Speaker 1: Why don't always forget our what is our damn opening? Hey?
Speaker 1: You know that's Tiffany find bad so I always forget,
Speaker 1: you know, My memory is like yo, okay, wait wait
Speaker 1: oh yeah, okay, hey, hey hey we're back.
Speaker 2: We're black.
Speaker 1: We're extra brown today in the studio. AMBI should ambition,
Speaker 1: AMBI should ambition, ambition. We're back in a studio. Well,
Speaker 1: the stew Manny's still out with the bibby, but we
Speaker 1: have some extra brown in the studio today. Actually, one
Speaker 1: of the first brown people that've ever seen in personal finance.
Speaker 1: I remember I was like a fan, a fan far
Speaker 1: news to hobbies in the studio.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I am beyond honored, tiff Do you
Speaker 2: know do you remember when we first met?
Speaker 1: I do, girl, because I was sweating you so hard.
Speaker 1: I was like, my god, hild I was like.
Speaker 2: You were over our bread and butter. We were eating
Speaker 2: like bread and butter, ice ice water. It was a't
Speaker 2: some dinner at finn Con and we had just luck
Speaker 2: would have it. We were seated next to each other
Speaker 2: and I was just blown away by you because you
Speaker 2: were like, I'm a preschool teacher right now, but wait, wait, world,
Speaker 2: I have a plan. I'm gonna help millions of women
Speaker 2: get out of debt, make money, get rich. I was
Speaker 2: like wow, but.
Speaker 1: I remember it was funny because like I remember, it
Speaker 1: was like I'm not gonna say her name because we're
Speaker 1: cool now, but I just have I was mad at
Speaker 1: her for years for this because initially your seat was
Speaker 1: someplace else, like you were sitting someplace else. Oh, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit next to you because I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I want to say it's for news.
Speaker 1: I talked to her at this event, but then the
Speaker 1: other person like moved my stuff and sat in the seat,
Speaker 1: assuming that you were going to come back and sit
Speaker 1: in your seat. And I remember I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, so much trauma. You have the scene and
Speaker 1: I was like no, So then I sat at the
Speaker 1: other table like and I was just like, oh, I
Speaker 1: guess I was just.
Speaker 2: Know the universe, yes found us. It was like, no,
Speaker 2: that's like my plan.
Speaker 1: And then you end up sitting next to me. And
Speaker 1: I looked at the lady like, eh, no, she's not
Speaker 1: a cool now, so I want to call her name out.
Speaker 1: But but I just remember, like, yes, we had some teeth.
Speaker 1: I know, we had like the best conversation and you
Speaker 1: were just like so gracious and honestly you were just
Speaker 1: an example of like, wow, this thing can be bigger
Speaker 1: than well one. You can be brown in this space,
Speaker 1: you could be a woman in this space. You could
Speaker 1: be yourself in the space, and it could be bigger
Speaker 1: than you know, like just like what was possible. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've had your own shows, you you know, your podcast
Speaker 1: So Money is huge. Some of y'all forgot I'm just
Speaker 1: talking for a newss Like like, I'm like, wait, let
Speaker 1: me int to do that.
Speaker 2: Everybody who the F I am?
Speaker 1: So I'm like, hey girl, So anyway for news? So
Speaker 1: I'm saying it right to Robbie right, yes, yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: She's one of America's the leading personal financial authorities, hooked
Speaker 1: on helping you live your richest and happiest life. She's
Speaker 1: a multi best selling financial author former She's a former
Speaker 1: CNBC host and creator of the Webby nominated podcast So Money,
Speaker 1: which I have been on. Yes, she has become one
Speaker 1: of the country's favorite go to money experts. The New
Speaker 1: York Times calls her advice perfectly practical and you already
Speaker 1: know you know they may know what they say and whatever.
Speaker 2: They're really good to the literation that New York Times.
Speaker 2: Let Me Tell You So.
Speaker 1: Farnus's award winning, critically acclaimed podcast, So Money, has surpassed
Speaker 1: twenty five million downloads thanks to one of her kind
Speaker 1: interviews and deep conversations about money. On the show Spotlights.
Speaker 1: She spotlights leading experts, authors, and influencers from Arianna Huffington
Speaker 1: to Margaret Chow, Queen Latifah, You Got Queen Latifah and
Speaker 1: I Love her and Tim Gunn and me about their
Speaker 1: financial perspectives, money failures, and habits. She also answers listeners
Speaker 1: personal financial questions each week, and she has a new
Speaker 1: book coming out called A Healthy State of Panic, which
Speaker 1: if you could have seen us before we got all,
Speaker 1: we were both running a little raggedy and crazy and
Speaker 1: so welcome to the podcast for news.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much, Tiffany. What a full
Speaker 2: circle moment for me. Yeah, I'm I'm just excited to
Speaker 2: be sharing the stage with you, the spotlight with you.
Speaker 2: It's been amazing watching you help so many people, make
Speaker 2: such differences in people's lives. And thank you so much
Speaker 2: for endorsing A Healthy State of Panic, one of the
Speaker 2: first to get their hands on it and say, yes, yes, world,
Speaker 2: let's let's read this. But you know how hard is
Speaker 2: to sell a book. You know, I got you and
Speaker 2: Margaret cho and Kelly Rippa and maz Ja Brownie for
Speaker 2: those of you who don't know, he's an Iranian comedian
Speaker 2: and actor. I was blessed to have this sort of
Speaker 2: early praise for the book and just excited to share
Speaker 2: it with your audience. Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well if you can't say, oh, like Forarnuci is
Speaker 1: not just like this dope, badass financial educator. She's my
Speaker 1: friend friend. We're dinner, like what's that? Didn't know that
Speaker 1: was lunch at that? Like? What was that place?
Speaker 2: For? My husband calls it fubu, you know that's it's
Speaker 2: like boo, I studied friendshop. I should know this. It's
Speaker 2: got a lot more letters than what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: But it's a lovely, amazing my favorite restaurant in Montclair.
Speaker 2: You know, they tried to open up during the pandemic
Speaker 2: and they couldn't and now it's just like blowing up
Speaker 2: and it's it's wonderful. We went there, you and I I.
Speaker 1: Was like so yummy and so yeah, I so first, Sharah,
Speaker 1: how did you get into this space? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: was it because you know, like I said, I was
Speaker 1: a preschool teacher. But how did you get into the
Speaker 1: personal finance space?
Speaker 2: Well, two things I think were the tailwinds. I will
Speaker 2: start with the earlier, uh I think piece of the story,
Speaker 2: which is that I'm the daughter of immigrants from Iran.
Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, I don't care where your
Speaker 2: parents are from. If you're a daughter or a son
Speaker 2: of immigrants in America, you're going to be somebody. Like
Speaker 2: it's inevitable, something will happen. You will make it happen.
Speaker 2: I think that one thing that was culturally unique for
Speaker 2: us in our home was that we talked about money
Speaker 2: a lot, the good and the bad. As I write
Speaker 2: in my book, a healthy state of panic, like the
Speaker 2: fear of money was instilled in me early, and learning
Speaker 2: to have a relationship with money was instilled in me early.
Speaker 2: So when I think about when I get afraid of money,
Speaker 2: what does it sound like? What does it taste like?
Speaker 2: What does it smell like, it's like fists banging on
Speaker 2: a laminate kitchen table. Because my parents argued about money
Speaker 2: a lot. Also though they laughed about money, and they
Speaker 2: enjoyed money, and they worked hard for their money. So
Speaker 2: I got to see all these dimensions around money. But
Speaker 2: I will be dishonest if I said that this relationship
Speaker 2: that I have with money isn't sometimes fear based. But
Speaker 2: it's good because it's helped me really figure out what
Speaker 2: my money narrative is, what I want in my financial relationship.
Speaker 2: It's for helping recognize some of the myths that I've
Speaker 2: held onto about money and those myths that have gotten
Speaker 2: in my way sometimes in the early stages. So I
Speaker 2: credit my upbringing for giving me really a mature relationship
Speaker 2: and an emotional relationship with money that I don't think
Speaker 2: anybody really gets growing up, let alone the literacy, but
Speaker 2: the actual having that emotional strength around money. And then
Speaker 2: fast forward, I studied finance in college. I went to
Speaker 2: journalism school, got my master's in journalisms, and very early
Speaker 2: on knew that I was interested in telling financial stories
Speaker 2: and I wasn't interested in doing Excel spreadsheet work, Like
Speaker 2: I didn't want to go work for a bank, which
Speaker 2: is what a lot of my classmates did. You know,
Speaker 2: with a finance degree, that's a natural progression. But I
Speaker 2: was the crazy one who was like I want to
Speaker 2: make a lot less money, and I want to write
Speaker 2: articles and tell stories about money. But I think my
Speaker 2: sense of business and sales spirit that I got in
Speaker 2: college and working a lot carried with me into the
Speaker 2: work of journalism, which they don't teach you in journalism schools,
Speaker 2: like how to be entrepreneurial in this space, how to
Speaker 2: really have ownership in your with your content, at least
Speaker 2: not when I was starting out, and so fast forward.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I guess it's no coincidence that I
Speaker 2: am or I am, But it's not like I grew
Speaker 2: up going, oh, I can't wait to one day have
Speaker 2: a financial podcast. You know, that's not really what a
Speaker 2: four year old goes around thinking. But I knew that
Speaker 2: I wanted to be in service. I knew that I
Speaker 2: wanted to help people, and I knew that I wasn't
Speaker 2: uncomfortable about money around money. I didn't think that was taboo,
Speaker 2: and I knew that was special, so I ran with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, And so I mean, you made
Speaker 1: this transition to like being visible, Like was that really weird?
Speaker 1: Because there were like very few women, let alone women
Speaker 1: of color, you know, who were like visible on TV.
Speaker 1: I remember you had I remember vaguely, like I think,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're you had a show. You
Speaker 1: had like a couple of shows, but I remember one
Speaker 1: like the set was like red. Was that called So Money?
Speaker 1: I can't remember. But then you had this other show
Speaker 1: when you were like interviewing like billionaires, like oh, private jets,
Speaker 1: like you had so many different lives in this personal
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: People, you know, it's funny. People be like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you have a podcast. That's amazing. I'm like, I have
Speaker 2: been around so long, Like you don't even know the
Speaker 2: rest of it. That's good. I guess. I guess I've
Speaker 2: been using some good skincare all these years and they
Speaker 2: stay out of the sun. But like, I mean, I
Speaker 2: remember being at a press conference for that show that
Speaker 2: you're referring to, was for CNBC called Follow the Leader.
Speaker 2: It was such an incredible opportunity. It was I've had
Speaker 2: a lot of these one hit wonders in the television world.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like before streaming, before before even really like the
Speaker 2: social media world took off and you could have your
Speaker 2: own show on your own TikTok or Instagram, like you
Speaker 2: had the powers that be were the studios and the
Speaker 2: networks and these like you know, you really it was
Speaker 2: really hard to make a show fly. And so I
Speaker 2: got this opportunity with CNBC to follow billionaires and mega
Speaker 2: CEOs who were like CEOs slash rock stars, you know,
Speaker 2: and just be flats on the wall, be a fly
Speaker 2: on the wall, get to learn, you know, what was
Speaker 2: the secret to their success. And it was very exciting.
Speaker 2: I had to go on lots of private planes and
Speaker 2: eat like a lot of fancy food, and it was
Speaker 2: it was one for the books, but we didn't get renewed.
Speaker 2: I remember going to the press conference for that show
Speaker 2: and a journalist stood up and he said, I remember
Speaker 2: you when you were like, you know, you were like
Speaker 2: writing for am New York which audience that is a
Speaker 2: free subway newspaper that is distributed widely in New York City,
Speaker 2: and I had a byline. I mean I got more
Speaker 2: recognition from that sometimes and anything because I had my
Speaker 2: picture in my byline. And when you're on the subway
Speaker 2: and you're reading a you know, it's like a captive audience.
Speaker 2: I remember going to a Banana Republic and showing my
Speaker 2: ID and the woman was like, are you the fernish
Speaker 2: truby that writes me, I am New York. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: I also have a book, which clearly you have not read.
Speaker 2: But yes, that is me. Now can I get the discount?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: This this entitle me to some sort of discount. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I have I've done. I've had the privilege of having
Speaker 2: so many different experiences, and I think I really went
Speaker 2: after that, you know, I want I'm I get bored easily.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you. I don't think I have ADHD.
Speaker 2: My son does. And I've talked about that a lot.
Speaker 2: If they say it runs in the family, who knows.
Speaker 2: Maybe I have it and I have never been tested.
Speaker 2: But I'm just somebody who get I don't idle. Well,
Speaker 2: I need a lot of variety. I like appetizers. I
Speaker 2: cannot commit to an entree, Tiffany, I need like three appetizers.
Speaker 2: Can I have some of yours?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And So this idea that I was going to pursue
Speaker 2: journalism and just be a writer, or just be a
Speaker 2: radio host, or just do television frightened me. Speaking of
Speaker 2: panic and healthy fear, and I think it led me
Speaker 2: to try to design a life and a career that
Speaker 2: allowed me to try and do a lot of things
Speaker 2: and not everything sticks, but at least you have fun trying.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, is that how you
Speaker 1: got to your book? Because first of all, what number
Speaker 1: book are you on now?
Speaker 2: For?
Speaker 1: Wow? So is that how you got to this book
Speaker 1: Healthy State of Panic? Like, because you're just like, because
Speaker 1: you have this super successful podcast that's doing really well,
Speaker 1: so money, you know, you speak, I know you do
Speaker 1: like brand partnerships, and then you've added this other because
Speaker 1: I know how hard I want to write a book
Speaker 1: than to to market it to sell it. So is
Speaker 1: that why you've written A Healthy State of Panic? Because
Speaker 1: you're like, I have something else to say, and like,
Speaker 1: I'm not quite busy.
Speaker 2: Enough right, Oh my gosh, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: So, this has been nine years since I've published a book.
Speaker 2: I think because I needed the time to recover from
Speaker 2: the last book launch. As you know, it's a lot
Speaker 2: of work. And I think if the genesis of this
Speaker 2: book again, I think goes back to my upbringing as
Speaker 2: a little girl who was raised in an immigrant family. Terrified.
Speaker 2: I was a terrified little girl, Tiffany, my mother even
Speaker 2: will say I did that on purpose. I raised you
Speaker 2: to be afraid on purpose, because let's remember my mother,
Speaker 2: she's nineteen when she had me, doesn't speak the language,
Speaker 2: isn't familiar with the culture, newly married, newly apparent living
Speaker 2: in Worcestern, Massachusetts, which at the time and still was,
Speaker 2: you know, known for a lot of just five o'clock
Speaker 2: news crime, you know, like break ins and theft and kidnappings.
Speaker 2: It was the eighties, right, So she was scared and
Speaker 2: she channeled that into her daughter me. And so I
Speaker 2: was afraid of strangers and eating other people's snacks because
Speaker 2: she told me they had poison in them.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I was afraid of being abandoned. I was afraid of
Speaker 2: like getting lost at the mall. I was afraid of
Speaker 2: being home alone. And so the fear wasn't always a friend,
Speaker 2: Like it got me into a lot of comical mischief
Speaker 2: and you know, backfired. But I will say that I
Speaker 2: had an early kind of developmental relationship with fear, and
Speaker 2: it transpired to the point where even as I was
Speaker 2: a young adult, I wouldn't say that I had mastered
Speaker 2: my fears. I was still like letting fear as it does,
Speaker 2: take me for a ride. And I was allowing it
Speaker 2: to block me from opportunities and realizing my real potential.
Speaker 2: So I had to, like a lot of a young adults,
Speaker 2: sort of like retrain and reparent yourself, but not abandoning
Speaker 2: the fear, saying, Okay, fear keeps showing up, I cannot
Speaker 2: be this fearless person. So maybe there is a way
Speaker 2: to work with fear, to listen to fear, to appreciate fear,
Speaker 2: to honor fear, to then be able to make the
Speaker 2: decisions that matter at life's crossroads. And I wanted to
Speaker 2: write a book. Like with all of my books, I
Speaker 2: feel like I want to say something that's new, that's different,
Speaker 2: that's also capturing the zeitgeist. Like my last book was
Speaker 2: about female breadwinners and what happens when you make more
Speaker 2: in your hetero relationship as a woman, and that was
Speaker 2: very taboo back then. We talk about it now, but
Speaker 2: it was like really really under wraps into in the
Speaker 2: early two thousands, and I was living that reality, and
Speaker 2: I was like, this is a great book topic, because
Speaker 2: when nobody wants to talk about something, that's when you
Speaker 2: know you have a good idea fast forward. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: right now in our world, we're dealing with still a
Speaker 2: lot of big financial conundrums, but also at the intersection
Speaker 2: of mental health and mental wellness. And year after year,
Speaker 2: day after day, there was like all these books about
Speaker 2: being fearless, and I felt like we were not appreciating
Speaker 2: fear in our culture in the way that I have
Speaker 2: that I've learned to really embrace. And so A healthy
Speaker 2: state of panic is a book that's going to help
Speaker 2: anybody out there like me who has gone through life
Speaker 2: realizing that fear just doesn't go away. This idea of
Speaker 2: being fearless that is not working. So my offer is
Speaker 2: what if we actually when fear shows up, we look
Speaker 2: at it, We ask it questions, We say, Okay, why
Speaker 2: are you here? Sometimes fear is there to help us,
Speaker 2: It doesn't want to derail us. We allow it. But
Speaker 2: I think that we can have agency here now that
Speaker 2: we're adults, and we can say, okay, fear, what you
Speaker 2: got for me? And I have done this over and
Speaker 2: over again in my life, whether it's when making big
Speaker 2: high stakes financial decisions, career choices, decisions about who to marry,
Speaker 2: who to not marry, raising my kids, being good to myself.
Speaker 2: I think that fear when we listen to it, like
Speaker 2: all emotions. All emotions are valid. Fear too. There was
Speaker 2: actually a study this year because they probably knew how
Speaker 2: a book coming out, but a bunch of scientists got
Speaker 2: together and they were like, you know what, they looked
Speaker 2: at all these sort of like bad emotions that we
Speaker 2: have branded bad. They're not really bad, but we just
Speaker 2: as a culture have decided that things like fear, sadness,
Speaker 2: and anger, we don't want anything to do with them. Happiness, joy, laughter,
Speaker 2: let's all focus on that. But those feelings, those that
Speaker 2: we have breed bad. So they did a study and
Speaker 2: they've said that those they found that those who perceive
Speaker 2: actually fear and anger and said is as bad or problematic,
Speaker 2: are unhappier than those of us who accept these emotions
Speaker 2: even just as neutral. And I would go a step
Speaker 2: further and say, no, these these emotions actually have wisdom,
Speaker 2: and we should listen to them and honor them, because
Speaker 2: when we do, we are honoring ourselves. Fear for me
Speaker 2: is very personal for you, Tiffany, It's different when it
Speaker 2: shows up, it's for different reasons, and so wouldn't you
Speaker 2: want to explore that. I just feel like when we
Speaker 2: get closer to how we feel. We get closer to
Speaker 2: who we are and what our values are. And that's
Speaker 2: the offering in this book. It's it's looking at money
Speaker 2: and work and all these really big, big, big moves
Speaker 2: that we make in our lives through the lens of
Speaker 2: your fears. And you know, I think it can be
Speaker 2: funny sometimes. I hope. I don't want this to be
Speaker 2: a serious book, you know, like it's not. It's not
Speaker 2: meant to be too too, too too serious. I want
Speaker 2: people to be on it, to be approachable, because a
Speaker 2: book about fear can be scary, yes, overwhelming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these big like because you're right, like you know,
Speaker 1: like even in grief. This is one thing I learned
Speaker 1: from my therapist. She was like, grief, even with grief,
Speaker 1: it brings gifts, she calls them, like the gifts of grief. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, so much clarity, just like you know, like
Speaker 1: is that what I really want to do? Is this?
Speaker 1: You know, is this direction? I want to go to?
Speaker 1: Same thing with fear, right, because fear is an indicator,
Speaker 1: Like wait, this is like you're something internally is saying
Speaker 1: pay attention, pay attention, pay attention. You know, like if
Speaker 1: I'm feeling this way, maybe you know that's actually it's
Speaker 1: because that's I don't want to become. Like I remember
Speaker 1: after graduating, I was going to graduate college and I
Speaker 1: was really afraid of graduating college. It's because what I
Speaker 1: had lined up this boring. I had done this internship
Speaker 1: which was so boring, and they'd offer me a job
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, even though I hated it.
Speaker 1: I used to cry every day. So I was afraid
Speaker 1: to graduate. And because I dove into that fear, what
Speaker 1: I was really saying was I don't want the life
Speaker 1: I've got lined up because I don't want to work there.
Speaker 1: But I know that my parents will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's so good, you know, And I just remember, like
Speaker 1: I quietly, you know, declined and decided. I accepted a
Speaker 1: job at a local daycare center. And I did not
Speaker 1: tell my parents because it was like telling them I've
Speaker 1: decided to become a drug dealer. Especially with immigrant parents
Speaker 1: are like, we did it work so hot for you too?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can see I can see how
Speaker 1: fear really it's like a it's a mechanism that you
Speaker 1: can use to say, wait, what am I actually really saying?
Speaker 2: You know, Like, and I think with your story, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: I think what you were What I try to do
Speaker 2: in the book is try to distill the fear even further.
Speaker 2: So there's nine chapters and each chapter is dedicated to
Speaker 2: a kind of fear because well, we typically what we
Speaker 2: tend to do in our culture is were like fear
Speaker 2: four letter word monolith. Fear has many brands and flavors.
Speaker 2: Fear of failure is I think what you were probably
Speaker 2: experiencing in that moment, this idea that you were going
Speaker 2: to take on this opportunity. And although all the the
Speaker 2: you know, everybody was excited for you, but like you personally,
Speaker 2: were not going to feel successful in that. And so
Speaker 2: fear of failure is one of the chapters. It's one
Speaker 2: of the biggest chapters because I got a lot of
Speaker 2: stories about my fears of failure. But there is wisdom.
Speaker 2: Every time failure, fear of failure shows up, it could
Speaker 2: be telling you multiple things. And I think in that instance,
Speaker 2: you were right to sort of listen to that fear
Speaker 2: was telling you that you want to move towards a
Speaker 2: new definition of success. Yes, so that's an opportunity that
Speaker 2: had you not experienced that fear, had you not said like, hey, fear, what's.
Speaker 1: The girl, I'll be working a cubicle right now talking
Speaker 1: about listening to so money in a cubicle.
Speaker 2: Like, what a shame for all of us? What a
Speaker 2: shame for all of humanity? If that was your if
Speaker 2: that was your plight. So I I journey through the book.
Speaker 2: There's nine chapters, nine different fears, starting with the ones
Speaker 2: that we tend to develop early on in our lives.
Speaker 2: Fear of rejection and fear of loneliness because who hasn't
Speaker 2: been rejected and who hasn't felt lonely? And then it
Speaker 2: goes into fomo because it is a twenty first century book,
Speaker 2: and the fear of missing out on other people's fun
Speaker 2: what is that actually telling you to do? Lots of stuff?
Speaker 2: The fear of exposure. I kind of made this one up,
Speaker 2: but I'm sticking with it. So there is a big
Speaker 2: push in our culture to be vulnerable, which I can appreciate.
Speaker 2: I have gone there, I've gone to the depths with
Speaker 2: certain audiences, certain people. I've shown my true self when
Speaker 2: it felt right. But I think there is a push
Speaker 2: to be vulnerable all the time, and some people don't
Speaker 2: know the boundaries, and then they get in trouble.
Speaker 1: They say all the things that's not the plexus. No.
Speaker 2: I mean it may sound to us like because maybe
Speaker 2: we've we've experienced it, and we're like, yeah, you don't
Speaker 2: do that, But for the person reading the book, who
Speaker 2: might be in her early twenties or his early twenties,
Speaker 2: and they're like, but I thought I was supposed to
Speaker 2: being my whole self to work. I thought I was
Speaker 2: supposed to tell everybody all the things I was supposed
Speaker 2: to speak up all the time. Well, in theory, that
Speaker 2: would be great, but we don't live in a euphoria
Speaker 2: like that, Like the world is not always so forgiving
Speaker 2: of people that have different opinions or different backgrounds. And
Speaker 2: not to say that you have to hide that or
Speaker 2: lie about that, but I think this chapter is really
Speaker 2: about how to be discerning when fear of exposure, which
Speaker 2: means like you're afraid of like someone finding out something
Speaker 2: personal about you that is sacred, Like I don't think
Speaker 2: that everyone needs to know everything about me, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: like I share that with certain people, but not everybody.
Speaker 2: And so how to read the room when that fear
Speaker 2: shows up. It's telling you to read the room. Case
Speaker 2: in point I was at con and I was on
Speaker 2: stage with a bunch of uh with. It was a
Speaker 2: panel on how to negotiate and earn your value as
Speaker 2: a creator and an entrepreneur and personal finance and touche
Speaker 2: that this person asked this question because it was about
Speaker 2: negotiating and earning your value, and she said, got up
Speaker 2: in the audience full of people I don't know, raised
Speaker 2: your hand and said, farnush, how much money do you make?
Speaker 1: Like actually, and they like, girl, I'm how to get
Speaker 1: robbed on the rain?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, thank you for thinking I make that
Speaker 2: much money. But that was just like I was, like,
Speaker 2: I appreciate the question, but in this forum, in this moment,
Speaker 2: not appropriate for me. Some people may be willing to
Speaker 2: go there. But that fear of exposure crawled up in
Speaker 2: that moment and like showed up and like was staring
Speaker 2: at me in the face, like you really want to
Speaker 2: go there, farnush with all these strangers. You want to
Speaker 2: tell these people what's on your w two And I'll
Speaker 2: tell you why I was afraid. It wasn't because I
Speaker 2: was afraid of maybe what people might think. I don't
Speaker 2: even know what people might think, but I'll tell you
Speaker 2: what my personal fears there were telling me. It was
Speaker 2: that you don't know who's in the room. You don't
Speaker 2: know who's in the room. I would love to think
Speaker 2: that everybody in this room is like an advocate and
Speaker 2: supports me, and would be like, yeah, you should earn
Speaker 2: that and then some But I know, because I've lived
Speaker 2: my life and I have experience in this that when
Speaker 2: people sometimes find out how much you make, they judge
Speaker 2: you for that in ways that I don't want the
Speaker 2: distraction and I don't also want to get penalized. So
Speaker 2: there was a story that before this happened, I'd experienced
Speaker 2: something that was completely complete BS. But I was negotiating
Speaker 2: a deal with a brand. This was round two of
Speaker 2: the negotiations. We had already worked together, I had delivered
Speaker 2: on all points, and they were coming back to do
Speaker 2: another term. So I obviously asked for more money, and
Speaker 2: I was negotiating this through my agent. But my agent
Speaker 2: came back to me and he said, you'll never believe
Speaker 2: what they just said. I said, what did they say
Speaker 2: was actually for more? But I wasn't asking for you know,
Speaker 2: crazy amounts. It was. It would have been a lot
Speaker 2: for me, but not a lot for them, also considering
Speaker 2: that they were getting a lot of value. He said,
Speaker 2: the woman who's their rep, the brand rep said, doesn't
Speaker 2: furnish already make enough?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yes, see, so this is going on in the world, Tiffany, right,
Speaker 2: and this is a woman, a woman. So I said
Speaker 2: to my agent, please go back with the following transcript.
Speaker 2: Are you sure you want to go on the record
Speaker 2: for saying that to a woman? And I got my lunch.
Speaker 2: Long story short, I got my money.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait for news. Should give me
Speaker 1: one second. We need to pay some bills. We're going
Speaker 1: to be right back. Have to pay some bills. You
Speaker 1: can hear more about for news and how to lean
Speaker 1: into fear. We'll be right back, black and brown and
Speaker 1: weird back far what you're saying again.
Speaker 2: My point is is that there's a reason employers are
Speaker 2: not allowed to ask you how much should you make
Speaker 2: in your previous job? Okay, so if you can accept that,
Speaker 2: that is cool like that. I get that. I get
Speaker 2: why I shouldn't be cornered during a job interview to
Speaker 2: give somebody my salary history because it can be used
Speaker 2: against me.
Speaker 1: Sangos.
Speaker 2: When you're an entrepreneur working in a field where you
Speaker 2: know there are people unfortunately out there that devalue you
Speaker 2: and will use what you make as a weapon against you. Now,
Speaker 2: having said all that, back to that fin Con moment
Speaker 2: on stage, this woman's asking me how much I make?
Speaker 2: I said, look, I will happily have this conversation with
Speaker 2: you one on one. Yes, And I said, anybody else
Speaker 2: in this room who wants to talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: negotiating brand contracts and all that, like, I'll beat the
Speaker 2: Starbucks downstairs. And a table of seven or eight of
Speaker 2: us got together and we talked and we are still
Speaker 2: in touch. So I think that when the fear of
Speaker 2: exposure shows up, and this is like a real important
Speaker 2: chapter in the book, especially now, because it may not
Speaker 2: seem like has anything to do with money or work,
Speaker 2: but it shows up in these contexts, right, that you
Speaker 2: should take a beat. And it doesn't mean you run
Speaker 2: away or you hide like sometimes we think fear is
Speaker 2: nudging us to do. No, it's just saying, read the room,
Speaker 2: figure out if you reveal this piece of information about yourself, Like,
Speaker 2: is the audience going to be receptive? Does it deserve
Speaker 2: to know your goods? Not every audience deserves to know
Speaker 2: all the special things about you, at least not right
Speaker 2: away or in certain contexts like find your own time,
Speaker 2: find your own place, find your own people.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that one of the things I hear
Speaker 1: you saying is that fear helps to create like an
Speaker 1: internal awareness.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's all about that. It's all about turning you inward, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: And I think in a world where there are a
Speaker 2: lot of distractions, and there's a lot of push pull,
Speaker 2: and you're being driven in million directions and you're looking
Speaker 2: at someone's in Instagram or you're looking at you know,
Speaker 2: what your parents thought you wanted, should do, could do,
Speaker 2: and we forget to just quiet all of that and
Speaker 2: think about what it is that we want. Who am
Speaker 2: I at the end of the day. And fear is
Speaker 2: like this icebreaker that that that gets us to do that,
Speaker 2: that wants us to do that ultimately. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: if not for fear, you and I would not be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So why is our.
Speaker 2: Culture so anti fear? Why are we so like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, you need to be fearless. You got to
Speaker 2: ignore your fears, fight your fears. Poor fear, poor old fear.
Speaker 2: You know, like it's just trying to help us out fear.
Speaker 1: I feel like you are fear as new pr agent.
Speaker 1: You're like, I mean, I mean, that's the.
Speaker 2: First page of the book. It's my it's my first
Speaker 2: line of the intro. I said, Uh, you know, fear
Speaker 2: has had some really bad pr for as long as
Speaker 2: I can remember, since the days of the Great Depression,
Speaker 2: when President rose Belt told a see of hungry, penniless
Speaker 2: Americans during the Great Depression that you have nothing to
Speaker 2: fear but fear itself. What kind of a privileged statement
Speaker 2: is that? I'm I am hungry, mister President, I'm afraid
Speaker 2: that I will not find work. And you know what,
Speaker 2: in every moment in my life where I have been afraid,
Speaker 2: I have found opportunity. I have gotten creative.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was gonna say, like, what are some of
Speaker 1: the benefits that you have found? Like I would love
Speaker 1: for to see her like yeah, Like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: Like you know, you don't have to necessarily share what
Speaker 1: you were afraid of if you're not comfortable. But like,
Speaker 1: on the other side of that, what are some of
Speaker 1: those Oh? Thank God for that fear of that moment,
Speaker 1: because as a result, this thing came out of it.
Speaker 2: The gosh, every chapter there are so many stories tivity.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what would you like to know about
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean it's cliche, but like moving in
Speaker 2: the pandemic, right, I was afraid of staying where I
Speaker 2: was with my family four in Brooklyn, in our small
Speaker 2: apartment that we were already planning to move to the suburbs.
Speaker 2: But the pandemic as a tailwind, it like got us
Speaker 2: out of that city real fast. And it was one
Speaker 2: of those moments where I thought, I'm either making the
Speaker 2: best decision or the worst decision. But I was afraid
Speaker 2: and I was gonna. I had to move. I had
Speaker 2: to do something. What made that decision viable? Even if so,
Speaker 2: I was ready for it to blow up in my face.
Speaker 2: I was, I'm always ready for I always have a
Speaker 2: plan B, C or D. My son is My son
Speaker 2: is nine, and uh he knows like I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: my job as a parent is done because I'll say,
Speaker 2: what if they don't have the thing that you want
Speaker 2: at the store, what's your plan? B? He mom, Mommy,
Speaker 2: I have a plan C and a D.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's really smart though, because you got as bad
Speaker 1: as the hell out, Like where is my car ranger? Right?
Speaker 2: I was like, what if they don't have Sonic and
Speaker 2: they don't have teenage meaning Minsta Turtles, and you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to get like Pokemon, which was like last season's obsession.
Speaker 2: And so I think that that's teaching them that life
Speaker 2: won't go your way. Usually it won't and not only
Speaker 2: And I love my Plan b's and c's and d's.
Speaker 2: I think they're equally as great as Plan A. You
Speaker 2: got to get yourself there and rallying behind those alternate
Speaker 2: plans because that's how you get through life feeling good
Speaker 2: and happy, you know. And so that was one reason.
Speaker 2: That was one obvious like fear driven. I talk about how,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, we were about to embark on a
Speaker 2: big renovation project in Brooklyn. We were going to come
Speaker 2: we were combining apartments, and we were going to have
Speaker 2: to move out of our apartment for four months to
Speaker 2: do this. And I had a baby at the time.
Speaker 2: I didn't have my second yet. I was just evan
Speaker 2: was I think, I don't know, six months, seven months,
Speaker 2: and the night before we're about to like do this,
Speaker 2: and I've got movers coming to take my stuff into storage.
Speaker 2: I've signed the sublet to go basically uproot my family
Speaker 2: to another to Williamsburg, which is like, you know for
Speaker 2: Brooklyn people in Brooklyn. I was going from like downtown
Speaker 2: Brooklyn to Williamsburg is basically like banning myself from the
Speaker 2: world and.
Speaker 1: Near Promozoto radical it comes to their areas.
Speaker 2: Were such snobs. We're such like you know, micro city.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So the contractor that we had hired, who was recommended
Speaker 2: by an architect whom we had met several times, lovely man.
Speaker 2: We're about to meet for our final budget meeting to
Speaker 2: go over the budget and he comes into my apartment.
Speaker 2: I swear to a kid, you not hitting. He was
Speaker 2: like Tiffany. He was like sideways.
Speaker 1: He was like he was like that that like that.
Speaker 2: Slip was it a V eight commercial where they come
Speaker 2: in like.
Speaker 1: Side He drunk.
Speaker 2: He was holding it together and he wasn't like falling
Speaker 2: over himself. But he was like a different person. He
Speaker 2: was loud, he was snippetty.
Speaker 1: He insulted me.
Speaker 2: At one point I said, I said, I want to
Speaker 2: just talk about the flooring because the flooring was really expensive.
Speaker 2: I was like, can we shop this around? And he goes,
Speaker 2: I thought, you like nice things? And I was like oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Suddenly got really hostile in the room and like my architect,
Speaker 2: I'm looking at her like, do you are you watching
Speaker 2: this movie? Like I don't know what's going on? Like
Speaker 2: this is the part of nice nice contractor is now
Speaker 2: by like belligerent? I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: Man, it you know how like when they watch it
Speaker 1: when you do him play and it's like what was that?
Speaker 1: Like your your like if you can't do the play,
Speaker 1: like let's just say understudy, yes, your understudy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was totally the understudy. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what his deal is. And also I
Speaker 2: was like, all right, let's look at the budget. And
Speaker 2: he didn't bring the budget to the budget meeting.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So I said, you know what, let's just wrap well
Speaker 2: convened in the morning, but between you and me, like
Speaker 2: I need to know what was going on. I just
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of this guy. So I pulled
Speaker 2: my architect aside, I said, can you please follow with
Speaker 2: him and find out what is going on? And so
Speaker 2: she called him that night and at first he denied everything.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, I thought the meeting went great. She's like,
Speaker 2: you clearly weren't there, like what was going on? And
Speaker 2: then after a little bit of you know, here and there,
Speaker 2: he said, well, actually I my cousins were in town.
Speaker 2: We went out for some beers, and then I took
Speaker 2: my back paid medicine, and then he thought it was
Speaker 2: a good idea to come to a meeting. Now, I
Speaker 2: don't fault him for that, like taking his medicine with
Speaker 2: his beers four hours apart, but whatever, Like do that
Speaker 2: in your home. Don't come to a meeting at someone's
Speaker 2: house and then pretend like everything is okay. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: he had just canceled that meeting, he would have been fine.
Speaker 2: He would have been covered. And because here's what happened.
Speaker 2: When I found out that he did that to us
Speaker 2: and thought it was cool. And he's the contractor, he's
Speaker 2: not like, he's not the man man. You know, he's
Speaker 2: dealing with heavy machinery and he's dealing with a team
Speaker 2: and New York City laws. And I said, I cannot
Speaker 2: hire him. And this was this specific fear that I had,
Speaker 2: was the fear of failure. I feared that if I
Speaker 2: hired him, the project would fail because he would show
Speaker 2: up again. I couldn't trust him, and there's a whole
Speaker 2: section in that chapter about red flags. I love red flags.
Speaker 2: Red flags are your friends. When people show up as
Speaker 2: they are in their truth, believe them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And I just felt like I was gonna I was
Speaker 2: afraid that if I fired him that I was going
Speaker 2: to lose out on all this money. I was not
Speaker 2: I was supposed to move into a sublet, Like, how
Speaker 2: could I do this? I should just people wanted me
Speaker 2: to turn a cheek. My architect even was like, I've
Speaker 2: never seen him like this. I don't think it's going
Speaker 2: to happen again. But I was like, I just here's
Speaker 2: what you ask yourself. If in a year or three
Speaker 2: months something blows up and it's him doing his thing again,
Speaker 2: who would you just be like, Oh, I didn't see
Speaker 2: that coming, because you did, because I did. And it
Speaker 2: was not a small thing. Yeah, and these were it
Speaker 2: was a huge six figure project. People were involved, lives
Speaker 2: were involved, the law was involved, and I just couldn't know.
Speaker 2: So I did bite the bullet. I mean, I cut
Speaker 2: losses there. I moved into a sublet that I didn't
Speaker 2: need to. For the first month, I had to somehow
Speaker 2: scramble to find a new contractor. I had things in
Speaker 2: storage that I didn't need to so I had spent
Speaker 2: all this money that was just sunk costs to that point.
Speaker 1: But I knew that.
Speaker 2: There was a bigger fear waiting for me, a bigger
Speaker 2: disaster waiting for me. And that's really what a lot
Speaker 2: of times it comes down to. When you feel fear
Speaker 2: and you're thinking, do I do something? Do I not?
Speaker 2: Here's what I want to offer you. Think about if
Speaker 2: you don't do anything with this fear, if this fear
Speaker 2: does what it sometimes does does when we're not really
Speaker 2: really being thoughtful or calculating, just like it stops us
Speaker 2: in our tracks, like it freezes us. You don't want that,
Speaker 2: because think about in a year or down the road,
Speaker 2: you ignored this, you didn't do anything, you thought you
Speaker 2: were gonna be fearless, something else bigger happens. That's scarier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, And this just really resonates with me, especially
Speaker 1: over the last two years. I remember like so like
Speaker 1: I didn't give I have my stepdaughter, Alyssa. She's awesome
Speaker 1: who for the first time today she sent me like
Speaker 1: this jit that said I love you, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I mean, she's a teenager. So that's why get so sweet.
Speaker 1: I know, that's what I'm saying. Like I was like,
Speaker 1: what I mean, I always tell her I love her,
Speaker 1: like I dropped off for school. I love you, you know,
Speaker 1: I get up to I love you. She always responds.
Speaker 1: But this is like the first unprompted like not I
Speaker 1: love you. So these Jordans, I really like, you know,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah, not a tea up. It was just
Speaker 1: sounds super sweet. But like I remember, like I was
Speaker 1: never really sure. I mean, if you guys listen to
Speaker 1: the podcast for a while, like I'm like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I love kids, like I taught preschool because I love kids,
Speaker 1: but I was never one hundred thousand percent like I
Speaker 1: definitely want to be a mom. But I remember that
Speaker 1: I had this fear that if I didn't try, I
Speaker 1: would live to regret it. I knew that for sure.
Speaker 1: I was like and it was like and I knew
Speaker 1: Durell was like like an amazing dad, so I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, worst case scenario, this kid got an awesome da,
Speaker 1: like just in case I don't work out. So but
Speaker 1: I just remember distinctly thinking I'm not sure. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I want to be a mom, I'm not sure,
Speaker 1: but I know one hundred percent that if I don't try,
Speaker 1: I'm going to regret it. Because there was this fear
Speaker 1: that was like pulsing, and so I was able to
Speaker 1: conceive naturally. I did IVF for like three years and
Speaker 1: it didn't work out. Actually did our last implementation like
Speaker 1: with the embryo, like the in October, and Drel passed
Speaker 1: away in November. But because I did those three years,
Speaker 1: because I asked my therapist, I said, of all the
Speaker 1: things I'm going through with grief, why is it I
Speaker 1: don't feel bad that I didn't give birth any kids?
Speaker 1: She said, because you did everything possible. Yes, And to
Speaker 1: your point, I, of all the other emotions I have
Speaker 1: to deal with, that's not one of them. Because that
Speaker 1: fear made me take action, and because I did everything.
Speaker 1: I remember at the time, my IVF doctor was like, Tiffany,
Speaker 1: you're like my best patient. You're here every single week.
Speaker 1: You've taken all the meds, you haven't skipped, You've done everything.
Speaker 1: I even went vegan for like almost like a year
Speaker 1: and a half because I wasn't sure, like like anything
Speaker 1: possible to make sure that I could be prepared. So
Speaker 1: it took that. I you know, so many people when
Speaker 1: someone passes away to live with regret, you know, and
Speaker 1: that wasn't something that wasn't a regret which would have
Speaker 1: been a heavy one because what if I had let
Speaker 1: the budget needs to get in the way, you know,
Speaker 1: I was a workaholic. What if I had let that
Speaker 1: because it was I was this close to being like
Speaker 1: later later, later, then I would be sitting here with
Speaker 1: so much regret, like why didn't I try? What was
Speaker 1: more important than try? You know, But I don't have
Speaker 1: that because I did. And so to your point, that
Speaker 1: is a that was a beautiful fear that allowed me
Speaker 1: to do something that now I can like rest easy
Speaker 1: when it comes to that component of my life because
Speaker 1: I I did all that I was capable of doing,
Speaker 1: and if it was supposed to happen, it wasn't because
Speaker 1: I didn't do all that I was capable. So I
Speaker 1: can let that, let that go. So I'm grateful. And
Speaker 1: there's so many instances of that, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: like grateful for that fear. So I'm super excited to
Speaker 1: read your book because to your point, you know, I
Speaker 1: think so many of us were taught to lean back
Speaker 1: from fear, and what it sounds like is that your
Speaker 1: book really teaches us to lean into it and use
Speaker 1: it as a tool that it was intended, I know, and.
Speaker 2: It's available to all of us. We are all experts.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we were going by Malcolm Glodwell's ten
Speaker 2: thousand hour rule, we are bona fide fear experts. Just
Speaker 2: add it to your LinkedIn profile.
Speaker 1: Just do it.
Speaker 2: You are there, my friends. I mean, thinking about this
Speaker 2: world that we live in and how so many resources
Speaker 2: are inaccessible, right, there's just not equity when it comes
Speaker 2: to the availability of tools and resources to help us
Speaker 2: navigate life. Fear is abundant.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: It is a natural resource, and what a gift if
Speaker 2: we just allow it to be that, if we just
Speaker 2: allow it, if it's just a reframe, it's a simple reframe.
Speaker 2: And to your story about you know, doing all the
Speaker 2: things you can do that taking control of what is
Speaker 2: a completely uncertain moment. I mean, anyone trying to get pregnant,
Speaker 2: you know, you just have to like cross your fingers.
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, you think you have so much
Speaker 2: of a role in that. But I think what I'm
Speaker 2: hearing from you in that story is that you had
Speaker 2: this fear of uncertainty, and you decided to create order
Speaker 2: in the disorder, and your best way of doing that
Speaker 2: was to do what you could do, what can you control?
Speaker 2: And that's often what the fear of uncertainty is nudging
Speaker 2: us towards. It's not asking us to spiral, it's not
Speaker 2: telling us to chase our tails. It's not telling us
Speaker 2: to bury ourselves in uncertainty or not make a decision.
Speaker 2: It's saying, what do you have at your disposal? What
Speaker 2: are the resources that you have where you can feel
Speaker 2: empowered and in control. And it's still may not work out,
Speaker 2: but to your point, at least you can say I
Speaker 2: did everything I could exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's totally what I realized I was asking of myself,
Speaker 1: like because I'm like, I can't. So there are more
Speaker 1: people who have not been born than born. You know,
Speaker 1: we realized that when you really try to have a baby,
Speaker 1: especially if you go through like the scientific component of it,
Speaker 1: you start to realize what a miracle it is that
Speaker 1: you're sitting here, because like if your mom would have
Speaker 1: coughed instead of sneezed, if she would have had a
Speaker 1: coffee instead of tea, you know, like anything. Literally, like
Speaker 1: if your dad had a unibra and your mom was
Speaker 1: like not really unto your brows, you literally might not
Speaker 1: be here, you know, And so it's such a miracle.
Speaker 1: So you realize, like I knew that, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: just think I love this. I can't wait honestly for
Speaker 1: it to like like, I know you gave me the
Speaker 1: gap change the world, but honestly, I really I'm someone
Speaker 1: honestly I love like these days, I love to have
Speaker 1: my physical book, but I can't wait. Are you reading
Speaker 1: the audiobook versus?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I just finished recording it, and one of
Speaker 2: the ways we wanted to make it extra special was
Speaker 2: to incorporate actual audio of people that I have interviewed
Speaker 2: from the podcast that I have exerted, so you get
Speaker 2: to hear their voices. You also hear me impersonating my parents,
Speaker 2: like your beautiful Nigerian accent from your parents. I have
Speaker 2: the Persian mom and the Persian dad, and it's just fun,
Speaker 2: you know. I I'm not going to pretend that I'm
Speaker 2: going to be revolutionizing anything here, but I just hope
Speaker 2: that people will give themselves more credit and give their
Speaker 2: feelings more credit, and to know that we're all scared
Speaker 2: all the time. You can be scared and successful, you
Speaker 2: can be afraid and fulfilled that they're not. They don't
Speaker 2: cancel each other out and that you know, I'm living
Speaker 2: proof of that, and I am continuously terrified. Like there
Speaker 2: was a man taking photos of my house from his
Speaker 2: car the other day. Wasn't the other day. It was
Speaker 2: during the pandemic, so even scarier. And I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, he's totally plotting a home invasion, like
Speaker 2: he is figuring out my routine. He was a home
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: He's gonna say if I was the home appraiser, Like
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: All the houses are selling on our block. It's the pandemic.
Speaker 2: That's what he's doing. Yes, because no actual home invader
Speaker 2: is going to be that out. So but that's me,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm still that terrified little girl inside, but
Speaker 2: I have just learned how to like play with it
Speaker 2: in a way that works for me instead of the
Speaker 2: other way around. Because I know fear does have that
Speaker 2: ability to run us rampant and make us doubt ourselves
Speaker 2: and feel stuck and insecure. This is not what I'm sam.
Speaker 1: Fear can do.
Speaker 2: All of those things, but and it can also be
Speaker 2: a tool, and it's our choice to decide what we're
Speaker 2: going to do with it.
Speaker 1: Well, where can people get your book? A Healthy State
Speaker 1: of Panic?
Speaker 2: All your favorite independent booksellers. I want to lead with that.
Speaker 2: I want to support our independence. But also if you can't,
Speaker 2: if you don't have access to an indie online everywhere
Speaker 2: you'd like to shop, you know, And if we're airing
Speaker 2: this before the pub date, which is October third, you
Speaker 2: can go to a Healthy Stateapanic dot com and submit
Speaker 2: your receipt and you'll get my free program. It's called
Speaker 2: Scared Smart and it's a three video course workbook plus
Speaker 2: the introduction. I figured, why wait till October third to
Speaker 2: get a handle on your financial fears? So that's what
Speaker 2: that program walks you, walks you through and it's my
Speaker 2: thank you to those who want to support the pre sales.
Speaker 1: I love it. So a Healthy State of Panic dot
Speaker 1: com will list all the places that people can purchase.
Speaker 2: You can purchase it there, yeah, through there, and then
Speaker 2: that's also where you can submit for the bonuses.
Speaker 1: I love that. And first of all, did you hear
Speaker 1: what she said? She didn't say? Go to ournews to
Speaker 1: Robbie dot com for sas two to nine one one
Speaker 1: one like some I've been talking to them all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my goodness, if you don't go and
Speaker 1: pay the two dollars and the ten dollars for that
Speaker 1: you are around, Yeah, just do it, yes, because you
Speaker 1: know you get it for ten bucks. And then even
Speaker 1: if like let's just say a Healthy State of Panic,
Speaker 1: which I can't believe you got. That's such an awesome
Speaker 1: name that it was available, right, but let's just say
Speaker 1: that wasn't available, you could buy a Healthy State of
Speaker 1: Panic book Like this is like.
Speaker 2: Me like telling everything with a book, sure, you.
Speaker 1: Know, like but like you can put a book after
Speaker 1: before whatever. But I just they know, I'm always getting
Speaker 1: on them that like when you're gonna do a thing,
Speaker 1: it's literally ten bucks buy the dag on ur l
Speaker 1: so people don't have to try to figure out like wait,
Speaker 1: you know, and so yes, I love that a Healthy Panic.
Speaker 2: Do you ever get emails from like go daddy or
Speaker 2: whoever that's like you're your URLs are about to expire
Speaker 2: and it's like the ones that I bought in like
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight that I had an idea in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night and I just went and
Speaker 2: bought the and I was like, what was I even thinking?
Speaker 2: What is this site?
Speaker 1: You know, I have one that's like what was it?
Speaker 1: It's like responsibility te for like T shirt because I
Speaker 1: was like, ooh, I'm gonna do I wanna do T
Speaker 1: shirts to have like these responsible messus.
Speaker 2: Girl.
Speaker 1: I was like, that was ten dollars not well spent,
Speaker 1: but either way, I got it. And so.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a business expense. You can write it off, okay, And.
Speaker 1: Literally it's typically the average you are around, unless it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, something like super super popular. It's about ten
Speaker 1: bucks for the year, and you don't have to set
Speaker 1: it on an automatic renewal. So I just tell people
Speaker 1: go ahead and get it, and then if you don't
Speaker 1: use it, that's fine. But a healthy datapanic dot com
Speaker 1: And for our news, where can they follow you on
Speaker 1: all the socials?
Speaker 2: Well, you mean the social I'm really just on Instagram.
Speaker 2: I can't. I mean, I know there's threads now and
Speaker 2: of course TikTok and what's Facebook. But Instagram is like,
Speaker 2: again going back to my book, like the fear of exposure,
Speaker 2: like that's for my people crowd. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: be going bearing all on TikTok. You're never going to
Speaker 2: see me doing that. I've tried. It's not working. The
Speaker 2: algorithm and I are just like not mixing. And so
Speaker 2: Instagram at furnish to Rabbi, it's where I'm having a
Speaker 2: lot of fun. Everyone there's very nice and that's how I.
Speaker 1: Like to keep it. Yes, I love our news to Rabbi.
Speaker 1: F ar n O O s h to Robbie T
Speaker 1: spell it for me.
Speaker 2: T O r A B I yes, you can read
Speaker 2: it is. But you know, there was a time many
Speaker 2: times in my life. Did you ever want to change
Speaker 2: your name?
Speaker 1: I mean your name was Tiffany, but no, no, my
Speaker 1: name was actually Adochi and so I did change. My
Speaker 1: name is six.
Speaker 2: So okay, I mean that makes sense. I my parents
Speaker 2: allowed me to change my name. I never went with
Speaker 2: the like I test a test ransom names. I was Ashley, Christina, Tina, Nikki.
Speaker 2: It's all Nikki's kind of cute it is, and it
Speaker 2: was I always like had in my mind a girl
Speaker 2: like I had a vision of a girl obviously like
Speaker 2: and Nikki was a real girl from my past life,
Speaker 2: past life like we had moved and the girl that
Speaker 2: I knew for my old town who was like super
Speaker 2: super cool, like just like Kashmir sweaters. I mean like
Speaker 2: this girl had her style down and the parents loved
Speaker 2: her and the kids loved her, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to beat her.
Speaker 1: Well, we glad just stayed for news. I mean, I'll
Speaker 1: say that, like I semi, I don't say I regret
Speaker 1: because well whatever, we're here now. But I tried to
Speaker 1: go back to Adochi and in college, and I remember
Speaker 1: why I changed it because no one can say it
Speaker 1: used to piss me off. And so like all I
Speaker 1: can tell how well you know me by or how
Speaker 1: long you've known me by what you call me. Like
Speaker 1: there are every once in a while, I'll meet somebody
Speaker 1: from like elementary school, like you know, like I'll be
Speaker 1: at the Marshalls and somebody be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: is that you Adochi? And I'm like, wait what because
Speaker 1: I changed it in sixth grade. I'm like, wait roads
Speaker 1: from second grade? Oh my god? So like yeah, so
Speaker 1: when I was sixth grade, ye, and my dad was like,
Speaker 1: you guys can pick a name, and so so Adote
Speaker 1: is still my name, is my middle name. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I picked well at first, I wanted I think I
Speaker 1: wanted Crystal. I wanted Oh, there was something else that
Speaker 1: was like Renee, which I think I'd make a few Renee.
Speaker 1: That's a great name. It's like there was some other,
Speaker 1: like non sensual name, like I wanted Jenny, which girl, now,
Speaker 1: no shade to you Jenny's but I'm just.
Speaker 2: I don't nicky to Jenny. I feel like I know.
Speaker 1: But Tiffany I was just like my dad's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a good name. So yeah, so I yeah, my
Speaker 1: name is I mean, like you know, if y'all want
Speaker 1: to call me a duty, just say it right, just
Speaker 1: call me Tiffany.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want some comedy. My brother, his
Speaker 2: name is Todd.
Speaker 1: No, what was his other name? Was he born to
Speaker 1: Todd or does.
Speaker 2: He have like yeah, it's his actually it's his middle name.
Speaker 2: But and it's your name is Ali, like literally every
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern boy who's born like that's going to be
Speaker 2: part of your name. But he went with Todd. And
Speaker 2: my parents changed their names when they became naturalized citizens.
Speaker 2: My dad is Adam, my mom is Sheila. I'm the
Speaker 2: only one who's stuck with the Iranian n it okay.
Speaker 1: I love it though, because when we google you, we
Speaker 1: gonna find you, you know what I mean. I'm just
Speaker 1: glad that my last name is very unique, Alice, because
Speaker 1: then you know, when people look me up, like if
Speaker 1: my name was, like, you know, Tiffany Smith, then it
Speaker 1: doesn't like you know, but if I google for Anish
Speaker 1: to Robbie, it's only you.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, but so it's so funny. I
Speaker 2: don't even know how I forgot to write about this
Speaker 2: in the book, but I'll share it here. It's an exclusive.
Speaker 2: The title of the book came out of a conversation
Speaker 2: with another far Nouche, one of the few Farniches I
Speaker 2: have ever met in the world. She and I found
Speaker 2: each other on Facebook. We met for a coffee. She
Speaker 2: lives in the South, I live up East. She was
Speaker 2: visiting New York. We finally met for coffee and I said,
Speaker 2: and I actually had had her on my podcast because
Speaker 2: she is an author and has just a great career.
Speaker 2: But I said to her, and it was on the show,
Speaker 2: I said, if you had she's Iranian. Obviously as farnw
Speaker 2: she's Iranian. I said, if you had to describe your
Speaker 2: childhood the way your parents raised you, Like, how would
Speaker 2: you describe it? Because we were finding all sorts of commonalities,
Speaker 2: you know, because you know, I can believe like children
Speaker 2: of immigrants girls Iranian And she said, uh, it was
Speaker 2: like a healthy state of fear or something like that,
Speaker 2: or like it was like a healthy dose of panic
Speaker 2: or something. And it wasn't exactly healthy state of panic.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I was like, far noush. I'm
Speaker 2: going to steal that for like the title of my
Speaker 2: next book is that, okay? And actually have it recorded
Speaker 2: on my podcast, Like you can go and listen to
Speaker 2: that episode, and she said it's yours. I said, we
Speaker 2: are so two peas in a pod. And I'm such, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like so much reinforcement to me that another farnuche
Speaker 2: born on a you know, different different parents, different part
Speaker 2: of the country, but still had that same like a
Speaker 2: bit of fear, born in the eighties. All of that.
Speaker 2: That that's how you would that's how you would sum
Speaker 2: it up. Well, guess what that's going to be my book?
Speaker 1: And she said, go for it. I called those god nods,
Speaker 1: you know, that's what I call Oh, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: but I love that so par nous to Robbie follow
Speaker 1: her on Instagram. A Healthy state of Panic. If you
Speaker 1: want to learn how to lean into your fear and
Speaker 1: use it as a tool that it is, go to
Speaker 1: a Healthy State Ofpanic dot com. We encourage you, you
Speaker 1: know to support small book and bookstores and yeah far News,
Speaker 1: thank you so much coming on worse.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tiffany Well if you I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: we do.
Speaker 1: The Baqa Produce has agreed to come and answer your
Speaker 1: raggedy questions. No just joking. So so if you listened
Speaker 1: in a couple of days, Baqa would come out and
Speaker 1: Produce is gonna come. She is one of the top
Speaker 1: minds in personal finance. She's gonna lead into some of
Speaker 1: your questions. Until next week, y'all, Bye bye, Hey, ba Fam.
Speaker 3: We could not do this show without your support or
Speaker 3: the support of our team behind the scenes. The Brann
Speaker 3: Edition podcast is produced by Imani Crosby and Dennis Simplinsky
Speaker 3: is our in house tech guru. I am your co
Speaker 3: host Mandy Woodrif Santos, and we will see y'all next week.
Speaker 3: Ba Fam.