Speaker 1: All media.
Speaker 2: Sulug is like this, Bullduk is like this bullduk is
Speaker 2: like this all right. Uh.
Speaker 3: In the Gods of War Front, man, we got another
Speaker 3: school bombing where people were sheltering in place, and man,
Speaker 3: the defense that the Israeli military said was like, yo,
Speaker 3: they was hiding militants there. We got eleven of them.
Speaker 3: So it's kind of like, you know, you burn your
Speaker 3: whole house down, but hey, uh, I know your grandma
Speaker 3: was in there, but you know, no more termites, Like
Speaker 3: what a wild defense. They also dropping leaflets again till
Speaker 3: my hey, y'all gotta y'all gotta go.
Speaker 2: We finish. We finished.
Speaker 3: Shoot up this next place. It's like Nigga go where
Speaker 3: peace talks have stalled. The cease fired is just not.
Speaker 2: Just not in the cards, man, it's bleak, y'all.
Speaker 3: U crane up there scrapping too, Like Ukraine, like look, man,
Speaker 3: we're going on offense.
Speaker 2: They didn't. They just take it back cities. That was
Speaker 2: Russian cities.
Speaker 3: They ten miles into the into the spot, like in
Speaker 3: the same place that in World War Two where there
Speaker 3: was like a really bad tank wars broy They they
Speaker 3: up there like they out here, like like clapping the
Speaker 3: flamers before they became famous. Cause y'all saying, like it's
Speaker 3: going down up there. It's crazy that that war is
Speaker 3: still happening. These people were still at war. Like they
Speaker 3: got molded a little they got more heart than a
Speaker 3: little bit. As it's still going down. Yo, the Olympics
Speaker 3: is done. Shout out all the black people. Shout out
Speaker 3: the breaking Olympics. I'm so glad that breaking was in
Speaker 3: there and in a little bit of just maybe maybe
Speaker 3: they just maybe just don't come across y'alls feed. But
Speaker 3: you have to remember since like hip hop is my
Speaker 3: first love and I come from.
Speaker 2: Like rapidy rap hip hop, like backpacker.
Speaker 3: B boy, underground for elements type lyrical miracle hip hop.
Speaker 3: So I mean I'm watching his mug and tears obviously
Speaker 3: in tears of laughter over the Australian Home Girl that
Speaker 3: like I think she was trying to give us styles
Speaker 3: she just she just ain't had none. Like I know,
Speaker 3: the meme is flawless, but that being said, like it's
Speaker 3: let's not take away from just these these are artists
Speaker 3: that I've like, I've been following for a while. Man,
Speaker 3: shoutout Logistics, my Homegirl Benita was was one of the
Speaker 3: coaches who I met in Australia at a at a
Speaker 3: at Adulpe hip hop event. Shout out the homies at
Speaker 3: Crosswords that do the do uprock uh An event out there.
Speaker 3: Super dope anyway, just really keeping the vibe alive and.
Speaker 2: It's just dope to see. You know.
Speaker 3: If you're not in that world, then you may not
Speaker 3: understand how like the judging system works. Like it's like,
Speaker 3: remember it's a dance so like and that stuff is subjective,
Speaker 3: you know, and they've never had to be subject to
Speaker 3: like Olympic rules, like, but there's been world of dance
Speaker 3: competitions forever, Like if you don't know about like Bee
Speaker 3: Boy Summit, like freestyle sessions, you know, the rock Steady Anniversary,
Speaker 3: Like these these people are not like they're professional world
Speaker 3: elite athletes, world elite dancers that just the rest of
Speaker 3: the world is just seeing so any complaints like which
Speaker 3: kind of bothered me, complaints coming from the culture to
Speaker 3: being like, oh man, y'all sold out. It's like, Nikka,
Speaker 3: can we have anything like look man like you like
Speaker 3: if you haven't you ain't been a b Boy Summit
Speaker 3: and as ten years like you can't talk about like
Speaker 3: like what did you talk about number one?
Speaker 2: And then number two?
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm mad because like it's people like, ain't
Speaker 3: no black woman and no black people in that. I'm like, nigga,
Speaker 3: you don't like black people care about battle rap, Like
Speaker 3: y'all don't be going you're not a part of the
Speaker 3: scene no more. Like I remember specifically looking around and
Speaker 3: like hip hop stop and being like it is Mexican
Speaker 3: and Filipino in here, like y'all like y'all just don't
Speaker 3: And it's like, and I'm saying this as a black person,
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, like y'all look at me like I'm
Speaker 3: weird because I like that type stuff.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh nah, he on that backpacker lyrical Miracle, you.
Speaker 3: Know, And I'm like, okay, Like so then when Lyrical
Speaker 3: Miracle makes it to the Olympics, don't be mad. Ain't
Speaker 3: no black y'all left. Y'all left that, y'all don't be
Speaker 3: a part of it. And it just it is what
Speaker 3: it is. But anyway, that's just me on my old
Speaker 3: head right now. But shout out all them b boys,
Speaker 3: be girls, shout out logistics, you got robbed homegirl. Man,
Speaker 3: I was just really excited to see that. But apparently
Speaker 3: they're not gonna keep it up, which sucks, man. But
Speaker 3: it had been so dope to have b boy have
Speaker 3: breaking it in twenty twenty eight out here, it lost scandalous.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 3: Ten Walls black people. His last name is Walls, not Waltz.
Speaker 3: There is no t His name is ten Walls, just anyway,
Speaker 3: regular regular people pulling receipts about his military stuff he
Speaker 3: talking about. He making it sound like he was outside
Speaker 3: when he wasn't, like he was out of war, that
Speaker 3: he wasn't at It could be but the clip they
Speaker 3: pulling up is him talking about using weapons of war.
Speaker 3: It could have been he's like, these are the weapons
Speaker 3: we were trained on. It could have been like I
Speaker 3: used these in a war. Maybe he misspoke, maybe he
Speaker 3: spoke over is. Maybe he just wasn't clear, or maybe
Speaker 3: he meant to like it could be any of those.
Speaker 3: Either way, Like you're not hiding. You can't hide out
Speaker 3: in Minnesota no more.
Speaker 2: You have to. You have to learn how to stand
Speaker 2: on your business and say what you got to say
Speaker 2: and clear it up.
Speaker 3: Yall clear this up, man, which is one of the
Speaker 3: reasons why I an'll be wanting the rough office. I
Speaker 3: don't need y'all to dig up stuff with me just
Speaker 3: talking trash with the homies.
Speaker 1: You feel me.
Speaker 3: My last fifteen years been recorded because I'm recording guarded.
Speaker 3: So I was like, look, man, don't be breaking up
Speaker 3: the receipts.
Speaker 2: On't be diggie, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Oh man, anyway, Trump Trump, Trump, really don't like it
Speaker 3: with somebody else in the spotlight. You know, that's kind
Speaker 3: of what's happening right now. So he got to like,
Speaker 3: he got to figure out his attack plan, and there
Speaker 3: is no shortage of things he could attack Kamala's track
Speaker 3: record on. But for some reason, he's still stuck on
Speaker 3: the she not black thing. I don't know how you
Speaker 3: go to Atlanta and think you could tell a room
Speaker 3: for black people that that black woman ain't a black woman. Like,
Speaker 3: good luck, my nigga, Like that is you gotta let
Speaker 3: that one go. I had somebody in my DM talking
Speaker 3: about her daddy ain't black either, Like, find me a
Speaker 3: picture of him. I'm like the Jamaican there's millions of
Speaker 3: pictures of him. And she was raised by her mom,
Speaker 3: So yeah, she's gonna have a lot of Indian culture
Speaker 3: with at home. She ain't black. Well, I don't understand
Speaker 3: do you understand the diaspora? Like like sometimes I wonder
Speaker 3: if if Homi think because the Caribbean is in the
Speaker 3: West Indies that this bad beats he's Indian.
Speaker 2: Like anyway, it's like that. Right now is like this.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Hood Politics with prop terrorform edition episode. For
Speaker 3: those who have been here since day one, this is
Speaker 3: going to be a special treat for you. This guest
Speaker 3: is going to come with no surprise and probably remind
Speaker 3: you of why you like the show and then maybe
Speaker 3: why now you don't like the show because this element
Speaker 3: is missing.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: Again, to catch everybody up, The Hood Politics started off
Speaker 3: as a section, just a segment in a podcast I
Speaker 3: did with my lovely wife, my partner, my spouse, my ace,
Speaker 3: my shooter, doctor Alma Zergosa. So we used to even
Speaker 3: have t shirts that said refer to her by her prefix,
Speaker 3: which kind of came from when you was at Chapman University.
Speaker 3: At least that's where I got it from, because I kept.
Speaker 2: Calling you Alma, and I was like, oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember telling you the story of
Speaker 4: who would choose to call me Alma versus doctor.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so I was introducer uh so Red Couch
Speaker 3: Podcast Alumni, Ladies and Gentlemen, terra former for this episode,
Speaker 3: Dtor Amazara Gosa Petty.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you man. I feel very very welcomed. And
Speaker 1: also I'm air quoting heart.
Speaker 2: That's not air, that's a gesture.
Speaker 1: Gesture. Maybe maybe we should I love you the hell No,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm making a heart with.
Speaker 2: My hands on this audio.
Speaker 3: On this non visual Yes, okay, now why her and
Speaker 3: why now? So obviously the concept of the Terrorforming episodes
Speaker 3: are people outside actually making the world better, doing things
Speaker 3: as we you know, as the news remains abysmal.
Speaker 2: And today I'm recording this the Monday after.
Speaker 3: The the most hilarious first debate we've ever had, so the.
Speaker 2: Peeling could it be more bleak right now?
Speaker 3: But so today, the day that we're recording this is
Speaker 3: me giggling about that and prepping for the me basically
Speaker 3: writing a marketing plan for Biden because it BOYD needsl
Speaker 3: So if I was doing it, this is what I
Speaker 3: would have done, you know. But I want to take
Speaker 3: a break again and introduce people doing dope stuff now
Speaker 3: the amount of things. Obviously I'm a fan because this
Speaker 3: is you know, the mother of my children, and you
Speaker 3: know you can't I was like, you can't edit this
Speaker 3: out because I'm like, it's my episode, and might I
Speaker 3: add devastatingly attractive woman who has done a lot of things,
Speaker 3: And it was kind of hard to kind of drop
Speaker 3: in as to like, what things I want to present
Speaker 3: to my audience about the ways that you're making the
Speaker 3: world better because we could pick a million of them.
Speaker 3: So anyway, so then let me ask you. We'd say, okay,
Speaker 3: doc of your your professional work and maybe of your
Speaker 3: private work, but I would say, most of your professional
Speaker 3: work in what ways are you terrriforming making the world better?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Wow, Well, first, thanks for feeling that I do that,
Speaker 4: because because I think oftentimes, unless you have a really
Speaker 4: big stage or just a big following or just people
Speaker 4: watching you at all times, it can feel like you're
Speaker 4: you know, it can feel like you're not doing anything
Speaker 4: to make the world better. And so but yeah, I
Speaker 4: think I approach making the world better one person at
Speaker 4: a time. That's kind of how I think about it.
Speaker 4: I think about, like, what can I do in my
Speaker 4: capacity to change ideas, beliefs, attitudes, judgments, et cetera. In
Speaker 4: the interactions that I have with people. And so, you know,
Speaker 4: I do a few things I teach at USC. I
Speaker 4: teach a class on equity, and we really kind of
Speaker 4: dissect what it means to see equity through a theoretical lens.
Speaker 4: Like if we put on a theoretical lens of equity
Speaker 4: and look at the world using very different theories, how
Speaker 4: can we learn from the ways that these like scholars
Speaker 4: have thought about.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm stopped right there, stop right there, So we
Speaker 3: talk about So we're gonna say, this is a graduate class,
Speaker 3: like a C suite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is the Yeah, ex this is.
Speaker 4: Mid level too, like senior level, executive level professionals in
Speaker 4: their fields that are like killing it.
Speaker 1: So these are folks from.
Speaker 2: Around the world, so super successful.
Speaker 4: So I've had you know, Yeah, they're already in their fields,
Speaker 4: they're loving what they do, and they're wanting to learn
Speaker 4: different ways to kind of you know, create change in
Speaker 4: their own environments or organizations.
Speaker 3: Cool, because that's what I was going to ask, Like, now, now,
Speaker 3: explain to me what you mean by teaching equity in
Speaker 3: a theoretical sense, as if I was a kid from
Speaker 3: Huntington Park, like you you know, I'm saying it because
Speaker 3: I'm like, there's one thing that I do, like like
Speaker 3: we I'm gonna let you tell the story later when
Speaker 3: we talk about the ching on that book. But like
Speaker 3: like this fool, this Wasla Like she like she's a
Speaker 3: Chola but is a scholar now, so her code switch
Speaker 3: game be crazy, She's don't be.
Speaker 2: The difference between her and me is like I just
Speaker 2: know when to turn it on and off.
Speaker 3: Like I have to remind her to be like all right, hey, hey,
Speaker 3: not not edge speech, Like I don't what are you
Speaker 3: talking about? Okay, So I like that you said, you
Speaker 3: say it again. It's like these people want to know
Speaker 3: learn how to create change.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so these are folks that are you know, wanting
Speaker 4: to change their organizations, guide other leaders in their organizations
Speaker 4: to think about the impact that they're creating. And so
Speaker 4: what I mean when I said when I say, like,
Speaker 4: you know, trying on different theoretical like equity lenses is
Speaker 4: basically learning from foods that have been already you know,
Speaker 4: doing this kind of work. In my class, it's predominantly
Speaker 4: led by the works of African American women because the
Speaker 4: way that me and my.
Speaker 1: Co kind of you know.
Speaker 4: The person that co teaches this class think about it is,
Speaker 4: you know, they are one of the populations in the
Speaker 4: US that have dealt with injustice in various different you
Speaker 4: know ways and levels that and there is so much
Speaker 4: to learn from them because this you know, when things
Speaker 4: were really really dire, they're the ones that were the
Speaker 4: most oppressed in this country. And so we just think
Speaker 4: that there's like a lot to learn from these voices,
Speaker 4: and so we purposefully center the voices of BIPOP people,
Speaker 4: so black indigenous specifically, like women of color, but people
Speaker 4: of color in general.
Speaker 3: It's super dope to picture a room full of exacts
Speaker 3: learning from a Mexican woman that's probably younger than them
Speaker 3: most of the time. Yeah, right from the writings of
Speaker 3: black women Like I just there's a part of me
Speaker 3: that just enjoys the idea of that that, like the
Speaker 3: the role reversal of just the setup alone is already
Speaker 3: a powership that if you don't know, like like of course,
Speaker 3: like most of us don't because you don't know what
Speaker 3: happened behind closed doors. All we know is corporations Capital
Speaker 3: c is like, well, this is the big evil. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm reading a book right now that actually heard about
Speaker 3: from the Daily's Eye guys, so shout out, why can't
Speaker 3: I think of either of their names? Miles and Jack?
Speaker 3: You know, that's hilarious. Miles and Jack got mad Boostie's.
Speaker 3: So it's called The Dawn of Everything by David Graver,
Speaker 3: and he based on I bring this up because it
Speaker 3: reminds me of kind of the premise of what you're
Speaker 3: doing in an indirect way, but like essentially like the
Speaker 3: the ideas that our it's he said, it started off
Speaker 3: with a conversation with his with his and his colleague
Speaker 3: about like how did injustice get in the world? You know, yeah,
Speaker 3: and then why the hell can we not imagine another
Speaker 3: way to be right? You know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 3: what how did we gets stuck in this? And it's
Speaker 3: he's like, well, it's kind of because we thought as
Speaker 3: an as an organizational premise, that there was a moment
Speaker 3: when injustice didn't exist, and then these institutions came in,
Speaker 3: and then that's how we got inequalities like institutions, institutions
Speaker 3: like private property and corporation, and so it's like, so
Speaker 3: then your your thought would be all right, well, so
Speaker 3: if you eliminate corporations, and I guess you eliminate injustice.
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, now, what are you saying? Humans
Speaker 3: aren't humans? Like you know what I'm saying. Of course
Speaker 3: that can't be how history went. But the big thing
Speaker 3: he said was this idea of like the premise of
Speaker 3: the idea of fixing inequality, if you will, inside of
Speaker 3: the infrastructure that we're in is essentially you're all it's
Speaker 3: over before it started, because it's like, well, we're not
Speaker 3: gonna we're not gonna we're not gonna end capitalism, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, Like, we're not gonna end corporations.
Speaker 3: So it almost gives those in power an out by
Speaker 3: being like, well, the best I can do is kind
Speaker 3: of clean it up a little bit. I can just
Speaker 3: you know a little bit. So it's like, but what
Speaker 3: I think you do inside of this is go, well, know,
Speaker 3: there is a way to flip the entire premise and
Speaker 3: I'm going to sit all you wealthy people down and
Speaker 3: you're going to learn from these black women.
Speaker 2: Out of the mouth of.
Speaker 3: A latina, Yeah, you know, so, I just like, dude,
Speaker 3: that's already upside down.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean the way that the class is
Speaker 4: structured is basically what that book is. You know, the
Speaker 4: level at which that book, I think is entering the conversation,
Speaker 4: which is like, why can't we think about things differently?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh, and in.
Speaker 4: My class we explore that exactly why we can't. We
Speaker 4: can't because our minds have been colonized. Yes, so we are,
Speaker 4: you know, that is one of the the results of
Speaker 4: colonization and the way that we're right to battery.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was sitting on my battery, but go on.
Speaker 4: So when you think about how are we, you know,
Speaker 4: our brain are, even our thoughts are fragments of that colonization.
Speaker 4: We need to really enter gay like what we think
Speaker 4: of knowledge, like, yeah, who creates knowledge? What is knowledge?
Speaker 4: And then also like your your positionality around that knowledge making,
Speaker 4: like how you see yourself as either someone who has
Speaker 4: knowledge and can you know, like take up space with
Speaker 4: your knowledge or someone who who can't for whatever reason.
Speaker 4: And you know, there's many reasons historically of who has
Speaker 4: been allowed to be.
Speaker 1: Sort of like these knowledge keepers.
Speaker 4: Yes, in our society, in our very western society, we're
Speaker 4: very very regimented on like who is allowed to be
Speaker 4: a expert and have knowledge. But in all civilizations we
Speaker 4: have had knowledge keepers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and even like yeah, to get more
Speaker 3: to the book and to youse like you're you're right,
Speaker 3: like he so you're right. He enters the conversation or
Speaker 3: there's two authors. They entered the conversation like that, and
Speaker 3: then they're like, well, here, let me show you the
Speaker 3: last forty years of archaeological evidence. Yeah, like science proof, right,
Speaker 3: Because he's like, most of these premises that we've started
Speaker 3: all of our understanding of human history from, we're just
Speaker 3: thought experiments, not based on any evidence. It's like, y'all
Speaker 3: don't have no research that shows that this is how
Speaker 3: it worked. He was like, well, here's what the research shows,
Speaker 3: you know, which is well, no people have been complicated
Speaker 3: and have had and we've had egalitarian and we've had
Speaker 3: power structures, we've had this, we've had that. We've always
Speaker 3: had a problem with this and your ideas of modern civilization.
Speaker 3: The people that you think invented it have just told
Speaker 3: the colonizers that they say invented it are telling you
Speaker 3: out of their own mouth that they got it from
Speaker 3: the indigenous populations that we learned how by a different
Speaker 3: name what a democracy was.
Speaker 2: We just called it democracy, but like and then did
Speaker 2: our own.
Speaker 4: And then did our own thing with that, because it's
Speaker 4: really who knows how they really understood it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And they were just like man traditions totally. They
Speaker 3: were like we thought we were. They even said, and
Speaker 3: this is from the interview I remember, he was like,
Speaker 3: we thought that because we were more technologically advanced. Then
Speaker 3: we thought that we were more intellectually advanced because we
Speaker 3: were more technologically.
Speaker 1: Advance because we have guns.
Speaker 3: Basically, and then and like buildings and such. He's like, well,
Speaker 3: because in my mind, they're like, we used to live.
Speaker 1: We have buildings too, I know, but they were like.
Speaker 2: We used to live in tents. Also, we used to
Speaker 2: follow herds. Also we don't.
Speaker 3: Now the herds stay with us, and we live inside
Speaker 3: structured buildings. So in their brain they're like, we used
Speaker 3: to be there, Now we're here. Therefore we're smarter than you.
Speaker 3: And they're going sort of thinking themselves and stead of
Speaker 3: thinking themselves as like, wow, what what what institutional knowledge
Speaker 3: did we lose from going into buildings? Right, and in
Speaker 3: the ways for which that they focused on growing in
Speaker 3: the concept of civilization, just as a as an institution
Speaker 3: or an infrastructure rather than building buildings, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm feeling very not hood right now. I know,
Speaker 1: right conversation. Should I be upping it up for?
Speaker 3: I know I'm trying to reach you. I'm jumping up
Speaker 3: to where you are.
Speaker 1: You feel me okay?
Speaker 4: Because I feel like, dang, I'm not doing I'm not
Speaker 4: doing the right thing here.
Speaker 3: No, I'm trying to get to where you are. So
Speaker 3: that was my issue. I was like, damn, she all
Speaker 3: the way up here. So anyway, because you started with USC,
Speaker 3: I thought you was gonna start with Scotland match, you
Speaker 3: feel okay?
Speaker 1: I mean I haven't gotten through all the ways.
Speaker 2: That okay. So that's the one way. We already fifteen minutes,
Speaker 2: say let's go to.
Speaker 1: The second way.
Speaker 4: So one way is I deal with adult humans who
Speaker 4: are kind of you know, either want to relearn or
Speaker 4: think of things differently, and so they come to this
Speaker 4: class and this program and they're you know, trying to
Speaker 4: do things in a very different way. And another one
Speaker 4: of my roles I work full time. I've been working
Speaker 4: full time for a scholar match, which is what you
Speaker 4: were referencing just now, and in that work, I focus
Speaker 4: on supporting first gen low income background students, So folks
Speaker 4: who are the first in their families to either graduate
Speaker 4: like high school, college for sure, college that are from
Speaker 4: under privileged backgrounds, so they we support them through with
Speaker 4: scholarships and then also with a mentor who basically guides
Speaker 4: them from the moment they get into college all the
Speaker 4: way to when they're figuring out like how do I
Speaker 4: now get like a professional career?
Speaker 1: What's that like?
Speaker 4: And so, you know, I did that directly for a
Speaker 4: few years, and now I support some of the advisors
Speaker 4: that are doing that work. But I very much this
Speaker 4: has been education has been the way that I feel
Speaker 4: like I want I've wanted to you know, affect change
Speaker 4: in the world, and I feel like there's just so
Speaker 4: much you can do in education in general. And so
Speaker 4: that's one of the ways that I feel I've been
Speaker 4: doing it the long.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, that that particular job in ORG. Like
Speaker 3: I feel like for anybody who's like trying to figure
Speaker 3: out ways that they can help. Like what I what
Speaker 3: I loved about when you took that position on was like,
Speaker 3: this is you using both your personal narrative and all
Speaker 3: that you've learned from just living and your professional development
Speaker 3: and education. Because I'm like, obviously, well not obviously Spanish
Speaker 3: is your first language.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: You you are both. It's crazy like you're both. You're
Speaker 3: both immigrant and Chekana, you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 3: in a in an interesting way, like I know you're
Speaker 3: not like you don't self identify as a Chicana because,
Speaker 3: like I know, as matter of fact, I learned very
Speaker 3: quickly when I started dating you that I was like, Oh, y'all,
Speaker 3: ain't got odes and lowriders here.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, y'all like Mexican. Mexican.
Speaker 3: So I was like, I grew up with aathos, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. So I was like, oh, it's
Speaker 3: a little different. But at the same time, when you
Speaker 3: did come here, you landed in an area that's like,
Speaker 3: oh they rioters down there, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Like you landed in a threaspoontos, you know what I'm saying. So,
Speaker 3: so you've had the experience of like this what it
Speaker 3: means to be first gen child of a textile worker.
Speaker 3: You feel me and also like we outside running these streets,
Speaker 3: trying to survive. You know what I'm saying, banging the set,
Speaker 3: banging the hood. You know what I'm saying, Like understanding
Speaker 3: both of those worlds and then going on to get
Speaker 3: a PhDe You feel me is like you're able to
Speaker 3: communicate in a way to these kids who I know.
Speaker 3: As for me, even as a black man, if I
Speaker 3: were to ever walk into an organization and meet somebody
Speaker 3: as a kid like her, like you, I would be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: she gets it.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Even though you may not be a black person, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, But I know, okay, well, you
Speaker 3: you're from the struggle. You know, you understand your allegiance
Speaker 3: to your section, you know, and sometimes feeling like you
Speaker 3: got to play that down but at the same time,
Speaker 3: or you got to play down your intelligence to keep
Speaker 3: your allegiance to your section. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: it's like you're gota trying to be here forever because
Speaker 3: you have to say, like I said, I got into school, nigga,
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm trying.
Speaker 1: To I want to be here differently.
Speaker 2: I want to be here different See you already knew it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because yeah, and that's, yeah, that's a lot of
Speaker 4: what my book Chinona Owning your Inner Badass.
Speaker 1: Just the third thing for Healing and Justice is about.
Speaker 4: It's about my own journey as the first gen low income,
Speaker 4: you know, working class background person making her way up
Speaker 4: the kind of like the achievement ladder, if you will,
Speaker 4: and then realizing like what am I doing this for?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 4: Am I doing this to just be around all these
Speaker 4: other people that are like navel gazing and just kind
Speaker 4: of thinking that they're awesome? Or am I doing this
Speaker 4: because I want something different from my community? And sometimes
Speaker 4: it felt at odds, you know, And you know, largely
Speaker 4: it was at odds because I was at odds within myself,
Speaker 4: and so I had to go through a lot of
Speaker 4: just you know, unpacking and just kind of relearning a
Speaker 4: lot of the ways that I had like really latched
Speaker 4: onto anger in the way that was unhealthy, and how
Speaker 4: I thought about moving up the ladder instead of just
Speaker 4: so instead of doing it through angers, like what would
Speaker 4: it look like to do it from a place of love,
Speaker 4: like to want better for people like me, like younger
Speaker 4: mes like that are thinking about this trajectory and like
Speaker 4: wanting like a mentor wanting some kind of voice in
Speaker 4: their life as to like how to get through it.
Speaker 2: You know, So that's what you mean by at odds
Speaker 2: with yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for me, I felt like it was a And
Speaker 4: this is something that I explored my book, is as
Speaker 4: you grow up in a in sort of like the
Speaker 4: Ivory Tower, right, Like I spent many years in a
Speaker 4: master's program and then a PhD program, you start to
Speaker 4: lose yourself a little bit, and you start to be
Speaker 4: resentful at the institution and kind of developed this anger
Speaker 4: against it, like this wanting to change things from like
Speaker 4: a violent place as opposed to from like a as
Speaker 4: opposed to from a place that maybe feels more true
Speaker 4: to you. And I'm not saying that there's like a
Speaker 4: one way to do it. I'm just saying that the
Speaker 4: way that the way that I wanted to do it
Speaker 4: was no longer matching with the way that I felt
Speaker 4: I was being kind of, you know, activated by by
Speaker 4: the environment in which I was in. So I talk
Speaker 4: a lot about mental health, which is why I'm you know,
Speaker 4: I don't know how much that's used in in your podcast,
Speaker 4: you know, like how much you talk about that, But
Speaker 4: we could also talk about this from like a mental
Speaker 4: health perspective, in that it was just hella depressing. It
Speaker 4: was like hella depressing to be in a space and
Speaker 4: be like, why am I here? Like I worked really hard,
Speaker 4: I'm in this place and for what what is the
Speaker 4: point of this?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: It was very bleak, very kind of dark place to
Speaker 4: be in as opposed to seeing a way to like,
Speaker 4: you know, just I don't know, like changing changing things
Speaker 4: in a different way.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: I had kind of bought into the like there was
Speaker 4: this one way that you could do change, and it's
Speaker 4: through becoming a professor, for example, or becoming whatever, you know,
Speaker 4: path that you think sometimes you have to follow because
Speaker 4: of the path you've been on, and then realizing, oh no,
Speaker 4: there's many ways that you could affect change. And I've
Speaker 4: been looking at affecting change from this very narrow perspective,
Speaker 4: but actually there's so many ways.
Speaker 2: Did you go in angry or did you become angry
Speaker 2: when you got there?
Speaker 4: Well, I feel like there's a lot of different components
Speaker 4: as to why I may have been I've got angrier
Speaker 4: once I'm there. I was there, but I definitely had
Speaker 4: a lot of unresolved trauma that I didn't really get
Speaker 4: to really heal from until I was like post my
Speaker 4: pH d program.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which.
Speaker 4: Is also a big topic in my book. And you know,
Speaker 4: like how do you how do you like, you know,
Speaker 4: take mental health kind of these dreams and aspirations, social
Speaker 4: justice ideas and start to figure out kind of what's
Speaker 4: what you know and what's figuring out kind of like
Speaker 4: your own calling, so to speak.
Speaker 2: The book is called Jingonna.
Speaker 4: Chingna, Owning your Inner Badass for Healing and Justice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can say real quick what jingoona means?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so chin gonna yes say bad words here. Yes,
Speaker 4: So the literal translation of chinoona means like a fucker,
Speaker 4: like a fucker, and a nicer way that has been
Speaker 4: adopted of saying chingoona is badass. So it's hey, fucker,
Speaker 4: but it's in like the worst way possible. Because the
Speaker 4: origins of the word to China men to fuck. But
Speaker 4: it was used uh first on the children of indigenous
Speaker 4: and Spanish uh colonizers to define the children who were
Speaker 4: born of rape. So they were searching, searching go on
Speaker 4: as were children of the fuck basically, and that is
Speaker 4: where like the the word comes from. And this is
Speaker 4: something that I also explore in the book just you
Speaker 4: know the origins how it then became something that was
Speaker 4: used in the Latino community as a badge of honor
Speaker 4: for men, like to go on was like you know,
Speaker 4: you're bad as you're dope, you know, or yeah or
Speaker 4: not just fucking but just you're just dope, you know.
Speaker 4: But to be a woman and men like, oh man,
Speaker 4: you're like too loud, causing too much attention kind of
Speaker 4: you know, like this idea of masa which means you know,
Speaker 4: women are better to be seen than heard, which you
Speaker 4: know is adopted for children as well, and course and
Speaker 4: so like in in various cultures, and so it's it's
Speaker 4: just a way to basically keep the patriarchy and kind
Speaker 4: of misogynistic kind of values of life in the chicanel
Speaker 4: or in the Latino community. Uh, this way that this
Speaker 4: word was used, but over the years it has been
Speaker 4: kind of co opted by latinas in in kind of
Speaker 4: an empowering kind of way to be like, yeah, China,
Speaker 4: that's what I am, you know.
Speaker 3: And that's the yeah. That was my entrance to the word.
Speaker 3: I had no idea of its history. I've always thought
Speaker 3: it was like like the power term for Mexic you
Speaker 3: ain't read in my book. Just know I'm saying my
Speaker 3: entrance to it. I know now because of your books.
Speaker 1: I'm joking.
Speaker 3: No, but like yeah, like I had until until you
Speaker 3: schooled me, I had no idea of its history. I
Speaker 3: always thought that, yeah, that was just the phrase for like, no,
Speaker 3: it's Mexican girl, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Like, so one of the things that I also realized,
Speaker 4: it's very general. And also depending on which Latino or
Speaker 4: like Spanish speaking kind of background you come, it's very
Speaker 4: vulgar too.
Speaker 1: It could be considered very vulgar. And so.
Speaker 3: When I like posted about your book, like you know,
Speaker 3: it's a cuss word. Yes, you can read you read.
Speaker 4: Part of why I didn't want to censor that was because,
Speaker 4: you know, often I feel like people from working class
Speaker 4: backgrounds and nur slang gets policed, like you know, the
Speaker 4: way that you speak, and you know, even using the
Speaker 4: worst you go now, which was actually a term that
Speaker 4: I was called as a child often, you know, And
Speaker 4: that's part of why I wanted to explore that.
Speaker 2: How you feel about the usage of nigga.
Speaker 4: I think that you know, whoever chooses to use it,
Speaker 4: that are of black or African American descent, they are
Speaker 4: in their right conversation conversations have and black carts to
Speaker 4: revoke or give back as y'all want. But I do
Speaker 4: not personally feel that any no black persons should get a.
Speaker 2: Pass, even even even you as married in No, No,
Speaker 2: I I agree.
Speaker 4: That's that's just my personal politics around that, the word
Speaker 4: of you know. And I also I also feel like
Speaker 4: most of black folks that I am friends with close
Speaker 4: to don't use the term other than me, other than you,
Speaker 4: So it's really interesting that that's kind of who I.
Speaker 2: Feel you no but like you.
Speaker 3: And I'm saying even this is completely off top, well no,
Speaker 3: it's it's tied into this concept.
Speaker 1: Of to me.
Speaker 2: But like I think of.
Speaker 3: Your a lot of times when I try to describe
Speaker 3: you to other people because I'm like, it seems like
Speaker 3: it doesn't paint the whole picture if I say my
Speaker 3: wife are like, you know, my wife's U, you know,
Speaker 3: Mexican American, because I'm like, you're mostly indigenous, and then
Speaker 3: when and then your granddaddy is black, like you know,
Speaker 3: So I'm like and knowing me knowing black history being like, well,
Speaker 3: y'all region was a slave trade port. It's a lot
Speaker 3: of black people over there, you know. And it's funny
Speaker 3: when I run into people who are you know, Afro,
Speaker 3: Latino or Caribbean. And my my anecdotal thing is when
Speaker 3: people have to explain how they're black, I'm like, you're
Speaker 3: it's over before it started, Like you you shouldn't have
Speaker 3: to explain this to me. So I'm like, as their
Speaker 3: justification for saying the word niggad, it's like, what are
Speaker 3: you talking about? Like you see how dark this is,
Speaker 3: you see this nose this is, And I'm like, bro,
Speaker 3: you know how I don't have to explain to you that.
Speaker 2: I'm black and you feel like you do.
Speaker 3: So the moment you to me, that's a mark to
Speaker 3: me where I'm just like or I grew up like that,
Speaker 3: this is how we talk.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, eight like you said, like.
Speaker 3: I am done policing people, Like that's just my stage
Speaker 3: of mental health where I'm like, I don't need to
Speaker 3: police nobody over.
Speaker 2: There, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, but if you ask me,
Speaker 3: you know, I feel like if you got to explain
Speaker 3: your blackness, that that should already you should be able
Speaker 3: to answer your.
Speaker 1: Own questions, you know what I'm saying, So, like, who
Speaker 1: are trying to convince?
Speaker 3: You're trying to convince here, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So so I say that as you who could legitimately
Speaker 3: say that you're Afro Mexican, Yeah, you're like the hell
Speaker 3: I am right, Well.
Speaker 4: I feel like I don't present an Mehicana, So it's
Speaker 4: not something that I would claim.
Speaker 1: You know, because it's not fair, right, And because in.
Speaker 4: My family, which is like a whole other like wrinkle
Speaker 4: to this, is that I was actually even though I
Speaker 4: I'm very much like indigenous kind of looking, I'm very
Speaker 4: much the I was the wed in my family, which
Speaker 4: means like.
Speaker 1: The lightest one.
Speaker 4: Whole like experience was always hearing how beautiful I was
Speaker 4: because I was the lightest one, which is horrible, which
Speaker 4: is horrible because I'm literally it was done in front
Speaker 4: of cousins who were darker, you know, and it was
Speaker 4: just like it was like this weird way that I
Speaker 4: really early on learned like colorism within like the our
Speaker 4: not only our family, but the Latino community. Like you know,
Speaker 4: we obviously have a very different race relationship than in
Speaker 4: the US because we didn't have like slavery as an
Speaker 4: institution the way that it was in the US, where
Speaker 4: you know, for example, like growing up, yeah, my grandfather
Speaker 4: being Afro Mexicano, it was never a thing that we
Speaker 4: like would consciously kind of talk about because to us,
Speaker 4: Mexicanos were just of different colors. We just came We're
Speaker 4: very very heterogeneous in that way where you could have
Speaker 4: a really light skinned cousin and a really really really
Speaker 4: dark skinned like cousin in the same family because of
Speaker 4: just genetics and like who ended up with who, and
Speaker 4: because you know, it's just and it was never like
Speaker 4: a thing because it wasn't a legal thing in.
Speaker 2: Our in Mexico legal distinction right that.
Speaker 4: I was ever made. So it's I'm not saying that
Speaker 4: there isn't racism. I'm just saying that it was super covert,
Speaker 4: very very covert, UH and it came out in ways
Speaker 4: like colorism. And you know, I when I grew up,
Speaker 4: Once I grew up and I learned a little more
Speaker 4: history of where my family comes from on my maternal side,
Speaker 4: I realized that the reason why there's a lot of
Speaker 4: af Mehicanos in this specific in this UH specific part
Speaker 4: of Guerrero was because which is you know, near the
Speaker 4: Costa Chica is because that is where those are the
Speaker 4: cliffs and the part of the ocean where a lot
Speaker 4: of the African folks that were brought over through the
Speaker 4: Transatlantic slave trade would basically run away and just kind
Speaker 4: of hide out by the cliffs on the rocks on
Speaker 4: this in this part of Mexico. Yeah, and then when
Speaker 4: and then kind of assumed dead or assumes kind of missing,
Speaker 4: like they've died or something along the way on the path.
Speaker 4: But that's literally to this day, Cosa Chika has some
Speaker 4: of the like the largest after Mexicano population in Mexico,
Speaker 4: and that is where my grandfather was from. So yeah,
Speaker 4: of course he probably you know, he definitely has like afro. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he's like yeah, definitely after a Mehicano. But he ended
Speaker 4: up marrying someone as you know, who is like look
Speaker 4: like a white lady.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just very very light. And so then their
Speaker 4: daughters are you know, they're all shades and then depending
Speaker 4: on who they married.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so funny, but like, yeah, that that history,
Speaker 3: you know, like in for those who know my music
Speaker 3: on the she has made an earth song when I
Speaker 3: say Ivory Coast to Chica. I'm making a play of
Speaker 3: words of like the Ivory Coast in coast of Chica.
Speaker 3: So that's that's what I was talking about, you Ivory
Speaker 3: Coast to Chica. You know which I I just the
Speaker 3: obviously y'all again familiar with my stuff. The black and
Speaker 3: brown and indigenous experience is very important to me, part
Speaker 3: of like my mission and you know, knowing that my
Speaker 3: work is bigger than me, like that unity among the
Speaker 3: black and brown communities, and obviously growing up at LA,
Speaker 3: like yeah, the the the power broker ing that has
Speaker 3: been and can continue to be accomplished if at the
Speaker 3: policy level and the street level when there's unity has
Speaker 3: been It's been amazing in Los Angeles, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, When we finally get sure as a community,
Speaker 3: and I think your your work at scholar Match, I
Speaker 3: feel like is an example of that because we we
Speaker 3: also we too be like the first people in our
Speaker 3: families to go to college.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: In my personal family, both both of my parents went
Speaker 3: back to school. My dad went and you know, after
Speaker 3: going to Vietnam. You know what I'm saying, My mom
Speaker 3: went when I was in high school. She went back
Speaker 3: and got her degree, you know what I'm saying. But like,
Speaker 3: but me being like out of high school going into college,
Speaker 3: you know, we didn't. I didn't know you can get
Speaker 3: a fee waiver on an application, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying, Like I thought I had.
Speaker 3: I was about to pay fifty dollars for you to
Speaker 3: tell me I can't go, Like no, I'm good, I'm not.
Speaker 3: I'm a if I have to pay to apply and
Speaker 3: then pay to go, y'all tripping, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: Like what you know, we didn't know? You know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And now, like it's funny that you mentioned that
Speaker 4: because even now there were realizing in this kind of
Speaker 4: research area of access college access that even the second
Speaker 4: generation is still kind of lost because if you're just
Speaker 4: if you're first gen and you're growing and you're raising kids,
Speaker 4: which is who we are right as people, we just
Speaker 4: got out of that, Like we still trying to get
Speaker 4: our sort of like just learn, like get situated financially
Speaker 4: stable enough in a way that maybe you know, our
Speaker 4: parents didn't have to they didn't have the opportunity for
Speaker 4: but it's still not in a very you know, in
Speaker 4: a place where you're like, oh, yeah, this is an expectation,
Speaker 4: this is how you're gonna go, this is how we're
Speaker 4: going to pay, Like it's an effort to want to
Speaker 4: give this to our children as well, you know.
Speaker 1: And so second generation.
Speaker 4: You know folks also struggle through a lot of like
Speaker 4: having to learn and like be guided in that process.
Speaker 3: Which reminds me of a question now that like from
Speaker 3: a policy level, like with the new like laws around
Speaker 3: mentioning race and affirmative action and test scores and SATs
Speaker 3: and all that's good stuff. Like I listened to this
Speaker 3: deep dive new story about people trying to write their
Speaker 3: entrance essays.
Speaker 2: But and how.
Speaker 3: You you're not allowed to consider my color, you know,
Speaker 3: my race in America. But but if I'm going to
Speaker 3: talk about myself, I don't know, there's no and I
Speaker 3: don't know how else to explain this except for it's
Speaker 3: it's got to be a product of privilege to be
Speaker 3: able to tell your story and not have to include
Speaker 3: your experience as being racialized in America. It's so there's
Speaker 3: no part of my life that's not part of that,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: how how do I write about myself? Well, so as
Speaker 3: sometimes I know.
Speaker 4: And like personal essays, you can still write about anything. Word,
Speaker 4: there's no the it's affirmative action is more about like
Speaker 4: from a institutional perspective, they can't like like select or
Speaker 4: hand pick certain populations for acceptance or special review because
Speaker 4: of their their documented like check off the box.
Speaker 3: So it's not so much I can't consider your race
Speaker 3: like as you're reading these essays.
Speaker 4: No, the essays are completely different, which is interesting because
Speaker 4: that's why the folks that work in this area we
Speaker 4: have always used this as a vehicle when affirmative action
Speaker 4: was here, wasn't here?
Speaker 1: Was here again? Isn't here again?
Speaker 4: We always going to talk about this because this is
Speaker 4: the fact that your first gen the fact that you're
Speaker 4: like from an underprivileged background, like it affects your educational
Speaker 4: journey itself, right, and so like, how are you not
Speaker 4: going to talk about who you are in this personal state?
Speaker 4: So it absolutely always gets talked about, and readers, because
Speaker 4: I've been a reader for universities to like look at
Speaker 4: we aren't told not to like basically dismiss that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I thought that that was the new law,
Speaker 2: like this new.
Speaker 1: Like with the Affirmative actsporting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that has more to do with the way
Speaker 4: that institutions cannot Basically, it's illegal for them to base
Speaker 4: off of a checkbox category that was checked off to
Speaker 4: give special consideration for those students or give or allow.
Speaker 1: Certain spots for those students.
Speaker 4: So instead it's like and now they're in there with
Speaker 4: everybody else, and what they talk about is in part
Speaker 4: of the law, you could still talk about who you are,
Speaker 4: because just like those like folks who come from those
Speaker 4: backgrounds talk about that, we have students who talk about,
Speaker 4: for example, like being a prodigy of like you know
Speaker 4: whatever sport or like you know whatever other like kind
Speaker 4: of expensive instrument kind of thing that they had to do,
Speaker 4: which you know, to me as a reader, I'm thinking privilege.
Speaker 1: This person has a lot of privilege.
Speaker 4: But look, they also have used that privilege in a
Speaker 4: way where they are now like a freaking acclaimed somebody,
Speaker 4: which is like not that you need to be acclaimed
Speaker 4: for to gain admission, but like it's also a way
Speaker 4: that I think privilege can also like.
Speaker 1: Gets read into.
Speaker 4: Like these documents, Yeah, you still get to see who
Speaker 4: they are. As people you know, and then and it's
Speaker 4: super hard because that's just one of the factors in
Speaker 4: considering someone for admission, Like you look at their scores,
Speaker 4: their grades, a lot of factors.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Somebody, somebody was making the argument that like removing the
Speaker 3: test score the SAT thing is actually going to hurt
Speaker 3: a community as of color and.
Speaker 2: In a way that.
Speaker 3: If they're if their GPAs were high enough to be
Speaker 3: considered right, but not as high as you know, student
Speaker 3: a that who also came from privilege but had personal
Speaker 3: tutors and did all these different things to make sure
Speaker 3: that their grades were there.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But this person who came from a lower performing school
Speaker 3: and struggled, and you know what I'm saying, and against
Speaker 3: all odds, still hit that four point o line, doesn't
Speaker 3: have this other thing of these test scores that we
Speaker 3: all know are biased, and they still scored this you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. So you weigh both of those
Speaker 3: things together and say right now, So basically it's like
Speaker 3: you're removing this way of proving you that you've reached
Speaker 3: this level against all odds.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I could see the argument.
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be it's definitely gonna not benefit
Speaker 4: like a very few select group of students, you know,
Speaker 4: like I could see how that's going to impact them.
Speaker 4: But I think overall these tests and the ways that
Speaker 4: they were developed and why they were developed, you know,
Speaker 4: like the history of these tests like has shown how discriminatory.
Speaker 2: They actually are is to be out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like they it was like the history of
Speaker 4: it was literally eugenics.
Speaker 1: This is the history of these tests.
Speaker 4: And yeah, you know, we've evolved and we've changed them
Speaker 4: and made them different, but at the core of them,
Speaker 4: it is still very privileged people.
Speaker 1: Well that set the center.
Speaker 2: So then how do you bringing it back to you?
Speaker 2: How do you.
Speaker 3: Help these young these young homies, because I I've watched
Speaker 3: young Latina women, black women, just women period sliding your
Speaker 3: d MS in a way that.
Speaker 2: Is like you are.
Speaker 3: This picture of the possibility to them and they just
Speaker 3: so I'm just I just wonder, like, given all these
Speaker 3: things that you know personally, and then how you work
Speaker 3: with these people professionally, what in what ways do you
Speaker 3: feel like you're able to equip them to work through
Speaker 3: a system that at all these different angles are working
Speaker 3: against them. And then so I'm like, and then so
Speaker 3: answer that, and then secondly like why do you think
Speaker 3: why do you think these young women are drawn to
Speaker 3: you in the way that they are?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think they're drawn to me because
Speaker 4: in our kind of more mainstream kind of you know,
Speaker 4: social and representative kind of or non representative kind of
Speaker 4: milieu of like entertainment, we don't see a lot of
Speaker 4: representation of Latinas being educated to this level like PhD,
Speaker 4: master's level. And so when you find that one or
Speaker 4: two or three like online, you're just like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: like this this person has figured it out.
Speaker 1: How do they do that?
Speaker 4: Live and talk to them? And when I think that,
Speaker 4: the more there is and also I mean to be
Speaker 4: to also use just actual hard facts like Latina women
Speaker 4: are the unicorns in higher academia. So we are the
Speaker 4: most underrepresented faculty members across universities in the US. It's like,
Speaker 4: I think the last time I looked, it was like
Speaker 4: two to four percent of like people universal fans and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: university professors are Latinas. And so I mean, even if
Speaker 4: you just do like a random poll of people like
Speaker 4: who has had a Latina professor, it would be real
Speaker 4: bleak because most people have.
Speaker 1: Not had a Latin professor.
Speaker 2: I'm going through my I never I mean when.
Speaker 1: I was growing up, I never had Latino professors.
Speaker 3: I was like one and it was like my credentialing
Speaker 3: program one. Yeah, and I'm like that's six years of school,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, yeah, one.
Speaker 4: So one, there's that there's the fact that like it's
Speaker 4: just hard to find a mentor because there aren't a
Speaker 4: lot of us. And so then when people are like,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, you went through it, like, you know,
Speaker 4: even if it's a different path, right, like maybe they're
Speaker 4: thinking of a different kind of trajectory in terms of
Speaker 4: like the education that they want to have, it's still like, well,
Speaker 4: someone did it, so like you know, like wanting to
Speaker 4: reach out to someone that has gone through it.
Speaker 1: And then the other question was.
Speaker 3: About how do you, like, given all these things that
Speaker 3: we say, like oh, yeah, like how are you like
Speaker 3: equipping young first gen kids or people reaching out? Like
Speaker 3: what are you telling them as ways to like navigate
Speaker 3: this world?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's it's really complicated, and I mean
Speaker 4: I could I could definitely go into like some of
Speaker 4: the problematic ways that even amazing organizations like the one
Speaker 4: that I work with, kind of end up skimming the
Speaker 4: crop the krim of the cop because it's like the ones.
Speaker 1: That are already doing so else by the odds.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of research that shows like, Okay,
Speaker 4: are those the people that really need our help?
Speaker 1: Like are they going to actually just do it anyway?
Speaker 4: You know, like how can we use like how can
Speaker 4: we really test whether this program is what helped them
Speaker 4: get there versus their own and.
Speaker 2: Anyway?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's that.
Speaker 4: There's always that like kind of thing that's always lingering
Speaker 4: in the work that I do and the research that
Speaker 4: gets done in this area, because it's really hard to
Speaker 4: powers out like this was the effect of this program
Speaker 4: or this kind of mentorship as opposed to like this
Speaker 4: person was going to fulfill this destiny kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You know. Like, so there's that. So I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: put that aside.
Speaker 4: But when we don't think about that and we just
Speaker 4: think about, like, what has helped this population being successful
Speaker 4: is and this is some of the research that I
Speaker 4: did when I was in my PhD studies was that
Speaker 4: having people like mentors, teachers, literally anybody in your like
Speaker 4: community that believes that you can do this and that
Speaker 4: is willing to support, help inspire, encourage you in any
Speaker 4: way is like the biggest predictor for Latino women specifically.
Speaker 4: So I don't know, you know, there's obviously other research
Speaker 4: with men. Men are I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 4: I think you do, Like they're actually underrepresented, like black, black,
Speaker 4: and Latino men are the most underrepresented. Yeah, and so
Speaker 4: there's research that focuses on that population, right, which talks
Speaker 4: a lot about mentors as well.
Speaker 1: But so that's that's.
Speaker 4: Already an issue because if you if eighty I think
Speaker 4: the latest numbers is like eighty percent of the teaching
Speaker 4: force is white women.
Speaker 2: Like, how do we help all dangerous minds Michelle fiv.
Speaker 4: How do you help them see the value of some
Speaker 4: of these students within a classroom and the abilities that
Speaker 4: the potential for them.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: So, so anyway, so there's like research that shows like
Speaker 4: if you literally never hear anyone telling you that you
Speaker 4: can do this, it's sad, You're not gonna believe you
Speaker 4: can do this, you know, And then and it changes
Speaker 4: so much if you have at least with that one person.
Speaker 4: And so from like a personal perspective, like I feel
Speaker 4: like if you're a teacher or have that kind of
Speaker 4: a like power, like like realizing and acknowledging that power
Speaker 4: is so crucial because often they feel very powerless. It's
Speaker 4: just not a highly valued profession in our in our world.
Speaker 4: So one there's that. And then from the perspective of
Speaker 4: like a program like a non GM like a you
Speaker 4: know gym uh in geo and geo thank you coming
Speaker 4: in to like working with this community. There's a lot
Speaker 4: that shows that, you know, sometimes just having that gap
Speaker 4: between what the university is offering in terms of internship,
Speaker 4: in terms of like scholarships and like fund and and
Speaker 4: what your family can actually afford to give you, like
Speaker 4: filling in that gap of like financial targeted money, like
Speaker 4: for things that you don't even know you how to pay,
Speaker 4: like orientation, Oh I got to pay now to like
Speaker 4: get oriented in your college.
Speaker 2: Fan that I just paid too. I was like, what
Speaker 2: am I paying for them?
Speaker 1: Yeah? There's all these little Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4: Become highly prohibitive for people who like don't come. That
Speaker 4: means basically like not paying half of their like groceries
Speaker 4: that week or something. You know, like these are real
Speaker 4: decisions being made.
Speaker 3: When when I tell you when they handed me to
Speaker 3: syllabus and was like, Okay, go buy this.
Speaker 1: You gotta go buy books. I was like, what, Like
Speaker 1: that's not inclan intuition. No, it's not what they.
Speaker 3: Like, I have to take this class and I gotta
Speaker 3: buy the book. Like I was like dumbfounded, like what
Speaker 3: are y'all talking about? And then they were like, I'm
Speaker 3: like honestly, honestly the first class first day when he
Speaker 3: was like, it's at the bookstore. There's also you could
Speaker 3: get a used coffee. There's also some off campus bookstores.
Speaker 3: You know, there's this since you can if you can
Speaker 3: find it here, you can find it. I was literally
Speaker 3: sitting in that class so confused. I was like what
Speaker 3: is he talking about? Like I didn't understand what they
Speaker 3: was saying. I was looking around at everybody being like
Speaker 3: and I had to surmise it. I'm telling you I'm already.
Speaker 3: I'm already, except I'm in the class and I'm putting
Speaker 3: it together like, oh I I gotta buy it.
Speaker 1: Dang, that's that. Are you trying to tell our students
Speaker 1: ahead of time?
Speaker 2: That's all trying to say stuff like that.
Speaker 1: That they're gonna have to buy the books.
Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of costs that you don't
Speaker 4: think about, like transportation.
Speaker 2: I was, you're gonna get hungry, dude. I figured that
Speaker 2: stuff I figured out. I was like, I know this.
Speaker 2: I'm an art major.
Speaker 3: I know, like I'm gonna have to buy the paint
Speaker 3: like I understood stuff like that. But I was like,
Speaker 3: but just the academic class, like I gotta buy them.
Speaker 2: I understood.
Speaker 1: I had to, especially when you come from public school
Speaker 1: where all the books.
Speaker 3: Are drawing on dis all drawn in the book.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking kinds of graffitian.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that, like I'm about to know who had
Speaker 2: my book before me.
Speaker 4: Where you should have done has gone to a private school,
Speaker 4: then you would have known you've always had to pay
Speaker 4: for books.
Speaker 2: I was like, what is they?
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Like, I like you unlocked
Speaker 3: a memory. I was honestly like, what is she talking about?
Speaker 4: Like yeah, So anyway, so there's like the financial stuff,
Speaker 4: then there's like the social emotional stuff, so like getting
Speaker 4: them just mentally ready for like the difference that it's
Speaker 4: going to be because a lot of our students come
Speaker 4: from under resourced schools too, and so they think this
Speaker 4: is the expectation that's going to happen at this college
Speaker 4: and it's not it's gonna there's gonna be a very
Speaker 4: like vast difference, and like how do you like properly study?
Speaker 4: How do you know, building up those skills is another thing,
Speaker 4: and then building up the like kind of emotional maturity
Speaker 4: of like how do you know you're just being homesick,
Speaker 4: Like it's not that you want to like quit everything.
Speaker 4: You just missed your mom, So go home, you know,
Speaker 4: like like reconnect and then come back refuel yourself to
Speaker 4: keep going.
Speaker 2: You're telling little homies this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what we focus on.
Speaker 4: So we focus on like the social, emotional, the financial,
Speaker 4: and the academic.
Speaker 3: Dude, I like the last Terrorform episode we had was
Speaker 3: with Zekiah. I had expectations and I just kind of
Speaker 3: talked to me like, yeah, how my experience of like
Speaker 3: going from you know, my neighborhood of origin to this
Speaker 3: high school in the suburbs that was much more resourced,
Speaker 3: but feeling.
Speaker 2: Like, like I said, I know what I lost.
Speaker 3: What I lost was that black and brown community was
Speaker 3: a world around me that looked familiar. That like you said,
Speaker 3: that was like where I had that camaraderie, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So I think in some senses.
Speaker 3: By the time I got to college, I was prepared
Speaker 3: to be a fish out of water, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, because my high school felt like a fish
Speaker 3: out of water, you know, and how to like just
Speaker 3: shut up and figure out what I needed, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean.
Speaker 2: But what that taught me was.
Speaker 3: I can't trust the institution, like because y'all don't understand me.
Speaker 3: So like in my high school I had the first
Speaker 3: time I saw our college counselor, our counselor at our
Speaker 3: school was at graduation. That's first time I saw her.
Speaker 3: I was like, I never went to an office, I
Speaker 3: never checked. I was like, you don't you don't understand me.
Speaker 3: You don't know what I want? Like this not like
Speaker 3: our own ownt We have different goals, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 4: And also to be kind of fairter than that, you know, counselors,
Speaker 4: that's a whole other profession that is undervaluable.
Speaker 2: It's very under I.
Speaker 1: Have like three hundred students per one.
Speaker 2: I believe it.
Speaker 1: They have to, you know, it's so hard to really.
Speaker 3: Get I believe it for sure. But like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: say this not as a slight to her, yeahs to me.
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't I don't trust this place. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you guys don't have my best interest in mine. There
Speaker 3: were one or two teachers that I was connected with
Speaker 3: forever shoutow, mister Jeffries, Miss Crone and mister Pilicky like
Speaker 3: these people that you know. Miss ms Gutera is my
Speaker 3: ap arts teacher, like who who came in and were
Speaker 3: very specific about as as educators. Like yeah, okay, so
Speaker 3: that was but that was the enterprise. I learned to
Speaker 3: trust them. You feel me, But I felt like I was.
Speaker 3: I was on my own.
Speaker 2: So when I got to college, it kind of felt
Speaker 2: the same way.
Speaker 3: And then but like any people co to you, just
Speaker 3: I immediately found the black people.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, let me find the black people,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So once you find the black people, it was that
Speaker 3: stopped the homesick thing for me.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, yeah, you created your own family.
Speaker 3: You create your own family. I'm like, y'all understand it.
Speaker 3: And since we went to school in Orange County, a
Speaker 3: lot of us were from la you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: So like we had a lot of like home experiences
Speaker 3: that were very simil So we found each other la like.
Speaker 2: Even even like I E.
Speaker 3: SGV like, so we had an experience that was so
Speaker 3: similar to each other that we were just kicking in
Speaker 3: the quad. And and to me, that reminded me of
Speaker 3: high school also because that's what happened. I found the
Speaker 3: black people in high school, you said, and like and
Speaker 3: you you you created your own community. But this was again,
Speaker 3: this was us blindly to blind like, we know what
Speaker 3: the hell we was doing?
Speaker 2: You feel me?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's That's also something else that we
Speaker 4: often see with our student population is a lot of them,
Speaker 4: especially those going to predominantly white institutions, they end up joining.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they end up joining like.
Speaker 4: Affinity groups like that because it's what helps them feel like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: I belong here, it's okay that you know school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't gonna join no, fred, I'll say you
Speaker 3: that I didn't know. I thought all that I need
Speaker 3: to wrap this up because I want to end with
Speaker 3: the keep on a book. But I thought all frats
Speaker 3: were like black black fraternities. So I didn't realize I
Speaker 3: didn't really like, like I said, my only unders standing
Speaker 3: was like school Days was like Spike Lee Movies was
Speaker 3: like a different world, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 2: Cosby, she didn't want to join win.
Speaker 3: No, I wanted to join one of those. But when
Speaker 3: I went to the school, they was all so. I
Speaker 3: remember I walked up to one of the fraternities. I
Speaker 3: was like, Hey, tell me about y'all step team. That
Speaker 3: white boy looked at me like what. I was like,
Speaker 3: step Team? He was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, did know?
Speaker 3: I was like I walked away like weirdo, you know.
Speaker 3: And then I'm teasing like some of the other black people.
Speaker 3: I was like, this fool's scatting on the step team
Speaker 3: was He was like, yeah, that's that's the community at homies.
Speaker 2: He was like that's because they white. And I was
Speaker 2: like what.
Speaker 3: He was like, you're talking to me, No, those are
Speaker 3: black fraternities. Those are only there's only a handful of
Speaker 3: black fraternities. And I was like I felt I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: every fraternity He like, oh, like my little Wakanda. I
Speaker 3: thought they was all.
Speaker 4: For people that don't know what fraternities are, their gangs
Speaker 4: and essentially.
Speaker 3: And my dad, you know, his black panther self, was like,
Speaker 3: oh why I would celebrate Greek culture. He was like,
Speaker 3: black man got Greek letters on his chest. And I
Speaker 3: was like, all right, dad, I was like, what about
Speaker 3: black fraternities. I don't understand why black man would celebrate,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So he was like, don't eternity? All right? Now
Speaker 2: I'm looking back like, damn my hell, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean there's like Latina for like sororities.
Speaker 4: Now some of my students are in those, and I
Speaker 4: think it's dope. I think it's dope that they find.
Speaker 2: Oh I found all right, all right, I definitely found
Speaker 2: what it is. Boy.
Speaker 3: Anyway, No, so let me end with the book king
Speaker 3: going on, because I feel like that's the most tangible
Speaker 3: thing at least for the listeners to pick up, yeah,
Speaker 3: and to be like, Okay, this is the good you're
Speaker 3: putting in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And I think I often hear from folks who maybe
Speaker 4: are not Latinas themselves, but that like are mentoring folks
Speaker 4: that are or just kind of no folks are. I've
Speaker 4: had some folks reach out and be like, dude, it
Speaker 4: was so cool to like give this to my Latina student,
Speaker 4: because you know, I'm black and I don't really like
Speaker 4: we obviously she like found me, but like I, you know,
Speaker 4: we don't share that cultural kind of Yeah, so it's
Speaker 4: it's really cool. But yeah, so Chinona owning your inner
Speaker 4: vedask for healing injustice. It's it's it's a memoir and
Speaker 4: it's also a bit of visionary kind of fiction on
Speaker 4: what the world could look like if we healed, Like
Speaker 4: if you know, I started out by saying that to me,
Speaker 4: a lot of the work in changing the world starts
Speaker 4: in the very like personal. I definitely come from a
Speaker 4: school of like just the personal as political. If you change,
Speaker 4: you know, you create change, and that change gets you know,
Speaker 4: kind of multiplied across your you know, lifetime and and
Speaker 4: on to other people. And I feel like that's the
Speaker 4: way that I've been able to affect change. And so
Speaker 4: this book kind of chronicles lot of like my own
Speaker 4: journey into this way of thinking. And then also, you know,
Speaker 4: it's it's not a how to book, Like I was
Speaker 4: very intentional and like not wanting to write a book on.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, here's how you like succeed and do the things.
Speaker 4: It's more of like journeying with you you know, like
Speaker 4: how you know this is how I this was my journey.
Speaker 4: What are some things that in your own journey that
Speaker 4: you could be thinking about? So I do have some
Speaker 4: questions in there. Honestly there were questions that I was
Speaker 4: just asking myself as I was writing this, but that
Speaker 4: I feel like have been really helpful for folks. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and then also just a lot on mental health because I,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm someone who struggles with anxiety and depression
Speaker 4: and so it's something that has always been, you know,
Speaker 4: a way that I've had to like learn how to
Speaker 4: cope and heal and yeah, you know, just all of that.
Speaker 1: So it's it's.
Speaker 4: Something that's very personal but also tries to to create
Speaker 4: like this way of thinking about jingoonas as this universal
Speaker 4: concept of like how do how do you become you know,
Speaker 4: who you want to be despite these labels that get
Speaker 4: placed on you, Like how do you still like you know,
Speaker 4: use them for your advantage, reclaim them and then kind
Speaker 4: of fulfill your own kind of goals?
Speaker 2: Beautiful?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 2: How can people follow your work? You are?
Speaker 3: You're the most anti social media person? Yes, so like,
Speaker 3: don't take a personal response to you.
Speaker 4: I actually respond to all messages that are not marketing,
Speaker 4: not marketing or trying to make me sell some kind
Speaker 4: of like something normal.
Speaker 1: TOI level marketing.
Speaker 4: But if it's like you know, messages about like the
Speaker 4: book or just like about wanting to meet I actually are.
Speaker 1: You'd be surprised. Not a lot of people get to
Speaker 1: that level.
Speaker 4: I think some people feel more comfortable just liking somebody's
Speaker 4: picture than actually sending a message. So I don't actually
Speaker 4: get a lot of messages. Or maybe it's because I
Speaker 4: just don't be on social media, like on social media
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you get into, you get in to send us,
Speaker 3: send us reels like just listen to her on there anyway,
Speaker 3: So can you drop that ad mentioned then?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's at the doc ZP th h E
Speaker 1: d O c ZP.
Speaker 2: Thank you for doing this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me. Fun to finally be on
Speaker 4: your very fancy show.
Speaker 2: You dumped me, but the podcast dump But.
Speaker 4: Look at you went on and you have a better relationship,
Speaker 4: you grew as a person.
Speaker 3: Oh lord, all right, I'm hitting stop now. Thank you
Speaker 3: very much, y'all. We'll be back next week, as you know.
Speaker 3: All right, now, don't you hit stop on this pod.
Speaker 3: You better listen to these credits. I need you to
Speaker 3: finish this thing so I can get the download numbers.
Speaker 2: Okay, so don't stop it yet, but listen.
Speaker 3: This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights by your
Speaker 3: boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop hip hop
Speaker 3: dot com. If you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got
Speaker 3: terraform Coldbrew. You can go there dot com and use
Speaker 3: promo code hood get twenty percent off.
Speaker 2: Get yourself some coffee.
Speaker 3: This was mixed, edited and mastered by your boy Matt
Speaker 3: Alsowski killing the Beast softly. Check out his website Matdowsowski
Speaker 3: dot com.
Speaker 2: I'm a speller for you because I know M.
Speaker 3: A T T O S O W s ki dot
Speaker 3: com Matthowsowski dot com. He got more music and stuff
Speaker 3: like that on there, so gonna check out The heat.
Speaker 3: Politics is a member of cool Zone Media, Executive produced
Speaker 3: by Sophie Lichterman, part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your
Speaker 3: theme music and scoring is also by the one and
Speaker 3: overly Matthouselowski. Still killing the beats softly, So listen, don't
Speaker 3: let nobody lie to you. If you understand urban living,
Speaker 3: you understand politics. These people is not smarter than you.
Speaker 3: We'll see y'all next week.