Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Robert Lamman. This is the Monster Fact,
Speaker 2: a short form series from Stuff to Blow Your Mind,
Speaker 2: focusing in non mythical creatures, ideas, and monsters in time.
Speaker 2: As we round out our look at some different monsters
Speaker 2: from DC comics, I wanted to talk about one of
Speaker 2: my longtime favorites, the one and only swamp Thing. Swamp
Speaker 2: Thing was the creation of writer Lynn Wine and artist
Speaker 2: Bernie Wrightson, debuting in the House of Secrets horror comic
Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy one. Since that time, swamp Thing
Speaker 2: has appeared in two live action eighties films, two live
Speaker 2: action TV series, and numerous animation and video game projects,
Speaker 2: But among comic fans there's nothing to compare to Alan
Speaker 2: Moore's run with the character during the nineteen eighties. Swamp
Speaker 2: Thing's original origin story was not all but different from
Speaker 2: other lab accidents spawned the monsters. Scientist ALC Holland his
Speaker 2: experimental formula and a lab explosion in the Bayou transforms
Speaker 2: man into plant based monster, who in turn battles various
Speaker 2: other monsters, often in the form of doctor Anton R.
Speaker 2: Kane's Unmen, plus many others. In Moore's run with the character, however,
Speaker 2: he subverted this trope, invoking biochemical memory experiments about plenarian worms.
Speaker 2: We discussed these in our episode Devourer of Memories. His
Speaker 2: take is that Alic Holland does not survive the explosion
Speaker 2: in the swamp. He is not a man who becomes
Speaker 2: a plant like monster, but plant life of the swamp
Speaker 2: that generates a body and a sense of self in
Speaker 2: the likeness of the dead man it consumes in and
Speaker 2: this more stripped swamp Thing of any direct connection to
Speaker 2: his human identity and opens the door for a deeper
Speaker 2: connection to the green and the Parliament of trees, essentially
Speaker 2: recreating the character as a plant elemental, a warrior of Gaia,
Speaker 2: and overall super lora ax if you will. If you
Speaker 2: haven't read the Saga of the Swamp Thing, I highly
Speaker 2: highly recommend it. Virtually nothing can touch it now. Long
Speaker 2: time listeners to Stuff to Blow your mind and general
Speaker 2: philosophy junkies might remember a similar creature. No, not Marvel's
Speaker 2: man Thing, though he's awesome as well, but philosopher Donald
Speaker 2: Davidson's swamp Man thought experiment We've talked about this on
Speaker 2: the show as well, back in Our Thought Experiment's episode.
Speaker 2: It basically goes as follows. If a lightning strike in
Speaker 2: the swamp were to destroy Davidson's body and transform an
Speaker 2: adjacent dead tree into an exact living replica of Davidson
Speaker 2: without reusing any of the previous Davidson molecules, then what
Speaker 2: do we have? This tree double or swampman. It behaves
Speaker 2: just like the previous Davidson and seems to know what
Speaker 2: he knew, But does it really know anything? In this
Speaker 2: Swampman is a rumination on thought and meaning in knowing
Speaker 2: one's mind. Davidson writes the following quote, My replica can't
Speaker 2: recognize my friends. It can't recognize anything since it never
Speaker 2: cognized anything in the first place. It can't know my
Speaker 2: friend's names, though of course it seems to. It can't
Speaker 2: remember my house. It can't mean what I do by
Speaker 2: the word house, for example, since the sound house it
Speaker 2: makes was not learned in a context that would give
Speaker 2: it the right meaning, or any meaning at all. Indeed,
Speaker 2: I don't see how my replica can be said to
Speaker 2: mean anything by the sounds it makes, nor to have
Speaker 2: any thoughts unquote. Now, it's worth noting that Davidson, who
Speaker 2: died in two thousand and three, published this idea on
Speaker 2: Swampmn a few years after Moore recast The Origin of
Speaker 2: swamp Thing, and as far as I can tell, no
Speaker 2: one is entirely certain on how and to what extent
Speaker 2: the two are connected. Authors Chris Galliver and Nathaniel Goldberg
Speaker 2: explored the connection or possible connection in the twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: book Superhero Thought Experiments, Comic Book Philosophy and contend Quote.
Speaker 2: While there's no evidence that either Moore or Davidson read
Speaker 2: each other, Moore's series appears to be philosophically influenced and
Speaker 2: Davidson's Thought Experiment appears to be pop culturally influenced. So
Speaker 2: perhaps it's just the case of two men on different
Speaker 2: tracks thinking deep thoughts about swamp and the self.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Gavilie and Goldberg also stressed that there are distinct differences
Speaker 2: in their treatments. Quote. When it comes to meaning or semantics,
Speaker 2: swamp Man is a blank slate, while more swamp Thing
Speaker 2: initially mistakes itself for Alec holland only later to realize
Speaker 2: that it isn't Alec Holland. Swamp Man never mistakes itself
Speaker 2: for Donald Davidson. It only appears to do so. If
Speaker 2: Davidson is right, swamp Man thinks no thoughts. It can't
Speaker 2: think it's Davidson because it can't think at all. Hmm.
Speaker 2: So ponder on all of that, and by all means,
Speaker 2: pick up a copy of Superhero Thought Experiments if you
Speaker 2: want to deeper dive on this topic. It's really quite
Speaker 2: an excellent book. Comic fans, I will leave you with this.
Speaker 2: Here's a question for you. Has swamp Thing ever actually
Speaker 2: met Davidson's swamp Man in the pages of a comic book.
Speaker 2: It seems like, in general, any kind of matchup or
Speaker 2: encounter that one could possibly imagine has occurred or no
Speaker 2: doubt will occur. I can't help but wonder how this
Speaker 2: would go down. What would swamp Thing think about the
Speaker 2: encounter and what would swamp Man seem to think about
Speaker 2: it but actually not think at all. Tune in for
Speaker 2: additional episodes of The Monster Fact or The Artifact each week.
Speaker 2: As always, you can email us at contact at Stuff
Speaker 2: to Blow your Mind dot com.
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