WEBVTT - Ep 371: A Healthy State Of Panic ft. Farnoosh Torabi 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:11.560 Why don't always forget our what is our damn opening? Hey? 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.440 You know that's Tiffany find bad so I always forget, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.000 you know, My memory is like yo, okay, wait wait 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:24.480 oh yeah, okay, hey, hey hey we're back. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:25.520 We're black. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:30.200 We're extra brown today in the studio. AMBI should ambition, 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.440 AMBI should ambition, ambition. We're back in a studio. Well, 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.640 the stew Manny's still out with the bibby, but we 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.120 have some extra brown in the studio today. Actually, one 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.640 of the first brown people that've ever seen in personal finance. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.800 I remember I was like a fan, a fan far 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.440 news to hobbies in the studio. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.840 Oh my gosh, I am beyond honored, tiff Do you 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.400 know do you remember when we first met? 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.520 I do, girl, because I was sweating you so hard. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.160 I was like, my god, hild I was like. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.560 You were over our bread and butter. We were eating 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.080 like bread and butter, ice ice water. It was a't 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.760 some dinner at finn Con and we had just luck 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:12.760 would have it. We were seated next to each other 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:14.880 and I was just blown away by you because you 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.560 were like, I'm a preschool teacher right now, but wait, wait, world, 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.560 I have a plan. I'm gonna help millions of women 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:22.720 get out of debt, make money, get rich. I was 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.280 like wow, but. 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.760 I remember it was funny because like I remember, it 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.720 was like I'm not gonna say her name because we're 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:30.920 cool now, but I just have I was mad at 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.720 her for years for this because initially your seat was 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.639 someplace else, like you were sitting someplace else. Oh, and 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:38.560 I wanted to sit next to you because I was like, 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.000 oh my god, I want to say it's for news. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:41.520 I talked to her at this event, but then the 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.040 other person like moved my stuff and sat in the seat, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.400 assuming that you were going to come back and sit 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.920 in your seat. And I remember I was like, oh 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.800 my god, so much trauma. You have the scene and 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:53.640 I was like no, So then I sat at the 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.560 other table like and I was just like, oh, I 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:57.240 guess I was just. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.960 Know the universe, yes found us. It was like, no, 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:02.640 that's like my plan. 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:04.600 And then you end up sitting next to me. And 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.480 I looked at the lady like, eh, no, she's not 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.120 a cool now, so I want to call her name out. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.000 But but I just remember, like, yes, we had some teeth. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.920 I know, we had like the best conversation and you 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.240 were just like so gracious and honestly you were just 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.640 an example of like, wow, this thing can be bigger 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.880 than well one. You can be brown in this space, 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:27.320 you could be a woman in this space. You could 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.200 be yourself in the space, and it could be bigger 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.480 than you know, like just like what was possible. I mean, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.799 you've had your own shows, you you know, your podcast 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.880 So Money is huge. Some of y'all forgot I'm just 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.480 talking for a newss Like like, I'm like, wait, let 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:43.160 me int to do that. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:45.839 Everybody who the F I am? 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.960 So I'm like, hey girl, So anyway for news? So 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.800 I'm saying it right to Robbie right, yes, yes, yes, okay. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.160 She's one of America's the leading personal financial authorities, hooked 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.960 on helping you live your richest and happiest life. She's 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.040 a multi best selling financial author former She's a former 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.440 CNBC host and creator of the Webby nominated podcast So Money, 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.840 which I have been on. Yes, she has become one 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.240 of the country's favorite go to money experts. The New 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.920 York Times calls her advice perfectly practical and you already 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.040 know you know they may know what they say and whatever. 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.560 They're really good to the literation that New York Times. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:25.600 Let Me Tell You So. 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.600 Farnus's award winning, critically acclaimed podcast, So Money, has surpassed 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:34.320 twenty five million downloads thanks to one of her kind 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.960 interviews and deep conversations about money. On the show Spotlights. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:42.320 She spotlights leading experts, authors, and influencers from Arianna Huffington 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.640 to Margaret Chow, Queen Latifah, You Got Queen Latifah and 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.120 I Love her and Tim Gunn and me about their 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:53.080 financial perspectives, money failures, and habits. She also answers listeners 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.360 personal financial questions each week, and she has a new 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.960 book coming out called A Healthy State of Panic, which 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.480 if you could have seen us before we got all, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.680 we were both running a little raggedy and crazy and 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.160 so welcome to the podcast for news. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.480 Thank you, Thank you so much, Tiffany. What a full 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:15.520 circle moment for me. Yeah, I'm I'm just excited to 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.480 be sharing the stage with you, the spotlight with you. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.040 It's been amazing watching you help so many people, make 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.520 such differences in people's lives. And thank you so much 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.640 for endorsing A Healthy State of Panic, one of the 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.800 first to get their hands on it and say, yes, yes, world, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:34.520 let's let's read this. But you know how hard is 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.120 to sell a book. You know, I got you and 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:43.520 Margaret cho and Kelly Rippa and maz Ja Brownie for 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.960 those of you who don't know, he's an Iranian comedian 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.680 and actor. I was blessed to have this sort of 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.159 early praise for the book and just excited to share 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:53.200 it with your audience. Now. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.440 Yeah, well if you can't say, oh, like Forarnuci is 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.279 not just like this dope, badass financial educator. She's my 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.240 friend friend. We're dinner, like what's that? Didn't know that 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.880 was lunch at that? Like? What was that place? 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:10.200 For? My husband calls it fubu, you know that's it's 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:18.200 like boo, I studied friendshop. I should know this. It's 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.440 got a lot more letters than what it sounds like. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.160 But it's a lovely, amazing my favorite restaurant in Montclair. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.360 You know, they tried to open up during the pandemic 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.480 and they couldn't and now it's just like blowing up 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.280 and it's it's wonderful. We went there, you and I I. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:37.440 Was like so yummy and so yeah, I so first, Sharah, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.640 how did you get into this space? Like, you know, 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:41.440 was it because you know, like I said, I was 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.840 a preschool teacher. But how did you get into the 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:44.880 personal finance space? 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.839 Well, two things I think were the tailwinds. I will 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.120 start with the earlier, uh I think piece of the story, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.760 which is that I'm the daughter of immigrants from Iran. 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.560 And I mean, you know, I don't care where your 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.520 parents are from. If you're a daughter or a son 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.240 of immigrants in America, you're going to be somebody. Like 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.640 it's inevitable, something will happen. You will make it happen. 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:12.040 I think that one thing that was culturally unique for 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.599 us in our home was that we talked about money 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.560 a lot, the good and the bad. As I write 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.840 in my book, a healthy state of panic, like the 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.280 fear of money was instilled in me early, and learning 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.960 to have a relationship with money was instilled in me early. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.640 So when I think about when I get afraid of money, 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.279 what does it sound like? What does it taste like? 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.120 What does it smell like, it's like fists banging on 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.600 a laminate kitchen table. Because my parents argued about money 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:42.080 a lot. Also though they laughed about money, and they 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.440 enjoyed money, and they worked hard for their money. So 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.359 I got to see all these dimensions around money. But 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.320 I will be dishonest if I said that this relationship 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.560 that I have with money isn't sometimes fear based. But 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.400 it's good because it's helped me really figure out what 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.320 my money narrative is, what I want in my financial relationship. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.760 It's for helping recognize some of the myths that I've 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.720 held onto about money and those myths that have gotten 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.600 in my way sometimes in the early stages. So I 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.280 credit my upbringing for giving me really a mature relationship 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.280 and an emotional relationship with money that I don't think 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.520 anybody really gets growing up, let alone the literacy, but 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:24.560 the actual having that emotional strength around money. And then 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.640 fast forward, I studied finance in college. I went to 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:32.320 journalism school, got my master's in journalisms, and very early 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.560 on knew that I was interested in telling financial stories 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.000 and I wasn't interested in doing Excel spreadsheet work, Like 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:40.760 I didn't want to go work for a bank, which 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.120 is what a lot of my classmates did. You know, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.280 with a finance degree, that's a natural progression. But I 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:47.720 was the crazy one who was like I want to 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.000 make a lot less money, and I want to write 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.920 articles and tell stories about money. But I think my 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.160 sense of business and sales spirit that I got in 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.520 college and working a lot carried with me into the 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.640 work of journalism, which they don't teach you in journalism schools, 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.920 like how to be entrepreneurial in this space, how to 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.960 really have ownership in your with your content, at least 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.080 not when I was starting out, and so fast forward. 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.600 I mean, it's I guess it's no coincidence that I 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.320 am or I am, But it's not like I grew 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.120 up going, oh, I can't wait to one day have 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.160 a financial podcast. You know, that's not really what a 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.520 four year old goes around thinking. But I knew that 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.840 I wanted to be in service. I knew that I 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.200 wanted to help people, and I knew that I wasn't 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.920 uncomfortable about money around money. I didn't think that was taboo, 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:35.839 and I knew that was special, so I ran with it. 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.880 Yeah, I love that, And so I mean, you made 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.400 this transition to like being visible, Like was that really weird? 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.640 Because there were like very few women, let alone women 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.640 of color, you know, who were like visible on TV. 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.040 I remember you had I remember vaguely, like I think, 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.120 I don't know if you're you had a show. You 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:56.760 had like a couple of shows, but I remember one 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.920 like the set was like red. Was that called So Money? 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.360 I can't remember. But then you had this other show 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.040 when you were like interviewing like billionaires, like oh, private jets, 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.480 like you had so many different lives in this personal 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:10.719 Oh my gosh. 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.240 People, you know, it's funny. People be like, oh my god, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.480 you have a podcast. That's amazing. I'm like, I have 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.560 been around so long, Like you don't even know the 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.080 rest of it. That's good. I guess. I guess I've 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.680 been using some good skincare all these years and they 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.520 stay out of the sun. But like, I mean, I 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.080 remember being at a press conference for that show that 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.000 you're referring to, was for CNBC called Follow the Leader. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.080 It was such an incredible opportunity. It was I've had 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.760 a lot of these one hit wonders in the television world. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:40.080 You know. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:45.400 It's like before streaming, before before even really like the 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.320 social media world took off and you could have your 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.760 own show on your own TikTok or Instagram, like you 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.560 had the powers that be were the studios and the 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.600 networks and these like you know, you really it was 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.240 really hard to make a show fly. And so I 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:03.000 got this opportunity with CNBC to follow billionaires and mega 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.160 CEOs who were like CEOs slash rock stars, you know, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.400 and just be flats on the wall, be a fly 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.520 on the wall, get to learn, you know, what was 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.920 the secret to their success. And it was very exciting. 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.400 I had to go on lots of private planes and 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.040 eat like a lot of fancy food, and it was 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.640 it was one for the books, but we didn't get renewed. 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.360 I remember going to the press conference for that show 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.920 and a journalist stood up and he said, I remember 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.400 you when you were like, you know, you were like 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.440 writing for am New York which audience that is a 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.800 free subway newspaper that is distributed widely in New York City, 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.040 and I had a byline. I mean I got more 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.680 recognition from that sometimes and anything because I had my 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.360 picture in my byline. And when you're on the subway 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.520 and you're reading a you know, it's like a captive audience. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.560 I remember going to a Banana Republic and showing my 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.240 ID and the woman was like, are you the fernish 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.640 truby that writes me, I am New York. I'm like, well, 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:06.199 I also have a book, which clearly you have not read. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.480 But yes, that is me. Now can I get the discount? 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:09.760 You know. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.120 This this entitle me to some sort of discount. Yeah, but 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.720 I have I've done. I've had the privilege of having 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.679 so many different experiences, and I think I really went 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.200 after that, you know, I want I'm I get bored easily. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.240 I don't know about you. I don't think I have ADHD. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.360 My son does. And I've talked about that a lot. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.559 If they say it runs in the family, who knows. 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.800 Maybe I have it and I have never been tested. 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.200 But I'm just somebody who get I don't idle. Well, 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.560 I need a lot of variety. I like appetizers. I 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.920 cannot commit to an entree, Tiffany, I need like three appetizers. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:45.120 Can I have some of yours? 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:45.480 You know? 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.360 And So this idea that I was going to pursue 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.920 journalism and just be a writer, or just be a 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:57.080 radio host, or just do television frightened me. Speaking of 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.720 panic and healthy fear, and I think it led me 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.280 to try to design a life and a career that 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.800 allowed me to try and do a lot of things 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.640 and not everything sticks, but at least you have fun trying. 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:10.600 I was going to ask you, is that how you 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.600 got to your book? Because first of all, what number 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:13.440 book are you on now? 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:14.160 For? 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.360 Wow? So is that how you got to this book 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.040 Healthy State of Panic? Like, because you're just like, because 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.720 you have this super successful podcast that's doing really well, 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.480 so money, you know, you speak, I know you do 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.480 like brand partnerships, and then you've added this other because 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.120 I know how hard I want to write a book 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.480 than to to market it to sell it. So is 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.360 that why you've written A Healthy State of Panic? Because 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.840 you're like, I have something else to say, and like, 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:39.560 I'm not quite busy. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.760 Enough right, Oh my gosh, I don't. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:44.040 I think. 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.880 So, this has been nine years since I've published a book. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.480 I think because I needed the time to recover from 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.079 the last book launch. As you know, it's a lot 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.959 of work. And I think if the genesis of this 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.319 book again, I think goes back to my upbringing as 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.560 a little girl who was raised in an immigrant family. Terrified. 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.560 I was a terrified little girl, Tiffany, my mother even 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.000 will say I did that on purpose. I raised you 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.880 to be afraid on purpose, because let's remember my mother, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.079 she's nineteen when she had me, doesn't speak the language, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:20.760 isn't familiar with the culture, newly married, newly apparent living 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.040 in Worcestern, Massachusetts, which at the time and still was, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.280 you know, known for a lot of just five o'clock 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.880 news crime, you know, like break ins and theft and kidnappings. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.040 It was the eighties, right, So she was scared and 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:39.240 she channeled that into her daughter me. And so I 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.520 was afraid of strangers and eating other people's snacks because 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.520 she told me they had poison in them. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:47.040 Right. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.200 I was afraid of being abandoned. I was afraid of 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.240 like getting lost at the mall. I was afraid of 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.200 being home alone. And so the fear wasn't always a friend, 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.440 Like it got me into a lot of comical mischief 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.400 and you know, backfired. But I will say that I 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:07.199 had an early kind of developmental relationship with fear, and 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.560 it transpired to the point where even as I was 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.600 a young adult, I wouldn't say that I had mastered 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.400 my fears. I was still like letting fear as it does, 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.560 take me for a ride. And I was allowing it 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.040 to block me from opportunities and realizing my real potential. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.040 So I had to, like a lot of a young adults, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.920 sort of like retrain and reparent yourself, but not abandoning 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.080 the fear, saying, Okay, fear keeps showing up, I cannot 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.640 be this fearless person. So maybe there is a way 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:41.240 to work with fear, to listen to fear, to appreciate fear, 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.920 to honor fear, to then be able to make the 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:48.920 decisions that matter at life's crossroads. And I wanted to 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.000 write a book. Like with all of my books, I 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.040 feel like I want to say something that's new, that's different, 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.760 that's also capturing the zeitgeist. Like my last book was 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.200 about female breadwinners and what happens when you make more 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.920 in your hetero relationship as a woman, and that was 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:04.880 very taboo back then. We talk about it now, but 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.800 it was like really really under wraps into in the 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.080 early two thousands, and I was living that reality, and 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.120 I was like, this is a great book topic, because 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.240 when nobody wants to talk about something, that's when you 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.720 know you have a good idea fast forward. I was like, Okay, 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.480 right now in our world, we're dealing with still a 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.720 lot of big financial conundrums, but also at the intersection 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:29.280 of mental health and mental wellness. And year after year, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:30.960 day after day, there was like all these books about 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.600 being fearless, and I felt like we were not appreciating 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.560 fear in our culture in the way that I have 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.760 that I've learned to really embrace. And so A healthy 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:43.840 state of panic is a book that's going to help 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.880 anybody out there like me who has gone through life 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.040 realizing that fear just doesn't go away. This idea of 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.880 being fearless that is not working. So my offer is 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.200 what if we actually when fear shows up, we look 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.320 at it, We ask it questions, We say, Okay, why 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.600 are you here? Sometimes fear is there to help us, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.640 It doesn't want to derail us. We allow it. But 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.960 I think that we can have agency here now that 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.320 we're adults, and we can say, okay, fear, what you 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.280 got for me? And I have done this over and 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.440 over again in my life, whether it's when making big 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.400 high stakes financial decisions, career choices, decisions about who to marry, 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.720 who to not marry, raising my kids, being good to myself. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.520 I think that fear when we listen to it, like 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.280 all emotions. All emotions are valid. Fear too. There was 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.920 actually a study this year because they probably knew how 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.400 a book coming out, but a bunch of scientists got 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.680 together and they were like, you know what, they looked 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.320 at all these sort of like bad emotions that we 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.640 have branded bad. They're not really bad, but we just 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.200 as a culture have decided that things like fear, sadness, 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:56.160 and anger, we don't want anything to do with them. Happiness, joy, laughter, 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.600 let's all focus on that. But those feelings, those that 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.320 we have breed bad. So they did a study and 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.960 they've said that those they found that those who perceive 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:09.000 actually fear and anger and said is as bad or problematic, 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.959 are unhappier than those of us who accept these emotions 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.160 even just as neutral. And I would go a step 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.879 further and say, no, these these emotions actually have wisdom, 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.560 and we should listen to them and honor them, because 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.240 when we do, we are honoring ourselves. Fear for me 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.040 is very personal for you, Tiffany, It's different when it 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.119 shows up, it's for different reasons, and so wouldn't you 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:35.840 want to explore that. I just feel like when we 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.040 get closer to how we feel. We get closer to 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.360 who we are and what our values are. And that's 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.679 the offering in this book. It's it's looking at money 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.720 and work and all these really big, big, big moves 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.400 that we make in our lives through the lens of 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.639 your fears. And you know, I think it can be 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.200 funny sometimes. I hope. I don't want this to be 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.000 a serious book, you know, like it's not. It's not 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.760 meant to be too too, too too serious. I want 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.359 people to be on it, to be approachable, because a 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.600 book about fear can be scary, yes, overwhelming. 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.760 Yeah, these big like because you're right, like you know, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.680 like even in grief. This is one thing I learned 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.080 from my therapist. She was like, grief, even with grief, 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.680 it brings gifts, she calls them, like the gifts of grief. Yes, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.239 you know, so much clarity, just like you know, like 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.840 is that what I really want to do? Is this? 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.639 You know, is this direction? I want to go to? 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.920 Same thing with fear, right, because fear is an indicator, 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.280 Like wait, this is like you're something internally is saying 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.000 pay attention, pay attention, pay attention. You know, like if 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.480 I'm feeling this way, maybe you know that's actually it's 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.000 because that's I don't want to become. Like I remember 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.800 after graduating, I was going to graduate college and I 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.560 was really afraid of graduating college. It's because what I 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.800 had lined up this boring. I had done this internship 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.680 which was so boring, and they'd offer me a job 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.840 and I was like, okay, even though I hated it. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.680 I used to cry every day. So I was afraid 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.320 to graduate. And because I dove into that fear, what 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.680 I was really saying was I don't want the life 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.800 I've got lined up because I don't want to work there. 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.480 But I know that my parents will be like, oh, 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.320 that's so good, you know, And I just remember, like 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.800 I quietly, you know, declined and decided. I accepted a 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.840 job at a local daycare center. And I did not 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:24.520 tell my parents because it was like telling them I've 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.760 decided to become a drug dealer. Especially with immigrant parents 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.160 are like, we did it work so hot for you too? 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:32.080 Yes? 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.240 Oh my god, I can see I can see how 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.920 fear really it's like a it's a mechanism that you 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.760 can use to say, wait, what am I actually really saying? 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.720 You know, Like, and I think with your story, Tiffany, 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:46.919 I think what you were What I try to do 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.320 in the book is try to distill the fear even further. 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.080 So there's nine chapters and each chapter is dedicated to 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.639 a kind of fear because well, we typically what we 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.359 tend to do in our culture is were like fear 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:02.400 four letter word monolith. Fear has many brands and flavors. 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.320 Fear of failure is I think what you were probably 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.760 experiencing in that moment, this idea that you were going 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.240 to take on this opportunity. And although all the the 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.919 you know, everybody was excited for you, but like you personally, 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:17.480