Speaker 1: Hi, guys, It's Sammy J. And for this episode, we
Speaker 1: talked to Kesha. I was really excited for this interview,
Speaker 1: but I also didn't know what to expect going into it.
Speaker 1: At the end, I realized that we are soul sisters.
Speaker 1: We talked about so much. We talked about her philosophy
Speaker 1: and life, positivity, going through hard times, her new album
Speaker 1: High Road, her makeup Blank keshro Is Beauty, and much more.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting conversation and I hope you enjoyed.
Speaker 1: You guys. Kesh is on this week's episode of my podcast.
Speaker 1: I am so excited you are here. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to be talking to you. I'm so impressed. You know,
Speaker 1: I've admired you for so long, not just because you're
Speaker 1: songwriting skills, but just because if you're honesty and you're
Speaker 1: just so candid about everything, and it's very refreshing. Thanks.
Speaker 1: I I think that the culture right now is so
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about this when I was home.
Speaker 1: I was like going in my head in circles about it.
Speaker 1: I want to be as open as possible, but then
Speaker 1: I'm so scared I'm gonna say one stupid thing and
Speaker 1: the whole world canceled or whatever. The cancel culture that's
Speaker 1: such a thing now, so I want to be as
Speaker 1: open as possible. But it's kind of also terrifying. It's
Speaker 1: terrified because you say one stupid thing, which I do
Speaker 1: all the time. Everybody says stupids just being human exactly,
Speaker 1: but then you get canceled. I just started canceling. I
Speaker 1: think they should cancel a canceled culture. I agree with that. Well,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about a lot of
Speaker 1: things today. I want to start just with your new album,
Speaker 1: high Road. I'm so excited. How long did it take
Speaker 1: you to make this album? Um? Some of the songs
Speaker 1: I've been working on since before Rainbow came out, there
Speaker 1: actually songs I wanted to put on Rainbow, but I
Speaker 1: didn't have really the space, and I wanted to save
Speaker 1: them for a lighter time. Like I really wanted Rainbow
Speaker 1: to be a specific thing. I had a really specific
Speaker 1: idea for what I wanted Rainbow to be. So there
Speaker 1: were some songs that I just kind of felt it
Speaker 1: wasn't the right time and place, So I kept in
Speaker 1: my back. Because I'm a songwriter, I've written so many songs,
Speaker 1: so I was like, I'm going to save this for
Speaker 1: after this album. And so this record, you know, four
Speaker 1: years some of the songs and then some of them
Speaker 1: I'm still finishing. Really, So how fast is a turnaround
Speaker 1: for a song? Would you say, Oh, it can be
Speaker 1: anywhere from like a song on my first record, I
Speaker 1: think I had written on and off for like six years,
Speaker 1: So it could be anywhere from six years to one day.
Speaker 1: Would you say your perfectionist with Seth, I'm like O. C. D.
Speaker 1: When it comes to arn't really. Yeah. So the this
Speaker 1: record coming out High Road and Rainbow, I got to
Speaker 1: executive produce, so I got to pick every song. I
Speaker 1: got to write every song, I got to pick every
Speaker 1: drum sound, I got to pick every good guitar tone,
Speaker 1: and I just I also don't really care as much
Speaker 1: if people like it or dislike it, because I'm proud
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. Is that how you define success? Yeah?
Speaker 1: For me, I think it's been a learning process of
Speaker 1: how to define success, And for me, it's if I
Speaker 1: feel like I was as honest as I could be
Speaker 1: and as connected to the truth as I can be,
Speaker 1: and if that's happening. And also with my new record,
Speaker 1: I really want to make my fans happy because they've
Speaker 1: been through it with me. We've gone on a long tumu,
Speaker 1: very tumultuous road. That's looks great about your music. It's
Speaker 1: a journey. It's not just like album just for music.
Speaker 1: It's like you can see your progression as an artist,
Speaker 1: which is the coolest thing. Thank you. And like, I
Speaker 1: don't even you're probably if you're seventeen. You were seven
Speaker 1: when TikTok came out. That sounds about right. So it's
Speaker 1: like just crazy to me that like you would even
Speaker 1: know the progression of me as an artist because you're
Speaker 1: so young. But that's so impressive that you've probably heard
Speaker 1: Animal I hope. But even if you haven't, if high
Speaker 1: Road is the first record you hear from me, hopefully
Speaker 1: you'll get the broad scope of who I am as
Speaker 1: a human and artist. So after people listen to High Road,
Speaker 1: what do you want them to take away from it?
Speaker 1: I think that the number one thing is you can
Speaker 1: go through things in life that are difficult and come
Speaker 1: out on the other side and reclaim your happiness and
Speaker 1: find your joy and I feel like yourself and it
Speaker 1: might be something you'll never truly get over, but that's okay,
Speaker 1: and you can grow from the pain and make art
Speaker 1: out of it, and I think it's so difficult to do.
Speaker 1: Though it is difficult, but it also heartbreak creates great
Speaker 1: art in my opinion, So even if it's any kind
Speaker 1: of heartbreak, you know, yeah, I mean I think you
Speaker 1: know it's your album's called high Road. Is that why
Speaker 1: you chose to name it that? It's actually a little
Speaker 1: play on words. So after I put out Praying for
Speaker 1: my last record, I thought people would really expect me
Speaker 1: to be taking the high road on like in all
Speaker 1: case scenarios. But sorry, dad, But the song high Road
Speaker 1: itself is actually about there are all these things on
Speaker 1: social media that used to just get to me and
Speaker 1: like be so grating and would really affect me. And
Speaker 1: now it's legal here, but now I just get stoned
Speaker 1: and laugh about it, and I really try not to
Speaker 1: let it affect me, which is more difficult than just
Speaker 1: saying that. But like, that's what the song is about,
Speaker 1: is just being like, I'm just gonna get high and
Speaker 1: laugh at this because it's so petty. Well, for those
Speaker 1: who don't know, we are actually recording this episode where
Speaker 1: you recorded Praying Yes in the studio. In the studio,
Speaker 1: this is so this studio must mean just a lot
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, I've recorded. I recorded with Alice Cooper
Speaker 1: in the studio. I recorded praying in the studio. We've
Speaker 1: recorded a lot of stuff in the studio. The engineer
Speaker 1: who's here with us today is like he's recorded a
Speaker 1: lot of the songs that he could probably remember more
Speaker 1: than that that we recorded here. But we've recorded tons
Speaker 1: of stuff in here. Wow. I think this album of
Speaker 1: yours I personally love because I think it's very eclectic
Speaker 1: and there are so many different styles in one song,
Speaker 1: you know, So what is the process for you for
Speaker 1: just eating a song? For this record, it was different
Speaker 1: than ever before because, like for Rainbow, I had a
Speaker 1: lot of emotional baggage to sort through, and on this record,
Speaker 1: I really wanted to allow myself to move forward in
Speaker 1: my life. Like I said, never get over something, but
Speaker 1: allow myself to move forward in trying to find and
Speaker 1: reclaim my voice and my joy and my happiness and
Speaker 1: all of those things. And I just realized I really
Speaker 1: didn't want to have any expectations for myself. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to have to adhere to any boundaries or genres,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to, like purely funk around and
Speaker 1: see what happened. And good. That's because I'll be listening
Speaker 1: to Run the Jewels, and then I'll be listening to Queen,
Speaker 1: and then I'll be listening to Cardi B. So it's
Speaker 1: like all different kinds of influences that make me happy.
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to make my fans really really happy.
Speaker 1: And you put that in all just one album, because
Speaker 1: I mean, why not. It's also it's my personality, so
Speaker 1: why not put it all on one true Do you
Speaker 1: have a favorite song off the album? I think today
Speaker 1: my favorite song off the album is Resentment. But I'm
Speaker 1: just like so excited. It's a beautiful song. And you
Speaker 1: have a lot of collaborations on this album. Brian Wilson
Speaker 1: just a classic, well just iconic legend god himself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with pet Sounds and I think that he's
Speaker 1: one of the most brilliant minds music has ever seen.
Speaker 1: So for him to even like know that I exist
Speaker 1: on the planet Earth is insane. And let alone do
Speaker 1: a song because for me, like recording with an artist
Speaker 1: or working with an artist, or collaborating and just taking
Speaker 1: the time to spend time with each other on a
Speaker 1: piece of art together. That's the highest form of respect
Speaker 1: in my book. Yeah, and just like have him have
Speaker 1: anything to do with me on any levels just insanity.
Speaker 1: And also Stirgill Simpson is like a dream come true.
Speaker 1: And then a really close friend of mine and collaborator,
Speaker 1: an amazing songwriter, Ray Ball, is on there. So it's
Speaker 1: just like this dream team of some of my favorite
Speaker 1: human beings on the earth, even people that you've looked
Speaker 1: up to for years since I was like a child,
Speaker 1: So how long have you been writing music? Like, were
Speaker 1: you like writing poetry as a kid and you didn't
Speaker 1: even know what re turnto music? Or was it a
Speaker 1: later on things as you were a teenager. So my
Speaker 1: mom's a songwriter and she wrote songs for Dolly Parton
Speaker 1: and Johnny Cash. So I grew up always being around
Speaker 1: studios and always being around songs. I would grow up
Speaker 1: like being in the the sound booth while she was
Speaker 1: observing it all. Yeah, and I always loved it. And
Speaker 1: I would walk around singing and everyone would be like,
Speaker 1: tell the kid to shut up. I were studying it
Speaker 1: and you didn't even know it. And so then when
Speaker 1: I went to like middle school, high school was total hell.
Speaker 1: Like we're talking about earlier, school sucks and at least
Speaker 1: from a social aspect, and really it's high school can
Speaker 1: be hard, it can be really really hard it and
Speaker 1: I didn't have the greatest time. I grew up in
Speaker 1: the Bible Belt. There was a lot of closed mindedness, homophobia, racism,
Speaker 1: a lot of that happening, and I just felt like,
Speaker 1: like totally to get away from comfortable. I felt really
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and very isolated and like total outcast and misfit
Speaker 1: of school. And I just got like so made fun
Speaker 1: of and never had a group of friends till I
Speaker 1: moved to Los Angeles and I found people that kind
Speaker 1: of understood me. But that's when I started writing songs.
Speaker 1: Is when I just started having this outsider feeling. I
Speaker 1: just always felt like I was outside of everything, especially
Speaker 1: at school. I can relate to that. It's a hard feeling.
Speaker 1: It sucks, it really sucks, but if you can use
Speaker 1: it and channel it and help create your dreams by
Speaker 1: just being like, Okay, I'm not going to focus on
Speaker 1: the pettiness that's happening at school. I'm an focus on
Speaker 1: where I want to go and what i want to be,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to let this help drive me. That's
Speaker 1: how I took it, and it seems like you're doing
Speaker 1: the same thing I'm trying. It's hard, though. What would
Speaker 1: you say to your younger self, you're seventeen year old self,
Speaker 1: I would say, don't be so hard on yourself and
Speaker 1: it's all going to be okay. Man, it's like you're
Speaker 1: talking to me. I can feel that we are kindred spirits.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I just like know how that feels
Speaker 1: to be in school and not feel like you're being
Speaker 1: seen or understood or belonging. And it's just like a
Speaker 1: really it makes you feel bad about yourself. It's so
Speaker 1: very demoralizing and I and I hate that for anybody
Speaker 1: who's going through it. But I will say, you can
Speaker 1: get out of town and create a whole life that
Speaker 1: is perfectly for you, and it does get better. I
Speaker 1: know it sounds so cheesy, but like once you follow
Speaker 1: your dreams, it gets better and more comfortable. It's hard
Speaker 1: to remember in the moment. Have you ever seen the
Speaker 1: musical Deer of Van Hanson? I have not. Okay, if
Speaker 1: you like, you know, I will write it down. I
Speaker 1: will take now, just listen to the like the album
Speaker 1: you can listen to it, you will like connect with
Speaker 1: it because we we like you were on the same
Speaker 1: level here, like listen to that, like you we're blown away.
Speaker 1: I won't. I won't. It's gonna be great, is it?
Speaker 1: What's it about? It's about UM, a high school kid
Speaker 1: with anxiety and he goes into the new school. We are.
Speaker 1: It's a very dark subject. It deals with like suicide
Speaker 1: and love and all this and that. But it's about I,
Speaker 1: at least I took away from because it is a
Speaker 1: very depressing musical. Just coming out on the other side
Speaker 1: of it and inspiring. And I think you know, through
Speaker 1: your music you really channel just the positivity. And I'm
Speaker 1: actually really interested with your philosophy and positivity because it's
Speaker 1: hard to UM, it's hard to forgive and it's hard
Speaker 1: to move on, especially with the positive mindset. How do
Speaker 1: you do that? UM? I can't say that I'm perfect
Speaker 1: at it, Like you know, when I'm talking with people,
Speaker 1: I feel like I want to be this perfect role model, right,
Speaker 1: But I struggle with forgiveness. It's hard sometimes because you
Speaker 1: can forgive, but you don't forget what people do to
Speaker 1: you or what they say to you. So it can
Speaker 1: be really difficult to rebuild trust. That's what my song
Speaker 1: Resentment is about, is you get resentments towards people and
Speaker 1: unless you address them, they can really destroy relationships. And
Speaker 1: I just try to always remember that I'm really really
Speaker 1: lucky to get to do my dream as a job,
Speaker 1: and it's not just my job, it's my life. And
Speaker 1: I get to do things like this and meet other
Speaker 1: really talented, amazing people and talk about art as my
Speaker 1: life and it's so cool. But like, this is your
Speaker 1: job when you would be doing it even if it
Speaker 1: wasn't be doing it if I was not getting paid
Speaker 1: at time, exactly. But that's when you know when you
Speaker 1: love something, Yeah, it's your dream. And when it comes
Speaker 1: to fruition, I just try to live in the gratitude.
Speaker 1: And then I also, just when I was going through
Speaker 1: a really dark time a couple of years ago, there
Speaker 1: were a lot of people total strangers that were really
Speaker 1: really kind to me that I had never met before
Speaker 1: and had no reason to be nice to me. And
Speaker 1: I just remember feeling so overwhelmed that I could just
Speaker 1: still cry about it every time I think about it.
Speaker 1: I just I'm like, these people had no reason to
Speaker 1: be nice to me or there for me or supportive,
Speaker 1: and they were, and I just want to be that
Speaker 1: way towards other people. Yeah, kind of does so much,
Speaker 1: like just the simplest thing because you don't know what
Speaker 1: everyone's going through. You have no idea what anyone is
Speaker 1: going through. Yeah, like even someone that flips you off
Speaker 1: in the car when you're driving, Like, of course I
Speaker 1: get that initial reaction to be like fuck you, yeah
Speaker 1: like that, but then I'm like, Okay, you don't know
Speaker 1: what they're going through. Just take a deep breath, turn
Speaker 1: on some CARDI B. Everything's gonna be okay. You know,
Speaker 1: there's actually a quote that I saw that I wanted
Speaker 1: to tell you. I don't I don't know who it's by,
Speaker 1: so if anyone knows, let me know. But it's anger
Speaker 1: is a punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Speaker 1: And I never heard that. I was like, huh, it's
Speaker 1: so true, right, Like it's a punishment we give ourselves.
Speaker 1: It's like that feeling when for someone else's action and
Speaker 1: take it personally. Yeah, that's the thing. If you've ever
Speaker 1: read The Four Agreements, and if not, it's a short,
Speaker 1: awesome book and one of the four Agreements of life
Speaker 1: is trying not to take things personally. So when people
Speaker 1: rude or mean or just like girls or bitches at school,
Speaker 1: or you know, people have been caddy in the business
Speaker 1: simon and I just try not to take it personally
Speaker 1: because everyone has their own insecurities and it's usually not
Speaker 1: coming from it's like projection. I've done a lot of
Speaker 1: therapy around this stuff, but especially if I've ever been
Speaker 1: jealous of someone in the past, I now realize that
Speaker 1: it's just my own insecurities. So I try to go
Speaker 1: into all things in my career and just be like
Speaker 1: hopeful and positive for every else. Because people were kind
Speaker 1: to me when I needed it, so I just want
Speaker 1: to be kind to people. I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: definitely shows good hope. So because I feel changed by
Speaker 1: the kindness I received, I felt like like taken aback
Speaker 1: and realized the power it can have. Would you say
Speaker 1: that others people kindness inspired you in your music? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and inspired me to be a better person and not
Speaker 1: feel especially in industries women are so much pitted against
Speaker 1: each other, but also to support each other because there's
Speaker 1: enough room for everybody. Exactly. It took the words in
Speaker 1: my mouth and in entertainment but kind of it all
Speaker 1: starts in like high school, and then in movies women
Speaker 1: are fighting over a guy, and I just think it's
Speaker 1: kind of set up. It's setting us up all wrong,
Speaker 1: Like we should band together. There's room for everyone, and
Speaker 1: it's not a competition. Life's not a competition. Like, I
Speaker 1: just really want to be super supportive, especially of women
Speaker 1: in this business, because that's what I received, and it
Speaker 1: was shocking how like impactful that was, and it changed
Speaker 1: my life. Okay, here's a question. Do you think you'd
Speaker 1: ever write a musical? Hell, yeah, I actually thought about it.
Speaker 1: You should do it on this topic. I was thinking
Speaker 1: about that and just like the evolution of mankind and
Speaker 1: where society is going and how kind of fucked. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like trying to stay hopeful. Yeah, like that's all
Speaker 1: you can do at this point. It's all that you
Speaker 1: can do, just especially with social issues. That's my main
Speaker 1: you know, place of concern is just where we have
Speaker 1: made progress. I just don't want to go backwards. And
Speaker 1: I just see we're already starting. I've already yea And
Speaker 1: you see it and you feel it and you want
Speaker 1: to fight against it. And I feel as if there's
Speaker 1: just racism raging and home of obia raging and anti semitic,
Speaker 1: like it's everywhere, just anybody you want to fill in
Speaker 1: the blank. So I think it's just important to just
Speaker 1: try to spread love as much as you can, positivity
Speaker 1: and good good vibes, because that's all you can do
Speaker 1: at this point. You know, vote, vote, I'm actually going
Speaker 1: to be voting in this the first first time. So important.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, just like I've been, Like, I'm taking
Speaker 1: you as government class and a US history, so I'm
Speaker 1: like extra educating myself, watch the news every so like
Speaker 1: trying to like stay intact with it smart because you
Speaker 1: learn what not to do from not repeating habits that
Speaker 1: we have maybe done in the past and made mistakes
Speaker 1: within no history, to not repeat history. Yeah, I kind
Speaker 1: of did the same thing in high school. I studied
Speaker 1: a lot of um. I studied could where history for fun.
Speaker 1: I was studying religious history. I was obsessed. So was
Speaker 1: history your favorite subject when you in scool? Did you
Speaker 1: like anything? I liked it all, honestly, I really like
Speaker 1: That's like me. I love learning, but I hate the
Speaker 1: other aspect of it. I hated like the rest all
Speaker 1: of it, but I liked learning information because I feel
Speaker 1: like information does help you create a more educated decision
Speaker 1: about who to be and how to act. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure that affects your songwriting too. The more you know
Speaker 1: on the topic, it can affect how the song sounds well,
Speaker 1: especially just also knowing that when I first started out,
Speaker 1: this was again ten years ago. I just want to
Speaker 1: make people dance and shake their ass and I still,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's still a goal of mine. I still
Speaker 1: want to make people a dance and have the best
Speaker 1: night of their life when they come to a show
Speaker 1: like that. But I just the more I've learned about
Speaker 1: social progress and also going backwards, the more I want
Speaker 1: to put messages and meaning and depth into not only
Speaker 1: my music, but also give back in any way I can.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, it's not just like this
Speaker 1: total nurse assist being a famous person thing. It's also
Speaker 1: utilizing your life platform and all of that. Well, I
Speaker 1: think we have to talk about TikTok. I feel like
Speaker 1: it would just be a shame, It would be it
Speaker 1: would just be a shame if we didn't. How did
Speaker 1: do you How did that song come about? And do
Speaker 1: you realize it would be such a hit that it began. No,
Speaker 1: you never know what's going to be a hit and
Speaker 1: what's not. You really don't. You just write songs. Pray
Speaker 1: for the best and that song actually, I remember writing
Speaker 1: the lyrics and I was like, this is like it
Speaker 1: was a joke. I was joking. I was like taking
Speaker 1: the piss out of like life, and I wrote all
Speaker 1: these different lyrics that were a lot deeper and more complicated,
Speaker 1: and then I just wrote TikTok versus as literally a joke.
Speaker 1: And then I remember somebody I was working with was
Speaker 1: just like, just for fun, make it as dumb as
Speaker 1: humanly possible the money, yeah, And I was like pedicures
Speaker 1: on my test test and they're like, that's great it
Speaker 1: and I was like, but it's so dumb, Like it's good.
Speaker 1: But I think it also set my career up in
Speaker 1: a way where people didn't know if I wasn't on
Speaker 1: the joke or not. So I've spent if you were,
Speaker 1: if that's how you actually worked an artist, or if
Speaker 1: that was just you messing your head. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: don't know if you listened to the Best Boys, but
Speaker 1: especially their first record, like it was them having fun
Speaker 1: and just kind of being idiots and being happy and
Speaker 1: fun and joking about ship and just like being nihilist
Speaker 1: young people. And that was kind of where my head
Speaker 1: was at then. But then I also think that I
Speaker 1: had to spend a solid like five years trying to
Speaker 1: prove to people that I had a brain? Was that?
Speaker 1: Do you think that made it harder for you to
Speaker 1: prove yourself in the industry because you know that was
Speaker 1: your breakout song, but it wasn't everything you could accomplish
Speaker 1: as an artist, right, And it did. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I've had to just proved myself over and over
Speaker 1: and over, and I finally feel like with this record,
Speaker 1: I only feel like I've been seen and heard for
Speaker 1: all sides of my personality, because I do have a
Speaker 1: side that's just kind of a jackass, but then I
Speaker 1: have a really emotional side that's every person. And that's
Speaker 1: what I think. I felt like I finally got to
Speaker 1: showcase on my last record, and so on this new record,
Speaker 1: I have both sides. It's like a mix of it
Speaker 1: all and like all sides of my voice, all sides
Speaker 1: of my personality, and I hope people can have so
Speaker 1: much fun with it. But also there are songs where
Speaker 1: I'm like wailing and singing and that are really depressing.
Speaker 1: So it just depends on the day and how I'm
Speaker 1: feeling that day. But you can also be all those things.
Speaker 1: The song Father Daughter Dance, it is so beautiful. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Is it hard to be that vulnerable on your records,
Speaker 1: because I know you did that with Praying and Rainbow
Speaker 1: and that whole album, um, but it's still hard to
Speaker 1: put out things so just authentic to your life. Well,
Speaker 1: that one was particular, literally hard. I was actually in
Speaker 1: the studio. Yeah, we're in this room, and I was
Speaker 1: working with him and my friend Drew, who I did
Speaker 1: a good portion of Rainbow with two he's a producer.
Speaker 1: And I never really thought I had that much emotion
Speaker 1: behind not growing up with a father figure, and and
Speaker 1: then it just kind of started happening, like it really
Speaker 1: was my stream of consciousness. But I wasn't even conscious
Speaker 1: of it. It was you didn't realize how much he
Speaker 1: needed to put it out there. And I was very,
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. It was very how can you not be though?
Speaker 1: It was so uncomfortable, especially especially if you didn't like
Speaker 1: mentally prepare for something like that. Oh, I like really
Speaker 1: was fighting it and then I was with the two
Speaker 1: guys that both have children with have daughters, and they
Speaker 1: were like, no, this is important to keep going, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I just feel really uncomfortable. But usually
Speaker 1: the songs that are the most uncomfortable and you just
Speaker 1: like really don't how artists, those are the hardest. But
Speaker 1: usually those are the ones that people in my past
Speaker 1: experience have responded to and been like, Okay, I really
Speaker 1: relate to that on like a deep level. So the
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and like painful and the tea sometimes good to
Speaker 1: put yourself, you know, in uncomfortable situations, like wow, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm slightly addicted to putting myself an uncomfortable situation.
Speaker 1: I'm like forcing myself to sometimes because like and it's
Speaker 1: just like getting myself like Okay, Smith, you can do this.
Speaker 1: You can do it. And it's also like the adrenaline,
Speaker 1: and adrenaline helps so much. It does well when you
Speaker 1: play live TV shows. Every time. I cannot imagine the
Speaker 1: adrenaline that comes from that. I get so scared and
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for ten years. Do you still
Speaker 1: get stage fright? Um? I get like massively terrified to
Speaker 1: the point of like for sure, crying before I take
Speaker 1: the stage. Ever, if it's a live TV performance, when
Speaker 1: I'm just playing shows, they're not televised, and I know
Speaker 1: it's just my fan and we're just write or die,
Speaker 1: and it's so fun and infectious. I don't get nervous.
Speaker 1: I get excited, like I'm going to a house party.
Speaker 1: So what is it about the live TV is because
Speaker 1: like so many people you know that don't necessarily know
Speaker 1: you are watching, or don't necessarily like me, or would
Speaker 1: like to find something to pick apart, or would like
Speaker 1: to find the one note that I miss because I
Speaker 1: don't lip sync, and things like that where I just
Speaker 1: don't want to be fucked if I can't hear myself
Speaker 1: and I hit one bad note, or if I'm dancing
Speaker 1: and I'm out of breath and it's just it's live, well,
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's life not That's what I think
Speaker 1: is so incredible about live performances is because it's not
Speaker 1: exactly how it is and you can see that everyone's
Speaker 1: just human, and I think people forget that. Well, it's
Speaker 1: also like you don't know if people want that because
Speaker 1: it's We're also used to the face tune and the
Speaker 1: auto tune and all of these things that are supposed
Speaker 1: to make us all quote unquote perfect. I don't believe
Speaker 1: in that can like that concept. I don't believe in
Speaker 1: perfection as an even the thing. I don't think it exists.
Speaker 1: But I don't think. But like we're all because what
Speaker 1: is perfect? It sounds really boring to me, but like,
Speaker 1: I just don't. I also think it's different for every person,
Speaker 1: and we're all fed that perfection is something that is
Speaker 1: almost unachievable and something that we're not. So it feeds
Speaker 1: this insecurity, especially in women, and I am just calling
Speaker 1: it bullshit. I'm thirty two years old over it, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to be perfect. I'm not ever going
Speaker 1: to be, so no one is in the fact that
Speaker 1: you're showing that will help others to realize that, oh,
Speaker 1: like being not perfect is cool and everything and everyone
Speaker 1: is perfect if you stop comparing. True. Something I wrote
Speaker 1: on my ceiling when I was in high school and
Speaker 1: it's still there at my mom's house. How do you
Speaker 1: write what your ceiling? I stood on my beds put
Speaker 1: posters up there and right on the ceiling. Nice, that's impressive,
Speaker 1: But you know there's a song there just from like
Speaker 1: your past music that I love, Good Old Days that
Speaker 1: you did with Mac That is such a beautiful song.
Speaker 1: And I think the lyrics and rainbow just about the rainbow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and just like the colors, Like colors are great, colors
Speaker 1: are great. I just put out makeup and it's really
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about that. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: send you a box of it if you want. It's
Speaker 1: very bright and yes, please, okay, cool, I'll send you
Speaker 1: a box. But I'm so excited about it because it's
Speaker 1: so bright and colorful, beauty, And I just wanted to
Speaker 1: make something that would make people happy, and I think
Speaker 1: colors make people happy. There's something about it. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. What do you think your favorite colors?
Speaker 1: Like if you had to only wear one color for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: could do that, Like if you had to, if I
Speaker 1: had to, is rainbow a color? I'm not, no, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it hard for you. It would be
Speaker 1: either a baby pink or turquoise, oh, or a puke
Speaker 1: green like a shart truth, So I can't pick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but light pink is so pretty. All those I've had
Speaker 1: my hair all those colors, so I was thinking about
Speaker 1: all my favorite hair colors. I love your hair color.
Speaker 1: Is talking about this earlier. I think it's so cool.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm still kind of getting used to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like when I look at myself in the mirror,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like an alien. Yeah, when you're
Speaker 1: used to seeing yourself fun way, But then I also
Speaker 1: like challenging it, Like I used to not wear a
Speaker 1: lot of color, and now I want to because it's
Speaker 1: almost just reconnecting with my child self, child self and
Speaker 1: my child heart is. I love color and I love glitter,
Speaker 1: and I don't care what I love glitter. I think
Speaker 1: it's like an innate animal instinct almost to like sparkly things.
Speaker 1: I know that I literally have unicorn socks and unicorn necklace.
Speaker 1: I love color and everything well, I love also unicorns,
Speaker 1: so incredible. I want to talk to you about Kesher's beauty.
Speaker 1: The colors in your palette are just it makes me
Speaker 1: happy looking at it good. That was my goal packing
Speaker 1: and the color is just the whole thing to feel
Speaker 1: like magical. So do you when you're creating a makeup line,
Speaker 1: how do you decide what you want it? To look like,
Speaker 1: because it looks very cohesive but also very um different.
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be unique. I wanted it to
Speaker 1: be something that if you had it out on your
Speaker 1: counter or in your purse, that if you pulled it out,
Speaker 1: people would be like, what is that? That's really cool?
Speaker 1: Especially the I palette. I wanted it's foil and velvet
Speaker 1: and stars and there's a tassel, and there's all these
Speaker 1: colors and summer day and summer night and summer whatever
Speaker 1: you want. And I just wanted to give people something
Speaker 1: really special because it's something that is it easy to apply,
Speaker 1: because it's hot, it's This is why it took me
Speaker 1: over a year to make this is because I love
Speaker 1: all the colors. So I was like, I want cold free, right,
Speaker 1: So it's cruelty free, not tested on animals, not made
Speaker 1: of any animals, super pigmented, which is hard to achieve
Speaker 1: when it's cruelty free and just has absolutely no harm
Speaker 1: done to any animals. Like working on a red that
Speaker 1: was really difficult. I can't imagine how hard it is
Speaker 1: to develop red. It's hard because it's usually made out
Speaker 1: of like smushed up beetles. That's usually what red is
Speaker 1: from you learned something every day. No smushed animals in
Speaker 1: my makeup, so yeah, and if you add water to
Speaker 1: the eyeshadows then they get even more pigmented, so you
Speaker 1: can just like play with it and it's for playing,
Speaker 1: it's for feeling. Oh, I want to try this, like
Speaker 1: happy and excited about life, and I like to do
Speaker 1: one eye one color sometimes and one eye the other color,
Speaker 1: and I'd just go full like yeah, why not exactly.
Speaker 1: I've just like, like I was telling you before, I've
Speaker 1: I'm not really into like beauty standards of what I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be. I would like to just do what
Speaker 1: makes me happy, and I think especially with my makeup,
Speaker 1: I would like for everybody else to do that, just
Speaker 1: do what makes me happy. Well, I feel like you
Speaker 1: just to sidetrack for a second. I feel like you
Speaker 1: have so many great memories and experiences just because you
Speaker 1: want to test things and try new things. What do
Speaker 1: you think the most memorable and or rebellious thing you
Speaker 1: did when you're a teen? Well, so my mom wasn't. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think it was. She wrote country music. So I
Speaker 1: was like, what is the polar opposite kind of music
Speaker 1: I could make? And it was like dancy, like it
Speaker 1: was emotional, but it was also like I don't call
Speaker 1: it rapping, I call it ship talking because I myself
Speaker 1: a rapper. But I was like, what would be like
Speaker 1: the polar opposite of what kind of music my mom writes?
Speaker 1: And so I kind of just went like full dance
Speaker 1: and was talking shit and like just went in a
Speaker 1: totally different direction. That's kind of how I found my
Speaker 1: sound initially was by accident. It was just me trying
Speaker 1: to rebel against what my mom would have wanted me
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, and it's funny because now I've come
Speaker 1: full circle and just but as a song with Sturgill
Speaker 1: Simpson and love country music. So hey, everything happens for
Speaker 1: a reason in that way, I think I like to
Speaker 1: believe it does, because if you don't believe that, and
Speaker 1: there are some days I don't, But I think it
Speaker 1: depends on the situation. Like I feel like, if the
Speaker 1: star is aligne, you know, then why not think it
Speaker 1: happens for a reason. It's kind of you can make
Speaker 1: that choice or not. And it feels nice to think
Speaker 1: something's watching out over you and everything's happening for a
Speaker 1: reason and there is karma all of those very hippie
Speaker 1: things I do. I do believe in because it makes
Speaker 1: me feel comforted. Yeah, And I mean I also know
Speaker 1: that it might not be real, but I like to
Speaker 1: believe it. I think I think it was you on
Speaker 1: the Zach Saying Show when I heard you say that
Speaker 1: you believe that, Well, you're talking about raising hell and
Speaker 1: you're talking about that you believe you can make heaven
Speaker 1: on earth. Can you talk more about that? Sure? I
Speaker 1: think that like our experience, how we behave to ourselves
Speaker 1: to other people, being honest, chasing our dreams, believing in ourselves,
Speaker 1: all of those things can contribute to leading a more
Speaker 1: positive or quote unquote heavenly experience. And I'm not so
Speaker 1: worried about being judged at the gates of heaven or hell.
Speaker 1: I'm more concerned with leading a really honest life and
Speaker 1: standing for something and being remembered for standing for something
Speaker 1: and being a good person and being on the right
Speaker 1: side of history. And I feel like that to me
Speaker 1: is living in your heaven, and living in your hell
Speaker 1: would be not following your heart and not following your truth.
Speaker 1: I love that is that how you want to be remembered,
Speaker 1: And like, that's what is that what you want your
Speaker 1: legacy to be weird. You're asking me that because I
Speaker 1: was up all night last night, I couldn't sleep because
Speaker 1: of the full moon, and I wrote a song called legacy.
Speaker 1: That's really bizarre. You asked me that that's so weird.
Speaker 1: But I was talking about how I don't really know
Speaker 1: what I want to be on my tombstone. I think
Speaker 1: it should just say like party on but of us, Yes,
Speaker 1: because I also just think we're here for a short time.
Speaker 1: I think we're we all should try to have the
Speaker 1: best time we possibly can. And there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of nihilism in that, which is you know it is
Speaker 1: what it is. You know you never know how long
Speaker 1: you're going to be here for, so live it to
Speaker 1: the fullest. And a lot of my songs are about that.
Speaker 1: I know. I think it's I just think it's so
Speaker 1: incredible and it makes me smile that you did a
Speaker 1: song with kes with Kesha with the dollar sign. Can
Speaker 1: you hear it? I love it. It's like, what made you?
Speaker 1: How do you come up with that idea to do
Speaker 1: a collaboration with your former your former self, your former reputation. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's just like me being self aware that
Speaker 1: at that time when I had the dollar sign and
Speaker 1: my name and people just have no idea what to
Speaker 1: do with me, and like really really had no idea,
Speaker 1: and so I wanted to be my current self, but
Speaker 1: featuring that part of me. And so what made you
Speaker 1: change from the dollar sign to the just a regular sum?
Speaker 1: Was there a mementire like today's the day I had
Speaker 1: like just a year of change and going through some
Speaker 1: really heavy stuff, and it was a lot thrown at
Speaker 1: me right in one year, and it just made me
Speaker 1: want to I wanted to respect myself as an artist
Speaker 1: more because I felt like I wasn't being seen for
Speaker 1: who I really am, and I think to be seen
Speaker 1: for who you really are, you have to present who
Speaker 1: you actually are. And a huge part of that was
Speaker 1: being more vulnerable and not always just being so self
Speaker 1: deprecating and taking the piss Like my Twitter handle used
Speaker 1: to be Cashia sucks because I thought I'll just beat
Speaker 1: people to the punchline. So but then I just I
Speaker 1: wanted to just feel like I was being nicer to
Speaker 1: myself and it's hard to do that. It was thought
Speaker 1: literally the hardest thing in the entire world. That's my
Speaker 1: biggest challenge. What do you say to someone who's like
Speaker 1: going through that needs to overcome to self love? Self
Speaker 1: love is such a hard thing because it's so easy
Speaker 1: to talk about, is really really hard to practice. I
Speaker 1: think giving myself a break is really really hard. And
Speaker 1: I mean, you seem like you're a very ambitious person yourself.
Speaker 1: It's really hard to be really ambitious and want to
Speaker 1: conquer the world in whatever field you're going for and
Speaker 1: then also take it easy on yourself. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you I'm very I'm very critical of myself. Me too,
Speaker 1: and I think that's part of what makes my work ethic.
Speaker 1: I love to work and I love to be so
Speaker 1: involved in everything because it's so cool creating something. It's
Speaker 1: the best, the best feeling. Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 1: This is the first thing I've ever created. And the
Speaker 1: fact that it's like, you know, I was working on
Speaker 1: it in my room and now it's like I'm talking
Speaker 1: to you, like man, like amazing. You should as you
Speaker 1: totally should. And I used to just feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm such a douche bag. If I ever say anything
Speaker 1: nice about myself, it's hard for me to do it.
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to make more of an effort to
Speaker 1: just be like I want me too. Every day, every
Speaker 1: day something I work on because I just never want
Speaker 1: to come off like I'm full of myself, are conceited,
Speaker 1: or you're bragging. You know, you just want to share
Speaker 1: your experience. I got you. But I also feel like, wow,
Speaker 1: I work, I work a lot to do this thing,
Speaker 1: and I should be able to say a nice thing
Speaker 1: about it without feeling like a douche bag. That's really
Speaker 1: hard for me. It's really hard to relax sometimes, like
Speaker 1: just especially just to take a breath, like live in
Speaker 1: the moment. It's one of the hardest things stay. But
Speaker 1: when you're in the moment, it's the best feeling. Well,
Speaker 1: like here, I might here with you. You know, we're
Speaker 1: like creating something that is part of your destiny and mine.
Speaker 1: So I feel really good about this time. But then
Speaker 1: if I were to go home and just like lay
Speaker 1: on the couch, I would be there for about two
Speaker 1: minutes and then I would feel really guilty and go
Speaker 1: upstairs and start like playing the piano. That's so interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's like the healthiest thing in
Speaker 1: the world, but I find it so interesting just I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with it creating. Yeah, it makes me feel like
Speaker 1: peaceful when I can create, it makes me feel useful
Speaker 1: and peaceful. And I don't know if it's like the
Speaker 1: healthiest thing, but for me in my life, I found
Speaker 1: it to be the most therapeutic thing when I create.
Speaker 1: What is your biggest goal as an artist? Is it
Speaker 1: to win Grammys? Is it to make a certain amount
Speaker 1: of albums? You know? What use to be things like
Speaker 1: of course, who doesn't want to grant me? You know?
Speaker 1: If you make music, of course that's like a dream.
Speaker 1: But I've tried to make it more um less dependent
Speaker 1: on external validation. So something like that you really have
Speaker 1: no control over. So I don't want to put my
Speaker 1: happiness in the hands of something I have zero control over.
Speaker 1: I'd rather make control of situation. Yeah, and just feel
Speaker 1: successful in creating a song like praying. That song is
Speaker 1: like a journey, and like a song, I feel you
Speaker 1: every time I sing it, I feel like you go
Speaker 1: through a story. I go through it every every single
Speaker 1: time I sing that song. But I've had so many
Speaker 1: people that have gone through very very different things that
Speaker 1: I've gone through and have just said they related to
Speaker 1: that song and that to me is the best feeling
Speaker 1: in the world. Knowing that you've connected with someone and
Speaker 1: I can't helped them in a way, I feel not alone.
Speaker 1: That to me is success. I hope that's what this does.
Speaker 1: And I'm just so happy and grateful that you know,
Speaker 1: you're on this week's episode, and it just means the
Speaker 1: world to me. Thank you, And I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you're seventeen, and that's so impressive that
Speaker 1: you're so you're just so in charge of your life
Speaker 1: and you're doing what you want to do, and I
Speaker 1: just think that's badass. It's really hard to just go
Speaker 1: after what you want and have the confidence to do
Speaker 1: it and really just do it, and you're doing it,
Speaker 1: and it's amazing and really inspiring. Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Well, thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: on this week's episode. Make sure you go listen to
Speaker 1: Kesha's new album High Road Amazing. Hope you guys like it. Bye,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited for you. I hope you guys enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode with Kesha. I had such an incredible time
Speaker 1: just getting to know her. Make sure you go listen
Speaker 1: to her new album High Road and follow her on
Speaker 1: her socials. Her instagram is I is who I Is.
Speaker 1: Make sure you follow my instagram which is It's Sammy
Speaker 1: j I T S S A M M Y j
Speaker 1: A y E. And also follow my podcast instagram, which
Speaker 1: is crazy to say, it's Sammy j Dot. Let's be
Speaker 1: real and you're gonna want to follow that because there
Speaker 1: are some pretty exciting giveaways coming and a lot of
Speaker 1: fun stuff. Um. I hope you guys enjoyed this week's
Speaker 1: episode by