WEBVTT - What happens to a property after a murder? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.520 Hey everyone, Manny here before we start today's episode, I'm 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.760 doing a call out for an advice episode. We're doing 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.720 another episode where you send us a problem you're having 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.680 or a dilemma that you're in, and me, Devin and 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.440 Noah will give our takes and try to help you 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.200 as best we can. So call the number in the 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.119 show notes and leave us a message or send a 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.840 voice memo to our email at Manny Noah Devin at 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:30.479 gmail dot com. Enjoy today's episode. I'm Manny. This is 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.040 and this is no such thing the show where we 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.680 settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:44.159 On today's episode, what happens to a property after a murder? No, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:50.599 there's no no touch thing, No touch, thank touch, thank. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.400 Touch, thank you, touch, thank you. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:04.240 All right, boys, we're here. What are you pointing at 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:20.200 his shirt? We're getting spooky today? All right, boys, Uh, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.959 we're here to talk about, uh, this question that that 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.880 actually I don't think I've ever really thought about before 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.360 we came across this, And that question is what happens 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.960 to a property so like an apartment or a home 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.000 after there's been a murder, or especially like a high 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.400 profile murder that's been in the news. We're going to 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.880 talk to a journalist who essentially did the work for us. 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.400 She's gotten to the bottom of this and you know, 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.480 uncovered a bunch of nuances about this industry, so to speak. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.040 But before we get to that interview, I wanted to 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.840 ask you, guys, would this be a deterrent for you? 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.240 You you were moving into a place, So let's say 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.800 you let's do a scenario here where you're at the 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.720 last stages. You know, maybe you've talked to the real 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.360 estate agent, you put down a down payment, but then 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:17.280 you find out that twenty years prior to big crime 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.160 that happened there. I mean, well, how do you guys feel. 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.680 I I think my only deterrent wouldn't be the act 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:25.440 that happened there. I think it would be more if 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.400 like people were coming by all the time, like if 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.720 it was really high profile and like they're like tourists 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:34.800 coming by and hounding the place. If it was like 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.040 cleaned up or redone and there's not like signs of 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.200 anything happening, Yeah, I think I don't think it would 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:43.919 bother me. I don't think I'd be so spooked. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.639 Maybe if it was like a really extreme thing. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.840 Where you know whoever John Wayne Gacey or something like yea, 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.480 you know the bodies were under this floorboard or something 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.959 like something like that, where it's like, Okay, maybe that 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.240 would be creepy, especially if I'm in, you know, some 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.840 creaky house or something. But I think if it was 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.120 just it's like, okay, yeah, something bad happened here, not 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.799 like the most extreme. I mean, I think I could 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.440 be okay with it as long as yeah, it's not 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.760 like people are driving by or coming up and checking 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:11.480 it out all the time. 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.160 So you're not someone who thinks like there's bad vibes 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.160 in the air like any like, you're not spiritual in 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.919 that sense where you're worried about like the water faucet 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:22.120 being turned on by itself. 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:23.480 Yeah, I think as long as. 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.400 You know the price is right, I could get over that. 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:29.800 But I think the thing you'd have to think about 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:33.320 is if you were to sell that house, would you 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.320 have issues. Maybe you don't have an issue with it 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.040 and you get a good price, but now it's time 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:39.760 for you to sell it and everyone's like, I don't 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.680 want to buy that house. That's the house where that 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.480 crazy thing happened. Yeah, it's a good point, all right, 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.360 And now okay, I put all this money into this 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.400 house and I can't get you know, I'm always thinking 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.160 about you know, I'm an HGTV head, so I'm always 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.800 thinking about, you know, flipping it. 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.400 You know. Yeah, so you have the house, you got 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:56.880 to think about. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.440 It's an investment. At some point you're going to want 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:00.280 to try to sell it. 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:00.960 But I don't. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.880 Yeah, I'm not like a big ghosts or spiritual guy. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.800 I think to know his point as long as it like, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.880 if I was to be able to walk into that 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.640 place and not notice or no exactly, then I would 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.400 be okay with it. Obviously, if it's a high profile 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.000 thing and people are coming and taking pictures, like I 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.080 didn't even think about the Sex and the City seen 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.440 this the Brownstone in New York where it is this 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.400 old man is like putting up you know, like ropes 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.080 and stuff because people are sitting on a stoop like 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.720 I think also the breaking bad House where he throwst 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:34.440 of people like to take pictures in front of the house. 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.400 So some of that is like all right, it comes 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.640 to the territory. But some of it is like all right, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.480 people like let's be respectful someone does live here. Yeah, 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.440 so that would be my biggest worry is that if 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.200 it's you know, you get these fanatics who would show 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:48.000 up to your house. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.760 Yeah, it's like a notorious location. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.080 Yeah, at all hours it a night, or be sneaking 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.280 around and it's like, all right, I don't want that 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:55.039 to be happening. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.279 Yeah, I thought I've thought about this question. I think, 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.680 you know, I'm not spiritual in that way where like 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.080 I think there's a ghost or whatever, and that's why 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.239 I wouldn't do it. I do wonder if I could 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.320 get over the thought of the thing happening there, like 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.960 if it would be occupying my mind while I lived there. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.960 Of course, if there if there was a situation where 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.600 they were like, okay, you found out that this thing 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.640 happened here, will give you give you this place half 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.359 off or whatever, like if there's a consideration about the 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.800 price attached to this, I would probably be okay. But 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:27.919 I certainly think like if I was down in the 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.280 basement doing laundry or whatever and like anything about that, Yeah, 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:32.640 I don't know. I don't know. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:37.000 I just feel like, you know, people obviously not high profile, 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.240 but lots of bad things have happened probably in all 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.559 the places we've lived, unless you're a first person living there. Yeah, 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.159 you know, I hear my neighbors are you, And I'm like, 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.479 that's not good stuff happened in and there. So I 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.560 think to some degree, it's just like bad stuff happens everywhere. 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:54.000 M h. 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.400 I think it's different if we have like a collective 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:58.840 memory about the thing. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.560 Yeah, I mean what has happened in this studio? Yeah, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.279 in the past. Yeah, it's possible, you know, go far 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.159 enough back. Yeah, I've gotten bad vibes, Like how like 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.800 to what what extent does it go? Like, could it 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.280 be possible at four thousand years ago some guy hit 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.800 another guy with a rock or something. And that's not 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:20.480 really gonna deter me from. 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.400 In the United States right here? Yeah, hey, is American 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:28.680 to me. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.520 But I think the more interesting question is something I've 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.560 just not thought about before, which is like, what exactly 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.680 is the process of selling these places? So if some 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.640 high profile murder happened in an apartment, what exactly is 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.479 the process, Like, you know, do they let people know 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.279 ahead of time before people try and buy the place? 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.840 Are these places torn down? What the hell is happening? 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:00.599 Is this an industry, and thankfully we've we've got a 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.559 journalist joining us. Her name is Katherine Fenlosa, and she's 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.599 interviewed a man who has become known as the Master 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:13.200 of Disaster, which is you know, I know this is 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.680 kind of a darker topic, but that is an awesome name. Anyway, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.800 we've got Katherine waiting for us on a call, so 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:31.000 why don't we just bring her in? Okay, all right, 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.600 we're here with Katherine Fenelosa. Catherine, we're ready to record 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:35.920 if you are sure. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:36.440 Great. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.320 Catherine is a journalist who is sharing with us an 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.320 interview that she conducted with a man named Randal Bell. 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:50.560 Randall has become known for his work surrounding the sale 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:55.720 and management of real estate that's kind of been stained 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:01.000 by crime, especially the kind of crime that is high profile, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:02.720 the kind of crime that might make it in the 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.000 national news. So, Catherine, I guess my first question is, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.040 you know, the only person I can kind of imagine 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.560 who'd be able to do this kind of work is 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:17.720 someone who's, you know, a dark figure, someone who's brooding, pensive. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.320 Maybe not a whole lot of fun to hang around, 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:22.960 But what was it like actually talking to the so 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:24.920 called Master of Disaster. 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:29.480 Well he is. He's a really interesting guy, and I 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.280 don't know what I was expecting beforehand, but he's so 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.640 kind and gentle that in some ways I was sort 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.680 of surprised that this is his line of work, because 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:46.480 it's he's dealing with, like truly the worst sides of humanity. 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.320 He's been called to investigate basically the best way to 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:55.640 handle some of the most notorious crimes in the country 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:01.240 or natural disasters, and he does it with such a 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.240 He describes himself as a surfer and a skier, and 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.360 that comes across He lives in southern California, and he's 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:14.120 got this very sort of Southern California beachy vibe to him, which, 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.720 you know, I think if you met him on the street, 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.360 his line of work would be the last thing you'd 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:20.000 ever think of. 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.400 I am doctor Randall Bell, and I'm a socioeconomist, and 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.280 I specialize in real estate damage economics. What that basically 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.800 means is that when there's a disaster or a crime, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.960 or an oil spill, or any number of things a 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.400 natural disaster, I measure what in the legal field is 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.960 called a diminution value. I measure loss and value but 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.240 in order to do that, there's a lot of sociology, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.480 a lot of finance, a lot of research. 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:00.840 So how did he get his start on your conversation 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:01.200 with him? 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:06.920 Yeah, so it's interesting. He was a neighbor of Nicole Brown. 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.600 You know, she was married to O. J. Simpson, the 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.760 football star who then you know, depending on how old 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.640 you are, in my childhood, he was like on the 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.559 front of every wheaties box, and you know, he was 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.000 everywhere selling literally selling orange juice. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:24.959 The orange juice I grew up on. It's rich in 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.240 natural energy, as sweet as an orange right from the 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:28.000 tree right. 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.600 Randall Bell lived in the neighborhood where her father lived, 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:39.120 and so after that tragedy, Lou Brown, her dad reached 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.960 out to Randall just to say, you know, do you 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.400 have any thoughts of what we can do with her condo? 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.520 So when lud told me about the property, I was 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:54.920 already pretty familiar with the demographics and it's a very 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.960 high end area. It's West LA. I don't know that 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:04.720 people really following the case really appreciated or fully acknowledged 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.080 of the human side of it. And Lou and I 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.679 became reasonably close. We would go to lunch several times together, 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.360 and he would share things with me that I've never 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.199 shared with anybody, just in terms of the grief and 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.040 the the sadness that this, you know, happened, and what 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.480 he was dealing with there. But in terms of the 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:31.240 real estate, well, his question to me was, this property's 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.280 we need to sell it for the estate. We got 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.480 bills to pay. There's you know, every disaster has a 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.840 or tragedy has the emotional side, but there's also practical 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.839 issues going on kind of behind the scenes, and he 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.240 was concerned about paying the bills. And he said, you know, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.240 because the property is so famous, is it going to 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.959 sell for more or is it you know, he didn't 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.400 know what was going to happen, and that's where I 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.040 said to him, you know, Lou, I don't know, but 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.200 let me figure it out. 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:09.440 He really got to start helping Nicole Brown's dad figure 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.120 out what to do with her place, and then he 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.120 just sort of got a reputation as the guy to 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:15.160 go to I think. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.760 I mean, we were what three years old on this Yeah, 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.520 it was happening. So everything I know about this case 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.240 has been learned through you know, movies or documentaries. Were 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.920 actually pretty removed from like the human element of this, 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.360 and it's fascinating to here that you know, he was 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.680 so close to it was either like a next door 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:33.920 neighbor or like in the neighborhood. 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.160 He was in the neighborhood. Yeah, he was in the neighborhood. 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:37.480 You know. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.480 You hear about all of these cases on the news. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.040 Our happenings in Los Angeles, and that all began with 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.360 charges laid by LA Police against oj Simpson in connection 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.400 with the brutal slang of his ex wife Nicole and 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.400 twenty five year old Ron Goldman. Simpson charge with the 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.880 two counts of murder was supposed to surrender to LA 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.959 police had too Eastern this afternoon, but failed to show up. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.880 He is now considered a fugitive from this and police 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:01.520 are on the. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.920 Hut and everyone is interested in the moment, and then 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.280 sort of the attention goes on to the next you know, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:15.560 big sensational event and what happens to the families and 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.920 the communities that are left behind that really have to 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.120 like put everything back together. And that's what really happened 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:26.320 with Randall helping Nicole's family, which was you know, someone 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.320 does have to pay the pay the mortgage or the rent, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.800 and so what do you do because now you've got 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:38.559 this property that has this this stigma attached to it. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:39.120 I mean. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.160 Another one that he did was Heaven's Gate, which was 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.920 nineteen ninety seven, and that was in Rancho, Santa Fe, California, 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:54.559 where a cult, the Heaven's Gate Cult, the thirty nine 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.520 members all committed suicide. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.280 San Diego Sheriff's deputy stumble into a house of the 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.880 multi million dollar mansion filled with dozens of bodies, the 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.200 site of a grim mass suicide. Resident. Do you have 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.800 any comment on the mass suicide. It's shocking. I think 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.000 it's important that we get as many facts as we 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:13.760 can about this. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.840 It was sort of like a UFO cult. It's a 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.960 little it's a little weird. I've tried to like understand it. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:25.600 But yeah, So they thought there was a comment, I 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.720 think it was called the Haley Bop comment, and they 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.120 thought when this comment was coming, it was like their 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:36.440 sign to be delivered to eternity. And so the thirty 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.240 nine members were living in a mansion in this very 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:46.560 wealthy neighborhood in southern California, and they all committed suicide, 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:52.120 and each member got into bed. They all dressed identically, 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.240 and I believe they drank some sort of poison and 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:02.360 they each died in their beds, and Randall was called 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.680 by the owner of this property to go in and 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.760 figure out what to do with it. And when he 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.960 went in the day after the last body was removed. 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.520 I'm often asked, what's the most bizarre case I've worked on? 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.520 It is probably that one. There were two things. One 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.360 was just how bizarre the cult people were. I mean, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:31.000 in terms of their lifestyle. Every single jar in the pantry, 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.040 every light switch, and this is not an exaggeration, every 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.160 light switch, every switch of any kind, everything in the closets, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.840 everything was labeled. And I was really puzzled by it. 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.520 And one day I was walking through the property with 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.360 a Wall Street Journal reporter and she says, do you 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.080 know why they do this? And I go, I have 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.840 no idea, and she goes, because they don't want the 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.880 cult members thinking for themselves about anything, even the most 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.320 mundane thing. All the thinking's been done for you when 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.640 you join the cult, And I thought, wow, that makes sense, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.760 and I haven't ever heard a better explanation in all 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.560 these year since. But there was also the remnants of 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:19.120 the incident. And I don't want to be graphic. I'm 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.120 not really a graphic person. But when you have thirty 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.080 nine bodies in a house for three days in the 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.840 summer with no air conditioning, there were a lot of 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.760 body fluids all over the property, and the property smelled 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.400 so bad. I'll never forget. I got in my car 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.560 when I was done going through it, and I went 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.480 back to my house and I literally went around the 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.200 gate to the backyard and jumped in the swimming pool 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.640 with a full suit on. I did not want to 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.840 carry that smell into my own house. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.600 And in the Heaven's gatecase. So how do you start 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.760 doing what you need to do? Can you walk me 0:16:58.800 --> 0:16:59.640 through your process? 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.200 The framework of it's pretty simple. We look at the costs, 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.000 use and risk. So the first thing is the costs 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:11.840 with Heaven's Gate. There was the cost of saying, okay, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.399 the house steaks. Is that just a thing where we 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.560 get a bunch of frebreeze or do we need to 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:24.560 deal with biological waste? So we hired an environmental company 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.360 to come in and test the porest surfaces, the carpet, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.360 the drapes, the air conditioning, ducting, and they came back 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:37.240 and said, unfortunately, there is biological matter that's decomposed and 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.879 airborne and all these things need to be demolished. So 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.080 the first step is costs. The second one is, you know, 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.640 does the property have any utility while it's being repaired, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.080 And the answer was obvious, no, you don't move the 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.919 family in, you don't live here, you don't try and 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.760 rent it right now. So there's a calculation on the 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.760 loss of use and that goes and gets submitted to 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.919 the insurance companies. And then the third thing is the risk, 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.040 and that being once you clean up the property and 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.440 fix it up and put it on the market, and 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.000 you say, hey, we've got a ten thousand square foot 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.520 mansion and three acres of land and the spectacular view 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.960 of San Diego and a pool and a jacuzzi and 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.760 a tennis court and an elevator and all these amenities, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.160 and that's the garaguy you park your limo. Oh, by 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.959 the way, this was the site of the nation's worst 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:38.280 mass suicide. Well, that has a reputational problem, and obviously 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.600 you're gonna have crime scene stigma, or in this case, 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.760 you know, a stigma with the mass suicide and there 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:49.720 are ways of extracting that data and calculating what an 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.200 appropriate discount would be. So at the end of the day, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.960 I'm looking at the costs, the loss of use, and 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:57.120 the risk effects. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.080 What ended up happening with the Heaven's Gate property. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.040 The house ended up going into foreclosure, and I believe 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:09.240 a neighbor bought it for half of what it had 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.520 previously sold for five years before. And the city tried 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.600 to do a few things. They tried they changed the 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.840 name of the street, which is not that uncommon in 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.840 cases like this, you know, so that someone doesn't google 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.560 an address and it comes up, you know. But when 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.679 they did that, some local news stations cut wind of it, 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.560 and so it's sort of backfired because then it just 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.240 it put the story back on on the news cycle. 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.679 But that one, that one did sell to a neighbor 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.200 at you know, half of what the owner had bought 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:45.600 it for. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.399 That's fascinating. We have to take a quick break, but 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.080 when we come back, we're going to ask Catherine about 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.399 some of the more difficult cases that Randall had to 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:04.560 work on. All right, we're back. We're here with Catherine Fenelosa, 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:09.399 a journalist who's interview with Randall Bell, aka the Master 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:14.040 of Disaster has been fascinating us. Catherine. We've talked a 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.760 little bit about some of the cases Randall has worked on, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.680 which are kind of inherently distressing. But I'm curious if 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.840 there are any cases Randall worked on that were either 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.760 emotionally difficult or even logistically difficult. 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.160 He worked on the World Trade Center, Jim. 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.119 Just a few moments ago, something believed to be a 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.800 plane crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.760 I just saw flames inside. You can see the smoke 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:44.119 coming out of the tower. We have no idea what 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.120 it was. It was a tremendous boom. Just a few 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:51.200 moments ago. You can hear around me emergency vehicles heading 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:52.280 towards the scene. 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.800 His cases are it's so fascinating because it's such a 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:59.119 wide range. But the World Trade Center in that case, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.240 he was also involved in trying to figure out what 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.960 to do. The property in Lower Manhattan was really valuable, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.240 and so you can't have the entire place be a memorial, 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:13.600 but figuring out the balance between a memorial and then 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:18.280 needing to use, you know, rebuild for office space. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.600 I worked on the World Trade Center site and that 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.240 was involving a lot of money, you know, obviously in 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:31.240 the financial district of New York, and it was so large, 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:37.040 both in terms of finances and also just the worldwide 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:42.840 international scope that I wanted to be very careful in 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:47.080 each step because I knew it would be so scrutinized 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.760 at a level that I don't think has happened before 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.200 since you know, I mean, think about it. You have 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.960 two twin towers. You're given a task to put numbers 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.399 on everything. And at the end of the day, courts 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.880 don't award hugs, they don't award apologies. They award dollars. 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.120 And that's what we're dealing with here in terms of 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.359 putting dollar amounts on what all this meant in terms 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.120 of not just the costs, the downtime with the property, 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.439 the lasket, lack of use, and also what's appropriate to 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.000 do with the site. It consumed every cell in my 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.040 brain for months and months and months trying to figure 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:32.679 everything out. We have a sign in my office on 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.879 the wall that says, the more complex the case, the 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.080 more simple the solutions. And I went back to basics 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.440 and what we are taught in the field of real 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.840 estate research is I looked for case studies around the 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.400 world where something similar a proxy would give us clues 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.919 of the appropriate direction that this should go. So we 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:57.719 went to Oklahoma City, I went to Haroshima, Japan. I 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:02.760 went to Pearl Harbor. I went to JFK, the Book Depository. 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.280 I found sites all over the world where there had 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:10.840