1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: for joining me for session four thirty one of the 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 13 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors. This week, we're 14 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: diving into a conversation about personality disorders with psychiatrists doctor 15 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Tracy Marx. Doctor Marx breaks down what personality disorders are, 16 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: how they differ from other mental health conditions, and some 17 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: of the common misconceptions people have about them. We also 18 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: talk about how personality disorders can impact relationships, what treatment 19 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: can look like in ways to show compassion for yourself 20 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: or a loved one who may be navigating one. If 21 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share 22 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag tpg in session, 23 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: or join us over in our patreons and talk more 24 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: about the episode. You can join us at community dot 25 00:01:53,160 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you 26 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, doctor Wax. 27 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: Thanks for inviting me on. 28 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: So I would love for you to stop by telling 29 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: us a little bit about your journey into psychiatry. What 30 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: made you pick that specialty. 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: It's actually a little bit of an indirect route into psychiatry. 32 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: So I was initially interested in becoming an internal medicine doctor. Actually, 33 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: in college, I was interested in being an engineer, electrical engineer. 34 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: And this is so immature of me, but I don't 35 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: want to be a doctor because I'm like, they wear 36 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: white coats, that's boring. Who wants to do that? So 37 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 2: I did engineering, but then I started having second doubts 38 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: and decided after I graduated, to then go to medical 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: school because I really did want to help people. So 40 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: in medical school, though I grew up in the South, 41 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: we're both in the South, well in Atlanta, but I 42 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: grew up in Florida and in my environment, I had 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: never talk to anyone who'd ever been to a psychiatrist before, 44 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: and really didn't see the value of it, the need 45 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: for it, So it just was not even on my 46 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: radar going into medical school, And in fact, I deferred 47 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 2: the rotations. In medical school in your third year, there's 48 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: all these required rotations that you have to do, with 49 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: the basic specialty psychiatry being one of them. You're allowed 50 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: to defer one for your fourth year. So I deferred 51 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: psychiatry so that I could do research in internal medicine, 52 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: which is what I was interested in. You know, looks 53 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: good for your applications to do research. Then in my 54 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: fourth year, when I got around to doing my psychiatry rotations, 55 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: I was already in the thick of applying for residency 56 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: in internal medicine, and I did the psychiatry rotation just 57 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: to kind of get it out of the way, and 58 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: I was super surprised at how interesting it was and 59 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: how much satisfaction I got out of helping people with 60 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: their emotional pain over tweaking someone's blood pressure medications. But 61 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: I was too far down the road of applying for residency, 62 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: which is kind of like a draft process. They call 63 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,839 Speaker 2: it the match, but you pick where you want to go, 64 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: places pick you and then you just get assigned somewhere. 65 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: So I was too deep into that, So I matched 66 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: an internal medicine and I changed after the match the 67 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: place where I matched it in New York, a psychiatry 68 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: resident couldn't start because of an illness in the family, 69 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: so they had an open spot, so they just switched 70 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: me from one roster to the next, and so I 71 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: was able to then start in psychiatry. 72 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: Wow, and it is almost as if this is where 73 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: you were meant to be. It sounds like it really was. 74 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: It really was where I meant to be. I mean, 75 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: I've always been one who, probably to my detriment, have 76 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: a little too much empathy. Sometimes I'm one of those 77 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: people who feels for people and things like that. And 78 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: I've known that about my myself, but still didn't equate 79 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: that too. I need to be a psychiatrist. But my 80 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: mom said something that was very enlightening to me. She said, 81 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: I was telling her about this guy who looked in retrospect. 82 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: He was probably on the spectrum, but you know, he 83 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: was socially awkward in things and I was talking about 84 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: how he needed a friend, and my mom was like, 85 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 2: you need to leave these people with problems alone. They 86 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: need professional help, they don't need friends, which sounds very harsh, 87 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: but she was right in the sense of what I 88 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: was tapping into is my desire to want to help 89 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: people professionally. 90 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that. And you have 91 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: done so many different things in your career, but most 92 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: recently you are doing a lot of mental health YouTube 93 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: videos about psychiatry and mental health concerns. What led you 94 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 1: down that specific career path. 95 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 2: I started my own private practice in two thousand and six, 96 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: and what I noticed was I had been a part 97 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: of someone else's practice before that after residency, but when 98 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: I was kind of seeing my own patients and whatnot, 99 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: I would I spent so much time teaching them things, 100 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: And I thought, well, if they don't know these things, 101 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: how many other people don't know these things. And also 102 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: I was trained to do therapy as well, not just 103 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: prescribe medications, so I found that the kind of teaching 104 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 2: them about their disorders took up too much time from 105 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: talking about the real stuff, if you will, of their lives. 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: And so the initially it was about creating a library 107 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: of information that I could refer my patients to. Hey, 108 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: you know you want to know more about this, go 109 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: look at this. But then I thought, well, but there's 110 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: so many other people who could benefit from this. So 111 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: it became about educating the world, if you will, more 112 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: people than just the people I could see in my 113 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: practice about basic mental health things. 114 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: And what has been the balance in terms of you 115 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: doing the videos on YouTube and yourtice. Are you still practicing? 116 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: I am still practicing. 117 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: Okay. I have patients who I think fear that I'm 118 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: going to let them go, and I mean there's some 119 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: of them I've been seeing for twenty years, so it's 120 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: a relationship. At this point, I can't just let go 121 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: of them. But I've stopped taking new patients, so I'm 122 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: still managing. It's still a lot of patients. It doesn't 123 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: take up my whole week anymore. I get lots of 124 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: inquiries about can you just one more patient, one more 125 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: can you just take me? And the answer to that is, well, 126 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: if I did, it would be goodbye YouTube, because you know, 127 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: I really wouldn't have time to do anything else other 128 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: than see patients all day long, and at this stage, 129 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: of my career. I want to do more than that, 130 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: even though I still love seeing my patients, but I 131 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: just want more. 132 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: So you talked about a variety of different things on 133 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: your channel, but one thing that we're going to talk 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: more about today are personality disorder is so I think 135 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: that you know the big ones that it feels like 136 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: get a lot of attention, or borderline personality disorder and 137 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: narcissistic personality disorder, but we know that there are lots 138 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: of other personality disorders. Can you talk about like personality 139 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: disorders as like a sit of diagnoses and what does 140 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: it mean to have a personality disorder? 141 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: Sure? So, yes, there are so many more personality disorders 142 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: I think you know, maybe like ten I think is 143 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: the number in total. And they're grouped into clusters. So 144 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: there's the dramatic or erratic cluster, and that would be 145 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: the ones that we hear most about, narcissistic personality disorder, 146 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: borderline personality disorder, and then antisocial personality disorder fits into that. 147 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: Then there's odd eccentric and that would be skeezoid, skeizotypal, 148 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: and paranoid. And then the third category would be anxious 149 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: or fearful, and that would be avoidant personality disorder dependent 150 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: and obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which is different from obsessive 151 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: compulsive disorder. So the thing about personality disorders is I 152 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: think this is kind of one thing that's generally misunderstood 153 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: and the proliferation of information online about personality disorders, and 154 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: that is we all have personality traits, but we don't 155 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: all have disorders. So when you look at the Diagnostic 156 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: and Statistical Manual of mental disorders and look at the 157 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: criteria for the various disorders, anyone can have any of 158 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: those single traits. So let's say, let's say with borderline 159 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: personality disorder, if one of them is difficulty with your 160 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: self identity or you know, emotional dysregulation, anyone can have those, 161 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to mean you have that disorder. 162 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 2: So with the disorders, you have a collection of the 163 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 2: traits that also cause dysfunction or problems in all aspects 164 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: of your life, relationships, your work, and it may even 165 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: affect you personally as well. So there's a threshold of 166 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: these traits that pile on that then cause problems for you. 167 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: One of the problems, unfortunately with personality disorders is that 168 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: often people don't have enough self awareness to see themselves 169 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 2: as having a disorder. There's a tendency to do what 170 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: we call externalized blame, so you see the problem as 171 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 2: your environment other people, and it's not you. You probably 172 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: can't just diagnose yourself with a personality disorder. And in fact, 173 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: there's another thing, a little pet peeve I have about 174 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: hearing things online and then wanting to diagnose other people 175 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 2: as being a certain disorder. We learned in my training 176 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: when that we usually don't diagnose a personality disorder with 177 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: the first evaluation because you're looking for longitudinal information, which 178 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: is information that stretches a span of time. So how 179 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: are you acting or what was going on in your 180 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: late childhood and in adulthood, you know, over years, and 181 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 2: not just this kind of one slice in time as 182 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: far as how do you have a personality or how 183 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 2: it develops. Going back to this kind of diagnostic question here, 184 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: there's no one thing that causes personality disorders. It's a 185 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: combination of the classic terminology that people will say nature 186 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: versus nurture. So the nature part would be what you 187 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 2: come into this world with genetics, your temperament. And then 188 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: nurture would be your environment and the effect it had 189 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: on you. So early experiences, how well you bonded in 190 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: attached growing up, or as you were being raised as 191 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: a child, any trauma experiences, like all of those things 192 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: can intervene and lead you down the road of a 193 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: disordered personality, because we all have personality. And then last 194 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: bit about personality disorders and how they come about when 195 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 2: they develop, They typically show themselves in late adolescence to 196 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: early adulthood. That's when things start coming together enough to 197 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: be able to see is this someone with a personality 198 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: disorder or just various aspects of different personality traits. 199 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: So, doctor Marks, would you say that a personality disorder 200 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: is something that could develop after like one singular traumatic 201 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: event or is it typically like a longer standing pattern 202 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: of behavior and circumstances that would lead to a personality disorder. 203 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 2: That's such a perfect second part of that question. It's 204 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 2: the latter. It's not just one hit and then now 205 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: you're impaired for life with this personality disorder. It's a 206 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: series of things and experiences and reactions that you have 207 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: that come together to form to result in a personality disorder. Again, 208 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: I keep emphasizing that disordered part, because we all have personalities. 209 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 2: The presence of aspects of different personalities does not mean 210 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 2: you are disordered, and disordered equals pathology, So not everything 211 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: is pathology. That said, with something like complex PTSD versus 212 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: regular PTSD, if you will, is first of all, complex 213 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: PTSD is a construct. It's not a diagnosis or official 214 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 2: diagnosis like PTSD. But complex PTSD is thought to develop 215 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: from multiple traumatic events like hits. No, not necessarily little, 216 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: but thousand stabs over time that start in your younger 217 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: developmental years, such that the experience itself and your reaction 218 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: to it infuses itself into your personality makeup, therefore potentially 219 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: leading to a personality or a disordered personality as you 220 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: get older. 221 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: And what would you say You've already kind of talked 222 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: about like one of the hallmark characteristics of personality disorders, 223 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: is this like lack of insight and ability to see 224 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: yourself maybe as others do. Can you talk about why 225 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: that is kind of a homework of this cluster of disorders? 226 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: Sure? So, okay, I get a little bit heavy here 227 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: with the kind of ego psychology Here a minute, I'm sure, 228 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: you're fine with this, but I just want to we're 229 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: in the audience a minute. So there's a concept called 230 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: something that is ego sentonic, is ego dystonic. Ego syenttonic 231 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: would be something or things that go along with how 232 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: you see yourself, how you feel, how you view yourself, 233 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: such that you don't see it as a problem. Ego 234 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: dystonic would be something or behaviors or experiences that are 235 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: go against how you see yourself. So an example of 236 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: this would be the psychiatric disorders like depression and anxiety. 237 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: The experiences that you have are different from how you 238 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: see yourself. You know you have a problem because you 239 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: are different versus with personalities tend to be ego sentonic. 240 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: You don't see that you have a problem because it's 241 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: built in to your nature or it's built into how 242 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: you view the world. So for you, this is how 243 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: things should be, and other people who don't like it, 244 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: they're the ones with a problem. So another way to 245 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: phrase that or to see that is having lack of 246 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: insight that you don't see that you have a problem. 247 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: And one of the results of this or what can 248 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: happen is that often people with personality disorders don't come 249 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 2: to treatment because of their personality disorder. They come to 250 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: treatment either because they have something else like depression, anxiety, 251 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: something that's ego dystonic that's causing problems for them that 252 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: they see as a problem. Or they come because a 253 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: partner says, you either do this or I'm gone. But 254 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: they normally don't just kind of walk into therapy saying 255 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 2: I've got histrionic personality disorder and I want you to 256 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: help me with that. It takes a lot of self awareness, 257 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: and chances are if they did say that, they've already 258 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: had therapy to see that that's what their problem is. 259 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: And I know this is different across disorders, different probably 260 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: across the clusters. Well, what does treatment planning in a 261 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: treatment process typically look like to help somebody who does 262 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: have a personality disorder? 263 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 2: Yes, so I know that at this point there are 264 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 2: lots of different therapy modalities, many of which I'm not 265 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 2: familiar with. When I trained, I trained in New York City, 266 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: it was very psychoanalytical. A lot of my supervisor were analysts, 267 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: and so it was very heavy into psychoanalysis and psychodynamic psychotherapy. 268 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: So the approach to personality disorders was helping someone have insight, 269 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 2: and that is my orientation when trying to help someone 270 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: with this. That's not necessarily analysis, by the way, but 271 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: just kind of insight oriented psychotherapy, and the approach with 272 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 2: that would be from a high level view, would be 273 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: helping someone see what they don't see, so we all 274 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: have blind spots and seeing patterns and trying to understand 275 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: why you have certain reactions. Take an extreme example, if 276 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: I believe that people who are stupid deserve to be 277 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 2: punished or deserve to be criticized because they're stupid, Okay, 278 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 2: I can live believing that, But if I go out 279 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: into the world and have a job or have relationships 280 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: somewhere along the line, there's going to be a big 281 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: old rub with me with that bad attitude. But I 282 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: don't see it as a bad attitude. I just see 283 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: it as it just makes sense. If I had a 284 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: patient who believed that, I would try and help them 285 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 2: see how that belief causes problems for the people that 286 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: they're around, as well as for themselves. Because in that scenario, 287 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: if I'm the person who believes that, I may not 288 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 2: care that other people are insulted, there has to be 289 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: something in it for me to feel like I need 290 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: to change because of that. So what could that be? 291 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 2: That could be mean not getting not seeming to get 292 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: promoted and I can't understand why, or never being made 293 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 2: a manager, or my partner being mad at me all 294 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: the time, like why. So I, as a therapist would 295 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 2: help try and bring those examples in and then try 296 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 2: and help deconstruct what causes people to have these kinds 297 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 2: of reactions. Oh, what do you know? It's because this 298 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: is what you think, helping them try and discover their 299 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 2: flawed thinking. Essentially, there are other approaches. There's things like 300 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 2: schem of therapy, and you know, there's lots of different 301 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 2: therapies today. I mean I trained, I finished training in 302 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 2: two thousand and one. There's lots of therapies that came 303 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: out since the two thousands that also can address personality disorders. 304 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 2: But I will say no, I think my bias is 305 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 2: no matter what the modality, it still takes time and 306 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: patience and a lot of investment that some people aren't 307 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 2: willing to make or just can't make money wise, But 308 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: it's not something that changes overnight. Dialectical behavior therapy that's 309 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 2: another therapy that was designed originally for borderline personality disorder, 310 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 2: but it can also help with coping skills and things 311 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: like that for other people as well. So that's more 312 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 2: of a cognitive behavioral format for helping a personality disorder. 313 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: But typical programs with the way that it's set up, 314 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 2: last a year at least, and then often people will 315 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: still need to repeat the year because there's certain segments 316 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: that they go over. Long story short to that is 317 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: is that there's different ways you can approach addressing treating 318 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: a personality disorder. I think the two biggest hurdles are 319 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 2: the person being seeing the need for it in the 320 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 2: first place, and then having the patience and the resources 321 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: to be able to hang in there for an extended 322 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: period of time. Because if you think about it, if 323 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: you're thinking about going to therapy and you're even if 324 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: you're twenty five years old, you're looking at least a 325 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: good decade or more of well ingrained reactions to life behaviors, 326 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: knee jerk responses, attitudes that you're trying to undo or 327 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: at least modify, and that takes time. 328 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, I want to 329 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: ask you a question around what feels like empathy and 330 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: like other people's reactions to people who have been diagnosed 331 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: with a personality disorder. And we know it's because this 332 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: cluster of disorders, like it mostly impacts other people, right, 333 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: Like it shows up a lot in your relationships. And 334 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: so there's a lot of burn bridges, a lot of 335 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: just a lot of hurt that has typically been caused 336 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: because maybe this person either doesn't recogniz they have a 337 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: personality disorder or because that is the way the disorder 338 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: itself presents. So can you talk about, like what does 339 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: the support system look like and maybe like what does 340 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: it mean to have empathy towards people who have been 341 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: diagnosed with personality disorders? 342 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: That is a real tough one because I think it 343 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 2: takes a certain amount of It takes a lot of 344 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: patience for people close to a person with a personality 345 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 2: disorder to hang in there and not want to reject them. 346 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: And on the one hand, there's the issue of well, 347 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: what about the needs of the loved one. I'll just 348 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: use a personal example. I dated someone years ago and 349 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: that person did have insight because that person he had 350 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 2: been in therapy, and so me, being the empathic person, 351 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, he just needs to be loved. 352 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 2: I can love him enough that'll help him heal. Well, okay, 353 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: that's nice, but what's that doing for me? Like I'm 354 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: sacrificing my own self while I kind of put up 355 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: with being beat up on by this person. So I've 356 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: got to have my own boundaries as the person who 357 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: cares about the person with the personality disorder. I've got 358 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: to have boundaries around how much of myself I'm willing 359 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 2: and my own wishes and needs I'm willing to put 360 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 2: aside for the sake of just tolerating bad behavior, if 361 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 2: you will, from this other person while still trying to 362 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: be understanding that they're working through something. Now, I think 363 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: the difference is if the person really is working through 364 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 2: they're at that stage of having very little awareness or 365 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 2: very little They may be aware because they've watched a 366 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 2: bunch of TikTok videos, but they're still not wanting to 367 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 2: get into any kind of treatment because it's not that bad. 368 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 2: They won't need to go pay somebody for this. They 369 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,719 Speaker 2: can work on this. Well, the working that they're doing 370 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 2: is attacking you every day and trying not to attack you. 371 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: I mean so, and that's not really going to help 372 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 2: very much. The call to be patient and make the 373 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 2: sacrifice of putting up with the stuff comes if the 374 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: person is actively working toward change, because you need to 375 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 2: give them credit for that. But it's not a good 376 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: situation if the person hardly recognizes that they need to change. 377 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: Another part about this too, is well, what about you 378 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: in retrospect, I can see I mean, I was much 379 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 2: younger than but I could see where I was part 380 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: of the problem of even allowing myself to be in 381 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: that kind of relationship. It may not have stemmed from 382 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 2: a personality disordered, but it stemmed from some vulnerabilities I 383 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: had that allowed me to just deal with whatever I 384 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: was getting. All that to say, be careful not to 385 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 2: judge the other person too much, because you're probably not 386 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 2: one hundred percent yourself, and so they're probably putting up 387 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,239 Speaker 2: with some stuff from you. So that's another kind of 388 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: concession you can give them that if they're working toward change, 389 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 2: they're going to need a long runway to be able 390 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: to make those changes. But you also got to have 391 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 2: to look at yourself too, and not just be standing 392 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: on a high horse saying you've got a personality disorder. 393 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: Nothing's wrong with me. You need to fix yourself or 394 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 2: am gone that marks. 395 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: Are there any racial or cultural nuances that are related 396 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: to you, like the diagnosis of personality disorders that you 397 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: feel like are important to call attention to. 398 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 2: That's a really difficult question for me to pinpoint, like 399 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 2: give a specific answer. The way that we have defined 400 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: personality disorders already has a lot of criticism associated with it. 401 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: In fact, in the DSM there's a whole like appendix 402 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: area of a whole nother way to look at personality disorders. 403 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 2: And because it's you know, this is thought that this 404 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: is this old fashion and it doesn't really take into 405 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 2: account nuances. And I think the nuances come with the 406 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: cultural differences. So I think it's very easy for say 407 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 2: a black male to be considered antisocial if he's the 408 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: least bit I don't even say aggressive, because I think 409 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 2: that's another bias, but the least bit assertive, loud talking, 410 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: arguing for the sake of argument. I mean things that 411 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: you're used to in your family. Someone looking from the 412 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: outside could say, oh, all these people have personality disorders. 413 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: And I think it's easy to peg people as if 414 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: you're the least bit disagreeable, if you will then you're angry. 415 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: That's not necessarily calling someone personality disordered, but it still 416 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: speaks to that easily pathologizing behavior because it's something that 417 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 2: you're not used to. But another kind of cultural bias 418 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 2: is the one of our stereotype is the Italians living 419 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: next to you a arguing all the time. Well, people 420 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: can say that about black people too, but that idea 421 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: of people talking loud or having disagreements, that's pathology, whereas 422 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: that actually may be adaptive for that group of people. 423 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: Like being able to just be frank about what you're feeling, 424 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 2: that's a good thing, rather than stuffing your feelings because 425 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: we're going to look a certain way and growing up 426 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: believing that it's not okay to express yourself that causes problems. 427 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for that nuance. I think that's helpful. So, 428 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, you made a couple of comments that I 429 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: definitely want to talk more about in terms of all 430 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: of the mental health information that we're seeing online, all 431 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: of the information that we see in YouTube, TikTok, like 432 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: all of the places, and I would imagine your training 433 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: was similar in that I was trained that the number 434 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: of people who actually meet criteria you're for personality disorders 435 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: is very small if you go online, Oh my gosh, 436 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: like it's one in three. Like there everybody has, oh 437 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: personality disorder. Can you talk a little bit about like 438 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: the proliferation of conversations around mental health, specifically around personality disorders, 439 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: and which you think is often missed in some of 440 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: these conversations. 441 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm trying to hold it together, not get not 442 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: go off of my soap box. 443 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: But so bock and welcome here. 444 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so let me just let me just cut to 445 00:28:53,680 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: the chase. I cannot stand the way narcissism is portrayed online. 446 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 2: I can't stand it. Granted, there are people who put 447 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: out very accurate and helpful information, but somehow, because it's 448 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: become trending such that people have just latched onto it 449 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: and turned anything that they don't like about someone into 450 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 2: it's because of narcissism. You know, everybody's mother is a narcissist. 451 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: So I'm not actually sure why we've latched onto that 452 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 2: personality disorder. I'm not sure, but that has become the 453 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: scapegoat for any bad behaviors because you're a narcissist. And 454 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: this is a small antidote example, my son He was 455 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 2: in middle school at the time, and I was he's 456 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: got social anxiety, and I was trying to help him 457 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: with like how to have conversations with people, and so 458 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 2: I was saying, okay, so you know, and you need 459 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: to ask people questions and listen and then try and 460 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: follow up on some of those questions later of things 461 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: that they told you. And then you also want to 462 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 2: give a little of yourself too, So you don't want 463 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: to just be an interview. You want to talk about yourself, 464 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: give an example you had in your life. And he said, yeah, 465 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 2: but if I talk about myself, then I'm being a narcissist. 466 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: And I thought, oh, my goodness, really is that what 467 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: we've come to. And so I think narcissistic personality is 468 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: a lot more complicated or complex than we give it 469 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: credit for. Online there's different presentations of it, but narcissism 470 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: itself is a good thing. In fact, not having a 471 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: healthy love of yourself is what makes you susceptible to 472 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 2: narcissistic personality disorder, because you have either a fragile sense 473 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: of self or an overinflated sense of self stemming from 474 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 2: not enough self validation. So you're more sensitive to slights 475 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 2: and things, or needing to puff yourself up or tear 476 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 2: people down to build yourself up, and things like that. 477 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: All right, So that's my soapbox. Sorry on that particular disorder. 478 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 2: But I think that, just as I was saying earlier 479 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: that even in a diagnostic setting, we psychiatrists or psychologists 480 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: clinicians are trained to put the brakes on any tendency 481 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: to want to diagnose someone with a personality disorder. It's 482 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 2: on the first meeting, especially if it's in the context 483 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: of them having what we would call an access one disorder. 484 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: Those would be the things like depression, bipolar disorder, anxiety OCD, 485 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: things like that, because that's like the storm that can 486 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: cover up the personality that's underneath. You can't really see 487 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: what's underneath if you've got all this other stuff going on. 488 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 2: So if a clinician can't always know what an underlying 489 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: personality someone has doing a diagnostic evaluation, how can you 490 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 2: watch a TikTok video and know what someone's personality is. 491 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: And it's not useful too, because, unfortunately, I think it 492 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: ends up being used as weapons for name calling and 493 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: boxing people in and that's not the intent you know 494 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 2: of even having this construct of personality disorders. So on 495 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: the positive side, I am pleased with how far we've 496 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 2: come in talking about mental health in general. When I 497 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 2: started on YouTube, actually I started probably like twenty ten, 498 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: and I had several false starts because people didn't at 499 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: least from the comments I got, people don't want to 500 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: hear about this, and so I got a lot, a 501 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 2: lot of hate. So I just I put out a 502 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 2: few videos, then get scared and stop. So anyway, when 503 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 2: I started in twenty eighteen regularly even then, like part 504 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: of my purpose was to destigmatize the discussion, and a 505 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 2: goal was to make talking about mental health part of 506 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 2: regular conversation, not anything that we got a whisper about. 507 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 2: We're not all the way there, but we're pretty far along, 508 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: and I love that. I love that a gen Z 509 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 2: person can say out loud, well, my anxiety is getting 510 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 2: in the way of me doing XYZ, and it could 511 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 2: admit that and not feel ashamed. But with every good 512 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: thing comes downsides too, and this is just one of 513 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 2: those downsides of proliferation of misinformation, but also the trivialization 514 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: of some of these disorder or such that ADHD is 515 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: another one that not every trouble. You know, I couldn't 516 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 2: focus yesterday. Oh I've got ADHD. Not everyone who has 517 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: trouble focusing has ADHD. But you know, I think it's 518 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 2: just human nature to want to put people in categories, 519 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 2: name things, understand what things are, and so I can't 520 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 2: fault someone who has limited information to take the information 521 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 2: that they do have and try it and apply it. 522 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 2: And that's essentially what's. 523 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: Happening more from our conversation after the break. Of course, 524 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: there's the youtubes, the tiktoks, all the things, but there's 525 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: also like bigger media productions like movies and TV shows 526 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: that often don't do the greatest job of actually displaying 527 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: what a personality disorder might look like. Are there any 528 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 1: instances of things in film or TV that you've seen 529 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: and you feel like they've done actually a really good 530 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: job talking about or displaying personality disorders? 531 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 2: So this isn't personality disorder. But I did really like 532 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 2: the way they portrayed psychosis in a Beautiful Mind way 533 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 2: back in the day with Russell Crowe. That was like 534 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 2: my first experience with feeling like, wow, Okay, they did 535 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 2: a great job of showing this and how it can 536 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 2: be that was very creative of them. But since then, 537 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 2: there was a movie out that came out not too 538 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: long ago with Tom Holland and I forget the name 539 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 2: of it. They were trying to show multiple personality disorder, 540 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 2: which is a very complex disorder, and I just thought, 541 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, I think there's more examples 542 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 2: of it just being this is what we need to 543 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 2: see on screen, this is what will excite people, So 544 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,479 Speaker 2: let's make it look like this than true portrayals, because 545 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 2: true portrayals aren't necessarily all that interesting. 546 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think is would make them sometimes difficult 547 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: to depict online right or infield? 548 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And actually that's a good point back 549 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: to this, like why is there so much focus on say, 550 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 2: narcissistic personality disord and borderline They're in the cluster of dramatic, 551 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 2: and dramatic is more interesting than anxious, like a dependent 552 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 2: personality disorder that's not as interesting. So yeah, that the 553 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 2: presentation itself, I think does have something to do with 554 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 2: what's portrayed, how it's portrayed, and how much we focus 555 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: on it. 556 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Marks, what suggestions would you have for people for 557 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: wading through all of the information they might find online. 558 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: You just mentioned like, of course people want resources like 559 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: something's happening, I want some answers. What suggestions do you 560 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: have for people for how to make sense of what 561 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: they might find online. 562 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess first is getting clear on what 563 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 2: you're trying to accomplish. So there's watching for entertainment like 564 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 2: we do television, and then there is trying to get 565 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: inside about yourself, and then there's trying to get inside 566 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 2: about someone you know. I think if you really are 567 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 2: trying to understand yourself better, it's about looking at the 568 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 2: source and being aware of things being too generalized. So 569 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 2: I can think of an example a TikTok video. I 570 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 2: saw someone I can't remember exactly what she said. It 571 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 2: was something like signs of my ADHD and it was 572 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: I can't stop writing in my journal or something like that, 573 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 2: where it's like that's actually, I mean, people can do 574 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 2: that for any reason that's not that doesn't equate to well, 575 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 2: then you've got ADHD if you do these things, but 576 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 2: that's what people will take from that. So the viewer 577 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: then has to be aware that to keep in mind 578 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 2: that people talking about their personal experiences is their personal 579 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 2: experiences and it's not it's not necessarily something you can 580 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 2: draw from. You might be able to relate that, oh yeah, 581 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 2: I do that too, but that doesn't mean you now 582 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 2: have a disorder because of that. And so I think 583 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 2: if there's a lot of things you can get online, 584 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 2: and I think that the things to get to extract 585 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 2: out of all of the information online is feeling the 586 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 2: things that you're experiencing, well, that you're not alone, but 587 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 2: then that you're feeling heard like wow, she does this too, 588 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 2: or she has this too, this is what Okay, I 589 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 2: don't feel so bad anymore. Like those are some positive 590 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 2: outcomes that still has nothing to do with what your 591 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 2: diagnosis is. That's just experiences. And so this unification of 592 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 2: experiences and destigmatizing and all that, those are all good 593 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 2: things that I think are good to get from social 594 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 2: media information. Going deeper than that though, as far as 595 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 2: actually feeling like it's helping you understand yourself or even 596 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: come to a conclusion about something you may have looking 597 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 2: at the source. So YouTube has taken the step of 598 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 2: identifying clinicians and putting that label under their videos. So 599 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 2: we have to submit our licenses and things like that. 600 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 2: So all of my videos will say this is from 601 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 2: a licensed health provider, and they do that for this 602 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 2: purpose so that people can have a better way of 603 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 2: screening the source of their information, so that at least 604 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 2: you have a greater chance that this is accurate. So 605 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 2: looking for reliable sources, accurate sources, even on say TikTok 606 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 2: or Instagram if the person they don't have those labels 607 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 2: like YouTube, but you could still look at the person's credentials. 608 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: So pay attention to whether what you're watching is someone's 609 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 2: perersonal experience which may not apply to you and others, 610 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 2: or is it from a clinician talking about broad experiences 611 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 2: and talking more in specific terms. Then if you think 612 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 2: that you have a disorder, go get a second opinion 613 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 2: or an official opinion from a licensed clinician rather than 614 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 2: just going with that and trying to find a way 615 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 2: to treat yourself if it's something that requires some form 616 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 2: of treatment. Because let's just say we're talking about personality 617 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 2: disorders today, but let's say you watch a bunch of 618 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 2: videos and you believe that you have I don't know, 619 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 2: dependent personality disorder, which is in the anxious, fearful cluster 620 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 2: where you are very hesitant to the assertive. You feel 621 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 2: like you need people to take care of you a lot, 622 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 2: which can cause problems getting on people's nerves. Are just 623 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 2: not being able to have enough get up and go 624 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 2: and do your own thing because you've got to wait 625 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 2: for other people's approval. If you recognize that because of 626 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: some videos that you've seen, then it's still helpful for 627 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 2: you to have that insight. Going back to what I 628 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 2: was saying earlier about often with personality disorders, people lack 629 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 2: the insight to see what the problem is. So it's 630 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 2: still a win. If you never see a psychiatrist or therapist, 631 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 2: it's still a win to have insight. So if these 632 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 2: videos help you have insight, that's good, but still it's 633 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 2: good if then you can take it to the next 634 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 2: step and try and work on yourself. There's books, there's 635 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 2: lots of self help material out there that's written and 636 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 2: provided by authoritative sources, So you can go to that 637 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,879 Speaker 2: next step, to an authoritative source to try and get 638 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 2: some self help rather than the self help being all 639 00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 2: from TikTok videos from Jane Doe who's talking about her 640 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 2: personal experience because everything about her may not apply to you. 641 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 2: I appreciate you. 642 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: Bringing up the idea of resources, and that was my 643 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: next question. Are there any particular resources like podcasts, books, 644 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,959 Speaker 1: other things that you typically recommend for people who either 645 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: have been diagnosed with the personality disorder or are people 646 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: who may be in their support system who want to 647 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: learn more or get more information. 648 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 2: I don't have any things specific, because there's so many 649 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,439 Speaker 2: things out there now. Years ago, no, but now there's 650 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 2: lots of different podcasts. There's your podcast, I mean, which 651 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 2: you know, it didn't exist years ago. So I think 652 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 2: it's important though, for people to feel like whatever resources 653 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 2: they're using, whether it be a book, a podcast, a 654 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 2: YouTube channel, that it feel relatable to them, because there's 655 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 2: people who've produced some great stuff, but it's either just 656 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,320 Speaker 2: too academic maybe and it's just not going to be helpful. 657 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 2: So okay, don't worry about that, don't stress over that. 658 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 2: There's so many other sources out there, But it really 659 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 2: boils down to just doing searches on whatever platform it 660 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 2: is that you like to consume, whether it be a podcast, 661 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 2: go to Spotify or Apple podcasts and search for the topic. 662 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 2: Amazon search for the topic. So yeah, I don't have 663 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,879 Speaker 2: a specific recommendation because there's just so many resources out there. 664 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 2: Oh one other thing though, so getting more specific about resources. 665 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 2: So nammy National Association of Mentally Ill. Don't let that 666 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 2: ill word scare you away. But before there was so 667 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 2: much more information like podcasts and online information. They were 668 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 2: kind of a good place to go for resources, and 669 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 2: they still are. But personality disorder wise, I'm not so sure. 670 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 2: I don't know what they have to offer there, but 671 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 2: that is still another place you could look. 672 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: With one thing that you hope people leave this conversation 673 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: kind of understanding better about personality disorders, Doctor Marx. 674 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 2: I would love it if people just understood the basic 675 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 2: that we all have personalities and not all personality traits 676 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 2: are pathologic, like personality disorders is pathology, meaning it causes 677 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 2: problems in multiple areas of your life. So one bad day, 678 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 2: one bad month of you feeling insecure and yelling at 679 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 2: people does not mean you have a personality disorder. This 680 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 2: is a pattern of behavior that reaches or affects multiple 681 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:58,760 Speaker 2: aspects of your life, your relationships, your work relationships as well, 682 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,800 Speaker 2: or school if you're still a student. It affects even 683 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,799 Speaker 2: how you feel about yourself. The second part of that 684 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:12,800 Speaker 2: is personality disorders are. They're not rare, but they're not common. 685 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 2: So let's just say general prevalence rates may be around 686 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 2: let's just say on a high side, it would be 687 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:25,280 Speaker 2: like five six percent. Depression is around ten to twelve percent. 688 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 2: Those are still small numbers in the big scheme of things, 689 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 2: But personality disorders is less common than depression. So don't 690 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 2: be so quick to believe that every person with bad 691 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 2: behavior or who gets on your nerves and you can't 692 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 2: stand has a personality disorder. They may be going through 693 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,439 Speaker 2: some things that's making them act this way. They may 694 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 2: have emotional dysregulation, which is not the same as a 695 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 2: personality disorder. That's an aspect of your behavior that's controlled 696 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 2: by your brain prefrontal cortex, be specific, and so if 697 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 2: someone has trouble managing their emotions, it doesn't necessarily mean 698 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,320 Speaker 2: they have a personality source. So not everything so big 699 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 2: picture here, Not everything's personality disorder. If you feel you 700 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 2: have one, or you've been identified to have one, you 701 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 2: can change, but you've got to temper your expectations that 702 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 2: it's going to be a little bit of change over time, 703 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 2: and you've got to be patient with yourself or patient 704 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,839 Speaker 2: with the person in your life who is working on themselves. 705 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,919 Speaker 2: Because just like your personality did not form from one thing, 706 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,399 Speaker 2: the solution to it or the change doesn't happen from 707 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 2: a couple of things you do. It's going to be 708 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 2: a lifetime of change. 709 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: And where can we stay connected with you, doctor walks way, 710 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: can we check out the YouTube channel and anything else 711 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: you have to offer? 712 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 2: Sure? So, my main platform that I am active on 713 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 2: his YouTube and my channel is my name doctor Tracy Marx, 714 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 2: and that's d R and then t R a c 715 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 2: e Y and then m A r k s. The 716 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 2: same handle on Instagram and the same handle on on 717 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 2: TikTok as well. But I'm more active on YouTube and 718 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 2: then Instagram and then TikTok. Last my website where I 719 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 2: just I post articles and also my videos on that 720 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 2: site as well is marx Psychiatry dot com. Perfect. 721 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: We'll be sure to include all of that in our 722 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,760 Speaker 1: show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today, 723 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: doctor Marx. I appreciate it. 724 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 2: You are so welcome. I enjoyed this and thanks for 725 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 2: having me. Thank you. 726 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm so glad Doctor Marks was able to share her 727 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: expertise for this conversation to learn more about her and 728 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: her work. Visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls 729 00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: dot com slash Session four thirty one. Don't forget to 730 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,759 Speaker 1: text this episode to two of your girls right now 731 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,840 Speaker 1: and tell them to check it out. Did you know 732 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions 733 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: or suggestions for the podcast. If you have movies or 734 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: books you'd like us to review, or have thoughts about 735 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: topics you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message 736 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: at Memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and 737 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: let us know what's on your mind. We just might 738 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a 739 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,280 Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy 740 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow 741 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls or join 742 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: us over in our Patreon channel for exclusive updates and 743 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,239 Speaker 1: behind the scenes content. You can join us at community 744 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,760 Speaker 1: dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced 745 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 1: by Elise Ellis, Indytubu and Tyrie Rush. Editing was done 746 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining 747 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this 748 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon Take good care