1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: It's January twenty nineteen and John McAfee is at sea. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: He's fleeing the United States after hearing that he was 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: being investigated for tax evasion. He's with his partner Janus, 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: their dogs, and security guards, sailing his boat from Miami 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: to the Caribbean. The photojournalist Robert King is there too, 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: filming the whole thing. Through the course of the journey, 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: McAfee is seen drinking and smoking, and there are shots 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: of ziploc bags with what looked like synthetic drugs. For King, 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: documenting McAfee's travels was an exhausting assignment because there was 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, mind altering substances and alcohol, 11 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: and we were sleeping with guns, and you know, it 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: was nuts. McAfee, though, seems oddly at ease when he's 13 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: talking to King. Remember they go back to his days 14 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: in Belize when King was filming there for Vice. As 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: they make for the Dominican Republic, McAfee tells King, this 16 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: is the most important video he's ever made. I will 17 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: fabricate whatever reality I see fifth to keep eyeballs on us. Robert, 18 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: are we clearly do you have a problem with that. 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: I'm near the album. This is a clip from the 20 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: Netflix film Running with the Devil, The Wild World of 21 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: John McAfee. You can hear McAfee start to come upon. 22 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: If this one does not sell your fucking footage, nothing will, Robert, 23 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: nothing will. Do you understand I have created this story? 24 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: Do you understand? I have fabricated a perception that is 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: matchment reality, ran jury's indictments, foreign countries, guns, that Uni video. 26 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: So you tell me that this is not gold. It 27 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: is gold. I really take in this golf and like 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: fives check artis have woven it into the most magnificent 29 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: jewels you must see. So it's hard to say what 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: was real and what was theater? I mean, because he 31 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: was he wasn't he he did Shakespeare plays. I mean 32 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: he was extremely intelligent, well read. But I think a 33 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: lot of that is psychosis too. When they dock in 34 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: the Dominican Republic, everyone winds up in jail because their 35 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: boat is loaded with cash, actual bricks of gold, drugs, 36 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: and guns. McAfee did not want to get sent back 37 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: to the US and face the American justice system. They 38 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: all get deported. King is sent back to Tennessee. McAfee, 39 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: who was born in England uses his UK passport to 40 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: get him and janis transported to Europe. He will never 41 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: set foot in America again. You're listening to Foundering. I'm 42 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: your host, Jamie Tara Bay. In the final episode of 43 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: this season, we retrace the last days of John McAfee. 44 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: He's speaking at tech conferences and getting deeper and deeper 45 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: into the dark side of crypto, all the while he's 46 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: staggering across Europe. He's terrified of spending the rest of 47 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: his life in an American prison, and yet he cannot 48 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: resist the spotlight. He baits authorities with teasing tweets that 49 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: hide his location but show a continued, reckless defiance. He's 50 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: in his seventies, his paranoia is surging, his associates are fleeing, 51 00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: and he's left isolated, increasingly erratic and desperate. Success in 52 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: business brings a sort of currency, not just money. People 53 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: like McAfee, who started his own company, became a household name, 54 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: and helped create an industry. There's a cultural currency that 55 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: comes with that too, a cybersecurity legend. John McAfee pioneered 56 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: the anti virus industry full stop. John was a super 57 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: genius man. He really does me yeah, our introduction, mister 58 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: John Jobs Gates Bazos. We practically worship these figures. For 59 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: a fleeting period in the late nineteen eighties and nineties, 60 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: McAfee belonged to this club. He understood the power of 61 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: this currency, and he used it to an extreme that 62 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: none of his peers did. He weaponized it the money 63 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: and celebrity he accrued the enablers he surrounded himself with. 64 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: McAfee often used these to benefit himself and to do 65 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: harm up until the very end, and in those final days, 66 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: there was very little left of the life McAfee once lived, 67 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: except for one thing, his daughter Jen. McAfee had Jen 68 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: with his first wife, Fran. We heard from Fran at 69 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: the beginning of this season. She was the eighteen year 70 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: old student in the math class McAfee was teaching in Louisiana. 71 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: It was like living on the largest roller coaster in 72 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: the world. So she had these tremendous highs, but then 73 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: you bottom down and that was life. McAfee had a 74 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: tumultuous relationship ship with his daughter too. Jen has rarely 75 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: spoken in public, preferring to keep as much of her 76 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: life private as possible. She declined to be interviewed, but 77 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: her lawyer spoke on her behalf. Jen's had a lifetime 78 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: to watch her father put his foibles and idiosyncrasies on 79 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: display for the world to see, but they had moments 80 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: of intense love where he exhibited his devotion to her. 81 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: One example we found in our reporting is that during 82 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: Jen's teenage meltdowns at home with her mother, she would 83 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: ask for her dad. McAfee would fly often across the 84 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: country within twenty four hours to be with her. There 85 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: were other moments too. Here's Jen's lawyer, Joy Athanasiu. Jen 86 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: and Joy have been friends since childhood. We had gone 87 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: a visit and she was pregnant. His home in Woodland, 88 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: her Colorado was very mountainous, with some cabins throughout the property, 89 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: but it was a considerable hike to get to these cabins, 90 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: and there was a point where she needed to slow 91 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: down because, if I remember correctly, she was quite pregnant 92 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: at that point. And he was really really attentive to 93 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 1: her needs and really protective of her, but he could 94 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: also be incredibly spiteful. The ups and downs in their 95 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: relationship prompted him to rant to various people that children 96 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: were the worst and no one should ever have them. 97 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: Jen is the only known child of McAfee, although he 98 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: once tweeted that he'd fathered forty seven children. We learned 99 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: he posted that after he and jan had had a 100 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: particularly bad phone call. McAfee had a lot of complicated relationships. 101 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: He alienated a lot of people, and by twenty nineteen 102 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: it was just McAfee and his partner Janus. The couple 103 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: arrived in London in late July after being deported from 104 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: the Caribbean. McAfee kept up a steady presence on Twitter, 105 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: making claims about his whereabouts that were almost certainly fabrications, 106 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: but by October he'd made his way to Spain. Here 107 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: he is giving a speech on stage at a blockchain 108 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: conference in Barcelona. Governments are just now starting to see 109 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: the blockchain and cryptocurrency as an opportunity or a threat 110 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: or something to fear. We asked Janus when they had 111 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: come to Spain and why, and we were surprised that 112 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: she was Heiji. Okay, so I can't really say when 113 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: we arrived in Spain. The friends that were assisting Johnny, 114 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: you know, those were John's friends, and there was an 115 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: expectation of privacy that I want to be sure I'm respecting. 116 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: She told us she was worried for her safety. She 117 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: thought she'd been followed while shopping, and she didn't know 118 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: who to trust. It was McAfee's relentless tweeting over the 119 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: ensuing months that ultimately revealed his movements. Images he posted 120 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: from his daily life caught the attention of at least 121 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: one amateur sleuth, who goes by the name Senor Bigottis 122 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: Catalan for mister Mustache. Here's our contributing reporter, Matthew Bremner. 123 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: So we got a tip from Senor Bigottis and he 124 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: told us to go to a tattoo parlor where we 125 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: know McAfee visited a couple of times. It's called Scorpio Tattoo. 126 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: It's in the center of Gambrills, and we spoke to 127 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:06,359 Speaker 1: the owner, Santiago Quebas. Cambriel's is a tiny beach community 128 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 1: on Catalonia's Golden Coast, south of the Rocky Parades Mountains 129 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: and ninety minutes from Barcelona by car. The population is 130 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: just thirty thousand people. Santiago says McAfee came to his 131 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: shop in late twenty nineteen. He knew exactly what he wanted. 132 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: I was struck by it because I said, what is 133 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: this you want? He said, well, look, this is like 134 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: a word, a symbol of mine to know that I 135 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: am alive. The tattoo that McAfee wanted was the word whacked. 136 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: That tattoo became famous, a totem for McAfee's followers to brandish, 137 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: alongside conspiracies that he'd been a wanted man who wouldn't 138 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: go quietly. He was convinced that powerful people wanted to 139 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: kill him, and he advertised it on Twitter to make 140 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: sure everyone knew. Santiago didn't know any of this at 141 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: the time. He didn't even know what the word whacked meant, 142 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: but McAfee left an impression on him. They chatted a 143 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: lot over the hour and a half McAfee was in 144 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: his chair. I thought he was quite a funny person, ugly, 145 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: very nice. At the time. I didn't know who he 146 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: was until I got a call from a newspaper in 147 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: Tarragona and they told me. By the next year, things 148 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: changed sharply from McAfee and his quiet existence in Spain. 149 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty begins with the rapid spread of the coronavirus, 150 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: sending the world into crisis. Spain is among the hardest hit. 151 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: In the beginning, the country is forced into an extraordinary lockdown. 152 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: The Twitter sleuth Senor Bigottis notices that McAfee's showcasing he's 153 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: defiance of those restrictions in his tweets at the beginning. 154 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: He was in Tarragona, I think, and he was the 155 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: few people that he was outside in the in the street. 156 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: I thought, this guy is gonna have problems. Here's our reporter, Matthew. 157 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: Spain has one of the strictest lockdowns in the world. 158 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: Military on the streets, police are everywhere. And it's at 159 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: this time that Senor Bigottis finds himself really tracking the 160 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: whereabouts of John McAfee quite closely. Something to know about 161 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: Senor Bigottis is he's just a guy who's bored online. 162 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: He's locked in COVID quarantine like everyone else, and this 163 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: is a way to pass the time. And in case 164 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: you were wondering, mister mustache does have a mustache. It 165 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: was funny for me because just in the beginning he 166 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: has a picture peeking in the parking of McDonald's. If 167 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: he didn't catch that he says, he finds a picture 168 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,479 Speaker 1: of McAfee peeing in the parking lot of a McDonald's 169 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: and this is where he starts noticing very familiar things, 170 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: things very close to home. On McAfee's Twitter feet he 171 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: published a video near the beach, I could see a park, 172 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: a child park. That's it's here. In Gambriel's he realizes 173 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: that McAfee is in his hometown. I see some pictures 174 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: and identify that he was in this National road National 175 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: three hundred and forty. About a mile outside of town, 176 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: just off a busy main road, is an abandoned hotel 177 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: called Daurada Park. This is where Senor Begottis believes McAfee 178 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: was staying. In early twenty twenty, Matthew visited the hotel. 179 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: So the roof of the main entrance there is falling down. 180 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: There's a big chunk out of it, as if someone 181 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: had taken like a bite out of it. However, there 182 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 1: is a security camera there. The hotel hasn't been operating 183 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: in any official capacity since twenty seventeen. UM. There are 184 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: no tourists here, that's for sure. On those balconies there 185 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: is evidence that people are living there, So there are tables, 186 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: their plants, their mosquito nets. In twenty eighteen, about a 187 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: year after receiving its last guest, the police raided the hotel. 188 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: Here's Rebecca Carunco, a crime reporter for the newspaper L 189 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: Bays who covered McAfee's time in Spain. So beens that 190 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: want people. The local authorities thought there was some sort 191 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: of illegal activity going on there, related to a brothel 192 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: or something like that, but then they raid the place 193 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: and find out it's a crypto mine. Of course, a 194 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency mine in itself is not an illegal thing. It's 195 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: just that some people who have cryptocurrency farms are often 196 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: illegally tapping the electric supply. Matthew says it's an unusual 197 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: place to have a crypto mine, mainly because the energy 198 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: bills are high there, and well it's just really hot 199 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: and supercomputer as well. They need to be kept cool. 200 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: So it would be much more likely to find a 201 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: crypto mine in a place like Alaska or Canada, and 202 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: not on Spain's Mediterranean coast. Authorities found nothing illegal happening 203 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: with the operation. No one was arrested, no assets were seized, 204 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: the crypto mine was left intact. It flew under the 205 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: radar until McAfee started uploading photos and videos in early 206 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Senior Bigotis talks to us about one video 207 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: in particular, which shows acafee at a bar with Janis 208 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: talking to two Russians or Russian speakers, and they're teaching 209 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: him and Janis how to speak Russian. I would like 210 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: to introduce Janis and our Russian coaches, job Smith America. 211 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of speculation about this connection between 212 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: McAfee and Russians in both the Spanish and international press 213 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: of late For example, the Daily Mail called the hotel 214 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: at the Park a ghost hotel which is owned by 215 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: an unnamed Russian businessman. It all sounds very vague, and 216 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: these shady references to Russians, I mean, it sounds a 217 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: bit like a bad nineteen eighties Hollywood action film. But 218 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean that's where we are at the moment. No 219 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: one who was close to McAfee at the time would 220 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: tell us much about his associates, but Janus says their 221 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: collaboration dated back to at least twenty eighteen. Janus also 222 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: confirmed that she and McAfee had spent time at the 223 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: Dawdada Park Hotel. We weren't able to get ahold of 224 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: McAfee's associates in Spain. McAfee seemed to enjoy cultivating this 225 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: air of mystery around them. The idea that they were 226 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: powerful people with important connections in Russia appears to have 227 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: been concocted by McAfee himself. From what we could gather, 228 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: it seemed to be just another group of people trying 229 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: to squeeze money for themselves out of crypto desperate enough 230 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: or maybe savvy enough to hitch their wagon to McAfee. 231 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: The crypto operation gives gafee enough cash to continue traveling. 232 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: In the summer of twenty twenty, he's railing publicly about 233 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: the loss of personal freedom the pandemic has caused, and 234 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: he was making a joke of the health crisis on Twitter. 235 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: I just put on my Twitter account a few hours ago. 236 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: I'm auctioning off my COVID nineteen masks, which all made 237 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: from women's underwear, all right, and Janis first of all 238 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: wears them to stretch them and soften them. And the 239 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: charges from the US against McAfee are still not public, 240 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: but the net is tightening. He receives a notice from 241 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: Google saying the IRS is asking for information about his account. 242 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: Janis gets a similar message, and yet McAfee can't stop tweeting, 243 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: discussing American foreign policy, talking about all the girlfriends who 244 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: tried to kill him. And then on October third, a Saturday, 245 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: McAfee is at the airport in Barcelona. He's about to 246 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: board a flight to Istanbul, but his passport gets flagged 247 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: and police take him into custody. Here's a report from Reuters. 248 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: US federal prosecutors unsealed an indictment against McAfee overcharges that 249 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: he evaded taxes and wipefully failed to file returns for decades. 250 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: He'd done everything possible to avoid accountability, dodging process servers, 251 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: faking a heart attack, and sailing to the Caribbean to 252 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: evade American authorities. There was no escape from this. Here's 253 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: Rebecca the Lpius reporter. When he is arrested, it's a 254 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: local judge from Catalonia who looks at what evidence there 255 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: is and whether they put him in prison or not. Imprision, 256 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: the judge decides that McAfee is a flight risk and 257 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: should be locked up. Almost three weeks after his arrest, 258 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: Janice posts an audio recording McAfee made from prison. She 259 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: now has control over his Twitter account and posts updates 260 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: on his behalf. I love you all and I miss 261 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: being able to share videos and photos with you. It 262 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: is impossible for America to extradite me. I do believe this. 263 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: The documentation they have discovered about me, they simply pulls 264 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: out of their ass And the Spanish people on Spanish 265 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: courts are not stupid. So I do not work. I 266 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: may even get out on bail in a week or two, 267 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: and if not, I will eventually be The intention here 268 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: might be to reassure his fans that he'll be released, 269 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: but to me, it sounds more like he's trying to 270 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: convince himself. He's slower, hesitant, even pensive. He almost sounds defeated. 271 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. John McAfee was facing a tough 272 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: legal fight using money he apparently obtained through his crypto work. 273 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: He hired several attorneys to argue his case. There was 274 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: Niche Sannon. My name is Niche Santon. I'm a federal 275 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney in Chicago. I have an office in 276 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: New York. I also work on international tradition matters and 277 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: practiced federal criminal trial work around the country. On the 278 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: crypto side, there was Andrew Gordon. My name is Andrew Gordon. 279 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm the managing attorney and president at Gordon Law in Chicago, 280 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: and we are a corporate tax and cryptocurrency law firm. 281 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: McAfee had another two attorneys in Spain on various fronts. 282 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: They were fighting the DJ and SEC charges and the 283 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: extradition request. Andrew spoke to McAfee regularly about the case. 284 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: I asked him how McAfee sounded when they spoke, Very 285 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: positive spirits, very upbeat. Now, certainly prison is no favorable 286 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: place to be in, but he would always talk about 287 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: how popular he was in the prison and how respected 288 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: as the old man in the prison and really is 289 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: trying to make the best of it. McAfee would spend 290 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: his last eight and a half months in Brand's to prison. 291 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: The prison is forty five minutes outside of Barcelona. It's 292 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: near the town of Martorel. So Matthew went to visit 293 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: the site in the spring of twenty twenty two. The 294 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: prison itself is this kind of nineteen seventies concrete monstrosity, 295 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: and in the background you can sort of see the 296 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: big wire fences which are about I don't know, three 297 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: to four meters tall. And then there are these green 298 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: roofed warehouses, which I assume are the cellbox where mac 299 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: if you, probably spent a lot of his time. Matthew 300 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: is there with Founderings executive producer Sean when they walk 301 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: deeper inside the complex, beyond several checkpoints and the first 302 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: bend in the road, but it starts to get quiet. 303 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: There is no one around, only what looks like the 304 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: prisoners entrance up ahead. But then the police car pulls up, 305 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: so this is the police tell Matthew and Sean to 306 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: leave the kick that they returned to the main entrance. 307 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: In the hallway, they made a prison worker who says 308 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: she knew McAfee. Do you remember if he had a 309 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: lot of visitors. I can't give you this information, it's confidential, 310 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 1: but I will only say he was a nice man 311 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: to deal with. McAfee was very active on Twitter throughout 312 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: his time in prison, describing the food and fellow inmates. 313 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: But over time McAfee's mood changed, and this too was 314 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: reflected in his tweets. Titles a tweet Notes from Prison, 315 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: and he says, my body's confined. My mind has always 316 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: been confined by fears, longings, ambitions, escapes from boredom, A 317 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: prisoner of my own desires, circum stands move me from 318 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: one prison to the other. There's little difference. His words 319 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: are revealing because in a way, it's McAfee being honest 320 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: in public for one of the first times in his life. 321 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: He was struggling mentally, emotionally, and physically. McAfee and his 322 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: lawyers argue in an extradition hearing that he's old and 323 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: weak with a chronic lung condition. They say even a 324 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: few years in jail could be a death sentence. If 325 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: I am extraditement to the US, please translate it, I 326 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: will certainly spend the rest of my life in prison 327 00:25:52,000 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: conversed according to jail, all these things into consideration. Thank you. 328 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: McAfee's lost weight. His hair is dark and pulled back 329 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: from his face. He's hunched over. We were told that 330 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: when McAfee's daughter watched this video from the hearing, she 331 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: said he didn't even look like himself. A week later, 332 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: the Spanish court decided to grant the US government's extradition request. 333 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: Janner spoke to McAfee on the morning of June twenty third, 334 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: he just returned from court. Our conversation was not There 335 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: was nothing different in his voice. There was no change 336 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: of his attitude. There was no He didn't sound down 337 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: or depressed or anything. He actually was like, okay, so 338 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: what's the attorney's working on. You know, I understand that 339 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: we got this appeal and he was wanting to know, Okay, 340 00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: what's on the next steps that we're going to do, 341 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: so you know, we can move forward in five days. 342 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: Breaking news on your Wednesday afternoon. John McAfee, the creator 343 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: of the McAfee anti virus software, has been found dead 344 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: in his jail cell in Spain. Seventy five year old 345 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: was arrested last October at the International Airport in Barstow. 346 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: It's been a challenge trying to ascertain exactly what happened. 347 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: In the early evening of June twenty third. Inside McAfee's cell, 348 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: Janice told us that she'd been given a report on 349 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: the investigation into the events of that day, but she 350 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't show it to us. Neither the police nor the 351 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: court would say anything about the case, citing strict privacy 352 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: laws in Spain. We know though, that at six pm 353 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: When guards opened the door to McAfee's cell, they found 354 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: him hanging from something attached to the window. John McAfee, 355 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: the cybersecurity pioneer, the accused murderer and fraudster about to 356 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: be extradited to face the American justice system, is dead 357 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: at the age of seventy five. But Rebecca, the crime reporter, 358 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: said Catalonia officials issued a press release announcing his death 359 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: in prison. So I start calling police officers that I 360 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: know who have ties to the area where this happened. 361 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: Her contacts tell her that they believe McAfee was left 362 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: alone in his cell for a couple of hours and 363 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: that's when he killed himself. From the beginning, the police 364 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: tell me that there might be a suicide note. A 365 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: prison officer reports finding what appeared to be a suicide 366 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: note in McAfee's pocket. It reads, I am a phantom parasite. 367 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: I want to control my future, which does not exist. 368 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: Janis shared this note on Twitter. We asked several people 369 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: close to McAfee, who told us that the handwriting and 370 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: the style are definitely his. The coroner rules his death 371 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 1: a suicide. The case goes to a local court for review. 372 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: The judge said, Okay, with everything I have, I have 373 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: no indication that there is anything strange about this suicide. 374 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: Rebecca says. In Spain, all violent deaths, including suicides, are investigated. 375 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: The Spanish penal code considers suicide as a form of 376 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: violent death. Why well, because you kill yourself. Andrew Gordon, 377 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: McAfee's lawyer in Chicago found out when a reporter called 378 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: his office with the news. She called me and said, 379 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: asking for a comment on John's death. This is just bullshit. 380 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: That's just you know, someone pulling her leg to get lost. Um. 381 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: Then we got the second call, and then I started 382 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: searching on the internet, and then I reached out to Janis, 383 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,959 Speaker 1: and Janis at that time was going through the literal 384 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: same experience where she was finding out on the news 385 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: in Barcelona. Janus struggled with the bureaucracy. She didn't understand 386 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: why she couldn't see the body right away. When the 387 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: Spanish authorities eventually grunted her access, she only saw McAfee 388 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: from behind a window. It's likely Janus was kept in 389 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: a different room because of COVID restrictions, but it just 390 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: compounded her perception that Spanish authorities were involved in a 391 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: cover up, and I think it's very telling that here 392 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: I am a year later and I still can't get 393 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: his body. Remember, Janis told us that she had been 394 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: given a report on the investigation into the events of 395 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: that day, but again she wouldn't show it to us. 396 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: Janas says there was a brief discrepancy in the description 397 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: of the noose. At first the police said he used 398 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: a shoe string, and then later called it a rope. 399 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: This could easily be explained by a clerical error, but 400 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: Jana seized on it as yet another clue of something suspicious. Honestly, 401 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: I think from the very beginning I didn't believe it, 402 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: and so these things were just confirmation. Janice is determined 403 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: to get her own independent autopsy report to prove that 404 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: McAfee didn't take his own life. She's latched onto the 405 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: theory that he was murdered. She believes someone drugged and 406 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: strangled him. And it's hard to I don't know, it's 407 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: just hard to move forward. It's hard to think about 408 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: anything else because I just want to have these answers. 409 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: I just want, you know, I just want't be done 410 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: with this part. Court delays and the lack of information 411 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: have fueled the perception that the Spanish authorities have something 412 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: to hide. The Internet is awash with conspiracy theories. The 413 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: circumstances played perfectly to McAfee's fan base. He'd been saying 414 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: for years he was wanted, that people were out to 415 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: get him. He got it tattooed on his arm. He 416 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: said he'd never kill himself, that if he was found 417 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: hanging like Jeffrey Epstein, it could only be a hit job. 418 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: The absence of any kind of resolution has even one 419 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: of McAfee's lawyers believing it wasn't a suicide. I think 420 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: you blamed either cover uprespacidity. That's niche Sannon again. I 421 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: mean there's two extremes in it, and I just can't 422 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: believe a government is that stupid. So it's got to 423 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: be a cover up. I mean, what else is there? 424 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: What else has left? The timing of it is suspicious, 425 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: the way it supposedly happened is suspicious. And for him 426 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: to say it's going to happen, none of this adds up. 427 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: It wasn't John's personality to do something like this. But 428 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: Rebecca has covered the Spanish police for years and has 429 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: at times written critically of their methods, But she says 430 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: a cover up is unlikely and that the real issue 431 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: is their policy of silence on open cases. In the 432 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: absence of information, she says, conspiracy theories can flourish. Look 433 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: my newspaper reacted by saying, this is a story of 434 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: global international interest. We have to cover it. But there 435 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: was none of that interest on the part of authorities. 436 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: They didn't call a press conference where they made it 437 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: super clear what had happened. They weren't transparent. Now everyone 438 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: is wondering what happened to him? So why is the 439 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: state being so tight lipped? But Rebecca thinks it has 440 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: something to do with embarrassment. And when a person who 441 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: is in custody, who is in the custody of the administration, 442 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: ends up committing suicide, there is negligence of some kind. 443 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: You do have to do some kind of critical reflection 444 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: on that. Some six months after his death, prosecutors in 445 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: both New York and Tennessee applied to have their cases 446 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: against McAfee dismissed. Meanwhile, McAfee's body remains in a morgue 447 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: in Barcelona. McAfee's Spanish lawyer, Javier Villalba, says that Janus 448 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: is appealing the judges ruling of suicide to a higher 449 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: court and they're waiting to hear whether the case would 450 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: be accepted, he told us in a WhatsApp message. From 451 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: our point of view, the autopsy report from the government 452 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: is incomplete. This is why it's taking so long to 453 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: repatriate the body, because as long as this case is open, 454 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: McAfee's remains can't go anywhere. We'll be right back. While 455 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: McAfee's body is stuck in limbo, his family is left 456 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: in another kind of purgatory. Janus's legal appeals prevent the 457 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: people who were close to McAfee from being able to 458 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: bury him, and his money has apparently vanished. In conversations 459 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: with Janus and the attorneys were told McAfee did not 460 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: leave an estate. That's what he said to me. He 461 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: didn't have a will when whatever crypto he had that 462 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: was his crypto, So I don't know what would have 463 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: happened to that or wallets. I don't you know. Obviously 464 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: I had access to his phone, but that information wasn't there, 465 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: so wherever that was, I don't know. Remember, McAfee has 466 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: two multimillion dollar lawsuits against him that are outstanding the 467 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: aerotrekking wrongful death, and the killing of his neighbor. In 468 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: belize any money left in an estate would likely go 469 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: to pay those judgments. His lawyer said, we know McAfee 470 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: made a habit of buying assets and putting them in 471 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: other people's names. It was one of the things noted 472 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: in the indictment for tax evasion. We heard that he 473 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: rarely had money on hand, something Janus confirmed. Were you 474 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: that John didn't have any money at the end, he 475 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: didn't have he was cash poor. Yeah, you know, when 476 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: I was the one here with him, I was the 477 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: one that when his money ran out, I used my money, 478 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, my money which was separate from his, you know, 479 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: to pay for lawyers right, to make sure he had 480 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: money on his books and he had what he needed. 481 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: And yet Janice also told us that McAfee had taken 482 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: care of her financially. She described her situation as comfortable. 483 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: McAfee's daughter, Jen has said that she has no interest 484 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: in his money or in pushing for an investigation. She would, however, 485 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: like to put an end to a newer conspiracy that 486 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: McAfee faked his own death. Jen's being deluged by people 487 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: telling her that McAfee has been spotted in Texas. There's 488 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: one really effective way to shut this noise down, says 489 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: her lawyer Joy. The only thing that she would like 490 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: is she would like his remains to be released. She 491 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: is a person of faith. It has been very, very 492 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: difficult for her to think about his being kept by 493 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: the Spanish government and not being allowed to have him 494 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: laid at rest, and she wants to do everything possible 495 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: to prevent any further delay. She does not contest the 496 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: findings of the court that he died by suicide. Jen 497 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: knew her father longer than just about anybody, longer than 498 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: his team of lawyers, certainly longer than his Twitter fans 499 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: who propelled the conspiracies about his death. Jen knew who 500 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: he was, and she witnessed, both in public and in private, 501 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: his self destruction. There were times in the last few 502 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: years where they had conversations and it was apparent that 503 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: he was not sober, and of course he could be 504 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: very dismissive, and you know, that's that's that's an effect 505 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: of drinking and of addiction. Sadly, at the beginning of 506 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: this season, I mentioned that when McAfee tells the story 507 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: of his life. He always starts it in the same 508 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: way he talks about his father, a violent alcoholic. Nobody 509 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,720 Speaker 1: has an ideal life, even children. Dad. When you're fifteen fifteen, 510 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: they have shot himself. He shot himself. Yeah. People always 511 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: looked at the beast to explain the present. It doesn't 512 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: work that way. McAfee set out to defy the example 513 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: his father set for him, but in the end, he's 514 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 1: drinking and substance abuse, his volatile temper, the strained relationship 515 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: with his daughter all seemed to point to the same destination. 516 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: It also fits that a man who escaped accountability at 517 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,439 Speaker 1: every turn in his life was caught like others who 518 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: thought they were above the law, by something as simple 519 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: as not paying your taxes. And maybe the prospect of 520 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: being forced to do something he'd bragged he would never 521 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: do was something that his arrogance couldn't tolerate. I always 522 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: wanted to know who his lifelong friends were, the people 523 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: who'd stayed with him through it all. I was told 524 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 1: he didn't have any Most of the ones who stuck 525 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: around were there because they benefited from him. I heard 526 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: he would discard people when they no longer were useful 527 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: to him. Nearly everyone we spoke to said that felt 528 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: manipulated by him, conned by him, betrayed by him. That 529 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: he was the ultimate hype man who could sell anyone anything. 530 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: The final con was a promise he'd made publicly that 531 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: a flood of embarrassing and dangerous information would be released 532 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: upon his death, a so called dead man's switch. It's 533 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: what the conspiracists have been waiting so long for, but 534 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: no data trove or secret files ever emerged. It did, however, 535 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: succeed in keeping the McAfee name alive a little longer 536 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: even after his death, lingering there like that little shield 537 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: in the bottom corner of the computer screen. This season 538 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,959 Speaker 1: of Foundering was hosted by me Jamie Tarabay Sean When 539 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: Is Our executive producer. Matthew Bramner contributed reporting to this episode. 540 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Young Young Gilda Di Carli and Catherine 541 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 1: Fink for help with production, and to Jakie Dablos, Nick Turner, 542 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: and Lucy Papa Christu. Molly Nugent is our associate producer. 543 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: Sure if Usurf is our audio engineer and editorial assistant. 544 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: Mark Million oversaw production of this episode and edited the 545 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: story along with Andy Martin, Anne Vandermay, and Molly Shitz. 546 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: This is the end of the John McAfee story. If 547 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: you liked our show, leave a review. Most importantly, tell 548 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: your friends and keep us in your feed. We'll be 549 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: back with more Foundering See you next time.