1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:01,520 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 2: Cheryl Atkinson is our guest. The book is Stonewalled. You 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: can pick it up anywhere. It is her story. According 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: to the book's cover, it is stonewalld my fight for 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 2: truth against the forces of obstruction, intimidation, and harassment in 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 2: Obama's Washington. She is a major part of the Fast 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: and Furious story, the Bengazi story. She has covered the 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: green energy scam, and she was personally spied on by 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: our government. She was inside CBS as well as CNN 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 2: and some other of the major news networks news organizations. 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: But her story about CBS and her willingness to tell 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: it is enlightening, to say the least. Odd programming note 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: for those of you in Portland joining us uh into 14 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: the show. We completed earlier today our portion of the 15 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: interview on Fast and Furious, and so you won't have 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: a chance to hear that, but I want to tell 17 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: you that if you do want to hear that, and 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: I don't say this often, you can go to our 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: website at Michael Berry dot com and you can go 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: to the podcast and pick up the eight a m. 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: Hour. 22 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 2: Because some of you probably know Cheryl Atkinson from her 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: Fast and furious experience and sort of breaking that story 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: and making it a household story, making it a making 25 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: it a story that we all focused on in the 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: in the in the noise. That is so many different 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: stories out there, So if you want that, go to 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: our podcast. 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: And you can hear that interview. 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: We are now talking about her involvement in the Benghazi story. 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: Cheryl Akinson. As you dove into that story, you say 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: you weren't getting answers to things you thought you could. 33 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: What was the first big question that wasn't being answered? 34 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: You talk about the lack of a response when we 35 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: have guys training to do that. What was the thing 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 2: that made you say, wait a second, there's something going 37 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: on here. 38 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: Well this may sound silly, but at first I'm just 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: trying to get a handle on what happened that night 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: the facts, and the administration wouldn't even give us those. 41 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 3: They wouldn't tell us when the attacks began and when 42 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: the attacks ended. Three weeks into this, of course they 43 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 3: knew all of the timing with precision, and yet I 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 3: kept asking, Actually, at that point they had said there 45 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: was only one attack, So when did the attack end? 46 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: What was the timeline? So I started getting various timelines. 47 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 3: I kept asking them, why wouldn't they tell us when 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: it ended? I think in the end that's because they 49 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 3: were implying initially it only went on a short period 50 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 3: of time, because they didn't want us to know it 51 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 3: went on for so many hours that they could have 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: done some sort of rescue. 53 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: And how many hours did it go on? 54 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 3: I believe it was over six and a half in 55 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: the end, so it was plenty of time. That we 56 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 3: had so much many bases nearby that theoretically something could 57 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 3: have been mounted, including Special Forces Tier one assets that 58 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 3: were not terribly far away. 59 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: Let's dive in one of the issues you first you 60 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: bring up that was Christopher Stevens, the ambassador. The administration 61 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: seemed to be suggesting that he'd sort of gone rogue, 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: that he went to Benghazi and had left the Capitol. 63 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: But you found that not to be true. 64 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 3: That was another yes, another sort of warning sign or 65 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: something that alerted me there was more to the story. 66 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: There were a lot of whisper campaigns going on by 67 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: administration people who would say things not really on the record, 68 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: but wanted you to think something. And one of the 69 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 3: things I kept hearing that they wanted us to think, was, gee, 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: you know. 71 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 4: I'm not sure. 72 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,839 Speaker 3: They would say, I'm not sure we even knew Chris 73 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: Stevens was going down to ben Ghazi, which struck me 74 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: as strange because I think at any given time they 75 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: probably do know where the ambassador of a nation is, 76 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: the ambassador of our nation representing an the country. And 77 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: in the end, yes, they did know. According to his 78 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 3: number two, they did know he was going down there. 79 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: There's sort of a whose where list that's distributed. They 80 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 3: knew well in advance that he planned to go down 81 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: there for a couple of days, and that there was 82 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: a list each day he was down there as well. 83 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: Whether he was authorized to go or not was an issue. 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: You pointed out that there seemed to be some spin. 85 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: Another one was, as you write, on a difficult assignment 86 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: in Libya, Stephens wasn't the kind to whine or complain 87 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: when his security requests were denied. Given the choice to 88 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 2: go to Benghazi with the protection he had or not 89 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: go at all, he would always have chosen the former. 90 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: To sit behind the relative safety of the walls the 91 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: Posh Embassy in Tripoli would be no kind of job 92 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: for a man like him. It wouldn't be a job 93 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: worth having. Stevens served only three short months as the 94 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: US ambassador to Libya before being murdered by terrorist thugs. 95 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: Did Christopher Stevens ask for more security? 96 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: That was denied over. 97 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: And over, And so that's another contradiction. The administration tried 98 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: to imply that he hadn't. But the reason they're sort 99 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 3: of relying on processes or people's lack of understanding of 100 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: process is to make people believe that Chris Stevens would 101 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 3: go through the channels, sort of these backdoor channels and 102 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 3: conversations they had for extra security. He would write emails, 103 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: he would be told verbally that he was not going 104 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: to get extra security he and his staff, and so 105 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 3: they would try to troubleshoot it by modifying their requests. 106 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 3: So in the end, he and his regional security officer 107 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: repeatedly asked for more security and was denied security. But 108 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: and the administration came around to acknowledging that. But initially 109 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: they were implying as though he hadn't asked for more 110 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 3: and that he himself must have felt safe because there 111 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: he went to Benghazi. But those who knew him said, 112 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 3: it's not that he felt safe. They had questions every 113 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: day about security, but he certainly was not going to 114 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 3: just stay holed up and not do his job as 115 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: ambassadors simply because he couldn't get this security he felt 116 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: he needed. 117 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: Cheryl Akinson is our guest. One of the other issues 118 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: that you point out was that people said, well, there 119 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: was no reason to assume we would be attacked on 120 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: nine to eleven. We hadn't been attacked since nine eleven one. 121 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: And you point out that Hillary Clinton made a note 122 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: about this was a big day, and so there seems 123 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: to be a disparity there. But let's specifically speak about Libya. 124 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: Were they aware there was a likely attack? 125 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 3: I would say yes. There were many people who say 126 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: they were aware there was an impending attack. There are 127 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 3: security people on the ground who felt there was an 128 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: impending attack. There were explicit threats from al Qaeda that 129 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 3: said they were going to attack in a particular order 130 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: the Red Cross, the United Kingdom, the UK, and Benghazi 131 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: and the United States. And yes, they attacked the Red Cross, 132 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 3: and then they attacked the United Kingdom, and surely we 133 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: were next. I mean, people saw the writing on the wall. 134 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 3: The CIA had issued warnings not of a date and time, 135 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: But the CIA had issue warnings to the State Department 136 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 3: that there were dangers there. There were so many red flags, 137 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: and I outlined them in the book. I mean, one 138 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 3: after the other. One wonders what it would have taken 139 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: if this did not get their attention at headquarters of 140 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: the State Department, What on earth it would have taken? 141 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: But aren't there all weren't Aren't there almost always security 142 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: attacks in a region like Libya. I mean, don't you 143 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: at some point become sort of fatigued and comfortable. 144 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: Maybe that's true, But according to the security people who 145 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 3: operated there, this was unusual. This wasn't a normal operating 146 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: environment that you would expect in a place. It was 147 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 3: getting worse, not better, And yet it was being treated 148 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: by headquarters as if the security situation were getting better, 149 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: not worse, as if they just didn't want to believe 150 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: it was deteriorating quickly. The only theory I've heard from 151 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 3: officials who were stationed there is that the State Department 152 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 3: wanted to normalize things in Libya and make it appear 153 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 3: as though things were good and everything was getting better, 154 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: and they really didn't want to face the reality that 155 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: things were getting much worse. 156 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: So if we just pretend then and help for the best. 157 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: I mean, surely nobody wanted anybody to die. I think 158 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: they just hoped for the best. 159 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: Well, and it was two months before in election, so 160 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: we do want to appear to be in control. Coming up, 161 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: Cheryl Atkinson is our guest in studio. The book is 162 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: called Stonewalled. We're going to go through exactly what she 163 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: believes happened September eleventh, twenty twelve in Benghazi. 164 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 4: Stay tuned, you've got the Michael Berry Show. 165 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: You were concerned at CBS since we're on the subject 166 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: of Benghazi when the guy who had been the station 167 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: chief or whatever, he had a role in Benghazi, and 168 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 2: then CBS hires him and brings him in, and you're thinking, 169 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: wait a second, is he here to spend. 170 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: Maybe it's just the way I think, and this is 171 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 3: based on experience, but when people from administrations and other 172 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 3: places that want to influence the press are placed inside 173 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: the press, I do wonder how they end up there sometimes, 174 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: and I think we have to be especially careful as 175 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 3: members of the press. You're talking about Mike Morrell, who's 176 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: the former deputy director of the CIA, who was implicated 177 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 3: in Benghazi talking point changes who gave a contradictory testimony 178 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: and information about it. So he was very much at 179 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 3: the center of the controversy, and yet was hired by 180 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 3: CBS some months ago as a consultant before I left CBS, 181 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 3: and at the same time had also just been hired 182 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: as a paid employee at a PR strategy firm dominated 183 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 3: by Hillary Clinton loyalists, which was not disclosed that paid. 184 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: What I see as a potential conflict of interest was 185 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: not disclosed when we used him on the air, and 186 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 3: I think in my view, we had to disclose. We 187 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: had our responsibility disclose it to disparage him, to protect CBS, 188 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 3: so that the viewers know we've disclosed information they can 189 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: use to judge how they want to view the commentary 190 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 3: that he gives. But I was not my view was 191 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 3: not shared that we owed the viewers that disclosure. 192 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: Let's talk about what happened in Benghazi layout for people 193 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: that may not understand the overview of what happened that day, 194 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: September eleventh, twenty twelve. 195 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: It's been a while since I looked at the timeline, 196 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 3: but Ambassador Stevens met late in the day with the 197 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: Turkish ambassador. And as the ambassador said goodbye and left 198 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: and Stevens went back into the compound, they fell under 199 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: attack by mobs that swarmed a mob that swarmed the mission. 200 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 3: It was not an official embassy, but a mission down there, 201 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: and for some reason, his guards, which my understanding is 202 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: they were all rookies. This was their first assignment on 203 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: diplomatic security. Because the experienced guys had left and the 204 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 3: special teams had left. They didn't even have their weapons 205 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: with them. The people who were there previous to them 206 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: so that they never they slept with their weapons because 207 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 3: they understood what a precarious situation it was. So it's 208 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: unclear why these guys didn't even have their guns with them, 209 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 3: but they were separated from the guns they needed. They 210 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: had to make their way to another building. The mob 211 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: started a fire. 212 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: Let's tell the word mob, because there are varying accounts 213 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: as to how sophisticated this group was. One account was 214 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: that when they showed up, they managed to flip some 215 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 2: of the people that were supposed to be in Stevens's 216 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: defense Locally that the US government or the CIA or 217 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: Stevens's group had contracted with local folks to protect and 218 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 2: that in fact they were al Qaeda elements. 219 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 3: Well, what the State Department does is it relies a 220 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 3: lot of times on local security. Especially as it was 221 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 3: pulling out our security in Libya. They were saying, rely 222 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 3: on the locals, Rely on the locals. Well, that can 223 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: be a dangerous thing according to those who worked there, 224 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: because the loyalties of the locals are sometimes not always known. 225 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: And there was this brigade that was supposed to locals 226 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: that were supposed to help protect our guys there that 227 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: pretty much up and ran when this happened and didn't 228 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 3: provide the protection it was hoped that they would provide, 229 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 3: and then our guys there were just a couple didn't 230 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: have their weapons. Ambassador Stevens was overcome by smoke. Yes, 231 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: there is an open question, and it's been posed to 232 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: me by people who were there. The idea that people 233 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: we had been working with Libyans that the United States 234 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: had been working with in a friendly fashion, were some 235 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: of them among those who ended up plotting against us. 236 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: And I wonder, although I don't know, is that why 237 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 3: the government never released the surveillance video of the mob attacking. 238 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: Initially we were promised that we would be able to 239 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 3: see pictures of this, that this was public information, we'd 240 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 3: be able to see about Thanksgiving the year that it happened. 241 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 3: And then the video was never released, and they want 242 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: us to see the faces and the details of those 243 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 3: people that stormed the compound. Part of me wondered, is 244 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 3: it because some people involved would recognize those as people 245 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 3: the United States perhaps had worked with previously. 246 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,479 Speaker 1: That's your worst suspicion. 247 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, that's about my worst suspicion. And I do 248 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: know we were doing business as a country. I was 249 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: told by sources with Libyans who had in the past 250 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: opposed US, people who had worked been affiliated with al 251 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 3: Qaeda affiliates in the past, but were now considered friendly 252 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 3: to our current cause. So it's very complicated over there. 253 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: There are also numerous sources that have said through reports 254 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: that there was Syrian gun running, that there was gun 255 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: running to I guess Syrian rebels being coordinated across Northern Africa, 256 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: and that this was the pipeline. 257 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 3: I think that that's probably true. I have information that says, 258 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 3: you know, guns were being run through there to Syria. 259 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: The thing that I don't personally have is confirmation of 260 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: what the United States specific role, if any was, were 261 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 3: we directly involved in facilitating that or did we know 262 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 3: of it? Or were we working people with people who 263 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: were doing it. I don't have any evidence that answers 264 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 3: that question. 265 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: So Ambassador Stevens died of. 266 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 5: Smoke inhalation, right, that's what we think. 267 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: There are reports that his body was then dragged into 268 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: town and that things were done to it. 269 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: What do you know of that. 270 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: My best source on that. 271 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: Says an autopsy was performed and that that did not happen. 272 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 4: But I don't know that. 273 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: That's that's just a source, it's not a firsthand source. 274 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: Why do you think more Americans didn't die? I mean, 275 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: you have this mob and you're basically unarmed, and they've 276 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: got you held captive, nowhere to go. 277 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 4: Well, I hadn't really thought about that. 278 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 3: I mean, they did fire mortars, and the mortars were 279 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: very damaging. But did they run out of mortars or 280 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 3: did they just stop firing. I don't know the answer 281 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 3: to the question. I hadn't really thought about that. But 282 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: by that time, hopefully I'd like to think that the 283 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 3: Libyan government had been called in to try to interfere 284 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 3: and help provide some support when we were stuck like. 285 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: That under a worst case scenario. We have one minute 286 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: in this segment. Cheryl Atkinson is our guest. The book 287 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: is stonewalled. Why don't we know where President Obama was? 288 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 2: When this is a guy that we always see the 289 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: pictures of him in the war room. Why don't we know? 290 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: This is the biggest question I think I have that 291 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 3: we're entitled to know what our commander in chief did 292 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 3: the night that Americans were under attack on foreign soil, 293 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 3: and we don't even have a clue as to the 294 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: first you know, the basic steps he took specifically through 295 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: the night, even a general timeline like they gave us 296 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 3: for the bin Laden rated. We have nothing, And of 297 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 3: course that's always a signal that there's why is there 298 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 3: a reason that they're keeping that secret? We don't know, 299 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 3: but there must be a reason. 300 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: Pure conspiracy. You're not giving it any weight. What is 301 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: the wildest conspiracy you've heard as. 302 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: To where he was? 303 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: I really haven't heard a conspiracy. I think he was 304 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: in the White House. I think that he probably there's 305 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 3: a chance he was more involved in making decisions that 306 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 3: turned out to be the wrong decisions, and they wouldn't 307 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: want us to know something like that. The other alternative 308 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: is he was so uninvolved completely at all, that that 309 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 3: too could be controversial. 310 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: More with Cheryl Atkinson, the book is stonewalled coming up. 311 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Show continues, continues. 312 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: The election of president could arguably have been said to 313 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: come down to one pivotal debate. I'll remind you, folks 314 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: that Romney absolutely wiped the floor with Barack Obama. And 315 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: then there was that pivotal debate. Now you remember it 316 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: was in Denver that Al Gore later said, well, Obama 317 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: wasn't ready because he'd gone to Nevada and he was 318 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: oxygen deprived. And then there was the Denver debate where 319 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 2: he was lackluster, and then came the debate, and Ryl 320 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: Atkinson writes about it in her book Sixty Minutes. Correspondent 321 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: Steve Crost Steve Croft is at the White House for 322 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: a previously scheduled interview and asked the President about his 323 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: wording on Benghazi. 324 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: Steve Cross says. 325 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 5: Crofts, this is September twelfth, the day after, mister President, 326 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 5: this morning, you went out of your way to avoid 327 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 5: the use of the word terrorism in connection with the 328 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 5: Liby attack. 329 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: President Obama says, right, do you believe. 330 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 3: Okay, stop there, because that's so important. Croft is saying 331 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 3: to the President. His interpretation is after listening in the 332 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 3: Rose Garden the next day, that you, mister Obama, did 333 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 3: not call Benghazi an act of terrorism caused by terrorists. 334 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 3: And the President says. 335 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: Right, can I go yes? 336 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 2: I feel like I'm being bamboozled. Steve Croft follows with, 337 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: do you believe that this was a terrorist attack? You 338 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 2: didn't say terrorism, correct? Do you believe that this was 339 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: a terrorist attack? Do have to stop again? Go ahead, 340 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: President Obama. Well, it's too early to know exactly how 341 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: this came about, what group was involved. 342 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: But stop this. 343 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 4: We now know from documents release. 344 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: Why are you laughing? Remote Ramote is enjoying us. 345 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: We now know and we didn't know then, and I 346 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: you know, I'm not sure I knew exactly when I 347 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: wrote that part in the book, but we know now 348 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 3: that the government had already our government told Libya in 349 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 3: an email that Ansar al Sharia was responsible and was 350 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 3: a terrorist at attack. So even as the President is 351 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 3: saying this to Steve Croft the next day, internally they 352 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 3: had already determined. It seems to me definitively that it 353 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 3: was and who was responsible. 354 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 4: Despite what he's saying in the. 355 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: Interview, lying he knows it's terrorism. Worst case scenario, He 356 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: and everyone else had been aware. They didn't respond, well, 357 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 2: I guess we could take that part of it. They're 358 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: aware that terrorism was going to occur. It happened on 359 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: nine to eleven, so it's obvious that's what it was. 360 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 2: They saw what was happening. Why not call it terrorism? 361 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 4: They have to answer that question. 362 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: I've never understood. Of course, it was terribly. 363 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 4: I think the best. 364 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 3: Answer to that just an educated answer based on the evidence. 365 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 3: And it would still be a mistake if they would 366 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 3: do it for this reason. But was as you know, 367 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 3: he had campaigned on the idea that al Qaeda was 368 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 3: on the run and there had been no terrorist attacks, 369 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 3: and the idea that's so close to the election, they 370 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 3: knew immediately. Gosh, this attack occurred in a place where 371 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: the CIA had issued a warning, and people are going 372 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 3: to say we should have known, and people are going 373 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 3: to say it's terrorism. What happened to your campaign? You 374 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 3: know Platue that said terrorists are on the run. I 375 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 3: think there was a political decision likely that said that 376 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: would not be good at this stage. 377 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: You go on to write that brief part of the 378 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 2: interview isn't big news at the time and doesn't even 379 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 2: make the air on CBS News, so it doesn't even 380 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: get aired. But weeks later, there's a reason to take 381 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: another look at it. When President Obama is debating the 382 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: Republican candidate for President Mitt Romney. In that debate on 383 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: October sixteenth, mister Obama claims that in the Rose Garden 384 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 2: on September twelfth, the very day that we're talking about, 385 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: he definitively called Benghazi an act of terror. Remember that's 386 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 2: not what he said in the interview with Croft. 387 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: I think that's huge, especially when Candy Crowley weighs in 388 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: on his behalf. 389 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: The CNN reporter moderating the debate, jumped in and declared 390 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 3: that Obama was right and Romney was wrong on this point. Now, 391 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 3: the catches I didn't know, and America didn't know, and 392 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 3: I think most people at CBS didn't know that we 393 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 3: had that interview with President Obama that would have proven 394 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 3: Romney was correct, because we sat on it, and even 395 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: after the debate, the managers and other officials who knew 396 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 3: about this interview. Who should have rolled it out because 397 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 3: that would have served our viewers, that would have served 398 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 3: the public, That would have answered a big question. Even then, 399 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 3: they didn't air it. They didn't let us know that 400 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: we even. 401 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 4: Had that clip. 402 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: How did you find out you had the clip? 403 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: The only way I found out that clip existed was 404 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: the Friday before the election. Weeks later, it sort of 405 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 3: leaked out. Another correspondent called me. There were several of 406 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 3: us who learned of this because it was talk inside CBS. 407 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 3: There were people who knew of the interview who couldn't 408 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 3: understand why we hadn't aired it. And finally it leaked 409 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: outside of sixty Minutes and the people that had previously 410 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 3: been alerted to it at evening news and the clip 411 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 3: was read to me by the transcript by another correspondent, 412 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 3: and we both were just like, Wow, this is huge. 413 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 3: Why did and we air this? Why didn't we know 414 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 3: about it? So? 415 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: At Clear Channel now iHeart our audio is loaded into 416 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 2: one system. Any of the shows have access to that audio. 417 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 2: Sixty Minutes is a different show than you were typically 418 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: involved with. Is that shared across a platform across the company? 419 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 3: Here's what happened when sixty minutes conducted the interview, and 420 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 3: it was not news, particularly that day, because there wasn't 421 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 3: the question over how that attack would be termed. But 422 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: they provided that entire transcript, according to the evidence I saw, 423 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: they provided that transcript to all the folks of the 424 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: Evening News, Fishbowl and certain managers, so there was a 425 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 3: wide distribution list that knew what had been said. And 426 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 3: after the debate, this is the part that I think 427 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 3: really bothered me. Several of us who continue to report 428 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: on Benghazi were fed a piece of that interview, but 429 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: not the operative part that we talked about, another piece 430 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 3: of the interview, which is the first time I even 431 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: knew we had an interview, and we were told to 432 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: air that in a context that was dictated to us 433 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 3: by New York that gave the impression that Romney was 434 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 3: wrong and Obama was right. In other words, it was 435 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 3: used out of context to steer the public opinion in 436 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: a way, you know, in a direction that did not 437 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: accurately reflect the interview. Once we saw the whole thing 438 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: the Friday before the election. 439 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 440 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: More of our conversation with Cheryl Atkinson in studio. The 441 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: book is called STONEWALLD and you can probably get it 442 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 2: at your nearest bookstore. I bought almost all the ones 443 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: at West Gray and Shepherd up, but I think there 444 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: was one left. And what was Cheryl Atkinson of Stonewaald 445 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: coming up next? The Michael Berry Show continues, it appears 446 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 2: I don't want to put words in your mouth that 447 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 2: you're saying CBS knew that the White House was covering up. 448 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 2: I think whether he called it terror or not, that 449 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 2: first day is not the most important thing of the 450 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 2: presidential election. I think they are far more important things, like. 451 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: Where he was. 452 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: But it is clear that for some reason, they are 453 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: lying about it. It is clear that CBS knows it 454 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: because they have the tape and refuse to even give 455 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 2: it to you. 456 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: It seems to be a. 457 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 2: Coordinated effort between the CBS senior staff and the White 458 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: House to prevent the public from knowing this. And I 459 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: have to bring in the Brothers roads at this point. 460 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: I mean, you've got one guy that's a senior CBS 461 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: guy and one guy that's close to Obama. They're brothers. 462 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: It's too much to be a coincidence. 463 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: It's hard to know what conversations took place at high 464 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 3: levels because I'm not privy to them. You're talking about 465 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 3: CBS News President David Rhodes, brother of Ben Rhoades, who's 466 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 3: top advisor at the White House. 467 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: Who and who wrote the talking points. 468 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 3: It was implicated in talking Points matters and also was 469 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: largely with being part of the architecture for the Arab Spring, 470 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 3: which actually turned into terrorism spring. So there is that connection. 471 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a coordinated effort between the 472 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 3: White House and the people who perhaps ideologically support the 473 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: president let that interfere with their journalism. The only thing 474 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: that makes me wonder is I kept mulling over in 475 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: my head once I found out about the interview and 476 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 3: what had been said. How did the White House know 477 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 3: we weren't going to use that tape? How did they 478 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 3: know that the President at that debate could speak with 479 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 3: confidence and say something that contradicted what he knows he 480 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 3: told Steve Croft and the Rose Garden the next day, 481 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 3: And how could he do that and know that we 482 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 3: weren't going to pull out the tape which was. 483 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 2: And why did Candy Crowley, who's not even with CBS, 484 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: with CNN step in and contradict Romney And people don't 485 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 2: remember it's the page seven retraction four hours later admitted 486 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: that she was wrong, but the nation was in bed 487 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 2: by then, and that was a pivotal point. Romney had 488 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: accused him of falling short on the term terrorism. Obama confidently, 489 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: brazenly says check the tape, and Candy Crowley, the independent referee, 490 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 2: says foul on you, and we go to bed thinking 491 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: Romney got schooled. 492 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: And Romney lost his confidence. That was a key point, 493 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 3: because he came into that very confident. He lost its confidence. 494 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: I don't think he ever raised the Benghazi issue again 495 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: after that in the campaign. 496 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 4: He'd been smacked down. I'm with you. 497 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 3: I don't understand why the words terrorism and whether they 498 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 3: used it were necessarily so important, except they, apparently the 499 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 3: administration thought it was they made advanced. 500 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: With the right because they're defending against what they know, 501 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 2: not what we know. 502 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: They're now saying, you know, who cares what's in the terminology? 503 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 3: And my answer to that is you cared. You're the 504 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 3: ones using the alternate terminology. 505 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 2: The news media was part of offering the narrative that 506 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 2: it was some video that some guy in Egypt had 507 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 2: created that had upset the people of Libya and northern 508 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 2: Africa for that matter, and that was the talking Points 509 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 2: memo and everything that was involved with that, and Hillary 510 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: went out and defended that. 511 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: What is your takeaway from that whole experience, Well a 512 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: couple things. 513 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 3: I just thought this was kind of funny because I 514 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 3: said to my producer, you know, once we knew the 515 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 3: video was not the trigger and that was a pre 516 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 3: planned attack, I said, there is somebody now questioning, somebody 517 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 3: connected to the administration, questioning anybody they think was involved 518 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: in the attack, trying to make one of them say 519 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 3: they saw the video, because if they can just say 520 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 3: there was a little piece of the video in the motivation, 521 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 3: they would feel like that helped make their story seem truer. 522 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 3: And indeed they've said that in the last couple of months, well, 523 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 3: some of the mobsters had seen the video and it 524 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 3: was exactly as predicted. The question really is how and 525 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 3: who came up with that idea and how is it disseminated. 526 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: That's still the thing. We don't know that it would 527 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 3: be blamed publicly on the video rather than on what 528 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 3: they internally were saying to one another and what the 529 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 3: internal books these. 530 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 2: Body in a newsroom. I mean, these people might be liberals. 531 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 2: They might be committed to his cause and devoted to it, 532 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 2: but they're not stupid. They had to know it wasn't 533 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: the video. 534 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 4: I don't know. 535 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 3: It was hard to say initially what we see so 536 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 3: clearly now because we have documents and witnesses. So at 537 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 3: first I think some people did think it was the video, 538 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 3: and they were making much ado about it at the time. 539 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 3: If you recall another question that hasn't been answered that 540 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 3: I posed to the White House and a Missus Clinton, 541 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: when initially they were telling victims' families we're going to 542 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 3: find whoever made that awful video, instead of saying we're 543 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 3: going to find the terrorists that attacked your loved ones, 544 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 3: which would make more sense. I've asked, well, what was 545 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 3: the infraction? What were you going to find that guy about? 546 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 3: What you going to charge him with? When all he 547 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: did was make a legal video that you don't like. 548 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 3: What was your idea in your head of what you 549 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 3: were going to charge this guy with? And they won't 550 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 3: answer that question because there was nothing he had done 551 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: that was charge a chargeable offense on any level. 552 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: In Bookstone Good Sorry. 553 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 3: Ironically, this guy who I've spoken to, nicol and Nicoola, 554 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: who made the video, describes himself as a very avid 555 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 3: Christian who supported Ambassador Stevens and was actually fighting against 556 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 3: He didn't think his video, he said, was anti Muslim. 557 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,239 Speaker 3: It was anti Muslim extremist, against the bad kind of 558 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 3: things that happen that give Muslims a bad name, which 559 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 3: would put him very much on the same page as 560 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 3: supposedly the administration, and yet he was hung out to dry. 561 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: In the book Stonewalled, we have a minute and a 562 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 2: half left, you talk about those fateful words that you 563 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: don't think Hillary will ever be able to forget. What 564 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: difference does it make? Talk for a minute or so 565 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: if you would, about Hillary's role in all of this, 566 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: including the distraction campaign afterwards, she's. 567 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 3: Very adept at trying to make sure I think, once 568 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 3: she saw how damaging this would be, that this would 569 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 3: not float and follow her she hoped into a presidential campaign. 570 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 3: So that's what a lot of that was about on 571 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 3: her part, I think, and in her book that she 572 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 3: put out in the last couple of months, there's a 573 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 3: lot of attempts to, I think, rewrite history and rewrite 574 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 3: a story, make it seem as though they never didn't 575 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 3: say it. Wasn't terrorism. We always thought it was terrorism, 576 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: which is certainly not the case. And a lot of 577 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 3: other attempts in the book to kind of reinvent and 578 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 3: rewrite the things which are different now than what they 579 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 3: said initially. 580 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 2: I would say, and I think that's really an attempt 581 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: to say, this is old news. So we don't get 582 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: an answer. Remember, she falls and there's the concussion, and 583 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 2: now it's old news. Why are we still talking about it? 584 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 2: Can't we just move forward? As a result of all this, 585 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: Cheryl Atkinson was subjected to so confirmed cases of invasions 586 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: of her personal computer. Her home phone was monitor Horrible 587 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 2: things happen. We will talk about that experience in her 588 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 2: going very public with it and whether her station, her network, 589 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: CBS stood behind her. Spoiler alert they did. All that 590 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: and more coming up next with Cheryl Atkinson. 591 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: If you liked the. 592 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: Michael Berry Show and podcast, please tell one friend, and 593 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 2: if you're so inclined, write a nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, 594 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: and interest in being a corporate sponsor and partner can 595 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: be communicated directly to the show at our email address 596 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 2: Michael at Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking 597 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: on our website Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry 598 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: Show and Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King 599 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 2: of Ding. Executive producer is Chad Nakanishi. Jim Mudd is 600 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 2: the creative director. Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided 601 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: by Chance McLean. Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily 602 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: Bull is our assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated 603 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: and often incorporated into our production. Where possible, we give credit, 604 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: where not, we take all the credit for ourselves. God 605 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: bless the memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be 606 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: a simple man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God 607 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: bless America. Finally, if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, 608 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: call Camp Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven 609 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 2: PTSD and a combat veteran will answer the phone to 610 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: provide free counseling.