WEBVTT - Episode 34 - Natalie Hemby (2-2-17) 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:04.280 All right, welcome to episode thirty four of The Bobby 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:10.960 Cast with songwriter artist friend of a lot of friends 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.640 who have been on this show already, like like we 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.480 have an odd circle that we've never actually met before. 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:18.280 I feel like, I know you've become such a huge fan. 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.319 Natalie Himby is here, but um yeah, most of the 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.479 most of our friends have been in that chair, so 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.680 it's nice to finally have you here. I know, I 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.440 feel like it's all warmed up for me, so which 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.760 is good. I should just get this out of the way. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.800 I've seen you out before, but been a little intimidated 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.520 to come up and say hello, Oh my goodness, because 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:42.200 you have one of those presences about you. Well, it's 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.919 just if you. I'm sure people would say the same 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:49.680 about you, though, Like I don't go out either. This 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.080 was an anomaly. If you saw me out, it was like, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.720 you know, a songwriter or you know, one of the 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:56.760 industry events, and I was like, I don't want to go. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:58.640 I just feel like I bother people. So I'm a 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.800 big fan, Like I'm a big fan of yours. Can 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:06.679 bother me anytime. I will bother you after this a lot. So, uh, 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.520 Natalie's here, we have a lot to talk about because 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.360 when we lined up and started doing these um thirty 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.120 four episodes ago, we pick like ten people that we 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.280 wanted to talk to, and it was you were on 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.080 the list, and I was like, Caitlin Smith and Marin 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:20.840 and you have people that I'm close to that I 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.720 know have really great stories, and throughout all of this 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.240 you can see all of those. But it's an odd 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.640 time because since then you also have a record too, 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:30.679 So we have so much to talk about. We have 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.800 so much to talk about it. So, yes, I have 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.520 some great stories too. So let's start from the very beginning. Yes, 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.000 let's start from I want to run through, but just 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:41.760 just so everybody gets hooked real quick. I want to 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.039 play quickly all six of your number ones in a 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.160 very quick montage, and then I want to break down 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.160 your whole life and make you cry. It's really all right, 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.120 Natalie Hanby's here. Uh. Number ones include Miranda White liar, 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.680 your fingers still pops? You still like that one? Huh? 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.800 I love it still. That's cool. It's because some artists 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.560 will be like, I'm so tired of it. You know, yes, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.000 but I saw your finger pop immediately. That's so cool 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.079 when someone still loves it after that long. But I 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:16.760 haven't heard in a while. I was like, this sounds 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.840 pretty damn good. How about this one downtown lady A 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:25.040 I don't know why, take me down town anywhere? Also 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:34.600 a little big town Pontoon, catch Tornado, a little big 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:44.520 town Miranda Automatic. By the way, you won the a 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.360 c M, nominated for CMA, not only for a Grammy 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.160 have songer that you're on this one right right? That's 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.560 all that right? Yes, okay, that's back. I'm trying to 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.480 a c M, and then nominated for Graham It one 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.040 for a c M. Yeah, and then justin Moore, you 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:05.280 look like I need a drink. Look black And that's 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.560 just the surface, just wonderybody know what kind of powerhouse? 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.240 That's why I'm intimidated quite frankly, oh my goodness, not 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.799 at all like I feel like you and I could 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.840 be completely wrong on this, but because you know how 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.840 you see people through your eyes like I, I look 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.680 at other people through my experiences and judge them based 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.480 on that, right, and since I am at times a 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.360 very vulnerable creator, I look at someone like you and go, man, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.800 what what's hurt to do? All of that and to 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.800 see your catalog it's kind of crazy. You know what, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.000 I don't really know, I, um, you know what I've 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.840 been writing. I've literally got my first publition do when 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.440 I was nineteen, and um I started with Barbara Overson 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.920 still working music group, which there's a funny story story there. 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.000 Literally I thought for years that Roy Overson was blind, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.560 and I was like, because he had the glasses. Barbara, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.360 I was like, Barbara, tell me when it was you know, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.720 what's it like living with someone who's blind, Like what 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:07.920 kind of challenges did Roy have? And she was like, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.520 not to leave he was not blind because she's German 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.160 or whatever. But I, you know, I've just been writing 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.680 songs for so long. I never thought, honestly, I would 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.520 be doing country music because, um, well, first of all, 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.720 my whole family is in the music business. My dad 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.560 is an amazing guitar player. And I'm not saying that 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.800 because of my family. Um he's he's actually won a 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.200 Grammy and he's literally played on all these Christian records 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.359 and also a lot of pop records back in the 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.320 nineties when this was like the heyday for it. Like 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.480 what pop records did your dad play on? In the nineties. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.320 He played on Brian McKnight's record. He's played with Michael McDonald. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:53.280 He just played on I don't know which record. Well 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.560 I am too, and I should know this and I don't. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.560 But that's but he was one of those musicians. He 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.880 just played on just of records, you know. And he 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.159 also wrote songs um for Amy Grant like Amy Grant 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.560 is like our family. My mom's worked with her for 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.840 over thirty years as her personal assistant, and my dad, Um, 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.880 he wrote on a few he played on her records 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.200 and he but he wrote some songs on like baby 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:23.760 Baby and yeah no he didn't right baby on the 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.080 record Bay. Yeah. Actually I think it's called heart Emotion. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.159 See I'm getting all these wrong. But m Yeah, he 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.560 was an amazing business And my uncle Ron, who was 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:36.920 an amazing singer. He was in this band called Buffalo 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.440 Club and they had like a top ten in country 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.520 music and like ninety six. And you didn't think you 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.240 even though you were You're from Nashville. No, I know. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.440 Um I was born here, that I was raised here 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.159 with my parents. Moved he when I was two. But 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.880 um no, I wanted to do rocky music. I wanted 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.680 to do like Cheryl Crowe, like kind of like Alana Smar. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:01.720 All that kind of stuff was on the radio. A 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.120 little fair was huge whenever I was trying to get 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.120 a record deal, and I kind of wanted to. I 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.960 loved the more roots rock, like Tom Petty kind of stuff, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.719 and I tried to get a record deal for years 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.000 on that. But you know what, radio changed so quickly 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.960 in those years. It was like it went from like 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.960 first of all melismas singing, from like Mariah Carey to 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.720 Whitney Houston to like then it went to like Nirvana 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.880 and all the grunge rock, and then it was the 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.760 dawning of the Britney Spears era. And throughout all this 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.240 whole process, I was just trying to find my own sound, 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.160 my own way. And um, I almost got a huge 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.520 record deal with Columbia Records. I think it was which 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.640 or somewhere around there. I'm pretty sure if I if 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.080 I looked through this contract, I probably still would be 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:55.200 signed there and they probably owned everything that I have literally, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.160 But anyways, it's what happened with that leventh hour. No, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.520 we're not signed anyone, It just it didn't work out. 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:03.839 And you know who was going to do my record. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.159 J Joyce really and so that was you know, J 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.920 Joyce playing wall Fly. I mean that J. Joyce was 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.080 doing a lot of Oh he did Patty Griffin Flaming Red, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.760 which I was a huge fan of, and he Macy 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.520 Gray's record and I am Shelby Lenney had a song 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.360 in there. And now he's here and he's like the 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.200 biggest producer in country. He totally is. It's it's really crazy. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.200 And you're talking about Crow, one of my all time favorites, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.000 like that Music Club album and Change My Life Me too, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.480 Me too. I remember listening to it on Western at 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.920 Tower Records, and I think it was like ninety four 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:43.080 and I was like, holy shit, I love this Sorry 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.800 about and um, I was like I love this record. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.120 And the reason why I was because I so related 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.000 to her voice because I have what I call party 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.960 girl voice. I'm always a little hoarse, and I just 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.960 had a deeper rasp your voice, and I don't know, 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.160 I just loved your singing, you know. And I love 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.320 the record. And I was looking at who wrote the 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.520 songs and who played on it, and Bill Patrell was 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.080 amazing and all those guys were Dave Barrewald, who played 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.960 on it. But um, so she was like she was 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.200 my she's my favorite too. She's literally my idol. And 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.360 and I'm assuming you've got to know her and as 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.680 much as I loved her music, like just as a person, 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.360 just more. And I don't like to meet people that 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.160 I really love because you can't you'll be let down. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.679 I'm the same way. I don't want to meet my heroes. No, 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.120 they say, don't meet your heroes, But I'm telling you, 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.400 I'm glad I met mine. I love her to pieces 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.960 and even on a personal level with her with with 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.800 Cheryl and and stuff that I haven't talked about on 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:47.520 the air, but one of my best friends and the 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.559 one on the show, has been adopting and Cheryl was huge, 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.480 like instrumental off the year, no radio anything. Has just 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.640 been such a great like she's so generous with her time, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:04.720 with telling other influential people. Absolutely and and um you know, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.760 it's funny because I'm like, I feel like she doesn't 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:11.200 know she's Cheryl Crow, which kind of makes me laugh. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.520 But I'm also I'm so glad I met her later 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.200 on in life. You know, I think if I would 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.640 have been young and I met her, I would have 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.439 just been fan girling her. Still, I have a picture 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.040 of us hugging in it. I keep it hidden, but 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:24.600 it's like the first time I got to hug Chill 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.200 Crow like. I loved her too well. And if she 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.760 text me, I literally have sort of like texting right now. 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.160 That's funny. Cool. So when you started and you were 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.640 going to put out a record, as you know, nineteen, 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.480 how old you were with Columbia, I was very was 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.080 very attractive and very skinny, and I was absolutely gorgeous, 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:48.600 and I was going to put on this amazing record. 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.600 I'm just kidding, sorry as all nineteen Seriously, what did 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.880 you think you sounded like? Then? Was it the jagged 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:59.120 Little Pill Atlantis was? Yes, it was probably actually was 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.760 across Tree atlant Us and Cheryl I would think it 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.719 was very um, you know, I part of the term. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.679 It was very balls to the walls, like I loved 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.560 that kind of music, just rock music, you know, with 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:16.520 like kind of rolling stones, you know, that sort of thing. Um, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.160 it was interesting. And I wrote actually with Tommy Lean 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.000 James on a lot of these songs, which here's a 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.160 roundabout circle. Then I got a roommate, her name was 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.040 Cindy Thompson and I introduced her to her and Tommy 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.400 and and they've basically they've made a record together. They 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.440 want all these awards. Um And Cindy was a great 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.040 country music artist, but I wanted to do rock like 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.760 full on and I loved bands like Semi Sonic um 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.800 all for those who don't know Semi Sonic for example, 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:50.840 close in Time every Night and then now Dan Wilson 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:56.600 is Mr. Songwriter extraordinaire wrote um, someone like You by 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:00.560 Adele you know, and so that's been pretty full circle 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.480 as well. But it's crazy, it's crazy. And how much 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.719 that sound now? Is this sound now? How some then? 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.360 Is this sound now? Like if you took Tuesday Night 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.240 Music Club and you just took it and said, hey, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.880 here's this new record, yes, check it out. I'll be like, Okay, 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:16.280 I gotta play all this on the year today and 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.000 it sounds fresh and new on the country on country radio. Well, 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.160 and you know who else I love back then is Beck? 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.800 I still love Back. I think he makes amazing and 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:29.760 changes constantly, constantly like every time Beck, because I'm a 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.600 huge Back fan too. Every time Beck changes. And again, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.760 I wasn't alive when Bob Dylan went like, but I 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.520 always think when he went from back to back to back, 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.520 there's like every time, it's like that Bob Dylan thing 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.800 where it like what the is happen? Like, Oh this 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.080 is awesome? Yeah, And it might take you a year 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.960 to catch on to what he was doing, but he's 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:53.040 he's brilliant and I always loved his writing styles too, 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:57.240 just like the quirky. One of my favorite is uh 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.679 done some Good Old Boy on ohd A. I played 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.640 that totally album backward and forward from like you know, 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.560 two turntables on a microphone, like right, I mean, I 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.280 mean it's classics. You Devil's hair cut all like it's 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.280 got a devil's hair. I just play that on alternative radio. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.040 I will play that all the time. I haven't thought 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.800 about that song forever. Wow, So that was you then? Yes, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.199 Yeah it was. We were basically the same person then too. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.800 I think I think we were. I'm telling you, dude, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.240 we might be cousins or something. And we're both from 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.640 the South, so we very well could be U from Arkansas, Okay, 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.559 so we could have We do probably might have family 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.240 a walnut Red Arkansas. So and when you're in Arkansas, 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.679 you know, every town in Arkansas because because it's just Arkansas. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.839 So you try and you you don't sign, and so 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.199 you started writing songs. Did you just want to be 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.400 a writer then, or was it like, Okay, that didn't work, 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.160 I'm not going to pursue the artist part of it. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.680 You know what I was. I was devastated. I was 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.560 very disappointed, and um, you know, I didn't know what. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.120 But for some reason, I'm like a tome X. I 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.640 take a licking and keep on chicken. But um, I 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.320 got knocked down from it. But I I basically I 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.079 had a publishing deal, and then I met my husband 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.320 and we became really good friends, and then literally got 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.040 engaged and we got married and we were like, let's 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.480 move out to l A. Because I grew up here 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.760 in Nashville, and I loved Nashville, but I also hated it. 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.440 I was like George Bailey in Bedford Falls, like this 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.720 was my Bedford Falls. I wanted to leave here. I 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.240 was like, I'm gonna go places. I'm doing this with 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.920 my life, damn it. I'm gonna have this huge record 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:39.960 deal and I gonna be singing on all kinds of stuff. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.160 And it just never It just I always hit a 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.120 wall and never worked out for me. And so my 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.200 husband I we got married and literally about a month later, 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.040 who he is a producer as well, but a month 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.760 later we we came high talent. No, we moved out 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.600 to l A. Lived out there for a few months 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.839 and man, just like a month's Yeah, we didn't stay 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.720 very long. We came high telling it back home because 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.160 l A is so hard to live and and especially 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.880 if you don't have a lot of money, it's expensive. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.360 The very expensive people are very affected. Yes, out there too. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.320 That's why it's hard for me growing up in the South. Yeah, 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.840 and where people are people, Yeah, it's it's like you're 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.280 walking into a plastic well. You just feel like after 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.400 all the people out that I've really loved from out 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.400 there were either from l A or they were from 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.040 the Midwest. But it was so funny because it was 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.960 like I found myself either try It's like you either 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.440 become l A or you get eaten up by l A. 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.240 You know. And when I go somewhere, I found myself going, 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.560 who's this and what are they doing? How can they 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.560 help me? And I hate that more than anything. Do 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:49.520 you feel like that because I do a little bit 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.040 now too. But don't you feel like that now a 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.760 bit too because you're at the level you are, or 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.960 don't you kind of wonder why people because no nobody 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.000 wants my friend, Like really, if I don't have a job, 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.960 cool job, nobody want my friend. I don't think you 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.240 might wouldn't be my friend either. Maybe they think I 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.000 was funny or something. But I don't know, No, I 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.040 don't know. There is a little bit of that. I think, 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.720 you know, it just kind of comes to territory. But 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:17.560 it's also um a great way to set an example. 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.120 I guess you know what I mean. So, but I 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.880 definitely when you're out in l A. When I was 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.520 out there at the time, I definitely felt like I 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.760 just didn't like the person I was. And so we 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:32.400 came home a few months for a few months. Yes 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:34.880 we did, Yes we did, and we started in nice area, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:36.600 but it was like we didn't have any money. It 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.240 was just not fun. So but on my last day there, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.760 I met with a publisher out there and with Sony Publishing, 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.200 and I had a great meeting. And so I came 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.440 home and I told her I was moving back. So 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.480 her name was Kathleen Carey and she's awesome. Came home, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.800 got a job at Comcast because we needed health insurance. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.160 Worked there for like two to three years. In the meantime, 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:04.440 my husband gets this job to produce co produce with 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.920 Frank Lindell Um this girl Miranda Lambert who was third 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.400 runner up on National Star New Artists from TV basically 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.960 artists from TV, and also my ad. That was another 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.160 thing that was changing the formats as well as TV. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.240 You know, from American Idol to I mean everything you 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.080 can imagine all the TV shows. So anyways, you almost 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:27.680 had to be on a TV show during that time 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.840 to get a record deal. I mean that's almost like 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.560 what they were looking for. So he started working with 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.480 Miranda and then they started all having an I mean 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:42.160 literally Mike used to come home and play all these records. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:47.160 I mean he played, produced, um engineered, mixed all like 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.520 the first three records, and I just heard her music 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.960 through the house all the time, and I would sing harmony. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.440 I sing harmony on all her records and stuff. But 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.720 in the meantime, I'm still working at Comcast, and then 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.440 I also then I also got a publishing deal with 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.760 Sony in l A once it's like my last bid 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.600 to try to be an artist. So I went out. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:10.280 I didn't go out to l A, but I was 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:14.280 just writing for this project and they once again, I 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.119 was meeting with labels, I mean literally at someone told me. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.000 They were like, well, she's kind of old to have 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.320 a deal right now, and which is all there is 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.560 to me, I mean, which it makes it just makes 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.479 for a great story now, but at the time I 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.399 was pissed. I was like, I'm not old. But um, anyways, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.640 none of that worked out. But Mike was doing so 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.280 well and he was um doing all this stuff with 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.000 her and then David neil Elien band. But he finally 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.920 was like, hey, you should write with my wife. I mean, 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:44.480 and she had met me because I would saying with 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.280 on her records and stuff, and I'm saying with her 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.800 on a couple of things too, and she was like, Gnalie, 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.359 I want to write with you on this next record, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:56.880 and I was like, you call me. I don't. I'm like, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.920 I'm available, you just tell me when you have time. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:06.000 So she ended up calling me and finally and literally 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.520 we wrote eight songs in two days. And it's because 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.960 I mean I literally had all these ideas I've just 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.360 been saving for and it was White Liar, only prettier. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:16.879 Let's talk about that. Let's let me stop your for 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.200 a second. Just for those at home, you wrote eight 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.560 songs in two days. Now, most writing sessions people put to, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.040 you know, four to five hours aside and go, we're 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.320 gonna write, and then you come up with a song 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.360 and you get and hopefully you demo it and it's 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.359 a thing. Yeah, it is. And and sometimes that friends 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.000 who double rights, no right, and that's a lot Like 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.520 you do a double right with two songs. You're exhausted. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.240 You did eight songs and two days. Yes, you know what. 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.560 We're in a At the time, she lived in Texas 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:48.560 and I only had her for a couple of days, 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.680 and I was like, I'm like, I'm gonna drink coffee 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.280 and I'm gonna write my brains out. I don't care. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.400 I'm like, I just wanted to get. But the thing 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.760 about I liked about it was I really love the songs. 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.600 I had been working on the title White Liar for 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.000 a while and I was trying to make it as dark, 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:12.440 mysterious thing, and it was just Yeah, she literally came 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.560 up with that chorus like that, like just so easy. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.960 So you have the title, but you don't have it yet. 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:21.560 You have the title, so how do you how do 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.520 you say? Hey? I wanted a song called White Liar, 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.159 Like what do you say? Well? I was like, I 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.000 have this idea, and I was like, I said, I've 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:30.359 just been trying to come up with something and I 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.919 haven't come up with anything yet for it, Like for 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.399 Only Prettier, I had it very mapped out. Um, I 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.840 had basically mostly the verse and the chorus mostly written. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.760 But with a White Liar. I was like, I didn't 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:44.560 know where to go with it, and she goes, well, 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.280 I don't know, Like what about like hey, I liar? 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.560 Juth comes out a little at a time and I 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.399 was like that like that literally and I was like, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.439 oh my gosh, yes, And I was like we we 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.439 wrote it in thirty minutes. Would that be the moment 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.399 that you went Okay, she's really special? Yeah, I would 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.679 say that would be. But I'll tell you what. On 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.040 her first record, she wrote love is Looking for You 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.960 Now by herself and she also wrote care Sing by 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.000 herself too, but I love is looking for You Now 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.800 is like what an amazing song that was if anybody 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.679 could ever go back and listen to that, they need to. 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.080 It was so and she wrote it when she was sixteen, 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.480 and I was just like, damn, this girl is really good, 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.960 Like she's I don't know, I really have always known 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.439 that Mirando is a great writer. Would that be the 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:40.240 first big check that you got with White Liar? Oh yeah, yes, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.399 the first mailbox money. We were like, holy crap, like 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.480 I can actually not work at Comcast. Absolutely, And honestly, 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:50.960 it's probably the song that's maybe the most money because 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.919 usually your first hits are the ones that keep generating 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:57.200 because they that's what they always get back and play 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.320 over and over and over again for years. So if 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.120 you can have a first hit with an artist, that's 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.160 a really great thing. And the great thing is it's 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.119 her first hit as well, her first number one, you know, Kerosene. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.200 I totally thought Kerosene or gunpowtern Lead all those should 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.480 have been number one, but they just weren't at the time, 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.080 um for whatever reason. But that was her first number 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.040