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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. It is winter break, so we are

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Speaker 1: continuing some Vault episodes this week. This time we're going

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Speaker 1: to give you Part two of our Mystery Cults series.

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Speaker 1: This is part two of four. It originally published three four,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 3: My name is Robert Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick,

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Speaker 3: and we're back with Part two in our discussion of

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Speaker 3: the mystery religions or mystery cults of the ancient Mediterranean.

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Speaker 3: Mystery cult is a category used by scholars to refer

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Speaker 3: to worship systems in the ancient Greco Roman world that

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Speaker 3: we're centered around, powerful in tense experiences of secretive mystic

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Speaker 3: rights revealed only to the cults initiates.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: In Part one of this series, we talked mainly about

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Speaker 3: the historical context of these rights and some about how

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Speaker 3: they overlapped with and differed from the most common religious

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Speaker 3: practices of Greek and Roman polytheism. We also talked about

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Speaker 3: a book that is going to be one of our

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Speaker 3: major background sources in these episodes. That is a book

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Speaker 3: called Mystery Cults in the Ancient World by Hugh Bowden,

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Speaker 3: who is an ancient historian at King's College, London. This

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Speaker 3: book was published by Thamesen Hudson. The edition both Rob

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Speaker 3: and I were reading is the one from twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: There was an older edition before that, and today we

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Speaker 3: wanted to come back and get a little bit deeper

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Speaker 3: into the mysteries by going beyond the general and looking

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Speaker 3: at a couple of specific examples.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like one of the really interesting

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Speaker 1: things about these various mystery cults is that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the mysteries really do remain, like in part because

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Speaker 1: any knowledge that we have of the ancient world is

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Speaker 1: you know, is incomplete at least to some degree. But

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Speaker 1: also these guys were just really good at keeping their

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Speaker 1: mysteries intact in some cases, and what went on behind

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Speaker 1: closed doors like remained behind closed doors, and we just

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Speaker 1: have to speculate regarding the details of what say, initiation

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Speaker 1: rights consisted of and what they meant, both in terms

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Speaker 1: of like personal meaning to the initiate, but also within

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Speaker 1: like the sort of.

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Speaker 4: The larger like worldview of the particular cult.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and we do know a lot of things,

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Speaker 3: especially about the more public aspects of the mystery religions,

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Speaker 3: because they often had a kind of you know, public

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Speaker 3: facing elements and then the hidden elements. And it's particularly

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Speaker 3: those those secretive, hidden elements that you know they are.

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Speaker 3: There are many cases where we still don't really know

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Speaker 3: today what they were about. We may have some claims

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Speaker 3: from the ancient world, we may have some pieces of evidence,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, a lot of mysteries remain.

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Speaker 4: Though.

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Speaker 3: One thing I do want to mention, it's something we

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Speaker 3: got into in the last episode, is a bit of

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Speaker 3: clarification on the role of mystery in mystery religion, because

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Speaker 3: that can be somewhat misleading and could maybe cause people

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Speaker 3: to think about the idea of a mystery cult as

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Speaker 3: a religion where the main goal is to solve a

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Speaker 3: kind of information puzzle. It's like to get the hidden

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Speaker 3: answer to a question, and that really doesn't seem to

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Speaker 3: be what these mystery religions were primarily about. They had

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Speaker 3: very elements that we could absolutely call mysterious. There were

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Speaker 3: secret rights, there were secret sacred objects that were hidden

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Speaker 3: from view, and all you know, you could only see

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Speaker 3: what they were if you were initiated. But the main

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Speaker 3: goal of these religions was, especially as argued by Bowden

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Speaker 3: in this book, we've been talking about not primarily to

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Speaker 3: solve an information puzzle and like learn the secret, but

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Speaker 3: instead that it was to have a profound experience, to

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Speaker 3: take part in these mystic rights, these secret rights that

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Speaker 3: would cause some kind of experience or encounter directly with

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Speaker 3: the power of the gods.

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Speaker 1: So mystery very much in the sense of the Beatles

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Speaker 1: album from sixty seven, The Magical Mystery Tour.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what sense that would be.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it really revolves around a particular

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Speaker 1: puzzle or a particular mystery is there, But it's more,

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Speaker 1: you know, versed in psychedelic weirdness and yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps cryptic meaning. I mean, I am the Walrus, right.

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Speaker 1: What are we to make of this song? What are

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Speaker 1: we to make of the imagery associated with it?

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Speaker 3: I remember way back when I first heard that, I

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Speaker 3: was much younger, and the line about the like yellow

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Speaker 3: custard dripping from a dead dog's eye seemed especially unbeatlesy

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Speaker 3: to me.

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Speaker 1: They get pretty weird, they get pretty weird. There's kind

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Speaker 1: of the Beatles that you think you know and associate

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Speaker 1: with sort of the mainstream understanding of the Beatles, but

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Speaker 1: then you can really dig into some.

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Speaker 3: Weird stuff in there as well, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: But setting aside the mysteries of the Beatles, I would

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Speaker 1: like to turn our attention now to the mysteries of Mithraism.

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Speaker 1: We mentioned, you know, in the last episode. We're talking

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Speaker 1: very much about the Greco Roman world, and this is

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Speaker 1: definitely one from the Roman world.

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Speaker 3: Right, this is one coming later on the scene than

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Speaker 3: most of the other examples we'll end up talking about.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, we're talking the first through the fourth century CE,

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Speaker 1: so it's taking off alongside another brand new religion, that

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Speaker 1: of the way, centered around the teachings of Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: This would of course come to be known as Christianity

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Speaker 1: at least by like one hundred CE. But this is

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Speaker 1: where I should I should throw out that we have

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Speaker 1: of course mentioned Mithraism in passing or in a few

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Speaker 1: details on the show in the past. We mentioned mithra

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Speaker 1: in our Hall of Hell episode as well as in

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Speaker 1: our episodes on Whistling. As I mentioned then, fans of

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Speaker 1: the Ridley Scott produced sci fi series Raised by Wolves,

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Speaker 1: which ran twenty twenty through twenty twenty two. We'll also

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Speaker 1: remember the name as in the fictional future of this series,

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Speaker 1: it is the predominant religion that is practiced by one

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Speaker 1: of the key factions in that show. So sort of

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Speaker 1: like an alternate future where instead of perhaps Christianity taking

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Speaker 1: off as this influential human religion, what if Mithraism is

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Speaker 1: the religion that took off and ended up defining a civilization.

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Speaker 3: Rob, would it be fair to say, based on what

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Speaker 3: you've read that it's kind of shocking how little we

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Speaker 3: know about Mithraism with certainty given how popular it was

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Speaker 3: during its heyday in the Roman Empire.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is something that impressed me as well, because

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about something that was just practiced by

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Speaker 1: say like a few elites, you know, in the basement

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Speaker 1: of a palace here and there, something to that effect,

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Speaker 1: or a few deranged cultists. To sort of imagine the again,

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Speaker 1: the sort of call of Cuthulu dungeons and dragons treatment

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Speaker 1: of colts. Now, this was widely practiced during this time

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Speaker 1: period again, first through fourth century CE, and it was

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Speaker 1: wildly popular, especially in the Roman army and wherever the

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Speaker 1: Roman army went. So too traveled the mystery cult of Mithra,

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Speaker 1: with its temples popping up just throughout the Roman Empire

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Speaker 1: of the time as far north as the British Isles.

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Speaker 1: And we have a surviving archaeological evidence all of these

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Speaker 1: special temples, which we'll get back to in a bit,

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Speaker 1: and we can piece together some of what went on. Now.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting things here that we're going to

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Speaker 1: dig into here is of course, the idea that we

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Speaker 1: have a religion, a cult an organization here, and its

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Speaker 1: ideas are based on pre existing religion ideas, and for

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Speaker 1: a while, the way historians interpreted it was to go

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Speaker 1: back to some of the myths that informed Roman mythraism

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Speaker 1: and use that to try and piece together what Roman

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Speaker 1: mythraism was all about. So I want you to keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind as I read a quote here from

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Speaker 1: an older source. This is from will Durant Caesar and

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Speaker 1: Christ from nineteen forty four, in which he writes that

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Speaker 1: during the period of roughly thirty CE through ninety six CE,

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Speaker 1: one sees a great influx of foreign faiths and Rome

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Speaker 1: and Roman life, and these faiths, he writes, enter into

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Speaker 1: Rome via returning soldiers, war captives and also merchants. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are coming in and out of Rome.

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Speaker 1: People brought their traditional gods with them, and he writes

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Speaker 1: that quote. The Roman government treated these alien faiths for

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Speaker 1: the most part with toleration. Since it would not permit

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Speaker 1: foreigners to its own worship, it preferred that they should

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Speaker 1: practice their imported rights rather than have no religion at all.

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Speaker 1: In return, it required that each new faith should exercise

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Speaker 1: a similar tolerance towards other creeds, and should include in

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Speaker 1: its ritual sum obsessence to the emperor's genius and the

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Speaker 1: goddess Roma as an expression of loyalty to the state.

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Speaker 1: So we touched on this before that. Generally the Romans

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Speaker 1: were like, fine, you practice whatever faith you already had

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Speaker 1: or have or have brought with you. Just make sure

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Speaker 1: that it's you know, checking off the right boxes, and

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Speaker 1: you know, not messing up anything we have going on at.

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Speaker 3: The top, not questioning our authority. I don't think that

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Speaker 3: the Roman rule on this should be seen as generally merciful,

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Speaker 3: because the Roman Empire for the large part, was not

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Speaker 3: very merciful. It was more like they didn't really care

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Speaker 3: about this. Their idea of religion was not an evangelical one,

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Speaker 3: and they were not trying to convince other people to

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Speaker 3: follow it. Instead, it was just like, you need to

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Speaker 3: obey us and not cause problems. Otherwise, practice whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think that's a fair way of understanding it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And we don't need to lean into some idea that

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Speaker 1: the Roman authorities were just in general super tolerant. But

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Speaker 1: in this respect, you know, you can make an argument that, okay,

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Speaker 1: they kind of were, but only because they didn't care

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Speaker 1: what you're doing, as long as you didn't upset the

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Speaker 1: order of things. And in this section of the book

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Speaker 1: by Durant, he does mention Mithra. In Mithraism, he writes,

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Speaker 1: quote from hostile Parthia came the cult of another sudden god, Mithras.

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Speaker 1: Its devotees were enlisted as soldiers in the great cosmic

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Speaker 1: war of light against darkness, of good against evil. It

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Speaker 1: was a virile faith that won men rather than women,

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Speaker 1: and pleased the Roman legions stationed on distant frontiers where

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Speaker 1: where they could hardly hear the voices of their native gods.

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Speaker 1: So already that's a lot to unpack. We have this again,

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Speaker 1: this the nineteen forty four text, but the interpretation that

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Speaker 1: durant here seems to be making is that of a

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Speaker 1: foreign mystery taken up almost exclusively by male Roman soldiers

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Speaker 1: and worshiped in every far flung corner of the Roman

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Speaker 1: controlled territory. Perhaps some deity and faith that casts the

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Speaker 1: role of the enlisted not as mere protectors of Rome,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps as warriors and some sort of epic struggle

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Speaker 1: against the darkness. All right, So that was nineteen forty

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Speaker 1: four's interpretation. But where are we at now? So diving

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Speaker 1: into Hugh Bowden's mystery cults in the ancient world, which

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Speaker 1: we've been looking at here, the author does have a

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Speaker 1: lot to say about Mithraism, but as is often the

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Speaker 1: case with some of these mystery cults, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: we don't know and we'll never know concerning the details

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Speaker 1: of the faith. And it seems like the trend, he says,

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Speaker 1: for a while was to try and use information regarding

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Speaker 1: ancient worship of Mithra in ancient Iran in the interpretations

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Speaker 1: of this Indo Iranian faith as a way to try

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Speaker 1: and figure out what Roman mythri was about. Because, to

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Speaker 1: be clear, there was worship of a deity known as

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Speaker 1: Mithra in ancient Iran and accounts date back to at

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Speaker 1: least fourteen hundred bcee, and then eventually Mithra becomes the

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Speaker 1: central figure of these Roman mystery cults of Mithraism, the

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Speaker 1: details of which again are not all that forthcoming, But

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Speaker 1: we do have some literary references, we have archaeological evidence,

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Speaker 1: some of it fairly recent, and we also have some

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Speaker 1: artistic imagery that has survived. And from this a fair

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Speaker 1: number of conclusions can be drawn. But the current predominant interpretation,

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Speaker 1: according to Bowden, is that the cult of Mithra in

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Speaker 1: the Roman Empire was something mostly new. It was for

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Speaker 1: the most part for Romans and by Romans, despite these

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Speaker 1: Persian motifs that were applied to it. So in previous decades, again,

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Speaker 1: it was common for historians to try and piece together

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Speaker 1: the details of Mithraism, based in part on aspects of

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Speaker 1: the ancient Indo Orraean religion centered around Mithra, but current

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Speaker 1: trends tend to dismiss this. So in Bowden's chapter on Mithrasm,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't mention anything about soldiers of light against darkness.

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Speaker 1: I'm to assume that perhaps that's something that previously historians

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Speaker 1: drug in from the more ancient model of Mithra's worship.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can very much see the appeal of

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Speaker 3: that older interpretive lens, which tries to figure out what

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Speaker 3: a religion means by searching out the earliest versions of it,

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Speaker 3: because we tend to think about the primacy of originals,

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Speaker 3: like originals in time. You know, we've talked about this

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Speaker 3: coming up before on the podcast when we were talking

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Speaker 3: about Greek myths. We're trying to find, like, what's the

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Speaker 3: earliest written version of this so that we can know

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Speaker 3: what the real version of the myth is, you know,

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Speaker 3: but that's not actually the real version of the myth.

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Speaker 3: And finding maybe the earliest version that was written down

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Speaker 3: that we still have access to and does not tell

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Speaker 3: you how people hundreds of years later in a different

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Speaker 3: time and place understood the story or what it meant.

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Speaker 3: It just you know that, I mean, it is worth

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Speaker 3: knowing that tells you one thing, but it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: tell you that thing. And so searching out myth what

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Speaker 3: a god or a religious figure meant in one time

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Speaker 3: and place, even though it came earlier, that doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: tell you what it meant to people in a different time,

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Speaker 3: in a different place. And I think this is still

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Speaker 3: true today. I think, actually, say, if you just went

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Speaker 3: to the New Testament and read the Gospels and then

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Speaker 3: tried to read from those and predict what form Christianity

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Speaker 3: would take as practiced, say in the United States in

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Speaker 3: the twenty first century, you'd be so far off you

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Speaker 3: have no idea what to predict from that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think we can point to examples of

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Speaker 1: this and other major religions as well, and also elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: Like I instantly thought to Dracula, perhaps because I had

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Speaker 1: Dracula on the mind a lot recently. But it's like,

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Speaker 1: imagine you were to examine the text known as Dracula

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Speaker 1: three thousand. Let's see what year did Dracula three thousand

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Speaker 1: come out?

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Speaker 3: Do you think I know off the top of my head.

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Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I expect you to two thousand and four.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, okay, that sounds right.

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Speaker 1: So imagine you watch a Dracula three thousand and then

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Speaker 1: you were like, I wish to understand what this film

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Speaker 1: is trying to say. I am going to read this

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Speaker 1: book by Brian Stoker, Dracula, and that shall answer all

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Speaker 1: my questions. I can take everything is in that book

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Speaker 1: and apply it to this movie and me yeah, to

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Speaker 1: a certain extent, there might be some useful connections to

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Speaker 1: be made there, But Dracula. Dracula movies are all built

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Speaker 1: around the central figure of Dracula, but the textual Dracula

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Speaker 1: in brim Stoker's original novel might not prove all that useful.

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Speaker 1: And understanding some depictions of Dracula in other media, including

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Speaker 1: Bell Lagosi's Dracula, which we discussed in Weird Howse Cinema recently,

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Speaker 1: or say Marvel Comics Dracula, The Dracula and Dracula three

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Speaker 1: thousand or or whatever Dracula update you're looking at. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know, a Dracula movie may just take Dracula out

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Speaker 1: of it and they're just ignoring everything else thematically, plot wise,

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Speaker 1: time period and so forth, Like the Dracula in Monster

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Speaker 1: Squad is only loosely related to the original novel.

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Speaker 3: That's right. So it may in fact be a very

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Speaker 3: interesting exercise to see which elements from the older version

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Speaker 3: are poured it into the newer version and which are

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Speaker 3: left behind. So it's not like it is useless to

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Speaker 3: compare the versions, but it is not necessary. But understanding

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Speaker 3: the earlier version does not necessarily tell you what to

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Speaker 3: expect in the newer version. Say, if we had pages

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Speaker 3: missing from the you know, all we had was like

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Speaker 3: an incomplete script of Dracula three thousand. We didn't have

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Speaker 3: the movie, and we were trying to figure out what

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Speaker 3: was still in there. Going back to the novel Dracula

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Speaker 3: would not tell us, right.

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Speaker 1: And that would be again, assuming that all all adaptations

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Speaker 1: of Dracula and all Dracula media still holds the original

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Speaker 1: novel in some regard or looks to it in some fashion.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can look at all the various examples though,

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Speaker 1: of religions where there is some sort of old text

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Speaker 1: that remains important and the particular like model of that

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Speaker 1: religion may still be unrecognizable across time, even though it's

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Speaker 1: based on the book. And in the case of Roman mythraism,

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Speaker 1: I'm not it's my understanding that we're not really dealing

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Speaker 1: with any kind of like central texts that would have

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Speaker 1: been the authority. The main authority would have been perhaps

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Speaker 1: some collection of myths, but also a modern understanding of astrology.

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Speaker 1: And so it really sounds like it takes mithra It

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Speaker 1: takes this Indo Iranian deity and then creates a new

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Speaker 1: form out of it, you know, almost kind of like

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Speaker 1: propping up some astrological ideas with the appeal of this

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Speaker 1: foreign deity and again creating something new that is by

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Speaker 1: Romans for Romans, likely with its origin according to Bowden,

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Speaker 1: in Italy, if not in Rome itself rather than the frontiers.

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Speaker 1: It was then carried out to the frontiers by Roman soldiers.

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Speaker 1: M okay, So, based on what the evidence we do

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Speaker 1: have regarding Roman Mythriism, which again involves some texts, some

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Speaker 1: archaeological evidence, and also some artistic depictions, the cult would

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Speaker 1: have met in special cave like and sometimes partially cave

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Speaker 1: based chambers. These were called mithraeum. They were long windowless

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Speaker 1: rectangles with chairs or seating down the long walls of

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Speaker 1: the chamber and so again no windows, so you just

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Speaker 1: had to depend on torches and or candles, and these

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Speaker 1: would have illuminated a strongly astrological decor so based on

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Speaker 1: archaeological evidence, the exclusively male devotees of Mithriism would often

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Speaker 1: join together, apparently in feasts that included a lot of meat,

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Speaker 1: some wine, and I have to note that I'm already

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Speaker 1: getting like a very strong Elks Club vibe here. You know,

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Speaker 1: it sounds just like a men's club where they're all

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Speaker 1: getting together to drink and eat meat and maybe observe

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Speaker 1: some rites.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you can experience the power of the

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Speaker 3: gods and just drink with your bros at the same time,

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Speaker 3: that's a good two for one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the astrological decor here would have included depictions

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Speaker 1: of the Sun is vitally important because Mithra is, even

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Speaker 1: in Roman mythriism.

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Speaker 4: A solar deity or a solar figure.

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Speaker 1: You have the Moon, the planets all coming together in

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Speaker 1: what we might think of as an astrological model of

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Speaker 1: the universe, and Balden argues that in the absence of

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Speaker 1: any key surviving text and only a few myths of

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Speaker 1: Mithra and his adventures slash live slash mythic existence, modern

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Speaker 1: understanding of astrology again like this would have been first

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Speaker 1: through third century understanding of the stars and then the

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Speaker 1: astrological model of how these stars and planets are impacting

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Speaker 1: our lives. This would have likely served as the unifying

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Speaker 1: factor of the religion across its various far flung forms.

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Speaker 1: You'd see some changes in the way things were depicted,

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Speaker 1: but in the absence of any kind of like top

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Speaker 1: down doctrine. This is what you had, and so a mithraem. Again,

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Speaker 1: the temple where the mithra worshipers held their ceremonies and

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Speaker 1: their feasts. It likely the building itself likely served as

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Speaker 1: a model, perhaps for further indoctrinization into the astrological secrets

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Speaker 1: of Mithraism, but also as a model of the universe

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Speaker 1: and the initiate place in it, which I think that

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Speaker 1: alone is kind of interesting to think of in terms

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Speaker 1: of soldiers in the Roman army, you know, perhaps very close,

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Speaker 1: if not on the frontiers of this, you know, this

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Speaker 1: vast region, and perhaps feeling far from home and having

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Speaker 1: some you know, maybe more specific thoughts and questions about

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Speaker 1: where I am in time and space, but perhaps those

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Speaker 1: are echoing, you know, greater questions, and maybe that's where

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Speaker 1: Mithraism comes into their lives with meaning. Now again we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of evidence, archaeological evidence about what may

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Speaker 1: have gone on at some of the feasts that they had.

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Speaker 1: There's at least one side in what is now Belgium

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Speaker 1: from the third century that suggests ritual destruction of wine

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Speaker 1: vessels as well as feasting. I think they said that

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Speaker 1: perhaps feasting exclusively on male animals, but also some eels

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Speaker 1: that Abouten points out they might not have been able

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Speaker 1: to sex the eels. Maybe they meant it me eat

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Speaker 1: only male eels as well, but at any rate, they

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Speaker 1: ate a lit meat, they drank and or ritually destroyed

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Speaker 1: wine vessels. And then he also says that there's evidence

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Speaker 1: at this one side, no other side, of a wine

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Speaker 1: vessel with a snake motif that when heated, would have

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Speaker 1: resulted in steam escaping from the serpent's mouth. Oh cool, yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty cool. Yeah, but we don't know what that may

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Speaker 1: or may not mean. Maybe it was just cool.

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Speaker 3: Well. I don't want to comment on Mithraism specifically, but

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Speaker 3: with respect to many of the mystery religions, I think

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Speaker 3: cool on its own may have been reason enough. Again,

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Speaker 3: a lot of these cults I think you could think

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Speaker 3: of as being oriented towards producing profound, exciting, dazzling sensory experiences.

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Speaker 3: And so I don't know, a snake breathing out wine

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Speaker 3: steam that seems like that could be one of those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I should also point out that I

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Speaker 1: believe the Belgium site indicates the potential potentially a large

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Speaker 1: feast like something like hundreds of individuals. But for the

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Speaker 1: most part, the mythraem were understood to be you know,

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Speaker 1: smaller places where you would have a more intimate gathering,

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Speaker 1: and if there were and you might have like more

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Speaker 1: than one mithram in a given area, so that you

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Speaker 1: could keep the number small, so that that might also

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Speaker 1: stack up with some of how we're interpreting what these

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Speaker 1: spaces and these meetings could have meant to these individuals.

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Speaker 1: You know, it would have perhaps been a smaller, comfortable

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Speaker 1: meeting and not necessarily like a grand feast, all right.

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Speaker 1: So but obviously it can't all be cozy feasts, right

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Speaker 1: because as we as we've been discussing, mystery cults also

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Speaker 1: involved at times harrowing rights of initiation, sites and sounds

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Speaker 1: that were unique in life that gave you some insight

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Speaker 1: into the inner workings of the universe or the afterlife

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Speaker 1: or what have you. And as Bowden points out, there

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Speaker 1: were apparently some rights involved here. So there were like

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Speaker 1: seven grades of Mithraism, and it's likely that each initiate

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Speaker 1: that each grade of Mithraism involved a different ritual, But

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Speaker 1: we do know a little bit about the rituals that

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Speaker 1: were involved. Most notably one that involves a sword and

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Speaker 1: a crown. For instance, a Christian writer Tertullian, who lived

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Speaker 1: roughly one through two twenty ce mentions a mithra and

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Speaker 1: right by which the initiate is taken into a dark space. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the mithraem and offered a crown at sword point, and

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Speaker 1: then he is expected to strike the crown from their

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Speaker 1: own head onto their own shoulders and proclaim that no

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Speaker 1: mithra is my crown. I do not need any other

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Speaker 1: crown but mithra and. Based on surviving frescoes and some

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Speaker 1: evidence from some pottery, we also have some vague ideas

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Speaker 1: that the initiate would have been brought into this ritual

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Speaker 1: space bound and naked, or at least a blindfolded and naked,

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Speaker 1: and then made a kneel for the placement of the crown,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually made to lay upon the ground or

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Speaker 1: the floor of the mithram, perhaps held down even And

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Speaker 1: the general interpretation is indeed that this, at least this

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Speaker 1: grades initiation would have been rather terrifying. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: at sword point, You're naked, brought in blindfolded again into

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Speaker 1: a space that is either a cave or partially a cave,

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Speaker 1: or at least designed to be as lightless as a

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Speaker 1: cave and lit only by torches, with also these added

432
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: astrological signs around you.

433
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: It's funny, especially in this version, thinking about the comparisons

434
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: we have two more recent things in our own culture,

435
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: Like this strikes me as part religious ritual but also

436
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 3: just part fraternity initiation.

437
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me. I can't help but think of

438
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: the episode of The Simpsons with a hither the Stonecutters

439
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: stonecutters still Yeah, yeah, with the very all the different

440
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: initiation rights that were all essentially just ritually spanking each other.

441
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: I mean, in our culture, when that is depicted in

442
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: media and storytelling, it's usually played for comedy. Now, it's

443
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 3: kind of mocking the silliness of this, but I think

444
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 3: there are some pretty profound psychological reasons why, you know,

445
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: why a lot of brotherhoods or groups that are encouraging

446
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: people to form a deep bond and commit to secrecy

447
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: and things like that, why they involve painful and confusing

448
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 3: initiation processes. And we'll talk about that more as we

449
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: go on and discuss some of these other mystery religions.

450
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 3: But it seems like not an accident to me, like

451
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: there's a kind of psychological triggering mechanism involved where when

452
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 3: you've been through some kind of pain and suffering it

453
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: for some reason triggers you to commit more deeply.

454
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we just pretend to to threaten to

455
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: kill you with the sword, but now we're all bros

456
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: and we can have some wines and meat that sort

457
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: of thing. That's again oversimplification of what's going on here,

458
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: but we can't help withdraw those comparisons. So at the

459
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: center of all this, we still have this solar deity

460
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: of sorts, this Mithra, at once the Sun itself and

461
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: also seemingly a servant of a greater Sun god, perhaps

462
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: born out of an eggs. I think a little unsure

463
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: in some of these depictions, like if Mithra is supposed

464
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: to be emerging from an egg or maybe it's the sun,

465
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: and then Mithra rises to chase the lunar bull with

466
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: a sword and eventually slay it, and that's where we

467
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: get to that symbol.

468
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is one of the main motifs I was

469
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 3: familiar with, not really knowing that much about mythraism, but

470
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 3: I knew that there were artistic motifs that involved a

471
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: sort of fight or struggle with a giant bull, or

472
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: maybe being killed by a bull or killing the bull.

473
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: Yes, this is the Taroctiny and it is this recurring

474
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: visual motif of Mythraism. In it we see the unconquered

475
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: sun god Mithra dressed in a cloak and what is described.

476
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't think he's wearing this in every depiction, but

477
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: at least it is more prominent in some a Persian

478
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: style hat, and he is grappling a bull and stabbing

479
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: it through the neck with his sword. At the same time,

480
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: a scorpion is stinging the bulls testicles, and a dog

481
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: and a snake are drinking blood from the sword wound. Okay,

482
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: All while a sun watches on a moon watches on.

483
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: There are also two figures that are present that each

484
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: have a torch, and they're sometimes part of this is too.

485
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: One is holding the torch high, one holding the torch low.

486
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: Everything is very astrologically charged here, with these different symbols

487
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: having you know, zodiac references entailed. The central idea here, though,

488
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: which may not have been revealed or apparent to all

489
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: adherents to Mithraism, is that it has to do with

490
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: the position of the sun and the constellation Taurus during

491
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: the hottest months of.

492
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 4: The year late July till late August.

493
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: So Balden contends that some elements of this faith may

494
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: have originally originated in Eastern Anatolia, but the cult of

495
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: Mithraism is again likely originated itself largely in Italy and

496
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: likely within Rome, and was then taken out to the

497
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: far flung frontiers by Roman soldiers. So and it's also

498
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: telling that apparently, despite its foreign elements and inspirations uite

499
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: clear inspirations, it was likely considered a very Roman thing

500
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: to do, and ultimately it backs up and acknowledges Roman ideals,

501
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: and so it likely attracted initiates who wanted to be

502
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: more Roman, including foreigners in Rome, which is interesting to

503
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: think of. It may have offered some degree of social

504
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: wors upward mobility, but it also doesn't seem to have

505
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: offered any notion of privileged status in the afterlife, but

506
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: instead likely leaned heavily on an astrology fueled understanding of

507
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: where one stood in the world and maybe in the

508
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: universe in the larger sense. I mean, this is just

509
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: me spitballing here. But it does like all these elements

510
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: they do. They do sound like the things that might

511
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: be created by people who are having a certain crisis

512
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: about like who they are and where they belong in

513
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: the world. That might fit in in an empire that

514
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: is expanding at the same time, absorbing different elements, you know.

515
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: And then this, this structure of this cult is built

516
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: out to sort of give you some level of assurance

517
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: and say, no, no, no, don't worry. We know a lot

518
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: about the movements of the stars and the planets, and

519
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: no matter how you know, crazy, everything else is getting

520
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: out there, like this can tell you exactly where you

521
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: are and who you are in the grand scheme of things.

522
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the meaning is written in the sky. Yeah.

523
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: But at the same time, also like, hey, this thing's

524
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: pretty popular. I want to fit in. I should probably

525
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: go to this too. I hear they sometimes have meat

526
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: and wine, so you know, I think you have to

527
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: factor all these different ideas into it. But it does

528
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: sound like the initiation rituals could be very terrifying, at

529
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: least based on the way that I am interpreting it.

530
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: And it seems like Bowden and others have interpreted maybe

531
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: it was played just for giggles, but I doubt it

532
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: based on so based on the comparisons we have in

533
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: other mystery cults.

534
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of other cults, that would interface perfectly with

535
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: things that people in the ancient world wrote about. The

536
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: next example that I want to talk about. I don't

537
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: know if we'll have a chance to explore everything about

538
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: these in today's episode with the time we've got left,

539
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: but we can at least start talking about the Elusinian Mysteries,

540
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 3: probably the most famous mystery cult of the Greek world.

541
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: Now we know about the Eleusinian Mysteries from a number

542
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: of sources of information, primarily from what ancient authors wrote

543
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: about them, including from literature that that attempts to describe

544
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: things about them directly, but then also from literature that

545
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: makes oblique or incidental reference to them. And it turns

546
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: out there's a lot of the latter. I mean, there

547
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 3: will just there will just be little dialogues of Plato

548
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 3: where you know, Socrates says something that implies a certain

549
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: understanding of what the Eleusinian mysteries meant, but is not

550
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: meaning to talk about them directly, not like here, let's

551
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 3: have a discourse about them.

552
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: That's another thing I guess it's interesting, too important to

553
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: realize and discussions. It's like there's there's stuff that is

554
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: forgot because it was secret, and there's also plenty of

555
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: things that were forgotten because it was just common knowledge.

556
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: Why would you write that down?

557
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Also, apart from the ancient written sources, we

558
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 3: have some physical archaeological remains, especially at el Usis, the

559
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: cult center, including artworks that depict elements of the associated myth.

560
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: One example of the latter is a marble fragment from

561
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: the sanctuary of Demeter at Eleusis, of which there are

562
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 3: copies from scattered about from the Roman period as well.

563
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: But Raba included an image in our outline for you

564
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: to look at this marble relief. It shows the goddesses

565
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 3: Demeter and Persephone standing on either side of a nude

566
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: young man, and they are just towering over the sky.

567
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: They're much bigger than he is. The youth is thought

568
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 3: to probably be a figure named Tryptolemus, who is a

569
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: figure in mythology sent by Demeter to teach agriculture to

570
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: the people, sort of a kind of an intermediary prometheus

571
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: of grain in a way. And one interesting thing about

572
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: this marble relief you're looking at, rob is that the

573
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 3: Demeter and Persephone here are They're like holding their hands

574
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 3: out as if they're each holding something out to this

575
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: naked man, and their marble fingers probably originally held some

576
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 3: kind of object, but that object or those objects are

577
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 3: gone and we don't know what they were. Oh hell,

578
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 3: so some basic facts to ground us about the Eleusinian mysteries.

579
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: They were based out of a city called Eleusis, which

580
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 3: was located in the region of Attica, only about twenty

581
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: three kilometers west of the city of Athens, so pretty

582
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 3: close to the city of Athens and also close to

583
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: another important ancient city called Megara. The myth associated with

584
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: the mystic rights of Eleusis is a version of the

585
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 3: story of Demeter and Persephone. Now, as with most of

586
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: the big Greek myths, there are multiple versions of this

587
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: story in circulation, with lots of differences in the narrative.

588
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: So I am specifically going to be talking about the

589
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 3: version of the story found in the Greek hymn or

590
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 3: poem known as the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, which was

591
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: written in dactylic hexameter probably sometime between six fifty and

592
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 3: five fifty BCE, and this is the take on the

593
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: story that seems to directly implicate the city of el Usis.

594
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 3: So in this myth, Demeter, the Greek goddess of agriculture

595
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 3: in the Harvest, has a daughter with the god Zeus,

596
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 3: and in a lot of versions of the story the

597
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: daughter is named Persephone, but in the version of the

598
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: story told at Eleusis, the daughter is referred to only

599
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 3: as Corey, Corey or core Kore, meaning maiden. So core

600
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 3: and Persephone are basically the same character. But I'm going

601
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 3: to use core in my telling here because of the

602
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 3: Elusinian connection. So the trouble begins in the story when Zeus,

603
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: without the consent of Demeter, allows his brother Hades, the

604
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: god of the underworld and the king of the Dead,

605
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: to kidnap Demeter's daughter core while she is out gathering

606
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 3: flowers upon a plain, and Hades takes her away to

607
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 3: his subterranean kingdom of the dead. When Demeter finds out

608
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: that her daughter is missing, she spends nine days scouring

609
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 3: the earth, scouring the face of the earth in grief,

610
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 3: searching for her daughter by torchlight. It's mentioned that she

611
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: carries a torch, and eventually a couple of other gods,

612
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 3: Hecate and Helios, tell Demeter what happened, and so here

613
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 3: we get to the part involving the city of Eleusis. Demeter,

614
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: disgusted with Zeus and with the gods for allowing this

615
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 3: to happen to her daughter. She leaves Mount Olympus, disguises

616
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: herself as a human, and then walks all over the world,

617
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 3: and eventually she ends up in the city of Eleusis,

618
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: where she meets the family of a king named King Celius,

619
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 3: and she is hired to work for the king's family

620
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 3: as a nurse. Now, in Bowden's retelling of this myth,

621
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 3: there are a number of great details here that are

622
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 3: very cryptic to the modern reader and sort of fascinating.

623
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: For this reason. I love little details where it's like,

624
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 3: why include that, what does that mean? So it says

625
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: that she is invited into the house of the family

626
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: of King Celias. She has offered a chair to sit,

627
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: but says no, no, no, I'll just sit on this

628
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 3: stool covered in a fleece instead, And then she is

629
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 3: offered a cup of wine, but she refuses the wine

630
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: and instead accepts a type of beverage. It's a beverage

631
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: or perhaps a gruel, the name of which in Greek

632
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 3: is spelled k y k e n kai kion, but

633
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: I've heard it pronounced as kukion, so I'm gonna say kukon.

634
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: It is made of water, grain, and herbs. Bowden specifies

635
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 3: that the grain is barley and the herb is mint.

636
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: So think of a kind of beverage or gruel made

637
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: with barley, water and mint.

638
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: Could be good, could be good, good, be could be

639
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: rather refreshing.

640
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 3: Remember that drink. It may not be till the next

641
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: episode that it comes back, but it will factor in.

642
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 3: At elusis also in here. It says that Demeter smiles

643
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 3: at a joke made by a woman named Iambi. Anyway,

644
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 3: Demeter in disguise is hired to nurse the newborn prince

645
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 3: in this household. The newborn prince is named Demophoon, but

646
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: instead of feeding him each night in secret, she anoints

647
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 3: him with ambrosia and then exposes him to the fire

648
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: in the hearth. And there's a reason for this. This

649
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 3: is a process she's doing to make the boy eventually immortal,

650
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 3: So she's sort of transforming this baby into a god. However,

651
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 3: it doesn't work because one night, Demeter Intos gets caught.

652
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 3: She gets caught in the middle of doing this by Metanira,

653
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 3: Demophoon's mother, who screams in terror, which you can understand

654
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: why that would happen, but Demeter. Demeter is not happy

655
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: about this. She explains what she was doing, and she says,

656
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: you know now that the spell is broken. Now that

657
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 3: you've caught me, Demophoon cannot become immortal. And Demeter is

658
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 3: very angered by this reversal, and she says, Okay, what

659
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: you've got to do now to appease me is build

660
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 3: me a temple. Build a temple to me in Elyusis,

661
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 3: and I will teach you sacred rights that you need

662
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 3: to do in my honor in order to keep me

663
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: from getting really mad. Next, and I mentioned this in

664
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 3: the last episode, Demeter says, all grain on Earth is

665
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: going to stop growing right now. This is bad for humans,

666
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: obviously because we need that to eat, but it's also

667
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: bad for the gods because they need to receive grain

668
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 3: as sacrifices from humans. So it seems like this finally

669
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: gets Zeus to do something about the problem that he created.

670
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 3: He's like Demeter, what can I do to make you happy?

671
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 3: And Demeter says, give me my daughter back, and so

672
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: Zeus agrees. He sends the messenger god Hermes to Hades

673
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 3: to the underworld to tell him that Corey the Maiden

674
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: must be allowed to return to the world above, But

675
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 3: Hades has a trick up his sleeve. Before Corey leaves,

676
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: he gives her a pomegranate seed, a pomegranate seed from

677
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 3: the underworld, and she eats it, and now having eaten

678
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: the food of the underworld, she is ensnared. She cannot

679
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 3: permanently leave, and while she's free to spend two thirds

680
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: of the year up above, she has to return to

681
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: the land of the dead for one third of each year.

682
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: And this myth is often linked to seasonal cycles of

683
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: growth in agriculture, though not necessarily with the seasons you're

684
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: thinking of. I think the natural way that most people

685
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: would interpret it is okay, so you know, the dog

686
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 3: of the grain goddess. She can come up to the

687
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 3: upper world during the you know, the spring and the summer,

688
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 3: the warm months, and then in the winter when the

689
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 3: when the plants die after the harvest, she disappears into

690
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: the underworld. That may be it, but actually Bowden says

691
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: it could be the other way around, because in Greece,

692
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: the hottest part of the summer was sort of often

693
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 3: the least productive agricultural season because things would be very dry,

694
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: and the winter was actually used as a it was

695
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 3: a very productive agricultural season, and so maybe sort of

696
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: that way around instead of the way we naturally think.

697
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 3: But however it actually lines up with the seasonal timeline.

698
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: It's clear to understand why this myth has agricultural significance anyway.

699
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 3: At the end of the myth, after being comforted by

700
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 3: her own mother Raya, who is one of the Titans,

701
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 3: Demeter allows the grain to grow again, and then Demeter,

702
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: as she promised, comes back to the people of Eleusis

703
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 3: to teach them the mysteries. She teaches them special rights

704
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: that they would have to do in her honor. And

705
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: then I want to read from What follows is a

706
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: translation of a passage in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter,

707
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: the version that appears in Bowden's book. So it goes,

708
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 3: so the whole broad earth grew heavy with leafage and bloom,

709
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 3: and she went to the lawgiver kings Tryptolemus and horse

710
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 3: goating Diocles, strong Eumolpus, and Celius, leader of hosts, and

711
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 3: showed them the conduct of her sacred matters, and taught

712
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 3: her solemn rights, which one cannot depart from, or inquire

713
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: about or broadcast, for great awe of the gods restrains

714
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 3: us from speaking. Blessed is he of men on earth

715
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 3: who has beheld them, whereas he that is uninitiated in

716
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 3: the rights, or he that has no part in them,

717
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 3: never enjoys a similar lot down in the musty dark

718
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 3: when he is dead.

719
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

720
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: So first of all, I love that this is not

721
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: from Yeah. And then but then also, unlike seemingly with

722
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: our example of mythraism, this mystery cult does seem to

723
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: impart some sort of privileged knowledge of and or destination

724
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: in the afterlife.

725
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: It does, but I want to complicate that with something

726
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 3: in just a minute here. So yeah, so many interesting

727
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: things going on here. The goddess teaches the people of

728
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 3: elusis the secret rituals, says you cannot depart from these rituals,

729
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 3: so don't change them, don't give them up. You cannot

730
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: ask questions about them. No talking no questioning, and you

731
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 3: cannot talk about them with the uninitiated. You've got to

732
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 3: keep them a secret only to the people who have

733
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: been initiated to the cult. And of course, if you

734
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 3: are initiated and you get to witness these rights, you

735
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 3: are blessed. If you are not initiated and know nothing

736
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: of the mysteries, then you are not blessed, and you

737
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: will apparently have a worse fate in Hades down in

738
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: the musty don't and if I'm interpreting this right, it

739
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 3: does not say that those who have been blessed by

740
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: witnessing the rights will not go to Hades instead. It

741
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 3: just seems like something is going to be different from them.

742
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: You know, it's going to be better for you. Now

743
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 3: to explore that a little more, this last part about

744
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: the effect of initiation to the mystic rights on a

745
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 3: person's lot in the afterlife. That is a major part

746
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 3: of how mystery cults have been understood by later scholars.

747
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 3: It was, i think, once widely held that the mystery

748
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: cults of the reco Roman world were mainly about improving

749
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 3: a person's lot in the afterlife. But Bowden argues that

750
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 3: at least in some cases, The evidence is this was

751
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,439
Speaker 3: not a major focus of the rights, and that any

752
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: belief that you would have a better or afterlife by

753
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 3: having been initiated was more of a side effect of

754
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 3: having achieved a special closeness or direct encounter with the

755
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: gods through the mysteries. It was not the primary goal

756
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: or function of the mysteries. So we don't have evidence

757
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 3: that the goal was like to go to heaven by

758
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 3: doing these rituals. It was just kind of like there

759
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 3: were blessings and good things about having this mystic encounter,

760
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 3: about going through the rights, and one of the things

761
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 3: that came with it in some cases was that it's

762
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 3: said that something is better for you after you die.

763
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: Okay, so again, it's not that you're going to get

764
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: a better treatment in the afterlife. It's something maybe a

765
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: little more sublime. Hear me out. I don't know if

766
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: this is a good idea, a good one. It may

767
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: not be a good idea. Maybe it's not a good analogy.

768
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: But imagine you're going to go see the Android Lloyd

769
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: Weber musical Cats, and beforehand, someone who is wise and

770
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: knowledgeable comes to you and says, before you go, read

771
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: this nineteen thirty nine poetry collection Old Possum's Book of

772
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: Practical Cats by T. S. Elliott, Because of course these

773
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: are the poems that the musical is based upon. And

774
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: you might then ask, oh, if I read this, will

775
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: I have better seats? No, you will not have better

776
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: seats based on reading this, but perhaps you'll understand the

777
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: musical more, or you'll have some deeper connection with the musical,

778
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: and that will enhance the experience of it. Something to

779
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: that effect, as opposed to like, will this secret knowledge

780
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: actually get me closer to the front or give me

781
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 1: more legrom.

782
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that may well be a good analogy, except again,

783
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 3: it would not be about reading anything in particular here.

784
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: It would be like about having the experience. Maybe instead

785
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: it's like should you go to see the play? Like

786
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 3: that's really the thing that it's more like, isn't it.

787
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 3: It's like going to take part in and witness something

788
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: kind of be part of a collaborative theatrical experience. But yeah,

789
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 3: I think that's a good way of thinking about it,

790
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: because I want to read another thing that an ancient

791
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: source that Bowden mentions in the book. So you know,

792
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 3: many ancient authors, as we talked about last time, are

793
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: unable or unwilling to profane the cult of the Eleusinian

794
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 3: mysteries by sharing the secrets of its hidden rights, so

795
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: we don't get You know, many ancient sources where people

796
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: are like trying to tell us what happened inside the

797
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 3: inside the secret chamber, but multiple writers attest to the

798
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 3: power of the mysteries and the positive effect they had

799
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 3: on those initiated. One of those passages cited in Bowden

800
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: is from the Greek anthology by Crnagoras, published that was

801
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 3: written in the first century BCE, and what Crnagoras says

802
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 3: is quote, even if yours has always been a sedentary life,

803
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: and you have never sailed the sea nor walked the

804
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: roads of the land, you should nevertheless go to Attica

805
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 3: so that you may witness those nights of the festival

806
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: of Great Demeter. For then your heart may be free

807
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 3: of care while you live, and lighter when you go

808
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: to the land of the dead. Oh wow, yeah, So

809
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: whatever happens, it is said by many to be a

810
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 3: powerful experience that is perceived as life altering in a

811
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 3: good way. For a modern comparison, when you read some

812
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: of these ancient passages where people talk like this, It's

813
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: kind of like how some psychedelic evangelists talk about taking

814
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 3: LSD for the first time, Like you realize your cares

815
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 3: and anxieties are meaningless, you lose your fear of death.

816
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 3: Maybe things like that. It's also kind of the way

817
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 3: sometimes people talk about contemplative practices or experiences that they

818
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: believe are spiritually important, like meditation. Though the way the

819
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 3: mysteries are described it is a much less regular and

820
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 3: more high intensity experience than meditation usually is, I guess,

821
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 3: but similar kind of descriptions of like a way of

822
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 3: opening the mind, of changing your relationship to life. Your

823
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 3: heart is lighter, and you can be lighter when you

824
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 3: go to the land of the dead.

825
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in some ways, I'm reminded of going

826
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: to a haunted attraction here in our modern world, you know,

827
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: go to a haunted house around Halloween, where the various

828
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: actors and various tricks will be utilized to scare you

829
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: and give you a good laugh. I mean, it is

830
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: like a sensory overload experience. And granted it has no

831
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: it has no religious agenda.

832
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 4: Well I take that back. Sometimes it does have a religious.

833
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: Agenda, but there are those Yeah, But in general, it

834
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: does the idea of just scaring you doesn't have a

835
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: religious agenda. But now that I've accidentally mentioned it, I

836
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: am reminded Youah, maybe there's a case to be made

837
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: that like church themed or orchestrated haunted attractions like small

838
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: town affairs are kind of in keeping with mystery cults

839
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: to some degree. I guess based on my experience of

840
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: those Christian haunted house haunted attractions there tended to be

841
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: very little in terms of like supernatural content in them.

842
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: Generally they were depicting like real life hers and not

843
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: so much like here. Now you're witnessing angels, maybe you're

844
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: witnessing demons, but you know you're not going to see

845
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: glory from the other side.

846
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 3: I think the common recipe is you get to see

847
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 3: people go into hell. Yeah, and that the point of

848
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 3: the hell house also is a persuasive one, like it's

849
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: supposed to make you afraid that, oh, I'm going to

850
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 3: go to hell like the people in the play here,

851
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: and it's going to be scary if I don't say

852
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: the Sinner's prayer and get saved or go to this

853
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: church here. And so it's like a way, it's like

854
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: a foot in the door. It's trying to get you

855
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 3: into the actually the doctrinal religion, the regular, more low

856
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 3: intensity experience of going to this church, whereas with the mysteries,

857
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: it seems like the point of the mysteries was the

858
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: experience of the mysteries is like that was what it

859
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 3: was about. At least in the case of the Elusinian mysteries,

860
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 3: it wasn't like a persuasive event to try to get

861
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 3: you into to show up every week. Instead, it was like,

862
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 3: this is why you're here, this is what it's all about.

863
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: There there's often the sense that it's not something you

864
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: could even put into words exactly like it was that

865
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: level of an experience, not on keeping again, not dissimilar

866
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: from some of the accounts of psychedelic experiences and paranormal experiences.

867
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 1: Rather different from in that regard compared to a haunted attraction,

868
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: where generally you can describe everything quite well once you

869
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: leave the facilities.

870
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 3: All right, So we've talked about a written version of

871
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: the myth associating the goddess Demeter with the city of

872
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: el Jusis, and we've talked about how people in the

873
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 3: ancient world wrote about the personal effect of being initiated

874
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 3: or attending the mysteries. But what's beyond this, of course,

875
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 3: is to describe the rituals themselves. I think we do

876
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 3: not have time left to do that today, so I

877
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: think that should be where we pick up in the

878
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: next episode.

879
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: All right, so we'll meet you back here on Thursday

880
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: for our continued look at the ancient mystery cults of

881
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: the Greco Roman world. In the meantime, we'll remind you

882
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science

883
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: and culture podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

884
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: short form episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set

885
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird

886
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 1: film on Weird House Cinema.

887
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

888
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

889
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

890
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

891
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact stuff to Blow your

892
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

893
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

894
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

895
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite.

896
00:52:47,920 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 5: Shows, the

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00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: PO