WEBVTT - Emilio Castillo 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.920 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left That's podcast. My 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.760 guest today is Emilio Castillo, the only man who's been 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:22.639 in every iteration of Tower of Power. Emilia, good to 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.880 have you here, thank you, good to be here. Okay, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.040 why was it named Tower of Power? Oh? Kind of 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.280 a boring story. You know. We were called the Motowns. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.600 We're a little soul band in the East Bay, in 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.000 the Bay Area, and uh we wanted to get into 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.680 film or West and so we thought we'll never get 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.360 in there, you know, with these suits and razor cuts 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.199 and a name like the motown So we thought we 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.879 got to find one of those weird names, like all 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.640 those bands Quicksilver, Messenger Service and loth In hand People. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.440 And you're like one of the few people remembers Lothor 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.960 of the hand People out of Denver. Well, his drummer 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.400 used to record from. Okay, there you have it. But 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.520 we we were on a break out a little studio 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.280 and Hayward and Uh, I was sitting at the desk 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.040 of the owner and there was like a three page 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.880 list of all weird band names. Really, and I'm looking 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.800 at the names, I'm going there, there's no way we 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.520 can't be this, we can't. But then I saw the 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.480 name Tower of Power and they go, hey, guys, what 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.560 about Tower of Power? They go, yeah, yeah, that's us, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.360 you know, and that was it. Well that's really funny 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.120 because I thought it was, you know, such a large 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.920 band with all the different horns, etcetera. And therefore it 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.160 was called Tower of Power. I think that's what they 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.520 thought about the name, you know. Okay, so when it 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:35.280 was the Motown's was the goal too? Was it like 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.600 a band that played it, you know in bars? Because 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.280 obviously named like the Motime, you're playing motimes, you're playing 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.920 R and B music, or it was the goal always 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.000 to become a big success, get a recording deal. You know, 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.400 I'd be lying if I told you I even thought 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.160 that deep. You know, we just loved playing music, particularly 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.120 sold music. We played nightclubs, bars, after hours joints, a 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.480 lot of after hours joints where you had to not 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.280 only play, but entertained because there was no dancing in 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.680 the Bay Area between two and six am. It was 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.079 a blue law. Okay. Just so uh from different days, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.799 When was the last time you get a drink? You 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.480 got you stopped drinking? Are two from two to six am. 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.960 They went into the parking lot and drank and then 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.639 came in and drank cokes while you were playing. Okay, 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.720 but you could play, but they couldn't dance, and they 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.480 couldn't drink a couldn't dance, Yeah, okay, I mean New 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.920 York is a really late night town. L A is 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.880 a really early town. If that era in the early 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.960 seventies was the Bay Area that late at night of 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:38.640 a town. Yeah, this is actually uh you know, late sixties. Yeah, 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.840 And you know, there was two cities in the Bay 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.239 Area where you could dance at those times. One was Fremont, California, 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.000 where we lived, and the other one was all Benny, California, 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:49.840 on the other side of the East Bay. And you 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.640 could actually dance there. And so they were always looking 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.160 for really good dance bands bands and you could dance 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.520 good too. And it would go through the whole Bay Area. 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.440 You know, people in San Francisco, Palo Altos and say, 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.640 they say, oh, there's a good band to dance too, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.720 you know, and at Little Richard's in Fremont, and we 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.800 would we would play be four hours in San Jose, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.480 pack everything up, drive there at two thirty in the morning. 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.799 We'd be set up and ready to go. We'd hit 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:15.840 it and people would come in and they would just 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.800 be dancing. There was a wrought iron railing around this 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.080 little dance for it. They'd be bent over it like 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.800 this man just dancing, you know. And then they go 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.600 out on the brakes and drink and come back and 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.760 dance some more. Okay, how big was that club? You 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.560 a small club? I mean, how many people would be 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.560 dancing on the floor. I don't think you could fit 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.720 fifty people, Okay, That's why I was asking the size 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.680 of that. Okay, But the club was packed besides the 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.280 dance flo okay, just so I know, and that in 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.400 those two clubs we could dance becauld. They also serve 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:50.280 alcohol between just up until two, up till two and 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.400 then up. And what happens at six am they opened up. 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.640 They took this plywood off the bar and they opened 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.560 up the bar, and we continue playing for two more hours, 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.480 and inevitably we'd finish around seven, you know, and the 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:05.720 borrower would come up and you put a twenty dollar 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.000 bill on my B three and he'd say, play another set, 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:14.720 and we would take it. Wow. Okay, at the time, 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.160 you were the boat towns. How many nights a week 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.719 we are playing? Well, you know, we used to play 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.080 weekends when we were kids, and then you graduated high 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.039 school and then we played whenever we could. Obviously we 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.800 were doing before hours gigs to you know, and but 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.600 you know we weren't like really popular with like the 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.239 high schools and stuff because we got into nightclubs early. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.880 So you know, we're playing around the bar of black 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.720 nightclubs regularly, just those kind of after hours joints. There 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.560 was Soul City and Hayward. There was a Lucky thirteen 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.560 in Albany, there was Frenchies were sly Stone, so they 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.800 got his name. You know, all these clubs and we 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:50.160 played a lot, okay, and then you change your name 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.160 to Tower of Power. Did you get into the film 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.360 or west? Well, what happened is, you know, I met 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:59.120 this guy Doc, that's my songwriting partner, Stephen Coopka, and 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.800 uh he was the first. Why he wasn't yet he 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.240 was Steve just a jump ahead. Why did he turn 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.000 into Doc? Because his father was kind of a famous 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.120 doctor that got caught in this scandal in Berkeley. And 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.280 our singer Rick Stevens, Uh, he's the guy that went 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.000 to jail for thirty seven years. He found out about 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:20.840 Doc's dad and said, oh man, we gotta call you 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.320 the doctor. And then the guy taking the photos of 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.200 our first record, So yeah, we'll call him the funky Doctor. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.520 And then over the years he just became Doc. Everybody 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.680 calls him. Okay, So how did the father get in trouble? Yeah, 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:33.920 it's kind of a you know, sortad story. I think 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.400 he had a mistress and that kind of embarrassment to 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.080 the family. Okay, And then talk about the thirty seven 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.680 years up up the river while we're there. Well, that 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.400 was my lead singer, Rick Stevens. He was our second 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.000 lead singer, and I fired him for heroin addiction, and 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.640 about four years later he went on a drug run 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.560 and killed three people and went to prison for three 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.000 or seven years. They pinned it all on us, although 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.159 he'd been out of the band four years, you know, right. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.000 And so just because this an interesting fact, how many 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.719 lead singers this Tower of Power had, you know, I 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:09.800 lost count? Okay, let's go back to fillmore West. So 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.560 what happened? So Doc is the first hippie I ever met, 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.360 and he played the baritone sacks. You know, and we 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.360 were trying to add a horn, uh horn with somebody 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:21.960 to the section. We thought we wanted a trombone player, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.760 but you know, they weren't working out. They were really square. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.920 They couldn't do the steps, you know. And so we're 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.880 doing this gig and I met Doc and he says, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.080 you know, you got a good band, but your horn 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.520 section needs some bottom. And by the way I played 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.919 the berry Sack, I invited him to come, and you know, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.280 all the guys like when he gets there, hippie guy, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.400 you know, and they're all like, you know, what's this, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.920 you know, and I go, uh, guy's a quirky guy, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.280 plays the barry, you know. So he comes in and 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.640 immediately as soon as we heard the sound, we loved it, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:52.839 you know. And so he's in the band for a while, 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.240 and he really likes what I do with all the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.400 songs because I used to change all these soul tunes 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.840 around to make them sort of unique, our own. And 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:02.560 he says to me, you know, why don't we write 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.560 our own songs? That we started writing first song we 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.040 ever wrote, You're still a young Man. And then, you know, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.239 we knew it was a dead end playing the stuff 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.720 we were doing so, you know, all those clubs, so 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.200 everybody was going to the Film or West and Bill 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.680 Graham had started that the two record labels. There was 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.120 Film More Records in San Francisco Records, and everybody was 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.320 trying to get on there. So we submitted a tape 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.680 and to our surprise, he wanted to scid us. I 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.960 think David Rubinson had a lot to do it. Okay, 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.080 a little bit slower. Okay, when you change your name 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:40.200 to Tower of Power, have you already submitted the tape? Uh? 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.800 It was the writer around the same time actually, which 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.320 changed your name the Tower of Power, and then you 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.040 know we're recording this. We we we started writing songs 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.040 and we recorded a few of them, but we recorded 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.600 a lot of covers, but there covers our own sort 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:01.080 of version, like Joe Cocker. Would we arrange the song? Right? Okay, 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.960 how did you hook up with David Rubinson? Well, he 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.320 was the guy that Bill Graham brought out to the 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.960 Bay Area. He was the you know, the big producer. 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.880 He had produced Moby Grape and some others, and and 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.960 they went into business and started these two record companies. Okay, 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:19.520 so you submitted the tape that you had made independently. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.680 David was not involved producing. It was not the thing 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:27.080 is We got uh a slot on the Tuesday Night auditions. 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.640 It was in November. Okay, this is like early in 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:35.760 the year. This is nine, and we had we had 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.080 gotten busted for being underage for drinking because we're in 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.680 one of those after hours joints and the bar opened 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.120 and my trumpet player got a drink. The ABC busted us. 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.600 So all of a sudden, we had no gigs and 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.800 we're aiming for this gig in November at the film 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.360 wore and that's like our only hope. Okay, I mean, 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:55.760 I know the film or reachs. I grew up in 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.880 the East Coast. Tuesday Night was kind of like the 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.480 Troubadoor in l A or What Night. How did it worked? Yeah, 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.000 audition They would have like five bands and then they 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.120 all wanted to get signed to Bill Grahams. But it 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.560 was open to the audience. Oh yeah, I was packed. Okay, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.000 So you're how did you get that gig? You like 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.600 submitted your request, you know. We went there and we said, 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.280 you know, we want an audition, and they said, okay, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.240 we got a slot novem whatever. Okay, Well, did you 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.679 have a manager? At this point? You were effectively the manager. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:31.839 We just didn't have a manager. I was the leader. 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.400 That's why who you know, they always had someone who 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.679 was making the connection. Usually it's the drummer. So I'm surprised. Well, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.520 my brother was a drumm and he was older, and 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.520 so he was the leader first. But my dad made 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.040 me be the leader. Your dad made you be the leader. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.240 He said, you know, you need to be. When I 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:50.680 was younger, you know, he said you need to be 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.000 the leader, and I go, I don't want to be 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.360 the leader. Jack's older, you know, he's the leader. And 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.720 he goes, no, no, you're the one. You're the one 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.880 you need to be. He forced me. Okay, two things. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.080 How much older as your brother? Mons? Okay, so he's 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.560 really not that much older. Well you don't think like 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.280 that when you're a kid, I know, but people talk 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.920 about older brothers sometimes ten years. The next thing, what 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.000 did your father see in you that he knew you 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.240 had to be the leader? He saw musical talent, he 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.720 saw a creativeness, and he saw just a passion for it. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.480 I mean when I started the band, you know, life 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.280 change for me completely, and my focus was that band 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.679 and it's been that way for fifty years. Okay, we'll 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.959 get back to that, but now you have this Thursday 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.320 night audition, continue from Tuesday. Excuse me, Tuesday night audition 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.680 continue from there. So you know we have been busted. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.760 So we're just like that audition is all we got. Meanwhile, 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:40.880 we had made the tape and we got a friend 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.480 of ours. He edited it and we submitted it to 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.280 the film More. OK a little bit slower. Where did 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.840 you make that tape? Who produced that tape? What happened 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.800 at the after hours joint? Really? Yeah? You know, you 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:53.960 just taped our sets and then a friend of ours 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.280 who was a drummer for quite a famous band called 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.400 the Loading Zone. They were they were already playing the 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.199 film or West, and he edited them. He said, you know, 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:03.960 let me take care of these edit. We were like, 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:05.920 what's edit? We didn't even know what that was. Do 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.000 you remember how many songs were on that original tape? 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.120 For how long it was? So when we gave it 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:15.839 to them, there was probably Yeah, we had a lot 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.840 of missions. Okay, original though, right right? I realized, but 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.200 you know today demo tapes like you know, three songs, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.400 but there was like ten Originals. Okay, so you get 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.520 the Tuesday night slot. What happens, Well, you know, we're 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.840 the we're the closer for some reason. And uh, there's 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.679 like five bands, and any of those bands we ever 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.959 heard of since I remember Neil Sean was in one 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.840 of them. Yeah, yeah, and I remember real clearly. Yeah. 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:43.640 And but they were all the same, you know. They 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:45.880 were like playing in A and E and you know, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.760 had guitars and you know, and they were like rock bands, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.920 you know. And then we come out and we got 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.040 all these horns, and we got this short, little black singer, 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.040 you know, and they took one look at us, they 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.760 turned around, they started walking out, and we hit with 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.160 the a song called Opened the Door by James Brown, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.280 but a little bit and it was like somebody said 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.400 about face. Man, they all just turn around, start walking back, 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.400 and I see this head stick out of this place 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.800 in the back, and that was Bill Graham. He always 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.400 liked rhythm, he always like horns, and he was like 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.520 he checked it out, you know. But we were at 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.280 the end of our rope and I was going back 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.920 to Detroit my parents and moved back there, and I 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:29.880 told the guys, I'm going back for the holidays. If 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.840 nothing happens, I'm not coming back. We were starving because 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.320 we couldn't work because we busted, you know, and so, uh, 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.079 I didn't think nothing was going to happen. I didn't honestly, 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.960 you know. I flew home. Doc calls me about three 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.600 days later. He says, you gotta come back, you gotta 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.120 come back. He dug it. He dug it, and I go, 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.839 who dug it? And he goes Bill Graham. He wants 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.200 to sign us. Well, you know, we didn't know. I said, 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.839 hock the organ and send me a ticket. I had 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.760 this little box organ, you know, I didn't like using it. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.200 He hocked it, sent me an airplane ticket. And then 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.200 we went to the loading zones manager who really liked us, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.760 but never thought in a million years we would get 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.320 you know, his his singer Linda Tillery was trying to 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.040 get signed to her bands. We linded Divine and uh. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.560 We went to Ron Barnett. We said, you know, we 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.520 don't know what to do. Man. He gave us his country. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.679 We had the contract, and he says, you know, he's 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.920 kind of stunned. And so he comes out to visit 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.120 with the band and he says, how many people are 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.400 in the band at that point there was nine? Okay, 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.120 so okay, go back to Barnett. So he comes out. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.600 He says, you know, if I manage you, something needs 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.560 to be understood. Whatever I tell you to do, you 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.600 have to do it. And we all go, You're gonna 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.000 manage us, like we couldn't believe it, you know. And 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.120 uh and he says, first of all, this record deal, 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.319 he goes, it's it's not a very good record deal, 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.800 but you have no bargaining power whatsoever, and you're lucky 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.760 to have it. I can't even believe that he's offered 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.199 it to you. He said, there are a few changes 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.160 I'm gonna shoot for, and he got about three of them. 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.400 You know. Was there a lawyer involved? I don't think 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.160 there was. Actually think he went to Bill because he 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.640 knew Bill because he dealt with the loadings, right, and 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.000 he just said, look, you know, these guys are just kids, 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.400 but this right here, you know, and uh and he 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.120 got that this this stuff changed and then uh what 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.600 happened is, you know, David Rubinson then started dealing with 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.200 us because he was the producer, right, Okay, I hear 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:33.320 from Rubenson all the time, and he's in France, right right, Yeah, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.080 and he's always a big health expert because he had 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.480 a heart attack whatever. But I'll let him tell his 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:44.400 own story. But he was known for being difficult and autocratic. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.960 Was that your experience, Yes, it was, but you know, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.440 I'll say this. You know he uh, he had the 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.520 foresight to want to sign a young unknown band. He 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.600 saw the raw talent and he's the one. He he 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.840 didn't like my brother the way he played drums, and 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.280 he said, we're gonna bring in a studio drummer. We 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.080 were like, you know what, you know, we're a band. 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.160 What are you talking about? You know, it almost broke 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.120 up the band, actually, you know, yeah, I know that's 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:10.520 a big thing. You got a member of a band. 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.160 He frequently breaks up the band. Yeah. Yeah. So but 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.520 you know, my brother at the last minute decided he 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.120 was going to go back to Detroit and view with 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:19.800 my parents and he said, I want you to stay 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:21.400 at and what I don't I don't think the band 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.280 should lose the contract because I was gonna take my 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.840 brother and just start over. And uh, and so I 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:31.000 stayed and then um, I had seen David Garibaldi, our 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.960 drummer today. He was filling in for the opening for 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:39.520 the Befour Hours band and uh I said this, this 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.920 is the drummer for us, and was he good enough 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.600 for Rubenson and Rubens and still used the studio. Soon 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.640 as soon as David Garibaldi came into Man Plus, I 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.600 brought this guy, Willie Fulton, the stinging guitar player that 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.320 played like Steve Cropper even more so it's just great 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.720 and so there was never no more discussion about changing nobody. Okay, 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.160 so you make that record, how long does it take? Okay, 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.640 you play in October? When is the deal signed? When 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.720 do you go in the studio? Are we signed? You know, 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.160 within a probably within a month after that, you know, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.320 and uh and then they called us. It was actually interesting. 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.840 It was the day that the Stones played Altamont. We 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.840 lived near Altimont, you know, and so we were all 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.080 we were just about to walk out the door to 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:27.840 go to Altamont and we get this phone call from uh. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.040 We used to call h Mutton, Jeff. They were like Rubens, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.400 and they go, we want you in the studio at 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.720 one o'clock, you know, going over to Pacific Recording at 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.960 San Mateo and We're like, what's happening. We want to 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.000 see how you record? And it took us in and 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.120 uh and we did. You know, we recorded a few songs. 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.240 My brother was still in the band. It was that's 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.520 what made him decide. Yeah, you know, he didn't want 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.480 my brother in the band or the guitar player, you know. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.600 And uh, but then you know, once we got David 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.080 Garibaldi and plus we're way you're in the studio, then 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.200 you sure what happened at Altamont? What goes through your head? Oh? Yeah, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.760 we got home that day and we're like, man, you know, 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.720 the the guy got murdered and I was like riot 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.320 and the Hells Angels went crazy. And you know, years 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.080 later we knew the girl that was with the guy 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:20.960 that got murdered. Oh yeah, yeah, Judy Nelson, never forget it. Wow, 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.880 that's quite a connection. So you'd go in the studio 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.520 that day, David's unhappy with a couple of players. What 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.879 happens next, Well, we get David Garibaldi and Willie Fulton 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.000 and we're getting hot in the Bay Area. I mean, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:38.320 so now you can work again. Well, yeah, what what 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:42.840 happened is that Bill Graham had this agency also, so 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:44.840 he not only signed us to the record deal, he 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.639 signed us to songwriting deal, publishing deal, booking agent, and management. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.080 And he had an agency, the Millard Agent, and Terry 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.239 Persons and Joe Bailey were there, and so they call up. 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.800 You know, first of all, we informed them that we 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.120 can no longer play these clubs, so you know, they 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.040 can't book us, and none of the high school's watered 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.080 us because they had no idea who we were. We 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.800 hadn't played so long. And so he calls up and 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.280 he says, uh, what do you think about going to 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.720 Mexico City for fourteen days? And then we go are 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.840 you kidding? You know? And you'll play ten days and 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.320 you'll be off four We go great, you know, and uh, 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.840 they were trying to bring Santana down there, and they 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.960 had banned concerts for the last two years because of 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.879 a riot that happened when The Dead played there. But 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.639 they wanted to bring Santana down there, and so they 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.879 were like testing the waters with some fillmore groups. So 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.560 they sent us in this band named Kimberly, and we 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.359 went down there. We played four days and there was 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.440 like federalities surrounding the joint, like every night, so nobody 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.960 came in. We're playing like three people, you know, and 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.600 after four days the thing shut down. There was this 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.960 guy Mario was the promoter, and he was poling up 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:01.199 with uh, Jim Morrison. He was down there pardon with 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.520 this guy Maso. And so after four days he says, 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.959 that's it, it's not gonna work. So we had like 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.440 ten days off. Jim Morrison's down there and think they're 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.880 taking us to like press parties that we're jamming with 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.159 this band called the Love Army, and you know, it 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.800 was a very memorable time. I remember I got up 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.240 one morning, I walked out of the hotel sweets and paradoor. 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.040 I look up and Jim Morrison is hanging over the 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.960 balcony and he's throwing up. And we would see him 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.600 and like, you know, nine thirty in the morning at breakfast, 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.760 and he'd be so nice and so together, you know, 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.239 but he'd already be hitting the screw divers, you know. 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.480 And then at night we go sit in with the 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.240 Love Army and he said, you know, let's play some 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.159 good old American rock and roll, you know, and he 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.520 swing his microphone and you know, I remember he caught 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.080 the symbol stand and pulled it over and acted over. 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.560 It was really a scene, you know, but very memorable time. 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.000 That was our first tour ever. Okay, then you get back, 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.159 what's up with working and recording? Well, we make the 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.560 record and it's a it's a regional hit. Okay, you 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.280 make you make the record. How long does they take 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.520 you to make the record? Two weeks? Okay? Why is 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.680 the first album on Atlantic and the subsequent albums on 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.960 Warner Brothers. Because after we made the record, we got 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.080 pretty hot in the Bay Area. So then they send 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.080 this out on tour and we get out there and 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.439 like all bands, you know, we're all disappointed because we 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.520 go and there's no records nowhere, and Bill grahams we 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.120 know this now. We didn't know it then, but Bill 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.040 Graham's calling on me and heard again and say, you know, 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.280 what's going on? There's no records in the stores, and 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.040 you know, but we come back all discouraged. And this 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.280 is when we had we had fired the first singer 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.919 and we had brought in Rick Stevens and he's, you know, 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:47.040 now he's in the band officially. A lot of drugs 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.119 are going on, and he's saying, you know, I know 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.680 a guy up there, and you know he fought Bill 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.119 Graham and Da Dada and he managed Slide and he 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.640 managed Buddy Miles and blah blah blah, and like fools 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.280 we went and we could front of Bill and a 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:03.639 really really stupid way. Okay, just with that guy or 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:08.720 just by yourself that who was that guy, Louis Gordon. Yeah, 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.200 he went to jail. Shortly after that, they confronted Bill. 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.080 Out of that place. Bill. Bill wanted to actually fight 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.879 Rick Stevens in the gutter. He goes right now in 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.960 the gutter. Kieva Christo was Bill's lawyer. He had his 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.920 arms round No Bill, no, you know, we walked out. 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:26.720 I remember we got around the corner was right across 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:28.800 from the film or West. We're around the corner from 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.360 the film or West. I said, I looked at those 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.879 guys that go, we made a huge mistake today, huge 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:36.600 And let's go up to Louise House around a lot 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:41.040 of coke and drinking and chicks. And but then um 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.320 me and Doc we started to go see Bill on 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.439 Mondays when we were in town. Well, we just to 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.159 be clear, how did it at the meeting end? Not good? 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.680 A lot of cursing and yelling. You know that's your problem, 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.359 you know that kind of stuff. Okay, but he didn't 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:00.360 say I'm done. He no, he didn't have to say 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.919 I'm done. He had our contract, he owned us. We 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:06.480 didn't know this at the time, you know, but eventually 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.399 Doc and I would go see him on Mondays and 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:10.800 we'd go in and we say, you know, Bill, you know, 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:13.480 we're so sorry with the way we handle this thing, 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.760 and we just we really do to make another record 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.200 and the band's bigger than ever, we're doing better than ever. 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.719 We gotta make a record, and you got the record 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.360 contract and he's and he'd start talking real soft. He say, 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.360 you know, guys, is I know you made a mistake. 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.080 I understand you know you're young. Blah blah blah. He goes, 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.760 and you know I have this contract on you. He goes, 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.720 you know what I managed Santana. I didn't have a 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:39.960 contract on him. And he standing up, goes and he 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:44.000 screwed me, you know, And he started yelling at us 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.440 and pointing us finger and we'd be in the chair 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.440 and he had an office that had glass all around it, 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:52.959 and so there's like thirteen secretaries out there watching us, 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:54.960 you know, and we did this like you know, four 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:57.120 or five six times. You go in and the girls 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.080 will see us walking in and they got good luck 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.560 that you know. So okay, Santana screwed him. So what 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:07.000 did he say? He was gonna do nothing. Nothing, Nothing 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:09.879 got resolved. And so finally what happened is that guy, 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.879 that cocaine dealer manager went to jail, and we got 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.400 Ron Burnett back. We went to Ron, told him what happened. 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:18.880 He went to Bill and he goes, all right, Bill, 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:21.080 what do you want? You know? And Bill just screamed 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.360 for about forty minutes and then he goes, I want 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.479 forty dollars and two points, you know. And Ron went 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.840 to Warners. Everybody was going to Warners and they wanted 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.840 us bad. And Warners paid that part to Bill. Okay, 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:34.439 how long did he pay for? How many albums did 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.080 you get two points on in the deal? The record deal? 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:42.200 So for the whole deal he got two points? Okay. 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:44.760 So who was the person at Warner Brothers who was interested? 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:49.000 Who did you deal with? Well, you know, Joe Smith, 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:52.119 Mo Austin. Uh, there wasn't a specific person. I mean 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.480 Joe who unfortunately recently passed. He tells a story about 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:57.600 going up and meeting the Grateful Dead. Was there anybody 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.960 who came up to see you? Well? Uh, we got 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:02.800 to know all of them shortly after that. Once they 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:04.719 signed this, we did bumps that he was. They had 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:08.320 a press party out at Mickey Heart's Ranch. Uh, and 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:10.679 we were out there, and you know, Joe Smith was there, 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.680 and most was there. Carl Um. Oh, god, I can 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:15.840 see him. What's his last name? But it will come 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:18.720 to me, Yeah, big guy. And plus we all went 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.120 on tour with those guys. They took this tour out 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.600 to Europe called the Warner Brothers Music Show with six bands, 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.560 and we were one of the bands. Little Feet, Graham, 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:34.320 Central Station, the Doobie Brothers, Montrose, and a group called Bonnaroo. 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:38.280 That would be quite a tour, Okay, So what was 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:43.160 it like beyond that tour? Oh, it was a decadent tour. Yeah, 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:45.760 it was a lot of fun. We got really close 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.080 with Little Feet because we had already done one of 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.960 their records. We did this song called Spanish Moon, and 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:52.760 so we used to sit in with them and do 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:54.880 the horn parts and we got real close with that. Okay. 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.520 That begs a question, what's your take on Lowell? George 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:02.359 phenomenal can say? Really, I mean, you know, I just 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:06.159 he knew how not to overplay. There's a better way 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:08.240 to say that. But you know, there's certain records. We 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:09.760 just put a little taste guitar and he had the 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:18.040 sweetest voiced Yeah, unbelievable. Okay, So Bump City. I heard 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:22.000 bump City because that was in the era when uh 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.720 they put out the two first for two dollars, and 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.000 it was on one of them. That's how I discovered 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:31.960 bump City, Bump Bump bump. Okay, So let's go back 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.679 a chapter. They're nine guys in the band. Well by 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:40.320 then it was eleven. Okay, you can't make any money? Yeah, 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:41.960 Well that's why I tell the kids today. They say, 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:43.760 you know, any advice, I go, yeah, I start a trio. 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:49.200 I mean, how are you staying alive with eleven people 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.439 in the band. Well, it's a mood point because whatever 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:55.960 money we were making, we're wasting it. You know, we're nuts, 0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:58.840 completely crazy. For the first twenty years, we made every 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.400 mistake known to men. Okay, other than the lead singers, 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:07.840 how many other musicians went in and out? Or was 0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:10.840 it generally steady. I can't even cut the singers. I'm 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:12.520 not going to cut all those musicians. What I'm trying 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:16.240 to say is in your hey in that Warner Brothers heyday, Okay, 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:20.639 was the band relatively stable? Well, I mean we were staying. 0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:23.119 You know, it was always like, you know, Doc and 0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:25.840 me and Rocco the bass player. Rocco has been with 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:28.639 me since I was fourteen, and he was all the 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:31.000 way up until last year. You know what fired him? 0:26:31.040 --> 0:26:33.240 I fired him for eight years in the early eighties 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.399 for her own addiction, but brought him back. I mean 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:40.000 that begs a question on the contract. Whose names were 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:42.600 on the contract? Everybody or just the three of you 0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:46.320 or everybody? Everybody? Yes, okay, so somebody leaves, you have 0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:48.199 to have a whole legal thing with getting him out 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.080 of the band. Yeah, it wasn't a big deal, you know, 0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:53.840 they just we just informed the record company and things 0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:58.160 went on. You know. Okay, did you ever get any royalties? Yeah? 0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:01.720 I still get Okay, Okay, how do you split up 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:05.280 the royalties? Oh? I don't split them up. Well, you know, 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:06.840 over the years we went and we said you got 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:08.760 to send it to him direct, you know. Okay, but 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:12.080 if they play it on the record, everybody who everybody 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:14.760 was in the band at that time still gets a piece, 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.080 assuming there is a piece. Yeah, I mean there's only 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:19.119 there's only a piece on the Warners records. You know, 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:20.919 we went to CBS. They give us a ton of 0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:24.800 money over there. We never recouped there, you know, so 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:26.960 there's not a bunch of royalties coming in to be 0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:29.520 split up. You know. Well, it's just kind of funny. 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:32.119 It's you know, very easy going as opposed to you know, 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:35.960 so many cutthroats stories. I mean, we've got our cutthroat stories. 0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:37.840 I guess I don't think of one off the top 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.840 of my head. But okay, so Bump City hits and 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:45.040 I certainly remember. I guess it was seventy five. You know, 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:47.880 there's only so much oil in the ground. Yeah. Man, 0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:50.600 that's one of my favorites. Okay, tell me the story 0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:55.000 of how that came together. Well to Doc. Doc is 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:57.080 the quirky one, you know, and so we were by 0:27:57.119 --> 0:27:59.000 then we had written a lot of songs, and he 0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:01.119 comes to me. It was during the time in the 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.679 Bay Area was one of the first oil spills, and 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:08.040 so they had this emergency thing all over the news 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:10.000 people are. You know, they're showing all these films with 0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.320 people washing seagulls because they're covered with oil, you know, 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.680 they're dying and uh, and we were watching it and 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:18.520 Doc says to me, you know, we should write a 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:21.119 song called only so Much Oil in the Ground. And 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:24.199 I go, what's that? What do you mean? You know? 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:26.520 And he was, you know, like, what are we gonna 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:28.520 do when we run out oil? So what happened? And 0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:30.320 then he tells me the story that when he was 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:32.600 a kid. I guess he was acting out and they 0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:34.600 sent him to the principal's office and he goes in 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:37.960 there and the guy says, Stephen, is there anything troubling you? 0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:41.200 And Doc waits a minute and then he goes, uh, yeah, 0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:44.600 what's that, Stephen? And he says, what are we gonna 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.280 do when we run out of oil? I went to 0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:52.800 high school. Principal said, go back to class. Yeah, you know. 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:55.440 But so we wrote that song. But I remember Raven 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.080 to my manager Brown Barnette at the time. I said, man, 0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:00.760 this is the best song we ever did. It's hippist lyric, 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:05.479 the hippist rhythm section, it's the classiest horn section, the 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:08.800 baddest organ soul, the baddest tenor sol the vocals off 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:10.800 the chart. I just I thought it was the best 0:29:10.840 --> 0:29:14.760 record we ever made, you know, and did nothing. Well 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:19.560 it's interesting because yes it did nothing on the charts, 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:21.680 but I could never get over it. I can tell 0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:24.800 you where I was playing it and you know, being 0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:26.920 into it because it was funny. I didn't think you 0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:28.320 said it was true, but it was also kind of 0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:32.720 funny the way the lyric was, Well, what's the story 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:36.200 with bump City? How did that come together? Well? Uh, 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:39.320 there used to be a song called the Bump and 0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:41.600 uh and you know, as I say, when we played, 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:44.760 the dance floor was always full, so people will be 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:47.000 out there bumping, you know. And so we had this phrase. 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:48.640 You know, it's like he did you go to the club? 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:50.440 That's that man? It was bump city. You know. It 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:53.960 was just a phrase that we used. And then we thought, well, 0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:56.080 I mean that that's pretty much all we did. We 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.280 hung out at the nightclub, you know, not only playing, 0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.040 but even on off nights. You know, we'd sleep in 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.080 really late because we've been partying all night, and then 0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:04.360 we get up and go eat, and then we go 0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:06.440 down to the nightclub and hang out with all our friends, 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:09.760 and so we thought we should write a song and 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.800 call it down to the nightclub and then you know, 0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:15.480 well this nightclub will be called Bump City, you know, 0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:17.640 and it's a phrase like bump de bump de bump. 0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:21.800 That's what we do. Okay. So, how many albums on 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:27.160 Warner Brothers six six and how does that ten year 0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:30.200 go from your viewpoint? I'm not sure what you mean 0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:33.040 by that. I mean, was it all a good experience 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:36.440 with Warner Brothers? Yes, excellent experience. They were great, they 0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:38.320 loved us. We wanted to resign, and they gave us 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:40.520 a good offer. But this is when if you read 0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:44.040 that book Hitman, remember like they talked about how yet 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:46.440 Nikoff would just he would just sign X just to 0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:49.360 piss off Joe Smith. Yeah, it was James Taylor went 0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.680 to you know. So they gave us so much money 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:55.800 we couldn't say no, you know, and so we we 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.120 take the money and we get signed. And then they 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:00.120 got no clue because they never wanted us to the 0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:02.680 first place, and they had no clue what to do us. 0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:05.040 They looked at us as a problem. You're you're already 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.040 lost if you look at something that way, you know, 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:10.800 and so there we gave us all this money, but 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:14.040 you know it was not a good relationship, and pretty 0:31:14.040 --> 0:31:17.640 sure it just deteriorated. Okay, how demoral is it was? 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:21.360 It was difficult, you know, I know that drugs had 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:22.680 a lot to do with it for us. You know, 0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:25.280 it wasn't like it's all their fault, man, you know, 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:28.400 we we we dug our own grave, you know, but 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:32.120 we were still making great music and uh, you know, 0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:34.520 they just weren't the company for us. What can I say? Okay, 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:39.880 how many records were the CBS we did? Uh three? 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:42.880 It was a sixth album deal, but we only did three. 0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:46.480 We did uh another stopping us now and we came 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:56.760 to play and back to Opland. Okay, but then then 0:31:57.080 --> 0:31:59.360 the dal Ns that kind of leaves you kind of know. 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:02.680 We asked them to let us out. That's what happened. 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.920 And and I had been talking to Ted Templement over 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.000 Warner Brothers, and Ted was you know, we knew him 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:12.040 and he loved Garibaldi. We had gotten Garibaldi back in 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:15.560 the band. Garibaldi left the band four times always because 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:19.280 we were just two nuts. Couldn't take watching us kill ourselves, 0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:21.160 you know, So but he had come back because he 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:24.280 couldn't stand being away either, so he had come back. 0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:26.240 And we're playing better than ever, you know. So I 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:29.040 go to see Ted Templement, you know, and I say, man, 0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:31.560 you know, the band is like better than ever and 0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:34.520 we're stuck over there and you know, and he says, 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:36.840 you get out of that deal and I will sign you. 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:40.360 And at the time, Jeff Wald was my manager. Jeff 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:46.000 Well Helen Ready's, uh, very intense guy. I like Jeff Wald. 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:49.400 We got along well. And uh, he had a big meeting. 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:52.000 In a matter of fact, the meeting was the day 0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:56.120 that they signed Chicago. We signed them, and the meeting 0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:57.960 was are they going to keep us? So let us 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:00.400 go what are they gonna do? You know? And we 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:02.640 went in there and remember Jeff Wald, he said, uh, 0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:04.640 when you go in this meeting, is yet Nikos is 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:07.200 gonna be there, Lunvall is gonna be there. He goes, 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:09.360 but don't pay no attention to him. He was the 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.880 only thing that matters is this guy named Jack Craig. Oh, 0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:13.840 and he says he's got a n a hole about 0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:17.160 this big and he goes, uh, he goes, if he 0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:19.440 if he wants you you're gonna stay, and if you don't, 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:21.720 you're not. He goes, and and I remember it was 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:24.600 Bruce Lnvall that I really appealed to because he he 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:27.680 was a solid guy. And we're at the table and 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.480 they had already made the decision to resign Chicago. I 0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:33.160 remember Robert Lamb came out and offered me a bunch 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:35.800 of blow and it's like party, you know. Then I 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.560 go in and I'm sitting there with all these executives 0:33:38.560 --> 0:33:42.400 and my manager at Jeff Walden and Uh. I looked 0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:45.280 down at Bruce lonvill and I go, if you guys 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:48.360 are gonna let us record, have the decency to let 0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:50.240 us go. And I remember he looked at me. He 0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:51.960 was merely, I need to tell you something. He goes, 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:55.240 No matter what decision we make today, it has nothing 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:57.440 to do with your music. You got a great band, 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.440 and we're gonna talk about this and get back to you. 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:03.320 And they released us, and so we went right to Warners, 0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:06.600 and Warners gave us a bunch of money and ten 0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:08.360 Temple and said he would sign us. But then he 0:34:08.400 --> 0:34:12.160 started having problems. You know, he was messing around with 0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:15.200 Nicolette Larson and he had just done minute by minute 0:34:15.200 --> 0:34:17.600 and all those big Dooms records, and he went on 0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:20.840 the road with the Doobies. He's playing because Nicolette was 0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:24.680 singing background and she was opening the show. And he's 0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:27.040 out there and he's doing a lot of drugs and 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:29.560 stuff and he won't return my calls, and so we're 0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:32.200 just like, you know, we're stuck. We got signed, got 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:34.440 all this money, but we're not making a record. So 0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:36.880 I went to the opening, So but you did get resigned, 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:41.040 got resigned? Yeah, great deal. And I go to the 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:44.120 okan Hounitorium and he's on stage with the Dobie Brothers 0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:46.000 and when he comes down, I'm waiting at the bottom 0:34:46.040 --> 0:34:47.959 of the stairs and I tell him, I go, ted, 0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:51.000 we have to record. He was, oh, oh, hey man, 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:53.399 good to see you. Listen, he goes, I'm not doing 0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:55.600 so good. You know, I got problems with my liver. 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:57.680 I got a hold of my nose. You know, I 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:00.680 got stuff going on in us. But because I think 0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.240 you should produce the record, and I go, that's fine. 0:35:03.280 --> 0:35:05.520 I go, but we gotta make the record, you know. 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:07.440 And he goes, I'm gonna talk to them Monday and 0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:09.680 I'll get back to you. He goes to Warners to 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:13.000 the Heads Up you know, Mo and car Joe and 0:35:13.000 --> 0:35:15.520 all them, and he says, uh, you know, Tower Parker 0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:18.040 needs to make their record and but I can't do it. 0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:20.279 I'm gonna have to go to treatment. I got liverything. 0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:24.000 And they all told him we only signed them because 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:28.239 you wanted them, and they released us. Yeah, so in 0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:32.160 the eyes of the industry, oh yeah, we look like 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:36.840 horror show, you know. And that's sort of the final 0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:41.319 straw that made the eighties come into existence, funny way 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:44.399 of putting it. So, how did you make it through 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:49.000 the eighties? Well, eventually, uh, you know, CBS was trying 0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:51.600 to get us to conform him to the disco thing happen, 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:53.640 you know that. And you know, we tried to do 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:55.399 what they wanted because they're giving us all this money, 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:57.960 you know, But we always sounded like Tower Power no 0:35:58.000 --> 0:35:59.600 matter what we did. They're going like, if you could 0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:01.839 sound like these other bands, you know, And we used 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:04.400 to think of ourselves like this is like we're cursed. 0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:06.560 Why can't we sound like these bands that are on 0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:09.600 the radio? You know? After we got lost the deal 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:11.520 with Warners and everything and nothing was happening. I told 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:13.720 the guys, let's just make the music like we always 0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:16.239 did because we could always play live. We always had 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.520 a following, you know, and so we just went back 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:20.879 to making our original songs and doing them the way 0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:23.359 we do them, and things gradually started to get better. 0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:26.640 And then Paul Shaffer really dug us. We started doing 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:29.080 guest shots with the horn section, and even you know, 0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:31.080 I went on, I sang a song and this is 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:35.279 a Letterman when he's on Ave on NBC, and we were. 0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:37.720 We were on Letterman like sixteen times in the eighties, 0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:40.239 you know. And then right about that time, we met 0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:44.319 Huey Lewis in the News and Huey Lewis was a 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:47.080 fan we had. We had played for Bill Graham at 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:49.920 the Old Waldorf and we had played all this new 0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:52.200 material that we had and he came backstage and he 0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:55.440 was gushing all over us, you know, and wow, where'd 0:36:55.440 --> 0:36:58.279 you get those songs? And uh, and he goes, my 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:00.440 name is Huey Man. I'm a huge fan. And I 0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:03.239 had heard of Huey Lewis and the News and I 0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:06.360 thought out all these weird bands, Devo and the Knack 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:10.000 and the Motels and the Cars. I thought, that's a 0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:12.800 cool name. And when he says my name is Huey Lewis, 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:15.640 I go, oh, you got that band the News. He goes, yeah, 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:19.000 we love you guys, you know. And so then like 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:23.000 a week later, we're doing a session at CBS, which 0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:27.040 was right by Rubinson's office and uh, he comes over. 0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:28.919 He says, we're across the hall. We have these two 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.640 songs we think would be perfect for your horns, and 0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:33.719 we did, uh, I hope you'll love me like you 0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:36.120 say you do and working for a living, and when 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.600 I had not heard them up to that point, but 0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:40.359 I go and hope you love me like you say 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:41.799 you do. I don't know if you ever heard that song. 0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:45.359 It's like it's like a salmon dave to right. It's 0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:47.839 so full, you know, And I was like, whoa, look 0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:50.960 at these guys. You know. So we immediately hit it off, 0:37:51.040 --> 0:37:53.799 and then they started to blow up a bit and 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:55.520 we would go sitting with them. They come to l A, 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.080 we go sit in different places, we'd sit in. They 0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.120 loved it, you know. But when they put out the 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:04.719 Sports A sports yeah huge, you know, And he comes 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:06.920 to me and he says, uh, you know, would you 0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:10.000 go on tour with us the Horns. I said, I 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:12.279 got the band, you know, I can't just leave them. 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.279 And he said, he said, well, you know, it just 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:16.719 really will make it really worth your money, and blah 0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:18.759 blah blah. And I said, I'll tell you what if 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.880 you let me bring the band out to do midnight 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:24.520 shows after your concert and you announced it at the 0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:27.680 concert and say that your band is coming to sit 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:30.160 in with us and and you know, and mention us 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:33.200 in all the interviews, I'll do it. And he has 0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:35.960 no problem. Yeah, and he did. He was a man 0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:39.520 of his word. Okay, so you play the gig and 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.040 you would ever city. This was when they were at 0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:45.440 the height of their success. And so you get a 0:38:45.520 --> 0:38:49.279 local club where, yeah, we'll be playing Jones Beach and 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:52.680 we do a midnight show at the bottom line. And 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:54.680 he had announced it, you know, at the concert to 0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:57.279 eighteen thousand people and say we're going to go sitting 0:38:57.360 --> 0:38:59.839 with our party to night the place to be seen 0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:03.320 right right right right. We played Connecticut, you know, we 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:06.279 do the Agora, you know, and all these people would 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:08.640 be there, you know pretty soon. It's like things are 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:12.400 getting better, you know. And then okay, so continue the story. Well, 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:14.719 then we couldn't get a record deal though, you know, 0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:17.000 because they still looked at us like, you know, like 0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.040 their music will never be popular again, and these these 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:22.680 guys are over, and that's what the media was saying, 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:27.200 you know. And uh, finally there was this guy. His 0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:31.200 name's Michael Kaplan, really cool guy. Yeah, he's from Connecticut. 0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:34.520 He's had a lot of other people now yeah, and 0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:36.480 he was at uh well, he used to come to 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:39.239 my gigs. He used to go, I'm your biggest fan, 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:41.440 and I'm gonna be in the record business, you know. 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:43.480 I mean, I've known this guy for years to show 0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:46.279 up and uh pretty soon, man, you know, he's like 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:48.960 I'm in the mail room at you know. And then 0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:51.160 he got a gig and he was like a VP 0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:54.160 of A and R Epic and we were at our 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:57.239 wits end. I went time manager at Michelle's Aaron I said, 0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:58.960 I want you to call this guy and tell him, 0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:00.719 you know, if you don't do something, his favorite band 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:03.480 is gonna be gone. And she called him up and 0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:06.800 he had just gotten sober. He had about two and 0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:09.600 a half years, I think, and I had just gotten 0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:12.920 sober and Doc had just gotten sober. And he found 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:15.640 that out and He called me up and he goes, uh, hey, 0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:18.960 so here we're in the same club, you know, yeah, 0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:23.359 And he goes, uh, you guys got any songs? I go, yeah, 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:25.359 we always have songs. He goes, yeah, can you give 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:27.719 me something? I'm going on vacation. I go yeah, And 0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:30.080 I sent him a cassette and he went down on 0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:31.880 the Virgin Islands. He came because you know what, I 0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:34.680 like this. He goes, But I can't sign you, dude. 0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:37.160 I can sign you anytime I want, but I can't 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:38.960 do it unless I know I got the whole company 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:41.600 behind it. He goes, so, I want you to take 0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:44.400 a gig for seven nights in Manhattan. So we did 0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:47.480 the bottom line seven nights, two shows a night. And 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:51.200 he sent out a memo throughout the record company. Ten 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:54.560 reasons why he should never sign a band like Tower 0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:57.239 of Power. You know, there are a bunch of dinosaurs, 0:40:57.320 --> 0:40:59.560 there are a bunch of drug addicts, They're too old, 0:41:00.040 --> 0:41:02.200 their style of music will never be popular again. Ten 0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:05.640 reasons right. He sends this out and the next day 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:08.520 sends out another one, and he rebuts all those reasons, 0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:11.520 and then he starts bringing east. He starts bringing people 0:41:11.560 --> 0:41:14.120 down in fours and fives every night, four or five 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:17.040 people from the company. He's just like rallying the company. 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:18.759 And then he calls me on Sunday and he says, 0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:21.560 get the guys together for lunch. We're going out for 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:24.800 a big celebration. You what's that? He goes, I'm signing 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:28.000 you guys the seven album deal. And he signed this, 0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:30.840 God bless him. And then what happened. What we did 0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:32.560 a first record. You know, we hadn't done a record 0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:34.600 in years. We did Monster on the Leash for him 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:37.920 and sold well, and you know, things are started to 0:41:38.000 --> 0:41:41.240 go good and continue to go better and better. Okay, 0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:45.399 so let's go back to the beginning. You originally from Detroit. Yeah, 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.880 until I was eleven. Okay, you're in Detroit. We're in 0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:50.880 Detroit because Detroit has the rich suburbs, the poor suburbs, 0:41:50.920 --> 0:41:53.760 the inner city. Yeah, I was not in the rich suburbs. 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:57.840 Where were you My dad? You know, Uh, it was 0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:01.759 a bartender and I was on Evergreen Road between Joy 0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:04.520 Road and West Chicago in the city, you know, not 0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:06.640 in When I was a little kid, we lived in 0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:10.000 the ghetto, in the projects, and uh moved to fourteen 0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:12.799 Street right down from what was the twenty Grand Club 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:16.600 and uh, and then we were out there on Evergreen, 0:42:16.719 --> 0:42:20.280 but it was just a lower middle class. Your father, 0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:24.600 where did he come from? He's born in Laredo, Texas, 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:26.239 but he had moved to Detroit. You know a lot 0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:29.840 of Mexican people moved to Detroit during the war. What 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:34.840 was the motivation jobs? Yeah, and so you know, culinary 0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:40.280 industry was big Mexican guys coming up there being bus boys, waiters, bartenders. 0:42:40.400 --> 0:42:43.080 He became a bartender. It's a lot of nightlife in 0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:45.480 my family. Yeah, I can hear that. What about your mother? 0:42:46.760 --> 0:42:50.400 My mother was Greek. He met her in Detroit, you know, 0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:55.399 and uh, she was a very flamboyant personality. They both 0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:58.319 had a great sensitive humor. They both loved music. There 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:01.239 weren't musicians, but I loved music. My mother could play 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:03.359 a little piano and sing. But you know that. Did 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:07.680 they stay together? No, they they stayed together a long time. 0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:10.880 They divorced in the early nineties. Okay, how old were there? 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:14.560 How were you when they divorced? I was forty three. 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.719 What do you think about them getting divorced at that age? Well, 0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:19.400 I was getting a divorce at the same time. So 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:22.520 it was kind of like we could sympathize with each other. 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.439 You know, it's always funny when people are together that long. 0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:28.359 Did they every each of them find somebody new? They 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:30.719 both did. Yeah, my dad found a couple of new 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:37.080 my my mother found a wonderful Yugoslavian man, and uh, Evan, 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:40.400 we loved him. We loved him. And then uh, she 0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:42.959 died in the mid two thousand's and he died about 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:46.080 seven years later. Okay, so you're growing up in Detroit. 0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:50.160 What year were you were born? Again? Okay, so are 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:55.080 you know Detroit? Obviously the home of Motown was there? 0:43:55.120 --> 0:43:57.440 That was like, okay, were listening to the radio up 0:43:57.480 --> 0:43:59.800 to the age of level Yeah, yeah, no, my my parents, 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.600 you know, the high Fi came out whenever the kid. 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.680 My parents played music all the time, The Platters, Bill 0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:10.320 Dog At, Elvis Presley, the Ink Spots, Mills Brothers. You know, 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:13.680 they loved music. They're always playing records, Mario Lanza and 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:17.480 k Starred. You know, we had lots of albums and 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:21.080 they were always playing. Okay, and then, uh, at what 0:44:21.280 --> 0:44:24.400 point do you pick up an instrument? Well, what happens 0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:26.719 is we moved to the Bay Area. Okay, a little bit, 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:29.719 a little why my dad lost his job, and he 0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:31.640 figured he could be broke over there just as well 0:44:31.640 --> 0:44:34.960 as in Detroit. You know, anybody in the baynew one guy, 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:36.880 the guy that mentored him as a bar tender. We 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:40.359 called him Uncle Jack McCarthy. And Jack was always telling 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:43.120 my dad, who was also Jack, you know, Jack, you 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:44.680 need to come out to the Bay Area, man, this 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:46.960 is where it's happening. So he took us all out 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:50.560 to the Bay Area, and Uh, I missed my friends. 0:44:50.800 --> 0:44:52.480 I'm a little kid. I missed my friends. So my 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:55.400 friend was the radio. I'm listening to k w B 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:57.400 and k f R C and k A A and 0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:00.040 Rest of the Moose, Syracuse and Tom downa Hue and 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:04.160 all that stuff. And uh, I loved listening to songs, 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.360 you know. And that's when you know stuff by you know, 0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:10.000 all the all those Goffin and King songs. You know 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:14.400 the Orleans and you know the Drifters, and you know 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:17.759 all that. I loved it and write about. Then I 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:20.800 started playing motown music and I'm missing my friends, you know, 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:24.040 And then uh, you know, we become teenagers. I'm fourteen, 0:45:25.160 --> 0:45:30.480 and uh, we're going to the pool at summertime Fremont, California. 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:32.960 We lived in San Francisco for three months and then 0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:36.040 my parents bought a house in the suburbs by this house. 0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:39.040 Did your mother work outside the home? Yeah, she would, 0:45:39.040 --> 0:45:42.920 you know, waitress, she would be a medical assistant, dental assistant. 0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:46.960 You know. My mom was always like, there was never 0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:49.680 enough money for mom. You know, it was, uh, no matter. 0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:52.200 We had everything we could ever want it, but she 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:55.080 was always unhappy about that. And well what she was 0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:58.080 bad at your father didn't make a better living. I guess, 0:45:58.160 --> 0:45:59.640 you know what I guess. The point I'm trying to 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.759 make is that they always ran away from their finances. 0:46:02.840 --> 0:46:05.400 So that's what they did. When they left Detroit, they 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:08.000 had bills. You know, back then you could leave right 0:46:08.120 --> 0:46:11.680 right was the computerized. So they just moved over there 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:13.560 and all those bills went away. And then you know, 0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:16.120 we established a life in the Bay Area and they 0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:18.800 got really badly in debt and they moved back to Detroit. 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:22.520 You know that was like d m oh. You know 0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:26.359 I didn't know this as a kid, an at How 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.920 how long did they stay in the Bay Area before 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:32.200 they went And we got there in sixty two and 0:46:32.800 --> 0:46:37.759 they left in uh late and one day, you know, 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.319 and by now I got the band right, And one 0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:42.400 day my mother says, you know, we're moving to Detroit. 0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:47.600 What we're moving to Detroit? You know, she's upset because 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:50.680 the bills and everything, you know, And I go, what 0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:52.800 do you mean we're moving to I had the band, 0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:55.960 and my dad knew how important the band was to me, 0:46:56.680 --> 0:46:59.520 and he says, he comes to me and he says, uh, 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:01.719 I'm gonna let you and your brother stay out here, 0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:04.080 and I'm gonna give you one year because if you 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:06.560 don't make it within one year, you have to come 0:47:06.600 --> 0:47:08.200 back to try and be with me and your mother. 0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:11.880 And that was the deal. We were. You still in 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:17.120 high school. I just graduated. Okay, So back to you're 0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:20.439 in the Bay Area, you're in Fremont. At what point 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.600 do you start playing an instrument? Like I said, I'm 0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:26.240 fourteen years old and we're gonna go to the swimming 0:47:26.239 --> 0:47:28.960 bool at the local high school and we have this 0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:31.960 great idea. You know, these uh all the boys IrH 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:35.799 are wearing these um tight muscleman T shirts. They call 0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:38.680 them muscleman T shirts. So they were like pastel colors, 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:42.239 you know, Apricot and turquoise high neck collars fit tight 0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:45.359 on you. And we had this really great idea. We'll 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:48.160 go into Mervyn's and we'll put on three of those 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:50.839 T shirts and put our shirt over it and walk out. 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:55.239 And we walked out and the manager's waiting and my 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:57.880 dad takes me to uh he comes against me, and 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:00.200 then he he gives me a notebook. He says, feel, 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:02.480 this is why you're never going to steal again. He 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:05.920 took me to apologize to the story manager and then 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:08.080 he says, and think of something that's going to keep 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:09.640 you out of trouble, or you're never coming out of 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:13.160 that room again. All summer and uh, the Beatles had 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:15.359 just come out, and we said we want to play 0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:17.360 music Dad, because my friend had just got a guitar 0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:20.200 when he was on vacation in Mexico, Jody Jody Lopez, 0:48:20.280 --> 0:48:23.080 my first guitar player. And uh, he took us where 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:25.600 he used to get in the car. He goes. He 0:48:25.680 --> 0:48:28.120 took us to Allegro Music and Fremont. He points at 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:29.680 the wall because all the instruments were hanging out in 0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:33.960 the wall. Is anything you want? And uh, my dad 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:37.239 used to work in these show bars like uh, he 0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:40.040 worked at this hotel in palab Alto called The Companion, 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:44.120 which was like a small Caesar's palace owned by Terry Melcher, 0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:51.040 days boy and producer. Yeah, so they have these show 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.600 bands are like the Big Beats and the swingdon Lads 0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:56.279 and and these bands had horns and they were cool 0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:58.600 and just really cool. And we would go there to 0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:01.600 pick up my dad and I'd seen these bands rehearsing 0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:05.160 there and checking them out. And to me, the sax 0:49:05.239 --> 0:49:08.920 player was always the coolest guy, so I pointed the saxophone. 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:11.080 My brother always said the drummer was the coolest guy, 0:49:11.200 --> 0:49:13.560 so he points at the drums. I remember we came 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:18.239 home that day and the guitar player, Jody, he knew 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:21.920 the beginning to Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison, and he 0:49:22.000 --> 0:49:25.560 starts going dune dun dune, dune dune, and my brothers going, 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:29.640 you know, and he's gonna done done done, no, no, 0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:32.400 no none, and that's all he knew. And I'm squeaking 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:34.840 on the saxophone and my mom walks in and she 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:39.960 says they're gonna be huge stars. And then uh she 0:49:40.120 --> 0:49:43.480 became our manager her and eventually we got Rocko on 0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:47.399 the band. Although his name was Frank Houghton back then. Okay, 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.000 but how did you learn how to play? My dad 0:49:50.080 --> 0:49:53.520 got us all these teachers. You know. Uh, I wanted 0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:55.439 to play a sax. He got me a sax teacher. 0:49:55.520 --> 0:49:57.080 So I started to learning how to play sacks. But 0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.440 I got bored with that. The cool guys and all 0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:02.160 those dish bands played the organs. He said, I want 0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:04.440 to organ. He got me a far Fista organ. But 0:50:04.520 --> 0:50:06.640 then it was the really cool organ was the box. 0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:08.839 He got me the box. You know. Then I wanted 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:11.080 to play guitar, and it got me one of those 0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:14.000 box cheerdrop guitars. And you know, I'm learning. I would 0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:15.520 go tell these teachers what I want to learn. I 0:50:15.560 --> 0:50:17.320 want to learn how to play the chords on the guitar. 0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:19.800 I don't want to learn how to solo, and you know, 0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:22.000 and and I want to learn how to play chords 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:25.000 and and figure out songs. I wanted to figure out 0:50:25.600 --> 0:50:28.120 the chords to my favorite records. Of course, that's what 0:50:28.200 --> 0:50:30.839 we did. So my dad went to one of these 0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:33.440 musicians at his job and he said, you know, my 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:36.959 son is obsessed with music, and you know, I've gotten 0:50:37.000 --> 0:50:39.280 him a sack teacher. And guitar teacher, an organ teacher, 0:50:39.880 --> 0:50:42.400 and he goes, what else can I do for him? 0:50:42.400 --> 0:50:46.600 And the guy goes, get him a theory teacher, and 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:48.920 he says, you know what's that he is? Just just 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:50.640 do it. He goes, I know a guy, and he 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:54.759 sends me to Norman Bates, who was the bass player 0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:58.919 for Dave Brubeck and then he owned a hotel. Yeah, 0:51:00.120 --> 0:51:02.880 he was at ABC Music and Berlin Game. And I 0:51:02.920 --> 0:51:04.640 would go there once a week and give me ear 0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:08.000 training and interval training, and he taught me about chords 0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:09.759 and about numbers. And I used to go there and 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.120 used to think, what is this doing for me? I 0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:14.359 did not get it, you know. But every day I'd 0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:16.520 go back to the garage and I'd be trying to 0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:18.520 figure out the chords and the parts to all my 0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:21.200 favorite records, you know, so I could teach the band. 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:25.680 And Uh, one day it just all fell into place. 0:51:25.719 --> 0:51:28.960 It's like, oh, it's all math, it's all numbers. And 0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:31.399 I was always good math, you know. And the other 0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:34.279 thing my dad did was he got a guy named 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.719 Terry Saunders, a phenomenal guitar player. He just died last year. 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:40.560 He got him to come in and teach the band 0:51:41.200 --> 0:51:44.880 once a week as a band. Right, that's amazing. I 0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:47.200 don't know anybody else snore. He come in and he say, 0:51:47.320 --> 0:51:49.800 you know what song you want to learn? You know, 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:53.640 blah blah blah, and he's satisfaction, you know, and he 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:57.200 and he made us each player instruments. I remember one 0:51:57.280 --> 0:51:59.879 really cool thing he did. You know. We had high 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:04.200 Frank Houghton, who later became Rocko Pressti Bayer, probably the 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:06.000 most famous guy ever in our being it, you know, 0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:08.960 and uh, he looked at each of us, he goes, 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:12.440 play your instrument. You on guitar. Jody plays the guitar, 0:52:12.600 --> 0:52:14.920 and he points out my brother to play your drums, 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:17.280 and each guy plays it. When he goes to Frank, 0:52:18.080 --> 0:52:21.120 he says, play your guitar, and Rocco goes like this, 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:25.839 he couldn't play at all, you know, and he looks 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:28.359 at him. He says, you need to play the bass. 0:52:29.000 --> 0:52:32.120 And we all go what's a bass and he says, 0:52:32.400 --> 0:52:35.960 don't worry about it, you need one, And within two 0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:39.399 weeks Frank was playing bass better than you know, seven 0:52:39.520 --> 0:52:41.800 years on the guitar, you know, and became one of 0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.480 the most famous bass players ever. But that teacher. I 0:52:44.600 --> 0:52:47.399 used to watch him and he'd be teaching us all 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:50.440 these little parts, you know, and everybody we learned to 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:52.960 play these songs. Pretty soon we got to be a 0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:56.080 good little band, you know, playing around the town. And okay, 0:52:56.120 --> 0:52:59.920 a little bit slower. Obviously, since you jumped from instrum 0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:02.360 into instrument, you had some sort of facility with this. 0:53:02.960 --> 0:53:06.200 And yeah it's current jack of all trades, master of none, no, no, 0:53:06.320 --> 0:53:08.600 But what I mean is, you know, back in the 0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:11.200 air of the Beatles. I certainly took piano lessons before that, 0:53:12.000 --> 0:53:14.440 but it became clear as we tried to form bands, 0:53:14.880 --> 0:53:18.160 some people, it was there were naturals and other people 0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:21.719 were not. Okay, so obviously you must have had some 0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:24.439 natural effaci and my dad made me be the leader. 0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:28.400 He saw that, okay, and he didn't see it in 0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:32.440 my brother j Okay, from the moment you got the saxophone, 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:35.160 did you ever say, because you know, especially today, people 0:53:35.200 --> 0:53:39.200 buy their kids guitars. They played for a month, that's it. Okay, 0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:41.640 did you ever look back? Did you ever look you 0:53:41.760 --> 0:53:44.440 get the saxes and not really sure maybe I'd get 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:47.080 the right instrument or whatever, or from the moment you 0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:49.920 got it. You were into it. So here's the thing. 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:54.400 It's not the sacks, it's not the guitar, it's not 0:53:54.560 --> 0:53:59.759 the organ, it's the band. That's my instrument. That's what 0:53:59.880 --> 0:54:02.040 I do. And I realized this now. At the time, 0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:04.520 I didn't, but that was always my passion. I got 0:54:04.600 --> 0:54:07.120 tired of the sacks, and I got tired of the organ, 0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:08.640 and I got tired of the guitar, but I would 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:11.799 go back and I go whatever the band needed. That's 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:14.520 what I did, and my my deal became. I was 0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:18.200 the facilitator of the musicians in the band. I'd say, 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:20.880 I tell my brother. My brother wasn't a really great drummer, 0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:23.920 but he practiced incessantly right, And I would tell him, 0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:26.480 I want to make this beat like a percolator beat. 0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:31.200 Remember the coffee commercial. Of course, I said, we're gonna 0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:35.320 make a beat like that. Do you know nobody was 0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:37.520 doing that? You know, that's why I wanted to do it. 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:39.600 You know. I teach him that beat. No, no, you're 0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:42.239 based on doogle doogle bab boom, you know. And he 0:54:42.440 --> 0:54:44.480 learned this beat and then we do nine nine and 0:54:44.520 --> 0:54:47.239 a half. I Wilson Pigott, and I tell Frank, you know, 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:50.800 go like this, Boogo, Google Goo Google. And I showed 0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:52.719 Jody on the guitar and show him much because I 0:54:52.719 --> 0:54:56.279 could play these things, you know. And that's what Doc 0:54:56.400 --> 0:54:58.560 noticed about what I did. He says, you know, what 0:54:58.719 --> 0:55:01.640 you're doing with these songs amazing, But why aren't we 0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:04.279 writing our own? That's how probably never would have come 0:55:04.320 --> 0:55:08.080 to my mind. Okay, just going back, but when a 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:12.640 little kid, you're not that little, you're fourteen, gets ah soxophone. 0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:16.320 Saxophone is not that easy to play, okay. So, but 0:55:16.600 --> 0:55:20.440 you were determined and you never looked back. I wanted 0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:22.719 to play it in the band, okay. So you have 0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:27.120 the front and playing the guitar, yeah, okay, and you 0:55:27.280 --> 0:55:30.000 got the sacks. Your brother got the drums. So first 0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.920 the band was the three of you. You know. The 0:55:33.239 --> 0:55:36.800 point is it was a band first, and then we 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:40.600 learned to so okay. But when it was a band, 0:55:40.680 --> 0:55:42.440 when the guy was coming teaching the parts, how many 0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:46.920 people were in the band. There was five? Okay. How 0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:49.919 long after you started in the garage did you play 0:55:50.000 --> 0:55:55.719 outside the garage? Oh? That's you know. Soon, I mean 0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:58.440 we we we started playing far sooner than we should 0:55:58.440 --> 0:56:01.480 have people do. Yeah. I mean we just got out 0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:03.360 there and started playing. You know what kind of gigs 0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:06.920 in the park, you know, at the school. Whatever. My 0:56:07.040 --> 0:56:09.919 mother could, uh you could dig up her. My mother 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:14.160 and Frank's mother became the managers. Okay. And how many 0:56:14.160 --> 0:56:17.279 of these gigs need you get paid for? We were 0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:19.840 It wasn't about money. But were you getting paid or 0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:23.080 was it always for free? It wasn't always for free? Okay, 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:26.960 So Needles just say, this is the era of the Beatles. 0:56:27.080 --> 0:56:29.960 What do we know about the Beatles? They were internationally famous, 0:56:30.560 --> 0:56:33.160 they got all the girls, and they were rich. Okay, 0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:37.759 you're starting the band other than loving the music, do 0:56:37.840 --> 0:56:39.839 you say, hey, I want to be famous, I want 0:56:39.840 --> 0:56:41.320 to be rich. I want to use this as a 0:56:41.360 --> 0:56:43.960 way to integrate myself. And I would say the most 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:46.680 important out of those three would be the girls. Fourteen 0:56:46.760 --> 0:56:49.320 years old? That's why do you want to be in 0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:52.640 the band? Because you're cool? You know, That's that's that's 0:56:52.719 --> 0:56:57.600 the driving force. Okay. I got asked, did it work 0:56:57.680 --> 0:57:01.359 for you? Yeah? It worked. I mean it worked better 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:04.240 than if I didn't have the band, you know, right? Okay, 0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:07.640 how many times you've been married? Three times? Okay? Are 0:57:07.680 --> 0:57:11.560 you married down? I just got married yet June. So, uh, 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:15.640 the band first year you're in the high school. So 0:57:15.800 --> 0:57:18.760 the band starts when you're fourteen? Yeah, but not Tower 0:57:18.760 --> 0:57:22.160 of Power guy, I realized, Okay, when does it become 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:24.680 the Motowns and Tower of Power? The Motowns when I 0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:30.880 was almost actually when I was sixteen, and then uh, 0:57:31.760 --> 0:57:34.680 I hired Doc when I was seventeen, and we changed 0:57:34.720 --> 0:57:37.120 our name a few months after. He was in the band, 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:40.720 just before I was. And when when when you changed 0:57:40.760 --> 0:57:42.320 the name of the band. How many people were in 0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:47.120 the band? Uh? Nine or ten? You know. We had 0:57:47.160 --> 0:57:49.400 a singer, Rufus Miller and he came in the band, 0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:52.040 but then he left for like four months because the 0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:54.800 Black Panthers were after him for a cocaine did he 0:57:54.960 --> 0:57:57.800 just vanished? But then he came back. So he was 0:57:57.840 --> 0:58:01.040 with us when we auditioned. Okay, so it was always 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:04.240 a big band. Was there a specific model? Did you 0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:06.680 say I want to be like them? Yes? Who was 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:10.440 up the Spiders? You gotta tell me who that is? Nobody, 0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:12.840 you don't know who they It was a local soul band. 0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:14.720 They were a white soul band. They had a six 0:58:14.760 --> 0:58:17.560 ft three inch black chick named Truny Johnson, who was 0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:20.200 very good. But to be real honest, it was about 0:58:20.280 --> 0:58:24.040 the band. And they had a white singer named Dennis Delacua. 0:58:24.120 --> 0:58:26.560 He played organ and he had an alto sitting on 0:58:26.680 --> 0:58:28.800 the organ, and in the middle of the song when 0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:31.160 there was a horned soulely, he would stand up and 0:58:31.200 --> 0:58:33.760 play alto with the trumpet and tentor. I had never 0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:38.360 seen a band play soul music that tight and that soulful. 0:58:38.480 --> 0:58:41.120 It moved me and from that moment the night I 0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:45.200 saw them. How old were you then? I was sixteen? 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:49.760 And after that all other forms of music were out 0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:52.320 there window only soul music. That was it. It wasn't 0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:54.880 until I started writing songs with Doc and sort of 0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:58.320 reopened my mind to other forms of music and listening 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:01.400 to writers and all that, but I got like blinders 0:59:01.480 --> 0:59:04.400 on about soul music. I became a soul music fanatic, 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:09.000 and I wanted to be like the Spiders. Okay, did 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:13.760 you play like rock and roll before you saw the Spiders? Okay? 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:16.800 So this is my direction, you know somewhere in the city, 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:21.200 right right right, Okay, So now you have the band, 0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:24.400 your parents announced they're escaping their bills, they're going back 0:59:24.440 --> 0:59:29.520 to Detroit. Yes, you graduate from high school. How often 0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:31.240 is what are you doing for money? How often is 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:35.160 a band working? And not very much? Not very much 0:59:35.160 --> 0:59:37.880 at all. And uh, you know, I look back at 0:59:37.920 --> 0:59:39.560 that time in my life and I wonder how we 0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:43.480 even survived. My brother had this girlfriend named Kathy and 0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:47.360 they're still married today, and uh, she would be with 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:49.760 us and she would bring us to Lasagnas a week, 0:59:49.920 --> 0:59:52.960 big ones, and we tried to parse that out. And 0:59:53.040 --> 0:59:55.280 you know, we had friends and uh, you know, we 0:59:55.520 --> 0:59:57.520 could drink for free. We go down to the nightclub, 0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:01.200 you know. And it wasn't that we couldn't I couldn't 1:00:01.240 --> 1:00:03.360 go to the nightclub, but we couldn't play at the 1:00:03.480 --> 1:00:06.240 nightclubs that we used to play because they had sent 1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:09.560 out this memorandum to all the clubs and the be areas. 1:00:09.600 --> 1:00:11.960 And you hire these kids again, you're losing your liquor license. 1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:14.919 So you know, we're just starving. That's why I say, 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:17.800 by the time we did the film or audition, we're 1:00:17.800 --> 1:00:19.200 on our woods end, you know. And I told the 1:00:19.280 --> 1:00:22.760 guy there, look, nothing happens, I'm not coming back from Detroit. 1:00:22.920 --> 1:00:32.480 Doc was devastated. Everybody was what was your living situation? 1:00:33.120 --> 1:00:35.040 We we were renting a house and were the first 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:37.200 house we got when my parents left. We had this 1:00:37.280 --> 1:00:39.120 old man and every time he came to click, then 1:00:39.200 --> 1:00:42.440 we said, oh we have it, but you also okay boys, 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:45.000 And we were there for about four months and uh, 1:00:45.160 --> 1:00:48.240 he never collected her rent. It was God send, you know. 1:00:48.680 --> 1:00:50.960 And then then he kicked you out. No, no, the 1:00:51.000 --> 1:00:55.480 septic thing broke and uh and we we got out 1:00:55.520 --> 1:00:57.120 in the middle of the night and went and took 1:00:57.160 --> 1:00:58.919 the money. We had the money to pay the rent. 1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:01.280 We just hadn't paid him, and we took that. You 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:05.440 were never intending to pay him, probably not, you know, 1:01:05.680 --> 1:01:08.200 trying to live, you know. Tother auser meanted it and 1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:12.080 got two roommates. Okay. Did you ever have a day job? 1:01:13.240 --> 1:01:15.480 All right, you know, not very much. I mean I 1:01:16.040 --> 1:01:18.560 remember I worked when I was a kid, you know, 1:01:18.600 --> 1:01:24.120 a drug store. Not very long, you know. And plus 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:26.480 when times we're really tough in the early eighties, I 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:31.040 remember I answered the phone for a plumber in Santa Monica. Wow. Yeah, 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:33.000 but I sat there and wrote songs and got high, 1:01:33.080 --> 1:01:35.440 and uh answered the phone. He was a good guy. 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:38.160 Was that the only low point for you and Tower 1:01:38.200 --> 1:01:40.680 of Power the early eighties or is there another time 1:01:40.760 --> 1:01:45.520 where you were at wits end um that was the 1:01:45.560 --> 1:01:50.520 lowest point, Yes, definitely, you know. And then but even then, 1:01:50.640 --> 1:01:54.480 you know, I went for another what eight years drinking 1:01:54.520 --> 1:01:56.600 and using it, you know, and then I really bottomed 1:01:56.640 --> 1:01:59.040 out and got clean. As soon as I got clean, 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:02.000 everything started getting back. What was the motivation to get clean? 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:06.680 It I'll stop working, you know, I had good by 1:02:06.720 --> 1:02:09.600 now I'm working with Hughey Lewis. I'm I'm making money, right, 1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:12.520 I got money, and but I'm spending it all on 1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:16.360 drugs and alcohol and I'm not getting loaded. I'm driving 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:18.640 on and I feel like I got withdrawals. But I 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:22.000 have drugs and me and stopped working. And yet even 1:02:22.040 --> 1:02:24.960 though it stopped working, I wouldn't quit giving my money 1:02:25.080 --> 1:02:27.880 to the guy, you know. And uh, and I just 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:29.840 wanted to quit, but I didn't think I could. And 1:02:30.040 --> 1:02:33.000 I went into a hospital, not not for the treatment, 1:02:33.720 --> 1:02:35.560 not for a a or nothing. I didn't go there 1:02:35.600 --> 1:02:38.720 for that. I just thought I'm going to rest and uh, 1:02:38.960 --> 1:02:41.080 maybe you know, they'll kick me out. And I'm sure 1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:42.320 it was going to die. By the time I was 1:02:42.400 --> 1:02:45.080 forty I was thirty seven, and I went in there 1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:47.600 and uh, they did a lecture on the twelve steps, 1:02:47.600 --> 1:02:49.360 and I realized there was a way to stop drinking 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:51.840 and using it and not be miserable a little bit slower. 1:02:51.960 --> 1:02:54.160 What do you know, hospitals, they don't just let you 1:02:54.240 --> 1:02:58.360 in for anything. There's a regular hospital rehab St. John's 1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:00.720 in Santa Monica. Okay, so you went into it's a rehab. 1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:03.240 It's a rehab. There's okay, there is, But I don't 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:06.160 know what rehab is. I have no idea what it is. 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:09.640 I saw. I say, I'd been hospitalized for pancreatitis like 1:03:09.760 --> 1:03:13.480 thirteen times. I couldn't drink alcohol, you know, and so 1:03:13.600 --> 1:03:15.240 I used a lot of drugs to keep away from it, 1:03:15.720 --> 1:03:17.960 but I always went back to the alcohol. And so 1:03:18.320 --> 1:03:21.440 just this vicious cycle in and out of hospitals, you know. 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:24.400 And so finally, you know, I get there and they say, 1:03:24.800 --> 1:03:26.760 in order for us to let you into this facility, 1:03:26.880 --> 1:03:28.560 you have to be in a wheelchair. I was like, 1:03:28.960 --> 1:03:32.200 bring the wheelchair and I'm done, you know. And but 1:03:32.320 --> 1:03:34.560 I had no hope. I just thought I was going 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:37.720 to rest for thirty days. And I went into this lecture. 1:03:37.840 --> 1:03:39.920 You know, there were these girls, they were talking, they 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:41.760 were near me, they were going to you know, so 1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:43.760 so it's not working a program. And if you don't 1:03:43.760 --> 1:03:45.320 work a program there and they kick him out and 1:03:45.640 --> 1:03:47.520 this guy he works a good program. And I remember 1:03:47.560 --> 1:03:50.840 asking what's the program and they go, oh, you don't 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:54.240 get to find out because you're in detox. That made 1:03:54.280 --> 1:03:56.880 me curious, you know. And the next morning I saw 1:03:57.040 --> 1:03:59.560 like thirty of those people going into this room and 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:04.040 this guy, Joe Takamini, the doctor in Santa Monica, and 1:04:04.160 --> 1:04:07.480 he gave a lecture on those steps and I realized, oh, 1:04:08.560 --> 1:04:10.880 there's something you actually do so that you can stop 1:04:11.000 --> 1:04:13.440 drinking and using and not be miserable and wanted it 1:04:13.480 --> 1:04:18.680 and never drink again. Wow, never relapsed. And then today, 1:04:19.320 --> 1:04:22.720 thirty two years today, literally today, I woke up this 1:04:22.840 --> 1:04:26.520 morning thanking God. Okay, so you know, as part of 1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:29.360 I'm not a twelve stepper, but I'm familiar with it 1:04:29.760 --> 1:04:31.880 that you have to make amends and all that stuff. 1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:34.880 Did you do that? And do you still go to meetings? 1:04:35.200 --> 1:04:38.880 I was there this morning seven am. Really absolutely how 1:04:39.000 --> 1:04:41.320 often do you go to a meeting? Wherever I can? 1:04:41.440 --> 1:04:43.480 I like going? That's why I was gonna ask that 1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:48.560 question next it and you love it because it Uh. 1:04:49.960 --> 1:04:52.240 For one, I like the feeling I get when I 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:54.920 helped somebody, and when I share my recovery, you know, 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:58.280 I help people and people come to me. I sponsor guys. 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:01.280 It's just gets me out of myself. One of the 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:03.160 things I learned in recovery is that, you know, the 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:06.280 whole thing is getting out of self, you know. And 1:05:06.920 --> 1:05:08.840 I'd like to tell you I'm not very self centered, 1:05:08.880 --> 1:05:12.120 but that's a lie that I am, you know, And 1:05:12.600 --> 1:05:14.480 so you know, I've learned how to deal with that 1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:20.280 stuff in uh, in that recovery program. Okay, how did 1:05:20.280 --> 1:05:21.880 you end up in Santa Monica? Because you know, you 1:05:22.040 --> 1:05:24.200 all these stories happen in l A. And you've been 1:05:24.240 --> 1:05:26.640 in northern but when do you move down south? I 1:05:26.840 --> 1:05:29.120 was in the Bay Area, and you know, all that 1:05:29.120 --> 1:05:32.080 stuff had happened with the warners and CBS and my 1:05:32.360 --> 1:05:35.560 my career is falling apart and everything, and uh, I 1:05:35.680 --> 1:05:37.640 was at the Record Plan in Saucelito, where I worked 1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:40.560 for years making records, and I was friends with the owner, 1:05:40.640 --> 1:05:44.440 Chris Stone. And Chris Stone, you know, then, how are you? 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:46.880 How are you doing? He says, hey, how's my favorite guy? 1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:50.520 You know? And I'm on, you know, crying the blues, 1:05:51.040 --> 1:05:53.400 and how a sudden he yells at me, and he says, 1:05:54.280 --> 1:05:55.960 get out of those because you're one of the most 1:05:56.000 --> 1:05:58.280 talented people I know. Get out of those Berkeley Hills 1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:01.680 clouds and get in the business. Get out the businesses 1:06:01.760 --> 1:06:05.920 in l A. I was stunned, man, stunned. You know, 1:06:07.280 --> 1:06:09.920 you never yelled at me. And I went home and 1:06:09.960 --> 1:06:11.960 you know, we're all strung out, and my wife's in 1:06:12.000 --> 1:06:14.200 the bed, and I got in and go, we're moving 1:06:14.240 --> 1:06:16.960 to l A. And she goes, what We're moving to 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:19.720 l A. And she goes, why would we do that? 1:06:19.960 --> 1:06:23.560 I go because Chris Stones said so, and she okay. 1:06:23.720 --> 1:06:25.520 You know, Chris told me, he said, when you come down, 1:06:26.160 --> 1:06:28.520 you have free reign at the Record Plan twenty four 1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:30.160 hours a day. And that's what I did. I came 1:06:30.240 --> 1:06:32.680 down and I hung out at the Record Plan and 1:06:32.760 --> 1:06:34.360 I tried to get sessions and I got a lot 1:06:34.440 --> 1:06:37.680 of recording sessions. And but you don't live in l 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:40.760 A now, no, no, no. I left when the earthquake happened. 1:06:41.640 --> 1:06:43.880 My wife. My wife was six months pregnant with their 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:46.480 first child, and next thing I knew, I was in Scottsdale. 1:06:47.200 --> 1:06:51.680 I still haven't recovered from the earthquake. But uh, okay, 1:06:52.120 --> 1:06:55.520 so your brother Jack, where's he today? He stopped being 1:06:55.560 --> 1:06:57.960 a drummer, I presumed. Now he plays drums again. Now 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:00.120 he did for a lot long time he stopped. And 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:02.400 what did he end up doing for a living? He's 1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:06.200 like a uh remember when when the millennium happened, you know, 1:07:06.280 --> 1:07:09.280 in two thousand, you know, and everything was everyone was 1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:11.800 afraid about what happened. Yeah, he was like head of 1:07:13.040 --> 1:07:17.400 uh computer security worldwide for Cisco. Then you know, like 1:07:17.520 --> 1:07:21.320 that's like a pretty good job. Oh yeah, he does good. Okay, okay, 1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:24.680 you've been married three times? How many kids? Five? Five? 1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:31.040 How what are the ages? Uh? Forty four and twenty? 1:07:32.400 --> 1:07:34.440 And they all how many are still on the payroll? 1:07:35.360 --> 1:07:38.880 I mean that you have to support them. Oh they're 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:41.600 all adults now, they all are, so they altered out. 1:07:41.600 --> 1:07:43.880 You have good relationship with all of them? My three 1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:46.000 young ones, I do not, although I love them with 1:07:46.040 --> 1:07:47.800 all my heart. They stopped talking to me when their 1:07:47.880 --> 1:07:51.320 mother decided she'd want to be married anymore. How long 1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:53.800 ago was that? It's over three years? Now it's one 1:07:53.840 --> 1:07:56.240 of the sorest parts of my life. Yeah, but you 1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:58.640 know I have confidence that that's gonna come around. How 1:07:58.680 --> 1:08:02.880 long were we with her? Twenty four years and she 1:08:03.160 --> 1:08:06.120 decided to end it? So why are they mad at you? 1:08:07.640 --> 1:08:09.640 You know, I can't really answer that because they don't 1:08:09.680 --> 1:08:13.520 talk to me. Well, since we're having an honest conversation, 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:19.040 did you did she fire you because you behave badly? Um? 1:08:20.000 --> 1:08:23.080 That's another sort of one that's unanswered Bush. You know, 1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:25.880 she if you if you look at the paperwork and 1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:28.840 says your reconcilable differences. Right. I actually took it to 1:08:28.920 --> 1:08:31.439 the church. We became members of the church in two 1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:34.560 thousand four, and you know, we were having problems and 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:37.000 we went there and did all this writ but she 1:08:37.160 --> 1:08:39.640 just kept going further and further south. And then uh, 1:08:40.240 --> 1:08:42.599 finally she and I thought, you know, we're Christians, she's 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:44.360 not going to divorce. We we got to work through this, 1:08:44.520 --> 1:08:47.599 you know. But she wasn't able. She has she has 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:51.360 a lot of baggage to alcoholic baggage, baggage from an 1:08:51.400 --> 1:08:54.479 alcoholic father and a lot of abuse there and uh, 1:08:55.200 --> 1:08:57.200 she needed you know, what happened with us is that 1:08:58.120 --> 1:09:02.120 she got overly upset with her kids, and one of 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:04.840 the best mothers you'll ever meet in your life. But 1:09:05.320 --> 1:09:07.479 and this is my fault, is that I allowed that 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:09.320 to happen. I should have you know, she met all 1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:13.720 my needs. She was a great wife, and uh, I 1:09:13.800 --> 1:09:17.120 should have nurtured the marriage and and insisted, you know, 1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:19.640 she tell me, you know, we're growing apart. You know, 1:09:20.000 --> 1:09:22.040 I need to be wooed. And then I go, let's 1:09:22.040 --> 1:09:24.120 go out, let's do something. Let's go and she well, 1:09:24.240 --> 1:09:26.000 you know, I got this kid thing with the kids, 1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:29.040 and you know, I mean, you know, we could take 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:31.000 the kids, and it was always the kids, the kids 1:09:31.040 --> 1:09:32.640 and kids, you know, and I love my kids and 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:35.479 I love being with them, so I'm not confrontational, you know. 1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:38.559 So I would just go okay, you know, and then 1:09:38.720 --> 1:09:40.680 you know, we did grow apart, and pretty soon it 1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:43.080 was too far apart to get back. Did she find 1:09:43.160 --> 1:09:48.479 somebody new? No, I doubt you will. I wish you would. Okay, 1:09:49.000 --> 1:09:52.720 So she's in Arizona and you're in Arizona, and I 1:09:52.800 --> 1:09:54.600 just got married in June. Yes, I say, how did 1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:56.600 you meet your present life? She's a member of my 1:09:56.680 --> 1:10:01.360 home group. What my recovery group oh okay, So yeah, 1:10:01.360 --> 1:10:03.599 I havn't own her for years. Okay, just to be clear, 1:10:04.000 --> 1:10:06.040 I mean, you know, isn't there some kind of you know, 1:10:06.200 --> 1:10:08.639 you can't meet somebody in recovery do They never would 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:11.920 date anyone and recovery ever ever, ever, they say, you're 1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:14.280 fishing and polluted waters if you do that. So how 1:10:14.320 --> 1:10:16.720 did you meet? Isn't she in the recovery group? You know? 1:10:16.840 --> 1:10:19.560 No matter what I did, God kept putting her in 1:10:19.680 --> 1:10:22.519 my life. And finally I just uh it was my 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:25.360 sponsor actually told me. He said, you know, did you 1:10:25.400 --> 1:10:27.400 ever stop to think that maybe God wants you to 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:29.200 be with that lady? You know? And I was like, 1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:33.120 I guess so, And now what is her What is 1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:36.320 her rage relative to you? Just four years younger? She's sixty, 1:10:37.479 --> 1:10:40.400 she have children, she has to and she has h 1:10:41.000 --> 1:10:43.799 an interesting thing to her young daughter and her family 1:10:43.960 --> 1:10:46.200 go speak to her either. So we both have that 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:50.160 in our lives that in the program people, you're going, okay, 1:10:50.320 --> 1:10:54.120 how did you get into Christianity? My wife at the time, 1:10:55.400 --> 1:10:58.760 I was already really into spirituality, you know, I mean, 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:01.760 and I had already started reading the Bible. I used 1:11:01.760 --> 1:11:03.640 to read two pages a day for ten years, but 1:11:03.760 --> 1:11:06.639 I really didn't want to hear about Jesus Christ. Did 1:11:06.760 --> 1:11:09.519 not then I want to hang with people that talked 1:11:09.520 --> 1:11:12.240 about Jesus Christ. Because there was a time in my 1:11:12.400 --> 1:11:15.880 band when David Garibaldi was a Christian and he brought 1:11:15.960 --> 1:11:18.920 in two other Christians in. We called him the God Squad. 1:11:19.479 --> 1:11:21.559 And they're always pointing the finger. You need to quit 1:11:21.720 --> 1:11:24.200 use those drugs, and you need to read the Bible. 1:11:24.280 --> 1:11:27.360 And you know, alcoholics, they don't want to be pointed 1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:30.000 at and talked down to. But I could always see 1:11:30.760 --> 1:11:34.920 that it was working in his life. And so flash forward, 1:11:34.960 --> 1:11:38.120 you know, eventually, in my studies of all different kinds 1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:42.240 of you know, um, self help writers and spiritual I 1:11:42.280 --> 1:11:45.160 read the Koran, I read the Course of Miracles, I 1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:47.799 read the Bible, and then pretty soon I just settled 1:11:47.840 --> 1:11:50.320 on the Bible. I felt like that was the truth, 1:11:50.560 --> 1:11:52.320 and I would read the two pages a day. But 1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:55.640 I'm not wanting to hear about Jesus. And guess what, 1:11:56.160 --> 1:11:58.880 I didn't see him in there at all. You know, well, 1:11:59.120 --> 1:12:02.320 you didn't want to you're about Jesus because because of 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:06.519 that situation with the Yeah, yeah, okay, so I thought 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:09.879 of Christians, as you know, do good heer finger pointers 1:12:10.520 --> 1:12:14.559 because that was your experience. So do you believe in God? Now? 1:12:15.320 --> 1:12:17.360 I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ. Yeah, 1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:20.479 very very friendly. So and even though it's my ex 1:12:20.600 --> 1:12:23.120 wife who you know, I got started right, Yeah, and 1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:26.240 I haven't wavered in my faith at all. Okay, So 1:12:27.200 --> 1:12:29.040 how did the money thing work? You know, there were 1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:32.839 so many people in the band, so you know we're hippies. 1:12:33.600 --> 1:12:37.360 Everything is equal. Okay, But did was there enough to 1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:40.960 carry you through the whole time? God has always provided 1:12:41.000 --> 1:12:43.320 for me. I don't know how, but yeah, okay, So 1:12:43.439 --> 1:12:47.840 at age sixty nine, hypothetically you can't play music. Do 1:12:47.880 --> 1:12:50.160 you have enough money to get you through? Or do 1:12:50.200 --> 1:12:52.640 you have to work to pay the bills? I have 1:12:52.760 --> 1:12:56.040 to work. I mean I probably have enough to get 1:12:56.120 --> 1:12:59.160 me through. But you know, people tell me when you're 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:02.200 gonna retaried. No retirement of the Bible, that's a handmade thing. 1:13:02.640 --> 1:13:06.160 There's no retirement of the music business. My role models 1:13:06.240 --> 1:13:09.760 BB King, I'm gonna bob till a drop. Okay. So 1:13:09.880 --> 1:13:13.080 what's the status of the band today. Well, we uh 1:13:13.560 --> 1:13:16.519 healthier than ever, playing better than ever. We put out 1:13:16.560 --> 1:13:20.879 a fifty year celebration record UH in June of eighteen, 1:13:21.680 --> 1:13:24.120 Soul Side of Town. And when we made that record, 1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:27.519 we actually recorded two albums with the material. So today 1:13:27.600 --> 1:13:31.080 we have our new record coming out March twenty. It's 1:13:31.080 --> 1:13:33.720 called Step Up on mac Avenue Records. And then UH 1:13:34.400 --> 1:13:37.519 we recorded Are. We did a concert in Oakland at 1:13:37.560 --> 1:13:40.000 the Fox Theater and we had all these old members 1:13:40.040 --> 1:13:42.600 of the band Colm, we had extra background vocalists and 1:13:42.920 --> 1:13:47.679 ten strings and just phenomenal gig. We filmed two nights 1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:50.479 and UH filmed it an HD. And so that's why 1:13:50.520 --> 1:13:55.160 I'm in town. I'm mixing UH that live recording. And 1:13:55.280 --> 1:13:59.320 what's the plan for it? Fifty year DVD documentary on 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:02.919 Tower of Power? Okay, and you'll sell it to Netflix, 1:14:02.960 --> 1:14:06.600 Showtime somebody. That's the plan. Okay. How often does the 1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:09.760 band work? Two hundred days a year? We're out, But 1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:12.800 that's not all gigs. That's travel days and off days 1:14:12.800 --> 1:14:17.360 as well, so many gigs. I don't know, and Doc 1:14:17.479 --> 1:14:19.519 knows all that stuff, but I would say anywhere from 1:14:21.120 --> 1:14:24.400 But who books it? Now? We're with Paradigm. I had 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:27.080 an agent for years that I actually put him in 1:14:27.120 --> 1:14:30.320 the business, Guy Richard he was with a p A 1:14:31.120 --> 1:14:33.160 funny was just talking about the kids. The name came 1:14:33.240 --> 1:14:36.560 up last night, guys, funny. Yeah, I was out with 1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:40.240 some agents. Guy who works at a PA. He was tired. 1:14:40.280 --> 1:14:42.720 He had a health scare, right, he's saying, because that's 1:14:42.720 --> 1:14:44.240 how it came up, because he's we tired and said, 1:14:44.240 --> 1:14:46.400 you know, I want you to take over these acts. Okay, 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:50.439 guys are great, great guy, How how did you put 1:14:50.479 --> 1:14:53.599 him in the business because we were having a hard time. 1:14:53.600 --> 1:14:55.120 We had a guy named Peter Shils. Do you remember 1:14:55.120 --> 1:14:57.439 Peter Shields and William Morris. We were with William Morris, 1:14:58.000 --> 1:15:01.080 guy named Peter Shil's biggest agent there and he handled us. 1:15:01.360 --> 1:15:03.840 But when things started to go south, you know, we 1:15:03.960 --> 1:15:06.320 needed gigs and he wasn't getting them and he's going, well, 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:10.120 you know, uh what was he was just waiting answering 1:15:10.160 --> 1:15:12.439 the phone because he had George Benson and Bill Cosby 1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:15.439 and there's a lot of cocaine going on at William Morrison. 1:15:15.520 --> 1:15:18.679 Then there was a big bust. But before the bus happened, 1:15:18.800 --> 1:15:21.000 we went to Peter. We said, look, man, you know, 1:15:21.080 --> 1:15:24.000 we gotta do something. And Doc had started a little 1:15:24.080 --> 1:15:28.200 sideband and guy had booked him in San Diego at 1:15:28.200 --> 1:15:31.440 San Diego State and he was like in the entertainment 1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:34.719 banking part there and he wound up working and William 1:15:34.720 --> 1:15:37.400 Morrison the Fair Department. And Doc said, I know this 1:15:37.600 --> 1:15:41.600 Mexican guy, Guy Richard, and he's at William Morris and 1:15:41.720 --> 1:15:44.439 he loves the band and he's a go getter. And 1:15:44.560 --> 1:15:46.439 so we went to Peter Shields and we said, you 1:15:46.560 --> 1:15:49.320 got a guy here named Guy Richard and he will 1:15:49.400 --> 1:15:52.240 get us gigs. And he goes, who go Guy Richard. 1:15:52.320 --> 1:15:54.280 He picks up the phone, he goes, he goes, where's 1:15:54.320 --> 1:15:56.680 he got to go to the Fair Department. You got 1:15:56.760 --> 1:15:59.360 a guy down there named Guy Richard? He go send 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:02.200 him up. He's working for me. And so he comes 1:16:02.320 --> 1:16:05.880 up and he's Peter's assistant. And within two weeks Peter 1:16:06.000 --> 1:16:08.920 calls me and he says, uh, man, I gotta thank 1:16:09.000 --> 1:16:12.680 you man for what He goes, This guy is phenomenal. 1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:16.040 He goes, He's changed my whole office. Man, he's phenomenal. 1:16:16.120 --> 1:16:18.680 I love him, you know, a great make sure we 1:16:18.760 --> 1:16:21.479 get some gigs, you know, and pretty soon we're getting 1:16:21.479 --> 1:16:24.080 more geese because guys making it happen, you know. And 1:16:24.120 --> 1:16:26.080 then the Big bust happened over there for all the 1:16:26.160 --> 1:16:30.799 cocaine and Peter Shields went down and Guy got his gig. Okay, 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.400 so since Guy retired, who's your guy now? Now? We 1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:37.840 went over to Paradigm Gary Buck in Chicago and ron 1:16:37.960 --> 1:16:40.840 Kaplan here and we just signed with them. Okay. So 1:16:42.280 --> 1:16:46.240 are these all hard ticket or soft ticket dates? I 1:16:46.600 --> 1:16:50.479 don't know, man, and I don't think about that stuff. Okay, 1:16:50.520 --> 1:16:53.960 but are your hard tickets? Are you playing fairs or 1:16:54.080 --> 1:16:56.000 is there some are people paying just to see you? 1:16:56.400 --> 1:16:58.599 We're not doing that many fairs anyway. We were, we've 1:16:58.680 --> 1:17:02.200 been doing them, and Paradigm is changing all that, you know, 1:17:02.280 --> 1:17:04.840 we're doing like we we just started. We got four 1:17:04.960 --> 1:17:08.720 dates with a string cheese incident. I actually had to 1:17:08.760 --> 1:17:12.120 know them and Madison House the managers. That's something I know. 1:17:12.200 --> 1:17:13.960 I hear that they play some of our songs and 1:17:14.000 --> 1:17:16.920 they're saying they're fans of the band Game. I've seen them, 1:17:16.960 --> 1:17:18.360 but you know, it's one of these Gamans. They play 1:17:18.400 --> 1:17:20.400 something different every night, so maybe they do. Yeah, I 1:17:20.439 --> 1:17:22.240 don't know. I don't know them, but you know, we're 1:17:22.280 --> 1:17:25.599 doing red Rocks with them, and really so yeah, they're 1:17:25.600 --> 1:17:27.960 they're cooking an up a step, you know. Okay, So 1:17:28.160 --> 1:17:30.479 what kind of venues do you play when you headline 1:17:31.360 --> 1:17:35.600 performance arts theaters? We play festivals, you know. We do 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:38.240 the North c Jazz Festival, Monto Jazz Festival. We go 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:41.160 over to Tokyo do Fuji Jazz, we do the Blue Notes, 1:17:41.880 --> 1:17:45.439 We do everything. Okay, And you still like going on 1:17:45.520 --> 1:17:48.120 the road. Yeah, and you know, depending on which day 1:17:48.120 --> 1:17:53.440 you asked me, Yeah, you know, hig just got remarried. 1:17:54.000 --> 1:17:56.559 So what's keeping you occupied other than the two pages 1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:58.840 of the Bible when you're on the road. Well, I 1:17:58.960 --> 1:18:01.439 mean more than that, but uh, I know how to 1:18:01.560 --> 1:18:04.000 enjoy myself. That's not a problem. What do you know 1:18:04.120 --> 1:18:05.960 how to do the road? Okay? What do you how 1:18:05.960 --> 1:18:08.120 do you enjoy? I always get up. I study first 1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:09.840 thing I do in the morning. I renew my mind. 1:18:10.280 --> 1:18:12.120 Once I've done that, I know I can do the day. 1:18:12.160 --> 1:18:14.200 Then I work out, go out and get a nice 1:18:14.280 --> 1:18:16.960 meal and stand for sound check, go hang with my guys. 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:19.320 These are the funniest guys in the world. We laugh 1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:21.599 a lot. And uh, and then I got friends all 1:18:21.640 --> 1:18:23.599 over the place. I'm sure you do after all those 1:18:23.680 --> 1:18:26.719 fifty years on the road. So this point in time. 1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:28.800 The people in the band, how many people in the 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:33.840 band today? How long have those people been in the band? Well, 1:18:34.160 --> 1:18:37.360 Doc's been in the band almost fifty two years. I'm 1:18:37.400 --> 1:18:41.080 almost fifty two years. Garibaldi's he was out four times, 1:18:41.520 --> 1:18:45.960 he came back. Doc was in and out once too, right, Yeah, 1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:48.760 I fired him for a day here, Rocko, I fired 1:18:48.840 --> 1:18:50.479 for eight years. But he's not with us no more. 1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:52.200 I had to let him go, not let him. I 1:18:52.240 --> 1:18:54.600 had to take him off the road. His health was 1:18:54.680 --> 1:18:58.760 not good. But Garibaldi was out eighteen years. The last 1:18:58.760 --> 1:19:01.800 time he was out, he came back. We think he's staying. 1:19:02.680 --> 1:19:06.000 And uh, the other guys, you know, seventeen to twenty years. 1:19:06.479 --> 1:19:09.400 We always laugh about it because you know these bands nowadays, 1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:11.120 they last a year and a half, two years. You know, 1:19:11.479 --> 1:19:15.280 our new guys are like seventeen eighty. But our singers, Uh, 1:19:15.680 --> 1:19:18.479 he's in three years now. How did you find him? 1:19:19.800 --> 1:19:21.920 Do you know Tony Coleman they call him TC. He 1:19:22.040 --> 1:19:24.760 was a drummer for BB King for years. Yeah, he 1:19:24.880 --> 1:19:27.320 called me up. I was looking for some singer and uh, 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:31.320 you know, checking out all those finalists on American Idol 1:19:31.360 --> 1:19:33.760 and the Voice and calling all the runner ups and 1:19:34.200 --> 1:19:36.519 calling the people I trust. And Tony called me up 1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:39.519 and he says, hey, man, it's TC Goes. I heard 1:19:39.560 --> 1:19:42.320 this singer in Memphis. He's like a little any whims. 1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:44.240 You gotta check him out. Me me, you gotta check 1:19:44.280 --> 1:19:46.960 him up. And I go, all right, man, send me 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:49.679 some links, send me his info. I'll get in touch. 1:19:49.920 --> 1:19:52.320 And uh, he sent me some YouTube links of him. 1:19:52.760 --> 1:19:56.719 Soulful had that he was imitating Bobby Womack not immediately 1:19:56.760 --> 1:19:59.680 got my attention, and uh, it seemed like a nice guy. 1:19:59.760 --> 1:20:01.839 Called him up and we decided to give him an audition. 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:04.360 We narrowed it down to three people and we told 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.360 him you got a fly to Vegas. We figured that's 1:20:06.360 --> 1:20:09.680 the cheapest, easiest flight for people, and they showed up 1:20:10.080 --> 1:20:12.360 and out of those three, we thought we'd take a 1:20:12.479 --> 1:20:14.719 chance on him. Although I was concerned about his range 1:20:15.280 --> 1:20:18.200 because we typically need a high singer just because the 1:20:18.280 --> 1:20:20.600 band so powerful. You need somebody to soar over that, 1:20:20.800 --> 1:20:23.720 you know. And he had a decent range, but not phenomenal. 1:20:23.840 --> 1:20:26.320 But once he got in the band, his range like 1:20:26.520 --> 1:20:33.360 expanded unbelievably. He's thirty five, okay, and was he professional 1:20:33.439 --> 1:20:35.880 before he had a day job. No, no, he was well, 1:20:35.960 --> 1:20:38.639 he was a barber, you know, just defeat his wife 1:20:38.720 --> 1:20:41.439 and kids. But he was a singer. You know when 1:20:41.479 --> 1:20:44.800 when Tony Coleman went to uh like BB King had 1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:47.560 passed and Tony was in charge of going to the 1:20:47.640 --> 1:20:50.200 different BB Kings and you know when they're opening the 1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:53.519 new Baby Kings. He put together the best musicians in 1:20:53.640 --> 1:20:56.240 town and you know, did a gig and so he 1:20:56.320 --> 1:20:58.000 went there and he said, you know, who's the baddest 1:20:58.040 --> 1:21:00.240 soul singer in town? And you know said Marcus. God, 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:03.320 That's how I met him. Okay, you know the world 1:21:03.400 --> 1:21:05.720 has changed the relevant of the band. Let's just say, 1:21:05.760 --> 1:21:09.600 you know, the Internet change things. And unlike in the seventies, 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:11.759 you had a major label deal, they would do marketing, 1:21:11.800 --> 1:21:14.519 everybody would know who you were. The record may happen 1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:19.759 or not. Now anybody puts out a record, it's especially 1:21:20.120 --> 1:21:23.360 a band that has had previous success. It's hard to 1:21:23.520 --> 1:21:28.040 reach the audience and uh, it's hard to get the 1:21:28.120 --> 1:21:35.920 word out. Does that depress you No, because because my 1:21:36.120 --> 1:21:37.920 my trust is not in the business or in my 1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:40.560 music or you know, I know that God's going to 1:21:40.640 --> 1:21:42.880 take care of me no matter what. I'm blessed with 1:21:42.960 --> 1:21:45.280 a great life. I play great music that I love, 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:48.080 I play with great people that I love. They do 1:21:48.240 --> 1:21:50.920 you know, I'm already overpaid, so you know, they can 1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:52.760 take half of it away, and I'm you know, they 1:21:52.800 --> 1:21:54.759 can take it all away. I know I'm gonna be Okay, 1:21:54.880 --> 1:21:57.400 that's who I am, that's who I become. So I 1:21:57.479 --> 1:21:59.679 don't think about that. I'm not depressed over the state 1:21:59.720 --> 1:22:02.080 of the industry or what the industry thinks about me. 1:22:02.400 --> 1:22:03.680 I'd love to be a big hit you know, I 1:22:03.960 --> 1:22:06.840 to be. Sometimes I think maybe it's a blessing you're not, 1:22:07.120 --> 1:22:09.040 you know, maybe they want you to be a reality 1:22:09.080 --> 1:22:10.519 show or something. I don't want to do that kind 1:22:10.560 --> 1:22:12.679 of crap, you know. I want to make great music 1:22:12.800 --> 1:22:15.080 and and have a be a class act in the industry, 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:19.960 and so far I'm doing that. Okay. Any specific goals left, Um, yeah, 1:22:19.960 --> 1:22:22.880 I want to push the envelope globally, you know. Uh. 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:25.400 I want to record with other artists. I'd love to 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:28.040 take Tower or Power and you know, do only so 1:22:28.160 --> 1:22:30.840 much oil in the ground version with sting Right. He 1:22:30.920 --> 1:22:32.719 told me one time that was one of his favorite songs. 1:22:32.760 --> 1:22:35.000 I'd like to do that you know, there's things I'd 1:22:35.040 --> 1:22:38.719 like to do. But as I say, overpaid already. Okay, 1:22:38.760 --> 1:22:41.240 we've heard a lot about you. But talking a little 1:22:41.240 --> 1:22:44.960 bit more about the business. With all this experience, what 1:22:45.200 --> 1:22:51.839 lessons have you learned? Business was, well, I don't chase trends. 1:22:53.600 --> 1:22:57.559 I stay true to myself, you know, on a musical level, 1:22:57.640 --> 1:23:01.439 on a personal level, you know, uh honest. And I 1:23:01.560 --> 1:23:03.040 tell the guys that I work with you and I said, 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:05.960 you know, live right, feel right. That's the short version. 1:23:06.280 --> 1:23:08.599 If you're living right, you'll be feeling man. If you ain't, 1:23:08.800 --> 1:23:10.559 you ain't gonna be feeling right. So I just try 1:23:10.600 --> 1:23:13.680 to live a principal life. And you know, I let 1:23:13.760 --> 1:23:16.080 the cars fall where they may. Do you have a manager, 1:23:16.160 --> 1:23:19.280 now I do? He was living a management team. Now 1:23:20.000 --> 1:23:23.000 we decided we we hired a manager. We hired Jonathan Wilson. 1:23:23.000 --> 1:23:25.439 You know, I know him pretty well, good guy. You know, 1:23:25.600 --> 1:23:28.960 fired him after two weeks because he booked a tour 1:23:29.080 --> 1:23:30.960 that we just couldn't do. You know, we're like sixty 1:23:31.240 --> 1:23:34.679 to seventy four years old, and uh he booked three weeks, 1:23:34.920 --> 1:23:40.000 uh and didn't taking the consideration, you know, the parameters 1:23:40.040 --> 1:23:42.040 that we need in order to continue doing what we're doing, 1:23:42.080 --> 1:23:43.360 and we want to do it for a long time, 1:23:43.800 --> 1:23:45.760 so we're not just gonna beat ourselves up, you know. 1:23:46.400 --> 1:23:49.840 And when my business manager, Diane Ricchi, tried to explain 1:23:49.920 --> 1:23:52.320 that to him, it took almost an hour, and then 1:23:52.360 --> 1:23:54.920 he finally yelled at her and said, you're sh and 1:23:54.960 --> 1:24:00.200 all over my Picasso. And uh. When she told me that, said, 1:24:00.200 --> 1:24:01.400 what do you want to do about this? Yes, I 1:24:01.439 --> 1:24:03.680 want to fire him, and I go, then you have 1:24:03.800 --> 1:24:06.479 my permission to do so. Okay, So Jonathan Wilson the 1:24:06.600 --> 1:24:10.680 last two weeks, then what happens? Well, then, Uh, my 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.160 tour manager who has been in the business for years, 1:24:13.400 --> 1:24:17.280 Walter Verson. He used to be bodyguard for Freddie Mercury 1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:19.559 back in the day, and I met him through Heart 1:24:19.640 --> 1:24:21.880 when I used to work with Heart, and he's been 1:24:21.960 --> 1:24:24.880 tour manager for Rio Speedwagon for years. He did a 1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:27.080 lot of work in the management team for Phil Collins. 1:24:27.360 --> 1:24:29.920 He's been around for years. He's been doing doing tour 1:24:30.000 --> 1:24:32.160 managing for us for like the last couple of years now, 1:24:32.240 --> 1:24:35.840 and then and loves us and wants to be our manager. Well, 1:24:35.880 --> 1:24:38.439 I don't want to my manager, you know, I love him. 1:24:38.800 --> 1:24:40.400 I think he's a smart guy, but I don't want 1:24:40.439 --> 1:24:43.880 him to be my manager. But my my business manager, Diane, 1:24:43.880 --> 1:24:47.000 who I trust, himplicitly says, uh, what do you want 1:24:47.040 --> 1:24:48.720 to do now Jonathan's out? What are we gonna do? 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:50.280 You know? She says, we can make it for a 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:52.880 few months, no problem. We're doing pretty good. But Ron 1:24:53.000 --> 1:24:55.439 Mesh our tour manager, and you know, the agent and 1:24:55.600 --> 1:24:58.040 me and we're all checking in. We gotta go. But 1:24:58.080 --> 1:25:00.400 it's a lot of work. And I go, I don't know, 1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:01.840 what do you want to do? I have an idea, 1:25:01.880 --> 1:25:04.479 but I don't think you're gonna like it. Okay, what's that? 1:25:04.640 --> 1:25:06.559 She goes Walter Verson. I go, I don't want him 1:25:06.560 --> 1:25:09.960 to be my manager. She was, no, how about we 1:25:10.080 --> 1:25:14.880 put him on the team. And it's a team. I said, yeah, 1:25:14.880 --> 1:25:17.800 I can try that. So that's what it is. So 1:25:17.960 --> 1:25:21.000 it's all homming along. This has really been great talking 1:25:21.040 --> 1:25:23.880 to you, Amelia. It's like we could go on forever. 1:25:24.000 --> 1:25:27.160 I could see why you're successful, You're warm, you're endearing, 1:25:27.200 --> 1:25:29.720 and you tell a good story. Well, thanks for doing this. 1:25:31.000 --> 1:25:33.160 Until next time. This is Bob Left sets