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Speaker 1: It's time to refresh your yard. During Spring Backyard Days

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Speaker 1: May sixth. Exclusions applies to home Depot com slash price

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Speaker 1: match for details.

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Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Emily, your friend and jeweler at Shane Company,

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Speaker 2: where fine jewelry is always crafted with care, no matter

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Speaker 2: the price. Mother's Day, birthdays and graduations, weddings and anniversaries,

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Speaker 2: the new job you got and even the one you didn't.

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Speaker 2: Give a birthstone necklace, a heart shaped locket made in Italy,

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Speaker 2: or high quality diamond studs you can trade up every year.

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Speaker 2: At Shane Company, we have something for everyone. Because a

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Speaker 2: friend wants you to win the gifting game, visit us

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Speaker 2: in store or at Shaneco dot com. Shane Company your

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Speaker 2: friend in jewl.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 2: Past and the press, who believe that someone out of

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Speaker 2: the past can enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be true with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not true with us.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a movie of

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Speaker 4: the Week podcast debuted to a classic film the way

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Speaker 4: it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Scott

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Speaker 4: Tobias here.

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Speaker 3: Again with Tasha Robinson.

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Speaker 4: Our co host Jennevie Cooski is taking a break this week,

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Speaker 4: but she'll be back again soon. On last week's show,

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Speaker 4: we talked about writer Charlie Kaufman and director Michelle Gondry's

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Speaker 4: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which used the science

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Speaker 4: fiction premise of a procedure that could erase memories of

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Speaker 4: past relationships to express the value of even painful experiences.

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Speaker 4: This week, memory is again the theme of Reminiscence, the

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Speaker 4: new sci fi noir about the mysteries memory can help

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Speaker 4: us solve about ourselves. Written and directed by Lisa Joy,

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Speaker 4: one of the co creates HBO's Westworld, the film takes

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Speaker 4: place in a future where climate change has left Miami

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Speaker 4: permanently flooded and the daytime temperatures are so extreme that

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Speaker 4: people mostly come out at night. Hugh Jackman stars as

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Speaker 4: Nick Banister, a veteran who runs a business that allows

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Speaker 4: people to relive specific memories, memories that Nick and his partner, Emily,

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Speaker 4: another veteran played by Tandee Way Newton, can see as

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Speaker 4: they're guiding his clients through them. One evening, a mysterious

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Speaker 4: woman named May played by Rebecca Ferguson comes into the

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Speaker 4: clinic with a seemingly basic request to have Nick find

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Speaker 4: her missing keys. After the first session, Nick and May

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Speaker 4: embark on a romantic relationship, but when she disappears suddenly,

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Speaker 4: Nick starts to learn there's more to her life than

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Speaker 4: meets the eye, and he's going to have to revisit

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Speaker 4: other memories to figure out what's going on. We'll figure

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Speaker 4: it out ourselves. Possibly after the break.

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Speaker 5: When the waters began to rise, the war broke out,

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Speaker 5: nostalgia became a way of life. It wasn't a lot

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Speaker 5: to look forward to, so people began looking back. Nothing

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Speaker 5: is more addictive in the past.

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Speaker 6: No, No, donald let me back a suits me of time,

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Speaker 6: and people don't Just that is.

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Speaker 5: To find where she'd gone, or had to know where

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Speaker 5: she'd been.

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Speaker 7: Was she running from the past.

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Speaker 5: Or racing back towards him?

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Speaker 3: How must you really know? How STU?

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Speaker 6: Who WASHINGI?

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Speaker 7: Who washed him?

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Speaker 5: And out with me?

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Speaker 2: You think you want to wet?

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Speaker 4: Where wor?

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Speaker 6: So?

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Speaker 4: What did everyone think of the hit film reminiscence?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 4: To hit?

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Speaker 3: Definitely not a hit. Keith and I were in the

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Speaker 3: same screening, and I feel like we both walked out

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Speaker 3: of it feeling pretty positive, not like this is going

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Speaker 3: to be a blockbuster success and it's going to rock

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Speaker 3: the world, and definitely not that eternal sunshine level. I've

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Speaker 3: just seen something unique. But we both walked out, as

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Speaker 3: I recall, kind of like, yeah, that was a that

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Speaker 3: was a pretty enjoyable movie, and boy, we seem to

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Speaker 3: be on the high end with that response of I'm a.

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Speaker 8: Little more measured. I I thought it was. I thought

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Speaker 8: it was interesting, definitely had a lot of a lot

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Speaker 8: of interest. I yeswimming around. I'm not sure at all

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Speaker 8: I did, wasn't sure the time of it all came together.

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Speaker 8: I'm less sure now, but it's definitely not a film

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Speaker 8: that deserves to be instantly, instantly forgotten from the cultural memory,

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Speaker 8: scrubbed as if it was a kind of Lacuna involved.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that. I think the negative reviews have

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Speaker 4: been a bit over the top, because there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of interesting and salvageable aspects of this film, even

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Speaker 4: though it didn't really work for me as well as

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Speaker 4: it should. In fact, the a lot of the frustrations

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Speaker 4: I had with it, as well as the things I

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Speaker 4: like about it, are things that it shares with Westworld.

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Speaker 4: It is really interesting to look at. It's conceptually striking.

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Speaker 4: I think the world of the film is really cool,

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Speaker 4: you know. It is. The idea of setting it in Miami,

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Speaker 4: where people have to come out at night, gives that

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Speaker 4: kind of the whole South Beach art deco vibe is

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Speaker 4: just immediately transformed quite smoothly into into noir, into a

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Speaker 4: sort of modern noir. So I'm on board with with

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Speaker 4: all of that. But I think that the plot is

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Speaker 4: something that you're supposed to that it's supposed to kind

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Speaker 4: of bring you through a world, the world of the film.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's why these kind of dense plots

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Speaker 4: exist to kind of to kind of serve as a

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Speaker 4: kind of an escort into the future that the film

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Speaker 4: envisions it into. Me, that's where it falls short. I

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Speaker 4: think it's not as compelling, it's not as doesn't feel

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Speaker 4: emotionally invested. There's a coldness to it and kind of

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Speaker 4: a mannered quality to it that kept me at a distance.

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Speaker 4: I would say, so, I.

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Speaker 8: Don't think the central romance really works. There's no there's

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Speaker 8: no heat there at all too. It's one of the

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Speaker 8: things where it's two very attractive people and you know,

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Speaker 8: we're told that they're they're in love with one another

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Speaker 8: at least, or at least he's desperately in love with her.

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Speaker 8: As the film, you know, as it plays with whether

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Speaker 8: or not she returns those feelings. But I never really

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Speaker 8: felt the spark there.

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Speaker 4: That you would want.

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Speaker 3: The structure of the film I think works against any

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Speaker 3: attempts to make that relationship feel like it works to

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Speaker 3: make it feel romantic, because fundamentally, Hugh Jackman and Rebecca

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Speaker 3: Ferguson fall into a relationship and then she disappears, and

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Speaker 3: he is convinced that something terrible must have happened because

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Speaker 3: their love is so deep and true that there's no

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Speaker 3: possible way that she could have just left him, And

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Speaker 3: then he spends most of the movie just constantly finding

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Speaker 3: out that she wasn't the person he thought she was. No,

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Speaker 3: it probably was all fake, but he continues on undimmed,

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Speaker 3: and so he looks like a patsy for most of

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Speaker 3: the movie. I mean, it is very effectively a science

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Speaker 3: fiction neo noir where she functions as the fem fatale

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Speaker 3: who kind of comes into his life, seduces him in

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Speaker 3: and then retreats, and when he chases after her, he

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Speaker 3: finds out that there are terrible things going on in

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Speaker 3: her life, and he tries to solve her problems, and

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Speaker 3: you know, it's sort of the mystery of the movie

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Speaker 3: whether she did that on purpose, whether she wants him

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Speaker 3: following her or solving her problems, what she felt about him,

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Speaker 3: if anything whatsoever. And when you kind of find out

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Speaker 3: the answer to that in the end, it comes in

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Speaker 3: a way that just doesn't feel very satisfying. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel like either an emotional payoff or fully a payoff

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Speaker 3: for the plot. So I think this movie just has

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Speaker 3: basically structural problems that it's not going to be able

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Speaker 3: to overcome. But within all that, like so much noir,

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Speaker 3: like so much neo noir, it's very stylish, yes, and

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Speaker 3: very memorable, very visually interesting and just very emotionally in

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Speaker 3: a deep, dark, sad kind of way, the destruction of

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Speaker 3: the climate and the subsequent destruction of Miami, and it

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Speaker 3: sounds like the world just kind of hangs heavily over

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Speaker 3: the story of this film. This is like somebody looking

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Speaker 3: for comfort in a very sad and dark place where

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Speaker 3: there just really isn't a whole lot of hope. And

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Speaker 3: I think that ends up coming through in the movie

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Speaker 3: a lot more clearly than any sense of nostalgia that

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Speaker 3: we're supposed to share with you Jackman's character, or any

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Speaker 3: sense of like romance or investment in the relationship we're

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Speaker 3: supposed to share with them.

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Speaker 4: One of the issues to me, too, is like you

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Speaker 4: find out enough about this world to wish you knew more, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: because I think that the problems of these two people

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Speaker 4: literally do not amount to a hillobines in this you know,

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Speaker 4: in this world, right I mean, I think I think

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Speaker 4: my mind is immediately drawn to like, Okay, there's a

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Speaker 4: civil war. Wow, that's interesting. This machine, too, was it

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Speaker 4: was and is used for other purposes than to have

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Speaker 4: people relive memories, which could be comforting and stimulating in

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Speaker 4: a way. It's also used as an interrogation technique is

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Speaker 4: used for malevolent purposes as well. That's interesting. I kind

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Speaker 4: of want to know more about that. It was kind

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Speaker 4: of like that for me, and it's a West World.

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Speaker 4: Is it gonna be that way too, where you're just

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Speaker 4: like you're just like, you have this incredible world that

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Speaker 4: you've established, it looks great. Show me something more compelling,

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Speaker 4: and there's something so mannered, I guess about Reminiscence, about

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Speaker 4: the presence of Rebecca Ferguson as the fem Fa top.

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Speaker 4: Everything feels like it's in quotes. There's not a lot

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Speaker 4: of like genuine emotional investment going on in any part

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Speaker 4: of this film. It all feels very you feel really

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Speaker 4: distanced from it in a way that is not entirely intended,

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Speaker 4: I think on the part of the movie.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's the same problem in Westworld. It just

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Speaker 3: it's lugubrious. It's very, very pretty, but there's just always

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Speaker 3: sort of a sense of, you know, pick up the

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Speaker 3: pace a little bit like Westworld has a tendency to

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Speaker 3: wallow in its darkest emotions and its darkest imagery and

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Speaker 3: its darkest moments. Just this sort of feeling of humanity

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Speaker 3: is awful like, look at all the awful things that

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Speaker 3: they've done. But then as a result, there are times

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Speaker 3: when it's just like, okay, well we get that. You

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Speaker 3: can move forward now and in the same sort of place.

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Speaker 3: I feel like this movie just kind of at times

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Speaker 3: it bathes in its own bathos. And yes, there's just

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Speaker 3: not a sense of you know, okay, we understand it.

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Speaker 3: You're obsessed. It's not healthy. Your assistant played by a

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Speaker 3: much more capable and you know, world wise person keeps

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Speaker 3: pointing out to you the exact same thing over and

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Speaker 3: over and over, and it's kind of tiresome.

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Speaker 4: Move on, Bud, And I think I would surprised to

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Speaker 4: be watching. It's like, how did the script you Eat

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Speaker 4: reader even get past the first page of the script?

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Speaker 4: Because the first that opening narration where Hugh Jackman is

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Speaker 4: talking about memory as like beads in the necklace of time,

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Speaker 4: and it's like that, no, you've got you can't do this,

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Speaker 4: You've got to get rid of the script.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's dreadful, this is.

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Speaker 4: Grim, But at the same time, it's also an you know,

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Speaker 4: attached to this awesome shot. I mean, like, I so

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Speaker 4: desperately wanted to learn more inhabit this same world with

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Speaker 4: just with a different story. It's like, like, just like,

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Speaker 4: I like the idea, I think exceptually it's so smart.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like the idea that Miami could exist in

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Speaker 4: some form being that, you know, water logged, but also

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Speaker 4: just the idea of art deco South Beach being such

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Speaker 4: a natural for Noir. I thought that was all smart.

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Speaker 4: You know, you just kind of wish that kind of

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Speaker 4: intelligence and weight, a good kind of weight, would carry

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Speaker 4: over with us in the movie. But it's kind of

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Speaker 4: a bad kind of weight that the film feels like

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Speaker 4: a pretty heavy meal that is still not that nutritious.

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Speaker 8: The opening moments made me feel like it was influenced

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Speaker 8: by the version of Blade Runner with the narration narration

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Speaker 8: rather than the other cuts.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it definitely has a it's a little it's

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Speaker 3: a little like sand in the hourglass. There are the

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Speaker 3: days of our lives in terms of of theme, but

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Speaker 3: it's also a little all these moments of you lost,

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Speaker 3: like tears and rain.

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Speaker 4: Yes, memories are perfect, Tisa, I don't even think that's

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Speaker 4: even true. You know, these perfect I don't you know?

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Speaker 8: The memories don't hot the passes and hot us. If anything,

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Speaker 8: we hot it I guess.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure what that metaphor means or what

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Speaker 3: you're trying to get at there, but I think that

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Speaker 3: the reason that the story feels that way, the sense

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Speaker 3: that there are more interesting stories going on elsewhere, is

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Speaker 3: that the fine details in this movie are really interesting.

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Speaker 3: I kind of love that you find out sort of

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Speaker 3: in passing that Newton and Jackman's business helping people remember things.

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Speaker 3: I want to say, we can remember before you wholesale

248
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Speaker 3: in Philip k decka vein is just a really fly

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Speaker 3: by night operation with some shoddy equipment. You know, we

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Speaker 3: get just this barest anas.

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Speaker 8: It's clearly built for something else. Yeah, kind of retrofit it.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, something that it feels like they maybe

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Speaker 3: bought it off a junk dealer and kind of like

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Speaker 3: spun up this struggling business from it. But you get

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Speaker 3: to see, in addition to all of those other things

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Speaker 3: that Scott mentioned about what else this technology is used for,

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Speaker 3: you also see like what the rich can do with

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Speaker 3: it in terms of, you know, plugging their their dying

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Speaker 3: loved ones into these machines so they can just like

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Speaker 3: live forever in their happy memories. The way that the

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Speaker 3: film deals with the military. I thought was really interesting.

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Speaker 3: It's never foregrounded, it's never a big deal, but it's

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Speaker 3: significant at a couple of different points that Jack man

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Speaker 3: Noon's characters served together. You know that they have this

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Speaker 3: bond of people who've been in military conflict together, and

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Speaker 3: that recurs throughout the film, not just with them, but

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Speaker 3: with other people that they connect to because of that

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Speaker 3: feeling of having been in the wars together, of having

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Speaker 3: been in service together. And it's not a major theme

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Speaker 3: of the film, it's just a really consistent detail that

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Speaker 3: I think helps this world feel real and lived in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it doesn't even suggest what the dividing lines might

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Speaker 4: have been, you know. I mean, this is a civil war,

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Speaker 4: right that they were fighting in.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they ever say civil war. They say

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Speaker 3: the wars. You know, it suggests to me that, you know,

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Speaker 3: probably America went to war in the Middle East to

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Speaker 3: preserve access to oil. Possibly there were wars in different

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Speaker 3: parts of the country, certainly over land as Crystal another shot.

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Speaker 4: You know, you can't just you can't just give that

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Speaker 4: one up. You gotta go gotta this time, this time

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Speaker 4: will be different.

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Speaker 3: I think it's great that the movie doesn't address that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, maybe not.

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Speaker 5: I I.

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Speaker 4: Think just generally I wanted, you know, I don't necessarily

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Speaker 4: need the movie to explain how the world came to

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Speaker 4: be as it is. I think I just wanted a

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Speaker 4: better story to take place in that environment, period, and

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Speaker 4: one that I think could have revealed that world in

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Speaker 4: a little more detail. You don't need to have, you know,

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Speaker 4: a backstory told to you. That's not really what I

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Speaker 4: would want, but it seemed it still seemed to me

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Speaker 4: that the story that was being told was rather puny

295
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Speaker 4: in nature and almost didn't take advantage of this technology

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Speaker 4: and its potential. Really, right, I mean, like all these

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Speaker 4: other little stories that we see, you know, other clients

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Speaker 4: that we see going to pay for this service, they

299
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Speaker 4: have different kinds of stories and different and that might

300
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Speaker 4: be as interesting and more interesting than the when we

301
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Speaker 4: end up sticking with right, I mean, like, I guess

302
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Speaker 4: what a woman who is who's like, who's with her

303
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Speaker 4: deceased lover or something right or ex husband or something

304
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Speaker 4: is something where she really relives that same memory over

305
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Speaker 4: and over again and she says something effective of how

306
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 4: you know, when they offer just to give it to her,

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Speaker 4: she says that she needs to feel that feel all

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Speaker 4: that in the machine. It's it's like there's something a

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Speaker 4: little bit you know, eternal sunshiny about that little story

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Speaker 4: thread that I maybe long for a more you know,

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Speaker 4: authentic emotional experience than we experience then we get here.

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Speaker 3: But wait that I mean the woman that you're talking

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Speaker 3: about is a big part of the story. Like we

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Speaker 3: find out that that man that she wanted to be

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Speaker 3: with wash was the rich guy who died.

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Speaker 4: And oh right, okay, well and all that stuff. Yes,

317
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Speaker 4: every everything's connected, but I mean, I think at that moment,

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Speaker 4: though you can kind of imagine something different. I just

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Speaker 4: you know, it just didn't Yeah, just it all felt

320
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Speaker 4: too many to me. And that you know, from the

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Speaker 4: songs that she would sing to sort of status as

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Speaker 4: a as kind of a chantus. Just it was just

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Speaker 4: all very stylized. It felt like the characters were part

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Speaker 4: of the decors.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean to me, that comes out of

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Speaker 3: the noir roots, like the idea of her being a singer,

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Speaker 3: which is sort of like Hayes code era being a prostitute.

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Speaker 3: You know, she basically dolls herself up and sells her

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Speaker 3: image to men, and it's sort of you know, it's

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Speaker 3: beautiful because she makes art, but it's terrible because she's

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Speaker 3: selling herself. Like all of those sort of encoded ideas

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Speaker 3: of like who the lounge singer is that has kept

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Speaker 3: that character coming up in cinema over and over and

334
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Speaker 3: over for coming up on a century now, at this

335
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Speaker 3: point it felt a little cliche.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 3: I did have a slightly hard time not thinking of

338
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Speaker 3: who framed Roger Rabbit during a big chantu scene punny,

339
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Speaker 3: and so you know, it's I think it's meant to

340
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Speaker 3: be mannered, because it's it's meant to be like leading

341
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Speaker 3: you through, like you know, this is the future version

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Speaker 3: of this storyline that we all know so well.

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Speaker 8: I mean, it's very aware of itself as a noir

344
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Speaker 8: right down to the to the shady gangster that that

345
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 8: necessitates the trip over to New Orleans, and then you know,

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Speaker 8: the rich family that's insulated from from consequences. I mean,

347
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Speaker 8: I like the way it drew all that in and

348
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Speaker 8: and kind of showed them as as sort of eternal

349
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Speaker 8: nore features. I think I think we are. I think

350
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Speaker 8: we're I think we are kind of right in pinpointing

351
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Speaker 8: the actual narrative itself, and then the characters as as

352
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Speaker 8: sort of the main problems with this film, which which

353
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Speaker 8: does get a lot conceptually, it has a lot going

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Speaker 8: for it.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious how you to process Hugh Jackman's character, because,

356
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Speaker 3: you know, in keeping with the noir theme, like the

357
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Speaker 3: theme of the protagonist being kind of a patsy who's

358
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Speaker 3: getting let around by the nose and everybody else knows

359
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 3: more than him is a time honored tradition, and we

360
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 3: see that here, and as Patsy characters are often people

361
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,120
Speaker 3: who you sort of feel for because they're going through

362
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 3: rough stuff while not necessarily thinking that they're particularly smart

363
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 3: or particularly good at what they do. You know, you

364
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 3: want them to get to the end of their journey

365
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 3: and maybe figure out how they've been played and then

366
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Speaker 3: do better next time, but you don't necessarily think of

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Speaker 3: them as heroes exactly. Here, Hugh Jackman's character, for me

368
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,640
Speaker 3: just kind of stretched over the line into not quite

369
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 3: a stalker, but like a little bit of that creepo vibe,

370
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 3: like she's moved on. She doesn't need you chasing her down,

371
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Speaker 3: asking everybody who's ever touched her questions and throwing everybody

372
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Speaker 3: else's life off kilter. Like he violates a lot of

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Speaker 3: privacy along the way. And I kept thinking as I

374
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Speaker 3: was watching, like, there's definitely viewers that are going to

375
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 3: see this character as a romantic, a deep ro who

376
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 3: cares about this troubled woman and will do anything to

377
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Speaker 3: protect her and is just like an unvarnished hero. And

378
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 3: I'm not that person. I don't know many people that are.

379
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 3: But like, can you can you see him as like

380
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 3: the heroic character in the story?

381
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Speaker 6: Can you?

382
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Speaker 3: How do you feel about him?

383
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Speaker 8: I think he's a standard or detective with not a

384
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 8: whole lot of extra thought put into it, beyond hiring

385
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 8: you Jackman. This is usually a pretty good idea and

386
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 8: it's fine here. But but but yeah, it's definitely here.

387
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 8: It's a recycled Raymond Chandler type.

388
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Speaker 4: Does he seem like a down and dirty enough guy

389
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Speaker 4: to be playing a role like this? He doesn't, you know,

390
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 4: he's yeah, I mean there's something kind of like two

391
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 4: movie starish or big about him. I mean he's not,

392
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 4: he doesn't. He's not a Humphrey Bogart type at all.

393
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Speaker 4: I mean, he's just he's too much in control of

394
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 4: himself and his emotions to uh to really come off

395
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 4: as somebody who is vulner and obsessed and kind of

396
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 4: creepy and like, just there's something too squeaky clean. I

397
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 4: guess about Hugh Jackman that makes him kind of a

398
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 4: little bit off of this role.

399
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Speaker 8: For me, you kind of want to I want to

400
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 8: like a Peter Sarsgard type in there or something.

401
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, somebody like that. I mean, there

402
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 4: are definitely plenty of people who could have played this role,

403
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 4: and this is almost kind of like, yeah, I just

404
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 4: I he almost didn't can't believe he would be the

405
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 4: type to act as impulsively as he does with May

406
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 4: you Know again, just because he's just too too much

407
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 4: of a straight hour.

408
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it to buy like a lightning bolte

409
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 8: of love and passion that that uh that you know,

410
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 8: overwhelms all his better judgment and you don't really get that.

411
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 9: No.

412
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 3: I can sort of see him as an idealist, as

413
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 3: a frustrated idealist in a world that doesn't support idealism

414
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: at all, and I can sort of believe that he

415
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 3: like he fell into this relationship I kept. Sin City

416
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 3: is the other movie that maybe the comic came to

417
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 3: mind more than the movie, because the.

418
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 8: Movie's two episodes in a row. We talked about Sun City.

419
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Speaker 3: I know, right, it's a connection we should have saved

420
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,959
Speaker 3: for connections, but that sort of obsession with I can

421
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 3: believe that people living in this crapsack world would hold

422
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 3: on to something that brought life into their lives, you know,

423
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: that brought color into their lives. I can more or

424
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 3: less believe him as the character that he's playing. He's

425
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 3: maybe too healthy for it, you know, spend given the

426
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 3: amount of time he spends shirtless in the tank, It's

427
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: it's kind of clear that he's got a body that

428
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 3: he buffed up for superhero films as opposed to the

429
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 3: body of somebody, you know, living out of fast food

430
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 3: containers and you know, not very much food illicitly grabbed

431
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 3: between jobs. But you know, as a soppy romantic, I

432
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 3: can kind of believe him.

433
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Speaker 4: I like that you've brought the word crapsack back into

434
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 4: the podcast, because that was that was the kind of

435
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 4: a standout word from your review of the shows, like

436
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 4: it's a crapsack future.

437
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: I picked that up from TV Tropes. It's actually a

438
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: very common term for like stories TV film stories with

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: terrible futures, And I just think it's so evocative. You know,

440
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: this is a crapsack world, This is a crapsack future.

441
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 8: Don't you feel like sometimes TV tropes isn't a business

442
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 8: of coining terms versus like defining them though, I think.

443
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 3: It's it's it's defining them and giving them names that

444
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 3: you immediately recognize. I think that that's one of the

445
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 3: services it provides, is like we all know that trope

446
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 3: where somebody takes a hit to the head and loses

447
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: their memory, what do you call that thing? And giving

448
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: us all a term that we can share, like we

449
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 3: all we all know about like dark gritty stories where

450
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 3: everybody's sad and there's not a lot of hope because

451
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: you're in the future and everything's come apart. But like

452
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: slapping the label crapsack world and it gives us a

453
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 3: language we can all speak together.

454
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 4: No, I think you definitely know what kind of world

455
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 4: it is when you call it crapsack. I think I

456
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 4: think you know. As far as the other part of

457
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 4: this romance goes, I think Rebecca Ferguson is quite good

458
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: and quite well cast, and there's just a kind of

459
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 4: she's just very you know, you know, evocative of that

460
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 4: exact type of role that she's playing. There is something

461
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 4: kind of there is kind of an old school vivaciousness

462
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 4: and enigmatic quality I guess to her that makes her

463
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,959
Speaker 4: well suited for that role. I just thought the two

464
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 4: of them together didn't make a lot of make as

465
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 4: much sense as I wanted. But I think the problem

466
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 4: was him.

467
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 6: Yeah.

468
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 3: I think she's very glamorous and very very convincing as

469
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 3: somebody who's consciously playing a role and trying to sell

470
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: herself to somebody and kind of changes that role depending

471
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: on where she is. I also think Tindy Wen Newton

472
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: is great in this movie, as she is in so

473
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 3: many things, and she's.

474
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 4: Great in Westworld too, So which is you know, I

475
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: guess why she's deployed here by Lisa Joy.

476
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly, but I feel like here she's given much

477
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 3: less to chew on. I honestly think that this movie

478
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: was influenced so much by Strange Days that it feels

479
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: like her character was just kind of slapped in here

480
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 3: to be the the Angela Bassett of this movie, and

481
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 3: I want better things for her. I want better things

482
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 3: for her character than moping around after this drippy guy

483
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 3: who just doesn't really see her at all.

484
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, well maybe maybe season two of Reminiscence will give

485
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 4: you more of that character. It'll be you know, if

486
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: this were actually not a movie on HBO, then even

487
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 4: with the reaction at Scott and you feel like this

488
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 4: would get the get the green light for the second

489
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: season just based on the world building part of it alone.

490
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 4: Westworld is still three seasons and still going so anyway, Well,

491
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 4: we'll be right back after this break to talk about

492
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 4: the connections between Reminiscence and Eternal Sunshine on the Spotless Mind.

493
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 6: Tomorrow morning is knocking stalk your fridge? Now, how about

494
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 6: a creamy mocha Rappaccinia drink or a sweet Manilla smooth

495
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 6: caramel maybe or a white chocolate mocha, whichever you choose,

496
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 6: Delicious coffee waits, find Starbucks, Rappacino drinks wherever you buy

497
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 6: your groceries.

498
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 7: Well, you tell me something I've been wondering about before

499
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 7: you performed last night. You were crying Why I was

500
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 7: my memory?

501
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 4: Shouldn't you have just seen the things I was looking at?

502
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 7: Close your eyes. It's a little demonstration to answer your question.

503
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 7: So you have a boyfriend who someone answered the question

504
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 7: nice clothes. No, I'm not involved right now, and for

505
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 7: the purposes of this experiment will give something more elemental. Yeah,

506
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 7: first kiss, feature of the moment, Charlie move okay, the

507
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 7: way young Charlie approached and the kiss itself not just

508
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 7: the beginning.

509
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 4: All kiss.

510
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 7: Tell them mom to break away, and by the end

511
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 7: you saw yourself as well as him, didn't you. Happens

512
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 7: with everyone.

513
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 4: Now it's time for connections, when we bring these two

514
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 4: films together to talk about all the things they have

515
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 4: in common. Well, the big thing they have in common.

516
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 4: And then the reason probably why we did this pairing

517
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 4: is the theme of memory and the way it's filtered

518
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 4: through you know, the science fiction genre in different ways.

519
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 4: This is Reminiscence is more of a science fiction noir

520
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 4: and more of a science fiction and romance. But Keith,

521
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 4: what do you what do you make of this theme?

522
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 8: If you if you compare them, I think I think

523
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 8: you get a sense that Eternal Sunshine actually, I mean,

524
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 8: obviously are these are different, while loosely in the same genre,

525
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 8: are very different films. But I think Eternal Sunshine has

526
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 8: a take on what memories are and what they mean

527
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 8: and how they influence one's personality and what makes them important.

528
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 8: Where Reminiscence it feels like it's more just it's just

529
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 8: a plot device in a way. It's it's there's not

530
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 8: really be too much of an emotional component to it

531
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 8: beyond the somewhat did dementia adult wealthy woman who keeps

532
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 8: reliving her engagement and you know, does so in a

533
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 8: clock repair place. So I think you're supposed to bring

534
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 8: to mind miss Havisham from Great Expectations. Uh, you know,

535
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 8: I think there you kind of get an idea of

536
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 8: how memories affect anyone emotionally. But that's and you do

537
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 8: get people talking about it like that, like Angela Sarafian

538
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 8: who we talked about is reliving a pleasant memory with

539
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 8: their lover. It turns out to be an important role

540
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 8: in the film itself, but I think it's more talk

541
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 8: It's more talked about than felt where the turns sometime

542
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 8: really makes you feel it.

543
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 9: Yeah.

544
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting that both of these films are

545
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: kind of fundamentally center on a man who's trying to

546
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: retreat into memory, in one case more literally than the other.

547
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: But in both cases, these memories that are being explored

548
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: have their ups and downs. They have their good side

549
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 3: and their bad side, and in both cases the man

550
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: is kind of consciously choosing to ignore the bad side

551
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: and ignore the problems and the questions of the relationship

552
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: in order to focus on the brighter, lighter memories. And

553
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: I think that's something we all do or try to do.

554
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: I think sometimes the darker stuff haunts us and is

555
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: hard to exercise. But I think both of these films

556
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: do kind of like tap into a very real thing

557
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: about memory, about you know, the way we hang on

558
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: to certain specific moments. Both both of these films just

559
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: kind of fetishize that experience of being alone with somebody

560
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 3: that you love and just having a quiet moment just

561
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: being together. Both of them just kind of make that

562
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: a really important and central thing.

563
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 9: I think it's.

564
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: Interesting that neither one of them, you know, there's a

565
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: sex scene in Reminiscence, there's implied sex in Eternal Sunshine,

566
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: but for both of them, like the act of just

567
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: quietly being with your lover just seems to be the

568
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 3: memory that pins down these relationships, the memory that both

569
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 3: of these men rely on to define their love well thing.

570
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 4: I think that's a point of contrast between the two

571
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: in terms of memory is I think that in Eternal Sunshine,

572
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 4: memories aren't fixed in the way they seem to be

573
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 4: in reminiscence and reminiscence, he's going through memories that are

574
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 4: going to try to help him solve a puzzle. You know,

575
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 4: these are things that are happened, These are these are

576
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: perfect beads on the necklace of time that he is

577
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 4: kind of going through. In Eternal Sunshine, memories are quite

578
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 4: are changing. The fact that that they're being erased, actively erased,

579
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: there's that part of it. But then is also the

580
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: part of Joel revisiting these moments that may be painful

581
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 4: for him. In one instance, when he's reflecting upon the

582
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: relationship that did not work, these memories that were of

583
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 4: the great times that they had together perhaps sour when

584
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: when relationship also goes sour. But then you can look

585
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 4: at them again from the distance of time or and

586
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 4: from another perspective, and they take on a different meaning.

587
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 4: So I think there's kind of a real sense of

588
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 4: Eternal Sunshine wrestling with the significance of memory in terms

589
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 4: of building as kind of the building blocks of what

590
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 4: make us who we are, and and you know, having

591
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 4: a complicated relationship with memories that that isn't really a

592
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 4: part of reminiscence. And what makes it particularly odd is

593
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 4: that is that that is that's West World. I mean

594
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 4: West World is that is the that's the primary theme

595
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 4: of West World about memories of being the construct of being,

596
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 4: the building blocks of humanity. I mean, that's what kind

597
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: of makes the androids in West World more human than

598
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 4: the humans because they they're because they do have all

599
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: these these memories that they can they can build upon,

600
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: and that give give them dimension. And I feel I

601
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 4: feel like that level of exploration is is a little

602
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: bit absent in Reminiscence, despite you know, having this machine

603
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: being a big important part of it.

604
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 8: I think that's why we can all agree that TV

605
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 8: shows are better than movies.

606
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: Is that why we're pivoting this to your next TV show?

607
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 4: Yeah?

608
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: I do think that there's just more of an interest

609
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: in subjectivity in Eternal Sunshine. Part of that is because

610
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: the memories are breaking down, so you have these, you know,

611
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: visions of moments and memories colliding and kind of melting

612
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: into each other. But I also think that that's much

613
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: more how we actually remember things, you know, in reminiscence.

614
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 3: It's a big plot point that even if you don't

615
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 3: consciously remember something, it's recorded on your braining grams, like

616
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 3: so thoroughly that, for instance, you can find out, like

617
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: where your lost keys are, even if you didn't notice

618
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: dropping them, some super observant part of you picked up

619
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 3: like every object that's under that dresser or everything that

620
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: was sitting on top of the table, and the technology

621
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: can recreate it with perfect fidelity. I don't think that's

622
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: really how memory works. It's it's good for the story,

623
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: but I doubt that most of us, you know, put

624
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: into a memory regard your Haitian machine, would be like, oh, yes,

625
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: I remember the titles of every book on that shelf

626
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: because I glanced at it briefly.

627
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 4: What a strange kind of twist here, incidentally about I mean,

628
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 4: the fact is, you know, in reminiscence, we can see

629
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: the memory, the memory is projected, and so Hugh Jackman

630
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 4: is also a voyeur in that situation. He's he's peering

631
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 4: into a private into private moments in a person's life,

632
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: and of course he doesn't want to watch that stuff.

633
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 4: You know, he's embarrassed when she would Rebecca Ferguson is

634
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 4: unashamed to just kind of like, you know, take off

635
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 4: her clothes because she's like, you're going to see that anyway.

636
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 4: But when when when it's projected he turns away, it's

637
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 4: like you think about, like what would Brian de Palmer do?

638
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 4: You know, it'd be a very different film. But I

639
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 4: mean like there's a whole voyeuristic.

640
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: Aspect, a good rubric for a movie.

641
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 4: But it's a voyeuristic there's a voyeuristic aspect to the

642
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 4: way these memories are projected and in the way other people,

643
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 4: not just the person with the memory, can engage and

644
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 4: know what these memories are. That's really not explored at

645
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: all by the film.

646
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: Oh I disagree. I think that moment where Hugh Jackman

647
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: kind of forces himself into the memory projection device in

648
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 3: order to place himself in the position of the person

649
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: who's actually re experiencing the memory, like trying to be

650
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 3: in a place. I think that this movie's really most

651
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 3: interesting fundamental idea is that by stealing other people's memories, effectively,

652
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: he can be in places that he never was, He

653
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: can experience things that he wasn't there for. And that

654
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: moment when he sees her interacting with another man and

655
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 3: literally puts himself in front of her so he can

656
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 3: pretend that she's speaking to him, singing to him, touching him,

657
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: that this memory is his memory, or that it's not

658
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: a memory at all, and that it's actually happening. I

659
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: think that's one of the movies' most moments, and certainly

660
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: one of its most authentic emotional moments.

661
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just it's really awesome and conceptually,

662
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 8: I just don't know it's really worked for me in

663
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 8: the moment though that much.

664
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it's Yeah. I guess maybe that's the thing

665
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 4: about there being that unfortunate disconnect between the way the

666
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 4: film is conceived, which is quite pristine and uh, thoughtful,

667
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 4: and then the way it is actually executed, which is

668
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 4: which feels synthetic and not it feels synthetic and feels

669
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 4: like not emotionally resonant. I guess there's just something it

670
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 4: just needs a little bit of the grit of human experience,

671
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 4: needs to kind of like find its way in a

672
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 4: little bit more.

673
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: Oh. Sure, it's very polished, it's certainly very uh, it's

674
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 3: a very shiny crapsac world. It's a very glossy version

675
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: of a terrible future.

676
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I was really excited to see it,

677
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 4: just based on the trailer, just because I thought the

678
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 4: world of the film looked cool, and also it wasn't

679
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 4: based on previously existing I mean, like that's where my

680
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 4: standards are these days. It's like, not, Wow, a science

681
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 4: fiction movie that looks really cool that apparently appears to

682
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 4: be not based on something. It's not like a reworking

683
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 4: of Cinderella or something.

684
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: Not a directory working. But as I alluded to you earlier,

685
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: it has so much in common with Catherine Bigelow's Strange Days.

686
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: It just it seems to draw so many elements of

687
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: the world, the technology, people's reactions, the characters, the reactions

688
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: to each other, the use of music. Like, there's just

689
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 3: a lot there, and we to be on the table here.

690
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 3: The reason that we're going to do a side episode

691
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: about Strange Days is because it's just unavailable. You can

692
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: maybe pick up a copy on DVD at your local library,

693
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: or you know, pay big bucks for somebody selling used

694
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: or whatever, but it's not streaming. It's not available on

695
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: new media. So we felt like it would be unfair

696
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 3: to do it as a pairing here, but while it

697
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: is a direct like sequel or remake or reboot, it

698
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like an original story to me.

699
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 4: No, no, that's true. And I mean, of course, you know,

700
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 4: there are plenty of the influences as well. I mentioned

701
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 4: I'd mentioned Altered States too as being kind of a

702
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 4: big one, and if you want to get even further,

703
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 4: going further back into into kind of you know, experiential

704
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: movies of that sort, you go to like Brainstorm, the

705
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 4: Christopher Walking science fiction movie does the same kind of thing,

706
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 4: you know. But of course the other thing with Strange

707
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 4: Days and reminiscence is this is the drug element as well,

708
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 4: the idea of these memories becoming experiences that you get

709
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 4: become addicted to and that that you can be trapped

710
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 4: by and kind of they could be have kind of

711
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 4: a toxic influence in your life if you, uh, if

712
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 4: you over if you overdo it.

713
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 8: I felt that there could have been more of that

714
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 8: of this, though it almost feels a little underplayed.

715
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 3: I mean, it's an interesting contrast between Charlie Coffman's Stuck

716
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: in My Brain and I don't want to be there

717
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: versus the way reminiscence ends with somebody literally choosing to

718
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 3: just be kind of permanently stuck in his own memories.

719
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 3: Brainstorm is a really good comparison that I hadn't thought of.

720
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, that that idea that nostalgia is a drug,

721
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 3: nostalgia is a is an addiction, and that it can

722
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: distort your present by dragging you back into the past

723
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 3: and making the past the only place you want to be.

724
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 3: That certainly does make sense.

725
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 4: I love that I do a podcast with people who

726
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 4: are like, oh, yeah, Brainstorm. Of course Brainstorm, because you

727
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 4: know that is not the most heavily watched in film,

728
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 4: you know. I don't think a lot of people remember

729
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 4: Brainstorm like we might have. But I always thought the

730
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: concept of Brainstorm was so cool, you know, and I

731
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 4: think it was. I think it was either shot in

732
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 4: seventy or blown up in seventy and so you could like,

733
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: you know that those you can go down that roller

734
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 4: coaster in seventy millimeter and it's just like you're there.

735
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 4: So what else? What else? In terms of connections between

736
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: these movies, I mean, well, one thing, one point of

737
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 4: contrast would be the style of these films, both of

738
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 4: them in their purchases genre too. I mean, these are both.

739
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 4: These are science fiction movies that are stylish in their

740
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 4: own ways, but their approach to science fiction and the

741
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 4: approach to style can not be more different.

742
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we talked earlier about Gondry's kind of

743
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 3: not a lot of money on hand approach to special effects.

744
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: There's there's another sequence where Joel keeps turning around and

745
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 3: every time he turns around, Clementiney is storming out a

746
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 3: different door and he's seeing her from behind. And that's

747
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: one of the places in the movie that I definitely

748
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: thought had had been some kind of digital effect, but

749
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: it was just accomplished with body doubles, you know, with

750
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: different people dressed the same way and the camera snapping

751
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: back and forth as they as they storm out doors.

752
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: And contrast that with something that just like lives in

753
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: the cgi place. That's it's just drenched in it, and

754
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 3: it's it's definitely an interesting interest, particularly in terms of

755
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 3: what the larger world looks like. You know, Eternal Sunshine's

756
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: larger world is a world where you know, memory technology

757
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 3: looks like sticking a calendar on somebody's head. It's not

758
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 3: high tech, it's not glitzy.

759
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 8: Yeah. I think science fiction is definitely definitely just a

760
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 8: means to an end an Eternal Sunshine and to some

761
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 8: degree in Reminiscence too, when you think about.

762
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 4: It, I like the I really like the style of

763
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 4: both of these films. I think I think it suits

764
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 4: the purposes of of what each filmmaker is trying to

765
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 4: accomplish well, you know, and the look is consistent. I'm

766
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 4: not going to talk about Reminiscence being worse than Eternal

767
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 4: Sunshine on that on that front, because I think visually

768
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 4: it's where it needs to be, which again is the

769
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 4: West World problem of just like that the world West

770
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 4: World looks amazing, always looks amazing. The world is so

771
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 4: well conceived, and you just wish that it's the other

772
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 4: stuff that bothers you. And I think that was that's

773
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 4: the same. That's the case here with Reminiscence, which maybe

774
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 4: you know, maybe the issue, if there's any issue style wised,

775
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 4: is that could be a little bit too slick for

776
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 4: its own good. I mean I think about like, there's

777
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 4: a sequence a shootout in the film that's set to

778
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 4: some piece of music, some piece of pop music. Do

779
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 4: you remember which one that would would be where he's

780
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 4: where Hugh Jackman's face is being in a tank and

781
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 4: tandawez Newton's trying to trying to shoot him out of there. Yeah,

782
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean that that's a that's such a

783
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: sequence out of West World to have this kind of

784
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 4: slow mo vvery stylish shootout sequence to a pop song. Yeah,

785
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: they all, of course they did these kind of like

786
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 4: in West World, there are these player piano renditions of

787
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 4: popular songs, and here it's like tainted love coming out

788
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 4: of a jukebox. And it's fine, it's just it's a

789
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: little it's all a little bit too familiar. At this point, we.

790
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: Should talk a little bit about the music in these

791
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 3: two movies, if only to talk about how that the

792
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 3: opening the mon talk sequence on the train has this

793
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: like jingly whimsical soundtrack to it that's just like pure

794
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: Michelle Gondry, like coming across, as though it's all a

795
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: whole lot more playful than it is.

796
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 4: Uh.

797
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 3: I like I process those early meetings as like Clementine

798
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: is desperate for atension, she's bored, she's you know, a

799
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 3: cofmin character. She's not she's not comfortable in her own

800
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: skin or her own head, and she goes and bugs

801
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: a stranger who's like flattered and excited to have a

802
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: woman talking to him. After the after the uncomfortable and

803
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: annoying voiceover at the beginning, which is something else they

804
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 3: both have in common. Uh So it's a very it's

805
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 3: kind of a squirmy scene as he tries to overcome

806
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: his natural awkwardness and she just desperately tries to provoke

807
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: a reaction out of him, which she keeps refusing. And

808
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: the music over it is just like it's like practically

809
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 3: Calliope music. It's so bouncy and strange.

810
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, John Bryan score, and he did the same kind

811
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 4: of thing with Punch Drunk Love. Punch Drunk Love also

812
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 4: that kind of that kind of almost disturbing jauntiness to it.

813
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 4: But the thing about it carnivalesque. But but the thing

814
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 4: about Eternal Sunshine is that that same score, when you

815
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 4: get to it like a main theme, is quite lovely.

816
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: I mean, like it's a really beautiful, beautiful score. So

817
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 4: it kind of is you kind of get both parts.

818
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 4: You get you get this this kind of unnerving jauntiness,

819
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 4: but then it leads to something quite romantic. The music

820
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 4: and of course I really like that the Beck cover

821
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 4: that opens and closes the film too, for it's everybody's

822
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 4: got to learn sometime who who is the uh who's

823
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 4: the original?

824
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 8: I had to look it up, but it's it's the Corgis,

825
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 8: which is a a British band and the originals from

826
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 8: nineteen eighty.

827
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 3: They sound adorable and bouncy.

828
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 4: No, it's a really really nice music that you would expect,

829
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 4: I mean from Michelle Gondry who certainly knows his music.

830
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 4: And it was a good time. I mean it was

831
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 4: it was, Uh, how far away was back from the

832
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 4: Golden Age at that point that that album is?

833
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 9: What?

834
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 4: Would they be? Pretty similar time periods? Those those Eternal Sunshine.

835
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 4: The Golden Age feels like the Golden Ages, lightly after

836
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 4: the Golden Age.

837
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 8: Lightly the gold Age is considerably after. You're thinking of

838
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 8: the other album, which is.

839
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: Sea Change, We're definitely.

840
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was two years after Sea Change.

841
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 4: Sea Change, That's why I'm not thinking the gold The

842
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 4: Golden Age is the name of a song that's on

843
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 4: Sea Change, like the first track.

844
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 8: Right, And then there's an album Morning Phase. Morning Phase

845
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 8: is the album that basically sounds like Sea Change but

846
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 8: not as good. Although it want a Grammy?

847
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, Grammys? What are you gonna do? They give them

848
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 4: out to everybody these days, don't they.

849
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 8: It's true?

850
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: Would you guys like to talk about some connections between

851
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: these two films?

852
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 4: Right, let's go back.

853
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: I know that I brought up music, but I want

854
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 3: to jump suddenly and jarringly away from that topic in

855
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 3: order to talk about another connection, which is the sudden,

856
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 3: jarring jumps that both of these movies have. Both of

857
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 3: them tell their stories asynchronously. Both of them get a

858
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 3: lot of I think, energy out of unsettling the audience

859
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: and making them a little unsure like where and when

860
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: they are by telling the story out of order and

861
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 3: kind of requiring you to put the puzzle pieces together.

862
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 3: And I think Reminiscence. One of my other favorite things

863
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 3: about Reminiscence is the way the memory technology is used

864
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 3: to enable that kind of asynchronous storytelling. I don't know

865
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: that I need least a joy to continue playing the

866
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 3: West World, like when are we?

867
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 6: Like?

868
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 3: Is this happening? Or is this somebody's memory of something happening?

869
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 3: Or is this somebody watching somebody's memory of something happening?

870
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 6: Like?

871
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 3: I could do fine without that game. It doesn't I

872
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: think add a whole lot here. But it does mean

873
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 3: that she can tell the story in the order that

874
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 3: she wants it to, and I think that that's a

875
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 3: useful thing for the way the story unfolds, Like she

876
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 3: doesn't have to rely on Hugh Jackman's character finding people

877
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 3: and asking them and having them tell him about things

878
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 3: that happened. She can just jump directly into it. But

879
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 3: in Eternal Sunshine, it's much more of a puzzle box

880
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: of a movie, given that you go directly from what

881
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 3: seems like these characters meeting for the first time to

882
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: this revelation that they're coming out of a relationship, and

883
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: you don't know if you've just jumped forward in time.

884
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 3: You later find out that you're jumping backward in time,

885
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 3: which is not the first interpretation I think most people

886
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 3: would have. I don't know, I mean, what do you

887
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 3: think about how the ways these stories are told out

888
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 3: of order adds to the stories.

889
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 4: I absolutely love the way Eternal Sunshine unfolds. I mean

890
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 4: it threw me for a loop. I don't think I

891
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 4: even got it like the way I was supposed to

892
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 4: the first time I saw it. I've been so you know,

893
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 4: obviously you know, you're you're confused, and you're supposed deltely

894
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 4: very confused when Elijah Wood shows up at the beginning

895
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 4: and kind of like rattles you, and you know when

896
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 4: you know, and then then it's only late that you

897
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: find out that you've that they're you know, meeting each

898
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 4: other for a second time. I think that was I

899
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 4: think that's all really strategically well well done and a

900
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 4: big part of what makes the film as good as

901
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 4: it is. With Reminiscence, I think I think you're right

902
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 4: in that it it does do that West World thing

903
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 4: of pulling the rug out from under you again and

904
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 4: again and again until you're like stop it. It's just

905
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 4: please to stop. But that first, that first pull of

906
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 4: the rug is really effective. I mean, you know, when

907
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 4: when suddenly you're already in this in this scene that

908
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 4: seems a little bit off, you know, that feels a

909
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 4: little like ahead of itself in terms of this, in

910
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 4: terms of where the relationship is at, where the story

911
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 4: is at, and to have that yanked away and discover

912
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 4: that this is all stuff that Hugh Jackman's character is

913
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 4: reliving in the tank, I mean that's effective, But you know,

914
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 4: I think it's it's it becomes a wearying and not

915
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 4: that productive to kind of keep doing that kind of thing,

916
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,280
Speaker 4: because I mean, you're already kind of swimming in the film. Anyway.

917
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 4: It is not the cleanest piece of storytelling. There's a

918
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 4: lot going on. It's very very dense, and so you know,

919
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 4: when you have all that density there to begin with,

920
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 4: and then you're going to throw all of these kind

921
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 4: of like time switches on people, it does not endear.

922
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 3: I'm not sure it ever matters in Reminiscence. I feel

923
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 3: like I might have to watch it again to unravel that,

924
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 3: and I don't feel a need to watch it again. Yeah,

925
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 3: but you know, in Eternal Sunshine, it makes a huge

926
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 3: difference to the story. The fact that they've met before

927
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 3: and in a completely different way than what you see.

928
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 3: The fact that that opening incredibly uncomfortable sort of flirting

929
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: is maybe coming out of both of their very very

930
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: latent memories or senses of dejevus or what have you,

931
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 3: about what they meant to each other. Like that explains

932
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 3: a lot about why she seeks him out when he's

933
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 3: a total stranger, what draws them together and kind of

934
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 3: what pushes them to keep connecting there's just there's a

935
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: lot of ways in which that makes a huge difference

936
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 3: to the story, and I feel like with Reminiscence it's

937
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: mostly just these are the order that these scenes need

938
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: to happen in, and like, however we can justify doing

939
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 3: these scenes, We'll just we'll make.

940
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 4: It that Yeah, for sure. One thing these films have

941
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 4: in common is that they have kind of side romances,

942
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 4: their side feelings I guess that complicate the central romance

943
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 4: and an eternal Sunshine. There is, of course all a

944
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 4: Team Lacuna, which is full where you have Elijah Wood

945
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 4: pursuing his own relationship with Clem Time borrowing all of

946
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 4: Joel's tricks, and then this triangle between Kirsten Dunn, Stockmark Ruffalo,

947
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 4: and Tom Wilkinson. And then there's something I suppose here

948
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 4: between Tander we Newton and Hugh Jackman. Right.

949
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 3: I think that's the explanation for why she keeps chasing

950
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: him down and helping him, why she feels so incredibly

951
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 3: hurt when he rejects her, just her whole affect when

952
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 3: dealing with him. It feels like she's been carrying a

953
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 3: torch for him for a while and just knows that

954
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 3: it's not going to be reciprocated, knows that there's no

955
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 3: point in it, and also knows she's kind of a

956
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: fool for liking this, you know, sad sach who's who

957
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 3: would much rather live in his memories, And the worse

958
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 3: he gets the more she's aware of it, and the

959
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 3: more just kind of sad she gets about it. But

960
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 3: you know, I think she really really cares for him

961
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 3: in a way that's kind of necessary to keep her

962
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 3: in the story. And I think it's an interesting kind

963
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 3: of connection or really difference between these two movies that

964
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 3: you can have that sense of you know, obviously you

965
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 3: don't feel the same way about Elijahi's character, but it's

966
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 3: it's because of what he's doing, whereas, for instance, Mark Ruffalo,

967
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 3: I kind of feel for him. The woman that he's

968
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 3: involved in a relationship with, who he clearly really digs

969
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 3: and is really happy with, is off chasing their boss

970
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: and has already had an affair with their boss, had

971
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 3: it erased, and is now pursuing it again. You know,

972
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 3: he's also just kind of a sad third.

973
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, I realized that that he you know, she signed

974
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 8: off on this, but he's also complicit in The Deception too,

975
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 8: which which casts another different kind of cast a character

976
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 8: in a slightly different light. With Newton, I think it's,

977
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 8: you know, because she is very good, you can kind

978
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 8: of forget that that's that's that's kind of a stock

979
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 8: character too, sort of the loyal gal Friday who is

980
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 8: you know, has to watch her boss throw himself at

981
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 8: other women, kind of miss money Penny. But I think

982
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 8: also you can see that and it's a kind of

983
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 8: a private eye trope as well.

984
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, Yeah, you'd hope for better for Newton

985
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 4: as an actress too. There's it doesn't feel like quite

986
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 4: as media role is she deserves. But I guess if

987
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 4: you want to see that, you see Westworld, she's like

988
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 4: the best thing on that show. Yeah, it is.

989
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: It is kind of a thankless role by comparison. I

990
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 3: don't think that it's like a major theme in either

991
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 3: of these movies, the love triangle and the person off

992
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 3: on the side looking in with Longing. It's just interesting

993
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 3: to me that there's a parallel there, much like it's

994
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: interesting to me that there's a parallel between the really

995
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 3: petty things that the central business does that people come

996
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 3: in and require. In addition to the big important things,

997
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 3: you know, forgetting the love of your life, who has

998
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 3: elected to forgive forget you is a pretty big choice.

999
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 3: But you see other people in that office, and one

1000
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 3: of them is holding a bunch of accouterments for a dog,

1001
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 3: and you know clearly it is said about losing her

1002
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 3: dog and wants to forget her dog. And there's somebody

1003
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: else in there with You don't see much of what

1004
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: he's got, but like there's a sports trophy in it.

1005
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 8: It's a bowling trophy. Yeah, I kind of let you

1006
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 8: run with that story, were you well.

1007
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 3: Exactly there are a lot of ways to interpret it

1008
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 3: just in terms of what exactly he wants to forget,

1009
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 3: but you definitely get the impression that, you know, much

1010
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 3: like some people come to Newton and Jackman to you know,

1011
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: real live their lost dead loves. Other people come in like, hey,

1012
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 3: where to put my keys? And obviously the keys thing

1013
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 3: is a setup, but they're not surprised by it either.

1014
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: You know, they've they've definitely been through that routine before.

1015
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 3: And you know, one guy just wants to hang out

1016
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: with his dog, which is a very specific parallel. You know,

1017
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 3: the man who comes back time and time again to

1018
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 3: remember his dog versus the woman that's coming to a

1019
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: business to forget her dog.

1020
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would counsel the woman to not erase the

1021
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 4: memory of her dog. I know, right, It's like, you know, Petsy,

1022
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 4: lose them and it's really sad, but you don't want

1023
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 4: to you know, those memories are good memories you want

1024
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 4: to throw in the garbage. Maybe she had a more

1025
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 4: complicated relationship with the dogs that we realized.

1026
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 3: Maybe she maybe betrayed the dog in some horrible thanks there.

1027
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of things peede On that she didn't

1028
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 4: want peede.

1029
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 3: On, And I just I think that in the same

1030
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 3: way you look at the world building of Reminiscens and

1031
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 3: want a better story in it. I think it's great

1032
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 3: that Eternal Sunshine has these little details that invite you

1033
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 3: to tell your own stories. You know, why would an

1034
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 3: old lady want to forget her dog? Well, there are

1035
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons, but you're going to have to

1036
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 3: tell that story yourself.

1037
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's that is that is true. I have

1038
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 4: a feeling that another twenty years from now, one film,

1039
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 4: I think people may be talking still talking more about

1040
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 4: Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind than Reminiscence, But in

1041
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 4: terms of availability, Eternal Sunshine The Spotless Mind is streaming

1042
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 4: on most of the usual services, and of course you

1043
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 4: can get it on Blu Ray and DVD. Reminiscence may

1044
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 4: or may not be in theaters still, it really really

1045
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 4: really did not do well in theaters, but it can

1046
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 4: be streamed for the time being on HBO Max. We'll

1047
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 4: be right back with your next picture show.

1048
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,880
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1049
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,719
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1050
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1059
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Speaker 4: Finally, it's time for your next picture show, where you

1060
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 4: catch each other up on films or film relating items

1061
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 4: that you may want to seek out too. Tasha, what

1062
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 4: in the film world has been good for you?

1063
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 3: Well, when I watched this last night, I was not

1064
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 3: thinking about the thematic resonance between this and the two

1065
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: movies that we just talked about, but there actually is one,

1066
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 3: so that's an interesting thing to take it as you will.

1067
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: There's a website called Allarts dot org that is kind

1068
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: of a clearinghouse for ideas and culture. It's a stepping

1069
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 3: out of a nonprofit. They've been doing a program this

1070
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 3: year called Afrofuturism Blackness Revisualized, and if you search for

1071
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 3: those words you'll find this program. Basically, they've got a

1072
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 3: free online library of afrofuturist science fiction films and one

1073
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 3: of the ones that I've been meaning to check out.

1074
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 3: I first heard about this film. It came out in

1075
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, and I heard about it maybe a year

1076
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 3: or two after that out of some film festival, but

1077
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 3: then it just wasn't particularly accessible. It's called Battle Dream

1078
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 3: Chronicle and it is the first full length feature movie

1079
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 3: to come out of Martinique. So it's an animated film

1080
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 3: about a computer virus and kind of intelligent computer virus

1081
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 3: that takes over the world and forces everybody to fight

1082
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 3: in these sort of gladiatorial contests, and the people who

1083
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 3: lose become slaves, and their memories are erased and they

1084
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 3: lose all track of who they were apart from just

1085
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: being contestants in this perpetually ongoing arena, and people level

1086
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 3: up over time and get better and better weapons, but

1087
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 3: the AI grants basically ownership of the country represented by

1088
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 3: a given team to the country that wins the match,

1089
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,439
Speaker 3: you know, pitting champions against each other basically for rule

1090
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 3: over the other country. And as the story takes up,

1091
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 3: one country has basically conquered nearly the entire world through

1092
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 3: this battle dream, basically this synthetic space where people fight

1093
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,959
Speaker 3: each other, and as a result, most of the people

1094
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: in the world don't remember anything except being slaves. It's

1095
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 3: not insignificant that virtually all of the characters are black,

1096
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 3: that this is an afrofuturist world, and that they're trying

1097
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 3: to reclaim their sense of who they are. They're trying

1098
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 3: to reclaim their pride and their lives and their identities.

1099
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 3: It's an action movie. It's a movie that spends a

1100
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 3: lot of time in the arena on these contests of

1101
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 3: collect the keys basically on strategy and the kind of

1102
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 3: superpowers where you yell the name of the thing that

1103
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: you're about to activate and then it activates and throws

1104
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 3: frap at somebody else. And the animation style is very distinctive.

1105
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 3: It reminds me a lot of movies like Cariacu and

1106
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 3: the Sorceress or Fantastic Planet, you know, French films with

1107
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 3: very mannered and stylized animation that's not always the most expressive,

1108
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 3: but that's kind of part of a fairy tale storytelling tradition.

1109
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 3: If you look up stills of this movie, they definite,

1110
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,479
Speaker 3: definitely do not do justice to what the animation looks

1111
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 3: like in motion, which is kind of this smooth gimbal

1112
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,959
Speaker 3: cgi with an overlay that makes it look a little

1113
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 3: more hand painted. It again, is very distinctive, and it's

1114
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 3: not going to be for all tastes. It's not necessarily

1115
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 3: going to be pacing wise, or story wise, or visually

1116
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: to the taste of people who grew up on Pixar films.

1117
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 3: But as this movie builds, as these characters who are

1118
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 3: very very internal, who are not very expressive externally, go

1119
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: just deeper and deeper into what they want and what's

1120
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 3: blocking them from getting it. The emotions of the story

1121
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 3: get really surprisingly large and moving, and just the story

1122
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 3: just kind of gets more and more symbolic in terms

1123
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: of what's at stake. So, you know, it's not a

1124
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 3: movie that you're going to come away from thinking that

1125
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: was better than a Pixar movie. It's a movie that

1126
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 3: animation buffs, I think, should be aware of and interested

1127
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 3: in exploring, you know, kind of the unique voice of

1128
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 3: this story, and you know, just anything to get more

1129
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 3: and varied afrofuturist worlds out there, because they just tend

1130
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 3: to be so distinctly textured and so like unfamiliar to

1131
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 3: a certain kind of Western storytelling trained. I so Battle

1132
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 3: Dream Chronicles it's streaming online for free at all Arts

1133
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 3: dot org. And again, if you just look it up

1134
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 3: under Afrofuturism, Blackness Revisualized or Battle Dream Chronicle, you'll find

1135
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 3: it streaming free at the website, I believe through the

1136
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 3: end of twenty twenty one.

1137
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 4: Nice. Well, yeah, you know, I think Criterion Channel did

1138
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 4: a huge afrofuturism retro within the last year or so,

1139
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 4: and I did not see those films, but very interesting.

1140
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 4: Does seem to be a lot of renewed enthusiasm for

1141
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 4: checking those movies out, so maybe people should do it,

1142
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 4: especially if they don't have to pay anything, they should

1143
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 4: give it a shot.

1144
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you. I haven't dug into the

1145
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 3: rest of the collection. There are a lot of short films,

1146
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 3: a lot of kind of ami surely made films, but

1147
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 3: there are a couple of other features there from other countries,

1148
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 3: and I really want to make the time to look

1149
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 3: into them at some point. All of the rest of

1150
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 3: them are live action. Scott, what about you?

1151
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 4: With the war in Afghanistan finally coming to an end

1152
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 4: after almost twenty years, you know, one as a cinophile

1153
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 4: then starts to think, what are the films about Afghanistan?

1154
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 4: What are the major films? And there are so few,

1155
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 4: you know, a fittingly few for a war that was

1156
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 4: started with great enthusiasm and ended with great drama and controversy,

1157
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 4: but that had a very very long stretch in which

1158
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 4: neglect would be kind of the word you'd use to

1159
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 4: describe the interest level from this country in this war

1160
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 4: that we're actively engaged in for as long as we were.

1161
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 4: And so of course, you know, it doesn't have its

1162
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 4: apocalypse now, it doesn't have its platoon, you know, Hollywood,

1163
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 4: other than a film like Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, which is

1164
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 4: not really just not about Afghanistan at all, but more

1165
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 4: about Tina Fey's character being in Afghanistan. I mean, it

1166
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 4: really just ignored it completely. But there is one film,

1167
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 4: one documentary that I think sort of perfectly summarizes the

1168
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 4: whole experience, and that's Rastreppo. This is Restreppo's a documentary

1169
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 4: by two photojournalists, Tim Heatherington and Sebastian Younger. Tim Heatherington

1170
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 4: ended up losing his life a year after Astreppo came out.

1171
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 4: He was killed by shrapnel in Libya during their civil war,

1172
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 4: but he was a wartime photographer. These guys they embedded

1173
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 4: with an army platoon that was stationed in the Karongal

1174
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 4: Valley in eastern Afghanistan, which at the time was the

1175
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 4: most dangerous outpost in the US military. This is heavily

1176
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 4: this is you know, mountainous territory, you know, heavily controlled

1177
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 4: by the Taliban, by insurgent forces, very hard for to

1178
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 4: make any inroads at all, but that's what they were

1179
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 4: there to do. And the name Restrepo refers to this outpost,

1180
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 4: this advanced outpost that they were trying to establish, or

1181
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 4: that they did establish a little deeper into enemy territory.

1182
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 4: And they named it for a fallen medic named Wanrastrepo.

1183
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 4: And this was their major achievement. This is a fifteen

1184
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 4: month deployment for these these men, you know. And they

1185
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 4: went out at night and they dug and they dug

1186
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 4: and they and they built this encampment that they had

1187
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 4: really designed, you know, which was tactically to the positive

1188
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 4: for them and in kind of a middle fingled finger

1189
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 4: to the enemy, but and of course also put them

1190
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 4: on harm's way. They're all like fish in a barrel.

1191
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 4: And there was something just so profoundly metaphorical, I guess

1192
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 4: about them establishing this place that could not be further

1193
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 4: from nine to eleven or for whatever reason, we were

1194
01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 4: doing in Afghanistan where they're basic target practice for their enemies,

1195
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 4: where there doesn't seem to be any real purpose, and

1196
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 4: that the advancement they make is it make is really

1197
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 4: to make this place, which which in two thousand and ten,

1198
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 4: the film informs us at the end was ultimately the

1199
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 4: US military pulled back from that area altogether. And it

1200
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 4: just reminded me of just almost like how this place

1201
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 4: that these elders and these goat herds and farmers that

1202
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 4: lived basically the same way for centuries, you know, they're

1203
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 4: not going anywhere, and Ristreppo itself and this whole America's

1204
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 4: presence in the area, it's like that, like this like

1205
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 4: a sand castle that kind of gets eaten up by

1206
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 4: the tide. And it kind of feels that way when

1207
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 4: you watch the movie. But then you also get a

1208
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 4: sense of how profound and disturbing and affecting this experiences

1209
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 4: for the actual men who are out there fighting it

1210
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 4: are who are taking fire every day, who have seen

1211
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 4: people that they care a lot I or be seriously wounded,

1212
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 4: and uh, you know the nightmares they're gonna they're going

1213
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 4: to take away from all of that. And it's just

1214
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 4: such a it's a kind of a stunning movie to

1215
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 4: watch now. It was always great. It was always great,

1216
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 4: and it won I think it won the Grand Jury

1217
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 4: Prize at Sundance. It was well liked at the time,

1218
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 4: But I think now it feels like so much the

1219
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 4: defining film of Afghanistan, the war in Afghanistan, and I

1220
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 4: think it's a good time if you haven't seen it

1221
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 4: already to check it out Ristrepo.

1222
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 8: Do you think that will change? Do you think we'll

1223
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 8: get more films about Afghanistan and the future.

1224
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 4: Maybe, I mean, I think I think, I mean it

1225
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 4: always held. I think there's a little bit more of

1226
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 4: an impulse to make films about wars, you know, after

1227
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 4: they're completed. And I think the impact of that twenty

1228
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 4: year excursion, you know, the amount of an investment that

1229
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 4: was made in that war to to absolutely no positive end,

1230
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 4: I mean that that that that's going to stick around

1231
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 4: for a while. I think, uh, you know, and in

1232
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 4: the kind of CORRP And I mean there's a lot

1233
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 4: of things that you can explore in that story. So

1234
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 4: maybe so. But but but while it was going on,

1235
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 4: you couldn't even get aheadline how many I mean you

1236
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 4: would go years without hearing much of anything about it.

1237
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1238
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was shameful. I mean there was a real war.

1239
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 4: I mean, it wasn't like there was no pause in

1240
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 4: that war. There was. It was war for twenty years. Crazy.

1241
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 3: I think there's also because of the drama of the

1242
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 3: way things ended like that gives filmmakers a reason to

1243
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 3: return to it. There is that feeling of you know, America,

1244
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 3: Americans don't want to know what's being done in their name.

1245
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 3: They don't want the downer stories when the downer stories

1246
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 3: are always the same. But there's a dramatic ending for

1247
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 3: any movie, now, you know, not just in the footage

1248
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 3: of the departure from Afghanistan, but in talking about what

1249
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 3: went into it and what the response.

1250
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 4: Was and what came next, and also the sense of

1251
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 4: that we just missed a story. We missed some big stories.

1252
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 4: You know, there was there's a story there about about corruption,

1253
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 4: especially that that within within both the US military and

1254
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 4: within Afghanistan that was not being fully told, and that

1255
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 4: made itself extremely obvious, you know, in the in the

1256
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 4: chaotic final days of the war. Anyway, Ristreppo is I

1257
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 4: think a good start if you want to get that

1258
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 4: feeling of what it was like to have boots on

1259
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 4: the ground. And that's that's rentable, I guess on Apple TV.

1260
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 4: I don't think it's rentable anywhere else, which is strange,

1261
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 4: but that's how I was able to revisit it. Keith,

1262
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 4: what about you?

1263
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 8: I had an occasion I read a piece for GQ

1264
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 8: as sort of like a quick guide to Tony Lung movies.

1265
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 8: Given that that, I think, you know, for a lot

1266
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 8: of a lot of viewers, shang Chi and the Legend

1267
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 8: of the Ten Rings might be the first time they've

1268
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 8: seen Tony Long, what of what of our great movie

1269
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 8: stars in a movie just has not really done any

1270
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 8: Hollywood films. Closest you could say, it was something like

1271
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 8: like on Lee's Lost Caution of Course a Hero had

1272
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 8: a big crossover audience here when it was released in

1273
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 8: two thousand and four, So I, you know, it was

1274
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 8: pretty easy for me to write, and I know these

1275
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 8: things really well. But the big one I had not seen,

1276
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 8: a big blind spot was Flowers of Shanghai, the hotel

1277
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 8: film from nineteen ninety eight, in which Alung it's you know,

1278
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 8: it's not really a central character to it, but Lung

1279
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 8: plays a major role. Where it is set in the

1280
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 8: sort of the so called flowerhouses of late nineteenth century Shanghai,

1281
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 8: these sort of high end you know, it may as

1282
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,560
Speaker 8: well call them brothels that existed in some of the

1283
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 8: more colonized areas. And it is, you know, Ho is

1284
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 8: not a director I've seen a lot of I definitely

1285
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 8: need to check out more. But the style like doing

1286
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 8: these very immersive long takes that just kind of let

1287
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 8: you soak in the atmosphere. It's a very sensuous film.

1288
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 8: I mean, it's you know, it's a film which characters

1289
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 8: are constantly drinking and eating, smoking and smoking opium and

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01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 8: you can almost like, you know, you know, smell the

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01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 8: atmosphere of it. It's a very seductive, beautiful world and

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01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 8: and kind of until you look beneath the surface of

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01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 8: things and realize how much you know the these are.

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01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 8: These are women who are are essentially have been enslaved

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01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 8: since they were children. And and then these relationships that

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01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 8: they between patrons and courtisons is very strange and uneven

1297
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 8: and and often quite tortured. And and that's really where

1298
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 8: Lung's character, Uh comes comes in, who you know, has

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01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 8: is with one flower flower girl and has eyes for another.

1300
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 8: But that means the initial one will will lose all

1301
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 8: our patronage. And it's all very complicated, and it's played

1302
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 8: out in a very you know, very understated style as

1303
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 8: as as the as the films are, but but you

1304
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 8: really get a sense of what what this this this

1305
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 8: kind of lost world. It's kind of beautiful and awful

1306
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 8: at the same time. That was a remarkable film.

1307
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 4: I was.

1308
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 8: I was glad to catch up with it, and it

1309
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 8: is streaming on Criterion and also available on Criterion.

1310
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 4: Blu Ray, which is a big plus because the previous

1311
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 4: DVD edition was one of one of those that well

1312
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 4: Spring put out, and well Spring put out notoriously crappy

1313
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 4: DVDs of of some of the best international system of

1314
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 4: the around, and at least you can see them. But

1315
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 4: Flowers of Shanghai you really need to see in as

1316
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 4: good quality as possible, because I mean it's one of

1317
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 4: those beautiful films I've ever seen you. Yeah, yeah, and

1318
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 4: I think I think once you got to get kind

1319
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 4: of attuned to Hoen's way of directing in the pace

1320
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 4: of his movies, that there's kind of he can really

1321
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 4: get kind of wrapped up in them, and that's a

1322
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 4: great one to start with. Flowers of Shanghai.

1323
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, I've seen The Assassin before, I need to go back.

1324
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 4: And that's a good that's a good starter. Sha Shun too,

1325
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 4: But some of.

1326
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 8: The big ones, like the like you know, pump Master,

1327
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 8: Pupping Master, pretty hard to find, you know.

1328
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's unfortunate because he was you know,

1329
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 4: I mean, there was a time when he was considered

1330
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 4: when he seemed to be like the consensus best director

1331
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 4: in the world or whatever. People are really into him.

1332
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, Well, the issue of availability is something

1333
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 4: that we intend to take up very soon. But for now,

1334
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,679
Speaker 4: you know, these all sound like films that people should

1335
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 4: be checking out. And that's it for this edition. In

1336
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 4: the next Picture Show, we have a special episode planned

1337
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 4: for September twenty first, Tasha, what do we have on tap?

1338
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 8: Well?

1339
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 3: As I said earlier, there are a lot of different

1340
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 3: movies that we could have paired with Reminiscence, which draws

1341
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 3: from a lot of different sci fi influences, but the

1342
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 3: most obvious title has been unavailable to watch on streaming

1343
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 3: for years now. Catherine Bigelow's nineteen ninety five thrillers Strange

1344
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 3: Days is also about a futuristic device that sells clients'

1345
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 3: life experiences. But here are the black market recordings that

1346
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 3: are pushed on buyers like drugs. One of those recordings

1347
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 3: hints at answers surrounding a mysterious death that means a

1348
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,879
Speaker 3: lot to the community. The stakes through the film's outcast

1349
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 3: characters get even higher. Back in nineteen ninety five, Bigelow

1350
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 3: and her collaborators, including screenwriters James Cameron and Jay Cox,

1351
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 3: and a cast led by Angela Bassett and Ray Fines,

1352
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 3: were inspired by the then nascent rise of digital photography

1353
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 3: and personal mini cams. We want to talk about the

1354
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 3: future they envisioned, while also taking a side trip to

1355
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,639
Speaker 3: discuss other films that haven't made the transition to streaming.

1356
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 3: Please join us for this one off special episode, and

1357
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 3: then we'll return with the start of another pairing the

1358
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 3: week after that.

1359
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 4: In the meantime, we'd love to hear your feedback in

1360
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 4: this week's discussion of Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind Reminiscence,

1361
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:25,679
Speaker 4: and anything else film related you'd like to talk about.

1362
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 4: We want to include your thoughts on future episodes of

1363
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 4: the show. You leave a short voicemail at seven seven

1364
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 4: three two three four nine seven three zero or email

1365
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 4: us at comments at next Picture Show dot net. Finally,

1366
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:40,679
Speaker 4: before closing out this week's episode, where can we find

1367
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 4: everyone these days? Keith Phipps, I'm a freelance writer.

1368
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 8: You can follow my work via my Twitter feed at

1369
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 8: KFIPS three thousand. You can look for me at places

1370
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 8: like GQ, The Ringer, TV Guide, Polygon, Vulture. You know,

1371
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 8: as I often say, I am all over the place.

1372
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 8: So again that's fifth three thousand on Twitter, Tasha, how

1373
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 8: about you.

1374
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 3: I'm the film and TV editor at Polygon dot com.

1375
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 3: You can find me on Twitter at Tasha Robinson Scott.

1376
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,719
Speaker 4: You can find me on Twitter at Scott Underscore Tobias,

1377
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 4: and you can find my work in The New York Times, Vulture, Guardian,

1378
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 4: Washington Post other fine publications. I'm also the editor in

1379
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 4: chief of Acilloscope's musings blog Our Absent. Co host Genevievcosky

1380
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 4: is the senior TV editor at Vulture. You can find

1381
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 4: her sometimes at genevie Cosky on Twitter. You can stay

1382
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 4: updated on The Next Picture Show by visiting Next Picture

1383
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 4: Show dot net and via Twitter at Next Picture Pod.

1384
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 4: You can also contribute to our Patreon and get bonus

1385
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 4: content at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show. If

1386
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 4: you haven't subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts already,

1387
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 4: please consider it, and please also consider rating and reviewing us,

1388
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,679
Speaker 4: which will help others find your favorite movie podcast. Thanks

1389
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:55,639
Speaker 4: to Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistants producing this podcast.

1390
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 4: The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of

1391
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 4: the film Spotting Family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

1392
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 9: Hey Mama, thanks for making all my favorite recipes.

1393
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 4: Hi mat, thanks for your unfiltered advice.

1394
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 3: Hi Mom, thanks for always being by the phone.

1395
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 4: Hey Mom, Happy Mother's Day.

1396
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,720
Speaker 9: When you ship ups air at the UPS Store, your

1397
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 9: items arrive on time or your money back guarantee that

1398
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 9: no extra cost. Exclusively at the UPS Store US retail locations.

1399
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 9: Visit the ups store dot com slash air Shipping for

1400
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 9: both details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day

1401
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,480
Speaker 9: gifts at the UPS Store and we'll get your gratitude

1402
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 9: there on time