WEBVTT - Everything is On the Ballot 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.600 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Will Kate f Daily 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.360 with Meet your Girl Daniel Moody pre recording from the 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:23.120 Home Bunker, Folks. In today's conversation, I bring on one 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.000 of my faves and longtime analysts that we go to 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:32.960 every time there is a legal web to unravel, and 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.400 that is Glenn Kirshner. And in today's conversation, Glenn and 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:42.239 I look at what happened in twenty twenty three as 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.559 it pertains to ninety one charges for indictments across multiple 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.879 jurisdictions for Donald Trump. We talk about, you know, the 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:56.760 latest news around Rudy Giuliani being forced to pay nearly 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.440 one hundred and fifty million dollars to the two the 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.640 mother and daughter, Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss that he 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:08.960 defamed and whose lives he destroyed. We talk about what 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.080 we think this unelected body, the black robes of the 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.400 Supreme Court will do now that Jack Smith has kicked 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.240 up a question to them, which is can former presidents 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:26.680 be prosecuted or are they above the law? And Glenn 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.480 gives us his thoughts about whether or not he thinks 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.880 that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of democracy. 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.520 Or not, but what this setup is going to look 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.600 like for us in twenty twenty four, Make no mistake, folks, 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.679 everything is on the fucking line. And I keep trying 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.080 to get people to see that, to understand that, to 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.919 wrap their minds around it, because we don't get another 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.520 bite at this apple. Donald Trump gets in and he 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:56.720 is telling you he's going to be a dictator. On 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.320 day one. His a sycophants are telling you that they 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.560 want people burned at the steak who are dissenters, that 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:08.240 they're coming for everyone and everything, and they will bankrupt 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.680 this society in order to seek their revenge. And no one, 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.639 no one will be fucking safe. And so I think 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.360 that it's really important for us not to be placing 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.320 all of our bets on the fact that these legal 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.880 cases will transpire and somehow Donald Trump will find himself 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.720 in a jumpsuit before he finds himself back in the 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.720 Oval Office. The decision on whether or not he makes 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.160 it back inside the Oval Office is going to depend 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:39.000 on all of us deciding that we are choosing democracy, 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.400 not a person, not between Biden and Trump, but between 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:49.000 our freedom and our annihilation as a country of laws 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:58.400 that conversation with our friend Glenn Kirshner is coming up next, Folks. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.359 I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.800 our friend, the host of Justice Matters MSNBC legal analyst 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.320 Glenn Kirshner, to kind of round out twenty twenty three 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.800 for us and shape the crystal ball and look into 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.080 twenty twenty fourd's legal news. Glenn, I don't know that 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.639 when you went to law school, when you were even 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.080 a federal prosecutor, if you would imagine that your degree 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.560 would be as worked at as it has been in 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:34.359 twenty twenty three. I mean, the legal news. Your neck 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.840 looks good, but I'm assuming that your head has been 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:41.960 on a swivel for twelve plus months. Just give us 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:47.680 like an overview and your impression of the legal drama 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.480 that is played out in so many ways around Donald 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.800 Trump in this country and what has like stood out 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:56.120 for you. 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.400 Yeah, Danielle, after retiring, I did thirty years as a 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:05.880 federal prosecutor. I never thought my retirement would involve discussing 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:11.000 what we're going to do about a presidential candidate who 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.400 is the leading candidate for the Republican nomination, declaring that 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.440 he will be a dictator on day one. That was 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.880 not on my bingo card. So where we are at 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.320 the moment, let me not bury the lead. I think 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:31.280 twenty twenty four is do or die for democracy, plain 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:36.280 and simple. In other times that would sound like hyperbolic nonsense. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.880 I think it's due or die time for democracy. So 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.200 on the legal front, you know, we can look back 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:50.279 at twenty twenty three as the year of becoming accountability, 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.680 because accountability is not here. But you know, it ain't 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:59.039 nothing that We've got this big orange mob boss, right, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:04.599 the biggest orange criminal blowfish in the ocean, indicted in 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:09.880 four felony cases too federal and to state. That's a 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:14.400 really good start. That is at least getting after Donald 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.440 Trump for some of the crimes he committed against we 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.719 the people, the people of New York, the people of Georgia. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.039 But you know, the ending is as of yet unwritten. 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.880 We don't know where things are gonna go. We don't 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.080 know if he's actually gonna be held accountable. I mean, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.640 there is potentially a Supreme Court hurdle that we the 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.760 people will have to overcome if we're gonna hold Donald 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.280 Trump accountable for his crimes. There are jury trials. Jurors 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.320 will have to sit in that wooden box as the 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.880 conscience of the community, and here the mountainous evidence of 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.679 Donald Trump's guilt, and they will have to conclude beyond 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.000 a reasonable doubt that he committed those crimes and find 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.919 him guilty. So, you know, we are far from home. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.440 But I do think twenty twenty three was the year 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.160 of becoming accountability and twenty twenty four is do or 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.279 die time. So you know where we are at the moment. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.360 We are kind of in this holding pattern because we 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.400 know that. You know, let's focus on the case with 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:23.839 the most imminent trial date, the DC four count indictment 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.680 for Donald Trump trying to overturn the results of the 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:31.920 presidential election being presided over by Judge Tanya Chutkin, and 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.159 there's a March fourth trial date. Now, that trial date 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.039 may or may not hold because there are there's what 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.560 I call a legal belt d suspenders approach going on 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.400 to the issue of whether Donald Trump can ever be 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.440 prosecuted for his crimes. The reason I say it's belt 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.400 and suspenders the issue of whether a president is absolutely 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.000 immune against prosecution for all the crimes he commits while 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.279 in office. That issue is sitting right now in the 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.240 DC Federal Circuit Court of Appeals because Donald Trump appealed 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.960 Judge Chutkin's ruling that Trump ain't king and he can 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:13.920 be prosecuted, and it is also sitting at the Supreme 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.720 Court sort of. And here's why I say sort of. 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:22.600 Jack Smith did two things. Once Judge Chuckkins ruled that 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:27.320 Trump can be prosecuted and Trump appealed, he filed emotion 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.040 for an expedited appeal with the DC Federal Circuit Court 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.480 of Appeals, and they instantly granted it. And that thing 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.880 is on a very fast track. All briefs on that 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.280 issue are due January second, and I can only imagine 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.400 we're going to have an oral argument on January third, 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.600 or very soon after all of the briefs are in. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.680 It may take a few days or a week or two, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:55.040 but it will be quick. Simultaneously, Jack Smith asked the 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:59.360 Supreme Court to take up the issue immediately to leap 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.640 frog over the appellate court. These two things aren't inconsistent 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:08.000 because Jack Smith doesn't know which court might exercise jurisdiction, 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.160 so he's going with the Belton suspenders just to get 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:15.440 this issue resolved quickly, So you know, we have to 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.680 sit here and wonder and gameplay about whether the Supreme 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.920 Court will grab hold of this case or whether they 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.720 will wait for it to run its usual course, albeit 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.800 on an expedited tract, through the Appellate Court in DC, 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:31.920 and then grab hold of the case. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.960 This was great explanation. And I have some follow up, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.600 which is this this Supreme Court, I mean, my god, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:52.080 I can't say enough terrible things about the grifting of 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:58.280 Clarence Thomas, the just I mean abhorrent behavior in the 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:03.439 overturning of precedent. This Supreme Court will probably go down 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:09.240 if we still have history books, as one of the worst. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:15.400 Three of them were appointed by Donald Trump. Gorsic Kavanaugh 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.400 can So I'm looking at this and I'm saying to 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.160 my Barrett, excuse me. And I'm looking at this and 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.240 I'm saying, do we already know, Glenn, how this is 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:31.120 going to play out? What are your beliefs and your 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:37.280 hopes that we have justices who are appointed by Trump 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:43.240 who are going to actually rule as if they were 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.040 regular justices that were listening to cases. 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.480 You know, I have very little confidence in the Supreme Court. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.360 As you say, not only have they been grifting, but 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.680 they have enjoyed their status of being above the law. 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:02.640 They have enjoyed operating under no mandatory rules of ethics. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.360 When Congress begged and pleaded and the American people begged 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.720 and pleaded with them to please promulgate a code of 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:14.160 ethics that applies to Supreme Court justices, what they gave 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:19.040 us was a pamphlet of suggestions. It says the Supreme 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:25.080 Court justices shouldn't act unethically, but they can. They can 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.240 because the Code of conducts doesn't say they shall not 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.240 act unethically, just says they shouldn't. These are suggestions, right, 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.200 and there's no enforcement mechanism, and there's no punishment if 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.720 they act unethically. One thing I'm confident in is that 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.400 the Supreme Court loves being above the law, which is 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.679 ironic because they're actually the last stop for a government 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.280 institution to interpret the law and the constitution. But they 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.520 consistently put themselves above the law. Here is why I 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.800 am completely confident they will rule that a president can 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.160 be prosecuted. A president is not a king. They can 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.520 rule that way for one of two reasons, the right reason, 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.560 for the wrong reason. The right reason that there is 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.000 absolutely not one shred of support. There are three sources 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:23.959 of law, statutes, case law that's precedent from an appellate court, 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.439 and the Constitution. There is not one shred of support 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.880 in any of those three sources of law that a 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.880 president can't be prosecuted for his crimes. So they can 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.360 get it right for the right reason. I will drop 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.400 as a footnote that Kavanaugh wrote a paper twenty five 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.320 years ago saying a president can be prosecuted once he 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.760 leaves office. Not that consistency is a thing for these justices. 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.200 We saw it in the Roe v. Wade arena when 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.240 they promised us in their confirmation hearings that Roe had 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:59.040 nothing to worry about from them, and then they overturned it. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.360 So consistency is not really their strong suit. But they 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.520 can do it for the right reason, or they can 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.480 do it for the wrong reason. The wrong reason is 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.680 if they rule that a president is king above the law, 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.080 can commit all the crimes he wants in office and 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.520 can never be touched for them, then that will be 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.959 putting the Supreme Court out of business. Because Donald Trump, 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:26.920 aspiring dictator that he is, will come in he can 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:32.520 literally order the Supreme Court justices summarily confined without charges. 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.360 That would be a crime, but he can't be prosecuted 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.319 for it. And if you tell Donald Trump he can 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.760 do whatever he wants without the risk of prosecution, we 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.240 know what Donald Trump will do. So because they love 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.720 their supreme status, because they don't want to put a 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.600 dictator in the oval office and announce he's above the 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.600 law and can cut the legs out from under the 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:58.640 Supreme Court, they will do for the wrong reason self preservation. Right. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.679 They may say, oh, oh, he's not king. He can't 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.080 invite us all out onto Fifth Avenue and shoot us. 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.240 He can't do it. Right, So, one way or another, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.520 for the right reason or the wrong reason, they're going 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.960 to rule, in my opinion, that a president can be 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:14.720 prosecuted for his crimes. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.520 Okay, so let's say right or wrong reason. They rule 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.400 the way that they should, which is to say that 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.359 no president is above the law, even though they themselves 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:33.040 are the unelected black cloaks. What happens then with this 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:39.040 Jack Smith case. We're looking at the documents case, we're 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.400 looking at the insurrection case. Let's look at his two 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.800 cases before we go down south. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.839 So what happens is the Supreme Court can decide this 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.959 issue quickly or slowly. If they decided quickly, we should 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.199 be in jury selection beginning on March fourth in Washington, 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:04.600 DC for Dom Trump's election busting crimes democracy busting crimes. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.199 That is entirely up to the whim of the Supreme 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.720 Court justices whether they want to act quickly or slowly. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.560 I still don't think. You know, listen, if they wanted 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.959 to install Donald Trump back into the White House, give 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.320 him the reins of power again, they could have done 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.160 it in the election challenge cases, you know, a couple 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.200 of years ago, and they didn't because they don't want 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.360 a dictator in the Oval office because that puts them 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.040 out of business. So, but we don't know how quickly 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.480 they will resolve it. I think they'll do it quickly 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.320 because I actually think they want to be rid of 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.920 Donald Trump. I really do. They want to get back 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.280 to a good, old, reliable Republican president that they're hoping 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.040 for so they can keep the grift and the money 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.480 flowing into their coffers without having a code of ethics 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.800 that they're bound by. What does it do to the 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.760 judge canon case? That's an interesting question. Let's assume Supreme 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.720 Court acts quickly. They ruled it a president isn't king. 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.680 Before I finish the thought, you know, if they rule 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.680 that a president is king, Joe Biden doesn't have to 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:05.640 leave the presidency. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.160 So this is what I You know, I was gonna 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.080 wait right, and I was just like. And also the 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.840 bullshit impeachment inquiry that they opened in the House, which 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:18.920 we still don't know what the basis for that is, 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.680 because they haven't told anybody that Republicans have done in 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.600 the House is null and void because then a president 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.960 is above the law, which is what it is that 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.320 you've wanted all along. So it actually does not work 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.320 in their favor. But I don't know if they think 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.920 five steps ahead when it comes to Donald Trump. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.520 No, if Trump gets to commit crimes with impunity while 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.920 in office, so does Joe Biden and every other president. Now, 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:42.800 I think we all have a sense that Joe Biden 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.080 wouldn't but he would be given permission by the Supreme 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.960 Court to do it. So correct, there's a philosophical question 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.720 there that I even I hesitate to articulate. I mean, 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:54.880 if you know you're going to have a benevolent dictator 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:56.640 or an evil dictator, and you have to pick a 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.200 dictator because they're all above the law in the Supreme 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.880 Court's opinion, who do you pick? Okay, philosophical discussion for 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:07.840 another day. So, but here's what is interesting about the documents, 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.320 and I don't I never just call it a documents case. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.160 In Florida, the Judge Cannon is presiding over because it's 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.720 a document substruction of justice, espionage case. Those are the 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:21.880 charges against him. Because that has a May twentieth trial date. 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.040 If the DC trial starts on March fourth, it's going 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.840 to go for probably six weeks, maybe a little longer, 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.960 and it will bump right up very close to the 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.960 May twenty trial date in Florida. Under those circumstances, I 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.520 have every reason to believe the May twenty trial date 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.280 will be vacated and will be pushed down the road. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:46.240 In fact, Danielle, on March first, three days before the 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.520 trial in DC is scheduled to kick off, Judge Cannon 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.400 has invited everybody down, prosecutors and the defense attorneys, for 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.960 what's called the scheduling conference. What that means is if 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.520 on March fourth, when they're all down in that courtroom 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.720 in Florida. They know that three days later the trial 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.520 in DC will begin. At that point, I can all 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:12.000 but promise Judge Cannon will vacate, that is, cancel the 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.000 May twenty trial date in Florida, and they'll be picking 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.920 a new date well down the road. Because it actually 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.600 is unfair in my experience, to make a defense team 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.119 spend two months in trial in the highest profile case 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.400 in our nation's history, only to immediately go into another 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.560 lengthy trial that is also one of the highest profile 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.680 prosecutions in our nation's history. People do need to breather, 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.840 they need time to prepare. I get all that, so 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.119 I don't think you're going to see these trials go 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:42.960 back to back. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.560 And I'm also like, I don't care, don't work for 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:54.520 a criminal. Let's put a pin in Jacksmith. Now that 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.200 we have some kind of murky understanding of where things 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:03.200 could go, it looks like arch depending all on the 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.160 Supremes and what it is that they decide to do 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.520 with the question of can a president be above the law? 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.840 And I think to all of the points that you made, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.040 I think that the decision is going to come to 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.560 self preservation. I do not think that they are going 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.840 to rule because you know, they care one way or 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.720 the other about the country or dictatorship. They care about 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:28.960 it so much as they care about their own skin. 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:34.000 So that's in one space. I want to move now 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:38.639 to the ruling that we all saw out of Georgia 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:46.360 with regard to Juliani. And so Rudy Giuliani was found 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:53.480 absolutely and we knew this libel for the character destruction 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:58.920 that he did on Shay Moss and Ruby Freeman. This 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.600 decision that came out of the Georgia courts was about 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:10.440 how much money he would need to pay to make amends, 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.120 and it has come out Glenn too close to one 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:20.760 hundred and fifty million dollars. Now we know there's going 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:25.399 to be appeal, appeal, appeal, appeal. How does this decision 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.399 land with you? And how do you think that it 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.600 plays into the other case that Rudy Giuliani is a 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.960 part of, which is the larger Rico case that that 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.000 we have Fannie Willis has in Georgia playing out. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.399 You know, it lands pretty well with me in theory. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.960 I think one hundred and fifty million dollars in both 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:51.000 compensatory damages for the harm he did to Shay Moths 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.639 and Ruby Freeman, and seventy five million of that is 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.760 impunitive damages to punish him, to send the message anybody 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:05.160 else looking to lie about, defame and call all sorts 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:10.120 of racist names and endanger the lives of our election workers, 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.800 you can expect the same fate. Rudy Giuliani will die penniless. 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:19.440 Now he may die penniless trying to hide whatever assets 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.480 he can try to hide. But there are lots of 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.879 vehicles in the law. Listen, what we always say is 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.560 half the battle is winning a money award like this 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.480 a civil judgment. The other half is collecting it, Okay, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.680 but there are also you can attach property, you can 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.600 put leans on homes, you can garnish wages, you can 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.639 do all sorts of stuff to get after Rudy Giuliani's money. 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.480 But I think the signal it sends. And I was 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.000 sitting in the courtroom in DC watching some of the 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.960 closing arguments, watching Rudy Giuliani sit there, not fifteen feet 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.960 away from the women he lied about defamed. Who's lie 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.040 he put in danger people saying sending messages. This is 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.760 right after he launched his lies about them. Saying we 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.520 want to see you hanging from a tree in your 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.159 front yard, and we want to be so close, we 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.440 want to hear your next snap. And the horrific circumstances 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.800 that Shay's fourteen year old son had to go through. 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.040 I mean, you know, there are no words for how 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.439 disgusting this is. Ye, So I think it sends a 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.720 message you're looking to mess with our election workers, the 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.720 good people who are working the polls, trying to promote 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.879 free and fair elections. Yeah, you got real trouble coming 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.320 your way. And I look at this in conjunction with 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.879 the fact that three states have now criminally charged fake electors. 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.480 Yeah right, so and Wisconsin brought a suit and successfully 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.119 sued the fake electors. So accountability is spreading, and the 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.440 message should be spreading that you want to play this way. Oh, 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.280 you're going to pay. You're going to pay, even if 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.360 it takes a long time, You're gonna pay. Hopefully that 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:07.920 deter that message of deterrence, both civilly and criminally is spreading. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.960 So you know, as we close out and you we 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:19.280 are now looking at twenty twenty four, we have four 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:26.560 cases ninety one charges an election coming up. Caucuses all 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:30.240 of these things are happening at the same time. Glenn, 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.119 I'm asking you to take it out and dust it 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:40.600 off your crystal ball. Do these trials impact the election? 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:47.840 Will any one of them be decided by October, you know, 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.480 November twenty twenty four. 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.440 I think the answer is yes. They at least one 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.000 of the criminal cases will come to fruition with a 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:04.359 verdict and a sentencing before November twenty twenty four. I 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.800 think the most likely candidate is the DC trials, scheduled 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.520 to begin on March four. Really, we are at the 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.840 whim of the timing of the Supreme Court resolving this 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:18.600 absolute immunity claim. But even if they take a month 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.440 or two to decide it and that pushes the trial 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.640 day till let's say June, it can still be tried 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:29.000 and resolved well in advance of the November election. So 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.840 I'm guardedly optimistic that we will get a jury verdict, 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:38.639 a guilty verdict, a sentence to incarceration. I also happen 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:42.320 to believe Judge chuck In will order him remanded to 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:44.720 the Federal Bureau of Prisons. I don't think she will 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.600 leave him on release pending appeal, because that is not 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:52.000 the norm. When somebody is convicted of crimes, and these 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:55.960 are democracy busting crimes, they are to report to prison, 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.159 begins serving their term, and then they can take as 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:03.680 long as they want to appeal conviction. So I think 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:06.320 one of the cases will at least come to fruition. 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.120 Will it impact the elections, that's anybody's guests, because sadly, 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:13.040 you can be a convicted felon and run for president. 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:17.760 You can be an imprisoned felon and run for and 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:22.040 be elected to the presidency, which is probably something we 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.359 ought to try to take up and the future, but 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.120 that is the reality. So will it hurt Trump's numbers 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.199 enough to finally get him out of the game of 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:34.639 trying to kill our democracy? That I don't know. I 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.200 forever am believing that at some point the Republican Party 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:46.960 will stop slicing themselves up with a thousand cuts by 0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:50.000 continuing to support him, because they're going to do the 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.479 party in if they continue down that road. It feels 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.760 like the Republican Party is circling the drain as we 0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:59.720 speak now. At some point, don't you have to turn 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:04.600 away from a convicted, imprisoned felon who's serving life. I 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:08.199 would think so if you care about preserving and rebuilding 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.840 your political party. But what do I know? 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.639 I know, and that is just the sickest thing that 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:21.600 I think I have heard that you know, I don't 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.679 see them turning away. I see them turning Donald Trump 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:28.680 into a political prisoner and a martyr, and you know, 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:33.160 and the fame and the legend of him growing even 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:36.840 more so. It's you know, we will see and time 0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.439 will tell. And I hope Glenn, that you will be 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.680 checking in with us throughout the year because the news 0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:48.320 is going to keep coming and so are the hits, unfortunately, 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:51.760 but we always appreciate you your time and your analysis. 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.560 It's great being with you. Danielle. In twenty twenty four 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:56.720 is do or die for democracy, and I think we 0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:57.320 should all do. 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:06.480