WEBVTT - How Nuclear Reactors Work

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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<v Speaker 1>It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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<v Speaker 1>tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and

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<v Speaker 1>I am an editor at how stuff works dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Sitting across from me as always a senior writer, Jonathan Strickland.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, Okay, I think we'll probably be a little

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<v Speaker 1>subdued for those those of you who are long term fans.

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<v Speaker 1>A few weeks ago we recorded an episode of tech

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff because of a seismic event in christ Church, New Zealand.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet uh did a lot of damage, but hadn't resulted

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of human costs. Since then, of course, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've had the earthquake in Japan nine point

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<v Speaker 1>oh earthquake um, which, if you remember in the Seismology podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>each each number in the Richter scale is ten times

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<v Speaker 1>greater in intensity than the previous number, So a two

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<v Speaker 1>is ten times more intense than a one. So nine

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<v Speaker 1>is an incredibly intense earthquake. What's what's interesting about that too?

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<v Speaker 1>Just as a note, um, I understand that that was

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<v Speaker 1>actually an aftershock of a six point two I believe

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<v Speaker 1>magnitude earthquake. It was in the sixes. Yeah, it can

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<v Speaker 1>sound kind of unusual to some of us that an

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<v Speaker 1>aftershock would actually be more powerful than the initial earthquake.

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<v Speaker 1>But you just have to remember those those plates that

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about in the Seismology podcast are the pressure

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<v Speaker 1>is incredible. There's nothing else like it on Earth really

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<v Speaker 1>where uh and if if those plates slip against each other,

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<v Speaker 1>then your you can get a pretty massive earthquake or

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<v Speaker 1>an aftershock. So um, of course, we we touched on

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<v Speaker 1>how earthquakes are measured, the different devices have been used

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<v Speaker 1>to measure them in the past. Um. And uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>of course in Japan there were the earthquakes and aftershocks

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<v Speaker 1>in the tsunami that followed, resulting in a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>property damage and loss of life. We're still not sure

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<v Speaker 1>at this point how many people are gone. No, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a tragedy that is definitely on a on a huge scale.

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<v Speaker 1>We just don't know the extent of that yet. And um,

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<v Speaker 1>although no one has really asked about this yet, we're

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thinking that maybe people would want to know

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<v Speaker 1>about the other major news event that has gone along

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<v Speaker 1>with that, which was the the nuclear power plant that

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<v Speaker 1>has suffered catastrophic failures as the result of the earthquake. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and we thought it might be interesting to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>how nuclear power plants work, and then we'll we'll go

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<v Speaker 1>into exactly what the problem is in Japan. Yeah, with this, frankly,

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<v Speaker 1>this could be a marathon episode. We could talk about

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear power plants for hours because they are very involved.

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<v Speaker 1>So we decided to stick primarily to the general type

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<v Speaker 1>of nuclear power plant being used in question, but also

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<v Speaker 1>some of the others that have had major problems in

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<v Speaker 1>the past, notably the Chernobyl reactor and the one in

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<v Speaker 1>Three Mile Island in in the United States. So let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk first about what a nuclear reactor is and how

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<v Speaker 1>it generates power. Uh, of course, it's using a nuclear process, right,

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<v Speaker 1>It's using decay. Really, it's we're talking about controlling the

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<v Speaker 1>decay of of uranium. Really, it's when you compare it

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<v Speaker 1>to a coal power plant, um, and you and you

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<v Speaker 1>take the very very basics together, this type of nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>power plant is almost exactly the same type. You're using

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<v Speaker 1>a new clear reaction to generate heat as you would

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<v Speaker 1>for a coal fired power plant, right, exactly, you would

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<v Speaker 1>you would burn coal to generate heat in a coal plant? So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>same thing, you're trying to use heat to generate electricity.

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<v Speaker 1>You use that to to generate steam. The steam turns

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<v Speaker 1>a turbine and a generator, which generates electricity. It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>the nuclear reaction that makes it so very different from

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<v Speaker 1>the coal plants that. Yeah, And you might ask, well,

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<v Speaker 1>why would you want to use nuclear power in the

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<v Speaker 1>first place. Well, there's several reasons. One is that, unlike coal,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't produce uh, greenhouse gases. That's right, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>when you burn coal, you're going to generate greenhouse gases

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<v Speaker 1>and essentially carbon dioxide being chief among them, and uh

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<v Speaker 1>and that can contribute to lots of environmental problems. So

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<v Speaker 1>in some ways, nuclear power, at least from a greenhouse

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<v Speaker 1>gas perspective, is greener than coal technology. Also, you don't

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<v Speaker 1>need as much fuel to generate power as you would

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<v Speaker 1>with coal. It's it's actually an incredible skin you could

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about, you know, a few pounds of uranium

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<v Speaker 1>versus tons and tons and tons of coal. Yes, it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't that long ago that the uh, those of us

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States were talking about the coal mine

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<v Speaker 1>the coal miners who are trapped in West Virginia. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course people start talking about the pros and

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<v Speaker 1>cons of coal. Now of course we're talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>pros and cons of of nuclear energy. UM. But yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it requires far less uh um raw material to generate

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<v Speaker 1>the nuclear reaction as it would for the coal fired

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<v Speaker 1>power plants. Now, so you're you're talking about material where

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<v Speaker 1>you don't need as much. You aren't genering greenhouse gases UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and you can create an intense amount of heat very

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<v Speaker 1>pretty simply in the grand scheme of things. But there

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<v Speaker 1>are a lot of concerns around nuclear power as well.

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<v Speaker 1>For one, I mean, we're talking about radioactive material, and

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<v Speaker 1>radioactive material that is harmful to human Yes, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>just you know, lots of things radiate energy, and not

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<v Speaker 1>all of that energy is harmful. Yes. Just the other

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<v Speaker 1>night I was watching, uh the CBS news report on

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<v Speaker 1>radio activity, and a lot of people in the United

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<v Speaker 1>States have been concerned that, first of all, the governments

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<v Speaker 1>of Japan and the United States aren't being truthful with

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of radiation being leaked in the atmosphere as

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<v Speaker 1>a result of the explosions that took place at the

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<v Speaker 1>plant in Japan. UM. But they were One of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that I think was interesting was they took a

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<v Speaker 1>Geiger counter around to several different They were basically walking

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<v Speaker 1>around New York City with a Geiger counter, and they

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<v Speaker 1>went to the middle of the park and turned it

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<v Speaker 1>on and it was picking up readings of radio activity.

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<v Speaker 1>And they walked over to granite, a granite monument as

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<v Speaker 1>a matter of fact, and UH and and took the

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<v Speaker 1>Geiger counter. A geiger counter, by the way, as a

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<v Speaker 1>device that measures radioactivity. You hear clicking sounds and it

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<v Speaker 1>has a needle. One of the UH. I think of

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<v Speaker 1>it as an old style, but really I guess it's not.

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<v Speaker 1>With the needle and it shows you roughly how much

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<v Speaker 1>radioactivity is being gendered. And granted is naturally radioactive, and

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that now. Of course, you can't take

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<v Speaker 1>just anything UM and throw it in a nuclear reactor

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<v Speaker 1>and have it react. You have to use a very

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<v Speaker 1>special UM type of material. Because to generate a nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>reaction UM, you're splitting an atom, use a stray neutron

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<v Speaker 1>to UH break apart the nucleus of another atom. And

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<v Speaker 1>and some some elements are more likely to be are

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<v Speaker 1>are are easier to do that with than others. You

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<v Speaker 1>need something that's called fistle if you're using a effission

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<v Speaker 1>reaction as the one as these reactors do. Fusion power

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<v Speaker 1>right now is kind of beyond us as far as

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<v Speaker 1>it takes more energy to create a fusion reaction than

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<v Speaker 1>we get back, I'll of it. But there is a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of hope that in the future fusion will become

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<v Speaker 1>the the power source for nuclear facilities. The Sun generates

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<v Speaker 1>energy through fusion, not fission, so uh yeah, we haven't

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<v Speaker 1>we haven't gotten there yet, but there are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of very very smart people working on ways to create

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<v Speaker 1>fusion power plants, and it's quite a bit of research

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<v Speaker 1>on on these things from Britannica. I like to to

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<v Speaker 1>use that, of course as one of my sources. Um

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<v Speaker 1>and uranium two thirty five, according to Britannica, is the

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<v Speaker 1>only naturally occurring fistle material that's in a ready state

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<v Speaker 1>to be to be split apart this way. Um, there

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<v Speaker 1>are other, uh different kinds of materials. We're we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the nucleides um. Somebody probably correct my pronunciation. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's right, but those some of them basically as

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<v Speaker 1>long as the atoms are in an excited state. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>they can be um. When they're hit with a slow

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<v Speaker 1>moving neutron, you can you can break them apart. Uranium

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<v Speaker 1>two thirty five to thirty three, plutonium two thirty nine

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<v Speaker 1>and two forty one um Plutonium two thirty nine. You

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<v Speaker 1>actually create with your uranium two thirty eight and then

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<v Speaker 1>you bombard it with neutrons. Yeah, materials that are fertile,

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<v Speaker 1>uh can be that if you are different kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>materials that if you add an extra neutron, you can

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<v Speaker 1>they can become fiztle. Uh. Those are thorium two thirty two,

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<v Speaker 1>uranium two thirty eight, and plutonium two forty um. So

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<v Speaker 1>these are very complex atoms and heavy atoms and very

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<v Speaker 1>heavy atoms and um. There are are the kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>materials required to be used in a in a core

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<v Speaker 1>of a nuclear reactor, and uranium two thirty five will

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<v Speaker 1>break apart naturally decays over time. But but that's not

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<v Speaker 1>the You know, you want to have a controlled and

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<v Speaker 1>a controlled reaction in order to be able to generate power,

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<v Speaker 1>and you want to be able to do it at

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<v Speaker 1>a good time scale. Because we're uh, we don't have

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of years to generate electricity. So with the uranium

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<v Speaker 1>two thirty five, you actually would bombard it with neutrons

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<v Speaker 1>in order to uh to speed up that reaction. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>what that will do is that the the atom splits apart,

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<v Speaker 1>it generates a lot of energy in the form of

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<v Speaker 1>heat and radiation. The radiation comes in the forms of

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<v Speaker 1>gamma radiation, beta radiation, and alpha radiation. Uh So, gamma

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<v Speaker 1>radiation is a form of electromagnetic radiation UM. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>there are two major kinds of radiation. Electromagnetic radiation, which

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<v Speaker 1>is some form of light. Uh it's it's photon radiation UM.

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<v Speaker 1>That may not be visible light, but it is. It

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<v Speaker 1>falls under the photon radiation. Then you have particulate radiation,

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<v Speaker 1>which is when you're talking about an unstable uh atom

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<v Speaker 1>particle shoots off essentially from the the atom. And uh

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<v Speaker 1>So with alpha radiation uh uh or well, I'll start

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<v Speaker 1>with beta radiation. With beta radiation, you've got electrons being released. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>alpha radiation, it's protons and neutrons being released. Now, protons

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<v Speaker 1>and neutrons are much much much larger in comparison to electrons,

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<v Speaker 1>and they move slower than electrons do. So alpha radiation,

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<v Speaker 1>you get the protons and neutron splitting off. That's a

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<v Speaker 1>particulate radiation that moves slowly. It can actually depending upon you,

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<v Speaker 1>know how how you're being exposed to it. Your skin

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<v Speaker 1>can sometimes block alpha radiation just because your skin is

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<v Speaker 1>thick enough where it's the particles are not moving at

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<v Speaker 1>a speed sufficient to be able to penetrate the skin. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>The beta radiation is different because those electrons are very

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<v Speaker 1>tiny and they're moving really really fast and uh, and

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<v Speaker 1>this is the sort of radiation that the sort of

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<v Speaker 1>particular radiation that can actually cause pretty nasty deep tissue

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<v Speaker 1>damage if it hit to you. And then of course

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<v Speaker 1>gamma radiation is really really high energy electro magnetic radiation,

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<v Speaker 1>and that stuff is serious business. Uh. You know, gamma

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<v Speaker 1>radiation can cause lots of problems in both immediate acute

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<v Speaker 1>problems and chronic problems over time. So why would you

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<v Speaker 1>want to use this, Well, it's because it gives off

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<v Speaker 1>this this amount of energy, this this kind of intense energy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really good at converting water into steam. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you can control this reaction, uh and generate the right

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<v Speaker 1>amount of heat, you're going to generate a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>steam that's going to move through the system and eventually

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<v Speaker 1>turn the turbine which is going to uh provide the

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<v Speaker 1>power to the generator, and then you you create power

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<v Speaker 1>for the power grid. And some countries rely very heavily

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<v Speaker 1>on nuclear power to create to to supplement their power grid.

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<v Speaker 1>Countries like like France, it's nearly seventy of their power

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<v Speaker 1>that comes from nuclear power. In the United States, it's

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<v Speaker 1>more like it's funny because there are two, um, two

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<v Speaker 1>different things to consider that you might not consider with

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<v Speaker 1>some of the other forms of electricity generation. Here UM

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<v Speaker 1>atomic reactions are deal with probability UM and they deal

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<v Speaker 1>with chain reactions. UM. I remember watching in one of

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<v Speaker 1>my science classes a long long time ago an experiment

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<v Speaker 1>that they did where they had set up we're not

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<v Speaker 1>an experiment, but an an illustration. They had a plexiglass

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<v Speaker 1>or clear plastic box and across the floor of it,

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<v Speaker 1>the entire floor was covered with mouse traps set mouse traps.

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<v Speaker 1>Each mouse trap had two ping pong balls on top

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<v Speaker 1>of it and everything was still. So this is the

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<v Speaker 1>normal state of the atoms that's supposed to represent the

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<v Speaker 1>normal state of the atoms inside the fuel. UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>then there was a small hole at the top of

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<v Speaker 1>the box, and the person said, Okay, this is what

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.360
<v Speaker 1>happens when you add the neutron. The stray neutron is

0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.720
<v Speaker 1>another ping pong ball in this illustration, and the person

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 1>dropped the ping pong ball into into the box, and

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 1>of course it hit one of the mouse traps, setting

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 1>it off. The other two ping pong balls representing neutrons again, uh,

0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.040
<v Speaker 1>jumped up from the mouse trap in different directions, and

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 1>each of those set off more mouse traps, and each

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.440
<v Speaker 1>of those set off more mouse traps. Exponential growth. Yes. Now,

0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.920
<v Speaker 1>of course in the nuclear fuel uh, you know, in

0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 1>that particular illustration ended and very quickly within a matter

0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 1>of you know, probably two or three seconds, because they

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 1>were you know, forty mouse traps or something like that.

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.480
<v Speaker 1>In nuclear fuel, this continues on UM, but they have

0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to control that. They have to look at the probability

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.520
<v Speaker 1>that a neutron will continue, that there will still be

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 1>stray neutrons able to generate more heat energy release UM.

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 1>So when they want to what they call a slightly

0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 1>super critical uh level of reaction, because there's that means

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 1>that there is more more than one fission per neutron

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.960
<v Speaker 1>so you're you're you don't want it to be a

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 1>little bit. You don't want to be underneath that. When

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 1>it gets subcritical, that's when there are a few there

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:22.400
<v Speaker 1>are fewer neutrons available to make the nuclear reactions, which

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.600
<v Speaker 1>means that you would actually have to pour more power

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 1>into the system to to shoot more neutrons into it

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:29.680
<v Speaker 1>in order to generate power. And of course, you know,

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the whole goal here is to make it as efficient

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 1>as possible when you're generating electricity. Otherwise you're actually consuming

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.800
<v Speaker 1>far more power than you are able to convert into electricity. Yes,

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.320
<v Speaker 1>when it's one spare neutron to a reaction, that's or

0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to a nucleus of another atom, that's critical. That literally,

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 1>that is what they call critical, and that's the reactive

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 1>state of the the reactor core um. From what I understand,

0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>they do want it to be slightly super critical, but

0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.560
<v Speaker 1>only lightly, and so controlling the reaction is very important,

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.600
<v Speaker 1>and it's done in a number of different ways. Sure,

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.080
<v Speaker 1>let's talk a little bit about the way the fuel

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.120
<v Speaker 1>is put together and then we can talk about how

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>that control happens. Yeah, I think that that would be

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 1>excellent because that is a big part of how they

0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 1>control the reaction. Yeah, so, so the uranium is enriched

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.320
<v Speaker 1>with uranium two thirty five right now for a nuclear facility,

0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, we should might maybe explain what

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 1>that means, because uranium two thirty five is naturally reactive,

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>but there's only so much of you two thirty five

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 1>found in a chunk of uranium. So enriched uranium is

0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 1>basically they've added more uranium two thirty five to the

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.160
<v Speaker 1>uranium overall to make it, to make it more reactive

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 1>so they can use it as nuclear fuel. And so

0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 1>for UH, you have to for for fuel for a

0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>nuclear power plant, you need to have added enough you

0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>two thirty five, So it's got two to you two

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.959
<v Speaker 1>thirty five and the overall fuel now you two thirty

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.159
<v Speaker 1>five is the same element that you're going to find

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>in UH in nuclear weapons. But nuclear weapons require a

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 1>much higher percentage of you two thirty five to thirty

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.600
<v Speaker 1>five within the uranium in order for it to be

0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.960
<v Speaker 1>weapons grade. So that's a pretty easy way to tell

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 1>if someone's making weapons grade uranium is you measure how

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>how the percentage of you to to thirty five in

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 1>the fuel itself. If you've been following the news and

0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 1>you've seen pieces on where some countries are concerned about

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Iran enriching uranium. This is why you can enrich uranium

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 1>for a nuclear power program, or it can also be

0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>used in weapons. Right, So if you're enriching beyond that

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 1>two to three percent, then that's a good indicator that

0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at something more uh dangerous than the nuclear

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>power plant. So the what the bits of uranium are

0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.840
<v Speaker 1>actually formed into what what is called pellets, and they're

0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.639
<v Speaker 1>about an inch long. They're about the diameter of a dime.

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.360
<v Speaker 1>So you can think it's kind of like a cylinder

0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.360
<v Speaker 1>right now. These pellets are stacked together to form rods.

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes they are. They are contained within a metal rod, yes, yes,

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.359
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, you can think of like a there's like

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.880
<v Speaker 1>a sheath, a metal sheath, and these uranium pellets are

0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.399
<v Speaker 1>stacked within that sheath. Now, these rods are then grouped

0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:35.080
<v Speaker 1>together into a collection called a bundle. And if if

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 1>that's all it was, if that's all you had and

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.639
<v Speaker 1>then you started introducing neutrons into it, you would have

0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>no way to to modify to moderate that at all.

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.280
<v Speaker 1>It would just the reaction would would increase and increase

0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.960
<v Speaker 1>until either you would spent all the fuel or you

0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.359
<v Speaker 1>had had a melt down. And meltdown essentially is when

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the fuel itself gets so hot that it melts um.

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 1>So in order to control this, they have control rods.

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.480
<v Speaker 1>And control rods are made of material that are that

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 1>absorbs neutrons, because as we were talking about, you know

0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.960
<v Speaker 1>these neutrons that that fly off and hit uranium two five,

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:15.200
<v Speaker 1>that's what initializes this reaction. So if you have material

0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.960
<v Speaker 1>that absorbs neutrons, it's like taking you know, you're you're

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.879
<v Speaker 1>you're putting the brakes on things, and the control rods

0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 1>tend to be you can you can insert them either

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 1>all the way down where they are going to control

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the reaction as much as possible, keeping in mind that

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 1>there's still some decay heat that's going on here. It's

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.520
<v Speaker 1>not like it's not like you immediately switch it off.

0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:41.119
<v Speaker 1>It's just slowing it down to the point where you

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.840
<v Speaker 1>call it a nuclear shut down, but there's still heat.

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Or you can raise them all the way up and

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.800
<v Speaker 1>then just let the UH reaction go to full full blast.

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Cadmium and boron are two elements that are very good

0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 1>at absorbing stray neutrons, and you may have heard about

0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.120
<v Speaker 1>born being introduced into the Japanese facility along with sea water.

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.480
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk about that in a minute too, um, but

0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.400
<v Speaker 1>those are those are also uh, those are useful because

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 1>they're basically fighting over who gets the stray neutrons and

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.960
<v Speaker 1>that just slows everything down and helps right keep it

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.280
<v Speaker 1>under control. Now, inside this nuclear reactor, you also have

0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.639
<v Speaker 1>to have coolant because and actually the coolant is what

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.159
<v Speaker 1>heats up to go and then usually you have a

0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.240
<v Speaker 1>you have a coolant that then runs through another system

0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.399
<v Speaker 1>that will heat up water and the water becomes steam

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.680
<v Speaker 1>and that's what drives the turbine. Some nuclear power plants,

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.000
<v Speaker 1>and these are the ones that are kind of particularly dangerous,

0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.359
<v Speaker 1>have the coolant system also driving the turbine, which means

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:50.240
<v Speaker 1>that you have radioactive material pushing that turbine because the

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:55.160
<v Speaker 1>coolant that encounters the actual rods is going to pick

0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>up radioactive material itself, will become radioactive. It's gonna have

0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.879
<v Speaker 1>radioacti particles running through that cooling system. So most of

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 1>these cooling systems are are self contained and they do

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:11.120
<v Speaker 1>not cross over into the water system that drives the turbine.

0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.239
<v Speaker 1>They just they just you can think of it as

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.680
<v Speaker 1>it runs up against the water system, and the heat

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.840
<v Speaker 1>from the cooling system is what generates the steam in

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.880
<v Speaker 1>the water system. Um. So, but you have to have that.

0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.680
<v Speaker 1>If you don't have that again, the uh, the core

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 1>can reach a temperature that's so high that the uranium

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.840
<v Speaker 1>begins to melt. And there there's a lot of scary

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.720
<v Speaker 1>guesswork as to what would happen if you had a

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.400
<v Speaker 1>true meltdown, like a full on meltdown to the point

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 1>where we're not really sure if the material would get

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 1>so hot, like the reaction would continue to a point

0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.679
<v Speaker 1>where it would just burn right through the reactor. Um

0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.199
<v Speaker 1>that's a theoretical possibility, although we haven't actually seen that

0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.920
<v Speaker 1>happen in real life yet, Thank goodness us that's true. Well,

0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:05.960
<v Speaker 1>the the movie The China Syndrome is about that, and

0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:11.399
<v Speaker 1>I think most scientists would probably tell you that that's

0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.639
<v Speaker 1>a bit hysterical for what might actually happen. Uh. The

0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.639
<v Speaker 1>the premise being that the core melts down, the fuel

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 1>is melting, and it melts all the way through the

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>center of the Earth again, from the United States to China,

0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.119
<v Speaker 1>all the way through the the Earth that might be

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 1>a little I think that's probably I mean, I'm not

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.919
<v Speaker 1>a scientist obviously, but I think that's a little extreme.

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:38.960
<v Speaker 1>I would definitely call that the worst case scenario. Yeah,

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't know that it could actually go

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.399
<v Speaker 1>that far. But yes, that that is an exaggeration of

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.760
<v Speaker 1>what Jonathan's talking about, the idea that it would melt

0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 1>through the reactor. So the the problems that we could

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.200
<v Speaker 1>conceivably face with a nuclear power plant would involve something

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 1>going wrong with the ability to insert or remove the

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.320
<v Speaker 1>control rods, really to insert them, because because if they're

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.200
<v Speaker 1>stuck there, all you really have is a dead nuclear

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:09.320
<v Speaker 1>power plan. And yes, that is terrible and that it's

0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.880
<v Speaker 1>gonna cost billions of dollars to fix, but it doesn't

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:17.439
<v Speaker 1>pose an immediate threat to the surrounding area. UM. You

0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 1>also have the problem with if if the water system,

0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.600
<v Speaker 1>if the cooling system is UH in any way compromised,

0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.679
<v Speaker 1>then you have the chance of the nuclear reactor overheating,

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.680
<v Speaker 1>which unfortunately we have seen happen before, and that can

0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:35.360
<v Speaker 1>cause UH massive problems down the line. Now, what happened

0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 1>with Japan is that the earthquake actually did not UH

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 1>did not damage the reactors to the point where they

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 1>were inoperable. In fact, what happened was that the control

0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 1>rods descended, as they should have in that instance to

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:56.400
<v Speaker 1>control that reaction. But again there's decay heat. It's not

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 1>like it can shut it off immediately. It's just that

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:05.359
<v Speaker 1>the reaction is no longer continuing, right, but still generating heat. Right. UM.

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Another thing to consider with regard to the Japanese reactor

0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:15.760
<v Speaker 1>is that, uh, there were containment devices set up. When

0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.360
<v Speaker 1>you build a nuclear power plant like this, this light

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:24.240
<v Speaker 1>water plant, UM, it is ideal to build a containment

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.840
<v Speaker 1>area around the reactor course. UM. This is usually made

0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:33.200
<v Speaker 1>with concrete, UH, very thick concrete in the case of

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:39.000
<v Speaker 1>the Japanese plant, UM, which for has has so far

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.880
<v Speaker 1>as of the time we're talking right now, prevented a

0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:49.520
<v Speaker 1>major release of radiation. UM. The problem comes from what

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:52.679
<v Speaker 1>happens with spent nuclear fuel, which to this point we

0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 1>haven't mentioned. At some point, when the fuel becomes subcritical

0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:02.600
<v Speaker 1>and it cannot continue producing a nuclear reaction sufficient enough

0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.720
<v Speaker 1>to continue the the electrical output of the plant, UM,

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 1>they're going to want the people running the plan are

0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.439
<v Speaker 1>going to run and replace it with fresh fuel. This

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 1>can take weeks. Usually they do maintenance on the plant

0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, because it's a good time the

0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 1>plant shut down. So what they'll do is they'll remove

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:24.359
<v Speaker 1>the bundle of rods and replace it with new rods

0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 1>of with fresh fuel. But what do you do with

0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:30.360
<v Speaker 1>the old rods. That's the tricky part because the old

0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:34.280
<v Speaker 1>rods are very hot and they are very very radioactive. Yeah,

0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:36.600
<v Speaker 1>it's just like it like Chris was saying, it's kind

0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:38.880
<v Speaker 1>of like, you know, it's just that they're not generating

0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 1>the amount of energy necessary to run the plant, but

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 1>they're still generating tons of like of energy and not

0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:49.400
<v Speaker 1>really tons. Don't write me and um, the they are

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:54.200
<v Speaker 1>very much dangerous to people and here's eventually they will

0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:58.440
<v Speaker 1>be inert. But but eventually I'm talking like ten thousand years. Yes,

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 1>we can't wait around that long. And because they're generating

0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 1>so much heat and so much radioactivity, they tend to

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:07.560
<v Speaker 1>corrode pretty much any container you put them in. This

0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:12.159
<v Speaker 1>is one of the aside from the potential for an accident. Uh,

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:14.920
<v Speaker 1>this is one of the things that can that makes

0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.280
<v Speaker 1>nuclear power so controversial, is that this is the flip

0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.119
<v Speaker 1>side of the green coin. Yes, Storing the nuclear fuel,

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:25.280
<v Speaker 1>the spent nuclear fuel is very, very difficult. Uh. Nobody

0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:31.480
<v Speaker 1>wants nuclear fuel in their backyard. Um, and there's not

0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:35.600
<v Speaker 1>even there's not a good answer for that. Storing it

0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:40.200
<v Speaker 1>in caves is one solution. The question is whether or

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.320
<v Speaker 1>not people will go in there. Um. You know, a

0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 1>thousand years down the road is still very radioactive. Um.

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:49.880
<v Speaker 1>You could say, well, why don't we shoot it off

0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:54.440
<v Speaker 1>into space. Well, that's fine, except there's the potential for

0:26:54.480 --> 0:27:00.199
<v Speaker 1>an accident. Rockets are not foolproof, and if you have

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:04.520
<v Speaker 1>an accident with the rocket, there's the potential that radioactive

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 1>waste could be scattered across the roth's atmosphere in that again,

0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:11.160
<v Speaker 1>is something that no one wants to happen. So one

0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:13.199
<v Speaker 1>of the first things they do when they remove the

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 1>fuel from what I understand from the reactor core, is

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:19.199
<v Speaker 1>they put it in a containment pool. Water, as it

0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:23.080
<v Speaker 1>turns out, is a natural shield against radioactivity. Uh. Not

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:27.800
<v Speaker 1>only is it cooling the very very hot rods with

0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 1>the nuclear fuel inside, but it also is shield doing

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 1>some shielding against radioactivity. Well in the Japanese plant, when

0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:41.520
<v Speaker 1>the power was shut off, ironically enough, Uh, the water

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.840
<v Speaker 1>began to evaporate. It was boiling off. And that's the

0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:48.879
<v Speaker 1>problem is that there when there's no more water surrounding

0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:52.679
<v Speaker 1>the spent fuel. It wasn't the reactor cores, it was

0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:56.200
<v Speaker 1>this the spent fuel. Uh, and the reaction is allowed

0:27:56.200 --> 0:28:01.760
<v Speaker 1>to continue that generates hydrogen when the hydrogen is explosive. Yeah,

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 1>it's It's a process called thermolysis. It's when heat turns

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 1>water into hydrogen and oxygen breaks up the molecules into

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:12.480
<v Speaker 1>their into their component atoms, and you can you can

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.160
<v Speaker 1>do the same thing with electricity, that's electrolysis. So it's

0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the same sort of thing. It's just you pour enough

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.200
<v Speaker 1>energy into a molecule and you can break those molecular bonds.

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.639
<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly what happened. Hydrogen built up. But before

0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 1>we get to the hydrogen problem, I should also mention

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.639
<v Speaker 1>there were a lot of fail safe procedures in place

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.080
<v Speaker 1>at the Japanese plant. It's none of the Japanese were

0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:37.159
<v Speaker 1>not doing due diligence with safety. It's just that was

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:40.400
<v Speaker 1>the perfect set of terrible situations for this to happen.

0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:43.120
<v Speaker 1>And it and it from what I understand, not to

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:46.720
<v Speaker 1>interrupt him, um, from what I understand, the plant was

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:53.480
<v Speaker 1>intended to survive and eight plus UH point Richter scale earthquake. Yeah,

0:28:53.520 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 1>it was the tsunami that really hit them. Because here's

0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.240
<v Speaker 1>what happens. They lost power from the power grid, well

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 1>the power plant had and they need power to pump

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 1>water through the system in where to keep it cool.

0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:11.959
<v Speaker 1>So the pumps run on electricity. So they switched to

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 1>their diesel generators. But then the tsunami hit and the

0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 1>diesel generators were not above the tsunami levels, so they

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 1>were flooded and could no longer work. They also had

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 1>battery power, but the battery power was only meant to

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.720
<v Speaker 1>last you know, I think it like a day, because

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:31.520
<v Speaker 1>the idea was that, well, we won't be without power

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 1>for longer than that. But they could not get supplemental

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:39.200
<v Speaker 1>power in place to uh to cover the gap between

0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the battery power and when they could get some other

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 1>form online. And so the water stopped pumping and the

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:49.400
<v Speaker 1>temperature kept building and the hydrogen built up. Um and

0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 1>hydrogen is incredibly flammable. It's explosive, and there was the

0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 1>hydrogen collected at the top of the facility. UH. Something

0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 1>set it off and there was that's what that big

0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:07.040
<v Speaker 1>explosion was when we first you know, and there's been

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:10.160
<v Speaker 1>a uh, there's been other ones since then, but that

0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.080
<v Speaker 1>initial explosion, people were worried that the reactor had exploded.

0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:15.440
<v Speaker 1>That's not what happened. It was the pocket of hydrogen

0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:19.840
<v Speaker 1>that it exploded. And as uh, if you've been through

0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:22.080
<v Speaker 1>a certain level of science, of course we have some

0:30:22.200 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 1>younger listeners. The three things that you need for fire

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:29.040
<v Speaker 1>are you know, heat, a source of fuel, and air,

0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:33.520
<v Speaker 1>and you would certainly have that with very hot fuel rods,

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:36.640
<v Speaker 1>air in the in the area, and then you know

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 1>the source of hydrogen. So um, it was a very

0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 1>dangerous situation. Now uh people have said, uh, you know,

0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.320
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be another Chernobyl. But Chernobyl was

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 1>a different situation. They did not have any containment in place,

0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 1>or what they did have some containment that it was

0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:58.400
<v Speaker 1>not designed to prevent the kind of release that that occurred.

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Chernobyl was interesting. So when we're talking containment, like Chris

0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:05.840
<v Speaker 1>was saying, you're talking about a very thick concrete liner,

0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:10.400
<v Speaker 1>usually there's a steel a steel like you can call

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 1>it like a furnace, I guess, but it's a steel

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:15.320
<v Speaker 1>container that is lined with concrete, and then you have

0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>a big concrete building around that, so you've got two

0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 1>barriers of concrete and a barrier of steel in order

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:25.760
<v Speaker 1>to contain the nuclear reactions. Chernobyl only had the basic container,

0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:28.720
<v Speaker 1>did not have a secondary container, so if there were

0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 1>a failure, then there you have much more chance of

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:38.480
<v Speaker 1>nuclear fallout. And in fact, the Chernobyl incident happened ironically

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.360
<v Speaker 1>during a procedure where they were trying to test out

0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:44.360
<v Speaker 1>a safety feature because what Chernobyl was going to have

0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:48.760
<v Speaker 1>was having some similar issues to the japan facility and

0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 1>that Chernobyl um they were worried about what would happen

0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 1>if power were lost, If they lost power from the

0:31:55.680 --> 0:31:57.920
<v Speaker 1>power grid and they can no longer pump water through

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:01.880
<v Speaker 1>their system, so they uh they had these diesel backups,

0:32:01.880 --> 0:32:04.360
<v Speaker 1>but the diesel backups would would not really kick in

0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:08.520
<v Speaker 1>until about a minute after the initial power loss, and

0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 1>that minute is a long time for these nuclear reactions

0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:15.280
<v Speaker 1>to go unchecked, right with no water cooling them down.

0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:16.920
<v Speaker 1>So one of the things that we're looking at doing

0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 1>was using the turbine as it slowed down to generate

0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:24.440
<v Speaker 1>enough electricity to keep the pumps running for that one minute.

0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:29.239
<v Speaker 1>Before the diesel backups could kick in, and they were

0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 1>running a test and it was like the perfect set again,

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:35.920
<v Speaker 1>a perfect set of situations going wrong for that test

0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:39.720
<v Speaker 1>to fail. There was a power spike, and then while

0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 1>they were trying to react to the initial power spike,

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.240
<v Speaker 1>there was a second power spike, and that's when you

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:50.000
<v Speaker 1>had another explosion and release of steam and nuclear steam,

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 1>and then there was the terrible fallout that happened in

0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 1>a huge radius around your noble Belarus in particular was

0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:00.720
<v Speaker 1>hit really really hard by that radio and it was UH.

0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:04.720
<v Speaker 1>And there there are levels of nuclear disaster. We give

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>them a numeric UH assignment for how bad it is,

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.120
<v Speaker 1>and it goes from one to seven. Chernobyl was a

0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.280
<v Speaker 1>seven three mile island which happened in the United States

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:18.520
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy nine. That was a five, and the Japan

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:22.320
<v Speaker 1>incident right now is is listed as six. Of course,

0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 1>that can change over time and things get worse. Um

0:33:26.120 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 1>hopefully it will not so, but yeah, because Chernobyl was

0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:34.920
<v Speaker 1>was not as protective as it needed to be. That's

0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 1>why the it was ended up being a seven. Like

0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 1>if it had had the right protections in place, it

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 1>may still have been a terrible, terrible accident, but it

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.840
<v Speaker 1>may not have been as bad as it turned out

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to be. Three Mile Island was interesting and that uh,

0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 1>it was a combination of user error and mechanical failure.

0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:56.880
<v Speaker 1>There was a valve that was open, and then the

0:33:56.920 --> 0:33:59.720
<v Speaker 1>power to the valve was shut off, which normally would

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:02.280
<v Speaker 1>mean the valve would close. The valve would only open

0:34:02.320 --> 0:34:07.040
<v Speaker 1>when powered. There's a mechanical failure. The valve did not close,

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and because um the indicator on the console said that

0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:14.439
<v Speaker 1>there was no longer power going to that valve, all

0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:18.399
<v Speaker 1>the operators assumed that the valve was closed, but their

0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:20.959
<v Speaker 1>readings were showing that the pressure and temperature were off,

0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:24.160
<v Speaker 1>like the pressure and temperature of the core should not

0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.800
<v Speaker 1>have been what it was. Well, the reason why there

0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:29.120
<v Speaker 1>was a problem was because the water was boiling off

0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and there was this open valve and so there was

0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:33.480
<v Speaker 1>an open you know, the pressure was not building the

0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.480
<v Speaker 1>right way. But it took hours for them to figure

0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:38.880
<v Speaker 1>out what the problem was. Actually, there was a shift change,

0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and it was when someone from the new shift was

0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:42.759
<v Speaker 1>looking at the problem that they figured it out. And

0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:47.879
<v Speaker 1>then by then the scare had really hit. Unfortunately, Three

0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Mile Island wasn't as bad as it could have been.

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:52.440
<v Speaker 1>There was no There was only I think there's a

0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:55.560
<v Speaker 1>partial melt down, which was scary, but it could have

0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:58.239
<v Speaker 1>been so much worse if someone had not picked up

0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:02.280
<v Speaker 1>on that mistake. Now as far as Japan goes, Uh,

0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:05.720
<v Speaker 1>we talked about the boron uh and the seawater. Well,

0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 1>dumping seawater into the reactor is pretty much a last

0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 1>step because the seawater is going to ruin that reactor.

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:14.960
<v Speaker 1>You're not gonna be able to use it again. Um.

0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:17.960
<v Speaker 1>And the boron is there to help absorb those neutrons,

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:21.160
<v Speaker 1>like Chris was saying. Yes. Another another one of the

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:25.560
<v Speaker 1>problems that they were mentioning on the news yesterday as

0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:28.600
<v Speaker 1>that the day we're recording this is that Um there

0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:31.319
<v Speaker 1>they are currently this. This will show you probably when

0:35:31.360 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 1>we're recording this. Uh. They were talking about the pumps

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:37.520
<v Speaker 1>that are in place. They wanted to be able to

0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:40.120
<v Speaker 1>restart them. They've had trouble doing that and they're going

0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:43.520
<v Speaker 1>to have more trouble doing that now. Uh. They're hoping

0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:46.320
<v Speaker 1>to again as at the time we're recording, to restore

0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:48.520
<v Speaker 1>electricity to the plant so that they can go ahead

0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.560
<v Speaker 1>and shut the pumps back on. But for the reactors

0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:55.960
<v Speaker 1>UH in which they have introduced seawater, this is an

0:35:56.000 --> 0:36:00.440
<v Speaker 1>issue because the seawater also clogs those pumps, so it

0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:02.440
<v Speaker 1>is going to be even more difficult for them to

0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:09.600
<v Speaker 1>contain the situations in those damaged reactors UH today than

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.200
<v Speaker 1>it would have been a few days ago when the

0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:14.640
<v Speaker 1>problem was first getting out of hand. Yeah, the issue

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 1>was just that if they did not introduce the seawater,

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:22.560
<v Speaker 1>there was there was an increased danger of a meltdown because,

0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:25.120
<v Speaker 1>like we said, this temperature just keeps on going. It's

0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:27.920
<v Speaker 1>not even with the control rods in place, which the

0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:31.719
<v Speaker 1>system did do UM, it does not eliminate that heat.

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:33.879
<v Speaker 1>You have to be able to circulate the coolant through

0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:37.840
<v Speaker 1>there in order to to maintain the temperature. And UM,

0:36:37.880 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 1>because there was no way to circulate the coolant, they

0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:42.840
<v Speaker 1>had a choice either they introduced the seawater and boron

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.120
<v Speaker 1>into the reactor core, or they take a chance on

0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:49.279
<v Speaker 1>a meltdown. And and clearly the second option is not

0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:51.680
<v Speaker 1>one that anyone wants to take. That that is not

0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:55.160
<v Speaker 1>an option, right. So there's a lot of concern actually

0:36:55.520 --> 0:37:01.839
<v Speaker 1>that this this UH will really set Japan back quite

0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:04.480
<v Speaker 1>a bit because they are very reliant on nuclear power

0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.600
<v Speaker 1>and that um losing this facility, which it's quite possible

0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:11.839
<v Speaker 1>that they will lose at least, uh more than half

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:16.359
<v Speaker 1>of the reactors in this facility, that it will really

0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:20.640
<v Speaker 1>impact their ability to create electricity. And the quake in

0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:25.200
<v Speaker 1>general has really um, I mean, it seems it seems

0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:29.160
<v Speaker 1>weird to say this because there are so many more

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:33.040
<v Speaker 1>important tragedies that are connected to the quake, But the

0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:38.359
<v Speaker 1>quake itself could actually set back everything from electronics to computers,

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:40.960
<v Speaker 1>just because so much of it is manufactured in Japan

0:37:41.080 --> 0:37:44.320
<v Speaker 1>and those manufacturing facilities were damaged in in the quake.

0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:49.439
<v Speaker 1>That that's true. Um, Even places that weren't directly hit

0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:54.480
<v Speaker 1>by the tsunami are still suffering problems. Um. And from

0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 1>what I understand, the majority of flash memory used in

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of electronic devices cell phones, smartphones, tablets, MP

0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 1>three players, and all kinds of other things, the majority

0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:10.200
<v Speaker 1>of it comes from Japan. Uh So this is likely

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:13.160
<v Speaker 1>to u to cause problems in the supply chain and

0:38:13.239 --> 0:38:18.120
<v Speaker 1>disrupt um electronics manufacturers the world over. And of course,

0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:21.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, those those people who who weren't directly hit

0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:23.000
<v Speaker 1>probably would like to get back to work. But this

0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:26.239
<v Speaker 1>is going to be difficult for them to be able

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:28.680
<v Speaker 1>to move on and and do things that they want

0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 1>to do again. You know, even even people who weren't

0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:35.360
<v Speaker 1>directly affected by uh, you know, losing their homes and

0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:39.160
<v Speaker 1>losing friends and loved ones. Um, you know, this is

0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.440
<v Speaker 1>this is difficult for for them as well. It's a

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 1>major catastrophe. It's all. It's I was gonna say it's

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.640
<v Speaker 1>almost unimaginable to me, but no, I think I have

0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:51.600
<v Speaker 1>to say it's unimaginable. I I cannot comprehend the level

0:38:51.880 --> 0:38:54.440
<v Speaker 1>of catastrophe this is. I mean, I see the pictures,

0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:57.040
<v Speaker 1>and I see the video, and I hear the testimonials

0:38:57.080 --> 0:39:02.239
<v Speaker 1>and it's all heartbreaking. But it's just there's I can't

0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:07.200
<v Speaker 1>grasp it. It's beyond my ability. Um, and guys, I

0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:10.000
<v Speaker 1>want to say this before we before we start wrapping up.

0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:13.919
<v Speaker 1>We have some amazing articles on how stuff works dot Com,

0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:18.240
<v Speaker 1>about nuclear reactors, about radiation, and about the Japanese crisis.

0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:23.279
<v Speaker 1>There's how nuclear power works, how Japan's nuclear crisis works,

0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:27.040
<v Speaker 1>how radiation works. These articles are fantastic. I read through

0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:29.759
<v Speaker 1>all of them in prep for this UH, this podcast

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:34.279
<v Speaker 1>and the writing on these are amazing. I mean, you

0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:38.600
<v Speaker 1>get the Marshall brain and Robert Lamb and uh and

0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:42.160
<v Speaker 1>and Deborah Ront's all did fantastic jobs. And my hat

0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 1>is off to them because they took a very complex,

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.240
<v Speaker 1>dense subject and they broke it down in a really

0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:51.960
<v Speaker 1>understandable way. So if you want to learn more, I

0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:54.920
<v Speaker 1>highly recommend you check them out. Yeah. There there are

0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:59.759
<v Speaker 1>so many other types of uh nuclear energy to the

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:03.279
<v Speaker 1>haven't touched on and talk anything about, uh some of

0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the other new technologies that people are trying out now, um,

0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:09.439
<v Speaker 1>one of them being the pebble bed reactor that they're

0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:12.560
<v Speaker 1>starting to roll out in China, which, from what I understand,

0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 1>maybe to some degree safer there's less chance of something

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.360
<v Speaker 1>like a meltdown occurring because it uses a different method

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.160
<v Speaker 1>of nuclear reaction, and that might be maybe we can

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:25.760
<v Speaker 1>look at that again when when this uh these issues

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:28.680
<v Speaker 1>aren't so fresh and we can uh uh you know,

0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:32.120
<v Speaker 1>look at some of those. And I'm also interested in personally,

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 1>and something that I read about and wired um a

0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:36.600
<v Speaker 1>couple of years ago now or maybe about a year

0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 1>and a half ago, thorium using thorium, which is not

0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:44.440
<v Speaker 1>nearly as radioactive as uranium. Of course it will carry

0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:47.960
<v Speaker 1>for some people, probably for a lot of people, the

0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:51.640
<v Speaker 1>stigma of being labeled nuclear energy. But from what I understand,

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:53.640
<v Speaker 1>you can hold the piece of thorium in your hand

0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:58.080
<v Speaker 1>and you should not suffer any ill effects because it's

0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:01.520
<v Speaker 1>not the same kind of it's not as radioactive as

0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:04.319
<v Speaker 1>as uranium or plutonium, and can be used on a

0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:09.000
<v Speaker 1>smaller scale with uh, you know, the possibility. Like I said,

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:10.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm only reading this, but it doesn't look like there's

0:41:10.680 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>nearly the possibility of uh, the kind of disaster that

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.600
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about here. So there might be other kinds

0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:19.240
<v Speaker 1>of technologies that will use in the future that can

0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:21.640
<v Speaker 1>still harness the power of the atom without being so

0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:25.400
<v Speaker 1>dangerous in the event of an act of you know,

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 1>a nature event like this. And I imagine that this,

0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:34.480
<v Speaker 1>this disaster will definitely make countries around the world rethink

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:38.719
<v Speaker 1>their their approach to nuclear power. Well, that's already that's

0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:42.720
<v Speaker 1>already happening in the United States. President Obama has ordered

0:41:42.960 --> 0:41:47.040
<v Speaker 1>um a look at all the nuclear reactors currently in

0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:49.239
<v Speaker 1>service to to just as a check up to see

0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:52.160
<v Speaker 1>how they're doing. Germany, I think has taken all of

0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:56.080
<v Speaker 1>theirs offline, um with the idea that they will evaluate

0:41:56.120 --> 0:42:00.800
<v Speaker 1>their safety. There were bills in many countries or laws

0:42:01.160 --> 0:42:04.680
<v Speaker 1>already passed to extend the life of aging nuclear reactors

0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.439
<v Speaker 1>that from one understand, are being rescinded one by one

0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:11.080
<v Speaker 1>as people are rethinking the possibility that older reactors and

0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:15.200
<v Speaker 1>this the reactor in Japan was older too. Yeah. Um so,

0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean there you know, as as we complain about

0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:20.600
<v Speaker 1>very often, technology changes very quickly and it's hard for

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:22.719
<v Speaker 1>us to keep track of It's also changing in the

0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:25.960
<v Speaker 1>nuclear industry as well, and there are new safe safety

0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:28.040
<v Speaker 1>measures that might be implemented in a in a new

0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.640
<v Speaker 1>reactor that wouldn't have been implemented in the nineties, seventies

0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:33.040
<v Speaker 1>and eighties. It's just the question of will it be

0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:38.359
<v Speaker 1>politically feasible to implement nuclear power, because uh, it's one

0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:42.320
<v Speaker 1>thing to to tell people that safety measures have improved

0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and that, uh that we've learned lessons from these events

0:42:46.040 --> 0:42:49.320
<v Speaker 1>that we can, um we can implement in the future.

0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:54.480
<v Speaker 1>But there's it's such an emotional issue and uh it

0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:57.680
<v Speaker 1>has it does have problems. I mean, the nuclear waste

0:42:57.719 --> 0:43:01.759
<v Speaker 1>is still a very very big and uh, there's not

0:43:01.800 --> 0:43:04.240
<v Speaker 1>an easy solution to that, and as long as those

0:43:04.400 --> 0:43:08.680
<v Speaker 1>still exist, I think we're going to see increased resistance

0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:12.919
<v Speaker 1>to implementation of nuclear power, which I mean that's gonna

0:43:12.920 --> 0:43:15.400
<v Speaker 1>be very frustrating for some people, although you have to

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 1>admit that, um that the we've seen examples of things

0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:23.320
<v Speaker 1>going wrong, and sometimes it's because people did not react

0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:27.040
<v Speaker 1>the right way, and sometimes it's just that the perfect

0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:30.920
<v Speaker 1>set of circumstances hit in order for something to go

0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:34.840
<v Speaker 1>terribly wrong. And you know, there there is the argument

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:38.879
<v Speaker 1>you could make that the likelihood of that happening is low,

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 1>but there's also the argument of any likelihood is too much, right.

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.279
<v Speaker 1>So it'll be interesting to see where the future of

0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:49.959
<v Speaker 1>nuclear power goes. It'll be interesting for me to see

0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:54.120
<v Speaker 1>if the the projects that are trying to make breakthroughs

0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 1>infusion power suffer as a result, because that is another

0:43:57.040 --> 0:44:00.520
<v Speaker 1>form of nuclear energy, and uh, it's a frame form

0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:02.719
<v Speaker 1>of nuclear energy. It's not the same as vision at all.

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:05.880
<v Speaker 1>But it could very well be that just because it

0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>has that association, that these programs could start to lose funding.

0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:13.480
<v Speaker 1>So we'll have to keep our eyes open see what happens. Uh.

0:44:13.600 --> 0:44:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Our thoughts go out to everyone in Japan. And all

0:44:17.160 --> 0:44:20.560
<v Speaker 1>those who are affected by this disaster. And it's absolutely

0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:24.799
<v Speaker 1>a tragic event. And uh and we really feel for

0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:27.640
<v Speaker 1>you guys. Um, if you guys want to talk to

0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:30.400
<v Speaker 1>us about nuclear power, if you have your own thoughts

0:44:30.400 --> 0:44:33.080
<v Speaker 1>you would like to share, please do so. You can

0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:36.560
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0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Stuff hs W, or you can write us an email.

0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:43.399
<v Speaker 1>That email addresses tech stuff at how stuff works dot com.

0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Chris and I will talk to you again really soon.

0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:50.120
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