1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 2: This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault. Please take care 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: while listening. 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 3: I understand what the victims say, and I'm not here 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 3: to try to say that I can stand in their 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 3: shoes or that I can address their concerns. I'm here 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 3: to say we did what we did because we wanted 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 3: to see Epstein go to jail. 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: That was Alex Acosta speaking in twenty nineteen. At the time, 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: Acosta was President Trump's Labor secretary, and he was fielding 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: questions about Jeffrey Epstein, who just days earlier was arrested 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: on allegations of trafficking miners for sex. 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: We believe that we proceeded appropriately. 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: Acosta was under a microscope. A dozen years earlier, he 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 2: had been the US Attorneerney for the Southern District of Florida, 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 2: where he'd overseen a federal investigation into Epstein's crimes. Acosta 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: signed off on the infamous plea deal that ultimately put 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: Epstein in jail on state charges for thirteen months, a 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 2: good chunk of which he spent leaving during the daytime 20 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 2: on work release. 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: The criticism, of course, is that that was a sweetheart deal. 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Legal reporter David vooriacus. 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: That had they indicted Epstein on sex trafficking charges, he 24 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: could have gone to jail or prison for a much 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: longer period than he ended up serving. 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: Acosta was under fire for striking this deal that critics 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: said failed young women and girls, both those who talked 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: to prosecutors working in his office and Epstein's future victims. 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: Acosta resigned the next day. Those criticisms wouldn't have been 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: new to Acosta, though, because during the Epstein investigation, he 31 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: was hearing similar concerns inside his office from the prosecutor 32 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: who led the investigation for more than two years. Her 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: name is Marie Villifania. 34 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: Marie Villafania was a very smart, very determined prosecutor who 35 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: took a distinct point of view that what Jeffrey Epstein 36 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: did was a harm and a threat to the public. 37 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: After Epstein's plea deal, the evidence that Villafania collected through 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: interviews with victims and investigations of Epstein's finances was filed 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: away witness statements, memos, and a sixty count indictment that 40 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: was never brought. But the Justice Department's latest release of 41 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: Epstein filed documents includes a trove of information from Villafania's investigation. 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: She has not spoken publicly. We tried to use this 43 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: as an opportunity to use her words on what happened 44 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: and how she felt about it. 45 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: It's the clearest window yet into what Villa Fania knew 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: about Epstein, what she told her bosses at the time, 47 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: and her growing frustration about how they failed to act. 48 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: There's a number of people along the way who could 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: have put their hand up to stop Jeffrey Epstein in 50 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: his crimes. That's what we're learning through the Epstein files. 51 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: But she was a very determined person early in the 52 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: Epstein saga who did her best to try to stop him. 53 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 54 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News today on the show, the federal prosecutor who 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: took on Jeffrey Epstein, but the Epstein files reveal about 56 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: her findings, her battles with her bosses, and her behind 57 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: the scenes push to stop Epstein. So today we're here 58 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: to talk about Marie Villefania. She's an important character in 59 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: the Jeffrey Epstein story, but we don't often hear much 60 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: about her. Villafania began investigating Epstein in two thousand and 61 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: six when she was assistant US Attorney for the Southern 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: District of Flora, reporting up to Alex Acosta, who is 63 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: the chief prosecutor. David walk us through the chronology of 64 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: the case. 65 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: Well. It started in two thousand and five when the 66 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: parents of a fourteen year old girl went to the 67 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: Palm Beach Police and complained that she was at Epstein's 68 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: mansion and gave him a sexualized massage. The Palm Beach 69 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: Police found a number of girls in similar situations and 70 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: took it to the county District Attorney's office, which ultimately 71 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: charged Epstein with a single count of prostitution. The Palm 72 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: Beach Police chief was dissatisfied with that outcome and then 73 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: went to the FBI, hoping that they would do a 74 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: more thorough investigation. That's how she started on the case 75 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: in May of two thousand and six, and she spent 76 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: a year interviewing more than a dozen girls and developing 77 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: a great deal of corroborating evidence about Epstein. She developed 78 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: a sixty count indictment against Epstein with a variety of crimes, 79 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: including sex trafficking, and she justified it within eighty page 80 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: prosecution memo that described the strengths and weaknesses of the 81 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: case against Epstein, why they should indict, what the risks are, 82 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: what might happen, what might go wrong? Villefania documented that 83 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: Epstein used assistance to recruit local high school girls and 84 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: would offer them two hundred to three hundred dollars to 85 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: give him massages that became sexualized massages. He would fondle 86 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: these girls, sometimes penetrate them with his fingers or a 87 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: vibrator while he masturbated, and sometimes it graduated to oral 88 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: sex and vaginal sex. 89 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: And what exactly did she recommend that her office do well? 90 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: On May first, two thousand and seven, she urgently said, 91 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: we need authority for the FBI to arrest him now 92 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: to protect the public so that this won't go on anymore. 93 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: She didn't get a response to that. Two weeks later, 94 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: she wrote another memo saying, I want you to approve 95 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: this indictment. When I say you, I'm talking about her superiors. 96 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: He remains a threat and that we have information that 97 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: he's going to be traveling from the Virgin Islands to 98 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: New Jersey, and so let's arrest him. 99 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: And how do they respond to her urging that now 100 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: is the time we need to arrest Jeffrey Epstein. 101 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: The response she got was effectively, not so fast. We're 102 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: not ready yet. We haven't made a decision. It's not 103 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: imperative that we do it right this moment. One of 104 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: Villefania's supervisors at the time was named Matt Minchell. He 105 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: was the criminal chief in the Southern District of Florida, 106 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: very well regarded trial attorney had a lot of experience 107 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: doing prosecutions. When she urged her superior to act now, 108 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: Matt Mentchell responded in an email and said, quote, I'm 109 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: having trouble understanding, given how long this case has been pending, 110 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: what the rush is. He went on to say, this 111 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: is obviously a very significant case, and Alex wants to 112 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: take his time making sure he is comfortable before proceeding. 113 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: You write that Menchell left the office shortly after this 114 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: in August two thousand and seven, and according to Villafania's writing, 115 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: she continued to urge her supervisors to move more quickly. 116 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: In her eyes, why was there such urgency? 117 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: She felt that the time was right, that he was 118 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: a billionaire with the means to flee if he were charged, 119 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: and that she felt it was necessary to protect the public. 120 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: She had developed a picture of Epstein, which later investigations 121 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: showed as well that he was a serial predator, and 122 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: I think shet that she had enough evidence to prove 123 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: that in court and it was time to stop that behavior. 124 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: In general, Acosta was reluctant to agree with Villafana that 125 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: this was a federal case. He was hearing arguments from 126 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: the defense that was attacking the credibility of these girls. 127 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: He was wondering whether these were cases that should be 128 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: charged as a prostitution on a state level, or whether 129 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: they were federal sex trafficking cases. And I believe that 130 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: at the time there was more of an attitude that 131 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: it was acceptable to attack the credibility of victims of 132 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: sex crimes than there is today, And in fact, Acossa 133 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: acknowledges that now, twenty years later, that it was more 134 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: prevalent of a practice to attack these girls through cross examination, 135 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: and so what Vilafania was trying to do was determine 136 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: how well they would hold up in the crucible of 137 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: cross examination at a trial where they would be attacked. 138 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: And Epstein was very aggressive at attacking these girls. He 139 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: had quite an impressive roster of defense lawyers who were 140 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: given their mission to defend him very zealously, and they 141 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: did so so. 142 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: In the summer of two thousand and seven, more than 143 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: a year into Villifania's investigation of Epstein, she learns that 144 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 2: Mentchal meets with one of Epstein's lawyers. Philifania is concerned 145 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: that that meeting was about conducting plea negotiations. What does 146 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: she say? 147 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: She said that it was inappropriate for him to engage 148 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: in plea talks without consulting her, the investigators, or the victims. 149 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: He then responds that, quote, both the tone and substance 150 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: of your email are totally inappropriate, he said, in combination 151 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: with with other matters in the past, it seriously calls 152 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: your judgment into question. 153 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: And then her response to that was striking. She responds, quote, 154 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: I feel like there's a glass ceiling that prevents me 155 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 2: from moving forward. Will evidence suggests that Epstein is continuing 156 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: to engage in this criminal behavior. 157 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: Right Menchell said to Villafania that he was not actually 158 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: engaged in plea negotiations, and it was soon after that 159 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: that he told Villafanya that alex Acosta had decided that 160 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: it would not be federal charges, but that Epstein would 161 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: plead guilty in state court and serve up to two 162 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: years and also be registered as a sex offender and 163 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: have to pay damages to the girls. 164 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: And then you write that Menchell leaves the office shortly 165 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 2: after this what happens? Then walk us through the timeline. 166 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: After Menchell left the office, it fell to Villafanya to 167 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: negotia the actual plea agreement and the terms of the 168 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: federal non prosecution agreement. This took place over several weeks. 169 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: It was a complicated negotiation with a number of moving parts, 170 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: and it ultimately resulted in an agreement in late September 171 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven in which Epstein agreed that he 172 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: would exercise his best efforts to plead guilty by late 173 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: October two thousand and seven. In fact, it did not 174 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: happen then, and Villefania felt that he was in breach 175 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: of his agreement, and she continued to investigate him, moving 176 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: toward a possible indictment of Epstein on federal charges, and. 177 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: As part of her continued investigations, villa Fania continues to 178 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: interview victims right At one point, Villafana writes to Acosta 179 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: about an interview she had just had with three of 180 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: the victims, and I just want to read this email 181 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: because I think it speaks to her mindset at the 182 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: time and the kinds of things she was hearing from 183 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: these girls. She writes to Acosta, I wish you could 184 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: have been there to see how much this has affected them. 185 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: One girl broke down sobbing so that we had to 186 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: stop the interview twice within a twenty minute span. She 187 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: regained her composure enough to continue a short time, but 188 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: she said that she was having nightmares about Epstein coming 189 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: after her, and she started to break down again, so 190 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: we stopped the interview. What do we know about how 191 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: she was feeling at this time and how this was 192 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: weighing on her. 193 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: You could see through the correspondence that she was not 194 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: happy with some of the terms, and she was not 195 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: happy with Epstein's legal team, which was attacking her personally, 196 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: was going over her head, and she felt was changing 197 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: the terms of the agreement. In March of two thousand 198 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: and eight, she wanted to know what her superiors were 199 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: waiting for, and she said, the please be patient answer 200 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: is really wearing thin, especially when Epstein's group is still 201 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: on the attack. While we are forced to wait on 202 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: the sidelines. These are wrenching cases to do, very difficult 203 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: emotionally on all concerned. There's a lot of effort to 204 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: protect the feelings and the integrity of the victims, and 205 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: it's a hard call for everyone to decide, well, how 206 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: would this young girl who's sixteen years old or seventeen 207 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: years old, how would they hold up against a very smart, 208 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: very aggressive lawyer in the court of law. And some 209 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: of those girls flat out said, I don't want any 210 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: part of this, I don't want to testify. Some of 211 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: them said they loved Epstein. Epstein had a sort of 212 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: cult of personality around him, which his trafficking network facilitated, 213 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: and a number of these girls entered into civil settlements 214 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: with Epstein, and so Epstein would gree to civil settlements, 215 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: but they'd also use that as a club against prosecutors. 216 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: And so those were all obstacles that she had to face, 217 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: and collectively, with her superiors, they came to the decision 218 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: to avoid the risk of a trial and to secure 219 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: a guilty plead. 220 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: So in June two thousand and eight, after months of waiting, 221 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: Villafania learns that finally Epstein plans to plead guilty to 222 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: a couple of charges, state charges, not federal charges. What 223 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: does Villa Fania say in that moment when. 224 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: Colleagues congratulated her on finally sort of landing the big case, 225 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: she was not happy. She felt that instead of serving 226 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: eighteen months in jail, that he should be doing eighteen 227 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: years in prison. She also was upset because she thought 228 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: that she had an agreement with the defense lawyers that 229 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: he would actually serve two years in jail and that 230 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: he would not be eligible for this work release program. 231 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: Had Epstein been indicted and convicted of sex trafficking, the 232 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: penalty was something like two decades in prison. Now, of course, 233 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: there were ways for the defense to reduce such a sentence, 234 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: but that's why they were fighting so very hard to 235 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: keep this out of a federal court house and make 236 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: it a stakecase. 237 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: Marie Villafania declined to comment for David Story after the break. 238 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: More from our conversation. We've read a lot over the 239 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: past few months about how Epstein rallied powerful people around 240 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: him and used his connections to exert influence in some cases, 241 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: avoid consequences for years. In these documents, we can see 242 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: Marie Villafania grappling with this dynamic in real time. I 243 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: want to start with talking about Epstein's legal team. Who 244 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: were they and what did the documents reveal about the 245 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 2: way that they operated. 246 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: They included prominent litigators, and their tactics were quite aggressive. 247 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: Prosecutors have a lot of discretion in the investigative phase 248 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: on how much they will listen to defense lawyers before 249 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: they charge someone. In this case, Villefana wrote, Acosta set 250 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: the tone that allowed the defense an extraordinary level of 251 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: access to the supervisory team in his office, which gave 252 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: Epstein a number of advantages. Acosta had not been a 253 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: prosecutor before he became the US Attorney in the Southern 254 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: District of Florida, and so he was relying on his 255 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: team to guide him through a lot of this, and 256 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: he was also open to listening to defense lawyers help 257 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: him frame the issues, and a big one was whether 258 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: this was appropriately handled in federal court or state court. 259 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: There are a number of other examples where prosecutors would 260 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: say enough is enough, I've heard what I need to hear. 261 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: But he allowed a continuing level of input that influenced 262 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: the ultimate disposition of this case. 263 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: You found some other specific examples of how Epstein's legal 264 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 2: team pushed back on Villafania's investigation. One of the striking 265 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: ones was Villafania wanted to subpoena Epstein's computers back in 266 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: two thousand and seven. The office issued the subpoena, but 267 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: then accepted Epstein's guilty plead to state charges in two 268 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: thousand and eight without ever getting the computers. What happened there. 269 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: The Palm Beach police had raided Epstein's house as part 270 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 1: of their investigation, but what was conspicuously missing was his 271 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: computer units that she was convinced had a lot of 272 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: evidence of his crimes. The prosecutors, and particularly Villafania, believed 273 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: that those computers were being held by an investigator for 274 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: one of Epstein's defense lawyers, and she wanted those computers, 275 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of back and forth and 276 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: pushback from the defense. Ultimately, her office did not pursue 277 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: subpoenas that would have potentially brought those computers to the 278 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: government and potentially delivered a lot more evidence than they 279 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: already had. 280 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 2: So in hindsight, does this look like a missed opportunity 281 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 2: for the government. 282 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: I will say that the Department of Justice, which did 283 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: an exhaustive investigation of this in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, 284 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: said that it was a mistake and poor judgment by 285 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: alex Acosta to not pursue those computers and to reach 286 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: an agreement before he had all the evidence that was 287 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: potentially available to him. 288 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 2: And whatever happened to Menchel after he left the Southern 289 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 2: District of Florida. 290 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: After he left the government, which was in August of 291 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, he became a very successful defense 292 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: lawyer in Miami, did a number of high profile cases, 293 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: and he also corresponded with Epstein in twenty ten, which 294 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: lasted through twenty seventeen, and Epstein extended dinner invitations to him, 295 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: tried to steer potential legal engagements his way, and they 296 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: had some personal discussions back and forth. 297 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 2: What did Menchell say in response to your reporting? 298 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: He said that Menchell's emails with Epstein were made in 299 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: the context of potential representations and referrals, none of which 300 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: ever materialized into any business of mister Minchell or his firm, 301 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: and that during the three months mister Minchell was involved 302 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: in the investigation of Epstein, he treated the matter as 303 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: he treated every case he prosecuted over his twenty year 304 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: career in public service with seriousness, professionalism, and respectful the 305 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: chain of command. Any suggestion that mister Menschel prevented an 306 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: indictment or did anyone any favors is categorically false. 307 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: And I also want to talk about Alex Acosta. It 308 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 2: took years for the details of the non prosecution agreement 309 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: to come out and for federal prosecutors in New York 310 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: to eventually indict Epstein on sex trafficking charges. In the meantime, 311 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: Acosta's career took off. He became Labor Secretary for President 312 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 2: Donald Trump in his first term. What happened when the 313 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: details of that agreement came to light. 314 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: The Miami Herald in late twenty eighteen wrote a very 315 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: powerful series of stories that illuminated many of the mechanics 316 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: of Epstein's non prosecution agreement with the Southern District of 317 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: Florida and got several victims to speak on the record 318 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: in a way that had never happened before and that 319 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: really changed the public perception of Epstein. Acosta came under 320 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: a great deal of scrutiny and pressure and resigned soon 321 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: after he took the position then, as he takes the 322 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: position now that they did the best they could in 323 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: investigating Epstein. At the time, there were concerns then about 324 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: the credibility of some of the girls and the women 325 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: who said that they were sexually assaulted. And anytime a 326 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: prosecutor goes to trial, there's a risk of an acquittal, 327 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: and he looked for the certainty of a jail term 328 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: through a negotiated plea deal. And one of Acosta's big 329 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: points was also that the deal that he struck required 330 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: Epstein to register as a sex offender, which is something 331 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: that would stick with him always. 332 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: And finally, I want to ask about Marie Vilifonia. Aside 333 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 2: from these documents that we see in the Epstein files, 334 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: has she spoken in public about this. 335 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: She has not spoken publicly, and I will say that 336 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: her public words changed over time, because after Epstein pleaded 337 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: guilty through civil litigation, she defended that deal and open 338 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: court in two thousand and nine. She defended it in 339 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: written declarations through the years, including one in twenty seventeen 340 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: where she said she felt that a plea deal was 341 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: the best outcome here because of concerns by the victims. 342 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: But then in her declaration in twenty nineteen that we 343 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: write about as well. She seemed to have hardened her 344 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: attitude and say that she felt that the victims were 345 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: not well treated by the outcome. 346 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing your reporting. 347 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: Thank you. 348 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 349 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 2: To get more from the Big Take and unlimited access 350 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 2: to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg 351 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 2: dot com slash podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be 352 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: back tomorrow.