1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Manny here before we start today's episode, I'm 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: doing a call out for an advice episode. We're doing 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: another episode where you send us a problem you're having 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: or a dilemma that you're in, and me, Devin and 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Noah will give our takes and try to help you 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: as best we can. So call the number in the 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: show notes and leave us a message or send a 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: voice memo to our email at Manny Noah Devin at 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Enjoy today's episode. I'm Manny. This is 10 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: and this is no such thing the show where we 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research. 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: On today's episode, what happens to a property after a murder? No, 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: there's no no touch thing, No touch, thank touch, thank. 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: Touch, thank you, touch, thank you. 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: All right, boys, we're here. What are you pointing at 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: his shirt? We're getting spooky today? All right, boys, Uh, 17 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: we're here to talk about, uh, this question that that 18 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: actually I don't think I've ever really thought about before 19 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: we came across this, And that question is what happens 20 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: to a property so like an apartment or a home 21 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: after there's been a murder, or especially like a high 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: profile murder that's been in the news. We're going to 23 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: talk to a journalist who essentially did the work for us. 24 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: She's gotten to the bottom of this and you know, 25 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: uncovered a bunch of nuances about this industry, so to speak. 26 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: But before we get to that interview, I wanted to 27 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: ask you, guys, would this be a deterrent for you? 28 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: You you were moving into a place, So let's say 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: you let's do a scenario here where you're at the 30 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: last stages. You know, maybe you've talked to the real 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: estate agent, you put down a down payment, but then 32 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: you find out that twenty years prior to big crime 33 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: that happened there. I mean, well, how do you guys feel. 34 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: I I think my only deterrent wouldn't be the act 35 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: that happened there. I think it would be more if 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 3: like people were coming by all the time, like if 37 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: it was really high profile and like they're like tourists 38 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: coming by and hounding the place. If it was like 39 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: cleaned up or redone and there's not like signs of 40 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: anything happening, Yeah, I think I don't think it would 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 3: bother me. I don't think I'd be so spooked. 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: Maybe if it was like a really extreme thing. 43 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: Where you know whoever John Wayne Gacey or something like yea, 44 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: you know the bodies were under this floorboard or something 45 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 3: like something like that, where it's like, Okay, maybe that 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 3: would be creepy, especially if I'm in, you know, some 47 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: creaky house or something. But I think if it was 48 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: just it's like, okay, yeah, something bad happened here, not 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 3: like the most extreme. I mean, I think I could 50 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 3: be okay with it as long as yeah, it's not 51 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: like people are driving by or coming up and checking 52 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 3: it out all the time. 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: So you're not someone who thinks like there's bad vibes 54 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: in the air like any like, you're not spiritual in 55 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: that sense where you're worried about like the water faucet 56 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: being turned on by itself. 57 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think as long as. 58 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: You know the price is right, I could get over that. 59 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 4: But I think the thing you'd have to think about 60 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 4: is if you were to sell that house, would you 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 4: have issues. Maybe you don't have an issue with it 62 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 4: and you get a good price, but now it's time 63 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 4: for you to sell it and everyone's like, I don't 64 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 4: want to buy that house. That's the house where that 65 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 4: crazy thing happened. Yeah, it's a good point, all right, 66 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 4: And now okay, I put all this money into this 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 4: house and I can't get you know, I'm always thinking 68 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 4: about you know, I'm an HGTV head, so I'm always 69 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: thinking about, you know, flipping it. 70 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, so you have the house, you got 71 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: to think about. 72 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 4: It's an investment. At some point you're going to want 73 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 4: to try to sell it. 74 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 5: But I don't. 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not like a big ghosts or spiritual guy. 76 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 4: I think to know his point as long as it like, 77 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 4: if I was to be able to walk into that 78 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 4: place and not notice or no exactly, then I would 79 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 4: be okay with it. Obviously, if it's a high profile 80 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 4: thing and people are coming and taking pictures, like I 81 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 4: didn't even think about the Sex and the City seen 82 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 4: this the Brownstone in New York where it is this 83 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 4: old man is like putting up you know, like ropes 84 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 4: and stuff because people are sitting on a stoop like 85 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 4: I think also the breaking bad House where he throwst 86 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: of people like to take pictures in front of the house. 87 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 4: So some of that is like all right, it comes 88 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 4: to the territory. But some of it is like all right, 89 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 4: people like let's be respectful someone does live here. Yeah, 90 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: so that would be my biggest worry is that if 91 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: it's you know, you get these fanatics who would show 92 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 4: up to your house. 93 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a notorious location. 94 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, at all hours it a night, or be sneaking 95 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 4: around and it's like, all right, I don't want that 96 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 4: to be happening. 97 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought I've thought about this question. I think, 98 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not spiritual in that way where like 99 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: I think there's a ghost or whatever, and that's why 100 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it. I do wonder if I could 101 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: get over the thought of the thing happening there, like 102 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: if it would be occupying my mind while I lived there. 103 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: Of course, if there if there was a situation where 104 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: they were like, okay, you found out that this thing 105 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: happened here, will give you give you this place half 106 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: off or whatever, like if there's a consideration about the 107 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: price attached to this, I would probably be okay. But 108 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: I certainly think like if I was down in the 109 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: basement doing laundry or whatever and like anything about that, Yeah, 110 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. 111 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 4: I just feel like, you know, people obviously not high profile, 112 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 4: but lots of bad things have happened probably in all 113 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,559 Speaker 4: the places we've lived, unless you're a first person living there. Yeah, 114 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 4: you know, I hear my neighbors are you, And I'm like, 115 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 4: that's not good stuff happened in and there. So I 116 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 4: think to some degree, it's just like bad stuff happens everywhere. 117 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: M h. 118 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 4: I think it's different if we have like a collective 119 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 4: memory about the thing. 120 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what has happened in this studio? Yeah, 121 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: in the past. Yeah, it's possible, you know, go far 122 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: enough back. Yeah, I've gotten bad vibes, Like how like 123 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: to what what extent does it go? Like, could it 124 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: be possible at four thousand years ago some guy hit 125 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: another guy with a rock or something. And that's not 126 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: really gonna deter me from. 127 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: In the United States right here? Yeah, hey, is American 128 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: to me. 129 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: But I think the more interesting question is something I've 130 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: just not thought about before, which is like, what exactly 131 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: is the process of selling these places? So if some 132 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: high profile murder happened in an apartment, what exactly is 133 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: the process, Like, you know, do they let people know 134 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: ahead of time before people try and buy the place? 135 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: Are these places torn down? What the hell is happening? 136 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: Is this an industry, and thankfully we've we've got a 137 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 1: journalist joining us. Her name is Katherine Fenlosa, and she's 138 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: interviewed a man who has become known as the Master 139 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: of Disaster, which is you know, I know this is 140 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: kind of a darker topic, but that is an awesome name. Anyway, 141 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: we've got Katherine waiting for us on a call, so 142 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: why don't we just bring her in? Okay, all right, 143 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: we're here with Katherine Fenelosa. Catherine, we're ready to record 144 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: if you are sure. 145 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: Great. 146 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: Catherine is a journalist who is sharing with us an 147 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: interview that she conducted with a man named Randal Bell. 148 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: Randall has become known for his work surrounding the sale 149 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: and management of real estate that's kind of been stained 150 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: by crime, especially the kind of crime that is high profile, 151 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: the kind of crime that might make it in the 152 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: national news. So, Catherine, I guess my first question is, 153 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, the only person I can kind of imagine 154 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: who'd be able to do this kind of work is 155 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: someone who's, you know, a dark figure, someone who's brooding, pensive. 156 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: Maybe not a whole lot of fun to hang around, 157 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: But what was it like actually talking to the so 158 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: called Master of Disaster. 159 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 6: Well he is. He's a really interesting guy, and I 160 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 6: don't know what I was expecting beforehand, but he's so 161 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 6: kind and gentle that in some ways I was sort 162 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 6: of surprised that this is his line of work, because 163 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 6: it's he's dealing with, like truly the worst sides of humanity. 164 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 6: He's been called to investigate basically the best way to 165 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 6: handle some of the most notorious crimes in the country 166 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 6: or natural disasters, and he does it with such a 167 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 6: He describes himself as a surfer and a skier, and 168 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 6: that comes across He lives in southern California, and he's 169 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 6: got this very sort of Southern California beachy vibe to him, which, 170 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 6: you know, I think if you met him on the street, 171 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 6: his line of work would be the last thing you'd 172 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 6: ever think of. 173 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: I am doctor Randall Bell, and I'm a socioeconomist, and 174 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: I specialize in real estate damage economics. What that basically 175 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: means is that when there's a disaster or a crime, 176 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: or an oil spill, or any number of things a 177 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: natural disaster, I measure what in the legal field is 178 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: called a diminution value. I measure loss and value but 179 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: in order to do that, there's a lot of sociology, 180 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: a lot of finance, a lot of research. 181 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: So how did he get his start on your conversation 182 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: with him? 183 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's interesting. He was a neighbor of Nicole Brown. 184 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 6: You know, she was married to O. J. Simpson, the 185 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 6: football star who then you know, depending on how old 186 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 6: you are, in my childhood, he was like on the 187 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 6: front of every wheaties box, and you know, he was 188 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 6: everywhere selling literally selling orange juice. 189 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 7: The orange juice I grew up on. It's rich in 190 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 7: natural energy, as sweet as an orange right from the 191 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 7: tree right. 192 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 6: Randall Bell lived in the neighborhood where her father lived, 193 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 6: and so after that tragedy, Lou Brown, her dad reached 194 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 6: out to Randall just to say, you know, do you 195 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 6: have any thoughts of what we can do with her condo? 196 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: So when lud told me about the property, I was 197 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: already pretty familiar with the demographics and it's a very 198 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 2: high end area. It's West LA. I don't know that 199 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: people really following the case really appreciated or fully acknowledged 200 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 2: of the human side of it. And Lou and I 201 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: became reasonably close. We would go to lunch several times together, 202 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: and he would share things with me that I've never 203 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 2: shared with anybody, just in terms of the grief and 204 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: the the sadness that this, you know, happened, and what 205 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: he was dealing with there. But in terms of the 206 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: real estate, well, his question to me was, this property's 207 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: we need to sell it for the estate. We got 208 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: bills to pay. There's you know, every disaster has a 209 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: or tragedy has the emotional side, but there's also practical 210 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 2: issues going on kind of behind the scenes, and he 211 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: was concerned about paying the bills. And he said, you know, 212 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: because the property is so famous, is it going to 213 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 2: sell for more or is it you know, he didn't 214 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: know what was going to happen, and that's where I 215 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: said to him, you know, Lou, I don't know, but 216 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 2: let me figure it out. 217 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 6: He really got to start helping Nicole Brown's dad figure 218 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 6: out what to do with her place, and then he 219 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 6: just sort of got a reputation as the guy to 220 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 6: go to I think. 221 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we were what three years old on this Yeah, 222 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: it was happening. So everything I know about this case 223 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: has been learned through you know, movies or documentaries. Were 224 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: actually pretty removed from like the human element of this, 225 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: and it's fascinating to here that you know, he was 226 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: so close to it was either like a next door 227 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: neighbor or like in the neighborhood. 228 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 6: He was in the neighborhood. Yeah, he was in the neighborhood. 229 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: You know. 230 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 6: You hear about all of these cases on the news. 231 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 8: Our happenings in Los Angeles, and that all began with 232 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 8: charges laid by LA Police against oj Simpson in connection 233 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 8: with the brutal slang of his ex wife Nicole and 234 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 8: twenty five year old Ron Goldman. Simpson charge with the 235 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 8: two counts of murder was supposed to surrender to LA 236 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 8: police had too Eastern this afternoon, but failed to show up. 237 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 8: He is now considered a fugitive from this and police 238 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 8: are on the. 239 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 6: Hut and everyone is interested in the moment, and then 240 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 6: sort of the attention goes on to the next you know, 241 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 6: big sensational event and what happens to the families and 242 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 6: the communities that are left behind that really have to 243 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 6: like put everything back together. And that's what really happened 244 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 6: with Randall helping Nicole's family, which was you know, someone 245 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 6: does have to pay the pay the mortgage or the rent, 246 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 6: and so what do you do because now you've got 247 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 6: this property that has this this stigma attached to it. 248 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: I mean. 249 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 6: Another one that he did was Heaven's Gate, which was 250 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 6: nineteen ninety seven, and that was in Rancho, Santa Fe, California, 251 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 6: where a cult, the Heaven's Gate Cult, the thirty nine 252 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 6: members all committed suicide. 253 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: San Diego Sheriff's deputy stumble into a house of the 254 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: multi million dollar mansion filled with dozens of bodies, the 255 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: site of a grim mass suicide. Resident. Do you have 256 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: any comment on the mass suicide. It's shocking. I think 257 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: it's important that we get as many facts as we 258 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: can about this. 259 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 6: It was sort of like a UFO cult. It's a 260 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 6: little it's a little weird. I've tried to like understand it. 261 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 6: But yeah, So they thought there was a comment, I 262 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 6: think it was called the Haley Bop comment, and they 263 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 6: thought when this comment was coming, it was like their 264 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 6: sign to be delivered to eternity. And so the thirty 265 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 6: nine members were living in a mansion in this very 266 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 6: wealthy neighborhood in southern California, and they all committed suicide, 267 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 6: and each member got into bed. They all dressed identically, 268 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 6: and I believe they drank some sort of poison and 269 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 6: they each died in their beds, and Randall was called 270 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 6: by the owner of this property to go in and 271 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 6: figure out what to do with it. And when he 272 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 6: went in the day after the last body was removed. 273 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: I'm often asked, what's the most bizarre case I've worked on? 274 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: It is probably that one. There were two things. One 275 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 2: was just how bizarre the cult people were. I mean, 276 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: in terms of their lifestyle. Every single jar in the pantry, 277 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: every light switch, and this is not an exaggeration, every 278 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: light switch, every switch of any kind, everything in the closets, 279 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: everything was labeled. And I was really puzzled by it. 280 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: And one day I was walking through the property with 281 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: a Wall Street Journal reporter and she says, do you 282 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: know why they do this? And I go, I have 283 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: no idea, and she goes, because they don't want the 284 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: cult members thinking for themselves about anything, even the most 285 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: mundane thing. All the thinking's been done for you when 286 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: you join the cult, And I thought, wow, that makes sense, 287 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: and I haven't ever heard a better explanation in all 288 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: these year since. But there was also the remnants of 289 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: the incident. And I don't want to be graphic. I'm 290 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: not really a graphic person. But when you have thirty 291 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 2: nine bodies in a house for three days in the 292 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 2: summer with no air conditioning, there were a lot of 293 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: body fluids all over the property, and the property smelled 294 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: so bad. I'll never forget. I got in my car 295 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: when I was done going through it, and I went 296 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: back to my house and I literally went around the 297 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: gate to the backyard and jumped in the swimming pool 298 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: with a full suit on. I did not want to 299 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: carry that smell into my own house. 300 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 6: And in the Heaven's gatecase. So how do you start 301 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 6: doing what you need to do? Can you walk me 302 00:16:58,800 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 6: through your process? 303 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: The framework of it's pretty simple. We look at the costs, 304 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: use and risk. So the first thing is the costs 305 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: with Heaven's Gate. There was the cost of saying, okay, 306 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 2: the house steaks. Is that just a thing where we 307 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: get a bunch of frebreeze or do we need to 308 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 2: deal with biological waste? So we hired an environmental company 309 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: to come in and test the porest surfaces, the carpet, 310 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 2: the drapes, the air conditioning, ducting, and they came back 311 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: and said, unfortunately, there is biological matter that's decomposed and 312 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: airborne and all these things need to be demolished. So 313 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: the first step is costs. The second one is, you know, 314 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 2: does the property have any utility while it's being repaired, 315 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: And the answer was obvious, no, you don't move the 316 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 2: family in, you don't live here, you don't try and 317 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 2: rent it right now. So there's a calculation on the 318 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: loss of use and that goes and gets submitted to 319 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: the insurance companies. And then the third thing is the risk, 320 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: and that being once you clean up the property and 321 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 2: fix it up and put it on the market, and 322 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: you say, hey, we've got a ten thousand square foot 323 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: mansion and three acres of land and the spectacular view 324 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: of San Diego and a pool and a jacuzzi and 325 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: a tennis court and an elevator and all these amenities, 326 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: and that's the garaguy you park your limo. Oh, by 327 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 2: the way, this was the site of the nation's worst 328 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: mass suicide. Well, that has a reputational problem, and obviously 329 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 2: you're gonna have crime scene stigma, or in this case, 330 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: you know, a stigma with the mass suicide and there 331 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: are ways of extracting that data and calculating what an 332 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: appropriate discount would be. So at the end of the day, 333 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: I'm looking at the costs, the loss of use, and 334 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: the risk effects. 335 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: What ended up happening with the Heaven's Gate property. 336 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 6: The house ended up going into foreclosure, and I believe 337 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 6: a neighbor bought it for half of what it had 338 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 6: previously sold for five years before. And the city tried 339 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 6: to do a few things. They tried they changed the 340 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 6: name of the street, which is not that uncommon in 341 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 6: cases like this, you know, so that someone doesn't google 342 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 6: an address and it comes up, you know. But when 343 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 6: they did that, some local news stations cut wind of it, 344 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 6: and so it's sort of backfired because then it just 345 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 6: it put the story back on on the news cycle. 346 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 6: But that one, that one did sell to a neighbor 347 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 6: at you know, half of what the owner had bought 348 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 6: it for. 349 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. We have to take a quick break, but 350 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: when we come back, we're going to ask Catherine about 351 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: some of the more difficult cases that Randall had to 352 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: work on. All right, we're back. We're here with Catherine Fenelosa, 353 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: a journalist who's interview with Randall Bell, aka the Master 354 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: of Disaster has been fascinating us. Catherine. We've talked a 355 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: little bit about some of the cases Randall has worked on, 356 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: which are kind of inherently distressing. But I'm curious if 357 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: there are any cases Randall worked on that were either 358 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: emotionally difficult or even logistically difficult. 359 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 6: He worked on the World Trade Center, Jim. 360 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 7: Just a few moments ago, something believed to be a 361 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 7: plane crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center. 362 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 7: I just saw flames inside. You can see the smoke 363 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 7: coming out of the tower. We have no idea what 364 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 7: it was. It was a tremendous boom. Just a few 365 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 7: moments ago. You can hear around me emergency vehicles heading 366 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 7: towards the scene. 367 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 6: His cases are it's so fascinating because it's such a 368 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 6: wide range. But the World Trade Center in that case, 369 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 6: he was also involved in trying to figure out what 370 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 6: to do. The property in Lower Manhattan was really valuable, 371 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 6: and so you can't have the entire place be a memorial, 372 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 6: but figuring out the balance between a memorial and then 373 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 6: needing to use, you know, rebuild for office space. 374 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: I worked on the World Trade Center site and that 375 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: was involving a lot of money, you know, obviously in 376 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: the financial district of New York, and it was so large, 377 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: both in terms of finances and also just the worldwide 378 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: international scope that I wanted to be very careful in 379 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: each step because I knew it would be so scrutinized 380 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: at a level that I don't think has happened before 381 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: since you know, I mean, think about it. You have 382 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 2: two twin towers. You're given a task to put numbers 383 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 2: on everything. And at the end of the day, courts 384 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 2: don't award hugs, they don't award apologies. They award dollars. 385 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 2: And that's what we're dealing with here in terms of 386 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 2: putting dollar amounts on what all this meant in terms 387 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 2: of not just the costs, the downtime with the property, 388 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: the lasket, lack of use, and also what's appropriate to 389 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: do with the site. It consumed every cell in my 390 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 2: brain for months and months and months trying to figure 391 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 2: everything out. We have a sign in my office on 392 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: the wall that says, the more complex the case, the 393 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: more simple the solutions. And I went back to basics 394 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: and what we are taught in the field of real 395 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: estate research is I looked for case studies around the 396 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 2: world where something similar a proxy would give us clues 397 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 2: of the appropriate direction that this should go. So we 398 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 2: went to Oklahoma City, I went to Haroshima, Japan. I 399 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: went to Pearl Harbor. I went to JFK, the Book Depository. 400 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: I found sites all over the world where there had 401 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: been horrific events, and I looked at the real estate 402 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: and I talked to the people running the property, and 403 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 2: they were all very gracious with their time and information 404 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: that they gave to me. So I went on this 405 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: international trip, if you will, to gather information, and that 406 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 2: brought things back down to earth in terms of what 407 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 2: would be appropriate or inappropriate with the World Trade Center site. 408 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: I think we hit a grand slam of doing things right. 409 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 5: The memorial is. 410 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 2: Very fitting, it's very respectful, but at the same time, 411 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 2: the site was carved into four pieces, one for the 412 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 2: memorial and three that redeveloped, one with the Freedom Tower, 413 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 2: and it was the right balance of respect and also 414 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 2: moving forward with the other properties with the financial district, 415 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: and I think it was a nice, fullistic solution to 416 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: the whole thing. 417 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: So Randall worked on the Sandy Hook case. Is that right? 418 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: Like specifically the home of the shooter. 419 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, Sandy Hook was twenty twelve in Connecticut where a guy, 420 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 6: Adam landsa murdered almost an entire kindergarten classroom and the teachers. 421 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: The majority of those who died today were children, beautiful 422 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: little kids between the ages of five and ten years old. 423 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 6: The decision had been made to tear the school down, 424 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 6: but Randall came in to work with the community about 425 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 6: Adam Lands's family home another case that you've worked on. 426 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 6: That in seeing that you worked on this case, it 427 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 6: literally emotionally brought me back to the day was Sandy Hook. 428 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 6: And this is like so inappropriate, but it's going to 429 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 6: make me cry a little bit. I had a first 430 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 6: grader and running to my kids, you know, elementary school 431 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 6: in that day and all the parents, you know, everyone 432 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 6: was silent. You were involved in that case. I'm sorry, 433 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 6: this is like so, I'm surprised at how emotional it's 434 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 6: making me. But do you mind talking about that case? 435 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 2: I feel myself getting kind of emotionally charged a little 436 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: bit because I have four big kids now, but they 437 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 2: were little. It was horrific. What he did is horrific, 438 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 2: and being in his bedroom seeing what I saw with 439 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: the remnants of his obsession with guns being in his 440 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: mother's bedroom where he shot his mom. It's for me too, 441 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 2: and I need to be very careful with my self 442 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: care because I'm dealing with the heaviest of the heavy situations. 443 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: Like when I was the World Trade Center, I had 444 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: to take breaks and just I had to self regulate 445 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: because it can be too overwhelming. On the other hand, 446 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: I need to be clear on what my objective is, 447 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: what my purpose is to try and take this situation 448 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: make it better. And that's what kind of feels me 449 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: to go forward. Because with Sandy Hook, my client was 450 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: the bank that got the property back in the foreclosure 451 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 2: because there's obviously nobody paying the mortgage, so that they 452 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 2: didn't want the property, but they got it back anyway, 453 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: and they didn't know what to do with it. So 454 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 2: I met with the mayor and she was a wonderful person, 455 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: and I met with the chief of police and the 456 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 2: school district people. I met with all of them, and 457 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: I said, you know, the bank is in the business 458 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: and making money, but not in this case. The bank 459 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: simply wants to do that. Now I'm going emotional. The 460 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: right thing for the town for the families, because there 461 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: were families still living right down the street. What I 462 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 2: did is I went to Sandy Hook, I went to 463 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: other school shooting sites. I oftentimes get FBI clearance. 464 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 5: I got all this. 465 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: I don't know about all, but I think I actually 466 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: did get all the recent school shootings, which blew me 467 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 2: away how many aren't publicized, and visited a number of 468 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 2: them and said, here's what happened here, and here and here, 469 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 2: and I laid out a frankly a chart showing every 470 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 2: possible option I can I have researched or found or 471 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 2: am aware of, and we'll let the town make the decision. 472 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: And one night I'm working in my office late and 473 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: the mayor called me and she said, I've talked to 474 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: the families. She says, do you think that we can 475 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 2: get that place torn down? And I said, watch me, 476 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 2: and we did. Some places are just simply not salvageable. 477 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: And I think that's one of them. And I think 478 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: the reasons are pretty apparent. 479 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 4: I think that was the moment where we all realize, 480 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 4: as the country, okay, there's nothing that there's not gonna 481 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 4: be any one act that is going to change the 482 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 4: conversation around gun control in this country, if this hasn't 483 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 4: done it nothing well. And I have my brothers a 484 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 4: lot younger than me, and he was about the age 485 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 4: of those kids, so like it was also for me, 486 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 4: I was like, this is horrific, and if this is 487 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,719 Speaker 4: not something that can actually make us do something, it's 488 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 4: not going to happen. But then I can't imagine, you know, 489 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: going in that community and having to sort of like 490 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 4: face it head on. And I think a lot of 491 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 4: people are probably relying on him to kind of be 492 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 4: this rock in these moments right where it's like, Okay, 493 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 4: this tragedy is happening, I need you to sort of 494 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 4: guide me on what to do next with this property 495 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 4: or in this moment, like I need you to be 496 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 4: the sort of like stable guide in this sort of 497 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 4: tragedy that's happening around me. 498 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely. I think Randall he does hit in an 499 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 6: interesting position because he's trying to help places financially and logistically, 500 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 6: but he also kind of has to act like a therapist, 501 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 6: you know, and talk to all these people and listen 502 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 6: and then try and figure out what is the best 503 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 6: for them, not just financially but emotionally. What's the best 504 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 6: for these communities and these families. 505 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. And another one of these cases that Randal worked 506 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: on that wasn't just emotionally charged but also politically charged, 507 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: was what happened in Orlando. Could you tell us a 508 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: little bit about that. 509 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 6: Twenty sixteen somebody went into this gay nightclub and murdered 510 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 6: forty nine and injured fifty three people. And that one. 511 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 6: From talking to Randall, I sort of got the impression 512 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 6: that one was the most personally life changing for him. 513 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 6: He talks about going in with the owner of the 514 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 6: nightclub and there was no power, but he said it 515 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 6: wasn't dark inside because the size of the bullet holes 516 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 6: that had gone through the glass windows were so large. 517 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 6: He said they were like cannonballs, And so there was 518 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 6: just light streaming from outside. And there was a like 519 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 6: a fifteen foot wide dark stain on the floor, and 520 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 6: he asked the owner what is that and the owner said, 521 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 6: that's blood that was underneath the dance floor. They had 522 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 6: ripped up the dance floor and there was so much 523 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 6: blood that had seet down into the foundation. 524 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: That's where I became very vocal about and being an 525 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: LGBT fer me. I'm not gay myself, But that's where 526 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: I thought, I need to do more personally and anytime, 527 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 2: any chance I get to speak out against this kind 528 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: of injustice, because that's what fueled this thing. But we 529 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: can't speak out of our own ways. My ways small 530 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: and probably insignificant. But I'm going to use whatever voice 531 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 2: I've got to say racism or any of this stuff 532 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 2: is just horrific, and I'll say it as loud and 533 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 2: proud as I can to the day I die. And 534 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 2: that's that case really woke me up to being loud 535 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: and proud about speaking up against social injustice. 536 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: I imagine, like a nightclub property is, you know, for 537 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: his purposes is kind of a valuable thing. What ended 538 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: up happening with that nightclub. 539 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 6: So that the city of Orlando bought the property and 540 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 6: the plan is is that that is going to be 541 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 6: turned into a memorial. Okay, so supposedly in twenty twenty 542 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 6: seven that should be a memorial. 543 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: How did all of this work? How does it affect 544 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: him personally? I mean, does this kind of dampen his 545 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: outlook on life? Have you guys talked about, you know, 546 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: how he kind of processes all of this, how he's 547 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: able to keep doing it. 548 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, that was a question I had for him, because 549 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 6: in some ways, I honestly think the work he's doing 550 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 6: is some of the hardest around crimes because he's he's 551 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 6: really sitting in the emotions with these communities long after 552 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 6: like the initial tragedy, and he's trying to figure out 553 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 6: how to help make them whole, Like how do you 554 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 6: heal these help heal these communities, and whether it's just 555 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 6: like making sure they're getting enough money right through like 556 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 6: the different insurances or whatever it is, but how do 557 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 6: they then rebuild? He talks about going to New Orleans 558 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 6: after Katrina, and you know, there were just tens of 559 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 6: thousands of homes that were destroyed and people just literally 560 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 6: swept away in these waters, and and he talks about 561 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 6: families showing up with what little they had from another state, 562 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 6: like emptied out their four hundred dollars from their bank 563 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 6: account and came and just tried to help anybody who 564 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 6: needed it. So he said it's sort of in these 565 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 6: worst moments that he sees the best sides of people 566 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 6: and that ultimately, you know, it keeps them going because 567 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 6: we as humans do want to help each other in 568 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 6: the face of sort of unimaginable events. 569 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: It's also it's fascinating too, because it's not work that 570 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: it's going to dry up for him, you know, it's 571 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: these these kind of like high profile crimes unfortunately like 572 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: just going to keep continuing, especially as him was saying, 573 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: where you like kind of don't really do anything legislatively 574 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: to prevent some of them, and so yeah, it's just 575 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: really kind of daunting to think that, like he's just 576 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: got a lot of work to do and will continue 577 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: to have a lot of work to do. 578 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 6: Randall sort of ended up in this line of work 579 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 6: also because I think he had a he has a 580 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 6: memory growing up of driving into La with his dad 581 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 6: and it was after the La riots and seeing homeless 582 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 6: families living on the street, and he asked his dad, 583 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 6: He was like, what are what are those people doing? 584 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 6: And his dad started to explain to him, you know, 585 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 6: about the riots and also just that there were people 586 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 6: who who didn't have a place to live, and Randall 587 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 6: I think was six, and he just kept asking his 588 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 6: dad like I don't understand, you know. I think it 589 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 6: was maybe his first exposure where he was old enough 590 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 6: to realize like maybe a little bit of his innocence 591 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 6: had been broken where he was like, wait, this is awful, 592 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 6: Like how can little kids be living on the street, 593 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 6: And that always stuck with him and his dad didn't 594 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 6: have an answer for him. But I think it's something 595 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 6: that he could never shake. And so I think when 596 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 6: lou Brown called him and said, what do we do 597 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 6: with Nichole's place? Because we have to keep you know, 598 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 6: we got to keep paying the bills. We've got to 599 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 6: figure out what to do with this, I think he 600 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 6: had that empathy and wanting to help people who were 601 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 6: in a really difficult situation, and also trying to understand, 602 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 6: you know, something horrible has happened, it's not your fault, 603 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 6: and maybe there's no way, sort of going back to 604 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 6: your point about Sandy Hook and you know, I remember thinking, God, 605 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 6: if we're not going to enact gun legislation, after that 606 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 6: same thought, it's never going to happen. And I think 607 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 6: Randall is sort of in that same situation where he's like, 608 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 6: we're not making things all that much better after these events, 609 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 6: but we need to come together as people to do 610 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 6: what we can. You know, you can't wait for someone 611 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 6: else to try and make things better. And maybe he's 612 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 6: still you know, trying to answer that question that he 613 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 6: had as a kid, like how can this stuff be happening? 614 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 6: And so it's you know, I think he thinks of 615 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 6: this line of work as his little way of trying 616 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 6: to make life better for people who find themselves in 617 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 6: just a horrific situation. 618 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 2: It is insanely heavy stuff. I fully acknowledge it. And 619 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 2: one of the coping mechanisms is that I work hard, 620 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 2: but I also play hard. I live by the beach, 621 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 2: I go skiing a lot, as much as a sixty 622 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 2: six year old guy can do. I beat most of 623 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: the snowboarders down the hill. I have a work life balance. 624 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 2: I do it very conscientiously. But what is it about me? 625 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 2: I think I've come full circle with that day that 626 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 2: my dad took me down to the LA Riots, because 627 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 2: you know, you see the families that are homeless on 628 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 2: the sidewalk. I saw it as a six year old 629 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 2: kid and just saying, why would why is this going on? 630 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: I was just baffled, and I don't know that I 631 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 2: have the answer to that, but I do feel like 632 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 2: I've contributed a little bit to making things better. My 633 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 2: Mom's not here to brag for me, so I'll just say, 634 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 2: these cases tend to find me, and I'm very proud 635 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 2: of that I've made. I think that contribution. I think 636 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 2: that's what keeps me going. 637 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 5: That's why I don't want to retire. 638 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to No Such Thing. Produced by Manny, 639 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: Noah and Devin. The theme song is produced by me 640 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: Manny and this episode was mixed by Steve Bone. No 641 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: Such Thing as a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Executive produced 642 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: by Mangesh Hachi Kador and Kate Osborne. This episode was 643 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: produced with the help of America's Crime Lab. Great podcast 644 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: that everyone should go check out, and thank you to 645 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: our guest Catherine Finelosa. If you like what you're hearing, 646 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: please give us a five star review wherever you're listening 647 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: to this, and be sure to check out our website 648 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: at No Such Thing dot Show. See you next time 649 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: you're 650 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 8: Hell's Hells as Hell's as Hell's as such Thing.