revealed acute and chronic brain bleed,

458
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: as well as saying that he never saw an SBS

459
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: case without bruising, and that IS's injuries occurred eighteen to

460
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: twenty four hours before her collapse.

461
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was at home.

462
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 3: Yes, doctor Tucker did know about the old brain bleed

463
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 3: but didn't date it properly. The reality is it could

464
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: have happened two or three weeks before the baby collapsed

465
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 3: at day care, and doctor Tucker's essentially said that it

466
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 3: was not shaking baby syndrome in a nutshell.

467
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: So then it just comes down to who the judge

468
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: believed on timing more, the state's four consistent experts or

469
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: the one dissenting expert, doctor Tucker. So despite glowing character witnesses,

470
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: including your coworkers, who corroborated IS's history of discomfort, to

471
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: put it moldly, Judge Polychondriodes ultimately sided with the state's experts.

472
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: You look at me, and you look at baby Iz,

473
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: and of course you're going to have heartfelt emotions and

474
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: feel sorry for her. Who wouldn't, so of course you're

475
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: going to lean towards that. If she had not said guilty,

476
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: I feel like she would have too much pressure. She

477
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: didn't want to deal with that.

478
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: And that was March fourth, two thousand and you were

479
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: sentenced to twenty years in prison.

480
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: So March fourth was a horrible day for me. I

481
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 2: dropped my son off at my best friend's house. It

482
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 2: was eight almost state told them I'd be back later

483
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: and never came back. My daughter was at a high

484
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 2: school sleepover function. I was supposed to be there for

485
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: Sunday Family Day and instead the day I was convicted

486
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 2: was a Friday, so it was not a good day.

487
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: And then they took me in a room in the back,

488
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: took off my blazer because they don't want you to

489
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 2: kill yourself, so they take off your loose clothes that

490
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: you can hang yourself with. I guess, and I could

491
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: hear all my family crying. I just I did not

492
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: want to live, so I went into shock by the

493
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: time I got to the jail, and I literally fell

494
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: down in the room and I just remember laying there

495
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: in this room and there were officers that came. They

496
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 2: were all around me and I could see their boots

497
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: because I was laying there. And I remember when officers said,

498
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 2: what's wrong with her? The other officers said reality that

499
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: they were just sitting there laughing. So that was my

500
00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: March fourth. I went into medical for two months. I

501
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't eat or talk. My family came to visit me.

502
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: I ended up gathering enough strength to live in medical.

503
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: I didn't want to go to General Pop. And I

504
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: wrote my son a book for his eighth birthday with

505
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: a two inch pencil, and I sent it home so

506
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 2: they could type it out and create a book for him.

507
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: And when they came to visit, my daughter smuggled the

508
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: book in the jail so that he could open it

509
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: in front of me. And that was my son's birthday.

510
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 2: Behind plate glass. I finally had enough streth to go

511
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: down to General Pop and I became a tutor and

512
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: I taught women general math and reading skills for a

513
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: long time with a nice nun networked there for the prison,

514
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: named Sister Vivian. Helped me live a better life than

515
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: sitting in a room. She helped me have some motivation

516
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: in there, gave me a purpose and I focused on

517
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: constantly connecting with my children through phone calls and phone

518
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: calls which cost tons of money, so we had to

519
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: do a lot of fundraising at home, and the community

520
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: in Willow Springs and Hickory Hills and Bridge View, they

521
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: just immensely helped me for the whole time, and even

522
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: the church there gave me ten thousand dollars for my lawyer.

523
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: They believed it me too, and we just did the

524
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: first appeal. The first appeal got denied. I honestly thought

525
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 2: I'd be in there for about a year and I'd

526
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: be home. I never thought in a million years it

527
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: would take this long.

528
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: And your initial appeal was based on the fact that

529
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: there was insufficient evidence to convict you.

530
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 3: Insufficiency of evidence claims are very difficult to win on

531
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: appeal because there's a very high standard of review, and

532
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 3: by this point in time, the questioning of shaken baby

533
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 3: syndrome and the legal community was building, but it was

534
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 3: not at the state that it is today.

535
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: Right, the first case to even win on the overwhelming

536
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: doubt in the SBS hypothesis was a Wisconsin case, Audrey Edmonds,

537
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: who we are actually going to have on the show

538
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: in a few weeks, but her case didn't come undone

539
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: until two thousand and eight. And here it was in

540
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven in Illinois where your state appeals

541
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: had been denied, first on the insufficient evidence claim and

542
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: later on the ineffective assistance of counsel that you filed

543
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: with a new appellated attorney, Tom Bradstraighter.

544
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: Tom brad Straighter stated somewhere in an interview that he

545
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: is to stay up all night. He couldn't sleep after

546
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: this case. He just felt like something was not right,

547
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: and he in thirty years of practice, this case bothered him.

548
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: The most, and his frustration led him to refer you

549
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: to the Northwestern School of Journalism Medil Innocence Project, and

550
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: those students later made a huge discovery at just the

551
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: right time. But for now, Europe moved on to federal

552
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: court in twenty ten with Pat at Blagen and Garvey.

553
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: So Jenny initially got put in contact with my law

554
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: partner and wife, Jody Garvey, who sort of specializes in

555
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: appeal post conviction and federal habeas corpus work. You know,

556
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: the thing that started us down the road of getting

557
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: Jenny's conviction overturned was my wife's brilliant idea to raise

558
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: the issue of the trial lawyer did not challenge shaken

559
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 3: baby syndrome under Daubert, meaning the case that says, hey,

560
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: scientific evidence has to be sufficiently accepted in order to

561
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: be admitted in court, and no Illinois case had ever

562
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: said that shake and baby syndrome does not meet the qualifications.

563
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: Of Daubert and Daubert, of course, is the nineteen ninety

564
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: three Supreme Court decision which allowed courts to be gatekeepers

565
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: of what is relevant and reliable expert testimony. So the

566
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: aim was to raise in federal court this issue that

567
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: had not been raised in state court, which is typically

568
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: not allowed. The procedurally defaulted.

569
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: Jody had this brilliant idea because one way to get

570
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: an evidentiary hearing in the federal court is if you

571
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: can establish what's called actual innocence. That means you get

572
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: to raise in the federal court issues that you had

573
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: never raised below.

574
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: And so by establishing actual innocence, you could get an

575
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing in federal court. And for the first time

576
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: in Illinois challenged the reliability of the SBS hypothesis.

577
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: And it worked. That's what got us the hearing which

578
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: brought all of this bad science is garbage testimony to light.

579
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: We drew Judge Connelly, who was a very intelligent judge,

580
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: and that was the first step towards Jenny's case getting reversed.

581
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: So this evidentiary hearing in front of Judge Connelly happened

582
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: in December twenty twelve through January twenty thirteen, in which

583
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: over the course of nine days, a number of experts

584
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: testified for the defense, this time including doctor Patrick Barnes,

585
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: who said that Isz's first CT scan depicted a dark

586
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: band between the infant skull and the frontal lobe of

587
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: her brain, which he said constituted old collections fluid. He

588
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: stated further that those chronic collections were at least two

589
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: to three weeks old, but could have existed since birth.

590
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: Barnes said that cortical venus thrombosis or CVT was a

591
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: likely cause of Isa's brain abnormalities. Also, a biomechanical engineer,

592
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Prang, testified.

593
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: So what doctor Prang and others in that field say,

594
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: and it's undisputed now by the other side to things one,

595
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: there has never been any threshold yet established for how

596
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: hard you have to shake a baby supposedly to tear

597
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 3: the bridging veanes, which is what the shaking baby proponents

598
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 3: say is the real injury. Right, You tear the bridging

599
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: blanes and a bunch of blood leaks into the subgirl space.

600
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: So that's important fact number one. Important Fact number two,

601
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: which undercuts years and years of testimony by shaken baby experts,

602
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: is that biomechanical engineers proved with studies that shortfalls and

603
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: especially to a hard surface, creates much more force than

604
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: any shaking back and forth can do. So that's one

605
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: of the things that caused the shaken baby proponents to

606
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: change the name from shaking baby to abusive head trauma.

607
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: And it now causes some of them to say things like, well,

608
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: I think the baby was shaken and then maybe thrown

609
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: on the floor or thrown onto a couch or something.

610
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: And there were even more defense experts, four more in fact,

611
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: including doctors Patrick Lance, Joseph Scheller, Jan Leetzma, and Shahgutis.

612
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: They were fantastic, They put in countless hours and all

613
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: of them telling the truth. They get cross examined for like, oh,

614
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 3: you're doing this for money, or you're doing this for

615
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: some other reason utter nonsense. As Judge Kennelly found in

616
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: his ruling, they weren't biased at all, They were just

617
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: questioning what clearly was unsound science and unsound medicine.

618
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems at least one of the experts

619
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: called by the prosecution had by now come to similar conclusions,

620
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: a biomechanical expert, doctor Rannggarajuan, who said, quote the science

621
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: of biomechanics could not determine the cause of IS's injuries

622
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: and the threshold necessary to produce head injuries in infants

623
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: end quote. So the state's case was imploding and continued

624
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: to do so. There was also another state expert at

625
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: doctor Rouric Adams, who was on the stand trying to

626
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: conduct a demonstration about the injuries on the brain while

627
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: holding the photo of the brain upside down and drawing

628
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: erroneous conclusions. It was just a disaster all around for

629
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: the state and it was about to get worse. As

630
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, the students at the Medill Innocents Project

631
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: were also investigating this case. They had done a Freedom

632
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: of Information Act request from the Romeo LPD, which gave

633
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: way to a treasure trove of documents that had never

634
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: been provided to any prior council.

635
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: They were all assigned to different packs, different piles of

636
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: transcripts to go through. And Alex Hampel was a student

637
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: in his twenties at the time. He had his pile

638
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: of papers and he found the letter.

639
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: It's really like a memo that Kroll wrote, but we

640
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 3: call it the Kroll letter. And just to summarize the

641
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: Kroll letter is Kroll memorializing that doctor Harkey had expressed

642
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: doubts that this was shaking baby syndrome, and of course

643
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: therefore expressed doubts that this was a homicide. And from

644
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: then on we knew we had a very strong Brady claim.

645
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to quote from this memo from

646
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: Detective Croll to doctor Flaherty right after doctor Harky performed

647
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: the autopsy. Quote, I'm writing to inform you of a

648
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: twist in our case. The pathologist does not agree with SBS.

649
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: A Plainfield Police evidence tech who was president at the autopsy,

650
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: advised that doctor Harky did, in fact question the diagnosis

651
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: of SBS. Looked for fractures in the ribcage and found none.

652
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: Doctor Harkey intends to summon all of IS's medical records

653
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: to see who determined this was SBS. Please call me

654
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: when you have a few minutes to discuss the case, unquote.

655
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: And I've got to imagine that that phone call involved

656
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: some sort of a plan to keep their prosecution on track.

657
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: If Alex Hample didn't see that letter, and I wouldn't

658
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: be sitting here right now. So I give him a

659
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: lot of thanks, and it's like an angel to me.

660
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: So the hearings were reopened in June twenty thirteen, and

661
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: from what I've read, Flaherty and Kroll were bending over

662
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: backwards to cover their asses with the I do not

663
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: recalls that they kept repeating on the stand.

664
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: They recalled it was their safe, safe answer.

665
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: So ultimately, thankfully, Judge Connelly saw through the farce of

666
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: the SBS hypothesis and granted you a new trial, and

667
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: you were released on bond on April thirtieth, twenty fourteen,

668
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: released in this sort of limbo to await a potential retrial.

669
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 3: Correct.

670
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: It was a wonderful day, But then I had to

671
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: I wasn't really free. I couldn't leave the state. I

672
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 2: missed my brother's wedding in California because the judge wouldn't

673
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 2: let me go. I missed all my nieces and nephews

674
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: births except for one. It's hard to find work, and

675
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: that was still they were talking about a retrial, so

676
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: I was going to go through the whole nightmare over again.

677
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: So your team filed successive post conviction motions in state

678
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: court citing the clear and super relevant Brady material that

679
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: Kroll letter, and after initial denial, the appellate court forced

680
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: hearing and which your trial judge vacated your conviction and

681
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: ordered a new trial in May twenty sixteen. And at

682
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: this point the challenges to SBS prosecutions were continuing to build,

683
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: while fewer and fewer doctors were willing to support this

684
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: faulty hypothesis, although clearly there were still many left for

685
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: the state to scrounge up. While they dragged this along

686
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: for over six long years.

687
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: I felt like Will County just could not admit, okay,

688
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: we were wrong. They just were not going to do that.

689
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: They were going to fight it to the end.

690
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: So finally we come to the fateful day of October fifth,

691
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two.

692
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: I had gotten their expert report, I think the evening

693
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 3: before that, this new expert report from Bennett.

694
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: And doctor Bennett was the state's new pathologist. So what

695
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: did this report say?

696
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 3: The report was certainty, not confident at all that there

697
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 3: was even a homicide here, and was sort of like in, well,

698
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 3: if this and if that, then maybe you could conclude this,

699
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: which is not really the level of certainty needed to

700
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 3: advance a crime. But I remember reading it thinking, I

701
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 3: don't know how they're going to prove their case after this,

702
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 3: and I'm going to have to talk to the prosecutor

703
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 3: about this tomorrow morning because this is ridiculous. The prosecutor

704
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 3: texted me while I was driving to Joliette, said Hey,

705
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 3: I need to talk to you before court, and she

706
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 3: was waiting for me in the lobby, meaning like downstairs,

707
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 3: not even near the north the courtroom.

708
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 2: So we were just outside in the lobby in front

709
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: of the courtroom and Pat came over and told me

710
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: and my Dadad they were dropping all charges and dismissing

711
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: the case, and I just cried. I said, finally, finally,

712
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: I remember saying that, and then I had to maintain

713
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: my composure because we had to go into court and

714
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: put it on record. The judge had no idea and

715
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: I was kind of overjoyed. I wanted to go skip

716
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: up and I didn't just maintain my composure, and the

717
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: state told her the judge, and the judge looked at

718
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 2: me like she was shocked, and I said, I know,

719
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: I said, hallelujah. I didn't know what else to say. It

720
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: just came out and I cried, and the judge said

721
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: congrats and good luck to you, and gave me a

722
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: box of tissue, and that was it. It was over.

723
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: We understand that you're currently litigating a civil suit. Obviously, nothing,

724
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: no amount of money, could ever make up for what

725
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: you lost, but we do hope that there's some semblance

726
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: of justice is delivered. Do you have anything in the

727
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: meantime that you'd like to ask of our audience, any

728
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: action they could take.

729
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: I would advise to always have be on camera if

730
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: you're taking care of someone's child, if you have to

731
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: get your own, get a nanny cam, your phone on,

732
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: and just have enough camera on all times, because then

733
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 2: you would never have to go through this if you

734
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: had proof. So that is a huge thing that I

735
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 2: would like to go fight to pass a law.

736
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: Jennifer, thank you for that great advice. And now that

737
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: brings us to my favorite part of the show, closing arguments.

738
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: And closing arguments works like this. I'm going to first

739
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: of all, thank each of you for being here and

740
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: helping walk us through this insane saga. It's so important

741
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: and so meaningful, and I tell you how much we

742
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: all appreciate it. And then I'm going to turn my

743
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: mic off, kick back in my chair and just listen

744
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: for anything else you want to say.

745
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I really wish there were an institutional way

746
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 3: in the law to get these kind of exoneration claims,

747
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: these you know, innocence claims done faster. You know it is,

748
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: as Jenny has expressed, it is unbelievably traumatic. And I

749
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 3: would urge well meaning doctors, you are doing good work,

750
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: and you do see a lot of children who are

751
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 3: actually harmed and abused, But don't let those thoughts overcome

752
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: your logic and your sense of what's right and wrong.

753
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 3: When you're looking at these shaking babysitroom cases, you think

754
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 3: you're not diagnosing murder. But when you're coming into court

755
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 3: and you're saying these things with such certainty, that's what

756
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 3: you're causing to happen. Here. The medical community does need

757
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: to focus more on evidence based science and not express

758
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: such certainty about things that you know you're not certain about.

759
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 2: So I just want to address a couple of things.

760
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: What happened to me affected a lot of people, and

761
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 2: my kids lost me for the time they needed me most.

762
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: My son became an emotional cutter. He scarred from his

763
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: shoulders all the way down to his legs. My daughter

764
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: went through her Niamesh surgery while I was gone. She

765
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: didn't have me there. She ended up in a wheelchair.

766
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: She's overcome that now and doing great, just first place

767
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: skateboarder in the world. But when people go in jail,

768
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 2: the family goes to jail too, not just a person.

769
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: I think it's sad that people in a high stature

770
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: job like a doctor or an officer detective wouldn't do

771
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: their job I protocol, and would alter things just to

772
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: close somebody's case, just to throw somebody in prison. We're

773
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: in America and we're supposed to be safe. We're supposed

774
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: to believe in justice for all, and I took me

775
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: forever to get justice. I know plenty of people in

776
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: prison that ended their lives they couldn't handle, and I

777
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: considered it once, but I thought about my kids and

778
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: my family, and that love that I had from them

779
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: was enough to get me through that moment not to

780
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: do it, and there was more than one. I'm very

781
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 2: sad about what happened to is she was someone I

782
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 2: cared for and I generally loved, and I'm very sad

783
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 2: for the family. But I'm also sad that they didn't

784
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 2: believe in me enough, very hurt by that because everybody else,

785
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 2: everybody else believed in me. So I just I'm grateful

786
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: that I had the strength and the support that I had,

787
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 2: and the attorneys that I had, and the judges that

788
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: I had, except for Judge Goodie, I'm very grateful I

789
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: had all of them, because I don't think I could

790
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 2: have done this. I got here to now. I spent

791
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: nine years, one month, and twenty six days in a

792
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: place was full of misery. So now I know all

793
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 2: kinds of things. I know about prison travesties in there,

794
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 2: how inmates are treated, and now if I'm alive long enough,

795
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: I could fight for some of these things to be changed,

796
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: and that's my plan, especially the daycare camera think. So

797
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: I just I'm grateful, and I'm also ashamed to live

798
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: in a place and we say justice for all, but

799
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: you have to fight for that justice. It's not just

800
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: handed to you. And you're not innocent till priven guilty.

801
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: You're guilty until proven innocent. I'm just grateful I can

802
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 2: talk about it now and I survived it, and I

803
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: can educate and hopefully help a lot of people. That's

804
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: my goal for the rest of my life.

805
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I want to

806
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: thank our production team, Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, Lyla Robinson,

807
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Warris. The music in this production

808
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

809
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

810
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

811
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

812
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both

813
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason Vlahm. Ravel Conviction is

814
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with

815
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: Signal Company Number one