Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
Speaker 1: classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Speaker 2: Yo, y'all check it out.
Speaker 1: It's Fonte fantigolo here with this week's QLs classic. All right,
Speaker 1: this week we talked to the man, the member of
Speaker 1: the legend, Marley Mal. This one was originally released January eleventh,
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: And listen, it's Mally Mal.
Speaker 1: You already know what it is, Marlly Mal Juice crew,
Speaker 1: you talking everything ll mamasa to knock you out. He
Speaker 1: shared some of the studio secrets and talks about how
Speaker 1: he earned the spot as a legend in the really
Speaker 1: New York City scene. This is an incredible episode with
Speaker 1: one of my favorite producers of all time. Get into it.
Speaker 3: QLs classic.
Speaker 2: Alright you Peaci.
Speaker 4: Primo self Primo rod ca so Primo self Premo, roll
Speaker 4: call Suprema something. Tell me Selpremo roll call Suprema something
Speaker 4: something Supremo roll call.
Speaker 1: My name is Questo. Yeah, I know the time there
Speaker 1: weep in the rocks. Yeah, at the jump of a dime.
Speaker 4: Suprema something, Supremo role called Suprema son something, Supremo role.
Speaker 3: My name is fante. Yeah, I got so much soul.
Speaker 1: Yeah, West Love Supreme.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we in control God.
Speaker 4: Suprema something something, Supremo, Role call, Suprema something Supremo, role call.
Speaker 1: My name is Steve, yeah, without a flaw. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: call me sugar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Supremo, roll call, Suprema Son Supremo, roll call Bill.
Speaker 5: Yeah, to the extreme yea dropping bars Yeah, Chris Love Supreme,
Speaker 5: ro car Suprema.
Speaker 4: Son, Suprema, roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo, roll call rhyming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have no skills. Yeah, so what's my name?
Speaker 4: Yeah, call me, Oh, Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Supremo.
Speaker 6: Yeah, wit New Year's Blessings. Yeah, I can't wait to play.
Speaker 4: Yeah, roll Suprema, So Suprema, roll call Suprema So Supremo.
Speaker 4: Role called.
Speaker 3: My name is Morley. Yeah, it's all on me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: when we get through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's it for me?
Speaker 4: Oh, Sprema Son, Son Supremo, roll call Suprema Son, Son,
Speaker 4: Suprema Role, Suprema, Supremo, Role, Suprema Son Supremo Role.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode
Speaker 1: of Course Love Supreme, the first of this new year.
Speaker 3: Happy New Year to all of you, Supreme.
Speaker 1: Yes we made it. We we Yes it did not
Speaker 1: drink ourselves at all. Last year, we did not drink
Speaker 1: ourselves whatsoever. No, I'm your host, quest Love, and we
Speaker 1: have another really great show in store for you. On
Speaker 1: the show today, we have one of the most important
Speaker 1: people in hip hop history. And that's not an exaggeration. No,
Speaker 1: but I'm known to exaggerate. I'm known to go full
Speaker 1: extreme on everything. But no, seriously, you know, no, seriously,
Speaker 1: I would no for real, this this this, this man
Speaker 1: was a pioneer and and he is history. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to make it sound like it's it's it's
Speaker 1: old in the past, but this man is one of
Speaker 1: the most important figures in mind. His DNA runs through everybody, Yes,
Speaker 1: in the development of some of the best moments in
Speaker 1: hip hop history. Hey, hey, hey, I don't breathe dust. Now,
Speaker 1: let's welcome our elder tell let's just give it up
Speaker 1: for Mollie. Mam, Hey, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 4: It's going on?
Speaker 3: Lest Hello, how are you?
Speaker 2: How are you? Thank you?
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming?
Speaker 3: Uh you know to be here?
Speaker 1: You know you called and I gotta come here. At
Speaker 1: the drop of a dime. You came, you came. Yes, Uh,
Speaker 1: we have so many questions, uh for starters. I'm really
Speaker 1: glad that you're here because for all of the folklore
Speaker 1: that we've heard about hip hop history in the Bronx
Speaker 1: and the in the Bronx and the Bronx and the
Speaker 1: Bronx and the Bronx, I know that the other girls
Speaker 1: have their history too, and that's rarely, rarely.
Speaker 3: Rarely heard about, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 1: And I know that you were born in Queens Queens
Speaker 1: Queensbridge Projects, you know, ninety six buildings of terror AKA,
Speaker 1: you know, But that's why I was brought up in
Speaker 1: l I C. Queens Bridge Projects. Really, so you were
Speaker 1: born there and you born and raised there.
Speaker 3: I lived there all my life.
Speaker 1: I mean my mom's she was there before I was born,
Speaker 1: you know, and then you know, then when I'm when
Speaker 1: I was born, then we moved to another apartment, and
Speaker 1: then we was there for forty more years.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to be able to get my mom's
Speaker 1: up a house in my career later on in life
Speaker 1: and finally move out the project. But my moms was
Speaker 1: there for over forty forty joints. Wow, So what was hardcore?
Speaker 1: So what was what is the history of hip hop
Speaker 1: coming to queens? Like to hear to hear the focalos
Speaker 1: say it was only in the Bronx and only in
Speaker 1: the Bronx, But I mean for you to be as
Speaker 1: legendary as you were, you are you telling me that
Speaker 1: you had to travel all the way to the Bronx
Speaker 1: to get well. The first time I ever heard hip hop,
Speaker 1: it was I was in high school because we had
Speaker 1: DJs and queens. There was more on the on the
Speaker 1: disco tip, you know, because when you when you when
Speaker 1: you look at hip hop and what they did for
Speaker 1: and coined the phrase hip hop around what they were doing.
Speaker 1: It was a little different from what everybody else was
Speaker 1: doing in the city. You know, when Cool Herk had
Speaker 1: his parties, he was playing the break parts of the
Speaker 1: of the music and queens they was playing the whole mute,
Speaker 1: the whole record, the whole song, the whole song, but
Speaker 1: they was taking the break sections. And you know that's
Speaker 1: why I could say that. You know, everybody had DJs,
Speaker 1: everybody had their movement, everybody had they toasters on the mic.
Speaker 1: But I could tell you that that that hip hop element.
Speaker 1: It definitely came from Cool Herk because he was the
Speaker 1: first person. And maybe it wasn't on beat, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I heard the tape site right right,
Speaker 1: really right, It wasn't really on beat, but you know
Speaker 1: they were.
Speaker 3: They brought something different.
Speaker 1: They was playing at the break big part of Apache
Speaker 1: where in Queens would have played the whole record. So
Speaker 1: did you just come out the gate love of music?
Speaker 1: Like how did music and spending your life like in
Speaker 1: your childhood? It got to me because my older brother
Speaker 1: Larry Ladd in the in the record The Bridge last year,
Speaker 1: it was like Jappie Jack Gas cool brother by the
Speaker 1: name of Gas t Tom and then my brother Larry Ladd.
Speaker 1: It was early DJs in Queensbridge and the Bridge record
Speaker 1: because you know, in the Bridge record, we was just stating,
Speaker 1: you know, what we saw growing up, right, So we
Speaker 1: were stating the things that we saw. We never said
Speaker 1: hip hop started in that rhyme. Yeah we know that,
Speaker 1: but you know, we just was describing things we've seen
Speaker 1: growing up. And my older brother was a DJ and
Speaker 1: you know, my stepfather kind of you know, talked them
Speaker 1: out of being the DJ and like yo, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no real money in that. You don't
Speaker 1: going to service man going to service. So he went
Speaker 1: to service bathing, you know. But it was all good
Speaker 1: because he went to the service and he worked at
Speaker 1: NASA and retired from NASA, so he did really well.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I took the DJ route who records. Yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: you know my record, my my library's kind of extensive
Speaker 1: because I got their records when he left. I had
Speaker 1: a tachi, I had, you know, a lot of the
Speaker 1: records that I was sampling was their records. So you
Speaker 1: have a natural version, right had their original the African
Speaker 1: woman with the other on the other side, the colorful one.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, okay, So what.
Speaker 1: Was digging like back then? If there wasn't a thing
Speaker 1: that's digging culture. I mean, for me, digging was just
Speaker 1: going to my brother's creates at that stuff they used
Speaker 1: to play because they were dancer guys. They was you know,
Speaker 1: there was there was break dancers before break dances. Everybody
Speaker 1: was a dancer. On every DJ crew had like their
Speaker 1: dance crew with them. I could just say it like
Speaker 1: there you go. So in older records they used to play.
Speaker 1: Digging for me was just going through some of my
Speaker 1: brother's old records that they used to play, because I
Speaker 1: used to see them play a lot of records, and
Speaker 1: by the time I got to be a DJ, I
Speaker 1: would remember a lot of stuff that would make the
Speaker 1: party move. And I would just go right into my
Speaker 1: brother's records and then h to be honest, a lot
Speaker 1: of the records that I would find and start sampling.
Speaker 1: Then they would make those breakbeat records. After this around
Speaker 1: my brother, I started DJing around about seventy eight or
Speaker 1: seventy seven. I got the bug. There was like a
Speaker 1: song called Disco seventy seven out I had drums on it,
Speaker 1: and you know, and I heard that. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, And I played at a you know, a
Speaker 1: house party in Queensboro. It was probably around that time.
Speaker 1: But before that, my brother and them was dj and
Speaker 1: in the park. They was the first DJs to come
Speaker 1: out in Queensbridge. It was the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: ground zero hip hop was my brother and them doing
Speaker 1: they break they dancing and all that in the middle
Speaker 1: of the block. And so that, you know, then everybody
Speaker 1: else started DJing out there. So would they They would
Speaker 1: throw the parties in, Yeah, they would throw the part
Speaker 1: and Queens and Queensbridge Center, or they would be on
Speaker 1: the block first. Then it got so big way they
Speaker 1: had to take it to the river park across the street,
Speaker 1: Queensbridge Park. So how in my in my mind, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking the folklore of you know, the park jam that
Speaker 1: you always hear hip hop a story and speak of
Speaker 1: all right, being as though you've seen every level of
Speaker 1: presentation from the park jams to full blowing concerts straight
Speaker 1: from the tapes. You gotta start with the tapes that
Speaker 1: was just circulating the city first. But what I want
Speaker 1: to know is what were the sound systems really like? Oh, okay, right, well,
Speaker 1: I could tell you, to be honest, I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: go down the line. The Bronx they had like a
Speaker 1: lot of house speakers put together, like a lot of
Speaker 1: people putting this, you know, like housing them together. Ye're
Speaker 1: putting their house speakers together, piling them up, taping them together.
Speaker 1: And that's how they used to come out, which was
Speaker 1: cool because you had to use what you had, right
Speaker 1: and Queens they had a little bit more money so
Speaker 1: that the sound systems was a little better. The King
Speaker 1: Charles and these guys used to come out with you know,
Speaker 1: they had. They had rich Al Long systems, really rich
Speaker 1: store them like they believe me, King Charles and them,
Speaker 1: they they had I believe they had the Richid Long system.
Speaker 1: And you know Twins had a Richid Long Sis. Disco
Speaker 1: Twins had Richid Long births. The Queen's Guys was coming
Speaker 1: out with the birth is Brooklyn now since the Caribbean
Speaker 1: and Brooklyn was always bumping forever. You know, there was
Speaker 1: always Eastern Parkway, so that rubbed off on the DJs.
Speaker 1: So so when you was coming through on Eastern Parkway
Speaker 1: with the Jamaican music, somebody figured out, Yo, you don't
Speaker 1: got to be playing Jamaican music with this music, with
Speaker 1: this sound, you could.
Speaker 3: Put hip You could put Thisco, regular records, regular records.
Speaker 1: So Brooklyn was banging with systems because Eastern Parkway was
Speaker 1: always the ship okay, and and it kind of rubbed
Speaker 1: off because you got to think about, this is what's
Speaker 1: never mentioned in hip hop and the creation of hip hop.
Speaker 3: And I was formed, Jamaica has a big influence on
Speaker 3: how it was started.
Speaker 1: Here you look at the main people, the main players, Hirk,
Speaker 1: you know the system guys. You know the sound system
Speaker 1: guys used to come out the you know, what's his name,
Speaker 1: Pete DJ Jones and you know all these guys used
Speaker 1: to come out with big systems, right what's his name?
Speaker 1: King Charles was Jamaican. He had one of the biggest
Speaker 1: systems in the city back in the days. So just
Speaker 1: let our listeners know in Jamaica, like the more bass
Speaker 1: you had, the more bass cabins you had, you know,
Speaker 1: stomach rumbling inducing, right, Basis that was the important factor
Speaker 1: right now when you speak with cool Herk, he was
Speaker 1: basically probably jamming, bringing his music out. For what he's
Speaker 1: seen when he's in Jamaica as a kid, the music
Speaker 1: was always out. He got to America, you was boring
Speaker 1: around here bringing the music out. You're talking about, I see,
Speaker 1: let's go to the park, Let's take it to the
Speaker 1: let's have a party of it, bring the music out,
Speaker 1: the sounds.
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Let me show you what
Speaker 3: I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: He did it. Then he probably got bored and playing
Speaker 1: the whole record to get down part Oh, that's the
Speaker 1: part of everybody get excited about. I'm gonna do a
Speaker 1: whole party, which is playing nose. That's what he said,
Speaker 1: and that's how it started. I just gonna play the
Speaker 1: hot part of the records. That's it. You were playing
Speaker 1: these parks in seventy seven. No, I was watching the
Speaker 1: Disco Twins, my brother and them was playing probably about
Speaker 1: seventy five ish, seventy four ish and three ish. By
Speaker 1: then my brother went to the service. I started seeing
Speaker 1: the Disco Twins come I got in high school. I
Speaker 1: heard rap for the first time, and you know, I
Speaker 1: had formed my own little crew. I was a little
Speaker 1: DJ around the way. We wasn't we wasn't doing we
Speaker 1: wasn't we wasn't rocking break beats. We just we was
Speaker 1: doing what we saw. Okay, you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So we saw the Disco Twins in our area, so
Speaker 1: obviously we was following that. But when I heard rap
Speaker 1: and got my crew together, the game changed. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that around seventy eight, seventy nine, it hits you or like,
Speaker 1: how are those tapes come from the Bronx? How do
Speaker 1: they go to queens? Like?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: So it was it was weird because those tapes in
Speaker 1: the early part of hip hop, man, you know, when
Speaker 1: they was only doing it in the Bronx and Harlem,
Speaker 1: those tapes would go throughout the city like fucking like
Speaker 1: the Internet, right, they were spread throughout town like the Internet.
Speaker 1: Everybody would be coming to school with one of those tapes,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was the greatest thing about that time.
Speaker 1: You know, the schools were so integrated in New York
Speaker 1: City at that point. You have people from Harlem in
Speaker 1: your school. You have people from the Bronx in your school.
Speaker 1: You know, you have people from Queens. So one good
Speaker 1: thing I can say about the schools in New York
Speaker 1: City you was able to see everybody's style because everybody
Speaker 1: was it was all integrated. You know, people was from
Speaker 1: Manhattan in your school, so you got to see what
Speaker 1: they was doing in Manhattan. I was in a school
Speaker 1: called Manhattan High. We act dudes from the Bronx. So
Speaker 1: what would they doing in lunchtime? If somebody wasn't over
Speaker 1: there beating on the table, somebody was coming through a
Speaker 1: big radio playing a breakout tape with echoes, and everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I heard somebody rhyming over dance with
Speaker 1: the drummers beat. It changed my life, really, yeah, that
Speaker 1: changed my life.
Speaker 2: I heard it.
Speaker 1: It was this way before rappers light and yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this before rappers. I heard it was just a breakout
Speaker 1: tape and you know it was dancing drummers beat and
Speaker 1: of course they was cutting it off beat because you
Speaker 1: know they ain't probably didn't have Q yet. But he
Speaker 1: was out there talking and going to freak out out
Speaker 1: and they had the echo on it. It was burnt.
Speaker 1: He was going yeah, yeah, yes, yes, y'all y'all.
Speaker 3: And the echo out YO.
Speaker 1: Me and Polo looked at each other because Polo was
Speaker 1: in my school DJ he was in my school.
Speaker 3: We looked at each other like, yo, what is wow?
Speaker 3: And Yo.
Speaker 1: The rest was like it was yo. I went and
Speaker 1: started a crew, a short shot crew in Queensbridge after that, and.
Speaker 3: I was on my way.
Speaker 1: At Queensbridge is this time like if you live there
Speaker 1: all your life, why are you recognizing a three year
Speaker 1: old Nazia Jones? Do you see that's navee old prodigy
Speaker 1: the little the toy guns in the window. I wasn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't quite like that.
Speaker 1: The funny thing about Proligy wasn't from the Bridge but Havoc.
Speaker 1: He actually lived in Burnoff Fowler's building because it's so
Speaker 1: much burnoff foul from the Peace Boys that also yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's from QB. He sings, he sings with the Rolling
Speaker 1: Stones right now. Yeah, yeah, so he they lived in
Speaker 1: the same building. Damn like lightning struck twice in that building.
Speaker 1: So the Peace Boys, that whole family is from that.
Speaker 3: Burno Off Fouler and his brother Fred and yeah and
Speaker 3: his sister. I never knew that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from Queensland.
Speaker 3: Now. I was in the next building from that making
Speaker 3: all my hits.
Speaker 1: Really yeah.
Speaker 3: That was on twelfth Street.
Speaker 1: So I used to hear Havoc's uncle blasting the music
Speaker 1: out of his window on the fourth because the Fowlers,
Speaker 1: I think they lived on the first or the second
Speaker 1: in the building. And then the Anything Dimples delved in
Speaker 1: the next building. So it was a lot happening on
Speaker 1: twelve Street right there. So you would have the system
Speaker 1: battles of the windows, yes, yes, yes, and right in
Speaker 1: the windows your own radio. It was battling right out
Speaker 1: the window. And that's that was the house where I
Speaker 1: made like Everybody's president. That was the house where I
Speaker 1: would watch the people walk across the block and go
Speaker 1: to the train stage and if they wouldn't stop dancing,
Speaker 1: if they wouldn't stop and start dancing, I would scrap
Speaker 1: the beat.
Speaker 3: What right, So I knew I was blasting out, nobody
Speaker 3: would stop and go.
Speaker 1: Oh oh oh, I'll probably scrap the beat and start
Speaker 1: something else until I see somebody do that.
Speaker 3: And those are the most of the beasts that I kept.
Speaker 6: That's dope research, Like that's.
Speaker 3: Like we should go back.
Speaker 1: It's like your very gordy sandwich to yeah, yeah, dolloaded sandwich.
Speaker 1: Where do you make the transition from? Because I guess
Speaker 1: the first time that I heard of you that a
Speaker 1: Leams record was really really big in Philadelphia and that
Speaker 1: was le Roy Burgess, right, yes, it definitely wasn't the Isleens.
Speaker 1: What's funny? What's funny about? That's like that's where I
Speaker 1: was headed before. Kind of well, okay, explain explain to
Speaker 1: me the edit culture because I know that between like
Speaker 1: eighty two and eighty four it was like the Latin rascals. Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, who else were was in that world where
Speaker 1: they used those like the art noise hard drums and
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like.
Speaker 3: Like jelly Bean was in that. So you were about
Speaker 3: to go that route first.
Speaker 1: I was there because you know, you got to think,
Speaker 1: like you know, the great Daryl Payne also lived on
Speaker 1: my block in Queensbridge too, so he wrote a lot
Speaker 1: of records like thanks to you. You know, yes, I
Speaker 1: can't even sit there and mention records. But he lived
Speaker 1: on the block. So Andre Booth was there. It was
Speaker 1: like it was so musical in Queensbridge. These guys had
Speaker 1: records before me on the radio.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Andre Booth made this beat his mind, rock shock and
Speaker 1: all of that. All these dudes lived in my hood.
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at these guys like, wow, these are gods.
Speaker 1: Their music is on the radio.
Speaker 3: I'm not even a DJ yet.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to hang around these guys, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and you know, and and and and figure
Speaker 1: out what they're doing in the studio. And Andre gave
Speaker 1: me a shot to hang out, and he introduced me
Speaker 1: to Arthur Baker. And that's how I started, you know,
Speaker 1: that's how I started. Matter of fact, the first session
Speaker 1: I ever went to with him was Jazzy's Insation. So
Speaker 1: you were an apprentice of Arthur Baker. Yes, yea Baker
Speaker 1: was dog the things you learned, So Arthur Baker is
Speaker 1: I mean pretty much uh, you know, planning from planning, breakers, revenge,
Speaker 1: on the beat Street and I believe did he not
Speaker 1: have a handing candy girls? Of course? Of course.
Speaker 3: Addition, that's why Dimple's d record was on street Wise Party.
Speaker 1: Okay my first record, boy, I thought it was Sucker
Speaker 1: DJ's Yeah, Sucker DJ's DJs that was on Party Time,
Speaker 1: the Party Time. It was on Party Time label. That
Speaker 1: was because I remember it's yours being on the Party
Speaker 1: Time def jam right, So who owned Party Time? That
Speaker 1: was Arthur Baker, I believe, and I think later on
Speaker 1: they broke off and went to with Russell with that.
Speaker 1: I do believe. You mean to tell me that Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin and Arthur ber Baker could have been a combo
Speaker 1: and it fell apart and then I don't know the
Speaker 1: things you learn, yeahs to investigate. Yeah, so it could
Speaker 1: have been something by that point, like what how legendary
Speaker 1: was Arthur Baker's status?
Speaker 3: To be honest, when he first heard My Dimples the demo,
Speaker 3: he was working in a warehouse in a story of
Speaker 3: Queen's Okay, we want to go see him at a
Speaker 3: warehouse at lunchtime. So it was nothing popping from yet,
Speaker 3: not even Planet Rock or it was starting the label
Speaker 3: because we had Party time, and that was the beginning
Speaker 3: of the label. That was like one of the first
Speaker 3: two records off the label. So when he first started
Speaker 3: dropping Hiss dropping his joints, he heard my demo at
Speaker 3: lunch break in the story at a warehouse next to
Speaker 3: the story of projects.
Speaker 1: So he's working what equipment now around? I guess it's
Speaker 1: eighty three, eighty two, eighty three or what equipment are
Speaker 1: you using this? At this time, I had a four
Speaker 1: tracker set in my house, a task scan that barret
Speaker 1: from my dude, Paul. It wasn't even mine, okay, so
Speaker 1: you were just and I made mally scratch off that one.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, like, what what drum machine? What drum
Speaker 1: I had? Mally scratch? I made it off of my
Speaker 1: eight oh eight triggered by my Corg SD. It was
Speaker 1: a sample of our delay for one second sampler our delay,
Speaker 1: and it had but the important part on it, it
Speaker 1: had trigger inputs on the back, so that enabled me
Speaker 1: to trigger off my eight or eight to whatever sound
Speaker 1: I had in there. So that's how I was able
Speaker 1: to make my beats.
Speaker 3: So this is leading me to science.
Speaker 1: It's science. This is leading me to believe that you
Speaker 1: actually read the manual instructions on your drum machines, because
Speaker 1: with most people I know, they were just like I
Speaker 1: taught myself for blah blah blah taught me. I learned triggering, triggering,
Speaker 1: I call it triggerology from working at Unique Recording, because
Speaker 1: you know, if I was working there with authoring them,
Speaker 1: believe me, all every record that was ever made and
Speaker 1: that eraror was made at Unique, So was he working
Speaker 1: on there was there was already into triggering, Like there
Speaker 1: was already into triggering drum sounds on all they dance stuff.
Speaker 3: Wow, already?
Speaker 1: So can you explain how that because it sounded so
Speaker 1: it sounds so futuristic, I mean, especially in eighty three
Speaker 1: eighty four. I mean this is pretty much the club
Speaker 1: break dance soundtrack of that period, right, but this is
Speaker 1: not made with musicians. I mean, first of all, were
Speaker 1: you just accepting the fact that there has to be
Speaker 1: a new way to make music and make dance music
Speaker 1: and all this technology I have to learn?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean especially at that studio, Like yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I was very very very fortunate because the guy Bobby
Speaker 1: Nathan that own Unique, he was like a tech head.
Speaker 1: Anything that came out he would want to be the
Speaker 1: first studio in New York to have it. Come make
Speaker 1: your shit over here, because we got the Cinclavia. They
Speaker 1: had the Sintclavia before anybody had it. They had the Cinclavia,
Speaker 1: they had the Emulator. Feel like they had that. They
Speaker 1: had everything before everybody. They had the Emulator, they had everything.
Speaker 1: That's how I was playing the Emulator and Release Yourself.
Speaker 1: They didn't even have a twelve hundred out yet.
Speaker 3: Let me, I do want to play that version?
Speaker 1: What makes it? Because you're not you didn't produce the
Speaker 1: actual Leroy Burgess deuced right with them and them and
Speaker 1: the Aleans brothers, the Twin brothers. What's so weird about
Speaker 1: this is that Women's got the Philadelphia like this is
Speaker 1: on side too. It's like the Dove version, right, but
Speaker 1: somehow that became the only verson to play. I've never
Speaker 1: even heard the actual proper the radio edit, like so yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: this this definitely ruled my summer in in Philadelphia during
Speaker 1: all the eighties. Uh is Release Yourself the remix by
Speaker 1: the what they were called the Fantastic Yeah, the Fantastic Alleens.
Speaker 1: You gotta put that that sus Love Supreme only on fand.
Speaker 3: So that was release yourself.
Speaker 1: One of the was this your first remix or that
Speaker 1: was that was actually one of my first remixes that
Speaker 1: I've done. That was one of the hottest ones. And
Speaker 1: that's where I was going musically, That's where I was going.
Speaker 1: I was not even thinking about hip hop. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: read in your interview with NPR a couple years ago
Speaker 1: you were saying that you were kind of hit it
Speaker 1: more towards the electronics side of things. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, I grew up.
Speaker 1: With for Giorgio Moroder. Bro Georgio Moroda made me a producer.
Speaker 1: You made me want to get into technology because they
Speaker 1: was doing things way before everybody in Germany.
Speaker 3: You gotta hear they was triggering in the sixties.
Speaker 1: Come on, sorry, I'm looking at these guys like, yo,
Speaker 1: they way ahead everybody over here. I'm trying to be
Speaker 1: like them. How did they make I feel love? Sound
Speaker 1: like that?
Speaker 3: It bugged me out.
Speaker 1: So by that point, your goal was to elevate club music,
Speaker 1: and like, what was your feelings of hip hop at
Speaker 1: the time you were looking at hip hop. I didn't
Speaker 1: even say I didn't like hip hop. I was wait,
Speaker 1: what I did not expect. I liked hip hop tapes.
Speaker 1: I love the hip hop tapes, but I didn't like
Speaker 1: hip hop records. I didn't really like hip hop records.
Speaker 1: I was like, so when you hear when you heard
Speaker 1: love rap, you weren't like, I gotta grab for these
Speaker 1: love Wrap that was later on. Love Wrap was a
Speaker 1: little bit well no, No, I just meant like there
Speaker 1: was some note that was that was moment that was
Speaker 1: kind of like later on. But the early joints, like
Speaker 1: the King Tins come on. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Even even even as a DJ, you didn't think like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this will keep the party going, this is what the
Speaker 1: kids want. Nah, that is shocking, God of hip hop,
Speaker 1: because I have to spend time, right, you have to
Speaker 1: think about the time records that That's why I had
Speaker 1: to That's why I come change things. But hear me out.
Speaker 3: You gotta hear me out. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Cause first I was like, yo, I don't I don't really,
Speaker 1: I don't like where it's going. Because when I first
Speaker 1: heard rap, it was off of a tape. It was scratching,
Speaker 1: it was echoes, it was breakbeats. It was like an
Speaker 1: occasional gunshot from from a a fight at the you know,
Speaker 1: because the tapes you see sometimes and with a shootout.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, everybody scuffling and running and it stand to
Speaker 1: the tape, Oh it was a shootout.
Speaker 3: Oh the party was but anyway, But you.
Speaker 1: Know, so once it got on Wax, you felt it
Speaker 1: got too horigonized, and I felt that it didn't sound
Speaker 1: like what I fell in love with. It wasn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't James Brown.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying, because I see the tapes
Speaker 1: I was getting, come on you you throwing on funky
Speaker 1: drummer and they rhyming with the echoes over that.
Speaker 3: Now you want to give me a.
Speaker 1: Band playing good Times And I'm supposed to be impressed
Speaker 1: after I was been cutting up good Times and seeing
Speaker 1: the crowd react to how they reacted to the real
Speaker 1: stuff and the real deep and a realm on it.
Speaker 3: So when the records came out, I was like, no, it.
Speaker 1: Ain't like that. That's weird because I mean, having no
Speaker 1: knowledge of that. I mean I would listen to I
Speaker 1: would listen to something like uh okay, take like sugar
Speaker 1: Hill Groove. I knew about catch groove because I grew
Speaker 1: up next door to a DJ, so I always remembered
Speaker 1: hearing right and always knows he always played the like
Speaker 1: our rooms were adjacent to each other and our households.
Speaker 1: So I always remember that break. As a drummer, I
Speaker 1: remember that break and didn't put two and two together
Speaker 1: that like, oh, okay, sugar Hill is just approximating. It
Speaker 1: didn't hit me until I was older that I got
Speaker 1: what they were doing, that the technology wasn't there to
Speaker 1: really to really reproduce what that moment was. So you're
Speaker 1: saying that by that point nothing on sugar Hill. I
Speaker 1: was no. I was not impressed because you know, even
Speaker 1: when I have the DJ for Magic, I wasn't. I
Speaker 1: wasn't a hip hop DJ. I was a blender. I
Speaker 1: was playing in the clubs already. I was doing disco.
Speaker 6: So what was the first record that you heard on
Speaker 6: wax beyond your own that you was like, all right, maybe.
Speaker 1: It could have been around maybe around around love rap
Speaker 1: because of the beat was so hot. That sounded like
Speaker 1: a breakbeat to me. So that's when it got a
Speaker 1: little better. But the earliest shit I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: stomach it. I was like, nah, this ain't going nowhere, but.
Speaker 3: Yo, beat this.
Speaker 1: She ain't going nowhere, I'm saying in my mind. But
Speaker 1: you know, it kept going and then mister Magic started
Speaker 1: playing it. And I wasn't even listening to mister Magic.
Speaker 1: So was he established? Yeah, before you even started ding
Speaker 1: with him, Yes, he was. He was on the radio
Speaker 1: playing rap music already. I was a disco DJ playing
Speaker 1: at Pegasus. He was on the radio playing rat Okay.
Speaker 1: At what point was he on the radio? He went
Speaker 1: to WHBI I had to be I had to be
Speaker 1: like had to be like seventies. It was in the
Speaker 1: seventies or something like, so he has long history, has
Speaker 1: seventy eight seventy nine is maybe early eighties something like that.
Speaker 1: He started going on the radio. But at that point
Speaker 1: I wasn't even into the I wasn't even I was
Speaker 1: one of the believe that wasn't going nowhere until it
Speaker 1: started getting a little better.
Speaker 3: When did it get better?
Speaker 2: To you?
Speaker 1: Sucker mcs ah tell me about Larry Like right, Sucker
Speaker 1: mcs gave me hope. It gave me so much hope.
Speaker 1: I made Sucker DJs my first record.
Speaker 3: That's a mighty statement.
Speaker 1: Uh you know what I'm saying, I want I want
Speaker 1: I want to run Socker DJ's real. So Dimple's D
Speaker 1: from your what building? When she in She's from twelve
Speaker 1: Street and Queens Bridge.
Speaker 3: She lived in that same Royd buildings, burn Off, Foul
Speaker 3: and Havoc and I.
Speaker 1: Lived in Okay. So this is your official first production,
Speaker 1: my official first the response to soccers from run DMC.
Speaker 1: I was m the night I was sell good, so
Speaker 1: the film was right.
Speaker 6: I came to the party for a different kind of
Speaker 6: actions and next thing.
Speaker 1: I know, I was doing with Michael Jason out.
Speaker 3: This is Quest Love Supreme on Pandora.
Speaker 1: You just heard Sucker DJ's by Dimple's D and today's
Speaker 1: guest legendary DJ and hip hop producer Marley mal This
Speaker 1: is on a lyndrum Lynn Drum. I even THOUGHTS and
Speaker 1: I went to Unique, I rented two hours of time.
Speaker 1: It was thirty five dollars an hour.
Speaker 3: You had to rent it.
Speaker 1: Yes, I had to rent it. You couldn't do it
Speaker 1: by on their back. No, no, no, I wasn't even
Speaker 1: working there, y'all. I just lived in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: The studio was up the street.
Speaker 1: I heard they had a Lynn drum in there, and
Speaker 1: I and I got it was thirty five hours an hour.
Speaker 1: I got two hours of time. I went there and
Speaker 1: tapped out a few beats and recorded them on my
Speaker 1: four track, and I took the four track home and.
Speaker 3: She did her vocals in my living room. Wow.
Speaker 1: So the setup in your house, I believe the Rock
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame has a.
Speaker 3: Matching. Have you seen it?
Speaker 1: It's like a mock setup of what your studio would
Speaker 1: look like, at least at the when I was visiting
Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. This is like
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: What is your home system looking like? At this point,
Speaker 1: I had like a little four track, a sunboard and
Speaker 1: that was it. So what were your neighbors thinking at
Speaker 1: this moment? They probably was thinking, well, I wish he
Speaker 1: would turn that shit down sometimes and take to speak
Speaker 1: out the damn window. So at that time in the eighties,
Speaker 1: did you feel secure with like your livelihood inside that
Speaker 1: building or was it just that you never left it
Speaker 1: for anything to happen.
Speaker 3: No, I just never left it for anything that happened.
Speaker 1: Plus, I was the neighborhood DJ that you know, people
Speaker 1: was getting famous, and people would sit outside my building
Speaker 1: just to see who's coming to my house.
Speaker 3: So it was all good at that point.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to ask about your pop art period. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I instally thought you were a Philly guy. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm from Philadelphia, you know I got I got a
Speaker 1: shout Philly out.
Speaker 3: How did you meet the Goodmans? Dude?
Speaker 1: Philly put me on really in hip hop, man, I
Speaker 1: gotta say it, because if it wasn't for Lawrence and
Speaker 1: then with Rox Sans Revenge, Rox Sans Revenge was pinnacle
Speaker 1: for me. Okay, that was like a pinnacle point in
Speaker 1: my career when I got tooken serious after that. Before that,
Speaker 1: I was, you know, dj on doing this some round doing,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to put out these other records and
Speaker 1: these something no examples. It blew up and Philly put
Speaker 1: me on, put us on, just to let our listeners know.
Speaker 1: So around nineteen eighty four, a group of Brooklyn producers
Speaker 1: Full Force Right Right, put together a record called Roxanne
Speaker 1: Roxanne That's right TFO. One of the actually, am I
Speaker 1: incorrect for saying that that might be the first time
Speaker 1: that an actual break beat was used or modern hip
Speaker 1: hop because big beat, that's right break Orange educated rapper
Speaker 1: second verse. So I don't know what it was about
Speaker 1: this record, but I mean it's the typical storyline of
Speaker 1: three guys trying to kick it to a female and
Speaker 1: they all get rejected and somehow. I mean, this was
Speaker 1: one of the first viral moments. I mean, if it's
Speaker 1: social media were invented, this would be the trending number
Speaker 1: one trending topic because as a result, so many response
Speaker 1: records came out for Roxanne Roxanne, and we didn't even
Speaker 1: meant I didn't even mean for it to be a record.
Speaker 1: Once again, this was another Marly Mall exclusive. I want
Speaker 1: to have a special record for me being a DJ,
Speaker 1: and someone heard it and made a record out of it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to dub plate special with a female talking
Speaker 1: about I'm rock sand and I played it on Mister
Speaker 1: Magic Show and it was.
Speaker 3: It was fire.
Speaker 1: It was like I played a few days before Christmas.
Speaker 1: By Christmas Eve, it was number one on Billboard. How
Speaker 1: did you rox Sante Chante? She lived on my block
Speaker 1: in Queensbridge, and she know she used to always see
Speaker 1: her and the siphers on the block. You know, she
Speaker 1: used to always be insiph as her a dude named
Speaker 1: Infinite and empty Shan. There was like battling everybody on
Speaker 1: twelve Street, and I used to always see them. And
Speaker 1: you know, one day she she was doing her laundry.
Speaker 1: You know, she said, Yo, knocked on my door.
Speaker 6: Yo.
Speaker 3: You know you like that rock Sanding record.
Speaker 1: I said, Yo, She's like, Yo, I got something for that.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that myself. Well, I have a special dub play.
Speaker 3: Oh, come do that.
Speaker 1: So she came.
Speaker 3: We dub played it.
Speaker 1: Up and one take she ran back down was doing
Speaker 1: her laundry. She did it between the laundry break. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: the space brother seriously near one take yeah, one take,
Speaker 1: one take we got to had one cassette playing the
Speaker 1: instrument through another cassette recording, and she got on the mic,
Speaker 1: did her thing on one take, ran back downstairs, and
Speaker 1: the next week she was a star. Are there two
Speaker 1: versions of the Yes we have to we do it? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard the original twelve is I
Speaker 1: heard with the she asked.
Speaker 3: One that the ask yo, let me explain.
Speaker 1: It wasn't as exciting. But then I heard a version
Speaker 1: when she's like really screaming and explain. The first version
Speaker 1: that came out, they took the version that we played
Speaker 1: on the radio and pressed that one up and that
Speaker 1: was the first batch of records that went out, the
Speaker 1: version I played off the radio. I didn't give him
Speaker 1: the master. We gave him a copy of us playing
Speaker 1: it on the radio.
Speaker 3: Oh my good Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: That's why he said that, because he said that on
Speaker 1: the radio.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. I thought that was part of the record.
Speaker 1: Oh No, that was that was That was him live
Speaker 1: on the radio saying, oh my goodness after he played it.
Speaker 3: We gotta play this, yo.
Speaker 1: This is Roxanne's Revenge on court only on Pandora with
Speaker 1: the great mally Man. Will be right back.
Speaker 6: My name is don't know. I just a cold rock
Speaker 6: up bunny, and I said, I'm at you see you guys,
Speaker 6: and you know it's to let me tell you and
Speaker 6: explained them.
Speaker 1: All right, this quest some supreme. We're here talking to
Speaker 1: hip hop producer Marley More about his days as a
Speaker 1: legend in the making so and also a hook singers
Speaker 1: singing days. So were you a part of the other
Speaker 1: Roxannes that came out? Because I saw Roxanne doctor and
Speaker 1: well there was the real Rocks, the real Rocks and
Speaker 1: rock Real Rocks. Was the Puerto Rican girl with the.
Speaker 3: Blond here the forces.
Speaker 6: Okay, doctor Roxane, that's the original.
Speaker 1: Right, he was the first one.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: She was the first one. So at any point was
Speaker 1: there I mean, in our heads we're just thinking like,
Speaker 1: oh man, bloodshed caltfight's going to happen. But at any
Speaker 1: point did you ever kick it with full force or
Speaker 1: the thought of the idea of you know, doing something
Speaker 1: together or whatever. No, I think that went right out
Speaker 1: the window as soon as they came with, you know,
Speaker 1: they tried to do a real rock saying yeah, but
Speaker 1: she was she was. She was dope. Yes, she didn't
Speaker 1: have to fire off Chante, but she was really dope,
Speaker 1: and you know, and you know after that, I mean,
Speaker 1: Chante was the last one standing at the end of
Speaker 1: the day. Chante was really the first one that did it.
Speaker 1: She was on all the tours, she got on Fresh
Speaker 1: Fest with all that, you get what I'm saying. She
Speaker 1: she she had us on private planes real quick, really,
Speaker 1: and I didn't even have a call yet. So at
Speaker 1: this rate you're saying that this was catching on national.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had sometime three shows in one day and
Speaker 1: we had a private plane so we could be here,
Speaker 1: go there, and then go to the next show and
Speaker 1: just you know, it was just that away from like
Speaker 1: what were the gigs like? Was it just try State northeat.
Speaker 1: We would go you know, we would go to we
Speaker 1: went to Cincinnati, then we would go to what's that Pennsylvania? Okay,
Speaker 1: then we'll go to you know, maybe Ohio or something
Speaker 1: like that. We would do it like that and just
Speaker 1: hit the one song and one and done and two
Speaker 1: songs and be out, you know, one song and I
Speaker 1: played eight o eight when he just doing the freestyle
Speaker 1: and then we'd be out. Really, now you pick somebody
Speaker 1: out of the crowded this and get the crowd amped up.
Speaker 1: She was on a Millie Jackson who taught him like,
Speaker 1: so are you are you who's teaching the the entertainment
Speaker 1: aspect of your juice crews? How tell you something? Mister
Speaker 1: Magic was very If you think he was rude on
Speaker 1: the radio to other artists, you couldn't imagine how he
Speaker 1: would be to us as artists, like you ain't wearing
Speaker 1: that ship on stage with us.
Speaker 3: You're not going out like that, Oh motherfucker.
Speaker 1: You ain't ready. He told Cae many times, Yo, you
Speaker 1: ain't going out on stage with your hair like that.
Speaker 1: And and then that's when Kine got started getting the
Speaker 1: hot top fade.
Speaker 3: Before you had a big old afro.
Speaker 1: What yeah, the seventies iry some damn that's the Magic
Speaker 1: would have hated me. I know, mister Magic saying he's like,
Speaker 1: you can't go on stage like that represent with us.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, King came back with the
Speaker 1: hot top fake.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: But it worked because he's kind of marketing them looking like,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna be the ladies man, you
Speaker 1: can't be the ladies man like that. So oh, there
Speaker 1: you go. Now that's the look that we're looking for,
Speaker 1: and they went with it. And and that's why came
Speaker 1: was the sex symbol out of us. I guess we
Speaker 1: should we shouldn't note that. Uh, what's notable about Marley's
Speaker 1: presence in hip hop. It's the fact that you know
Speaker 1: you represent will represent a wave of one of the
Speaker 1: first families in hip hop. There you as opposed to
Speaker 1: just you know, individual acts coming out at the time.
Speaker 3: And we're speaking of the Jews.
Speaker 1: So did you and mister Magic have this grand scheme
Speaker 1: like we're gonna develop acts and then I'll play them
Speaker 1: on our radio show, and you'll spin it on the
Speaker 1: radio show.
Speaker 3: And you know it was you know what it was.
Speaker 1: We're in such a battle man, you got to think
Speaker 1: it was battle mode. A lot of songs we made
Speaker 1: was ammunition to fight Red and Chuck on Kiss FM.
Speaker 1: Explain all right, explain the initial rivalry between Red and
Speaker 1: all right, this is how it all started. Mister Magic
Speaker 1: was on the radio and BLS for about a year.
Speaker 1: Then then Kiss FM decided, Hey, they went in over
Speaker 1: there with that rep. Let's get it. Let's get a
Speaker 1: wrap show too. They got they got Jazzy Jay first.
Speaker 1: Matter of fact, I think it was it got Jazzy
Speaker 1: j first. He did it for a minute, he didn't
Speaker 1: like it. He passed it on the Red. Then Red
Speaker 1: and Chuck started splitting it. And then after a while, okay,
Speaker 1: now we was doing it for a year and then
Speaker 1: they started coming up. So that second summer, oh, it
Speaker 1: was brutal in the city. Now it's two stations playing
Speaker 1: rap on the weekends. Now, all right, this is before
Speaker 1: the summer actually when school was in this was this
Speaker 1: was just before that summer when everybody went to school
Speaker 1: with a new regular tape or mister Magic tape every
Speaker 1: Monday back in school. You heard what they played, hen
Speaker 1: it is, So we started, we started blowing up. Then
Speaker 1: those tapes would go around the world. Those tapes would
Speaker 1: travel to Philly. You get what I'm saying, y'all would
Speaker 1: get those tapes down south. I know people down south
Speaker 1: and Atlanta was slinging tapes. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So those tapes were moving around. So it started a
Speaker 1: big radio rivalry, Kiss FM against w b l S.
Speaker 1: And now now all of a sudden, now I need
Speaker 1: AMMO because mister Magic was the type of person you know,
Speaker 1: God rest his soul. He was good at heart, but
Speaker 1: he would get on the air and this this is
Speaker 1: an artist. So that means that artists would be mad
Speaker 1: at him out of ass on millions?
Speaker 3: Was he really talking about them?
Speaker 1: Yo? One day I played the public and in the
Speaker 1: middle of the record, he yo, Mally Mary turned that off.
Speaker 3: He could cut his Michael, turn that off.
Speaker 1: I turned it off, your man, no more music from
Speaker 1: the Sockers quick.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I just start. I'm looking at him, like, Yo,
Speaker 3: what did you just say?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Yo?
Speaker 1: Because I'm the DJ with you, I don't want to
Speaker 1: like we want to air together, like what did you
Speaker 1: just say?
Speaker 3: No more music from the sucker?
Speaker 2: So it went by.
Speaker 1: Then a few weeks later PubL Agatay put that on
Speaker 1: the on their record. When somebody took the recording of
Speaker 1: him saying it on the show and put it on
Speaker 1: the record.
Speaker 3: He is speaking of the beginning of pol Amborum Flavor,
Speaker 3: which is I.
Speaker 1: Guarantee you no more music byd a Sucker, no more
Speaker 1: music bind the suckers, no more music by the suckers. Yo, man,
Speaker 1: So how did how does Biz enter? And how do
Speaker 1: you see Biz more than just a sidekick as a start? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you how did you first meet him? Well? Crazy,
Speaker 1: I was walking down the street and I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: there's a be box in the building. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: come on, man, for real, beat box schmek box. You
Speaker 1: thought it was a fat Yeah, I was like come on.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, Yo, Doggie Fresh is out, Buffy
Speaker 1: Buffy's out. Ain't nobody touching them dudes? You get what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like it's gonna be hard. I said, I
Speaker 1: don't even want a hair dude. But he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: but you got to check him out, Mam Yo, he's phenomenal.
Speaker 1: He's something special. So I go back to the building.
Speaker 1: He's doing a beat box in the building. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, when he went right, bro, come to my
Speaker 1: house to mom. Bro, you dope kid. That was like
Speaker 1: he blew me away. He started I want to, I
Speaker 1: want to. My name is bis Mark. I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: if you're crazy enough to chop your neck in front
Speaker 1: of me. So at that point, did you feel like
Speaker 1: did you feel like, Okay, I could make anyone a star?
Speaker 1: Like did you figure out like you knew what the
Speaker 1: formula was to make the streets feel With Biz? It
Speaker 1: was kind of like an experiment. I knew that he
Speaker 1: could have been a good attraction to what we was doing.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, he's real entertaining. That was dope.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe he could he could rock with us.
Speaker 1: And you know, once he got to me, Chante, Shanta
Speaker 1: and him got very close and he started opening up
Speaker 1: for Shante. And once I seen the reaction of the
Speaker 1: crowd when he started opening with Chante, I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: he's extra special. What was Biz doing?
Speaker 6: When you like? How old was he when you met him?
Speaker 1: He was he had to be like it looked like
Speaker 1: he was about eighteen or nineteen or something like that.
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, just like a young skinny kid
Speaker 1: coming to the hood. Yo. He stayed for the whole weekend.
Speaker 1: Finally saw me Sunday. Everybody's like, yo, he was out
Speaker 1: here all weekend.
Speaker 4: Yo.
Speaker 3: He was out here a funny dude.
Speaker 2: He was out here hanging up.
Speaker 1: We just sat on the park bench, wait, brung out
Speaker 1: the whole weekend in Queen's Bridge.
Speaker 3: He just hung out with everybody. So that was just
Speaker 3: the thing.
Speaker 1: Do I'm gonna go to Queens Ridge Project? Yeah, But
Speaker 1: that's why I had to move because you know a
Speaker 1: few females would do that too, and they would get violated.
Speaker 1: So I was like, let me move at it because
Speaker 1: I want to be responsible. R oh, I know, I
Speaker 1: thank you to him. Come on, man, that was happening
Speaker 1: too much. So I was like, you know, let me
Speaker 1: I got to get up out of here. Okay, So
Speaker 1: are you still going to proper studios to do the
Speaker 1: pre production and coming into your crib to know it's
Speaker 1: right in the living room in Queen's Bridge.
Speaker 3: With a task him with the assume.
Speaker 1: At this point, the SB twelve, the infamous reel the
Speaker 1: real or you're the real? Yeah, like how many outlets
Speaker 1: did you have to like it? Because I was.
Speaker 3: Electricity go out?
Speaker 4: Nah?
Speaker 3: NOA it was.
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. I mean it sounds like a lot.
Speaker 1: I had a shabby, shitty little studio and made all
Speaker 1: those records. It sounds like yo, when you hear the records,
Speaker 1: they sound so big and elaborate. But dude, I was
Speaker 1: sitting there on like a shitty ester. Quick, you say,
Speaker 1: nobody beat some business was just just that was some
Speaker 1: some mcguira miracle like that.
Speaker 3: Wasn't It wasn't a miracle.
Speaker 1: But the way I would make records, I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: I'm triggering from an eight a eight the post from
Speaker 1: the eight away is triggering each sample is separately. I
Speaker 1: didn't have a twelve hundred yeat. This is before twelve hundreds.
Speaker 1: They didn't even have twelve hundred. Yeah, I'm sampling drums
Speaker 1: before they even made twelve hundreds to do that. So
Speaker 1: I got I got three samplers here with trigger inputs
Speaker 1: on the back the times, the low times, in the
Speaker 1: high times, just triggering my drum sounds. And I'm using
Speaker 1: a regular eight a weight from the eighth eight and
Speaker 1: a regular high from the hot eight O eight, but
Speaker 1: those are my drum sounds.
Speaker 3: Those three samplers was triggering.
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like mcgiverish because yeah, they
Speaker 1: didn't have that technology, right, I kind of like me,
Speaker 1: I thought of it. So you and Grandmaster Flash. Grandmaster Flash, like,
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, invent a system that lets
Speaker 1: me hear the music before I'm DJing it, and you
Speaker 1: are I want to. I want to you're inventing triggering
Speaker 1: without the idea of triggering, right, I'm inventing twelve hundreds
Speaker 1: and the whole the whole software program or how they're
Speaker 1: doing it, probably before it was even made, because nobody
Speaker 1: the twelve the twelve s P twelve came out after that.
Speaker 1: I thought you did that on a twelve No, no, okay.
Speaker 1: So what was your Ben Franklin Eureka moment? Because I
Speaker 1: think our listeners should know that more than any producer,
Speaker 1: you're the one that figured it out a way to
Speaker 1: take what's on a record and put it through technology
Speaker 1: so that we could wrap over that instead without you know,
Speaker 1: without DJ going back and forth of all the stuff.
Speaker 1: So like, what was your what was your Eureka moment?
Speaker 1: Like wait, I can do that. One day we was
Speaker 1: working at Unique and I was like trying to sample
Speaker 1: something else, and I think the snare went through by mistake,
Speaker 1: and I was like rocking the snare with the beat,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that shit sound hot right there. Turn
Speaker 1: the other one down. Turn that shit, turn original down,
Speaker 1: turn out, turn that line drum down. I'm playing playing
Speaker 1: what I was doing with the with the beat. It
Speaker 1: sounded so much better. I was like, yo, could we
Speaker 1: put this on track? And I put it on track
Speaker 1: and I sat there. I was like, hold up, this
Speaker 1: means I could take any record I have at home,
Speaker 1: any kick snare, make my own pattern with their kicking sneer.
Speaker 1: I think I never interned anymore after that day. I
Speaker 1: think that was my last day of internship. I think
Speaker 1: I never returned. I returned as Mally Mal later to
Speaker 1: do mixes and be famous, but I was never intern
Speaker 1: no more after that. Okay, so you run home with
Speaker 1: the equipment, or you run into your own equipment. I
Speaker 1: went home. I went around the corner to sam Ash
Speaker 1: and brought little two little samplers. Like I'm thinking back then,
Speaker 1: this is super expensive and hard to acquire. No, they
Speaker 1: had little samplers for guitar players back in the day.
Speaker 1: You know how they got there. You could play along
Speaker 1: with it and play right, right, something they plays a
Speaker 1: little thing, they play along with it, right, That's what
Speaker 1: it was back then.
Speaker 3: I had a sampler like that.
Speaker 1: First I had a trigger on it, and I figured
Speaker 1: I could put sound from the record in there and
Speaker 1: trigger it. I ever wanted to know, okay, okay, And
Speaker 1: so these records you were recording, still at your crib,
Speaker 1: still at the crib, my matter fact, my first real
Speaker 1: sampler was that was a little box that was this
Speaker 1: for guitar player that then you know they have the
Speaker 1: loops on it. Yeah, the thing that you do, the
Speaker 1: little cork box little thing. That was my first sampler.
Speaker 1: But I bought one with a trigger on it because
Speaker 1: I already was working at Unique and I used to see, oh, trigger,
Speaker 1: everybody's trigger happy.
Speaker 3: The post is popping everything off in here.
Speaker 1: Hold, if I could get a sample that pulls to
Speaker 1: pop off too, I could put what I want in
Speaker 1: there and it's gonna do what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: What was your first thing that you broke that you
Speaker 1: were like, oh god, I've discovered a new way of
Speaker 1: let me see, and was it Nobody Beats the Biz?
Speaker 1: Or it could have been Nobody Beats the Biz that
Speaker 1: they could have been that and and make the music.
Speaker 1: It was aund make the music time around me, because
Speaker 1: I remember I used to like that Isaac Case piano
Speaker 1: and when when I messed around and remembered how you
Speaker 1: know in hip hop they used to play it in
Speaker 1: forty five to make it have that certain tone, And
Speaker 1: I was like, if I could make that certain tone
Speaker 1: with my own beat, it would be phenomenal. And then
Speaker 1: once I made that, I kind of knew I was here.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that right there because I was
Speaker 1: able to take my own kicking, my own snare, go
Speaker 1: in the mic and go and make my own high hat.
Speaker 1: Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what.
Speaker 3: What you just saying? Say that one more time?
Speaker 1: I was able to go to the samble and go
Speaker 1: in it and be able to play it back like
Speaker 1: a shaker.
Speaker 3: Ghetto.
Speaker 2: Come on, I have nothing.
Speaker 1: I've always wondered what that was, because the thing that's
Speaker 1: so Doba about it is that when we would do
Speaker 1: that beat like in the lunch room, that's how we.
Speaker 3: Were all do it the same way with my mouth.
Speaker 3: There you go. That's real quick.
Speaker 6: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: Wow, wow, yo, I want you I want to.
Speaker 3: That's not a want to.
Speaker 1: It isn't now that I know what it is. Wow,
Speaker 1: now that you hear it, now.
Speaker 3: That you know it's not like it wasn't the Dougie
Speaker 3: Fresh Shaker. Yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask because I know when for
Speaker 3: the show with Teddy Riley, like, what was that.
Speaker 1: A DMX DMX because I have a DMX and it
Speaker 1: doesn't sound that wow, it's just like and I would
Speaker 1: try to tune it down. It doesn't sound that way
Speaker 1: off an email on. Yeah, but I figured after that
Speaker 1: record right there, I had it, and and to be honest,
Speaker 1: I kept my drum sounds in my samplers for about
Speaker 1: a week.
Speaker 3: I made about a week's worth of beats before it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the bridge was one of them. Stunt of
Speaker 1: the Block was on Eric Beats, President Drums was one
Speaker 1: of them. So at that point I was like, I
Speaker 1: kept those drums sounds in. Was there a way to
Speaker 1: save it? I was saying cards right now, I had
Speaker 1: it on real, So I had on real. That's where
Speaker 1: the infamous reel. Okay, infamous reel was my hard job.
Speaker 1: We got to talk about him, Piace the President, We
Speaker 1: gotta talk about him. Piece the President. I know Munch
Speaker 1: has been said about like the importance of funky drummers placing.
Speaker 3: The panfe the President is the greatest break meet up.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do feel that in Peace to President
Speaker 1: is probably the common man's break beat. First of all,
Speaker 1: ultimate beats and breaks wasn't out yet, right, So thus,
Speaker 1: how did you run across?
Speaker 3: And was it just like a source record that you
Speaker 3: were like, this will do well.
Speaker 1: I got it. I got my version, my forty five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw Aaron Fuchs. Wow. Now see, I gotta be
Speaker 1: careful because he's bunked a few shots at me.
Speaker 3: I know about with him peach. But he gave me
Speaker 3: it because what happened. He gave it to you.
Speaker 1: Listen. I used to This is when I lived in
Speaker 1: Queen's Bridge on Vernon Tough City Records was on Vernon Boulevard,
Speaker 1: Queens in Long Island City, like a few blocks down, okay,
Speaker 1: and you know, and you know, and I was just
Speaker 1: coming up and he's like, look, I want you to
Speaker 1: go in the studio with spoony G. I can't really
Speaker 1: pay you, but I could give you a handful of
Speaker 1: forty fives. Now you got to think about it. Aaron
Speaker 1: Fuchs was the editor god You did the Godfather.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to tell you. I thought that
Speaker 3: you did that. Yeah, I did The Godfather, right.
Speaker 1: Here's The Godfather by Spoony G.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm right now, and take it off.
Speaker 3: Of course he did.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I was doing those records, he didn't
Speaker 1: have money to pay me, so he would say, hey,
Speaker 1: since he was the editor of Billboard for funking soul
Speaker 1: in the sixties, so you're ready to know his record collection.
Speaker 3: So he would always say, I.
Speaker 1: Got a handful of forty fives for your here. And
Speaker 1: there was so many rarities and that shit. Every time
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, let me go make a record
Speaker 1: for him and get his break beats break, he paid
Speaker 1: me with no forty fives, bro and piece to President
Speaker 1: happened to be one of them. The irony of everything
Speaker 1: is that he was the person that gave me a
Speaker 1: piece to President on a trade like that, and was
Speaker 1: later to come back and sue.
Speaker 3: For using that very break He gave me Wow, okay,
Speaker 3: what is yours?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: I had a situation where.
Speaker 1: All right, I gotta be very careful because some certain
Speaker 1: people were very regitious with what do you mean by
Speaker 1: certain people? Exactly? That's that's exactly how he approached me
Speaker 1: to like, what do you mean leeches.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: At the time, there was a situation with where jay
Speaker 1: Z and Kanye west otis in which we all know
Speaker 1: that Kanye ends the rhyme with Jay is chilling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 3: He did come after him for that, right.
Speaker 1: And you know from what I know is that he
Speaker 1: approached h What's light in Milk's Father's na They were like, yo,
Speaker 1: he's quoting our song.
Speaker 2: Go get him.
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, no, it's just an homage.
Speaker 1: Like it's not we don't consider it biting. It's just
Speaker 1: an homage. At the end of at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I hear that the amount was somewhere close
Speaker 1: to two million. My thing is that the very thing
Speaker 1: and this probably extends to me and Boss Bill's argument
Speaker 1: about amens versus body on that one, I'm as versus biting, uh.
Speaker 3: Stealing somebody style.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's like for me, a person like George
Speaker 1: Clinton has it where it's like he gives you great
Speaker 1: rates to take his stuff, and then you keep coming.
Speaker 3: Back for more. Right, keep the keep the prices in
Speaker 3: the streets, and everybody come back.
Speaker 1: The problem the situation with with Aaron Fuchs is that
Speaker 1: he acquired the rights to impeach the president and then
Speaker 1: he just went law suit crazy. Now I noticed that
Speaker 1: all these seven figure lawsuits were always aimed the deaf JAM.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if maybe he has a beef
Speaker 1: with Russell or yeah, because like certain and pre president
Speaker 1: usage got on, you know, he let it slide, but
Speaker 1: with def Jam it was like one million, one million,
Speaker 1: one million, one million budget. Probably. Yeah, what is your feeling,
Speaker 1: I mean, especially in twenty sixteen in which I feel
Speaker 1: as though we need more and beats the president, right
Speaker 1: unless and I'm not I don't want to be that
Speaker 1: guy that's like discouraging the future marlies of the world
Speaker 1: to not push forward technology.
Speaker 3: Right, But.
Speaker 1: If everyone is just trying to cash in on laying
Speaker 1: a trap, I feel like it's laying a trap. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the most popular breakbeat
Speaker 1: right and sue you if you use it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give it to the most popular producer, let him use it,
Speaker 1: get it hot in the streets. Then I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: get the rights to it and sue every motherfucker that
Speaker 1: use so And that's what happened.
Speaker 3: What is he is he just living off of I
Speaker 3: mean the theme the scrubs? Like, no, I think that.
Speaker 1: You know, he looks at it as his business. You know,
Speaker 1: somebody's got to do it, you know, I feel his way,
Speaker 1: that's his way. I'm just to me, he's looking at
Speaker 1: it as business. You know what. It's like, that's the
Speaker 1: story of like music, like paying chess artists with cadillacs
Speaker 1: and now look at it, you know what.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when the whole bubble bursted with
Speaker 1: sampling itself, when they found out that you could make
Speaker 1: money off assuing everybody, everybody went buck wow. At first,
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, yeah, we're just doing it
Speaker 1: because it sounds hot or whatever whatever.
Speaker 3: We're not even really thinking about it like that.
Speaker 1: Once somebody figured it out that yo, you could get
Speaker 1: sue for that, everybody went buck wow. It became a business,
Speaker 1: and that kind of fucked.
Speaker 3: The music up. Everybody started using doing keyboards, right.
Speaker 6: Is it fairer if it's going back to the arts.
Speaker 6: Is that the problem is that the people most times
Speaker 6: the breakbeats or whoever originally owns it, it's not going
Speaker 6: back to that person who really made the music. Is
Speaker 6: that the problem?
Speaker 1: If he were about like making sure the honey drippers
Speaker 1: were straight?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 1: Like a good example now is the most one of
Speaker 1: the most popular comedy shows on right now today the
Speaker 1: Workaholics their theme songs, Yeah, skinny Boys, human job box.
Speaker 1: Like none of those guys are They're not even aware
Speaker 1: that there is a subculture of comedy now that like
Speaker 1: when I spend that song now, like any millennials losing
Speaker 1: their minds because they're thinking, I'm spending the work the
Speaker 1: Workaholics team, like, oh, this is a real song. And
Speaker 1: once I did the investigation, like none of those guys are.
Speaker 1: They sold their publishing and it's just like it's one
Speaker 1: guy that's like just getting rich off the work of
Speaker 1: Aholics team.
Speaker 6: So then that's the case. So if it was directly
Speaker 6: the artist, you would feel a little differently about it.
Speaker 6: Marvin Gaye was alive, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I meant, do you feel paranoid because the
Speaker 1: thing is that your drums have single handedly fed and
Speaker 1: up the game of hip hop between eighty five and
Speaker 1: eighty seven and still to this day, Like that is
Speaker 1: you building those drums? Like how do you feel about it?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: I feel? And is he trying to come? Has he
Speaker 3: ever tried to come to you?
Speaker 8: Four?
Speaker 3: Just snares and high hats and nah, that's.
Speaker 1: One thing that you can notice when you when you
Speaker 1: just have a kick or a snare from it, he
Speaker 1: doesn't go at you. Kind of I'm just maybe I'm
Speaker 1: letting some out the bag. But I noticed whenever it's
Speaker 1: he getting you. But if it's like god, right, just
Speaker 1: a straight up snare, right, He's like, oh, you can't
Speaker 1: really prove it the way he could prove a loop.
Speaker 1: How did y'all put up settling?
Speaker 3: I mean without money? Whatever? Details? Did y'all end up
Speaker 3: settling the round the way?
Speaker 1: Girl?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 3: I paid him.
Speaker 1: I paid him. It was like a settlement and he
Speaker 1: got like a one time payment and kept it moving.
Speaker 1: I believe it. I believe that's how it went.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: So this leads to the infamous real and yes, and
Speaker 1: you're you're what I call the not the manum from heaven.
Speaker 1: But the two loads of fishing five pieces of bread
Speaker 1: or is it five pieces of fishing, two loads of bread,
Speaker 1: fishing five loves? Yeah, So so because you're not saving
Speaker 1: these sounds on disc. No disc was here yet, because
Speaker 1: there wasn't no way of saving. There was nothing digital yet.
Speaker 1: They didn't have floppy disc for our samples yet because
Speaker 1: there was no twelve hundred yet. Right, So what I
Speaker 1: would do is put my drum sounds on a reel,
Speaker 1: put like one kickbar and then leader, the next snaire,
Speaker 1: co leader, the next kick, boom, high hats whatever. I
Speaker 1: had all my reels, all my sounds on one reel,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's how I used to go around.
Speaker 3: I used to go with the artists. We used to
Speaker 3: sit there with the reel.
Speaker 1: What kick you want to use?
Speaker 2: Boom?
Speaker 3: But I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that, and that's how to make it for real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's has to sit down, sit down with them. He customized,
Speaker 1: like we gotta start doing that.
Speaker 2: I think we do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do that, you play like you like that
Speaker 1: and you know you play certain things. But I was
Speaker 1: just playing drum sounds for them, not even loops, just
Speaker 1: godd shoo, that's not Oh. Then I would sit there,
Speaker 1: blow those in, make a quick beat, put put a
Speaker 1: put whatever to it, and then let them rhyme. Put
Speaker 1: the put the snare in the high hat on one track,
Speaker 1: put the kick in the baseline on the other track,
Speaker 1: put the rhymes on one track, and sampling on the
Speaker 1: other fourth track, and we got a record.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now with that said, I gotta ask you, when you
Speaker 1: hear this intro, what are you thinking on? For years
Speaker 1: it never dawned on me. I don't know why. For
Speaker 1: some reason, I kind of like blocked that record out
Speaker 1: of my psychic for like years. Probably no, it never
Speaker 1: nothing that it. They have existed. I probably never listened
Speaker 1: to it. I heard it, but didn't listen to it.
Speaker 1: If you know what I mean, It is possible to
Speaker 1: ignore something and be willfully ignorant. Like there's one particular
Speaker 1: artist in hip hop I can honestly say I've never
Speaker 1: even I mean, this is like a Bonafi. Everybody in
Speaker 1: their mother loves this product. I haven't heard it once
Speaker 1: like I will. So as far as you're concerned, right,
Speaker 1: criminal minded just never existed. No, I'm that record right there,
Speaker 1: We're talking that record South Bronx well the Bridges Over.
Speaker 1: When when Bridges Over came out, I was like, I
Speaker 1: heard it, but I didn't, you know, it didn't. It didn't.
Speaker 3: It didn't.
Speaker 1: It didn't hit me like that was my drum sound.
Speaker 1: It didn't hit me like that because I kind of like.
Speaker 3: To be honest.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I never thought that, Like when Chris
Speaker 1: first came at us, I was like, now, who's stupid
Speaker 1: enough to I was like, Yo, who's stupid enough to
Speaker 1: believe this dude? Who's stupid enough to believe that he's
Speaker 1: saying that we said something we didn't say. Who's that
Speaker 1: dumb to believe this motherfucker? And I was like, That's
Speaker 1: when I realized, Yo, hip hop dumb it in the motherfucker.
Speaker 1: I was like, God, damn, who's yo? When he first came,
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, who's gonna believe this dude? We
Speaker 1: never said that? And we the motherfucker Juice Crew because
Speaker 1: we got Kinge g Rap So and so nigga who
Speaker 1: gonna believe that ship?
Speaker 3: And we and then everybody.
Speaker 1: I was like, God, this nigga's a good, good con
Speaker 1: He caught ya niggas, he caught a lot of motherfuckers.
Speaker 1: My assumption was that it was something deeper than just
Speaker 1: him defending behind the Bronx. Anybody wasn't from the Bronx.
Speaker 1: To see what I'm saying. He wasn't fron the Bee.
Speaker 1: So where is he from? He was from Brooklyn and
Speaker 1: the Homeless Shelter Christ is from and Skylar Rock was
Speaker 1: from the Bee. You get what I'm saying, Please explain?
Speaker 1: And I was like saying to mysel yo, who gonna
Speaker 1: believe this?
Speaker 2: Dude?
Speaker 1: But then but then I started really realizing that, you know,
Speaker 1: I started realizing that that common sense wasn't as common
Speaker 1: as I thought. And I was like, so I kind
Speaker 1: of after that, I kind of backed away from hip hop.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, let me just sp but everything
Speaker 1: was already done. I backed the way, looked at it.
Speaker 1: I said, I know what I'm gonna do. We throw
Speaker 1: Let me throw cane on these niggas real quick. Got raw,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. After raw, I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: now I'm back. I felt good again about it, but
Speaker 1: I stepped back after while. So you felt as some
Speaker 1: sort of way between eighty five eighty sixcess, I felt
Speaker 1: I felt real, you know, I felt real crazy. I
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, how the fuck niggas believe this dude?
Speaker 1: And that's real talk.
Speaker 3: Why what happened? Like, oh, like play record, I.
Speaker 1: Tell you exactly what happened. He tried to get in
Speaker 1: the Juice crew up the day I lost lost my
Speaker 1: reel up at power Play. He they was they saw
Speaker 1: mister Magic and me in the studio with Shante. Please
Speaker 1: mister Magic, listen to our demo. Please please you Marlly man,
Speaker 1: come in.
Speaker 3: The room and come in the room with me.
Speaker 1: So I, hey, these niggas ship. So I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll walk in the room with you. So
Speaker 1: I'll go in the room with him. It's like the
Speaker 1: Buggy Down production, all of them. They're in the room like, yo,
Speaker 1: please mister Magic, Oh thank you for coming in. Yo,
Speaker 1: this is a demo And they put it on and
Speaker 1: plat it loud on the room like this, jumping around.
Speaker 1: He goes. He goes off to the console and shut
Speaker 1: that ship down. She was bullshit, man, shut that in
Speaker 1: front of them, yo. He said that straight in front
Speaker 1: of this ship is straight. God.
Speaker 3: Do you remember what was it? A song that later
Speaker 3: came out? You remember what it was?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I probably never heard that ship again.
Speaker 2: You know what?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 1: All right, so peep it. They they they had like
Speaker 1: four or five songs like no no, no.
Speaker 2: No, no, no no.
Speaker 1: Set they played that one song that he turned down
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, turned the volume down.
Speaker 3: In the middle of them jumping around the room trying
Speaker 3: to sell it.
Speaker 1: He was like, Yo, this is God, but you want
Speaker 1: your niggas want real hip hop rock, sane chante, Molly
Speaker 1: mal mister Magic, juice true and walked out. So that's why.
Speaker 1: And then when he's leaving the studio, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to stay in the studio because he dissed them, so
Speaker 1: I was trying to get out of there with them
Speaker 1: and I left.
Speaker 3: My real wait, how many who was in beat? Like
Speaker 3: was it Scott Chris?
Speaker 1: It was?
Speaker 3: It was a lot of It was like a whole
Speaker 3: room full of people.
Speaker 1: It was like, that's what I'm asking It was like
Speaker 1: it was it was all of them, all of them
Speaker 1: because they were so happy to see mister Magic, and
Speaker 1: they were such a fans of mister Magic, and he
Speaker 1: dissed them. So it didn't come off like Yo, we
Speaker 1: about to fuck him up, or like I mean he
Speaker 1: was that was mister magic man. He was arrogant and
Speaker 1: liked that back in the day. So retaliation, the retaliation
Speaker 1: set didn't even get into the minds of hip hoppers
Speaker 1: back then, right right, He's like, yo, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: them back. That was only one way in. I mean,
Speaker 1: couldn't you him? Then where do you go? Right? And
Speaker 1: then what happened too? And see you got to think
Speaker 1: about it. Now, this is even before BDP was down
Speaker 1: with red alert. They gave read the record, Red jumped
Speaker 1: on with them because now he had needed he needed ammunition,
Speaker 1: so he jumped in their crew. You get what I mean,
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. So now now when I've
Speaker 1: seen the whole wave of the Bronx supporting, I was like,
Speaker 1: we didn't say that, but yo, the wind was already
Speaker 1: blowing on the fire at that point, so it was
Speaker 1: already spread. And like nobody stood back and say, oh,
Speaker 1: them niggas never said that. You're talking about stupid, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So it never it never
Speaker 1: got cleared. So I looked at the whole ship for
Speaker 1: years like, damn, well have you heard pre criminal minded
Speaker 1: b DP? All right, I gotta play events like on
Speaker 1: the box set of criminal minded. There's like they're eighty
Speaker 1: five eighty six stuff, which is like private demos. Yes,
Speaker 1: you probably heard this. This is advanced by Boogie Delle Productions.
Speaker 1: Out of this magic was like, come on, man, they
Speaker 1: got upset, but you know, but that gave them that
Speaker 1: fuel right there. But I'm saying, where's that real right now?
Speaker 1: Which one my drum? Real?
Speaker 3: I got that all day? If I don't I walk
Speaker 3: around with that. If I didn't known you want.
Speaker 1: That, I would I would have brought that we wanted.
Speaker 1: I got that out, to be honest. I want to
Speaker 1: bake it right now. See what sounds is on that bitch?
Speaker 1: That's dad ass. I would love this because that that
Speaker 1: that kick in, that snin. You gotta know that in
Speaker 1: peace the president the way it sounds like that. And
Speaker 1: I know if anybody ever uses any sample from that real,
Speaker 1: because you know how certain popcorn on your samples that
Speaker 1: you know at a certain spot. I didn't play my
Speaker 1: peach so much back in the day that by the
Speaker 1: time I sampled, it was that much static on it.
Speaker 1: And I had that static on top billing. I had
Speaker 1: that static on everybody's president. I had that static on
Speaker 1: fucking funky cole Medina. You get what I'm saying. There's
Speaker 1: too many records. I had hit that static where you
Speaker 1: can't tell me you didn't sample my ship. See, I
Speaker 1: was under the impression that. See I'm so glad we're
Speaker 1: having this conversation because in my mind I'm thinking that
Speaker 1: this is where Paul c And said, g of Ultra
Speaker 1: Manetic come into play. Oh, said found the real So
Speaker 1: let's move on. Really, yes, so that explains all right?
Speaker 1: Over because he tapped out the beat for the bridges
Speaker 1: over said G Yes, that explains everything. Also, of course
Speaker 1: you gotta tell him what song is it?
Speaker 2: What's this is.
Speaker 3: One of the like this beat you brought, Yes, one
Speaker 3: of these skill so.
Speaker 1: You got its next in there?
Speaker 2: You hear it.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you I lost my reel.
Speaker 1: They went crazy, but that's okay to you, though it
Speaker 1: was it was all good because.
Speaker 3: I found it. I found it, you know.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm glad they made those records because
Speaker 1: those records right there helped motivate hip hop. Now they
Speaker 1: following what the fuck I'm doing? You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I had you all in my grips because you
Speaker 1: have my reel making all these beads. Now, this is
Speaker 1: really starting to make sense to me because I thought
Speaker 1: you produced our hometown hero steady beat No Doubt before
Speaker 1: I let go. This was like a big yes song
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. Yeah your drums, Yeah, of course. I think
Speaker 1: Lawrence was mad at me and took my drums and
Speaker 1: made a record. So it's just like, are people making
Speaker 1: copies of this reel?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 3: Once? Once I put it on the bridge, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was open.
Speaker 1: It was open, was the beginning of the bridge. It
Speaker 1: was open, so you could your peoples grabbing it from there.
Speaker 1: Eric B's president, you know, Milk said he y'all, I
Speaker 1: didn't use your bridge. I'll us president Due. It's the
Speaker 1: same real bro, if you got it from there, it's
Speaker 1: the same drum sound. Buddy, what was the story with
Speaker 1: beat Bider Now? So llll releases? This is really way
Speaker 1: to beat well? No, Well, I thought it was over
Speaker 1: Rock the Bells because right now the thing is originally
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin told me there's a version of Rock the
Speaker 1: Bells where he's doing it over uh the Peter Piper
Speaker 1: Brick take me to the Martin gro My Bob James
Speaker 1: and then run barked on him like, no, we got
Speaker 1: some ship like that.
Speaker 3: You can't do that.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And so then Rick and l I'll go back and
Speaker 1: do it over the trouble Front break and then did
Speaker 1: another version of which mc shan claims that you know
Speaker 1: this is so what's really weird is that at least
Speaker 1: four records for like early records of yours are confrontational
Speaker 1: records of some sort between Rocks and between my early
Speaker 1: records was kind of like frustration records, kind of like
Speaker 1: matter of fact, if there was meant to be records,
Speaker 1: I did start going at people because all right, we
Speaker 1: made the Rock Sande record, it did what it did.
Speaker 1: I made the Dimples record, it did what it did.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, ship, I can make these type of
Speaker 1: records like a go at motherfuckers. So I never knew
Speaker 1: about this beef with LLLL or at least like I mean,
Speaker 1: it didn't really escalate, but I mean, did LLLL even
Speaker 1: realize that it was? It was diverted by Was it
Speaker 1: a New York thing? No, no, it was it was
Speaker 1: diverted by b DP.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Once that came in, Yeah, it was like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: have you heard be By? Yeah? Did you hear you
Speaker 1: heard the remix of Rock the Bells. Yeah, the original,
Speaker 1: the other version the other boom yeah, that one. So
Speaker 1: it was just so this came out first, or that
Speaker 1: the real Rock the Bells came out first and the
Speaker 1: remix came later. And when we heard the remix was like, yo,
Speaker 1: hold up, that's the fuck that is Mally Scratchby. It
Speaker 1: was boom boom, bab boom bat boom back boom boom,
Speaker 1: boom ba ba boom. We was like, and he's and
Speaker 1: then he's talking about rocking the Bells over the same beat.
Speaker 1: He was like, hold up, that's the same same pattern.
Speaker 1: I think you were the first person to really introduced
Speaker 1: the idea of a dub or an instrumental, because I
Speaker 1: think before hip hop hip hop twelve inches didn't have
Speaker 1: the instrumental on it, right. I remember one like maybe
Speaker 1: sugar Hill Birthday Rhymes, they had a instrumental on the back.
Speaker 1: But you would always do something where it's what we
Speaker 1: now call the TV version. So when when you when
Speaker 1: you're mixing the studio, the TV version is it's it's
Speaker 1: an instrumental and it's an occasional background vocal guide. So
Speaker 1: the MC knows where they are in the song, right,
Speaker 1: So like if I'm doing the Freshman to Belly, it'd
Speaker 1: be like, now this is yeah, yes, yes, upside that
Speaker 1: right right? Like what made you? I believe you like
Speaker 1: one of the first to do a dub or whatever,
Speaker 1: like was it for the purpose of doing it live
Speaker 1: or no? You know I used to do that because
Speaker 1: you noticed a lot of my records from back then.
Speaker 1: I never gave instrumentals up to this day. See to
Speaker 1: this day, I found some instrumentals from like key Gats,
Speaker 1: like how'd you get that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: I never gave instrumentals up because I didn't want nobody
Speaker 1: rhyming over my beat other than the artists. I didn't
Speaker 1: want nobody coming out with mixed tapes. I don't want
Speaker 1: nobody coming out with stuff. Yeah. I didn't want all that.
Speaker 1: So I was like I wanted to when I put
Speaker 1: this record out, only they gonna rhyme. You're only gonna
Speaker 1: hear them rhyming over it. I never even gave you
Speaker 1: a space to rhyme on those dubs. I would always
Speaker 1: put the vocals up, put fuck you up a little.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get clean sixteen, no clean eight because
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be rhyming over my beats.
Speaker 3: I had to give up something.
Speaker 1: I wasn't giving up that instrumental so let me And
Speaker 1: plus I was, you know, I used to love Jamaican
Speaker 1: dub music back in the day. I grew up of
Speaker 1: a lot of that, you know, so I used to
Speaker 1: always hear my Jamaican doesn't I always figure to myself
Speaker 1: why hip hop don't have dub versions, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of like when I was in Unique learning the equipment.
Speaker 1: I was learning the echoes, the quarter echoes, the so
Speaker 1: and sos. So I was like, always like, damn, it
Speaker 1: would be hot to have, you know, to give it
Speaker 1: that reggae flavor whatever, like certain certain words and you know.
Speaker 1: And plus you know in disco they was, you know,
Speaker 1: doing that a little bit too, So you know, I
Speaker 1: was like hearing some like garage versions of stuff they
Speaker 1: would have, like the echos, I was like, damn, they
Speaker 1: need to ad in hip hop too. So that's another
Speaker 1: reason why I went with it with the Bridge. I
Speaker 1: guess that probably the most notable all even you chopping
Speaker 1: up and peached the President. I always noticed that I
Speaker 1: would say that that record, if anything starts what I
Speaker 1: feel will be the accessory noise period of hip hop gotcha, which, uh,
Speaker 1: I guess you took Magic disco machines scratching. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: flipped it backwards. That backwards sound wasn't a mistake. That
Speaker 1: was I want to use scratching because I already you know,
Speaker 1: I was into my break beats. I already knew I
Speaker 1: liked scratching.
Speaker 3: When I used it.
Speaker 1: Forward with the beat, it didn't make sense really, you
Speaker 1: know when it was because it was like, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have made sense because them I flipped it backwards and
Speaker 1: played it backwards and triggered it and ran it with
Speaker 1: I ran it up against the kick because it's triggered
Speaker 1: off the kick. It created something special. So I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is real special. I never heard nothing like this
Speaker 1: on a record ever before. I'm turn this bitch up.
Speaker 1: So what are he's talking about is there's there's a
Speaker 1: break by the magic disco machine called scratching, which normally
Speaker 1: I mean it's a hip hop staple and most hip
Speaker 1: hop DJs will it's called a stab if there is
Speaker 1: if there's a horn part in the record with a
Speaker 1: good kick under it, that's your exclamation point. If you're
Speaker 1: a DJ. So when you when you're MC's rhyming over
Speaker 1: a beat and you want to that's your important that's
Speaker 1: your fist through the door. So what Marley basically did
Speaker 1: was reversed it to create the bridge, which is h
Speaker 1: and a little bit of echo to reverse an echo.
Speaker 3: So what is on your mind at this point?
Speaker 1: Because this is extremely unorthodox, right, that's that's pre public enemy.
Speaker 1: I know, you the verse that public What is on
Speaker 1: your mind when you're doing this? I mean that must
Speaker 1: have been you know, I mean when I made that
Speaker 1: and and the funny thing about making that record that
Speaker 1: wasn't even supposed to be a record that was interlude
Speaker 1: music for Queensbridge Day? Wait what that song was interlude
Speaker 1: music for Queensbridge Day. So because there was you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many bands in Queensbridge. Like I mentioned, there
Speaker 1: was many bands. So they used to have Queensbridge Day
Speaker 1: and the band used to perform. It wasn't even hip
Speaker 1: hop yet, So what bands are performing at Queensbridge? Like
Speaker 1: I said, Fred Fowl and all the residents used to
Speaker 1: come out because it was band heavy. Dale Payne used
Speaker 1: to have his artists out there. Andre Booth used to
Speaker 1: get busy. He used to have his artists, you know, everybody.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: They had Cinnamon used to come out there with dal
Speaker 3: Payne thanks to you. So they was a lot, you know.
Speaker 1: So we was just I said, yo, Shan, let's make
Speaker 1: a song for intermission, music for tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Wait.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be a record. I told
Speaker 1: you a lot of my stuff wasn't supposed to be records.
Speaker 1: I didn't get into this some of the great hip
Speaker 1: hop stories. It's just like, let me throw something together
Speaker 1: right right right, change someone's life real quick. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: don't try, You just do what in your heart and
Speaker 1: it just happens. I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying
Speaker 1: to become what what happened to this day. I was
Speaker 1: just I just wanted something hot for me to battle
Speaker 1: it on the radio and just come with some heat
Speaker 1: every week. I had to. I had to come with
Speaker 1: heat because you know, everybody was going against us. I
Speaker 1: had to create my own crew, my own ammunition.
Speaker 3: And it worked.
Speaker 1: So when the final products done, like, what are people
Speaker 1: looking at? Because we didn't know I'm going to ask
Speaker 1: a teenager. And I was very much aware of the
Speaker 1: song when it came out when I was fifteen, we
Speaker 1: were just like I thought, I was like, is that
Speaker 1: a fire truck?
Speaker 3: Like, what the hell is that noise?
Speaker 1: Like we could not, for the life of us figure
Speaker 1: out what it was or what you all were trying
Speaker 1: to convey, right, But it's just I just I was
Speaker 1: conveying mass hysteria, madness because when you know, I already
Speaker 1: knew that in piece to President kicking sneer was already
Speaker 1: head bopping material. And if you put some some fire
Speaker 1: behind it, which that noise was, I just figured that
Speaker 1: it's it's like a it's like an undeniable And we
Speaker 1: played this song about about four times that time in
Speaker 1: the park. Everybody was loving it. And you know, unfortunately
Speaker 1: somebody got killed that night at a peace rally. Oh
Speaker 1: the first day we played that in the park. Later
Speaker 1: on somebody got killed, damn. So it was it's kind
Speaker 1: of weird. The Queensbridge I know of where mob deepest
Speaker 1: rhyming about like yo, I might not make it tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Where does that come into play? Is this eighty seven
Speaker 1: to eighty is I mean Cracker Queen's Bridge. I think
Speaker 1: by the time that really started happening, the crack ever
Speaker 1: started really getting higher and higher. I think that's probably
Speaker 1: at the point when I moved out the hood, because
Speaker 1: it was getting out of control. Really, I mean it
Speaker 1: was like night of the Living base heads on the
Speaker 1: block type, you know, people walking through the lights is
Speaker 1: out on the block, and it turned into a different
Speaker 1: place at night, you know, And I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's when I decided to move to a story like
Speaker 1: how did you and mc shan hook up? One day
Speaker 1: I met Shann. I was in the river park. I
Speaker 1: believe I was probably writing rhymes. I was probably sitting
Speaker 1: in the park writing rhymes and I saw him riding
Speaker 1: his mini bike, and you know, he told me that
Speaker 1: he could rap, and I was like, Oh, that's what's up.
Speaker 1: That's cool. He told me, I gotta rhyme about you.
Speaker 1: I gotta rap about you. I'm like, all right, cool,
Speaker 1: he said. I said, well, just you know, bring about
Speaker 1: my house. One day, about a week later, he came
Speaker 1: by my house with it written on a bag and
Speaker 1: it was mall, he'scratched the full Master us when he's
Speaker 1: the dad that's on a right that was actually on
Speaker 1: the air records. So I mean of your arsenal, I mean,
Speaker 1: where does Shan rink. As far as the mcs that
Speaker 1: you've worked with, Shan he he ranks, he got, he
Speaker 1: got his number one status and a few things with me.
Speaker 1: He has a certain tone. His voice is like an instrument,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Certain people they could rhyme
Speaker 1: and talk and singers too. Some people could sing, but
Speaker 1: some people's voices are an instrument. And his voice is
Speaker 1: an instrument. Like the tone of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like an instrument.
Speaker 1: It's like a horn. It's like it's like a it's
Speaker 1: like an instrument. So I give him that.
Speaker 3: He's really though.
Speaker 1: And his rhymes, you know, you gotta think he made
Speaker 1: Jane back in the.
Speaker 2: Day, Jane.
Speaker 1: My mom loved that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my mom actually loves Jane. Stops Jane and my dad
Speaker 1: see it is positive. They're talking about not doing cracks.
Speaker 1: And he had the song about Cocaine. It was that
Speaker 1: love story, right, how he fell in love with this
Speaker 1: girl and at the end of the story it was
Speaker 1: her name was Cocaine. Oh, so you know he was
Speaker 1: kind of visualizing those those little rhymes kind of like we.
Speaker 3: Were you doing live shows with him as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was just DJ for me. So
Speaker 1: what was his what was his what was the crowd responsible?
Speaker 1: Like he had him he was he was he was
Speaker 1: like he was getting the ladies. He had like left
Speaker 1: me lonely out too. So yeah, he had his run.
Speaker 1: He had just definitely had a hard run with the chicks.
Speaker 1: Chicks Chicks used to like she before I bring.
Speaker 3: Up Kane which More eighty eight, I gotta.
Speaker 1: Know about your your your your your brief time with
Speaker 1: with with Rock Kemp, which mm hmm.
Speaker 3: I've seen a few shan things.
Speaker 1: Where he's like why did it whatever? Like what is
Speaker 1: what is the story of Eric Breeze President and well
Speaker 1: Eric b eric Bee was like a roommate to me
Speaker 1: and Queens. But he used to come, you know, come
Speaker 1: stay at the crib. He's from Queens, you know, he's
Speaker 1: actually from Corona. Queen's all East Elmhurst, one of them.
Speaker 1: But it's the same, you know, same kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But he used to hang out with him. Pol Or
Speaker 1: Pole introduced me to him, and you know he started
Speaker 1: hanging out with me then you know, starting not going home,
Speaker 1: really hanging out showing at the crib. You know, he
Speaker 1: used to see a lot of people come through then
Speaker 1: you know when he's like, yo, I got a rap up.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to bring a wrap up, you know,
Speaker 1: and he, you know, the first day, he said somebody
Speaker 1: was gonna come. I believe it was Freddie Fox. He
Speaker 1: didn't show up, so he could have been Freddie Fox.
Speaker 3: Wait, Freddy Fox should have been over that beat.
Speaker 1: Whoever would have showed up probably would have got it
Speaker 1: because we you know, we just had you know, he
Speaker 1: was just ready for a session, So who knows what
Speaker 1: we would have made, you get what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: obviously he didn't show up, so he said, I got
Speaker 1: somebody coming to the next day, which was Ra.
Speaker 3: So Ro came and we made my melody first. Now
Speaker 3: you had to think about it.
Speaker 1: I was just just getting in the studio with Caine,
Speaker 1: just you know, Kin was just writing for biz, so
Speaker 1: I was I was kind of like secretly making Kine
Speaker 1: album on the low, okay, because the record company act
Speaker 1: like he wasn't an artist, and I already knew it
Speaker 1: that he that he was dope, so I would just
Speaker 1: record him when when when bears would be late kind
Speaker 1: of thing, right, So he's getting an album together, So
Speaker 1: I'm working with Kine now rock Kim Kane and now
Speaker 1: rock Kim wanted to do my melody. Now now I
Speaker 1: was already rhyming, you know, fucking with g rapping Kine. Well,
Speaker 1: they was like one yeah, right right now he wanted.
Speaker 1: Now he came with my melody, which was like it
Speaker 1: was like so different at my house from what we
Speaker 1: was doing. It was mad slow. It was like it
Speaker 1: was a head bober. It was dope, but it was
Speaker 1: like a head bobber. Listen to record, and you know
Speaker 1: before he had came, you know, just the sessions before
Speaker 1: was like all energetic. So I was like, yo, sham man,
Speaker 1: recording man, real quick, wow, record the vocals, man, i'mna
Speaker 1: go over here real I'm running, you know, back and
Speaker 1: go program something else, go tap out something else.
Speaker 3: Just record his vocals. I wan't see all come out.
Speaker 3: You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Shan was a He would hang around the studio and
Speaker 1: learn and see what we was doing and learn learn
Speaker 1: how you know, learn Oh wow.
Speaker 3: This is how you do the vocals.
Speaker 1: Oh this is how you do this. So he was
Speaker 1: he was learning. He was he was an artist, but
Speaker 1: he was more of apprentice learner. He wanted to learn
Speaker 1: how to make make the music too. So I was like,
Speaker 1: I was set it up. I set it up when
Speaker 1: he went over there and went to the board and
Speaker 1: punched it up, and okay, all right, I'm going to
Speaker 1: equ you and EQ and no. I just left it
Speaker 1: ready for him, and yo, just record him. I'll be
Speaker 1: right back. You get what I'm saying. I taught him
Speaker 1: out of punching, you know, I was teaching shann how
Speaker 1: to do all. So I was like, all right, let
Speaker 1: me see if you nice record him. I'll be right back.
Speaker 1: So I went in the other room probably tapped out
Speaker 1: another beat while he was doing the vocals to My melody.
Speaker 1: By the time I came back out, I was like
Speaker 1: came out and like I was like, damn, I like this,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have the energy of what I've been
Speaker 1: doing where I'm at.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. It was it was dope,
Speaker 3: but it was like.
Speaker 1: When everything else I was doing with that, it was
Speaker 1: like out here, my melody was the perfect song to
Speaker 1: do the wa right right, right, right right, because like
Speaker 1: that came out right, I just remember, right, this is
Speaker 1: my melody by rock him Eric being rock him.
Speaker 3: It's slow, It's like what eighty. What's the yeah for
Speaker 3: the year.
Speaker 1: It went with the year the base check out my
Speaker 1: melody hands out of.
Speaker 3: A beat of yours.
Speaker 1: That beat right there was probably just on the spot makeup.
Speaker 1: And then I believe that Eric Be probably liked that.
Speaker 1: Doom Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom doom the baseline, but when
Speaker 1: you hear it changed. Since I only had a Casiot
Speaker 1: Season one O one and I was able to just
Speaker 1: have one MIDI program running, I was just changing the
Speaker 1: sound with the MIDI still playing, so it's going.
Speaker 3: Doom doom, doom, and then the bell.
Speaker 1: Then you had the other sounds. I'm just changing the
Speaker 1: patches playing the keyboards. That was me. That was me, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I start. Yeah, I started playing keyboards back then. But
Speaker 1: then I got bored with it and I kind of stopped.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I ever stopped, but after you know,
Speaker 1: around everybody's president. I played those base that baseline and
Speaker 1: that one, so I was learning a little about the keyboards,
Speaker 1: but for some reason I stopped. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just stopped. But in your mind, you're not thinking like
Speaker 1: this this is a new revolution right here. No, I
Speaker 1: just thinking that we finished the session and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: move on to the next one because I got beats
Speaker 1: to make. So how long before Eric Be's President gets me? Well,
Speaker 1: we made that, and I gave him a copy of
Speaker 1: what we did in the studio that day. And the
Speaker 1: next week I heard all over the radio, Wait.
Speaker 3: What's the time between my melody and Eric Beings President?
Speaker 1: How many days? It was? About the following week I
Speaker 1: heard on the radio, Well I heard, I heard, I
Speaker 1: started hearing it on the radio. And still then you
Speaker 1: didn't think like, no, I knew, I knew, I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew. I believe me. When I made Erb's President
Speaker 1: Duke's I already knew that that was gonna be this,
Speaker 1: that was gonna be it, because that was more of
Speaker 1: where I was at. You notice, I was at make
Speaker 1: the music with your mouth, beiz the bridge and all
Speaker 1: of that. And even then I think ninety seven btpms
Speaker 1: was a little slow for you, because by that point
Speaker 1: all your choices were like but one twelve like super fast.
Speaker 1: I know, but the you make the music and then
Speaker 1: nobody beat the biz was over there. You give what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Those was real good hits for me. So
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, I want to be over there.
Speaker 1: That's why I was trying to go, and that's why
Speaker 1: I want to bring Raw. I want to bring him there.
Speaker 1: I want to bring him right right right to where
Speaker 1: I was at with super fast and not not too fast,
Speaker 1: but you know where people can understand you and and dance.
Speaker 3: You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I will say that because by this point, I'll say
Speaker 1: that between you and the Bomb Squad, both of you
Speaker 1: guys pretty much revolutionizing and leading the pack of the
Speaker 1: new wave of hip hop, which is like just this
Speaker 1: sonic assault matching the time period I was like your
Speaker 1: your version of the the panic sound was definitely more
Speaker 1: I mean, it was more danceable and dance like. You
Speaker 1: could still play Raw to this day. You can still
Speaker 1: play Poison to this day, whereas I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: just the the engineering of some of the stuff on
Speaker 1: Nation of Millions is so dense that it doesn't doesn't
Speaker 1: cut through, Like how many, how many? How long is
Speaker 1: it taking you to mix the stuff? And no, you
Speaker 1: know a lot of that stuff was made in mastering.
Speaker 1: I had very good guys master and I her powers.
Speaker 1: I'm coughing bats back in the day I heard I
Speaker 1: had her powers dude, so I would come. He would
Speaker 1: hate yo. Let me tell you, he would hate to
Speaker 1: see me coming bro right, because you know I'm coming
Speaker 1: with some ship from the living room. Oh here come Mollie.
Speaker 1: I gotta fix this ship. But by the time I left,
Speaker 1: mastering them fucking yo them ships was like coom colmom.
Speaker 1: He really fixed a lot of my song. My song
Speaker 1: was made on on four tracks in the crib without
Speaker 1: dB X. Are you mcs using pop stoppers? Just straight
Speaker 1: up like what type of mic? I had a sure
Speaker 1: mic without the without the bubble, without Wow. That's why, Mike,
Speaker 1: That's why my melody sounds so screechy in his voice.
Speaker 1: Roxanne sound so screechy some sham records and king because
Speaker 1: I had a fucked up Mike Tarik refuses. Tarik will
Speaker 1: do eight of his vocals on like a sure fifty eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hoping to get that. That just rhyming with the distortion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta take the top off that ball. There was
Speaker 1: there was rhyming with the ball off. I didn't even
Speaker 1: have a ball. Were so broke?
Speaker 3: Do you still have that? Yes?
Speaker 1: I do. I still got that, Mike. I can still
Speaker 1: got that. If you if i'd have known he was
Speaker 1: going to talk about that A brought out.
Speaker 3: That's more. I always be bringing it with me.
Speaker 6: Have one got to they got any of your stuff
Speaker 6: in the new Smithsonian and DC, I feel like maybe
Speaker 6: they need to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe after this it could happen.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's trust me. Actually, I think shout out to
Speaker 1: Timothy at the Smithsonian. I think she's a Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: meet with her. Give her more artifacts there. That's a
Speaker 1: cool thing about the Smithsonian For a pack rack like me.
Speaker 1: I could just give her the stuff and she is
Speaker 1: the hip hop Yeah, absolutely make the connection. How does
Speaker 1: Caine enter the well the picture? Let me let me
Speaker 1: finish with the Eric Bees President because the beat from
Speaker 1: Eric B's President came from a song that I made
Speaker 1: called Stun of the Block by Tragedy. I'm gonna send
Speaker 1: you it. We're gonna put it on this but it
Speaker 1: came from a song called Stun of the Block and
Speaker 1: you know the funky cuts because DJ hot Day used
Speaker 1: to be Tragedy's DJ. So I made a song called
Speaker 1: Stun of the Block right after super Kids.
Speaker 3: The Tragedy Won't Happen to Me.
Speaker 1: Made that and then the follow up song was a
Speaker 1: song called Stun of the Block. Now Stun of the
Speaker 1: Block had Eric Be's President kicks in there at the pattern.
Speaker 2: All of that.
Speaker 1: But when I did everybody's president since I couldn't make
Speaker 1: Stun of the Block a record because they couldn't they
Speaker 1: was too young to talk about stunts stunts on the block.
Speaker 1: How old was Strategedy? He probably was about probably about
Speaker 1: twelve when he made Stunt of the Block of twelve
Speaker 1: or thirteen, very very young. He's like, wait, speaking of which,
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't want to miss it. Craig
Speaker 1: g Yeah, did you produce Veronica like all the stuff that.
Speaker 3: He did for pop Art?
Speaker 1: Right, A lot of stuff he did for pop Art?
Speaker 1: I did produce a lot of it in the earlier stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh god, okay, okay, yeah. So so what basically happened.
Speaker 1: I took the drums from Stunt of the Block to
Speaker 1: turn everything down, just kept the drums, then put over
Speaker 1: like a fat rat baseline over it. So I already
Speaker 1: had that drum pattern already for another record. I sent
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you all that for this so wow,
Speaker 1: and then and then you could hear it. You can
Speaker 1: hear it. It's the same drums, same everything, but it's
Speaker 1: different music. But I couldn't. I had to erase all
Speaker 1: of that ship. I don't even have Stunning the Block more.
Speaker 1: But I got the mixes, but I had to erase
Speaker 1: everything on the master you need to make a dub
Speaker 1: I got. I got the copies, mixes and instrumental and
Speaker 1: all that, but I don't have the master because the
Speaker 1: beat was so hot.
Speaker 3: It's Verbody's president.
Speaker 1: If I didn't erase what was there, you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: the foundation of Eric Being's president.
Speaker 3: Okay, I guess that's so sorthy second.
Speaker 1: In my mind at the funeral for Stunning the Block,
Speaker 1: like you never made it right, right right? I got
Speaker 1: the mixes though, I got you know, all types of
Speaker 1: mixes from it, but I don't have the actual multi track.
Speaker 1: But I got so by this point, is the SB
Speaker 1: twelve now your instrument of choice?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 1: You're still no. Let this be a note that that
Speaker 1: all the great hip hop producers still hold.
Speaker 3: True their their weapon of choice. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 3: still have a few of them.
Speaker 1: So you say Ninth is still using fruity.
Speaker 3: Loops, he I think he is.
Speaker 1: I mean, at one point in time he was heavy
Speaker 1: on on machine, right, So I think he's using machine now,
Speaker 1: but I want to say back in like twenty it's
Speaker 1: like maybe twenty twelve thirteen, he sent me like a
Speaker 1: whole batch. She was like, yo, new fruity joints, all
Speaker 1: fruity loop beats.
Speaker 3: He went back to it. So yeah, he's still He's
Speaker 3: still on it. And you know what me, I moved
Speaker 3: I moved on.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could still use the old stuff, but
Speaker 1: I have my twelve hundreds, but I do use my
Speaker 1: my renaissance and going to the twelve hundred mold because
Speaker 1: it feels kind of like a twelve hundred, does it though?
Speaker 1: I mean the sound, not the feel. The sound a
Speaker 1: little ashy okay renaissance, but it doesn't it didn't do
Speaker 1: it like this doesn't feel the same. I still, I mean,
Speaker 1: I've learned on machine, but I'm still like I'm still
Speaker 1: grabbing the my weapon of choices in the two thousand.
Speaker 1: I do have a twelve hundred.
Speaker 3: Big o DC.
Speaker 1: You got the two thousand. I use logic in reasons
Speaker 1: right now, I'm a logic guy or reasons. So you're
Speaker 1: not afraid of technology, No, I move with it. I'm
Speaker 1: not getting left behind at all because if I would
Speaker 1: have been the person to get left behind, I probably
Speaker 1: would have been sampling. You get what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: probably would have never sampled that first thing and used
Speaker 1: it for what it was at that point. I'm always
Speaker 1: the one to grab technology and and use it for
Speaker 1: what I need it for. You're going to make it
Speaker 1: for what you're making it for, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: use it for what I need it for. I see.
Speaker 1: So in eighty eight, is I mean, are you overwhelmed
Speaker 1: at this point because you're making the Going Off record,
Speaker 1: You're making Cane's record, You're making Chante's stuff. Yeah, cool,
Speaker 1: g raps about the end of the photo and how
Speaker 1: and how long would you spending on these records? Just
Speaker 1: real quick, like how long would it take to make
Speaker 1: Going Off? We're making a record? Like we're making two
Speaker 1: records a day type type thing. Was like it was
Speaker 1: like an assembly line. We're making two records a day.
Speaker 1: Who's next, what's tomorrow? Sessions after session? Every day is
Speaker 1: a session? Is it still in your kitchen?
Speaker 3: This way?
Speaker 1: After I moved to a story, it became like an
Speaker 1: assembly line. That's when I met Kan. So talk about King.
Speaker 1: Now King comes to my door business. Late one day
Speaker 1: he comes to my door. Yeah I'm thinking. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: he's trying to stick me up because now I lived
Speaker 1: in the story.
Speaker 3: Finally, I was like, what do you want to get paranoid?
Speaker 3: You know? Now I go downstairs. It's a dude.
Speaker 1: Some dogs can do it at the door, Like, yo,
Speaker 1: I don't even know this dude. I don't know why
Speaker 1: I even buzzed him in my building. He got to
Speaker 1: the door. I'm like, there, I don't even know this dude.
Speaker 1: I left buzz him in the building at the door,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, ship, he's like upstairs, so it's only
Speaker 1: one of him. It's only me and him. So I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: it's not two of them. So it's just gonna have
Speaker 1: to be me and dukes. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So so anyway, like you know, I opened my door
Speaker 1: like I have a little halfway and ships jo what up? Like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm here to meet Bizz. Oh yeah, I'm like, so
Speaker 1: I write business rhymes. I say, oh you do, so
Speaker 1: tell me a rhyme that you wrote for biz And
Speaker 1: he said some ship that never came out yet. Okay.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is nik official because how
Speaker 1: are you gonna know that? I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: come in. So I let him in the ship and
Speaker 1: we're sitting there. We're sitting there talking and ship. We're
Speaker 1: sitting there. You know, he's telling me that, you.
Speaker 2: Know, rhyme a little.
Speaker 1: You know, I never heard myself on the on the
Speaker 1: mic on the on the so and so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh whatever. So you know, we're sitting there.
Speaker 1: Biz kind of late, so you know, I said, fuck,
Speaker 1: let me throwing, throwing, fucking I'll take you there beat
Speaker 1: you had it made already. Yeah, matter of fact, he said,
Speaker 1: let's run. I like to rhyme off. I take you that.
Speaker 1: So I chopped it up real quick and put it there.
Speaker 1: Then then the ship had Big Dady, you know that ship.
Speaker 1: And I caught that and started like, He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: so that's gonna be kind of bond that I made that.
Speaker 1: He rhymed off that, and that was kind of like
Speaker 1: his first little demo before BIZ got there, did or
Speaker 1: was he? He wass already big Daddy, But when he
Speaker 1: rhymed ing that, I knew. I was like, Yo, this
Speaker 1: nigga is way different from everybody I'm fucking with here.
Speaker 1: This Nigga is the ship.
Speaker 3: This niggas he's the real ship.
Speaker 1: Because the diction was righty at the voice, and I
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, Nigga kind of dice and and I
Speaker 1: went back to the record coming Yo Biz right is
Speaker 1: the ship?
Speaker 3: Yo Biz writing new artists.
Speaker 1: They told me so well, and so on the low,
Speaker 1: I would just record, you know, I would just record
Speaker 1: more with him every time he would come.
Speaker 3: I'm recording a little more with him, get more, ammo.
Speaker 1: And then after a while I was like, yo, we
Speaker 1: had his album done, ship, but I kind of I
Speaker 1: kind of did his his earlier recordings around bisbeeing late
Speaker 1: son's lateness to Thank's career. Well, you know, especially the
Speaker 1: first record, because that's how we first bonded off, the
Speaker 1: first you know, the first little thing and at that
Speaker 1: time in hip hop, because you know, you just say
Speaker 1: so freely, like, well, Kane was business writer. Was there
Speaker 1: any kind of stigma in terms of being a m
Speaker 1: C that had a writer? You know that The funny
Speaker 1: thing nobody with Biz, I mean nobody never won at
Speaker 1: him for they probably didn't even know that he didn't
Speaker 1: write the Vapors first, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: They didn't know Caine wrote the Vapors for him.
Speaker 1: You know, Biz rhymes when he wrote a rhyme, it
Speaker 1: was like a fun, happy rhyme, but any rhyme that
Speaker 1: made a lot of sense. He wrote the toilet.
Speaker 2: Most likely.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Has Biz always spelled his name in every rhyme he's
Speaker 1: ever spent to be that that was the selling point too.
Speaker 1: He understood marketing very early. I feel you're there in
Speaker 1: the last hour of this very special court Lovel Supreme
Speaker 1: interview with the legendary Marley Maaul who just told us
Speaker 1: about working with some of the best c's of the
Speaker 1: eighties and not even dating it. I think of all
Speaker 1: time period of all time, Yes, definitely of all time.
Speaker 1: So Kin and g Rap in the same crew because
Speaker 1: that version of Raw that I heard where they just
Speaker 1: why didn't that come come?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, well why did I even make the B
Speaker 1: side of the real version? Your man g Rat rhymed
Speaker 1: all the way to the end. He killed it, you know,
Speaker 1: he was like g Rap, I mean it was that
Speaker 1: was a real battle. That was it was really going
Speaker 1: on that that was like really because at that point
Speaker 1: Kane was getting so famous in the crew and g
Speaker 1: Rap been here already, so he was like trying to
Speaker 1: hold He was around before k Right, he was around
Speaker 1: before Kaneka. Yeah, he was around before Kane. So you know,
Speaker 1: the the new cat against the the you know, the
Speaker 1: the street rapper, you give what I'm saying. G rap
Speaker 1: was always that the hard rapper with with with Polo.
Speaker 1: Now they get to clash on the record going off
Speaker 1: on a crazy beat. Oh man, that ship was crazy
Speaker 1: when they killed that raw ship. So even then, did
Speaker 1: you feel like there's some historical shit? Yeah? I knew
Speaker 1: right there because it was like the it was my
Speaker 1: Titans right there going at it. It was clash of
Speaker 1: the Titans. It was clash of the Titans for us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was crazy. So this leads to.
Speaker 3: The story.
Speaker 1: Well I have two stories of the symphony, Okay, One
Speaker 1: Why was Shan not on the symphony? Mm hmm too
Speaker 1: why was Kane obviously not.
Speaker 3: My first person?
Speaker 1: Well, basically, you know we made that record when we
Speaker 1: left the photo shoot on the back when we all
Speaker 1: standing and from this plane was that we rented that
Speaker 1: It was a prop.
Speaker 3: There was a prop. Everything was a problem.
Speaker 1: You started many unreachable, right of course. I just thought like,
Speaker 1: oh that's what we gotta do.
Speaker 3: We gotta make it. One day when we yeah, no doubt,
Speaker 3: you know, I was I was told that. The first
Speaker 3: Instagram front of.
Speaker 1: He's like, yo, you know, he was like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: get in front of a plane. We looked like we're
Speaker 1: doing it. We looked like we, you know, we're really
Speaker 1: doing it. So we got in front of that. You know,
Speaker 1: we got in front of that plane and people thought
Speaker 1: we was really doing it. And yes, we thought you
Speaker 1: were doing it. And then guess what happened? Then we
Speaker 1: started really doing it. It's like sometime you you know,
Speaker 1: you speaking into existence like that, and we kind of did.
Speaker 1: And next thing, you know, I mean, that wasn't my
Speaker 1: first time being there private joint. I was already experienced
Speaker 1: the experience in the Chante Area era, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So, but we stood in front of those
Speaker 1: and looked like we just came from off tour. It
Speaker 1: looked like we're so busy. And wow, after that, after that,
Speaker 1: those pictures came out and everybody saw that we really
Speaker 1: started getting that busy. They came right in. Well that
Speaker 1: that inspired and and for shar not being on the record,
Speaker 1: he you know, he just he didn't, you know, he
Speaker 1: didn't show up. He's supposed to come, he said, I'll
Speaker 1: meet you o there and he just didn't come. And
Speaker 1: you know, I put does he regret it? I don't know.
Speaker 3: You may have to ask him when you get him here.
Speaker 7: You not.
Speaker 3: Once it was just like damn, I wanted to be
Speaker 3: on that, Like I would have been salty.
Speaker 1: You know, but that was a big record because look
Speaker 1: what would have did for imagine if that was in
Speaker 1: dudes arsenal, it could have been you know, maybe a
Speaker 1: little different situation, a different turnout. It could have been
Speaker 1: a little different. I mean not to say anything you
Speaker 1: know bad would do, but you know he could have
Speaker 1: had that in his arson or like yo' chefing what
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And that means a lot
Speaker 1: because master it's considered the greatest, one of the greatest
Speaker 1: pos there you go, so that that's that the first
Speaker 1: I mean, he had the crash crew and all those guys,
Speaker 1: but this is like a posse of guys that wasn't
Speaker 1: a crew, right, there's a posse of guys that you know,
Speaker 1: we we and juice crew, but we could hold our own.
Speaker 1: Anybody could hold their own kind of I can make
Speaker 1: my own record and still stand. But you know, master
Speaker 1: ast very well from being the first person on that record,
Speaker 1: you know, And I put him there as a filler,
Speaker 1: trying to put him there just in case he wasn't
Speaker 1: even supposed to really stay there. Get you get what
Speaker 1: you're holding out for.
Speaker 3: For whoever was supposed to show you mind? Who did
Speaker 3: you think was gonna was it raw?
Speaker 1: Like do you think rock Ken would have held his
Speaker 1: own on the on this video that that was too
Speaker 1: slow for him? He would have been dope because he
Speaker 1: rock He rock be his president, so he would have
Speaker 1: killed that symphony. I think, to be honest, I would
Speaker 1: have always liked to hear I think Chante. If Chante
Speaker 1: was on a symphony, Boddy we she you know, I
Speaker 1: always I wanted her to be on it. But I
Speaker 1: had a record with her already on my album, so
Speaker 1: I you know, I had a record bracket. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was up with the war between or the back of
Speaker 1: I mean they didn't necessarily respond, but like what was
Speaker 1: her feeling at that time? Was it like all these
Speaker 1: females are blowing up with these pop hits, and you
Speaker 1: know when it's my turn? Because by that point, Salt
Speaker 1: and Pepper was kicking in. I know that whack it
Speaker 1: was probably aimed at even them or JJ fat whatever,
Speaker 1: but even I guess she even addressed it on H
Speaker 1: Bad Sister, the first cut on the solo record that
Speaker 1: she did. I believe she was her feeling at that time,
Speaker 1: was it like when's it going to be my turn?
Speaker 1: Or she just wasn't a fan of of you know,
Speaker 1: because she was kind of hardcore rap and going at
Speaker 1: people in the crowd, and you know, she just wasn't
Speaker 1: with that pop thing yet. I mean it's before pop
Speaker 1: was proven, you know what I mean. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: know she probably didn't appreciate being you know, rapping and
Speaker 1: going hard and then they come in with it sounded
Speaker 1: like a son and they didn't even try to make
Speaker 1: and it went really well.
Speaker 3: It's like.
Speaker 1: It just got lucky, you know, not lucky, but you
Speaker 1: know it just went well. Sometimes you don't put effort
Speaker 1: into something. You just rock out and say what you
Speaker 1: feel and put it in the atmosphere and it could
Speaker 1: work out. But there's some people that go in the
Speaker 1: studio and bus day ass and it don't become anything.
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe she just felt that yo, I'm
Speaker 1: putting in work and all they gotta do is that
Speaker 1: and pop and that. You know, but certain things are
Speaker 1: for certain people, you know what I mean. One thing
Speaker 1: about Kane though, uh, I noticed that he was sort
Speaker 1: of the neutral member of the Jews crew, whereas even
Speaker 1: Chris would shot him out on BDP records. But I mean,
Speaker 1: what was his position on being a Jewe crew member?
Speaker 3: Like, was it like, yo, why are you cool?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 3: Was it?
Speaker 1: To be honest, they always had a special friendship. Okay,
Speaker 1: Karas one and and and and Kane. I believe that
Speaker 1: Karas One and Miss Melody moved Kine out of his
Speaker 1: place in Brooklyn when he first got his condo for
Speaker 1: his first album, you ge know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: they always had a special a friendship way before friendship. Okay,
Speaker 1: So so was that weird or awkward like I'm in
Speaker 1: the Juice Crew now? Well, I guess that's something they
Speaker 1: had to deal with. I mean, because Keros didn't mention
Speaker 1: him on any records. Right, And by this point is
Speaker 1: mister Magic even a factor in eighty seven eighty eight
Speaker 1: at that point, mister Magic, I would say by the
Speaker 1: eighty by the early nineties, he probably he wasn't much
Speaker 1: of a factor with everybody. Anybody was their own person.
Speaker 1: Then I wasn't on the radio with him anymore. I
Speaker 1: was doing starting to do in Control because I had
Speaker 1: an in Control album out. Put it out in what
Speaker 1: eighty nine?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 1: Eighty eighty eight, I got the budget in eighty seven,
Speaker 1: bought a house. You get what I'm saying. So at
Speaker 1: any point during this period, is this a no pun
Speaker 1: intended a water under the bridge moment? Like have you
Speaker 1: ever not run into BDP in those years and been
Speaker 1: like all right, let's talk.
Speaker 3: And you know what the funny thing? I took it serious.
Speaker 1: I wasn't fucking with them dudes. Okay, you ain't see
Speaker 1: me on no commercials, no Sprike commercials. I was not
Speaker 1: fucking with them, bro, really.
Speaker 3: Because everybody they were trying to take your livelihood.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm like, dude, you know I ain't improved how
Speaker 1: y'all came so fuck y'all. So I never did nothing
Speaker 1: with them. Nothing.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wanted to be in a Spike commercial.
Speaker 3: So even when the shan did the Spike commercial wanted
Speaker 3: me in there, I said, no, I ain't fucking with it.
Speaker 1: I'm not fucking with y'all. They may used to be
Speaker 1: though they could do all that, but you didn't see
Speaker 1: my face in there. You ain't seen me, fucking So
Speaker 1: took a long time for y'all to finally have that conversation.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we finally, you know, because I never I
Speaker 1: never really understood why he was mad at us. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm always thought in my mind, why why why why
Speaker 1: he was mad at us? Dude? We the motherfucking Juice Coupe.
Speaker 1: We out here saving hip hop. Yeah, we are here
Speaker 1: saving hip hop, dude, and you got something to say.
Speaker 1: So I never understood why he was mad until one
Speaker 1: day I read his bio and in his bio he
Speaker 1: said it all happened with a chance meeting with mister Magic,
Speaker 1: and he described what happened, and I remembered that day.
Speaker 3: I said, oh, that was those motherfuckers.
Speaker 1: Then it all came to me, Oh, they was mad
Speaker 1: because that's the niggas, that magic shit. He dissed them
Speaker 1: and slammed the door and left me in there with
Speaker 1: them out. So on your mind when you're hearing the
Speaker 1: bridges over, it's coming from someone totally random that had nothing.
Speaker 5: To do with right.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't understand where it was coming from.
Speaker 1: And and I guess what. And I didn't even explore why.
Speaker 1: I didn't give a fuck, so I just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: fuck it, let me just walk away for a minute.
Speaker 1: I never really realized until I read his bio in
Speaker 1: the nineties. I was like hot in ninety seven and
Speaker 1: Tracy's office Tracy Chlordy's office. One day and I was
Speaker 1: going through bios. I saw PDPs off bdp's bio. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this looks interesting.
Speaker 3: See what they say about the Let me read this right,
Speaker 3: and I'm going through it.
Speaker 1: It all happened one day mister Magic got power Play
Speaker 1: Studio and he dissed us. I said, this ship never happened.
Speaker 1: Then I said, oh, motherfuckers. And this was like this
Speaker 1: had to be ten years later, y'ah.
Speaker 6: Wow, So how long did it take then for you
Speaker 6: to when you see him again at some point? Now
Speaker 6: that yeah, after I found out after.
Speaker 1: One day, it was like, yo, meet the way me
Speaker 1: and Chris met each other. I don't know where it
Speaker 1: was at wasn't it was in a revolving door in
Speaker 1: the building. Dudes, I swear to god, dukes. I was
Speaker 1: on one side of revolving though he was on the other.
Speaker 1: I looked at him, he looked at that. That was
Speaker 1: the first time we ever met each other.
Speaker 6: Kid.
Speaker 1: So I came outside and I said, Yo, what up.
Speaker 1: He's like, YO, what up? And then we started talking.
Speaker 1: I said yo.
Speaker 3: I was like, Yo, that was y'all.
Speaker 1: That power play y'all said y'all. I never knew why
Speaker 1: y'all had beef, he said, yo.
Speaker 3: Then he started explaining it and I was like why.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, that was y'all.
Speaker 3: I was like, Yo, that's that's it was crazy. It
Speaker 3: just fucked my head up.
Speaker 1: The bridges over was the original stand yep.
Speaker 3: Great analogy.
Speaker 1: Then so after that we spoke, and then after that
Speaker 1: we got pretty cool. And then one day he called
Speaker 1: me and said, Yo, yots do album. I didn't really
Speaker 1: talk to him until like it had to be like
Speaker 1: two thousand. Damn.
Speaker 3: I wasn't fucking with them at all.
Speaker 1: I appreciate, at least as a as a fan, that
Speaker 1: it didn't escalate further. Whereas you know, that seems to
Speaker 1: be the ongoing narrative for anything post ninety five ninety
Speaker 1: six hip hop, no doubt, But I mean, was it
Speaker 1: just that that wasn't even an option?
Speaker 3: Or were you careful and where you went? Like I'm
Speaker 3: not going I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I wasn't the one to go hang out in
Speaker 1: the Bronx at two in the morning, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying with that shit going on. But but I
Speaker 1: wasn't a fever. I was in the disco fever with
Speaker 1: magic a lot and nothing that nothing ever happened to me.
Speaker 1: I used to be there all the time in the Bronx,
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. So did you not club
Speaker 1: a lot? But would you go to very like do
Speaker 1: you have Latin Quarter stories or or the rooftop or Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would go. I would go check it out. I
Speaker 1: would check it out. What was your spot in New
Speaker 1: York too? I used to like Latin Quarter back in
Speaker 1: the day. I used to like Latin Quarter was the ship?
Speaker 1: Would you go just to testing? I would go check
Speaker 1: it out? Union Square? I used to like Union Square.
Speaker 1: The last show at Union Square was me and Shan
Speaker 1: and then the place got shut down after that, never
Speaker 1: to open again. Really turned into so you go to
Speaker 1: Latin Quarter even though that was Red's home. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would go there, you know, just stop over there and
Speaker 1: see what's going on? Because he wasn't playing at night. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. He would be like maybe
Speaker 1: on Saturday night he would be there. Yeah. So for you,
Speaker 1: what's the typical night at Latin Quarter like which I
Speaker 1: would go through see the ball busters move out their way.
Speaker 1: It was like a cruel people like that. You gotta
Speaker 1: think about. That's the time of the when everybody was
Speaker 1: wild and in New York, say, it's like fifty people
Speaker 1: will walk around and just terrorize the block and you
Speaker 1: weren't noyed at all. I would step back. I would
Speaker 1: always step back, and you know a lot of people
Speaker 1: would know who I am, like, Yo, what I mom?
Speaker 3: And just give me that.
Speaker 1: I never had problems like that. Never, Never in the
Speaker 1: streets out here.
Speaker 2: Never.
Speaker 1: I don't be having because I don't. I don't present
Speaker 1: that type of energy, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't got no attitude. I'm good with everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm giving slapping people DAPs, taking my pictures. You know,
Speaker 1: people always got loved when they see me. Most people's
Speaker 1: producers are doing something and they you know, in mind
Speaker 1: what I did, Yo, Yo, thank you for so and so.
Speaker 1: Thank you for at wherever I go. I never got
Speaker 1: to be I don't. I don't be having beef like
Speaker 1: that because I don't, you know, it's just not like that.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't carry that type of energy.
Speaker 1: So how would you test a record, Like if you
Speaker 1: had an example of like a record you had that
Speaker 1: you wanted the DJ, like, would you use those clubs
Speaker 1: to test to see? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would.
Speaker 1: I'll see what they're playing, see what's hot, see what
Speaker 1: they fucking with seeing you know, see what you know,
Speaker 1: see what they're playing.
Speaker 3: What was your greatest story reaction of like this is
Speaker 3: just gonna work?
Speaker 1: Like, oh, when I used to see that, already knew
Speaker 1: public Ending was public Enemy was a go because anytime
Speaker 1: Public Enemy music would play in any of those clubs
Speaker 1: back in the day, regardless of what Magic said, they
Speaker 1: ship was popping. But I'm in for your records. For me,
Speaker 1: nobody beats the biz. Nobody the biz was big for me.
Speaker 1: Something for the radio was extra big for me. Wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about that record preps ever find out like,
Speaker 1: what's that to me? Is one of the most that
Speaker 1: that's that's a genius moment in sampling. Yeah for you
Speaker 1: day Yeah. One day I was watching the movie and
Speaker 1: I just saw it. I was like, Yo, that was dope,
Speaker 1: and I had the v back and I just went
Speaker 1: straight to their car with the VHS and the prince.
Speaker 3: Ever did they even get wise to it?
Speaker 1: They cleared it from me one days. Label mats. You
Speaker 1: don't get what I said, So one day I'll leave it.
Speaker 1: I'll leave it at that. Never mind.
Speaker 3: What I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Hold up, I'm saying that they used it, and they
Speaker 1: used it in something and cleared it back from me.
Speaker 1: Didn't know where it came from. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3: This one a little bit, all right.
Speaker 1: They used something for the radio and cleared it with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah wait I hmm, okay, I'm gonna play visit someone
Speaker 1: with radio and I gotta figure out what he just
Speaker 1: dropped in my lat This is benchmarky something for the radio.
Speaker 1: Sho yo, stop playing around bringing the baby. Okay. So,
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, like, Under the Chair Moon
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite b C films of all time.
Speaker 1: Boss Bill can the classic follow up The Purple Ring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a classic.
Speaker 3: I think it is too.
Speaker 1: It is it is, even though you know critics are
Speaker 1: it's out of it?
Speaker 3: You don't like it? I did not like Under the
Speaker 3: Chair moan. But well no, no, let me say this.
Speaker 3: It is a classic the film.
Speaker 1: It's a classic.
Speaker 3: But for all the all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2: No, but it is classic.
Speaker 1: It is classic.
Speaker 3: I actually went to the movies to see that.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I did too.
Speaker 3: I cut Church Is Wow.
Speaker 1: Yes, and coming after Proper Rain, it was just like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is this?
Speaker 3: He's expanding expanding, So.
Speaker 1: Are you allowed to tell the meta story of it
Speaker 1: or no?
Speaker 3: We'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 1: Okay. I don't know if the remix ever came out,
Speaker 1: but I know one day I was approached by they
Speaker 1: team to clear that for a remix that they were doing,
Speaker 1: and they used something for the radio that is the
Speaker 1: most mind blowing awesome hisst story.
Speaker 9: Well, it's kind of like the J Swift remix of
Speaker 9: Let It Go, Let It Go resamples Dorothy Parker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but does he cleared himself?
Speaker 3: He has to clear it? I don't know, for like,
Speaker 3: does Prince have to clear a print sample on his
Speaker 3: own record?
Speaker 1: That's I mean, probably through that publishing if it's a
Speaker 1: different publisher. Because I got a lot of titles and
Speaker 1: a different different administrators for different songs. So if I
Speaker 1: have a different administrator for something, I probably would have
Speaker 1: to clear it with the other side.
Speaker 3: Wow, So can you measure not cleaning your own temple?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Getting sued by yourself? So i'msuing myself so real quick
Speaker 1: for for raw yes to get that, to get that
Speaker 1: naked drum break, right? Am I assuming that you went
Speaker 1: to the UK to pick up the twelve inch of
Speaker 1: Bobby Birds, I'm coming to get that because that wasn't
Speaker 1: in circulation at that point. So you would like, was
Speaker 1: this from your your your your traveling to Europe?
Speaker 3: And like, what is your digging game like?
Speaker 1: As far as at that point I was, I was
Speaker 1: digging kind of hard because I was, you know, ahead
Speaker 1: of everybody and trying to stay ahead of a body
Speaker 1: when it came to these kicks and snares I want
Speaker 1: to have, you know. But the funny thing is the
Speaker 1: more I Doug, the more I realized that in Peace
Speaker 1: to President was the ship I could never I couldn't
Speaker 1: never stop. Yes, it was hard to find ship that
Speaker 1: that top that one, and you know that made the
Speaker 1: most hits. So you know, I would go to every country.
Speaker 1: I would go to. Of course, I would go raide
Speaker 1: the record stores and look for certain artists and certain things,
Speaker 1: you know, certain situations. You know. I used to always
Speaker 1: do that, but then after a while, you know, I would.
Speaker 1: I'm the type of guy like this, I love them
Speaker 1: and leave them dukes. I sample him and and and
Speaker 1: once I put it down, I could lose the record.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't have it no more. I sample it,
Speaker 1: and it could be there once I got it in
Speaker 1: digital form, I might lose the wax or whatever.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like that, once I sample it for me,
Speaker 1: I know, you know, a lot of a lot of times,
Speaker 1: like like those original and Peace to President records that
Speaker 1: I sample.
Speaker 3: I don't know what those forty five is that, dude.
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of my records, Like I
Speaker 1: got like a place full of records that I don't
Speaker 1: I don't keep up with. Where what is?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know this is the section for that.
Speaker 3: I don't really do that. I just need somebody to.
Speaker 1: Start start doing that, because there's cats like me and
Speaker 1: maybe about fifty other cats there are now just in
Speaker 1: the present, you know, preserving history business of you know,
Speaker 1: I'm certain that wherever that forty five is and your
Speaker 1: storage been or whatever like that is, I got it.
Speaker 1: And but the bottom beat to the Symphony on drums,
Speaker 1: that that was an Aaron Fuchs hookup too. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what the hell at is. That's a crazy beat.
Speaker 1: I was always trying to figure out how you had
Speaker 1: access to all these rare forty fives that I will
Speaker 1: be charged forty dollars, fifty dollars sixty seventy eighty ninety
Speaker 1: dollars going to Japan to get you know, there they'll
Speaker 1: sell you synthetic substitution forty five for like two hundred bucks.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you have these records. So yeah, he
Speaker 1: gave he gave me a lot, and he gave me
Speaker 1: substitution back in the day too, got that on forty
Speaker 1: forty five. All right, so we got time to talk
Speaker 1: about Uncleel Yeah, I always got Yeah, give us the story,
Speaker 1: like how I mean, at this point, you have the
Speaker 1: world in your hands. You you you came with rock Sand,
Speaker 1: you came with Chan, you came with Caine, He came
Speaker 1: with Master as he came with Kraigg.
Speaker 3: Then I left the Juice Crew.
Speaker 1: That's right, you went to Uptown for a second. That's right.
Speaker 1: I had left the Juice Crew because how how it
Speaker 1: was like at that point, I got tired of it.
Speaker 1: I was like, Dukes, man, I did all this, Yo,
Speaker 1: I made like four albums this year. I only made
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars. I was a staff producer with
Speaker 1: Cold Chilling, and I was like, yo, I only made
Speaker 1: I made four albums that year, and I was making
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars a year. And I'm like, Dukes,
Speaker 1: I could make one album and get three fifty four hundred.
Speaker 3: You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I was like, that was it. After I did
Speaker 1: those four albums, I broke out.
Speaker 4: So that was what.
Speaker 1: You didn't really do none of this, I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: you never did no one sophomore.
Speaker 3: Let me tell you what I did.
Speaker 1: To be honest with Cold Chilling, our doctor dre them,
Speaker 1: I just walked away. I was like, y'all can have this,
Speaker 1: y'all do this go ahead?
Speaker 3: Was a row.
Speaker 1: At that point, I mean, there wasn't. It wasn't nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing crazy like that. It's just that I figured I
Speaker 1: could make more money over here. So I took that
Speaker 1: took Tragedy, Craig g and we went we went our way,
Speaker 1: and then I was working with Heavy D. I had
Speaker 1: hits with Heavy D that started toppling what I was
Speaker 1: doing over there. You get what I'm saying. I made
Speaker 1: a lot of good records at Cold Chill, and we
Speaker 1: had a lot of good a lot of good historical
Speaker 1: records Chilling. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you kind of built that.
Speaker 1: But those are not my most successful records in my catalog.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: But from a from a sentimental standpoint, we're always going
Speaker 1: to think, oh, raw, aproach the rich, all that stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, But those are not the ones you know
Speaker 1: those are those are great records, but those are out
Speaker 1: my grossing records that I could live off of to
Speaker 1: this day. I feel you understand. So it's a difference.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't retire off that ship unless somebody
Speaker 1: sample it, you know what I mean. Before before you
Speaker 1: get into ll right, Okay, you work with Tragedy when
Speaker 1: he was twelve, and then when he changed to Intelligent Hitler,
Speaker 1: right that that I think that Intelligent Hitler record is
Speaker 1: probably one of your most slept on the rest of
Speaker 1: the president. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's come out party.
Speaker 1: That was my come out party. Bro, that was my
Speaker 1: come out party where I'm away from cold chilling. I'm
Speaker 1: doing what the funk I want right now I got
Speaker 1: I got this militant black dude that's one of throws
Speaker 1: fists up and pump the pump the issue.
Speaker 3: Let's go black and proud. Rest the president?
Speaker 1: What when you made that beat like that?
Speaker 2: To me was like, yeah, the President?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that and and intelligence was due?
Speaker 1: What sample was that?
Speaker 3: What sample is that we remade that?
Speaker 1: We remade that for game period and didn't That's just
Speaker 1: I put it on the shelf. But that was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite Marley mal Piano lines. I can't, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't reveal it.
Speaker 3: Come on, man, I could reveal it.
Speaker 1: I can't reveal it.
Speaker 3: Not even in private, not on the air.
Speaker 1: But but but you know you, I think that's when
Speaker 1: I first left, you know, I started working with Heavy
Speaker 1: and I went to uptowns. They loved me. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: did girls, they loved me. I did Overweight Loves in
Speaker 1: the house, I worked on what else weight Loves and
Speaker 1: the house girls they love me. Mister big stuff, you
Speaker 1: get what you worked on that too. I was part
Speaker 1: of it. So and then the Uptown's kicking it. So
Speaker 1: so that's when id I left the Juice. I broke out.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not fucking I'm done. I did
Speaker 1: enough that I'm gonna do. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to. I don't want to even you know.
Speaker 1: I just went over there and started working with them.
Speaker 1: So started developing heavy with the Biz and Caine and
Speaker 1: and got with Teddy Riley. Yeah. Can't out with Teddy,
Speaker 1: I know, but I get a job done with jam
Speaker 1: Like I like that. That was a good joint.
Speaker 2: He was cool.
Speaker 1: I mean it was.
Speaker 3: It was good, but it wasn't. It wasn't and it
Speaker 3: wasn't what people expected to hear from him at that point.
Speaker 1: I know, but I always considered side to its aid.
Speaker 3: As the deep voice, the dark gable and more this.
Speaker 1: You know, I wish you because that that was leading
Speaker 1: to taste of chocolate. It was just like, okay, Very
Speaker 1: White and Alison Williams. He left about.
Speaker 2: No wrong with it.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Barry White, Yeah, yeah, are you doing this to actually
Speaker 1: wait a minute, know you did the day your mind.
Speaker 3: I t J Swan.
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about we gotta talk about TJ Swan.
Speaker 3: We're and who, well.
Speaker 1: Who TJ Swan? Who is the TJ t J Swan
Speaker 1: was brought on? Because I see t J Swan. It's
Speaker 1: not there's some another artist with t J Swan that
Speaker 1: is not the singing t J Swan. Right, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a few. It's like it was a t J
Speaker 1: Swan before him. It was like another dude rhyming. Then
Speaker 1: it was a singing guy. It was. It was it
Speaker 1: was somebody that made a record before even he made.
Speaker 3: You know, I thought his record was going to come out.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: It was supposed he was.
Speaker 1: He was signed to Arista a side deal, Davis. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you something. Let me tell you to be honest.
Speaker 1: Stop stopping. There was supposed to be a t J
Speaker 1: Swan and Whitney.
Speaker 6: Do it.
Speaker 7: You?
Speaker 1: I'm not lying t J and Whitney.
Speaker 3: Yo, oh god, you.
Speaker 2: Want to know.
Speaker 1: Like the.
Speaker 3: Let me play? Let me wait?
Speaker 1: Is he still gonna let me lonely? Lord Jesus christ
Speaker 1: one is the best worst singer ever? Wait wait, I
Speaker 1: gotta find I gotta let me play.
Speaker 2: Let me lone you speech?
Speaker 1: She told me her name gave him and when I
Speaker 1: stepped and she sat a better call. It took about
Speaker 1: him up.
Speaker 3: She was finally mom.
Speaker 2: Everything was going school.
Speaker 3: We were doing fun.
Speaker 8: After a while, it wasn't a thing.
Speaker 1: We either holding hands.
Speaker 3: So she was under my wings.
Speaker 1: She wings, but in my ear, I'm the one and coolie.
Speaker 3: But she framed with another man and not me.
Speaker 1: No, Marvel's Marlin Williams, one of my idols, the reason
Speaker 1: why I even have nineteen jobs today, has.
Speaker 6: Just sold me.
Speaker 1: That TJ. Swan, the Loneius Jerome Swann was about to
Speaker 1: record with Whitney.
Speaker 3: For to be honest, it was.
Speaker 1: It was like a deal that Clive was like, your
Speaker 1: Clod was like, yo, I want TJ Swan because because
Speaker 1: TJ Swan was on all these all these street songs.
Speaker 3: You get what I'm saying, make the music with.
Speaker 1: Your mouth, piz. Nobody beats the biz, and I think
Speaker 1: they wanted some of that. They wanted some of that,
Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying, right, because they started their
Speaker 1: division in the eighty eight with Eddie Murphy's brother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1: That was relative right, So you think it was Whitney
Speaker 1: to put the knicks on it, like no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's something happened with Cold Chilling where he was going
Speaker 1: to put put out Swan and then a cole came
Speaker 1: from somebody at Cold Chilling and he didn't want to
Speaker 1: be involved with going back and forth. So he's like, yo,
Speaker 1: he's going to pass on this one. But you know,
Speaker 1: you know that's that's basically what it was. We're here
Speaker 1: with Malle mal Uh talking about the career that could
Speaker 1: have been the great t J. Swan, So we kind
Speaker 1: of joke about how on the show Unsung, like hip
Speaker 1: hop is always the villain, like for a lot of
Speaker 1: these soul bhoops.
Speaker 3: And then hip hop came and destroyed, you know, their career.
Speaker 1: But New Jack Swing is slowly coming around the corner
Speaker 1: and is sort of edging traditional hip hop as the
Speaker 1: new choice or whatever, Like, how are you adjusting it
Speaker 1: to it? Because now I'm starting to hear like at
Speaker 1: least on live on stage and some of the stuff
Speaker 1: that the bumpy basslines that that that fresh Prince baseline
Speaker 1: right right right right, So how are you adjusting to
Speaker 1: To be honest, I mean, I accept the New Jack's
Speaker 1: Swing when it came in because I really admired what
Speaker 1: Teddy was doing back then because one thing I could
Speaker 1: tell you about Teddy. He was the guy that was
Speaker 1: taking hip hop sounds and putting it to R and
Speaker 1: B and key right, And I was like, Wow, that's
Speaker 1: kind of dope. That's like different. So I started I
Speaker 1: started doing some remix like that too, kind of like
Speaker 1: you know, I've produced the feel a few songs with
Speaker 1: a little bouncy be baseline, round Away Girl and one
Speaker 1: of those little baselines. You get what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: I kind of made a few joins. It's like that too,
Speaker 1: because you believe me, I used that that Yamaha that
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 3: Going to ask, what is what is your keyboard choice?
Speaker 1: Like what is it?
Speaker 3: Back then?
Speaker 1: That was a Yamaha t Z, a small little module
Speaker 1: that the base base. Anybody was using that one just before.
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on this before we forgot, because
Speaker 1: I think like no one ever talks about these guys.
Speaker 1: The Flex. Oh yes, the Flex were the guys are
Speaker 1: singing on Darren Lighty Around the Way Girl. How do
Speaker 1: you know this?
Speaker 3: I was waiting for that album to come out after
Speaker 3: and the Flex also had do you know this? Mamas?
Speaker 1: They lecked you out on Around the Way search.
Speaker 3: Now, let me read the liner notes.
Speaker 1: But let me explain what happened to them after this, okay,
Speaker 1: who They became very very big after Around the Way girl,
Speaker 1: But you may not know you're about to drop I'm
Speaker 1: about to drop a bomb.
Speaker 3: Let me get it righty.
Speaker 1: They they produced Jehen, they produced Jahen. So all the
Speaker 1: backgrounds is one of the guys, Cliff Lighty, he does
Speaker 1: all Johann's backgrounds. Could it beat it? Every Jaen background?
Speaker 1: Cliff Lighty is doing all right. Chris his brother, his brother,
Speaker 1: that's the different set of Lighties. His brother Darren produces.
Speaker 3: In touch due to hight Wow.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: And then what else did they do?
Speaker 2: They did?
Speaker 3: They did?
Speaker 1: Like it was so many records they did.
Speaker 3: They did?
Speaker 1: What else?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: And then Eric from the group became in Black Street.
Speaker 3: Oh Eric, Wow.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to tell you. So all of them, all
Speaker 1: of them did very very well after Around Away Girl.
Speaker 3: That was kind of like an intro for them. But
Speaker 3: you know, Cliff did.
Speaker 1: Of course.
Speaker 3: I walked in the sand Mash one day.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of visitings. I walked into sam Ash
Speaker 1: one day. I was looking at a keyboard. The salesman
Speaker 1: was showing me on the keyboard, say he it does this,
Speaker 1: it does this. Boom boom, it does this. He made
Speaker 1: a beat right in frame.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that ship is hot.
Speaker 1: Give me two of those, right, I get it home.
Speaker 1: I can't do nothing. I go back to the store. Yo,
Speaker 1: my man, I can't do none of that. He's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: it's so easy. He did it.
Speaker 3: I was like, Yo, hold up, man, how much you
Speaker 3: making him?
Speaker 6: Bro?
Speaker 1: That was Darren Lighty, straight up changing people's lives. How
Speaker 1: much you're working. How much you get up here in
Speaker 1: sam mash Because I could double that, y'all. He quit
Speaker 1: that day, came up to the house, It hits, and
Speaker 1: that was it. We was good and we started and
Speaker 1: we started making on the spot, and he showed me.
Speaker 1: He became my programmer. And then into the picture now
Speaker 1: ll I was he was. I was doing my radio
Speaker 1: show and he's promoting Walking with the Panther, And you know,
Speaker 1: I knew wasn't the greatest album for him, but I
Speaker 1: still was giving them crops.
Speaker 3: I still giving them problem.
Speaker 1: Look it came out dropping them and like it was,
Speaker 1: it was joint.
Speaker 3: Jingling was on.
Speaker 1: I didn't like.
Speaker 2: I like, I didn't like.
Speaker 3: That's what got me on. I said, yo, let me
Speaker 3: remix that joint.
Speaker 1: When you said running niggas over like reading that, Trucker said,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, said okay, and then Brian vocals that was
Speaker 1: Jim Kelly's karate. Yeah, that was like, bro, you didn't
Speaker 1: like that dropping them Nitro? Uh what else? I like
Speaker 1: the joint on side to know, like squad had four
Speaker 1: good joints on that you didn't like Big four with
Speaker 1: your drums.
Speaker 3: Yes you said four right, like twenty songs on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it did you know?
Speaker 8: Okay, you know what I and it had your my
Speaker 8: heart on it in two different worlds. Now, look here's
Speaker 8: the thing. Here's the thing, all right, And that wasn't.
Speaker 1: TJ Swan walking with the panther is sentimental to me.
Speaker 1: I just graduated high school.
Speaker 3: It just came out.
Speaker 1: I was curious to figure out if LLLL was going
Speaker 1: to graduate to break beat. So the fact that dropping
Speaker 1: him used the meters joining I was like, okay, he's
Speaker 1: he's because LL is always like an indicator for what
Speaker 1: will he jumped to that next level or not, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean?
Speaker 3: And so I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was the fact that I just graduated high school,
Speaker 1: which was like it is. I like a lot of
Speaker 1: shitty music too when I was a teenager. It's okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he was, but he was definitely promoted. I like
Speaker 1: the Jingling Baby. I didn't like that.
Speaker 6: Like that remix was like, am I assuming? I'm just
Speaker 6: going to ask the one that I'm used to is
Speaker 6: the may.
Speaker 1: One in the videos?
Speaker 9: Right, he says, dance to the remixing glove Yeah, with
Speaker 9: the walking into sun side.
Speaker 3: And so you remixed it.
Speaker 1: They gave me a shot. They gave me a shot
Speaker 1: to remix that, and you know, we remixed it and
Speaker 1: it came out pretty well, did well. And then we
Speaker 1: went in the studio kind of on our own and
Speaker 1: started making an album without authorready from the station, I mean,
Speaker 1: from his label. We just started making come to the crib,
Speaker 1: let's make some joints. Boom, We like five in four
Speaker 1: and six in seven and then boom boom. Actually, you know,
Speaker 1: we bring it to Russell and he heard booming systems
Speaker 1: and that was it.
Speaker 3: Boom.
Speaker 1: You're like, yo, yo, y'all want to.
Speaker 3: Do an album, Yo, it's done already.
Speaker 1: Why'd you do two versus a booming system? Because we
Speaker 1: needed an edited version and we need one for one
Speaker 1: was for radio. I mean the in Vogue version was
Speaker 1: the version that I heard that one. Okay, I heard
Speaker 1: that first on radio, and then when I brought the remix,
Speaker 1: I heard the like they're both on the on the single.
Speaker 3: They were on a single. Yeah, both mixes were on
Speaker 3: a single, but on the album it was a different one.
Speaker 1: See Philly radio just played the in Vogue version, right,
Speaker 1: So when I brought the record, I was ready for
Speaker 1: that and I heard the baseline.
Speaker 3: I was like, wait a minute, it's changed.
Speaker 1: But I actually liked the alun version better now. But
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know, like, yes, I didn't want
Speaker 1: it to be because we came. We made Booming System.
Speaker 1: It was straight off of in Vogue. It was straight
Speaker 1: off of in Vogue.
Speaker 3: You just loot it. Yeah, I just looped it up
Speaker 3: and let them go.
Speaker 1: But then we put the record out and but the
Speaker 1: guys from in Vogue, the producers, they was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna, so you go ahead, bro, we're gonna.
Speaker 3: But was that a infuse trap? It wasn't take them.
Speaker 1: But to be honest, that's one thing I can say
Speaker 1: about them. Back in them days, they was like go ahead, bro,
Speaker 1: that's a banger. They was like, yo, you got it.
Speaker 3: I was like really.
Speaker 1: They was like they just gave it up. They saw
Speaker 1: the vision because they knew right would make their ship
Speaker 1: right even more official, right right. So they didn't even
Speaker 1: go at me. It's like your go ahead, little brother,
Speaker 1: young brother, go ahead, bro. They did me like that,
Speaker 1: and that was real good. They're like the only cast
Speaker 1: that ever did that. Boy, there's like, go ahead, little brother,
Speaker 1: do your thing.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, okay, and we're gonna fuck with
Speaker 1: you with that. Wow, just just do this remix for us.
Speaker 1: Then they hit me with the oh we want you
Speaker 1: to remix hold On?
Speaker 3: Did you Yeah?
Speaker 1: I remixed out Yeah, so that's solid. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it was like it was like a trade off.
Speaker 3: They didn't even bother me.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, so did you feel pressure because
Speaker 1: at that point I know that like Ll got booed
Speaker 1: at the Apollo and you know, it was a new
Speaker 1: generation and now his fate was in your hands. I
Speaker 1: felt no pressure with them because I already knew. I
Speaker 1: knew what I could do for l I think that
Speaker 1: everything I've done to cold Chilling with cold Chilling with
Speaker 1: Heavy to up that point got me ready to get
Speaker 1: that Grammy with L.
Speaker 3: You get what I'm saying. You know, it's kind of
Speaker 3: like I was in training.
Speaker 1: I was in training all my life, sparring and getting
Speaker 1: up to the building myself in the ranks to get
Speaker 1: with LLL and get that real shot. You get what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Because by the time we did that, you know,
Speaker 1: it was great for his career and great for my career.
Speaker 6: What is the right to now see ll be the
Speaker 6: ambassador for the Grammys Because here we are, like years later,
Speaker 6: and he is the man. He's basically the spokesperson.
Speaker 3: Of course. Believe me, I fox with him all the time.
Speaker 1: Believe me, when he do these shows, I'm calling his
Speaker 1: ass before he hit that stage, and we always talking
Speaker 1: and I'm fucking with him.
Speaker 3: We laughing like a fuck. It's my dude. I fox
Speaker 3: with him, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Before he do most of those shows, he always get
Speaker 1: a call for me, and we you know, I know
Speaker 1: they tape them early, So I catch him in the
Speaker 1: morning and fuck with him, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: And we'd be laughing our ass off, and he go
Speaker 1: over there and I tell him and the next day
Speaker 1: I called me Yo, Yo, Yeah, Thish was so and
Speaker 1: so I'm proud of you because I'm proud of that dude, man,
Speaker 1: real proud of it was the folklore of his process,
Speaker 1: real where he like had to go back to his
Speaker 1: grandmom's basement and and right and getting that mood.
Speaker 3: And yeah, he lived that much.
Speaker 1: He still had that Queen's residence where I believe he
Speaker 1: still they still own that residence there. But when we did,
Speaker 1: Mama said, knock you out. He literally came and lived
Speaker 1: at my house.
Speaker 3: He was that serious. But did he feel like I
Speaker 3: have something to prove?
Speaker 1: I'm sure he did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had a lot to prove after walking with
Speaker 3: the pant.
Speaker 1: Did he feel like a man like I still got
Speaker 1: to come with it because because it's still yielded hits
Speaker 1: like Big Ol'd but was still getting played on.
Speaker 3: I forgot that.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't joined. I think loved. I think to
Speaker 1: be honest, he knew what he wanted you get him.
Speaker 1: He wanted the respect and he knew what he wanted.
Speaker 1: He came and told me, He's like, yo, you know,
Speaker 1: he started telling me the story.
Speaker 7: Yo.
Speaker 1: When I first heard Kane, I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: When I first heard someone so I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. He's like, Yo, how could I do this?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, yo, come on, you give what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Prep gave him the prep give what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And we went in there and just tore niggas down.
Speaker 1: At least give me the story of like making that record.
Speaker 1: Did you know it was monumental or was it just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: here's another beat. I kind of felt that in a
Speaker 1: way what it is because Bobcat, you know DJ Bobcat.
Speaker 1: You know, he had he had the sample, he had this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had to kind of he had he had the
Speaker 1: he had it sampled up on a disc, and you know,
Speaker 1: he was going through sounds and he was playing that
Speaker 1: and then I just added a drum to it, kind
Speaker 1: of filtered it, flipped it and and you know, we
Speaker 1: let and then I let my you know, I let
Speaker 1: my dude. You know, sometimes what has started happening with
Speaker 1: me after awhile I started, I started not want to
Speaker 1: record people. Vocals sound familiar.
Speaker 3: I hate recording.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, sometimes, you know I started after a while,
Speaker 1: I want to make the beats, but I can't. I
Speaker 1: can't stomach sitting here doing the vocals too much.
Speaker 3: So so only someone that knows the pain. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: so so I said that day, I said to my engineer.
Speaker 1: Just record ll vocals, you know, recorded right, And I
Speaker 1: stood back and he was easily wind and then pressed
Speaker 1: play and record and but LLL didn't know what was
Speaker 1: going and he said, come on, man, and then the
Speaker 1: beat dropped, and I was like, so that was real.
Speaker 3: That wasn't getting annoyed.
Speaker 1: That was really him screaming at the engineer. Poor engineers.
Speaker 1: I was like a hip hop engineer start with, start
Speaker 1: with all the abuse that engineers have to take it
Speaker 1: the rappers and management. I had a question about, uh,
Speaker 1: to knock you out milky cereals, not milky cereal, mister
Speaker 1: good Ball, the little snippet. Nah, no, I'm saying, happened
Speaker 1: to me, happen yo, It's so funny. He's just we
Speaker 1: just decided to give it out a crazy intro. He
Speaker 1: just said that just to bug out. Yeah, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: just give it a crazy intro. And Murder Graham was
Speaker 1: just yeah, Murder Graham was his little story about.
Speaker 3: But I've been like, was it supposed to be live? Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be live.
Speaker 1: We kind of made that up to be live put
Speaker 1: the crowd in the back. But I think they tried
Speaker 1: to sue us for using the name rap Mania. Things
Speaker 1: coming out everywhere? Really, yeah, it's coming out of every everywhere.
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, really, do anybody have a copy
Speaker 1: of rap Mania? Yeah, I think they tried to sue us.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to find that. That's crazy. It was
Speaker 1: a pay per view concert where Redman went out of
Speaker 1: his mind with the on the monitor. Man. I not
Speaker 1: that this was pre this was we read. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: was like ninety You gotta do some research somebody finding
Speaker 1: rap Mania.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 9: Yeah, Okay, I remember because I remember asking my parents
Speaker 9: to get it on pay per.
Speaker 4: View and they were like no.
Speaker 1: And that's why we put Live at rat Mania on
Speaker 1: it because he was trying to act like he was
Speaker 1: on rat Mania. Okay, okay, So that cheesy rat blues
Speaker 1: was it was. It was his story talking about how
Speaker 1: they treated him after walking with the panther.
Speaker 3: Cheesy rat You ain't all that.
Speaker 1: It just hit me.
Speaker 3: He did to the Break of Dawn as well. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so that makes number five like.
Speaker 1: Handle the whole way you are?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Who else was got this? Another?
Speaker 2: He got.
Speaker 1: Hammer and yeah, yeah, or I know about Iced Tea
Speaker 1: and Ham, but I didn't know that Hammer and him
Speaker 1: had yeah situation, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was he
Speaker 1: had beef with Hammer Iced Tea and he went at
Speaker 1: all three of them onto the Break of Dawn. Did
Speaker 1: not know that break And by the time ninety one,
Speaker 1: like Mod was kind of I mean that was it
Speaker 1: was over much because New Jack was kind of like
Speaker 1: going where it was going, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And and a lot of these tracks was kind of
Speaker 1: he was on that New Jackson hard. Yeah, all New
Speaker 1: Jack track you Rise and Shine Go see the Doctor earlier.
Speaker 1: Ain't that you know what I'm saying? Okay, But he
Speaker 1: was always lyrical though, who do you think in the
Speaker 1: battle wise we think of rock on Mod l what
Speaker 1: do you think lyrically?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you like Let's Go?
Speaker 3: I like let's go. I like let's go. We we
Speaker 3: did the lant lazy so much a liter ration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I like Let's go. But lyrically I think
Speaker 1: that was like for me, like watching the L and
Speaker 1: MO d Like, I always respect the mod because he
Speaker 1: really was the only guy from like the original like
Speaker 1: original original, the results. He's the only one that survived,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I always respected him.
Speaker 1: I just think it was a time where it was
Speaker 1: a thing where it was really like you were saying
Speaker 1: earlier maw like the old line versus the new line,
Speaker 1: and to me like mo d had lyrics, but Llll
Speaker 1: could take your shirt off and nigga, it didn't matter
Speaker 1: no more, you know what I'm saying. So it was
Speaker 1: like it was just kind of he was I think
Speaker 1: he was as a lyricist, mod was dope, but he
Speaker 1: was just kind of his time had passed at that point.
Speaker 1: I think of the two LL responses, I mean, to
Speaker 1: the Break of Dawn was my favorite. But again I'm
Speaker 1: a music guy, so no, I'm with you. I like
Speaker 1: to the Break because cool. It was like it was
Speaker 1: like it was either cool al or like Holland jet
Speaker 1: so and always like just the cool. How did you
Speaker 1: get cool l delivery on that song instead of his
Speaker 1: house I had?
Speaker 3: I told him, And we can't scream no more. Basically,
Speaker 3: we can't.
Speaker 1: We can't be we can't be angry on records because
Speaker 1: you gotta take a different approach. You gotta, you gotta
Speaker 1: instead of screaming at him, you gotta talk to him,
Speaker 1: and that's what we did, kind of like with Jingling, right,
Speaker 1: that's when I told him.
Speaker 3: I like, yo, we can't.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be super aggressive, right, he wanted to
Speaker 1: do his vocals over the other way, kind of like
Speaker 1: the first ones. I was like, no, no, no, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna We're not gonna really do that at this time.
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's like, you know.
Speaker 9: It's actually interesting, you said, because I first heard the
Speaker 9: biggest change in the L's voice the first time I
Speaker 9: heard booming system.
Speaker 1: It sounded like a completely I didn't even know it
Speaker 1: was I didn't know it was them.
Speaker 3: It just came on. I was like, who the fuck
Speaker 3: is this?
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, there was a lot of effects on
Speaker 1: the voice too.
Speaker 3: So let me ask.
Speaker 1: Because there's always the end to the yang, let's jump
Speaker 1: three years later, fourteen shots of the Dome. Okay, no, god.
Speaker 3: No, because it was all.
Speaker 1: Like I remember that being the first review in the
Speaker 1: source that had consequences to it, and Russell was not
Speaker 1: having that. And you know, the original mind Squad review
Speaker 1: like the first time that their record review could influence
Speaker 1: their reader and it causing a response or maybe a
Speaker 1: retaliation or not for someone in hip hop. Was that
Speaker 1: Walking with the Panther record. So what was different about
Speaker 1: the process of fourteen Shots in the Doom? Then Mama
Speaker 1: said knock you out because big, big, big difference.
Speaker 3: It should have been.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be the follow up to should have
Speaker 1: been Victory Last, Right, But guess what. Guess who started
Speaker 1: acting around that time. Guess Michael J No, No, guess
Speaker 1: who went to go do the Toy in the middle
Speaker 1: of my project? Yeah?
Speaker 3: The Toys was uh Robin Willis.
Speaker 1: Right, right, So that's kind of what happened with that project.
Speaker 1: In the middle of the project, we in the zone,
Speaker 1: was in the zone. Next thing, you know, we all
Speaker 1: gotta go wait for nine months to go do a movie.
Speaker 1: I'm like, dukes, We're in the.
Speaker 3: Middle of an album.
Speaker 4: M mm.
Speaker 1: So how long did Mama said knock you out? Take
Speaker 1: to record the album? Like two weeks or some ship
Speaker 1: and then wait, fourteen shots. It was like real quick,
Speaker 1: he just knocked it out. Yeah. We was banging the
Speaker 1: down like knock it out. Yeah, we've been banging them
Speaker 1: down like nothing.
Speaker 3: I told you.
Speaker 1: He came and lived lived up the crib upstate. So
Speaker 1: we was making maybe two records a day, and then
Speaker 1: fourteen shots was how long? Fourteen shots took about a
Speaker 1: year and some change to make. Because fourteen shots took
Speaker 1: fourteen months, it's too long because now you know, now
Speaker 1: you know he's coming like a week for like a
Speaker 1: record or two. I'm like, dudes, we can't, we can't
Speaker 1: make records like this, bro we we wasn't the same formula.
Speaker 1: So you feel that the disrupted rhythm. Yeah, of not
Speaker 1: bouncing off each other one hundred percent, that's exactly what
Speaker 1: they God, now you're scaring me.
Speaker 3: Stop looking at me like that serious, because he do wan.
Speaker 1: He started, you know, making movies and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, we wasn't in the studio as much.
Speaker 3: We wasn't vibing like that.
Speaker 1: Every wait, everyone listened. Everyone's looking at me like, all right,
Speaker 1: mister nineteen jobs, you better.
Speaker 3: Dropped everything this next week hearing this story.
Speaker 1: But what it was though, you know, it's like he
Speaker 1: started focusing and you know, he did good on that
Speaker 1: movie and then all of a sudden, you know, that's
Speaker 1: when that's when the movie starts. You know, the movie
Speaker 1: started coming in and the TV and all of that,
Speaker 1: and you know, the album didn't really do well like
Speaker 1: it should have because we I didn't have no real
Speaker 1: time to do it.
Speaker 3: I ain't have no time.
Speaker 1: And then if I made something six months ago, this
Speaker 1: ship ain't hot. Now you get what I'm saying. When
Speaker 1: we when we made the other album, that ship was
Speaker 1: so hot off the press, Yo, the fucking reels were
Speaker 1: still warm. You get what I'm saying. Did you do Crossroads?
Speaker 1: I was involved with it? I was I was involved.
Speaker 1: I was involved with Yeah, they made him make that.
Speaker 3: Wait was his dad in the picture right now?
Speaker 4: Or ah?
Speaker 3: Because like the hollering came back, the screaming, you know
Speaker 3: what I say.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: As I'm trying to say, all the screaming came back well.
Speaker 1: Because he probably felt especially after the heat of doing
Speaker 1: it on MTV unplug You remember the years that and
Speaker 1: he did it at the MTV Awards were like a
Speaker 1: ninety piece band at the MT Yeah hit me twelve times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was right.
Speaker 3: You probably couldn't tell him nothing.
Speaker 1: He was back.
Speaker 3: Ah man, he telling me that he had to.
Speaker 1: If he had more focus and did it in a
Speaker 1: concise time period of maybe a month or so, it
Speaker 1: would have been a different.
Speaker 3: I believe if there was no Toy movie. That was
Speaker 3: a weird.
Speaker 7: And then when I saw that was dudes, that was
Speaker 7: a weird fucking we did we did this for that.
Speaker 7: We blew an album for that.
Speaker 1: Ye, because the movie didn't do well, Wait, let's not
Speaker 1: totally tank it, because I mean back was a classic
Speaker 1: back and Pink Cookies that remix. Though the the movie
Speaker 1: yes crazy like they were, yes, they were. There was
Speaker 1: there was little there was. There was moments on there,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't enough moments was like stand man stand.
Speaker 1: So after that, like was the feeling the aftermath of well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's when I think the track masters took
Speaker 1: over and then probably took all my beat loops and
Speaker 1: made everybody beats and you know, did what they did.
Speaker 1: But no, I mean you still have Lords. You still
Speaker 1: oh yeah, Lord? Yeah. I moved on them with Lords.
Speaker 1: And that's when Lords started popping. Funky child Lords of
Speaker 1: the Underground And how did you meet them? Because they're straight,
Speaker 1: they're Jersey. Well, I had I had an idea of
Speaker 1: a group called Lords of the Underground. I had the name,
Speaker 1: but I was looking for somebody who would be Lords
Speaker 1: of the Underground. And I saw them performing. They used
Speaker 1: to be a group called New Jersey Funk. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a better name, Lords under That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So so when I saw them performed, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the Lords of the Underground. So I was like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm looking to do a group called Lords of the Underground,
Speaker 1: and would you all like to be him? And they're
Speaker 1: like yeah, because they had the energy and everything, and
Speaker 1: you know, and we made a little history with them.
Speaker 3: They did really well.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean well Psycho was that when Psycho
Speaker 1: came out, that was the ninety three beat, the freestyle
Speaker 1: over wow and and Philly Wow. I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: You know, the funny thing about putting out these records, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the funny thing about dropping all of these records. Reasonally,
Speaker 1: I don't know how well they do. Like you said,
Speaker 1: that was an excellent rhyme and beat and the yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what every cat in Philly wanted. The freestyle wow,
Speaker 1: piece of Philly right right there. That's real talk man. Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I felt like you were because that was
Speaker 3: you really.
Speaker 1: Not even graduating, but again updating your sound to modern
Speaker 1: hip hop. There you go. And I felt like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: Marley's on a mission to really like not revenge, but
Speaker 1: like to let y'all know, like I'm still in this.
Speaker 2: Mom and.
Speaker 7: It is hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard for people to last that long and still
Speaker 1: remain ahead of the curve with that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, no doubt. I think with Psycho, I wanted
Speaker 1: to take it there. I definitely want to take it
Speaker 1: there because I felt there was a new group I
Speaker 1: want to come with, like a whole new sound and
Speaker 1: a whole new look for it. And you know, Psycho
Speaker 1: did what it did, and then you know we had
Speaker 1: to bust him in the head with Chief Rocker and
Speaker 1: all that other ship. Yes, he's the k Death. Where
Speaker 1: are they now, I'm lords they performing? Does one of
Speaker 1: them live in Paris? Oh yeah, the DJ lives in Paris,
Speaker 1: do it all? You know, he's running Jersey and Funky.
Speaker 1: He's in North Carolina. And you know they still to
Speaker 1: all over the world. They still every summer they going
Speaker 1: to those festivals.
Speaker 3: They rocking.
Speaker 1: They never stopped yet, that's all. Like I said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're still going. Just to make sure, all right, we're
Speaker 1: about to wrap up the show, because you know, you
Speaker 1: probably have a nine hour story. But I always wanted
Speaker 1: to know the deal with on the reil with not Nice?
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? Like, was that initially supposed
Speaker 1: to be on Allmatic or yeah it was. It was
Speaker 1: originally supposed to be on it. And when he was
Speaker 1: making his album, he you know, just after he did
Speaker 1: a few singles and he was working on his album
Speaker 1: and Biggie was out, and you know, he had a concern.
Speaker 1: He came to visit me. I was surprised. One day
Speaker 1: Nozzle was at my door up state. Oh shit, no,
Speaker 1: I just here, what up? Baby? Were talking and we talked, say, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm ready to work on my thing, you know, making
Speaker 1: my album. He said, Yo, he said, you think people
Speaker 1: still gonna like me? I was like, this is for
Speaker 1: the second album.
Speaker 3: This is like that album. This is one.
Speaker 1: He was working on the album because he had the
Speaker 1: singles out first and the barbecue, you know, the barbecue
Speaker 1: was out, so he was he was hot. But then
Speaker 1: Biggie came. You get what I'm saying, And he came like, Yo,
Speaker 1: you think you think they're gonna still love me? I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: you the nigga that said fucking you. You know, he
Speaker 1: went to Jeff of snuffing Jesus, nigga, nobody's gonna ever
Speaker 1: forget that. I said, matter of fact, let me throw
Speaker 1: let me show you something, let me throw you on something.
Speaker 1: So I threw up on the real beat, and his
Speaker 1: man and everybody and is like, oh.
Speaker 3: Shit, it's aunt adventage though, like, how how long have
Speaker 3: you had that on?
Speaker 4: That was?
Speaker 3: I had that.
Speaker 1: I kind of like held that out for him because
Speaker 1: I already knew that nads were murder this ship. Certain
Speaker 1: beats I just hold out for certain artists. I could
Speaker 1: just hear like, I just gotta I gotta beat with
Speaker 1: Action brons, and you know, I had to beat that
Speaker 1: I know that would fit action. One day I met him, Yo,
Speaker 1: I got something for you, threw it on him and
Speaker 1: we got a joint. But you know, sometimes sometimes I
Speaker 1: just hold out a beat for something. I feel that
Speaker 1: to go to an artist. So I put him on
Speaker 1: on the reel and and he loved it.
Speaker 3: He did.
Speaker 1: People will in verse on it, and his people kept
Speaker 1: telling him, yo, that's the ship.
Speaker 2: That's the ship.
Speaker 3: Yo, Yo, God, that's the ship.
Speaker 1: So time went by, the album was almost finished. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I guess he ain't gonna use this ship, damn you
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So I was like, fuck it.
Speaker 1: His album came out, he didn't use it, so I
Speaker 1: fucked around and put Cormega on it and Screwball. You
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying. So it's like a QB song.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't trying to put it. I was just
Speaker 1: making a song just to you know, just have a
Speaker 1: tape around the hood fucking celebration with all. There was
Speaker 1: never no tape with Mega Damn and Screwball on it.
Speaker 1: And then I think he heard it, and then when
Speaker 1: he's like, then he really didn't want to use it.
Speaker 3: But then when he did the.
Speaker 1: Anniversary ten years later for Ill madd, He's like, yo,
Speaker 1: that was supposed to be on the joint. Let me
Speaker 1: put it on a ten year anniversary version.
Speaker 3: So that's why he went.
Speaker 1: Back in, did his vocals back over, and then used
Speaker 1: it as his record. But it was originally supposed to
Speaker 1: be on the first album, I see. So that's why
Speaker 1: he put it on the tenth anniversary as a bonus
Speaker 1: because it was supposed to be there. So all the
Speaker 1: projects that you've done in your career, and you've never
Speaker 1: never stopped making music, like you made the collaboration record
Speaker 1: with Kris One. Finally and all like, what is your
Speaker 1: what is your proudest moment as a creator. My proudest
Speaker 1: moment as a creator is watching TV watching myself win
Speaker 1: a Grammy when they, you know, they mentioned our song
Speaker 1: and they mentioned the artists and who produced it. I
Speaker 1: saw it on TV. I didn't even go because I
Speaker 1: didn't even think we was gonna win what and you know,
Speaker 1: and plus because they wasn't they wasn't presenting our award.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, so they say and tonight, so and so
Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So they put us in that. And when I heard that,
Speaker 3: I was like wow.
Speaker 1: I was home. I was like wow. People started calling
Speaker 1: me yo, you gotta grammy. I was like, oh, ship.
Speaker 1: So that was like one of my proudest moments. It's
Speaker 1: like it all boiled down to that. Where do you
Speaker 1: keep your grammy in the studio? Okay, keep its doorstopping,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, whatever?
Speaker 3: In the bathroom toilet paper holder?
Speaker 1: Greatest place to put your grammy? Man, Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 5: Where Bill was in a shelf at my house, in
Speaker 5: the toilet, in the toilet, okay, next to some other ship.
Speaker 2: Dog.
Speaker 1: I've learned so much about I'm mind blowing, like how
Speaker 1: much I'm still working through the whole sho. Wow.
Speaker 5: I'm never using real high hats again, that's I tell you, man,
Speaker 5: I'm just talking.
Speaker 1: Because we're so you know, we so we're just using
Speaker 1: anything we could, you could, how to funk the mic,
Speaker 1: you know, some stuff that didn't work as you say this,
Speaker 1: all right? You remember the group Switch used to be
Speaker 1: on motel if you can, if you can listen to
Speaker 1: their second album, switch To they had a single called
Speaker 1: the Best Beat in Town. Now that I think of it,
Speaker 1: the high hat on that was them, the Beatles too,
Speaker 1: for what's it's some ship like you can hear them.
Speaker 1: I have to say, Okay, I'm not making that up.
Speaker 1: That's true. No, No, I'm gonna go home. Listen REVOLVERSNA
Speaker 1: beat your ass. So that's fine. Well Marley, uh well, no,
Speaker 1: we gotta do a reflection, Yes, reflections.
Speaker 3: Where do we start? Font Tikolo?
Speaker 2: Man? What have I learned?
Speaker 3: What do we learn today?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: I think I learned, you know, just so much? It
Speaker 1: uh really for me, just hearing Marty's story, it just
Speaker 1: reinforced for me to just kind of stay on the
Speaker 1: path on that I'm on so much of our early records,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying with little brother, and you know,
Speaker 1: they were just done on really primitive equipment, and you know,
Speaker 1: even to the point that when you know, after you know,
Speaker 1: you get some bread or whatever and you can build
Speaker 1: your own studio. My studio now is still pretty basic,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of gadgets, and it's still pretty much a small space.
Speaker 1: So just hear that all these classic records that I
Speaker 1: grew up listening to were essentially made just you know,
Speaker 1: in some in his kitchen or at his crib. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's it just shows to me. I think, just you know,
Speaker 1: it ain't really about what you got. It's not about
Speaker 1: the gear. It's about the person that's using it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And just to hear the story
Speaker 1: of how you triggered samples before there was an SP
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember trying to work in SP by
Speaker 1: my you know when it actually came out and I
Speaker 1: was like, what in the hell. So just to even
Speaker 1: be doing it back then, it's really amazing. But but nah, man,
Speaker 1: this is his his career for me is a big
Speaker 1: inspiration and you know, this is my first time seeing
Speaker 1: Bally since ship oh three.
Speaker 3: Like future Flavors.
Speaker 1: Well, we came up me Pete Rock, uh little brother
Speaker 1: the ninth Pool. We all came up there and uh
Speaker 1: we did it at his crib, Sugar.
Speaker 3: Steve, what did you learn?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 10: Infinite stuff tonight? As an engineer, it's very interesting to
Speaker 10: hear the early days of sampling and all the use
Speaker 10: what you got, the type of technology that I started
Speaker 10: out doing too on a double cassette deck, not a
Speaker 10: four track.
Speaker 1: But and then all this stuff about.
Speaker 10: About how you were creating those songs that became classics
Speaker 10: for it just for your for your radio show, and
Speaker 10: making that connection between you know, the old school DJs
Speaker 10: advancing things into the DJs making their own their own beats,
Speaker 10: you know, and you know that's it's a big connection
Speaker 10: to make, you know, to understand how hip hop started.
Speaker 3: Yes, lessons a bell Boss Bill, it's the high hats Man.
Speaker 9: It's the most mind blowing thing because one that's one
Speaker 9: of my favorite beats ever and it's mostly because of
Speaker 9: those high hats. So just to find out that your
Speaker 9: mouth is the source of those high hats, it's kind
Speaker 9: of fucked my head up.
Speaker 3: So that yeah, that's a major takeaway from me. I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: I wish I had something more substantial.
Speaker 1: But that dude that blew he dropped many bombed to night,
Speaker 1: blew my mind, unpaid Bill.
Speaker 5: The visionaries and icons that come on the show all
Speaker 5: come from these places where they people that live around
Speaker 5: them are in the next apartment or whatever, are are
Speaker 5: integral parts of their visionary peaty right, which is amazing.
Speaker 5: And so like with with Marley, it's like Queen's Bridge
Speaker 5: and all the people in the thing, And like with
Speaker 5: Ray Parker was Detroit, right and all the people out
Speaker 5: of Detroit, And both of you did the same thing
Speaker 5: is when we asked you a question that we didn't
Speaker 5: know the answer to, like did you do this? Both
Speaker 5: of you said, of course I did. Like where, Like
Speaker 5: that's the dumbest fucking question. And I love that, man,
Speaker 5: shut up, which is how I feel on the show
Speaker 5: just about every day.
Speaker 1: It's a lesson for all.
Speaker 3: No, I'm joking, but yes, I love that part of it.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 6: I knew you were a legend before we had to
Speaker 6: sit down, However, I did not know you were a
Speaker 6: national treasure. And I feel like the rest of the world.
Speaker 6: It just needs to be acknowledged. And I really hope
Speaker 6: that you know, you and the mere continue this conversation
Speaker 6: with the Smithsonian, because I don't feel like there should
Speaker 6: be a Smithsonian with the history of our culture, includes
Speaker 6: of hip hop, and you not be there yet.
Speaker 3: We need to get that board back.
Speaker 6: We don't even need whatever whatever you got God, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: that's what I just I just learned it, like you
Speaker 6: need to be. It needs to be a foreword by
Speaker 6: Marley on every like hip hop blog that MC's or
Speaker 6: DJs think that it's their bible.
Speaker 1: Like Marley, I really appreciate the fact that you had
Speaker 1: so much experience in this business and you remembered a
Speaker 1: lot of detail, because that's that's kind of one of
Speaker 1: the hardest things about a show of this caliber, where
Speaker 1: you know, details become real shaky, and you know, people
Speaker 1: don't remember things, and you know, I feel it's like
Speaker 1: really important to document the stories and keep the tradition
Speaker 1: and the history going. I'm mind blown by so many things,
Speaker 1: but let me, I feel very validated with the it's
Speaker 1: all about the guitar pedals. I just did an instagram.
Speaker 1: Think about that, right that you're putting the drums. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm and I'm going back to now. You can't tell
Speaker 1: me nothing, It's all about guitar, guitar pedals. Well, I
Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time, Marley Man, give
Speaker 1: it up, Ladies, and Jail.
Speaker 2: West.
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was
Speaker 1: produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.