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Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the other side of this election. I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you, but, boy, since Joe Biden and

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris were elected, I've gotten so many texts and

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Speaker 1: emails and phone calls that are full of joy and

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Speaker 1: hope and just good old fashioned relief. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to try to figure out about this election.

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Speaker 1: Who turned out in record numbers, where what they had

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Speaker 1: to overcome to do that, really what all of it

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Speaker 1: means for our president elect and for our democracy. So

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Speaker 1: for help trying to figure it out, I'm checking in

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Speaker 1: with three fantastic guests today. We have Ari Berman, a

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Speaker 1: journalist who has written extensively about voting rights and voter

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Speaker 1: suppression in this country. We'll also here from journalists Solida O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: who has a really focused view of what the press

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Speaker 1: has to do better in order to cover politics and elections.

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Speaker 1: But first, I wanted to check in with someone who's

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of much deserved gratitude right now for

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Speaker 1: her role in Georgia, Stacy Abrams. You may remember that

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Speaker 1: Stacy ran for governor in eighteen. I think it's absolutely

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Speaker 1: fair to say that the election was taken from her

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Speaker 1: because of all the shenanigans to prevent people from registering,

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Speaker 1: prevent them from voting, make voting really difficult. But she

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Speaker 1: never quit. She just went back to work organizing and

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Speaker 1: speaking out about what needs to be done to help

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Speaker 1: our democracy thrive. And while we saw it in action

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Speaker 1: as Georgia turned blue, I just want to add my

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Speaker 1: voice to the chorus and say thank you, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you, not just for coming back on the podcast

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Speaker 1: post election, but for everything you did to help Georgia

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Speaker 1: turn blue and help so many people across the country

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Speaker 1: have the energy to keep going. So on a scale

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Speaker 1: of like one to ten, Stacy, how excited are you,

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Speaker 1: I believe infinity is a number technically. I mean, look this,

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Speaker 1: this is extraordinary. It's as you know, it's been a

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Speaker 1: project I've been working on for a decade with so

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Speaker 1: many other folks, really trying to build an infrastructure, raise

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Speaker 1: the resources, and make certain that people did the investment.

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Speaker 1: We have been able to finally bring all those pieces together.

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Speaker 1: And I do not believe there's a new Americal scale. Hallellujah,

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Speaker 1: exactly Hallelujah. When I think about the work that went

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Speaker 1: into it, I have to just pause and say, this

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Speaker 1: was truly an act of faith. You believed in the

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Speaker 1: potential for George to have an election that would empower

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Speaker 1: people to vote, that would give them a stake in

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Speaker 1: their vote, and it's so exciting to see all that

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Speaker 1: hard work pay off. What were some of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why decades ago you started thinking about this and then

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Speaker 1: you know, moving forward made it a real priority. Well,

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Speaker 1: as you know, I am a daughter of the South.

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Speaker 1: I was born in Wisconsin, but I grew up in Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: I came of age in Georgia. I went to grad

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Speaker 1: school in Texas, went to law school at our alma

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Speaker 1: mater in the northeast at Yale. I came back South

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Speaker 1: as soon as seemingly possible because I don't like cold weather.

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Speaker 1: And when I got back to Georgia, we were going

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Speaker 1: through both of political realignment with Republicans taking over, but

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Speaker 1: we were also going through a demographic realignment that was

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Speaker 1: just taking off. And by the time I joined the

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Speaker 1: legislature in two thousand and six, when I became leader

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Speaker 1: in I was deeply aware of the possibilities but also

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Speaker 1: the obstacle. And so I actually put together a twenty

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Speaker 1: one page deck when I became leader, where I laid out,

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Speaker 1: here's the growth strategy for Georgia Democrats from and I

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Speaker 1: would take that deck with me, and I paid for

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Speaker 1: my plane ticket and went to see investors around the

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Speaker 1: country who weren't going to give us no money. But

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Speaker 1: I'm like, look, you're not gonna give me anything now,

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Speaker 1: but I want to introduce myself and tell you about

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Speaker 1: my plan. So when I come back, you'll do it.

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Speaker 1: And I did it again and again, and and I

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Speaker 1: want to give credit to so many other people who

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Speaker 1: did this work. I think that the distinction was that

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Speaker 1: for me, it was about thinking about how do you

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Speaker 1: build the infrastructure. So it didn't matter who the candidate was,

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Speaker 1: It didn't matter who was doing the work, as long

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Speaker 1: as there was a structure so people could pour in

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Speaker 1: and we had the money we needed. And so over

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Speaker 1: time we were able to raise millions of dollars. And

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Speaker 1: I've become a really good beggar, and we've been able

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Speaker 1: to raise money for voter registration, for voter engagement, for

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Speaker 1: voter turnout, but also training and recruiting young people to

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Speaker 1: become involved in the party, building policy potential, thinking about

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Speaker 1: the holistic notion of what it means to be a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: not just winning elections, but how do you win hearts, minds,

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Speaker 1: and how do you build sustainability. So it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: who's doing it, all of us are moving in the

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Speaker 1: same direction, and it came to fruition in this election.

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Speaker 1: But we can't forget that George has got two really

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Speaker 1: important consequential Senate races coming up. They've gone to a runoff,

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Speaker 1: and this election will be held in January, and actually

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Speaker 1: it's going to determine whether President elect Biden will as

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Speaker 1: president have a majority in the Senate so that they

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Speaker 1: can get things done that will actually improve people's lives.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about those two races. What can our listeners

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Speaker 1: do to help the candidates win. Be part of continuing

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Speaker 1: the Georgia movement that works so well in the presidential

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Speaker 1: election and actually helped to propel both of our candidates

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Speaker 1: into a runoff. I privileged to be friends with both candidates.

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Speaker 1: John Assoff, who is in the race against David Purdue,

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Speaker 1: who has just proven himself to be corrupt both intellectually

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Speaker 1: and economically, someone who put his profits above the lives

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Speaker 1: of people. Q and on Kelly Leffler, who has decided

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Speaker 1: to abandon all principles and side with conspiracy theorists, and

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Speaker 1: who also decided that money was more important than the

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Speaker 1: mission she was supposed to have, which is serving Georgians.

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Speaker 1: She is running against Raffael Warnock, the pastor of ebenez

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Speaker 1: Or Baptist Church. Reverend Warnock and I've been friends for

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Speaker 1: fifteen years and he was actually one of my partners

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Speaker 1: in the New Georgia product when we started registering voters.

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Speaker 1: Those two races are both essential in their own right,

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Speaker 1: and they are working together, which is so critical. So

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Speaker 1: the three things that need folks to do. One go

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Speaker 1: to g a Senate dot Com. That way you can

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Speaker 1: contribute to both candidates and to the work we're doing.

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Speaker 1: The Fair Fight to protect the vote. Republicans noticed that

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Speaker 1: we had an incredible infrastructure for oor turn out and

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Speaker 1: for getting those ballots in. I have no reason to

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Speaker 1: believe they're going to let it continue the way it is,

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Speaker 1: so we need the resources so we can fight back

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Speaker 1: and protect the right to vote. Number two to fair

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Speaker 1: Fight Action dot Com, you can sign up to be

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Speaker 1: a volunteer. We will help deploy you and direct you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we need everyone's help. Not everyone needs to come to Georgia,

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Speaker 1: but everyone needs to pour into Georgia, and so we'll

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Speaker 1: be able to connect you to volunteer opportunities. And the

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Speaker 1: number three, reach out to anyone you know who is

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Speaker 1: in Georgia, near Georgia, bin to Georgia, can spell Georgia

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Speaker 1: and just let them know how important is election is.

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Speaker 1: We have the chance to fix America. Yeah, just a small,

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Speaker 1: you know, step in the development of mankind and womankind.

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Speaker 1: We can fix Georgia. We can fix and we can

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Speaker 1: fix America. Look, we can have access to healthcare, access

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Speaker 1: to justice, and access to jobs. Those are the three

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Speaker 1: things that are most essential. These are the two men

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Speaker 1: who will get it done if we do our part

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Speaker 1: and we don't relax, we don't relent, and we do

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Speaker 1: everything we can to push them over the finish line.

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Speaker 1: On January, Well, I think all of us are going

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Speaker 1: to be following your lead once again, because we have,

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Speaker 1: you know, a few short weeks to try to continue

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Speaker 1: this positive movement that Georgia has demonstrated. You know, Stacy,

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Speaker 1: I know how busy you are you've been, you know,

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Speaker 1: rallying the troops, thanking people for everything that they've done.

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Speaker 1: Have you had a minute just to sit back and

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Speaker 1: take it in, put your feet up, relax at all?

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Speaker 1: I think I have like fourteen minutes on Sunday. But look,

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Speaker 1: we got some work to do. We got work to do.

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Speaker 1: You're a woman after my own heart. Stacy Abrahams love

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Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you for everything. Thank you, Secretary.

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Speaker 1: As we heard from Stacy, our works not done yet,

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Speaker 1: and all eyes are on Georgia. So if you want

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Speaker 1: to pitch in visit elect John that's j O N

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's j o N dot com. And Warnock

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Speaker 1: for Georgia dot com. That's Warnock w A R N

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Speaker 1: O c K. You've probably seen Ari Berman on MSNBC,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you've heard his voice on NPR or read

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Speaker 1: his writings and Mother Jones and other publications, because he

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Speaker 1: is a senior reporter for Mother Jones and the author

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Speaker 1: of the book Give Us the Ballot, The Modern Struggle

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Speaker 1: for Voting Rights in America. Ari Berman, Hey, Secretary Clinton,

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Speaker 1: good to see you. I am so happy to speak

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Speaker 1: with you. You may not be a household name in

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Speaker 1: many households in America, but you are in mine, and

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Speaker 1: I want our listeners to know that you have been

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Speaker 1: on the front lines of journalism about our elections and

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Speaker 1: b pticularly about the challenges to voting, voter suppression tricks

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Speaker 1: and Shenanigan's to keep people from voting, and you have

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Speaker 1: a unique position from which to view what we have

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Speaker 1: just experienced. And when I thought about who I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to after the election, your name was at

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Speaker 1: the top of the list. How how have you spent

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Speaker 1: the past week since the election? You know, it feels

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Speaker 1: like just yesterday but also a lifetime ago. Well, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much, Secretary Clinton. And it's a real honor

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Speaker 1: to be able to have this conversation with you, especially now.

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Speaker 1: And when I think of the people that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to after the election, you are at the

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Speaker 1: top of my list. So I'm really glad that we

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Speaker 1: got to do this. So, I mean, on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: it was a really chaotic and to the election, but

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, it was a really successful and

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Speaker 1: to the election when you think about it, because there

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Speaker 1: were unprecedented threats to voting in this election. There were

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Speaker 1: so many questions about would people be able to vote,

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Speaker 1: would their votes be counted, And we saw that people

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Speaker 1: turned out in record numbers, that their votes were counted.

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Speaker 1: That yes, it took a few days too for all

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Speaker 1: the votes to be counted, and some of the votes

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Speaker 1: are still being counted. But the process worked, The system worked.

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Speaker 1: It was a legitimate election that people came out, they voted,

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Speaker 1: their votes were counted, and ultimately they changed the direction

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Speaker 1: of this country. And so I know there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of disinformation, there's a lot of noise, but from my standpoint,

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Speaker 1: there were so many nightmare scenarios that I had about

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Speaker 1: how this election played out, and for it to be

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Speaker 1: basically over by Saturday morning was, from my standpoint, a

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Speaker 1: huge success. I agree with that, Ari, and a couple

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Speaker 1: of my takeaways that I wanted to run by you

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Speaker 1: are that the election itself worked in part because people

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Speaker 1: actually got to cast their votes. The kind of suppression

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Speaker 1: tactic that we saw a lot of in twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: where people were literally disenfranchised, you know, they were not

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Speaker 1: allowed to register. They were allowed to register, but then

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Speaker 1: when they showed up, they were turned away because of

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Speaker 1: you know, some alleged problem with their I d and

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Speaker 1: I think we learned a lot from eighteen and we

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Speaker 1: also were advantaged by having democratic office holders, for example

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin and Michigan, and bright spotlights on the office

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Speaker 1: holders in Georgia and Arizona. So we learned that pre

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Speaker 1: voting suppression is actually a more terrible successful tactic than

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Speaker 1: trying to mess with the actual votes. And I'm really

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Speaker 1: encouraged by that. Yeah, I think they're absolutely right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that happened in when you were

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Speaker 1: running was a lot of the suppression was in back

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Speaker 1: rooms and people didn't know about it. So it was

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Speaker 1: the first presidential election fifty years without the full protections

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Speaker 1: of the Voting Rights Act. Because the Supreme Court got

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Speaker 1: to the Voting Rights Act into thirteen, it said that

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Speaker 1: states of the long history of discrimination didn't have to

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Speaker 1: approve their voting changes with the federal government. So that

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Speaker 1: allowed new suppression efforts in the South and the West,

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Speaker 1: and then you had states in the north like Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: passing new suppression efforts as well. But it didn't really

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Speaker 1: get any coverage, and it was such a different story

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Speaker 1: in I can't tell you the number of people that

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Speaker 1: told me the day after the election, I finally understand

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Speaker 1: what you're writing about exactly. And I think there really

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Speaker 1: was a realization we're not going to allow history to

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Speaker 1: repeat itself. And then the fact that Trump was so

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Speaker 1: open about what he was doing, the fact that he said,

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Speaker 1: if you made it easier to vote, a Republican would

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Speaker 1: never be elected again. The fact that he said he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to fund the Post Office because he didn't

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Speaker 1: want to expand mail voting, the fact that he said

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Speaker 1: we're going to send the lawyers in right after the election.

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Speaker 1: All of that made people aware there's an attempt to

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Speaker 1: try to prevent you from voting, so do everything you can,

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Speaker 1: everything you absolutely can to make sure your vote is counted.

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Speaker 1: So we had the kind of movement against suppression in

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Speaker 1: that was missing. Unfortunately. You know, I know we don't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of data yet. I've been searching for

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Speaker 1: it myself. But do you have some preliminary information about

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Speaker 1: how the vote broke down, who turned out, where they

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Speaker 1: turned out, anything you can share with us. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think George is a great example. I mean, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like black voters in Georgia really propelled Joe Biden into

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Speaker 1: what looks like a likely victory in that state. And

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad you brought that up because there was

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Speaker 1: so much suppression in Georgia, where you actually had the

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Speaker 1: Secretary of State Brian kept also running for government and

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Speaker 1: putting in place all of these policies, whether it's making

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Speaker 1: it more difficult to vote, or closing polling places or

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Speaker 1: falsely accusing Democrats of hacking the election that really kept

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Speaker 1: Stacy Abrams from being the first black woman governor in

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Speaker 1: US history. Then you had the primaries in Georgia back

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Speaker 1: in June where people were still voting at twelve thirty

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Speaker 1: am at night. And I think the pandemic really exposed

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Speaker 1: a lot of this suppression. Because you're right, it got

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Speaker 1: a little bit of attention in it got more mention.

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Speaker 1: But I think the fact that you saw those lines

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Speaker 1: in Milwaukee in April, when there were only five polling

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Speaker 1: places instead of eighty, and you had people holding signs

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Speaker 1: in line, that says this is ridiculous. People were so

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Speaker 1: much more aware of the problems with our voting system

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Speaker 1: and so they were willing to wait in eleven hour

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Speaker 1: lines to be able to vote. They dropped their ballots

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Speaker 1: off because they didn't trust the post office. They turned

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Speaker 1: out on record numbers early, so there wouldn't be problems

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Speaker 1: on election day. And I think all of that, the

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Speaker 1: fact that there were so many organizations helping people vote,

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Speaker 1: but also that voters themselves really listened and made a plan.

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Speaker 1: When Michelle Obama said make a plan, people made a plan.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why we had, in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, a more successful election than some of us

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Speaker 1: were maybe preparing for. You know, a lot of political analysis,

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Speaker 1: frankly endless political analysis and journalistic reporting, you know, focused

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Speaker 1: on the white working class. That's the demographic that so

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Speaker 1: many people after the election and we're trying to understand

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Speaker 1: and trying to, you know, give a voice to But

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Speaker 1: if you look at what happened in Wisconsin and Michigan

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Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania, it was the black community that turned out

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Speaker 1: that wasn't suppressed the way that it had been in sixteen.

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Speaker 1: They really overcame what had been real barriers. And I

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Speaker 1: think you know, you have written about that how they

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Speaker 1: helped Biden win Wisconsin, and also I would argue Michigan

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Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania. Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, Biden didn't

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Speaker 1: win because of white voters. If if this election was

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Speaker 1: the side of my people like you and me, Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump would have had a second term. And so it

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Speaker 1: absolutely was Black voters in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan. It was

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Speaker 1: Latino voters in Nevada and Arizona. It was Native American

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Speaker 1: voters in Arizona. I mean, these are the groups that

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Speaker 1: turned out in record numbers and turned out for Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people learned from I mean, take Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: There was really no organizing going on in the black

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Speaker 1: community in Milwaukee in to try to help people vote.

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Speaker 1: There just wasn't the kind of energy on the ground

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Speaker 1: in terms of organizing. And I think people realize, we

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Speaker 1: can't let this happen again. We have to invest in

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Speaker 1: these communities if we want to have the kind of

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Speaker 1: turnout we need. And so there was a lot more

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Speaker 1: resources invested and a lot more community groups working in

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Speaker 1: places like Milwaukee. People were very, very resilient that that

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Speaker 1: was not going to happen again, that the votes that

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Speaker 1: were being targeted for suppression ended up being the votes

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Speaker 1: that made the difference for Joe Biden in this election.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. You know, I loved your tweet

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Speaker 1: on November the six where you said black voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: and Latino voters in Arizona, Nevada ended the Trump presidency.

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Speaker 1: Muslim and Arab voters also made a big difference in

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Speaker 1: states like Michigan, Georgia, and Arizona. You're the first person

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Speaker 1: that I saw say that. Can you explain it? Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about all these different demographics. And there

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Speaker 1: was so much attention on the white working class vote

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Speaker 1: in the aftermath of the election, even into the run

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Speaker 1: up of the whole question was you know what what

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Speaker 1: you another guy in a mega hat? I mean really,

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Speaker 1: I mean the New York Times did a story about

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Speaker 1: white voters in suburban Atlanta, and they were actually quoting

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Speaker 1: officials from the Republican Party as those white voters. And

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Speaker 1: now they weren't spending any time talking to Muslim and

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Speaker 1: Air voters in Dearborn, Michigan, or talking to Native American

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Speaker 1: voters in Navajo Nation, or talking to black voters in Milwaukee.

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Speaker 1: And these are the people that made the difference. These

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Speaker 1: are also a lot of the communities that have been

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Speaker 1: hit hardest by COVID and so just to think about

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Speaker 1: you know, Navajo Nation, which voted for Joe Biden, the

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Speaker 1: the amount of death and hardship that's happened there, And

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Speaker 1: I really think for these unees it really was life

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Speaker 1: and death. I think for some people it was just

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Speaker 1: an election, but for others it was life and death.

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Speaker 1: And I think the stakes were raised for the communities

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Speaker 1: that were targeted by suppression, that were hit hardest by COVID,

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Speaker 1: that have had their economies decimated, the election meant more

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Speaker 1: to them. And I think there's a reason why they

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Speaker 1: turned out in such high numbers, and I think there's

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Speaker 1: a reason why they made such a big difference in

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Speaker 1: the outcome. I want to ask you about the path

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Speaker 1: ahead because you started using the term a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago in your writing about the Roberts Court gutting

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Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act, the unleashing of voter suppression tactics

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Speaker 1: in a lot of states following that, and describing the

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Speaker 1: people who were trying to turn the clock back as

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Speaker 1: counter revolutionaries. That has always stuck with me, Ari, because

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people understandably are slowly looking

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Speaker 1: at what happened with the Voting Rights Act being gutted.

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Speaker 1: With Citizens United, I was also the first candidate to

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Speaker 1: run with since united in full force, and how much

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Speaker 1: more work it takes to overcome a counter revolution. Can

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Speaker 1: you say a little bit about your perception of where

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Speaker 1: we are right now with the forces that are not

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Speaker 1: going to sit silently by. They are persistent, if nothing else.

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Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham, who I don't know what's happened to him, said,

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Speaker 1: you know just the other day that you know, if

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Speaker 1: if people keep voting, Republicans will never win. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what an admission of exactly what they're afraid of. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think that's absolutely right. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't think we should believe that because people turned out

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Speaker 1: in record numbers these barriers didn't exist. I mean, people

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Speaker 1: turned out despite the fact the Voting Rights Act was

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Speaker 1: got it. People turned out despite the fact that the

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Speaker 1: Post office was sabotage. People turned out despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that polling places were closed and people were turned away

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Speaker 1: from the voting roles and they had to wait eleven

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Speaker 1: hours to vote. I mean, people overcame these barriers, but

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Speaker 1: it took a massive, massive effort to overcome them, and

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Speaker 1: we still have those counter revolutionaries that are opposed to

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Speaker 1: voting rights in some very powerful positions. We now not

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Speaker 1: only have a five to four court, we have a

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Speaker 1: six to three chord that leads to the right. And

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Speaker 1: so that is not good news for voting rights and

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Speaker 1: that is going to be a very very difficult thing

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Speaker 1: to navigate going forward. And I'm very concerned that they're

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Speaker 1: going to further weaken the Voting Rights Act and they're

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Speaker 1: going to further chip away at our democracy. As of now,

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell is still in control of the Senate. That

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Speaker 1: is going to make it very difficult to pass legislation

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Speaker 1: to restore the Voting Rights Act or to make it

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Speaker 1: easier to vote. Republicans are still in control at the

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Speaker 1: state level of states like Wisconsin, of states like Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Some of these states have democratic governors. Some places like

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Speaker 1: Texas and Florida do not. They have one party control

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Speaker 1: heading into redistricting one which means they could draw even

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Speaker 1: more egregious maps for the next decade. So the fight

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Speaker 1: for democracy is not over. I really really think this

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Speaker 1: is important that people not get complacent just because Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden one that is one very very very important accomplishment.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Joe Biden may have literally saved American democracy

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Speaker 1: by becoming elected president, because who knows what would have

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Speaker 1: happened under four more years of Donald Trump. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: control the Supreme Court, he doesn't control the U. S. Senate,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't control many of the states, or his allies

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Speaker 1: don't control many of the states. And so all of

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Speaker 1: those threats of democracy still exist, and we shouldn't ignore

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Speaker 1: them just because Biden was elected. I already worry that

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Speaker 1: we're having the totally wrong conversation after the election, because

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Speaker 1: we're already in this place where Republicans are talking over

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Speaker 1: and over about massive irregularities, and then now people are

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Speaker 1: trying to say, disprove them right, and and it's almost

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Speaker 1: like you're trying to disprove something that doesn't exist, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to saying, this was not an election that we

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Speaker 1: should repeat, we should not exactly again, we should not

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Speaker 1: have these kind of barriers in front of voters again.

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Speaker 1: And what are we doing to make sure that these

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Speaker 1: barriers don't exist? And and I worry that all of

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Speaker 1: this talk of de legitimizing the election all it's not

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Speaker 1: going to change the outcome, and it's not going to

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Speaker 1: prevent Biden from being elected. I do worry it's going

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Speaker 1: to lead Republicans to double down on the voter suppression

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Speaker 1: effort based on falsehoods and imaginary conspiracy theories. But they're

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Speaker 1: going to convince themselves. Either they're gonna believe it, or

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Speaker 1: they're going to be political opportunists, and they're gonna say,

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Speaker 1: look at all the irregularities in Detroit or Milwaukee or Philly,

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Speaker 1: and because of that, we have to institute even more

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Speaker 1: barriers to prevent people from voting, as opposed to tearing

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Speaker 1: those barriers down. It's so ridiculous. We've done study after

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Speaker 1: study and by conservative, by liberal, by right, by left,

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Speaker 1: by all kinds of think tanks, and there is very

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Speaker 1: little fraud when it comes to the voter. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of fraud when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: people setting up the elections and running them, as we

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Speaker 1: have unfortunately seen. But I take exactly what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: You know, it will be difficult for a President Biden

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Speaker 1: to do much from the national level, with Mitch McConnell still,

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Speaker 1: you know, standing in the way of everything that needs

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Speaker 1: to be done, and it will be quite a challenge

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Speaker 1: to get the Supreme Court to care about any of

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Speaker 1: these issues. So I think we're going to have to

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Speaker 1: have a state and local bottoms up kind of strategy,

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Speaker 1: similar to the litigation that Mark Elias and others have

433
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: been bringing to try to, you know, get into state courts,

434
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: get into state constitutions, get into state laws, try to

435
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: fix the you know, the problems at the state and

436
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: local level. Do you agree with that? I do agree

437
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: with that, and I think there are some states that

438
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: are are really positive models. You look at Virginia, for example,

439
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: when Democrats finally got control of both the governorship and

440
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: the legislature of Virginia, they very very rapidly instituted policies

441
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: that made it easier to vote. So Virginia had forty

442
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: five days of early voting this year. For example, they

443
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: got rid of the need to have a witness signature

444
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: on your absolute ballot, which was very confusing to people.

445
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: They repealed the state's photo ide law. They did all

446
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: of these things to make it easier to vote, and

447
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: there is record turn out in Virginia, and voting went

448
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: very smoothly in Virginia. Didn't hear any real problems other

449
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: than long lines, which was due to high turnout at

450
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: the beginning of the election. And so I do think

451
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: that that's really important. And I do think that there's

452
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: going to be some places where we're going to see

453
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: the kind of changes we need. In Michigan, for example,

454
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: they're going to have an independent Registring Commission, so they're

455
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: not gonna have the kind of jerrymandering that you see

456
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: in the past decade. But in states where Republicans are

457
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: in control, this is gonna be a long battle. And

458
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: I think people have to draw the lesson that Stacy

459
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: Abrams did after, which is that just because you lose

460
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: an election, you don't stop organizing. Exactly, Well, I can't

461
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: have a conversation with you without mentioning the electoral college.

462
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: You know, on Thursday November five, two days after the election,

463
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: you wrote truly insane that we're obsessing over votes in

464
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: Georgia when Biden is leading by four million votes nationwide.

465
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: Now that's a refle election about how the electoral college

466
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: distorts our democratic process. Now, even though it's unlikely, do

467
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: you think that there's any chance that we could change

468
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: or even abolish the electoral college so that our elections

469
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: for president reflected our elections for everybody else, the person

470
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: with the most votes. And obviously I take this personally

471
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: becomes the person who's elected. I mean, I would hope.

472
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: So it was really crazy on an election night around

473
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: eleven PM, when everyone was biding their teeth and wondering

474
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: what was going to happen in all of these states.

475
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: Biden pulled ahead in the popular vote, and you just

476
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: knew his lead was going to grow and grow and grow,

477
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: and and because states like California and New York and

478
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 1: Illinois are becoming even bluer because Democrats are turning out

479
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: even more votes in Texas, you knew that his margin

480
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: was going to be four or five it could be

481
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: six million votes while it's over. And when we spent

482
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: so much time obsessing over polls in the run up

483
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: to the election, it was always clear there was never

484
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: any doubt that Biden was going to win the popular vote,

485
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: just like there was never any doubt that you were

486
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: going to win the popular vote, and your election was

487
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: not a particularly close election if you look at at

488
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: the popular vote, and and same with this election. And

489
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: then this kept going on for days, right where we're

490
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: talking about ten thousand vote margins and states, and we

491
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: were wondering what was going to happen with the latest

492
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: batch of results from Maricopa County when meanwhile, this popular

493
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: vote number went from one million to two million, to

494
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: three million to four million. And so I don't think

495
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: the message from the election it should be, Oh, the

496
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: electoral college works. I don't get rid of it because

497
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: there was still an election that was decided by five

498
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: or six states, and so many votes don't count. And

499
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: so I think the quickest way to get rid of

500
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: the electoral college would be for states to join the

501
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: Interstate Popular Vote Compact, which basically says they will pledge

502
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: their electors to the winner of the popular vote nationwide.

503
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: Because you don't need legislation to do that, you just

504
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: need states to sign on to it. And did in Colorado.

505
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: Just Colorado just did that, exactly, just did that. The

506
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: longer route, obviously, would be a constitutional amendment. It's not

507
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: going to happen. It's not gonna happen any anytime soon.

508
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: But the funny thing is, I don't really understand why

509
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: Republicans are so invested in the electoral college when so

510
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: many of their voters are frozen out too. I mean,

511
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: if you're a Republican in California or New York, your

512
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: vote really doesn't matter either when it comes to presidential elections,

513
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: you don't really have any sort of saying. So basically,

514
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: if if you live in thirty five states of the country,

515
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,239
Speaker 1: it's very, very unlikely that a presidential candidate's ever going

516
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: to visit your state. And we had a broader map

517
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: this year in the sense that Georgia wasn't play in Texas,

518
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: was Arizona, but it wasn't a broad map. It was

519
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: still ten states, right, And so I mean, you know

520
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: how it is being in New York. I mean, people

521
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: come here to ask for money, but nobody ever comes

522
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: to ask for our votes. And same with California. Same

523
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: if you live in Texas for the most part. And

524
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: I just think that it's really really difficult to reconcile

525
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: the electoral college with any kind of core democratic principles.

526
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a kind of question about Trump.

527
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: He has done his best and will continue aidan and

528
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: embedded by his allies to undermine the legitimacy of this election.

529
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: What happens if he not only doesn't concede, which I

530
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: don't think he will frankly, but tries to throw all

531
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: kinds of roadblocks into the transition. He already has directed

532
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: his officials not to cooperate with the Biden transition, which

533
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: is a first, because you know, once the election is over,

534
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: you're supposed to start cooperating so the incoming administration can

535
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: get prepared. So what happens He refuses to concede, and

536
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: and then what ari Well, the good news is that

537
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: the president doesn't really have any authority over how votes

538
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: are counted and how votes are certified, so there's really

539
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: not a whole lot he can do except complaint. They're

540
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: filing all of these lawsuits, but they're not really amounting anything.

541
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: There's no evidence it's based on, and all the votes

542
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: have basically already been counted already. So right now we're

543
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 1: in the process of finishing the vote counts and all

544
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: of these states there there might be a recount in Georgia,

545
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: but nothing's going to take that long. Then those votes

546
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: are going to be certified by state and local authorities

547
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Some states it takes a week, some states

548
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: stakes two weeks, some states it takes three weeks. So

549
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: that's gonna happen relatively soon. Then electors are going to

550
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: be pledged in December. December fourteenth is the date that

551
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: electors are pledged, and I'm anticipating everything is going to

552
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: be done by then, because we're not in a Bush

553
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: two thousand situation. This is not a seven vote election.

554
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: The closest state right now is ten thousand votes in Georgia,

555
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: and litigation rarely, if ever, changes a margin that big.

556
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: Then once the electors are are nominated, Congress is going

557
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: to certify that result in early January, and Joe Biden

558
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: is going to be the next president. So I think

559
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: they're trying to slow the process down. And obviously you're

560
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: trying to raise doubts about the process, but Trump doesn't

561
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: actually control any aspect of that process, from the counting

562
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: to the certification to what Congress does. Now, his allies,

563
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure are going to raise a state inc but

564
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: I anticipate this process will play out as past processes do.

565
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you know, I mean, other than yourself,

566
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is probably the most prepared person to ever

567
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: become president. So I mean, even if the Trump campaigns

568
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: not cooperating with them, I'm pretty sure they know what

569
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: to do in terms of a presidential transition, right, I mean,

570
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: I agree right either way that he's going to be

571
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: prepared to become president on January. Do you have any

572
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, final words about what you think listeners should

573
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: be focused on as we go through a lame duck session,

574
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: as we have a president who continues to undermine the

575
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: legitimacy of our elections, and then when we get a

576
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: new president, how we should be thinking about our democracy. Yeah.

577
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: I would urge people to keep their eyes on the price.

578
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: As John Lewis said, I mean, there's gonna be a

579
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: lot of disinformation out there. I don't think we need

580
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: to relitigate the outcome of the election. I think we

581
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: just need to emphasize people voted in record numbers, their

582
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: votes were counted, the system worked, there were no irregularities,

583
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's particularly productive to try to

584
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: tweet back at Donald Trump anymore about what he's saying.

585
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: I think it's time to move on and start to

586
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: focus on the real solutions to our democracy. And that's

587
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: how do we rebuild our democracy, not just after four

588
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: years of Donald Trump, but after all of the attacks

589
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: that have come from Republican controlled states, after the gutting

590
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: of the Voting Rights Act. What is a real democracy

591
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: reform agenda look like? And Joe Biden is going to

592
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: be able to do some of that, right. Bill Barr

593
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: is not going to be Attorney General, and there's gonna

594
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: be a lot of stuff that they can do on

595
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: an executive level to try to help people vote and

596
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: rebuild our democracy. But we also need different people in

597
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: control of the U. S. Senate if we're going to

598
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: restore the Voting Rights Act. We also need different people

599
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: in control of states or different outcomes and states if

600
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: we want to prevent another decade of Republican gerrymandering. And

601
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: we need to you is the momentum that we saw

602
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: at the national level, at the state and local level,

603
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: because if there's gridlock in Washington, then the state's really

604
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: become a lot of the laboratories for a change. So

605
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: so I would just urge people to think that this

606
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: is a huge victory, but it's just one step in

607
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 1: the process, and we really have to still do a

608
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: lot more to make sure that everyone can vote, that

609
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: everyone's votes count equally, and that we have a democracy

610
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 1: that works for everybody instead of a select few. And

611
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: we're getting closer to that point, but we still have

612
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: a long way to go. That was so well said

613
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: and Thank you so much, Jarry Berman for everything you've

614
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: done to help explain the challenges to voting to help

615
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: defend our democracy, and uh, you know, just keep going because,

616
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: as you say, it's not over yet. We made a

617
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: big step, but we've got to stay committed to the

618
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 1: path we're on to preserve, protect, and expand our democracy.

619
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for talking with me today. Thanks

620
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: so much, Secretary Clinton. It was a huge honor. Now

621
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: I want to turn to another journalist, Solo Dad O'Brien.

622
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: She's an award winning documentarian and journalist. She's the founder

623
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: of Solo Dad O'Brien Productions, a documentary production company, and

624
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: the anchor and producer of the TV show Matter of

625
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: Fact with Solidad O'Brien. Hello, Solidad, I am so happy

626
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: to talk with you and I'm looking forward to hearing

627
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: your perspective on this election. Secretary Clinton, thank you, thank

628
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: you for having me on your podcast. It's a real pleasure.

629
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: You know, I wanted to talk to you for a

630
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: lot of different reasons. Your perspective, your experience, your understanding

631
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: of the interplay between the press and the public in

632
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: an election like this one. And I guess I should

633
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: start out asking you what you think of this election,

634
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: What surprised you, what you draw from it? Uh, not

635
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 1: much surprised me, I would say, except for the fact

636
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: that this election has been a four year process. President

637
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Trump has never stopped running. And I think where the

638
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: media has failed, although slowly kind of figured it out,

639
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: is how do you handle a candidate who actually has

640
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: no intention at all of kind of stepping into the job.

641
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: So I think it's just been a very long and

642
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: frustrating for years for me. I've focused a lot on

643
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: mistakes I think the media has made. The only thing

644
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: that has surprised me has been the degree to which

645
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: members of Congress and sort of high ranking people in

646
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,439
Speaker 1: the GOP have really capitulated that has been a surprise. Well,

647
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: I think you make two really important points, one about

648
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: the GOP and the other piece about the press. I

649
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: think you nailed it in a number of comments that

650
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: I've seen you make over the years. It was apparently

651
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: just too unbelievable for the press to accept what they

652
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: saw right before their eyes, that this was a man

653
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: who would bully and lie to whatever degree he thought

654
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: benefited him. And I hope that there is now a

655
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: reckoning of some sort. Yeah. I think the media requires

656
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: a narrative change constantly, right, That's what allows you to say, well,

657
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: breaking news, this thing has now happened, that dinge of tone,

658
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: there's a new whatever um. And so I think because

659
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: of that, there's always this concept that you know, maybe

660
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: something is happening here because action is sort of what

661
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: drives that breaking news agenda, if you will. And so

662
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: I think that was part of it. And the other

663
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: piece of it, to me was just this this idea

664
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: of and I think it's related around money. It's just

665
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: not expensive to put pundits on TV. When I was

666
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: at CNN, for example, you pay someone somewhere around a

667
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year. But that meant for every

668
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: show for an entire year. And I'm sure people are

669
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: getting much more than that, and some are getting much

670
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: less than that. But if you think about it, you

671
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: now have this sunk cost of TV shows that just

672
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: continue on and on and on with time, moving the

673
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 1: characters around. As long as you have there's this side

674
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: versus that side, and you create this sense of urgency

675
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: and also conflict, which is a good way to drive viewership.

676
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: The thing that I thought most interesting on election night

677
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: was when finally they ditched all the pundits right and

678
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: they said, let's go to Alleghany County and then talked

679
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: to this person. And it was like, oh, now we're reporting.

680
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: We're going to a person and actually finding out on

681
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: the ground. No one's going to uh suss it out

682
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: for us or give us their take or explain what

683
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: the White House is doing. Just go to the voices

684
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: on the ground. It's not brain surgery. It's reporting. But

685
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: it does require money, live cameras, it requires reporters there.

686
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: And so I was interesting to see that pivot and

687
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: how much the quality improved when you removed all the

688
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: noise of pundits and instead you just relied on regardless

689
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: of their political background. I have no idea that Alleghany

690
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: County lady, who's quite good. I don't know anything about

691
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: or outside. She was a good interview, giving us good

692
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: factual insight into what was happening in an important county

693
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: in a very important state. We're taking a quick break.

694
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 1: Stay with us, you know. I also wanted to mention

695
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: that you have pointed out time and again that black

696
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: women are often written out of the election narrative. That

697
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: we are usually hearing, and we know they're the most

698
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: reliable voters. And something you tweet it really spoke to me.

699
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: Um you said, I would just like to point out

700
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: that the cities at the center of the action right now, Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit,

701
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: Atlanta virtually never have TV news crews falling over themselves

702
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: to book quote regular folks unquote from there, or want

703
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 1: to learn more about them or invite them onto their sets.

704
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit more about what you meant?

705
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: The New York Times has an excellent article today on

706
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: a Trump voter who's frustrated and wants people understand why

707
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: he didn't vote. Provided article on the Trump voter for

708
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: it wasn't there. Somebody did account and I think they

709
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: found sixty over the I mean, it's insane, right, It's

710
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: just you know, so I found that very frustrating because

711
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that people don't want to have the

712
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: Philly voter, because that's how I want to talk to

713
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: especially if you consider how frequently disenfranchise those voters are right,

714
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: like you'd sort of say, like, listen, I would fully

715
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: understand if you didn't vote Native Americans, like who wants

716
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: to stand in line for eleven hours, right Like, it's

717
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: so challenging, and for some reason, I think because the

718
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: New York Times especially felt like they missed the vote

719
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: on the last election, they have really doubled down on this,

720
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: and it's so tedious and ridiculous, you know, and I

721
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: have always found it so weird to sort of parse

722
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: through this, you know, who's responsible as opposed to a

723
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: strategy that maybe the Democrats could think about of elevating

724
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: all of these different groups and really hopeful they can

725
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: figure out the in fighting um, which probably has some

726
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: health to its, probably got some good points to it,

727
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: but this idea, right like, I think you look at

728
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: a state like Arizona, which was Latinos and Native Americans,

729
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: right and I'm sure Cindy McCain schlepping around on behalf

730
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: of them now President elect Biden. I'm sure she got

731
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: some votes to and I'm going to guess in Arizona

732
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: some Lincoln Project ads were effective. So I'm hopeful. It's hard.

733
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know better than anybody, how do you

734
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: build a constituency with people who don't necessarily see eye

735
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: to eye. I think the point is a really critical one.

736
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: Let's get away from slicing and dicing the electorate. You know,

737
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: politics should be a process of addition, not division. And

738
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: nobody owns the truth. Nobody can say, oh, well, you know,

739
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: if only you listen to me, or oh no, if

740
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: you only do that. So I think it's important that we,

741
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, have this debate about the path forward. And

742
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: it's going to be especially important because sadly, at least

743
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: as of now, you know, the Biden Harris administration is

744
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: not going to have a Senate. In fact, they're going

745
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 1: to have the same obstacle called Mitch McConnell that Barack

746
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: Obama and Joe Biden no from their own prior experience.

747
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: But I really have to ask you about kamala Um.

748
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: Here we are, and it was thrilling to see her

749
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: wearing that white suffragist suit, standing on that plant pants

750
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: suit pants pants. So it was it goes all the

751
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: way back a hundred years to the suffragists. But what

752
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: does saying madam Vice President mean to you? I just

753
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: think it's amazing to have an opportunity to show America

754
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: in all of its diversity. I really do. I mean,

755
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: I think often when we talk about diversity, we're sort

756
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: of saying, well, black people are you know, latinos or

757
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: we're really talking about this. And I actually would love

758
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: to see a cabinet that just looks like America. And

759
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: you know a lot of the times you'd see photos

760
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: from inside the round table of people sort of you know,

761
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: cow towing to President Trump and it was just all

762
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: older white men, and it's just not the picture of

763
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: a very diverse country. So just from that standpoint alone,

764
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: I think it would be amazing. But you know, I'm

765
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: a Delta, which is a black sorority that focuses on surface.

766
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: She's an A K A. And I can tell you

767
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: the A k s are going to or already and

768
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: we'll continue to be insolved. There's always a little flashing anyway.

769
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, now a Delta elect let's

770
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: come on, get moving. Yes, but we're happy for the

771
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 1: A K s. But yeah, I mean it's it's great,

772
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: and I think it's I remember my daughter Cecilia, who's

773
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: now about to start college. But when Barack Obama was elected,

774
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: she's used to say, so, he's the first black man.

775
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: I think she was about to say. I said, yeah,

776
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: She's like, there hasn't been another one. I said, She's like, well,

777
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: how many girls have never been I'm like, that's a

778
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: bad news for you, honey, there's been no girls. No girls,

779
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: because you know, and it does matter in the I

780
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: think narrative about the possibility of what America is that

781
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: really can have this opportunity as long as they work

782
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: hard and take advantage of what's in front of them. So,

783
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think in that regard it's it's really important. Okay,

784
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 1: So big question, what do you think this election tells

785
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: us about the country we're living in and what kind

786
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: of progress do you think can be made with you know,

787
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris now going to be you know,

788
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: in the White House. I hope one thing they focus

789
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: on is taking those things that are norms, which is

790
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: a terrible word because I don't think it ever connects

791
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: to people. I don't think we walk around saying, well,

792
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: that's a norm and it doesn't mean anything. So I

793
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: think there are a lot of things in government that

794
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: we all learned hatch act it's a norm and it

795
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: has no actual teeth behind it. And I think probably

796
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: the biggest thing we've learned and is how much hinges

797
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: on norms which means you're relying on your colleagues to

798
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 1: do the right thing. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't.

799
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: So maybe those norms need to be strengthened so that

800
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,959
Speaker 1: there's actual accountability. And we also have to figure out

801
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: just misinformation and disinformation. I really am frustrated with the

802
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: media because I think they talk out of both sides

803
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: of their mouths. You know, they elevate misinformation, They carry

804
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: press conferences that are literally they will report later that

805
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: it was fully alive while while also doing a special

806
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: on misinformation, and doesn't mean you can't really do that

807
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 1: and hope to be serving democracy. So I don't know

808
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: how much more can be done without addressing those things first,

809
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: because those, to me, having never been in government office,

810
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: feel like the building blocks of helping people understand their democracy.

811
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: And if we don't kind of create some kind of

812
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: structure there, it's insane to me. And I'm not sure

813
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: at the last minutes we've been talking this has changed,

814
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: but that there's some lady who just decided she's not

815
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: going to verify the result. Yeah, the lady in charge

816
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 1: of helping the Biden team transition into the new administration

817
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: has decided. I'm sure having been told by the Trump

818
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: White House that she's just not going to cooperate and

819
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: you're not going to give them. But I would have

820
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: never thought that was a thing like ID page seventy

821
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: nine of whatever the handbook is they give you all

822
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: when you go into governments, you would say like, yeah,

823
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: item seven, top five. Well, but I really like what

824
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: you said about accountability, and I am very much in

825
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: that camp that there has to be accountability for the

826
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: breaches that we saw violating the Hatch Act, for example,

827
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: but there were so many others. They would put people

828
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: into positions that we're not qualified, they were not confirmed,

829
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: and they would leave them there and courts would say no,

830
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: they have to go, and then they would move them around.

831
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: I mean, there was so much that just undermined the

832
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: rule of law and the expectation every American, regardless of

833
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: political party, should have that the people in the government

834
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: are actually following the rules. But I think your average

835
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: Americans thinks Bill bar is President Trump's lawyer. I think

836
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: your average American feels like the d o J actually

837
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: is there to do the president's bidding. I think we

838
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: have failed, certainly in explaining, you know, basic mechanisms of

839
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: how government works. So I don't I think most people

840
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: don't really understand those issues. Uh So, I think a

841
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: lot of work has to be done on that front

842
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: as well. But that's why I think your kind of

843
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: journalism is more important now than ever. So it because,

844
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: for whatever combination of reasons, kids are not getting Civics education,

845
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: people are not getting good information on which to make decisions,

846
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: which is instrumental to how a democracy is supposed to work.

847
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: So the press has a huge responsibility, and I can

848
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: only hope and pray that they're going to step up

849
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: better than they have in the last four years. Yeah,

850
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: I wish I could tell you like, yep, you got it.

851
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: I think that we're going to have to wait and

852
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: see and if there's someone who can figure out how

853
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: to make ratings out of not a lot of what

854
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: made Trump and I know because I was in the

855
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: room for many of these conversations made him appealing, right,

856
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: was he'lled who knows what he'll do. He's It's great

857
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: for reality TV. You never know, it's the wild card.

858
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: It's going to be interesting. And I think we have

859
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get certainly news to move

860
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: away from that and move into educating people. The one

861
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: thing I can say is when we started doing that

862
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: on our show, because we were forced to, our ratings

863
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: grew massively. People actually wanted to understand the context, and

864
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: so on that front, I do feel hopeful because I

865
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: think people actually want information and context. Well from your

866
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: lips to God's ears. My friend, I'm not sure how

867
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: much he listens to me, but I just can't thank

868
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: you enough. I just really wanted you to be part

869
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: of this discussion. Thank you so much, thanks for having me.

870
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, there's one more election update I

871
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: wanted to share. If you listen to last week's show,

872
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: you'll remember Brandon Thomas who was running for state representative

873
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: in Tennessee. He ran a hard fought campaign, but sadly

874
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: Brandon did not win that race, but he shared this

875
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: message with us. Hi, everybody, this is Brandon Thomas. We

876
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: didn't get the result we wanted in this past election. However,

877
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: I am excited. I'm thankful that we have President elect

878
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: Joseph Biden, and I think that means a lot for

879
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: our country. Me I'm going to keep plugging. We know,

880
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: Tennessee in and of itself is a red state. You know,

881
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: we know that it's going to take some time, and

882
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: we know that we can look to Georgia for that inspiration.

883
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: You know, Georgia is right below us. Like if Georgia

884
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: can do it, Tennessee can do it. We're going to

885
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: figure out how to flip Tennessee blue again, and we're

886
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: going to figure out how to make progress again. So

887
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: you know, I'm still in this fight. I know a

888
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: lot of other people are as well. Don't discount us.

889
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of Brandon and everyone who decided to

890
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: jump into the arena in this election. You know, I've

891
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: thought a lot about this election, and obviously I've thought

892
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: a lot about the last election. In it's very reassuring

893
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: to see the outpouring of votes by people who want

894
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: to see a change and voted for Joe Biden and

895
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris. You know, back in I never wrote a

896
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: concession speech until it became necessary, but I did have

897
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: a victory speech, and I went back and I looked

898
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: at that because parts of it seemed so relevant to

899
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: me today to Joe and com ALA's wonderful victory. And

900
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: let me just read from it, because it's the tone

901
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: and the tenor that I think was captured this weekend

902
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: when so many people spontaneously poured out into the streets

903
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: across America, singing and dancing and laughing, and still wearing

904
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: masks in most places, but just so filled with joy.

905
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: So here's what I had hoped to be able to say.

906
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: With your children on your shoulders, neighbors at your side, friends,

907
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: old and new, standing as one, you renewed our democracy

908
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: and you changed its face forever. If you dig deep

909
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: enough through all the mud of politics, eventually you hit

910
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: something hard and true, a foundation of fundamental values that

911
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: unite us as Americans. You proved that today in a

912
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: country divided by race and religion, class and culture, and

913
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: often paralyzing partisanship, a vision of a hopeful, inclusive, big

914
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: hearted America prevailed. That is how I'm feeling today, and

915
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: I hope you are too. You and me both is

916
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: brought to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by

917
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo, with help from Juma Aberdeen,

918
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: Nikki E Tour, Oscar Flores, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Lauren Peterson,

919
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: Rob Russo, and Lona val moorro our engineer Is Zack McNeice.

920
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: Original music is by Forrest Gray. If you like the show,

921
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: tell someone else about it. You can subscribe to You

922
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: and Me Both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

923
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love to hear

924
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: from you. Send us your questions and comments, or even

925
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: ideas for future episodes to You and Me Both pod

926
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Come back next week when we'll

927
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: be speaking with Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who has seen a

928
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,439
Speaker 1: lot of ups and downs of this election firsthand as

929
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: governor of Michigan. Don't miss her, and don't miss it.