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Speaker 1: To what would you talk about on your on your

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Speaker 1: podcast fine morning show. You know who we have on

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Speaker 1: the phone right now. It's Pavia Rosatti. She's this incredible

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Speaker 1: author and expert of everything about travel, and right now

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Speaker 1: she's got this book out which is really interesting. I

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Speaker 1: want you to hear about it. The timing could not

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Speaker 1: be more perfect for Gandhias especially. It's called travel North

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Speaker 1: America and Avoid being a Tourist, which is great advice.

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Speaker 1: It's it's easier to say than actually do. So why

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Speaker 1: did you want to write a book about I think

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Speaker 1: this is your second in this series, right, how to

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Speaker 1: travel without being really touristy? Correct? Um So, the first

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Speaker 1: book that I wrote with Gerlyn Gerba, who is my

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Speaker 1: co founder. Also we have a travel website called fathom

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Speaker 1: um we this was this is how we've always thought

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Speaker 1: about travel and how we've done everything. The first book

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Speaker 1: was called Travel Anywhere parentheses and Avoid being a Tourist,

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Speaker 1: and in this book we were focused on North America.

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Speaker 1: The timing ended up being right because this came out

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Speaker 1: at a time when Americans really are staying local, when

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Speaker 1: everybody around the world is actually staying local and really

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Speaker 1: close to home. It's been this global phenomenon in travel

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Speaker 1: that Italians are discovering Italy, the French are discovering France,

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Speaker 1: and Americans are discovering America. Yeah, exactly, it's beautiful. You know,

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Speaker 1: we think when we need to travel that we need

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Speaker 1: to go really far away, we need to be jet lagged.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't count if I'm not in another part of

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Speaker 1: the world, and that's really not true. You can travel,

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Speaker 1: you can. I mean I usually live in New York City.

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Speaker 1: I can hop on a subway and go to neighborhood

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Speaker 1: and queens have never been to. I'll hear a language

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll eat um foods that I don't

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Speaker 1: know um, and that can be a travel experience. Also, Elvis,

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Speaker 1: to answer your question the idea about why being a

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Speaker 1: tourist or why why you don't want to be a

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Speaker 1: traveler tourist you want to be a traveler, it's more

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Speaker 1: because it's a more open minded mindset. If you are

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Speaker 1: a traveler, then if you are a tourist, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we really like to tap into, and I think

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Speaker 1: you'd probably like to tap into that. Also, Oh absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you know, I my friends get mad at me when

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Speaker 1: we go to Paris or something. Let's go to the loop.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't need to go to the Loop.

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Speaker 1: I can go to Google. I can google Mona Lisa,

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Speaker 1: She's right there. Yes, I don't need to. That's what

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Speaker 1: gets me mad when I go to England, because I

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Speaker 1: like to travel with someone who knows where we are

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Speaker 1: and they know the good food, and like, Oh, England,

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Speaker 1: the food is disgusting. I'm like, but you're just not

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Speaker 1: eating at the right places. You're eating at the tourist traps. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if the menu has pictures on it, don't go there. Listen.

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Speaker 1: I I have a rule of thumb that if it's

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Speaker 1: written in certain languages, don't go there because it's catering

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Speaker 1: to a foreign audience by definition. Hey, so here's Gandhi

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the Grand Canyon where it's actually

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Speaker 1: it's kind of good to do a few touristy things

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Speaker 1: while you're there, because that's how you experience it, right.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with doing touristy things if you do

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Speaker 1: them the right way. If you go to if you've

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Speaker 1: never been to the Louver, the Louver is exquisite. If

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Speaker 1: you like art, what a treasure of places if you

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Speaker 1: go to Rome and don't go to the Vatican, you've

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Speaker 1: really missed out. But there's a there's a smarter way

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Speaker 1: to do all of these touristy things. So maybe you

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Speaker 1: go in the off hours when there are fewer people,

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Speaker 1: so you can feel like you're enjoying it more and

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Speaker 1: able and not being kind of pushed through um with

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of a double deck or bus full of people.

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Speaker 1: So touristy and touristy things, a lot of them got

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Speaker 1: to be that way because they're totally awesome. But it's

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Speaker 1: the way that you experience them that can either be

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Speaker 1: as a traveler or as a tourist. Well that's the

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Speaker 1: that's all inspiring thing you can do right here in

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Speaker 1: the United States. You don't have to whip out your

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Speaker 1: passport and fly over the Atlantic to find stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: And you're also going through New Mexico on your road trip,

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Speaker 1: on your way to ultimately end up in Sequoia and

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Speaker 1: your and Yosemite. New Mexico is like the hot air

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Speaker 1: ballooning capital of America. That think about taking a hot

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Speaker 1: air balloon ride up in the sky at the break

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Speaker 1: of dawn. Come on, that's gonna stay with you forever.

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Speaker 1: There are so many experiences. So my question to you is,

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Speaker 1: I go with a lot of the touristy things, and

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Speaker 1: I booked through tour companies for safety reasons. So I think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: they know exactly where we're gonna go, they know the terrain,

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Speaker 1: they know what we're supposed to bring, They'll have doctors

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Speaker 1: and medics and all the medicine that I need if

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Speaker 1: I do this stuff. But when you do that, you're right,

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Speaker 1: you do end up in these tourist traps and you

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Speaker 1: do go to the places. So what is your advice

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Speaker 1: for kind of staying safe and going off the beaten

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Speaker 1: path a little bit? Because I want to do both.

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Speaker 1: So what what you're tapping into is why it's incredibly

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Speaker 1: useful and smart to work with an expert. But if

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Speaker 1: you work with a local expert, you're going to have

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Speaker 1: a more intimate experience than if you work with somebody

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Speaker 1: who has an office in every single country on Earth. Right,

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Speaker 1: So the key is, find a local fixer, find a

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Speaker 1: local expert's and that's how you will have a quieter,

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Speaker 1: more intimate experience and yet still be safe, which right now,

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Speaker 1: more than ever, is a really important part of traveling

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Speaker 1: making sure that you're staying safe and that you know

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Speaker 1: what the local rules are. Wow, you know I know

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Speaker 1: something about you. This is Pavio Rosatti, by the way,

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Speaker 1: if you're just listening in, uh, co founder of Fathom

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Speaker 1: Travel right and author of a new book, Travel North

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Speaker 1: America and Avoid being a tourist. Now, we went on

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Speaker 1: a vacation. What three weeks ago? How long ago was it? Yea,

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Speaker 1: I have something in common with Pavia. My bag is

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Speaker 1: still packed from vacation, and I think I think there's

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Speaker 1: a wet swimsuit or oh nice and moldy. I love it.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Elvis, there are some things I just

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Speaker 1: kind of never take them out of the suitcase. I

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Speaker 1: hate unpacking so much. I'm a champion packer. I can

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Speaker 1: pack really well, super efficiently, really fast. Um but I

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Speaker 1: hate unpacking and my suitcase will sometimes stay in my

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Speaker 1: bedroom for like a month, almost a month. Also, you

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Speaker 1: like sitting at the bulkhead seat in an airplane. I

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Speaker 1: can't do it because I don't have anywhere to put

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Speaker 1: my stuff underneath me too. Um well, that's why when

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Speaker 1: you get on a plane you have a little go bag, right,

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Speaker 1: You only if you're in a bulkhead seat, you only

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Speaker 1: need to stow your bag during takeoff and landing, right,

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Speaker 1: So what you do is you put your essential thing

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Speaker 1: like the book I want to read, because they won't

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Speaker 1: let you keep your phone on, so you keep the

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Speaker 1: essential thing that you want to read, or the magazine

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Speaker 1: or a tissue, chapstick, your eye drops, whatever those essential

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Speaker 1: things are. You pull that out of your bag, stow it,

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Speaker 1: and then as soon as you have reached your cruising

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Speaker 1: altitude and it's safe to unbuckle your seatbelt, you can

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Speaker 1: take your bag down. Bulkhead. Yeah, bulkhead is business class

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Speaker 1: on the cheep. Yeah, I mean what was it was,

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Speaker 1: especially before you had to pay for um bulkhead seats.

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Speaker 1: Now the airlines make you pay for a glass of water,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's not as easy to call it

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Speaker 1: business class for free, but it's certainly business class for

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Speaker 1: much cheaper. More people take you long legs. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: more people than ever before, Paula are wanting to get

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Speaker 1: back out on the road and they want to travel.

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Speaker 1: But we've we've been just bursting at the door to

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Speaker 1: try to get out to the car and go. And

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Speaker 1: what Gandhi's doing Uh, it's we're all. We're all very

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Speaker 1: very very jealous. Um. When I have a question, can

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Speaker 1: I ask you a question? Yeah, I heard that you

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Speaker 1: like to go to the supermarket in all different locations

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Speaker 1: that you travel. What's the coolest thing you found in

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Speaker 1: a supermarket? Like something different? All right, I'm gonna confess

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Speaker 1: something pretty dorky. Um. So, I'd like to bring things

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Speaker 1: home that are really beautifully packaged. So if you open

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Speaker 1: my fridge, it's like the United Nations of spices, right.

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Speaker 1: I have jars and weird things and jellies. I have

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Speaker 1: a papaya coconut jelly from Sri Lanka. My husband is like,

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Speaker 1: this thing needs to start paying rent, Like, we've got

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Speaker 1: to get rid of them. This is a memory drawer

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Speaker 1: for me. Um. I'm a big laundry person, So when

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Speaker 1: any anytime I go to Italy, I bring home, like

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Speaker 1: laundry detergent to hand wash my sweaters. The boys, I

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Speaker 1: know you're sitting there rolling your eyes at this. This

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Speaker 1: is such a dorky thing to do. Um. But uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I sometimes will bring home laundry detergent. Some things

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Speaker 1: that smell they just smell better, um, spices. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: I'm in Portugal right now, and the thing to bring

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Speaker 1: home are beautiful canned sardines and little tinned fish. They're

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Speaker 1: super beautiful. They make great souvenirs, beautiful packaging, several things

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Speaker 1: first of all, spices and things. Yeah, we I want

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Speaker 1: to I want you to give us a few fresh

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Speaker 1: ideas of where to travel in the United States of America. Uh,

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Speaker 1: because you know where Gandhi is to get Grand Canyon. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've all heard about. We all want to go. There

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Speaker 1: are some other places that we should consider that maybe

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Speaker 1: we haven't considered it. And And I'm gonna give you one

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Speaker 1: for European just said Portugal. Portugal is to fly into

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Speaker 1: Lisabon from New York. It's really one of the shortest

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Speaker 1: European air flights from here. In Portugal is incredible. It's

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Speaker 1: like San Francisco in Europe because you have the hills,

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Speaker 1: you have cable cars, you have water, the food, the people,

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Speaker 1: and it's a little less expensive in my opinion than

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Speaker 1: going to London or Paris or one of the others,

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Speaker 1: or San Francisco. I mean, San Francisco is one of

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Speaker 1: the most expensive cities in America. Porto yesterday we had

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Speaker 1: two coffees for three euros. Like you just where do

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Speaker 1: you get in? It's inexpensive, it's charming. Um. So I'm

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Speaker 1: in Porto, which is the second city in the north.

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Speaker 1: This is where they make all the port um There's

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Speaker 1: a new, massive, beautiful wine complex called World of Wine

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Speaker 1: that opened during the pandemic. And you come here and

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Speaker 1: you can learn all about the history of wines in Portugal,

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Speaker 1: the history of cork, which is the most amazing treat

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Speaker 1: you've ever heard of, so much more than a bottle stopper,

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Speaker 1: the history of fashion, it's incredible. All the stuff that's

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Speaker 1: over here. To answer your question about where to go

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Speaker 1: if you don't want to go to the Grand Canyon,

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Speaker 1: know the really big, big places we have all these

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Speaker 1: incredible state parks, right and all these national parks that

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Speaker 1: are smaller and not as big. So where Gandhi just

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Speaker 1: went through. Did you make it to White Sands National

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Speaker 1: Park any chance? Yes? So in New Mexico. So their

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Speaker 1: fields so imagine they're like fields of white dunes. You

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Speaker 1: think you're in the Sahara Desert. It's finally ground gypsum

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Speaker 1: um and you can ride horseback, you can camp, and

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Speaker 1: you're in this like beautiful desert scape of like white dunes.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. So around you gotta tart it around. Well listen,

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Speaker 1: but here's what's so great. Like you're in a car,

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Speaker 1: you have so much freedom to be able to pive

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Speaker 1: it and say no, let's go here, let's go there.

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Speaker 1: You're a little self contained bubble of fun. You don't

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Speaker 1: need to worry about a hotel room because you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be because you're right there. So national parks, the country

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Speaker 1: is really rich with so many of them. Utah is

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Speaker 1: the gift that keeps on giving. I mean it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter where. Scenic Root twelve in Utah is one of

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Speaker 1: the most beautiful drives I've ever done. Yes, there's Bryce,

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Speaker 1: and there's Zion, there's all these things you've heard of.

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Speaker 1: There's a park called Coda Chrome State Park, like it

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Speaker 1: is because of these incredible colors. And then in one

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Speaker 1: of the parts that remember which one, you kind of

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Speaker 1: just turn right and in two miles or in this

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Speaker 1: incredible place, they have something called Ancestors Alley where you

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Speaker 1: can still see scratched into the rock the graffiti of

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Speaker 1: who went through there, like jeb in eight seventy four,

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Speaker 1: it's still there the git. Yeah, that's incredible. So there

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Speaker 1: are billions of places to go in the United States

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to be It doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be a big hot spot for tourists. Go there, eat

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Speaker 1: the local food, go to the local grocery store, by

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Speaker 1: the local stuff, and take it home. This is all

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Speaker 1: great information and we're just scratching the service I can tell.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I can't wait to pick up your book

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Speaker 1: Travel North America. Avoid being a tourist because we all

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Speaker 1: need it now more than ever. And Pab it's great

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Speaker 1: having you on our show today. Thank you your time.

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Speaker 1: You could not have been better. Well, thank you so much. U.

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Speaker 1: We have in addition to the book, if I may,

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Speaker 1: we have the website fathom away dot com. So thank you.

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Speaker 1: Know that's very nice of you. Fathom away dot com. Okay,

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Speaker 1: h O M A W A Y dot com, um Our,

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Speaker 1: Instagram or Fathom way to Go. We love when people

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Speaker 1: tag their photos travel with fathom Okay, you're going to

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Speaker 1: go fast? Okay, Fathom way to go Okay, Fathom way

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Speaker 1: to go. Yeah. And you know when people tag their

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Speaker 1: photos travel with Fathom, we reshare them because we love

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Speaker 1: to see and we get so much inspiration from where

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Speaker 1: other people have been because it's not just the travel

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Speaker 1: experts who know where to go, it's the locals who

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Speaker 1: find great things and share them that really helps us

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Speaker 1: find and share great places all over the world. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, a splash of Cova in your cocktails. Yeah, excellent,

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Speaker 1: Pavio Rosatti's with us. Thank you so much for your

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Speaker 1: time and your thank you all. You know, traveling is learning.

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Speaker 1: Learning is what we need to be doing more of

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Speaker 1: getting out of our safe space and sometimes moving into

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Speaker 1: someone else's safe space. That's where that's where learning truly begins.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Pavia. To have Pavia have a great day. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. The Fifteen Minute Morning Show