1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: So a lot of things happened in the nineteen sixties. 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: It was a tumultuous, tumultuous time in the US and 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: throughout the world. And one of the things that a 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: lot of people don't know about the nineteen sixties is 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: that it was also a time of pretty prominent UFO sightings. Yeah, 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: you're you know, around fifteen, maybe a little more years 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: away from the Roswell incident. People are aware of what 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 1: you know, the words to use when describing seeing something strange, 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: and oh my goodness, we've got a special sighting for 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: you today. That's right. On December nine of nineteen sixty five, 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: we have reports of multiple witnesses seeing a bright and 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: shiny object shooting through the sky and apparently landing in 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: a little town called Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. Let's find out what 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: happened from UFOs, two ghosts and government cover ups. History 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: is riddled within explained events. You can turn back now 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Hand 18 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm Ben and today we are well, at least in 19 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: the room. We don't have super producer told with us. Yes, 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, our super producer Noel E. T. Brown 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: has moved on to a better place. He's he's directly outside. 22 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: He's directly outside, still on this show, watching us through 23 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: a nifty new window because he is moving on up. 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: But you know what, Matt, even though he's outside, something 25 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: tells me that he can hear us. Call it, call 26 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: it faith. Call it the pair of headphones I see 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: him wearing. And and the fact that he's nodding when 28 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: we say stuff, Oh, that is weird. He he did 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: respond in real time. Is it coincidence? Is it an accident? 30 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: Is there something else out there? Some other explanation? And 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: speaking of amazing segues. Today we're working on UFOs, right, 32 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: that's correct, specifically an incident that took place in Kecksburg, 33 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania that has baffled people ever since the day that 34 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: had occurred. Yeah, it's tantalized people. It is irritated skeptics 35 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: and ufologists alike, because even today spoiler alert, most people 36 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: don't agree about what happened, including uh surviving eyewitnesses. So 37 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: what we're going to do is explore the facts of this, 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: some of the ways that this changed, and in the end, 39 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: asked what you think, because this is a fascinating case. 40 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: But but okay, so Matt, just just the facts. What 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: what happened? At around four pm on December nine, nine, 42 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, around forty miles outside of Pittsburgh, 43 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: saw something bizarre, unexpected, and frightening. A ball of fire 44 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: shot through the sky. This thing, reportedly acorn shaped, appeared 45 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: to make a controlled crash, slowing down before it hit 46 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: the ground. Now, this isn't just one person that's giving 47 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: this report to a police officer or something. You know, 48 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: it's called calling nine one, Hey, I saw this crazy thing. 49 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: This event had hundreds of witnesses. Yet because numerous people 50 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: saw it, and the question would be what what was it? 51 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Because we know that these people all saw something, they 52 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: didn't just collectively pretend that something happened around five pm 53 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: in December night. But was it a military craft, wayward meteorite, 54 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: something else? That's right? It to me, just after hearing 55 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: the description, it sounds like what we've seen before on 56 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: numerous videos, with the meteorite breaking up as it's going 57 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: through the atmosphere. Right, because going through the atmosphere is 58 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: that no better Roses it's a heck of a trip 59 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: and most meters meteorites burn up, right. So this story, 60 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: we'll explore the evolution of this story. But for a while, 61 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: people thought the case was largely closed until that is, 62 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, and listeners, some of you may remember 63 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: a show called Unsolved Mysteries. Do you remember that when 64 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: met Oh, I definitely do. I loved it. I remember 65 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: I remember seeing it on. I guess it must have 66 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: been re runs by then, but it came on after 67 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: these reruns of ALF, and that was very it was 68 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: appropriate to me, it made sense to my my kid mind. 69 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: Uh So when when Unsolved Mysteries ran this episode on 70 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: Caxburg or this segment rather, uh, the what should we say? Um, 71 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: we're a family show, so we'll just say the poop 72 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: hit the fan almost immediately. And despite numerous in contradictory reports, 73 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: aspects of this instant remain unexplained today. So let's look 74 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: at the initial reports, how the subsequent explanations changed, as 75 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: well as words from the skeptics, words from those who 76 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: were convinced that this was some sort of extra terrestrial object, 77 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: and of course the eyewitnesses. That's right, and some of 78 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: the people who witnessed this. They claim that they actually 79 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: made it to the area or at least close area 80 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: to where this thing, whatever it is, impacted, and according 81 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: to some of the statements, they came upon a large 82 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: metallic acorn shaped object that was just in the ground 83 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: that had hit and it was one piece of solid metal. 84 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: Uh I think one person said bronze gold in color. 85 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: And it didn't have any kind of rivets in it 86 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: or anything like that. Didn't have seems, it didn't appear 87 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: to be created out of a bunch of man made materials, 88 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, the way you would see an aircraft. Sure 89 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: like an aircraft at that time would have visible rivets. 90 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: You could see clear marks of construction. It's interesting because 91 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: one of the witnesses will several actually claim they saw 92 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: markings that resembled Egyptian hieroglyphics and Matt, this reminds me, Yeah, 93 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: it reminds me of the Oh though the Roswald Crash 94 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: reports that we did some videos on I'm gonna go 95 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: ahead and say that we didn't see any clear photographs 96 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: of this thing at least you and I haven't found any, 97 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: but some reportedly reputedly allegedly exists let's go back to 98 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: a witness statement. There's a guy who was by the 99 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: time when his interview came around, he was a retired 100 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: machinist named Jim Romansky, and at the time of the event, 101 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: he was an eighteen year old volunteer firefighter. He said 102 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: he saw the object and looked like it was liquid 103 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: metal poured into a mold. And we can we can 104 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: look more at this later, but let's introduce one of 105 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: the most important witnesses for this story. A name you 106 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: need to remember is John Murphy. Now, at the time, 107 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: he was a brand new director of w h j 108 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: B in nearby Greensburg, which is it's a radio station, 109 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: exactly a radio station, gentlemen, And remember John Murphy. Now, 110 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: he received word of this event from a listener, which 111 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: is kind of cool, right, that idea that you're sitting 112 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: there doing your job as as you know, on the air, 113 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: and then what this thing, mysterious thing crashed and you're 114 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: stuck in a room, and you know, you're trying to 115 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: get in as much information as you can. I can. 116 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: I am so jealous of John Murphy in this instance. Well, yeah, 117 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: people still will call radio stations, and so he's the director. 118 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: I imagine he's sitting somewhere very much where you're sitting old, 119 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: directing things. Right. Okay, yeah, he really can hear us. 120 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: So back to the story, Yes, he He receives a 121 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: call from a listener named Francis Kelp. She reports that 122 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: something crazy had happened. Uh, the sky is falling, well 123 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: maybe not all of it, but some of it, well 124 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: maybe not some of it, but one flaming object has 125 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: fallen near her home. She said that she and her 126 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: kids approached this thing and they got about a half 127 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: mile away from it, and they saw what she described 128 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: as a four pointed star. So what Murphy do? Well, 129 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: first of all, let's just point out that a four 130 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: pointed star is a very different description than we've heard before, right, yeah, 131 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: for all the other stuff, right, Okay, So she calls 132 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania State Police and they asked her to meet 133 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: and lead them to where she found this thing. Now 134 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: back to John Murphy. He called the the Pennsylvania State 135 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: Police after he heard of this, and he asked Kelp 136 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: the the lady that we just said who went out 137 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: and saw the thing, to meet and then lead them 138 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: to where she saw it. Then Urphy himself drives out 139 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: to check it out. And here's the thing, we don't 140 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: know who made it there first. Was it Murphy, was 141 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: it the cops? Yeah? His wife. Murphy's wife, Bonnie Murphy, 142 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: said that she believes her husband made it out there first. 143 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: But as far as whether how true that is, we 144 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: we don't know. We do know that Murphy interviewed Francis 145 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: Kalpener kids at the scene um and he also ran 146 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: into state police officials Carl Metz and Paul Shipco, and 147 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: after they walked out of the woods, they were evasive 148 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: to Murphy, or he found them evasa when he asked 149 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: what they had seen, and they all they said was 150 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: that the military would be involved. So Murphy did what 151 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: so many of us have probably done when when we're 152 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: not happy with our interactions with an organization. He escalated it. Yeah. 153 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: So Murphy, however, was not one to be cowed or intimidated, 154 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: and he called uh mets and ship Co's boss. He 155 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: called the state police captain, whom my belief was named 156 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: Dousa d U s s A. Uh Dousa responded pretty 157 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: favorably and invited Murphy to come to the police office 158 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: in Greensburg to hear the official statement from the FEDS. 159 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: Members of the Army and the Air Force were there, 160 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: and we have a their official statement to quote at 161 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: least right the Pennsylvania State Police have made a thorough 162 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: search in the woods. We are convinced that there is 163 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: nothing whatsoever in the woods. Nothing We found nothing, not 164 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: even trees or wildlife. Yep, zilch zip nothing to see here, yep, 165 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: zip zitch not a surf. Uh. So Murphy Murphy takes 166 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: this statement, and obviously he doesn't believe it. He overhears 167 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: officers talking about a pulsating blue light, and when he 168 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: learns that they're going to return to the site, he 169 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: asked them if he can come with them, uh, and 170 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: they say yes. But when they get to the woods, 171 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: he's not allowed in there. The military has reportedly cordoned 172 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: off the area, you know, put the tape up, put 173 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: some guards around the perimeter, restricted access. And then several 174 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: witnesses say that they saw a large flatbed truck leaving 175 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: the same spot with a conical object of some sort 176 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: under the tarp, after which the military began to leave 177 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: as well. Man, so put yourself in Murphy's shoes here, 178 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: What do you do? You think that these guys are 179 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: hiding something that, you know, depending on what it is, 180 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: could have huge consequences on all of mankind perhaps or 181 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: maybe even just your country if it's another country's thing 182 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: that fell out of the sky. Uh, what do you do? Well, 183 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: Murphy decides that he's going to work on a radio 184 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: special called Object in the Woods, and he's interviewing witnesses. 185 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: He's talking to as many people as he can and 186 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: putting it on air. Now, a few days before this 187 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: special aired, witnesses began calling Murphy and requesting that he 188 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: chop out the parts that they were in. And you 189 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: know why why would they want that? Well, they were 190 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: fearing that the army, whoever is really in control of 191 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: the situation, maybe just the police, would somehow retaliate against 192 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: them for even talking about this thing. Now, after the 193 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: show men in suits visited Murphy, they went to his office. 194 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: They spoke in this back room for about half an hour. 195 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: They took his taped interviews when they left, and Murphy 196 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: refused to talk about this incident again. Now, that's pretty crazy, 197 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: right that that sounds like something you would write in 198 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: a script. Sure, it sounds it sounds very similar to 199 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: numerous men in black stories and anecdotes. It's it's true, though, Matt. 200 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: People do get visited, especially back then, people would get 201 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: visited by the Feds, just men in nondescript suits. You know, 202 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: it did happen. Murphy's wife, Bonnie noted that his his 203 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: research and the documents that they have been keeping were 204 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: gone as well, and she never saw the photographs that 205 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: Murphy took because he refused to speak about this incident. Allegedly, 206 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: he gave a copy of the unedited full documentary to 207 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: a man named Stan Gordon, but this unedited version of 208 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: the documentary has also disappeared. Uh. Stan Gordon is someone 209 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: who will come up later when we talk about the 210 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: modern day. Uh. He is someone who you can check 211 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: out if you believe there is some rotten in Denmark 212 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: or should I say rotten in Cakesburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah. So 213 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: let's look at some of these initial public statements. Huh okay, Well, 214 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 1: the first one the Spokesman Review. They published a story 215 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: on December ten called UFO Starts Many Fires and in 216 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: this piece they claim that the the objects set a 217 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: bunch of fires, or it started a bunch of fires 218 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: when it when it landed and or crashed. There were 219 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: lots of bursts of light that occurred when this when 220 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: this thing came down, and also a lot of smoke 221 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: before hitting the earth. Now in this in this story, 222 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: this is a fairly short article which you can look 223 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: up for yourself online and you'll see reports of different 224 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: fires happening around different parts of the Pennsylvania area and 225 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: outside of it. There's a report of somebody describing this 226 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: as a volleyball shaped object or volleyball size. But we 227 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: also have to keep in mind that for someone on 228 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: the ground with a fast moving object and a bright one, 229 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: it can be very difficult for us to have a 230 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: true understanding of the size of the object and the 231 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: distance of the object. And this is something that's going 232 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: to come up with some of the skeptical statements as well. 233 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: Another funny thing happens. The Air Force changes the official 234 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: report to state that instead of not find anything in 235 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: the woods, a meteorite fell to earth. Most people accepted 236 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: this explanation. The case seemed closed for decades. However, that 237 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: wasn't the last time the story would change. Yeah, that's true. Man. 238 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: In the As we said, this story hit the public 239 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: eye and the public mind a new things to the 240 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: folks at Unsolved Mysteries, and this was controversial in the area. Yeah, 241 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: at the time, people who lived in Caxburg really you know, 242 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: they were divided. Some people he didn't like the attention 243 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: that this was bringing to their fairly small town. And 244 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, uh, I think there was even a petition 245 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: that was gathered together and signed by a lot of people. Sure, yeah, 246 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: some of whom just didn't want the show of filmed. 247 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: They weren't alive when it happened. They had never claimed 248 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: to be witnesses, but they didn't want Unsolved Mysteries or 249 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: television types stirring up more out of towners and violating privacy. 250 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: I imagine it is interesting because it seems like it 251 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: would be, I don't know, a boom to your small 252 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: town if oh, there's a UFO store there. Now, this 253 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: this tourist industry that sprouts out around these things is 254 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: is definitely in swing there After the show, more witnesses 255 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: came forward, and will call them self identified witnesses because 256 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: they don't have a lot of confirmation, so these are anecdotes. 257 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: One one person was United States Air Force officer who 258 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: apparently tasked with guarding this flatbed truck we mentioned earlier 259 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: and told it was bound for Right Patterson Air Force Base. 260 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: Another one was a building contractor who apparently transported a 261 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: load of six quote special bricks whatever, whatever the heck 262 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: that is to a hangar inside right Patterson this is 263 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: an air Force space. And he looked inside and he 264 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: claims that he saw this bell shaped device with uh 265 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: some some men wearing these you know, the white radiation 266 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: suits on TV before the radiation protection suits. Yeah, and 267 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: he said, these guys are looking at it, going all 268 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: over it, just trying to figure out either either studying 269 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: it or something. And they start escorting the mountain. Tell him, 270 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: they say, he just saw an object that in twenty 271 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: years would become common knowledge. And we do know, Okay, 272 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: I have to say this in point of fairness, Matt. 273 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: We do know that, especially in terms of aircraft, uh, 274 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: that is completely possible twit years, not just for the 275 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: United States to do it, but for other countries, you know, China, Russia, 276 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: probably several European countries have that capability. Um, but the 277 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: United States is one of the biggest in the game. 278 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: So as soon as this happens, as soon as unsolved 279 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: Mysteries runs this thing. Uh numerous other shows began focusing 280 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: on Kecksburg, and they're tantalizing the UFO believers with things 281 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: that are not quite answers, and they're doubtlessly irritating the 282 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: heck out of you know, like the overly emotional skeptics. 283 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: And and uh so the question is what what exactly landed? 284 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: We have several possibilities, right. The first one, like we 285 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: said at the top, and then was the official story 286 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: for a while, there a meteorite, right yeah, and that's 287 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: clearly possible. I mean, eighteen thousand to eighty four thousand 288 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: meteorites that are larger than ten grams hit Earth every year. Yeah. 289 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: And then if you look at something like the Geminid 290 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: meteor shower, I mean it was in progress at the time. 291 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: Of course, astronomer Louis Winker from Penn State, he doesn't 292 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: think anything could have survived the passage through the atmosphere 293 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: to the ground, at least that would match up what 294 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: people saw at the expert incident. Right. Yeah, then there's 295 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: we'll go ahead and throw it out there. There's the 296 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: possibility of an unidentified non man made object. And this 297 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: one of the big things that people use as proof 298 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: of this is that there is proof of um secrecy, 299 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: shifting stories, official sources, contradicting one another. But again, the 300 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: big question is if there really was an extraterrestrial thing, 301 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: then how on or off Earth could it be kept 302 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: secret for so long? That's asking a lot, especially if 303 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: people already you know, especially if we have a guy 304 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: who's working on a documentary, if we have all these 305 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: other people coming forward and saying stuff, Um, yeah, you 306 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: have to wonder what what else? That is an extraordinary claim. 307 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: But there are other claims that people put a little 308 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: bit more, give a little bit more consideration too. Perhaps 309 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: what if what if this thing was a Russian satellite, 310 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: specifically the Venus Cosmos satellite. Yes, now that is an 311 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: excellent question, and that's still one of the front running theories. Uh. 312 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: There is a Soviet satellite spacecraft expert named James Oberke, 313 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: who I think we've mentioned in a couple of other 314 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: shows before. He is he is a UFO skeptic um, 315 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: but he also believes that he's also skeptical or was 316 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: for a while about this Cosmos nineties six satellite because 317 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: he said, like the timing might not match up but 318 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: later he came up with a possible explanation. He said 319 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: that the cosmos have been set to re enter the 320 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: atmosphere and crashing Canada thirteen hours before, and so that 321 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: would put it at, you know, around three in the morning. 322 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: After three in the morning. Uh. He has an interview 323 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: in Omni magazine where he says that maybe what entered 324 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: the area at that time instead was a rocket booster, 325 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: and that the probe itself fell to Earth and crashed 326 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: in Kecksburg. But this leads us down a really interesting 327 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to give a shout out too, 328 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: because the Russian and American forces at this time had 329 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: sort of a handshake agreement with you know, if some 330 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: if one of if the U S satellite falls in 331 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: something under the Russian sphere of influence. Notice I don't 332 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: just say Russia. Um, if something falls in the U. S. 333 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: Sphere of influence, then we will get it and we 334 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: will give it back to you. Um. However that is 335 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: that may not have always been the case, but it 336 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: would explain massive secrecy because the Force apparently had a 337 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: secret operation called Project moon Dust, and their purpose was 338 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: to get any foreign space probes that crashed. So their 339 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: purpose was kind of too secretly get get around this, 340 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: this uh informal agreement. I would just like, can point 341 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: something out here. I can't imagine someone from you know, 342 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: fairly middle of nowhere Kexsburg, Pennsylvania, seeing a ship that 343 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: has a bunch of cyrillic written on it might just 344 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: associate it with something that is not a I hate 345 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: to say this because it sounds like I'm saying some 346 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: of the witnesses were either not intelligent or just didn't 347 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: understand what Russian looked like. But perhaps they didn't. It 348 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: is possible. I mean, you know, a lot of people 349 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: aren't reading cyrillic as a you know, as a percentage 350 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: of our population, even today in the United States. You know, 351 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: that's why being able to read and speak Russian is 352 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: such an incredibly valuable skill. Were any foreign language really 353 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of It's true, man, a 354 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: lot of us here in the United States are not polyglots, 355 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: so me but yeah, I can imagine, or you know, 356 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: you could always say, well, what if Russia was getting 357 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: Soviet Union was getting tricky and putting hieroglyphs on their 358 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: satellites just for fun. Sure, it's yeah, it is It 359 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: is totally possible. Um. The the other thing here is 360 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: there's a possibility that it was a secret United States 361 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: project that crashed in the ground. That is so possible 362 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 1: that could happen today. Let's just go ahead and just 363 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: to depict other things that are secret that the United 364 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: States could have crashed to the ground somewhere. X thirty 365 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: seven B an unmanned spacecraft that just goes out in 366 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: space and hangs out for days. But what does it do? Ben? 367 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: You know? That is such a great it is such 368 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: a great question. Uh, Matt's Matt is buzzing my chops 369 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: a little bit because I went through a period where 370 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: I would come up to your desk pretty much every day, 371 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: and even though it was clear that neither of us 372 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: knew what the X thirty seven B was doing, I 373 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: would kind of harass both of us. I mean, it 374 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: was fun, it was a trouble shooting something that is 375 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: impossible to solve. But what what does it? Anyway, that's 376 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: the story for a different show, and hopefully that news 377 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: will come out soon. So there's another possibility that I 378 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: read about on a more more skeptical sided site, which 379 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: well we'll talk about the end. That just says, note 380 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: this Hecksburg incident, this was all the confusion. Nothing landed. 381 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: There was a Great Lakes fireball at the same time. 382 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: And then due to the problems of perception that humans 383 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: have on the ground looking the sky, that people thought 384 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: it was closer than it was, it wasn't actually anything there. 385 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know how how much 386 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: I believe that because of some later statements. So let's 387 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: go to the modern day where we meet a sharp 388 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: journalist from New York City named Leslie Keene. Leslie Keene 389 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: filed an f o I, a Freedom of Information Act 390 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: requests with NASA, and she ended up in a lawsuit 391 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: against NASA. And this was with the Sci Fi Channel. 392 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: So let's be clear about this. She had a she 393 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: had a big supporting patron behind her that enabled this 394 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: kind of uh David against Goliath thing. Uh. In December 395 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: two thousand five, NASA said that they examined metallic fragments 396 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: from this object and claimed that it was a Russian satellite, 397 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: that it really was a Russian satellite. The NASA spokesman 398 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: said that, by the way, we lost the records of this. Yeah, 399 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: we just can't find them. Yeah, yeah, we can't and 400 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: if they if they said, if this was true, then 401 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, they said they lost it in the ninety nineties. 402 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: Uh And in their in their statement they say that 403 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: what they can't track UFOs, So what they did was 404 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: to take a look at whatever did fall and give 405 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: their expert opinion, their best guess. Right, um, but the like, 406 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: we don't know how much that bears out because as 407 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: part of this work on the sci Fi show, uh 408 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: Leslie Keene had people check the orbital paths of all 409 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: known satellites and other records from the period in sixty 410 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: and the experts she had checking said that it was 411 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: absolutely impossible for any part of the Cosmos Venus probe 412 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: to have accounted for either the fireball or any object 413 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: at Kattsburg. And these experts said, furthermore, there were no 414 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: other man made satellites or other objects that re entered 415 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: the atmosphere that day, well according to the official records, 416 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: right yeah. And then speaking of records, they note people 417 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: have noted, you know the same thing, you and I 418 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: are not being here, Like, how questionable is it that 419 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: NASA could lose records? I think, you know, I think 420 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: that if it really is a Russian satellite in the 421 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: mid in the middle of the Cold War, a Russian 422 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: satellite fell to the United States, right, and now we're 423 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: decades and decades away from this event. It's strange that. 424 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Okay, Matt, I will say, maybe the records 425 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: were honestly lost, but if they were purposely lost, if 426 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: they were destroyed, Uh, what prevents NASA from saying, yeah, 427 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: we destroyed them, Like what what prevents that from coming 428 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: to light? Is their statute of limitations? Is it something 429 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: that still impacts national security? Yeah? And what happens what 430 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: are the consequences of, oh, man, we misplaced some documents. 431 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: Are there any consequences? I I can't imagine that there 432 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 1: would be any, because you know, it was a clerical 433 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: error or this happened. Yeah, that's a that's a good question, 434 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: and it it may well be that more information emerges 435 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: about this and solidifies what what we do know or 436 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: what witnesses are saying. But now it's time for us 437 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: to follow up on some of our earlier mentioned players. 438 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: What happened to John Murphy, Well, apparently he never spoke 439 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: about whatever conversation that he had with the men in 440 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: suits let's call them, um like he he just never 441 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: even talked about it to anybody that that we have 442 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: record of. After the airing of the heavily censored documentary 443 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: that he made, yeah, a few a few years after, 444 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: right nineteen exactly, he went on to vacation. He went 445 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: to Ventura, California, and unfortunately, when he was out there, 446 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,479 Speaker 1: he was killed in a hit and run accident. And 447 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: after his death, his wife, who we mentioned earlier, Bonnie Murphy, 448 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: said that her husband really did have photos of an object, 449 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: but that they were confiscated these photos. She's saying something 450 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: really did land. The state police confiscated it, and he 451 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: was threatened with grave consequences, grave enough and believable enough 452 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: at least that he was silenced on this for life. 453 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: That's very intense. I can imagine, as someone with the 454 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: family that if someone threatened my family, then you would 455 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: I would have to think very long and hard about 456 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: my you know, my moral high ground or my instincts 457 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: to want to go at for the truth for something 458 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: like this. That's scary to me. Well, it's it's a situation, 459 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, if if that kind of stuff occurs, When 460 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: that stuff kind of occurs, we know it's a situation 461 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: that is not unique that really has happened in the past, 462 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: um and not necessarily you know, with one one particular 463 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: country or one particular government or administration. Uh, this stuff 464 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: is happening today to journalists across the world from myriad reasons. 465 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: Don't report on corruption in uh was Venezuela yet And 466 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: they're they're different, There are different things. Being a journalist 467 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: is a is a very risky and stressful lifestyle, I understand. 468 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: But we do have some further reading. We've only been 469 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: able to look at I guess a little bit beneath 470 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: the surface of Cacksburg, and we want to hear from you. 471 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: Do you think this is a meteorite? Do you think 472 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: this is four in technology? And if so, how foreign? 473 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: USSR China non terrestrial? So let's go towards just to 474 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: end on some uh some further reading here. I'll start 475 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: with just the skeptical thing. We mentioned that some of 476 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: the skeptical sides had claimed this, uh, this event and 477 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: Kexburg was confused with the Great Lakes fireball, And that's 478 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: from a site called debunker dot com and they say 479 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: that the Kexburg crash itself is sensationalism and They have 480 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: some great sources if you want to check this out. 481 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: One of them they cited an issue of Sky and 482 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: Telescope magazine, where a professor of geophysics and geology named GW. 483 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: Weather Hill says the following the fireball was observed by 484 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: many people in Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and to a 485 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: lesser extent in the neighboring states. In newspaper accounts, a 486 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: great many suppose as impact sites were reported both in 487 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: southwestern Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. Fragments were claimed to have 488 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: fallen in Ohio and Michigan. These imagined happenings arose from 489 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: the impossibility of estimating the distance of an object in 490 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: the sky. Almost everyone who saw the fireball thought it 491 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: was much closer than it really was. When it disappeared 492 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: behind a house or a tree, many people thought it 493 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: had fallen only a few hundred yards beyond. And that's 494 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: that's a really important thing, because the weather Hill is 495 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: bringing up two concepts here. The first, we know it's true, 496 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: it is credibly difficult, maybe impossible, with the naked eye 497 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: to estimate the distance of an object in the sky. Uh. Secondly, 498 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: you know some people thought it was much closer and 499 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: really was. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, he's seeing nowhere 500 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: numerous possible crash sites from debris right, so not one Cacksburg, 501 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: but none who knows how many. Um this this is interesting, 502 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: but you know, of course, we want to present that 503 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: side of the argument and see what you think about it. 504 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: If you want to get some in depth information on 505 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: something that explores Kecksburg in um more of a conspiratorial 506 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: side of the story and goes into much more depth 507 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: than the mainstream TV shows, then do check out the 508 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: work of stand Gordon if you if you look at 509 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: some of his stuff, which you can find available online, 510 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: we would love to hear your views. Tell us what 511 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: you think happened on the afternoon of December nine in Kesburg, Pennsylvania, 512 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: or what didn't happen. So find us on Twitter, guys, 513 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook. We are at conspiracy stuff on 514 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: both of those. Uh, you can go to our website 515 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know dot com. We've 516 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: got all of our audio podcasts like this there. Hopefully 517 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: you're listening to this on there if you are, Thanks, 518 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: dude or lady. Oh, before we go, Ben, one more thing, 519 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: we wanted to address Oh yes, we wanted to thank 520 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: everybody who checked out our one of our recent audio 521 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 1: podcast on race and policing in the United States specifically, 522 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: and we received some great feedback on this, both in 523 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: terms of constructive criticism and in terms of valid pointers 524 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: for where to head next. One of the best points, 525 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: at least in my opinion, was that we were talking 526 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: about arrest rates and incarceration rates, but we weren't talking 527 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: about the rates of the crimes that were committed, uh, 528 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: in in the same way. So we heard this and 529 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: we would like to explore this. Uh, we're gonna look 530 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: at crime. We have some stuff that touches on it. Earlier, 531 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about militarization of police. We've talked 532 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: about the gradualization. Yeah, and we've also explored I don't 533 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: know if we've done it in this show, but some 534 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: others shows we've explored some of the problems of having 535 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: a bigger society and whether people are hardwired to only 536 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: be able to consider a couple of a smaller number 537 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: of people human beings. It's called the Dunbarns number. Was 538 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: that brain stuff? I think that was an episode you 539 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: did of brain Stuff. It was on brain Stuff. We 540 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: should also check it out there. We're going to head out. 541 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: There is another thing that we'd like to cover in 542 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: more depth later. I don't know when we'll get to it, 543 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: but that is the Brazilian version of Operation Blue Book. 544 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 1: We hope you stay tuned for that, and we hope 545 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: you check out our video coming up later on this 546 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: week is your Government building UFOs. And that's the end 547 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or 548 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: questions about this episode, you can get into contact with 549 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: us in a number of different ways. One of the 550 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: best is to give us a call. Our number is 551 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K. 552 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do that, you can send 553 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at 554 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you 555 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: to know is a production of I heart Radio. For 556 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 557 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 558 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: favorite shows.