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Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zaren Elizabeth's Aaron. So, uh, you're not it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, those furry shoes you're wearing. No, but actually I do. Okay.

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Speaker 3: You know the expression it's the best thing since sliced bread. Right,

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Speaker 3: TV was invented one year before sliced bread. Hm, the

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Speaker 3: expression makes no sense. It's like, yeah, yeah, tears TV

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Speaker 3: and then slice bread. It's the best things in slice bread?

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Speaker 3: Why are you people talking about like that. I thought

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Speaker 3: it was like it was like in the twenties maybe

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Speaker 3: and it was like, okay, it's better than radio. But no,

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Speaker 3: how is slice bread like you got to use TV

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Speaker 3: still as the marker if it's slice spread is one

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Speaker 3: year later unless slight slicing bread is just a nightmare?

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Speaker 2: Well it is. And as someone who doesn't watch TV

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Speaker 2: but does eat slice spread.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so you think it is actually more of a

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Speaker 3: life change.

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Speaker 2: I love slice spread. I love slice soured dough bread.

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Speaker 3: I used to I was, you know, rates that kind

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Speaker 3: of hippie style the right you know, so I had

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Speaker 3: all the like, oh, we're gonna bake bread or on bread? Right,

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Speaker 3: So I had a lot of you know, yeah, slice

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Speaker 3: of the low. I didn't realize that this was a

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Speaker 3: big deal. I did it as a child. I didn't

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Speaker 3: even cut myself. That's the big guys, you who know

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Speaker 3: what I mean is like, I thought it was cool.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was fun to slice bread. Like, what

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Speaker 3: is the hassle.

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Speaker 2: Because you get a more even like, sure, yeah you

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Speaker 2: can existence it doesn't tear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I get all of that. I slice the bread.

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Speaker 3: I know, great, But you can get thicker slices if

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Speaker 3: you want. You can make thinner slices if you want.

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Speaker 2: What if we're not talking about mechanically sliced bread. What

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Speaker 2: if we're talking about some bread that someone has slice

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Speaker 2: for you. That's the great bread. No, Like, when you

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Speaker 2: you're slicing bread for your family, that's great.

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Speaker 3: And someone else's sliced the bread. You're what you're saying, Okay,

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Speaker 3: So they went and they took the knife to the

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Speaker 3: low for me.

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Speaker 2: So it's the greatest thing since having someone do something.

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Speaker 3: Nice for It's.

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Speaker 2: That's ridiculous. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Do you want to know

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Speaker 2: what else is ridiculous? I'm sending one of the greatest

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Speaker 2: names of the nineteenth century into financial ruin This is

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Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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Speaker 2: and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: You damn right.

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Speaker 2: I have some questions for you, Sara.

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Speaker 3: I've got one answer for you.

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Speaker 2: First. First, who would you say is the most beloved

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Speaker 2: person in America right now?

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Speaker 3: A former King of Norway, Harold Bluetooth. Yes, No, I

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Speaker 3: don't know who is the most the rock I would

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Speaker 3: say the rock Dolly, Dolly Lilly. Well, I'm going by numbers, right,

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Speaker 3: We're just talking pure numbers. What person has the most people? Say?

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Speaker 3: I really I love him? No, I don't. I think

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Speaker 3: doesn't enough. I think it's the older generations, in the

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Speaker 3: very young generations. So I don't if it's people under ten,

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Speaker 3: people undertend No, Dolly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so it's Dolly.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Second, who would you say is the most hated person

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Speaker 2: in America right now?

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Speaker 3: The most hated person in America right now? Possibly Bill Belichick. No,

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Speaker 3: that's a football answer. I don't know who is the

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Speaker 3: most I just want to have a safe answer.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't I mean, yeah, I can't.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to speculate on who's hated. You're like, Saren, really.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know why would you think that? So anyway, wow, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we could we could list out the most hated

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Speaker 2: and beloved throughout the life of this country. But let's

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Speaker 2: take it back to like, say, eighteen eighty four.

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Speaker 3: Oh, let's take it back.

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Speaker 2: One of the most beloved people in the Union was

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Speaker 2: none other than at the time, former President Ulysses S. Grant.

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Speaker 3: Oh, eighteen eighty four, oh Us Grant.

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Speaker 2: Yes, do you know a lot about President Grant?

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Speaker 3: I know a fair bed. I really liked him.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that his birth name was Hiram Ulysses Grant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, and he had to like add the s

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Speaker 3: because people didn't trust a person. No, that's not a

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Speaker 3: true story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the name, like, his name's Hiram Ulisses. They were

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Speaker 2: drawn out of a hat by his family. Higher Room

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Speaker 2: was his grandpa's name, but everyone called him Ulysses. And

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Speaker 2: he was nominated by a congressman to be accepted into

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Speaker 2: West Point in eighteen thirty nine. And when the congressman

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Speaker 2: submitted the recommendation, he accidentally referred to him as Ulysses S.

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Speaker 2: Grant in stock Yeah. Yeah, so people there called him

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Speaker 2: Uncle Sam Grant, which then morphed into Sam. So a

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Speaker 2: lot of people call him Sam. S doesn't stand for anything. He, however,

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Speaker 2: did he stood for something. Yes, he was a good one,

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Speaker 2: right rude.

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Speaker 3: He was like when he was young, he was out

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Speaker 3: at Humboldt, Like that was one of his stations with

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Speaker 3: a Humboldt, California up there in like the weed grown colony. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and he like fought in the Texas Mexico War under Lee.

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Speaker 3: They didn't remember him, but he remembered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But as we know, he's most famous for

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Speaker 2: taking down the insurrectionist South in the Civil War.

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Speaker 3: But they do what.

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Speaker 2: He served as potus president of the United States. He

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Speaker 2: created the Justice Department. A frequent guest on this podcast.

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Speaker 2: He worked hard with other radical Republicans to protect the

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Speaker 2: rights of black Americans during reconstruction. He appointed both black

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Speaker 2: and Jewish Americans to federal offices. He worked to unify

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Speaker 2: a fractured nation, so granted no pun intendans. He lost

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Speaker 2: the eighteen eighty Republican nomination for president, and he has

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Speaker 2: his detractors. There were some serious missteps in his leadership

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Speaker 2: to be sure, some missed history. Buffs don't come at me.

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Speaker 2: But people still loved him. And he was a quiet man, thoughtful, generous,

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Speaker 2: and then he crossed paths with a man who would

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Speaker 2: soon be known as the most hated man in the

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Speaker 2: USA at that time, enter Ferdinand de Wilton Ward Junior,

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Speaker 2: called Ferd by its power. Oh this person's name, can

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Speaker 2: I call you Ford? He was born in eighteen fifty

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Speaker 2: one in New York and he was one of those

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Speaker 2: criminals we talk about who started young. So he began

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Speaker 2: his grifting at this young age. By the time he

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Speaker 2: was fifteen, he was running up tabs under his parents names.

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Speaker 2: He was spending all this money that he didn't have.

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Speaker 2: He was borrowing money from one person to pay back another.

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Speaker 2: He hated work, He was vain, he was greedy. His

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Speaker 2: father was sort of the opposite. His father was a reverend,

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Speaker 2: Reverend Ferdinand Ward Senior. He had a big work ethic.

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Speaker 2: He was a serious evangelical back in thirty.

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Speaker 3: Seven nineteen so evangelical Calvinist.

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Speaker 2: No, but back in nineteen thirty seven before for Junior

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Speaker 2: was born. For Senior and his wife they left Boston

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Speaker 2: and headed to India to evangelize.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, now.

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Speaker 2: I have I have my personal feelings and beliefs about

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Speaker 2: evangelizing to other cultures and religious groups. I mean, personally,

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Speaker 2: I think it's imperial and insensitive and shouldn't be done.

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Speaker 2: But there are those who think otherwise obviously, So whatever.

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Speaker 2: So the wars got over there, but it didn't go

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Speaker 2: so well for them. For nine years they tried to

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Speaker 2: convert the Hindus and the Buddhist to Christianity without a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of luck. They fought with the other missionaries.

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Speaker 3: Like physically, it's just just more like rhetorically, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it might have been wine up both.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: But the dad you find out that, like he's kind

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Speaker 2: of you see where some of Junior gets it from first?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, gota, so he's a bit spirit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So the Dad's always fighting with everybody.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: They hated the weather, especially the monsoons. Oh, they hated

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Speaker 2: all the mosquitoes. They just weren't cut out for it.

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Speaker 2: So they headed home. So in eighteen forty six, for Senior,

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Speaker 2: he went to preach to the flock at a small

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Speaker 2: church in upstate New York, just outside of Rochester. They'd

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Speaker 2: been driven out of India. In disgrace, too bad, so sad,

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Speaker 2: So for Junior. He comes along in eighteen fifty one.

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Speaker 2: He's born to this disgraced preacher and this passive, aggressive,

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Speaker 2: depressed mother. So Ford's dad. Like I said, he's constantly

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Speaker 2: fighting with people, the parishioners, his peers. He sounds like

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Speaker 2: a real piece of work, his long suffering wife depended

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Speaker 2: on for Junior for companionship and support.

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Speaker 3: And happiness and happiness maybe a light moment or two.

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Speaker 2: Ford tries to go straight right, like he's been doing

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Speaker 2: all these scams. But he he gets and loses a

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Speaker 2: bunch of clerical jobs. And then in eighteen seventy three

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Speaker 2: he finally got a gig as a clerk at the

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Speaker 2: Produce Exchange, one of the New York City commodity exchanges.

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Speaker 2: So Ford established himself and he married up. He hooked

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Speaker 2: up with the daughter of wealthy family. She's this heiress.

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Speaker 2: And he lucked out when his brother, who went to

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Speaker 2: Columbia University, happened to be assigned a roommate by the

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Speaker 2: name of Ulysses Buck Grant Junior, Oh the boy, yeah,

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Speaker 2: son of President us Grant. So Ford cozied up to

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Speaker 2: Buck and they became good friends with the Grant family money.

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Speaker 2: Ford then starts speculating in commodities and actually does pretty well,

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Speaker 2: so thanks to these financial wins because he's borrowed money

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Speaker 2: from Buck, but he's making it back.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen eighty he and his partner James Fish were

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Speaker 2: able to set up their own brokerage, Grant and Ward.

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Speaker 2: So James Fish was president of the Marine National Bank.

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Speaker 2: Remember that name, Marine National Bank. That the president's name

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Speaker 2: was Fish, is it just a chef's kiss to the writers.

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Speaker 2: Fish also was friends with Buck Grant, So there's these

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Speaker 2: three dudes. They all know each other. So Ford cut

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Speaker 2: Fish out of the name of the firm because he

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Speaker 2: knew that the Grant name would attract big money.

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Speaker 3: Grant Ward sounds really.

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Speaker 2: Grant Warden Fish.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Fish is a little suspect.

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Speaker 2: So Ford later said quote mister Fish insisted that if

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Speaker 2: the General came in with us, it would be the

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Speaker 2: best thing in the world for us. While the General

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Speaker 2: was not experienced and must pre force be a silent partner,

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Speaker 2: mister Fish agreed that the use of his name would

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Speaker 2: be of inestimable value to us. I therefore agreed to

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Speaker 2: the arrangement huh, so okay, got his dad to come. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they get well, they're just saying at this point, just

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Speaker 2: the Grant name sure, and so oh they.

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Speaker 3: Just mean, so the son's name is the foes. Father

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Speaker 3: need General Grant to go and.

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Speaker 2: Se at this point, and then he's saying that it's

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Speaker 2: Fish's idea that he didn't have his name on it.

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Speaker 2: So he gets Baby Grant, he gets Buck on board,

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Speaker 2: and then they get us Grant on board. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So he can't help himself, dude, Like you ever before

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Speaker 3: we got to the military, he had like five businesses failed. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: like I wanted. How about this? How about that he

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Speaker 3: couldn't even make.

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Speaker 2: Farming go no financial literacy and he wasn't given financial

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Speaker 2: literacy training as and.

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Speaker 3: He's not he's lazy. He was a worker.

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Speaker 2: He's a worker. It's not good at it. So US

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Speaker 2: Grant and his son book they each kick in one

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars. That's like three millions today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's big change.

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Speaker 2: So Ford tells investors about all this insight information that

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Speaker 2: he has about government contracts, that sort of stuff. Ford

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Speaker 2: has it Ford because he has this direct line to

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Speaker 2: the Grants whole thing's a hot exactly. So did Fish

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Speaker 2: know what's going on? Who's to say? I'm guessing yes,

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Speaker 2: But either way, he swam right in. Get it Fish.

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Speaker 3: But in fact he even want his name on it.

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Speaker 2: Suggested me that you know he was full because he

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Speaker 2: financed alone to the company for one point six million.

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Speaker 2: That's forty six million today. Okay, shut zam. So Fish

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Speaker 2: is in. Things are going swimmingly, I'll stop. So annual

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Speaker 2: dividends two investors were at forty percent. What yeah, forty percent.

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Speaker 3: That's suspicious right there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for those not in the know, that's obscenely high.

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Speaker 2: No actual financial investment has those kinds of no.

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Speaker 3: And if it does, it's not an investment, it's a

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Speaker 3: scam or exactly crime.

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Speaker 2: So for's the boss, he makes all the decisions. He

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Speaker 2: basically ran this partnership, and he manages to convince Grant

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Speaker 2: Junior Buck and his father to kick in another two

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars to the company.

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Speaker 4: What HM.

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Speaker 2: Later on down the line, Fird wrote this piece called

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Speaker 2: General Grant as I knew Him, that ran in the

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Speaker 2: New York Herald magazine section. It's been described as quote

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Speaker 2: self serving, and it's a retelling of his relationship with

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Speaker 2: Ulysses S. Grant.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the first examples of paid for sponsored

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Speaker 3: contents well.

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Speaker 2: In it, he recalls this time of getting more dough

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Speaker 2: From the Grant's quote, he former president Grant was presented

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Speaker 2: with a fund of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: by a number of his friends. It was a trust fund,

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Speaker 2: the principle of which could not be touched. Interest amounted

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Speaker 2: to twelve five hundred dollars a year. He enjoyed this

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Speaker 2: income until the time of his death, and I presume

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Speaker 2: it was part of the estate he left, as he

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Speaker 2: had no other financial resources when he became a member

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Speaker 2: of the firm of Grant and Ward, to which he

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Speaker 2: contributed one hundred thousand dollars, and from which he drew

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Speaker 2: during his four years connection with the firm upward of

258
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Speaker 2: two hundred thousand dollars. It may seem that I had

259
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Speaker 2: not whatever may have been the results, contributed to the

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Speaker 2: slightest degree of any financial embarrassment of the general. So

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Speaker 2: he's kind of he's lying, that's what he was doing.

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Speaker 2: He also doesn't mention the fact that Grant didn't get

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Speaker 2: a US military pension because Southern the Southern States fought

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Speaker 2: against it. Really, yeah, that in order for him to

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Speaker 2: go forward, he didn't have the pension that other he

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Speaker 2: didn't get his military pension. How could I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. So anyway, the truth of the matter

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Speaker 2: is there were no investments, so there were no legitimate payouts.

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Speaker 2: The money given to Grant was actually money from other

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Speaker 2: dupes who'd fall it for Fort's for forred scheme. So

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Speaker 2: Grant left office in early eighteen seventy seven, and to celebrate,

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Speaker 2: he and his wife took off on a world tour,

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Speaker 2: presumably not with Mohammed Maman so vacations that take you

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Speaker 2: all over the globe. Those are expensive, Oh can be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're paying for them.

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Speaker 2: It's more expensive than someone who is on a twelve

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Speaker 2: point five thousand dollars pension. Come yeah, I mean that's

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Speaker 2: like making three hundred and sixty six one thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: a year today here in the Bay Area. That kind

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Speaker 2: of salary might be able to get you a modest

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Speaker 2: three bedroom home in an Okay area.

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Speaker 3: Maybe maybe, But if you're traveling to around the world today,

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Speaker 3: that's going to go a long way, right, So still it's.

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Speaker 2: A hell of a lot of money. This is before

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Speaker 2: Ford started his scheme, though, and but so after the

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Speaker 2: lavish trip, Grant spent more money trying to run for

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Speaker 2: president again. That failed, so he's depressed. The shine was

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Speaker 2: off the penny. Additionally, loot. While he may have been

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Speaker 2: a brilliant military tactician, his financial literacy skills, as we said, limited,

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Speaker 2: so he'd already had a bunch of financial troubles even

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Speaker 2: before the Civil Wars. You were saying when Ford came around,

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Speaker 2: he wooed the former president with pipe dreams of crazy

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Speaker 2: returns on his investments. Grant wanted financial security for him

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Speaker 2: and for his family, so he looked beyond me.

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Speaker 3: I went back to the military.

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Speaker 2: Well, he looks beyond all the hankiness and joins up

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Speaker 2: with Grant Ward. So, former President Grant.

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Speaker 3: He had a habit of doing that, looking past the

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Speaker 3: hanky exactly.

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Speaker 2: He got along great with Ford. I bet Ford, it

301
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Speaker 2: so happened, was seen at the time as being such

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Speaker 2: a money wizard that he had the nickname the Napoleon

303
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Speaker 2: of Finance. Oh God, I'm not sure that's a.

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Speaker 3: Ringing endorsement, especially at that point. I mean, everyone knows

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Speaker 3: how the Napoleon story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but they're like, oh, he is this brilliant.

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Speaker 3: Mind and eighteen oh three, maybe call me the Napoleon

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Speaker 3: a finance space.

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Speaker 2: So there we are the Wolf Cup of Wall Street

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Speaker 2: and Uncle Sam Grant chumming it up making money. Since

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about them, though we know it all goes o,

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Speaker 2: yes we do. Let's take a break. When we come back,

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Speaker 2: we'll see how bad it got. Welcome. Hey, Hey, Ferdinand

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Speaker 2: ward Nod he was making serious cash. So the same

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Speaker 2: year that he opened that phony brokerage, he bought this

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Speaker 2: luxe brownstone at one seventy eight Columbia Heights in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: So he paid forty thousand dollars for it, and that's

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Speaker 2: the equivalent of one point two million today. It's a

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Speaker 2: good investment since according to Zillow, the place is worth

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Speaker 2: five point four million today. It was built in eighteen

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Speaker 2: forty five. It's currently broken into two units. Street view

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Speaker 2: thanks for asking, shows a lovely breakfacade on a charming

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Speaker 2: tree line streets Brooklyn Heights, just a block or two

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Speaker 2: off the East River.

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Speaker 3: Ah.

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Speaker 2: So he had this Dumbo, so I don't know Dumbo.

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Speaker 2: So he had this posh place, and he kept it

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Speaker 2: really well staffed, so it's you know, it's costing a

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Speaker 2: lot of money to keep the space up and running.

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Speaker 2: The Brooklyn Daily Eagle described his setup as quote one

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Speaker 2: of the most elaborately and expensively furnished houses in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: The parlors resemble the private room of a Turkish prince,

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Speaker 2: with its costly divans, rugs, and bear skins scattered as

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Speaker 2: if carelessly around. Every inch of wall is covered with

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Speaker 2: some work of art, twenty seven paintings, large and small

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Speaker 2: being in the front room, and almost as many in

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Speaker 2: the back room, while bric a brac and articles of

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00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 2: virtue are in every position about the room. Bric a

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Speaker 2: bracts is such a good a good description.

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Speaker 3: I could tell you a picture.

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Speaker 2: He didn't just use everyone else's money to buy that place.

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Speaker 2: He also bought a twenty five acre estate in Connecticut,

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Speaker 2: living large. What did his family, the erstwhile missionaries think

344
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Speaker 2: of all this?

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Speaker 3: They were a little critical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. His dad wrote a letter to one of his

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Speaker 2: other kids saying, quote, it is hard to trust his

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Speaker 2: word or confide in him as to anything. This we

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Speaker 2: know too well. There's no use denying it. I have

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Speaker 2: no son yeah, so doesn't care. He's living Ford's best life.

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Speaker 3: And I did this to get away from you people.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like once his dad got a taste of

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Speaker 2: Ford's best life, though, he stopped looking down on his son. Oh,

354
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Speaker 2: because Ford had his dad's church repainted, and then he

355
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Speaker 2: like showered him with gifts and you know, just gave

356
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Speaker 2: him all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: Everybody has their price.

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Speaker 2: His dad starts thinking, like, maybe my bad seed isn't

359
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 2: so bad.

360
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Speaker 3: His price is pretty low.

361
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Speaker 2: Price is pretty low. A painted church. So Ford's best

362
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 2: life pretty amazing, all built on a pack of lies.

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Speaker 2: There's this writer who wrote a biography of Grant Jean

364
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Speaker 2: Edward Smith. Quote, it was a fool's paradise. Ward was

365
00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,160
Speaker 2: kiting the firm's assets, pledging the same secure against collateral

366
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 2: against multiple loans, and using the proceeds to pay the

367
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:10,159
Speaker 2: dividends investors expected. So he was making actual investments at

368
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 2: some point, and he padded those with new investor money.

369
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,199
Speaker 2: So he has proof of these investments. But you know,

370
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 2: sometimes though, those actual investments flopped, and when that happened,

371
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 2: he just cooked the books to turn red to black. Yeah,

372
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,200
Speaker 2: so financiers, though, they start getting suspicious.

373
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Speaker 3: I thought you're going to say, sometimes they actually hit

374
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Speaker 3: and it covered.

375
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Speaker 2: Sometimes they hit and sometimes they really wiped him. Yeah.

376
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 2: So the financiers, though, they don't believe this. The balance

377
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 2: sheets just too good to be true. Of course, did

378
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: Grant care about this.

379
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 3: Grant does not look at balancing, not a lick.

380
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 2: He knew that money came and went in the investment game.

381
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 2: But he had full faith infer. I believe he's the Napoleon. Hello,

382
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 2: military tactician to military.

383
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 3: There was a problem. My petty officer would tell me

384
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,439
Speaker 3: about it. Sorry, you don't have a pity after anymore.

385
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 2: Oh whatever, So let's check in with Marine National Bank,

386
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 2: President Fish.

387
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 3: That's right, Marine National Bank.

388
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bank was a big investor in Grant Ward,

389
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 2: and the bank had loaned them one point six million.

390
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 2: In eighteen eighty four, the Comptroller of New York City

391
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 2: decided to reduce the city's deposits with Marine National Bank.

392
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 2: This totally messed up the finances at Grant Ward, since

393
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 2: their phony money was inextricably tied.

394
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 3: To the bank money on guidied money.

395
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 2: So Grant, who does he go to the Vanderbilts? Oh wow,

396
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 2: help me, please please please somebody help. They loan the

397
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,360
Speaker 2: bank one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Now some say

398
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,919
Speaker 2: so yeah, some sources said eighty thousand. But you know what,

399
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 2: who knows who cares. It was a good chunk of money,

400
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 2: That's all we need to know. And the loan was

401
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,119
Speaker 2: underwritten by US Grant. Hum So Grant deposited the funds

402
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 2: a little too late. The bank collapsed, which kicked off

403
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 2: a financial panic, and in that panic, Ford gets exposed

404
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 2: as a con. So on May sixth, eighteen eighty four,

405
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 2: Grant junior Buck he pops into the office of Grant

406
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 2: Ward because his dad, US Grant, had this really nice

407
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 2: office at Grant Ward, like a corner office. Yeah. So

408
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 2: Buck comes in and.

409
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 3: He's around globe and a big window.

410
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 2: Globe you open up that it's a bar. So Buck

411
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 2: goes in and he says, quote, father, you'd better come home.

412
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,120
Speaker 2: The firm has failed.

413
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 3: Oh so he's just like not the telegraph.

414
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 4: No.

415
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: So, later Grant would find out that the checks that

416
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 2: he gave to Ferd to deposit for him ended up

417
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: going into Ferd's bank account. Oh yeah, and then Grant

418
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: he still had to pay back the Vanderbilts of course,

419
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 2: so he sold war memorabilia. Still couldn't raise the money.

420
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

421
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 2: The Vanderbilts, though, were like, it's fine.

422
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 3: We'll just that's what I was hoping. Come on you.

423
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: So Marine National Bank creditors, they only got half of

424
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 2: the five point two million that the bank owed when

425
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: it went bankrupt. What about the Grant and Ward investors.

426
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 2: They had fourteen point five million dollars in invested funds. Zilch.

427
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: There wasn't even a drop in there to split up.

428
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 2: There's nothing. Grant was one of those investors. He'd given

429
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: them everything he had. So according to Jeffrey Ward, great

430
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 2: grandson of fird Ward, quote, when Grant left home that morning,

431
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: he had believed himself a millionaire. When he got home

432
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 2: in the evening, he had eighty dollars in his pocket.

433
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 2: His wife had another one hundred and thirty. There's nothing else.

434
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 2: Are you wiped out? Generals? Grant president wiped out?

435
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 3: Save the union for all these greenhouses?

436
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: Uh huh? So Ford, he's indicted on grand larceny charges.

437
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 2: The trial goes for a year. He was locked up

438
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 2: in the local jail throughout the entire trial.

439
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 3: I hope.

440
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 2: So she testified to the New York Supreme Court. Quote

441
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 2: had to rob Peter to pay Paul.

442
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think he robbed Peter, and Paul you

443
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 3: paid for.

444
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: So.

445
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 2: The lawyer of one of his defrauded investors said that

446
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: Ward quote had the power of fixing his eyes on

447
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: a man and willing the dollars out of his pocket.

448
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 2: We hear this a lot, don't we.

449
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 3: Nedic charismatic people just want to believe in give you money.

450
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 2: And I know I had that question. I could be

451
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 2: rich too, Really, no, just I wouldn't use it for bad.

452
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 2: I'd use it for good.

453
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 3: Oh you'd make people like donate to charity or and

454
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: just be nice to me.

455
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: That's all I want. So we've discussed, as we said,

456
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: a few of these types. He's later convicted. He said,

457
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 2: beyond that quote. At the time of my trial and conviction,

458
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: I was perhaps the best hated man in the United States.

459
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 2: So third, he gets sentenced to ten years of hard

460
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: labor and sing sing he weaseled his way in. As

461
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 2: writer Brenda Wineapple put it, quote the easiest work, detail,

462
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: the best sell, the best tobacco, expensive sheet music, and

463
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 2: as much money useful for bribing prison officials as he

464
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 2: could squeeze out of family and friends.

465
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: Wow, so he's still operation.

466
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: Still well, he can look at people. He has that quality.

467
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 2: While he's locked up. His mom told him to imagine

468
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 2: her writing in the country in the carriage he'd bought

469
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 2: for her, and to think of quote all the comfort

470
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: and happiness that those whom you love are enjoying, even

471
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: though you cannot partake in the same.

472
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: To think of your mom laughing her happy gess off,

473
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 3: bouncing down the road you're locked.

474
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 2: Up in, sing sing, imagine me living my best life.

475
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 3: I'm doing great, my boy, So just focus on that,

476
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: look at the bricks and go. Mom's bouncing down the road,

477
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: happy as a clam.

478
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: It's horrible, Like, what a horrible family.

479
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: So although it does sound familiar, like, doesn't it, I'm like,

480
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 3: that's not my mother per se, but family.

481
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 2: So Third, where was he getting this money while he's

482
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: in jail. Well, he had been convincing Ella, his heiress wife.

483
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: Oh right, I forgot about as I.

484
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 2: Sell her jewelry send him money, and she did.

485
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: Her family couldn't They didn't know about this.

486
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: Pretty soon she wises up, she cuts them off because

487
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: she at the time was living with her brother. You know,

488
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 2: they don't have the mansions anymore. She's living with her

489
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 2: brother f A. Green and Thompson, Connecticut. Okay, And he

490
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: actually had a job as a bookkeeper at Grant and Ward.

491
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 3: But you know, he loses that job.

492
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: So she she draws up this new will that leaves

493
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: everything that they had to their toddler's son, Clarence. And

494
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: her brother was the executive of the of the will.

495
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: So anyway, Ford he did less than three years because

496
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: he was a good boy.

497
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 3: And financial crimes and they usually don't.

498
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: Get it, and soon he was out, causing trouble once

499
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 2: again again. So a couple of years after his release,

500
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: his wife Ella died and Ford sprung into action. He

501
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 2: was desperate for the inheritance give me the boy eighty

502
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: thousand dollars or about one hundred one point five million today,

503
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: So Clarence he remained at his uncle's house. The problem

504
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: was that Ella's will didn't name her brother as Clarence's guardians.

505
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 3: I was just about to say, because his father can

506
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 3: act is basically regent to the young king.

507
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: Herd is still the you know, legal custodians. So now Ford.

508
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: Father right, So it's exactly nobody.

509
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: Can Potter familias. So Ford wanted to go and get

510
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: his boy, but he couldn't step foot in Thompson, Connecticut

511
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: because he had warrants in Connecticut. So Fird's out of

512
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: jail and also out of the picture. Who knows what

513
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: he's doing at this time. So when Fird failed in

514
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 2: his initial attempts to seize the inheritance from Afar, he

515
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: cooked up another plan. It was eighteen ninety four and

516
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: he just remarried in Utica, New York. I guess he

517
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 2: needed money, so he decided to take another crack at

518
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: the boy's cash. Zarin, close your ass, Yes, I want

519
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: you to picture it. You are Clarence Green, Clarence Ward's cousin.

520
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: You and your sister Helen see the other Clarence as

521
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 2: a sibling. You're thickest thieves. It's eight thirty in the

522
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 2: morning on September fourteenth, eighteen ninety four, and the three

523
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 2: of you are headed off to school. As you stroll

524
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: down the street covered in changing leaves, skipping and laughing,

525
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: a carriage containing two men rolls up. It's a top carriage,

526
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: the kind of buggy that looks like come the automotive age.

527
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: It's progeny down the line will be like a bitch

528
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: and roadster, big back wheel, smaller front wheels. Can it

529
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: be top? I did say bitching at work? The works?

530
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: This one, though, is horse drawn. The beautiful sorrel horse whinnies.

531
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: As you look over at it. One of the men

532
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: shouts out to you. Are you Clarence Ward Ron Clarence Powell.

533
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: Before you can answer, your cousin responds to him, no, sir,

534
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: I'm Clarence Ward. The two of you grin up at

535
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: the man, so pure you too. The man leans towards

536
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: your cousin. Come get in the carriage. I have a

537
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: note for you from your father. You and cousin Clarence

538
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: look at each other. Your sister Helen gasps. No one

539
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: mentions Clarence's good for nothing jailbird father. No one in

540
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: the family wants anything to do with that creep. There's

541
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: a beat as you and your cousin lockeyes. You know

542
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: what he's gonna do. He books it. He broke into

543
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: a sprint and he hauls tail down the street. Helen yells, run,

544
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: run your little legs. But a ten year old, even

545
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: a frightened one, couldn't outrun these men. One jumped out

546
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: of the carriage and took off after cousin Clarence, catching

547
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: up to him, scooping him up with ease. Cousin Clarence screams,

548
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: it's mournful and ear piercing. You watch as the man

549
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: tosses him into the carriage and you take off, rains

550
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: whipping the draft hoarse. Not on my watch, you think.

551
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: The woman who lives in the house you're standing in

552
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 2: front of, Missus Chandler, comes out and asks what the

553
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: fuss is about. You tell her two men abducted your

554
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: cousin Clarence. She stares down the road as the carriage

555
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: fades into the distance, looks at you and says, let's

556
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: go the twos. You sprint down the road to mister

557
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: Bacchus's store. There's a phone there. Your feet slap on

558
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: the pavement, and then you burst into the general store.

559
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 2: The ward boy has been kidnapped, Missus Chandler yells to

560
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 2: mister Bacchus. He takes the phone from the cradle. Which

561
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: way did they go? He asks you and Missus Chandler.

562
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: You both look up at him. In unison the Putnam road.

563
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: Mister Bacchus as to be put through to the Putnam police.

564
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: He gives them the details, turning to ask you and

565
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: missus Chandler about the carriage, what the men were wearing,

566
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: the color of the horse sorel. You are still catching

567
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: your breath. The three of you are terrified that the

568
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 2: men are intending to jump on a train at Putnam

569
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: and head out to parts unknown. You and Missus Chandler

570
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 2: are now huddled next to mister Bacchus, listening to the

571
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: crackles on the rudimentary phone line. You hear an operator

572
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: click into the call. Someone else has seen the carriage

573
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 2: go by with a screaming ward boy in it. They

574
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 2: phoned in the coordinates and it turns out the kidnappers

575
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 2: had left the Putnam road and are turned onto a

576
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: country lane headed north through Grovesnerdale towards Webster, Massachusetts, which

577
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 2: is eight miles from Thompson. Mister Bacchus hangs up and

578
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: has an operator ring him through to Grosnerdale Peebe. He

579
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: gives them a volo on the carriage. Just as Bacchus

580
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: hangs up again, your dad burst into the store. He'd

581
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: heard what happened and where you've gone. When he's brought

582
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: up to speed, he picks up the phone and asks

583
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: to be connected to the sheriff as he breathlessly asked

584
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: the law man to draw up Habeas corpus papers and

585
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: send them immediately to Webster, Massachusetts. You take a deep

586
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: breath and stare at the floor. Missus Chandler gently strokes

587
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: your hair and tells you that you did an amazing

588
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: job and you've been very brave. Your dad hangs up

589
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: the phone and the two of you dart off for home.

590
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: When you get there, your grandparents are waiting for you,

591
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: and your dad hops into his own carriage and takes

592
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: off at top speed. He's going to get his nephew,

593
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: his boy back. Clarence Ward's uncle, mister Green, knew that

594
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: if the guys were headed to Webster, they'd wasted time

595
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: going through Putnam. He took a short cut to Webster

596
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: in an effort to cut him off. At the pass

597
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: Nice about four miles out from Webster, he saw them

598
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: up ahead. Let's take a break. He get back, we'll

599
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: resume this chase. Yeah, get him Dad, all right, Zarin,

600
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: We're back. Good chase. So the Hartford current of September fourteenth,

601
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: eighteen ninety four, told the tale of Clarence Wards kidnapping

602
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 2: in a bang up way. Oh nice, it's amazing, so

603
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: please indulge me, oh of course, and let me read

604
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: you this section of the article they had omi sister.

605
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: Mister Green, with renewed hope, pushed on, and when four

606
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: miles from Webster, he came in sight of the kidnappers.

607
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: Their horse was on the keen run and they were

608
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: putting on the whip at every jump. The next four

609
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 2: miles the pace was fast and furious, and it was

610
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: a great race. Two miles from Webster, with little advantage

611
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: on either side, a Thompson boundeen was seen approaching. The

612
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: driver turned out to be Constable Love of Webster. He

613
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: allowed the first team to pass, supposing they were driving

614
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: for the doctor. One of the men had his hand

615
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: over the mouth of the boy in the wagon, and

616
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: mister Love drew from this the conclusion that there had

617
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: been an accident. But when mister Green neared him, he

618
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: soon saw that quote something was up in the first place.

619
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: Mister Green was upstanding up on the wagon frantically waving

620
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: his hands, and as he passed and recognized Constable Love.

621
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: He shouted to him to turn about and join the pursuit.

622
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: I'll pay you big money to catch them. Floated back

623
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: to the Constable's ears, and in a twinkling, he too

624
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: had joined the chase. The kidnappers, with their lead cut

625
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: down somewhat, finally drove into the Joslyn House stables in Webster.

626
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: The man who had nabbed the boy jumped out with

627
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: him in his arms, passed through the barroom and upstairs.

628
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: He flipped the bartender a five dollar note and told

629
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: him to keep mum. Wow, it's incredible.

630
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 3: So I tried to like race into the livery stable,

631
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: jump out and then go inside the saloon or whatever.

632
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 3: Take that, Paul revered. Now that's a ride. I'm just playing.

633
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

634
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: So Clarence's uncle and the constable they caught up with

635
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: the kidnappers, of course. They busted into the saloon and

636
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: asked if anyone had seen a boy. The bartender like

637
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: shakes his head no, but a patron speaks up and

638
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: said that the man had run upstairs with him. Oh nice,

639
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: he's like exactly so Green and Constable Love. They run

640
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 2: into the room where young Clarence was being held. Clarence

641
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: made a move to run to his uncle, but the

642
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: kidnappers held him back. What And so mister Green yells

643
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: at the men, asking them what right they had with

644
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: the boy, and they said, well, his dad's on his way.

645
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: So the dad had organized this whole thing. Green says,

646
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: I demand you give me the child. And one of

647
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: the kidnappers says, by what authority. Then Constable Love steps

648
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: forward and says, by this authority and flashes his badge.

649
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: That moment true story. Actually, I have a similar tale

650
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: for you really quickly. I lived in the rural South

651
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: for a time, town of about thirteen hundred. We had

652
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: a police chief who was a wonderful character, like a

653
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: big bald mountain of a man.

654
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: I love it.

655
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: And so on the main drag there was a pharmacy,

656
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: and a few doors down was this little cafe, and

657
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: every morning the police chief would eat breakfast there and

658
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: his police truck would be parked outside. So one morning

659
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: a woman came running into the cafe. She told the

660
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: chief that someone was robbing the pharmacy. Oh wow, And

661
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: so the chief slowly rose from his chair, setting his

662
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: napkin on the table, and then he went out to

663
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: his truck and retrieved a shotgun, and then he calmly

664
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: made his way into the pharmacy. Now, this pharmacy had

665
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: a counter on the on the back wall. Yeah, the

666
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: place was big. It has since burned down, but that's

667
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: another story. So the chief sees this tweaker at the

668
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: counter like yelling at the pharmacist to hurry up and

669
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: put money and pills in a bag. So the chief

670
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: quietly walks up behind the guy, racks his shotgun and says,

671
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: I'll do the talking now.

672
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so dope, I'm sorry.

673
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: It was amazing and I was like confirmed from multiple sources,

674
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: so I know it's not made up anyway. It remains

675
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: one of the most badass moves I've I've heard of

676
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: to this day. So where was I Clarence Ward? He's safe,

677
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: but where's Ford. So it turns out the kidnappers had

678
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: taken longer than he thought they would, so he got

679
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: tired of waiting and he went down the street for

680
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: a shave. Yeah, and so he's in a barber's chair

681
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: down the street at this at this time, so mister

682
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: Green is able to take Clarence back to Connecticut despite

683
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: the custodial status as being murky. Ford didn't want to

684
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: go back to Connecticut because of the warrants. Yeah, so

685
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: that was the end of his attempts to get the

686
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: kid back.

687
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?

688
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 4: No?

689
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: Has he ever heard of night time?

690
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: So what about General slash President Grant?

691
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: Dude? All I know is he's going to write a book,

692
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: and I know that's the same as finances. I had

693
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: no idea. This was why well.

694
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 2: Grant once said of Ford that if he could, he

695
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: would kill him, quote as I would a snake. I

696
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: believe I should do it too, but I do not

697
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: wish to be hanged for the killing of such a wretch.

698
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: See, yeah, Grant gets it. Sometimes you just have to

699
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: put it the thing snake down.

700
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: He tells a different story.

701
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

702
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 2: Quote, there was one glittering exception to the throng which

703
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 2: helped me in contempt because of the trouble they believed

704
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: I had caused them. That man was Ulysses S. Grant.

705
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 2: Our friendship never changed through all the period of stress

706
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: and trouble, but remained until the time of his death.

707
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: It is perhaps just as well I waited twenty five

708
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: years before putting on paper the record of my association

709
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: with General Grant. The bitterness against those who misjudged some

710
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: phases of that association has been dissipated. I am now

711
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: able to review the history of those four years with

712
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: what I believe is a calm and dispassionate spirit.

713
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 3: The audacity.

714
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 4: Right.

715
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: So he's like, well, he's been dead twenty five years,

716
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 2: so let me tell you the real story. He didn't

717
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: hate me, he didn't want to kill me.

718
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 3: I love the idea that he's like, oh, he's dead,

719
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: So I'm going to go straighten the record.

720
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 4: Now.

721
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: Wow, crazy, that's from the piece that they said was

722
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: self serving.

723
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: This yeah, which that one was coming from. I can't

724
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: if I was Grant the sun once again, I'm scheduling

725
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 3: a lot of the nighttime visits.

726
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: But right, well, so, as you mentioned, Grant writes the book.

727
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: People always wanted him to write his memoir.

728
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 3: It was one of the greatest people, and he always.

729
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: Turned him down for the longest time, you know, but

730
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: times are tough even when he needs he.

731
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: Was like his buddy, He's like, dude, write it.

732
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: Well, So he asked a friend to help him write it.

733
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:53,479
Speaker 2: Who is this friend?

734
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: Who was a friend?

735
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain, So Twain long time admirer

736
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: of Grant. Yes, they'd met before Twain was Twain. So

737
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: Samuel Clemens wrote to his wife about their first encounter quote,

738
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: I shook hands and then there was a pause and silence.

739
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't think of anything to say, so I merely

740
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: looked at the General's grim, immovable countenance a moment or

741
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: two in silence, and then I said, mister President, I

742
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: am embarrassed, are you? They met again in eighteen seventy

743
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: nine at a dinner in Chicago honoring Grant, and so

744
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: this all these speakers are coming up and they're just

745
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: heaping all this praise on kid, just you know, fawning.

746
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: But Twain's the final speaker and he roasts Grant and

747
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: everyone is shocked, but Grant cracking up. So he also

748
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: remembered Twain from the first time they met. He went

749
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: up to Twain after the event and said, mister Clemens,

750
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: I am not embarrassed, are you. So with that, this

751
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: lifelong friendship is born. Grant starts writing a series of

752
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 2: articles for Century Magazine.

753
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: Ask a great magazine, Yeah, look that up online. A

754
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: lot of stuff about Nichol, all great figures in the

755
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 3: late nineteenth century, and so.

756
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: Grant is explaining all. He's just giving all the story

757
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: about his Civil War battles, and they asked him to

758
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: write more, write us a whole book. And around this

759
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: time he's getting ready to say no, but he had

760
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: just learned that he had throat cancer, and so he

761
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: didn't want to leave his wife penniless. So he did

762
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: what he didn't want to do, and he agreed to

763
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: write the memoir We Visited the War, but with Twain's help,

764
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 2: and so Century offered Grant the standard ten percent royalty

765
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 2: on expected sales. Twain finds out about this offer and

766
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: he is pissed. It's like this is insane. So he

767
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: had also had money troubles thanks to bad business dealings

768
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: with family at business right, so he and his nephew

769
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: had started this publishing company, the Charles L. Webster and Company,

770
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: and it was really struggling, and so he's thinking, like

771
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: I'm about to hit ruin, you know. So he sees

772
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 2: an opportunity for both himself and for Grant. He offered

773
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: Grant seventy percent of any royalties, an upfront advance and

774
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: living expenses just fully covers it. So Grant took the offer,

775
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: even though it was a bit of a gamble. So Grant,

776
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: he's in pain, he can't sleep, he can't really eat

777
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: or drink, the worst moment of his life. Still writes

778
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: pages every day, and Twain edits them. The papers were

779
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: all printing these like breathless stories about Grant's impending death,

780
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: which must feel like garbage if you're in that position,

781
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: you know. And so when he physically like couldn't physically

782
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: write anymore, he dictated the memoirs to his assistant. And

783
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: then when he couldn't talk anymore, Grant and Twain just

784
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: like passed each other notes. Twain went on a crazy

785
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: promotional campaign, so both of these guys needed this win

786
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 2: in order to stay out of the porthouse. Twain wrote

787
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: a thirty seven page sales pitch for the memoirs that

788
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: weren't even finished yet his hard cell works. Over one

789
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: hundred thousand copies were pre sold before publication. Prior to

790
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: his death, Grant told his doctor, quote, the fact is

791
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: I think I am a verb instead of a personal pronoun.

792
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: A verb is anything that signifies to be, to do,

793
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: or to suffer. I signify all three heavy damn. So

794
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 2: in July eighteen eighty five, Grant finished his three hundred

795
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: and thirty six thousand word memoir True to Huge Personal

796
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: Memoirs of Us Grant. He died one week later at

797
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: the age of sixty three. The memoir, as you said,

798
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: is still considered to be one of the best military

799
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 2: autobiographies ever to be written. It's still in print today.

800
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: Grant's wife, it's.

801
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: The biggest book that year for a few years. It's

802
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: like a.

803
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: Monster hit, huge, huge hit.

804
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: Well, it saved Twain for certain, his publishing house exactly.

805
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: Well in Missus Missus Grant Julia, she made four hundred

806
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars that's like eleven million today on

807
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: the book, making her at the time one of the

808
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: richest women in America. So that is a lovely parting

809
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: gift from one spouse to another totally. When Grant died

810
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: on July twenty, eighteen eighty five, one week after finishing

811
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: the manuscript, the public blamed ford They all just went

812
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: to him. Grant's funeral was attended by one point five

813
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: million people in New York, including ford Ward.

814
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 3: Unbelievable.

815
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: He was in jail at the time, but he persuaded

816
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 2: the sheriff to give him a few hours of freedom

817
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: to go send off the man he nearly destroyed.

818
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: And the sheriff doesn't understand justice. That whole boy's saying, no,

819
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 3: you don't need to do that exactly.

820
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: Well, and what Award's legacy? Right, So here's what happens

821
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: with the Ward family. Little Clarence grew up. He got

822
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 2: a BA, an MA and a PhD. All from Princeton. Yeah,

823
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 2: he went on to be a renowned architectural historian, architect

824
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: and museum director at Oberlin College. Cool And he had

825
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: a son, Frederick Ward, and he was a noted educator

826
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: and former Ford Foundation executive who helped devise the process

827
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: by which winners of the MacArthur Foundation's Genius Awards are

828
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: selected each year without their knowing that they'd been nominated.

829
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: He came up with that whole thing. And then he

830
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: had a son, Jeffrey C. Ward. He is an author, editor, historian,

831
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: and a scriptwriter for PBS history documentaries. It's crazy that

832
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 2: he spent some of his boyhood years in India. Full circle,

833
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: So Jeffrey, who is Fird's great grandson. He wrote a

834
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: bunch of books, A first class Temperaments the Emergence of

835
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: Franklin Roosevelt, Unforgivable Blackness, The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson,

836
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: and another of his titles is a mouthful a disposition

837
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 2: to be rich. How a small town pastor's son ruined

838
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: an American president, brought on a Wall Street crash, and

839
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: made himself the best hated man in the United States.

840
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 2: So in the book he quotes George Bernard Shaw, if

841
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 2: you cannot get rid of the family skeleton, you might

842
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: as well make a dance and.

843
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 3: In charge people to come see the show exactly.

844
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: So what's your ridiculous takeaways? Aaron, thanks for asking?

845
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, how are you going to put the

846
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: screws to us? Out of all the presidents of like

847
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 3: because Lincoln's dead, But other than Lincoln, I cannot think

848
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: of a president at that period of time who you

849
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: can like, even the Vanderbilts, like, well, I'm glad they

850
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 3: wrote off the loan, But I mean, this guy, I'm

851
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 3: surprised that somebody's somebody close to him, you know, like

852
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: maybe like one of Sherman's boys would come over and

853
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: what happened and get all heated and go over and

854
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 3: visit them. My version of justice But my point is

855
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 3: is that I can't believe this guy escaped all that

856
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 3: and at the end of Shaff's like, yeah, let me

857
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: let you up and go get the turnkey. We'll get

858
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: you so you can go down and see the guy

859
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 3: you ruined.

860
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 2: And then he goes on to write this big piece

861
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 2: in the papers, and then.

862
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: Editors allow this because they don't want no history. I mean,

863
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: like this, Oh my god, I'm losing it him. So

864
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 3: what's your ridiculous takeway? Elizabeth?

865
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for asking. One of the things that I think

866
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: is interesting is that I hadn't heard of him before. No,

867
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 2: but and I feel like maybe that's good that he

868
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: gets wiped from THEE for being such a dirpeg.

869
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 3: Definitely, why did you tell the story? Then?

870
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to keep it alive. The other thing thing

871
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: for asking you is that I am fascinated by these

872
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: people who have just this crazy energy to you know,

873
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: get what they want and make people completely override any

874
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: sense of logic.

875
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 3: I've had two friends that I can say or very

876
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: much like that. It's fun to watch, is it? I

877
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: won't even lie. You're just like, how are they Oh

878
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: my god, they did it again? Are they gonna fall

879
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 3: for it. This person I respect y'all. They fell for

880
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 3: it too. Everyone falls for it. This is amazing. So

881
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 3: I just know that no matter who you think you are,

882
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 3: you would fall for one of these people because they

883
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 3: don't show up the way you think. It's like how

884
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 3: the the Devil has the best tunes. Yeah, they make

885
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: you want it, and then of course you always go

886
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 3: for things you want. People forget that. So it's not

887
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: that you're like someone I'm going to convince you, I'm

888
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: going to trick you. No, they don't come at you

889
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 3: that way. They come at you like, oh man, you

890
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 3: should have known about to say, oh man, it's the coolest.

891
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: You're like, what I do want to know? They create

892
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: the want and then they go, oh, here's how to

893
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: get it right right anyway. It's amazing to watch, though

894
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 3: I am sure I hate it when they did it

895
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: to me. Yeah, one time I got this one friend.

896
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 3: He did exactly that. He was so proud of them. Afterwards,

897
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 3: he wanted to let me know what he had done,

898
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: so he broke it down. He's like, I did this,

899
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 3: and I did that, and then then I knew that

900
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 3: you would go for this. And then I put this

901
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 3: in this order, and I said this, and then I

902
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 3: knew that you would commit. And then once you committed,

903
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 3: our other friend would commit because he'd be excited if

904
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: you're exciting, and I get you both. I didn't even

905
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 3: have to work on him, and I was like, wow,

906
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 3: I just I realized how deep and he was doing this.

907
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 3: This wasn't difficult for me. It was just like, oh,

908
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: I want to walk across the room. I take my

909
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: left foot and I move it this way. I take

910
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 3: my right foot, I move it that way. That was

911
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: just his way and moving through the world.

912
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 2: Interesting.

913
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: So just know that you have no ability to understand

914
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 3: how these people are because they're operating on a level

915
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 3: none of us are operating. Yeah, that's very true on

916
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: the charm part.

917
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 2: That's a good takeaway. That's it for today. You can

918
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: find us online at ridiculous crime dot com. We're also

919
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 2: at ridiculous Crime on both Twitter and Instagram. Email ridiculous

920
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 2: crime dot com. Oh no, email, yeah, just email ridiculous

921
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: crime dot com. Leave us a talk back on the

922
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: iHeart app reach out.

923
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 4: It is.

924
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,

925
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: produced and edited by Dave They took the boy upstairs

926
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: and didn't pay me anything to keep quiet. Housten Research

927
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,800
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928
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Speaker 2: Andrea Song Sharpened Hear. The theme song is by Thomas

929
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: Lee and Travis Dutton. The Men Who Kidnapped Clarence ward

930
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 2: Post wardrobe is provided by Botany five hundred. Executive producers

931
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: are noted Mark Twain, impersonators Ben Bolen and Nol.

932
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 4: Brown, Redicus Clime Say It One More Timequus Crime.

933
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

934
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,239
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935
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,160
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