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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your

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Speaker 1: podcast that's sometimes about sports, which I had no idea

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Speaker 1: what happened when I first started a show about Cool

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Speaker 1: People Did Cool Stuff. But actually, it turns out is

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Speaker 1: a major part of Cool People Did Cool Stuff is

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Speaker 1: the interaction between various types of rebellion and various types

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Speaker 1: of group athleticism and or sports. So my guest is

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Speaker 1: Shiv around us. Hi, Shieve, how are you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you for having me mic blay

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Speaker 2: back again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, in this day. That's totally a different day

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Speaker 1: because we don't just record in a row. Why would

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Speaker 1: someone record for three hours in a row? That's a

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Speaker 1: really long time. Sophie's our producer. Hi, Sophie, Hi, And.

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Speaker 3: I think it was inevitable a sports thing, as your

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Speaker 3: producer is me and your editor is Ian Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Chiv is a science fiction author who

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Speaker 1: you all can read stories by. I've done it. I

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Speaker 1: approve of reading shifts stories. And one of the stories

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Speaker 1: that's not science fiction, even though it has a superhero,

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Speaker 1: is the story of Gama, which we is going to

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Speaker 1: mean nothing to you if you don't go back and

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Speaker 1: listen to part one. But who would do that? Who

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Speaker 1: would look at an episode that literally says part two

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Speaker 1: is the first thing in the title and think that's

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Speaker 1: where I'm going to start, Because it's not where I

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Speaker 1: would start, because I can't even read comic books because

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Speaker 1: they're not in order, and I can't do it. I can't.

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Speaker 1: I have to start at the beginning of things. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you all are with this. Can you

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Speaker 1: go non linearly into stories?

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Speaker 2: Not at all?

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Speaker 1: He's shaking. Yeah, yeah, it's very.

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Speaker 2: Hard for me. But if you listening and you really

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Speaker 2: don't want to go click the other one because you

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Speaker 2: like our voices that much, you don't want to be

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Speaker 2: denied them for a second. For this way, Gama was

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Speaker 2: cool wrestler, and he did a bunch of cool things.

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Speaker 2: We let him being part of a group that was

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Speaker 2: going to London to wrestle. If you want to know

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Speaker 2: why that's a big deal, then you got to listen

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Speaker 2: to the previous episode. We're going to pick it up

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Speaker 2: when he lands in London.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it when he does with the others.

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Speaker 2: They landed about nineteen ten, and the reception they got

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Speaker 2: was a lot different than the one they'd been led

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Speaker 2: to expect, I think because ben.

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Speaker 1: Jon was really nice to them and no one was racist.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was just talking about the fact that that

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Speaker 2: actually is contextually true in the sense that they were

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Speaker 2: Weirdly enough, the reception was in many ways less racist

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Speaker 2: than you might be led to expect, although obviously it

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Speaker 2: was Okay, yeah, one weird side effect or some whatever

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Speaker 2: you want to call it of the whole thing was

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Speaker 2: like their biggest a lot of their biggest supporters during

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Speaker 2: this entire trip were conservative magazines and publications, and that

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Speaker 2: is not how I expect conservative magazines and publications to

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Speaker 2: react in general too, foreign people arriving in your land irrespective.

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Speaker 1: Of m Yeah, and how did that happen?

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Speaker 2: R I don't know. I don't actually have a good

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Speaker 2: explanation for it, like at any level, but it is

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Speaker 2: what it is, and so I am cut bound to

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Speaker 2: report it as it was. Okay, okay, So but yeah,

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Speaker 2: the thing, like, I get the feeling for Benjamin he

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Speaker 2: was like one of those promoters, Like he had the

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Speaker 2: hallmark of all truly bad agents and promoters, which is

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Speaker 2: that he was way better at selling his own clients

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Speaker 2: on stuff than he wasn't selling the public on his clients.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and although he was actually really much better at

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Speaker 2: selling his clients on themselves than he was at selling

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Speaker 2: the public on his clients. Yeah, is perhaps a better

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Speaker 2: way to put it. So in any case, there were

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Speaker 2: like no reality because for matches with the Indian Rushes,

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Speaker 2: so they showed up and they're just like sitting cooling

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Speaker 2: their heels waiting, you know. They established quarters in a routine,

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Speaker 2: and they actually took a cook with them from India,

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Speaker 2: so they were getting their food and everything. That was

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Speaker 2: like an integral part of the whole deal apparently. So

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Speaker 2: this went on for so long that Health and Strength

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Speaker 2: magazine even ran a story on them. It was This

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Speaker 2: is interesting for those of you who follow professional wrestling.

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Speaker 2: It was called the Indian Invasion and professional wrestling all right,

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Speaker 2: so invasion storylines are a big deal. They happen all

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Speaker 2: the time. Honestly, maybe the first time reference to it

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Speaker 2: was used to actually like try and sell a match.

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Speaker 2: So this may have been the birth of the concept

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Speaker 2: of the invasion storyline in wrestling. And as you'll see,

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Speaker 2: the hid the Golden Bell. Sorry go ahead, yes, Like

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Speaker 2: if you want to draw the lines, they're there.

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Speaker 1: Oh I do. I don't know if it's real or not,

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Speaker 1: but I want to draw the line exactly.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, so this article by health instance tries to

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Speaker 2: drum up interest in finding people to like face them

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Speaker 2: in fights. Like there's a long description of their routine,

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Speaker 2: in their training, their diet. It makes it the point

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Speaker 2: that they don't use dumbells or any modern equipment. And

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Speaker 2: basically everyone who came into contact with their lifestyle and

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Speaker 2: training and diet was immediately like blown away. Over the years,

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Speaker 2: it still happens. And part of the article was a

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Speaker 2: challenge printed there by the Indians to all comers, in

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Speaker 2: which there was a particular promise by Gama that he

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Speaker 2: would throw three men of any weight off their feet

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Speaker 2: in thirty minutes, and if he failed, he would pay

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Speaker 2: five sovereigns from his own salary to anyone who does

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Speaker 2: not who he did not. In fact, if anyone could

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Speaker 2: prove that they arrived and they would deny the chance

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Speaker 2: to compete against him, he would pay the five from

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Speaker 2: his own earnings. And hell yeah, So this is actually

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Speaker 2: like a good example of why Benjamin was basically a

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Speaker 2: shit promoter, because a good promoter would never have allowed

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Speaker 2: this to happen because by doing this, what they were

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Speaker 2: doing is they were kind of intruding a lot into

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Speaker 2: the world of professional wrestling, which is where you have

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Speaker 2: challenges of this nature because like people who weren't into

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Speaker 2: professional wrestling, they generally like conduct the business a little

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Speaker 2: bit differently. So professional wrestling itself was like in a

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Speaker 2: fledgling stage in England right now. They had been like

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Speaker 2: one successful tour with George Hackenschmidt earlier, but like it

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Speaker 2: was basically like a music hall, show business kind of

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Speaker 2: thing at this point, right and the Indians and Gama

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Speaker 2: especially were not here to do anything of that sort.

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Speaker 2: Like they wanted to like fight people and win like

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Speaker 2: in genuine fights. They did not care like how good

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Speaker 2: it was or what the takings were, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, for a while, like the only offers they

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Speaker 2: were getting were like basically to do with matches of

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Speaker 2: this sort, which they were not doing. So essentially there

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Speaker 2: was no traction.

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Speaker 1: In fact, is that because people were like is that

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Speaker 1: because people were afraid to fight them because they knew

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Speaker 1: they would lose, Or is that because people were like, no,

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Speaker 1: we want to do weird stage stuff because we want

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Speaker 1: to wear costumes and be like the Americans or like

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Speaker 1: what's happening.

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Speaker 2: Well, at this point, it's like no one's ever heard

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Speaker 2: of these guys, So like the reputed guys are like,

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Speaker 2: why should we wrestle these guys who nobody's ever heard of,

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Speaker 2: Like they've never done anything, And the only guys who

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Speaker 2: want to wrestle them are the guys who want to

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Speaker 2: put on a show. And so these guys don't want

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Speaker 2: to put on a show, they want to like wrestle

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Speaker 2: the guys who are like champions and so on and

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Speaker 2: so forth, Like they've basically come here to leave with

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Speaker 2: the title of best wrestler in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's his plan.

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Speaker 2: That's how they sell him on going here, is like

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Speaker 2: you will get to face European champions and prove you

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Speaker 2: are the greatest in the world. Right, And I'm sure

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Speaker 2: the fact he had those three draws weighed on it.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, so to a large extent, like the interest

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Speaker 2: in the Indians was basically confined to papers, and a

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Speaker 2: large amount of that was basically to do with their diet, Like, oh,

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Speaker 2: can let me give you an instance, like Gama's daily

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Speaker 2: diet has been recorded as the following I'm going to

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Speaker 2: read this out because I wrote it down because it's

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Speaker 2: so exceptional. Six chickens are an extract of eleven pounds

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Speaker 2: of mutton mixed to a quarter pounds of clarified butter,

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Speaker 2: ten liters of milk, half a liter of fruit juice,

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Speaker 2: and other ingredients to promote good digestion, pound and a

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Speaker 2: half of crushed almond paste made into a tonic drink,

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Speaker 2: and another half a liter of clarified butter. This was

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Speaker 2: the daily diet.

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Speaker 1: You know, And this has gone a long way from

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Speaker 1: his plant based days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's it's essense like high fat, have protein,

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Speaker 2: high car yeah, everything, and it basically to train at

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Speaker 2: that level, you have to do this and yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: his training was the other part that was blowing people away.

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Speaker 2: Like Percy Longerst was like a writer on boxing especially

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Speaker 2: but also he was actually big supporter of the Indians

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Speaker 2: being in and people and trying to like make people

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Speaker 2: fight them and stuff. And he was a huge fan

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Speaker 2: of them. And he showed up once to like write

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Speaker 2: a story and he tells the story of how like

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Speaker 2: he wanted to talk to Gama, but the manager was

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Speaker 2: like Gama's just gone out to training, so he's like,

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Speaker 2: I'll wait, I have half an hour, and everybody starts

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Speaker 2: laughing at him. So then he apparently goes out to

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Speaker 2: the field and he sees Gama starting to do these

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Speaker 2: squads and he's like, at some point, it's like it's

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Speaker 2: just going on and just going on. So then he

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Speaker 2: starts timing so that he times it for another twenty minutes.

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Speaker 2: Then he goes back inside, does an entire conversation with

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Speaker 2: another journalist, leaves, and he's like, why when I left,

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Speaker 2: that guy was still going so like, yeah, so Gama

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Speaker 2: was like known to do some extremely intense thining, Like

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Speaker 2: I think he used to do his actual like training

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Speaker 2: routine back in India used to be like used to

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Speaker 2: do about like four thousand of these a day, about

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Speaker 2: three thousand of these push ups a day, and then

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Speaker 2: he used to wrestle thirty other wrestlers every day, like

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Speaker 2: he do thirty bouts a day or training. This is

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Speaker 2: daily training.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as the story goes, Gama has never lost about

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Speaker 2: in training ever, Like he's literally never lost about all right,

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Speaker 2: which is pretty intense right anyway, So at this point,

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Speaker 2: like these writers who are marveling at this kind of

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Speaker 2: stuff are like the only support they have. In fact,

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Speaker 2: like John Bull, which is like a pretty conservative magazine,

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Speaker 2: they were like full on in support of like the

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Speaker 2: Indian wrestling and so on. Like I still don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: Is it because they like wanted the Westerners to like

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Speaker 1: win and prove something or was it just like we

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Speaker 1: like manly stuff and let's be honest, these guys are

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Speaker 1: pretty manly.

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Speaker 2: Well I don't because I don't understand it genuinely, because

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Speaker 2: like they would carry articles about stuff like bemoaning the

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Speaker 2: lack of opponents and saying shame on you for not

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Speaker 2: being willing to face these guys and talk, and then

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Speaker 2: talk about how Gama had like lots of offers to

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Speaker 2: take part in like you know, take a fall for

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Speaker 2: money and take part in professional wrestling, and he would

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Speaker 2: refuse because he refused to understand the concept even Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then in this article they also carry like another

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Speaker 2: challenge from Gama, like ironically yeah, in which he lays

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Speaker 2: out even higher stakes and he also like started naming

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Speaker 2: famous wrestlers by name, like Frank Gotch who's American, a

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Speaker 2: guy called Stanislaw Zibisco who's like a big deal in Europe,

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Speaker 2: like I think it was Jack. The other people challenged

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Speaker 2: by Gama in this in this were the world and

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Speaker 2: in GPS Japanese wrestling, and he vowed that he would

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Speaker 2: throw thirty Japanese wrestlers in sixty minutes. He also said,

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Speaker 2: the Japanese champion, I will throw you ten times in

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Speaker 2: thirty minutes for one hundred bucks a pop. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it was like this. So this time the challenges

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Speaker 2: seem to have worked because like they started getting some matches,

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Speaker 2: and they started and they started doing like spectacular stuff

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Speaker 2: already it's patches. Like so there's this one match against

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Speaker 2: like the Scottish guy and he's about like fifty six

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Speaker 2: pounds heavier than Gama, and then apparently Gama they start

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Speaker 2: like the guy flips him almost immediately. So this guy

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Speaker 2: decides at that point, look, I'm not gonna win, but

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lose. So what I'll do is like

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Speaker 2: he has to put my shoulders on my back, my

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Speaker 2: back down. So she decides to like hug the mat

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Speaker 2: like this, like face.

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Speaker 1: Down, and the Scottish guy does the.

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Speaker 2: Scottish guy yeah, okay, crab turtle position whatever. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: so Gaba apparently grabs him by the way, he just

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Speaker 2: flips him around. It's over, so like he doesn't have

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Speaker 2: any problem like flipping this guy with like fifty six

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Speaker 2: pounds eaverier than him. Gama's about two hundred pounds. Just yeah,

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Speaker 2: this guy's about two fifty six. Okay, So this stuff happens,

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Speaker 2: so like there's a little bit of buzz happening around,

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Speaker 2: like oh cool cool. Essentially, like what basically happens is

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Speaker 2: this is what he had done to Gulab, and Gulam

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Speaker 2: didn't have a count and it happened. So at this

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Speaker 2: point they actually get one big ticket kind of like opponent,

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Speaker 2: which is an American his name. This is a wrestler

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Speaker 2: called Benjamin doc Roller. Now doc Roller is a very

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Speaker 2: interesting character. We've described a few people as colorful so far,

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Speaker 2: like and he's up there with all of them. So

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Speaker 2: he's apparently a real doctor, like he got his degree

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania or something. But he was also really fond

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Speaker 2: of like wrestling and like American football, and at some

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Speaker 2: point he decided that breaking bones was more suited to

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Speaker 2: his temperament than mending them, so he decided to do

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Speaker 2: this instead. Even though he was a doctor.

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Speaker 1: Usually people go the other way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so apparently fairly good wrestlers, like he's quite renowned

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and public perception England was on

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Speaker 2: rollers side because he's the established name. Now, in truth,

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Speaker 2: there was actually a massive gulf between like these wrestlers

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Speaker 2: and the Indian wrestlers, and the only people really realized it,

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Speaker 2: like Sporting Life and some of the media, Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: do you think they wrote about like doing training for

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Speaker 2: this fight. Like there's a fairly well regarded English wrestler

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Speaker 2: who got into sort of a scrap and they like,

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Speaker 2: let's settle it in the ring with essentially the guy

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Speaker 2: who was considered the weakest of the Indian wrestlers, of

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Speaker 2: whom Gama was considered the strongest. So these two guys

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Speaker 2: meet and he's like, the Indian guy won it in

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Speaker 2: six seconds. Yeah, and then he's like, subsequently, we watched

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Speaker 2: training the guy who won in six seconds, Gama demolished

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Speaker 2: that guy in like under two minutes. So like that

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Speaker 2: is the gulf between like their best and like whatever

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Speaker 2: our middle.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, because these people are this is all

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Speaker 1: the age of five. Yeah, that is all they are.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they are people and they have their motions

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Speaker 1: and stuff, right, but like they live and breathe this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and everyone else is like, this is my career. It

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Speaker 1: is just yeah, it's a massive difference.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway, there's a perception that this fight with

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Speaker 2: Roller was for something called a John Bull tournament. It's

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Speaker 2: an error, like John Bull sponsored the fight and put

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Speaker 2: up a like a prize, but there was like no

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Speaker 2: belt anything. So I feel like there's a good time

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Speaker 2: to correct that. It was like a two out of

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Speaker 2: three falls fight, which basically means you got to pin

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Speaker 2: your opponent two times, and like whoever gets two pins

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Speaker 2: out of the three attempts you'll fight in will be

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Speaker 2: the winner. No stranglehold, no full nelson. There was some

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Speaker 2: of that, and I think this isn't about August at

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Speaker 2: this point, where we've reached August of the year twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen ten. Okay, at the way, Gama is about two

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Speaker 2: hundred poundstone. This guy what's his name rollers about two

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Speaker 2: hundred and I would say thirty five or so pounds.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going.

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Speaker 2: To and be as brief as I can about the fight.

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Speaker 2: The record of the fight shows that like the first

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Speaker 2: pin happened in one minute forty seconds for Gama. But

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Speaker 2: this actually doesn't point out the fact like he had

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Speaker 2: two earlier pins within the one minute forty seconds which

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Speaker 2: were considered out of bounds. So anyway, so after this,

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Speaker 2: Roller comes back again for the next round, which takes

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Speaker 2: about nine minutes.

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Speaker 1: All right, wow, okay, yeah that's a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the fight's done in about ten minutes. Like,

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Speaker 2: and after the fight, Roller was like, I broke my ribs,

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Speaker 2: which is why in the one of those first two falls,

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Speaker 2: which is why I couldn't do well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now this is where it gets interesting because among rollers

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Speaker 2: many talents was breaking ribs every time he lost it something.

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Speaker 2: It's like there was a newspaper that once put it

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to quote here. Doc has broken ribs

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Speaker 2: in London, Seattle, Philadelphia, and several other seaports, both in

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Speaker 2: football and in wrestling, and last night honored Ottawa, the

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Speaker 2: capital of Ontario, by having his slats cracked there.

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Speaker 1: So did you grow up with the Probably not. The

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Speaker 1: middle school kids are very aware and of Marilyn Manson

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Speaker 1: removing one of his own ribs. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is all I'm thinking about when this guy just

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Speaker 1: really wants to get rid of his ribs as fast

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Speaker 1: as possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, all right, so here's the thing. He did

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Speaker 2: go to the hospital at Charing Cross after the govern match,

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Speaker 2: but he had visited hospitals in the past for his

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Speaker 2: fake ribs, so there's that. However, he did obtain a

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Speaker 2: doctor's certificate this time, saying his sixth and seventh ribs

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Speaker 2: oh it, seventh and eighth were cracked.

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Speaker 1: So wait, so he's mostly lying about getting his ribs broken,

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Speaker 1: but Gama actually broke his ribs.

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Speaker 2: Well possibly, but I just want to point out he

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Speaker 2: was like a doctor.

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Speaker 1: Oh so probably.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying, all these options are on the table.

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Speaker 2: You can believe what you choose to believe. Like it is,

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Speaker 2: I think this is about.

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Speaker 1: A good time to believe the Marilyn Manson version.

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Speaker 2: Like, I just think this is a good time to

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Speaker 2: get off this roller coaster. Yeah. And uh, anyway, so

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00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 2: after the end of that match, uh, like literally, I

347
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 2: mean like literally immediately after the end of that match,

348
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 2: a guy emerges from the crowd like shakes gaba By

349
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 2: and congratulates him, and suddenly an announcer calls out that

350
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Speaker 2: this stranger is going to be facing Gama soon, Okay,

351
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Speaker 2: And it turns out this stranger is the famous Stanislaw Zibisco.

352
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Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's the maybe check guy you mentioned earlier.

353
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Speaker 2: Yeah, is there a check of Polish one of the two? Okay,

354
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Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure anyway, Zibisco is one of the

355
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 2: most fascinating characters in maybe European history in a lot

356
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Speaker 2: of ways. Like he's essentially he was a strong man

357
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Speaker 2: in Poland I think it was a well, either Poland

358
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Speaker 2: of Czechoslovak which when it was. And then at some

359
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 2: point he gets into Greco Roman wrestling and he gets

360
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 2: really really good at it, Like he wins a bunch

361
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Speaker 2: of like he wins tournaments and stuff. Like he's considered

362
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Speaker 2: like the European Greco Roman Champa. He was widely considered

363
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 2: by many people to be the greatest defensive wrestler in

364
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Speaker 2: the world. Like, apparently getting Zibisco off his feet was

365
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Speaker 2: like basically impossible. It's really or at least really really

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Speaker 2: hard to do. He there was a whole debate happening

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Speaker 2: whether it was him or Frank Gotch is the best

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Speaker 2: wrestler in the world and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like.

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Speaker 2: What happens is At some point, Zibisco partners up with

371
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Speaker 2: a promoter called Charles Cochran who's like, he's like the

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Speaker 2: huckster's hustler.

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Speaker 1: Really okay, this guy.

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Speaker 2: So they decide to do a series of fights in England,

375
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Speaker 2: right Greco Roman Champion and stuff. And then at one

376
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Speaker 2: of these fights, this Turkish guy shows up whose name

377
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Speaker 2: is Kadim Suliman, and Kaim Suliman calls himself the Champion

378
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: of the Bosphorus. His father is a wealthy carpet dealer.

379
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Speaker 2: He's there with his manager and he's really really rude

380
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Speaker 2: to Zubisco and challenges him to a fight. Okay, they

381
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 2: work it out risk you know, there's negotiations for several days.

382
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 2: They meet at the offices of a paper to negotiate it,

383
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: break off negotiations. Finally a fight is set. Fight eventually happens,

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Speaker 2: and it's like it's dogwater. Everyone hates it. It's boring

385
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Speaker 2: as hell. Yeah, it's bad. After the fight, someone leaks

386
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Speaker 2: to the papers that there is no Korean Suleiman. The

387
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 2: guy who was supposed to be Korean Suliman, son of

388
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Speaker 2: Turkish carpet dealer, Champion of the Bosphorus was this Bulgarian wrestler,

389
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Speaker 2: which it turns out was in the employee of Zibisco.

390
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Speaker 2: His current address was Zibisco's previous address. His bills and

391
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Speaker 2: mail were being forwarded to Zibisco's current address.

392
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Speaker 1: So the world of professional wrestling is sneaking hands of

393
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Speaker 1: the world of actual wrestling.

394
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Charles Cocks, like, you can smell the man

395
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 2: at work here, So that happens right like now. The

396
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Speaker 2: reason I'm mentioning all this is I feel like one

397
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Speaker 2: of the reasons Zivisco is taking up this challenge from

398
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Speaker 2: Gama is I think he wanted to re establish a

399
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Speaker 2: little bit of his own credibility because.

400
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because he just he did some bullshit and got caught.

401
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 2: It is interesting that at later points in his life

402
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 2: Zisco basically became a professional wrestler. He's considered one of

403
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 2: the greatest professional wrestlers all the time. Okay by some

404
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: I don't know by some at least. Uh Anyway, So

405
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 2: now what's happening is my aman Ziisco is going to

406
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 2: be facing Grama. But before that, Gama's younger brother we

407
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: mentioned name, his name is Imam Bucksh. He has to

408
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 2: face this well, we very well regarded Swiss wrestler called

409
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Speaker 2: Johann Lem Okay, I'm now going to challenge myself by

410
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 2: trying to make our conversation about that fight shorter than

411
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Speaker 2: the fight. It's going to be hard because the fight

412
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: itself was one minute in four seconds. But basically Lim

413
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 2: tried everything he had. He tried the whole hug the

414
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: matt thing, and what he did is this covered that

415
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 2: imam box is considered the greatest on the ground wrestler

416
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: India has ever produced. And essentially, yeah, so it was over.

417
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: So at this point, like the entire buzz around the

418
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: visit of these guys has shifted, like your financials are

419
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 2: starting to get what they want because people are starting

420
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Speaker 2: to talk about like who's going to beat these guys?

421
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: But you know who else people are talking about? Sorry,

422
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: I just have to do this about the twenty minute mark.

423
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Speaker 1: The other thing people are talking about is these screaming

424
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Speaker 1: deals on screaming supplies. This show is brought to you

425
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: by all of the supplies that you need for screaming,

426
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: including throat coat, tea and what else doeaming for screaming. Man,

427
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Speaker 1: you're going to rescue me with this bit Sophie, you're

428
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: gonna whiskey? Are we brought deep by alcohol?

429
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Speaker 3: Are we allowed to be brought I was just saying water, oh, water, Eh.

430
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Speaker 1: Sophie was miming drinking or whiskey. I don't know.

431
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 3: It depends on who you are.

432
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Speaker 1: With honey in it. That's me when I record for

433
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Speaker 1: my metal band, I don't do the screaming. Laura does

434
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Speaker 1: the screaming. She just sits there with a thing of

435
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: honey and in between takes just downs honey out of

436
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: the bear. And that's what we're brought to you by

437
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: is long winded advertising breaks like this one. And we're

438
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 1: back and we're not talking about screaming really or are we?

439
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: I don't know.

440
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: I'm not the one with the script. Could be a

441
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: screaming match. I'm not sure.

442
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 2: Screaming is appropriate. Because when we left, we were talking

443
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: about how they entire buzz had shifted around the Indian

444
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: wrestler's visit to London. Yeah, and now people are worrying

445
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: about who People in London were worrying about who's going

446
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: to beat them. So there was like letters to the

447
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: editors and articles still lamenting about how they could not

448
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 2: even find a white man to face them, so on

449
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 2: and so forth. You know, it was like right wing

450
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: Twitter before Twitter. Yeah, so that stuff is happening. And

451
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: there was one editorial at least about how this was

452
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: affecting morale of subjects back in India.

453
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's what I'm there for.

454
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: Huh. So your financials were basically who wanted to like

455
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: strike a blow at the heart of vampire and all

456
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: that they were getting exactly what they wanted at this point.

457
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

458
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, your Zibisco fight looms and on this day John

459
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: Bull comes through with two hundred and fifty pounds and

460
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: a belt, a belt as well this time.

461
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: Okay, so.

462
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: The fight starts and remember we have now the greatest defensive.

463
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: The Brothers fighter. Yeah, this is the this is this

464
00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: is Brothers fighting.

465
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: Gama has done.

466
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: It was one minute okay long, you're right. So this

467
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: is Kama versus the check guy who's trying to or

468
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: polish guy. He's trying to reclaim his reputation.

469
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a Bisco. So anyway, this remember and remember

470
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: this is the guy who's supposed to one of the

471
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 2: greatest defensive wrestlers in the world, where yeah, you can't

472
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: get him off his speech. If you get him off

473
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: his feet, you can't pin him that kind of thing.

474
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: Anyway, how long is he last?

475
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: So he's on the ground within the first minute. At

476
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: this point he goes back to the turtle technique. Okay,

477
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: for some reason, Gama is not able to flip him.

478
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: So then what follows is like a real farts for

479
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: about like two plus hours where this guy hugged from

480
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: that everything like and almost nothing happens, and then like

481
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: Gama will do something, the ref will say something, Gama

482
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: will stand away, this guy will stay there. And then

483
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: every so like maybe like once or twice doing the

484
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 2: whole fight, this guy stood back up. They'd lock up.

485
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: Within like a second or two, he'd be back down

486
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: and face down.

487
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: Just don the turtle mode again.

488
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And the crowd was really not enjoying it

489
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: at all, like they hated it.

490
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: But I'm enjoying it because I don't have to watch it.

491
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: It's just funny.

492
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, it was declared a draw after two

493
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: hours and fifteen.

494
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: Shit, all right, because he can't get unturtled.

495
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: Yes, and so this is the greatest offensive fighter of

496
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: all time. This and the three draws against Rahim Sultaniola

497
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: are the only non wins of Gama's fighting career. Damn.

498
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 2: All right, so it's a big deal.

499
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: He's very upset he can't beat the turtle.

500
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: So what he said later was like it was a

501
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: language issue, like there were certain holes which were barred,

502
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: and he was like every time i'd grab him, like

503
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: the ref would say something, I was like, oh, maybe

504
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: that's an illegal hole, and I'd let go and I

505
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: turned off the ref. Yeah. So anyway, and the rematch

506
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: was set because the draw was very unsatisfying, and at

507
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: the rematch, Zubiscu didn't show up.

508
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will show up if I had just embarrassed

509
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: myself by being a turtle for two hours.

510
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. So like Zibiscown, for his part, claims that the

511
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: reason he didn't show up is because he didn't get

512
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: his promise share of the gate receipts from the first fight.

513
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay happen.

514
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: And then he claimed that when the rematch happened, he

515
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 2: wasn't even in the country. But I don't know there

516
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: was a rematch and he wasn't there, so like then

517
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: choose your destiny. Yeah, anyway, and he of course declared

518
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: that in or he didn't declare that in nineteen eleven

519
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: I will face Garma there's a rematch, but obviously nineteen

520
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: eleven that never really happened.

521
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: Okay.

522
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 2: Anyway, soon after like all this just as suddenly as

523
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: they arrived, the Indian wrestlers, like one day they were

524
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 2: packed up and they were gone back to India. Why

525
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: is not super clay. Maybe they got tired of England.

526
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: Maybe the benefactor decided that, like you know, the civil

527
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: independence movement and stuff was growing, Maybe that was a

528
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: better use of his time and money. Then maybe he

529
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: thought that the achieved the objective had been achieved. Any case,

530
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: the era of like wrestling as the fountainhead or the

531
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 2: sphere tip of like the counterpropaganda movement was pretty much

532
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: like drawing to a close at this point. Okay, maybe

533
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 2: for the reasons I have just discussed with you, like

534
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: there was like actual active movements happening, and this like

535
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: soft method was not needed anymore. Kind of point has

536
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: been proved, we believe now people believe now it's time

537
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: to take back that kind of thing.

538
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

539
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: It does leave us with the question, which you've kind

540
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: of talked about several times and answered like that what

541
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: is really interesting is like this generation of like wrestling

542
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: obsessed powerful investors, the investments they made, the old system

543
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: that had been like being perfected for like generations and

544
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: hundreds of years, right one knowing it, all these combined

545
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: to basically give India like the greatest wrestling training system

546
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: in the world, which they almost would not have even

547
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: known it was the greatest in the world if it

548
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: wasn't for like this specific like confluence of circumstances. And

549
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: it's just very interesting to think about to me personally,

550
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: like as a wrestling nerd.

551
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: Then yeah, who knows. You're saying that the British Empire

552
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: was good.

553
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying the wrestling was good.

554
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: I'm just fucking with you. Sorry.

555
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: So anyway, at this point, like Gama goes back, he's

556
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: back in India and he doesn't really have a lot

557
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: of opponents left in India. He's basically come back as

558
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: like Zaman, which is like world champion but I but

559
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: interesting enough, he's still not Indian champion because he hasn't

560
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: won that fight. Oh yeah, he's one of those rare

561
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: guys who has the world championship but not the Indian championship.

562
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: I mean that kind of tracks with everything you're just

563
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 1: saying about how India was the place that the greatest.

564
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So anyway, so time comes they talk about

565
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: like yet another re Actually they got to settle this.

566
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: But basically what happens is in the interim, like I

567
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: told you, like Gama had a lot of personal tragedies,

568
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: and one of them was like he had about five

569
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: or six sons and he lost almost all of them

570
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: to various elements and illnesses. Yeah yeah, yeah, he was married, Okay,

571
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: He's right, Like he was devout Muslim, like you take

572
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: time out to do his namas every day. Also, so

573
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: at one point, like he was apparently so grief stricken

574
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: he didn't speak for weeks and like apparently all that

575
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: brought him back is again wrestling, practicing and all that.

576
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: So anyway, finally in about nineteen hundred and ten, I

577
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: think twelve, like depending on the source you believe, the

578
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: fight happened in Alaba, yes way could we you know?

579
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: And this time Rayammala had spent his time training with Ramamurti,

580
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: who I've mentioned earlier. Remember wrote the Treaties on Physical

581
00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: Education and went around lecturing for this fight. So for

582
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: this fight. When he shows up, he'd like covered himself

583
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: in like red ochre dust. So depending on like the

584
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: version you read, he's been variously I'm talking about I

585
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: hear the giant was about seven feet tall, so he's

586
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: been verisedly described as looking like a demon or a

587
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: devil when he showed up because he was like covered

588
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: in red dust.

589
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't fuck with a seven foot hand covered

590
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: as a general rule.

591
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So at this point the everyone is like fed

592
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 2: up of the draws, So like, you guys are going

593
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: to fight. We don't care how long it takes. Nobody

594
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: gets to cancel this thing. Yeah, so it went on

595
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: for like three hours at one point.

596
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: Reference, I just want to point that out. And I

597
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: was a good one next thanks, So what at one

598
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: point Raheem actually like ran away and was chased by

599
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: Gama around the arena and like back into the ring.

600
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: All this shit happens at the end of it, like

601
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: when the dust settles, literally, Gama is finally the champion,

602
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: like he's finally done it. Like how long how long

603
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: did it take from.

604
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: His first So the first time they met was like

605
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: what nineteen hundred Oh no, no, I.

606
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Mean this match three hours, okay, I was switched to

607
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: basically yeah, yeah, yeah, I am so.

608
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: At this point, like he's also like the domestic champ,

609
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: so like he's basically got nothing left, like so his

610
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: fights are basically sporadic at this point. In nineteen sixteen,

611
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: he met a guy called Pundit Bidu who was leading

612
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: Hindu wrestler, and he crushed him easily so that he

613
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: still was that guy. In nineteen eighteen, he passed on

614
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 2: his roostoma in thinking to his brother saying like you

615
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: are the champion.

616
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: Now I'm chilling just because he's like bored of it.

617
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: He's like yeah, okay, so he's basically having said that,

618
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: Like Imam Baksh is like considered, like as I mentioned

619
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: with Glangri, one of the most technically perfect. He's considered

620
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: the best ground wrestler ever, and like he proved it

621
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: like with a LEMP fight. Like there have been like people,

622
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: especially if you want to be an edge lord, like

623
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: these circles and these discussions. One very edge lord thing

624
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: is to say that is that it is to say

625
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: that Immam Bucks should have flipped Zibbi's school. But no,

626
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: because like here's the other thing, Like this was going

627
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: like eighty pounds or ninety pounds heavier than Gama. Like

628
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: trust me, Like doing that to two hundred and fifty

629
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: a guy who's fifty pounds more than he was a

630
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: lot doing it someone like eighty is like just not possible. Yeah,

631
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: it's just anyway. But if you want to be an

632
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: edge lord, it's a good way to go. Like it's

633
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: like high, it's like high level posting.

634
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: Okay.

635
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: Anyway, So what happens next that's the most note is

636
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: that people start talking about the rematch with Zibbis Scoo,

637
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: who is his other great rival in his life, because

638
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: that's the other time that was the draw. So because

639
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: of the draw. So at this point, yes, so the

640
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: coming to India, No, that's a good point. The buzz

641
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: is about him coming to India. And in about nineteen

642
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: twenty seven, the Maraja of Patiala announces that he has

643
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: created this match. Zibisco is going to come to India.

644
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: He's going to face Garma on his native soil. He's

645
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: going to do so in a grand pavilion that the

646
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: Maharaja will build, and the pavilion will house eighty thousand people.

647
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, it's gonna be decorated with turtles because just

648
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: to celebrate Batman when he shows up. So in yes,

649
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: I finally got shipped a laugh trying Okay, anyway.

650
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: Sorry, I've just been like very focused on like no, no, no, no,

651
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 2: you're doing great.

652
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

653
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: So anyway, in nineteen twenty eight and not twenty seven,

654
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 2: this happens, and it's a it's in an arena which

655
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: has forty thousand people, not eighty. But Zibisco does come

656
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: and apparently he's got some Is.

657
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: This wild that they're like Normally, when I think of sports,

658
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: I think of people kind of stopping around the time

659
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: they're in their mid thirties in terms of professional level athletes.

660
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: I clear I am an expert in sports, but so

661
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: it seems like this is like kind of impressive that

662
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: people are continuing to compete at the highest level when

663
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: they're he's like forty seven at this point.

664
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. So like yes and no in the sense that

665
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: like they were probably both past their pride at this point,

666
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: honestly speaking, well pasted. And they say fighters never really retired,

667
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 2: They're always coming back for one more fight.

668
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: Yeah no, Muhammadi did that.

669
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think everyone finds it hard to

670
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 2: like walk away after being really good at something.

671
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

672
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: So anyway, so this fight is happening in nineteen twenty

673
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: eight and it's it's basically a who's who of Indian

674
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: royalty and everyone. It was like the met Gala, but

675
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: from Hahajas and lawabs and stuff like that. Okay, like

676
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: they were all there to watch the fight and Zibisco

677
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: gets some obscene burst for it and all that. So

678
00:35:54,520 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: the fight began and Mazuna recorded as a fort to

679
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: second win for Gama, which is interesting life the universe

680
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: and everything that number. But yeah, apparently they grabbed, they

681
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: swung around for a bit, there's an angle and it's over,

682
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: like it's done. Then there's this massive cries all around

683
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: the forty Gamas one India has one. India has one,

684
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: and they carried him off on their shoulders on the

685
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: victory procession. There's a nawab who gifted him with the

686
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 2: silver mace and basically everyone's delighted. There was like extra

687
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: vibe because like you know, he was like considered a

688
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: man of the people for like just going off with

689
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: the crowd instead of hobnobbing with the maharajas. And like

690
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: that fight has had huge cultural impact, like impact at

691
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: levels that he wouldn't even think to associate it all

692
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: the way to like the early nineteen nineties, Like it

693
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: was like almost like standard for like Bollywood villains to

694
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: have this white strongman sidekick, and like half of them

695
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: have been named Zibisco. That's his only name. He doesn't

696
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: have a first team, he does not last name. He's Zibisco.

697
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: In the Hollywood movie, the hero will first be up

698
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: Zibisco before he beats up the actual villain. It's the procession,

699
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: like the order of events. Okay, but like what I'm

700
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: saying is like basically and that that is.

701
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: The guy seems like the turtle guy seems nice, Like,

702
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: oh he seems.

703
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: Like a realized guy. Yeah, yeah, if you like talked,

704
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: if you have actually center, he talks about it like

705
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 2: he really rates Gama very highly, and he clearly the

706
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: fight was so quick. Is that he wasn't used to

707
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: wrestling on mud and on dirt and he slipped.

708
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah that makes sense.

709
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I like one guy's ribs broke allegedly like

710
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: you can you can choose your destiny. I'm gonna keep

711
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: saying that. Yeah, it's Mortal Gombat in story form. So anyway,

712
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: after this incident happened in Gama's basically become pretty much

713
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: like a national treasure, like he's like his national hero

714
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and which was kind of noted

715
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: by this subsequent incident where he wants people to essentially

716
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: get free rain rail travel on this section of on

717
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: this section of Indian railways, and he sends this challenge

718
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 2: to the government saying that I will stop a moving

719
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 2: train on this on this track, and if I succeed,

720
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: you must give everybody free travel. And I dare you

721
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: if you do, if you're not afraid, reply with your answer.

722
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 2: And they did not reply. And again there are various sources. Yeah,

723
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: one sources that they simply didn't reply. Another sources he

724
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: went there on that day to do the stoppage and

725
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: they held off trains that day because they were so

726
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: afraid of Gama. I mean, if you actually read between

727
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: the lines, to me, it looks more like, you know,

728
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: they're quite aware of how things work in Indiana, like

729
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 2: if this guy gets run over by a train, we'll

730
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: have riots.

731
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally.

732
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they probably that was like the purpose of anything,

733
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: but it had it adds to the story right, like, yeah, anyway.

734
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: At this point of sack get people free rail trial traveler.

735
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: Now, no, I don't think it did.

736
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: All right, it's the shot.

737
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: I think the yeah, it was worth a shot, like

738
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: he created the buzz and yeah. And anyway, at this

739
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: point he's just like basically like mostly training and not

740
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 2: even really fighting. It's like the early nineteen thirties. So

741
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: his last fight was this guy called Jesse Peterson who

742
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: basically essentially like finished off pretty in good time. And

743
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: after this he came up with what is basically called

744
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: the Imam Bucks Challenge, which is if you wish to

745
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: face me, you have to defeat Imam Buksh my younger brother.

746
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: And since nobody ever did defeat Imam burg he basically

747
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: meant that Gama at this point had retired without ever retiring.

748
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, so that's what happens.

749
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 2: So at this point in the time, he's just like training

750
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: and stuff. And at this point his nutrition and diet

751
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: come to the attention of this professor who I think

752
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: was in Calcutta University of Howda University something. His name

753
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: is Professor S. Mazumdar or Majumda depending on the source,

754
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 2: and he was a professor of nutrition who wanted to

755
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 2: go and study and studied the way the pehlvans A

756
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: and did their diet, so he went there. In his

757
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: interactions he became so fascinated with the whole thing he

758
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: gave up on nutrition in Ali and became India's foremost

759
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: historian of pelwani wrestling.

760
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 1: Whoa Okay, almost all of.

761
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: The English writing on the subject are people who have

762
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: read Majumdar. He is like the primary source in English

763
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: for a lot of this. He's the guy who went

764
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 2: and read Vernacules, Saurces, met people, did this and all that.

765
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 2: And he said as late as the mid nineteen thirties

766
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: that Gama is easily the greatest wrestlers in the world.

767
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: That he's seen that he was beating all these guys

768
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: in practice. No one has actually seen these practices but him,

769
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: But that is what happened. Although like this whole enrapturement

770
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: with Gama's diet and training is not unique at all, right,

771
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: like Bruce Lee later in his life discovered it, and

772
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: like he incorporate aspects of Gama's like a workout regimen

773
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: and training stuff into his own. So like like God

774
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: wanted a bunch of interesting stuff in that sense, like

775
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: he inspired Bruce Lee, who we'd never heard of, who

776
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: everybody else has.

777
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: But did he use blue Apron? Eh, eh, because he

778
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: could have and saved. I don't even think we're sponsored

779
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: by Blue Apron, so that's not actually advice.

780
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 3: Some of our shows are sponsored by HelloFresh.

781
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: Oh okay, well, my cynicism remains, But are not cynically

782
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: say that you should listen to the people who gave

783
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: us money to let us have you listen to them

784
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: talk about stuff. Here's some ads and we're back, and

785
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: I'm I think that's the last time I have to

786
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: shoehorn in very awkwardly into the middle of a sentence

787
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: of yours. Sorry about that, Please continue.

788
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: It's absolutely fine. So we were talking about SO and

789
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: Bruce Lee and the diet and stuff like that.

790
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So.

791
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 2: He's been interesting, like extremely influential evening in circles you

792
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 2: mightn't expect. For instance, he didn't get a Google Doodle

793
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 2: not that long ago.

794
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Gama Gama did.

795
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: And what I find really cool about that is, like

796
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to be like weird Matt snrd for a second,

797
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 2: Like obviously Google is after like the number of Google

798
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 2: you know, yeah yeah, which yeah, like goin and the

799
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: fact that like Aman Gama died without knowing what either

800
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: of these things ever were just makes him so much

801
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 2: cooler for it.

802
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

803
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: It's like like they cared more about him than he

804
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: cared about them.

805
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

806
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, high school level of cool anyway. Okay, So

807
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: at this point, like we're getting towards like the nineteen

808
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: forties Indian independence, like the movement is getting like towards

809
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: its peak, and the World War began, so there was

810
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 2: also that, right, so what would was once considered a

811
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: very fringe plan now started to become a reality, which

812
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: was like the partition of India and seeing which way

813
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 2: the winds were blowing. You know, he had a bunch

814
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: of wealth and property at this time he dicumulated as career,

815
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 2: but Ghama decided he gave away a bunch of it

816
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: and he moved to Lahore in Pakistan, and he said,

817
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: we wanted to set up a wrestling school there. Okay,

818
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: so obviously, but that doesn't really matter what you plan,

819
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 2: because like when partition happened, like everything was put on hold,

820
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: like when the salms of the British and the subcontinent,

821
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: a renumerated partition of India gets often mentioned, but I

822
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: think the truth like magnitude of it has never really

823
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: discussed yah in western circles, and I don't want to

824
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: spend too much time on it because that would like

825
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: require a whole series of podcasts. But in simple terms,

826
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: like communities that have lived in how many for like

827
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: hundreds of years of being distuted, like entire neighborhoods, just

828
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: a line draw between them and now they are two

829
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: different countries.

830
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

831
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: The largest first migration in human history is generally reckoned

832
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: to being World War Two, which happened over a period

833
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 2: of several years. Number two is Partition, which was completed

834
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: from beginning to end in eighteen months.

835
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is.

836
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: It was just like a ridiculous amount of displacement and

837
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 2: a lot of refugees, like families were torn in half.

838
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: There was also like a whole lot of sectarian religious violence. Yeah,

839
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: and honestly, I don't think the subcurrent ive ever seen

840
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: like religious violence on this scale ever, like not even

841
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: close to before.

842
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: And this is where Gama.

843
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: You know, life filled with great victories and like iconic

844
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 2: moments like scripted perhaps like the most iconic moment of

845
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: his whole life. So there's a colony of One of

846
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: the interesting reverends of the system that the British left

847
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: us is that even today in places like India and Pakistan,

848
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: neighborhoods are referred to by residents as colonies are interesting.

849
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

850
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: So it's like I'm going home to my colony.

851
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: Like just means the town I'm from.

852
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: No, it literally means the neighborhood in the town you're from.

853
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: Oh shit, okay.

854
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: So like it's it's the equivalent of saying I'm going

855
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: back to my neighborhood or my hord or whatever you know. Anyway,

856
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: so these guys find out that there's like a place

857
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: where which is predominantly Hindu, and it's in the line

858
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: of like angry murder mobs. So like Gama vows to

859
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 2: those people that I would protect you. Yeah, he takes

860
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: some of his wrestlers and he goes and stands at

861
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: the at the mouth of the neighborhood. And then in

862
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 2: due course this crowd comes, you know, like their torches,

863
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: angry this, that and the other. Then the.

864
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: Which group is being attacked in which group is doing

865
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: the attacking in this particular.

866
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: Way Hindus are being attacked. I think Muslims are doing

867
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 2: the attacking, and Gama himself, a Muslim, is standing.

868
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: Between them, which is fucking rules.

869
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, so they face off, like this guy

870
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: tells Garma to get out of the way. Gama tells

871
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: this guy, why don't you get out of the way,

872
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. And anyway, so the leader of

873
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 2: the mob or whatever approaches Gama and like he has

874
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 2: a weapon, so he decides to try and hit kamaway

875
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 2: his weapons. According to some sources it was the sword,

876
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: but instead Gama slaps him. Now, depending on which source

877
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 2: you believe, and what I'm telling you has been reported

878
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: by like newspapers across the region, including like national newspapers,

879
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: So this is the official record of what happened, depending

880
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: on which one you believe. When Gama slaps this guy,

881
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 2: he either lost consciousness, died on the spot, or had

882
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: his job broken. All the accounts agree. He goes flying.

883
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

884
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: Someone in a mob recognizes Gama and yells us, hey,

885
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 2: that's Gama, and the entire mob flees hell.

886
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

887
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Now this scene has been redone in like Bollywood

888
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: movies to introduce heroes like for generations since then. Yeah,

889
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 2: but apparently it actually happened.

890
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: But it so it's so good, Like it's such a

891
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: good He spent his entire life building this reputation and

892
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: it's like becoming a folk hero by dedicating himself to

893
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: his craft. And then he the way he used that,

894
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: I'm just I really like this part of the story.

895
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 1: The way he like used that was just to literally

896
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: save a ton of people's lives in a just very

897
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: direct and selfless way. I fucking love it.

898
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, and it gets better because he supposedly escorted

899
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: people to save passage like across the border with his wrestlers,

900
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 2: and he used his personal funds to pay for like

901
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 2: transport for people to want to get out safely.

902
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: That fucking rules, yeah, in rules.

903
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: Like the sad part is Gama himself like actually died

904
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: in poverty, like yeah, in a government hospital. But like

905
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: the other thing about it is like he was like

906
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 2: he actually walked to talk like when you talk about

907
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 2: like the noble warrior among hero Yeah, selfless and like

908
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 2: he actually was that, which is part of why he's

909
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: considered so great. Like he genuinely lived that. Yeah, and

910
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 2: probably he and his brother are like the last bastion

911
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 2: we ever saw of that. Honestly, we're a long way

912
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: from that now. Like, for instance, like I'd be remiss.

913
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: I spent all this time talking about like the nobility

914
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: of Indian wrestling, but like the current Wrestling Federation of

915
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: India head, a political appointee, has been incredibly accused of

916
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: assault by like a lot of wrestlers, non wrestlers women,

917
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 2: and he's being protected by the government. Yeah, so we're

918
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 2: a very long way from the legacy of Gama at

919
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: this point. Yeah, but I don't know if you like

920
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 2: speak of that legacy, it seems like a decent time

921
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 2: to like kind of see how do you pass it

922
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 2: and put this way, Like the records and statistics are

923
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: like this there is ridiculous, Like they just if you

924
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: read them, they do not seem real because they are

925
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: just wired like five thousand fights without a defeat. There's

926
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 2: there's a stone that he's supposedly lifted, which is in

927
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 2: the museum in Baroda. It's in the museum and that

928
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: stone is about twelve hundred kilos. So apparently there's people

929
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: who saw him lift this twelve hundred kilos stone. You know,

930
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: like there's newspapers, like extremely reputable national newspapers telling us, yeah,

931
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: this dude slapped down a mob. This is a report

932
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: of the incident. You know. So you have all this

933
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: stuff which peats that seem literally superhuman.

934
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have the like all.

935
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: A lot of the stuff of his life is on

936
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: the Olympics website. Like these are like reputable sources. These

937
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: are often sources who revel in telling us that hey,

938
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: your hero is not real. And these are the guys

939
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: telling us that hey, Superman's real, this is him.

940
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one is real. Yeah.

941
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: So the way I have come to understand Gama, like

942
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 2: over the course of my life, from viaging his superhis

943
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: a kid to today is like one of two things

944
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 2: is true here. Either he was genuinely like a superhero

945
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: did these incredible things, or he was the greatest storyteller

946
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: who's like we'll ever see again, who convinced the Olympics Committee,

947
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: national newspapers, people who had a vested interest in saying

948
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 2: you're a liar, that he was the real deal. Yeah,

949
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: and in that case as a storyteller. In either case,

950
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: I think that makes him incredibly cool.

951
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, he clearly won a lot of matches.

952
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: Whether or not he won five thousand of them, I

953
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: don't know, but like that he's the real deal at

954
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: the very least in terms of being it seems like

955
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: the greatest wrestler that we've ever seen. Whether or not

956
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: he lifted a twelve hundred kilogram stone or not, I

957
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: don't know. Like he's still the real deal even if

958
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: that one particular thing may or may not have happened

959
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: or whatever.

960
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's like even if you're the kind

961
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: of person like who's just built up like a reputation

962
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:58,919
Speaker 2: enough that like this mob incident happens, like yeah, even

963
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 2: if it's like entirely fabricated, like someone at that paper

964
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: was like if I say Gama did this, it will

965
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 2: be believed. Yeah, and that is it self is an achievement.

966
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: Like let's assume the newspaper light, let's just assume the

967
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: worst case scenario, newspaper made it up out of hope clubs.

968
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 2: That still means that it was considered credible enough that

969
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: this guy would do it, Like I can you name

970
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: me someone else that you would do this about? And

971
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 2: people read me like, yeah, this could have happened.

972
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: Yeah now that yeah, live your life in such a

973
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: way that if you did, if newspapers accused you of

974
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: doing something wildly noble, everyone will believe it.

975
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So, so one way, the other guy was

976
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: a real deal. He did really cool things. Yeah, and

977
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: he was pretty cool. So that is my thesis for

978
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 2: why he should be on this podcast.

979
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: All right, Well, secretly we've been recording the whole time.

980
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: Ah wait, I don't have to come back and do

981
00:51:59,080 --> 00:51:59,479
Speaker 2: this again.

982
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah no. I first, you did a tweet thread about

983
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: Gamma and it was probably about a year ago, and

984
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: I just like reached out. I just started whole people

985
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,479
Speaker 1: did cool stuff, and I was like, I need this

986
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: on the podcast, and I really I don't know. Yeah,

987
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: the story sticks out to me so much because of

988
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: just this like how hyperbolic his like physical capacity was, right,

989
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: but like actually probably was on some level greater than

990
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: I have no doubts that he could just do squats

991
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: all day, right yeah, and then like and then just

992
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 1: like actually using it.

993
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

994
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: I mean it's like the way you're describing this culture,

995
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, the like warrior monk thing that is like

996
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: is largely mythologized, and it's like, you know, the Western

997
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: conception of the night is like comparable protect the I mean,

998
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: usually they're doing absolutely horrible things and stuf, right, but

999
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: this idea of like, oh, you're going to be this

1000
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: person who's gonna like use the fact that you spend

1001
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: all your time training to fight and no one else

1002
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: does to go like help the defenseless or whatever. Like,

1003
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: I just I love seeing that actually happening.

1004
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: It's It's very much comic superhero origin story stuff, isn't it.

1005
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well thanks, uh, thanks for telling me about

1006
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: all this stuff. There's so much more I want to

1007
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: learn about all of this, and I can't believe that

1008
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: slowly I'm being convinced that I think I always on

1009
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: some level knew that sports matter, but like there's still

1010
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: just this part of me that was like, no, I

1011
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: was a trans girled in know it, so I hate

1012
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: a gym class, so therefore sports is bad and like

1013
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: fucking bullshit.

1014
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:51,959
Speaker 2: Sports is great.

1015
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: Question, Yeah exactly, I.

1016
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: Didn't even then like it was my gym. It was

1017
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: my gym. Tpro is a gym teacher at my school

1018
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: who like the way that my school got a gay

1019
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: straight alliance is that these two obviously in retrospect lesbian

1020
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: teachers came up to me and we're like, did you

1021
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: know that teachers can't start student groups. Here's all of

1022
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: the forms for a gay straight alliance, please sign them.

1023
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: And one of them was the gym teacher lady, who

1024
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: was obviously a lesbian in retrospect. So gym teachers even

1025
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: really am just mad at the kids who picked on me.

1026
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: And it's not there. It's not sports fault, not sports,

1027
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: it's there fault. Yeah, society's fault. I don't know. You

1028
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: got anything that you want to plug the ways that

1029
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: people could follow you. What's the name of one of

1030
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 1: your stories that people could go read?

1031
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 2: Well, the last one I have is like, actually, you

1032
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: probably should read that because like, the novel I'm writing

1033
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: is kind of like a sequel to that short story.

1034
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 2: It's called Party a PI. You'll find it on Lightspeed magazine.

1035
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, and you can follow me on the tweet

1036
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 2: machine for as long as it exists. I'm at NAMESHIV.

1037
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 2: I tweet about lots of random stuff, some of which

1038
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: we've covered.

1039
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: Cool. I'm on Twitter still, also at Magpie Killjoy unless

1040
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: you're listening to this far enough in the future where

1041
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: I'm not and instead I am free, and by free

1042
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 1: I mean doing all kinds of other things instead, because

1043
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: I like eating food on a regular basis and so

1044
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: it is my dog. I'm also on Instagram at Margaret Kiljoy.

1045
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: I'm now on Substack at Margaret Kiljoy or not at

1046
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy dot substock dot com. Substack being a newsletter

1047
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: thing where I write an essay every week and a

1048
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: lot of it is like reflections on the history that

1049
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm learning about as I work on this show. Some

1050
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: of it is about preparedness and some of it's just

1051
00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: like memoir and things like that. And what do you got?

1052
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: Can people follow you on things? What if people want

1053
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: to bug you about the ads that you have no

1054
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: control over? How can they?

1055
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 3: Oh, that's that's at I write? Okay on Twitter?

1056
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: Oh okay, cool? What if they don't want to hear

1057
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: ads at all? Can go ahead? Well what was the question?

1058
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: What if they don't want to hear ads at all?

1059
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: Can they follow us?

1060
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1061
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: At Cooler Zone Media Media.

1062
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, on Apple podcasts. Yeah, that's the thing. Just at

1063
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media for all the shows, all the things.

1064
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 3: And if you find my handles on there too, there's

1065
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 3: cute pictures of my dog somewhere.

1066
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: They are cute pictures of a cute dog. And we

1067
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: will talk to you next week with more cool people

1068
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: who did cool stuff. By bye.

1069
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 3: Some People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1070
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1071
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 3: visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out

1072
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1073
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 3: your podcasts.