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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristin and I'm Molly, So Molly. Uh,

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Speaker 1: since you are a Playboy connoisseur, I'm just kidding because

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Speaker 1: I know she's not. She's not. People. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: got I bet I got a lot of listeners attention

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Speaker 1: right there. We're gonna start this episode off with pornography. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but it's safe for work, don't worry, folks. So something

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Speaker 1: happened in the nineteen eighties in Playboy all right, the

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Speaker 1: centerfolds go from having very full, um natural pubic hair,

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Speaker 1: very natural bikini lines, to and to trimming it down

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Speaker 1: a little bit. It starts to shrink, starts to shrink,

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Speaker 1: and then in the nineties it's like it goes like

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Speaker 1: pubig hare recession or something like it just just disappears.

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Speaker 1: That's a great name for a band or a book

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Speaker 1: or something. Pubic hair res Pubic hair Recession. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: as we can guess today, Uh, those gals are bear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like almost all of them are Bear. You might have

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Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny runway, tiny little pubic goatee or soul patch.

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Speaker 1: I should say they have all sorts of names. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a Charlie chaplain. I've never heard that before any podcast.

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Speaker 1: You kind of disturb me. So if if you aren't

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Speaker 1: getting our gi by now we're talking about pubic hare

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Speaker 1: and pubic hair removal, yes, and I think that if

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Speaker 1: you do happen to just catch like let's say, an

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Speaker 1: episode Girls next Door, even if you're not looking at Playboy,

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Speaker 1: if you see that show any where, we're Playboy. Playboy

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Speaker 1: mollets are running all around. None of them have any

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Speaker 1: pubic hare if you are to look. And and from

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Speaker 1: what I understand from researching this article, in porn, no

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Speaker 1: one has pubic care either, very little. So some people

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Speaker 1: think that it's thanks to all these um nude magazines

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Speaker 1: and porn movies that make us all think pupa cares out,

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Speaker 1: which is funny because we don't let porn set other

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Speaker 1: too many other trends. You know, it sounds like we

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Speaker 1: get fashion cues other fashion cues from from Playboy models.

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Speaker 1: But they're saying some researchers say that thanks to these

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Speaker 1: kinds of outlets that both men and women get the

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Speaker 1: idea that pubic hair on a lady is bad. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I mean if you just look around at the

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Speaker 1: difference salons and spas in your town, chances are the

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Speaker 1: main thing on the menu it of bikini wax. Pikini

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Speaker 1: waxes are everywhere. It's kind of now that it's summer too,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of expected that you are going to go

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Speaker 1: get all of that hair forcibly ripped out with hot wax.

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Speaker 1: It sounds awful. Why would women do that to themselves? Well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that today on stuff Mom

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Speaker 1: never told you. Um, when you know how we always

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Speaker 1: like to start things down on stuff on when I

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Speaker 1: told you Christ And it's by going back in time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And when we go back in time to investigate pubic hair,

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Speaker 1: the journey usually starts with art, with the great artists

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Speaker 1: and the great nudes of painting history, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have pubic care. So some people were like,

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Speaker 1: maybe they've been removing it for centuries. Some people are saying,

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Speaker 1: maybe those artists just didn't want pubic care in their paintings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who would want to have to pure? I can't, I can't.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if an artist would leave that till the

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Speaker 1: very end, or maybe they do it first to get

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Speaker 1: it over with. I don't know. It doesn't seem like

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Speaker 1: a process. Well that's maybe that's why it was never there,

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Speaker 1: is it? It just didn't It seemed like a lot

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Speaker 1: of detail, so they just completely just ignored it all together.

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Speaker 1: And it looks like no one in ancient times had

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Speaker 1: a pubic hair, or maybe they all removed it. We

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Speaker 1: don't know. And some historians think that Greek women would

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Speaker 1: remove some of their pubic hair where they aren't entirely sure.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a theory that this is just the

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Speaker 1: natural progression that um that started with women shaving their

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Speaker 1: under arms, So I was shaving your under arms, and

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Speaker 1: then our legs, and now well, as clothes get skimpier,

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Speaker 1: as bikinis get more popular and skimpier, they're just saying that,

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Speaker 1: you know, more and more flesh is on display. And

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Speaker 1: we've come as a society perhaps to think that hair

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Speaker 1: on a woman other than on her head is not

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Speaker 1: a good characteristic, that that hair equals male and no

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Speaker 1: hair equals female. Although fun hair on the head fact

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Speaker 1: that I really enjoyed from this research in the fifteenth

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Speaker 1: century European women would shave the tops of their foreheads

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Speaker 1: to heighten their hairline. So which would you prefer? You know,

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Speaker 1: that trend where you have to shave your forehead or

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Speaker 1: you have to shave your vagina. Probably neither are very fun. Well,

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Speaker 1: can I tell you another fun fact that I really

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Speaker 1: liked that in parts of Siberia, pubic hair was considered

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Speaker 1: a monstrous growth, attributable evil spirits, and legitimate grounds for

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Speaker 1: a husband to divorce as life. However, in Japan the

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Speaker 1: opposite was true. If you didn't have any hair, it

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Speaker 1: could justify in annulment. See, so it seems like a cross. Culturally,

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Speaker 1: we have different standards of pubic hare. Yeah, some places

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Speaker 1: it's evil, in some places it's you know, it shows

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Speaker 1: that you grow up. I mean that's sort of the

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Speaker 1: point of pubic hare is that it comes in at puberty.

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Speaker 1: It shows that you're sexually mature, and it might serve

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Speaker 1: some other functions. It's possible that it keeps the general

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Speaker 1: area clean, keeps germs out of there. It might admit pheromones,

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Speaker 1: which are sexually signaling uh hormones of sort that are

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Speaker 1: kind of controversial, But basically, you put one pubic area

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Speaker 1: next to another and maybe they start talking and you

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Speaker 1: don't even know it, which is kind of ironic that

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Speaker 1: the porn standard would be no pubic care, because you

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Speaker 1: would think that women would be less sexy. They would

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Speaker 1: you know, there they removes a sexy signal. There's yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're sexy signals are the sexy signals? Oh, though, some

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Speaker 1: women say that know with no puple care, sex is

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Speaker 1: a lot better that that it is more sexy to

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Speaker 1: not have any pupic care, that you feel cleaner, that

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Speaker 1: there are better sensations. Um. It seems like you can

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Speaker 1: find people who who come down either side of this argument.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk for a second though about evolution, our second

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Speaker 1: favorite thing to talk about. Uh. Nancy et Cough, who

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Speaker 1: wrote Survival of the Prettiest Science of Beauty, wrote that

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Speaker 1: for centuries humans have equated hairiness with beasts and hairlessness

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Speaker 1: with beauty and femininity, and she points out that throughout history,

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Speaker 1: every time a new female body part has been publicly exposed,

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Speaker 1: like you said, as our clothes become skimpier and skimpier. Um,

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Speaker 1: that the exposure has come with hair hair removal, you know,

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Speaker 1: like when sleeveless stresses came into vogue, as we've talked

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Speaker 1: about before, we started shaving her under arms. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, though, I mean, quick note, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that vagina bearing um styles are invoked unless I've

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Speaker 1: just missing something. But she says that this practice of

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Speaker 1: hair removal is explained through evolutionary psychology. It accentuates the

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Speaker 1: differences between male and female bodies, so hairlessness is associated

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Speaker 1: with the female body, whereas hairiness is associated with the

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Speaker 1: male body. Yeah. But then again, if if ria look

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Speaker 1: at from an evolution standpoint, you want to meet with

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Speaker 1: someone who will be a good partner, and part of

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Speaker 1: being a good partner's being old enough to have children,

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Speaker 1: of which pubic hair would have been a marker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's a little tricky um. And and then Freud

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Speaker 1: had a nice theory of about pubic care. He said

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Speaker 1: that women were excessively preoccupied with their pubic hair. Hence,

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Speaker 1: you know, which makes sense, you know, if we're always

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Speaker 1: going to go get it waxed and tweezed and threaded

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Speaker 1: and whatnot. He suggests that our achievements in the weaving

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Speaker 1: arts could be attributed to unrealized fantasies about plating there

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Speaker 1: are hairs together to can conceal our shameful lack of

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Speaker 1: a penis. I have never looked at my pubic hair

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Speaker 1: or braiding my hair as as some sort of lack

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Speaker 1: of a penis. I know, sometimes I wonder where old

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Speaker 1: Freud came up with these these crazy ideas, But I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna think of it the next time I do braid

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Speaker 1: my hair or weave something. I'm weaving all the time.

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Speaker 1: I guess maybe I do have penis and me. But

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Speaker 1: we do have to talk about that maturity factor, because

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Speaker 1: this is one thing that comes up a lot. This

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Speaker 1: is the one major qualm that people have with this

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Speaker 1: hair hairless down there trend is that you know, pubic

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Speaker 1: hair is the marker of female maturity. So by taking

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Speaker 1: all that hair off, it makes you look like a

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Speaker 1: little girl. Right, And so what does it say about

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Speaker 1: men who only want to have sex with with women

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Speaker 1: who don't have pubic hair? Are they heedophiles? And I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying they are, I'm just saying that is eventually

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Speaker 1: an argument that comes up over and over again in

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Speaker 1: these in these studies about whether women should from me

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Speaker 1: remove their to care. Are we somehow feeding into this

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Speaker 1: um male ideal of having sex with old girls, and

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Speaker 1: could that also, as a byproduct, contribute to the sexualization

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Speaker 1: of younger girls. And I think, you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the times when we talk about beauty trends on

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Speaker 1: this show, we actually find out that women are the

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Speaker 1: ones who kind of perpetuate them with shaved legs and armpits.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that might be true here. I

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Speaker 1: think that, you know, women are more likely to police

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Speaker 1: each other in terms of their pubic care. Like think

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Speaker 1: of that scene in the Sex and the City movie

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Speaker 1: where um, Miranda Hatton had got a bikino back some

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Speaker 1: time and Samantha's just appauled. I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: women might police this more than men do. Yeah, that's possible, um.

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Speaker 1: And also you know it's women, the Jay sisters who

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Speaker 1: brought the Brazilians to the US, and then female celebrities.

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Speaker 1: I think Gwyneth Paltrow said changed your life. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think as of course she got married. I think was

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Speaker 1: Brad pitt Arriss she said it changed your life. But

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Speaker 1: that could relate to this notion that it makes your

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Speaker 1: skin more sensitive down there, more sensitive to to sexual touch.

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Speaker 1: But you also have to keep in mind the hygiene

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Speaker 1: factor because it can also make you more susceptible to

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Speaker 1: a STD contraction. And just safety. I mean, you've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of sensitive stuff down there, and if you're

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Speaker 1: clipping or tweezing or waxing, got be careful. There's some

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Speaker 1: things down there you don't want to hurt. But imagine

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Speaker 1: if you are a man. Okay, yeah, and you know

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Speaker 1: because guys have pupic hare too, and according to these articles,

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Speaker 1: it is men's little secret that they like to go

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Speaker 1: have these procedures as well. I think the most controversial

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Speaker 1: notion is the of men getting wax and particularly men

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Speaker 1: getting their testicles waxed, because I can't think of anything

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Speaker 1: more painful than the notion of waxing a testicle. God,

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Speaker 1: apparently that's what men are doing that. You know, they

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Speaker 1: will wax or pupic hair because they like the way

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Speaker 1: it feels as well. They think can make certain parts

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Speaker 1: of their body look bigger. Um. But it's another it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like with the men in makeup question, Like

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Speaker 1: if you're a lady and you're with a fella and

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Speaker 1: you see that heustons all this time getting wax, is

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Speaker 1: that a turn on? Or is it a turn off well.

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Speaker 1: And also the male waxing, we should say is more

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Speaker 1: associated with gay culture than out straight man. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like straight men might be a little more likely to trim,

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Speaker 1: but outright waxing. You know, there's this like kind of

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Speaker 1: I would say, a head row taboo around that. Perhaps,

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Speaker 1: like it would show that they care too much about

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Speaker 1: personal grooming. But if they're going to care about what

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Speaker 1: their ladies do exactly, the question again comes back, are

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Speaker 1: we are we getting bikini waxes so that we please

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Speaker 1: potential male partners or are we getting bikiniaxs because we

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Speaker 1: like the way it looks. May becomes more troubling when

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Speaker 1: you're doing it, because men subconsciously want to have sex

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Speaker 1: with little girls. But you can also, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that there's an argument to be made that you

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Speaker 1: can you can have both of those things because you

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Speaker 1: look more groomed, might feel better about yourself when you

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Speaker 1: take all your clothes off, so you're feeling better, and

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Speaker 1: then also knowing that the man you know is turned

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Speaker 1: on even more as well, So perhaps it's beneficial to both. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, but the question is the hairless look here

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Speaker 1: to stay? Because there was this two thousand five article

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times that talked all about um

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Speaker 1: Lazier in the hair off, which would be permanent. You know,

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Speaker 1: people kept likening it to a tattoo. And people are

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Speaker 1: saying some some stylists are saying maybe at some point

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Speaker 1: the more natural look will come back, for example, in

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Speaker 1: a different kind of rever session, not the pubic hare session,

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Speaker 1: but an economic one. That's a lot of money to

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Speaker 1: show out to get these continual bikini Brazilian waxes. So

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Speaker 1: maybe when times you're bad, people let that part of

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Speaker 1: their lives go and the people hare comes back, and

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Speaker 1: it's just a cyclic style phenomenon, and maybe like in

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Speaker 1: ten years things a look different. Possibly though, but you

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Speaker 1: can still, I mean, you can shave, you know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And also we should know that early pornography in the

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Speaker 1: twenties and thirties did show a range of female pubic

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Speaker 1: hare from very full to being very bald, and statistically

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Speaker 1: a lot of us are doing it. I mean they

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Speaker 1: were different articles were polling dermatologists who said that fifty

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Speaker 1: of female patients were going totally hairless. Um, there has

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Speaker 1: been a this was in two thousand four, I believe

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Speaker 1: a fifty three increase in UM Americans having electrolysis to

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Speaker 1: remove their hair remove hair permanently. And then the most

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Speaker 1: disturbing trend of all this comes very recently. UM the

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Speaker 1: International Spa Association reported that six percent of teams who

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Speaker 1: had visited a spa I have had a hair removal

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Speaker 1: procedure done. Okay, in these teams can arrange very young.

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Speaker 1: I mean then the notion of like a thirteen year

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Speaker 1: old getting a bikini wax well, one lay he runs

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Speaker 1: the spot, said you should start waxing at six. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for the verse, it's something called virgin waxing. You ask

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Speaker 1: those very very first hairs that come in and they

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Speaker 1: claim that if you start waxing it's six, then the

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Speaker 1: hair will just go away naturally on its sound. And

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Speaker 1: you know it's always um. You know, we we kind

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Speaker 1: of when we're of age, we think, okay, we can

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Speaker 1: make this rational decision. And if you start to freak

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Speaker 1: out if you know a six year old or a

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Speaker 1: ten year old or thirteen year old is doing it,

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Speaker 1: that seems to me to be the cue that maybe

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Speaker 1: something is wrong. If we are kind of just made

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Speaker 1: by these articles that say, you know, a mom takes

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Speaker 1: her ten year old to get a bikini. Ax, then

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Speaker 1: maybe that's not a great sign. Yeah, that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of disturbing. But you know what, you can read article

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Speaker 1: after article that makes it seem like every single person

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Speaker 1: in the world, um, who is female has no pubic hair.

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Speaker 1: But two thousand and ten we get a scholarly study

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Speaker 1: of the International Society for Sexual Medicine which says, you

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Speaker 1: know what, it's not as common as you think. Give

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Speaker 1: us some stats mine, all right, So what we've got

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Speaker 1: here is a study group of women, so pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: broad range, pretty pretty large sample size, broad range of

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Speaker 1: ages from about eighteen two in their fifties, um, A

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Speaker 1: range of people who are sexually active and not sexually active,

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Speaker 1: range of people who are straight, gay, bisexual. Pretty what

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to lay out is pretty pretty large sample size.

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Speaker 1: The people who are most likely to engage in total

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Speaker 1: removal of their hair are the eighteen to twenty four

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Speaker 1: year olds. Uh. They might range up to thirty eight

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Speaker 1: percent of total hair removal in one month, and basically

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Speaker 1: it declines as you get older the chances that you

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Speaker 1: will remove your pupid care. So it seems to be

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Speaker 1: very young phenomenon. So the question then becomes for these researchers,

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Speaker 1: is it something you age out of or is it

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Speaker 1: something that maybe as you grow up and get married

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Speaker 1: you care less about um. And then as you get older,

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Speaker 1: you might be more likely to shave than you would

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Speaker 1: be to wax. You might be more likely to just wax,

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Speaker 1: you know, one time or two times in a year

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Speaker 1: as opposed to every month. The monthly thing is really

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Speaker 1: big among the younger ones, and then the older you get,

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Speaker 1: the us likely you are to keep it up. And

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Speaker 1: there's also a correlation they found between the amount of

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Speaker 1: grooming that you do and how often you will groom

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Speaker 1: down there and your relationship status, um, whether or not

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Speaker 1: you're sexually active, and specifically whether or not you are

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Speaker 1: orally sexually active. Yes, someone's gonna get really up close

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Speaker 1: and personal. You tend to keep it a little more trim.

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Speaker 1: But what these researchers go to great pains to point

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Speaker 1: out is that there is no one uh normal pubic

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Speaker 1: hair arrangement. You know. They went and sort with the

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Speaker 1: thesis that all these articles are telling us that the

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Speaker 1: majority of women get all our pubic hair removed, and

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Speaker 1: that just wasn't the case from the size sample group.

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Speaker 1: But there's a whole range of people who sometimes removed it,

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Speaker 1: sometimes removed a little bit of it, but not all

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Speaker 1: of it. And yeah, about a third of the people

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Speaker 1: who did remove it all the time. But again, no norm.

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Speaker 1: When is there ever a norm in terms of what

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Speaker 1: women do? Well? I think that there that it might

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Speaker 1: be a cultural beauty standard that's been established, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is doing it or that

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Speaker 1: we have to give into it. If you want to

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Speaker 1: go get your pubic hare waxed off, then do it,

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Speaker 1: you know. If you want to get it permanently removed

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Speaker 1: with electrolysis, finally do it. You know, with all these things,

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Speaker 1: ask yourself why you do it? Yeah, ask yourself, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: ask yourself why you do it? And recognize to your

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Speaker 1: point that even though it might see culture might have us, um,

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Speaker 1: think that everybody's doing it. And in order to be

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Speaker 1: an attractive sexually desirable woman, we don't need to have

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Speaker 1: hair down there. That's not necessarily the case. Men weigh

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Speaker 1: in and other you know, and women weigh in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we want to know what you guys think, um about

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Speaker 1: this very pertinent issue in our society. Today a pubic

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Speaker 1: hare waxing because it is pertinent. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't talk about it because it's it's your pubes. But

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Speaker 1: I think we need to talk about it. So send

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Speaker 1: us your thought s mom stuff at how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com. And let's read an email. Well, I have

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Speaker 1: an email here from Julia and it is on our

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Speaker 1: episode about bicycles. And she writes, my friend and I

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed your podcast on women and bicycles. Well, thank you, Julia.

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Speaker 1: I was remembering scenes from the movies A Midsummer Night

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Speaker 1: Stream and The Road to Wellville. Um. However, I was

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Speaker 1: surprised that you didn't do your research on modern developments

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Speaker 1: in bicycle saddles. Here in Seattle. I see plenty of

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Speaker 1: women on bikes, and it's perhaps due to all the

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Speaker 1: great sporting goods stores we have here. For at least

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Speaker 1: seven years now, women's bicycle seats have been available which

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Speaker 1: feature a divot or a hole in a seat in

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Speaker 1: the position where would otherwise rub against the volva. I

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Speaker 1: haven't had a friction problem since I've had one of

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Speaker 1: these saddles, even when I participated in the annual Summer

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Speaker 1: Solstice Naked bike ride through the city. Welly, we need

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Speaker 1: to take a trip to Seattle. I lived in Seattle.

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Speaker 1: I saw that you did. Yeah, how was it? It's

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Speaker 1: fun and it's not as scandals as you may think.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's wearing like body paint their kids there to participate. No,

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Speaker 1: I just observed. Additionally, women should make sure that they

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Speaker 1: get a bike that really fits and puts them in

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Speaker 1: a good cycling position so they aren't sliding around in

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Speaker 1: the saddle very much. Even if you're unusually short or tall,

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Speaker 1: or have short or long arms, many bike shops can

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Speaker 1: customize your bike. Ladies should get out there. Traffic is

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Speaker 1: not nearly as scary as you think it is once

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Speaker 1: you get used to it. So thank you for the

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Speaker 1: advice and the encouragement. Julia, and if you have thoughts

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Speaker 1: to send our way again. Our email addresses mom Stuff

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Speaker 1: at how stuff Works dot com. You can also head

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Speaker 1: over to Facebook and like us, comment, interact with other listeners,

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Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at Mom's Stuff Podcasts, and read

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Speaker 1: our blog during the week, It's stuff Mom Never told

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Speaker 1: You from how Stuff Works dot com. Be sure to

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Speaker 1: check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.

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Speaker 1: Join how staff Work staff as we explore the most

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Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The houstef Works iPhone

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Speaker 1: app has a ride. Download it today on iTunes. Brought

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Speaker 1: to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready,

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