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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting into This and

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Speaker 1: today I'm sitting down with Kyle and Stephen Bradshaw, the

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Speaker 1: inventors of what I honestly believe is one of the

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Speaker 1: most innovative ELK calling tools in recent years.

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Speaker 2: In the KIVN Beagle Tube.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it yet, this is the first,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, truly collapsible but still full sized Beegle

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Speaker 1: tube compresses down to about the size of an al

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Speaker 1: gene bottle, making it a dream for all of us

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Speaker 1: that are minimalist ELK hunters or guys just running and

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Speaker 1: gunning in the in the rough country. And as a

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Speaker 1: call designer myself, I'm always looking for great ideas, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes that means recognizing when somebody else has maybe one

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Speaker 1: nailed down or one a little better than I've come

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Speaker 1: up with. And I'm also a user of all this gear,

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Speaker 1: right so I look at it and try to figure

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Speaker 1: out how it worked with what we've got going on,

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Speaker 1: and I knew right away it was special. And it

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Speaker 1: takes a little humility to admit that, you know, as

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Speaker 1: a call designer, you know Dirk brought this idea to

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Speaker 1: me on the heels of the twenty twenty four Western

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Speaker 1: Hunt and so today we're going to talk about where

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Speaker 1: this idea came from, the struggles with it, how to

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Speaker 1: get it mass produced, how we came in contact with

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Speaker 1: these guys, and uh, you know this tube launch three

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Speaker 1: days ago, and kind of what it took to get

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Speaker 1: it from where they took it and to where we

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Speaker 1: got it.

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Speaker 2: So welcome to the show, Kyle and Stephen.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Jason for having Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, no, go ahead, Yeah, no, We're we're very excited.

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Speaker 3: And I like that at the end there, how you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: you know, where it first started to where we've taken

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Speaker 3: it today and attributing to all of your success, Like,

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Speaker 3: it is so great to have the Phelps brand back

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Speaker 3: us on this product. And apart from you know, everything

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Speaker 3: else that we've been working on, this was like our

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Speaker 3: staple product that we wanted Hunters to use and we

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Speaker 3: knew that working with you this thing was going to

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Speaker 3: make it all the way way. So we're really excited

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Speaker 3: about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, to be completely transparent, you know, there

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Speaker 1: were there were a few people starting to use it

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Speaker 1: and I had caught win you know, anything that's new

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Speaker 1: in the honting industry. You start to get pictures and

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Speaker 1: what and I'm like, I'm gonna root against these guys.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna root against some hard right, Like I don't

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Speaker 1: want It's a good idea, but I hope it doesn't

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Speaker 1: get any legs. And you know, and a little back history,

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Speaker 1: you know, you see things are three D printed.

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Speaker 2: You're like, well, that's not sustainable or not profitable.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: You're like, you're like, you're trying to come up with

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Speaker 1: all these ideas on why this thing's not going to

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Speaker 1: take off. And at the same time, I'm scared to

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Speaker 1: death that somebody maybe have a better idea, you know,

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Speaker 1: has a better idea than I do.

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Speaker 3: That's funny. And you know when people say that, they'll say,

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Speaker 3: it's just three D printed. And I've always hated that

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Speaker 3: term because, as you know, a new designer, when you're prototyping,

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Speaker 3: that's it's just the most feasonable way to go. And

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Speaker 3: we didn't have the means to you know, injection mold

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Speaker 3: or manufacture it any other way. So we were just

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Speaker 3: three D printing. And that was something that when we

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Speaker 3: started talking with you, We're like, Okay, this guy knows

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Speaker 3: how to create product.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, three D printing is not easy.

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Speaker 5: It's a you could dive into it, and it is

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Speaker 5: a lot to it.

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Speaker 1: So whatever, yeah, yeah, no, And that's not a dig

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Speaker 1: like we do tons of three D printing. I've just

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Speaker 1: always felt and we've learned through this, like you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't we're not going to talk numbers here anything,

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Speaker 1: but you see like where the margins start to come from,

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Speaker 1: and how you can like peel this thing back to

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Speaker 1: a point where it can be a high production profitable

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Speaker 1: because I would be lying to say that ninety nine

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Speaker 1: percent of what I produce here doesn't come into three

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Speaker 1: D print in some form or fashion. You know, anything

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Speaker 1: we've did in silicone. You know, they can print three

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Speaker 1: D silicon, and they can three D print titanium. They

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Speaker 1: can three D print all of these things now. And

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Speaker 1: so that wasn't a dig at you guys. It was

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Speaker 1: the idea that if it's going to always be production

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Speaker 1: three D printed, it's going to be rough because I

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Speaker 1: you know, having three D printers in the past and

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Speaker 1: and ordering stuff from them just you know, time on

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Speaker 1: the machines and unless you're a mass mass produced So

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Speaker 1: now that that was just more of a joke and

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Speaker 1: this as Dirt came home from that Western hunt and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: these guys are pretty good guys.

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Speaker 2: It's got good back pressure, it's got good.

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Speaker 1: Sound, and I'm like, all right now, now this, you know,

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Speaker 1: the relationship kind of changes one ady from rooting against

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Speaker 1: You're like, hey, let's see if we can get this

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Speaker 1: thing to work together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's fun. And you know, kind of a

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Speaker 3: backstory on that. We'd worked on it for two years

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Speaker 3: before we'd let anyone see it, and that was just

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Speaker 3: between Steve and I. I was going to Utah State

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Speaker 3: at the time and they allowed for students to use

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Speaker 3: their three D printers and wed I was printing something

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Speaker 3: for my brother that he was working on, and Steven

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Speaker 3: wanted to get into three D modeling and I'll let

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Speaker 3: him get in on that. But we started kind of sampling,

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Speaker 3: just smaller pieces there, and then we got the courage

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Speaker 3: to buy our own, which was an Ender was it an.

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Speaker 4: Ender V two three pro?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And Steven kind of tell him how you got

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Speaker 3: into modeling, Well, you.

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Speaker 5: Came to me and said, hey, I'm gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 5: buy this printer. It's going to be at your house

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Speaker 5: and you're gonna become the editor, And I said, uh, okay,

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Speaker 5: so I did. We put it together other one night

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Speaker 5: and we started tinkering with it. I think I remember

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Speaker 5: the first time we ran at it. I think the

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Speaker 5: gears grinded and it made a weird noise. I think

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Speaker 5: I stayed up all night because I was worried I

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Speaker 5: was going to catch the house on fire.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know what to expect. So but yeah, it

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Speaker 4: was just.

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Speaker 5: A lot of a lot of tinkering and a lot

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Speaker 5: of learning as you go, a lot of YouTube and

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Speaker 5: for the modeling side, I was fortunately I work as

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Speaker 5: a like a manufacturing engineer for a while, and uh

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Speaker 5: I was learning how to three D model as like

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Speaker 5: a work goal, and so we were able to kind

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Speaker 5: of talk and I was able to kind of implement

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Speaker 5: some designs and kind of learn as I go with this.

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Speaker 5: I always kind of laugh because a lot of the

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Speaker 5: design was made. You know, I'd be sitting at work

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Speaker 5: and I'm I'm learning and I'm I'm modeling.

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Speaker 4: But my boss would walk by and look at my computer.

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Speaker 5: And good job, you know, good for taking on a

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Speaker 5: skill and a work goal, and just I said, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 5: I'm I'm taking this all the way.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: Meanwhile, I'm making a bugle tube.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a lot of similar beginnings there were.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just designed roads, you know, interstates and

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Speaker 1: bridges and stuff, which wasn't near I find what you

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Speaker 1: guys do a lot more complex where it's more mechanical.

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Speaker 2: But it frustrates me that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I learned a lot of my drafting to

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Speaker 1: get some of my more simple parts done just the

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Speaker 1: same way through my cad at worked, but it gave

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Speaker 1: me just enough skills to be able to design some

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. But yeah, so let's jump into the origin. Like,

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Speaker 1: we're all hunters, we all want new gear, we all

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Speaker 1: buy the fanciest new gear.

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Speaker 2: But where did this idea come from?

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Speaker 1: Originally like the very the very first mustard seed that

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Speaker 1: grew this thing into what it is now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I grew up in Salt Lake and we'd only

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Speaker 3: ever hunted meal deer, grown up. Our opportunities in Utah

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Speaker 3: for over the counter elk just aren't super great, but

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Speaker 3: we'd had We have some elk. We have an Elkurd

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Speaker 3: on our wall, sets front range, and I'd set up

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Speaker 3: some trail cameras and there were legal at the time

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Speaker 3: during the season, and I was looking for meal there

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Speaker 3: and I kept getting the six point bowl on there

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Speaker 3: and I turned on video mode and he'd still be

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Speaker 3: in that same meadow. And I come to work and

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Speaker 3: I'm showing the guys because they were all from a

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Speaker 3: smaller town campus just right here, and they were all

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Speaker 3: big ELK guys. They're like, I don't know why you're

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Speaker 3: here at work in September when you have a bowl

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Speaker 3: in an area that's stuck there on some cows, Like

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Speaker 3: what are you doing? And so I'm like, ah, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I've watched some YouTube videos, but I just didn't

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Speaker 3: know anything about ELK. And so I went to cal

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Speaker 3: Ranch and forty dollars ELK tag and I bought a

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Speaker 3: Ucci Mama, so I it's a little bit of a

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Speaker 3: shout out doing a Huci Mama. Of sense. Then grown

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Speaker 3: from the UCI Mama and realized that having being able

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Speaker 3: to use a diaphram or some of these other tools

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Speaker 3: are way more effective when you're ready for the shot

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Speaker 3: and you're in the zone, you know. But I'd gone

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Speaker 3: up there and I'm standing that meadow and I and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, this is like a dog toy. This is

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Speaker 3: not making any sense. And I heard a bugle and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, that's no way. So I'm standing in the

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Speaker 3: middle of this meadow and the sixth point bull comes

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Speaker 3: running out, all muddy, breathing heavy, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is this is insane. You know,

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Speaker 3: this is awesome. And so then I went and bought

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Speaker 3: some diaphragms and started and started to learn. And so,

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Speaker 3: I mean, this isn't very long ago. This was twenty

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Speaker 3: seventeen nineteen, and uh, you know. From there, I went

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Speaker 3: and bought a bugle tube lost it and always wanted

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Speaker 3: that extra volume, and so I bought yours, which is

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Speaker 3: funny because Dirk doesn't know this. I talked to Dirk

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Speaker 3: at one of the hunting expos I mean it was

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Speaker 3: maybe twenty nineteen or something, and he had his bugler

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Speaker 3: with the gray cover on it and you had the

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Speaker 3: first light cover and he's sitting there and yeah, this,

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Speaker 3: this and that, and he sold me from some diaphragms

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Speaker 3: and I looked over. I'm like, oh, what about that one.

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Speaker 3: He goes, oh, yeah, that one's good too. I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: I like the camera on that one. And he goes,

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Speaker 3: so he sells me that one, and I heard him

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Speaker 3: when I walked away. He goes, there's another one just

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Speaker 3: to the camo. Okamurmer that and but you know, and

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Speaker 3: I love the the volume that comes out of that.

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Speaker 3: But unfortunately, if you know anything about the wasass that's front,

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Speaker 3: it is so heavily populated with just recreators. I mean

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Speaker 3: it's an archery only, and they did that just because

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Speaker 3: of the high prevalence of people. And so I'd get

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Speaker 3: up there and I'd first, like you know, I'd hike

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Speaker 3: six miles and I'd rip a bugle and I'd sit

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Speaker 3: there and listen. Then I'd hear, hey, Dave, do you

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Speaker 3: hear that this? Don't look at ilk We're just hear that.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, my health cutting's over for the day.

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Speaker 3: But I still got a deer tag, so maybe I

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Speaker 3: can hunt deer. And I got my spotting scope. So

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Speaker 3: I just wanted the space. I just wanted the room

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Speaker 3: in my pack. And you know, this was about the

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Speaker 3: same time that Steve and I were tinkering with three

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Speaker 3: D printing and we were printing some other things and

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Speaker 3: I was like, Stephen, I wonder if I could make

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Speaker 3: a bugle tube that would just you know, make it smaller.

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Speaker 3: And so his first prototype, which I'd like to share

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Speaker 3: one day with everyone, is maybe it was what ten pieces,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, it was that had a mouthpiece on it

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Speaker 3: and then the rest just look like one of those yeah,

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Speaker 3: like star war swords that you fling out.

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Speaker 1: Like those little cups of the kids have that backed

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Speaker 1: down flat is they got like five sections that make

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Speaker 1: them into a cup and exactly, Yeah, that's.

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Speaker 3: All it was, and that's what it was. And then

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Speaker 3: I mean we really went from there. It was it

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Speaker 3: was fun and through the process. I mean we could

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Speaker 3: talk a long time about each in each individual Stephen,

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Speaker 3: how many did you say we had? Rev?

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Speaker 4: Thirty two?

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Speaker 5: I think plus that's big changes, you know, minor teams.

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Speaker 5: You don't mark those, and that's something I learned along

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Speaker 5: the way. But a lot of the tubes, you know,

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Speaker 5: we would would we'd make it and then we we

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Speaker 5: could do this, and most design manufacturing you would make

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Speaker 5: several changes and review it and then print. But the

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Speaker 5: way Kyle and I would work would make one subtle

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Speaker 5: change and let's print that sucker. So I have a

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Speaker 5: basement full of plastic bugle tubes that my kids will

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Speaker 5: grab and hit each other with all the time.

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Speaker 3: So it's great, nice, nice funny.

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Speaker 1: So, uh, that first part of type A bunch of

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Speaker 1: extendable circle sections of tube. When did you guys what

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Speaker 1: led to like what we're calling our coil lock technology.

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Speaker 1: You know that the patent is actually filed around Like

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Speaker 1: when did that come into play? Like when did you

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Speaker 1: guys decide that was like a more positive system? When

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Speaker 1: did it come you know, when did it get decided

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Speaker 1: to make it? The three pieces? Like, tell us about

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Speaker 1: that process on. Yeah, we don't need to go through

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Speaker 1: every revision, but just kind of how we got there

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Speaker 1: and like where where the final idea came from.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So this was I think it was twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: I'd gone out cunting by myself and I'd had one

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Speaker 3: of his. We called it friction fit because you would

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Speaker 3: pull the ends as tight as you could and it

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Speaker 3: would cause enough friction to stay put and when you

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Speaker 3: would go to collapse it, you'd have to push so

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Speaker 3: hard that the mouthpiece would end up shooting out. And

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Speaker 3: so what the first end cap, which really ended up

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Speaker 3: being one of the biggest, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, challenging pieces, is out there, right.

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Speaker 3: And you've seen, yeah, the magic. And so the first

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Speaker 3: end cap was actually looked like a crosshair to keep

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Speaker 3: the other pieces from falling out. And so that's what

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Speaker 3: I went hunting with was that, and I killed an

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Speaker 3: elk with it, and there's a little video of me

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Speaker 3: showing it. But I kind of knew that it just

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Speaker 3: wasn't like there's just well first off the root. You

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Speaker 3: can hear it, and I remember.

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Speaker 5: Walking you know it's yeah, it's that material in the

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Speaker 5: sunlight will warp. So we just knew right away that

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Speaker 5: three D printing is great for prototyping, but it can

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Speaker 5: never be like, at least for PLA, you can't use

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Speaker 5: it outside.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, oh you're fine. And I remember walking in on

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Speaker 3: like an elk and I was worried about it collapsing,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, this is not with my gear, right,

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Speaker 3: you just you need to know that it's gonna you

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Speaker 3: can trust it out in the field, especially when it counts.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm like, Stephen, this thing has to lock.

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Speaker 3: And then when it's closed, I don't need it rattling.

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Speaker 3: It has to lock there and so and then from

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Speaker 3: then we started playing with other prototypes and we tried

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Speaker 3: some other snap fit models, but again you'd have that

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Speaker 3: you'd need that defining snap to where each piece would

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Speaker 3: go snap snap, and then it would the force to

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Speaker 3: set it down. I don't care what material you have,

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Speaker 3: it's just too loud for the type application that I'd like.

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Speaker 3: So so then we started playing with this this coil

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Speaker 3: lock and Steve and you can yeah, well, you know.

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Speaker 4: I experimented with threads and with the diameter.

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Speaker 5: The modeling program I was using at the time wouldn't

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Speaker 5: let me put threads on it. Plus something little details

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Speaker 5: we got into was we called it, you know, the illusion,

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Speaker 5: But basically in the inside you'd have a straight and

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Speaker 5: then an angle, and so it kind of looked like

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Speaker 5: it was angled, but it wasn't. We were really excited

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Speaker 5: about it, but it was hard to get threads at

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Speaker 5: an angle. But anyways, we ended up with this coil

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Speaker 5: feature that we were just kind of using as a

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Speaker 5: thread and it was very subtle, very thin, but it

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Speaker 5: worked really well. And as soon as we did it,

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Speaker 5: you know, there was a bunch of prototypes where the

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Speaker 5: coil wasn't tight enough, it was too loose, and I

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Speaker 5: had to learn about offsetting it and add to fill

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Speaker 5: its and all kinds of grease and just all these

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Speaker 5: different things to try to get a coil fitment to work.

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Speaker 5: And then once you had that working and then you

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Speaker 5: were on threading in, it would bind all all kinds

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Speaker 5: of fun stuff. So but yeah, it was just a

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Speaker 5: coil feature that we kind of found and then we

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Speaker 5: found out how to make that coil feature lock and

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Speaker 5: tension fit tightened. And yeah, it's been quite a quite

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Speaker 5: a lot of prototypes, so we figured it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know those original materials you mentioned

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Speaker 1: PLA which, for those that don't know, it's a type

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Speaker 1: of plastic resin that was specifically designed for three D printing,

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Speaker 1: if my memory serves me correct, And and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the recognition of the idea and then how we

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Speaker 1: ultimately changed materials. But yeah, I can remember the first

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Speaker 1: prototype once Dirk said we should look into this. You

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Speaker 1: guys were open to the idea. You mentioned grease. You know,

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Speaker 1: I opened the first one up and my hands are

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Speaker 1: all grease. You now, yeah, like like something happened, and

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Speaker 1: then you're like, you know, the first one, we knew it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes you could overtighten them because pla.

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Speaker 1: Once again, no matter how high quality of a three

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00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 1: D printer, you've got their ridges and it creates like

339
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Speaker 1: additional friction that you you know, didn't necessarily want.

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Speaker 2: But regardless of all of that, I was stoked about

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Speaker 2: the performance.

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Speaker 1: Like great back pressure is a guy that you know

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Speaker 1: roots myself and being a high high quality caller, a

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Speaker 1: guy that's very very picky on the back pressure. I

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Speaker 1: get very very picky about the volume I get. I said,

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Speaker 1: regardless of the grease on my hands right now, and

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Speaker 1: regardless of you know, any of these other things, regardless

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Speaker 1: that you know that it's only three D printed right now,

349
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Speaker 1: like this thing has got some legs. I'm we can

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Speaker 1: work with this. And then so that kind of leads

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Speaker 1: us to the recognition of the great idea. Right It's like, ah,

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Speaker 1: we can do this now. It's like, are these guys

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know at the time, Kyle and Steven

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Speaker 1: willing to talk to us? Are they interested in this?

355
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Speaker 1: Are they are they going to bring this thing out?

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Speaker 1: You know, you guys had already filed for your pat

357
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Speaker 1: and your provisional at that time, Like how do we

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Speaker 1: deal with that? Like we're not going to get into

359
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Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts of all of that, but I

360
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Speaker 1: will say I'm gonna say I wanted to do a royalty,

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Speaker 1: which would have saved me lots of years of my

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Speaker 1: life for months and hours, and we ended up, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing this contract thing and nobody needs no other details,

364
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Speaker 1: but basically, you know, coming out the other side, we're

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Speaker 1: building a legal to with Kiven's name on it. We'll

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Speaker 1: just put it that way. So the recognition of the

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Speaker 1: great idea, Dirk was fully on board. I was fully

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Speaker 1: on board. You guys were open to entertaining the idea

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Speaker 1: as long as it made quote unquote business sense for

370
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Speaker 1: you guys. Now let's move because with my experience and

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Speaker 1: my understanding of schedules, tooling everything, we're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: get into place like we're already kind of behind right

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Speaker 1: in order to release it this year. So that was

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Speaker 1: where like my concern lied at that point. And then

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Speaker 1: this this process drug out and drug out, and we

376
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Speaker 1: were unwilling to start spending you know, lots of money

377
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: on tooling until this was like a for sure thing.

378
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Speaker 1: We don't need to get into that as much because

379
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Speaker 1: it's gonna boor everybody. But I'm not a legal expert.

380
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Speaker 1: I don't like dealing with that side. I just want

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Speaker 1: to design cool stuff and use cool stuff and make

382
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Speaker 1: it the best we can. But in this process there

383
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Speaker 1: I do want to touch on. There's a little bit

384
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Speaker 1: of that humility, and anybody that knows me knows and

385
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Speaker 1: I hate being a proud guy, but I would be

386
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,280
Speaker 1: lying to say, like, I'm not pretty prideful at times

387
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 1: in in my my know how when I'm able to

388
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Speaker 1: do my skill, and there was a lot of humility

389
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,120
Speaker 1: in order for me to be like, yeah, you guys

390
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 1: got a great idea, like, let's make this happen. And

391
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Speaker 1: so that uncomfortable situation that I'm not good in is

392
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Speaker 1: where a lot of growth happens, right, And so just

393
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: kind of adding to the podcast a little bit of

394
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,560
Speaker 1: sentimental stuff here, like when you're uncomfortable, when you don't

395
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: necessarily like it, but you're willing to get over that

396
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: is where you know, some cool stuff happens.

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Speaker 3: And Jason, I have to I don't. You don't know that,

398
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 3: but I was I'd gotten some advice from, you know,

399
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 3: some other people in the industry, and when we'd first

400
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 3: talked to Dirk, he was like, guys, I like it

401
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 3: sounds like Jason's on board. I was wondering if I

402
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 3: could take one of your calls right now. This is

403
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,399
Speaker 3: at the expo, and he goes, you know, I think

404
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 3: we could jump on this quick, in a hurry, and

405
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, And so I went and talked to

406
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 3: my advice and they're like, you know, usually when someone's

407
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 3: in a hurry, it's you know, and see, we were

408
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,080
Speaker 3: kind of like a little standoffish because I would say,

409
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 3: anybody and maybe you were this way at the start.

410
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 3: When you have like a new product or you're trying to,

411
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,719
Speaker 3: you know, get a patent application, you feel like you're

412
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 3: being chased, and especially when you're very small, it almost

413
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 3: seems like somebody can just squish you quick. But then

414
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,200
Speaker 3: we're like, we're talking to one of the big dogs,

415
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 3: and so let's have that conversation. And as soon as

416
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 3: we start talking with you, we realized Steve and I

417
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 3: would joke, he's just like us. He you know, he

418
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 3: he's a hunter, he makes movie quotes, he's funny, and

419
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Speaker 3: then you know he's a family man. You're constantly you know,

420
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 3: you would all right, guys, we're gonna do this, this

421
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 3: and that and Okay, I gotta go to basketball practice

422
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 3: or stuff like that. One of the very first conversations

423
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 3: you said was I my goal as a businessman and

424
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 3: in life is to not screw anyone over. And just

425
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 3: you saying that made us so much more comfortable through

426
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 3: the whole process, and since then it was I mean,

427
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 3: I didn't have any sort of stress through it.

428
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Speaker 2: I hope you know not that this is where the

429
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:35,159
Speaker 2: podcast needs to go.

430
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Speaker 1: But like in the process, I'm not the old man

431
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 1: by any means, but like been through this for fifteen

432
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Speaker 1: years now, Like I just wanted to make sure that

433
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: you guys were comfortable and knew like the pros and

434
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 1: cons and hopefully through that process, like, hey, guys, we

435
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:50,879
Speaker 1: can do this. This is what we're proposing, but you

436
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: should maybe think about this right And and so I

437
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 1: really wanted, I truly want the best for you guys.

438
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 2: You guys had a great idea.

439
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: There's no sense in you know, me coming in and

440
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 1: make and all the money, you know, doing I wanted it.

441
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 1: You know, we've got our calculators to make sure margins

442
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: are where they are. Like, I wanted to take care

443
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: of everybody, and I feel like having the inventors of

444
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: this stay on board still want to be involved. Is

445
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: more important to me than me just being because then

446
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: the story turns in like oh, the big guy with

447
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 1: the money Boden idea and ran with it right where

448
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 1: it's like no, you guys literally and we're going to

449
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: get into this, Like you guys helped me. You guys

450
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: were my design team the whole way through this process.

451
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 1: Like I'm helping, I'm providing ideas, but you guys are

452
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: the ones as well, you know, sitting down in these

453
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: you know meetings, figuring out how to fix the issues,

454
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 1: everything that's going on, you know, as we go to

455
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,479
Speaker 1: mass production. So to me, that teamwork is way more

456
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 1: important than me grabbing it running with it. And it's

457
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: it's not how I wanted to tell the story.

458
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 2: And this whole deal.

459
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: I didn't want it to be like we bought an idea,

460
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: you guys got cut out and here here phelps is

461
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: like crushing the KIV and tube, you know, wanting not

462
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: I didn't do it for publicity, even though I'm telling

463
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: it on the podcast. It was very important to like

464
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 1: keep your guys' name on it, right, It doesn't make

465
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: sense to like wipe out Kivan and it's Phelps' transformer

466
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 1: tube or Phelps's coil lock, like it didn't feel right,

467
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: and so really wanted to make sure we did this

468
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: thing right just as much as like bring a cool

469
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 1: product to market.

470
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was that was important.

471
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 5: Really, we were super excited when we saw that, and

472
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 5: we're like, also we were kind of mad because we're like, oh,

473
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 5: that logo is way cooler.

474
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: Than what we.

475
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 3: Well, that's that's so funny. And Jason, it's cool to

476
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 3: see your team and I've been able to work with

477
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: some of your team at the expo and uh see

478
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 3: you know, and I don't know if you knew this.

479
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 3: I was actually in a small meeting with was Sondie

480
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 3: and she's great, and it's just it takes a village

481
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 3: right to build what you've built. And when it was

482
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 3: just Steven and I, you know, we I built my

483
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 3: first logo just playing on a Photoshop and Stephen was

484
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 3: is this product started from a line? You know, and

485
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 3: any any feature or anything he had a YouTube and

486
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 3: so I kind of wanted to touch on right before

487
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 3: when we'd had a pretty solid prototype that I wanted

488
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 3: to maybe show some friends or take hunting and not

489
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: be hiding it all the time because I kind of

490
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 3: knew we had something. We were talking with my grandpa

491
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 3: and and with your family, you're always trying to get like, hey,

492
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 3: is this a good idea? You think I'm going to

493
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 3: be successful? And they're always like, oh, yeah, you're so great.

494
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 3: Everything you do is great. And so you're almost like,

495
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: am I like a kid on a trampoline who like

496
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 3: does a front flip? And they're like you're the best,

497
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 3: you know, And so like, is this really a good idea?

498
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 3: But I can't ask anyone? And so we asked my

499
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: grandpa and he goes, he's looking at it. He goes, well,

500
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: what I know of elk hunters is I know guys

501
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 3: will buy wafers that's covered and pissed. So if they're

502
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 3: willing to buy that, I'm sure they're willing to buy this.

503
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 3: And that got me like right, you know, And so

504
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 3: I went to go file that provisional or that non

505
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 3: provisional patent, which is the first step in the patent process.

506
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 3: And I'd looked and we were trying to cut money

507
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: anywhere we can, and so I looked at what it

508
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: would take to have a patent attorney drapped up and

509
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: it was like twelve hundred. But then through you, you know, YouTube,

510
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 3: university and other forms, I learned that that's a that's

511
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: one of the things that you can do on your

512
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: own that like legally, and so I filed it and

513
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 3: I would just advise anyone to save yourself a year

514
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: two three of just stress have a patent attorney doing it,

515
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: because the whole time, I'm like, this is what's going

516
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 3: to screw this up. Yeah, I filed that wrong. I

517
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 3: didn't put in the right information. Jason. I don't think

518
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 3: you realized how stressed I was. And then talking with

519
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: you guys, and then you know, it was it was

520
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 3: just funny because I'm like, this whole deal is going

521
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 3: to go down and crumble because I was being cheap.

522
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: Now our patent our council actually gave you kudos for

523
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: they didn't believe that just two guys that didn't have

524
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: any counsel.

525
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: That was your guys applications. So you got good job.

526
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: I'll hear that you didn't want that felt better than

527
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 3: getting my like college diploma. When she said that, I

528
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 3: was like shit, I was like, I don't know. I

529
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: kind of up in the meeting was like, hey, so

530
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: will you just tell me what you thought that. She goes,

531
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: oh it was great.

532
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can work with this.

533
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 3: I can work with this.

534
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: That was funny. So fast forward.

535
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: We get all the business done, we're moving forward, right,

536
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: we've signed on all the dotted lines, we're able to

537
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: invest in tooling. Now is when like I can finally

538
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: start to help in this process besides just being a

539
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: reviewer of the product. When you've taken something that's three

540
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: D printed, and for those that don't know, three D

541
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: printing is awesome because anything you dream up can be made. Well,

542
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: guess what in the real world when you want to

543
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 1: mass produce these with automated parts, it doesn't work that way. Right,

544
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: there's coils. Now you've got coils. Well, how the heck

545
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: do you twist these things and get these coils into

546
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: a piece.

547
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: Of hard plastic? How do you.

548
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: Blow molding, which we've used on a lot of our

549
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: other tubes, isn't accurate enough to line up coils and

550
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: make sure that you know blow molding. You get good

551
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: external dimensions, but you are really limited to your shot

552
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: and how the shot spun on the inside or like

553
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: where the materials at so you know, the idea of

554
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: coils and all this stuff wasn't gonna work. So this

555
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: ended up being I've did lots of plastic injection before

556
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: on our smaller parts, but this is my first like

557
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: plastic injection beegle tube, Like, how are.

558
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: We going to do this?

559
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: What?

560
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 2: What materials are available?

561
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: And so we go through a process called DFM, which

562
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: is design and manuft Design for Manufacturability process, which you know,

563
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: you get these big reports on every part you make.

564
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: So on this tube we basically get what I call

565
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: the mouthpiece, the mid body, the main body, and then

566
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: the end cap correct and so we get a report

567
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: on each one of those parts. They're letting us know

568
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: concerns on sync, where parts are too thick, they're letting

569
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: us know where there's not enough draft. And so for

570
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: a lot for ninety nine percent people out there, draft

571
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. But you can't slide a bar out

572
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: if something gets cast over like an underhook, right, So

573
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: you imagine, you know, a part that gets wrapped around,

574
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: you can't pull the bar back out, or you can't

575
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: slide a poll bar back out, And so we have

576
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: to make sure we've got at least a half a

577
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: degree or you know, sometimes more sometimes less logos become

578
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: a pain, right because you can't slide something past the

579
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: positive logo, so you're always looking at pulling the part

580
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: like skinny to big, you know. But then that doesn't

581
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: always work because if you've got recess or you know,

582
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 1: like this tube's got two corrugations in it, so now

583
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: you're looking at all, right, if we split the tool

584
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: in half and then start sliding stuff right, and so

585
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: it becomes a very very complex tool. And I we

586
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: fought sync a lot, which is ultimately when you guys,

587
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: you know, if you checked out this kuive intube, by

588
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: now we've got little hexagon you know, hexagonal pieces at

589
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: varying depths, right, And that was our solution to aesthetics.

590
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: But then also it was really to remove material, not

591
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: removing material for any other reason that it costs anymore

592
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: that it needed to look this way. It was that

593
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: if the plastic was that thick there, we were going

594
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: to get bad sinc which we'll touch on here in

595
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: a little bit. Like one of our major issues. When

596
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: we tested the first one, we had thin so it's

597
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: not thin metal on the part itself, but it's thin

598
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: metal on the tooling. Right, So if you can imagine,

599
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: in order to make this exact replica this part, your

600
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: part may make the tooling be very very thin or

601
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: like razor edged, and it's not gonna last. It's not

602
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: gonna be durable. So we were moving coil spacings back.

603
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: We were doing what else, guys did we run into

604
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: We ran into sinc We were run in the you know,

605
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: moving the coils back.

606
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: We tried to make the pieces we mane to make. Yeah,

607
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: positive stops.

608
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: We kind of added those positive stops, and so the

609
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: pieces don't really ever we I call them a positive stop,

610
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: but it really prevents us from like, cause the coil

611
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: can just keep going, but this will prevent it from

612
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: like it gives it kind of a bottom out, right,

613
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: so it doesn't want to keep, you know, pushing it

614
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: off out of itself.

615
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, and a lot of a lot of the changes

616
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 5: that we would make. And I'm gonna kind of speak

617
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,719
Speaker 5: like Kyle and I throughout the whole process, not only here.

618
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 5: There's a lot of times when people will have a

619
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 5: great idea, but it's getting that idea to the guy

620
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 5: who knows how to work at the computer. Kyle and

621
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 5: I would sit there and kind of argue about making

622
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 5: a change like the hexagonal shake to get rid of

623
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 5: the sync.

624
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 2: Right.

625
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 4: He was telling me.

626
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 5: I remember, I wanted to look like like a was

627
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 5: it a diamond that you'd press in? And I remember

628
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 5: looking at what are you talking at?

629
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: What?

630
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 4: And we would just try and model.

631
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 3: Like and diamond would need different and I'm trying to

632
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 3: tell him you would press it in further, and I clicked.

633
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, might know exactly what we're talking about.

634
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 5: And well, I ended up kind of making this part

635
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 5: that was almost like a mold piece that I combined

636
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 5: in the feature and it cut and it worked perfectly,

637
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 5: and we offset it and I gave it angles. And

638
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 5: as soon as I understood what draft was, because first

639
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 5: of all, what is draft? I remember you brought that up,

640
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 5: I thought, what is this crap? This draft thing? Yeah,

641
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 5: as soon as we figured that out, it was it

642
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 5: was great. You know, that was that was a big

643
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 5: learning curve for me. So I really really enjoyed that process.

644
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I and you know that's something that I

645
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: feel like we would make changes over and over again,

646
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: and then we would stop and be like, we're making

647
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: changes for this material. So if we were sitting there

648
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: and making changes for PLA over and over again, we're like, well,

649
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: what we're about to make is not PLA, And so

650
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: you almost waste your time a little bit because there's

651
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: different cooling rates and there's different ways that material interacts

652
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: after it's it's built, and so that was something that's

653
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: extremely hard. Even I feel like I thought it would

654
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 3: be more streamlined, but you even when they send those

655
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: products over, you don't know exactly how it's going to interact.

656
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're doing our best on our side, right

657
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: because we've got a lot of money at stake.

658
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: We're putting a lot of money into this tooling. I

659
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: keep my finances or my.

660
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: Company finance and myself, but this is by far the

661
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: most expensive tooling we've ever built.

662
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: Time sixt we're still paying on it, but very expensive.

663
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: But at some point, like you're saying, you know, you

664
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: have to, we had a very good liaison, my design

665
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: team that works between ourselves and the manufacturer, also an engineer,

666
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: also a materials engineer. Like we're all putting our heads together,

667
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: like is this gonna work? Is it gonna shrink at

668
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: the right rate? And we're gonna end up in the

669
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: right spot. Are we gonna if we do get some sync,

670
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: like where does this end up?

671
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: And so and me being like the one beating the drum.

672
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: Hey guys, we're running out.

673
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: Of time, right, So this not only not only do

674
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: we have to make changes, but I need them like

675
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: very quick because I'm I'm helping with some of the

676
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: ideas on the changes, not a lot of them, trying

677
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: to keep the scene on schedule, checking in daily, Like

678
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: all right, if.

679
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: We get these you know, we get these changes d

680
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: by thursday, can we go?

681
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 4: Well?

682
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: Then the thing that.

683
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: I feel like when I was just designing roads or bridges,

684
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: I would make the change once and it would just stick.

685
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:53,239
Speaker 2: Right.

686
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: It's like we'd make changes what would create another set

687
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: of issues. So we get the DFM report back and like, well,

688
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: that's great, we've the thin metal issue. Now we've got

689
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: this other issue that's popped up or a brittle edge

690
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, And so it was what three or

691
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: four or five iterations, We're finally ready for our first

692
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: T zero sample. We we get through all of this,

693
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: we're testing stuff, we're trying to train up the facility,

694
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: and it's making them kind of how things should fit

695
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, the end cap and I get the first

696
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: part shipped to me, and this if I remember at

697
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: the small and threaded into the medium end pretty well

698
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: it fit.

699
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: The middle body will not go through.

700
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 1: The large end is extremely tight, and I'm like, well,

701
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: this is not this is not gonna work like and

702
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: this is not functional for a hunter. And then the

703
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: worst part was I wanted to put the end caped

704
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: on and it fell in like it was way too

705
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: the end cap was oversized or our end cap was undersized,

706
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: or the end of the tube was oversized or a

707
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: combination thereof. Well, this is like the most frustrating part

708
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: for me because I I've got all kinds of ID

709
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: gauges OD gauge's calipers. But now we're sitting here in

710
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: task with like how did this happen? Like what is

711
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: the cause? What part needs fixed? Does both of them?

712
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: Is it stacking tolerances? Is it one or the other?

713
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 3: Like?

714
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: What caused this?

715
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: You guys got I sent I overnighted yours to you.

716
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: I can remember swinging by some FedEx store. Get them

717
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: to you guys, so we can start to work on

718
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: this together. You guys realized we did get some like

719
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: sink in the one area that got tight. We we

720
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: realized that we got some sync on the end cap.

721
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: And we're all kind of sitting there like, huh, because

722
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: now you have the idea to either go back and

723
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: spray weld your tool if you want to, if you

724
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: want to add material, or you can keep machining and

725
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: going out. So we're trying to like with with keeping

726
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: the schedule as close as we can, like what's the

727
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: right solution here, quickest, cheapest, all of those things to

728
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: get us a workable, serviceable product.

729
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I YouTube stressed, and since I wasn't the designer,

730
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: I was like, what do you guys gonna do? I will,

731
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: but I could tell like Steven was stressed, and I

732
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: we we'd sit there in his basement and just like

733
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: we've done before and just iterations and we'd come up

734
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: with five ten different solutions and then throw you out

735
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: the best three and just having that experience through you know,

736
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: years of you doing this, and it was like you've mentioned, like,

737
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: this isn't my first rodeo dealing with tolerances, you know,

738
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: some some of the other. And I it's funny too,

739
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 3: because when you go through the process, you start to

740
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: really appreciate what other people accomplished in products or some

741
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 3: of the other products you have, and how you know

742
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 3: the reads the way that you can get them to

743
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: fit into some of your other products and stuff. So

744
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: and that's where Steve and I and it was so

745
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: cool that you kept us involved because you're totally you

746
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: are totally you know, capable of doing that, but you

747
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 3: helped you allowed us to to still stay in the

748
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 3: mix and and help fix our own problems.

749
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 5: Always kept me really nervous because I'd be modeling stuff

750
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 5: and making a change and I send it to you

751
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 5: and be like, man, does he know I'm not a

752
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 5: mechanical engineer. Does he know this isn't what I do

753
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 5: for this is a hobby, you know, So I'd be

754
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 5: kind of nervous about it. But everything worked out pretty well.

755
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: No, you you crushed it, steven On.

756
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: You know a lot of times just an idea guy,

757
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: or I do have a mechanical engineer that I've consulted

758
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: with in the past, but I didn't want to.

759
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 2: I wanted this to be you guys. And we we

760
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: powered through and got there.

761
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 1: So I'm stoked at how everything turned out. But let's

762
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: so fast forward we're trying to come up with a solution.

763
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: It's not really going to be in the design. The

764
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: design is what it is. Like we know that works

765
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: on a piece that is can stick to spec. We

766
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: know that, but we've either got it, We've got to

767
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: just we've got to either make a guess amant on

768
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: if well, if that shrinks too much, then we need

769
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: to open it up another five thouur tenth thou to

770
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: get it to fit. Right, is there are the coil

771
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: still going to hook? Like now I start to feel

772
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: nervous because there's some risk and in our decisions we

773
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: go back. I call it the material board, like are

774
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: there some materials that just get you out of this?

775
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: And this is where I'm not gonna I've told everybody

776
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: in the past our tubes are all HDPE. You're not

777
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: gonna get to find out what this one was. So

778
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: we this tube ended up being a result of something

779
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: that shrunk a little bit less but could still fit

780
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: in the same tool and it would react in the tool,

781
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: and it was a little bit of a blessing in disguise,

782
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of a godsend. But why what

783
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: we were trying to do is always worked for a

784
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: tube in the past. This new material that we use

785
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: on this is, in my opinion, and I'm not I

786
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: get a chance to use carbon fiber beegle tubes. I

787
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: use metal aluminum bugle tubes. Plastic. We kind of got

788
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: backed into a material that makes an amazing beegle tube.

789
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: Louder I feel it's a little more rich than what

790
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: we had been testing previously, and so in order to

791
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: create less shrink, we ended up landing on a material

792
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: that in my opinion, is a little bit better on

793
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: an elk tube and ultimately solved all the issues basically

794
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: there at the end.

795
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: So like just it's how it works.

796
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't always work that way, but through material

797
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: selection we cleaned up some of our issues. We did

798
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: have to make us what we did have to make

799
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: the end cap a little bit bigger, got the snap

800
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: fit to be very very positive. We were also nervous

801
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: that if it snapped, the original material we were using

802
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: has more of a memory. So as we were worried,

803
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: all right, your stuff an end cap and it's not

804
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: quite tight enough.

805
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: It gets hot.

806
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: Now that end CAP's going to mold that or the

807
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: the end of the barrel is going to mold the

808
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 1: end cap. Is it going to fall out next time?

809
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: Very very positive, click, We've got now materials tough. We

810
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: got rid of as much of the sticking on overtightening

811
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: on both ends, and really just ended up on hopefully

812
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: a product that you guys can be super proud of

813
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: your guys's brain child that I was able to maybe

814
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: just polish along the way or luck into some decisions

815
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: that made it even better.

816
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: Well, and that's what was so cool was when you'd

817
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 3: gotten that sample of that new material. We the initially

818
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: the material was to avoid all the problems that were

819
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: taking place with with tolerancing or sticking or this or

820
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 3: that and another. And then the text we got was

821
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 3: got the new material, and the first thing you said

822
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: was it's loud. Yeah, And that was like sweet, like

823
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 3: that icing on top of the cake and you're like,

824
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 3: oh yeah, and everything else works. And so that was

825
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 3: because first and foremost, we're trying to create a product

826
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 3: that that functions, but then what's the product do? Yeah,

827
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 3: we're trying to be out there and be loud. So

828
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: that was great.

829
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: I do a lot of what I would call like

830
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: standard testing in my office, in my you know, step

831
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: out of my office door on the upstairs of our shop.

832
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: And it's the same place, same reads. And I told

833
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: my wife after the very first one, the final final

834
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: production in olive Green, I came up here and cranked

835
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: on it for five six minutes make sure everything worked.

836
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: I'm like my ears hurt, you know, for a couple

837
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: hours afterwards. And so it's the same tubes I use

838
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: up here now. The metal the carbon are both loud,

839
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: but this kivin is every bit as loud, and it's

840
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: it's got great back pressure.

841
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 5: And I love that back pressure terminology because you know,

842
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 5: being I like to you know, Kyle's the big elk

843
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 5: hunor he's taken me. I'm not as you know, experienced

844
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 5: as he is, but I remember when we were we

845
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 5: get some feedback. It's got really good back pressure, that

846
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 5: end cap, you know. And it's hilarious because the one

847
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 5: I was initially when we were kind of making that

848
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 5: that end cap was had a different purpose.

849
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 4: It had nothing to do with back pressure, but the.

850
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 5: Shape of it and the way that it holds the

851
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 5: pieces in it just seems to be a really really

852
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 5: good and it kind of it kind of amplifies and

853
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 5: bounces anyways, it ended up being really really good with

854
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 5: that back pressure and that you know I like to

855
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 5: walk around.

856
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 4: So oh yeah, that was intentional. Absolutely absolutely.

857
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 1: Now it's a it's a home run. Like I say,

858
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: it's got our logo on one side, but truly, you know,

859
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: you guys did the heavy lifting and we're we're stoked

860
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: to bring it out.

861
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 2: Uh. One last thing we started.

862
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: We got those tea what i'd call T one samples,

863
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: the second set of samples, and I'm like, these things

864
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: are way too shiny, Like I've ordered everything in like

865
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: a C three finished. So just these things that keep

866
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: coming up when you're trying to get stuff out, like days,

867
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, every single day matters, and so we had

868
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: to have them go back and like, well, that is

869
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: truly a C three, which I don't believe you because

870
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: it's literally it's it's a it's what was left when

871
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: you mild the tool out like you guys, it's it's

872
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: got shiny sections, it's got doll sections, it's.

873
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 2: Whatever tool you know, end mill, ball, mill and ball

874
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: and mill whatever they were using to make that section.

875
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: You guys didn't spray it after, so you know, kind

876
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: of kind of fought with the manufacturer a little bit like, no,

877
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: you guys didn't.

878
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: I'm not paying for that.

879
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: You guys did not give us a C three finish,

880
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: But now that we're here, give me like a D

881
00:39:59,080 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: one finish.

882
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 2: So we've got this thing.

883
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: So one of the downsides, maybe the only downside to

884
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: the Kiven Tube is its modularity prevents any cover from

885
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: going on up besides a short section of the big end,

886
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: which we don't provide at this point. So that's why

887
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: me being a hunter making sure we get everything out

888
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: of this weekend, we go to that very very dull,

889
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: olive green matt finish. You know, maybe somewhere in the

890
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: future we provide some little cover for it, but as

891
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: of now, the Kiven Tube will be completely exposed plastic

892
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: on the outside, which is just a nature of the function.

893
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that intention being that it'll fit anywhere

894
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 3: in its backpacks and a couple holders, I mean they

895
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: were they're all built to spec for kind of that

896
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 3: Nalgene bottle that that outdoorsy water bottle size, and so

897
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 3: the bezel is built around that size, so it'll fit

898
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 3: in any of any your your pack pockets. And that's

899
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 3: where that's where it stays. And and it h you

900
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: can you can even take that piece out and keep

901
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 3: it on the end of the call. I've had I've

902
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 3: had some people do that and tighten up because there's

903
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 3: a little strap around some of those pieces and keep

904
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: that on there if you wanted to keep the camera

905
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 3: on the end.

906
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: But yeap, And one of the cool things is you

907
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: don't got to extend all three sections. You can just

908
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: extend the mouthpiece and the middle section if you want

909
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: less volume, a little tighter sound.

910
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 2: So it's it's got a ton of a ton of utility.

911
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: I kind of joke at the sportsman shows or play

912
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: around with it like it's a great gobble tube. If

913
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: you're trying to gobble in the turkey and you have

914
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: it completely condensed, you know, if you have it half

915
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: if you have it halfway out, you know, it's a

916
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: great coyote call.

917
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: So it truly is a good call. Might they are

918
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 2: available now, you know, at all of.

919
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: Your your favorite outdoor retailers, and then also on the

920
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: website a little shameless plug there. But our team crushed it.

921
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: So back to the schedule, we get this, we pull

922
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: the trigger. They found one more issue right that the

923
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: end of one of the coils was collapsing, and once

924
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: again we had to make like a split second decision.

925
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: They basically proposed us with three options. You know, I

926
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: just like our stuff to look good as well as function.

927
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: They said one would just be a cosmetic issue. But

928
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: we ended up you know, cleaning it up with option three,

929
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: making it kind of slide in better. So that was

930
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: like one last second thing, and then got the tubes in.

931
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: We built three thousand of them, assembled them, boxed them

932
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: in two days, and yeah, they're shipping out. Matter of fact,

933
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: as we're recording the email, I just got a report

934
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: that a very large chunk of them went out today

935
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: to all the retailers. So today is July first, so

936
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: we're this will air on July tenth. So yeah, it's

937
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: just kind of cool to see the process, see everything moving, and.

938
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: You know, praise the.

939
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: Lord whatever you whatever you believe in. But uh, this

940
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: thing like barely made it in by the skin of

941
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: our teeth.

942
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 4: You know.

943
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 2: I was worried that some of these big retailers would

944
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: cancel us.

945
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 1: You know, they had canceled dates by July one, but

946
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: we today is July one, and everything made it and

947
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: is out and going to be available.

948
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 3: No cool, and it was. It was so fun watching

949
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 3: everyone's effort and the fact that you know, and I

950
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: mentioned this before, you kept us in the loop and

951
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: that was so cool to see because from a base

952
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: from where we started and Steven's basement just designing that

953
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: that Star Wars sword Style tube, being able to watch

954
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 3: a product go to market, I cannot express the amount

955
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 3: of steps and challenges and everything that are faced. And

956
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: then when you're Steven and Kyle Bradshaw and then you

957
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 3: have Jason Phelps, who are who's helping you to the

958
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: finish line, and then watching you go through this process,

959
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 3: it was it was a huge learning experience and I'm

960
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: it it was such a good decision for us because

961
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: for us to finish this thing off without your expertise

962
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: and to watch you, you know, you're saying, by the

963
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: grace of God, but that Jason, that watching you got

964
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 3: it there at the end. I mean the way that

965
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 3: you can push in your business sense working with the

966
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 3: manufacturers and everything, and then your business relationships with the

967
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: with the distributors. I'm sure you know everything that you've

968
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 3: built from Phelps game calls is really what I think

969
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 3: got this same are in time.

970
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate that.

971
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: And it's just I don't want everybody to be an

972
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: engineer or an entrepreneur or think they can do this.

973
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: But you guys got to see it.

974
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: It's weird, like until you know, you don't know right,

975
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: it's it's but now that you've gone through the process once,

976
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: like I could probably do that again, Like it's not

977
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: that scary anymore. There's a lot of work that, don't

978
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: get me wrong, there's a lot of work between you know,

979
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: us talking and where we got to. But what else

980
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna do with that time anyways, You're gonna be

981
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: working somewhere else. So it's just it's just a process.

982
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: And and I think a lot of people and this

983
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: this this extends the life and and any tough situation

984
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: is like you just don't give up on it, like

985
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: we from the time I knew it was a good

986
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,479
Speaker 1: idea and had some merit in the ELK cunning world,

987
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: like that was all I needed, Like I can navigate this.

988
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: It's just time effort.

989
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: Sometimes it could be too much money, don't get me wrong,

990
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: but you know, as long as as long as the

991
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 1: finances all make sense, it's just effort and I'm gonna

992
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 1: be doing I have to show up to this place

993
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 1: ten hours a day anyways, might as well be working

994
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: on something that I like and passionate about.

995
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, it is a it is a.

996
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: A difficult process, sometimes nuanced, sometimes complex, a lot.

997
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: Of moving parts.

998
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: But once you've went through it once, hopefully this will

999
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: give you guys confidence to uh, you know, tackle anything

1000
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: else that that comes your way. And and that's that's

1001
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: a great segue into like the future of Kyvan because

1002
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: we we have the Kyvin Beagle two.

1003
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: But you guys are doing other stuff.

1004
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: I'm knowing you guys, getting to know you better over

1005
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: the last year a year plus, Like, I'm sure you

1006
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: guys got more stuff like what's next on the in

1007
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: the basement of Stephen Bradshaw and Kyle dreaming of crazy ideas.

1008
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 4: Top secret.

1009
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: You're still trying to still trying to file those pat

1010
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: provisional patents.

1011
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: You know that.

1012
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 3: So we definitely have like a bundle of ideas things

1013
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 3: that we've been prototyping and something that Steve and I

1014
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: have looked at and I really haven't aired this out

1015
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 3: to anywhere or anyone else, would be that you know,

1016
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 3: maybe kind ofn turns into a business that helps other

1017
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: people get their ideas to Like maybe it's something that

1018
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: you come to us and we have the knowledge to

1019
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 3: know how to get your product to market, you know,

1020
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 3: maybe creating different business relationships and rapid prototyping, you know,

1021
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 3: along the side of some of the things that we

1022
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 3: have in the works which I won't won't use. I

1023
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 3: won't sell anything I haven't used, So a lot of

1024
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 3: things that we've created, I'll be you know, hunting with

1025
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: this fall and and maybe even handing out to some

1026
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: other people I know. But uh, but that's kind of

1027
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: where that's kind of where we're at with it. We're

1028
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 3: really excited because this just initial product, this our flagship

1029
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: product is what we call it. You you really do

1030
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: need a little bit of capital to start. Like everyone

1031
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 3: you know you can you can go out and get

1032
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: business loans and do this, that and another, but to

1033
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 3: have the initial startup and I think you mentioned this

1034
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: in one of your podcasts, like you need you need,

1035
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 3: you do need some money to get in front of

1036
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 3: people right and and to sell your product and do

1037
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: it right. We definitely.

1038
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 4: Know that there's.

1039
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 3: Some challenges to just getting out there in the hunting space.

1040
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 3: Like you know, there's always room for entry, but to

1041
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 3: be loud and to for people to know your name.

1042
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 3: And you got to go to the expos. You got

1043
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: to go to the TACK events and and and create

1044
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 3: all those relationships and stuff. And and we're I think

1045
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 3: we're we're I think you'll see us.

1046
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: Around Yeah good good, So yeah, I think you guys

1047
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: are you know, this is this is my uh my,

1048
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: not you guys. You know, you guys are great guys

1049
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: and uh some you know people I wouldn't has stated

1050
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: to tell other people to do business with. You know,

1051
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: seen your guys' thought process and and this this is

1052
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: you know, this is not not to blow smoke to anybody,

1053
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: but like I've always felt like the people.

1054
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: Now, you gotta have a good product. But once there's

1055
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: a good product.

1056
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: Like the people behind it are more important to me

1057
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: than than maybe the product itself.

1058
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: And so I'll vouch for you guys any day of

1059
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 2: the week.

1060
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: Stoke to get to know you guys work on this

1061
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: and then yeah, now we just got to crush this

1062
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: thing and and uh, you know, take care of take

1063
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: care of our marketing side and make sure everybody you

1064
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: know has one of these moving forward.

1065
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 3: Maybe kill some elk along the way.

1066
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well we'll see if I can, if I

1067
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: can figure out figure that out.

1068
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 3: That's what I joked with you. I was like, so

1069
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 3: now that everything now that is for sale, right, I

1070
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: think Steven he said he had a plan for us

1071
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: all to go hunting hunting together on the hick read.

1072
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 4: Or on the.

1073
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll have to if this, if this thing takes

1074
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: off like we think it will, well maybe put that

1075
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: in the budget for next year. We go down and

1076
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: gate and hickorya tags. No, it's been awesome getting to

1077
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: know you guys. Now, well now you kind of told

1078
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: a hunt story about your first dog. You guys have

1079
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: any hunting stories you want to share before we close

1080
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: this thing up and wrap it up. It seems like

1081
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: we've been stuck on the tube the whole time, which

1082
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: is cool, but I want to give you guys a

1083
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: chance to talk about your favorite hunts or anything you

1084
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: guys have did the school or that you have coming up.

1085
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know we're I've never drawn heck, I've never

1086
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 3: really drawn a good tag. Everything we've done over the

1087
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 3: counter and hunt Idaho, Wyoming, I've bounced all around I'm

1088
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 3: always dragging Stephen long too. He's got he's got kids,

1089
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 3: young kids, so his priority.

1090
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 5: Struggle shifted struggle to get away a ton. But I

1091
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 5: try to go at least once or twice a years. Luckily,

1092
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 5: le basically my guide. We have said any many elk

1093
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 5: and many many deer, and I won't say where. But

1094
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 5: it's been a lot of time.

1095
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I think it'd be

1096
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 3: fun just to give a snidbit into like I think,

1097
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 3: just some advice, if that's okay, Jason, Yeah, yeah, I mean,

1098
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 3: so if I were to think of an elk hunting story,

1099
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: and like I said, I haven't been elk and very long,

1100
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: I mean twenty seventeen and started watching after that initial

1101
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 3: call in that I mentioned, I started watching YouTube videos

1102
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 3: and started watching you know, how to call, how to

1103
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: make those different noises? And there's no secret sauce. But

1104
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 3: there's so much hunting information out there right now. I mean,

1105
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: I mentioned YouTube University is a real thing. The amount

1106
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 3: of information that you can get just watching YouTube videos

1107
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 3: and reading books. And in a short time. You know,

1108
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 3: I've killed elk every year since then, I've killed a bowl.

1109
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 3: There was one year I did not my brother William.

1110
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 3: He drew a limited entry elk tag down on the Mantai,

1111
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 3: and I would encourage anyone if you want to learn

1112
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 3: stuff about elk, you can do all that. But in

1113
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 3: the field, especially when you have a tag opportunity or

1114
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: someone in your family or friend has a tag opportunity,

1115
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 3: and you can utilize the experience that goes along with

1116
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: being in areas with elk. You know, I mean a

1117
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: lot of these over the counter units, they're just so

1118
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 3: hard to be into elk every day and to learn

1119
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: their habits, especially when they're heavily pressured. But on that

1120
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 3: on that Manti hunt, you know, we it was a

1121
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 3: ten day hunt at the time. We hunted just just

1122
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 3: about every day, and going into different canyons and calling

1123
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 3: in different bowls and walking up to maybe where elk

1124
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: used to be and learning, okay, this is why they're here,

1125
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: you know, this is these are the features that you

1126
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: should be looking for, and and then then talking to

1127
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 3: elk and okay, why is it, why did that elk

1128
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 3: come in versus where this one didn't, And just having

1129
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: an abundance of elk that you can learn from really

1130
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: in in in the sense that you just wouldn't get

1131
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 3: that on every over the counter hunt. So if you're

1132
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 3: just trying to learn how to elk hunt, and I

1133
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 3: would say, go go on somebody's limited entry elk hunt

1134
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 3: and and get out there and do that. That's where

1135
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 3: most my my elk hunt knowledge I think came from

1136
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: was was doing that and then jumping into those over

1137
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 3: the counter units and taking all that. But like Jason,

1138
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 3: you know, any of these shows, Dirk, they're very willing

1139
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 3: to help you to on. Like I remember, Dirk doesn't

1140
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: know this too. I went up to him one time.

1141
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, how do I sound. You just

1142
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 3: run up and you blow in their face and they go, oh,

1143
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 3: well look I would try this maybe a little bit,

1144
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 3: or do this that another and it's fun.

1145
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: But no, no, that's great advice.

1146
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 4: You know.

1147
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: I always tell everybody. Number one, which piggybacks on yours,

1148
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: is don't go out there and expect to kill the

1149
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: biggest bulls right off the bat, Like there's steps.

1150
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: There's levels to this game.

1151
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: So you know, you hear all these kids nowadays there's

1152
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: levels of the game, like there are levels to hunting,

1153
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: Like that's it's not near as easy to go kill

1154
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: and now it can't happen. You know, go kill the

1155
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: big six point, you know, the biggest bowl in the mountain. Go,

1156
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, kill kill a cow. First kill a small bowl,

1157
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: and then work your way up. And like you said,

1158
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: great units opportunity where you can work a bowl every morning,

1159
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: every evening, so much more valuable than spending three days

1160
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: trying to even find an oak. Now there's there is value.

1161
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: And what did it take to find those elk? And

1162
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: where did you finally find them? But you know, when

1163
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: you do that, you only get to work three, four

1164
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 1: or five bowls a year. Where where I grew up,

1165
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: I would get the hard to you know, even not

1166
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: necessarily such special units, but like very hard to get

1167
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: to spots where I would see twenty thirty legal bowls

1168
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: in a day.

1169
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: Like I got lots of opportunity.

1170
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: I could screw up two or three times in a morning,

1171
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 1: two or three times at night and just run through

1172
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: that over and over, which definitely flattens that learning curve,

1173
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: which there aren't over the counter spots like that around

1174
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: here anymore. But those special units that have lots of

1175
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: elk can still produce that sort of an experience. And

1176
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: I can I agree one hundred percent that you want

1177
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: to get better elk hunting and YouTube university is a

1178
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: is a real thing, but sometimes it doesn't translate real well.

1179
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: It can give you the basis and the knowledge, but

1180
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: I have just found over talking to a lot of

1181
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: people and sometimes year after year, five years after five

1182
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: years after you know, over a long period of time,

1183
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: some of these people are just reluctant to do it

1184
00:53:58,600 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: no matter how many times I say, well, you need

1185
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: do this or you know, think about doing that. There's

1186
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: like I can't bugle when I'm that closed, you know,

1187
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,479
Speaker 1: and or whatever it may be, not saying that's always

1188
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: right answer. But yeah, you still go out there and

1189
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: develop your own system the way you want to l hunt.

1190
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: Make sure you have a little bit of success along

1191
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: the way. Otherwise you should probably change what you're doing.

1192
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: But you figured it out for yourself, you know, go

1193
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: out and try something, does it work, does it not?

1194
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: Did it work again, did it not? And eventually just

1195
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,439
Speaker 1: you know, reel it in. So no, great great advice, Kyle,

1196
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: That's great.

1197
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and kind of a closing note. I wanted to

1198
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 3: just I can't. I could sit here and lift list

1199
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 3: off people. But the hunting industry has an immense amount

1200
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 3: of support, and we had support from family members, to friends,

1201
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 3: to influencers in the community and just people in the

1202
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 3: hunting space. It's a good it's a good place to

1203
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 3: be in it. People want to see succeed and if

1204
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 3: anybody out there has ideas and the ideas to make

1205
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 3: products better, I'd say just try it, you know, get

1206
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 3: out there, go to some of these events, and I

1207
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: think you people would be surprised how supportive the hunting

1208
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 3: industry is. It's great.

1209
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's a pretty cool group.

1210
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: So once again, can't thank you guys for coming on

1211
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: the podcast, and enough can't thank you guys for giving

1212
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: us a chance to be a part of your your

1213
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: flagship product, your first product. And here's the kind of

1214
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: crushing it here in the next two or three ten

1215
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: years to have a feeling the idea and the technology

1216
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: behind that, Kuyvin Coyle lock is what we're going to

1217
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: build a lot of our new stuff on. I'm moving

1218
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: forward so excited about that. You guys have a great

1219
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: summer and we'll stay in touch for sure, as.

1220
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: You know, fall approaches.

1221
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 3: Thanks Jason, Thanks appreciate it.

1222
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, take care

1223
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 4: The back hand s