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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left That's podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Emilio Castillo, the only man who's been

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Speaker 1: in every iteration of Tower of Power. Emilia, good to

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Speaker 1: have you here, thank you, good to be here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: why was it named Tower of Power? Oh? Kind of

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Speaker 1: a boring story. You know. We were called the Motowns.

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Speaker 1: We're a little soul band in the East Bay, in

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Speaker 1: the Bay Area, and uh we wanted to get into

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Speaker 1: film or West and so we thought we'll never get

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Speaker 1: in there, you know, with these suits and razor cuts

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Speaker 1: and a name like the motown So we thought we

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Speaker 1: got to find one of those weird names, like all

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Speaker 1: those bands Quicksilver, Messenger Service and loth In hand People.

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Speaker 1: And you're like one of the few people remembers Lothor

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Speaker 1: of the hand People out of Denver. Well, his drummer

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Speaker 1: used to record from. Okay, there you have it. But

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Speaker 1: we we were on a break out a little studio

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Speaker 1: and Hayward and Uh, I was sitting at the desk

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Speaker 1: of the owner and there was like a three page

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Speaker 1: list of all weird band names. Really, and I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at the names, I'm going there, there's no way we

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Speaker 1: can't be this, we can't. But then I saw the

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Speaker 1: name Tower of Power and they go, hey, guys, what

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Speaker 1: about Tower of Power? They go, yeah, yeah, that's us,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that was it. Well that's really funny

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Speaker 1: because I thought it was, you know, such a large

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Speaker 1: band with all the different horns, etcetera. And therefore it

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Speaker 1: was called Tower of Power. I think that's what they

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Speaker 1: thought about the name, you know. Okay, so when it

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Speaker 1: was the Motown's was the goal too? Was it like

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Speaker 1: a band that played it, you know in bars? Because

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Speaker 1: obviously named like the Motime, you're playing motimes, you're playing

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Speaker 1: R and B music, or it was the goal always

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Speaker 1: to become a big success, get a recording deal. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'd be lying if I told you I even thought

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Speaker 1: that deep. You know, we just loved playing music, particularly

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Speaker 1: sold music. We played nightclubs, bars, after hours joints, a

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Speaker 1: lot of after hours joints where you had to not

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Speaker 1: only play, but entertained because there was no dancing in

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Speaker 1: the Bay Area between two and six am. It was

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Speaker 1: a blue law. Okay. Just so uh from different days,

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Speaker 1: When was the last time you get a drink? You

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Speaker 1: got you stopped drinking? Are two from two to six am.

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Speaker 1: They went into the parking lot and drank and then

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Speaker 1: came in and drank cokes while you were playing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but you could play, but they couldn't dance, and they

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Speaker 1: couldn't drink a couldn't dance, Yeah, okay, I mean New

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Speaker 1: York is a really late night town. L A is

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Speaker 1: a really early town. If that era in the early

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Speaker 1: seventies was the Bay Area that late at night of

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Speaker 1: a town. Yeah, this is actually uh you know, late sixties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know, there was two cities in the Bay

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Speaker 1: Area where you could dance at those times. One was Fremont, California,

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Speaker 1: where we lived, and the other one was all Benny, California,

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the East Bay. And you

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Speaker 1: could actually dance there. And so they were always looking

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Speaker 1: for really good dance bands bands and you could dance

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Speaker 1: good too. And it would go through the whole Bay Area.

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Speaker 1: You know, people in San Francisco, Palo Altos and say,

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Speaker 1: they say, oh, there's a good band to dance too,

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Speaker 1: you know, and at Little Richard's in Fremont, and we

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Speaker 1: would we would play be four hours in San Jose,

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Speaker 1: pack everything up, drive there at two thirty in the morning.

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Speaker 1: We'd be set up and ready to go. We'd hit

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Speaker 1: it and people would come in and they would just

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Speaker 1: be dancing. There was a wrought iron railing around this

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Speaker 1: little dance for it. They'd be bent over it like

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Speaker 1: this man just dancing, you know. And then they go

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Speaker 1: out on the brakes and drink and come back and

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Speaker 1: dance some more. Okay, how big was that club? You

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Speaker 1: a small club? I mean, how many people would be

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Speaker 1: dancing on the floor. I don't think you could fit

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Speaker 1: fifty people, Okay, That's why I was asking the size

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Speaker 1: of that. Okay, But the club was packed besides the

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Speaker 1: dance flo okay, just so I know, and that in

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Speaker 1: those two clubs we could dance becauld. They also serve

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Speaker 1: alcohol between just up until two, up till two and

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Speaker 1: then up. And what happens at six am they opened up.

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Speaker 1: They took this plywood off the bar and they opened

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Speaker 1: up the bar, and we continue playing for two more hours,

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Speaker 1: and inevitably we'd finish around seven, you know, and the

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Speaker 1: borrower would come up and you put a twenty dollar

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Speaker 1: bill on my B three and he'd say, play another set,

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Speaker 1: and we would take it. Wow. Okay, at the time,

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Speaker 1: you were the boat towns. How many nights a week

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Speaker 1: we are playing? Well, you know, we used to play

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Speaker 1: weekends when we were kids, and then you graduated high

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Speaker 1: school and then we played whenever we could. Obviously we

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Speaker 1: were doing before hours gigs to you know, and but

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Speaker 1: you know we weren't like really popular with like the

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Speaker 1: high schools and stuff because we got into nightclubs early.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we're playing around the bar of black

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Speaker 1: nightclubs regularly, just those kind of after hours joints. There

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Speaker 1: was Soul City and Hayward. There was a Lucky thirteen

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Speaker 1: in Albany, there was Frenchies were sly Stone, so they

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Speaker 1: got his name. You know, all these clubs and we

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Speaker 1: played a lot, okay, and then you change your name

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Speaker 1: to Tower of Power. Did you get into the film

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Speaker 1: or west? Well, what happened is, you know, I met

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Speaker 1: this guy Doc, that's my songwriting partner, Stephen Coopka, and

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Speaker 1: uh he was the first. Why he wasn't yet he

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Speaker 1: was Steve just a jump ahead. Why did he turn

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Speaker 1: into Doc? Because his father was kind of a famous

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Speaker 1: doctor that got caught in this scandal in Berkeley. And

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Speaker 1: our singer Rick Stevens, Uh, he's the guy that went

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Speaker 1: to jail for thirty seven years. He found out about

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Speaker 1: Doc's dad and said, oh man, we gotta call you

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Speaker 1: the doctor. And then the guy taking the photos of

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Speaker 1: our first record, So yeah, we'll call him the funky Doctor.

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Speaker 1: And then over the years he just became Doc. Everybody

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Speaker 1: calls him. Okay, So how did the father get in trouble? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a you know, sortad story. I think

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Speaker 1: he had a mistress and that kind of embarrassment to

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Speaker 1: the family. Okay, And then talk about the thirty seven

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Speaker 1: years up up the river while we're there. Well, that

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Speaker 1: was my lead singer, Rick Stevens. He was our second

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Speaker 1: lead singer, and I fired him for heroin addiction, and

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Speaker 1: about four years later he went on a drug run

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Speaker 1: and killed three people and went to prison for three

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Speaker 1: or seven years. They pinned it all on us, although

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Speaker 1: he'd been out of the band four years, you know, right.

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Speaker 1: And so just because this an interesting fact, how many

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Speaker 1: lead singers this Tower of Power had, you know, I

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Speaker 1: lost count? Okay, let's go back to fillmore West. So

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Speaker 1: what happened? So Doc is the first hippie I ever met,

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Speaker 1: and he played the baritone sacks. You know, and we

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Speaker 1: were trying to add a horn, uh horn with somebody

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Speaker 1: to the section. We thought we wanted a trombone player,

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Speaker 1: but you know, they weren't working out. They were really square.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't do the steps, you know. And so we're

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Speaker 1: doing this gig and I met Doc and he says,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got a good band, but your horn

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Speaker 1: section needs some bottom. And by the way I played

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Speaker 1: the berry Sack, I invited him to come, and you know,

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Speaker 1: all the guys like when he gets there, hippie guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they're all like, you know, what's this,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I go, uh, guy's a quirky guy,

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Speaker 1: plays the barry, you know. So he comes in and

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Speaker 1: immediately as soon as we heard the sound, we loved it,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so he's in the band for a while,

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Speaker 1: and he really likes what I do with all the

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Speaker 1: songs because I used to change all these soul tunes

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Speaker 1: around to make them sort of unique, our own. And

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Speaker 1: he says to me, you know, why don't we write

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Speaker 1: our own songs? That we started writing first song we

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Speaker 1: ever wrote, You're still a young Man. And then, you know,

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Speaker 1: we knew it was a dead end playing the stuff

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Speaker 1: we were doing so, you know, all those clubs, so

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Speaker 1: everybody was going to the Film or West and Bill

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Speaker 1: Graham had started that the two record labels. There was

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Speaker 1: Film More Records in San Francisco Records, and everybody was

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Speaker 1: trying to get on there. So we submitted a tape

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Speaker 1: and to our surprise, he wanted to scid us. I

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Speaker 1: think David Rubinson had a lot to do it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: a little bit slower. Okay, when you change your name

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Speaker 1: to Tower of Power, have you already submitted the tape? Uh?

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Speaker 1: It was the writer around the same time actually, which

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Speaker 1: changed your name the Tower of Power, and then you

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Speaker 1: know we're recording this. We we we started writing songs

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Speaker 1: and we recorded a few of them, but we recorded

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Speaker 1: a lot of covers, but there covers our own sort

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Speaker 1: of version, like Joe Cocker. Would we arrange the song? Right? Okay,

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Speaker 1: how did you hook up with David Rubinson? Well, he

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Speaker 1: was the guy that Bill Graham brought out to the

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Speaker 1: Bay Area. He was the you know, the big producer.

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Speaker 1: He had produced Moby Grape and some others, and and

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Speaker 1: they went into business and started these two record companies. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you submitted the tape that you had made independently.

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Speaker 1: David was not involved producing. It was not the thing

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Speaker 1: is We got uh a slot on the Tuesday Night auditions.

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Speaker 1: It was in November. Okay, this is like early in

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Speaker 1: the year. This is nine, and we had we had

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Speaker 1: gotten busted for being underage for drinking because we're in

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Speaker 1: one of those after hours joints and the bar opened

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Speaker 1: and my trumpet player got a drink. The ABC busted us.

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Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, we had no gigs and

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Speaker 1: we're aiming for this gig in November at the film

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Speaker 1: wore and that's like our only hope. Okay, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know the film or reachs. I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the East Coast. Tuesday Night was kind of like the

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Speaker 1: Troubadoor in l A or What Night. How did it worked? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: audition They would have like five bands and then they

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Speaker 1: all wanted to get signed to Bill Grahams. But it

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Speaker 1: was open to the audience. Oh yeah, I was packed. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you're how did you get that gig? You like

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Speaker 1: submitted your request, you know. We went there and we said,

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Speaker 1: you know, we want an audition, and they said, okay,

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Speaker 1: we got a slot novem whatever. Okay, Well, did you

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Speaker 1: have a manager? At this point? You were effectively the manager.

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Speaker 1: We just didn't have a manager. I was the leader.

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Speaker 1: That's why who you know, they always had someone who

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Speaker 1: was making the connection. Usually it's the drummer. So I'm surprised. Well,

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Speaker 1: my brother was a drumm and he was older, and

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Speaker 1: so he was the leader first. But my dad made

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Speaker 1: me be the leader. Your dad made you be the leader.

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Speaker 1: He said, you know, you need to be. When I

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Speaker 1: was younger, you know, he said you need to be

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Speaker 1: the leader, and I go, I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: the leader. Jack's older, you know, he's the leader. And

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Speaker 1: he goes, no, no, you're the one. You're the one

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Speaker 1: you need to be. He forced me. Okay, two things.

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Speaker 1: How much older as your brother? Mons? Okay, so he's

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Speaker 1: really not that much older. Well you don't think like

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Speaker 1: that when you're a kid, I know, but people talk

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Speaker 1: about older brothers sometimes ten years. The next thing, what

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Speaker 1: did your father see in you that he knew you

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Speaker 1: had to be the leader? He saw musical talent, he

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Speaker 1: saw a creativeness, and he saw just a passion for it.

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Speaker 1: I mean when I started the band, you know, life

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Speaker 1: change for me completely, and my focus was that band

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Speaker 1: and it's been that way for fifty years. Okay, we'll

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Speaker 1: get back to that, but now you have this Thursday

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Speaker 1: night audition, continue from Tuesday. Excuse me, Tuesday night audition

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Speaker 1: continue from there. So you know we have been busted.

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Speaker 1: So we're just like that audition is all we got. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we had made the tape and we got a friend

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Speaker 1: of ours. He edited it and we submitted it to

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Speaker 1: the film More. OK a little bit slower. Where did

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Speaker 1: you make that tape? Who produced that tape? What happened

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Speaker 1: at the after hours joint? Really? Yeah? You know, you

221
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Speaker 1: just taped our sets and then a friend of ours

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Speaker 1: who was a drummer for quite a famous band called

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Speaker 1: the Loading Zone. They were they were already playing the

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Speaker 1: film or West, and he edited them. He said, you know,

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Speaker 1: let me take care of these edit. We were like,

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Speaker 1: what's edit? We didn't even know what that was. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember how many songs were on that original tape?

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Speaker 1: For how long it was? So when we gave it

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Speaker 1: to them, there was probably Yeah, we had a lot

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Speaker 1: of missions. Okay, original though, right right? I realized, but

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Speaker 1: you know today demo tapes like you know, three songs,

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Speaker 1: but there was like ten Originals. Okay, so you get

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Speaker 1: the Tuesday night slot. What happens, Well, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: the we're the closer for some reason. And uh, there's

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Speaker 1: like five bands, and any of those bands we ever

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Speaker 1: heard of since I remember Neil Sean was in one

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Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, yeah, and I remember real clearly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And but they were all the same, you know. They

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Speaker 1: were like playing in A and E and you know,

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Speaker 1: had guitars and you know, and they were like rock bands,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then we come out and we got

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Speaker 1: all these horns, and we got this short, little black singer,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they took one look at us, they

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Speaker 1: turned around, they started walking out, and we hit with

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Speaker 1: the a song called Opened the Door by James Brown,

246
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Speaker 1: but a little bit and it was like somebody said

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Speaker 1: about face. Man, they all just turn around, start walking back,

248
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Speaker 1: and I see this head stick out of this place

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Speaker 1: in the back, and that was Bill Graham. He always

250
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Speaker 1: liked rhythm, he always like horns, and he was like

251
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Speaker 1: he checked it out, you know. But we were at

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Speaker 1: the end of our rope and I was going back

253
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Speaker 1: to Detroit my parents and moved back there, and I

254
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Speaker 1: told the guys, I'm going back for the holidays. If

255
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Speaker 1: nothing happens, I'm not coming back. We were starving because

256
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Speaker 1: we couldn't work because we busted, you know, and so, uh,

257
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Speaker 1: I didn't think nothing was going to happen. I didn't honestly,

258
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Speaker 1: you know. I flew home. Doc calls me about three

259
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Speaker 1: days later. He says, you gotta come back, you gotta

260
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Speaker 1: come back. He dug it. He dug it, and I go,

261
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Speaker 1: who dug it? And he goes Bill Graham. He wants

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Speaker 1: to sign us. Well, you know, we didn't know. I said,

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Speaker 1: hock the organ and send me a ticket. I had

264
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Speaker 1: this little box organ, you know, I didn't like using it.

265
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Speaker 1: He hocked it, sent me an airplane ticket. And then

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Speaker 1: we went to the loading zones manager who really liked us,

267
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Speaker 1: but never thought in a million years we would get

268
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Speaker 1: you know, his his singer Linda Tillery was trying to

269
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Speaker 1: get signed to her bands. We linded Divine and uh.

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Speaker 1: We went to Ron Barnett. We said, you know, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Man. He gave us his country.

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Speaker 1: We had the contract, and he says, you know, he's

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Speaker 1: kind of stunned. And so he comes out to visit

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Speaker 1: with the band and he says, how many people are

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Speaker 1: in the band at that point there was nine? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so okay, go back to Barnett. So he comes out.

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Speaker 1: He says, you know, if I manage you, something needs

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Speaker 1: to be understood. Whatever I tell you to do, you

279
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Speaker 1: have to do it. And we all go, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: manage us, like we couldn't believe it, you know. And

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Speaker 1: uh and he says, first of all, this record deal,

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Speaker 1: he goes, it's it's not a very good record deal,

283
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Speaker 1: but you have no bargaining power whatsoever, and you're lucky

284
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Speaker 1: to have it. I can't even believe that he's offered

285
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Speaker 1: it to you. He said, there are a few changes

286
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot for, and he got about three of them.

287
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Speaker 1: You know. Was there a lawyer involved? I don't think

288
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Speaker 1: there was. Actually think he went to Bill because he

289
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 1: knew Bill because he dealt with the loadings, right, and

290
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Speaker 1: he just said, look, you know, these guys are just kids,

291
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Speaker 1: but this right here, you know, and uh and he

292
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Speaker 1: got that this this stuff changed and then uh what

293
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Speaker 1: happened is, you know, David Rubinson then started dealing with

294
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Speaker 1: us because he was the producer, right, Okay, I hear

295
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Speaker 1: from Rubenson all the time, and he's in France, right right, Yeah,

296
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Speaker 1: and he's always a big health expert because he had

297
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Speaker 1: a heart attack whatever. But I'll let him tell his

298
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Speaker 1: own story. But he was known for being difficult and autocratic.

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Speaker 1: Was that your experience, Yes, it was, but you know,

300
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Speaker 1: I'll say this. You know he uh, he had the

301
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Speaker 1: foresight to want to sign a young unknown band. He

302
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Speaker 1: saw the raw talent and he's the one. He he

303
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Speaker 1: didn't like my brother the way he played drums, and

304
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Speaker 1: he said, we're gonna bring in a studio drummer. We

305
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Speaker 1: were like, you know what, you know, we're a band.

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Speaker 1: What are you talking about? You know, it almost broke

307
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Speaker 1: up the band, actually, you know, yeah, I know that's

308
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Speaker 1: a big thing. You got a member of a band.

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Speaker 1: He frequently breaks up the band. Yeah. Yeah. So but

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Speaker 1: you know, my brother at the last minute decided he

311
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Speaker 1: was going to go back to Detroit and view with

312
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Speaker 1: my parents and he said, I want you to stay

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Speaker 1: at and what I don't I don't think the band

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Speaker 1: should lose the contract because I was gonna take my

315
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Speaker 1: brother and just start over. And uh, and so I

316
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Speaker 1: stayed and then um, I had seen David Garibaldi, our

317
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Speaker 1: drummer today. He was filling in for the opening for

318
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Speaker 1: the Befour Hours band and uh I said this, this

319
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Speaker 1: is the drummer for us, and was he good enough

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Speaker 1: for Rubenson and Rubens and still used the studio. Soon

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Speaker 1: as soon as David Garibaldi came into Man Plus, I

322
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Speaker 1: brought this guy, Willie Fulton, the stinging guitar player that

323
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Speaker 1: played like Steve Cropper even more so it's just great

324
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Speaker 1: and so there was never no more discussion about changing nobody. Okay,

325
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Speaker 1: so you make that record, how long does it take? Okay,

326
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Speaker 1: you play in October? When is the deal signed? When

327
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: do you go in the studio? Are we signed? You know,

328
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Speaker 1: within a probably within a month after that, you know,

329
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Speaker 1: and uh and then they called us. It was actually interesting.

330
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Speaker 1: It was the day that the Stones played Altamont. We

331
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Speaker 1: lived near Altimont, you know, and so we were all

332
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Speaker 1: we were just about to walk out the door to

333
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Speaker 1: go to Altamont and we get this phone call from uh.

334
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Speaker 1: We used to call h Mutton, Jeff. They were like Rubens,

335
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Speaker 1: and they go, we want you in the studio at

336
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Speaker 1: one o'clock, you know, going over to Pacific Recording at

337
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 1: San Mateo and We're like, what's happening. We want to

338
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 1: see how you record? And it took us in and

339
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 1: uh and we did. You know, we recorded a few songs.

340
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Speaker 1: My brother was still in the band. It was that's

341
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 1: what made him decide. Yeah, you know, he didn't want

342
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 1: my brother in the band or the guitar player, you know.

343
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Speaker 1: And uh, but then you know, once we got David

344
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Speaker 1: Garibaldi and plus we're way you're in the studio, then

345
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 1: you sure what happened at Altamont? What goes through your head? Oh? Yeah,

346
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 1: we got home that day and we're like, man, you know,

347
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 1: the the guy got murdered and I was like riot

348
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: and the Hells Angels went crazy. And you know, years

349
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,080
Speaker 1: later we knew the girl that was with the guy

350
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 1: that got murdered. Oh yeah, yeah, Judy Nelson, never forget it. Wow,

351
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,880
Speaker 1: that's quite a connection. So you'd go in the studio

352
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 1: that day, David's unhappy with a couple of players. What

353
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Speaker 1: happens next, Well, we get David Garibaldi and Willie Fulton

354
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Speaker 1: and we're getting hot in the Bay Area. I mean,

355
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 1: so now you can work again. Well, yeah, what what

356
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 1: happened is that Bill Graham had this agency also, so

357
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: he not only signed us to the record deal, he

358
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 1: signed us to songwriting deal, publishing deal, booking agent, and management.

359
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: And he had an agency, the Millard Agent, and Terry

360
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,239
Speaker 1: Persons and Joe Bailey were there, and so they call up.

361
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Speaker 1: You know, first of all, we informed them that we

362
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 1: can no longer play these clubs, so you know, they

363
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 1: can't book us, and none of the high school's watered

364
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 1: us because they had no idea who we were. We

365
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 1: hadn't played so long. And so he calls up and

366
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 1: he says, uh, what do you think about going to

367
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: Mexico City for fourteen days? And then we go are

368
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 1: you kidding? You know? And you'll play ten days and

369
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: you'll be off four We go great, you know, and uh,

370
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 1: they were trying to bring Santana down there, and they

371
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 1: had banned concerts for the last two years because of

372
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 1: a riot that happened when The Dead played there. But

373
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,639
Speaker 1: they wanted to bring Santana down there, and so they

374
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,879
Speaker 1: were like testing the waters with some fillmore groups. So

375
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 1: they sent us in this band named Kimberly, and we

376
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,359
Speaker 1: went down there. We played four days and there was

377
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,440
Speaker 1: like federalities surrounding the joint, like every night, so nobody

378
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 1: came in. We're playing like three people, you know, and

379
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: after four days the thing shut down. There was this

380
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 1: guy Mario was the promoter, and he was poling up

381
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 1: with uh, Jim Morrison. He was down there pardon with

382
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: this guy Maso. And so after four days he says,

383
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,959
Speaker 1: that's it, it's not gonna work. So we had like

384
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 1: ten days off. Jim Morrison's down there and think they're

385
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 1: taking us to like press parties that we're jamming with

386
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: this band called the Love Army, and you know, it

387
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: was a very memorable time. I remember I got up

388
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: one morning, I walked out of the hotel sweets and paradoor.

389
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 1: I look up and Jim Morrison is hanging over the

390
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,960
Speaker 1: balcony and he's throwing up. And we would see him

391
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: and like, you know, nine thirty in the morning at breakfast,

392
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: and he'd be so nice and so together, you know,

393
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,239
Speaker 1: but he'd already be hitting the screw divers, you know.

394
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 1: And then at night we go sit in with the

395
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: Love Army and he said, you know, let's play some

396
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 1: good old American rock and roll, you know, and he

397
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 1: swing his microphone and you know, I remember he caught

398
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 1: the symbol stand and pulled it over and acted over.

399
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: It was really a scene, you know, but very memorable time.

400
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 1: That was our first tour ever. Okay, then you get back,

401
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,159
Speaker 1: what's up with working and recording? Well, we make the

402
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 1: record and it's a it's a regional hit. Okay, you

403
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 1: make you make the record. How long does they take

404
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: you to make the record? Two weeks? Okay? Why is

405
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 1: the first album on Atlantic and the subsequent albums on

406
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Because after we made the record, we got

407
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: pretty hot in the Bay Area. So then they send

408
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: this out on tour and we get out there and

409
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: like all bands, you know, we're all disappointed because we

410
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: go and there's no records nowhere, and Bill grahams we

411
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 1: know this now. We didn't know it then, but Bill

412
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: Graham's calling on me and heard again and say, you know,

413
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: what's going on? There's no records in the stores, and

414
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, but we come back all discouraged. And this

415
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 1: is when we had we had fired the first singer

416
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,919
Speaker 1: and we had brought in Rick Stevens and he's, you know,

417
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: now he's in the band officially. A lot of drugs

418
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 1: are going on, and he's saying, you know, I know

419
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: a guy up there, and you know he fought Bill

420
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: Graham and Da Dada and he managed Slide and he

421
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: managed Buddy Miles and blah blah blah, and like fools

422
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: we went and we could front of Bill and a

423
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 1: really really stupid way. Okay, just with that guy or

424
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: just by yourself that who was that guy, Louis Gordon. Yeah,

425
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: he went to jail. Shortly after that, they confronted Bill.

426
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: Out of that place. Bill. Bill wanted to actually fight

427
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: Rick Stevens in the gutter. He goes right now in

428
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: the gutter. Kieva Christo was Bill's lawyer. He had his

429
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: arms round No Bill, no, you know, we walked out.

430
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: I remember we got around the corner was right across

431
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: from the film or West. We're around the corner from

432
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 1: the film or West. I said, I looked at those

433
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: guys that go, we made a huge mistake today, huge

434
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: And let's go up to Louise House around a lot

435
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: of coke and drinking and chicks. And but then um

436
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: me and Doc we started to go see Bill on

437
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: Mondays when we were in town. Well, we just to

438
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 1: be clear, how did it at the meeting end? Not good?

439
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 1: A lot of cursing and yelling. You know that's your problem,

440
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: you know that kind of stuff. Okay, but he didn't

441
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 1: say I'm done. He no, he didn't have to say

442
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: I'm done. He had our contract, he owned us. We

443
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 1: didn't know this at the time, you know, but eventually

444
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: Doc and I would go see him on Mondays and

445
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: we'd go in and we say, you know, Bill, you know,

446
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: we're so sorry with the way we handle this thing,

447
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: and we just we really do to make another record

448
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: and the band's bigger than ever, we're doing better than ever.

449
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,719
Speaker 1: We gotta make a record, and you got the record

450
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 1: contract and he's and he'd start talking real soft. He say,

451
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, guys, is I know you made a mistake.

452
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: I understand you know you're young. Blah blah blah. He goes,

453
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: and you know I have this contract on you. He goes,

454
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: you know what I managed Santana. I didn't have a

455
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: contract on him. And he standing up, goes and he

456
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: screwed me, you know, And he started yelling at us

457
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 1: and pointing us finger and we'd be in the chair

458
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: and he had an office that had glass all around it,

459
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,959
Speaker 1: and so there's like thirteen secretaries out there watching us,

460
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, and we did this like you know, four

461
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: or five six times. You go in and the girls

462
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: will see us walking in and they got good luck

463
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: that you know. So okay, Santana screwed him. So what

464
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: did he say? He was gonna do nothing. Nothing, Nothing

465
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: got resolved. And so finally what happened is that guy,

466
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: that cocaine dealer manager went to jail, and we got

467
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: Ron Burnett back. We went to Ron, told him what happened.

468
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 1: He went to Bill and he goes, all right, Bill,

469
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: what do you want? You know? And Bill just screamed

470
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 1: for about forty minutes and then he goes, I want

471
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 1: forty dollars and two points, you know. And Ron went

472
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: to Warners. Everybody was going to Warners and they wanted

473
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: us bad. And Warners paid that part to Bill. Okay,

474
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: how long did he pay for? How many albums did

475
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: you get two points on in the deal? The record deal?

476
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: So for the whole deal he got two points? Okay.

477
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: So who was the person at Warner Brothers who was interested?

478
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: Who did you deal with? Well, you know, Joe Smith,

479
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: Mo Austin. Uh, there wasn't a specific person. I mean

480
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: Joe who unfortunately recently passed. He tells a story about

481
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: going up and meeting the Grateful Dead. Was there anybody

482
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: who came up to see you? Well? Uh, we got

483
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: to know all of them shortly after that. Once they

484
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,719
Speaker 1: signed this, we did bumps that he was. They had

485
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: a press party out at Mickey Heart's Ranch. Uh, and

486
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: we were out there, and you know, Joe Smith was there,

487
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: and most was there. Carl Um. Oh, god, I can

488
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: see him. What's his last name? But it will come

489
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: to me, Yeah, big guy. And plus we all went

490
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: on tour with those guys. They took this tour out

491
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: to Europe called the Warner Brothers Music Show with six bands,

492
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: and we were one of the bands. Little Feet, Graham,

493
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: Central Station, the Doobie Brothers, Montrose, and a group called Bonnaroo.

494
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: That would be quite a tour, Okay, So what was

495
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: it like beyond that tour? Oh, it was a decadent tour. Yeah,

496
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun. We got really close

497
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: with Little Feet because we had already done one of

498
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: their records. We did this song called Spanish Moon, and

499
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: so we used to sit in with them and do

500
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: the horn parts and we got real close with that. Okay.

501
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: That begs a question, what's your take on Lowell? George

502
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: phenomenal can say? Really, I mean, you know, I just

503
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: he knew how not to overplay. There's a better way

504
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: to say that. But you know, there's certain records. We

505
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: just put a little taste guitar and he had the

506
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: sweetest voiced Yeah, unbelievable. Okay, So Bump City. I heard

507
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: bump City because that was in the era when uh

508
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: they put out the two first for two dollars, and

509
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: it was on one of them. That's how I discovered

510
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: bump City, Bump Bump bump. Okay, So let's go back

511
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: a chapter. They're nine guys in the band. Well by

512
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: then it was eleven. Okay, you can't make any money? Yeah,

513
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: Well that's why I tell the kids today. They say,

514
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: you know, any advice, I go, yeah, I start a trio.

515
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: I mean, how are you staying alive with eleven people

516
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: in the band. Well, it's a mood point because whatever

517
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: money we were making, we're wasting it. You know, we're nuts,

518
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: completely crazy. For the first twenty years, we made every

519
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: mistake known to men. Okay, other than the lead singers,

520
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: how many other musicians went in and out? Or was

521
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: it generally steady. I can't even cut the singers. I'm

522
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: not going to cut all those musicians. What I'm trying

523
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: to say is in your hey in that Warner Brothers heyday, Okay,

524
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: was the band relatively stable? Well, I mean we were staying.

525
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: You know, it was always like, you know, Doc and

526
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: me and Rocco the bass player. Rocco has been with

527
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: me since I was fourteen, and he was all the

528
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: way up until last year. You know what fired him?

529
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: I fired him for eight years in the early eighties

530
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: for her own addiction, but brought him back. I mean

531
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: that begs a question on the contract. Whose names were

532
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: on the contract? Everybody or just the three of you

533
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: or everybody? Everybody? Yes, okay, so somebody leaves, you have

534
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: to have a whole legal thing with getting him out

535
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: of the band. Yeah, it wasn't a big deal, you know,

536
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: they just we just informed the record company and things

537
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: went on. You know. Okay, did you ever get any royalties? Yeah?

538
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: I still get Okay, Okay, how do you split up

539
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: the royalties? Oh? I don't split them up. Well, you know,

540
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: over the years we went and we said you got

541
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: to send it to him direct, you know. Okay, but

542
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: if they play it on the record, everybody who everybody

543
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: was in the band at that time still gets a piece,

544
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: assuming there is a piece. Yeah, I mean there's only

545
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: there's only a piece on the Warners records. You know,

546
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: we went to CBS. They give us a ton of

547
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: money over there. We never recouped there, you know, so

548
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: there's not a bunch of royalties coming in to be

549
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: split up. You know. Well, it's just kind of funny.

550
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: It's you know, very easy going as opposed to you know,

551
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: so many cutthroats stories. I mean, we've got our cutthroat stories.

552
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: I guess I don't think of one off the top

553
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: of my head. But okay, so Bump City hits and

554
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: I certainly remember. I guess it was seventy five. You know,

555
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: there's only so much oil in the ground. Yeah. Man,

556
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorites. Okay, tell me the story

557
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: of how that came together. Well to Doc. Doc is

558
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: the quirky one, you know, and so we were by

559
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: then we had written a lot of songs, and he

560
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: comes to me. It was during the time in the

561
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: Bay Area was one of the first oil spills, and

562
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: so they had this emergency thing all over the news

563
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: people are. You know, they're showing all these films with

564
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: people washing seagulls because they're covered with oil, you know,

565
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: they're dying and uh, and we were watching it and

566
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: Doc says to me, you know, we should write a

567
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: song called only so Much Oil in the Ground. And

568
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: I go, what's that? What do you mean? You know?

569
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: And he was, you know, like, what are we gonna

570
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: do when we run out oil? So what happened? And

571
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: then he tells me the story that when he was

572
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: a kid. I guess he was acting out and they

573
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: sent him to the principal's office and he goes in

574
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: there and the guy says, Stephen, is there anything troubling you?

575
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: And Doc waits a minute and then he goes, uh, yeah,

576
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: what's that, Stephen? And he says, what are we gonna

577
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: do when we run out of oil? I went to

578
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: high school. Principal said, go back to class. Yeah, you know.

579
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: But so we wrote that song. But I remember Raven

580
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: to my manager Brown Barnette at the time. I said, man,

581
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: this is the best song we ever did. It's hippist lyric,

582
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,479
Speaker 1: the hippist rhythm section, it's the classiest horn section, the

583
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: baddest organ soul, the baddest tenor sol the vocals off

584
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: the chart. I just I thought it was the best

585
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: record we ever made, you know, and did nothing. Well

586
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting because yes it did nothing on the charts,

587
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: but I could never get over it. I can tell

588
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: you where I was playing it and you know, being

589
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: into it because it was funny. I didn't think you

590
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: said it was true, but it was also kind of

591
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: funny the way the lyric was, Well, what's the story

592
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: with bump City? How did that come together? Well? Uh,

593
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: there used to be a song called the Bump and

594
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: uh and you know, as I say, when we played,

595
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: the dance floor was always full, so people will be

596
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: out there bumping, you know. And so we had this phrase.

597
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's like he did you go to the club?

598
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: That's that man? It was bump city. You know. It

599
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: was just a phrase that we used. And then we thought, well,

600
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: I mean that that's pretty much all we did. We

601
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: hung out at the nightclub, you know, not only playing,

602
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: but even on off nights. You know, we'd sleep in

603
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: really late because we've been partying all night, and then

604
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: we get up and go eat, and then we go

605
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: down to the nightclub and hang out with all our friends,

606
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: and so we thought we should write a song and

607
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: call it down to the nightclub and then you know,

608
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: well this nightclub will be called Bump City, you know,

609
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: and it's a phrase like bump de bump de bump.

610
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: That's what we do. Okay. So, how many albums on

611
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers six six and how does that ten year

612
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: go from your viewpoint? I'm not sure what you mean

613
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: by that. I mean, was it all a good experience

614
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: with Warner Brothers? Yes, excellent experience. They were great, they

615
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: loved us. We wanted to resign, and they gave us

616
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: a good offer. But this is when if you read

617
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: that book Hitman, remember like they talked about how yet

618
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: Nikoff would just he would just sign X just to

619
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: piss off Joe Smith. Yeah, it was James Taylor went

620
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: to you know. So they gave us so much money

621
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: we couldn't say no, you know, and so we we

622
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: take the money and we get signed. And then they

623
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: got no clue because they never wanted us to the

624
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: first place, and they had no clue what to do us.

625
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: They looked at us as a problem. You're you're already

626
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: lost if you look at something that way, you know,

627
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: and so there we gave us all this money, but

628
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: you know it was not a good relationship, and pretty

629
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: sure it just deteriorated. Okay, how demoral is it was?

630
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: It was difficult, you know, I know that drugs had

631
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: a lot to do with it for us. You know,

632
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it's all their fault, man, you know,

633
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: we we we dug our own grave, you know, but

634
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: we were still making great music and uh, you know,

635
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: they just weren't the company for us. What can I say? Okay,

636
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: how many records were the CBS we did? Uh three?

637
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: It was a sixth album deal, but we only did three.

638
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: We did uh another stopping us now and we came

639
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: to play and back to Opland. Okay, but then then

640
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: the dal Ns that kind of leaves you kind of know.

641
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: We asked them to let us out. That's what happened.

642
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: And and I had been talking to Ted Templement over

643
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, and Ted was you know, we knew him

644
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: and he loved Garibaldi. We had gotten Garibaldi back in

645
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: the band. Garibaldi left the band four times always because

646
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: we were just two nuts. Couldn't take watching us kill ourselves,

647
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, So but he had come back because he

648
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: couldn't stand being away either, so he had come back.

649
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: And we're playing better than ever, you know. So I

650
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: go to see Ted Templement, you know, and I say, man,

651
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, the band is like better than ever and

652
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: we're stuck over there and you know, and he says,

653
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: you get out of that deal and I will sign you.

654
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: And at the time, Jeff Wald was my manager. Jeff

655
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: Well Helen Ready's, uh, very intense guy. I like Jeff Wald.

656
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: We got along well. And uh, he had a big meeting.

657
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: In a matter of fact, the meeting was the day

658
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: that they signed Chicago. We signed them, and the meeting

659
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: was are they going to keep us? So let us

660
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: go what are they gonna do? You know? And we

661
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: went in there and remember Jeff Wald, he said, uh,

662
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: when you go in this meeting, is yet Nikos is

663
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: gonna be there, Lunvall is gonna be there. He goes,

664
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: but don't pay no attention to him. He was the

665
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: only thing that matters is this guy named Jack Craig. Oh,

666
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: and he says he's got a n a hole about

667
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: this big and he goes, uh, he goes, if he

668
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: if he wants you you're gonna stay, and if you don't,

669
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: you're not. He goes, and and I remember it was

670
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: Bruce Lnvall that I really appealed to because he he

671
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: was a solid guy. And we're at the table and

672
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: they had already made the decision to resign Chicago. I

673
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: remember Robert Lamb came out and offered me a bunch

674
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: of blow and it's like party, you know. Then I

675
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: go in and I'm sitting there with all these executives

676
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: and my manager at Jeff Walden and Uh. I looked

677
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: down at Bruce lonvill and I go, if you guys

678
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: are gonna let us record, have the decency to let

679
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: us go. And I remember he looked at me. He

680
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: was merely, I need to tell you something. He goes,

681
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: No matter what decision we make today, it has nothing

682
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: to do with your music. You got a great band,

683
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about this and get back to you.

684
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: And they released us, and so we went right to Warners,

685
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: and Warners gave us a bunch of money and ten

686
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: Temple and said he would sign us. But then he

687
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: started having problems. You know, he was messing around with

688
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: Nicolette Larson and he had just done minute by minute

689
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: and all those big Dooms records, and he went on

690
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: the road with the Doobies. He's playing because Nicolette was

691
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: singing background and she was opening the show. And he's

692
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: out there and he's doing a lot of drugs and

693
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: stuff and he won't return my calls, and so we're

694
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: just like, you know, we're stuck. We got signed, got

695
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: all this money, but we're not making a record. So

696
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: I went to the opening, So but you did get resigned,

697
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: got resigned? Yeah, great deal. And I go to the

698
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: okan Hounitorium and he's on stage with the Dobie Brothers

699
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: and when he comes down, I'm waiting at the bottom

700
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: of the stairs and I tell him, I go, ted,

701
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: we have to record. He was, oh, oh, hey man,

702
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: good to see you. Listen, he goes, I'm not doing

703
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: so good. You know, I got problems with my liver.

704
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: I got a hold of my nose. You know, I

705
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: got stuff going on in us. But because I think

706
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: you should produce the record, and I go, that's fine.

707
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: I go, but we gotta make the record, you know.

708
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: And he goes, I'm gonna talk to them Monday and

709
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: I'll get back to you. He goes to Warners to

710
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: the Heads Up you know, Mo and car Joe and

711
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: all them, and he says, uh, you know, Tower Parker

712
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: needs to make their record and but I can't do it.

713
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go to treatment. I got liverything.

714
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: And they all told him we only signed them because

715
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: you wanted them, and they released us. Yeah, so in

716
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: the eyes of the industry, oh yeah, we look like

717
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: horror show, you know. And that's sort of the final

718
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: straw that made the eighties come into existence, funny way

719
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: of putting it. So, how did you make it through

720
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: the eighties? Well, eventually, uh, you know, CBS was trying

721
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: to get us to conform him to the disco thing happen,

722
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: you know that. And you know, we tried to do

723
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: what they wanted because they're giving us all this money,

724
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, But we always sounded like Tower Power no

725
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: matter what we did. They're going like, if you could

726
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: sound like these other bands, you know, And we used

727
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: to think of ourselves like this is like we're cursed.

728
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: Why can't we sound like these bands that are on

729
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: the radio? You know? After we got lost the deal

730
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: with Warners and everything and nothing was happening. I told

731
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: the guys, let's just make the music like we always

732
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: did because we could always play live. We always had

733
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: a following, you know, and so we just went back

734
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 1: to making our original songs and doing them the way

735
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: we do them, and things gradually started to get better.

736
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: And then Paul Shaffer really dug us. We started doing

737
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: guest shots with the horn section, and even you know,

738
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: I went on, I sang a song and this is

739
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: a Letterman when he's on Ave on NBC, and we were.

740
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: We were on Letterman like sixteen times in the eighties,

741
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: you know. And then right about that time, we met

742
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: Huey Lewis in the News and Huey Lewis was a

743
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: fan we had. We had played for Bill Graham at

744
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: the Old Waldorf and we had played all this new

745
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: material that we had and he came backstage and he

746
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: was gushing all over us, you know, and wow, where'd

747
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: you get those songs? And uh, and he goes, my

748
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: name is Huey Man. I'm a huge fan. And I

749
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: had heard of Huey Lewis and the News and I

750
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: thought out all these weird bands, Devo and the Knack

751
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: and the Motels and the Cars. I thought, that's a

752
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: cool name. And when he says my name is Huey Lewis,

753
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: I go, oh, you got that band the News. He goes, yeah,

754
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: we love you guys, you know. And so then like

755
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: a week later, we're doing a session at CBS, which

756
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: was right by Rubinson's office and uh, he comes over.

757
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: He says, we're across the hall. We have these two

758
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: songs we think would be perfect for your horns, and

759
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: we did, uh, I hope you'll love me like you

760
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: say you do and working for a living, and when

761
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: I had not heard them up to that point, but

762
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: I go and hope you love me like you say

763
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: you do. I don't know if you ever heard that song.

764
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a salmon dave to right. It's

765
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: so full, you know, And I was like, whoa, look

766
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: at these guys. You know. So we immediately hit it off,

767
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: and then they started to blow up a bit and

768
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: we would go sitting with them. They come to l A,

769
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: we go sit in different places, we'd sit in. They

770
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: loved it, you know. But when they put out the

771
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: Sports A sports yeah huge, you know, And he comes

772
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: to me and he says, uh, you know, would you

773
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: go on tour with us the Horns. I said, I

774
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: got the band, you know, I can't just leave them.

775
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: And he said, he said, well, you know, it just

776
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: really will make it really worth your money, and blah

777
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: blah blah. And I said, I'll tell you what if

778
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: you let me bring the band out to do midnight

779
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: shows after your concert and you announced it at the

780
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: concert and say that your band is coming to sit

781
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: in with us and and you know, and mention us

782
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: in all the interviews, I'll do it. And he has

783
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: no problem. Yeah, and he did. He was a man

784
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: of his word. Okay, so you play the gig and

785
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: you would ever city. This was when they were at

786
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: the height of their success. And so you get a

787
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: local club where, yeah, we'll be playing Jones Beach and

788
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: we do a midnight show at the bottom line. And

789
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: he had announced it, you know, at the concert to

790
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand people and say we're going to go sitting

791
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: with our party to night the place to be seen

792
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: right right right right. We played Connecticut, you know, we

793
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: do the Agora, you know, and all these people would

794
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: be there, you know pretty soon. It's like things are

795
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: getting better, you know. And then okay, so continue the story. Well,

796
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: then we couldn't get a record deal though, you know,

797
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: because they still looked at us like, you know, like

798
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: their music will never be popular again, and these these

799
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: guys are over, and that's what the media was saying,

800
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, finally there was this guy. His

801
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: name's Michael Kaplan, really cool guy. Yeah, he's from Connecticut.

802
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: He's had a lot of other people now yeah, and

803
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: he was at uh well, he used to come to

804
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: my gigs. He used to go, I'm your biggest fan,

805
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be in the record business, you know.

806
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I've known this guy for years to show

807
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: up and uh pretty soon, man, you know, he's like

808
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: I'm in the mail room at you know. And then

809
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: he got a gig and he was like a VP

810
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: of A and R Epic and we were at our

811
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: wits end. I went time manager at Michelle's Aaron I said,

812
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: I want you to call this guy and tell him,

813
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't do something, his favorite band

814
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: is gonna be gone. And she called him up and

815
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: he had just gotten sober. He had about two and

816
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: a half years, I think, and I had just gotten

817
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: sober and Doc had just gotten sober. And he found

818
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: that out and He called me up and he goes, uh, hey,

819
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: so here we're in the same club, you know, yeah,

820
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: And he goes, uh, you guys got any songs? I go, yeah,

821
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: we always have songs. He goes, yeah, can you give

822
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: me something? I'm going on vacation. I go yeah, And

823
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: I sent him a cassette and he went down on

824
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: the Virgin Islands. He came because you know what, I

825
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: like this. He goes, But I can't sign you, dude.

826
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: I can sign you anytime I want, but I can't

827
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: do it unless I know I got the whole company

828
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: behind it. He goes, so, I want you to take

829
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: a gig for seven nights in Manhattan. So we did

830
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: the bottom line seven nights, two shows a night. And

831
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: he sent out a memo throughout the record company. Ten

832
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: reasons why he should never sign a band like Tower

833
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: of Power. You know, there are a bunch of dinosaurs,

834
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: there are a bunch of drug addicts, They're too old,

835
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: their style of music will never be popular again. Ten

836
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: reasons right. He sends this out and the next day

837
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: sends out another one, and he rebuts all those reasons,

838
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: and then he starts bringing east. He starts bringing people

839
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: down in fours and fives every night, four or five

840
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: people from the company. He's just like rallying the company.

841
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: And then he calls me on Sunday and he says,

842
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: get the guys together for lunch. We're going out for

843
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: a big celebration. You what's that? He goes, I'm signing

844
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: you guys the seven album deal. And he signed this,

845
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: God bless him. And then what happened. What we did

846
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: a first record. You know, we hadn't done a record

847
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: in years. We did Monster on the Leash for him

848
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: and sold well, and you know, things are started to

849
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: go good and continue to go better and better. Okay,

850
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: so let's go back to the beginning. You originally from Detroit. Yeah,

851
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: until I was eleven. Okay, you're in Detroit. We're in

852
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: Detroit because Detroit has the rich suburbs, the poor suburbs,

853
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 1: the inner city. Yeah, I was not in the rich suburbs.

854
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: Where were you My dad? You know, Uh, it was

855
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: a bartender and I was on Evergreen Road between Joy

856
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: Road and West Chicago in the city, you know, not

857
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: in When I was a little kid, we lived in

858
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: the ghetto, in the projects, and uh moved to fourteen

859
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: Street right down from what was the twenty Grand Club

860
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: and uh, and then we were out there on Evergreen,

861
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: but it was just a lower middle class. Your father,

862
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: where did he come from? He's born in Laredo, Texas,

863
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: but he had moved to Detroit. You know a lot

864
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: of Mexican people moved to Detroit during the war. What

865
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: was the motivation jobs? Yeah, and so you know, culinary

866
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: industry was big Mexican guys coming up there being bus boys, waiters, bartenders.

867
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: He became a bartender. It's a lot of nightlife in

868
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: my family. Yeah, I can hear that. What about your mother?

869
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: My mother was Greek. He met her in Detroit, you know,

870
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: and uh, she was a very flamboyant personality. They both

871
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: had a great sensitive humor. They both loved music. There

872
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: weren't musicians, but I loved music. My mother could play

873
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: a little piano and sing. But you know that. Did

874
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: they stay together? No, they they stayed together a long time.

875
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: They divorced in the early nineties. Okay, how old were there?

876
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: How were you when they divorced? I was forty three.

877
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: What do you think about them getting divorced at that age? Well,

878
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: I was getting a divorce at the same time. So

879
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: it was kind of like we could sympathize with each other.

880
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's always funny when people are together that long.

881
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: Did they every each of them find somebody new? They

882
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: both did. Yeah, my dad found a couple of new

883
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: my my mother found a wonderful Yugoslavian man, and uh, Evan,

884
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: we loved him. We loved him. And then uh, she

885
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,959
Speaker 1: died in the mid two thousand's and he died about

886
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: seven years later. Okay, so you're growing up in Detroit.

887
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: What year were you were born? Again? Okay, so are

888
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: you know Detroit? Obviously the home of Motown was there?

889
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: That was like, okay, were listening to the radio up

890
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: to the age of level Yeah, yeah, no, my my parents,

891
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: you know, the high Fi came out whenever the kid.

892
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: My parents played music all the time, The Platters, Bill

893
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: Dog At, Elvis Presley, the Ink Spots, Mills Brothers. You know,

894
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: they loved music. They're always playing records, Mario Lanza and

895
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: k Starred. You know, we had lots of albums and

896
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: they were always playing. Okay, and then, uh, at what

897
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: point do you pick up an instrument? Well, what happens

898
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: is we moved to the Bay Area. Okay, a little bit,

899
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: a little why my dad lost his job, and he

900
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: figured he could be broke over there just as well

901
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: as in Detroit. You know, anybody in the baynew one guy,

902
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: the guy that mentored him as a bar tender. We

903
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: called him Uncle Jack McCarthy. And Jack was always telling

904
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: my dad, who was also Jack, you know, Jack, you

905
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: need to come out to the Bay Area, man, this

906
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: is where it's happening. So he took us all out

907
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: to the Bay Area, and Uh, I missed my friends.

908
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm a little kid. I missed my friends. So my

909
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: friend was the radio. I'm listening to k w B

910
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: and k f R C and k A A and

911
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: Rest of the Moose, Syracuse and Tom downa Hue and

912
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And uh, I loved listening to songs,

913
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: you know. And that's when you know stuff by you know,

914
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: all the all those Goffin and King songs. You know

915
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: the Orleans and you know the Drifters, and you know

916
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: all that. I loved it and write about. Then I

917
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: started playing motown music and I'm missing my friends, you know,

918
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: And then uh, you know, we become teenagers. I'm fourteen,

919
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: and uh, we're going to the pool at summertime Fremont, California.

920
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: We lived in San Francisco for three months and then

921
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: my parents bought a house in the suburbs by this house.

922
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: Did your mother work outside the home? Yeah, she would,

923
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, waitress, she would be a medical assistant, dental assistant.

924
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: You know. My mom was always like, there was never

925
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: enough money for mom. You know, it was, uh, no matter.

926
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: We had everything we could ever want it, but she

927
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: was always unhappy about that. And well what she was

928
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: bad at your father didn't make a better living. I guess,

929
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: you know what I guess. The point I'm trying to

930
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: make is that they always ran away from their finances.

931
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: So that's what they did. When they left Detroit, they

932
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: had bills. You know, back then you could leave right

933
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: right was the computerized. So they just moved over there

934
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: and all those bills went away. And then you know,

935
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: we established a life in the Bay Area and they

936
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: got really badly in debt and they moved back to Detroit.

937
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: You know that was like d m oh. You know

938
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: I didn't know this as a kid, an at How

939
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: how long did they stay in the Bay Area before

940
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: they went And we got there in sixty two and

941
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: they left in uh late and one day, you know,

942
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: and by now I got the band right, And one

943
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: day my mother says, you know, we're moving to Detroit.

944
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: What we're moving to Detroit? You know, she's upset because

945
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: the bills and everything, you know, And I go, what

946
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: do you mean we're moving to I had the band,

947
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: and my dad knew how important the band was to me,

948
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: and he says, he comes to me and he says, uh,

949
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you and your brother stay out here,

950
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give you one year because if you

951
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: don't make it within one year, you have to come

952
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: back to try and be with me and your mother.

953
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: And that was the deal. We were. You still in

954
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: high school. I just graduated. Okay, So back to you're

955
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area, you're in Fremont. At what point

956
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: do you start playing an instrument? Like I said, I'm

957
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: fourteen years old and we're gonna go to the swimming

958
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: bool at the local high school and we have this

959
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: great idea. You know, these uh all the boys IrH

960
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: are wearing these um tight muscleman T shirts. They call

961
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: them muscleman T shirts. So they were like pastel colors,

962
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: you know, Apricot and turquoise high neck collars fit tight

963
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: on you. And we had this really great idea. We'll

964
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: go into Mervyn's and we'll put on three of those

965
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: T shirts and put our shirt over it and walk out.

966
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: And we walked out and the manager's waiting and my

967
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: dad takes me to uh he comes against me, and

968
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: then he he gives me a notebook. He says, feel,

969
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: this is why you're never going to steal again. He

970
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: took me to apologize to the story manager and then

971
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: he says, and think of something that's going to keep

972
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: you out of trouble, or you're never coming out of

973
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: that room again. All summer and uh, the Beatles had

974
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: just come out, and we said we want to play

975
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: music Dad, because my friend had just got a guitar

976
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: when he was on vacation in Mexico, Jody Jody Lopez,

977
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: my first guitar player. And uh, he took us where

978
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: he used to get in the car. He goes. He

979
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: took us to Allegro Music and Fremont. He points at

980
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: the wall because all the instruments were hanging out in

981
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: the wall. Is anything you want? And uh, my dad

982
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: used to work in these show bars like uh, he

983
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: worked at this hotel in palab Alto called The Companion,

984
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: which was like a small Caesar's palace owned by Terry Melcher,

985
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: days boy and producer. Yeah, so they have these show

986
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: bands are like the Big Beats and the swingdon Lads

987
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: and and these bands had horns and they were cool

988
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: and just really cool. And we would go there to

989
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: pick up my dad and I'd seen these bands rehearsing

990
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: there and checking them out. And to me, the sax

991
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: player was always the coolest guy, so I pointed the saxophone.

992
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: My brother always said the drummer was the coolest guy,

993
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: so he points at the drums. I remember we came

994
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: home that day and the guitar player, Jody, he knew

995
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: the beginning to Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison, and he

996
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: starts going dune dun dune, dune dune, and my brothers going,

997
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, and he's gonna done done done, no, no,

998
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: no none, and that's all he knew. And I'm squeaking

999
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: on the saxophone and my mom walks in and she

1000
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: says they're gonna be huge stars. And then uh she

1001
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: became our manager her and eventually we got Rocko on

1002
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 1: the band. Although his name was Frank Houghton back then. Okay,

1003
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: but how did you learn how to play? My dad

1004
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: got us all these teachers. You know. Uh, I wanted

1005
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 1: to play a sax. He got me a sax teacher.

1006
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: So I started to learning how to play sacks. But

1007
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: I got bored with that. The cool guys and all

1008
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: those dish bands played the organs. He said, I want

1009
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: to organ. He got me a far Fista organ. But

1010
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: then it was the really cool organ was the box.

1011
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: He got me the box. You know. Then I wanted

1012
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: to play guitar, and it got me one of those

1013
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: box cheerdrop guitars. And you know, I'm learning. I would

1014
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: go tell these teachers what I want to learn. I

1015
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: want to learn how to play the chords on the guitar.

1016
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to learn how to solo, and you know,

1017
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: and and I want to learn how to play chords

1018
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: and and figure out songs. I wanted to figure out

1019
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: the chords to my favorite records. Of course, that's what

1020
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: we did. So my dad went to one of these

1021
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: musicians at his job and he said, you know, my

1022
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,959
Speaker 1: son is obsessed with music, and you know, I've gotten

1023
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: him a sack teacher. And guitar teacher, an organ teacher,

1024
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: and he goes, what else can I do for him?

1025
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: And the guy goes, get him a theory teacher, and

1026
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: he says, you know what's that he is? Just just

1027
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: do it. He goes, I know a guy, and he

1028
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: sends me to Norman Bates, who was the bass player

1029
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,919
Speaker 1: for Dave Brubeck and then he owned a hotel. Yeah,

1030
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: he was at ABC Music and Berlin Game. And I

1031
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: would go there once a week and give me ear

1032
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: training and interval training, and he taught me about chords

1033
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: and about numbers. And I used to go there and

1034
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: used to think, what is this doing for me? I

1035
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: did not get it, you know. But every day I'd

1036
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: go back to the garage and I'd be trying to

1037
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: figure out the chords and the parts to all my

1038
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: favorite records, you know, so I could teach the band.

1039
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: And Uh, one day it just all fell into place.

1040
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it's all math, it's all numbers. And

1041
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: I was always good math, you know. And the other

1042
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: thing my dad did was he got a guy named

1043
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: Terry Saunders, a phenomenal guitar player. He just died last year.

1044
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: He got him to come in and teach the band

1045
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: once a week as a band. Right, that's amazing. I

1046
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: don't know anybody else snore. He come in and he say,

1047
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: you know what song you want to learn? You know,

1048
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and he's satisfaction, you know, and he

1049
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: and he made us each player instruments. I remember one

1050
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: really cool thing he did. You know. We had high

1051
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: Frank Houghton, who later became Rocko Pressti Bayer, probably the

1052
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: most famous guy ever in our being it, you know,

1053
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: and uh, he looked at each of us, he goes,

1054
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: play your instrument. You on guitar. Jody plays the guitar,

1055
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: and he points out my brother to play your drums,

1056
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 1: and each guy plays it. When he goes to Frank,

1057
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: he says, play your guitar, and Rocco goes like this,

1058
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: he couldn't play at all, you know, and he looks

1059
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 1: at him. He says, you need to play the bass.

1060
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: And we all go what's a bass and he says,

1061
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: don't worry about it, you need one, And within two

1062
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 1: weeks Frank was playing bass better than you know, seven

1063
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: years on the guitar, you know, and became one of

1064
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: the most famous bass players ever. But that teacher. I

1065
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: used to watch him and he'd be teaching us all

1066
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: these little parts, you know, and everybody we learned to

1067
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: play these songs. Pretty soon we got to be a

1068
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: good little band, you know, playing around the town. And okay,

1069
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: a little bit slower. Obviously, since you jumped from instrum

1070
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: into instrument, you had some sort of facility with this.

1071
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: And yeah it's current jack of all trades, master of none, no, no,

1072
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: But what I mean is, you know, back in the

1073
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: air of the Beatles. I certainly took piano lessons before that,

1074
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: but it became clear as we tried to form bands,

1075
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: some people, it was there were naturals and other people

1076
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: were not. Okay, so obviously you must have had some

1077
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 1: natural effaci and my dad made me be the leader.

1078
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: He saw that, okay, and he didn't see it in

1079
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: my brother j Okay, from the moment you got the saxophone,

1080
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: did you ever say, because you know, especially today, people

1081
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: buy their kids guitars. They played for a month, that's it. Okay,

1082
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: did you ever look back? Did you ever look you

1083
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: get the saxes and not really sure maybe I'd get

1084
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: the right instrument or whatever, or from the moment you

1085
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: got it. You were into it. So here's the thing.

1086
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: It's not the sacks, it's not the guitar, it's not

1087
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: the organ, it's the band. That's my instrument. That's what

1088
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: I do. And I realized this now. At the time,

1089
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: I didn't, but that was always my passion. I got

1090
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: tired of the sacks, and I got tired of the organ,

1091
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: and I got tired of the guitar, but I would

1092
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: go back and I go whatever the band needed. That's

1093
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: what I did, and my my deal became. I was

1094
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: the facilitator of the musicians in the band. I'd say,

1095
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 1: I tell my brother. My brother wasn't a really great drummer,

1096
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: but he practiced incessantly right, And I would tell him,

1097
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: I want to make this beat like a percolator beat.

1098
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: Remember the coffee commercial. Of course, I said, we're gonna

1099
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 1: make a beat like that. Do you know nobody was

1100
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: doing that? You know, that's why I wanted to do it.

1101
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: You know. I teach him that beat. No, no, you're

1102
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: based on doogle doogle bab boom, you know. And he

1103
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: learned this beat and then we do nine nine and

1104
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: a half. I Wilson Pigott, and I tell Frank, you know,

1105
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 1: go like this, Boogo, Google Goo Google. And I showed

1106
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: Jody on the guitar and show him much because I

1107
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: could play these things, you know. And that's what Doc

1108
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: noticed about what I did. He says, you know, what

1109
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: you're doing with these songs amazing, But why aren't we

1110
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: writing our own? That's how probably never would have come

1111
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: to my mind. Okay, just going back, but when a

1112
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: little kid, you're not that little, you're fourteen, gets ah soxophone.

1113
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: Saxophone is not that easy to play, okay. So, but

1114
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: you were determined and you never looked back. I wanted

1115
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: to play it in the band, okay. So you have

1116
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: the front and playing the guitar, yeah, okay, and you

1117
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: got the sacks. Your brother got the drums. So first

1118
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: the band was the three of you. You know. The

1119
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 1: point is it was a band first, and then we

1120
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: learned to so okay. But when it was a band,

1121
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: when the guy was coming teaching the parts, how many

1122
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: people were in the band. There was five? Okay. How

1123
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 1: long after you started in the garage did you play

1124
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: outside the garage? Oh? That's you know. Soon, I mean

1125
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: we we we started playing far sooner than we should

1126
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: have people do. Yeah. I mean we just got out

1127
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: there and started playing. You know what kind of gigs

1128
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: in the park, you know, at the school. Whatever. My

1129
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 1: mother could, uh you could dig up her. My mother

1130
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: and Frank's mother became the managers. Okay. And how many

1131
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: of these gigs need you get paid for? We were

1132
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: It wasn't about money. But were you getting paid or

1133
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: was it always for free? It wasn't always for free? Okay,

1134
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: So Needles just say, this is the era of the Beatles.

1135
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: What do we know about the Beatles? They were internationally famous,

1136
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: they got all the girls, and they were rich. Okay,

1137
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: you're starting the band other than loving the music, do

1138
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: you say, hey, I want to be famous, I want

1139
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 1: to be rich. I want to use this as a

1140
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: way to integrate myself. And I would say the most

1141
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: important out of those three would be the girls. Fourteen

1142
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 1: years old? That's why do you want to be in

1143
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: the band? Because you're cool? You know, That's that's that's

1144
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: the driving force. Okay. I got asked, did it work

1145
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: for you? Yeah? It worked. I mean it worked better

1146
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: than if I didn't have the band, you know, right? Okay,

1147
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: how many times you've been married? Three times? Okay? Are

1148
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: you married down? I just got married yet June. So, uh,

1149
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: the band first year you're in the high school. So

1150
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: the band starts when you're fourteen? Yeah, but not Tower

1151
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: of Power guy, I realized, Okay, when does it become

1152
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: the Motowns and Tower of Power? The Motowns when I

1153
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: was almost actually when I was sixteen, and then uh,

1154
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: I hired Doc when I was seventeen, and we changed

1155
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: our name a few months after. He was in the band,

1156
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: just before I was. And when when when you changed

1157
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: the name of the band. How many people were in

1158
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: the band? Uh? Nine or ten? You know. We had

1159
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: a singer, Rufus Miller and he came in the band,

1160
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: but then he left for like four months because the

1161
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: Black Panthers were after him for a cocaine did he

1162
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: just vanished? But then he came back. So he was

1163
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: with us when we auditioned. Okay, so it was always

1164
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: a big band. Was there a specific model? Did you

1165
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: say I want to be like them? Yes? Who was

1166
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: up the Spiders? You gotta tell me who that is? Nobody,

1167
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: you don't know who they It was a local soul band.

1168
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: They were a white soul band. They had a six

1169
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: ft three inch black chick named Truny Johnson, who was

1170
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: very good. But to be real honest, it was about

1171
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: the band. And they had a white singer named Dennis Delacua.

1172
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: He played organ and he had an alto sitting on

1173
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: the organ, and in the middle of the song when

1174
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: there was a horned soulely, he would stand up and

1175
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: play alto with the trumpet and tentor. I had never

1176
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: seen a band play soul music that tight and that soulful.

1177
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: It moved me and from that moment the night I

1178
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: saw them. How old were you then? I was sixteen?

1179
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: And after that all other forms of music were out

1180
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: there window only soul music. That was it. It wasn't

1181
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: until I started writing songs with Doc and sort of

1182
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: reopened my mind to other forms of music and listening

1183
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: to writers and all that, but I got like blinders

1184
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: on about soul music. I became a soul music fanatic,

1185
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be like the Spiders. Okay, did

1186
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: you play like rock and roll before you saw the Spiders? Okay?

1187
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: So this is my direction, you know somewhere in the city,

1188
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: right right right, Okay, So now you have the band,

1189
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: your parents announced they're escaping their bills, they're going back

1190
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: to Detroit. Yes, you graduate from high school. How often

1191
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: is what are you doing for money? How often is

1192
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: a band working? And not very much? Not very much

1193
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: at all. And uh, you know, I look back at

1194
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: that time in my life and I wonder how we

1195
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: even survived. My brother had this girlfriend named Kathy and

1196
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: they're still married today, and uh, she would be with

1197
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: us and she would bring us to Lasagnas a week,

1198
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: big ones, and we tried to parse that out. And

1199
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, we had friends and uh, you know, we

1200
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: could drink for free. We go down to the nightclub,

1201
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: you know. And it wasn't that we couldn't I couldn't

1202
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: go to the nightclub, but we couldn't play at the

1203
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: nightclubs that we used to play because they had sent

1204
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: out this memorandum to all the clubs and the be areas.

1205
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: And you hire these kids again, you're losing your liquor license.

1206
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:14,919
Speaker 1: So you know, we're just starving. That's why I say,

1207
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: by the time we did the film or audition, we're

1208
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: on our woods end, you know. And I told the

1209
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: guy there, look, nothing happens, I'm not coming back from Detroit.

1210
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: Doc was devastated. Everybody was what was your living situation?

1211
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: We we were renting a house and were the first

1212
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: house we got when my parents left. We had this

1213
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: old man and every time he came to click, then

1214
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: we said, oh we have it, but you also okay boys,

1215
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: And we were there for about four months and uh,

1216
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: he never collected her rent. It was God send, you know.

1217
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: And then then he kicked you out. No, no, the

1218
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: septic thing broke and uh and we we got out

1219
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and went and took

1220
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 1: the money. We had the money to pay the rent.

1221
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: We just hadn't paid him, and we took that. You

1222
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: were never intending to pay him, probably not, you know,

1223
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: trying to live, you know. Tother auser meanted it and

1224
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: got two roommates. Okay. Did you ever have a day job?

1225
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: All right, you know, not very much. I mean I

1226
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: remember I worked when I was a kid, you know,

1227
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: a drug store. Not very long, you know. And plus

1228
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: when times we're really tough in the early eighties, I

1229
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: remember I answered the phone for a plumber in Santa Monica. Wow. Yeah,

1230
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: but I sat there and wrote songs and got high,

1231
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: and uh answered the phone. He was a good guy.

1232
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: Was that the only low point for you and Tower

1233
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: of Power the early eighties or is there another time

1234
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: where you were at wits end um that was the

1235
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: lowest point, Yes, definitely, you know. And then but even then,

1236
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 1: you know, I went for another what eight years drinking

1237
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: and using it, you know, and then I really bottomed

1238
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: out and got clean. As soon as I got clean,

1239
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: everything started getting back. What was the motivation to get clean?

1240
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: It I'll stop working, you know, I had good by

1241
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: now I'm working with Hughey Lewis. I'm I'm making money, right,

1242
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: I got money, and but I'm spending it all on

1243
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol and I'm not getting loaded. I'm driving

1244
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: on and I feel like I got withdrawals. But I

1245
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: have drugs and me and stopped working. And yet even

1246
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: though it stopped working, I wouldn't quit giving my money

1247
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: to the guy, you know. And uh, and I just

1248
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: wanted to quit, but I didn't think I could. And

1249
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: I went into a hospital, not not for the treatment,

1250
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: not for a a or nothing. I didn't go there

1251
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: for that. I just thought I'm going to rest and uh,

1252
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: maybe you know, they'll kick me out. And I'm sure

1253
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: it was going to die. By the time I was

1254
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: forty I was thirty seven, and I went in there

1255
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: and uh, they did a lecture on the twelve steps,

1256
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: and I realized there was a way to stop drinking

1257
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: and using it and not be miserable a little bit slower.

1258
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: What do you know, hospitals, they don't just let you

1259
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: in for anything. There's a regular hospital rehab St. John's

1260
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica. Okay, so you went into it's a rehab.

1261
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: It's a rehab. There's okay, there is, But I don't

1262
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: know what rehab is. I have no idea what it is.

1263
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: I saw. I say, I'd been hospitalized for pancreatitis like

1264
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: thirteen times. I couldn't drink alcohol, you know, and so

1265
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: I used a lot of drugs to keep away from it,

1266
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: but I always went back to the alcohol. And so

1267
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: just this vicious cycle in and out of hospitals, you know.

1268
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: And so finally, you know, I get there and they say,

1269
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: in order for us to let you into this facility,

1270
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: you have to be in a wheelchair. I was like,

1271
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: bring the wheelchair and I'm done, you know. And but

1272
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: I had no hope. I just thought I was going

1273
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: to rest for thirty days. And I went into this lecture.

1274
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, there were these girls, they were talking, they

1275
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: were near me, they were going to you know, so

1276
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: so it's not working a program. And if you don't

1277
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: work a program there and they kick him out and

1278
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: this guy he works a good program. And I remember

1279
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: asking what's the program and they go, oh, you don't

1280
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: get to find out because you're in detox. That made

1281
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: me curious, you know. And the next morning I saw

1282
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: like thirty of those people going into this room and

1283
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: this guy, Joe Takamini, the doctor in Santa Monica, and

1284
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: he gave a lecture on those steps and I realized, oh,

1285
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: there's something you actually do so that you can stop

1286
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: drinking and using and not be miserable and wanted it

1287
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: and never drink again. Wow, never relapsed. And then today,

1288
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: thirty two years today, literally today, I woke up this

1289
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: morning thanking God. Okay, so you know, as part of

1290
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm not a twelve stepper, but I'm familiar with it

1291
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: that you have to make amends and all that stuff.

1292
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: Did you do that? And do you still go to meetings?

1293
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: I was there this morning seven am. Really absolutely how

1294
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: often do you go to a meeting? Wherever I can?

1295
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: I like going? That's why I was gonna ask that

1296
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: question next it and you love it because it Uh.

1297
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: For one, I like the feeling I get when I

1298
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: helped somebody, and when I share my recovery, you know,

1299
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: I help people and people come to me. I sponsor guys.

1300
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: It's just gets me out of myself. One of the

1301
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: things I learned in recovery is that, you know, the

1302
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: whole thing is getting out of self, you know. And

1303
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: I'd like to tell you I'm not very self centered,

1304
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: but that's a lie that I am, you know, And

1305
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: so you know, I've learned how to deal with that

1306
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: stuff in uh, in that recovery program. Okay, how did

1307
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: you end up in Santa Monica? Because you know, you

1308
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: all these stories happen in l A. And you've been

1309
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: in northern but when do you move down south? I

1310
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: was in the Bay Area, and you know, all that

1311
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: stuff had happened with the warners and CBS and my

1312
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: my career is falling apart and everything, and uh, I

1313
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: was at the Record Plan in Saucelito, where I worked

1314
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: for years making records, and I was friends with the owner,

1315
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: Chris Stone. And Chris Stone, you know, then, how are you?

1316
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: How are you doing? He says, hey, how's my favorite guy?

1317
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: You know? And I'm on, you know, crying the blues,

1318
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: and how a sudden he yells at me, and he says,

1319
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 1: get out of those because you're one of the most

1320
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: talented people I know. Get out of those Berkeley Hills

1321
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: clouds and get in the business. Get out the businesses

1322
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: in l A. I was stunned, man, stunned. You know,

1323
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: you never yelled at me. And I went home and

1324
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, we're all strung out, and my wife's in

1325
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: the bed, and I got in and go, we're moving

1326
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: to l A. And she goes, what We're moving to

1327
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: l A. And she goes, why would we do that?

1328
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: I go because Chris Stones said so, and she okay.

1329
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: You know, Chris told me, he said, when you come down,

1330
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: you have free reign at the Record Plan twenty four

1331
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: hours a day. And that's what I did. I came

1332
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: down and I hung out at the Record Plan and

1333
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: I tried to get sessions and I got a lot

1334
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: of recording sessions. And but you don't live in l

1335
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: A now, no, no, no. I left when the earthquake happened.

1336
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: My wife. My wife was six months pregnant with their

1337
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: first child, and next thing I knew, I was in Scottsdale.

1338
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: I still haven't recovered from the earthquake. But uh, okay,

1339
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: so your brother Jack, where's he today? He stopped being

1340
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: a drummer, I presumed. Now he plays drums again. Now

1341
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: he did for a lot long time he stopped. And

1342
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: what did he end up doing for a living? He's

1343
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 1: like a uh remember when when the millennium happened, you know,

1344
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: in two thousand, you know, and everything was everyone was

1345
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 1: afraid about what happened. Yeah, he was like head of

1346
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: uh computer security worldwide for Cisco. Then you know, like

1347
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: that's like a pretty good job. Oh yeah, he does good. Okay, okay,

1348
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: you've been married three times? How many kids? Five? Five?

1349
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: How what are the ages? Uh? Forty four and twenty?

1350
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: And they all how many are still on the payroll?

1351
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean that you have to support them. Oh they're

1352
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: all adults now, they all are, so they altered out.

1353
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: You have good relationship with all of them? My three

1354
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: young ones, I do not, although I love them with

1355
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: all my heart. They stopped talking to me when their

1356
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: mother decided she'd want to be married anymore. How long

1357
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: ago was that? It's over three years? Now it's one

1358
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: of the sorest parts of my life. Yeah, but you

1359
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 1: know I have confidence that that's gonna come around. How

1360
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: long were we with her? Twenty four years and she

1361
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: decided to end it? So why are they mad at you?

1362
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: You know, I can't really answer that because they don't

1363
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: talk to me. Well, since we're having an honest conversation,

1364
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: did you did she fire you because you behave badly? Um?

1365
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: That's another sort of one that's unanswered Bush. You know,

1366
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: she if you if you look at the paperwork and

1367
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: says your reconcilable differences. Right. I actually took it to

1368
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: the church. We became members of the church in two

1369
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,560
Speaker 1: thousand four, and you know, we were having problems and

1370
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: we went there and did all this writ but she

1371
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 1: just kept going further and further south. And then uh,

1372
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 1: finally she and I thought, you know, we're Christians, she's

1373
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: not going to divorce. We we got to work through this,

1374
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 1: you know. But she wasn't able. She has she has

1375
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 1: a lot of baggage to alcoholic baggage, baggage from an

1376
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: alcoholic father and a lot of abuse there and uh,

1377
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: she needed you know, what happened with us is that

1378
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: she got overly upset with her kids, and one of

1379
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: the best mothers you'll ever meet in your life. But

1380
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 1: and this is my fault, is that I allowed that

1381
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: to happen. I should have you know, she met all

1382
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 1: my needs. She was a great wife, and uh, I

1383
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: should have nurtured the marriage and and insisted, you know,

1384
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,640
Speaker 1: she tell me, you know, we're growing apart. You know,

1385
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: I need to be wooed. And then I go, let's

1386
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: go out, let's do something. Let's go and she well,

1387
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, I got this kid thing with the kids,

1388
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, you know, we could take

1389
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: the kids, and it was always the kids, the kids

1390
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: and kids, you know, and I love my kids and

1391
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: I love being with them, so I'm not confrontational, you know.

1392
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: So I would just go okay, you know, and then

1393
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, we did grow apart, and pretty soon it

1394
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: was too far apart to get back. Did she find

1395
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: somebody new? No, I doubt you will. I wish you would. Okay,

1396
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 1: So she's in Arizona and you're in Arizona, and I

1397
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 1: just got married in June. Yes, I say, how did

1398
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:56,600
Speaker 1: you meet your present life? She's a member of my

1399
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: home group. What my recovery group oh okay, So yeah,

1400
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 1: I havn't own her for years. Okay, just to be clear,

1401
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, isn't there some kind of you know,

1402
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 1: you can't meet somebody in recovery do They never would

1403
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: date anyone and recovery ever ever, ever, they say, you're

1404
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: fishing and polluted waters if you do that. So how

1405
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 1: did you meet? Isn't she in the recovery group? You know?

1406
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,560
Speaker 1: No matter what I did, God kept putting her in

1407
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 1: my life. And finally I just uh it was my

1408
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: sponsor actually told me. He said, you know, did you

1409
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: ever stop to think that maybe God wants you to

1410
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 1: be with that lady? You know? And I was like,

1411
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 1: I guess so, And now what is her What is

1412
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: her rage relative to you? Just four years younger? She's sixty,

1413
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: she have children, she has to and she has h

1414
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,799
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to her young daughter and her family

1415
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: go speak to her either. So we both have that

1416
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: in our lives that in the program people, you're going, okay,

1417
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: how did you get into Christianity? My wife at the time,

1418
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: I was already really into spirituality, you know, I mean,

1419
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 1: and I had already started reading the Bible. I used

1420
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 1: to read two pages a day for ten years, but

1421
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 1: I really didn't want to hear about Jesus Christ. Did

1422
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 1: not then I want to hang with people that talked

1423
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: about Jesus Christ. Because there was a time in my

1424
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: band when David Garibaldi was a Christian and he brought

1425
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: in two other Christians in. We called him the God Squad.

1426
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: And they're always pointing the finger. You need to quit

1427
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: use those drugs, and you need to read the Bible.

1428
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: And you know, alcoholics, they don't want to be pointed

1429
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: at and talked down to. But I could always see

1430
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 1: that it was working in his life. And so flash forward,

1431
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, eventually, in my studies of all different kinds

1432
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: of you know, um, self help writers and spiritual I

1433
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: read the Koran, I read the Course of Miracles, I

1434
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,799
Speaker 1: read the Bible, and then pretty soon I just settled

1435
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: on the Bible. I felt like that was the truth,

1436
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: and I would read the two pages a day. But

1437
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm not wanting to hear about Jesus. And guess what,

1438
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: I didn't see him in there at all. You know, well,

1439
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: you didn't want to you're about Jesus because because of

1440
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: that situation with the Yeah, yeah, okay, so I thought

1441
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,879
Speaker 1: of Christians, as you know, do good heer finger pointers

1442
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 1: because that was your experience. So do you believe in God? Now?

1443
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ. Yeah,

1444
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 1: very very friendly. So and even though it's my ex

1445
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 1: wife who you know, I got started right, Yeah, and

1446
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 1: I haven't wavered in my faith at all. Okay, So

1447
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: how did the money thing work? You know, there were

1448
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,839
Speaker 1: so many people in the band, so you know we're hippies.

1449
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: Everything is equal. Okay, But did was there enough to

1450
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: carry you through the whole time? God has always provided

1451
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: for me. I don't know how, but yeah, okay, So

1452
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: at age sixty nine, hypothetically you can't play music. Do

1453
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: you have enough money to get you through? Or do

1454
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 1: you have to work to pay the bills? I have

1455
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: to work. I mean I probably have enough to get

1456
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: me through. But you know, people tell me when you're

1457
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: gonna retaried. No retirement of the Bible, that's a handmade thing.

1458
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: There's no retirement of the music business. My role models

1459
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: BB King, I'm gonna bob till a drop. Okay. So

1460
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: what's the status of the band today. Well, we uh

1461
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 1: healthier than ever, playing better than ever. We put out

1462
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,879
Speaker 1: a fifty year celebration record UH in June of eighteen,

1463
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: Soul Side of Town. And when we made that record,

1464
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: we actually recorded two albums with the material. So today

1465
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: we have our new record coming out March twenty. It's

1466
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: called Step Up on mac Avenue Records. And then UH

1467
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: we recorded Are. We did a concert in Oakland at

1468
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: the Fox Theater and we had all these old members

1469
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,600
Speaker 1: of the band Colm, we had extra background vocalists and

1470
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: ten strings and just phenomenal gig. We filmed two nights

1471
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 1: and UH filmed it an HD. And so that's why

1472
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm in town. I'm mixing UH that live recording. And

1473
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: what's the plan for it? Fifty year DVD documentary on

1474
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,919
Speaker 1: Tower of Power? Okay, and you'll sell it to Netflix,

1475
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 1: Showtime somebody. That's the plan. Okay. How often does the

1476
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 1: band work? Two hundred days a year? We're out, But

1477
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: that's not all gigs. That's travel days and off days

1478
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: as well, so many gigs. I don't know, and Doc

1479
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: knows all that stuff, but I would say anywhere from

1480
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: But who books it? Now? We're with Paradigm. I had

1481
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: an agent for years that I actually put him in

1482
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: the business, Guy Richard he was with a p A

1483
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: funny was just talking about the kids. The name came

1484
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:36,560
Speaker 1: up last night, guys, funny. Yeah, I was out with

1485
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 1: some agents. Guy who works at a PA. He was tired.

1486
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 1: He had a health scare, right, he's saying, because that's

1487
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: how it came up, because he's we tired and said,

1488
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: you know, I want you to take over these acts. Okay,

1489
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 1: guys are great, great guy, How how did you put

1490
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 1: him in the business because we were having a hard time.

1491
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: We had a guy named Peter Shils. Do you remember

1492
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 1: Peter Shields and William Morris. We were with William Morris,

1493
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: guy named Peter Shil's biggest agent there and he handled us.

1494
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 1: But when things started to go south, you know, we

1495
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: needed gigs and he wasn't getting them and he's going, well,

1496
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, uh what was he was just waiting answering

1497
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: the phone because he had George Benson and Bill Cosby

1498
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of cocaine going on at William Morrison.

1499
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 1: Then there was a big bust. But before the bus happened,

1500
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: we went to Peter. We said, look, man, you know,

1501
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: we gotta do something. And Doc had started a little

1502
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: sideband and guy had booked him in San Diego at

1503
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,440
Speaker 1: San Diego State and he was like in the entertainment

1504
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,719
Speaker 1: banking part there and he wound up working and William

1505
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 1: Morrison the Fair Department. And Doc said, I know this

1506
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,600
Speaker 1: Mexican guy, Guy Richard, and he's at William Morris and

1507
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: he loves the band and he's a go getter. And

1508
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: so we went to Peter Shields and we said, you

1509
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: got a guy here named Guy Richard and he will

1510
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: get us gigs. And he goes, who go Guy Richard.

1511
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 1: He picks up the phone, he goes, he goes, where's

1512
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 1: he got to go to the Fair Department. You got

1513
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 1: a guy down there named Guy Richard? He go send

1514
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: him up. He's working for me. And so he comes

1515
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: up and he's Peter's assistant. And within two weeks Peter

1516
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: calls me and he says, uh, man, I gotta thank

1517
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 1: you man for what He goes, This guy is phenomenal.

1518
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: He goes, He's changed my whole office. Man, he's phenomenal.

1519
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 1: I love him, you know, a great make sure we

1520
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: get some gigs, you know, and pretty soon we're getting

1521
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 1: more geese because guys making it happen, you know. And

1522
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: then the Big bust happened over there for all the

1523
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:30,799
Speaker 1: cocaine and Peter Shields went down and Guy got his gig. Okay,

1524
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: so since Guy retired, who's your guy now? Now? We

1525
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 1: went over to Paradigm Gary Buck in Chicago and ron

1526
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 1: Kaplan here and we just signed with them. Okay. So

1527
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: are these all hard ticket or soft ticket dates? I

1528
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: don't know, man, and I don't think about that stuff. Okay,

1529
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: but are your hard tickets? Are you playing fairs or

1530
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 1: is there some are people paying just to see you?

1531
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 1: We're not doing that many fairs anyway. We were, we've

1532
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: been doing them, and Paradigm is changing all that, you know,

1533
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: we're doing like we we just started. We got four

1534
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 1: dates with a string cheese incident. I actually had to

1535
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: know them and Madison House the managers. That's something I know.

1536
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 1: I hear that they play some of our songs and

1537
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 1: they're saying they're fans of the band Game. I've seen them,

1538
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: but you know, it's one of these Gamans. They play

1539
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 1: something different every night, so maybe they do. Yeah, I

1540
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know them, but you know, we're

1541
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 1: doing red Rocks with them, and really so yeah, they're

1542
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: they're cooking an up a step, you know. Okay, So

1543
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: what kind of venues do you play when you headline

1544
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:35,600
Speaker 1: performance arts theaters? We play festivals, you know. We do

1545
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: the North c Jazz Festival, Monto Jazz Festival. We go

1546
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 1: over to Tokyo do Fuji Jazz, we do the Blue Notes,

1547
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: We do everything. Okay, And you still like going on

1548
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 1: the road. Yeah, and you know, depending on which day

1549
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:53,440
Speaker 1: you asked me, Yeah, you know, hig just got remarried.

1550
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: So what's keeping you occupied other than the two pages

1551
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 1: of the Bible when you're on the road. Well, I

1552
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 1: mean more than that, but uh, I know how to

1553
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: enjoy myself. That's not a problem. What do you know

1554
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 1: how to do the road? Okay? What do you how

1555
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: do you enjoy? I always get up. I study first

1556
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 1: thing I do in the morning. I renew my mind.

1557
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 1: Once I've done that, I know I can do the day.

1558
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 1: Then I work out, go out and get a nice

1559
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 1: meal and stand for sound check, go hang with my guys.

1560
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: These are the funniest guys in the world. We laugh

1561
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 1: a lot. And uh, and then I got friends all

1562
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:23,599
Speaker 1: over the place. I'm sure you do after all those

1563
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,719
Speaker 1: fifty years on the road. So this point in time.

1564
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 1: The people in the band, how many people in the

1565
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 1: band today? How long have those people been in the band? Well,

1566
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 1: Doc's been in the band almost fifty two years. I'm

1567
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: almost fifty two years. Garibaldi's he was out four times,

1568
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: he came back. Doc was in and out once too, right, Yeah,

1569
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 1: I fired him for a day here, Rocko, I fired

1570
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 1: for eight years. But he's not with us no more.

1571
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: I had to let him go, not let him. I

1572
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,600
Speaker 1: had to take him off the road. His health was

1573
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 1: not good. But Garibaldi was out eighteen years. The last

1574
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 1: time he was out, he came back. We think he's staying.

1575
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 1: And uh, the other guys, you know, seventeen to twenty years.

1576
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: We always laugh about it because you know these bands nowadays,

1577
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: they last a year and a half, two years. You know,

1578
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: our new guys are like seventeen eighty. But our singers, Uh,

1579
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: he's in three years now. How did you find him?

1580
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: Do you know Tony Coleman they call him TC. He

1581
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 1: was a drummer for BB King for years. Yeah, he

1582
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 1: called me up. I was looking for some singer and uh,

1583
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, checking out all those finalists on American Idol

1584
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,760
Speaker 1: and the Voice and calling all the runner ups and

1585
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 1: calling the people I trust. And Tony called me up

1586
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 1: and he says, hey, man, it's TC Goes. I heard

1587
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: this singer in Memphis. He's like a little any whims.

1588
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: You gotta check him out. Me me, you gotta check

1589
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 1: him up. And I go, all right, man, send me

1590
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:49,679
Speaker 1: some links, send me his info. I'll get in touch.

1591
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 1: And uh, he sent me some YouTube links of him.

1592
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 1: Soulful had that he was imitating Bobby Womack not immediately

1593
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 1: got my attention, and uh, it seemed like a nice guy.

1594
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:01,839
Speaker 1: Called him up and we decided to give him an audition.

1595
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 1: We narrowed it down to three people and we told

1596
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: him you got a fly to Vegas. We figured that's

1597
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 1: the cheapest, easiest flight for people, and they showed up

1598
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: and out of those three, we thought we'd take a

1599
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,719
Speaker 1: chance on him. Although I was concerned about his range

1600
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: because we typically need a high singer just because the

1601
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 1: band so powerful. You need somebody to soar over that,

1602
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: you know. And he had a decent range, but not phenomenal.

1603
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 1: But once he got in the band, his range like

1604
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 1: expanded unbelievably. He's thirty five, okay, and was he professional

1605
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 1: before he had a day job. No, no, he was well,

1606
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 1: he was a barber, you know, just defeat his wife

1607
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 1: and kids. But he was a singer. You know when

1608
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: when Tony Coleman went to uh like BB King had

1609
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:47,560
Speaker 1: passed and Tony was in charge of going to the

1610
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 1: different BB Kings and you know when they're opening the

1611
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: new Baby Kings. He put together the best musicians in

1612
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 1: town and you know, did a gig and so he

1613
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: went there and he said, you know, who's the baddest

1614
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: soul singer in town? And you know said Marcus. God,

1615
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: That's how I met him. Okay, you know the world

1616
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 1: has changed the relevant of the band. Let's just say,

1617
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet change things. And unlike in the seventies,

1618
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,759
Speaker 1: you had a major label deal, they would do marketing,

1619
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 1: everybody would know who you were. The record may happen

1620
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:19,759
Speaker 1: or not. Now anybody puts out a record, it's especially

1621
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: a band that has had previous success. It's hard to

1622
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: reach the audience and uh, it's hard to get the

1623
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 1: word out. Does that depress you No, because because my

1624
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: my trust is not in the business or in my

1625
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 1: music or you know, I know that God's going to

1626
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: take care of me no matter what. I'm blessed with

1627
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,280
Speaker 1: a great life. I play great music that I love,

1628
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 1: I play with great people that I love. They do

1629
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm already overpaid, so you know, they can

1630
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,760
Speaker 1: take half of it away, and I'm you know, they

1631
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,759
Speaker 1: can take it all away. I know I'm gonna be Okay,

1632
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 1: that's who I am, that's who I become. So I

1633
01:21:57,479 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: don't think about that. I'm not depressed over the state

1634
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: of the industry or what the industry thinks about me.

1635
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:03,680
Speaker 1: I'd love to be a big hit you know, I

1636
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 1: to be. Sometimes I think maybe it's a blessing you're not,

1637
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they want you to be a reality

1638
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: show or something. I don't want to do that kind

1639
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,679
Speaker 1: of crap, you know. I want to make great music

1640
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 1: and and have a be a class act in the industry,

1641
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 1: and so far I'm doing that. Okay. Any specific goals left, Um, yeah,

1642
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:22,880
Speaker 1: I want to push the envelope globally, you know. Uh.

1643
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 1: I want to record with other artists. I'd love to

1644
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: take Tower or Power and you know, do only so

1645
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 1: much oil in the ground version with sting Right. He

1646
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:32,719
Speaker 1: told me one time that was one of his favorite songs.

1647
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to do that you know, there's things I'd

1648
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:38,719
Speaker 1: like to do. But as I say, overpaid already. Okay,

1649
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: we've heard a lot about you. But talking a little

1650
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 1: bit more about the business. With all this experience, what

1651
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:51,839
Speaker 1: lessons have you learned? Business was, well, I don't chase trends.

1652
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 1: I stay true to myself, you know, on a musical level,

1653
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: on a personal level, you know, uh honest. And I

1654
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: tell the guys that I work with you and I said,

1655
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, live right, feel right. That's the short version.

1656
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,599
Speaker 1: If you're living right, you'll be feeling man. If you ain't,

1657
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna be feeling right. So I just try

1658
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,680
Speaker 1: to live a principal life. And you know, I let

1659
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: the cars fall where they may. Do you have a manager,

1660
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: now I do? He was living a management team. Now

1661
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: we decided we we hired a manager. We hired Jonathan Wilson.

1662
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: You know, I know him pretty well, good guy. You know,

1663
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 1: fired him after two weeks because he booked a tour

1664
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 1: that we just couldn't do. You know, we're like sixty

1665
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:34,679
Speaker 1: to seventy four years old, and uh he booked three weeks,

1666
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 1: uh and didn't taking the consideration, you know, the parameters

1667
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: that we need in order to continue doing what we're doing,

1668
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 1: and we want to do it for a long time,

1669
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: so we're not just gonna beat ourselves up, you know.

1670
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: And when my business manager, Diane Ricchi, tried to explain

1671
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 1: that to him, it took almost an hour, and then

1672
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 1: he finally yelled at her and said, you're sh and

1673
01:23:54,960 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 1: all over my Picasso. And uh. When she told me that, said,

1674
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 1: what do you want to do about this? Yes, I

1675
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 1: want to fire him, and I go, then you have

1676
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: my permission to do so. Okay, So Jonathan Wilson the

1677
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 1: last two weeks, then what happens? Well, then, Uh, my

1678
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 1: tour manager who has been in the business for years,

1679
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: Walter Verson. He used to be bodyguard for Freddie Mercury

1680
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 1: back in the day, and I met him through Heart

1681
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: when I used to work with Heart, and he's been

1682
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 1: tour manager for Rio Speedwagon for years. He did a

1683
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: lot of work in the management team for Phil Collins.

1684
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: He's been around for years. He's been doing doing tour

1685
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 1: managing for us for like the last couple of years now,

1686
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 1: and then and loves us and wants to be our manager. Well,

1687
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 1: I don't want to my manager, you know, I love him.

1688
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 1: I think he's a smart guy, but I don't want

1689
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 1: him to be my manager. But my my business manager, Diane,

1690
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:47,000
Speaker 1: who I trust, himplicitly says, uh, what do you want

1691
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 1: to do now Jonathan's out? What are we gonna do?

1692
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: You know? She says, we can make it for a

1693
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 1: few months, no problem. We're doing pretty good. But Ron

1694
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: Mesh our tour manager, and you know, the agent and

1695
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 1: me and we're all checking in. We gotta go. But

1696
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: it's a lot of work. And I go, I don't know,

1697
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? I have an idea,

1698
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 1: but I don't think you're gonna like it. Okay, what's that?

1699
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 1: She goes Walter Verson. I go, I don't want him

1700
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 1: to be my manager. She was, no, how about we

1701
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 1: put him on the team. And it's a team. I said, yeah,

1702
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: I can try that. So that's what it is. So

1703
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 1: it's all homming along. This has really been great talking

1704
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: to you, Amelia. It's like we could go on forever.

1705
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 1: I could see why you're successful, You're warm, you're endearing,

1706
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 1: and you tell a good story. Well, thanks for doing this.

1707
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob Left sets