1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the 4 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: you stand with on X everybody. I don't want to 7 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: discourage you from listening to this episode. It's about Pebble 8 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: Mind in Alaska, and everything you're gonna hear is pertinent 9 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: and relevant. But here's here's the weird thing. While we 10 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: were recording this episode with Tim Bristol about Pebble Mind 11 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: in Bristol Bay, Alaska, a big news story broke. In 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: this eisode you're gonna hear mention of a guy named 13 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: Tim Collier who works on behalf of Pebble Mind. While 14 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: we were recording the show, it came out that Tim Collier, 15 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: who served as CEO role on the Pebble Mind project, 16 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: was secretly recorded saying some things that are speculated about 17 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: in this coming episode. This will make more sense after 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: you listen. For instance, he acknowledges to some people who 19 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: are posing as potential investors to the Mind we're going 20 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: to be discussing today. He acknowledges not that this would 21 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: be a twenty year project, but this that phase one 22 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: of this project would be a one year project. And 23 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: he discusses certain politicians by name who he says, sure 24 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: they'll pay lip service, two opponents of the mind, and 25 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: they'll act like they care about having this mind on right. 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I'm friends with him, 27 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: I know him, and they'll just rubber stamp the thing. 28 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: That's an essence I'm I'm paraphrasing them, that's an essence 29 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: of what this guy says on these secretly recorded tapes. 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: And Tim Collier, who were going to discuss quite a 31 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 1: bit in this show, had to promptly resign. So understand 32 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: that this episode happened in the minutes before this major 33 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: twist in the story occurred. So dig in and you 34 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: will walk away borderline expert on pebble Mind, and hopefully, 35 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: like me, you'll come to the decision that this is 36 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: the wrong mind in the wrong place and we need 37 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: to fix this problem once and for all. All Right, 38 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: we're joined by uh super special guests out of Homer Laste, 39 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: Tim Bristol, how predictable? Is it that I bring up that? 40 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: You know? You know what I'm gonna bring up? Look 41 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: about your name? How that work out? Either chance or faith? 42 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: You know, take your pick. So what I'm getting at here? 43 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: His name is Tim Bristol. Yeah, you've dedicated how many 44 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: years to fighting pebble mine on Bristol Bay? Did you 45 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: change your name to Bristol? Did not know it's born 46 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: with that name? At what point where you like, wow, huh, 47 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: you know my name is the name of that place. 48 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: I think the best thing about it was when I 49 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: started going out to these communities, these native villages. You 50 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: know a lot of us white people all the same, 51 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, kind of got out there in baseball hats 52 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: and right and garret and you know I have some 53 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: kind of you know, scruffy scruffy beard, and they remembered 54 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: me because they're like Tim Bristol, we remember your last name. 55 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: It's so good. It's great. So I worked out, you know, 56 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: it worked out really well. It was that vantageous. Yes, 57 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: can you uh man like, explain to people as though 58 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: they're five years old, Yeah, as twenty years old. Explain 59 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: to people like they're twenty years old. What when someone 60 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: says pebble mind. Okay, what is pebble mind? Considering that 61 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: it's at this point it's nothing, But what are we 62 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: talking about when we talk about Pebble mine. Pebble Mine 63 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: is a proposal to build either the second largest or 64 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: the largest open pit golden copper mine in the world 65 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: at the headwaters of the most productive wild salmon fishery 66 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: left on the planet. And it's a choice for Alaska. 67 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: You know, we're we're at a crossroads. We got to 68 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: decide whether we're going to allow everything everywhere where? Are 69 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: we just going to say some places are just too 70 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: important for renewable resources, for thousands of American jobs, for 71 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: America's you know, natural heritage, and we're not going to 72 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: allow this to go forward. The superlative largest or second largest. 73 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: What does that hinge on? Well, it's all about the 74 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: habitat when you're talking about Sakai salmon production, right, So 75 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the mind size like it would be 76 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: the largest, Like I mean, there's there's varying proposals or 77 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: like it's unclear how to measure them. Well that there's 78 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: there's This is where it gets really confusing for the 79 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: public and incredibly irritating for us that are trying to 80 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: you know, punch through and tell the truth on this thing. 81 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: It is the largest known gold resource and the second 82 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: largest known copper resource in North America. And when the 83 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: head of the company Pebble Limited Partnership, this guy named 84 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: Ron Theson, goes and talks to investors at you know 85 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: World Gold Form and things like that, he talks in 86 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: those terms, those superlatives, that this is a you know, 87 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: world class resource that we may be able to mind 88 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: it for a hundred years or more. But then when 89 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: Pebble comes back to the public, when Pebble gives a 90 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: proposal to the Army Corps of Engineers, they say, oh, 91 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna be there for twenty years and then we're 92 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: gonna go away. And you know, there's really no way 93 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: to sugarcoat it. It's a flat outline, and the government 94 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: right now is swallowing it, hook line and sinker. It 95 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: makes it incredibly frustrating because I just you know, if 96 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: you talk to people that don't have a that don't 97 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: have skin in the game, that are experts in the 98 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: mining world, they'll tell you that they're not going to 99 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: make any money in the first twenty years, and there's 100 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: no way they're going to stop after twenty years. The 101 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: shareholders wouldn't let them. Everybody was part of the company 102 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: would get sued, and they would just put a whole 103 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: new set of leadership in there and then apply for 104 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: a little additional permit and just keep going. Would it 105 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: somehow make it better if they did stop after twenty years? Yeah? 106 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,119 Speaker 1: Would that? Would that ease your mind? Not really now? 107 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: And the other damage will be done as far as 108 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: like the all the infrastructure and the what it takes 109 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: to open the mind, right, Yeah, yeah, I I would. 110 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: I would point I would try to find you know 111 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: a place in the world where that's happened. Right, we 112 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: spend billions on infrastructure, roads, a port, uh, getting a 113 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: natural gas pipeline out there, and and then just quitting 114 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: after twenty years, right when you you may have not 115 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: turned to profit by that point, So I just you 116 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: know that's not going to happen. And then you have 117 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other mineral claims staked around the 118 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: Pebble Prospect. The thing that people don't realize is you're 119 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: looking at a thousand square miles and mining claims at 120 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: the headwaters of Bristol Bay, and that would make it 121 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: one of the largest mining districts, if not the largest 122 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: mining district in the world. And you start thinking about 123 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: the implications for wild salmon production, and you look at 124 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: wild salmon runs all the all throughout the Pacific rim 125 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: and you pretty much know all the story is gonna end. 126 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: You know, have you ever heard this? That all of 127 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: the gold that's ever that's in existence above ground, So 128 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: all of the gold that's ever been hauled out of 129 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: the earth since the Egyptians, there's only enough to fill 130 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: three Olympic sized swimming pools all of that gold, Forbes estimate. 131 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: Forbes estimates that that it's would take that all the 132 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: gold since two thousand BC, including the Egyptians, that all 133 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: of that gold would fill three point to seven Olympic 134 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: swimming pools. That's what's ever been dragged out of the earth. 135 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: Isn't that one die hard movie they had? Do you 136 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: think pools? Swimming pools? Note joke though either Yeah, it's 137 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: a lot of volume. The Okay, put your mining engineer 138 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: head on for a minute about have one of those. 139 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: But I'll try, Okay, I mean, shooting engineers are smart people. 140 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: We should have brought one like explained because it's the process, right, 141 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: part of what pisses people off about Pebble minds Like 142 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: it's not like you're it's not like a bunch of 143 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: old dudes dressed up like hatch Jack out there with 144 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: gold pans pulland nuggets. Yeah, like explain leech you know, 145 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: cyanide leech mining. Yeah, so you know with Pebble, to 146 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: get back to the speaking to the twenty year old, 147 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: it's size type location, right, it's the it's the size 148 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: of the mind. We we've already talked about that. It 149 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: would be one of the biggest excavations in the history 150 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: of mankind really when you include the pit and the infrastructure. 151 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: So Pebble Pebble, if if to go to full build out, 152 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: would use more energy on a daily basis in the 153 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: city of Anchorage. And you've been through there a bunch 154 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: of times. It's not a small town. It's two sixty 155 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: people that would suck up that amount of electricity, Yeah, 156 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: and use fuel and water, use more than twice as 157 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: much water that is used by a city a two 158 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: d sixty people on a daily basis. And you know, 159 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever flown over the mindset area. 160 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: There's nothing there. I mean, it's just it's just wilderness. Yeah, 161 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: it's it's an amazing spot. And it drains two ways 162 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: towards two river systems, up towards the New Segak Malchatna 163 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 1: and then down down towards Lake Ilyamna and the the 164 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: Quejack River. And those are the two major drivers of 165 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: the of the salmon fishery that I think we'll probably 166 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: talk about a little bit. But so from an engineering standpoint, 167 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: you're talking something, you know, the biggest development project in 168 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: Alaska since they discovered oil in the North Slope and 169 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: built the Trans Alaska pipeline, and you know dead Horse 170 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: and Prude Obey and all that kind of stuff. And 171 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: then uh so, yes, size, and then you have the 172 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: type of mind So there's a lot of gold and 173 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: copper in the ground, but it's not a very rich 174 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: or body. Um. It sits in a in a big 175 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: sulfide deposit. And you're basically so a friend, a friend 176 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: of virus who has worked for a long time with us, 177 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: who has some background in mining, and he used to 178 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: be the state Senate president. Guy named Rick Alford, lifelong Republican, 179 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: UM Big Game Guide retired Big Game Guide. He uh, 180 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: he calls it a sulfur mine with a golden copper component. 181 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: You have to get through a whole bunch of waste 182 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: rock to get to the gold and the copper. And 183 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: then the big problem, the engineering problem, the one that's 184 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: chased away Anglo American and Rio Tinto and Mitsubishi and 185 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: Quantum Mineral, some of the heavy hitters has been what 186 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: the hell are they going to do with all that waste? 187 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: Because you have those are other mining companies, and those 188 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: are like the contractors. There's like the developer and then 189 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: the contractor. There's the analogy. Now there's a developer, the 190 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: sort of the hype machine, which is Pebble Limited Partnership, 191 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: the Snake Oil salesman, if I may, and then there's 192 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: the the majors who actually design and operate minds. And 193 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: we should get to the fact that that Pebble part 194 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: like the sort of brain, the sort of brains behind this. 195 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to get to this because I don't understand 196 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: as well. They're having a hard time sort of finding 197 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: the contractor right like they're like, Hey, here's this crazy 198 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: house we're gonna build, and contractors keep coming in and 199 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: being like, yeah, that's not for us. So I like 200 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: that analogy. Yeah, so you get Anglo American, Rio, Tinto, Mitsubishi, 201 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: Quantum all walked away, Anglo walked away from a five 202 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: seventy million dollar investment. And I think it's you know, 203 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: it really comes down to and what we've heard through 204 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: the grapevine and lots of experts that have just kind 205 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: of been around the proposal throughout the years and said, 206 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: we just don't know how you're going to manage that 207 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: kind of waste over time. It would be like like 208 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: a Berkeley pit, beyond comprehension. I think that's another piece 209 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: from the twenty year old standpoint that needs to explained. 210 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: When you're talking about that waste, about that sulfur, what 211 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: what are we talking about specifically in terms of contained 212 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: and the potential for if it gets out? Are we 213 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: being condescending to two year olds? But I mean actually 214 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: actually we are because my coworkers she's twenty two, and 215 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: she's way smarter than me, so way smarter as though 216 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: talking to a forty six year old. Um, yeah, I 217 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: want to get it, Like why okay, let me just 218 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: show us out real quick. We have the thing nearby 219 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: to where we're sitting right now. I don't have to 220 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: drive from here called Berkeley Pit, And at a time 221 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: was the like golden copper mine. It's in Butte, Montana. 222 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: You always I don't know what this means. You always 223 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: here thrown out that like once upon time Beau had 224 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: per capita more millionaires than anywhere in the country. But 225 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: I was thinking too, if you had a community of 226 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: a hundred people and there happened to be a millionaire there, 227 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: you would have more millionaires per capita. So I don't 228 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: really that people like to throw that out there. Um, 229 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: there's a great history of Butte in the Berkeley Pit. 230 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: It's just an article. There's all these books, but there's 231 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: an article called Pennies from Hell, and it gets into 232 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: like what exactly happened there, and they tunnel mind it right, 233 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: just like pulling out chunks. But over time technology is improved, 234 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: the quality of the ore decrease in different areas, and 235 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: they eventually got to this thing where they pull the 236 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: ship out of the ground and the ore contains what 237 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: you're after, copper and gold, silver, and you leach it 238 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: out by you pour acid on it, cyanide, you pull 239 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: it up, crush it up, dump a bunch of cyanide 240 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: on it, and then it it dissolves, correct, and there's 241 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: some way that you then harvest it, but then you 242 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: wind up with all of this contaminated liquid that then 243 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: has the gold live in a lake. And Berkeley Pit 244 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: is a problem that will never go away. It's an 245 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: enorm Once a hundred snow geese once landed there and 246 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: died on the water in that pit, and it'll be 247 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: a problem into you know, I don't want to over 248 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: conflate work pit with this, but I do want to 249 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: talk like, like what what they mean when they say 250 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: because I think people think of mining and think you're 251 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: gonna dig a hole and also all these goals starts 252 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: flying out of the hole and then you load it 253 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: on airplanes and fly it somewhere. Yeah, they're talking ten 254 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: billion tons of waste associated with full build out of 255 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: pebble um. A percentage of that would be highly reactive 256 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: sulfide bearing rock. And when that sulfide bearing rock is 257 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: exposed to air and water, it creates the loot sulfuric acid, 258 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: which has a half life of never. It just has 259 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: to sit and a pit and be treated in perpetuity. 260 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: That's the part I didn't get. So that so it's 261 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: like it's something that when you pull it up and 262 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: allow it to oxidize or expose the water, then it 263 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: creates the problem. And you put that ship into a 264 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: lake that's right, and build a damn to keep it 265 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: from going anywhere on Earth and dam in an area 266 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: that's one of the more seismically active places in the world. 267 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's on the Pacific rim of Fire. They 268 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: had an earthquake out there last year that really shook 269 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: our house. Um, it was high sevens. So you know 270 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: when they talk about, oh we got damns designing, nothing 271 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: can ever go wrong. But you're seeing more and more 272 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: of that of these these modern minds. You know that 273 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: they have such huge amounts of waste that they have 274 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: to contain that it becomes a real problem. And Pebble makes, 275 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, Berkeley Pitt look like you know, just a 276 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: just a dot. It's way bigger. You know, you just 277 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: mentioned a seven uh earthquake in the sevens. I was 278 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: just reading this book about the what year did the 279 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: big earthquake hit the Anchorage? I read a book about 280 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: the John Muellen who's been on the show, just wrote 281 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: a book called This is Chance and it's about the 282 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: sixty four earthquake and Anchorage. And Richter at the time 283 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: was just developing his scale, and it's an exponential scale, 284 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: so a seven is ten times worse than the six. 285 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: He he was a nudist. Richter, he was down in California, 286 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: um listening to any he'd built the rick, he'd built 287 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: the seismic graph that he installed in his living room 288 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: and drove his wife crazy, this giant seismograph. And he 289 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: was working on his scale, and he was sitting in 290 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: his living room listening to a concert with his wife. 291 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: Won the sixty four earthquake hit in Alaska, and he 292 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: looked over at his seismograph and said that was a 293 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: big one and low and behole, the biggest earthquake to 294 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: ever strike the continent. Yeah, it could happen again. You 295 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: know that's not that long ago. No, no, no, A 296 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: lot of these people are still around swallowed streets, right, 297 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: sixty ft tsunami hit Kodiak. Yeah. Yeah. When people point 298 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: out the seismic part of the area, I think people 299 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: are like, oh, you're just being alarms. But I mean 300 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: it's like it's an actual thing, man, Right, I think 301 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 1: you know, we have a tough time grasping these time frames, right. 302 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: I mean, the the asset mind waste doesn't go away, 303 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: someone's gonna have to store it, and you know, companies 304 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: rise and fall, and someone's gonna have to pay for 305 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: all that monitoring. If you were to, you know, take 306 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: all these steps and actually build the thing and over time, 307 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: you never know who's going to get stuck with the bill, 308 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: Probably the people of Alaska, the people of the United States. 309 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: Explain a little bit about what's to be what's to 310 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: be lost, Like besides this the actual destruction or you 311 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: can take it both ways, the actual destruction of the footprint, okay, 312 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: which is not insignificant, but I think that that is 313 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: something that people probably would become comfortable with maybe Like Okay, 314 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: there's this there's this like part of the earth that 315 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: will cease to function as it now. It will like 316 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: not be wild byfe habitat anymore, it'll be the opposite. 317 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: But then there's this sort of like ticking time bomb element, 318 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: right that all this ship would just downstream, Like what's 319 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: that look like? Like, like what is the resource that 320 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: would be the resource resources that could be compromised if 321 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: the worst in the worst case scenario, and when I 322 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: want to know too, if in the best case scenario, 323 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: are there still compromises to the wildlife habitat. Yes. So 324 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: the third part size, type and then location. So the 325 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: Pebble prospect sits in the saddle between the two largest 326 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: salmon producing watersheds in Bristol Bay, which makes them two 327 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: of the biggest salmon producing watersheds in the world. Because 328 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: the Bristol Bay being the biggest salmon run, it's it's 329 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: the biggest SOCCI salmon run in the world. It's probably 330 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: gonna be closest in the world's global SOCCAI salmon supply 331 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: this year because you shippn't me really. Yeah, So the 332 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: total run this year was fifty seven million fish and 333 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: the commercial fleet harvested about forty million ski go on 334 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: hit me with that again. Fifty seven million was a 335 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: total run and the harvest was forty million, And you 336 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: know that's amazing that you can harvest that level and 337 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: still get the return. Salmon are incredible if you take 338 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: care of habitat and you're really on it management wise, 339 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: you know, fishing game can turn the run on and 340 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: off like a like a faucet. You know, they can 341 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: they can take you know, hardcore gill netters and say 342 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: you're done for the day and they all stop. Can 343 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: imagine you did that kind of trim off on a 344 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: deer population, Dude, did you take decades to recover? Yeah? 345 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: They're incredible. Um. So it's that location sitting in the 346 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: saddle between the two rivers and you know up to 347 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: the that's them coming in. Yeah, that's the fish coming in. Yeah, 348 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: that's the return and that's seventeen million then cranks out 349 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: enough returners to pull another forty million fish out in 350 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: the future for human consumption. Yeah, we're probably at peak 351 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: abundance right now. Bristol Bay probably has more salmon coming 352 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: back now than it ever has because they can go 353 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: down in the bottom of these lakes and do these samples, 354 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, these of just where the layers of decayed 355 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: matter have settled in the bottom of the settim of 356 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: these lakes over time and kind of reconstruct runs from 357 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: a hundred two hundred years ago, and they think, I 358 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: think the researchers think that we're probably having productivity that 359 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: is as strong or exceeds what you had before. Four 360 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: white people showed up so successful just because the habitats 361 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: in great shape. It's the theory overwhelmingly about super high 362 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: quality habitat that hasn't been disturbed. And then you know, 363 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: pretty pretty solid management by Alaska fishing game. So so yeah, 364 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: so that's that's so even if even if the mind 365 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: never had something go wrong, Um, you're still gonna have 366 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: a destruction of wetlands. You're gonna have the elimination of 367 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: you know, several dozen miles of salmon stream. And then 368 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: Pebble will point out, well, that's the only like one 369 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: small percentage of the overall you know, the area of 370 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: productive salmon habitat in the region. What's the problem. Then 371 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: you have to start looking at what happens if something 372 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: does go wrong, if there's a catastrophic tailing dam failure. 373 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: Let's visit that. Let's visit Yah's question for a minute. 374 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: So best case scenario, as you lose several dozen miles 375 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: of salmon stream. Yeah, it's it's more than that. That 376 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: gets into weather. They're gonna operate for twenty years, they're 377 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: gonna operate for a hundred. Right. That gets back to 378 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: the thing that drives us crazy. Where it's there's a 379 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: bait and switch going on right now. That's all there 380 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: is to it. So if you read full build out, 381 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: you you destroy hundreds of miles of salmon stream and 382 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: you'd have this huge excavation. And then you got to 383 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: remember the pit serves as a sump, so all the 384 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: water in around there that's charging all these these systems 385 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: that have these very complex um interchanges of surface and 386 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: subsurface water, it all just sucks towards the pit that 387 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: will be holding the the tailings. So how big is 388 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: the pit we don't know as of yet because we 389 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: don't know what the you know, the proposal that's going 390 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: to possibly get approved by them federal government is. But 391 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: it would be one thousand seventy ft deep and one 392 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: thousand seventy ft deep, and it's gonna be a good 393 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: episode of Deep Drop Boys. And then i'd have to 394 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, I can't remember exactly how many miles by 395 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: how many miles, but we're talking miles. I've kind of 396 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: lost some of this stuff. You couldn't drink no no 397 00:23:53,480 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: like no amount a like stry pen. No huh, let's 398 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: let's let's cover off our worst case. Yeah, So we 399 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: hired an expert to look at what would happen if 400 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: you had a tailing stam failure, because the Army Corps 401 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: of Engineers did not require Pebble to do that during 402 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: the e I S process, which seems that doesn't seem 403 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: to be looking at all them things that could or 404 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: could not happen, right, Um, So we hired an expert 405 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: and he showed, if you know a tailing dam, let go, 406 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: you would have waste that would reach Bristol Bay. So 407 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: the Pebble prospect is a long way from Bristol Bay. 408 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: It's about hundred miles up river and up the watershed. 409 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: It's enormous watershed. It's like the size of Wisconsin, you know. 410 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: So and you know, he just he said, based on 411 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: what I know and what I've seen in other places, 412 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: you would have mine waste that would reach all the 413 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: way to the Pacific Ocean. The Bristol Bay itself salt 414 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: wire and would essentially wipe out the whole system for 415 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: a period of years. And we started going to the 416 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: public with this presentation, We're going to the commercial fishing 417 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: fleet because you know, you have to have the commercial 418 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: fishing fleet on your side out there if you're going 419 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: to if you could actually make up a difference politically 420 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: and start to do a presentation for all these all 421 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: these guys before the and women. A matter of fact, 422 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: one of my co workers is a commercial fishing boat captain. 423 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: So Um and Pebble hated the information so much that 424 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: they suit us. So there's there's a bunch of details there, 425 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: but yeah, they just wanted to kind of squelch public debate. 426 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: They didn't want anybody covering this part of the issue 427 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: because you know, it's really problematic. They didn't want to 428 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: talk about the failure, right, they don't want and then 429 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: they want us talk about it either, so because it'll 430 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: just sit there for thousands and thousands of years fine 431 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: or un earthing tailings damn collapses, you know that happened, 432 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: and there they're arguing, would be like, no, it will 433 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: just always be there, but it will always be fine. 434 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And then you know the evidence is starting 435 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: to really come in. Right, So you had that catastrophe 436 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: down in Brazil a couple of years ago, where and 437 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: that was a modern mind run by a modern company, 438 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, a well capitalized company that really knew what 439 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: they were doing, and tailing dam let go went to 440 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: destroy the river and killed people. And then you had 441 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: the case of the mom Polly um mine in British Columbian, 442 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: a tributary of the Fraser, which is a sacay salmon 443 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: producer in British Columbia, and they had a catastrophic tailings 444 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: damn failure, and you know it's just it's a mess. 445 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: Or five years later in productivity at question the lake 446 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: which the waste went out into his way down, and 447 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, these things can fail. In the recent years, 448 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: I've read about mass fish die offs from things ranging 449 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: from a farmer putting a bunch of hog ship in 450 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: a pile next to a trout stream, bourbon spilling out 451 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: of a distillery during a fire, milk killing miles of 452 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: fish out of a river. It's like, these things happen 453 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: all the time, and we're talking about things that most 454 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: of them sitting like regards like fairly benign milk. Yeah 455 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: you can, you can those things versus sulfuric acid. Yeah, 456 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: I know. It's like it's like it's like, what's the 457 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: big deal. It's like, well, i'll tell you the big deal. 458 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: Ten miles of fish are dead. And when we're talking 459 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: about where this is right, like going towards Alamna. And 460 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: this is one thing just having guided in that area 461 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: for years, primarily as as a trout guy, but also 462 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: for salmon, that is one of there's a reason why 463 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: people spend tens of thousands of dollars to go there 464 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: just fish for a week or two there. I don't 465 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: know of a trout fishery like that Iliamna system that 466 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: produces just massive, massive, super healthy rainbows and all based 467 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: on the salmon bringing the energy back up through that. 468 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: Everything about that, everything about that whole area, flora, fauna, 469 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: everything is based on the nutrient return from the salmon 470 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: coming from the ocean and dragging a hundred some odd 471 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: miles upstream. None of that stuff would exist without that 472 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: nutrient return. And so if you're if you're talking about 473 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: losing this particular place, and and you know when I 474 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: was up there, I have to admit I hated sak guiding. 475 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: Sak guiding is probably the most boring type of fishing 476 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: you could imagine. But so there's like the two levels 477 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: of of of reasons why I opposed this. One is 478 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: the super personal level, which is that I love the 479 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: place and I love those trout, probably as much as 480 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: any fish I've ever fished for. But then the bigger 481 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: picture of what the saki represent to the economy into 482 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: the whole area, Like I may not have wanted to 483 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: fish for impersonally, but what they do for Alaska and 484 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: what they do for the planet is massive, and to 485 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: lose all that, it's just it's it's not the same 486 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: as like your backyard creek. Not to say you shouldn't 487 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: love your background backyard creek, but lake only I'm in 488 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: that whole system and then gat those places are incredible. Yeah, 489 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: Miles brings up a good point that people need to 490 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: think about. And you talk about Sam and is that 491 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: um Well, first off, so when sok I gets born, 492 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: walk me through this to him, like a ski gets hatched, 493 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: he goes down and spend that they dropped down to 494 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: a lake. Correct, They usually spawn an inlet inlet streams 495 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: coming into lakes. But there's all these different genetic subgroups 496 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: out in Bristol Bay. This this really diverse portfolio of 497 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: different salmon stocks. So it's really amazing at beach spawners 498 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: and you have some lake spawners, but usually it's a 499 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: it's a it's a smaller stream coming into a big lake, 500 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: and then those juveniles hang out for how long in 501 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: that couple of years year, a year, two years, and 502 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: they're roughly how big when they finally go and hit 503 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: the hill like a finger right, and then there how 504 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: big when they come back, probably averaging around five six 505 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: seven pounds. So when when Miles mentions this, like this 506 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: sort of like exchange, you have an area where you 507 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: have an extraordinarily rich marine environment in a somewhat sterile 508 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: land environment and just in terms of like in terms 509 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: of biodiversity, like it's it's stunning in the marine environment 510 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: and and stunning but like limited in the land environment, 511 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: meaning you don't have like you have like a great 512 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: wealth of like large land mammals that are very inspiring 513 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: and stuff. But when you get down like just like 514 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: the species count relative to the marine environment, it's kind 515 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: of low. So if you have fifty seven million sacks 516 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: that are gonna go up this river, and even if 517 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: humans then consume forty million of them, seventeen million five 518 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: to six pound fish basically transport marine resource back up 519 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: and to feed the land, millions and millions of pounds 520 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: of like carbon based life go up and it gets 521 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: eaten by everything and shout out by everything everywhere and 522 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: decomposes and feeds the plants, feeds the fish, feeds the bears, 523 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: the birds. It's like that's where it's kind of like 524 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: life comes from, right from catisflies to brown bears. So 525 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: if you want to, like you talk, if you talk 526 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: about oh yeah, so the salmon are gone. You know. 527 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: My kids always like to ask, like, why do we 528 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: have mosquitoes? Oh my, I don't know, man, but I 529 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: bet you in a weird way if we didn't things 530 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: that go to ship, you know, and you remove that, 531 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: it's like you're removing more than It's not like, oh, 532 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: forty million people have to find a different thing for supper. 533 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: This is different than that. Yeah. I mean they've even 534 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: done studies in British Columbia now where where you know, 535 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: the salmon runs have been greatly diminished and the the 536 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: ecosystem is just not the same. There isn't as much wildlife, 537 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: there aren't as many insects. I mean, these these systems 538 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: are just completely dependent on salmon. There wouldn't be anything 539 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: in these rivers really, maybe some growling, some small grawling, right, 540 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: but you wouldn't have you wouldn't have the rainbow trout either, 541 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: which we haven't talked about. You wouldn't have this incredibly huge, 542 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: vicious rainbow trout fishery either. You know, everything's just keyed 543 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: in on on the salmon lifecycle. My boy, Jimmy, I 544 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: went to my first pebble mine event when he was 545 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: an infant. He's ten years old, but he was a baby. 546 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: He's now ten. It was an event in New York 547 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: and it was being put on by It was partially 548 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: being put on by Tiffany's, the jewelry company, and Tiffany 549 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: was was saying and even at that time, Uh, sure 550 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: we sell all kinds of golden ship, but we're making 551 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: a promise that we will not carry these people's gold. 552 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: How could Why were we talking about it ten years 553 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: ago and we're still talking about it now? Like what 554 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 1: was happening then? Like how did it even come up 555 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: to something like what I'm not asking very clear question. 556 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: Let's start with this question. When did someone first say, 557 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: holy ship, we should mind some gold out there on 558 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: Tholds Rivers, probably probably twenty years ago. And the pe 559 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: the name pebble comes from a geologist flew over the 560 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: mind site and it reminded him of the Pebble Beach 561 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: golf course. So because all the water holes. You know, 562 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: So the history is really is that really what it 563 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: goes from? Yeah, yeah, I didn't know that. It's like 564 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: sometimes the names you think, na, yeah, yeah, the history 565 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: is a little bit like to smack that guy in 566 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: the it looks like golf course. That the opposite of 567 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: a golf course. But the history is a little bit tragic. Right. 568 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: So you had all these lands that were set aside 569 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: by the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act, and there 570 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: were all these lands that we all from selection and 571 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: then they whittled it down, explain that I never heard 572 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: of that you never heard of in oh yeah, so 573 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: Anoka and there was a there was a huge selection pool. 574 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: And then I got win that was that was around 575 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: like the Native Claim Settlement Act, and there was a 576 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: Settlement Act and then they decided something needs to be 577 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: done to set aside a bunch of Alaska's lands for 578 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: the National Interest for created Wrangle SA National Park. I 579 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: didn't know that that was. I didn't know that that 580 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: that that component of that era had a name. Yeah. 581 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: So I added a hundred million acres to the conservation 582 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: system in the United States so it's unbelieved all now 583 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: as part of this is elaborate deal brokered around, like 584 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: what we're gonna do with this new state, and then 585 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: how we're gonna get away from the reservation system that 586 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: we used in the US, and how we're gonna settle 587 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: with natives. That was the first piece of legislation. Then 588 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: there was sort of lands conservation legislation, and there were 589 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: more lands that were part of the selection pool that 590 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: ended up in passing in the legislation, and one piece 591 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: was called the Ilianda Game Refuge, and it's the area 592 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: that now includes a Pebble Prospect. And if you look 593 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: at the rest of the land use patterns, management panterns 594 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: out there, they're all set aside for salmon production and conservation. 595 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: Right you got Lake Clark National Park, you have cat 596 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: My National Park, and then you have the biggest state 597 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: park in the United States, would tick Chick. That's two 598 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: million acre state park, and all of them have huge 599 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: salmon production, all these you know, low gradient streams and 600 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: these big lakes that are really productive. And then this 601 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: Alianda Game Refuge would have been the last piece of 602 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: the wild salmon puzzled right out there. You would have 603 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: the great salmon production zone in the world, and it 604 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: would all be safeguarded and perpetuity, And I mean, I 605 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: think that's something to be really proud of as an 606 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: American citizen. And you know, the state actually managed that 607 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: area for a long time for fishing game, mostly for 608 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: salmon production, but also for cariboo. There's some mild Chatton 609 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: heard out there and and moose and and the two 610 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: thousand five we had a governor and a chief of 611 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: staff who decided that they wanted to take Alaska in 612 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: a different direction. There had been all these rumors that 613 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: there was a huge golden copper deposit out there. There 614 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: was all this breathless talk of one of the world's 615 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: great claims. And they took a management plan that was 616 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: based on you know, renewable resources and have been deeply 617 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: vetted with the local people out there, and they almost 618 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: overnight turned it into this area that was going to 619 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: be open in mineral claim staking. And that's when you 620 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: start to see, you know, big mining companies and junior 621 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: mining companies all start to take a hard look at 622 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, can we make a ton of money out here? 623 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: And we've been fighting it ever since. So you know, 624 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: I I was working for Trout Unlimited and we were 625 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: working on some watershed restoration projects and some forest conservation 626 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: work in Southeast Alaska and Pacific's Amon Treaty. And I 627 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: got a call from this lodge owner guy named Brian Kraft, 628 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: who has uh two lodges out there, and he said, hey, 629 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: you're the You're the Trout Sky and I'm like, yeah, 630 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: because I gotta I got an issue for you, and 631 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: that the rest has been history. That's that was seriously. Yeah, 632 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: it's been two thousand five. And he had to uh 633 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: two uh guys at his lodge from Newmont Cold and 634 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: he showed them the preliminary um propaganda from from Pebble 635 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: and Brian was like, hey, there's gonna be more people 636 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: out here. You know, it'll be good for my lodge, 637 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: you know, would be more customers. And these new Mont guys, 638 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: there are two experts that were getting close to retirement. 639 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: They said, flies over the mindset, and so he did. 640 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: And they came back and they looked at what was 641 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: proposed and they said, you can't let this happen. There's 642 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: so much water here, there's so much habitat that's going 643 00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: to be destroyed. There's no way you can do that 644 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: us and have it be successful, you know with you know, 645 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: from a from a balance standpoint, yeah you could, you 646 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: could do it, but you're going to destroy this place 647 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: if you allowed to happen. And that put the fear 648 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: of God and Brian, and Brian started calling me. And 649 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: I've been lucky enough to have a whole bunch of 650 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: great people I've worked with throughout the years. And you know, 651 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time out in the region 652 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 1: with the people who live there who hate the idea 653 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: of the mind at a tune up about opposition. So 654 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: it's been it's been a long grind. We're still in it. 655 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 1: Get back to your question from a long time ago. 656 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: We're still in it because of politics, right, the pendulum 657 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: keeps swinging back and forth as to what we're gonna 658 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: do with her with our you know, best wild places, 659 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: and here we are. You mentioned the locals there, it's 660 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: predominly Native Alaska, Alaska Native and what's that? What's their 661 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: take off? I mean, just for full clarity here, we 662 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: had arranged to have a colleague a year, a Native 663 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: Alaskan colleague years come down. But just because of the 664 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: landscape with COVID and everything. She wasn't able to come down. 665 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: But what's um, what's what has been that communities and 666 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: in the history of the things its two thousand five, 667 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,919 Speaker 1: what has been that community's just asking you to step 668 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: in and articulative, you know, as much as you're comfortable 669 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: articulating their viewpoint on it. Uh. What has been that 670 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: community's response to this? Yeah, I mean they've led the 671 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: effort from the beginning. You know, even before Brian called me. 672 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: There are a lot of local people, some of the 673 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: elders out there, Uh, and so some of the younger 674 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: people that just said, this is we don't want this, 675 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, this is this goes contrary to everything we 676 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: believe in and everything that we've you know, our entire culture. Um. 677 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: So there's been a bunch of polling done by the 678 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: Regional Native Corporation out there, and about eight of their 679 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 1: shareholders opposed development of the mind and that's pretty exceptional Alaska. 680 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: Used Really, the closer you get to a development project, 681 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,879 Speaker 1: the more support you have for it. You know, it's 682 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: still a rural place. We're still heavily dependent on natural 683 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: resource development for for incommon you know, wealth and paying 684 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: for state government and the locals hate the idea, and 685 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: they've been the leaders since the beginning. You know. I 686 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: think one of the things that's been unique is we 687 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: showed up. We had a lot of ideas and a 688 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: lot of opinions as to how a campaign should work, 689 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: and we realized pretty quickly that we needed to go 690 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: to these communities. We needed to go um talk to 691 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: locals and kind of let them display leadership. And I 692 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: think that's why we've been so successful of holding back 693 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: mind development for so long. You know, you're talking one 694 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: of the richest golden copper deposits in the world, and 695 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: you've had politics that, to a certain degree, have been 696 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: in favor of doing that that kind of stuff, but 697 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: having that local opposition has just been amazing. Yeah, it's 698 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: too bad. It's too bad. Alana her you who couldn't 699 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: come down and join us. She's been she's been working 700 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: on Pebble or entire adult life. She started working on 701 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: when she was in Hoist, before she was like grade school. So, 702 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: and that's coming from the perspective of someone whose family 703 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: and community members live a subsistence lifestyle. Yeah, it's kind 704 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: of a based on the resource. Yeah, it's kind of 705 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: a blend out there. You know, you have you have 706 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: a lot of Alaska Natives who are commercial fishermen as well. 707 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: So they the gill Net and Trout unlimiteds had this 708 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: amazing program for the last ten years now where they're 709 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: trying to build up a stable of of local guides, 710 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: getting more Alaska Native kids from the region to become 711 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: sport fishing guides. And the regional Native corporation out there, 712 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: Bristol Bay Native Corporation just bought one of the big 713 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: lodge concessions and they run three lodges. Now, They've got 714 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: capt my Land and they have they have a mission lodge, 715 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: and they're trying to get more their their people working 716 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: at the lodgest. So I think, you know, I think 717 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: you're going to see more local ownership and operation of 718 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: the sport fishing industry as well. Yeah, so, which is good. 719 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: I mean in terms of like the diversified revenue, you 720 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: know what, what has been some of the I think 721 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: there's like an issue fatigue that takes place. Yeah, with 722 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: pebble about it, because like I was saying, I haven't 723 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: mapped every twist and turn, but um, I'm be here 724 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: about this thing all the time. And I've been alarmed 725 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 1: about it and concerned about it all along, and we're always, 726 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, off of being invited to talk about it, 727 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: and it's always like, this is the turning point. But 728 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 1: it was a turning point a decade ago. Like why 729 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: why are there so many? You know, I remember the thing, 730 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, remember Paul Wolf, what's remember someone saying like 731 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: you could put a wooden steak in Paul Wolf, what's 732 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: his heart? And he would turn up in the next 733 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:04,720 Speaker 1: administration being like, uh, why is it that it won't 734 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: go away? But it always seems like this is the 735 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: turning point. How many turning points are there? Or like, 736 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: tell me about some turning I mean I don't know. 737 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I stopped trying to politics. You 738 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,399 Speaker 1: can't predict it anymore, right, So big turning points? Give 739 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 1: me a turning point from a decade? So when when? When? 740 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: So when Rio Tinto and Anglo American, two of the 741 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: largest mining companies in the world, decided to walk away 742 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: from the pebble prospect that was huge And honestly, I 743 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 1: wish you would have had a little bigger party. You know, 744 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: we kind of we knew that the saga wasn't over. 745 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: But to see two of the major mining companies in 746 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,800 Speaker 1: the world walk away from a you know, half a 747 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: billion dollar investment, that was really significant. I don't for 748 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: those of us that were just kind of working day 749 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: in and day out, I think we we didn't really 750 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: totally understand the significance of that, right, I mean, you know, 751 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: And what did they publicly say, and what is the 752 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: rumor mill about why they walked publicly? I think they 753 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: said that they were it was during you know, they 754 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: were coming we were coming up on the on the 755 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: big you know, global economic downturn, and they just decided 756 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 1: to focus their their work on on minds that were 757 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: closer to operation, closer to coming to fruition. You know, 758 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: you need to still knew they had a big permitting 759 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: process and huge infrastructure costs. They were like, we're gonna 760 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna shrink a little bit here and focus on 761 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: a few other prospects in other places around the world. Um. 762 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: That's what they said publicly, And then we heard internally 763 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 1: that there was a there's a real tug of war 764 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: between the two companies that you know, one wanted to 765 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: try to do it in a way that wouldn't have 766 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 1: the huge negative impacts that we've been talking about, and 767 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: the other one said, there's no way you can make 768 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: any money doing that because the or grade, the or 769 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 1: body is a low grade and you need a massive 770 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: excavation to get to the point where you're gonna make 771 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: any money. So that tug of war, you know, they 772 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: just they walked away, and then UM then first Quantum 773 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: was the next big operator that came in, and they 774 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: walked away. And those are really significant events. UM. The 775 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: other really big significant event was when at the talent 776 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: of the Obama administration, they used Clean Water Act Authority 777 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,439 Speaker 1: to say, UM, essentially that we're not going to grant 778 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: you the Dredge and phil permit, the four Old four permit, UM, 779 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: because we have looked at the proposed mind and it's 780 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: going to have negative, serious negative impacts on wetlands and 781 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: waterways of the United States. And we got really close 782 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:42,879 Speaker 1: to uh to it a victory, I think. UM. Through 783 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: that process, it was in the you know, it went 784 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: into the courts. Probable challenged it in the courts, and 785 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: it kind of languished in the courts for a couple 786 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: of years, and then UM, the Trump administration came in 787 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 1: and they settled the outstanding lawsuits with Pebble Limited Partnership 788 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 1: to the favor of Pebble Limited Partnership and started kind 789 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: of restarted the permanent clock again. So that's where we're at. 790 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,239 Speaker 1: Who who actually owns the land? Where the whose land is? 791 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: Where the actual thing is gonna stay of Alaska, but 792 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,319 Speaker 1: it becomes federal because there's just implications for all the stuff. 793 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, because there's federal waters. So the Clean Water 794 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: Act comes into play in the Army Corps of Engineers, 795 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: is the Permittee of record? What is uh? What's the 796 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: state's general groove about this? The governor, the current governor, 797 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: he's going home. He likes it. Yeah, what's you like 798 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,800 Speaker 1: about it? I? You know, I think he sees it 799 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: as the next big thing, right you Now, we're we're 800 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: getting a lot less money for oil. There's less oil 801 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: going through the Alaska Pipeline. There's lots of people talking 802 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 1: about how we're gonna be using less oil in the future. 803 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I believe that yet, but um so, 804 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: I think that the governor is looking for that next 805 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,879 Speaker 1: big resource development play that's going to you know, fill 806 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,319 Speaker 1: the Alaskan coffers again. Because we don't pay any state 807 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: income tax or any state sales tax, and we're heavily 808 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 1: dependent on oil revenue for all our budget. Yeah, you 809 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 1: also heavily. There's some interesting things about Alaska's economy that 810 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: I think people should understand is that, uh one, it's 811 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,479 Speaker 1: a federal spending a little bit of a sink federal wise, yeah, 812 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:35,359 Speaker 1: meaning the federal government spends far more in Alaska then 813 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: they get in tax revenue. Yeah, way more. It's the 814 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: states that people love to hate. I think New Jersey 815 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,879 Speaker 1: pays in better than any like, Like the Feds pull 816 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,320 Speaker 1: more money out of New Jersey than they put in, 817 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,320 Speaker 1: and I think that's the strongest performing state. Alaska is 818 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: one of the weakest. Yeah yeah, yeah, I want to 819 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,520 Speaker 1: change our license plate from last frontier to give me 820 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: my money and leave me alone. So then instead of 821 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 1: paying state taxes in Alaska, the state pays you. Right. 822 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: So they have a thing called the Permanent Fund, and 823 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,640 Speaker 1: they take the state has all these lucrative oil leases 824 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:18,320 Speaker 1: on state land. Um, they generate so much money that 825 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: they cut you a check and this and the check 826 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: that you get caught as a citizen of Alaska and 827 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: your members of your household uh, isn't tied directly to 828 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: the price of oil. It's tied to the health of 829 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,400 Speaker 1: the fund. But the health of the fund is definitely 830 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: influenced by the price of oil. So you could go 831 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: up there, Let's say you're particularly fecunned individual, you and 832 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 1: your wife could move up there and produce six kids 833 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,719 Speaker 1: and make quite a tidy little sum. What was what 834 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,239 Speaker 1: was the fund? What was the fun play? What did 835 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: the fun pay last year? You know, it's only like 836 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: a thousand bucks last year, So it's actually, you know, 837 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: we're coming to the end of the road of you know, 838 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: but it's it's it highs. It's like three grand. Yeah, 839 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 1: So you could go up there and have like two 840 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,240 Speaker 1: people go up there, have six kids and pull twenty 841 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,479 Speaker 1: four k just in uh. It's been known to happen 842 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: and for a year. Yeah, I got friends with you 843 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 1: with his blood money. I got one body who he 844 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: every year takes his check and puts it into his 845 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,959 Speaker 1: kids college fund because he thinks he thinks it's blood money. 846 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's actually a really cool concept. But it 847 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,239 Speaker 1: gets to the fact that you know, oil is not 848 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,439 Speaker 1: going to happen again. You know, the amount we get 849 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: per barrel produced is way higher than you get from minerals. 850 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: It's like you know, on each on each barrel of oil, 851 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,359 Speaker 1: and for minerals, our royalties regime is the same as 852 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 1: on federal lands. Right, it's like less than one return. 853 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,600 Speaker 1: So it's not gonna do what our governor done Levy 854 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,959 Speaker 1: wants it to do. Yeah, let me, I forgot finish. 855 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 1: The point about the economy there is that when oil 856 00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:00,720 Speaker 1: goes south, everything goes south, everything goes soun school education 857 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 1: goes so like university spending, public school spending. Like they 858 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,239 Speaker 1: get hit man, and they're kind of living in a 859 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: separate like just because there's a something could happen in 860 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,800 Speaker 1: the lower forty eight like whatever, housing thing, whatever, like 861 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: different blips, they're living a different reality. Like their ship 862 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: is driven by a completely different set of factors. So 863 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 1: you could see, like if oil is going the way 864 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: you're saying, you can see that someone who's charged by 865 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: voters with looking at the long term financial prospects for 866 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: his state could be excused for thinking like we gotta 867 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,920 Speaker 1: do something, yeah yeah, and we have other minds, you know, 868 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,880 Speaker 1: and you don't you don't see the big, huge controversy 869 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: around some of these other minds, whether it's Fort Knox 870 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: or Red Dog, you know, some of the some of 871 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: the bigger operating minds in the United States. And it's 872 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,239 Speaker 1: definitely a part of the economy. And we all, you know, 873 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,680 Speaker 1: use all these materials that are coming out of the 874 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: ground for you know, our modern lifestyle. So we're not 875 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 1: saying that this is an anti mining campaign, but size 876 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,640 Speaker 1: type location again, and then you look at what's at stake, 877 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 1: and you know, you have about ten thousand American jobs 878 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,000 Speaker 1: that are depending on depending on that fishery. So you know, 879 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: in a good year, this was not a good year 880 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,800 Speaker 1: because of COVID, salmon prices were in the toilet, and 881 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,839 Speaker 1: you know, the export market was non existent. But if 882 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: you know you're a good gillnet captain, in a good year, 883 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,720 Speaker 1: you can make a hundred thousand bucks in six weeks, 884 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: and you have a whole the whole host of sport 885 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,560 Speaker 1: fishing lodges out there that are charging upwards the twelve 886 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: grand a week, and you have guides and you have 887 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: pilots and all kinds of you know, different segments of 888 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,279 Speaker 1: that economy are based on on that fishery and the 889 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,400 Speaker 1: things renewable salmon prices were little this year. Yeah, they 890 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,839 Speaker 1: were way down this yeah, attributed to COVID. Demand was down, 891 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,600 Speaker 1: you know. And then there was the trade stuff with China, 892 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,719 Speaker 1: because the Chinese buy a lot of Bristol based ok 893 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I know that that Chinese stuff is 894 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: messing with some of the logging projects. I think that 895 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: that point you bring up is one that I've dealt with, 896 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,320 Speaker 1: having written in the past a lot about mining issues 897 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,719 Speaker 1: and pebble, among others, primarily for fishing focus publications. I've 898 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: I've definitely taken some scrutiny saying, well, you just anti 899 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,759 Speaker 1: mining and and you know, to be fair to some 900 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,600 Speaker 1: of those points, my interests lie in the fish, right. 901 00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,879 Speaker 1: I don't make my living off of minds, but I don't. 902 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 1: I try to be as I look at these issues 903 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,960 Speaker 1: as as objective as I can be. And when you 904 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: talk about pebble mind you talk about some of the 905 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: other sulfide type minds. And as I learned more about 906 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 1: this in doing some of that reporting and understood like 907 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,359 Speaker 1: the process by which these byproducts come about in these 908 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,439 Speaker 1: minds and how toxic they can be, and when they're 909 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: located right next to a waterway, that I personally think 910 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: it's important. I think that you have to. I personally 911 00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,400 Speaker 1: think you should be drawing lines on well, this is 912 00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 1: a place we shouldn't have this type of mind. And 913 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,920 Speaker 1: this not to say we can't have sulified minds elsewhere 914 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,200 Speaker 1: where there will still be risk, but it's not located 915 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 1: right next to a place that I really want to 916 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,759 Speaker 1: go fishing and a lot of other people want to 917 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: make their living off of. I don't think it's bad 918 00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: necessarily to come out and claim like your personal steak 919 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,840 Speaker 1: on something. No, it's like it's better than the opposite, 920 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,000 Speaker 1: and it's better than you know, it's better than when 921 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:28,840 Speaker 1: people um don't lay out they're they're sort of like 922 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,800 Speaker 1: personal investment in an issue and act like they're just 923 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: acting like completely altruistically. That drives me not. I would 924 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,200 Speaker 1: rather be like, I support these policies, and I'll be 925 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,680 Speaker 1: frank with you, it's good for me financially, I like 926 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,640 Speaker 1: I like it. I like it aesthetically, I like it 927 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,120 Speaker 1: financially or whatever. So to be like, you know, I 928 00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:50,680 Speaker 1: just try to like clear up that all the time 929 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,720 Speaker 1: by saying my view in terms of when I pursue 930 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,400 Speaker 1: like my sort of like professional work and the media 931 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,080 Speaker 1: products that I produced, and things like I try to 932 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:06,640 Speaker 1: be that I won't belabor you with my opinions about 933 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,480 Speaker 1: things that don't impact like the world of like sort 934 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,520 Speaker 1: of like what's good for hunters and anglers? Right, And 935 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,440 Speaker 1: I think this is just really shitty for hunters and anglers. 936 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,880 Speaker 1: I think people minds like shitty for hunters and anglers. 937 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: So I'll come out and say like where I'm coming 938 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 1: from on it, And I also just think it's I 939 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,920 Speaker 1: also think that it's uh. I don't like the country 940 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,960 Speaker 1: to make big mistakes where you confuse short term where 941 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,279 Speaker 1: where like you pursue short term gain and and do 942 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,680 Speaker 1: things that later we will sit and look like that 943 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,960 Speaker 1: in a hundred years when we're being analyzed by that generation, 944 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,880 Speaker 1: that it will be like what idiots. Yeah, well, I 945 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,640 Speaker 1: mean we talk about a sulfide mind much smaller, but 946 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,440 Speaker 1: some of this in the third episode of Dots Boat, right, 947 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,320 Speaker 1: and and it's the same principle, and it's about deciding 948 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,120 Speaker 1: like this particular kind of mind right next to this 949 00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,879 Speaker 1: watershed could be problematic for those of us who really 950 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: these fish and maybe depend on them. I do think though, 951 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 1: like when again going back to the writing that I 952 00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: was doing. I felt like I had a responsibility not 953 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,120 Speaker 1: just to be honest about my inclinations, but also to say, like, 954 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,360 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm just anti mining. I'm not. I 955 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,279 Speaker 1: don't have this pie in the sky vision where we 956 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: can survive in modern society without mining for minerals. It's 957 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,920 Speaker 1: just deciding which places we can do that and then 958 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: figuring out how to price them accordingly. Yeah, that's good, 959 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: that's a good point. And so that's gonna cost you more. 960 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 1: It's gonna cost you more if we if we mind 961 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,719 Speaker 1: less of it, things are going to be more expensive. 962 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: And and I recognize that that that is a sacrifice 963 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:41,799 Speaker 1: that I am able to make, him willing to make, 964 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: and other people don't agree on. But to me, losing 965 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,680 Speaker 1: these fisheries it just isn't worth it. Can we get 966 00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,520 Speaker 1: a new minute? Like who who are these dudes? Like? 967 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,400 Speaker 1: Who are the constant dudes here? I know that we 968 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: have sort of the big mining companies that actually like 969 00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,319 Speaker 1: come in and that coming and like do the work right? 970 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,240 Speaker 1: They come in and do the work, They got the capital. 971 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: Like who who's the constant presence through this idea? Uh, 972 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: Northern dynasty minerals they're out of Vancouver, and the Pebble 973 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:16,080 Speaker 1: Limited Partnership is the subsidiary from from Northern Dynasty. And 974 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 1: what's their story. They're they're they're a minor, you know 975 00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,680 Speaker 1: they are. They're a non major. So they're kind of 976 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,920 Speaker 1: the set up people, right. They go out and they 977 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:29,920 Speaker 1: do the exploration, They provide all the background on on 978 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,560 Speaker 1: the geology and the and the and the mineralization, and 979 00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,759 Speaker 1: then they try to attract a major that would come 980 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,279 Speaker 1: in and invest billions of dollars and actually operate the 981 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,440 Speaker 1: mind How many people we talked about this outfit, you know, 982 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,320 Speaker 1: I don't know at this point. Maybe yeah, I wouldn't know. 983 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,280 Speaker 1: There's been a couple of figures that have been prominent 984 00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,960 Speaker 1: throughout the years. There was a guy named Bruce Jenkins, 985 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, that was profiled by Travis Rummel and Ben 986 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,160 Speaker 1: Knight and Red Gold. And that guy was great. He 987 00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 1: was like right out of Central Casting. I mean, everybody 988 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,759 Speaker 1: hated him immediately. And then uh, and then there's a 989 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,480 Speaker 1: guy named John Shiveley. He used to work for the 990 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,040 Speaker 1: Alaska Department and Natural Resources and he had to resign 991 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:10,080 Speaker 1: and during a vail of disgrace years ago, and you know, 992 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: he's just kind of like old Alaska, and it's like 993 00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,320 Speaker 1: trust me, you know, I would never do anything that 994 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't be for the benefit of the public. And he 995 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,760 Speaker 1: sold a couple hundred thousand dollars of pebble stock just 996 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago and then um like dumped 997 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,240 Speaker 1: or sold he he sold it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it 998 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,560 Speaker 1: was you know, it was in a moment when it 999 00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, probably looked like their stock was gonna go down. 1000 00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:36,960 Speaker 1: I should I should explain the reverence you just dropped 1001 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,760 Speaker 1: for folks. Red Gold was a film was two thousand seven, 1002 00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:44,920 Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, that was profiled. Yeah. I was guiding 1003 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: when it came out, and and it's worth if you 1004 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,040 Speaker 1: want to get some historical perspective on how this has 1005 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:50,560 Speaker 1: looked and how long has been going on, you should 1006 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:56,320 Speaker 1: check that one out. Seven. Oh so I went to 1007 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,480 Speaker 1: my first pebble event way before my kid was born, 1008 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,120 Speaker 1: because I had already been to a pebble event way 1009 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,840 Speaker 1: before Red Gold. Yeah, I mean it was it was 1010 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,240 Speaker 1: two five was when I first heard of But I 1011 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 1: was guiding up there then and that was like everybody 1012 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: was talking about this proposal sort of lines were getting 1013 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:24,440 Speaker 1: drawn at that point. Um, someone told me recently, is 1014 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,960 Speaker 1: it someone at the Northern Is it Northern Dynasties? That 1015 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,280 Speaker 1: what it's called. Yeah, it sounds like a name that 1016 00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,440 Speaker 1: you picked to be Like, it's like a name you 1017 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,400 Speaker 1: picked to be an asshole, to be the bad guy, 1018 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:40,160 Speaker 1: the Villainy. I've dealt with these guys for too long. 1019 00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,480 Speaker 1: I heard he remember recently that someone involved. There someone 1020 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 1: if they can get this thing across the finish line, 1021 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,760 Speaker 1: they get some absurd amount of one. Yeah, guy named 1022 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,440 Speaker 1: Tom Collier, and he worked for the Department of Interior 1023 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,680 Speaker 1: under Clinton H and he took this on. And he's 1024 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,440 Speaker 1: good at what he does. You know, he's Yeah, he's 1025 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: a Washington d C insider and what's the carrot in 1026 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,720 Speaker 1: front of his nose? Well, you know, if this thing 1027 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,120 Speaker 1: gets to gets to operation, he gets twelve and a 1028 00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,200 Speaker 1: half million bucks. I'll get the guy out in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, 1029 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,000 Speaker 1: if they if they get a record of decision signed, 1030 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,160 Speaker 1: it's four and a half million bucks. So yeah. We 1031 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 1: actually ran a little website for a while. They're called 1032 00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,840 Speaker 1: cash Grab Collier and it was pretty fun. So that's 1033 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,280 Speaker 1: what he's gotta do. Like he's he's motivated, like he 1034 00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: gets like, yeah yeah. And if you look at look 1035 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,520 Speaker 1: at some of the some of the handicappers out there 1036 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,320 Speaker 1: that really understand the mining industry in that world, you know, 1037 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,920 Speaker 1: they think that this is there's a lot of incentive 1038 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,680 Speaker 1: for the executives a puble limited partnership to just continue 1039 00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:43,880 Speaker 1: to hype this thing for as long as they possibly can, 1040 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:45,840 Speaker 1: right because as long as people are willing to give 1041 00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,840 Speaker 1: them money, willing to invest in their company, they can 1042 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,919 Speaker 1: skim off profits for themselves. Whether they get any closer 1043 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,680 Speaker 1: to a mine or not doesn't really matter, I think 1044 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:59,000 Speaker 1: to some of them, m hm, there's incentivized along the 1045 00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,880 Speaker 1: way to keep bumping. Yeah. Yeah. And they've spent so 1046 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,840 Speaker 1: much money on lobbyists for the last few years there. 1047 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,200 Speaker 1: They have actually spent more money on lobbyists in Washington, 1048 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,040 Speaker 1: d c. Than any other mining company, and that includes 1049 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:16,959 Speaker 1: you know, mining companies that are actually running mines five 1050 01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 1: years ago, five or six years ago. I bet my 1051 01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 1: sister in law a thousand dollars a year bet she 1052 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,360 Speaker 1: doesn't Alaska. There's a ten year bet where if they 1053 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,440 Speaker 1: hadn't we framed it this way, if a decade went 1054 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 1: by and they hadn't begun to pull minerals out of 1055 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,680 Speaker 1: the ground. In production. We framed it up in some 1056 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,080 Speaker 1: way like it's more than just you know, testing and 1057 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,000 Speaker 1: stuff like in full production. Like Megan Gold, She's gotta 1058 01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,360 Speaker 1: give me a thousand bucks. When did you make the 1059 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:58,040 Speaker 1: bet five or six years ago? You're gonna win? Sweet. 1060 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:00,720 Speaker 1: That's the one. That's one is I'm into that. That's 1061 01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: the long reason we're sitting here right now. I don't 1062 01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:08,640 Speaker 1: care what your motivations. It takes an army. What is 1063 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,960 Speaker 1: going Okay, we just hit like a new there was 1064 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,640 Speaker 1: a new Let's get let's get real detailed. Now, let's 1065 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 1: get real granular about what's happened over the last month. 1066 01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: There was some Army core ship, there was some e 1067 01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,640 Speaker 1: p A ship like what was happening over the last 1068 01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,560 Speaker 1: month or two. So we saw the final environmental impact 1069 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,680 Speaker 1: statement for the Pebble Mind made by who, the Army 1070 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,960 Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers. Why is it their deal? They are 1071 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:41,120 Speaker 1: the they are the they are the permit agency. They 1072 01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,320 Speaker 1: are the agency that issues the permit and then they 1073 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 1: go into a consultation with the Environmental Protection Agency about 1074 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: anything that has to do with UH excavating wetlands and 1075 01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,680 Speaker 1: impacting water. So it makes it the Army Corps of 1076 01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,360 Speaker 1: Engineers business because it involves digging stuff and making damns 1077 01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,160 Speaker 1: and whatnot. Because you always your Army Corp of Engineers 1078 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:08,280 Speaker 1: around like the big damns. Then ye okay, so it's 1079 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,640 Speaker 1: it's their deal because it's engineering. So they did a 1080 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,520 Speaker 1: final environmental impact statement which we thought was terrible. You know, 1081 01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,680 Speaker 1: it was just filled with holes or all these scientific 1082 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,840 Speaker 1: gaps there's you know, we spent a huge amount of 1083 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,680 Speaker 1: time and energy just to analyzing what they put out there, 1084 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,360 Speaker 1: and it was it's terrible. Well, but were you motivated 1085 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,280 Speaker 1: to think it was terrible because it didn't come up 1086 01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,920 Speaker 1: with the answer you wanted? Or is it like legitimately 1087 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,000 Speaker 1: poorly done. Well, we hired a bunch of people way 1088 01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,640 Speaker 1: smarter than me, and that would stake their reputations on 1089 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,400 Speaker 1: the fact that it was one of the worst, if 1090 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,960 Speaker 1: not the worst environmental impact statement they've ever seen. So 1091 01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: why was it shoddy? It is done really quickly one 1092 01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and it didn't look at all these you know, projected 1093 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,480 Speaker 1: impacts out over out over the time horizon, like didn't 1094 01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,640 Speaker 1: look at catastrophic tailing, damp failure, UM and the e 1095 01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,960 Speaker 1: I s. They they were talking about a wastewater treat 1096 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,880 Speaker 1: and facility that had never been operated before. Um. They 1097 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,320 Speaker 1: they we're trying to figure out how to build the 1098 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,120 Speaker 1: port out there on the west side of cook Inlet, 1099 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,240 Speaker 1: which is not a not an easy place to build 1100 01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,960 Speaker 1: a port, and they were just huge gaps asked. You know, 1101 01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,240 Speaker 1: it was just like we're gonna we say, we're gonna 1102 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,040 Speaker 1: do this, and then there would just be a big 1103 01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,080 Speaker 1: gap as to how they were going to actually achieve 1104 01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,600 Speaker 1: that and then build a port. Yeah, right, because you's 1105 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:30,640 Speaker 1: got to land all this equipment and build roads to 1106 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,720 Speaker 1: get it there. And yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know 1107 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,360 Speaker 1: you're dealing with cook Inlet, which is the second highest 1108 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,880 Speaker 1: tide fluctuation in the world, and starting about now, the 1109 01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,960 Speaker 1: weather really gets bad on a very consistent basis. So 1110 01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,600 Speaker 1: we lots of gaps, lots of holes, lots of technical details. 1111 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,640 Speaker 1: So we think needed to be figured out with someone 1112 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,439 Speaker 1: leaning on them to get it done in a hurry 1113 01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,680 Speaker 1: because they're just driving towards resolution. Yeah, so massive development project. 1114 01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,480 Speaker 1: You know, scaling scope has unprecedented in Alaska since they 1115 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,080 Speaker 1: discovered a while in the our slope. And you're gonna 1116 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:08,040 Speaker 1: get an eis done in two years. So we're the 1117 01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:11,920 Speaker 1: final environmental impact statement came out and then they have 1118 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,280 Speaker 1: to wait thirty days before they can issue a record 1119 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:18,160 Speaker 1: of decision. Who does the Army Corps. So there's like 1120 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 1: this thirty day waiting period after the environmental impact statement 1121 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,960 Speaker 1: comes out and we were expecting to see it pretty quickly, 1122 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:29,480 Speaker 1: and then uh, we started to see concern expressed by 1123 01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,680 Speaker 1: Donald Trump Jr. And Nick Ayers, who was the chief 1124 01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,840 Speaker 1: of staff to back up, come confused. The Army Corps 1125 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,160 Speaker 1: of Engineers does like the assessment, like here's what's gonna 1126 01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,680 Speaker 1: look like, here's risks, and then they deliver the final 1127 01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,640 Speaker 1: environmental Impact Statement to the public, and then there's a 1128 01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:51,760 Speaker 1: thirty day period between the issuance of that final and 1129 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,120 Speaker 1: what's called the record of decision. That's the minimum. The 1130 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,560 Speaker 1: record of decision is made by the Corp of Engineers. 1131 01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,080 Speaker 1: So they make the report, the they wait thirty days 1132 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:05,320 Speaker 1: and pretend to not know what the decision is. Yeah, 1133 01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,640 Speaker 1: but I don't get like, because they're making room for 1134 01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,880 Speaker 1: public input, there's no more public input. I don't really 1135 01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,000 Speaker 1: know what that thirty day period is about. You'd have 1136 01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,080 Speaker 1: to ask a lawyer, is it like you lay out 1137 01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,040 Speaker 1: all the pages, then you got one that you don't flip, 1138 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,360 Speaker 1: and you're like, and I'll flip this one in thirty days. Yeah, 1139 01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,320 Speaker 1: sort of like that. At least that's what it felt 1140 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,480 Speaker 1: like to us. You know, this thing seemed rigged, is it? 1141 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,960 Speaker 1: The part of the Core is doing putting together that 1142 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:36,000 Speaker 1: that report, and then there are other oversight committees or 1143 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,400 Speaker 1: bodies within the Core that are looking at that. Yeah, well, 1144 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,640 Speaker 1: there's usually probably a little bit, a little bit of 1145 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,600 Speaker 1: a paperwork exercise between that that final and the record 1146 01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:47,480 Speaker 1: of decision. There's probably something they have to craft that 1147 01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,320 Speaker 1: justifies the record of decision, right, And then then it 1148 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,440 Speaker 1: would go to the Army Corps for this consultation about 1149 01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,520 Speaker 1: whether they were going to issue or whether the whether 1150 01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,720 Speaker 1: the Army Corps was gonna give a thumbs up or 1151 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:03,920 Speaker 1: thumbs down to that Dredge and Phil permit. And we 1152 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,360 Speaker 1: thought it felt like a fad, a complete that the 1153 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,280 Speaker 1: record of decision was going to hit the streets, that 1154 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,200 Speaker 1: the that the Environmental Protection Agency was just gonna you know, 1155 01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,160 Speaker 1: not really weigh in one way or another, or they 1156 01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,000 Speaker 1: would say it was fine, and then we're going to 1157 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,960 Speaker 1: be going into court um, because that's that's the thing 1158 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,000 Speaker 1: is like whatever the Army Corps. Now we're getting into 1159 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:29,040 Speaker 1: future alternate reality. But the Army Corps does this, They 1160 01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:30,640 Speaker 1: do the record of decision and they say like we're 1161 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:35,960 Speaker 1: not We're on this is good, no problem. Um. At 1162 01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,600 Speaker 1: that point, if no one challenged it, at that point, 1163 01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,800 Speaker 1: were they like, it's off to the races we're making. 1164 01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,760 Speaker 1: Of mind if no one said, if there was no 1165 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:51,080 Speaker 1: one around to say no, yeah, yeah, that would be 1166 01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:55,200 Speaker 1: like that that that's the last hurdle. If the Environmental 1167 01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,439 Speaker 1: Protection Agency decided not to weigh in via the Clean 1168 01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:04,280 Speaker 1: Water Act, no one sued challenging the record of decision, Yeah, 1169 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,959 Speaker 1: that would be a it's not like the other person. 1170 01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,240 Speaker 1: You gotta go ask permission from right because the state's 1171 01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:13,160 Speaker 1: on board. Well then the state there there are a 1172 01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,920 Speaker 1: bunch of state permits. But perfectly honest, they're pretty that 1173 01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,680 Speaker 1: that those gears are greased. I mean, it's the it's 1174 01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:22,200 Speaker 1: the it's the four or four Dredge and Phil permit, 1175 01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,440 Speaker 1: which is the permit, and that's the one that's been 1176 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,320 Speaker 1: the source of this tug a war for you know, 1177 01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,920 Speaker 1: back to the last presidential administration. Like that's the big win. 1178 01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,800 Speaker 1: That's that's that's that's the prize. So so they finished 1179 01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,440 Speaker 1: the report, and the issue the report. You look at 1180 01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:42,000 Speaker 1: the report like this report is kind of shoddy. And 1181 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:49,680 Speaker 1: then also everywhere in the news is people weighing in, Um, yeah, 1182 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:52,560 Speaker 1: including you know folks we didn't expect to weigh in, 1183 01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,280 Speaker 1: you know, Donald Trump Jr. And Nick Arris who was 1184 01:07:55,360 --> 01:08:00,680 Speaker 1: chief of staff too, Vice President Pence, and TALMR. Carlson 1185 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,040 Speaker 1: on his show, and what's these guys great with it? Well, 1186 01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,320 Speaker 1: I think you know, from what I understand, Um, both 1187 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,080 Speaker 1: Trump Junior and Heiress have been out there quite a 1188 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,440 Speaker 1: few times, and you know, it's it's it's a one 1189 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,400 Speaker 1: of a kind place. They're just like, yeah, yeah, that's 1190 01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:19,840 Speaker 1: my sense was like, you know, the kind of the 1191 01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:27,720 Speaker 1: slogan of wrong mind, wrong place. Yeah, it seems to 1192 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:29,439 Speaker 1: have been like it was just as clean as that, 1193 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,840 Speaker 1: I think, So, you know, and I think for them, 1194 01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,360 Speaker 1: they've probably heard about it years because it does attract 1195 01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,840 Speaker 1: a lot of hunters and anglers and you know, people 1196 01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,920 Speaker 1: that don't self identify as you know, lefty environmentalists. You know, 1197 01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,080 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a source of a bunch of jobs 1198 01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,839 Speaker 1: and it's this great hunting and fishing destination. It's it's 1199 01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,040 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that actually brings people together. 1200 01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:51,639 Speaker 1: And I think they just identified it one. I think 1201 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,760 Speaker 1: they actually really care and too they saw it as 1202 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, good politics. And so then what so then 1203 01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,040 Speaker 1: what happened? I mean now we're talking like within the 1204 01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,760 Speaker 1: last few weeks. Yeah, So then the Army Corps of 1205 01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,120 Speaker 1: Engineers came back and said, you know what, we're not 1206 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,599 Speaker 1: going to sign the record of decision right now because 1207 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,000 Speaker 1: we need Pebble to go back and provide some more 1208 01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,560 Speaker 1: detail about how they're going to mitigate the destruction of 1209 01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,160 Speaker 1: wetlands associated with the development. So that's where we're at 1210 01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,840 Speaker 1: right now. They are saying that they will have that 1211 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:31,920 Speaker 1: mitigation plan done within a month, and that's okay. Sorry, 1212 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:33,760 Speaker 1: well I was gonna say that. I think that's where 1213 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,200 Speaker 1: I personally got sucked into thinking we had another one 1214 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,560 Speaker 1: of those moments of like turning point. I did a 1215 01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,760 Speaker 1: whole thing on on bent about this, saying like, hey, 1216 01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,479 Speaker 1: look at this great decision that came through, and I 1217 01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:47,840 Speaker 1: got flooded with emails from folks who know more than 1218 01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:49,320 Speaker 1: me and said like no, no, no, no, hold on 1219 01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,640 Speaker 1: the permit as written was kicked back. This is this 1220 01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,120 Speaker 1: is gonna keep going. There will be a revision and 1221 01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,400 Speaker 1: another process. This is this is not at all over. 1222 01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,439 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of a lot folks had 1223 01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,439 Speaker 1: a moment like, hey, we got it. Oh. I had 1224 01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,240 Speaker 1: one of those about thirty seconds and then I saw 1225 01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,720 Speaker 1: that people like, it's just another punt, and I got 1226 01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,519 Speaker 1: sucked into it and had to then make a slight 1227 01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,280 Speaker 1: retraction on the next episode, say I didn't get all 1228 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:28,120 Speaker 1: the all the facts straight on this one. Does the 1229 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:33,720 Speaker 1: president have authority to just kill it? Yeah? By what mechanism? 1230 01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,200 Speaker 1: Because they know you don't just run around like ending things, 1231 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:38,519 Speaker 1: and I mean it's like you do. You do things 1232 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,880 Speaker 1: through processes, right, It would be telling the head off 1233 01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,280 Speaker 1: the e P a region that's in charge of Alaska, 1234 01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,680 Speaker 1: saying like, here, allowed to use your authority under the 1235 01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,400 Speaker 1: Clean Water Act to reject the dredging phil permit to 1236 01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,240 Speaker 1: use your veto authority. And that's what the last administrator 1237 01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:58,599 Speaker 1: did under Obama. So yeah, because you see how things 1238 01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,719 Speaker 1: work like that, Like I was in me used recently 1239 01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:07,400 Speaker 1: to see that um that like Attorney General bar right, 1240 01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:12,120 Speaker 1: like in a call with attorneys general gives kind of 1241 01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:16,560 Speaker 1: like guidance like we would like to see, you know, 1242 01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,280 Speaker 1: we would like to see action taken in these areas. 1243 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,240 Speaker 1: And then people are like, Okay, so cool, Yeah I 1244 01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,040 Speaker 1: can do that. So I can imagine there could be 1245 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,639 Speaker 1: presidential sort of you know, even him just saying it's 1246 01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,200 Speaker 1: not gonna happen. It will never let it happen. Right, 1247 01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,479 Speaker 1: if you were to say that, it would require like steps. 1248 01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,320 Speaker 1: You know, It's not like he can't just like you know, 1249 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,280 Speaker 1: say that on Twitter and have that be the end 1250 01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,160 Speaker 1: of it. It would have to be that it would 1251 01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:48,720 Speaker 1: flow that way. Yeah, and and and you know, and 1252 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:53,200 Speaker 1: then some some of our cohorts think that short of 1253 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,080 Speaker 1: using that e p A veto the the Army Corps 1254 01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,599 Speaker 1: could just reject the permit. That doesn't reject it forever, right, 1255 01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,400 Speaker 1: and it it kind of kicks the can down the road. 1256 01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:05,360 Speaker 1: But it would be significant, there's no doubt. But now 1257 01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:10,040 Speaker 1: there's been another tweet that came from the president, uh 1258 01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,360 Speaker 1: where he very hard, very hard to interpret, where yeah, 1259 01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,920 Speaker 1: he borrowed directly from an ad that was running on 1260 01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,840 Speaker 1: television that evening that had been put up by the 1261 01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,640 Speaker 1: Pebble Limited Partnership saying keep politics out of this, and 1262 01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:26,400 Speaker 1: then they flashed to a picture of Barack Obama in 1263 01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:30,760 Speaker 1: a tan suit, which just like Obama didn't like the 1264 01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:35,400 Speaker 1: mind Obama Obama's e p A. You know, I said, 1265 01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,680 Speaker 1: we won't, we won't permit it. I mean Obama went 1266 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,120 Speaker 1: to he went to Dillingham, he went to Bristol bay 1267 01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,720 Speaker 1: Um near the end of his his term. So so 1268 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:50,720 Speaker 1: they're keeping politics out of it, um. But I don't know. 1269 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:52,960 Speaker 1: I read like I read and analyze that tweet, but 1270 01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:54,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what that tweet meant. No, that's the 1271 01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,240 Speaker 1: thing is, no one knows now, right, and for those 1272 01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,880 Speaker 1: of us have been working on it for so long, 1273 01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,160 Speaker 1: and I seeing all these twisting he said, like, don't 1274 01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:05,599 Speaker 1: Alaska is a beautiful place, great place. We'll keep politics 1275 01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,920 Speaker 1: out of it. I guess it depends on who's politics, right. 1276 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,320 Speaker 1: I don't know how I can keep I don't know 1277 01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,879 Speaker 1: how anyone could promise to keep politics? Like what politics 1278 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,519 Speaker 1: is the means by which the public's voices her Like, 1279 01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:20,760 Speaker 1: I don't know when people say that, like keep politics, 1280 01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,439 Speaker 1: it's like it's annoying. Is when people say following the science, Yeah, 1281 01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,360 Speaker 1: I was like, who's hey, who's science. Right. The ones 1282 01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,600 Speaker 1: that say it's a sweet damn are the ones that 1283 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,519 Speaker 1: this greatest damn ever made. We're the ones that say 1284 01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,960 Speaker 1: your damn won't work. It's like like it's like a 1285 01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,080 Speaker 1: non people say that keep politics. It's like a nonstatement. 1286 01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:48,360 Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's empty air. I never understand 1287 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:55,160 Speaker 1: what that means. I know, yep, does that include my 1288 01:13:55,240 --> 01:14:00,400 Speaker 1: opinion in that I vote? Like I don't know? Yeah, 1289 01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,240 Speaker 1: so I didn't know what the hell that man I 1290 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,400 Speaker 1: mean into To your point from earlier, Steve, if you 1291 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,720 Speaker 1: like were to plot out of timeline on this right, 1292 01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,439 Speaker 1: there was the some major moments of the big big 1293 01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:12,720 Speaker 1: minding company pulling out and say it's not worth it. Oh, 1294 01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:14,519 Speaker 1: it looked like it was gone, okay, great, And then 1295 01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,000 Speaker 1: there was the moment when the e p A under 1296 01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,439 Speaker 1: last administration said we're not gonna permit this. Okay, it's done, 1297 01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,760 Speaker 1: and it just it's like the zombie issue, right. And 1298 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,400 Speaker 1: then there was that a couple of weeks ago when 1299 01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,880 Speaker 1: when people like me who got sucked in momentary and thought, oh, 1300 01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,479 Speaker 1: I think we made another No, no, we haven't made 1301 01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,320 Speaker 1: another step forward. We're just stuck in the same limbo. 1302 01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,800 Speaker 1: I thought the watershed moment was when you had a 1303 01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:47,200 Speaker 1: rare circumstance where hippies, Native Alaskans, commercial fish hereman in 1304 01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:53,599 Speaker 1: brown bear guides, I'll agreed on something. Yeah, I was like, dude, 1305 01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,000 Speaker 1: no way, that doesn't happen. Letn't make a bet. I 1306 01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,400 Speaker 1: bet you a thousand dollars. Well that's still going on, right, 1307 01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:01,880 Speaker 1: you know. The opposition is as high as it's ever been. 1308 01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:03,840 Speaker 1: We actually did a poll not that long ago and 1309 01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,320 Speaker 1: on a development issue, and I'll ask a six of 1310 01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:11,920 Speaker 1: the population opposes pebble, and like I don't remember, like 1311 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,839 Speaker 1: a quarter of the population supports it. That never happens, 1312 01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, whether you're talking about drilling for oil and 1313 01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,800 Speaker 1: the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and I don't know where 1314 01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:22,600 Speaker 1: we are, and like logging in the tongas anymore. You know, 1315 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,719 Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of moved more towards opposition 1316 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,519 Speaker 1: than support. But pebble Alaskans don't want pebble. And the 1317 01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,320 Speaker 1: closer you can get to the pebble prospect other than 1318 01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,320 Speaker 1: a couple of small communities that have a huge pebble presence, 1319 01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,040 Speaker 1: they don't want it. Yeah, when you got guys like 1320 01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:39,439 Speaker 1: I would like to have permission to kill any marine 1321 01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,639 Speaker 1: mammal that comes near my salmon. Oh and stop pebble mind. Yeah, 1322 01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:46,920 Speaker 1: Like that's it feels like, you know, to me, feels 1323 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:48,840 Speaker 1: like they'll they'll never be able to do this. I 1324 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,720 Speaker 1: want to shoot sea lions, but I hate pebble. So 1325 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:57,120 Speaker 1: what is there any there's no real death for this, 1326 01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,720 Speaker 1: Like there's no way, like you can't in Yeah, because 1327 01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:05,160 Speaker 1: they tried the state referendum and that didn't work. You 1328 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:09,040 Speaker 1: remember this one. There was a state vote to to 1329 01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,479 Speaker 1: like basically took it to the voters through something that 1330 01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,560 Speaker 1: kind of would have been deathly to pebble. Mind. But 1331 01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,040 Speaker 1: it was too far reaching, right, and it was because 1332 01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,040 Speaker 1: you couldn't get on People couldn't get on board with 1333 01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,519 Speaker 1: it because it was had uncertain implications for the future. 1334 01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,759 Speaker 1: There's two things. So there was a referendum that passed 1335 01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:26,960 Speaker 1: and it passed into every precinct in Alaska, and that 1336 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,400 Speaker 1: was bankrolled by the late Great Bob Gillham, who was 1337 01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:33,200 Speaker 1: the rich guy who actually went to Wharton with Donald Trump. 1338 01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,840 Speaker 1: And it essentially said that the state legislature would have 1339 01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,400 Speaker 1: final say over the permitting of pebble. It if it 1340 01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:42,560 Speaker 1: ever got to the point where they got to the 1341 01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:46,120 Speaker 1: final state permit, then the legislature would have to vote 1342 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:49,160 Speaker 1: up or down on it. Pebble claims that it's unconstitutional, 1343 01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:50,760 Speaker 1: and they said they'll sue it a later date if 1344 01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,920 Speaker 1: need be. But that doesn't stop it because under our 1345 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:58,400 Speaker 1: state constitution, the public can't appropriate land. So you had 1346 01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,639 Speaker 1: to do this like bureaucratic thing. Then there was another 1347 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:05,280 Speaker 1: initiative that would have updated safeguards for you know, development 1348 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,800 Speaker 1: and salmon habitat, and I was a big part of that, 1349 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,120 Speaker 1: and we just got outspent and like ten or twelve 1350 01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:13,760 Speaker 1: and one, and you know, it was it was not 1351 01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,439 Speaker 1: an easy read for the public, and we went down 1352 01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:22,479 Speaker 1: to defeat um. What could happen as the right thing 1353 01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:24,960 Speaker 1: is done through the federal government via the Clean Water Act? 1354 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,760 Speaker 1: Pebble decides to walk away UM and then the state 1355 01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:33,680 Speaker 1: of Alaska does not allow another mining company to come in, 1356 01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:37,519 Speaker 1: and you know, top file on those claims, and then 1357 01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:40,719 Speaker 1: you know, ultimately you would have to get a governor 1358 01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:46,080 Speaker 1: and a legislature and public will and Alaska to say 1359 01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:48,599 Speaker 1: that we're going to take this land and we're gonna 1360 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,160 Speaker 1: put it into a protected status and we could we 1361 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,040 Speaker 1: could do that. Actually that's the way you'd steal the 1362 01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:57,200 Speaker 1: coffin and then you know, probably gonna be another fifteen years. 1363 01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:01,200 Speaker 1: But if that's what it is. X. Yeah. You ever 1364 01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:03,599 Speaker 1: hear this thing called the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge? Yeah, 1365 01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:10,840 Speaker 1: I know, given something a cool name doesn't necessarily no now, 1366 01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,559 Speaker 1: you know. But but you know, I have a lot 1367 01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:16,720 Speaker 1: of friends people have known for a long time worked 1368 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,080 Speaker 1: on that issue. But pebble is different because so many 1369 01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:22,720 Speaker 1: people use it, so many people depend upon it for 1370 01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,640 Speaker 1: their livelihood, and you know, even by Alaska standards, it's 1371 01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:29,120 Speaker 1: not a pedestal, right, very few people are lucky enough 1372 01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:31,360 Speaker 1: to go to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, But a 1373 01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,439 Speaker 1: lot of people go to Bristol Bay, like where I 1374 01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:36,280 Speaker 1: live in Homer, there's a whole fleet, you know, every 1375 01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:40,320 Speaker 1: every June they getting their gill netters and had a 1376 01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:42,880 Speaker 1: cross cooking let and chake the road over to like 1377 01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,000 Speaker 1: Ilama and out the queen Jack to go fish and 1378 01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:48,240 Speaker 1: then see him eight weeks later and tell me how 1379 01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,280 Speaker 1: shit either season was. But they all seem to have 1380 01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:53,240 Speaker 1: nice houses and nice trucks and things like that. So 1381 01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:56,320 Speaker 1: when I made my bet with my sister in law. 1382 01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:04,680 Speaker 1: I also told her that there would be um resistance. 1383 01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:09,640 Speaker 1: There would be what's it called um, you know, like 1384 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:16,200 Speaker 1: like not not vigilanti, but social disobedience. Is that the 1385 01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:21,719 Speaker 1: term that fits The people go out and chain themselves 1386 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,120 Speaker 1: the bulldozers and ship like that. I'm gonna chaine my 1387 01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:31,080 Speaker 1: daughter to something or another landing strip or something. Civil disobedience, 1388 01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:37,559 Speaker 1: civil disobedience. I was like, they're probably civil disobedience because 1389 01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:41,120 Speaker 1: it means so much to people. You know, you gotta 1390 01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:43,080 Speaker 1: handful of people that like, you gotta handle people, They're 1391 01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:44,400 Speaker 1: gonna make them bunch money. But then you got a 1392 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,080 Speaker 1: bunch of people spend a decade, in a decade of 1393 01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:52,120 Speaker 1: a decade's worth of emotion being like you can't just 1394 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,200 Speaker 1: there's some things you can't shut up, Like there's some 1395 01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:00,400 Speaker 1: things that are too precious and beautiful and you just 1396 01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:05,920 Speaker 1: have to be comfortable leaving it. And I feel like 1397 01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,200 Speaker 1: that some people are so impassionate about that that in 1398 01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,599 Speaker 1: the end, when all the legal stuff was done, there'd 1399 01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:19,360 Speaker 1: be like one last push where people got nasty monkey 1400 01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:23,760 Speaker 1: wrench gang. Yeah. I would never advocate for something like that, 1401 01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,840 Speaker 1: but but I'm not saying that you need to advocate for. 1402 01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,720 Speaker 1: You don't need to imagine, you know. I I have 1403 01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,599 Speaker 1: heard you know, people kind of looking at this issue 1404 01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:39,959 Speaker 1: from not you know, the perspective, the narrow, too close perspective, 1405 01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:42,439 Speaker 1: too close to the screen perspective of me saying like, yeah, this, 1406 01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:44,840 Speaker 1: you can see how this if everything went wrong from 1407 01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,840 Speaker 1: the regulatory and legal framework, you know, you could see 1408 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,240 Speaker 1: this being like Keystone XL. You know, where you have 1409 01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:56,320 Speaker 1: people laying down in front of things, and you know, 1410 01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,880 Speaker 1: you start thinking about the people in that region, how 1411 01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:01,639 Speaker 1: long they've been fighting against this thing. They can trace 1412 01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,719 Speaker 1: their history back there ten thousand years, and they really 1413 01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,200 Speaker 1: don't want it. That's what I'm getting at. Man. Yeah, 1414 01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:09,720 Speaker 1: there's that whole concept of social license and the and 1415 01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:12,200 Speaker 1: develop and they know the development industry and mining in particular, 1416 01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,000 Speaker 1: and there's pebble does not have social license. I don't 1417 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,240 Speaker 1: think they'll ever ever get it, no matter how much 1418 01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,000 Speaker 1: money they spend, how much propaganda they put out there, 1419 01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:26,479 Speaker 1: it's just never gonna happen. Where is it gonna sit with? 1420 01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:31,320 Speaker 1: If if let's say old Biden wins, still don't see 1421 01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:37,080 Speaker 1: anybody's find a Biden flag. If Biden wins, I don't 1422 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,400 Speaker 1: imagine it's gonna Pebble is gonna move for four years 1423 01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:44,439 Speaker 1: now he did, he didn't if you know he was 1424 01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:49,400 Speaker 1: elected president, Pebble doesn't move forward. That's four that's four years. Yeah, 1425 01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:51,439 Speaker 1: that doesn't That doesn't kill anything. That just means it 1426 01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,000 Speaker 1: would probably just stall out. Right. Then you get into 1427 01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,560 Speaker 1: future administration, do you think that they would actually like 1428 01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:01,519 Speaker 1: do you think the Biden's team would just be like 1429 01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:05,000 Speaker 1: not cooperative and it would just be quiet, or do 1430 01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:06,679 Speaker 1: you think Biden's team would come in and like try 1431 01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,800 Speaker 1: to like wrap it up. We would, we would, you know, 1432 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,360 Speaker 1: we would try to convince them to do that, to 1433 01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,120 Speaker 1: do some things that would make it extra hard for 1434 01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:18,920 Speaker 1: the next people try to fire. Honestly, you know we're 1435 01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:21,880 Speaker 1: gonna try, and some of our courthorts are gonna try 1436 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:26,439 Speaker 1: no matter who's the president. So but Biden Biden did 1437 01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:31,240 Speaker 1: tweet uh saying that Pebble is a non starter if 1438 01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:34,320 Speaker 1: he's president. I was having a conversation one time with 1439 01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,000 Speaker 1: some people close to the current administration, and I was like, man, 1440 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:44,000 Speaker 1: I don't see, like why not just take a why 1441 01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:48,040 Speaker 1: not just take a conservation win? That is it going 1442 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,840 Speaker 1: to cost you? You guys are gonna lose. You're not 1443 01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:57,200 Speaker 1: gonna lose Alaska. How many how many delicates is Alaska have? Well, 1444 01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:02,000 Speaker 1: we've got one rep. You know, and our or electoral 1445 01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,200 Speaker 1: votes don't matter. Yeah, that's what. Sorry, not delicate, you're 1446 01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,439 Speaker 1: the electoral the electoral college. Like, you're not gonna lose Alaska. 1447 01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,160 Speaker 1: If you did lose Alaska. It's like you're not gonna 1448 01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:13,240 Speaker 1: lose it anyway. They won't lose it, like Trump's I 1449 01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:15,120 Speaker 1: canna lose Alaska if you didn't lose Alaska. It's not 1450 01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:18,360 Speaker 1: that main electoral votes. It's like you're gonna piss off 1451 01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:24,160 Speaker 1: Alaska's governor who's under recall. Recall, Okay, you're gonna off 1452 01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,840 Speaker 1: that got kicked down the road, but you're gonna piss 1453 01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,280 Speaker 1: off their governor, but you're still going to carry the state. 1454 01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:35,240 Speaker 1: It's like, I don't see the mining company isn't even 1455 01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:39,640 Speaker 1: a US company. I don't see why not just like, 1456 01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:45,280 Speaker 1: why not just take the conservation win. Yeah, it's a big, 1457 01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,600 Speaker 1: high profile thing. You can then go and you know 1458 01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,559 Speaker 1: that certainly they'll do all the things. They're gonna piss 1459 01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:52,439 Speaker 1: off hunters and angers in other places, and it's just 1460 01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:55,680 Speaker 1: like part of life. They might even do it. A 1461 01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:57,880 Speaker 1: cynic might be like, oh yeah, they could kill pebble 1462 01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:00,880 Speaker 1: and it'll be it'll provide air cover to be able 1463 01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:04,400 Speaker 1: to do more work in anoir. There's all these like 1464 01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, there's all these like cynical perspectives, but why 1465 01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:11,760 Speaker 1: not just take the wind and and then whatever you 1466 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:13,280 Speaker 1: do down the in the future. You can look and 1467 01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:15,080 Speaker 1: be like, but but we helped you guys out on 1468 01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:17,120 Speaker 1: pebbles to shut up. What was the response that you 1469 01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,840 Speaker 1: got to that they weren't like, okay, we're on it 1470 01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:27,280 Speaker 1: like that. This is a conversation. I agree with you. 1471 01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:31,000 Speaker 1: It seems like just a way to if nothing else, 1472 01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,680 Speaker 1: man just accepted as cover for cover for what you 1473 01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:37,519 Speaker 1: got to do down the road. No one's gonna punish. 1474 01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,920 Speaker 1: No one's gonna punish you. Now, no one's gonna punish you. 1475 01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:43,040 Speaker 1: You know, maybe like the American Mining Association, But they'll 1476 01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:44,760 Speaker 1: get over it. I mean, there's there's all kinds of 1477 01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,400 Speaker 1: talking even in the mining industry that this is you know, 1478 01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,840 Speaker 1: this drags us all down, you know, the optics around it, 1479 01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:54,559 Speaker 1: the human rights issue, the fishery, the economics. It makes 1480 01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:56,680 Speaker 1: us all look bad. Yeah, they'd be like, next time 1481 01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,680 Speaker 1: we do something, just keep your mouth shut, you know, 1482 01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:01,600 Speaker 1: I just keep coming I keep yeah, exactly, I just 1483 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:04,280 Speaker 1: keep coming back to the quality of the environmental impact statement. Right, 1484 01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:09,719 Speaker 1: it's so bad that it's just gonna it's just gonna 1485 01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,479 Speaker 1: make people take a harder look at every other environmental 1486 01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:16,040 Speaker 1: impact statement for every other mind elsewhere in the United States. 1487 01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:17,640 Speaker 1: It's like, is this a new standard? If this is 1488 01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:20,639 Speaker 1: new standard, just gonna be in court forever. And that's 1489 01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,479 Speaker 1: what I just keep trying to, you know, pound away. 1490 01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:25,880 Speaker 1: It's like, this is a the set the size, type, 1491 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:29,519 Speaker 1: and location of pebble, and the diversity of opinion against it, 1492 01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:33,519 Speaker 1: the economic concerns that are you know, pushing you know back, 1493 01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:37,639 Speaker 1: just do the right thing. It's one place you would 1494 01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:41,080 Speaker 1: be an interesting activity in the future would be to 1495 01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,080 Speaker 1: come in and and and take a look at, uh, 1496 01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:49,599 Speaker 1: how how much money was spent on lawyers through this process. 1497 01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:56,840 Speaker 1: Lawyers like that industry has to be like, I don't 1498 01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,640 Speaker 1: care what they decide in the end, but this has 1499 01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,519 Speaker 1: been quite good for us. Yeah, I mean lawyers, uh, 1500 01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,519 Speaker 1: you know, public relations firms advertising things like that. I 1501 01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:07,479 Speaker 1: don't know. I was like an economic it's like like 1502 01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,240 Speaker 1: debating pebble as an economic driver. Yeah, you know it's 1503 01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:12,640 Speaker 1: funny because you hear that. It's like, well, you know 1504 01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:14,840 Speaker 1: you ain't work on this, tim because you know it 1505 01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:18,960 Speaker 1: makes you money, like you can I would get rich, No, 1506 01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:24,639 Speaker 1: I would. I would love if tomorrow do you get 1507 01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:29,360 Speaker 1: four million dollars when they get rejected. I am not 1508 01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,040 Speaker 1: getting a four and a half million dollar nor a 1509 01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,679 Speaker 1: twelve and a half million dollar bonus. It's not happening. 1510 01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:39,160 Speaker 1: I would love to have no other role of playing 1511 01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,760 Speaker 1: this then to go visit some friends and go catch 1512 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:45,960 Speaker 1: some trout. You know, we haven't we haven't talked about 1513 01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:50,479 Speaker 1: what you're like, what what banner you fly under. So 1514 01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,800 Speaker 1: the name of the outfit I am sort of in 1515 01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,800 Speaker 1: control of, in charge of is It's called Salmon State. Um. 1516 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,120 Speaker 1: The the whole idea of we want to make sure 1517 01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:06,800 Speaker 1: that Alaska remains a place where salmon thrive, and you know, 1518 01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:09,960 Speaker 1: Alaska is kind of last remaining salmon state and where 1519 01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:14,519 Speaker 1: we promote laws and policies and and practices at in Sherre. 1520 01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:18,679 Speaker 1: Alaska remains the home of the greatest wild salmon resource 1521 01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:22,000 Speaker 1: on the planet and the source of food and income 1522 01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:26,800 Speaker 1: and culture. For people across the political spectrum. My brother 1523 01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,840 Speaker 1: had a good point. We're talking about we're talking about 1524 01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:32,439 Speaker 1: the conservation movement in the Lower forty eight, and what 1525 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,120 Speaker 1: I was saying to him is I was complaining to 1526 01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:41,679 Speaker 1: him about um Alaskan's and their conservation battles are always 1527 01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:47,600 Speaker 1: coming to the Lower forty eight right through. I was like, 1528 01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,080 Speaker 1: you like people down there and need to hear about 1529 01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:53,559 Speaker 1: this issue we have now, right, but it's a one 1530 01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,760 Speaker 1: way flow. I'm like, how can I never get how 1531 01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:59,439 Speaker 1: can people in Alaska? I never fired up about the 1532 01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:04,040 Speaker 1: conservation asan battles that are being waged down here. Like 1533 01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:11,080 Speaker 1: I know all kinds of people that live in Michigan, Utah, Montana, right, Yeah, 1534 01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:13,519 Speaker 1: and we're fired up about your guys issues. We're fired 1535 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,680 Speaker 1: up about Pebble mind. We'd like to protect Annoir. But 1536 01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:19,679 Speaker 1: I never hear from your sons of bitches on anything 1537 01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:21,759 Speaker 1: we're doing down here. Yeah, I think you know within 1538 01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:24,679 Speaker 1: well with like you know, say like Tongas National Forest 1539 01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,080 Speaker 1: or the Arctic National Wilife Reft future, those are federal lands, 1540 01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,479 Speaker 1: so they're owned by every American, So there's always that 1541 01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, that concept of you know, you're just as 1542 01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:34,919 Speaker 1: important to the debate as somebody who lives in Fairbanks. 1543 01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:38,559 Speaker 1: And that's true. This conversation brought up an observation though 1544 01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:43,439 Speaker 1: that it led to an observation where we were trying 1545 01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:45,160 Speaker 1: to say, like why is it different? And he was 1546 01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:52,280 Speaker 1: saying that conservation in the lower forty eight is a 1547 01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:56,920 Speaker 1: lot about recovery, and it's a lot about land management 1548 01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:04,080 Speaker 1: conservation and um in Alaska is a lot of is 1549 01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:09,640 Speaker 1: more about wildlife management, meaning that they're not trying to 1550 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:14,679 Speaker 1: repair habitat like down here, wh's trying to fix everything? 1551 01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,040 Speaker 1: How do we fix the Columbia River? Right? How do 1552 01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:20,240 Speaker 1: we fix the Meadal Lands in New Jersey? Like? What 1553 01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:23,439 Speaker 1: could ever be? Like it's it's ruined or mostly ruined, 1554 01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:24,880 Speaker 1: Like what could we do to hang on to some 1555 01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:27,479 Speaker 1: vestige and make things a little better. The conversation there 1556 01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:33,880 Speaker 1: is like dude, sitting pretty, things look solid and it's 1557 01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,960 Speaker 1: just kind of like it's a different fight. Yeah, it's different. 1558 01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:42,600 Speaker 1: So it's like holding onto perfect things. Can we just 1559 01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:47,320 Speaker 1: keep the perfect things perfect? It's not like these elaborate 1560 01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:49,559 Speaker 1: plans to try to fix some massive mistake we made 1561 01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:51,960 Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, and those things are really hard 1562 01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,120 Speaker 1: to do and they're really expensive. I mean, that's salmon 1563 01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:55,679 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, right, And that's sort of the premise 1564 01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,360 Speaker 1: for why why we're doing what we're what we're doing 1565 01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:01,519 Speaker 1: at salmon stay it is. You just look at recovery 1566 01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:05,799 Speaker 1: efforts all around the Pacific Northwest and in British Columbia 1567 01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to wild salmon, and they're that's not working, 1568 01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:12,040 Speaker 1: you know what, because it's too it's too complicated. There's 1569 01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,599 Speaker 1: no way like even if you had all the money 1570 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:19,639 Speaker 1: and all the willpower, right, it's still be like it's 1571 01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,400 Speaker 1: there's still like a sort of component to recovering salmon 1572 01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:24,559 Speaker 1: in the Columbia or whatever. There's still like a component 1573 01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:29,280 Speaker 1: of just like brain power and thought that isn't there, 1574 01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,400 Speaker 1: or like engineering that's you know, I mean, it's too hard, 1575 01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,559 Speaker 1: even with all kinds of money. It's hard. There's too 1576 01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:41,200 Speaker 1: many parts to it. Something like pebbly like it's already perfect, 1577 01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:46,559 Speaker 1: it's so easy, just don't ruin it. And I think 1578 01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:49,599 Speaker 1: else you'd be sitting there talking about in a hundred 1579 01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:52,840 Speaker 1: years how we're gonna fix it, and people be like 1580 01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:56,160 Speaker 1: you can't, you know, and lower for you a lot 1581 01:30:56,200 --> 01:31:00,400 Speaker 1: of us, there's still the mythology of Alaska, and I 1582 01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:03,080 Speaker 1: think that there's an investment for for us down here 1583 01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:05,519 Speaker 1: just knowing that it's there right, Like there's there's a 1584 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:08,160 Speaker 1: different relationship that we have with the idea of Alaska 1585 01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:09,800 Speaker 1: and wanted to get there. I know that was the 1586 01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:11,200 Speaker 1: case for me as a kid, having read all the 1587 01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:13,479 Speaker 1: stories that I read in magazine articles and everything else, 1588 01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,519 Speaker 1: like that was the place I wanted to go. That 1589 01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:18,760 Speaker 1: was my goal. And just just the value of knowing 1590 01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:22,799 Speaker 1: that it exists in the form that it does brings 1591 01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:28,519 Speaker 1: I think those of us in lower Ford significant positive feelings. Yeah, 1592 01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:31,559 Speaker 1: I would sign a deal. I would sign a deal 1593 01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:34,360 Speaker 1: if someone said, Okay, we'll kill pebble mine, but here's 1594 01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:37,960 Speaker 1: the deal. You can't step ever again in your life 1595 01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,800 Speaker 1: within two hundred miles of the epicenter of that mine 1596 01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:47,160 Speaker 1: or anything that that water flows into, or any of 1597 01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:51,760 Speaker 1: the streams. You can't go there. Okay, that's fine, I 1598 01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:56,840 Speaker 1: signed that. Be bummed about it, but I'd take that deal. 1599 01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:58,600 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not like I need to, you know, 1600 01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:01,680 Speaker 1: like never go back again, but I know it it 1601 01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:06,519 Speaker 1: stays protected. Yeah, that's cool. I'd even sign away with 1602 01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:12,920 Speaker 1: my kids ability to go children. Yeah, no, seriously, not 1603 01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:16,559 Speaker 1: only your children and your children's children cannot fish those rivers, 1604 01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,040 Speaker 1: you know. But that's the thing about that pebble is 1605 01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:23,080 Speaker 1: a little bit different than say the Arctic National Wilife 1606 01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:25,640 Speaker 1: Refuge we were talking about. You know, that is like 1607 01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:28,240 Speaker 1: that is out there and you're either going to develop 1608 01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:31,200 Speaker 1: it or it's just gonna be left alone for caribou 1609 01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,960 Speaker 1: and mosquitoes and a few intrepid people, right. I mean, 1610 01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:37,920 Speaker 1: Bristol Bay is highly utilized. It just works. You know, 1611 01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:40,080 Speaker 1: you have tens of thousands of people make their make 1612 01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:42,640 Speaker 1: their living off that resource, and it's proven that it's 1613 01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,519 Speaker 1: sustainable and it's renewable. So it's been that weird. It's 1614 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:47,360 Speaker 1: a good it's a good distinction. Yeah. I don't think 1615 01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:49,080 Speaker 1: you trying on't think you're trying to sell I don't 1616 01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:50,840 Speaker 1: think you're trying to sell anwar short. But it's a 1617 01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:53,200 Speaker 1: reason distinction definitely not. I'm you know, it's not like 1618 01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:59,439 Speaker 1: it's not elitist. Yeah, yeah, whether it's it's not a museum. 1619 01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,519 Speaker 1: You know, it's not a park. I mean there are parks, 1620 01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:05,400 Speaker 1: but those get heavily heal well by the lodges. You know, 1621 01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:09,000 Speaker 1: it's a place that works. It shows that there's actually 1622 01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:12,680 Speaker 1: something between. You can't go there at all and you 1623 01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,080 Speaker 1: have to destroy it. That there's something in between. And 1624 01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:18,360 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of what you know, your stuff 1625 01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:20,920 Speaker 1: is all about, right, I mean, getting out there and 1626 01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:24,120 Speaker 1: doing things. Just don't ruin it. That's why I well that. 1627 01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,200 Speaker 1: You know, I came to Alaska and worked in on 1628 01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:30,439 Speaker 1: a same boat and in a canary, and yeah it 1629 01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:34,040 Speaker 1: was miserable, Um, but I just was captivated, you know, 1630 01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:36,120 Speaker 1: I just like I gotta go back because of what 1631 01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,560 Speaker 1: it represented. You know, lived I lived in southeast for 1632 01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:41,600 Speaker 1: a long time and you worked on a canary and 1633 01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:50,000 Speaker 1: catch I got all my fingers. You must not stayed long. Yeah, 1634 01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:52,320 Speaker 1: so but you know, that whole idea of just being 1635 01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,280 Speaker 1: able to, you know, go out and all these public 1636 01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:58,720 Speaker 1: lands and essentially do whatever you want except screw it up. No, 1637 01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:01,400 Speaker 1: it's amazing how how well it works and how heavily 1638 01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:03,400 Speaker 1: it's utilized like that. That is still mind blow. And 1639 01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean you think talking about the number of salmon 1640 01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:06,320 Speaker 1: that are taking out of that system and it's still 1641 01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,479 Speaker 1: self perpetuating the number of lodges and boats and planes. 1642 01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:11,120 Speaker 1: You know, you feel like you're out in the middle 1643 01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:12,920 Speaker 1: of nowhere, but when you're on those rivers, you're not 1644 01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:16,760 Speaker 1: by yourself. They're people fishing all around you. And yet 1645 01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:20,720 Speaker 1: it's still maintains that character of wilderness incredibly well. It's 1646 01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:24,040 Speaker 1: it's like a really resilient space too, as long as 1647 01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:27,720 Speaker 1: you don't do anything overtly terrible. Those fish keep coming back, 1648 01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:29,800 Speaker 1: those nutrients work, the bears are there, the motion there, 1649 01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:33,760 Speaker 1: it's holding on. It's a good point I had considered. Man, 1650 01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:36,920 Speaker 1: I think there are are there, There are those places, 1651 01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:42,760 Speaker 1: but it's a working landscape. Yeah, myle is good. I 1652 01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:45,679 Speaker 1: have one other one that maybe maybe if it's does 1653 01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,400 Speaker 1: my own personal desire, And I know you're not a 1654 01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:52,120 Speaker 1: saki expert, but maybe you have the answers. Maybe you don't. 1655 01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:54,120 Speaker 1: I was told when I was working up there, and 1656 01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:56,759 Speaker 1: I took this as gospel without digging into it. Soak 1657 01:34:56,840 --> 01:35:01,280 Speaker 1: I only reproducing systems with lakes correct pretty much? Yeah? Yeah? 1658 01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:05,440 Speaker 1: Is it true that they are therefore like micro invertebrate 1659 01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:09,360 Speaker 1: feeders only and they do not eat other fish or 1660 01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:13,080 Speaker 1: creatures as far as I know, they do not. Okay, 1661 01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:15,519 Speaker 1: but you're not you're not coming out as like the 1662 01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:19,880 Speaker 1: solid definitive expert on this because I I know it's 1663 01:35:19,880 --> 01:35:21,960 Speaker 1: a weird thing too, but yeah, my brow would be 1664 01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:25,679 Speaker 1: on asked that one. But the other day we're floating 1665 01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,720 Speaker 1: the river up there and and uh, they were well 1666 01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:33,439 Speaker 1: colored fish, but my god, they just aggressively chased down 1667 01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:37,040 Speaker 1: spoons and spinners. Only when they're there though, Like, so, 1668 01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:39,559 Speaker 1: here's the thing, and that's why I hated guiding for them, 1669 01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:41,200 Speaker 1: because you wanted to get them when they're fresh, and 1670 01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:43,760 Speaker 1: they don't unlike the other species of Pacific salm, and 1671 01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:46,840 Speaker 1: they do not attack generally you're offerings. They just swim 1672 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:51,280 Speaker 1: right by it. So ninety soccer that you catch the 1673 01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:53,479 Speaker 1: air fresh. If you're doing on Roden reel, you're snagging 1674 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,160 Speaker 1: them in the face. You're just floss them, right. And 1675 01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:58,400 Speaker 1: I was always told that the reason they don't attack 1676 01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:01,160 Speaker 1: lures or spinners, are flies or anything is because they're 1677 01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:04,519 Speaker 1: not accustomed hunting down prey like krill and like like 1678 01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,960 Speaker 1: feel like open mouth feeding through. Yeah, exactly, that was 1679 01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:11,920 Speaker 1: my understanding. The old played out, half spawned out fish weird. 1680 01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:15,479 Speaker 1: They're like pissed, yeah, like a big angry male. Yeah. Yeah, 1681 01:36:15,479 --> 01:36:18,519 Speaker 1: you catch predominantly mails, but man, they're pissed. Yeah, defending 1682 01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:22,439 Speaker 1: the spawning reds. Let's put Yeah, we got some some 1683 01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:23,960 Speaker 1: of the guys that we work, some of our crew 1684 01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:26,639 Speaker 1: guys that just can't fish. It's like, now a chance 1685 01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:29,639 Speaker 1: to shine. There you go, I bet you catch one 1686 01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:32,760 Speaker 1: one of these guys. He caught five. And when he 1687 01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:35,160 Speaker 1: cast Johnny that the he'd cast and his cast and 1688 01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:38,679 Speaker 1: he goes like far overhead and kind on his toes. 1689 01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:41,040 Speaker 1: I was like, well, like, I understand what you're doing. 1690 01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:43,920 Speaker 1: But he casting, like point the rod skyword. The thing 1691 01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:45,280 Speaker 1: is to sort of go up and kind of land 1692 01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:47,600 Speaker 1: by his feet. But the sock had swim over and 1693 01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:49,840 Speaker 1: grab It doesn't matter where you put it, they're gonna 1694 01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,599 Speaker 1: find it. It's like, dude, it's your time. He wanted 1695 01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:56,160 Speaker 1: a picture to show his kids. They're cool looking fish 1696 01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:58,719 Speaker 1: when they get a colored pretty cool. They're real pretty 1697 01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:02,439 Speaker 1: all right. Well that I'm kind of exactly ended that 1698 01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:04,400 Speaker 1: where I started thinking that was the case. But I'd 1699 01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:07,040 Speaker 1: love to like get definitive answer if I was. If 1700 01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:11,040 Speaker 1: I'm right about what I'll find out it's in Thanks 1701 01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:13,680 Speaker 1: for making the trip down. Yeah, it's my pleasure to 1702 01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:18,920 Speaker 1: go back where you came from. Now appreciate it. Yeah, yes, 1703 01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:22,519 Speaker 1: keep slugging away, man, we will. Well, we should ask 1704 01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:25,040 Speaker 1: a question, what can people do if they if they're 1705 01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:28,840 Speaker 1: interested in help and continue to stop the I got 1706 01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:30,920 Speaker 1: two more questions though. For that one, do you get 1707 01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:33,000 Speaker 1: death threats and stuff like that? I haven't in a 1708 01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:37,439 Speaker 1: long time, you know. I think I think other people have, 1709 01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, taken on leadership roles and I'm kind of 1710 01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:42,640 Speaker 1: kind of faded into the background a little bit. So 1711 01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,840 Speaker 1: that's that's nice. You know, Like like a Lana who 1712 01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:47,760 Speaker 1: would have been great to get down here, she just can't, 1713 01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:49,879 Speaker 1: you know, with with everything going on in her community. 1714 01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:52,479 Speaker 1: But you know she's She's people are in her face 1715 01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:55,200 Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, the people in like those communities, 1716 01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:58,559 Speaker 1: the askanted people in those communities there, they're super tough 1717 01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:02,519 Speaker 1: and really brave. Um. But you know, we've all had 1718 01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:06,120 Speaker 1: our moments where we've been harassed by the by the 1719 01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:12,080 Speaker 1: powers that be. Yeah, and then for Yanni's question, right now, 1720 01:38:12,160 --> 01:38:14,360 Speaker 1: it's just sit and wait or is the stuff people 1721 01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:16,639 Speaker 1: should be doing? Well? You know, you can always weigh 1722 01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:18,760 Speaker 1: in with your elected officials, right you know, because I 1723 01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:21,439 Speaker 1: think there could be a congressional play at some point 1724 01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:23,519 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's been talk of well, the House 1725 01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:27,880 Speaker 1: of Representatives actually passed a spending bill Jared Huffman out 1726 01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:32,200 Speaker 1: of California that no money can be spent on the 1727 01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:37,479 Speaker 1: processing of the Pebble Project Environmental impact statement in fiscal year, 1728 01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:40,960 Speaker 1: and the Senate will take up a you know, a 1729 01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:44,120 Speaker 1: companion spending bill and then they'll do some sausage making 1730 01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:47,640 Speaker 1: in theory before the years out and you know, right 1731 01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:50,439 Speaker 1: into the right and your senators asking them to, you know, 1732 01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:53,240 Speaker 1: support efforts not to fund the e I S. Look, 1733 01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,000 Speaker 1: no matter where you are on the issue, you know, 1734 01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:57,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot of debate out there about the quality 1735 01:38:57,920 --> 01:38:59,519 Speaker 1: of this thing. And maybe we just take a time 1736 01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:01,560 Speaker 1: out for you. So that's one thing you could do 1737 01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:05,280 Speaker 1: in the the immediate term. And then and then we've 1738 01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:07,320 Speaker 1: got a we've got a website that's a consortium of 1739 01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:09,599 Speaker 1: a lot of different groups now stop Pebble mind now 1740 01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,200 Speaker 1: dot org and uh, it's got a ton of good 1741 01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:15,639 Speaker 1: information and the way she can win in I'm working 1742 01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:25,840 Speaker 1: on a philosophy, a political philosophy. It's called environmental nationalism. Um. 1743 01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,680 Speaker 1: Part of this would be this, if it really is 1744 01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:35,160 Speaker 1: the biggest pile of gold in the world. Isn't it 1745 01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:37,439 Speaker 1: sweet that we own it and it's just sitting there 1746 01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:42,920 Speaker 1: and waiting for us. Right, let everybody else copper, Let 1747 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:47,160 Speaker 1: everybody else screw their area. It's not going anywhere. It's 1748 01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:52,040 Speaker 1: been there for millions of years, maybe billions of years. Um, 1749 01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:56,000 Speaker 1: just leave it there. It's not like is that like 1750 01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,400 Speaker 1: strike now or we'll never be able to get it. Well, 1751 01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:01,320 Speaker 1: that's a real It comes down to something where like 1752 01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:06,920 Speaker 1: America will end, Like America will end, will all die, 1753 01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:12,320 Speaker 1: and the American dream will be over, the American experiment 1754 01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:17,360 Speaker 1: will collapse if we can't get some gold there. It is, Yeah, 1755 01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:20,120 Speaker 1: and there's nothing to say that in fifty year, a 1756 01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:23,760 Speaker 1: hundred years we won't have the mining technology to take 1757 01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:28,640 Speaker 1: it out of there without scarring the surface and possibly 1758 01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:33,040 Speaker 1: killing Yeah, probably not the crazy witch and rod and 1759 01:40:33,240 --> 01:40:36,640 Speaker 1: just I mean that's the problem with right. There's a 1760 01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:38,439 Speaker 1: lot of it there, but it's low grade. It's a 1761 01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:41,640 Speaker 1: huge excavation. You're saying that we're not smart enough to 1762 01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:45,400 Speaker 1: eventually figure out how to get it out. I'm hoping 1763 01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:47,320 Speaker 1: that we're smart enough that we realize we don't really 1764 01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:49,960 Speaker 1: need gold for anything, you know, like the majority of 1765 01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,360 Speaker 1: it goes to jewelry at Walmart and to dowries and 1766 01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:55,479 Speaker 1: you know, for like marriages and other cultures and countries. 1767 01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:58,080 Speaker 1: It's not like it's not like it's a critical mineral copper. 1768 01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:00,559 Speaker 1: It's a totally different story. But who knows what we'll 1769 01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:02,400 Speaker 1: figure out as far as renewables go in the future 1770 01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:05,479 Speaker 1: and as far as there's some rare earth minerals there too, right, 1771 01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:06,960 Speaker 1: and they talk about that and we're gonna need that 1772 01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:11,760 Speaker 1: for the for the renewable economy. Um. But you know, 1773 01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:13,920 Speaker 1: the thing that always stops these guys dead in their tracks, 1774 01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:16,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of just the exact opposite of that. It's like, okay, 1775 01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:18,240 Speaker 1: well this is in the national interest because you know, 1776 01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:20,280 Speaker 1: the Chinese have all these rare earth minerals. Are you 1777 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:23,320 Speaker 1: telling me you're never gonna sell any of the material 1778 01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:25,800 Speaker 1: that comes out of pebble on the international market? And 1779 01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:28,240 Speaker 1: that just stops the conversation right there. It's just like oil. 1780 01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:31,360 Speaker 1: You know, there is no there is no like national 1781 01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:33,880 Speaker 1: market for oil. It's it's all traded on the on 1782 01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:38,400 Speaker 1: the global market. That's how commodities work. Yeah, but I 1783 01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:39,840 Speaker 1: like that, you know, and I've heard that from a 1784 01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:42,320 Speaker 1: lot of people. It's like, why wouldn't we just you know, 1785 01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:44,599 Speaker 1: invest against the fact that we actually have this resource 1786 01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:46,800 Speaker 1: in the ground, you know, to speculate on it. It's 1787 01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:49,040 Speaker 1: a different kind of speculation, but it's one that you 1788 01:41:49,120 --> 01:41:50,400 Speaker 1: have to get. You have your cake and eat it too. 1789 01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:51,800 Speaker 1: You have a wild salmon run and you get to, 1790 01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, do weird ship with the stock market that 1791 01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:58,800 Speaker 1: most people don't understand. When I first one on a 1792 01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:01,400 Speaker 1: date with my wife, I bet my body hunter Bucks 1793 01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:05,519 Speaker 1: that I'd end up marriing her after our first date, 1794 01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:07,920 Speaker 1: and he's like bullshit. We bet a hundred dollars and 1795 01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:10,160 Speaker 1: I had two years to do it, and he sent 1796 01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:12,800 Speaker 1: me my hunter Bocks. And we also wrote our beat 1797 01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:16,240 Speaker 1: up in a little contract when we were drinking, and 1798 01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:20,000 Speaker 1: so I framed the hunter Bucks in the contract. Right, 1799 01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:23,479 Speaker 1: It's not lost on me that there could be a 1800 01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:28,360 Speaker 1: situation in which I would bust that glass and get 1801 01:42:28,439 --> 01:42:33,080 Speaker 1: that hunter Bucks out. It would take a lot. We're 1802 01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,759 Speaker 1: not there yet. We haven't been there in the last 1803 01:42:36,120 --> 01:42:39,519 Speaker 1: ten years. Is there a way in which, some way 1804 01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:42,639 Speaker 1: I would break the glass and get the hunter Bucks out? 1805 01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:46,400 Speaker 1: No rivers so long that is not a bend, right, Like, 1806 01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, but right now I like it where 1807 01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:52,080 Speaker 1: it is. I don't want to break the glass people, 1808 01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:54,439 Speaker 1: and that's the thing and they all depend on it 1809 01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:59,320 Speaker 1: hopefully never. But I'm just saying, think about it's like 1810 01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:01,840 Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere. There's not like a thing where 1811 01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:05,320 Speaker 1: like it's like if you is that, like, get it 1812 01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:10,600 Speaker 1: now where it's gone. We can afford not to. Like 1813 01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:13,600 Speaker 1: we're rich enough and lucky enough as a country. I 1814 01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:15,360 Speaker 1: won't say rich and lucky because it might be like 1815 01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:19,479 Speaker 1: we're fortunate enough and we've done enough things right as 1816 01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:23,960 Speaker 1: a country that we can have pristine places. It is 1817 01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:28,160 Speaker 1: a tremendous not a look, not like a luxury like 1818 01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,400 Speaker 1: we just fell onto it. We've people have done things, 1819 01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:35,160 Speaker 1: We have made sacrifices to have places that we can 1820 01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:39,680 Speaker 1: afford to leave and and have cities and have a 1821 01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:42,880 Speaker 1: great economy and do all this and have perfect places, 1822 01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:49,080 Speaker 1: perfect places like like God put them there. So we 1823 01:43:49,120 --> 01:43:52,400 Speaker 1: should be jumping up and down with joy. We can 1824 01:43:52,479 --> 01:43:55,080 Speaker 1: pull it off. We can have a hundred bucks in 1825 01:43:55,120 --> 01:43:57,320 Speaker 1: a picture frame hanging on our wall. Well, I'm I'm 1826 01:43:57,439 --> 01:43:58,920 Speaker 1: gonna work really hard to make sure you get your 1827 01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:01,400 Speaker 1: thousand bucks. Please. Other I want you to be two 1828 01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:07,240 Speaker 1: for two. You have a frame up, tenadent. I'm not 1829 01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:09,920 Speaker 1: framing this thousand man. This thouse is going into the 1830 01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:14,599 Speaker 1: family pile. But thank you, all right, thanks for coming down, man, 1831 01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:20,320 Speaker 1: my pleasure. Good luck. Thanks, you know, not for your 1832 01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:23,400 Speaker 1: own sake, but for our good, for everybody. It's like 1833 01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:25,160 Speaker 1: when I say a good luck to someone in Star Wars, 1834 01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:29,560 Speaker 1: right for the Force, that's right, all right, thank you, 1835 01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:30,600 Speaker 1: thank you,