Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Now, let's talk a
Speaker 1: bit more than about the Prime Minister Kirstarmer. He used
Speaker 1: a galitzy London investment summit to proclaim growth and wealth
Speaker 1: creation the cornerstones of his government. He pledged to rip
Speaker 1: out the bureaucracy that blocks investment and make the country's
Speaker 1: regulatory regime fit for the modern age. He also rejected
Speaker 1: suggestions that he could raise capital gains taxes high as
Speaker 1: thirty nine percent when he was speaking to Bloomberg yesterday. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm pleased to say that joining us for a discussion
Speaker 1: around this is Ed Bussey, who is CEO of Oxford
Speaker 1: Science Enterprises, which is an independent investment company but focused
Speaker 1: on building out companies that emerge from Oxford University. Ed,
Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2: Good Morning's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're also meeting with the Chancellor. You're involved in
Speaker 1: in the startup and build up a program here in
Speaker 1: the UK for business is How successful do you think
Speaker 1: the investment summit was yesterday? What do you think of
Speaker 1: the event overall?
Speaker 2: Well, it sends a very important signal out to the
Speaker 2: to the global market. That the UK is open for business,
Speaker 2: so I think that has to be applauded. And clearly
Speaker 2: we had some sort of big, big name investors attending,
Speaker 2: and you know, I think it signaling is important. We
Speaker 2: know we do need to reset the narrative. We we
Speaker 2: need some more positivity and we and I know I
Speaker 2: wasn't at the summit personally, but looking at the coverage,
Speaker 2: including the great coverage from Bloomberg, I should say I think,
Speaker 2: you know, it feels like that the government is genuinely
Speaker 2: intending to really drive the growth agenda. I think there's
Speaker 2: some sincerity behind that and is trying to be more
Speaker 2: ambitious around that era, which you know is very welcome.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good, but surely action and delivery are the
Speaker 1: thing that is required. I mean, the diagnosis of the
Speaker 1: issue in terms of trying to improve the business environment,
Speaker 1: and that's well understood. They have to deliver, don't they.
Speaker 2: Absolutely what really matters now and yesterday is great, but
Speaker 2: what really matters is what we all do now off
Speaker 2: the back of it, because this needs action and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2: We had some amazing headlines yesterday, some really big investment
Speaker 2: numbers which are sort of great which is great news,
Speaker 2: but this needs to flow through into tangible action that
Speaker 2: makes a real difference for those of us who are
Speaker 2: trying to build companies from the ground up in the UK.
Speaker 2: And there are some significant challenges and I'm not suggesting
Speaker 2: the government isn't aware of the challenges, but what really
Speaker 2: matters is the resolution of some of the significant problems
Speaker 2: that the sector faces.
Speaker 3: And you know, I've just noted that there has been,
Speaker 3: I guess a challenge to retain talent here in the UK.
Speaker 3: Is there something tangible that the government can do to
Speaker 3: help retain this talent? A lot of you know, recent graduates,
Speaker 3: even these Nobel Prize winners ers, they were all born
Speaker 3: and educated here in the UK. But since left is
Speaker 3: there something tangible you're looking for for the government to
Speaker 3: address that?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's a few really important dimensions to your question.
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, if you look at the
Speaker 2: founding entrepreneur ecosystem that we have here in the UK,
Speaker 2: it's global. I think the latest numbers of forty to
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the founders of our fast growth companies
Speaker 2: come from outside the UK. So it's not just academics
Speaker 2: and universities, it's the founders of our business, but also
Speaker 2: the early stage investment community. It's entirely global, it's international,
Speaker 2: it's from all over the world, and we do have
Speaker 2: a problem attracting that talent across all those areas into
Speaker 2: the UK. And I noted yesterday there was some comments
Speaker 2: around well there hadn't been that many references to the
Speaker 2: word tax. Now, if you're a large corporate based outside
Speaker 2: the UK, that sort of one scenario and you might
Speaker 2: hear that message. But if you're a founder or an
Speaker 2: academic looking to set up a business, or an investor
Speaker 2: and or a family office, the really critical layer of
Speaker 2: the ecosystem which we need, that of which we need thousands,
Speaker 2: those people do really care about taxes, their personal taxes,
Speaker 2: capital gains taxes, inherit taxes. So for those people who
Speaker 2: would be directly affected. Now, when we talk about working people,
Speaker 2: this includes that group, the hard working entrepreneurs that are
Speaker 2: trying to build companies and we need to bring them
Speaker 2: from outside the UK because the are not enough here
Speaker 2: in the UK to build the sort of scale of
Speaker 2: growth that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you really sure then that Stephanie Flanders whence
Speaker 1: she was speaking to Kirstamy yesterday managed to get you
Speaker 1: an avowal that actually thirty nine percent was a bit
Speaker 1: off the mark in terms of capital gains tax increases.
Speaker 1: Do you think that all the people that you are
Speaker 1: speaking to are leaving because of the concerns around higher
Speaker 1: taxation personal and business?
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I can't talk about this quantitatively. I
Speaker 2: do know anecdotally a number of investors and entrepreneurs who
Speaker 2: have already decided to build their business outside the UK
Speaker 2: just because they're concerned around the direction of travel that
Speaker 2: has been signaled from a taxation perspective. Because we're again
Speaker 2: we're this group is entirely mobile. Yeah, it's global, it's mobile.
Speaker 2: They can set their business up in Zurich, or in
Speaker 2: Barcelona or elsewhere. And we need to remember that there
Speaker 2: are absolutely there are some financial challenges for the UK
Speaker 2: which will it sounds like it's going to need some
Speaker 2: sort of tax increase, but we're competing in a global
Speaker 2: marketplace for talent and tax is an important part. Is
Speaker 2: not the only part, but it's an important consideration for
Speaker 2: people where they think about locating themselves.
Speaker 1: So is kiss our Kissam and Rachel V's pro entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: I think so that's what I'm That's what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2: But it comes back to your earlier question. This needs
Speaker 2: to translate into action. What are we actually going to do?
Speaker 2: Because if on one hand, we have you know, sixty
Speaker 2: eight billion of investment sort of booked as of yesterday,
Speaker 2: but we then tax this layer of the economy to
Speaker 2: the point where basically they don't know the opportunity cost
Speaker 2: of people not coming here but also the existing people
Speaker 2: here thinking of relocating, then we've just shot ourselves in
Speaker 2: the foot. So that's it's going to come back to
Speaker 2: what do we actually do off the back of this?
Speaker 2: And so all I is focused on the thirtieth of
Speaker 2: October in this respect, but there are are there other
Speaker 2: parts of this. You know, the government has an important
Speaker 2: role to raise money and help raise money with us
Speaker 2: across the whole ecosystem. Procurement is another area where we
Speaker 2: need real attention government procurement that is, talent is another,
Speaker 2: and then we need joined up strategies around these high
Speaker 2: value areas. It was great to see the announcements around
Speaker 2: AI and and climate yesterday, but we need to be
Speaker 2: focusing on quantum and the other sort of critical areas
Speaker 2: where the UK has got a global edge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess attracting investment money and having the
Speaker 3: startups here, Yes, that's all well and good, but what
Speaker 3: about the IPO landscape when it comes to here in London.
Speaker 3: It's been you know, dire for the London market in
Speaker 3: terms of IPO's barely four billion just in the last
Speaker 3: three years. Is that were you and do you see
Speaker 3: any action that the new government could take to help
Speaker 3: foster that environment?
Speaker 2: Well, I know talking to the likes of Julia Hoggett
Speaker 2: that there is a real there is a real concern
Speaker 2: and a real push to try to address that. It's
Speaker 2: going to take time, a lot of these things, mansion house,
Speaker 2: it's going to take time. So I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of good intention and goodwill and a lot of
Speaker 2: good work going to try to resolve it. But you're
Speaker 2: absolutely right, this is a problem. If we look at
Speaker 2: our portfolio, we have one hundred and twenty companies in
Speaker 2: the portfolio. We're building ten new spin outs a year.
Speaker 2: We have a number of unicorns in the making. And
Speaker 2: the sad fact is, if you look at it from
Speaker 2: a uk PLC point of view, those companies that are
Speaker 2: thinking about an IPO or or talking about and not
Speaker 2: one of them is looking at the UK. Now with
Speaker 2: my UK hat on, that's a bit of a travesty,
Speaker 2: isn't it, Because we then get accused of building great
Speaker 2: cat companies and then catapulting them out of the country. Now,
Speaker 2: our shareholders who from around the world might say, well,
Speaker 2: actually Nasdak's the right place maybe to list and so
Speaker 2: you know, that's a logical economic argument, and I mean
Speaker 2: you can't dispute that. But I think we'd say, with
Speaker 2: my UK hat on, we have got a problem there
Speaker 2: we need to fix because ideally we'd keep these companies here.
Speaker 2: If the UK is going to build its first trillion
Speaker 2: pound company, in my view, it's going to come out
Speaker 2: of the deep tech ecosystem of one of our universities. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's where it's going to happen. And for the value
Speaker 2: of that company to then trickle down to cascade down
Speaker 2: in the UK and create the next generation of entrepreneurs
Speaker 2: and capital flow. We need those, We need these listings
Speaker 2: and exits to be happening here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And everybody, the government downwards talk about the importance
Speaker 1: of the capital and the kind of the brain stoffs
Speaker 1: that we have in our top universities, including at Oxford,
Speaker 1: which is so important, and yet only earlier this year
Speaker 1: I was doing special reporting and long podcast about the
Speaker 1: dire need to fund universities a little bit better and
Speaker 1: the fact that the nine thousand and something cap on
Speaker 1: university fees is going to have to go up. That
Speaker 1: would seem to be the drive funding university so that
Speaker 1: people come here, and the visa requirements so that you
Speaker 1: can come here and build that business. Is the government
Speaker 1: doing anything on that, never mind skills and so on.
Speaker 2: Well, so you've hit on a really I mean, this
Speaker 2: is why I'm so energized about what I'm doing is
Speaker 2: and it can equally be frustrating because one of the
Speaker 2: areas where the UK has a massive competitive edge is
Speaker 2: around our universities. Four of the top ten universities in
Speaker 2: the world are UK universities, twenty eight of the top
Speaker 2: hundred are UK universities. I mean, we are where punching
Speaker 2: way above our weight and so funding our universities properly
Speaker 2: and then supporting the commercialization of the world class research
Speaker 2: that comes out of them is absolutely critical to the
Speaker 2: government's agenda on growth, productivity and creating a superpower.
Speaker 1: One last thought then are you disappointed that the amount
Speaker 1: of money being invested into the National Wealth Fund has
Speaker 1: been cut by what about a fifth? Twenty seven point
Speaker 1: eight billion pounds will be allowed to be deployed for
Speaker 1: the National Wealth Fund, which is one of the sources
Speaker 1: of crowding in public private money together.
Speaker 2: I think it's still a large amount of money. What
Speaker 2: I'm focused on is where is that money going to
Speaker 2: be allocated? And also that's why the Mansion House Compact
Speaker 2: is so important. You know, that's the forty to fifty
Speaker 2: billion that if we can drive that through on an
Speaker 2: accelerated basis, we haven't got time a lot of time here,
Speaker 2: then I think that's what's going to make a real difference.