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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be

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Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, nine year old Christina

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Speaker 2: Pipkin had lunch with her mother, Freda, at her home

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Speaker 2: in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. Christina was just a month away

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Speaker 2: from her tenth birthday. Hickory Ridge is a small farming

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Speaker 2: community in East ark Kansaw down Highway forty nine, about

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Speaker 2: eighty miles west of Memphis, Tennessee. Back then, it had

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Speaker 2: a population of just over four hundred people. Today it's

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Speaker 2: between two and three hundred people. But you get the idea.

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Speaker 2: This is not a major metropolis. You have to remember

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Speaker 2: this was a time when kids would roam around after school.

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Speaker 2: That was a lot more common than it is today.

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Speaker 2: They would ride bikes and play in the woods, and

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Speaker 2: of course this was also a time before cell phones.

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Speaker 2: Christina Pipkin had a mission that day. She wanted to

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Speaker 2: walk door to door to sell costume jewelry for her

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Speaker 2: school fundraiser. She had her leaflet with the jewelry listings

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Speaker 2: on it and was carrying a pencil so that people

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Speaker 2: could mark down what they wanted to order. Christina asked

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Speaker 2: her dad, James, if she could go around to neighbors houses,

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Speaker 2: and at first he said no, but Christina asked again

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Speaker 2: and he relented. But her father gave her strict instructions

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Speaker 2: stay on your side of the railroad tracks and be

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Speaker 2: home by dark. But Christina didn't make it back home

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Speaker 2: before dark. On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, sunset and

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Speaker 2: Hickory Ridge, Arkansas, happened at around seven fifty six pm.

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Speaker 2: Christina's parents, James and Frieda, reported her missing to the

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Speaker 2: Cross County Sheriff's department at eight fifty three pm. Soon

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Speaker 2: everyone was looking for her. Over two hundred volunteers were

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Speaker 2: searching the entire area. They covered a fifteen mile radius.

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Speaker 2: They were calling friends and knocking on doors going to

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Speaker 2: nearby houses, but there was no sign of Christina anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Christina's description went out Christina Pipkin, age nine, four foot nine,

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Speaker 2: weight eighty pounds. She was wearing a white desert storm

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Speaker 2: T shirt with Kuwait on the front and closed toe

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Speaker 2: white sandals. Three days later, on May seventh, nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 2: a father and son who lived a few miles away

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Speaker 2: right across the Jackson County line, were walking through their

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Speaker 2: rice fields. There had been some flooding recently, so they

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Speaker 2: were looking around on their property to check the water levels.

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Speaker 2: They lived near a large canal called cow Lake Ditch.

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Speaker 2: After the flooding, the water levels were much higher than normal.

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Speaker 2: Police later said the levels were up to around nine

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Speaker 2: feet that day, and as they were walking over the

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Speaker 2: bridge that crossed Highway forty two, the seven year old

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Speaker 2: son saw something in the water. He said, Dad, isn't

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Speaker 2: that the girl that's missing. They had found the body

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Speaker 2: of Christina Pipkin. I'm Catherine Townsend. If you have a

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Speaker 2: case you'd like me and my team to look into,

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Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone

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Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six'

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Speaker 2: one four. Five this Is Helen Gone Murder. LINE a

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Speaker 2: few weeks, ago a woman Named Amy tubbs reached out to.

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Speaker 2: Me she had been investigating The Christina pipkin case for,

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Speaker 2: years ever since she learned that her father in, Law Robbie, Tubbs.

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Speaker 2: Sr had been a suspect in that.

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Speaker 3: Case So i'm Married Robbie Tubbs, senior his son who

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Speaker 3: shares the same, name except there's a junior behind. It

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Speaker 3: so we started dating in twenty, fourteen and on one

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Speaker 3: of our first, dates my mom called me really freaked

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Speaker 3: out and she, said oh my, gosh are you with?

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Speaker 3: Him you need to get your stuff and leave right.

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Speaker 3: Now and what are you talking? About and her and

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Speaker 3: my aunt had googled his name obviously and found you,

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Speaker 3: know the various articles linking him To christina and NOT

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Speaker 3: i guess thought about the dates and how you know

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Speaker 3: he was the child himself would not, happen and so

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Speaker 3: he was, like, well this is not HOW i wanted

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Speaker 3: to tell you about, that but here we.

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Speaker 2: Go amy said that she's always had an interest in true.

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Speaker 2: Crime she wanted to know the truth about what. Happened

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Speaker 2: so she did a deep dive into the, case and

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Speaker 2: the more she, learned the more questions she.

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Speaker 3: Had so WHEN i started looking into the case and

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Speaker 3: just kind of googling, IT i couldn't believe that there

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Speaker 3: was so little evidence that they used against him and

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Speaker 3: that they were seeking the death.

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Speaker 2: Penalty christina's body was found in Cow Lake. Ditch she

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Speaker 2: was face down and her head was caught in a tree,

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Speaker 2: Branch so even though the current was really strong and

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Speaker 2: the water levels were, High christina was wedged in, there.

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Speaker 2: Trapped the police recovered the body and sent it for.

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Speaker 2: Testing they later revealed That christina's body had no sign

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Speaker 2: of injuries on it and that she was fully. Clothed

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Speaker 2: christina's family members said early on that she couldn't. Swim

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Speaker 2: but even though the police said they found no obvious

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Speaker 2: signs of molestation On christina's, Body Dale, arnold the state police,

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Speaker 2: investigator said very early on police suspected foul. Play they

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Speaker 2: did not believe That christina had gotten to Cow Lake

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Speaker 2: ditch on her. Own Cross County Sheriff Ronnie hughey said,

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Speaker 2: quote there were no marks on, her no, scratches no,

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Speaker 2: trauma nothing BUT i think it's foul. Play somebody caused

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Speaker 2: that child to be in that ditchway out there end.

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Speaker 2: Quote but if there was no, obvious visible sign of,

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Speaker 2: assault why are they so certain that this involved foul.

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Speaker 3: Play nobody in that town will talk to. ME i

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Speaker 3: don't know if it's because my Name's. TUBS i mean

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Speaker 3: there's a strong. Chance but about that state police had

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Speaker 3: everything locked down and started acting real fishy WHEN i

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Speaker 3: started asking. QUESTIONS i guess the reason why they suspect

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Speaker 3: foul play was two. Things, one it was about three

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Speaker 3: miles from her house and they don't feel like she

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Speaker 3: would have gone that. Far and she had on white

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Speaker 3: closed toad sandals the last time anyone, saw and they

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Speaker 3: never faiund those.

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Speaker 2: Sandals amy has done a lot of work over the.

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Speaker 2: Years she's submitted multiple foyer, Requests she's contacted people and

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Speaker 2: mapped out, locations and as she, mentioned she said That

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Speaker 2: christina's body was found around three miles away from her,

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Speaker 2: home but some newspaper reports say the distance between Where

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Speaker 2: christina was last seen and the ditch where she was

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Speaker 2: eventually found was around four. Miles others estimate the distances

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Speaker 2: closer to five. Miles and it's confusing because WHEN i

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Speaker 2: looked On Google maps and tried to map this location,

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Speaker 2: myself it showed a walking distance of nine, miles which

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Speaker 2: would have Taken christina about three hours to get. To

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Speaker 2: this does not seem, plausible BUT i know this is

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Speaker 2: a rural area and appearances can be. Deceiving sometimes distances

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Speaker 2: are not an accurate depiction of what's actually going on

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Speaker 2: on the. Ground sometimes there are shortcuts that we can't see.

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Speaker 2: Online SO i feel like this is one of those

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Speaker 2: questions That i'm going to have to go To arkansas to.

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Speaker 2: Answer After christina went, missing detectives went around the neighborhood

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Speaker 2: and interviewed the people who had last seen. Her while,

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Speaker 2: canvassing they talked to a woman Named Elsie. Lyles Elsie

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Speaker 2: lyles lived On Dotye, street right down From christina's. House

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Speaker 2: elsie said That christina had stopped by her house at

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Speaker 2: around four. Pm elsie said she Gave christina a pickle

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Speaker 2: as a. Snack after eating that, Pickle christina Left elsie's

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Speaker 2: house and walked. Home that's when she asked her dad

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Speaker 2: if she could walk around to do her door to

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Speaker 2: door jewelry. Sales christina had two school friends with. Her

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Speaker 2: they told police that for the next or so they

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Speaker 2: went around selling their jewelry door to. Door according to

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Speaker 2: the Information amy, has the girls told law enforcement they

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Speaker 2: Left christina at about six thirty pm At East Ash.

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Speaker 2: Street this was just a couple of blocks From christina's. Home,

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Speaker 2: NOW i haven't seen any of the official reports pertaining

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Speaker 2: To christina's. Case technically it's still an open case. FILE

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Speaker 2: i have made a foyer request AND i will let

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Speaker 2: you know IF i hear back from. Police BUT i

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Speaker 2: just want to put it out. THERE i would love

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Speaker 2: to talk to those, girls if they are out there

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Speaker 2: and if they're listening to, this BECAUSE i believe they

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Speaker 2: could have crucial information About christina's activities that, afternoon and

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Speaker 2: they might not even realize how important it. Is detectives

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Speaker 2: later found remnants of the pickle In christina's, stomach partially,

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Speaker 2: undigested which means that police believe she died on the

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Speaker 2: same day she went. Missing so we go back to that,

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Speaker 2: Day may, fourth nineteen ninety. One it's late, afternoon getting

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Speaker 2: to early. Evening christina's friends parted ways with her at

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Speaker 2: around six thirty. Pm, Now christina's dad specifically told her

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Speaker 2: to be home before. Dark so whether it was three

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Speaker 2: or four miles or nine, miles what would make a

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Speaker 2: little girl suddenly decide to walk on her own to

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Speaker 2: a ditch right before dark when she couldn't. Swim there

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Speaker 2: were a few other odd facts about the case that

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Speaker 2: could seem to point toward foul. Play they're mainly, circumstantial

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Speaker 2: like the fact that detectives never found the items That

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Speaker 2: christina was carrying when she left her. House they didn't

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Speaker 2: find her, jewelry, leaflets or the pencil she was carrying

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Speaker 2: around with her to write down. Orders, Also christina's body

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Speaker 2: was fully, clothed as we said, before she was wearing

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Speaker 2: the same things she'd been wearing the afternoon she, disappeared

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Speaker 2: but her shoes were, missing and no one ever found

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Speaker 2: her clothes toe white. Sandals so what happened to the?

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Speaker 2: Shoes did she take them off? Herself could someone have

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Speaker 2: been chasing her through those, dense watery rice fields and

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Speaker 2: her shoes peeled off her, Feet that is, Possible or

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Speaker 2: was she hanging out at someone's house or in their

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Speaker 2: car and took them off. Herself if she was, killed

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Speaker 2: did the killer take the shoes did they throw them

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Speaker 2: away or did they still have them stashed. Somewhere these

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Speaker 2: are all the types of dark possibilities that have occurred

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Speaker 2: to me with this. Case as we said, before the

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Speaker 2: sheriff Of Cross, county Where christina and her family, Lived Ronnie,

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Speaker 2: hughey actually said at the time the detectives Believed christina

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Speaker 2: was picked up and driven to the site where her

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Speaker 2: body was, found and he's given a couple of reasons

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Speaker 2: over the years to media about why he thinks. This

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Speaker 2: first of, all he, said if she walked to that

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Speaker 2: area would have taken a pretty long, time and he

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Speaker 2: believes someone would have seen her out. Walking number two

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Speaker 2: kind of along the same lines AS i was, thinking

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Speaker 2: just the fact that it was near. Dark christina was

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Speaker 2: a couple of blocks from, home and she was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be home before. Dark why would she randomly turn

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Speaker 2: around and walk in the other direction hours away to

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Speaker 2: a flooded ditch when she couldn't. Swim detectives did a

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Speaker 2: lot of, interviews but they didn't make any, arrests and

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Speaker 2: over the, years a lot of people in the county

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Speaker 2: wondered why the case seemed to go cold And christina's

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Speaker 2: body was not the last child's body found In east

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Speaker 2: dark andsas over the next few. Years On october, thirteenth

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, one a few months After christina's body was,

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Speaker 2: found sixteen year Old Guardinia Jones cross. Disappeared guardinia was

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Speaker 2: a tenth grader at high school in, when a nearby.

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Speaker 2: Town she lived with her, Grandmother Hattie. Cross guardina was

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Speaker 2: also a young mother. Herself she was raising a one

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Speaker 2: year old. Daughter guardinia's, Grandmother, hattie reported her, missing But

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Speaker 2: guardina was not missing for long because the next, day

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Speaker 2: On october, fourteenth a man was walking along the side

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Speaker 2: of a road Called Moore road outside of when he

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Speaker 2: was collecting cans and he saw a body naked except

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00:15:05,761 --> 00:15:11,681
Speaker 2: for a. Bra it Was Guardinia. Cross guardena had a

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00:15:11,721 --> 00:15:15,961
Speaker 2: puncture wound in her, head which investigators theorized was made

217
00:15:16,001 --> 00:15:20,921
Speaker 2: with something like a, tool maybe a, screwdriver and unlike

218
00:15:21,001 --> 00:15:24,961
Speaker 2: In christina's, case this time there was no ambiguity this

219
00:15:25,041 --> 00:15:29,441
Speaker 2: had been a brutal. Murder forensic testing revealed something. Else

220
00:15:29,921 --> 00:15:33,601
Speaker 2: when she, Died Guardenia cross was around five months. Pregnant

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00:15:34,841 --> 00:15:41,161
Speaker 2: no one was arrested or charged with that. Murder In

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Speaker 2: may of nineteen ninety. Two another young, girl a thirteen

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00:15:45,001 --> 00:15:49,241
Speaker 2: year old Named Geneva, smith was reported. Missing On june,

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Speaker 2: first a body was found in The Saint Francis. River

225
00:15:53,241 --> 00:15:56,681
Speaker 2: remember this was back in the, nineties BEFORE dna testing was,

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00:15:56,761 --> 00:16:00,601
Speaker 2: widespread and police had nothing to go. On they didn't

227
00:16:00,601 --> 00:16:04,481
Speaker 2: even have dental records to compare With. Geneva but investigators

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00:16:04,481 --> 00:16:06,721
Speaker 2: said at the time they were ninety nine percent sure

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00:16:07,081 --> 00:16:09,961
Speaker 2: that the body was her based on the clothing that

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00:16:10,001 --> 00:16:13,321
Speaker 2: she was. Wearing the shoes and shirt matched the description

231
00:16:13,401 --> 00:16:15,921
Speaker 2: That geneva's family had given of what she'd been wearing

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00:16:15,921 --> 00:16:20,081
Speaker 2: the day she went. Missing this was a. Tragedy they

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00:16:20,121 --> 00:16:24,241
Speaker 2: did eventually determine that this Was Geneva. Smith the body

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00:16:24,321 --> 00:16:28,601
Speaker 2: was so decomposed they weren't able to determine the exact

235
00:16:28,601 --> 00:16:31,361
Speaker 2: cause of. Death and not only, that all they could

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00:16:31,401 --> 00:16:35,361
Speaker 2: determine at first was that the victim was. Black they

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00:16:35,401 --> 00:16:38,361
Speaker 2: couldn't even figure out what gender the body. Was it

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00:16:38,441 --> 00:16:43,641
Speaker 2: was that badly decomposed and. BRUTALIZED i cannot imagine how

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00:16:43,841 --> 00:16:46,481
Speaker 2: horrifying that must have been for that young woman's. Family

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00:16:48,681 --> 00:16:52,641
Speaker 2: so what happened in that. Case eventually police did make an.

241
00:16:52,721 --> 00:16:57,481
Speaker 2: Arrest they charged two suspects with that, killing but those

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00:16:57,521 --> 00:17:01,921
Speaker 2: two men were, released So Geneva smith's killer or killers

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00:17:01,961 --> 00:17:09,801
Speaker 2: are also still out. There then In may of nineteen ninety,

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00:17:09,801 --> 00:17:13,201
Speaker 2: three there, was of, course the three eight year old,

245
00:17:13,201 --> 00:17:17,521
Speaker 2: Boys Michael, Moore Steve branch And Christopher, byers the boys

246
00:17:17,521 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 2: who had become known as The West Memphis. Three the

247
00:17:20,681 --> 00:17:23,360
Speaker 2: three friends went out for an after school bike ride

248
00:17:23,681 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 2: and they never came. Home their mutilated bodies were found

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00:17:27,681 --> 00:17:32,281
Speaker 2: in a nearby. Swamp, now eventually this case became a national,

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00:17:32,321 --> 00:17:35,321
Speaker 2: sensation and most of my listeners will be familiar with

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00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,321
Speaker 2: what happened. Next in The West memphis three, case sixteen

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00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,521
Speaker 2: year Old jesse Mus, kelly seventeen year Old James, baldwin

253
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,921
Speaker 2: and eighteen year Old Damian eccles were, arrested, prosecuted and eventually.

254
00:17:45,921 --> 00:17:50,561
Speaker 2: Convicted jesse And james got life, Sentences damien was sentenced to.

255
00:17:50,601 --> 00:17:54,281
Speaker 2: Death all of them sat in jail for many years

256
00:17:54,681 --> 00:17:57,881
Speaker 2: before numerous documentaries and books came out about this, case

257
00:17:58,401 --> 00:18:01,920
Speaker 2: and they documented the many injustices that had, happened the

258
00:18:01,921 --> 00:18:04,721
Speaker 2: fact that there was NO dna evidence that matched any of,

259
00:18:04,761 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 2: them no physical, evidence and there were a lot of

260
00:18:08,001 --> 00:18:11,441
Speaker 2: problems With jesse mckelly's confession in, particular which had gone

261
00:18:11,481 --> 00:18:15,721
Speaker 2: on for over twelve. Hours, Basically, Damien, james And jesse

262
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,001
Speaker 2: were convicted in an atmosphere of fear In West, memphis

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00:18:19,681 --> 00:18:23,401
Speaker 2: and this followed the satanic panic hysteria that happened during

264
00:18:23,441 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 2: the nineteen. Eighties Because damien was this kind of weird

265
00:18:26,921 --> 00:18:29,481
Speaker 2: local guy who listened to heavy metal and wore black

266
00:18:29,521 --> 00:18:33,121
Speaker 2: and was reportedly into, witchcraft the police just a laser

267
00:18:33,201 --> 00:18:37,001
Speaker 2: focused on him and they refused to change. Course over the,

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00:18:37,121 --> 00:18:40,481
Speaker 2: years all three of them maintained their innocence and NEW

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00:18:40,561 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 2: dna testing was done in two thousand and. Seven it

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00:18:43,201 --> 00:18:45,161
Speaker 2: was a nounce that THE dna found at the crime

271
00:18:45,201 --> 00:18:47,441
Speaker 2: scene did not match any of. Them it didn't Match,

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00:18:47,521 --> 00:18:52,441
Speaker 2: Damien jesse Or. James, furthermore there WAS dna at that crime,

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Speaker 2: scene THE dna of an unknown. Man in twenty, ten

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Speaker 2: The Supreme court ruled that the defendants could present new

275
00:19:02,321 --> 00:19:07,521
Speaker 2: evidence to establish their. Innocence so the three of them

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00:19:07,521 --> 00:19:09,681
Speaker 2: have been sitting in jail for over twenty years and

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00:19:09,721 --> 00:19:12,201
Speaker 2: they were getting ready for a new, trial, which as

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00:19:12,201 --> 00:19:15,001
Speaker 2: we all, know could have taken. Years that's when one

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00:19:15,001 --> 00:19:17,961
Speaker 2: of the defense attorneys suggested the men take something called

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00:19:18,001 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 2: An alfred. Plea, now An alfred plea is kind of.

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00:19:21,681 --> 00:19:24,201
Speaker 2: Unique what it means is that they could still claim

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00:19:24,241 --> 00:19:28,921
Speaker 2: they were innocent while not changing their guilty. Plea it's

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00:19:29,001 --> 00:19:31,721
Speaker 2: kind of a way of having it both. Ways the

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00:19:31,761 --> 00:19:34,041
Speaker 2: state gets to save. Face they don't have to have

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00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 2: a new. Trial they still have their guilty, plea And,

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00:19:37,801 --> 00:19:41,120
Speaker 2: Damian jesse And james don't have to waste more years

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00:19:41,121 --> 00:19:43,041
Speaker 2: of their lives waiting for a new. Trial they get

288
00:19:43,041 --> 00:19:45,481
Speaker 2: to get out of jail and start their. Lives so

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00:19:45,561 --> 00:19:49,441
Speaker 2: in twenty, eleven that's what. Happened the three defendants were

290
00:19:49,481 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 2: released without having to go through a new trial and

291
00:19:51,921 --> 00:19:56,241
Speaker 2: having the verdict. Overturn it's an ambiguous. Result the case

292
00:19:56,321 --> 00:19:59,441
Speaker 2: is still. Open damien and his attorneys are still fighting

293
00:19:59,441 --> 00:20:02,681
Speaker 2: to GET dna from the crime. Scene An arkansas judge

294
00:20:02,721 --> 00:20:06,041
Speaker 2: has denied that. Request the judge said that he was

295
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,401
Speaker 2: denying the request Because damien's out of prison. Now damien

296
00:20:10,441 --> 00:20:13,081
Speaker 2: and his lawyers have appealed this decision to The Arkansas Supreme,

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00:20:13,121 --> 00:20:15,281
Speaker 2: court and they are still waiting to find out if

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00:20:15,281 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: THAT dna testing can. Happen, remember this saga has been

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00:20:18,641 --> 00:20:21,001
Speaker 2: going on for over thirty years at this, point and

300
00:20:21,041 --> 00:20:25,041
Speaker 2: there's still no final. ANSWER i bring this case up

301
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,921
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i absolutely believe that if it hadn't been for

302
00:20:29,001 --> 00:20:32,401
Speaker 2: the fact that all of these injustices were documented by

303
00:20:32,481 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 2: journalists and books and, documentaries the problems with this case

304
00:20:36,441 --> 00:20:40,041
Speaker 2: would never have been. Revealed all three of those, Guys, Damien,

305
00:20:40,161 --> 00:20:42,961
Speaker 2: jesse And james would still be sitting in prison right.

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00:20:43,001 --> 00:20:46,161
Speaker 2: NOW i really believe. That and this was all going

307
00:20:46,201 --> 00:20:49,321
Speaker 2: on in the early. Nineties especially during this, time there

308
00:20:49,321 --> 00:20:52,361
Speaker 2: were some very real abuses going on In, arkansas both

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00:20:52,361 --> 00:20:55,201
Speaker 2: in law enforcement and in the crime, lab and the

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00:20:55,241 --> 00:20:59,601
Speaker 2: repercussions of those mistakes are still going on to this. Day,

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00:21:00,281 --> 00:21:04,761
Speaker 2: also if those three guys weren't the, killers that means

312
00:21:04,761 --> 00:21:07,441
Speaker 2: that the actual killer of The West memphis, three the

313
00:21:07,601 --> 00:21:11,521
Speaker 2: person or persons who mutilated those three little boys and

314
00:21:11,641 --> 00:21:14,241
Speaker 2: dumped them in the, swamp is still out, there and

315
00:21:14,281 --> 00:21:16,561
Speaker 2: a lot of people worry they may never be. Charged

316
00:21:17,801 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 2: who knows how many predatory child killers are still out

317
00:21:21,441 --> 00:21:28,241
Speaker 2: there In East arkansas. Now despite the fact that all

318
00:21:28,241 --> 00:21:32,761
Speaker 2: of these deaths happened in the same general, area investigators

319
00:21:32,761 --> 00:21:35,521
Speaker 2: have never found a connection between any of them between

320
00:21:35,561 --> 00:21:39,321
Speaker 2: The West memphis, Three Guardina Cross, Jones Geneva, smith And Christina.

321
00:21:39,361 --> 00:21:42,241
Speaker 2: Pipkin there were a lot of. Differences the dead children

322
00:21:42,281 --> 00:21:46,681
Speaker 2: were different. Ages, guardina like The West MEMPHIS, iii had

323
00:21:46,681 --> 00:21:49,281
Speaker 2: a lot of damage to her, body, while for, Example

324
00:21:49,401 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 2: christina did not have any obvious marks on. Her Apparently

325
00:21:52,881 --> 00:21:55,401
Speaker 2: Geneva smith's body was too decomposed to know for. Sure

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00:21:57,521 --> 00:22:01,841
Speaker 2: Cross County Sheriff Ronnie hughey expressed his frustration back. Then he, said,

327
00:22:01,921 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 2: quote you keep scratching and clawing and. Digging these kinds

328
00:22:06,121 --> 00:22:09,401
Speaker 2: of cases are different because these are. Kids we've been

329
00:22:09,441 --> 00:22:15,681
Speaker 2: backwards and. Forwards it's been very. Frustrating end. Quote now

330
00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:18,961
Speaker 2: let's come back to The Christina pipkin. Case let's talk

331
00:22:18,961 --> 00:22:23,281
Speaker 2: about what happened after police finally made an. Arrest police

332
00:22:23,281 --> 00:22:25,921
Speaker 2: were questioning everyone in the neighborhood that were checking out

333
00:22:25,921 --> 00:22:29,481
Speaker 2: potential people of, interest, including from what my source, says

334
00:22:29,801 --> 00:22:33,281
Speaker 2: some local sex, offenders including one guy From florida who

335
00:22:33,361 --> 00:22:37,321
Speaker 2: was living. Nearby then they began to focus on someone

336
00:22:37,401 --> 00:22:40,161
Speaker 2: they considered A bible. Suspect and this is Where amy's

337
00:22:40,161 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: father in, Law Robbie, tubbs enters the story and he

338
00:22:43,921 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: admits that her father in law, was in her, words

339
00:22:47,161 --> 00:22:51,641
Speaker 2: not a particularly good. Man back in the early, Nineties

340
00:22:52,041 --> 00:22:54,921
Speaker 2: robbie was married and he and his, Wife sandra had five.

341
00:22:55,041 --> 00:22:59,521
Speaker 2: Kids according To, Amy robbie was physically abusive with his

342
00:22:59,561 --> 00:23:03,361
Speaker 2: Wife sandra at. Times robbie didn't have a regular nine

343
00:23:03,401 --> 00:23:05,961
Speaker 2: to five. Job he always did kind of side. Jobs

344
00:23:06,401 --> 00:23:09,041
Speaker 2: he would go out turtle hunting and fishing and selling

345
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,801
Speaker 2: things that he. Caught Sandra tubbs talked to the police

346
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,361
Speaker 2: In october of nineteen ninety, one a few months After

347
00:23:18,481 --> 00:23:21,841
Speaker 2: christina's body was. Found when she came in to see,

348
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,481
Speaker 2: them she told them that back When christina first went,

349
00:23:24,601 --> 00:23:27,681
Speaker 2: Missing robbie had made a comment to her that she

350
00:23:27,801 --> 00:23:30,681
Speaker 2: said disturbed her and it led her to believe that he,

351
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,281
Speaker 2: had in a way potentially confessed To christina's. Murder sandra

352
00:23:35,401 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 2: Said robbie told, her right after hearing That christina was,

353
00:23:38,401 --> 00:23:41,801
Speaker 2: missing that he Knew christina would turn up dead in

354
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,281
Speaker 2: a rice ditch In Jackson. County she told police That robbie, said,

355
00:23:46,361 --> 00:23:49,961
Speaker 2: quote there are too many rice ditches for somebody to drown.

356
00:23:50,001 --> 00:23:54,681
Speaker 2: In she's dead end. Quote sandra said she confronted her

357
00:23:54,761 --> 00:23:56,721
Speaker 2: husband and started asking him what he meant by that.

358
00:23:56,761 --> 00:24:01,041
Speaker 2: Comment when she, did the fight seemed to. Escalate sandra

359
00:24:01,121 --> 00:24:04,521
Speaker 2: said she threatened to call the, police and that's when

360
00:24:04,601 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: she Said robbie tied her up and gagged her to

361
00:24:07,601 --> 00:24:11,761
Speaker 2: stop her from calling law. Enforcement sandra told a friend of,

362
00:24:11,801 --> 00:24:14,801
Speaker 2: hers a woman Named, susan the same story at the. Time,

363
00:24:15,641 --> 00:24:18,361
Speaker 2: later police Called sandra's friend and took a statement from,

364
00:24:18,361 --> 00:24:21,721
Speaker 2: her and that friend confirmed that, Yes sandra had told

365
00:24:21,721 --> 00:24:24,001
Speaker 2: her that story at around the time When christina went.

366
00:24:24,041 --> 00:24:27,281
Speaker 2: Missing so the police went to talk To Robbie. Tubbs

367
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,841
Speaker 2: Arkansas State police Investigator Dale arnold did the. Interview according

368
00:24:32,881 --> 00:24:35,961
Speaker 2: to police, documents the first time That Dale arnold talked To,

369
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,761
Speaker 2: Robbie robbie claimed he was not in the area Of

370
00:24:39,801 --> 00:24:43,521
Speaker 2: Hickory ridge at all On may, fourth nineteen ninety, one

371
00:24:43,801 --> 00:24:46,001
Speaker 2: so he said he was nowhere near the area Where

372
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,201
Speaker 2: christina went missing, From but later he apparently changed his.

373
00:24:50,281 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: Story he said he may have been around there on

374
00:24:52,921 --> 00:24:57,721
Speaker 2: the Day christina. Disappeared police were finding issues With robbie's.

375
00:24:57,761 --> 00:25:01,321
Speaker 2: Alibi robbie claimed he had been staying in a motel And, DeWitt,

376
00:25:01,401 --> 00:25:05,681
Speaker 2: arkansas but police checked the motel registration they couldn't find

377
00:25:05,721 --> 00:25:10,281
Speaker 2: any record Of robbie staying, there probably because police Believed

378
00:25:10,401 --> 00:25:13,561
Speaker 2: christina had been driven to that. Location, obviously they were

379
00:25:13,641 --> 00:25:17,241
Speaker 2: checking out every person of interest. Car at some point

380
00:25:17,281 --> 00:25:20,481
Speaker 2: police figured out That robbie had a, car a nineteen

381
00:25:20,521 --> 00:25:24,001
Speaker 2: eighty ONE Amc eagle that he had sold sometime in

382
00:25:24,041 --> 00:25:27,241
Speaker 2: the spring of nineteen ninety, one so this Is december

383
00:25:27,241 --> 00:25:30,041
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety. One After sandra came to see, them

384
00:25:31,281 --> 00:25:33,801
Speaker 2: police found the woman Who robbie had sold the car.

385
00:25:33,881 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 2: To it wasn't, running just sitting out in her yard

386
00:25:37,441 --> 00:25:40,721
Speaker 2: where it had been sitting for. Months but police went

387
00:25:40,761 --> 00:25:43,321
Speaker 2: out and found the vehicle and did forensic testing on that.

388
00:25:43,361 --> 00:25:47,121
Speaker 2: Car they got a hair sample which they bagged as. Evidence,

389
00:25:48,321 --> 00:25:52,481
Speaker 2: Now robbie's private life was. Complicated he was married To,

390
00:25:52,561 --> 00:25:55,881
Speaker 2: sandra but he had been seeing another woman Named. Janetta

391
00:25:56,601 --> 00:26:00,041
Speaker 2: police Asked robbi during their questioning If christina could have

392
00:26:00,121 --> 00:26:03,801
Speaker 2: ever been inside his, car and apparently at one point

393
00:26:04,041 --> 00:26:07,281
Speaker 2: he said That christina and another child may have sat

394
00:26:07,281 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: in his car With. Janetta apparently her child went to

395
00:26:11,641 --> 00:26:15,521
Speaker 2: the same school As. Christina, anyway he said that he

396
00:26:15,641 --> 00:26:18,561
Speaker 2: and these, kids one of whom may have Been, christina

397
00:26:19,041 --> 00:26:21,601
Speaker 2: sat in his car in a nearby park With. Janetta

398
00:26:22,281 --> 00:26:25,401
Speaker 2: but then police talked To, janetta she said that wasn't.

399
00:26:25,441 --> 00:26:28,761
Speaker 2: True she Said christina was never in that car and

400
00:26:28,801 --> 00:26:32,601
Speaker 2: that they had never been in that. Park so Now

401
00:26:32,801 --> 00:26:36,441
Speaker 2: robbie's alibi seemed to be kind of falling. APART i

402
00:26:36,481 --> 00:26:39,201
Speaker 2: want to point, out, though that without access to the case,

403
00:26:39,201 --> 00:26:42,681
Speaker 2: file without recordings of what, happened we don't know what

404
00:26:42,881 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: happened Before robbie made those. Statements we don't know what

405
00:26:45,881 --> 00:26:48,041
Speaker 2: the police Told, robbie how long they had him in.

406
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: Custody were these statements coerced in any. Way i'm not

407
00:26:52,481 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 2: saying that they. Were i'm just saying, that given what

408
00:26:55,241 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: was going on In arkansas at that, time we need

409
00:26:58,121 --> 00:27:02,401
Speaker 2: to know for sure how that questioning went. Down growing,

410
00:27:02,481 --> 00:27:04,721
Speaker 2: UP i used to always think that if you hadn't

411
00:27:04,721 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: done anything, wrong that there was no way that you

412
00:27:06,921 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: would lie in a police interrogation. Room but after What

413
00:27:10,201 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: i've learned over the, YEARS i now no longer believe

414
00:27:12,641 --> 00:27:15,161
Speaker 2: THAT i want to know the context of what was being.

415
00:27:15,201 --> 00:27:20,361
Speaker 2: Said police Had sandra's statement About, robbie and they had

416
00:27:20,361 --> 00:27:24,681
Speaker 2: that hair sample From robbie's former. Vehicle, now forensic testing

417
00:27:24,761 --> 00:27:27,441
Speaker 2: was not nearly as advanced in nineteen ninety one as

418
00:27:27,441 --> 00:27:30,681
Speaker 2: it is now, obviously so the testing police could have

419
00:27:30,721 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: done on that hair at the time would have been pretty.

420
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,241
Speaker 2: Limited without the advanced, testing the police had no physical,

421
00:27:37,281 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: evidence at least not. Yet but they were building a

422
00:27:41,121 --> 00:27:44,641
Speaker 2: case Against Robbie, tubbs and they Had Sandra tubbs is

423
00:27:44,681 --> 00:27:48,401
Speaker 2: their main. Witness but no jury would ever hear From

424
00:27:48,441 --> 00:27:52,561
Speaker 2: Sandra tubbs because On may, fourth nineteen ninety, three exactly

425
00:27:52,681 --> 00:27:57,681
Speaker 2: two years After Christina pipkin, Vanished Sandra tubbs was brutally.

426
00:27:57,761 --> 00:28:11,681
Speaker 2: Murdered the circumstances around the murder Of Sandra tubbs are,

427
00:28:11,721 --> 00:28:15,881
Speaker 2: bizarre to say the, least and they are. Controversial some

428
00:28:15,921 --> 00:28:19,001
Speaker 2: people to this day believe That Robbie tubbs had something

429
00:28:19,001 --> 00:28:21,041
Speaker 2: to do with. It they just think that timing is too.

430
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:26,201
Speaker 2: Coincidental they wonder if he somehow masterminded the. Murder it

431
00:28:26,321 --> 00:28:30,721
Speaker 2: just seemed very strange that exactly two years After Christina pipkin's,

432
00:28:30,761 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: death That sandra would be found. Dead On may, fourth

433
00:28:34,961 --> 00:28:39,081
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, Three Sandra tubbs was alone at home In, Moro.

434
00:28:39,321 --> 00:28:43,401
Speaker 2: Arkansas the school bus had come between five and seven

435
00:28:43,441 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: am that. Morning all Of sandra's children were already at.

436
00:28:47,441 --> 00:28:50,441
Speaker 2: School only her youngest, son who was sleeping on the

437
00:28:50,481 --> 00:28:52,721
Speaker 2: living room floor in front of THE, tv was home with.

438
00:28:52,801 --> 00:28:56,561
Speaker 2: Her sandra was doing some home. Decorating she had a

439
00:28:56,601 --> 00:28:59,121
Speaker 2: can of paint varnish open with a brush lying on

440
00:28:59,161 --> 00:29:00,601
Speaker 2: top of, it like she was in the middle of.

441
00:29:00,641 --> 00:29:04,961
Speaker 2: Painting robbie later told police that he woke up that,

442
00:29:05,041 --> 00:29:07,481
Speaker 2: morning he And sandra made some. Coffee they had a

443
00:29:07,481 --> 00:29:09,881
Speaker 2: totally normal conversation about what they were going to do that.

444
00:29:09,961 --> 00:29:13,601
Speaker 2: Day then he said he left the house by seven point.

445
00:29:13,601 --> 00:29:16,921
Speaker 2: Fifteen his, plan he, said was to go out and

446
00:29:16,961 --> 00:29:18,921
Speaker 2: pull in some, turtlenets get out on the water for

447
00:29:18,961 --> 00:29:21,561
Speaker 2: a little, bit then to head to the store in

448
00:29:21,641 --> 00:29:26,801
Speaker 2: town In. Morrow After robbie left the, house sometime after seven,

449
00:29:26,841 --> 00:29:31,161
Speaker 2: am two local teenagers Named Jerry Lee ray And Stephen

450
00:29:31,281 --> 00:29:35,161
Speaker 2: Chad kapliner came to the. Door now these teens were

451
00:29:35,201 --> 00:29:38,361
Speaker 2: apparently acquaintances Of robbie And sandra's, kids and rode the

452
00:29:38,361 --> 00:29:41,921
Speaker 2: bus with. Them the boys lived nearby and later told

453
00:29:42,001 --> 00:29:44,961
Speaker 2: police they had kind of a vague plan to run

454
00:29:45,001 --> 00:29:48,201
Speaker 2: away from. Home they had started the day, earlier but

455
00:29:48,281 --> 00:29:51,961
Speaker 2: hadn't made it very. Far chad And jerry had camped

456
00:29:51,961 --> 00:29:54,161
Speaker 2: out all night in a tent in the. Woods they

457
00:29:54,161 --> 00:29:56,961
Speaker 2: were carrying an orange bag with them containing their, pup,

458
00:29:57,001 --> 00:30:01,161
Speaker 2: tent a, flashlight a pair of, binoculars a maroon, jacket a,

459
00:30:01,201 --> 00:30:05,881
Speaker 2: compass a knife, sheath shotgun, shells some alka, seltzer and

460
00:30:05,961 --> 00:30:10,521
Speaker 2: a leather. Whip they needed, supplies and they seemed to

461
00:30:10,561 --> 00:30:12,721
Speaker 2: come up with this kind of half baked plan to

462
00:30:12,761 --> 00:30:14,841
Speaker 2: steal some stuff from houses.

463
00:30:17,201 --> 00:30:17,281
Speaker 3: That.

464
00:30:17,481 --> 00:30:21,161
Speaker 2: Morning they waited until after the school bus, left then

465
00:30:21,761 --> 00:30:25,961
Speaker 2: they Approached sandra's back. Door, now according to statements the

466
00:30:26,001 --> 00:30:28,681
Speaker 2: teens made to police That amy managed to get a hold,

467
00:30:28,721 --> 00:30:33,441
Speaker 2: of each of the guys had fairly similar versions of what,

468
00:30:33,561 --> 00:30:36,161
Speaker 2: happened except they kind of blamed each other for doing the.

469
00:30:36,161 --> 00:30:40,481
Speaker 2: Shooting chad claimed he was holding the shotgun and that

470
00:30:40,761 --> 00:30:43,401
Speaker 2: after they came up on the back, porch he pulled

471
00:30:43,441 --> 00:30:46,081
Speaker 2: the hand and threw the gun To Jerry Lee, ray

472
00:30:46,641 --> 00:30:49,121
Speaker 2: and after, that he, Said Jerry Lee ray started. Shooting

473
00:30:49,201 --> 00:30:52,881
Speaker 2: he had no idea what. Happened, again, basically each one

474
00:30:52,921 --> 00:30:55,441
Speaker 2: blamed the, other but looking at their police, statements in my,

475
00:30:55,521 --> 00:30:59,121
Speaker 2: Opinion Jerry Lee ray's story is much more believable and

476
00:30:59,161 --> 00:31:03,401
Speaker 2: has a lot more credible. Details jerry said that they

477
00:31:03,441 --> 00:31:06,001
Speaker 2: went to the. Door chad had the shotgun in his. Hand,

478
00:31:06,801 --> 00:31:09,321
Speaker 2: again their objective that morning was to steal some. Food

479
00:31:09,361 --> 00:31:11,881
Speaker 2: they thought no one was, home but when they went

480
00:31:11,961 --> 00:31:15,081
Speaker 2: up on the back, Porch sandra appeared at the. Door

481
00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:19,001
Speaker 2: she probably saw they were carrying a. Shotgun she shut

482
00:31:19,041 --> 00:31:22,041
Speaker 2: the door in their. Face at that, point a shot

483
00:31:22,161 --> 00:31:25,601
Speaker 2: was fired through the. Door police found drops of blood

484
00:31:25,681 --> 00:31:28,641
Speaker 2: inside the, home and they were able to recreate what

485
00:31:28,721 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: they believe. Happened, next one of the, teens Probably, chad

486
00:31:34,241 --> 00:31:36,241
Speaker 2: had the gun in his hand and fired that first.

487
00:31:36,281 --> 00:31:39,681
Speaker 2: Shot it went through the door and Hit sandra and wounded,

488
00:31:39,721 --> 00:31:42,921
Speaker 2: her but it wasn't. Fatal in that, moment it seemed

489
00:31:42,961 --> 00:31:47,001
Speaker 2: like everyone. Panicked chad And jerry Chased sandra through the.

490
00:31:47,001 --> 00:31:50,601
Speaker 2: House when police came to the, scene the rest of

491
00:31:50,601 --> 00:31:54,161
Speaker 2: the house looked basically. Untouched it looked like they chased

492
00:31:54,201 --> 00:31:56,601
Speaker 2: her straight through the back door and out the front.

493
00:31:56,601 --> 00:32:01,121
Speaker 2: Door at that, point it seemed Like sandra completely. Panicked

494
00:32:01,681 --> 00:32:03,921
Speaker 2: she left her young son sleeping on the living room.

495
00:32:03,961 --> 00:32:07,121
Speaker 2: Floor she was running for her. Life she raced out

496
00:32:07,121 --> 00:32:10,201
Speaker 2: that front. Door, now of, course it's impossible to know

497
00:32:10,401 --> 00:32:13,881
Speaker 2: exactly what she was thinking at that, Point But i'm

498
00:32:13,881 --> 00:32:16,801
Speaker 2: thinking she was probably trying to get to the neighbor's

499
00:32:16,801 --> 00:32:21,361
Speaker 2: house to get some, help or to attract, attention or

500
00:32:21,521 --> 00:32:24,601
Speaker 2: just her instinct is a, mother maybe she was just

501
00:32:24,681 --> 00:32:27,281
Speaker 2: trying to lure that danger away from her little. Son

502
00:32:28,481 --> 00:32:31,321
Speaker 2: Jerry Lee ray said in his statement that once they

503
00:32:31,401 --> 00:32:34,041
Speaker 2: got to the front, Yard chad was yelling At, sandra

504
00:32:34,081 --> 00:32:37,201
Speaker 2: but he couldn't understand what he was. Saying chad Shot

505
00:32:37,281 --> 00:32:40,921
Speaker 2: sandra in the. Back the shotgun blast Knocked sandra to

506
00:32:40,961 --> 00:32:44,201
Speaker 2: her knees and she fell. Forward her, glass which she

507
00:32:44,201 --> 00:32:48,401
Speaker 2: couldn't see, without fell off during the. Struggle police later

508
00:32:48,521 --> 00:32:51,401
Speaker 2: found two shotgun, holes which is the outer casing that

509
00:32:51,481 --> 00:32:54,521
Speaker 2: holds the, shells at the. Scene one was on the

510
00:32:54,561 --> 00:32:57,801
Speaker 2: back near the back porch, steps the other in the

511
00:32:57,801 --> 00:33:01,121
Speaker 2: front yard about thirty yards from Where sandra was lying.

512
00:33:01,201 --> 00:33:06,481
Speaker 2: Dead after the, Shooting jerry And chad ran to a nearby.

513
00:33:06,521 --> 00:33:09,921
Speaker 2: House they stole some food out of the, cabinet stole

514
00:33:10,001 --> 00:33:13,681
Speaker 2: Some easter candy and playing. Cards, also they stole a

515
00:33:13,721 --> 00:33:17,241
Speaker 2: gun during that time while they were at the neighbor's.

516
00:33:17,321 --> 00:33:20,201
Speaker 2: Place apparently they also took off their shoes and put

517
00:33:20,201 --> 00:33:24,321
Speaker 2: on some other. Ones these guys were not criminal. Masterminds

518
00:33:24,841 --> 00:33:28,041
Speaker 2: they left behind all kinds of, evidence including footprints and

519
00:33:28,161 --> 00:33:31,681
Speaker 2: the actual shoes they. Wore police pretty quickly were able

520
00:33:31,681 --> 00:33:34,801
Speaker 2: to bag those shoes. Up they also left their bag

521
00:33:35,361 --> 00:33:38,081
Speaker 2: with all of their supplies in it at the murder.

522
00:33:38,161 --> 00:33:40,801
Speaker 2: Scene they had to go back and grab. It they

523
00:33:40,841 --> 00:33:42,921
Speaker 2: also tried to steal a truck that was sitting out

524
00:33:42,921 --> 00:33:46,121
Speaker 2: in front of rob In sandra's, house but they couldn't

525
00:33:46,121 --> 00:33:48,881
Speaker 2: even do that because the vehicle wouldn't, start so they

526
00:33:48,961 --> 00:33:53,001
Speaker 2: hid in the. Woods after police showed up with, bloodhounds

527
00:33:53,601 --> 00:33:56,801
Speaker 2: they quickly found the two. Teens they also found the

528
00:33:56,841 --> 00:33:59,961
Speaker 2: shoes and the gun and all the other. Evidence they

529
00:34:00,041 --> 00:34:06,001
Speaker 2: Captured chad And, jerry and they quickly. Confessed there are

530
00:34:06,041 --> 00:34:09,321
Speaker 2: a lot of tragic things About Sandra tubbs's, murder but

531
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,881
Speaker 2: one of the, worst in my, opinion was that the

532
00:34:11,921 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: whole murder was literally for. Nothing they Killed, sandra five,

533
00:34:16,601 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: children don't have a, Mother jerry And chad went to

534
00:34:20,201 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: jail for their entire young, lives and for. Nothing all

535
00:34:25,201 --> 00:34:28,881
Speaker 2: they got was some easter. Candy probably because of, that

536
00:34:29,641 --> 00:34:32,281
Speaker 2: the rumor mill. Started there must have been more to.

537
00:34:32,321 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: It could the kids have been put up to that

538
00:34:34,201 --> 00:34:37,801
Speaker 2: robbery by someone, else Maybe robbie, senior or by someone,

539
00:34:37,841 --> 00:34:41,681
Speaker 2: younger maybe someone in the, family someone they, knew someone

540
00:34:41,681 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: else who rode the bus with those. Kids, Again i'm

541
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: not accusing anyone of. Anything i'm just trying to understand

542
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,881
Speaker 2: the family connections and how this all fits, together because

543
00:34:51,401 --> 00:34:55,241
Speaker 2: on the, Surface amy pointed out that it does seem

544
00:34:55,281 --> 00:34:57,361
Speaker 2: Like robbie And sander's house would be kind of a

545
00:34:57,361 --> 00:34:59,601
Speaker 2: weird one to target if you wanted to steal. Anything

546
00:35:00,401 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: robbie was a turtle. Hunter it's not like he had

547
00:35:02,601 --> 00:35:04,201
Speaker 2: anything of any real value in.

548
00:35:04,281 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: There why they thought that a house OF i don't

549
00:35:10,041 --> 00:35:11,841
Speaker 3: know how many KIDS i had at the, time five or,

550
00:35:11,881 --> 00:35:15,761
Speaker 3: six with the man who made his living off of

551
00:35:16,361 --> 00:35:20,721
Speaker 3: shell diving and turtle, TURTLING i guess would be the

552
00:35:20,761 --> 00:35:25,201
Speaker 3: house to ROB i don't. Know AND i feel like

553
00:35:26,081 --> 00:35:27,921
Speaker 3: IF i would have been a sixteen year old kid

554
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,161
Speaker 3: looking at you, know Because arkansas was trying kids at

555
00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:36,601
Speaker 3: that time for as adults and you, know seeking the

556
00:35:36,641 --> 00:35:40,761
Speaker 3: nest salty FOR i feel like they would have sang

557
00:35:40,881 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 3: like a canary if they had anything on. HIM i

558
00:35:45,481 --> 00:35:48,921
Speaker 3: just don't feel like they were like harden thugs that were,

559
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:55,201
Speaker 3: gonna you, know go away for. Him but, no her family,

560
00:35:55,281 --> 00:35:58,601
Speaker 3: says her family for a long time just swore he was,

561
00:35:58,641 --> 00:36:01,281
Speaker 3: involved and so they didn't have much to do With,

562
00:36:01,801 --> 00:36:06,401
Speaker 3: robbie My robbie growing, up or any of the, kids

563
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: because you, know they all thought as daddy killed his

564
00:36:09,641 --> 00:36:13,161
Speaker 3: mom or had something to do with. It it's been

565
00:36:13,281 --> 00:36:17,121
Speaker 3: so hard for your. Husband, yeah he's had a real tough.

566
00:36:17,201 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: Life Robbie tubbs gave a statement to police and he

567
00:36:23,041 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: was completely cleared of any involvement in the. SHOOTING i

568
00:36:26,521 --> 00:36:28,881
Speaker 2: did read his, statement AND i did find just a

569
00:36:28,881 --> 00:36:31,121
Speaker 2: couple of THINGS i wanted to flag up BECAUSE i

570
00:36:31,161 --> 00:36:34,561
Speaker 2: thought they were a little bit, inconsistent mostly related to.

571
00:36:34,681 --> 00:36:38,201
Speaker 2: Timing robbie said in his statement to police that he

572
00:36:38,321 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: left the house at around seven. Fifteen he said he

573
00:36:41,121 --> 00:36:44,081
Speaker 2: went straight to a nearby body of, water out on

574
00:36:44,121 --> 00:36:46,841
Speaker 2: the water for around thirty five minutes or. So then

575
00:36:46,881 --> 00:36:49,681
Speaker 2: he pulled his nets in and saw a neighbor of

576
00:36:49,721 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: his he knew Named. Danny robbie said, quote he was

577
00:36:54,481 --> 00:36:56,401
Speaker 2: fixing to go out and get some trout, lines AND

578
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: i asked him what time it was SO i would

579
00:36:58,161 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: know if he was going to be free to show

580
00:36:59,641 --> 00:37:02,561
Speaker 2: me some places to put my nets. Out he said

581
00:37:02,641 --> 00:37:05,241
Speaker 2: it's eight thirty as he was walking. OFF i have

582
00:37:05,321 --> 00:37:07,881
Speaker 2: a bad habit of asking people what time it. Is end.

583
00:37:07,921 --> 00:37:11,081
Speaker 2: Quote this is a little bit of a weird, comment

584
00:37:11,561 --> 00:37:13,921
Speaker 2: but then, AGAIN i don't. Know it might have made

585
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,801
Speaker 2: sense in that. Context remember this was back in the early.

586
00:37:16,881 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: Nineties this is a time before cell. Phones people did

587
00:37:20,161 --> 00:37:22,881
Speaker 2: ask other people if they noticed that person was wearing

588
00:37:22,921 --> 00:37:25,801
Speaker 2: watches what time it. Was it was a. Thing we

589
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,881
Speaker 2: always have to be open minded and consider every. Possibility

590
00:37:29,761 --> 00:37:33,641
Speaker 2: but if that timeline's, correct that puts us at around

591
00:37:33,681 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: eight thirty or eight thirty, Five robbie. Said after that,

592
00:37:37,081 --> 00:37:40,081
Speaker 2: conversation he left his Friend. Danny he went back to

593
00:37:40,121 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: his house and was messing around with the turtlenets when

594
00:37:43,001 --> 00:37:45,441
Speaker 2: he noticed that the dogs were freaking out and. Barking

595
00:37:46,041 --> 00:37:47,921
Speaker 2: he went to the house through the back. Door he

596
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,361
Speaker 2: saw the paint, Can he saw his son sleeping on the.

597
00:37:50,361 --> 00:37:53,681
Speaker 2: Floor then he, said he went out the front he

598
00:37:53,721 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: was looking For. Sandra that's when he Saw sandra lying.

599
00:37:57,241 --> 00:37:58,081
Speaker 3: There he.

600
00:37:58,121 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: Said he turned her over just enough to realize there

601
00:38:00,601 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: was a hole in her. Chest then he went back

602
00:38:03,161 --> 00:38:05,721
Speaker 2: in the, house saw that his son was, there checked on,

603
00:38:05,801 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: him and then ran to the. Neighbors robbie said after

604
00:38:10,161 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: that he went To danny's, house Saw danny's, wife and

605
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: That danny's wife called nine one. One, Then robbie said

606
00:38:17,521 --> 00:38:19,321
Speaker 2: he went back home and by the time he got,

607
00:38:19,321 --> 00:38:22,801
Speaker 2: There danny was arriving there. Too they both went out

608
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,921
Speaker 2: and looked At sandra's. Body, Remember robbie had said he

609
00:38:27,001 --> 00:38:29,161
Speaker 2: made a point of asking his friend what time it

610
00:38:29,361 --> 00:38:31,721
Speaker 2: was right after he left his house and went down

611
00:38:31,761 --> 00:38:34,841
Speaker 2: to deal with The. Turtlenets he said That danny had

612
00:38:34,841 --> 00:38:37,761
Speaker 2: said it was eight thirty and that supposedly happened before

613
00:38:37,881 --> 00:38:40,081
Speaker 2: he went back to the house and Found sandra's. Body

614
00:38:41,561 --> 00:38:44,881
Speaker 2: danny's story to police was. Similar he told, police, yes

615
00:38:44,921 --> 00:38:47,841
Speaker 2: he had Seen robbie that, morning but he said the

616
00:38:47,841 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: conversation about time happened after all. This, so after they

617
00:38:52,041 --> 00:38:56,521
Speaker 2: had their initial, Conversation robbie left to go. Home danny

618
00:38:56,761 --> 00:38:58,921
Speaker 2: got home and found out that his wife had called

619
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,121
Speaker 2: nine one. One he rushes over To robbie And sandra's

620
00:39:02,121 --> 00:39:05,281
Speaker 2: house finds the. Body after all, that he said they

621
00:39:05,281 --> 00:39:07,801
Speaker 2: had a conversation about, time and at that time he

622
00:39:07,801 --> 00:39:10,921
Speaker 2: said it was eight thirty. Five, again we don't have a.

623
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,961
Speaker 2: Recording this could have been a misunderstanding by a police.

624
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,721
Speaker 2: OFFICER i don't, know but Obviously i'm super sensitive to

625
00:39:17,761 --> 00:39:22,641
Speaker 2: anything involving the timeline and police also talked to someone,

626
00:39:22,681 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: else the stepfather of one of the murder. Suspects now

627
00:39:26,121 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: their family lived, nearby and the stepfather said he heard

628
00:39:29,041 --> 00:39:33,121
Speaker 2: a single shot, earlier at around seven thirty. Am of,

629
00:39:33,161 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: course the part of my brain that's always thinking about

630
00:39:35,561 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: albis and how people try to build alibis to fill

631
00:39:38,201 --> 00:39:41,521
Speaker 2: in timeline to their. Advantage i'm thinking if the shooting

632
00:39:41,601 --> 00:39:45,761
Speaker 2: started closer to the time the bus left that, morning

633
00:39:47,121 --> 00:39:49,921
Speaker 2: that could explain Why robbie might have wanted to make

634
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,321
Speaker 2: it seem like he was definitely out of the house

635
00:39:52,361 --> 00:39:53,801
Speaker 2: and had been out of the house for a while

636
00:39:53,801 --> 00:39:57,921
Speaker 2: when that went. Down either, way, though the timeline does

637
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: seem to check out without minor. Inconsistency he left home

638
00:40:01,521 --> 00:40:04,281
Speaker 2: according to, him and according to the, suspects he was

639
00:40:04,361 --> 00:40:06,881
Speaker 2: gone by the time they got. There it's also a

640
00:40:06,881 --> 00:40:09,121
Speaker 2: little weird to me that When robbie went back to

641
00:40:09,161 --> 00:40:11,121
Speaker 2: the house and saw his wife lying there with a

642
00:40:11,161 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: hole in her, chest he checked to see if his

643
00:40:13,521 --> 00:40:15,841
Speaker 2: son was. There saw him, sleeping and then left his

644
00:40:15,881 --> 00:40:18,601
Speaker 2: son behind to go to the neighbor's, house because how

645
00:40:18,601 --> 00:40:21,201
Speaker 2: would he know that the killer wasn't still, there, which

646
00:40:21,241 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: as it turned, out they were they were hanging out

647
00:40:24,041 --> 00:40:27,641
Speaker 2: in those woods. Still but also that could have just been.

648
00:40:27,681 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: Shocked robbie said he And sandra had not had any

649
00:40:31,521 --> 00:40:33,601
Speaker 2: problems in their. Marriage they had been getting along great

650
00:40:33,641 --> 00:40:35,841
Speaker 2: for the last year or. So they had had a

651
00:40:35,881 --> 00:40:39,561
Speaker 2: super happy. Marriage, now they did go through good, times

652
00:40:39,801 --> 00:40:42,841
Speaker 2: And i'm sure they were happy at, times but this

653
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: does also tredict what we heard About robbie, earlier that

654
00:40:47,081 --> 00:40:50,561
Speaker 2: he had abused his wife in the. End, Though amy

655
00:40:50,641 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: pointed out something That i've, considered which is that these

656
00:40:54,001 --> 00:40:57,881
Speaker 2: teens were not trained, assassins and they were really scared

657
00:40:57,921 --> 00:41:01,361
Speaker 2: when they talked to. Police so if someone else had

658
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: influenced them to do this, killing it seems like they

659
00:41:04,561 --> 00:41:07,521
Speaker 2: would have had no hesitation in turning On Robbie tubbs

660
00:41:07,641 --> 00:41:10,721
Speaker 2: if he in fact masterminded this, shooting but they. DIDN'T

661
00:41:11,521 --> 00:41:13,921
Speaker 2: i do want to talk to these, guys, though because

662
00:41:14,401 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: On Chad kaplaner's, statement the officer who interviewed him did

663
00:41:18,721 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: not record the. Conversation, instead he just typed up and

664
00:41:22,521 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: paraphrased What chad had. Said he noted That chad was

665
00:41:26,041 --> 00:41:28,881
Speaker 2: handcuffed and unable to sign the consent, form saying he

666
00:41:28,921 --> 00:41:33,241
Speaker 2: was aware of his. Rights this to me IS i

667
00:41:33,281 --> 00:41:35,401
Speaker 2: don't want to say, shady but not good. Practice and

668
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,361
Speaker 2: it happened in way too many cases back in the.

669
00:41:37,401 --> 00:41:40,401
Speaker 2: Day we have no idea how long the interview went,

670
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,001
Speaker 2: on if they offered him a. Break what the officer

671
00:41:43,081 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: said to these young, men that's a big problem for.

672
00:41:45,561 --> 00:41:48,801
Speaker 2: Me in the, End Jerry Lee ray was sentenced to

673
00:41:48,841 --> 00:41:53,721
Speaker 2: twenty years in, Prison Chad kaplaner got sixteen. Years after

674
00:41:53,761 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: serving their, time they were released and as far AS i,

675
00:41:57,081 --> 00:42:01,081
Speaker 2: know they are free men. Today, meanwhile The Christina pipkin

676
00:42:01,201 --> 00:42:06,321
Speaker 2: case went, cold especially After sanders. Murder police Suspected Robbie,

677
00:42:06,321 --> 00:42:10,121
Speaker 2: tubbs but there was no physical evidence against. Him but

678
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,001
Speaker 2: by nineteen ninety nine technology for testing physical evidence had advanced.

679
00:42:15,001 --> 00:42:19,401
Speaker 2: Considerably police still had that hair From robbie's former car

680
00:42:19,641 --> 00:42:24,161
Speaker 2: THAN Amc. Eagle they sent it for further forensic testing

681
00:42:24,681 --> 00:42:27,481
Speaker 2: and they announced they had a match that the hair

682
00:42:27,521 --> 00:42:31,161
Speaker 2: that was found Inside Robbie tubb's abandoned car was a

683
00:42:31,241 --> 00:42:40,881
Speaker 2: match To Christina. Pipkin in nineteen ninety, Nine Robbie Dale

684
00:42:40,881 --> 00:42:45,281
Speaker 2: tubbs was arrested in charge With Christina pipkins. Murder prosecutors

685
00:42:45,321 --> 00:42:49,281
Speaker 2: said they were seeking the death. Penalty the trial started

686
00:42:49,321 --> 00:42:52,561
Speaker 2: out in a pretty shocking, manner and it just turned

687
00:42:52,561 --> 00:42:57,561
Speaker 2: into one shocking twist after. Another, first the judge ruled

688
00:42:57,601 --> 00:43:01,041
Speaker 2: That sandra's statement she had made to police About robbie

689
00:43:01,081 --> 00:43:03,841
Speaker 2: allegedly making statements to her about what happened To Christina.

690
00:43:03,841 --> 00:43:07,641
Speaker 2: Pipkin the judge ruled that those were, inadmissible and Obviously

691
00:43:08,041 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: sandra was, dead so even, posthumously the jury would never

692
00:43:13,121 --> 00:43:17,921
Speaker 2: hear From Sandra. Tubbs the, Prosecutor Fletcher long, said, Quote,

693
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,801
Speaker 2: man we'd be walking and talking if she was alive.

694
00:43:20,841 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: Today if we had, that we'd knock those jurors. Dead

695
00:43:23,841 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: but there's no sense crying over spilt milt end. Quote

696
00:43:27,281 --> 00:43:29,361
Speaker 2: just a little side. Note i've noticed that a lot

697
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:34,201
Speaker 2: of these colloquial, prosecutors especially In, arkansas have some very colorful.

698
00:43:34,241 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: Comments BUT i don't know IF i agree with his,

699
00:43:37,561 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: comment because there were some problems With sandra's STATEMENT i

700
00:43:41,081 --> 00:43:44,481
Speaker 2: found out WHEN i was Investigating Rebecca gould's, case and many. Others,

701
00:43:45,001 --> 00:43:47,801
Speaker 2: unfortunately there are a lot of women whose husbands are

702
00:43:47,881 --> 00:43:51,721
Speaker 2: abusive and, violent a lot of women who suspect that

703
00:43:51,841 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: their partner might have been responsible for a. Murder it's

704
00:43:56,521 --> 00:43:59,921
Speaker 2: actually shocking how many violent people are out, there and

705
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:03,441
Speaker 2: how many, people men and, women are victims of intimate partner.

706
00:44:03,561 --> 00:44:07,361
Speaker 2: VIOLENCE i would be wary of the, statement not BECAUSE

707
00:44:07,361 --> 00:44:09,841
Speaker 2: i don't believe. IT i believe That sandra did hear

708
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,001
Speaker 2: him say, that AND i believe she did tell her friend,

709
00:44:12,001 --> 00:44:14,761
Speaker 2: That BUT i would be wary of the statement because

710
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,201
Speaker 2: without seeing exactly what he told her and what the context,

711
00:44:19,321 --> 00:44:22,721
Speaker 2: was there's nothing specific to the crime in that. Statement

712
00:44:22,881 --> 00:44:26,321
Speaker 2: just saying That christina was drowned in a rice stitch

713
00:44:26,481 --> 00:44:30,121
Speaker 2: is not, enough in my, opinion to charge someone with capital. Murder,

714
00:44:30,601 --> 00:44:35,081
Speaker 2: now the fact That robbie Tied sandra up and threatened

715
00:44:35,081 --> 00:44:38,601
Speaker 2: her would seem to make this much more compelling and potentially.

716
00:44:38,681 --> 00:44:42,121
Speaker 2: Dangerous but, again we need to know more about what

717
00:44:42,201 --> 00:44:45,161
Speaker 2: the actual conversation was Between robbie And. Sander we need

718
00:44:45,161 --> 00:44:48,441
Speaker 2: to know what she told the. Police Sandra tubbs case

719
00:44:48,481 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: file now should be open because the murder was. Prosecuted

720
00:44:53,161 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: i've Done foyer request for it AND i will keep you.

721
00:44:55,561 --> 00:45:00,441
Speaker 2: Posted but even Without Sandra tubbs's, statement the, Prosecutor Fletcher

722
00:45:00,481 --> 00:45:03,321
Speaker 2: long felt pretty confident because he had this forensic. Evidence

723
00:45:03,721 --> 00:45:06,321
Speaker 2: he had the hair From robbie's former vehicle that was

724
00:45:06,361 --> 00:45:09,401
Speaker 2: a match To Christina pipkins's, hair which brings me to

725
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,881
Speaker 2: the next shocking. Twist Robbie tubb's family got him an,

726
00:45:14,921 --> 00:45:18,601
Speaker 2: attorney and according To, amy they got him an expensive.

727
00:45:18,641 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: Attorney they took out a second mortgage so that they

728
00:45:21,481 --> 00:45:25,161
Speaker 2: could pay for the defense Attorney Martin, lilly And Martin

729
00:45:25,201 --> 00:45:28,801
Speaker 2: lilly had questions about that forensic. Testing what he said

730
00:45:28,801 --> 00:45:30,801
Speaker 2: in court was he believed there had been a mix

731
00:45:30,881 --> 00:45:34,201
Speaker 2: up at the. Lab he believed that the scientist had

732
00:45:34,241 --> 00:45:38,481
Speaker 2: accidentally compared two samples that were taken From christina's body

733
00:45:38,601 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: to each other and not to the hair found in the.

734
00:45:42,561 --> 00:45:48,201
Speaker 2: Car Martin lily put THE fbi Investigator John, hazen who

735
00:45:48,241 --> 00:45:50,921
Speaker 2: was in charge of shipping the evidence from The arkansas

736
00:45:50,921 --> 00:45:53,881
Speaker 2: Crime lab to THE fbi lab In, quantico on the,

737
00:45:53,881 --> 00:45:57,841
Speaker 2: stand and to cut a long story, short it's pretty,

738
00:45:57,881 --> 00:46:00,601
Speaker 2: technical but it appears there was a difference in labeling

739
00:46:00,641 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: between the state crime lab and THE fbi lab and

740
00:46:03,001 --> 00:46:07,641
Speaker 2: that's where the problem. Began THE fbi lab In quantico

741
00:46:07,841 --> 00:46:10,761
Speaker 2: labeled the hair differently than The Arkansas state Crime. Lab

742
00:46:11,721 --> 00:46:14,441
Speaker 2: John hazen admitted that there might have been a. MISTAKE

743
00:46:17,601 --> 00:46:20,081
Speaker 2: i have such a hard time believing that's even. Possible

744
00:46:20,121 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: how could you compare two identical hairs to each other

745
00:46:23,641 --> 00:46:26,801
Speaker 2: and not realize they came from the same. Person even back,

746
00:46:26,841 --> 00:46:31,921
Speaker 2: Then Fletcher long said that there might be a difference in,

747
00:46:32,001 --> 00:46:35,721
Speaker 2: labeling but that it was not a fundamental. Mistake Martin lily.

748
00:46:35,881 --> 00:46:39,361
Speaker 2: Disagreed he insisted the two hairs that were sent to

749
00:46:39,361 --> 00:46:42,721
Speaker 2: the crime lab were not one From Robbie tubb's car

750
00:46:42,761 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 2: and one from Christ Sina pipkins's. Body he said they

751
00:46:46,001 --> 00:46:49,801
Speaker 2: accidentally sent two samples From christina's, body which of course

752
00:46:50,041 --> 00:46:52,201
Speaker 2: were a match because they came off the same. Person

753
00:46:53,801 --> 00:46:58,401
Speaker 2: lily said in, court, quote it'll blow this case wide,

754
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,081
Speaker 2: open end. Quote and it. Did it all boiled down

755
00:47:02,161 --> 00:47:05,321
Speaker 2: to that. Hair that strand of hair was going to

756
00:47:05,401 --> 00:47:09,761
Speaker 2: decide the entire. Case in the, End Fletcher long admitted

757
00:47:09,801 --> 00:47:12,801
Speaker 2: there had been a fundamental mistake made and that the

758
00:47:12,841 --> 00:47:15,881
Speaker 2: two hairs taken From Christina pipkins's body were compared with

759
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,361
Speaker 2: each other and not with the hair From Robbie tubbs's.

760
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,241
Speaker 2: Car so what happened to the hair From Robbie tubbs's, Car,

761
00:47:22,401 --> 00:47:25,801
Speaker 2: well it had not been. Tested it was still sealed

762
00:47:25,921 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: sitting in an evidence bag at the crime. Lab this

763
00:47:30,361 --> 00:47:33,121
Speaker 2: was a shock in the. Courtroom the judge ordered to

764
00:47:33,201 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: pause in the, case and the judge Gave Fletcher long

765
00:47:36,121 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: and the prosecutors two months to get the testing done

766
00:47:39,641 --> 00:47:43,681
Speaker 2: on the correct. Hair but when they sent the hair

767
00:47:43,801 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: that had been found In robbie's car to THE fbi crime,

768
00:47:46,601 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: lab THE fbi came back with bad. News they said

769
00:47:49,161 --> 00:47:51,401
Speaker 2: there just was not enough genetic material on it to

770
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:56,881
Speaker 2: do the, testing so the prosecutors had. Nothing Robbie tubbs

771
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,121
Speaker 2: was set. Free this case was no lely, prossed meaning

772
00:48:01,161 --> 00:48:04,881
Speaker 2: that they dropped the charges Against Robbie tubbs because of insufficient.

773
00:48:04,921 --> 00:48:09,281
Speaker 2: Evidence but at least according to my, understanding if new

774
00:48:09,321 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: evidence ever came to, light he could be.

775
00:48:11,521 --> 00:48:16,361
Speaker 4: RETRIED i Think arkansas in general is a very and

776
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 4: maybe the Entire United states is very.

777
00:48:18,561 --> 00:48:22,121
Speaker 3: Corrupt i'm thankful That i've never been.

778
00:48:22,201 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: Arrested and That i'm not a poor, person BUT i,

779
00:48:27,521 --> 00:48:31,241
Speaker 4: MEAN i COULDN'T i couldn't afford a high dollar defense.

780
00:48:31,281 --> 00:48:35,761
Speaker 4: Attorney the only reason he was. ABLE i firmly believe

781
00:48:35,761 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 4: the only reason he's not on death row right now

782
00:48:38,881 --> 00:48:42,041
Speaker 4: is because his mom and dad put a second mortgage

783
00:48:42,041 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 4: on their home and that, lawyer because he was dirt

784
00:48:46,721 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 4: for you, know average maybe below, average white. GUY i

785
00:48:51,001 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 4: think they would have real roaded him and never even

786
00:48:54,201 --> 00:48:54,561
Speaker 4: seen it.

787
00:48:54,601 --> 00:49:00,921
Speaker 2: Coming after all, That Robbie tubbs eventually left the. Area

788
00:49:01,721 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: he ended up In, missouri and in twenty thirteen he

789
00:49:05,041 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: made headlines. Again The Tulsa world reported he was part

790
00:49:08,641 --> 00:49:11,841
Speaker 2: of a crime ring that was illegally trafficking paddlefish. Eggs

791
00:49:12,841 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: The Tulsa world reported That robbie seemed surprised when he

792
00:49:16,001 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 2: got charged with this federal crime Because robbie apparently thought

793
00:49:19,481 --> 00:49:22,281
Speaker 2: he would just get a. Ticket according to THE Us

794
00:49:22,361 --> 00:49:26,601
Speaker 2: Attorney's office In, Tulsa robbie pleaded. Guilty he was sentenced

795
00:49:26,601 --> 00:49:28,561
Speaker 2: to six months in, prison and after that he was.

796
00:49:28,641 --> 00:49:32,681
Speaker 2: Released amy AND i have both filed multiple freedom of information,

797
00:49:32,721 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: requests but it's becoming clear that a lot of the

798
00:49:36,081 --> 00:49:39,361
Speaker 2: answers to this case are In. Arkansas we need to

799
00:49:39,401 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: answer several. Questions first of, all we need to know

800
00:49:42,561 --> 00:49:45,881
Speaker 2: exactly How Christina pipkin would have had to walk to

801
00:49:45,881 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: get to that, ditch and was it plausible for her

802
00:49:49,001 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: to walk that distance on her. Own in addition to

803
00:49:51,561 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: figuring out her exact, route we need to talk to

804
00:49:54,561 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: people who were in the neighborhood at the. Time we're

805
00:49:57,161 --> 00:49:59,601
Speaker 2: going to investigate a couple of other people of interest

806
00:49:59,921 --> 00:50:03,921
Speaker 2: who were questioned but apparently never. CHARGED i would also

807
00:50:04,041 --> 00:50:07,201
Speaker 2: really like to talk To Robbie. TUBBS i have no

808
00:50:07,321 --> 00:50:09,881
Speaker 2: idea if he'll talk to. Me amy tells me he

809
00:50:09,921 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 2: lives out in the middle of. NOWHERE i Guess i'm

810
00:50:12,001 --> 00:50:15,681
Speaker 2: going to find. Out this case terrified me and kept

811
00:50:15,721 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: me up at night for a couple of. Reasons first of,

812
00:50:18,561 --> 00:50:22,201
Speaker 2: all it's horrifying that someone could be almost sentenced to

813
00:50:22,281 --> 00:50:25,721
Speaker 2: death based on such a little, evidence evidence, that as

814
00:50:25,721 --> 00:50:29,921
Speaker 2: it turns, out wasn't even. Real it was literally one huge, mistake,

815
00:50:30,081 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: and As amy pointed, out one that probably never would

816
00:50:34,001 --> 00:50:36,921
Speaker 2: have been discovered if the defendant had not been able

817
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,801
Speaker 2: to afford a pricey. Lawyer so how many other cases

818
00:50:40,801 --> 00:50:44,321
Speaker 2: out there have potentially the wrong people behind bars based

819
00:50:44,361 --> 00:50:49,681
Speaker 2: on such catastrophic? Errors and, also in these cases where

820
00:50:49,721 --> 00:50:52,361
Speaker 2: no one is ever successfully prosecuted or where the wrong

821
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,161
Speaker 2: person is potentially in. Prison how many other killers are

822
00:50:56,161 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: out there walking. Free we're going to try to dive

823
00:50:59,601 --> 00:51:03,681
Speaker 2: into the other mysterious Deaths Guardina Cross jones And Geneva.

824
00:51:03,721 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: Smith we're going to try to see if we can

825
00:51:06,041 --> 00:51:09,401
Speaker 2: get any answers about what happened to those children and

826
00:51:09,481 --> 00:51:11,841
Speaker 2: to see if there is a child killer still out

827
00:51:11,841 --> 00:51:17,241
Speaker 2: there Stalking East. Arkansas so once, Again i'm on my

828
00:51:17,281 --> 00:51:23,001
Speaker 2: way To. Arkansas I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen Gone Murder.

829
00:51:23,041 --> 00:51:30,081
Speaker 2: Line Helen Gone Murder line is a production Of school

830
00:51:30,081 --> 00:51:33,121
Speaker 2: Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and narrated by

831
00:51:33,201 --> 00:51:37,241
Speaker 2: Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby. Watts music contributed

832
00:51:37,241 --> 00:51:41,281
Speaker 2: By Ben, Sale executive producers Of Virginia, Prescott Brandon, barr

833
00:51:41,281 --> 00:51:44,281
Speaker 2: And Elsie. Crowley if you have a case you'd like

834
00:51:44,361 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: me and my team to look, into you can reach

835
00:51:46,481 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: out to us at Our Helen Gone Murder line at

836
00:51:48,641 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four. Five

837
00:51:52,601 --> 00:51:56,041
Speaker 2: that's six seven eight seven four, four six one four or.

838
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Speaker 2: Five please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you

839
00:52:00,081 --> 00:52:08,881
Speaker 2: listen to your. Podcasts school Of humans