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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy grace Well. Police say this is

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Speaker 1: the case of a fifty eight year old woman who

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Speaker 1: shot and killed her adult son and daughter inside her home,

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Speaker 1: apparently yesterday. The woman then shot and killed herself. It's

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Speaker 1: a story breaking hearts from Cobb County to Atlanta City Hall.

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Speaker 1: Marcia Edwards is the woman on the left, the mother

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Speaker 1: of daughter Aaron and son Christopher. Police say the mother

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Speaker 1: fired the shots that killed all three Wednesday night. We

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Speaker 1: didn't hear anything. There's no sign of any you know,

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Speaker 1: violence happening here. Kellya Kartal lives next door to the

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Speaker 1: Cobb County condo police visited Wednesday evening. Kartal is a

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Speaker 1: neighbor who'd gotten to know and appreciate the family. Just

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Speaker 1: a really nice family. Children, Aaron and Chris had exceedingly

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Speaker 1: promising futures. Just really bright, nice kind people. A mother

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Speaker 1: from a prominent Atlanta family shoots dead her son and daughter.

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Speaker 1: This is just hours after she posts to Instagram following

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Speaker 1: her return from an vacation to Italy. I could not

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Speaker 1: ask for better children. What happened in this wealthy gated

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Speaker 1: community of Vining's Park East. This woman guns down her

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Speaker 1: two children, her husband, a prominent orthopedic surgeon. And this

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Speaker 1: is just hours after posting photos on Facebook regarding her

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Speaker 1: vacation in Italy with her daughter. Prior to that, she

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Speaker 1: had been in Miami with her son. I mean, I see, Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Marsha, the mother who fired

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Speaker 1: the shots, had been married to Christopher Edwards, a surgeon

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Speaker 1: who leads the Atlanta Housing Authority Board. The family is

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Speaker 1: also longtime friends with Atlanta Mayer Keisha Lance Bottoms. Aaron

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Speaker 1: Edwards was an intern in the Mayor's office last summer.

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Speaker 1: Chris Edwards was a current employee in the Mayor's communications office.

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Speaker 1: In a statement, Bottom said, in part, Derek and I

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Speaker 1: joined the greater Atlantic community in mourning the loss of

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Speaker 1: three members of the beloved Edwards family. Chris and Aaron

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Speaker 1: were beautiful, vibrant, and brilliant young adults whom we had

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Speaker 1: the pleasure of knowing their entire lives. They filled the

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Speaker 1: lives of all who met them with joy, compassion and kindness.

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Speaker 1: Well educated, fantastic, wonderful, just great people. Yeah, which makes it,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot harder just to understand where you

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Speaker 1: know what went wrong, what happened, what caused this snap.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd referred to it as a

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Speaker 1: snap because under the law, isn't this right with me?

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Speaker 1: Our renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans joining me out of

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Speaker 1: New York. When you have the time to go get

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Speaker 1: a gun, to load the gun, to point the gun,

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Speaker 1: to pull the trigger, I mean, intent under the law

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Speaker 1: can be formed in the twinkling of an eye. She

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Speaker 1: killed both of her children. She shot them dead around

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Speaker 1: six pm in the evening. That's plenty of time to

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Speaker 1: form intent. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. You know, there doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to be anything that intervened in some way to be

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Speaker 1: some sort of you know, a factor regarding that, not

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Speaker 1: that we're aware of now. So it does seem to

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Speaker 1: some degree that there that there was an element of

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Speaker 1: planning to this or preparedness at the very least, joining

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Speaker 1: me right now and all Star panel to break it

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Speaker 1: down put it back together again. To Crime online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Dave Max started at the beginning, Dave,

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Speaker 1: what happened? Police were called by doctor Chris Edwards. He's

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Speaker 1: an orthopedic surgeon in Atlanta, one of the most well

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Speaker 1: known doctors in Atlanta, and he called them about a

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Speaker 1: welfare check because he hadn't gotten up with his son,

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Speaker 1: twenty four year old Chris the third. Now, Chris didn't

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Speaker 1: show up for work that day, and doctors had been

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Speaker 1: trying to get up with him, and when he couldn't

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Speaker 1: get up with him, found out he never showed up

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Speaker 1: for work. That's when doctor Edwards called the police and

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Speaker 1: just said, hey, would you mind going and checking my

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Speaker 1: ex wife's condo because I can't find my son anywhere

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Speaker 1: and can't get up with my ex wife. I can't

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Speaker 1: get up with my daughter. And that's when the police

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Speaker 1: showed up at six o'clock that evening. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to WSBA reporter, This is Tom Reagan. There'll a lot

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Speaker 1: of unanswered questions on this triple shooting that happened here

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Speaker 1: at this town home complex just a few blocks away

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Speaker 1: from Cumberland Mall. But as you reference, we have through

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Speaker 1: a family friend, have been able to identify the three victims.

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Speaker 1: They are the former wife and the two adult children.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, a prominent community leader and surgeon that

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Speaker 1: is doctor Christopher Edwards. He is a orthopedic surgeon and

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Speaker 1: chair of the Atlanta Housing Authority. A detectives have left

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Speaker 1: the scene here for now, but I want to show

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Speaker 1: you what it looked like. Late last night, A police

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Speaker 1: and detectives were going through the area looking for evidence

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Speaker 1: and interviewing neighbors. A police were called here to do

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Speaker 1: a welfare check around six o'clock last night. That's when

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Speaker 1: they found the three bodies, two adult women and a

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Speaker 1: man inside a town home here at the complex. At

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Speaker 1: this point, police are not saying whether they believe this

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Speaker 1: is a case of murder or murder suicide. They're still

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Speaker 1: investigating this. This triple shooting obviously has shaken many in

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Speaker 1: this town home complex. We'll be working throughout the afternoon

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Speaker 1: to get more information about the shootings and a possible motive.

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Speaker 1: Two Dodgor Robbie Ludwig psychologists joining us from her Facebook

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Speaker 1: live program at Times Square. Dotor Robbie question to you,

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that this was a snap moment.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if you recall covering this case

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Speaker 1: with me or not, but there was a mom, her

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Speaker 1: name Julie Schineker, about the same age as Martha Edwards,

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Speaker 1: had two children, not taughts, not infants, because, Robbie, we

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Speaker 1: see a lot of moms that murder small children. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I could list them on and on and on. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Andrew Yates is a perfect example. Dan LaSIE another example.

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Speaker 1: But in these two cases, the children are older. She

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Speaker 1: just got on an Italian vacation with the daughter, Aaron,

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Speaker 1: as she had been down visiting the son, Chris in Miami.

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Speaker 1: In the case I'm telling you about Julie Scheneker, her

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Speaker 1: children were in high school and she was irritated with

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Speaker 1: them for talking back to her, so she murdered them.

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Speaker 1: She was also angry at the husband, who was in

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Speaker 1: the military and was gone all the time. I think

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Speaker 1: this was more revenge and hate of two wonderful children,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Robby, I don't think she just snapped. Well, clearly

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Speaker 1: she did snap, but there could have been, and probably was,

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Speaker 1: some severe character disorder or mental health issue that she

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Speaker 1: was struggling with. How about just plain old angry, revenge,

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Speaker 1: fed up, frustrated, worn out, bitter. How about that that's

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Speaker 1: not a mental defense, That's true. But you know, hopefully

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Speaker 1: if you're feeling that degree of anger and you are

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Speaker 1: somewhat stable, then you can cope with that. Rage and

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Speaker 1: neutralize it to some extent, and you don't act out

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Speaker 1: in murder. Otherwise we'd have a lot more people murdered

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Speaker 1: than we already do. But I agree with you, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: This motive appears to be all about revenge and feeling

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Speaker 1: that she had no life without this husband, and not

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Speaker 1: wanting her husband to have these two kids. She is

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Speaker 1: punishing him, and punishment she's certainly induced by killing her

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Speaker 1: two kids, who sounded like fabulous people, and killing herself,

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Speaker 1: which eliminated all future possibility. Dot Robbie, you know how

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Speaker 1: I feel about you and your family, right, But have

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Speaker 1: you ever heard the phrase flip flop? Because that's what

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Speaker 1: you just did, and I mean you did it in

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Speaker 1: a spectacular fashion. You said that this was mental defect,

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Speaker 1: uncontrollable rage and anger, bitter resentment. You can't have it

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Speaker 1: both ways legally. Legally, you cannot, Jason Oceans, under the law,

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Speaker 1: there is no defense. I've snapped. That is a show

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Speaker 1: on Oxygen Okay, my TV home. There's no such thing

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Speaker 1: as snap. You don't just snap. You act out of rage.

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Speaker 1: Rage is not a defense under the law. Bitter bitter

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Speaker 1: that her husband had divorced her and he was a

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Speaker 1: star in the Atlanta social elite and going on with

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Speaker 1: his life as an orthopedic surgeon. Bitter. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what took over this woman, but snap, and you can

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Speaker 1: quote me on this. This is technical legal talk. Snap

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Speaker 1: and a defense. I agree with you. Snap. Snap is

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Speaker 1: never a defense. But clearly she did. And as a

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Speaker 1: result of no, you and Robbie second verse same as

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Speaker 1: the first. No, you can't say there is no snap,

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Speaker 1: but she did. No, I'm not using that in a

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Speaker 1: psychological term, which is clearly what she did. But yes,

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Speaker 1: this was rageful. She committed murder. Uh. And as as

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Speaker 1: doctor Robbie said, revenge or whatever was motivating her, you

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Speaker 1: said it as well. She was. She was angry at

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Speaker 1: the life and wanted to deny her husband the ability

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Speaker 1: to have any connection to it. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: she snapped doesn't take away that this was seemingly premeditated. Uh,

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Speaker 1: in many respects having them both together at the same time,

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Speaker 1: they were in different places over the summer. One was

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Speaker 1: in turning up in New York. So I do believe

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Speaker 1: that it was planned. And uh, you know took that

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Speaker 1: moment and whatever it was, and you know, went forward

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Speaker 1: and did It Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Marcia Edwards

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Speaker 1: facebook page is filled with images of her children, Chris

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Speaker 1: and Aaron. She served several pictures celebrating her son Chris's

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Speaker 1: birthday in June, calling him her best guy and her

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Speaker 1: daughter Aaron her best girl, and within the last few days,

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Speaker 1: she posted multiple times from a trip to Italy with

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Speaker 1: her daughter, sharing dozens of photos and videos over several days,

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Speaker 1: visiting famous sights, smiling, toasting, and posing for the camera.

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Speaker 1: And in July, Marsha posted pictures from an Independence Day

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Speaker 1: trip to Destin with her son Chris. Marsha also posted

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Speaker 1: about Aaron's internships with the City of Atlanta and CNN.

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Speaker 1: She shared articles Erin wrote while recently interning for NBC

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Speaker 1: and traveled to New York to see her. Over the summer,

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Speaker 1: Aaron's page shows she was studying at Boston University. She

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Speaker 1: frequently tagged her mother in post, sharing pictures of them

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Speaker 1: together and writing how proud she was of all her

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Speaker 1: mom had accomplished. When she was honored in April as

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Speaker 1: a small business owner and community leader by the Women

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Speaker 1: Works media group as one of Atlanta's one hundred most

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Speaker 1: Powerful and influential women of twenty nineteen. Just before two

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Speaker 1: brutal murderers, mom Marcia Edwards post on social media about

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Speaker 1: how she enjoyed her vacation in Italy with her daughter.

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Speaker 1: That ain't cheap, sharing pictures in Vatican City, Rome, Venice,

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Speaker 1: toasting quote, fortunate to have dinner at the Vatican after

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Speaker 1: our tour. Okay, the very same day as the killing,

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Speaker 1: she posted Instagram, I've had the best summer first with

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Speaker 1: my son Chris and Miami and Aaron and Italy. I

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Speaker 1: could not ask for better children. Okay, before I get

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Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher and medical examiner for the State

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Speaker 1: of Florida, just drink this in for a moment. How

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Speaker 1: do people get so caught up? And you know, some

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Speaker 1: people are caught up in money. Obviously these people were rich,

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Speaker 1: because Vinings is huge. I've driven through there before. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I had my twins one of their Easter photos taken

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Speaker 1: with bunnies at a little what do you say boutique

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Speaker 1: in Vinings, and I felt like a dog upstairs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I knew I was not supposed to be there, and

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Speaker 1: I got that picture and left. I mean that homes

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Speaker 1: are like castles on these rolling lots, you know, wooded,

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Speaker 1: gated communities, the whole shebang. So these people are lacking

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Speaker 1: for nothing. So many people all caught up in the trappings,

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Speaker 1: the money, the society, the prestige position. What car you drive,

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Speaker 1: what clothes you wear, what home you live in, what's

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Speaker 1: your zip code? Long story short, You also see it

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Speaker 1: when you show off your children. And now I'm guilty

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Speaker 1: of this. I'm not too hung up on my beat

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Speaker 1: up minivan or my cowboy boots, but I have been

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Speaker 1: proud of my children, going, oh, John David did this,

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Speaker 1: Lucy did that, blah blah blah blah. And you can

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Speaker 1: see Marsha Edwards touting her children like their trophies. My

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Speaker 1: daughters at BU, my daughter had an internship at NBC.

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Speaker 1: My son this my daughter that did it go too far?

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Speaker 1: And did she not get what she thought she deserved

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Speaker 1: back for all the years she devoted to her children

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Speaker 1: and husband, Doctor Tim Gallagher, Before I go into the

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Speaker 1: thinking of moms that murder their children, how do we know,

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Speaker 1: and this is the medical examiner for the State of Florida,

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Speaker 1: how do you know from the angles, the trajectory paths,

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Speaker 1: the entry and exit wounds that she killed Chris and Aaron,

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Speaker 1: her son and daughter, not that one of them killed her.

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Speaker 1: How do you tell that? Well, that's always a tough

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Speaker 1: decision to make. It's always a tough assumption to make.

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Speaker 1: You have to look at the circumstances that are leading

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Speaker 1: up to the the crime itself. You'd have to inspect

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Speaker 1: the crime scene very carefully. You have to look for

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Speaker 1: the blood trails. Was there a struggle, is there is

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Speaker 1: the house secured? You know? Are they inside of a

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Speaker 1: locked house? Is there any sign of somebody else being involved?

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Speaker 1: Is there anyone there is another sign of somebody breaking

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Speaker 1: into the home? Was it a was it a robbery?

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Speaker 1: Can you eliminate that? You know? Um fingerprints on the

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Speaker 1: gun would certainly help if the if the weapon was recovered,

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Speaker 1: if it was her fingerprints on the gun and only

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Speaker 1: hers and the children's blood on the gun as well,

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Speaker 1: then that is certainly compelling evidence that it was her

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Speaker 1: that committed the crime and nobody else was involved. Also,

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Speaker 1: for instance, if they just imagine Jeff Cortisi for f

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Speaker 1: be a special agent. Just imagine let's pick on Jackie

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Speaker 1: Howard here in the studio. If she's sitting there at

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Speaker 1: the radio board, as I call it, all the equipment

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Speaker 1: in front of her. She got her heads bones on,

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Speaker 1: she's drinking her coffee because my instant coffee is beneath her. Say,

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Speaker 1: I sneak up behind her and I shoot her in

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Speaker 1: the back of the head. I would never do that, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: just know that deep inside. But you can tell Jeff

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Speaker 1: that the victim can't shoot themselves in the back of

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Speaker 1: the head. Hey, that's physically impossible. So for instance, the

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Speaker 1: gunshot wound is in the back, or the back of

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Speaker 1: the head, or the back itself. That tells you right

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Speaker 1: there that they were not the ones that did the killing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's correct, Nancy. You know, as the doctor had mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you know, the I seen analysis is going to incorporate

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Speaker 1: a look at everything from a gun, gunshot residue, gunpowder

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Speaker 1: residue on hands, shirts, trajector whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 1: I'm drinking from a fire hydrant here, Jeff CORTEZI you're

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Speaker 1: the FBI special agent. You got a dummy down for

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Speaker 1: the rest of us. Explain how and under what circumstances

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Speaker 1: gunshot residue can be found. Sure, so, through the analysis

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Speaker 1: of a crime scene when when a firearm is discharged,

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Speaker 1: gunshot residue is ejected from from the gun and it

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Speaker 1: will spray on the hand of the person squeezing the trigger.

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Speaker 1: And depending on the distance between the gun and the

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Speaker 1: person who is being shot, there could also be gunshot

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Speaker 1: residue on the shirt or pants, or head or face

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Speaker 1: of the person that is being shot. So that could

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Speaker 1: give you some sense of trajectory and identify people involved. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about a beautiful mother of two children,

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Speaker 1: Chris and Aaron Edwards. They were young adults. Why kill them? Why? Now?

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Speaker 1: Apparently there is no doubt that mommy did the killings,

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Speaker 1: whether it's from where the victims were found, the nature

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Speaker 1: of the gunshot wounds to them, the trajectory pass I mean,

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Speaker 1: was one asleep, was one sitting at a computer with

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Speaker 1: their back turned? We don't know. Police are not releasing it,

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Speaker 1: but we do know mommy pulled the trigger. And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter how rich you are, how connected you are,

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Speaker 1: murder still happens. Take a listen to eleven Allies. Doug Richards. Marsha,

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Speaker 1: the mother who fired the shots, had been married to

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Speaker 1: Christopher Edwards, a surgeon who leads the Atlanta Housing Authority Board.

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Speaker 1: The family is also longtime friends with Atlanta Mayer Keisha

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Speaker 1: Lance Bottoms. Aaron Edwards was an intern in the Mayor's

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Speaker 1: office last summer. Chris Edwards was a current employee in

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Speaker 1: the Mayor's communications office. In a statement, Bottom said, in part,

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Speaker 1: Derek and I joined the greater Atlantic community in mourning

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Speaker 1: the loss of three members of the beloved Edwards family.

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Speaker 1: Chris and Aaron were beautiful, vibrant, and brilliant young adults

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Speaker 1: whom we had the pleasure of knowing their entire lives.

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Speaker 1: They filled the lives of all who met them with joy,

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Speaker 1: compassion and kindness. Well educated, fantastic, wonderful, just bright people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which makes it, you know, a lot harder just to

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Speaker 1: understand where you know, what went wrong, what happened? What

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Speaker 1: caused this? Snap crime stories with Nancy Grace, what investigation?

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Speaker 1: So At around six o'clock tonight, Cobb County Police Department

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Speaker 1: uniform officers were dispatched to thirty two six Nobility Way

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Speaker 1: in reference to a welfare check. Upon arrival, they located

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Speaker 1: three deceased inside the home, all adults, two females and

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Speaker 1: one male, and it appears that it's from gunshots. As

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Speaker 1: far as relationship goes, it appears they live in the household,

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Speaker 1: but we haven't confirmed the specific relationship between those inside

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Speaker 1: the home. It's active, it's still an investigation, and we

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Speaker 1: don't have any further details at this time. It is

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Speaker 1: qualified as a murder suicide. It's still under investigation. Is

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Speaker 1: there any obvious signs of unbreaking. I don't have any

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Speaker 1: information on that. Are we looking for anyone tonight. It's

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Speaker 1: still an active investigation. Ages are the victims, they're adults.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the ages. All three are over eighteen.

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Speaker 1: All your adults say it again, it's it's it's what

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Speaker 1: was the mall? I'm sorry? What was the mix? It's

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Speaker 1: two females and one male, said the weapon? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's there's still investigators inside the residents. You said there

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Speaker 1: was a welfare check. What we had it on a

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Speaker 1: certain timeframe to hope setting her from these people. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what prompted the welfare check. I know that

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Speaker 1: that is what brought officers to this location. Today you

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Speaker 1: are hearing a police conference after two children, Chris and

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Speaker 1: Aaron Edwards, found dead. The shooter. Mommy, what led Marcia

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Speaker 1: Edwards to turn the gun on her two children. They

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Speaker 1: seem to have it all, lots of money, social prestige,

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Speaker 1: great schools, Italian vacations, of the works. And this is

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Speaker 1: just after mommy post to Instagram. I could not ask

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Speaker 1: for better children. Take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: DEBUTVM looking to the case of a mother who police

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Speaker 1: say killed her two adult children and then herself. Police

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Speaker 1: are calling to incident a double murder suicide. Doctor for

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Speaker 1: Christopher Edwards, a Columbus native and the son of doctor

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Speaker 1: Delmore Edwards, who was the first African American in Columbus,

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Speaker 1: is still grieving after finding his two grown children and

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Speaker 1: ex wife dead in the mother's Atlanta home last Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: There will not be a public viewing, but the funeral

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Speaker 1: arrangements will be held at eleven am on the twenty

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Speaker 1: eighth at Cascade United Methodist Church in Atlanta. You know

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Speaker 1: what that tells me to doctor Tim Gallagher, State of

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Speaker 1: Florida Medical Examiner, that they very likely were shot in

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Speaker 1: the face or the head. When there's not an open casket,

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Speaker 1: there's usually a reason for that, doctor Gallagher. That is

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Speaker 1: generally it the damage done by that sort of attack

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Speaker 1: would certainly not invite itself to an open casket funeral.

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Speaker 1: I feel awful about this. You know, these are some

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Speaker 1: of the worst possible crime scenes to attend, and it's

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Speaker 1: just an awful, awful story, you know. I keep hearing

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Speaker 1: Jason Oceans and doctor Robbie Ludwig saying that she quote snapped,

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Speaker 1: she quote snapped, Doctor Robbie Ludwig. What do you think

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Speaker 1: about potential resentment over her husband who divorced her, succeeding

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Speaker 1: and being taken back into high society while she continued

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Speaker 1: to be alone. Yeah, I mean, I think alone is

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Speaker 1: a very important point here. We don't know what she

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Speaker 1: found out. Maybe she found out her ex had a

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Speaker 1: new girlfriend. Maybe it was a new younger girlfriend. But

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Speaker 1: what's interesting about killing adult children versus younger children is

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Speaker 1: I wonder if this woman felt like everybody was leaving

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Speaker 1: her at the same time, everybody was having a new

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Speaker 1: life at the same time except for her. So when

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Speaker 1: your kids are in their twenties, then they're kind of

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Speaker 1: going off into their own future. They're more independent, they

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Speaker 1: have their own lives, And it sounds like this is

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Speaker 1: a woman who was preoccupied and had a fear of

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Speaker 1: being abandoned and now everyone was going off to have

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Speaker 1: a beautiful future except for herself. And that's where the

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Speaker 1: suicidality can come in, and of course the revenge comes in.

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Speaker 1: If I can't have a life, then I'm going to

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Speaker 1: make sure that my kids don't leave me and that

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Speaker 1: my husband is punished too. Jason Hin's New York defense

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Speaker 1: attorney weight in, Well, clearly, Nancy from from the end result,

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Speaker 1: this was something premeditated, at least in thought, I if

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Speaker 1: not an action, something that she contemplated, and you know

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Speaker 1: clearly waiting for the right time that they would all

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Speaker 1: be together, you know, the weapons there, they have separate lives,

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Speaker 1: and so there was something going on that you know

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Speaker 1: that was a trigger and then you know, waited to pounce.

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Speaker 1: Un't I don't know. You know, we're using the words snapped,

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Speaker 1: and I've used it, but something did along the way

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Speaker 1: and U and there we have, you know, a double

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Speaker 1: honicide and a suicide. So the first time a mom

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Speaker 1: has a murder her children. Here's a semial case that

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Speaker 1: brought the issue to the national forefront. Rusty yates praise

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Speaker 1: and hugs his family and a camelliited vigil in front

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Speaker 1: of the courthouse where his wife, Andrea Yates, was convicted

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Speaker 1: of capital murder for drowning their five young children. Last June.

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Speaker 1: Weave and jury find the defendant, Andrea Pah, guilty of

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Speaker 1: capital murder as charged in the indictment. Yates showed little

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Speaker 1: reaction in the courtroom to the verdict, but, according to

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Speaker 1: defense attorney George Parnon, Yates is upset. Rusty Yates dropped

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Speaker 1: his head in his hands and cried at the verdict.

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Speaker 1: On the opposite side of the courtroom, yates mother, Karen Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: appeared visibly shaken after seventeen days of emotional and also

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Speaker 1: the heart aking testimony. Jews took just three and a

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Speaker 1: half hours to reach their decision, all but one avoiding

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Speaker 1: looking at Yates as they returned to render their verday

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Speaker 1: garry hearing about Andrea Yates, who murdered five of her children.

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Speaker 1: So often we see that the children are younger in age,

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Speaker 1: taughts or infants when the mother murders them. If you guys,

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Speaker 1: recall in the Andrea Yates case, her husband, Rusty Yates,

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Speaker 1: was a religious fanatic, and he ishued I recall he

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Speaker 1: was highly educated, maybe as an engineer, and he issued

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Speaker 1: all belongings, and he took his family and made them

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Speaker 1: live in a school bus for a period of time.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine a mom alone all day with five

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Speaker 1: children living in a school bus? Is the way I

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Speaker 1: remember it, talk about frustration. She ended up murdering all

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Speaker 1: five of her children. So let me ask you this

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Speaker 1: to doctor Robbie Ludwig's like collegist. Was the differentiation that

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Speaker 1: mom killing very young children, which is typically what we

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Speaker 1: see here, Like in the Julie Shitaker case out of Florida,

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Speaker 1: the children were up in age. These were young adults,

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Speaker 1: Aaron and Chris Well. I think the difference here is,

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Speaker 1: first of all, Andrea Yates was psychotic, so she truly

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Speaker 1: did not know the difference between right and wrong. Whoa

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Speaker 1: whoa whoa wait wait, I don't know if you recall

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Speaker 1: the facts, all of them, doctor Robbie, Because she intentionally

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Speaker 1: waited till her husband went to work that morning. She

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Speaker 1: locked the doors so none of the children could get

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Speaker 1: out and nobody could get in. She took the children

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Speaker 1: one by one away from each other, so they couldn't help.

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Speaker 1: The children couldn't help each other. One the tiniest child.

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Speaker 1: The little baby girl was covered in bruises where she

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Speaker 1: tried not to be drowned dead, fought back, but she

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Speaker 1: was covered in bruises because her mother held her down

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Speaker 1: then laid them out formally on a bed and then

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Speaker 1: call nine one one and said, I've done a terrible thing.

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Speaker 1: Now in my mind, that shows she knew very well

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Speaker 1: what she did wrong. And remember Ajorie found her guilty

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Speaker 1: but mentally ill Okay, guilty, Okay, not insane where you

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Speaker 1: don't know what's wrong at the time the incident, but guilty.

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Speaker 1: G b am I guilty but mentally well. There was

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Speaker 1: something in that case right where there was a mental

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Speaker 1: illness that was not being addressed. She was not allowed

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00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: to take care of herself or her mental well being

427
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: and had postpartum psychosis. That could be a reason in

428
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: some cases. In other cases it's because the children are

429
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: somehow in the way of the mother having the life

430
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: she wants to have or the boyfriend she wants to have,

431
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 1: and the kids are very demanding and the woman is

432
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: let's say, in some cases, was not allowed to have

433
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: of an abortion and so engages in a murder after

434
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: the fact or after the child is born. This is

435
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: something very different. It sounds like this woman had a

436
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: character disorder where she was preoccupied with being left and

437
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: being abandoned and probably was highly erratic. Time stories with

438
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: Nancy grace Well. Police say this is the case of

439
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: a fifty eight year old woman who shot and killed

440
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: her adult son and daughter inside her home apparently yesterday.

441
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: The woman then shot and killed herself. It's a story

442
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: breaking hearts from Cobb County to Atlanta City Hall. Marcia

443
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: Edwards is the woman on the left, the mother of

444
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: daughter Aaron and son Christopher. Police say the mother fired

445
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: the shots that killed all three Wednesday night. We didn't

446
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: hear anything. There's no sign of any you know, violence

447
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: happening or Kellia Kartal lives next door to the Cobb

448
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: Counted condo police visited Wednesday evening. Kartal is a neighbor

449
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: who'd gotten to know and appreciate the family. Just a

450
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: really nice family. Aaron and Chris had exceedingly promising futures.

451
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: Just really bright, nice kind people. You were hearing eleven

452
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: Lives Doug Richards talking about Marcia Edwards who shoots and

453
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: kills her son Chris and her daughter Aaron the neighbors

454
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: talking about the family, and if you noticey I'll talk

455
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: about how accomplished and educated the family was. That did

456
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: not save the children from death at the hands of mommy.

457
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: Why do moms kill? This is an extremely unusual case

458
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: because when mom's kill, they normally kill children that are very,

459
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: very young, infants or taught. We were just talking about

460
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: the Andrea Yates case. But then there's the Deanna Laney murders.

461
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: Dianna Laney murdered her little boys, eight year old Joshua

462
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: six year old Luke by beating them over the head

463
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: with a rock, slamming it down with all her strength

464
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: against her child's skull, both of them, Luke and Joshua.

465
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: She tried to kill their youngest son, fourteen month old Aaron,

466
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: in the same way. He managed to live, but suffered

467
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: intense serious head injuries. Now, according to Laney, God ordered

468
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: her to murder her children. Okay, Dave matt with me

469
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. What more do we

470
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: know about this mom? Marsha Edwards. Actually, we know a lot,

471
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: and here's what we're looking at is that the post

472
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: that she made about the vacations with both her children

473
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: over the last year. It almost was like a goodbye tour,

474
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: like a farewell tour, because she only made about two

475
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year in her own business. Well wait, wait, wait, wait,

476
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: what did you just say? Did you just say she

477
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: only made two hundred thousand dollars a year? Did that

478
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: just come out of your mouth? That is a yes,

479
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: no question, Dave Max, Yes, ma'am, it did only made Well,

480
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: what do you think Alimonian child support is, Dave Mack.

481
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, The husband's an orthopedic surgeon, and that

482
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: was him giving some press conference about athletes. He's got.

483
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: You know, she's got her own background as a medical doctor.

484
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: But five years ago, in twenty fourteen, she left his

485
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: practice and started her own company. I looked it up.

486
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: And when you actually look at the business of her company,

487
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: which is a medical supply thing, she's the only employee

488
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: and they reported earnings of pre tax two hundred thousand dollars. Now,

489
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: and we don't know anything about Alimoni or child support.

490
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: Robbie Ludwig, doctor, Robbie Ludwig, doctor, Robbie Alimonian child support,

491
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: that's just a given with wealthy people. Of course there's

492
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: Alimonian child support. Well, there may not have been child

493
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: support because the children are older, so once the kids

494
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: are adults. I do believe and listen, it may vary

495
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: from state to state, but I don't think this had

496
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: anything to do with finances. This had to do with

497
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: being left and that this mother did not feel she

498
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: had anything to look forward to in her life, and

499
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: the rest of her family did. Her husband may have

500
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: had a younger girlfriend. Both her kids were going to

501
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: go off and have their own careers and their own futures.

502
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: They were all leaving her at the same time, and

503
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: this was something that she simply could not have happened

504
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: and she could not tolerate, especially when she was probably

505
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: profoundly depressed about herself and what she had available to

506
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: her moving forward. So what we see very often with

507
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: Instagram and when you go on an adult trip with

508
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: your adult children. Any mother knows that there are moments,

509
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: there are moments that really don't go well, and sometimes

510
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: times the posting is about how you want your life

511
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: to come off, how you want your life to be.

512
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily reflect the reality, but it reflects the

513
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: hope of how you hope other people will view your

514
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: life and how you want to view your life. Doctor

515
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner for the State of Florida.

516
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: What does this scenario tell you about the violence involved

517
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: in these murderers? Well, the crime scene can certainly tell

518
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: you about the violence of the attack. Some things that

519
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: we look for in our medical examiner's office is how

520
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: many times were each of the victims shot. Oftentimes in

521
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: times of a very high emotional stress, will find that

522
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: the victims are shot, but quite a number of times,

523
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: ten twenty thirty times, something that we call overkill. And

524
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: this is an emotional reaction that they're having at the

525
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: time that they're killing the person that they tend to

526
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: over kill them to keep shooting at them even when

527
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: clearly they are deceased, So that is an emotional release

528
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: that they have during the act. Other things that we

529
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: look for is the severity of the defense wounds. Were

530
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: they victims of violently defending themselves? Does the place does

531
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: the crime scene show a really disturbed or ransacked type

532
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: apartment or ransacked type a conda where they were. So

533
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: all of these things, when put together, can show the

534
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: circumstances leading up to the fatal act and the emotion

535
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: that was involved that may have triggered the way. Jeff Cortes,

536
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: former FBI special agent way in. I think at this

537
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: point in the investigation, much of the emphasis is going

538
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: to be on determining motivation and degree of planning. You know,

539
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: they're going to want to understand at what point, you know,

540
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: the gun was acquired. They're gonna be looking at emails,

541
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: text messages between the family members, talking to the husband, neighbors, friends,

542
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: and looking to as you know. I think doctor Ludwood

543
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: Ludwig insightly outlined looking for the motivation behind it, all

544
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: the h the extent of the planning, so that we

545
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: could identify red flags in the future that might be

546
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: helpful in stopping these types of crimes from happening to

547
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: other families. Jason Ocean's defense attorney out of New York.

548
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: What do you think a tragic occurrence for the city US. Certainly,

549
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: folks should be on people being aware of of what's

550
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: going on around them when it's premeditated within a family.

551
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: In an aspect of crime like this, Uh, people have

552
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: to be more alert, see something, say something. I think

553
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: that's critical. I think doctor Gallagher talked about that and

554
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: certain triggers. That's really the pre eminent aspect of the

555
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: takeaway from this tragedy. Perhaps that couldn't have been avoided,

556
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: but we'd like to think that going forward, we can

557
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: do better as a society in being alert to mental

558
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: health issues. We wait as justice and falls. Nancy Grace

559
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,