WEBVTT - The Monstrefact: DC Comics' Swamp Thing

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, my name is Robert Lamman. This is the Monster Fact,

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<v Speaker 2>a short form series from Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

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<v Speaker 2>focusing in non mythical creatures, ideas, and monsters in time.

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<v Speaker 2>As we round out our look at some different monsters

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<v Speaker 2>from DC comics, I wanted to talk about one of

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<v Speaker 2>my longtime favorites, the one and only swamp Thing. Swamp

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<v Speaker 2>Thing was the creation of writer Lynn Wine and artist

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<v Speaker 2>Bernie Wrightson, debuting in the House of Secrets horror comic

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<v Speaker 2>back in nineteen seventy one. Since that time, swamp Thing

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<v Speaker 2>has appeared in two live action eighties films, two live

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<v Speaker 2>action TV series, and numerous animation and video game projects,

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<v Speaker 2>But among comic fans there's nothing to compare to Alan

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<v Speaker 2>Moore's run with the character during the nineteen eighties. Swamp

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<v Speaker 2>Thing's original origin story was not all but different from

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<v Speaker 2>other lab accidents spawned the monsters. Scientist ALC Holland his

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<v Speaker 2>experimental formula and a lab explosion in the Bayou transforms

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<v Speaker 2>man into plant based monster, who in turn battles various

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<v Speaker 2>other monsters, often in the form of doctor Anton R.

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<v Speaker 2>Kane's Unmen, plus many others. In Moore's run with the character, however,

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<v Speaker 2>he subverted this trope, invoking biochemical memory experiments about plenarian worms.

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<v Speaker 2>We discussed these in our episode Devourer of Memories. His

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<v Speaker 2>take is that Alic Holland does not survive the explosion

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<v Speaker 2>in the swamp. He is not a man who becomes

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<v Speaker 2>a plant like monster, but plant life of the swamp

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<v Speaker 2>that generates a body and a sense of self in

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<v Speaker 2>the likeness of the dead man it consumes in and

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<v Speaker 2>this more stripped swamp Thing of any direct connection to

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<v Speaker 2>his human identity and opens the door for a deeper

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<v Speaker 2>connection to the green and the Parliament of trees, essentially

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<v Speaker 2>recreating the character as a plant elemental, a warrior of Gaia,

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<v Speaker 2>and overall super lora ax if you will. If you

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<v Speaker 2>haven't read the Saga of the Swamp Thing, I highly

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<v Speaker 2>highly recommend it. Virtually nothing can touch it now. Long

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<v Speaker 2>time listeners to Stuff to Blow your mind and general

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<v Speaker 2>philosophy junkies might remember a similar creature. No, not Marvel's

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<v Speaker 2>man Thing, though he's awesome as well, but philosopher Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Davidson's swamp Man thought experiment We've talked about this on

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<v Speaker 2>the show as well, back in Our Thought Experiment's episode.

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<v Speaker 2>It basically goes as follows. If a lightning strike in

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<v Speaker 2>the swamp were to destroy Davidson's body and transform an

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<v Speaker 2>adjacent dead tree into an exact living replica of Davidson

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<v Speaker 2>without reusing any of the previous Davidson molecules, then what

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<v Speaker 2>do we have? This tree double or swampman. It behaves

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<v Speaker 2>just like the previous Davidson and seems to know what

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<v Speaker 2>he knew, But does it really know anything? In this

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<v Speaker 2>Swampman is a rumination on thought and meaning in knowing

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<v Speaker 2>one's mind. Davidson writes the following quote, My replica can't

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<v Speaker 2>recognize my friends. It can't recognize anything since it never

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<v Speaker 2>cognized anything in the first place. It can't know my

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<v Speaker 2>friend's names, though of course it seems to. It can't

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<v Speaker 2>remember my house. It can't mean what I do by

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<v Speaker 2>the word house, for example, since the sound house it

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<v Speaker 2>makes was not learned in a context that would give

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<v Speaker 2>it the right meaning, or any meaning at all. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't see how my replica can be said to

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<v Speaker 2>mean anything by the sounds it makes, nor to have

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<v Speaker 2>any thoughts unquote. Now, it's worth noting that Davidson, who

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<v Speaker 2>died in two thousand and three, published this idea on

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<v Speaker 2>Swampmn a few years after Moore recast The Origin of

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<v Speaker 2>swamp Thing, and as far as I can tell, no

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<v Speaker 2>one is entirely certain on how and to what extent

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<v Speaker 2>the two are connected. Authors Chris Galliver and Nathaniel Goldberg

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<v Speaker 2>explored the connection or possible connection in the twenty nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>book Superhero Thought Experiments, Comic Book Philosophy and contend Quote.

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<v Speaker 2>While there's no evidence that either Moore or Davidson read

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<v Speaker 2>each other, Moore's series appears to be philosophically influenced and

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<v Speaker 2>Davidson's Thought Experiment appears to be pop culturally influenced. So

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps it's just the case of two men on different

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<v Speaker 2>tracks thinking deep thoughts about swamp and the self.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Gavilie and Goldberg also stressed that there are distinct differences

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<v Speaker 2>in their treatments. Quote. When it comes to meaning or semantics,

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<v Speaker 2>swamp Man is a blank slate, while more swamp Thing

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<v Speaker 2>initially mistakes itself for Alec holland only later to realize

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<v Speaker 2>that it isn't Alec Holland. Swamp Man never mistakes itself

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<v Speaker 2>for Donald Davidson. It only appears to do so. If

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<v Speaker 2>Davidson is right, swamp Man thinks no thoughts. It can't

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<v Speaker 2>think it's Davidson because it can't think at all. Hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>So ponder on all of that, and by all means,

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<v Speaker 2>pick up a copy of Superhero Thought Experiments if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to deeper dive on this topic. It's really quite

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<v Speaker 2>an excellent book. Comic fans, I will leave you with this.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's a question for you. Has swamp Thing ever actually

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<v Speaker 2>met Davidson's swamp Man in the pages of a comic book.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems like, in general, any kind of matchup or

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<v Speaker 2>encounter that one could possibly imagine has occurred or no

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<v Speaker 2>doubt will occur. I can't help but wonder how this

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<v Speaker 2>would go down. What would swamp Thing think about the

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<v Speaker 2>encounter and what would swamp Man seem to think about

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<v Speaker 2>it but actually not think at all. Tune in for

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<v Speaker 2>additional episodes of The Monster Fact or The Artifact each week.

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<v Speaker 2>As always, you can email us at contact at Stuff

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<v Speaker 2>to Blow your Mind dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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