WEBVTT - Aftersun Review (Archive) 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.360 Wednesdays are when we like to drop something from the 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:07.480 Film Spotting Archive, that massive archive that's always available to 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.840 members of the film Spotting family. Adam, We're going to 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.600 share a little bit of something from that here now. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.400 On Friday's show, we're going to announce the winner of 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.160 the twenty twenty five Golden Brick Award, our favorite film 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.440 from a new or emerging director. Today we have our 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.280 review of the twenty twenty two winner, a movie, Adam 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.760 that was our shared number one film of the year, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.560 Charlotte Wells's After Sun. 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.400 How about that that hasn't happened too often in the 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.360 history of the show where we have a joint number one. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.280 I feel like maybe X Macina and then I wasn't 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.680 officially part of the show yet, but the Tree of 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:47.160 Life are the reason Life able two. 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:51.040 I think I had X Macina at number two. Okay, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:57.280 so After Sun and Tree of Life, maybe Lovers Rock 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.240 as well twenty twenty that. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.640 Could be right, Yep, I think that's it's a rare 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:04.440 company here for After Son. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:09.400 We do adore this film connections in terms of the 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.800 Golden Brick and being our number one, but also how 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.000 about Paul Meskell and Hamnet getting so much attention as 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.320 well this award season just seemed like a perfect opportunity 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.440 to drop this one back into the feed. So from 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.559 November twenty twenty two, here is that review of After Sun. 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:30.400 You know, I want you to know that you could 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.200 talk to me about anything, whatever parties you go to, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.119 buysy meat, drugs, you. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:42.440 Take what you ass that these are oh so embarrassing embarrassing. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.920 That's from the trailer for After Sun, which opens in 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.280 limited release this weekend. It's the feature debut of Scottish 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.640 filmmaker Charlotte Wells. The film premiered at can earlier this 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.680 year and has been playing too much acclaim and too 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.400 much heartache and some tears on the festival circuit since then. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.400 Before I say more, I did want to just quickly 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.160 note Josh that we're not going to spoil anything about 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.840 this movie. Anything we talk about are elements that you 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.520 can find in every plot description of this movie and 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.560 presumably every review of this movie. You can also find 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.120 a lot of it in the trailer itself. But if 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.880 like me, up until seeing it, you've avoided knowing anything 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.280 about the film, really just knowing its father and daughter, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:29.920 and you don't know anything about the conceit of it, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.359 the structure, the formal elements, and you want to keep 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.000 it that way, then I'd say stop listening right now, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.440 skip this, because I really appreciated going into this film 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:43.160 the way I did, and we might talk about that 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.560 a little bit more here in a bit. The movie 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.360 is about a young woman's memories of a holiday she 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.040 took with her troubled father twenty years earlier. The father 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.440 is played by Paul Meskil, who we saw recently in 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.840 God's Creatures. The daughter, Sophie is played by newcomer Frankie 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.880 Corio and as a grown up by Celia Rolson Hall. 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.000 Like me, Josh, you probably knew a little bit about 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.639 the movie's reputation before seeing it. I'm sure we both 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.840 noticed some of the people we follow on letterboxed logging 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.760 it and praising it, giving it high star ratings. A 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:16.960 lot of fellow critics who caught up with it at 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.400 various festivals. We're having some pretty intense emotional responses to it. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.240 Did the movie surprise you in the way it handled 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:26.400 its emotional material? 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:32.120 Boy, this film left me stunned, And I knew that 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.840 because I try to stay through the end credits of 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.280 most movies I go to just to you know, let 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.680 that time for things to percolate, Take a break, take 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.280 a breath, you know, see what I could pick up 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.120 from the credits. If I have time, I like to 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.160 do that. I stayed through the credits of Aftersun because 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.960 I couldn't move. It was just it was speaking to 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.560 your question about the emotions. I don't think it was 0:03:55.640 --> 0:04:02.240 till that point that I realized how how moving the 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:09.640 film had been, how deceptively overwhelming it was. I felt 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.360 some of that while watching it, but I never felt 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.880 the full force of it. Some of this has to 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.119 do with the final shot, which we will not talk about, 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.120 the final scene. Really, certainly that is part of the reason. 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.640 But I think it was again the stealthy way Wells 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:32.680 has constructed this story. She's constructed it almost in the 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.159 same manner. And it's too precise for this to be 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.279 the case, but it feels like it's been constructed in 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:44.240 the same manner that the main character is experiencing her memories. 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:45.799 It's all of a piece. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:46.479 That's the trick. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.000 That's the trick, And I think that's why it hit 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:53.680 me that way, is there's this growing sense of, you know, 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.120 the emotions at play, the dynamics at play, the ones 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.479 I could relate to in some ways, the ones I 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:00.560 couldn't but could appreciate from a f and I was 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.839 invested in the way you are with most well made 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:08.080 intimate familial dramas. But yeah, this sense of just being 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.440 overwhelmed by it, that didn't hit me to the end. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.680 It's not just a matter of having a great final scene. 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.000 It's a matter of how the thing was made. From 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:21.760 frame one, frame one, This could have the best opening 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.200 scene of the year. That is interesting the first time 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.080 you're watching it and there are details I noticed that 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.240 I thought, remember that, I wonder if that's going to 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.720 that choice, that particular little visual choice is going to 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.279 come back into play, And then the movie goes on 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:41.040 and you're like, oh, yeah, everything about that first shot 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.160 was intentional in a way that is crucial to how 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.719 this film works. So this is a stunner. 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.800 Yeah, I'm with you. I tweeted after seeing it that 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.680 it can't be a first feature right because of how 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:02.160 sophisticated and mature it is visual and also emotionally. Like 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.559 you said, really from the first moment in the first 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:10.680 frame and I like your choice of words deceptively, overwhelming, stealthy. Yes, 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.760 it really does sneak up on you. It's a film 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.080 that washes over you the more you sit with it, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.920 but especially as it accumulates and it builds to that 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:24.600 final scene that you mentioned. But I say, it feels 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:26.600 like it shouldn't be or can't be, a first feature, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.680 and yet it also feels to me like a first 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:34.840 feature in one particular way. And I regret that I'm 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.080 going to say all this, and I can't share the 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.600 exact wording or all of the details. If someone out 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.400 there knows what I'm referencing and can point me in 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.440 the right direction, please do, because I've forgotten it. But 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.760 I know it's one of my or I'm pretty sure, Josh, 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.719 it's one of my two favorite writers, either Paul Oster 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.839 or John Irving wrote something at some point that has 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.640 always lingered with me about why debut novels are usually 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.360 so good and sometimes the writer's best, and I think 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.440 this can apply to albums and a lot of art. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.000 And I do want to throw out the disclaimer that 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.360 I don't want to suggest here that there aren't many 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:14.040 great films in Well's future, but the debuts are so 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.360 potent because the artist has been working towards telling this 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:23.360 story their entire lives. The next thing they do is 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.760 the build up and accumulation of a couple of years 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.280 maybe in their lives, even if it perhaps taps into 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.040 some things from their past and their personal life. But 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.000 I have seen a few things here and there, and 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.000 my senses that Charlotte Wells has been mysterious about exactly 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.080 how personal the story and events are, which I think 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.920 is great. But you can very easily see that older 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.560 Sophie in this movie trying to come to terms with 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.800 her relationship with and feelings for her father through examining 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.600 her memories. In this footage, you can see that as 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.360 a stand in for her and the filmmaking process that 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.000 resulted in this movie. You can see young Sophie then 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.800 as a stand in for her as a young girl. 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.520 And at the risk of playing armchair psychiatrist any further, 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:16.040 what is more important to understanding your own identity than 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:22.520 reckoning with everything that this character is trying to reconcile here. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.160 Surely she's been wrestling with this, if not down to 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.480 every specific detail, but the broad strokes of it. Her 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:34.400 whole life, and she's managed to manifest it here in 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.040 such a beautiful and heartbreaking way. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.600 Yeah, and that personal intimacy that has brought to the 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.640 story is crucial and a key part to why the 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.480 film is so good. But it's also something that a 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.960 lot of, you know, first time filmmakers will bring to 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.440 their material, which is understandable. One of the other things 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.720 about After Song that makes it distinct from those I 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.520 think is as we've hit at the ways she goes 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.160 about it. So I want to talk a little bit 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.480 about the different viewpoints we get in this movie. Very 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.960 early on, we do understand that Sophie as an adult, 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.800 is largely telling this or experiencing this, I should say, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.320 And we see her scouring video footage from this trip 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.400 when she was younger, when she was eleven, trying to 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.160 fully understand what happened in these couple of days. But 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.160 then Wells and the editor here, Blair McLendon, they weave 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.040 very incisively those home movie snippets we see with these 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.440 straightforward third person scenes of their time in Turkey together. 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.040 So this could just be, you know, like any other 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.400 drama we're watching, we have that distance remove we're there 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.400 with them, but it's not always from one of the 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.600 character's points of view. Yet we also get these other 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.520 scenes that very much are from young Sophie's point of view, 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:52.600 and I love the touch in so many of those 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.800 where the camera drifts a little bit away from the 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.319 father's face and it just gives us that sense again 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.840 of we don't fully have a handle and she doesn't 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.600 either of this memory or who her father was in 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:11.320 that moment, because the camera is actually doing that drifting away. 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.720 And then on top of these elements, we get these 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.320 very jarring flashes to the adult Sophie on this strobelet 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.400 dance floor, and that returns to the film's ending that 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.640 I mentioned in a shattering way. But the decision to 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.400 tell this story, to share these memories, I want to 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.920 stop saying tell this story, because that's not exact. There's 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.440 something more distinct happening here. The decision to share these 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:40.440 memories from all these different vantage points is crucial. And 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.240 then the skill again with editor here Blair McLendon, to 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.480 know just when to shift from one to the other 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.359 is for me what makes this so masterful. 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.680 Yeah, I think the use of the word drifts there 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:59.000 is really important because the way she renders. Movement is 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.480 something that really stuck with me about this film, the 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.839 attention to arms, to hands, to feet, to birds in 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.560 the sky, to parasailors, to the footage itself that we 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:14.959 sometimes see. Rewinding, we see a polaroid photo of father 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.400 and daughter begin to develop but never come fully into focus, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:24.559 a powerful visual metaphor for Well's exploration of identity and 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.760 a relationship that is just in the process of forming. 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.880 It never gets to finish everything here, even if it's 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.920 not kinetically so the camera isn't wildly moving, but everything 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.920 is in motion. She captures the fractured, fleetingness of memory, 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.120 how hard it is to reconcile something that is this 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.840 complex and is unfinished, and not just how it works, 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.720 not just how that process of reconciliation and memory works, 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.520 but how it feels. The movie gets it, how it 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.400 feels we experience it along with these characters. Really, I 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.120 think we have to say these multiple characters, and I 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:05.960 don't know what the right word to use is. Either 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.760 I want to warn people a little bit or help 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.720 them come to this film. We're talking about heartbreaking and 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.000 how heavy the movie is, but as we both said, 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.080 it's devastating in a subtle way, in a profound way, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.480 but in a subtle way. This isn't Grave of the Fireflies. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.360 This isn't a movie that's trying to punch you in 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.200 the stomach and leave you at the end feeling crushed 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.520 and hopeless. It's not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.720 still hit you in a really emotional way. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.880 Well, to go back to that image you mentioned of 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.960 the polaroid, which is a great one to call out. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.559 That's lightly held. I mean, it's when we describe it, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.839 it can sound maybe heavy and too symbolic, too metaphorical, 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.760 but it's not in the moment, in the scene how 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.720 it happens, it's very lightly held. And I'll call out 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.480 another visual detail that I think for me works the 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.840 same way, because it's a moment that's conveying a lot 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.920 of different information, some of which I won't talk about. 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:08.079 But there's a shot of the father walking towards the 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:12.360 beach at night, and it's almost surreal. We're not quite 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.160 sure what we're looking at because the screen is so dark, 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.400 but the back of Mescal's head, his skin is incredibly fair, 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.400 and so in the darkness of night, all we see 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.760 is this stretch of the back of his neck, between 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.560 his hair and the shirt he's wearing that almost glows 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.880 in the dark. And you can see how this is 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.520 working in the same way that Polarid does. Right. It's 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.559 giving us a sense of here's this man she was 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.400 trying to understand then, she's trying to understand now as 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.880 an adult, and all she gets is a little sliver, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.400 a little illuminated sliver on the screen of the larger 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.480 mystery at play here. And it's almost like every other 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.680 shot has that sort of loaded potency to it, but 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.000 also without burying it and holding it too heavily or 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.360 pushing it too hard. There's a lightness to all of this, 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.880 And I'm glad you said that there are very serious 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.600 things happening here, but there is also a lot of 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.520 lightness in the performances. I want to talk about the 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.760 performances a little bit, and this the repartee between father 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.920 and son here, because I love how they tease each 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.960 other in ways they're clearly enjoying each other's company, enjoying 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.200 this time to just have together. You get the sense 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.200 that Sophie is mostly with her mother, and so this 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.280 is a special time for them to have just together, 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.920 and you know Mescal, who is really good in God's creatures, 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.480 He's got a difficult task here to shift among these 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.560 various roles as this guy, right, he has to be 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.200 the caregiver. He's in charge, but he's a friend kind of. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:49.440 It's I get the sense that your father but also friend. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.440 If you know you don't see your child on a 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.360 daily basis, you're a mentor. You can be a mentor. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.200 But then this goes back to what you're saying in 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.160 our top five there you're also a rule enforcer, and 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.160 you can't just be a rule enforcer when you feel 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.080 like it. That's got to be part of your identity. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.120 So I do think mes call manages to even though 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.760 he's playing a person who is purposely supposed to be 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.440 at a remove, we get a sense of him wrestling 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.440 with all of those roles. And then choreo. You know 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:21.000 you need you need an unconsciousness in a child performance, 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.720 and she has that. But this kid in particular for 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.120 where she is at life, that crucial stage around eleven 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.280 where you're The way I put it when I wrote 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.240 about the movie is that you know you might not 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.040 want to hold your parent's hand anymore. You just make 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:39.520 that decision. She also needs a self awareness and that's 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.200 crucial to this role. I think Coreo, even as a novice, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.080 has that. And again, just so many fun scenes of 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.120 them together, sparring with each other, teasing each other, caring 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:53.360 for each other in ways that gain importance as the 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:54.200 movie proceeds. 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.240 Yeah, I'll talk about one of those moments, though, I 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.760 am going to say I'm going to save my favorite 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.680 Mescal moment in the film, what I think is his 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.000 best acting moment in the film, And there are many 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.720 to choose from, because I'm pretty sure we're going to 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.320 talk about him in this movie more is we get 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.720 through the end of the year, but we go back 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.560 to our top five list, and I was talking about 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.840 Say Anything. I don't know that Charlotte Wells was actually 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.720 paying homage to that film or not, but there's a 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:22.480 moment we heard it in the clip from the trailer 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.120 where he says to her, you can tell me about anything, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.760 whatever you do, anything you get involved in, you can 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.080 always tell me that. And she, of course thinks he's 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.640 being a little bit silly because those are things she 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.760 might want to keep private, or are things that she's 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.120 not ready to think about yet or is just starting 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.800 to at her age think about The movie's very much 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.560 about that as well, just crossing that threshold into adulthood, 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:49.120 whether you're fully ready or not. But the difference here, 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.240 the significant difference here between something like say anything and 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.160 this dynamic between these two, is that that line's coming 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:02.160 from a father who absolutely means it. Because of his depression, 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.320 I think we can say, I think the movie clearly 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.960 suggests it without explicitly stating it, he'll never be able 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.920 to reciprocate that honesty. And what I mean is that 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:17.800 what he's feeling and experiencing isn't something he or really 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:24.800 anybody can articulate. She actually expresses it in a really powerful, 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.480 haunting way in the film, and again this is in 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.680 the trailer as well, but in a later part of it, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.560 Sophie says, as she's just kind of laying on the 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.960 bed and he asks her what's up or what she's feeling? 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.480 Oh man, she says, don't you ever feel like you've 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.680 just done a whole amazing day and then you come 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.640 home and feel tired and down and feels like your 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.520 bones don't work, They're just tired, and everything is tired, 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.280 Like you're sinking. I don't know. It's weird, ye, and 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.320 it's haunting, as I said, because of the beat that 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.399 Wells takes there, the look of recognition on Mescal's face, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.600 it all suggests that she's describing exactly what he often feels. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.560 And also if she's feeling it, Josh in that moment. 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.480 The movie doesn't dwell on it, but you have to 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.280 contemplate it as a viewer. What if she is inclined 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.320 towards the same type of depression that he is? 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.200 Well, that's so yeah, right. 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:21.399 So Mescal's processing two troubling thoughts at once, but he 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.840 has to keep up the facade, which is what you 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.800 have to do as a parent. And all he can 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:28.840 say is what he says, Well, we're here to have 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.400 a good time, and he tries to change the subject 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:32.560 even though he can't. 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.879 And can I since we're talking about that scene in detail, 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.640 can I just I'll mention the thing that just shatters 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.600 me about it is So she's on the bed as 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.840 you described, he's in the bathroom, so they don't see 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.320 each other at this point. He's brushing his teeth and 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.840 I believe after she finishes saying that his reaction is 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:53.680 a pause, and he spits the toothpaste at the mirror, 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.919 essentially at himself, and it's just it's capturing everything you 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.359 just said about the questions he's asking him self, the 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.719 anger he feels about that, the fear he's feeling, and 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:10.520 then yeah, that that choice to push it away and say, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.439 you know, and you can understand that choice. You know, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.399 you might want to the therapist might say, what a 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.480 teachable moment or something, you know, to have a talk 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.800 about what you're going through, and you might have these 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.200 feelings too, and here's how. But this isn't a guy 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.359 in that place, right, He is not in that place, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.000 and so his choice he makes, which is completely understandable, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.320 is to push through and try to find that happiness. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.199 And yeah, we've danced a little lightly around this, but 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.600 I think this is you know, the major thing that 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.679 the movie is exploring is alongside her coming of age 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.240 as an independent person, not a little girl who loves 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.840 her dad as much in the same way, but in 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.239 a different way. This is about a girl who is 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.919 learning things about adulthood, including her father's struggle to survive it. 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:05.240 And that's something that is terrifying, you know, from her perspective, 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.639 and I think the movie captures that in incredible ways. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.720 Let's just go back real quick to what I touched 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.840 on in the setup, and I want your thoughts on it. 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.440 And there's no real point here, I suppose, other than 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.040 maybe I'm critiquing a little bit the way the movie 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:26.000 is being marketed or positioned, which is irrelevant. But every 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.840 description of this film, as I said, and the trailer 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.639 tells you what the framing device is, tells you that 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.320 this is about a person who's reflecting on an experience. 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.240 But if you just went into the movie, other than 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.760 picking up on some things very early on that you 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.919 really have to be paying attention to, you wouldn't know 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.719 that you would be watching a film that is about 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.879 a father and daughter on vacation and this coming of 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.359 age story that it is ninety five percent of the 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.840 screen time roughly. Is that? So it wouldn't be an 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.200 accurate to just describe this film as something like Sophie 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:08.320 and her father learn important things about themselves and life 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.720 while on vacation together, whatever it is, and just leave 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:15.639 it at that. I enjoyed being a little bit confused. 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.960 I enjoyed being challenged by the strobe light inserts by 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.560 the playing back of footage, the replaying of moments, the 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.600 reflections in TVs, the visual connections the movie makes between 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.600 Sophie and someone older that the movie hasn't introduced us 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.359 to yet. If I've read the plot description, I know 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.960 what that all signifies. I think this isn't two thousand 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:36.920 and one. It's not Mulholland Drive. I don't want to 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:41.480 suggest that Wells doesn't give you really everything you need 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.160 to process what is playing out, But I loved having 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.640 to do a little bit of work myself and engage 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:51.040 with it that way, versus knowing the conceit going in. 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.840 I'm just bummed out that most people are probably going 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:56.560 to walk in knowing all that. 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.000 Yeah, I think that's its master stroke. Is the subtle, 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:03.000 artful you know, it's piercing but never pointed, is the 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:07.920 way I describe it. In exploring the father's troubled inner state, 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:10.680 and you said, you know, for me, I think you're 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.920 probably right. You know, the vast percentage, whether it's ninety 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.639 five percent or whatever, is exploring just you know, this 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:23.400 time in this relationship, but that interstate is seeping into 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:29.679 every percent. Yes, And that is how that's what you 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.640 feel and what makes after Son distinct. 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.960 After Son is currently playing in limited release. If you 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.040