WEBVTT - Are You Black Enough for Reparations? 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.479 Who get it. It's really hard to talk about who 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:14.080 qualifies for reparations. I think genealogy like who came from slaves? 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.000 Whose great great parents where slaves. You have to find 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.040 a way to prove that. So no matter what, if 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.720 you're a person of coloring this country, you faith still 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.240 freshness some type of way in America needs to repent 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.400 for it. Every Black person that's been harmed by the 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.080 system because and then then no matter where you go 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:32.360 in the world, black people is the one who's mainly 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.280 dominated how those countries run. Because you know, even in America, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.320 you're talking at least of America's wealth comes out of 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.120 black people, and a lot of black people don't even 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.400 realize that. Well, you have to do the history because 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.720 we don't know who ancestors. You gotta go back and 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.360 put the ancestors, Like I said, who family been a slave. 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.480 I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney down. Welcome to Reparations 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.160 The Big Payback, a product sh of Color Farm Media, 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:07.560 I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Erica, 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.240 I want to ask you a question. Okay, I was 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.200 about to say shoot, but yeah, okay, ask away. It's 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.360 just like the most basic question, say you Erica persuade 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.000 people that reparations are something that America can do and 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.319 should do. Who gets them? While I'm rooting for everybody black, 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.120 I gets them. That's all I know. But how about this, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.600 let's ask Killer Mike who gets it? I think the 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.720 people who gets to other people who are the descendants 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.880 of the people who came in sixty nineteen, right. That 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.120 means to be very plainly, if the Obama daughters we're 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:42.200 getting some type of reparations, it would be because of 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.399 their mother's lineage, not because of their father's. That simple 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.560 does not mean that I don't love all black people. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.600 Doesn't mean that the diasporas and oh you know, I 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.400 think Portugal ols, the Dominican Republic, France, Old Haiti. I 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.840 think we should all be fighting a worldwide fighting for reparations. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.480 But in terms of America, everybody who's descendant was brought 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.920 off those boats at the port and Savannah, Charleston, South Carolina, 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.480 and beyond, whether Louisiana and Florida deserves absolutely deserves it. 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.760 And it ain't hard to find out who you are. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.600 And I always encouraged black folks to fill out the 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.440 senses I'm able to look at the senses from the 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.840 late eighteen hundreds and see exactly who my great grandparents 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.720 belong to. So I think that that's important thing, because 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.120 that will be part of the way you prove your 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:30.280 ancestry right. So for me, everybody who is an ancestor 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.640 of the people that were brought here from six nineteen 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.800 into the embolishment of the trans Atlantic slave trade should 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:40.800 be eligible before reparations in this country. Boom, well, I 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.320 guess that settles it not so fast Erica Mark Moreal. 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.240 You know, I don't think he's exactly down with that. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:48.600 He used to be mayor of New Orleans, so you 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:50.960 know they've seen a few things. But Mark says that 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.880 colonial powers collectively owe adept to enslaved descendants in the 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.440 Western hemisphere. I heard some people suggest, and I disagree 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.120 with it completely, that people of Caribbean descent in the 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.320 United States did not deserve to enjoy reparations. If there 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.160 are some I said, hey, what you're missing is is 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:12.000 that slavery in the Western Hemisphere didn't start in Jamestown 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.720 in sixty nineteen. Slavery in the Western Hemisphere started in 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.160 the fifteen hundreds in South America and the Caribbean. Huge 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.360 slave port Cartagena, Colombia, was the main slave port in 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:28.520 the Caribbean. There was slavery raging in the Caribbean and 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.760 in parts of South American places like what is now 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:36.600 Panama and Cuba and Haiti even before sixty nineteen. So 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.560 most Americans of Caribbean descent are descended from a slave 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.000 system which was created by colonial powers. And I think 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.400 one of the interesting things about reparations is due former 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:53.240 colonial powers oh a participation in reparations France, Spain, the 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:58.960 United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Portugal who fundamentally created, nurtured, and 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:04.280 sustained the system of slavery before the United States was 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.200 founded in seventeen seventy six, you know. And that's a 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.960 discussion we haven't handed. I think it's a legitimate discussion 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.280 because it didn't start in the the seventeen seventy six. It 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.840 started when the British is, French and the Spanish head 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:21.000 colonies and the Portuguese own boats. There's a long, long story. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:26.920 So in this context of discussing racial justice, reparations equity 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.680 in the current sense, we also have to go back 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:37.280 and understand the origins the Western hemisphere. Can you imagine 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:42.600 coordinating reparations payments with all those countries? I know what 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:50.280 a wreath would say, nice harmony America. Thanks. Well, that's 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.479 the rub, isn't it? Like? America is full of African Americans, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.480 but not all of them are descendants of a slaved Americans. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.960 So well, one case be made is that the descendant 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.360 of slaves suffered things such as bondage, torture, family separation, 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.080 forced labor Jim Coro, and of course four years of oppression. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.400 That say, recent immigrants from Haiti, Jamaica, Africa, Latin America 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.720 didn't suffer. So believe me, Erica, I appreciate your what 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.120 would you call it your socratic method here, but no, seriously, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.599 I'm saying, so, wouldn't you say that America remains a 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.640 two tiered society, one with one kind of justice, one 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.040 set of rules for white people and another for black 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.119 people wherever they come from. Yeah, of course I agree 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.320 with that. But it seems also that this whole series, 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.560 we've really been talking about slavery and it's after effects, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.880 and I'm talking about that, but those after effects affect 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.000 more people than a strict definition would take in say, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.400 Kevin Durant and Gianna's anti to Kompo. Like how I 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.159 said that? Yeah, say they're driving in a nice car 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.880 in a white neighborhood at night in Georgia. Wait, you 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.880 know Gianna Suntokumpo Whitney, he's a four time all are well, 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.320 they're both in the car. Okay, who's in danger? Only Durant, 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.560 you think racist cops or systematically racist justice system are 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.400 gonna split that here? Step out of the car in words. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:16.000 Oh no, wait, not you, Mr antikotone Compo. We know 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.479 you're not an actual descentant of slaves. Yeah, I get it, 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.840 I get it. But isn't there a larger social justice problem? 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.320 Isn't that beyond the scope of what reparations really can 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.240 or should do. I'm just making the point and I 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.680 don't even know if I agree with it that reparations 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.719 is or should be about more than bloodlines. Of course, 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.039 American black slavery was a unique crime in history, and 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.320 of course that suffering in societal disempowerment got passed down 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.560 and in many ways reinforced through the generations. But another 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.440 thing that got passed down for everybody was a gym 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.880 crow society that persists to this day, where all Black 0:06:54.880 --> 0:07:00.000 people in America suffer from unequal education, unequal opportunity, unequal 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.799 will access to health, to capital formation, to simple justice. 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.880 Will reparations really change that? You know, I'm seeing reparations, 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.320 this specific remedy of reparations is a practical way to 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.840 help right or wrong, to lift people up who are 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.280 kept down, to put money in people's hands, no doubt, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.600 And I'm with you on that. I'm all for putting 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.240 money in black people's hands, but who and how many people? Right? 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.920 I mean, to your point, there's a racial wealth gap 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.920 that has persisted in this country for decades and according 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.880 to two thousand and nineteen study, the average white wealth 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.360 is seven times that of average black well seven times, 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.520 and that gap it hasn't narrowed since ninety two. Yeah, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.520 well that's right. But I'm I'm just saying that maybe 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.160 the who of reparations has a larger dimension, or a 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.840 moral one, or even a teaching dimension, not just a 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.360 practical one. Maybe it's a way of recognizing that in 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.640 an unequal society, all Black Americans need an apology, all 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.160 Black Americans need a reset of the scales, and all 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.920 Black Americans need is Dr King said a check. So 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.040 it's not the ato's point of view, right, I really 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.560 don't want to get into that, at least under that 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.760 rubic But let's take a better look at your suggestion 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.880 that reparations only be given to descendants of slaves in America. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.920 How do you even do that? How do you parse 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.720 out who's a slave descendant and who's not? Well, you know, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.880 economist William Darty says in his recent book From Here 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.160 to Equality that reparations should go to people who have 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.880 and I quote, a consistent pattern of identification as a 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.280 black American. And he said a lot more than that, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.920 Yes he did. Now, I'm not into the degrees of 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:45.480 blackness or the fractions thing myself. But what's central to 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.640 the criteria that we offer in From Here to Equality 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.800 is whether or not an individual has an ancestral connection 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.679 to persons who were supposed to have received the forty 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.479 acres and restitution for the years of bondage. So essentially, 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.600 we argue that the folks who should receive reparations, and 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.640 the folks for whom reparations always has been intended, are 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.200 the Black Americans who are descendants of persons enslaved in 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.720 the United States. That's the community that bears the weight 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:26.840 of the intergenerational effects of slavery, one years of Jim 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:34.320 Crow and ongoing atrocities like mass incarceration, police executions of 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:40.120 unarmed blacks, and ongoing discrimination and credit, housing, and employment. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.720 You know, the reparations should have been given to the 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:48.480 ancestors of the living descendants. The failure to do so 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.400 triggered a chain of events that cripple the lives of 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.320 those who are living today. And if we want to 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:02.360 remove that burden, that's the community that received reparations. Sorry, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:08.800 Stacy Dash no cookies for you. Well, I'm not going 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.520 to get into that one. She crossed the line. But 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.640 you know, he says you could use census records, birth records, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.760 death records, DNA even um I think twenty three and me, yeah, 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.360 because the record keeping has always been so good for 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.520 black folks in America. True, true, but those things will 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.720 certainly be a good place to start. I know another 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.880 place to start. Yvette Carnell, co founder of ADOS American 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.120 Descendants of Slaves, She's been very specific about the who 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.240 of reparations. She certainly has, and you know, Killer Mike 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.440 suggested that we should talk to her, and I bet 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.520 she's got a lot to say. Name me one other 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.840 group that has been oppressed from slavery and then has 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:53.800 had the entire government, local and federal mechanized against them, right, 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.240 and the citizens three of the United States, like the 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:00.520 citizens and the KKK that citizens mechanized against us. That's 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:05.560 internal torture, that's internal terrorism. No other group can claim that. Now, 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.960 some other groups can claim during this period, we got 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.000 discriminated against during this period, some of our people got 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.120 hung or lynched. But you do not have a history 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.160 that stretches from sixteen nineteen. You don't have that. And 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.560 so I think people look at that and say, listen, 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.600 this is four years and we will pressed this group. 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.319 We don't got that kind of money, So we gotta 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.760 kind of paint eid Dolls out as some kind of 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:32.319 rag tag, controversial, radical group because we're never gonna try 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.959 to pay them. And so I think what you see 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.520 is just powerful people who have decided that they have 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.359 built their lives and they've built America or an injustice 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.240 and it's gonna keep being that way. And a way 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.600 to keep being that way is to just smear eight 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.760 dolls and say we are controversial as opposed to just 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:53.720 saying listen, okay, you're right, reparations needs to happen, and 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.120 it needs to go to a specific group. Let's talk 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.600 about how we do that. American culture sits on top 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.079 of eight or culture. That's just a fact. It's about 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.000 our inventions, it's about our music, it's about everything that 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.400 you do. America. You don't really have a culture outside 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.880 of us. The people you can't. You brought here and enslaved. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.760 You have no culture outside of that, So that makes 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.560 us specific. You know, our culture is not Haitian culture. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.360 Our culture and our contribution is not the name. It's 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.760 not South American, it's not Kingan. It doesn't mean I 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.280 have anything against them or anybody else. We're just different. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.839 We're just different groups. It doesn't mean better or worse. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.559 That's what people mix up. I'm not saying I'm superior 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.960 to you. What I'm saying is that we're different. And 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.560 in terms of America, the descendants of Chaddel slavery have 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.240 made a different and a heavier contribution to America than 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.080 anybody else. And we did it unwillingly, and we got 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.400 abused because of it. And we have a specific cost. Now, 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.520 when you have a specific cost, that means a specific 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.760 payment that comes only to me, comes only to you, Erica, 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.000 that's what it means. You have to have that and listen. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.959 Like I tell everybody, if the Haitians get reparations from 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.320 the French, I'm gonna be the first one that Papabolis 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.920 champagne in the street and celebrate. You deserve it. I'm 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.439 not gonna say I deserve it. I don't. My people 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.080 don't come from Toussaint's people. It don't. I don't deserve that. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.640 I should celebrate it, and I will celebrate it because 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.040 I disagree. I oppose oppression anywhere everywhere. So I will 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.680 absolutely salute you, dance in the street with you, everything. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.040 But I don't deserve that because my people didn't fight 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.360 for that. But everything that happened in this country, my 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.840 people fought for and deserved. And we have a specific 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.760 debt that is old to us that shouldn't be controversial. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.520 So to be clear, how outside of everything that others 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.719 might define you, how did you find yourself and what 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:46.000 is ados well? We defined ourselves as American descendants of slavery, right, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.319 slavery as an institution Slavery was institution in this country. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.360 It wasn't just something that happened. It was the government 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.800 weaponized against us, and that these people are less than 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.040 These people are slaves, they're designed to be slaves, and 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.920 out of that we created something beautiful. So that's how 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.240 I defined myself. I define myself by my ancestors and 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.600 what they fought through and what they encountered, and the 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.080 fact that I'm still here. That's why the fight still 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.199 happens because I think we have to be freedom fighters 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.800 in this space. That's what our people were and that's 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.160 what we owe to them. There's a certain debt that 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.360 is old to the ancestors in terms of, yeah, you 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.840 gotta fight because we fall, We fought and died. You 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.360 gotta fight too. You gotta keep this fight going. So 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.160 that's how I define AIDS in terms of who we 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.040 are politically and otherwise. My people have been here four 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.960 hundred years, contributing to this country and not getting the 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.800 wealth of this country, not getting the milk and honey 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.240 of this country. Like Martin Luther King said, you know, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.920 it's one thing to be poor, it's another thing to 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.520 be poor in a country of wealth. So we are 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.680 in a country that we built. We built all this 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.040 wealth for this country. America would not be a country 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.680 without AIDS, and we're still a bottom cast in this country. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.840 That's different. I'm not the same as somebody else. I'm 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.400 not the same as any other person because of melanin. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.320 Melanin doesn't make us the same. And so I think 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.720 that's the point where people say, oh my god, event 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.040 at also being divisive. But Meldon is a trait, it's 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.560 a biological trait. It doesn't mean we're the same in 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.080 terms of our contributions to America, and it doesn't mean 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.640 that you should get reparations the same as me can 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:16.920 A question just on sort of like how you think, 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.600 you talk about specificity, how you think about the mechanics 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.360 of things, because I'm guessing you would also agree that 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.520 whether or not you're ads, if you have black skin 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.720 in this country, you still suffer from the legacy of slavery, 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.080 that even if you're a second generation Caribbean immigrant, that 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.440 you still suffer from the structures that were put in 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.880 place that are sort of built around white supremacy. Would 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.360 you agree on that front, Yes, absolutely right, because America 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.560 is too tiered. They don't ask who you are. They 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.960 just you know, see you black, but go ahead. So 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.320 the question I have is that if there's repreation, do 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.400 you believe that black Americans who have suffered under the 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:56.040 legacy of slavery also deserve some sort of compensation or 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.200 on some sort of a structure that allows them to 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.600 play and even on an even playing field with white Americans. 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.400 And should that be part of reparations. Do you imagine 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.360 that it's a separate bill or mechanism, or how do 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:12.160 you deal with that other group of Americans who continue 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.760 to suffer under the legacy of slavery but are not 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.800 necessarily Ito's descendants. Well, let me just point out one 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.840 thing first before I deal with what you just said. 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.520 The meat of what you just said, American descendants of 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.480 slavery came here in slave ships. Every other group came 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.840 here either on foot on a plane. You came here voluntary. 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.680 Voluntary versus involuntary has consequences in terms of reparations. Now, 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.880 you do not get reparations because you came here voluntarily. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.280 You decided to come here because you will have a 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.160 better life. That was your choice. You don't get reparations 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.360 for that. What I will say is this, we have 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.760 a Black agenda, So you don't get reparations, no, but 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.880 you do get to access this Black agenda that we have. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.400 The Black agenda is antidiscriminatory, so it is with the 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.920 lived experience of what we deal with in terms of 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.480 racism and discrimination. There's a lived experience of racism. That's 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.080 what a lot of black immigrants deal with, right or 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.439 children of black immigrants. What ADOS deals with is not 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.280 only the lived experience, but the inherited experience in terms 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.760 of the lack of wealth. So you would not have 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.080 access to reparations as a Caribbean person who came here voluntarity, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.040 but you would have access to our Black agenda in 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:27.000 terms of our anti racism, anti black policies. Those things 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.960 are part of our Black agenda. We have an ADOS agenda, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.280 which is reparations and a Black agenda. What black immigrants 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.800 deal with is discrimination, and we have things in our 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.800 Black agenda that mitigate that. What we're saying is that listen, 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.640 as a black immigrant, you absolutely are able to access 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.160 our transformative Black agenda. The only thing that you don't 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:51.680 access is reparations, because reparations is a delineation between who 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:53.760 came here in slaveships and who came here on a 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.600 plane or on foot. That's it. So you can access 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.600 this because you have a lived experience of this scrimination, 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.280 and we want to help you take care of that. 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.680 But there's another thing in terms of inheritance, a d 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.960 O S should have far more in terms of our wealth. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.040 Our wealth has been stolen, were plundered group from slavery, 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.360 Jim Crow and then on. We're taking care of that. 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.320 That is what reparations is for. That is specifically for 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.879 aid us. That is an inheritance that we have been 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.919 robbed of. So the inheritance that we have been robbed 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.680 of were taking care of specifically of a d O S. Now, 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.840 you have a specific experience, a lived experience of discrimination. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.520 We're gonna try to deal with that, my black immigrant 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.639 ally in terms of our black agenda. But there are 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.439 two different aspects of what we're doing. How do you 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.159 think reparations should be done? Well? Reparations for us is 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.800 very different because no other group in the world has 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:51.680 come from slavery and been multigenerationally oppressed. No group can 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.120 say that, no group can say that. Listen, we were 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.720 slaves and then the country decided to weaponize itself against 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.560 US local and federal. So, oh, there is no framework, 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.119 There is no blueprint. Now, what I will say is 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.720 that I do appreciate Holocaust reparations in the sense that 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.719 they understand that there are people who stand in the shoes. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.199 So there are people who stand in the shoes of 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.160 Holocaust survivors, just like in America we have people who 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.160 stand in the shoes of slaves. So that is us. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.280 So the framework would be to begin a repayment of 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.760 the wealth plundering. Right, that's part of what we have 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:28.760 to do. You have to do a repayment. There has 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:30.560 to be a check, but there has to be a 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.640 check for several generations. Because one thing I always say 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.560 is that it takes much more time to repair a 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.000 wound than it takes to inflict a wound. If I 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.400 take a knife right now and slash you, it's gonna 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.639 take much the more time for you that wound to 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.959 heal than it took for me to hurt you. So 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.080 that's the same thing in terms of what we have 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.919 to deal with. Right, Slavery happened, Jim Crow happened, reconstruction happened, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.760 Mass and conceerration happened, but it's gonna take a lot 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:57.840 more time than four hundred years to fix what you 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.239 did to us. In four hundred years of reparations is 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.680 just the beginning of the fix. And I think that's 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.880 why America doesn't want to do to fix because they 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.639 know what they did to us, and they know how 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.840 long it's gonna take to fix that, and they don't 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.360 want to make that an American program. But that's what's 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.600 gotta happen. So when you're talking about the Germans, just 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.080 so where we get what you were talking about, what 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.280 did they do specifically that you said you feel at 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.440 least addressed in a way that you think was direct 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.800 in terms of the payments around the world, not just Germany, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.920 in terms of the payments to Holocaust survivors. They've said 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.880 that this listen, it's not just Holocaust survivors, it's the heirs. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.239 It's the people who are considered to be standing in 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.719 the shoes of those people who still bear the cost. 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.080 And I think they captured that perfectly, because there are 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.560 people who are still standing in the shoes of Holocaust 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.119 survivors who still bear the cost of that. In that 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.199 very same way, in America, we have American descendants of 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.919 slavery who are still bearing the cost. Because you have 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.080 to understand what's happened in America. Let's just really break 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:04.240 it down. The weaponization of America and American citizens against 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.080 ads has been very intentional. It's not just because some 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.359 people are racist. That's not what happened. We've had race, 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.280 the creation of race, which is really a construction. It's 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.080 not real. Merlandan doesn't make you a race of people. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.960 What's happened is that America said that this race is 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.520 going to be on the bottom and they're going to 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:25.560 eat the failure of American They're gonna be America's garbage disposal. 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.120 So we're gonna put We're not only gonna just put 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.080 you in jail so you can work for free and 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.520 be new slaves. We're also going to put plants in 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.920 your neighborhood that puff out chemicals that kill you. We're 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:38.560 also going to have you be the ones that drink 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.119 lead water. When the country needs jobs, we're gonna just 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.960 build prisons and how people work in prisons, and have 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.720 construction companies build industrial prison complexes. So we're going to 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.119 use you to feed the rest of the country. You 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.480 are going to not only eat the failure, but you're 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.400 going to provide prosperity to the rest of the country. 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.080 And that has been very intentional from slavery all the 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.879 way to now. And there's a cost that comes with that, 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.400 but that's a very specific cost to us that nobody 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.080 else bears. How do you pay it? Say, everything sort 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:09.840 of lines up the way you want. And frankly, if 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.680 you say pump your brake, let's wait, it maybe past 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.080