WEBVTT - CLASSIC: What is 'Antifa?' 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.480 Friends and neighbors fellow conspiracy realist, pro fascist, and anti 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:09.720 fascist alike. Back in twenty twenty, there was a word 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:18.800 that kept popping up in US discourse Antifatifa antifa there, Yes, 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:19.319 did you. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.960 Guys see the recent Well it's all some clips going 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.360 around with an FBI official testifying before a congressional committee 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:32.680 about antifa and how it's the most dangerous domestic terror 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.440 threat within the United States right. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.320 Now, and really dropping the ball when as specifics, because 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.959 it turns out it's kind of like saying the biggest 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.400 threat to the United States is feminism and you say, well, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:45.640 where's their headquarters? 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.479 Well, and I go, I don't know. Well, I guess that's 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.559 the thing. I mean. Back in the simpler days of 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.160 twenty twenty, where this was really just starting to get 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.720 thrown around, I think it was pretty clear what it 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.680 was in terms of like a concepts or you know, 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.320 the idea of being anti fascist. But then like a 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.200 lot of terms in the wrong hands kind of get 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.920 weaponized and redefined and taken over. So it'll be kind 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.800 of an interesting time capsule, honestly. Oh yeah, to see 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:15.200 where we were and where we are. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.600 Well, we know, when it comes to things like revolutions, 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.360 and idea can be one of the most dangerous and 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:26.960 viral things that exists. Right, So there is something maybe 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.960 to be thinking about here when it comes to an 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.440 opposition to whatever the status quo is or you know, 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.600 a current administration or something. Maybe the idea of whatever 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:42.360 antifa is could be their biggest threat, which is weird 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:42.960 to think about. 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.520 Yeah, the mission creep of definitions, Right, this phrase is, 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.760 as we said at Portmanteau, of anti fascist, which in 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.680 general is something people can universally agree upon being bad 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.200 in a democracy. But now, as we'll see it, may 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.840 the term may have experienced definition creeps such that it 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:09.400 becomes defined as anything antithetical to what I like. 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.920 That's right. You'll even remember in that recent kind of 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.480 love fest in the Oval Office between Mondomni, the recently 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.600 elected mayor of New York City, and President Trump, who 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.799 had previously been mega mega against that dude, he made 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:25.919 a little joke about, Oh, it's okay, you can say 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.639 I'm a fascist. Just go ahead, it's fine, it's fine. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:35.239 Like the level of truthlessness almost that that term has 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:41.240 achieved in a way, it's a little it's a little concerning. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.600 So to that earlier point, let's roll the tape and 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.160 let's see what we learned in twenty twenty and how 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:50.799 it's aged in the modern day. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.880 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:01.280 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.320 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.040 A production of iHeartRadio. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.919 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:20.000 my name is Noah. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:21.440 They call me Ben. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.320 We are joined as always with our super producers Paul, 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:30.080 Mission Control Decand as well as Alexis nicknamed to be 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.640 Determined Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.320 and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know, 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.200 or at least that's the name we use when we 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:48.200 describe this show. Today's question starts with first figuring out what's. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:48.040 In a name. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.320 We know they're powerful currency in the modern media, right, 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.240 They're a cognitive shortcut. You've only got so much time 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.040 on air if you're a news anchor. Names can also 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.760 function as what's known as a thought terminating shay. This 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.160 is familiar. It's a long time conspiracy realist, and the 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.240 more we think about this insidious practice of grouping multiple 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.400 things under one phrase, the more often we notice it. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.000 Conspiracy theorists. That's an easy phrase as an example, but 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.480 then there are things like truthers, for instance, snowflakes, or 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.479 for an historical example, forty nine ers. This is common. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.320 This naming practice is common in all walks of life, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.919 numerous fears of debate. There's not one political group that 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.160 does it more than any other. If you're watching the 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.200 news in the United States recently, you are aware of 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.640 a term that has attained a new prominence all its own, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:46.560 antifa or antifa, antifa, antifa antifa. 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:48.840 I think it just depends where you are when you're 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.160 saying it. Perhaps we're gonna find out what it means 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.320 and you'll realize that all of those kind of work. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:59.160 It's it's funny because antifa sounds like someone's aunt who's 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.280 like named fa, you know, or like short for parah. Well, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.480 we're also, regardless of how you choose to pronounce it, 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:12.240 you're probably aware of just how controversial this term and 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.120 what it represents can be. It's not a stretch to 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.839 say there are, if we're being diplomatic, differing opinions about 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.240 what antifah actually is and we can't even agree how 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.080 to pronounce it. And as we explore these opinions, we 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:31.360 quickly find ourselves hip deep in conspiracy. But first, here 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:32.200 are the facts. 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.800 Yeah, I mean, so, you know, let's just do a 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.800 little housekeeping with the term here. What does antifha actually mean? 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.920 Where does the word come from? It seems to many 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.640 of us to be a very recent development, at least 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.560 here in the United States. The term traces back, however, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:53.000 to Germany. In the nineteen thirties, the Communist Party of 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.800 Germany had a wing called I'm going to do my 0:05:54.839 --> 0:06:01.000 best here anti fascistischa achchion. I'm not perfect, but I 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.000 think that was close. There's a lot of repeated sounds 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.120 in that one. It's I had to do a double take. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.000 And this later became referred to by a much more 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:16.200 abbreviated and punchy word antifa, or of course anti fascists. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.720 I got okay, So one thing I want to hear 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.640 what you guys think about this is entirely my unfounded opinion. 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:24.520 This is not a fact and should be not taken 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.800 as such. But it seems to me, if you want 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.080 to build a lasting movement or rally around some sort 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.120 of cause it's smarter to make a name that stands 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.640 for something rather than against it. Like a good example 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:42.880 in this nomenclature would be the two very different names 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.200 used on others on opposite sides of the abortion debate. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.880 Supporters of abortion are most likely going to describe themselves 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.719 as pro choice, right, and opponents would describe themselves as 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:59.479 pro life. They're not anti abortionists by their own description, 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.520 and people aren't necessarily on the pro choice side describing 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:03.200 themselves as. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:05.680 Pro abortion. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.919 I don't know, there's a marketing power in names there, so, 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:13.640 Like anti fascism starts as what like it's against something 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.200 that already existed, right. 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.840 Yeah, but it's against something that I think most people 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.760 would typically characterize as bad. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:23.120 Right. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.840 That's the thing that's so interesting about this whole debate, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.320 Like when well, yeah, I don't know, Matt, what do 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:28.640 you think? 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.200 Well, I just I would say, first we have to 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.360 know what fascism is, right, And that's another part of 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.920 this whole thing that that word, that term gets thrown 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.640 around an awful lot, and you know, it's on us 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.720 to learn what that is before we, you know, are 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:44.920 throwing around antifa. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.760 Yeah, like if my boss makes me work on a weekend. 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.600 I call that person a fascist. That's appropriate use of 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:51.360 that term. Right. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.320 Well, we're gonna find out here in a moment. The 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.080 big thing is that today when that you know, that 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.920 term antifa is thrown around, it's really misleading because it's 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.720 being applied to a ton of different individuals, of groups 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:09.400 and organizations, of even the the tactics that are employed 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.720 by individuals or groups. And you know, the idea here 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.480 is to fight fascism, right. It is short for anti 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:22.840 fascism against fascism, So what exactly is fascism? 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:23.480 Right? 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.560 And now now we're in even deeper definitional water, right, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:34.280 because fascism, like antifa or anti fascism, doesn't really have 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.960 its own solid, uh solid definition. Fascism does have a 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.640 fascinating history. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:43.760 Sorry, I'm gonna leave. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.560 Yeah, I can see you can't leave. You're already home, Matt. 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.520 Where are you gonna go anywhere? 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.280 But here I've seen all of the zoom going. We're 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:53.760 just gonna move on. We'll pretend that. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.960 No, no, we were all with this here on. They 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.120 don't want you to know, but it's true. It's it's 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.000 a word that comes from something seeming pretty innocuous. It's 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:06.679 an Italian word fascio, referring to a bundle, which in 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.400 this case would represent groups of people. So, you know, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.160 I think we'll get to this, but it's become negative 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.920 by association. The initial like it wasn't designed to be 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.120 an inherently negative thing. It was just designed to be descriptive. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.080 It's origins date all the way back to ancient Rome, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.880 when the fascis was a bundle of wood with an 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:33.680 axe head that was carried by leaders in Roman politics, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:38.200 and the finding fascism today is much more complicated because 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.679 of the fact that many governments, organizations, and individuals have 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.120 been called this. It's been lot you know, lobbed around 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.080 as kind of a term of abuse. In post World 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.920 War Two, this was often used as an insult by 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:56.000 opponents or critics of a given movement or a government, 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:57.600 like the way I, you know, talk about. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.400 My boss who loves this show. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.640 By the way, I know, I don't mean it, which. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:03.920 One I don't know of the loves is show. 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:05.320 We have so many bosses. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:09.360 Now that's corporate America, my figurative boss. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.760 You guys, this is not this is just for the 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.840 purposes of demonstration. Here, But it was Mussolini that really 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.240 got the phrase to kind of catch fire and be 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.440 associated with what we think of as fascism today. 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:23.600 True story. 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.800 Yeah, you're right, Noel in nineteen fifteen, one of the 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:33.839 only bad bends in history. There aren't a ton of them, Yeah, 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.080 Benito Mussolini. That's where we think of fascism. That's the 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:41.880 sort of origin story of modern fascism. And when we 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.680 tried to define it, we see that a lot of 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.960 people in academia and politics have made their careers based 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.080 on arguing what the hell this is or is not. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:59.200 Generally speaking, it's somewhere between a specific genre of authoritarian 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:04.920 government and a set of tactics deployed by governmental institutions. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:09.280 So kind of like how all mazes are puzzles, but 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:14.360 not all puzzles are mazes. All fascist governments are authoritarian, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.480 but not all authoritarian governments are fascist. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:23.640 Very good, ben I love the old mazes, puzzles analogy. 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.080 So let's talk about what those characteristics are, right, and 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.920 some of them are. You know, how they function and 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.160 then what they do, actions they take. So you could 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:40.080 describe a fascist group or government as being very very 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:45.080 against and opposed to their opposers to anyone who is 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.360 going to be a dissident or not believe the same 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:52.360 things that they believe or fight against I guess the 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:57.040 desired beliefs of a populace. They're going to aggressively attempt 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.480 to suppress that or block that in some way. They 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.120 are going to attempt to, you know, use whatever power 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.200 that they do have this group or government, to essentially 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.440 use it in a dictatorial way. So what they say 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.880 goes anybody else. Again, going back to the first one, 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.400 is not welcome. They want to have intense control on 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.000 everything that occurs within their society, within the whatever it 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.040 is that they control. Right, that's everything from the economy 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.720 to what people can and can't do in their personal lives. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.400 And another characteristic here is that depending on how let's say, 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.840 let's just say it's a government, depending on how the 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.520 politics and government work within an individual area, when you 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.320 have a fascist group in power, essentially this group is 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.240 going to see fit to change whatever rules existed prior 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.680 to them coming into power. Right That's I guess one 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.080 of the things that we could say there. 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.280 Well, I think hand in hand with that comes a 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.280 strong sense of nationalism. Yes, because it's there has to 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.520 be an other ing, you know, in order to say 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:03.520 we are the ones who are right, we are the 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.480 righteous path. All others who oppose us are wrong and 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.319 therefore need to be shut down. And that requires kind 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.480 of like a you know, it's us against the world, 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.240 and that inherently is a pretty nationalist kind of view. Right. 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.440 Well, yeah, that's a very important important thing here, is 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.760 that wherever they are functioning, there's going to be a 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:27.040 US versus everyone else's attitude. Essentially, that's put forth in 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.880 everything from laws to you know, small things on the 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.160 books that you wouldn't call a law necessarily just kind 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:38.440 of a norm. Ultra nationalism is certainly a factor. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.360 Here, and it can't. It's sort of the way that. 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.480 This is a weird sentence I never thought I would say, 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.880 not as a dean on capitalism or fascism, but a 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.559 comparison I think that's worth making, is that the same 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:58.840 way capitalism must have a profit motive to exist for 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:03.720 that mechanism to work, fascism must have a conflict motive 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.480 to exist. Fascism must exist in opposition to something. And 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:14.400 also it's super convenient if you're an iron gloved dictator, 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.520 because you can just change what fascism means whenever you want. 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.600 You know what I mean, We've always been at war 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.760 with East Asia, Right, that's one of the most pivotal 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.560 impactful lines of fascism in fiction and or well in 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:33.080 self of course about anti fascist or antifa member. But 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:38.960 so antifa is something we can't fully define fighting something 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:44.400 and we also fully defined we know the characteristics, we 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.640 know the actions and the tactics. But I'm intrigued to 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.000 hear more about antifa history because, like you said, Nola 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.080 doesn't it didn't start in twenty seventeen in Charlottesville. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.760 Yeah, that's right. I mean, as a movement, it has 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.520 its own origins and what we might describe as the left, 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.160 even the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the idea of 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:12.479 anarchists and the like. So while fascism is often characterized 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:18.560 as being a far right, militaristic, you know, hypernationalist ideology, 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.720 again problematic to even you know, assign it to an ideology. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.960 In particular, anti fascism is the opposite. It's it's it's 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.800 very much something that that that leans far to the left. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.840 Part of this comes from the simple order of operations 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.760 that you find in history. Leftist groups were the first 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:41.000 primary targets of fascist violence, and it arose as a 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.040 reaction to that violence, as a way to organize and 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:50.880 protect folks that were identifying in this way from these 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:51.640 types of attacks. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.560 And there's an author who is cited quite often when 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.120 discussing this topic. His name is Mark Bray and he 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.960 wrote Antifa the Anti fas Just Handbook, and he writes 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:06.720 about how you know, the modern movement of antifa, it 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.560 really started in the nineteen eighties, and there's a group 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:14.520 at that time called Anti Racist Action. Its members confronted 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.040 neo Nazis, another pretty modern movement of an older thing. 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:19.520 Right. 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.680 They would go to punk gigs, you know, music performances 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.240 and everything, and they would gone in the Midwest and 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.320 other places in the United States and they would just 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.000 actually have confrontations with people that they believed to be 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:34.120 neo Nazis. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.640 Are you guys familiar with the sharp movement yep, Skinheads 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:38.920 against racial Prejudice. 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.920 I always found that to be fascinating. It's like, you know, 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.840 with a rise and skinheads, and like punk rock scenes 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.960 and hardcore scenes in the eighties, there was a splintering 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.800 and folks who like I guess, still identified with the 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.640 aesthetic of a lot of that, but we're not about 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.800 that life, not about that nationalists ideology, and it was 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:04.960 something that began in New York in nineteen eighty six. 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.720 But the idea of you know, someone that like, hey, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.800 skinheads can be cool too, you know, we can also 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.919 be like about equality, and so therefore you have the 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:15.679 sharp movement. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.000 I think it's a tremendous point. It's one that echoes 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.639 what we set up at the beginning, which is these 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:27.639 grouping disparate movements or people under the same convenient figure 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.800 of speech or turn or phrase. Sure it feels good 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.680 to do that, because we're humans. We categorize and classify things. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.600 We want to see patterns, but we do a disservice 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.520 to ourselves and others when we fall into that trap. 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.119 By the early two thousands, the Antifa movement in the 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.840 US was I guess considered mostly dormant in terms of 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.200 mass media, Like, there were definitely groups who align themselves 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.960 with that, they just weren't getting in CNN. 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.080 Yeah, and they certainly weren't getting but they were also 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.800 they were showing up every once in a while. I 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.199 don't know if you guys remember, especially during George W. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.159 Bush's presidency, there were a ton of protests and there 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:16.399 was some reporting on anti fascist movements, but it was 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.399 very few and far between, and I can't recall at 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.560 least any major protests that turned violent in a way 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:28.640 that the you know, group in power, whoever was president 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.800 at the time, whoever was running the show, that they 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:36.160 had such a response I guess, or a public response 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:42.200 against this group or people who they labeled as Antifa. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.400 Or like Black Bloc as well and occupied movements, which 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.960 we'll get in Doorri. We'll meet the Black Bloc later. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:56.120 Now fast forward to just a few years ago. Don't 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.000 call it a comeback, or do call it a comeback? 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.280 Antifa is back in the new whose they get new 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.879 modern prominence after the events of what was called the 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.399 Unite the Right rally. You probably remember the photographs that 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.800 went around the US and the world of people marching 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.920 with tiki torches saying things like Jews will not replace us. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.919 This was a gathering of numerous right wing groups, including 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.760 as you can tell from that slogan, white supremacist in Charlottesville, 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:32.760 Virginia and August of twenty seventeen, Antifa was back in 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:41.800 the news described as counter protesters in this debacle, and today, 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.719 you know, it'd be surprising to look through most news 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.920 sources on their websites or watch most news channel shows 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:57.320 and not notice some sort of mention of Antifa. But 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.399 the groups, there are groups who identifi as anti It's 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.639 a very real thing. This wasn't made up out of 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.000 whole cloth. The problem is that there are a number 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.280 of groups identifying with this, and they have different, at 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.800 times contradictory goals, and they have an even wider range 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:13.000 of different tactics. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.480 Right, yeah, that's right. I mean it would typically be 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:20.040 stuff you would categorize as non violent, like chanting, shouting, 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.440 having sit ins, human chains, you know, holding up signs, 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:29.520 the like. But ANTIFAP has become controversial because they're like 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.359 any loved together large movement that there are many, many 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.120 kind of splintered factions of like with the skinhead example, 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:44.159 there are going to be more extreme, little kind of 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:49.400 offshoots of this. So some of these factions of protesters 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.520 that's often referred to as agitators, which is another kind 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.560 of term of abuse that's very easy to categorize. All 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.119 of the members of this movement as agitators because of 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.880 a couple of bad apples or whatever, if you will. 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:04.840 Got to hate that term, but it's what we have. 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.720 So there's a belief in direct action, confrontation, and at 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:16.080 times violence. That can include things like actual weapons, pepper spray, 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:22.679 brass knuckles, throwing bricks through store windows and cars, vandalism, graffiti, 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:27.320 knives and you know, switchblades, things like that that are 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.520 easily conceivable, and in the modern day, it can include 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:35.119 internet based tactics, things like doxing, when you release people's 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:41.800 personal information or basically, you know, just outright misinformation, spreading 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:47.399 about individuals and trying to ruin people's reputations online. So 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.920 for example, releasing personal information about a victim online, getting 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.200 someone fired for their political views, putting them on blast 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.480 in that way, not in a positive way, which someone 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.960 maybe deserves it, but I guess deserving it depends on 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:01.959 side of the argument you're on. Some of these folks 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.120 who are righteously indignant might believe that they are doing 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.600 the right thing that that's not really the point. So 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.359 why are there so many conflicting narratives and is there 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:11.440 one way? 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.880 Is there like a truth core to this whole thing. 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.240 So it really does take us back to the main 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:21.640 problem here. And that's in the same way when you're 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.840 dealing with a group that has no leader, right, that 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:30.080 has no head, that has no mission statement essentially for 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:34.360 the entire group, and control you know, from one sector 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.119 or from one governing board, however you want to put it, 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.639 Just like Anonymous, the same thing with Antifa, there is 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.560 nobody at the helm. It is like minded people that 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:51.000 identify as this movement as Antifa. And again, much like 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:55.320 groups like Anonymous with Antifa, when someone claims they are 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:59.960 on Tifa, they are on Tifa. That's how it goes, right, 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:01.080 and that's. 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.480 Your qualification is wanting to be that right? 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.639 Yes, and then generally, you know, there's no swag to 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.480 buy necessarily. I'm sure you could find it somewhere on Pinterest. 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.240 Somebody's got an amazing Antifa store there. 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.400 It's not like the KKK or the Communist Party. I'm 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.600 picking two different organizations, so I'm not picking anyone. Like 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:24.639 you want to be in the Communist Party, you have 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.040 to apply dual body, you have to join, there's a membership, 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.879 there are probably dues. KKK is the same they have ranks, 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:36.080 they have a hierarchy that doesn't exist in this concept. 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:38.960 Yeah, or like the Crips and the Bloods who both 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.199 had their own soda in Atlanta at least for a 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:45.040 while there thanks to Killer Mike. Good on you, Killer Mike. 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.840 You know you have to you have to look at 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:52.960 this in from both sides, right, And that's what we're 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.520 tempting to do today. So not only do you just 0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:59.919 get to decide that you're Antifa and then you be 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.680 come Antifa. In the same way, if you have an opponent, 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:06.840 let's say, or someone that you dislike their views with 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.560 and you label them through your words or actions Antifa, 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.359 then guess what they are until that person comes forward 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:17.080 improves that they are not right. 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.240 And then you could say, that's exactly what an ANTIFA 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.120